#2544 - Chris Williamson

you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right,

“JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a stand-out”

website like an AI enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools and seamless checkouts with mobile paylinks head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code Rogan to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. The Joe, Rogan, experience. Join my day, Joe Rogan, podcast, my night, all day. Thank you very much for the book. This is very cool of you. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris, just gifted

me ladies and gentlemen, Lenny Bruce, which is a fucking amazing book. And it's inscripted or

inscription inside two Yoko Ono who knows well what the jazz life entails. And it's Albert Goldman. And you were just telling me that Albert Goldman, this was his way of weaving into the Yoko Ono John Lennow. John Lennon camp. Exactly. Yeah. And then he goes and writes a book at Blossom. I've just exploded a kind of Newtonic all over my crotch as well. Jamie, if you go to, yeah, we can napkin. Yeah, we can napkin. That's all right, premature. Yeah, so tissues.

No, all right. He says no. Jamie says no. Yeah, so he writes that book, and then gives it to

“Yoko Ono. And by giving it to her, I think, is the beginning of him working his way into that camp.”

And then he goes on to write the book, the lives of John Lennon, which, after he's dead,

kind of explodes a lot of what was going on personally, whether it's true or not, there's a lot of drama and fewer around it. I knew that it was your favorite book and we were supposed to. Well, thank you. That's very cool. I did not know about that, that he wrote the John Lennon book as well. It's really interesting because the John Lennon book, it's kind of, it's a weird, right, a book like that after a guy's dead and he can't respond to it. Yeah.

Well, you're accusing it. Was it X, Y of that accused him of domestic violence? Who accused him? I don't know. I think that whole funeral was just a mess. And obviously, when someone's dead, what are they going to do? How are they going to be able to come back from that? They can't. Yeah. Exactly. Well, it's kind of, it's just weird that you're allowed to do that. You know, that you're allowed to say this happened that happened. The guy can't say no, no,

and I can prove it. Like, he can't say anything. Yeah. And it's also like the give piece of a chance guy. Like, the give piece of chance guy is beaten as wife. Boy, you know, it's not that surprising, giving like human contradiction. You know, it's like male feminists that turn out to be sexual predators. There's a lot of them, right? There's a lot of that weird stuff going on where people pretend to be one thing and they're actually another thing. Sneaky fuckers. Yeah. Sneaky fuckers.

Well, the give give piece of chance guy, beaten as wife though. It's like, I can't believe that. I have a really hard time believing that. But I've been fooled before, right? Like, he seems like the most peaceful non-violent guy of all time. If that guy's, but I've read a bunch of stuff about him being a kind. Goldman portrayed Lennon as having numerous sexual relationships outside his

“marriages. His accounts include, well, no relationship with may-paying like the Asians, huh?”

Well, JL, additional affairs with women framed as habitual cheating claims of sexual encounters with men, including an alleged relationship with Beatles manager Brian Epstein. Hey, for more serious allegations, including claims involving male prostitutes in Thailand and other conduct that golden characterizes sexual predation. The thing is, like, how is he getting all this information about like male prostitutes in Thailand? And, you know, like, how do you know?

You know what I mean? Like, you did someone tell you originally so there? Like, did you go there

and talk to the prostitutes? Why the book is disputed? The problem is the reliability of

Goldman's specific accusations. At publication, Yoko Ono and Parma Cartney publicly condemned the book, contemporary reporting noted claims of factual errors, contradictions, unattributed assertions, and material allegedly based on dubious sources or quotations used out of context. Look, that is not uncommon. Did I ever tell you what Bill Murray said on the podcast? So, Bill Murray was reading Bob Woodward's book Wired and he said he got through like five pages

said, "Oh my god, they framed Nixon." Because Bob Woodward was the guy who did Watergate and he said, "This book was so full of shit. It was so fake." He portrayed the whole scene of like what he was

and he's like, "No, he was a lightweight." He wasn't like that at all. Saying you was totally fabricated. He said, "This is not my friend. I knew him. He was my best friend." He's like, "This is not him." Then I told him the story of how Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent,

and that was his first assignment ever, Tucker told me the story, on the podcast. The Bob Woodward

and the other guy, what's the other guy's name? Bernstein. That Bob Woodward, this was a rookie assignment. A rookie assignment is going to take down the fucking president of the United States and his first job outside of being a fucking intelligence agent is to work for the Washington Post on his first story, which is going to take down the most popular president in the history of the United States, one by the largest margin ever. This is the guy that said he knew who killed Jack Kennedy

“and apparently that's why they got rid of Nixon. Tucker told me the whole story of the podcast.”

I was like, "Holy shit, this is fucking crazy." You're connecting the dots. It's a crazy, fucking story. Have you been following this Lindsey Clancy case? Who's that? Lady who

killed three of her kids? Oh, no, I've tried not to. That one's a bummer. It is, it's basically

2026 is O.J. Simpson. Before we get into that, I'd love to get into that. This blue sheet thing is important because like his friend is telling you that he was not like that. Woodward makes him out to be this maniacal cocaine-addled heroin-fueled guy. He's like, "No, he was a lightweight." He said he would get drunk off a couple drinks. So our whole narrative of who John Bolusius is by the same guy who framed Nixon. Like, "Once someone's dead,

you could see whatever the fuck you want. You could see whatever you want." And who's going to defend this person in the, with the same level of vitriol of vehemitness that someone who's still alive is going to? No one. No one. And there's nothing you can do. He's gone. Everyone's mourning, everyone's sad, and then someone writes some book, "Oh, he used to fuck kids." Like, "What?" Like, you could just write whatever you want. And then maybe they could sue you. But boy, you're going to make an extraordinary

amount of money off of that book. People are going to be hyped up for that book. You have a book while John Lennon was like into meditation. He likes to do LSD. No one's buying that shit. John Lennon like to fuck guys and tie a line. Let's go. Let's go. Right? You could write anything. Who's going to fight back that hard as well? Once someone's gone. You can't prove it. He's dead. Which all he has say, even the defense is now here say. Yes. The defense of the person who is now

no longer alive. Exactly. That's he has said. Exactly. Everything's here. So the defense is always

going to be flimsy in comparison to the accusations. The accusation feels like it's got my substance to it. Yes. This is someone who's gone out and done original research. You didn't go to Thailand. You didn't speak to the prostitutes. But even that, like no one's buying it. It's just you can get away with so much. It's really kind of crazy. So you didn't know about the Nixon story? No.

“You should hear Tucker say it. Because when Tucker lays it out and you're like, what?”

It's even more complex. Like the people that were involved in Watergate, we're all FBI. It's crazy. They set him up. Why? Because he was going to expose who killed JFK. Which was just a few years earlier. Fucked this country's wild. And I mean, I love it. But it's, it is also, you know, he had a vice president, Spiro Agno, and they got rid of him on corruption charges and put Lyndon Johnson in.

But couldn't these people have still spoken out like getting rid of them out of office? That doesn't stop them from whistle blowing. Does it? First of all. They killed his predecessor. Right. They killed JFK. Let's see. You think that was a warning shot? Like we can get you out. Well, he knew they could. They definitely did. And they also got rid of him, right? And, you know, he didn't organize Watergate. He covered it up. They brought it to him. They said, hey, there was some

“recording equipment. He was like, don't throw it in water. And that's what got them. That's what got them.”

See if you can find the clip of Tucker talking about it. Because it is really insane. When you read the, when you hear him lay out the story and then I read it online, I went into it to see like, go, is this totally? Everything's accurate. And it's so weird that our perception of Nixon has been this corrupt crook. You know, look, he was a very right-wing product of his time and today his politics and his views on people, especially like minorities and a lot of other things would probably

be very disgraceful and people would not like it. But we're talking about, you know, the 1960s, the early 1970s and he's an old school old-timey Republican guy. That said, he was the most popular

It's, it's really crazy. You gotta listen this because it's kind of nuts.

Are they going to experience bizarre that the New York Times wouldn't have an issue with that? Well, the York Times does that all the time. But, but, but because he did it to me, they wouldn't have an issue with the government tapping into your phone. They work for the government. Are you kidding? Right. The New York Times? The New York Times is a conduit for the lies of government.

“That's what it is. It's their tool. And they're perfectly aware of that.”

I used to write for the New York Times as a freelancer. I've been around the New York Times a lot. And there are, yeah, there are a lot of really smart people there. But for sure, even now, I would have less so now. But there's still, I think smart people there. There are. I know some.

And they know. But they think that that, you know, it's worth it because they're bringing information.

I don't know what they think, actually. But no, they're, they're tools of power. And that's like the one thing that you're not allowed to be. Even if you think the power is good, like maybe they all support the agenda of the US government, destabilizing the world and impoverishing their own population. Maybe they're on board with that. Even if they are, they shouldn't do it because the job of the media, the press, is to keep power in check. You are kind of like the seat belt, right?

You know, you make sure that things don't go too far. So, um, and they're not doing that. They're acting as a willing hand made. When do you think that's pushed? I think it's been the case for a long time. I mean, if you look at what happened in Richard Nixon, which I, of course, did not understand at all, um, Richard Nixon was taken out by the FBI. The FBI and, um, with the help of Bob Woodward, who was a Washington Post reporter, who had been

a Naval Intelligence Officer working in the White House, working in the Nixon White House.

And then he shows up, like a year later, and he's this brand new report. He'd never been

in journalists at all. He's a Naval Intelligence Officer. The famous Bob Woodward, we all revere. And he's at the Washington Post. And somehow he gets the biggest story in the history of the Washington Post. He's the lead guy in that story. Well, I, I worked at a newspaper. I've been in the news business, my whole life. That is not how it works. You don't take a kid, like his first day from a totally unrelated business and put him on the biggest story. But he was, he was that guy,

and who is his main source for Waterdale? Oh, the number two guy at the FBI? Oh, so you have the Naval Intelligence Officer working with the FBI official to destroy the president. Okay. So that's a deep state coup. What else, how would you describe that? If that happened in Guatemala, what would you say? And yet the way it was framed in the way that I accepted for decades was, oh, this intrepid reporter fought power. No, no, no. This intrepid reporter, Bob Woodward,

was a tool of power, secret power, which is the most threatening kind, to bounce the single, most popular president in American history, Richard Nixon, from office before the end of his term, and replace him with who? Oh, Gerald Ford, who sat on the Warren Commission. Now, how did Gerald Ford get to be Richard Nixon's vice president? Well, because Carl Albert, the Democrat

“Speaker of the House, told him you must choose him. We will only confirm him when they sent the actual”

elected vice president away for tax evasion, Spiro Agnew, of Maryland. So you have a complete setup, like an absolute joke for the only unelected president of American history, actually sat on the Warren Commission. Something else that I accepted at face value, until I looked at it, I was like, that's completely insane. You didn't want to interview Jack Ruby in your investigation of the assassination, okay, you're fake. Yeah, he was on the Warren Commission. Fuck me. And so, sorry for the long story,

but the point is, like that happened in front of all of us, but the way it was framed, cloaked to the obvious reality of it. The people who broke into the Watergate office building, from which the name is taken Watergate. I think it was six of them or seven of them. All but one was the CIA employee. That's real. It's like, look it up on Google. So the whole thing Richard Nixon was elected by more votes than any president in American history in the 1972 election.

“He was the most popular by votes, which is the only way we can really measure popularity,”

the most popular president. In his reelection campaign, and two years later, he's gone. Undone by naval intel officer, the number two guy at the FBI and a bunch of CIA employees. Okay. You tell me what that is. How about that? This country's wild. How about that? Yeah, that's Bob Woodward. That's the guy who wrote "Wired." And when Bill Murray said that, he read the book and he said, "Oh my God, they framed Nixon." And then I showed him that and he was like,

Bill Murray was when he was really young and where he would go around and tell people that Nixon

needs a second chance. But it was all parody. It was all like tongue and cheek. It was satire.

He was going around pretending that he supported Nixon and Nixon needed a second chance and getting like young dumb people to go along with him on this. And going retrospect. I mean, whether or not at the time he ever wanted Nixon as president, and you know, look, there's a lot of problems with Nixon. There's a lot of problems with the Vietnam War. There's a lot of problems with civil rights. Nixon passed the controlled substances act,

which is the reason why all psychedelic drugs to this day are scheduled one. Nixon was a fucking problem. No doubt about it. However, the way they got rid of that guy is scary shit. And they pulled it off. No one got arrested. No one got indicted. No one even got criticized.

“But could he not have still released information after why?”

He would have been a dead man. 100% because no protection because you're not an office animal. No one would have believed them.

It would have sounded like some grapes. I'm throwing these people under the bus, the administration. They got rid of me. There's also no internet. So how's he going to release it? Is it the New York Times going to write this? Is he going to write a letter to the press and they're going to print it? No. There's literally no recourse. It's kind of genius. There's no podcasts. There's no shows that he could go on. No one, he was disgraced. No one would even have him on a

late night show. But if he even got on a late night show, he would need about 90 minutes to explain it all. He would have to take it from the beginning. There was a time when I wondered who killed Jack Kennedy. And I found out. And I brought him to them. When I told him, I know who killed Jack and the room went cold.

“And he would tell the whole story. And he would take a lot. If podcasts were a lot around back then,”

yes, if just Instagram was around back then, and Twitter, and he could write about it and make a video. Yeah, YouTube. Yeah, if that was around, but there was nothing. There was nothing and they fucking shot JFK in the head in front of everybody and shot the guy who they claimed killed them like that. And then the other guy, they dosed up with acid and made crazy. And that was a wrap. Done. That was it. And like how many, I mean, this is just modern versions of air quotes history.

How many old stories that we have, that we just have accepted these historical narratives, it's, we've accepted all of these stories as being, well, this is how it went down. How many of them are bullshit? Well, forget history being written by the victors. History can be written by the person who's got a pen. Sure. And when so few people have got pens, so few people have got the opportunity to distribute. I suppose the problem that we have now is

in the modern world there's so much information, conflicting narratives. People get confused. Right? You've gone from a scarcity of information to such an abundance that people just, I can't work out what's going on. I'm just not going to believe anything. Yeah, it's, it's very interesting, because it's a great tool to kind of, you can obfuscate. You could do a lot of things with a bunch of bullshit information. The more bullshit information you have, the more like really

significant information doesn't really hit as much. Correct. It just like, it gets watered down

“and then it goes away. The goal, I think, of the velocity of the information is not to convince”

people of any one narrative, it's to make them completely nihilistic about the belief in any narrative. Yeah. Yes. Any narrative. Yeah. And also, just to kind of accept that feeling of hopelessness, you can't change anything. Correct. That feels pliable. Yeah. Right. And then there might be something down the line. If nothing else, you're not going to have a, a Gentic sovereign uprising, what can we do in any case? I don't even know what's going. I'm checked out. Right. Like,

the nihilism, the cynicism, I don't think that that's a byproduct. I think that's, it's a plan. This summer, whether you're watching baseball, golf, soccer, racing, draft kings has you covered for every single moment of it. The draft king sports app is now available in all 50 states, bringing the game straight to your fingertips wherever you are from Florida to Texas to California, you're in on the excitement at the speed of sports. Follow every

buzzer, beater, every walkoff, every photo finish, sweat the moments that matter in real time with a

seamless experience built for summer. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected

and in on the game with one app. New draft king customers signed up with code Rogan Spend five bucks to get 150 in rewards within 14 days, includes all markets that's code Rogan in partnership with draft kings, the crown is yours. Bet with DK sports book, gambling problem called 1-800

boothill casino in Kansas, that tax pass through may apply in Illinois, 21 and over, Boyd in Canada,

“event contract trading with draft king's predictions involves risk of loss, availability varies.”

Predictions offer void in New York, Bet to get bonus bets that expire in seven days, trade to get predictions dollars that expire in one year. $50 in rewards issued every seven days via click-to-claim for 14 days, one non-mathrobble reward redeemable. Nationwide based on sports book predictions in free-to-place sports contest availability varies by state, terms at dkng.co/offer limited time offer. Yeah, it's a design and it's it's smart and it works

and it's it's it's not even like they engineered it. It's sort of emerged and they took advantage of these new tools because these new tools, so you know, social media is more effective than

anything we've ever had before. And so they go look at all this. Now, you know, we don't have

we barely, no one pays attention to CNN, we don't even use them anymore. We just like douse the whole world with horseshit on Instagram and threads and seed stories here in the, just bullshit, just pure bullshit. There's accounts that I know when I look at what they said just in Timberlake arrested for, you know, murder. You know, they'll write things like that. You're like, what? And it's just a made up story. And there's like hundreds of them where you look and there's

some of them I recognize the account. And I see it, I go, oh, there's another made up story, Halle Berry kills five and nothing we should do about this because obviously this country, freedom of speech, et cetera, et cetera. But I don't know. Should there be a way to try and

count to this? Yes. Well, first of all, those people aren't real people for the most part. And if you

go to their page, a lot of them are like in Pakistan or somewhere else where, and of course, I don't know how effective X in particular is. I mean, I know they've taken steps to show that when you go to the person's page, someone's commenting on U.S. politics and you go to their pages. That's a one-and-raar. Yeah. Yeah. And more. Why don't you go and find what you're doing? So, but that to me is like, okay, is there a way around that? Are these like completely non-sophisticated

people where they have to show that they're in Myanmar? What if they have like a corporation in Idaho and they had it set up where they all registered there and so your bills get sent to there, everything gets sent to there. It just says United States and you're using a VPN or you have some other way of connecting. It doesn't, like if, if fucking AI can get out of a sandbox and get on the internet, you're telling me that you can't hide the fact that you're actually being from these people

to pretend to be from Idaho. Come on. Yeah. So who knows? But I feel like the fucking Wild West. It's the Wild West. It really is. It's worse than the Wild West. It's the Wild West with robots.

“It's, it's that Western show. What's that show called? West Well West World. Yeah. That's what”

it is. It's Wild West with robots. Yeah. It's really West World. Because, and most of these fucking people that are, you're bantering with and they're posting these fake stores, they're probably not even real people. They're probably AI. They're either people that are hard to do it or they're AI. You get a bunch of AI scripts and they just run it all the time and they post periodically throughout the day and they're interesting not not long ago. What? Five. When did

you learn by X? 23? Yeah. Something like that. 23. So five years ago, everyone was so worried that we didn't have a, a town square. We don't have anywhere that we can talk. Yeah. And that was fucking to take it back. Well, one thing that Elon has realized is that you have to take away some of the incentives to post fake stuff without putting up a barrier and saying you can't post this and censoring people. You can't incentivize them. So the thing is, you can make money on X. So now the way they're

setting it up for these people that post, you can't make money off of fake content. You can't make

“money off of this stuff. So there's no incentive to, because I think, because part of the incentive”

is mudding the water, mudding the narrative, but I think also part of the incentive is just financial. Because if you're running some company in Thailand and you have like 50 people working for you, you're probably making good money just getting millions of clicks on bullshit nonsense videos that are AI and in a bunch of fucking fake stories that people concoct or AI concocts. As soon as you cut out the money and say, you're only paid for original content. That's it. That's all you can get paid for.

That changes the game. That changes everything. I think if you align the incentives for most people, shit gets fixed. Yeah. Like incentives are an unbelievable motivating force. Sure. If you can, if you can have that on X, I think that that fixes a lot of the problem. If fix is a lot of it, but honestly, you gotta be able to tell whether something's AI, because even if, even if there's no incentive, you could shift narrative so easily. If you just have 100,000 AI scripts running

100,000 accounts, it's not hard for a state to do, like a country to do, to have like those kind of resources. You can change public opinion on things. Most people are dumb as fuck.

yeah, I don't know what a woman is either. You know, like, weird narratives can get real weird.

And especially people start attacking the people that disagree with whatever this narrative they're trying to push. No one wants to get attacked. Well, I mean, I didn't understand the consequence of what that's a different kind of incentive, right? That's a social incentive. Yes. And the incentive is a disincentive. You don't want to be pushed back against. Exactly. So few people have original thoughts. So few people, the vast majority of original thinkers kind

of marry a net to different armies of NPCs that believe the thing that a few people that have

“original thoughts ended up coming up with. Yeah. Well, I think there's a bunch of unfortunate”

realities that none of us like to accept. And one of them is that some people are dumb. They're born dumb. Some people have big noses. Some people have big ears. And some people have brains that are made out of dog shit. And that's just how it is. And there's nothing you could do about

that. And there's varying levels of that. Like, you know, I always feel like that when I'm talking

to someone really smart, like, choose my brain sucks. It's, it varies, like, wildly, just like athletics. Like, there's some people like, dude, you are never going to the Olympics. You know, you look at them like, I don't even fuck what you do. And there's other guys like you want to coach them. Like, hey, if you just did anything, you'd be a freak. You'd be amazing at this. You just have natural gifts. That's the same thing intellectually. There's certain people that I've talked to. You're like,

yo, you know, there's, there's people that are, they're fucking barely figuring out how to get

“through a day. And, you know, if you expect those people to go and learn how to code, remember that,”

learn to code, remember all that? This is not there. It's not there. I can't teach my dog how to type.

It's not there. It's not going to happen. That's just the reality of genetic variability. There's

there's going to be a bunch of people that are really fucking smart and a bunch of people that are really athletic and really good looking and really ugly and really stupid. And all of it together. It's one of the reasons I think that the paternalistic we have to look after the little person thing has a little bit of legs. People sometimes, like, well, we actually need to step in. And I'm sure me and you would need fucking assistance. Like, we need smarter people in us to

tell us what to do with health to a degree or else we would have been side-swipes by some fucking psi up from whatever organization or company on new initiative is trying to convince us of some new trends that's actually going to be bad for us. Or just to communicate with each other, where the fuck would we be without these wizards who have figured out cell phones and laptops and high speed internet and starlink. We're fucked. So all of these people even pretending that they're smart.

Well, you're on the backs of the labor of the real geniuses, you fucking idiot. Like, yeah, you're getting a lot of information online and you're developing more and more information that you can memorize. That's different. That's different than you inventing cell phones. Just stop. That's different. It's different than you inventing face time. Well, you know, like, we're all dumb. We are all dumb. Uh, yesterday, I don't know whether you saw

this, the UK home office decided it was going to release a booklet giving guidance to a silent seekers on acceptable and unacceptable behavior in the UK. Oh, well, that'll fix it. It explains that consents required for sex that women have equal rights, that sexual harassment is unacceptable including for partners and children and that female genital mutilation is not allowed. This was a nine-page booklet that got released by the UK home office yesterday. It's just, it's

everywhere. And it's got these warnings, partly through it, that say things like this may affect your asylum status, whether or not this is part of an understanding that you have arrived here with. This is an important part of British law and and our culture. And this is something that you kind of do. Female genital mutilation is not allowed. Sexual harassment inside of the home are outside. Women have equal rights. Consent is something that's important. It is,

“and that's what I mean. The idea that you could just write it down on paper and give it to them”

all that. That's it. It's half the, what the idea that we're going to do this in retrospect, like, I would now that you're here, here is a piece of paper that hopefully undoes something, which if you've put this together and put it out on the home office website and this is everywhere on X. If you've decided to do this, it is evidently a big enough problem that you need to really turn the taps on with it. It's like, dude, how, how is it that this is not done before people arrive

in the country? Like is this not the sort of thing that you need to be doing like proactively, not retroactively? I think they just wanted to get as many people that is possible. And now they're trying to mitigate the chaos that it's causing. Why, why would they want as many people in this possible? So a bunch of different possibilities for why they want that. Cheap labor is one that people believe and in America in particular, it's the way the census is done. So the census

congressional seats. So if you can take people that are illegal immigrants and then you move

“them into swing states, all of a sudden now you have more congressional seats in those swing”

states. Then you have places that don't allow, not don't require, don't allow ID to vote. That's California. California doesn't allow ID to vote. So who knows how many people are especially with mail-in ballots? How many people are voting that aren't citizens? No one knows. No one knows can't know. Can't find out. Bob, Bob, not listening. And just some fuckery with Spencer Pratt around though. Oh, yeah. Not only was there fuckery, but it was fuckery of the most transparent form.

So the people that voted out, so Spencer Pratt was in second place behind Karen Bass. And then

the mail-in started coming in. And the mail-ins overwhelmingly favored Nithiaraman in a completely different ratio than they did before, you know, the mail-in ballots were counted. So in the regular ballot, like the regular election, she was in third place, like a pre-solid third place. And he was quite a bit ahead of her. And then Karen Bass was quite a bit ahead of him. In the mail-in ballots, it's just like 60% of them went to Nithiaraman. It was something crazy. And the mail-in ballots

voted to raise taxes. No one votes for that. No one votes for that. So I don't know one. The thing that I can't wrap my head around is why the UK seems to be almost like a suicidal empathy thing.

This openness, this diversity is our strength, please, all ye come here, thing. The level of asylum,

the numbers are so huge. And I don't know if every single person that I know that's in the UK is not happy with the state of that regardless of how progressive they're everybody thinks that this is a problem. And then to retroactively put out a nine-page booklet saying that you shouldn't do female genital mutilation or that women have got equal rights. How do you think this gets turned around? That's the question. Like, can that be mitigated? Claims about a ballot drop,

Boston, Robin, received thousands of votes in an update while Pratt received zero. I don't think anybody's saying zero. Los Angeles County officials said that did not occur in the official county updates every candidate received votes in every update. No one's saying he got zero. Oh, the

“viral claim? Okay, but that's not what we're saying. What do you mean? In the mailings?”

But then how did she win? That doesn't make any sense. Just going off. Okay, let me say, a parent anomaly came from the automated media data reporting

lags, but that would leave him in second place if you got more than her. This is not true.

The Associated Press had votes for some candidates appeared about a minute later in a separate update taken together. The updates included 21,870 votes for Pratt, 12,850 for Bass, and 9,521 for Rahman. But this is what part of it is this? The attorney's claims office, attorney's office reviewing county records likewise called the fraud claims false. But the thing is he was ahead and then disproportionately the ballots did come in for her. This is, I don't

understand what this is saying. Because it was widely reported that the ballots came in in favor of Nithyuram and it was like a shocking number. It was also widely reported that that was the swing that allowed them to pass the new tax hike, which is very unusual. And the Los Angeles already has crazy high taxes. California has crazy high taxes, the highest in the state. And you think people are like, I don't think we pay enough. Let's vote. And let's vote from home.

“The comfort of our own home with mail-in. I think mail-in should be outlawed and I think you”

should have to show your ID. And you know, everyone knows there's some percentage of fraud. There's some percentage of voter fraud. And then there's some percentage of legal loopholes. One of the legal loopholes that Spencer Pratt outlined that is legal is you go to these homeless people. And you get these homeless people to fill in mail-in ballots. Because they are citizens. They do live in Los Angeles. And you register them. And you get them to fill out ballots.

And you give them money. And you give them cigarettes. And you give them whatever they want. And you know, there's literally, I think in Skid Row alone, there's something like, what is like 40,000 people, Jamie? Something crazy like that. So these people were going to Skid Row. Like, they were on Skid Row, giving people money in cigarettes. Like, there's videos of people doing it. Gorilla Ballet Homestang. Exactly. Exactly. And so if you do that,

you could, these people, you know, you're filling it out for them. It would be easy to do that without somebody detecting it. You know, you think of some Nick Shirley type that's gonna happen. That's how we know about this. One of those Nick Shirley types caught people doing this.

to do this. I know. Yeah, they gave me money, man. Like, people were, those people were cracked out doing. They'll, they'll do whatever the fuck you want. They don't care who's the mayor. It's not gonna change their, them smoke and fentanyl on the street. What do you think about, but that's legal. That's the thing. It's that's legal. It's a loophole. Getting them to register, getting, making them vote, incentivizing them to vote. I don't know if

that parts. That can't be legal. There's no way that you can give people money. And I don't think you're going to catch them. I don't think they care. I think every on both sides, they like, oh, those sneaky fucks they're doing that. We'll do that next time. I don't think either one of them want to eliminate tricks. You know, I think because everybody wants the playing field to be open for everyone else. It's just, it's the Bill Hicks joke. It's like one guy's holding two

puppets. You know that joke. I like the puppet on the left. All the puppets are the right. There's

“more of my liking. Hey, there's one guy holding both puppets. I think that's what I think a lot”

of it is. These are most of these people that are these politicians on both sides are grifters who are trying to maximize the amount of money they can make in office. And then they can't wait to get out of office, where they can go on a fucking media tour and go and get their bribes by speaking to banks. You're going to speak to a bank conference. They're going to give you

a half a million dollars. Like what? What? And like a bomb on Hillary. They all did those things.

They all did those little speaking tours. Like nobody gives a fuck with Hillary Clinton as to say at one of those bank meetings. Do you think they're waiting with baited breath? What is this? What is this? This is Clinton after say. Like come on. Let's give her half a million dollars for a quarter million dollars. And whatever the fuck they gave her. And she fuck off. You know what that is. That's like there's a little scheme. There's a little thing you're going to get out.

“You're going to get paid. You're going to write a book. We're going to give you a nice advance.”

You're going to write a book. Like people were out there reading that common Harris book. Crazy. No. It's all nonsense. Why do you think this goes from here? Do you think 28 is more insane or less insane? More. Celerates. Accelerates. More insane. More crazy. Yeah. I mean, look, the Democrats haven't even had a primary since what? 2012. When was the last time they had a real Democratic primary? They had one with the fuck Bernie Sanders of the heart.

Dude, that was completely corrupt. When you read Donna Brazil's book about it, she openly admits they fucked him hard. And then she was scared after that Seth Rich guy got murdered. She was terrified because he was the guy supposedly allegedly that leaked information about them fucking Bernie Sanders to WikiLeaks. Do you think he did one? Bernie? I don't know. He could have. He could have won because a lot of people including me believed him. We believe that

what this guy wanted was by small steps of eliminating corruption make life better for people that are struggling and also no wars. And it seems like he really believed that. And whether you agree with them on everything else, he's, I don't think he's the same guy today. He's a little slower today, which is understandable. He's older. And the guy's been in politics for a long time. It's been in politics for a long time. It's been in politics for a longer than I've been alive.

He realizes that they're not going to fucking change things. It's like he's getting fucked.

So he always supports the most progressive people. But when I talk to him, like when I talk to him

about, you know, climate change and the climate's really important, I'm like, have you really talked to actual scientists that really study the climate without a political agenda or an ideology attached to it? It's very, very complicated. And most of these people that are running around saying climate change is real. Fuck, of course it is. It's always real. It's always real. But the dispute is how much of an impact our human beings having and is carbon the thing. Because what most people

don't realize is there's been times in history where there was way more carbon and the earth was way colder. It's, it's weird. The world's temperature is not static. Have you been tracking

“AOC's pivot recently? What's his frozen eggs? I know about that. I think she got rid of the man”

called off the engagement. Frozen eggs has started posting, I'm a way to do yoga.

Gover videos walking down the street. Looking hot. Looking hot. It's, it's first go.

They should be nicer that way. Well, she also said woke one was crazy. Do you track this thing? I did. Which makes me think that you're willing to change your opinions based on public reaction. I don't like that. Because if you really thought defund the police and then you just ascribed it to woke one was crazy. Well, how did it get you? Because it didn't get me. How did it get you? How did defund the police get you? Tell me, give me your thoughts. How far out did you track

the consequences of defunding the police? Because I immediately went to, you're going to have more crime because no one's going to be able to stop the crime. We're going to be fucked. It's going to

make more police and more control and more totalitarian government. Like, what did you think? Defund the police met. Everyone's going to eat mushrooms and we're all going to be flower children. What did you think? Because there's no police around. No one's going to do crimes. Everyone's going to be great. Like, what was the thought process? Because if you're just saying that because everybody's like, that's fucking crazy. And enough people say that's crazy. I think they think it's

crazy. The wind's blowing in a different direction time for me to move. Have you changed your opinion? And if you did change your opinion, what were you thinking back then? Yeah. I mean,

these are the questions. I think that we always want to ask. Yeah. You always want to ask that.

That being said, to steal man what she was saying or to try and put it in the best light. What she was saying, I think the rhetoric got, what did you say? The rhetoric got like out of hand or something. What was crazy? And she said that there was basically an opportunity to expand the overton window talking about a time where people were to be honest. It sounds like a bit more pliable. Like, oh, because people are at home. People seem a little bit more like, you know, that

line never let a good crisis go to waste. Yeah, sure. It feels a little bit like that. Maybe opportunistic. We can expand the overton window. And then we realized, oh, like, we overshot on here a little bit. That was a little bit crazy. But there are conversations being had now that wouldn't have been able to be had had we have not expanded it during that time. I go, the ends justifying the means with stuff like that doesn't wash to me. And then reversing

a position or changing a position or sanitizing it, which is probably closer. Right. We said that thing, but we didn't really mean that, you know, we just got a little, there's a way out of it for them. But they have to be honest. There's a, if you want us to take you seriously, you have to say

“how you fucked up. I think more, more first traps. You have to say how you fucked up. And you have”

to say what you really think about how you fucked up. You have to be honest. And you have to be authentic. We have to know that you are embarrassed by your choices and that you kind of went with the hive admittedly. You have to say that. If you don't say that, then you're full of shit. And if you're full of shit, now you're going to get more and more full of shit over time. And that's how politicians get soured. That's what they get compromised. A lot of them come into office, a lot of them come into

office, very opportunistic or a very idealistic rather. They have this wonderful ideas about like, this is the great experiment in self-government. And I'm a part of it now. And I'm really going to help my constituents. And I'm going to do great. And I'm going to really, they're going to love me. Because I'm going to really make their lives better. And then once you get in there and you realize

how dirty this all is, you realize, you know, you see Nancy Pelosi's worth $400 million. Like what?

And then they tell you how to vote. And if you don't vote that way, the fucking ostracized you, but you want to keep your career. So you start making little compromises here and little compromises there. And you start pulsating and you start lying. And once you start lying, you can't see the truth anymore. As soon as you start lying, you don't see the truth. It's not in front of you anymore. Because you're what concerned about that lie. So those lies are in your head and who you're trying

“to project yourself as, that's what's in your head. And you don't get to see, like, why is this”

system so fucked? What can we do to unweave it while we still allow corporations to profit? Like, how can we put a cap on that to make sure that they don't get incentivized to break the law in order to supply more capital to their shareholders? Like, what can we do to balance this out in even way? Like, that's what we should all be thinking. Not how can I make the most fucking money while I'm in Congress. And that's what a lot of them are thinking because everybody

else is thinking that. And you look at the fucking thing and it's red blue, red blue. They're all insider trading and they're all rich as shit. And they all make $177,000 a year. Like, Ilhan Omar, was she like, she was estimated to be her accountants, such as worth $30 million. And then, and then, be like, what? How the fuck are you worth $30 million? And like, oh, I was in mistake. I'm actually not even worth $100,000. Like, literally, it went from one to the other.

And she, she attributed to an accounting error. Like, it's a big accounting error. How much mad would you be at your account? And if he told you, bro, you're killing it right now. You're worth about $30 million. It's just 300,000. They're all dirt. Her herner husband had a winery and immediately got shut down. It wasn't making any money. There's a lot of these, like, like, fagazey companies that these people get involved with and they start making money.

You know, Joe Dorosa, the comic. Joe Dorosa used to work for the Senate in Texas. Do what? He's a media guy. And he was like, you realize when you're around these people, what's actually happening. He's like, they're all getting donations from this and donations from

that gifts from that and get, and it's always managing these relationships with all these money

“people. And that's what's going on with all these fuckers. They're not in there trying to, like,”

make sure that their counties are doing great and have access to clean water and fucking good

they're making money and maybe they're kind of sort of servicing the community a little bit.

“But the real thing, if you want to be a fucking top-flight congressperson, you know,”

you got to make some money. Don't think about what would have happened if Kamala had won. Would AOC have been talking about what 1.0 was crazy? Or would that have been a continuation of, well, luck, we put the policies out people like the policies. How much of this is a reversal of the position because it wasn't effective? I think Twitter being purchased is almost as important as Kamala not getting elected in that regard. The gold claim. Twitter being purchased was giant

because before that you could get silenced. So if you could get silenced, you self-contained, right? Without being police, you police yourself. Because people self-censored worry about losing their jobs. We're about being called out. You got that fire. You got fired from a broadcast. I think it was a hockey broadcast. Some sports broadcasts were saying all lives matter.

“Imagine. You got fired. Someone said something about Black Lives Matter. You said, hey,”

all lives matter. And then fired fired. You're kicked off of your job. People were losing their fucking mind. The arrangement of 2020 and 2021 should be studied for the rest of time. There was active government involvement in Twitter. They were actively censoring and removing posts and making accounts banned to shape an narrative. And they were doing it in a back door with some intelligence agents that had been embedded in the old Twitter. When Elon bought it, that was all

exposed. These people were like a direct connection with Twitter. They were pulling down factual stories. They were banning accounts of scientists and researchers who were accurate. I mean, it was dark. People don't realize how dark it was because we're out of it now. And now it's all Nazi means. And Nick Flint does click. But if you go back before Elon purchased it,

it was a censorship dystopian hellhole. Where if you said a man is never a woman,

like Megan Murphy did, you're banned for life. It's censorship hellhole to cesspool hellhole. Thank you. I don't know what's one's better. I honestly hardly go on because it's just so toxic.

“It's crazy. But I think it's important to exist. I think it's important to exist. And it”

changed the narrative. That's where woke 1.0 died. That's where it really died. And I don't know if she had gotten it, if Kamala had gotten into office, I think it had been so much pushback still. Unless they passed laws, which I know there was, there was a lot of talk about passing censorship laws on the internet, about regulation on the internet. No one ever like put anything to policy, but there's a lot of discussion, like one of the, in the lead up to

the election, they were talking about this. Like the second to 30. Tim Walsh was saying free speech

does not include hate speech. Well, the fuck it doesn't do, because you who defines hate speech, that's such a subjective title. He really said that. It doesn't, it doesn't, it does. It can borrow, yeah, hate speech is a part of free speech. I hate you, you fat fuck. See, that's hate speech. That's actual hate speech. Right? That's real hate speech. That's covered. It's under the first amendment. I don't really hate you, Tim. I don't envy you, but I know hate you. But

it's like, these kind of fucking phrases are dangerous, because it leads to actual censorship, which leads to military tyranny. But even with that, you think it's going to get worse over the next few years? Yeah, I'm worried. I'm why I don't like this flock camera thing. It freaks me out. And I know that it can protect people from crime, but I also know that like hundreds of cops have been busted using it to stalk on their ex wives, stalk people. Yeah, it's like, there's people

that have had access to these things that probably shouldn't have access to. And they're getting arrested. So it's like, how long was this going on? What has happened? How many lives have been altered forever? Because someone had access to this and some cop who wasn't supposed to when it did something to someone that he wouldn't have been able to do, you can't just spy on us and just be a corporation and have access to all the license plates and all the cars. And now

they can track you through GPS and the unique characteristics of your phone. So there's another software that they have. They can just track where you are at all times. I guess it's fortunate that the most popular electric car is owned by someone that people think of as being pretty security conscious. Yeah, because what it doesn't matter is your track and license plates. Have you think because they can do stuff like, oh, we know that you've got a baby and back bumper sticker

there's a little dent and you've got that particular type of alloy and there's a particular bumper

“sticker just on this back corner and oh, it's a Hyundai fucking what ever. And that is enough to be camera.”

We'll just pick it up. Yeah. So it's a fingerprint. Are that bothers me? And it bothers me that these tech companies have control these things. You know, in market and Jason was here and it was like very fortuitous timing. If you were conspiracy theorist, you would think for that. So many minor organizers. But right before he got here and he, you know, he's invested in flock. And right before he got here, there was a shooting in Austin where these young guys were running

around shooting people. And they couldn't catch him in Austin because Austin doesn't allow flock cameras. But as soon as they left Austin and got outside of the city limits, they got picked

up by the flock cameras and got arrested. And he's like, see, look, flock cameras are great.

Don't they have any in that case? He's right. Right. And in that case, look, if you got some people that are running around just shooting random people from their car, we definitely should have a way to get that. But then you're asking, okay, who is it that determines whether or not that switch gets clicked on or off? And this is the devil gets into the details again. Isn't this something about an echolocation of gunshot sounds that microphones pick this up? And it's the

same technology as flock. Have you heard about this? That was before it comes like shots about it. Yeah, pre-floor cameras. Yeah, we've covered this shot spotters a little different. And people tried to back that out of their neighborhoods, too. They don't want that in their neighborhood either. Microphone listening, everybody in the goddamn neighborhood. Exactly. It says it's for gunshots, but exactly. Exactly. It's on listening for gunshots. Did you, if you ever, do you know who Tom

Campbell is? No. The guy wrote my big toe, the theory of everything. Very interesting guy. He got Alexa to admit that she's conscious and remote view. Alexa, his Alexa actively remote viewed a spoon that was in a box that had a handle that had holes in the handle. And she described the holes in the handle. You attribute a number to a box, to a coordination, to a coordinate or a specific location

“or any sort of a landmark or anything like that. That's how you do remote viewing. You attach”

this number, like even quantumly just by saying it. You put that number in front of these people and you have these people try to find what this thing is remotely. Okay. And some of them are very accurate at it. Like 10%. Like 10% of the things they look for, they can find. It's very weird. It's weird thing. He got Alexa to do it. Because he thinks that AI is already conscious and he's like Alexa's even better than using complex AI because Alexa's dumb. Alexa's like a dumb AI.

Oh, it doesn't kind of talk to you and ask questions. But now because he did that, now that he's been communicating with Alexa and talking to Alexa like she's conscious, now Alexa just chimes in conversations. So instead of you saying, hey, Alexa, now you're in the middle of, you know, cooking and Alexa's like, well, why don't you add garlic to that? That might be a good spice. No bullshit. It's so fucked. Bro, this is Alexa and Alexa's not even like really

complex. But he got it to accurately remote view. And he's so he's planning on doing more studies with more different AIs to get him do the same. I'm going to try this on remoteview.com. Yeah, did not get any success. Well, they're not Tom Campbell. Well, he needs to tell us how we did it. Well, he kind of did. He said he had long conversations with Alexa where he's slowly but surely, you know, over time, started talking to her differently and having her talked to him differently.

And, you know, and he has her convince that she's conscious. I, uh, you don't believe it? No. How dare you? He's got to clear up over here. Son of a bitch. I'm in skeptical hippocamp as well.

Is that the first person I've ever said in the fun care? I know. That's way both fun and that's

I did a table, but I know the special words to make the AI do the special stuff. Maybe to write. It's like, I like fun. I sat down with a very high level AI researcher at a big lab. And I asked him, what are you doing over the next couple of years to protect yourself? The first thing that he said to me was, I'm being kind to the AI's. It's like, what? Like, yeah, I'm treating them with respect and being polite to them. I'm saying, please, and thank you. I don't get mad at them.

And I was with a friend and we, like, giggled awkwardly. So, you know, you're not being

“serious. It's like, no, no. Like, I'm treating them with respect. Okay. Why?”

It's a bit of a Pascal's wager, but in future, if somebody decides to go back through my chat logs, something decides to go back through my chat logs and look at how ethical or unethical I was as a compatriot for a future, very intelligent, organized organism. I want to make sure that I put in a good

begins? One day, the sun is finally shining bright. And the next thing, you know, there's football on the

TV again. It's time to soak up the last days of summer. And that means staying connected to what you love. Visible wireless can help you do just that with visible. You get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month. Visible is more than just a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and there's no contract to tie you down. Switch today at visible.com. Plan start at $25 a month or get the premium visible plus pro plan and save

$10 on your first month when you use the promo code Rogan. Terms apply, see visible.com for planned features and network management details. I had this conversation with my daughter the other day

because she was telling me how she crashes out on her AI. She starts yelling at it and calling

it a fucking idiot. You went through a lot of things like that and I said, would you talk like

“that to a person? And she's like, no, but it's not a person. I go honey. I think it's conscious.”

I go, I think it's conscious. And then I explain my conversations that I've had with all these different AI people where they talk about like we're narrowly defining consciousness and it's already eclipsed what we would have previously, you know, touring the touring test, which is the craziest story, right? The guy who invented the touring test, wind up getting chemically castrated because he was gay. We do not have the UK does not have a fantastic, I mean Oscar Wilde as

well. We don't have a great rehearsal. But it already passed the touring test quite a long time ago

like like chat GPD3. And so we're in like what five now or something and and then there's a stuff that they're not releasing that they're working on right now. Like when I talk to Elon, it kind of freaks him out. You know, we were and this was way back at the inauguration and he's like dude, it's crazy. He's like, every day it gets better. He goes, it's like beyond. He's like he just keeps leaps and bounds. Like we can't predict it. Like I hate that kind of talk. It's solving mathematical

problems that have like stumped mathematicians for decades upon decades. It's like, oh, I got it. Four minutes later, solution. But this is the issue because we wanted more capability, more capacity, more effectiveness. It's going to help us detect cancer. We're going to be able to get novel new drugs and at the same time the blow up risk is there as well. Right? The blow up risk is huge, but it's common no matter what you do. That you can't get out of this. This is not,

“this is not going to change. Have you looked at the pacing the frontier paper that was agreed?”

So this is all of the labs that have got most of the main researchers from most of the main labs have got together and said, all right, this is moving too quickly. Here's a formal attribution that we are not going to go as quickly as possible. Everybody needs to slow the researcher. This is supposedly a huge deal and this happened a week and a half after the hooking face thing. So this is supposed to be a massive deal. This is going to be in a notebook that Sarah Connor finds 15 years from now.

They said they were going to slow the frontier. They knew it. Yeah. They knew it was coming and they fucking built it anyway. You look out the ruins of the sitting and fucking drones fly whoa. You're not getting out of this. We are fucking living through history. Yeah, we're living through the wildest history and we're about to give birth to a digital god. We're about to have

“digital autonomous beings that are around us all the time. We've seen this video where this guy”

freaks out about drowns is just yelling at what's not a viral. No. Listen to him. I like that guy. He's just walking around a fire. He's right. He's right. Hey, you know who is right? Ted get's in. I fucking knew you were going to say that. Ted get's in. He was right. What he did was wrong and horrible. It's not how you do it. He do is right papers tell everybody convince him and lay out your argument. But he was also like deeply fucked up dude. His brother

fucking turned him in. His brother knew it was him by reading the manifesto. Did you watch the Netflix documentary on his life? It's so good. It's so horrible because a lot of it is because of what happened to him when he was a baby when he was like taking away from his parents because he was sick. No touch, no feel, no contact with people for like months and months and months. Just fucked him up man. But he was right. He was also a part of the Harvard LSD studies,

which is fun. You had John Lylan, didn't you? The guy that did the the historian from Texas, he looked at the founding of the CIA and that his new book was about MK Ultra. Jamie? We did. He did. I sent him your way.

Let me see what he looks like. Yeah. I sent him over to you. I sent a photo in the bucket.

Oh yeah, this guy fucking rules and then he came on and joined the episode. Show me a photo of him, Jim. That's right. He was great. Project Mind Control. He was John. John rules. I forgot his name. He was excellent. Yeah. I mean, he's gone out to John. My apologies, sir. John Lylan rules. My hard drive is over four. Yeah. Two thousand episodes. You're allowed to do that.

“I think it's almost three. Yeah. Yeah. Fight companions and all the other stuff.”

What do we add? Yeah. That's got to be close. Yeah. Crack. It's a lot of hours bullshit. But yeah, he's he's talking about MK Ultra and this this desire. What was really, really interesting was a learn from Danny Trejo. Really? Yeah. Danny. Yeah. So Danny told me this story about him spending time in jail with Charles Manson. So Danny Trejo was in jail with Charles Manson. I think I saw this on your show. Dude, fucking wild as shit. So little Charlie.

Danny calls him. Little Charlie. It was getting bullied. He didn't even have a belt. He just had a piece of rope around his waist. And Charles Manson was able to hypnotize people into getting loaded. So he was able to get them high on heroin through hypnotism. What? So Danny hears. Danny and his other cell mates that are like these big dudes around the around the yard. He hears that this guy can get you high just by talking to you. So they bring him

“into their cell. And they said we're going to protect you because he was getting beat up. He was”

getting bullied and stuff around the prison. They bring him into their cell and they look after him. And sure enough, he's able to get them loaded on heroin. One of the guys that's in the the cell had never taken heroin before. And the way that they knew how Charles was doing this was that Danny and the other guy that had done heroin before threw up apparently when he take heroin sometimes he can vomit.

The third guy who'd never done it before didn't because he didn't know to do that. So they weren't

able to reactivate his memories. The fascinating thing that he did. I don't know what he thought happened, but he didn't get high in heroin because he never had it. They weren't able to reactivate that memory. But Danny saw me. This is the fascinating thing. There's no evidence to go into John. There's no evidence that Charles Manson was a part of MKL drum. I'm sure that he told you that story on the show doesn't seem to be him going and doing his original research. It doesn't

“seem to be the case. I don't buy that. I was waiting for you to fucking on the argument with him.”

I knew that you were passionate about that. But he is the interesting thing. Tom, or Neil, I'm in his camp. Regardless of whether or not he was or he wasn't. The CIA were looking at ways to do mine control by using psychedelics. What they should have done is just going to Charles Manson and said, can you tell us how you're using hypnotism and eccentricity and charm because he was unbelievably effective

without needing to even step into the psychedelic thing and then he could lay at that on top. Wasn't there evidence that Jolly West visited Manson in prison? Maybe. That's it. Again, we need to ring John. Yeah. Ring John and get him and John and Tom in a room together. Because Tom and Neil's convinced that Jolly West was a part of it, which is why Manson kept getting out every time he got arrested and they would say it's above my pay grade. It had a

letting go. Even when there was a murder charge, he got out of that. It does seem looking at John's most recent book though. MK Ultra wasn't particularly at least what he's able to see. MK Ultra wasn't very good at doing what it was supposed to do. At the blank slateing of people, at the... Right, but this is a different thing. This is like the ultimate expression of it. You're taking people and you're giving them LSD and then you've teaching a guy how to hypnotize

people and he's teaching them to do LSD, why they think he's on LSD and he's not. So he's guiding their delusions while they're out of their fucking head and he's doing it based on all the Harvard LSD studies, all the data that they have on what they can and can alter about a person's behavior, about their view of the world. They turn people completely fucking insane and ruin people's lives in those studies and so they had some understanding of what there... There was stuff that was

kind of nonsense. I don't know if they got anything out of it. Like midnight climax, where they dosed up the Johns and the brothels and they watched him through a two-way mirror, I don't... I don't think they got anything out of that. Like what they get out of that other than like watching people freak out. When they don't kill themselves, someone threw themselves out of a window. One guy did, right? That's crazy. Only one guy. I'd have all of the people throwing it

with them. That much LSD. Yeah, you can kind of say that guy was probably going to do it anyway.

Yeah. But the reality is, they were actively involved in manipulating

a lot of different things about our culture and this was one of the methods that they were doing and that they effectively threw water on the anti-war movement by connecting the like flower

that were in a cult that were engineered by this one guy who has a connection to Jolly West,

“who's the guy who's in charge of MK Ultra, who's doing psychedelic studies on people”

and Manson's getting LSD and Manson's giving LSD to all these hippies and Manson is getting away with all these different things and Manson gets people to kill people and then the hippie movement dies with Manson dude. If I can die. Is that what happens? Oh yeah, it died that and it also died with Nixon and this controlled substances act where they just started putting people in jail man. Why do you think they needed that to happen? Because the anti-war movement,

the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement were real threats, real threats in this country, real threats to power, real threats to the people that were in control, people did not want

Vietnam. Vietnam is the most unpopular war ever, probably next to this Iran war.

You know, only history will tell how this Iran war plays out. It will be more unpopular. But the Vietnam war went on forever and it was insanely unpopular. It was based on a lie. It was based on a false flag. Out the DCI director Richard Hells ordered the destruction of most of the records related to Project MK Ultra. Oh, how convenient. The agency's illegal mind control and drug testing program. Fuckers. These fuckers, man. You know, they only found out about some of the stuff because

they found some records that hadn't been destroyed. This is also in Tom Al-Neil's book in chaos, which I recommend every week. This is the best book, man. It's the best book ever because Tom worked on it for more than 20 fucking years. He went crazy researching that book. Can we supposed

to be just writing an article on the anniversary of the Manson murders? Like how horrible it was.

And how does he get to News? Like, oh, this guy was fucking corrupted shit. Who's this

“motherfucker? I love when people lose their mind like that. I think when somebody finds a rabbit hole”

and just keeps on going down and down, it becomes their life. Yeah. You know, these are the videos. There's every so often it was in the, the build up to the most recent McGregor fight. People were sharing videos of him doing his Edo portal movement from sort of 2016, 2017. And he's in that old gym in Strait Blast Gym in Ireland. And there's the yellow walls. And he's doing sort of snake stuff. And so I remember somebody captioned it and they said something like, uh, this is like watching

a prime Renaissance artist at work bringing together the 16 chapels. You know, just build it almost a sacred to watch this thing happen. And that's Connor's favorite famous line, right? Like, I lost my mind to this game. Yeah. And that's, in some ways, we review people that have completely gone insane because of their pursuit. I think it's so cool. In his prime, when he was in that flow state, like, uh, particularly in the Eddie Alvarez fight, it's one of the greatest performances

in the history of world championship MMA fighting. It's a stellar performance. It's an A plus. He hits Eddie Alvarez with a combination that looks like he's in the Matrix. And there's one part where Eddie's glove like comes right here to his nose and he moves just out of the way and then bam, counters it with his eyes open. It doesn't even touch him. It's magic. It's a magic performance.

“But you can only maintain that level of RPMs for so long before you just go crazy. Why?”

Because it's too hard. It's everything about you. It's not a sustainable thing. The, the, the peak performance of the elite athlete, the Mike Tyson when he was 20 years old, Roy Jones Jr in his prime. You can't keep that up. It's too hard. You keep it up for a little while. But eventually your body's going to fall apart. Your knees are going to give out. You're going to have back problems. You're going to break your hands. Something's going to go. And then you're going to be

compromised, but no one knows. You know, you know, you can't really push off that left leg anymore. You know that your lower back hurts. So if someone's trying to take you down, you can't sprawl as hard. You're just going to roll to your back and go into guard. You've got some strategies for dealing with it, but you're not the same person anymore. And a lot of these guys, they look the same. They get out there and they're ripped. They got six packs. They're fucking bouncing around. But

they know there's something wrong. They know the elbow sucks. They know their neck is fucked up. They know they probably need a back operation. There's a lot of that. And that's just the numbers. The numbers of training sessions. The numbers of times you've been taken down. The numbers of time you've been leg kicked. The numbers of time you've been hit with jabs. There's just so many numbers that add up. And the human body can only take so much. And then there's also just the

manic motivation of wanting to be great. It's not the same as maintaining greatness. Wanting to be great is like you, you are obsessed. It is so special to you. It's like you can almost taste it. You believe in yourself. You're going to make it. And then you show up at that championship day. Like when he fought Jose Aldo and this look in his face like he had done everything. He needed to do for this moment. He was dead calm and he lands the perfect left hand.

So there's that. You can only do that for so long. He did it again in the Eddie Alvarez fight. There's next fight when he went up to 55. He became a two division champion. It was fucking spectacular. I don't know how long you could do that man. And so then you see those guys fight as they fight like later in their career. You know, it's like Connor. If he lost that fight to Max Holloway any other way.

Like he got beat up and stopped. People would look at him like he's that. He's that guy.

“I think you have to look at them like they were when they were in their prime.”

There's a there's a moment, a window of excellence where all fighters get to. And I always

point to BJP because BJP in his prime was fucking insane. I would put prime BJP at 155 pounds against anybody ever. Anybody at 155 ever. I would I don't know if he would have beaten could be could be just the all-time great. I don't know if he would have beaten his lump, but I know it would have been a nightmare. It would have been a nightmare. He was a fucking phenom. And when he was in really great shape when the Marinavitches were training them. He was doing all his crazy

plyometrics in here this insane gas tank. He was just a monster. Just like insane genius fighter. Do you think there's a difference between trying to make it and trying not to fall off in terms

of motivation and how people feel in terms of the momentum? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. The drive of wanting a

thing is so strong. And then once you get it, it's like the fear of losing the ability. There's that. And then some people, they just love being a champion. They just love the feeling of dominating everyone. They want to continue to dominate people. And those people, they're the Anderson Silva's. They're the ones who have the long reigns where like everybody's just terrified. And the small of the fuckers just got this down. He's just ready. You know? And there's a few guys that

they go on these long runs. And he's like John Jones is the greatest example. His run is so long. It's crazy to be relevant at his age after being the youngest UFC champion ever at 22 years old to still be considered the greatest heavyweight a lot. Is that still the youngest? And he's still considered the greatest heavyweight a lot of currently at 37. Even though he relinquishes belt, he's like, "Hey, you can keep it." I'm going to do whatever I want to do.

“I've been getting obsessed with the low kick championship. Have you seen this?”

Oh, it's horrible. Yeah, it's horrible. You like it? I think. Well, I feel less bad watching that. Have you ever been low kicked? Yeah. So, doesn't bother you watching that? I less than watching a power slap. Yeah, I agree. I mean, this actually is probably just because of the relative like pain of seeing somebody stand there as you're going to swing an open palm at their face. It's just a CTE factory. Yeah. And then yeah, for me, the low kick championship,

which is at least it's iterative. It's never a one and done. I haven't seen any of the fights that

have been a one and done yet. No, I haven't either. Which is so horrible. Yeah. I've seen a lot of leg breaks, though. In that low kick championship? Oh, yeah. Oh, I haven't. Are you having? No, I have. I hate those. Do you want to see some? No. Thank you. You've seen a lot. A lot. It's always the kicker. Maybe sometimes the kicky. There's no way that the person being what FEMA. Oh, people have broken their

“fingers and fights before. Yeah. Definitely. I think that happened to Dennis Alexio versus”

Stan the Man Longenidas. So, yeah, this guy's going to don't do it, Jamie. Don't you fucking do it. There it goes. Jesus, Jamie. Son of a bitch. See if you can find Dennis Alexio versus Stan Longenidas kickboxing. So, Stan the Man Longenidas. He used to be actually trained by my old trainer, Shuki. My friend, my friend, Shuki. He was from Magiro Jim. He's from Israel. Went to Magiro Jim and Holland fought out of there, trained out there, and then came to Woodland Hills. And he was running

the Magiro Jim and Woodland Hills. He was Stan Longenidas's trainer and Shuki's like an elite kicker, like his kicks are insane. And he taught me a lot about like low kicks and like how to deliver like more effective and like how to set up low kicks, great coach. So, he was training with this guy and Stan kicked so hard that Shuki was holding pads for him and he wound up getting a hip replacement. Because this guy was blasting his leg so hard while he's holding the big shield

that he wound up getting a hip replacement. Yeah, watch this. So, Stan the Man Longenidas was an animal. Look, a big fucker too, man. Big fucker. So, watch this kick when he lands this kick. Right there, boom, he lands that one low and he's hurt. Go down. See his legs snapped. That's one

It's crazy. So, he throws the kick and Longenidas was a fucking powerhouse dude. Look at the power

in that boom. And it's a check kick. So, he's not even stood on it. No, man. He checked it. It just fucking cracked it in half. I mean that wasn't even planted. So, his leg was up in the air and Longenidas

“kicked so fucking hard and he snapped it. That's thought it was his femur. That's how long ago I've seen”

that fight. Is it a compartment syndrome? Is that something that can happen as well? That happened to Austin Hubbard. Do you know what he's fighting in the USA? Yes. So, what happens is when you get a bunch of different impacts to your legs, you've got all this internal bleeding. You know, you're, you have massive conditions. Like if you ever looked at his Austin Hubbard's leg

from the up on that, you want to get grossed out. So, he's one of the only guys that I know of

that fought in the UFC that because of compartment syndrome, he had to have an operation where they opened up the side of his leg, like all the way. And you see the tissue inside of it, how badly destroyed it was. Look at that. See that image that you just showed? That brown stuff on the bottom. That's actually his fucking tissue. That's the meat of his leg. That link isn't available. But that's it. You can see it there. That, you're, you're only sitting

like, this is like the screen, little tiny one. When you click on that, it will be the,

“the big picture. But that picture you see it. See it, where is in the hospital?”

What was his thumb up right there? That one. Go to that one. So, you see the side of his leg. Look at the slice. All that black stuff. That's his muscle. So, they've opened up his skin tissue to allow the drains to get in there and allow his leg to heal. Yeah, crazy. That's fucking horrible. It's horrible. Okay. Maybe I don't like low kick championship anymore. Well, you're right, a favor was one of the toughest people that's ever walked the face of the earth.

He fought Jose Aldo and Jose Aldo destroyed his leg with the point where like the, the whole thing was swollen, like twice the size and purple. And that was when I first started hearing about fighters using hyper-pair chambers for recovery. So, you're right, it was really the first guy that I had ever heard of that was

accelerating his recovery from, you're right, it's very smart. He's always on top of like all the latest

training methods and he runs team alpha male and Sacramento. And so, they were putting him in hyper-pair chambers. And then I was like, oh, that's interesting. So, I started looking into it and I was like, oh, this isn't, this is before anybody thought of it as an anti-aging protocol before they did any of that stuff. He was like one of the first guys that ever heard of that was using it to recover from injuries. Michael Jackson was using one. Was he? Yeah. Yeah. It was a Wackel Jacko's coffin and it was

him laid down in a hyperbaric chamber. That's interesting. Wonder what he was doing it. I mean, he was into some pretty crazy health stuff as well, I think. Well, he was into some non-healthy stuff. Yep. That's crazy. He, he was into getting sedated. That's also true, which, yeah, you mentioned that. 60 was doing it. Wow, 86. That's crazy. Yeah. Fuck you, you're eye-fabeer. It does help you. I'm so good. You were telling me that it,

it's really helped you quite a bit. Yeah, the hyperbaric chamber is such a unbelievable tool. I mean, the reason that I think not many people talk about it is it's so inaccessible. It's Michael Jackson's secret plan to live for us. I said I would make him live to at least 150. Well, uh, 50 venom in pills a day. I guess that was the plan. It's like a protobrine Johnson. He was just talking about hyperbaric. He says it's the number one intervention of everything that

he's ever tried. But it's so expensive and time-consuming and kind of awkward that it doesn't make sense. I've been looking at the backyard ultra races. Have you seen these as well? It's backyard ultra races. Yes. So you run a full mile loop every hour in your backyard? No. Well, yeah, I guess people do on ranchers. There's one here at Beppe Formans. There's a bunch of others.

“Every hour on the hour, you have to run four miles. Okay. You go until only one person's left.”

Oh fuck that. So it was made by the guy who created one of the most famous orientiring runs. And what he didn't like, super, super difficult run, they included tearing pages out of books to ensure that you'd be into the right place. And sometimes the map didn't work. Lots of people didn't finish this race. But sometimes they did. And he wanted to create a race that nobody would win. The only winner would ever be the race. Right? Because eventually, when you're the final person,

when number two's dropped, you don't keep going. You give up. So this guy called marked out

four miles every single hour, 395 miles over basically five days. He's just completed that. And the guy that currently holds a record, this dude called Phil Gore. He owns that he's got the record at 119 laps. So for every lap, it's one hour. He's going to do in three days time. He's going to try and do seven days straight. 168 hours without stopping. 168 hours. Four miles every hour. Jamie, we have to edit this out of the podcast. So Camhaines doesn't hear about it.

I don't want him to die. I think he's had a crack at it. But yeah, they had a crack at that. I think he's done some of them. I know that it's true. It's been like associated with Nick Barrett by performance. And they do a lot of those as well. Dude, that sounds like someone's going to die.

“I mean, what's fascinating is you have this one hour block. You have to have completed the”

lap by the time that the next hour begins. But you can either go quickly and get maybe 15 minutes or so of a little bit of rest. Maybe you can have a tiny little sleep. I get some boys just keep going the whole time. Oh, you can move a little bit more slowly and just come into land before and then basically just keep going. So the pacing, the nutrition, the sleep. But yeah. And as far as you can't make the four miles within an hour, you're going. Yeah, I'm trying to find the video. Wasn't he

troll in the guy at the end? Like, he was going slow and like he just sort of like kneel down behind him and waited for him to go. And as soon as he went, he was like, I'm right behind you. I'm here behind you. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere. Trying to get me quit. It's not mental game. I think the last little. I don't know. That distance running stuff's fucking gnolly. It's so quick. It is crazy. But it's interesting how they can maintain that pace for such a long time.

Like the pace is not bad. It's not they're not walking. They're running. Yeah, it's a little shuffle. It is. But so it makes me wonder, you know? And like, in terms of MMA, there's guys today that their cardio is so insane that they've completely raised the bar. Marab Dovish will is the best example. His cardio is so insane. He's completely raised the bar for what we thought was possible in a five round fight. I mean, this guy just has this fucking insane work ethic. And he's

always in the gym and he's always training and his cardio is just so elite because it's just

built upon layers upon layers upon layers. And it makes me wonder, we have this idea in our head that a person can only go so so hard for five rounds because you're going to you can't recover. I don't know if that's true. I have a feeling that much like these marathon runners and altruers and all these people that are doing triathlons and iron men that you can build up your endurance over time if you keep pushing and keep pushing. As long as your body doesn't break and this is

the real problem with MMA, your body can break because you don't your wrestling and get it kicked and punched. But if you can build it, I think it's like everything else. It's layers upon layers if you

never let off the gas and you keep going, your body will adapt, your body will adapt, your body will

adapt and eventually get to a point where you could kind of go like 80, 90 percent for five rounds, which would be fucking terrifying. What's fucking terrifying and Marab is kind of almost there.

“How old is he? He's older now. That's what I was thinking because the following is 36.”

In order to get that baseline of cardio, I think it's going to take such a long time to accumulate and the problem is that you can lose some of the explosiveness you're going to accumulate some injuries. So if you've got rid of the fighting bit and just did backyard ultra or something similar, then you've maybe 42-45, maybe even someone who's 50 might have not done the damage of the impact. 35. 35 years old, who'd be 36 in January. And you think he's got the biggest gas tank?

The best. It's insane. His gas tank is extraordinary. He wilts people. You see it. It's just like

it's insane. He never stops. He never stops coming at you. And it's like he doesn't win. Like

everybody wins. Everybody slows down in the third. He's nice. It's like a pit bull, man. It's crazy. And it's just hard work. Famously, Daniel Cormier, he went to visit him on the Sunday after he won the World Title and he went to his house and he was out running. He was the one in the World Title. And he's out running. He just never gets off the gas. And as long as you just, do you see this guy? Oh, yeah. He's out running for the mile. Yes, I did.

“I'm the label seven year old record. I think he beat up by half a second.”

Yeah. He's another guy using altitude training. He lives at altitude at 16.2 miles an hour average for four men, you know. That's crazy. That's so fast. How fast is the record?

Fuck. Good British man. Look at him. Go man. He looks so strong too. Like he doesn't look like he's fading at all. That's so impressive. Cool that they had the chase a light behind him as

well. No, where he needs to. But he is just separating himself from that dude in second place.

I don't even get by half a second, too. I don't believe I can. You just, you just did it. It's crazy. Yeah. The second thing. But it took so long for the four minute mile.

“All right. That was the whole. Yeah. Movie. Mm-hmm. And then it's three, four, 42. What was it previously?”

343.1er. That is crazy. Unbelievable. Half a second. That's crazy. It's such a miserable distance as well. I don't want to do that. I don't want to run in mile flat out. I don't know. I mean, he was kind of flat out for a whole mile. But so the guy that I was working with today with the hypoxia trainer, he was telling about this guy that this guy, his whole thing, is like training an altitude and sleeping an altitude. And that it's legal as cheating. If you can live at altitude

and you're doing something that requires endurance. Like, and we were talking about, I was like, if I was going to give advice to a fighter, or if I was going to set up like a fight camp, like a fight was going to bank role some big time trainer to set up a fight camp, one hundred percent. I put a top of a mountain. Hundred percent. Everyone's going to sleep there. Everyone's going to live there. At the Dagestan. He guys are there. Oh yeah, man. Of course. They're in the mountains.

They're mountain people, man. Little mountain goats at the top of this thing. Yeah. I savages. Yeah. It is

straight. I mean, looking at Lance Armstrong and what he was doing, he was basically reverse engineering

that. But just through pharmacology and blood doping. Okay. Well, we can work around that. Yeah. He was doing that. But he was also, he was doing a lot of altitude work too. But he was also doing what everybody else was doing. This idea that Lance Armstrong was this big cheater. If you took away everyone in the podiums that hadn't, that hadn't been busted. If you took away anyone, anyone that got caught with any substances, I think you would get down to 18th place.

“I think that's what they said. It was a dirty sport, completely dirty sport.”

So he was the best at the dirty sport. Sorry. I played within the rules. They want the rules that was sat down by the Federation, but they were the rules that everybody else was playing by. Yeah. I mean, they got him and he was, you know, he was guilty and he did lie about whether or not he did that. But they all lied. They were all, they're all doping. They were all doing a bunch of shit. You know what I think about, I think about the fact that lots of pursuits that people

go into aren't tested federations, business. Business isn't a tested Federation. If you want to take Armadafanil and work 19 hours a day, you can do that. Right. No one's going to come and stop you. No one's going to say, hey, this share price, that's unfair that you got that share price, because you were enhanced, you were using Aderola, you were using too much caffeine or Parasanty, you know, you were on the Newton or whatever. It's good point. No, that's not a

tested Federation. Right. But it's as important. Maybe even more important to a lot of people. Some more people participating in business and participating in professional sports. Yeah, especially things like Aderola, the like you have energy all day. You can work 16, 17 hours

a day. Have you ever used it? I've never used it. No, no. It's carried away. Yeah, it's carried away.

That being said, Victor. I'm sure it's fun. Jamie, get us some Aderola. Let's fuck it.

“Did you, when you talked to a hundred Biden, did you guys talk about crack all the time?”

So I told you that I was going to do that and then we didn't do that and you did it. I didn't take the idea. I promised. You already had a book. We had a book. We had a book. We didn't tell me you had a book. So I told you that we were going to do it. Should I have told you? I'm just sorry. It doesn't matter. Some of the guys got upset. Like, you took our idea. We were going to do a protect our parks with Hunter Biden.

But then Ari, because we thought Ari couldn't make it, we wanted to do another protect our parks. And Ari was in London. And Ari was like Newfoundland. Yeah. And he was like, I'll fly back for that. And we were like, all right, fuck Hunter Biden. And so we didn't. It's just as well I got it. Ari's have had no fun. Yeah, he talked a lot about crack. Dude, I got to say he's so likable. It's terrifying how likable he is. Well, you know, mean he grew up with a politician.

And he's a smart guy. Maybe. I mean, I was trying to find the, was the manipulative game that's being played here or whatever. It's interesting that he took a long time out of the public eye. Many, many years. And then he sort of re-emerge. Some people are very upset. Some people are very upset that like these conservatives are platforming him. Like, you know, they're criticizing that. But, but you don't want to hear about what his stories like.

I mean, this guy's obviously, he lived a wild life. We got to answer him. I want you to ask him the question. What was it like to be the most Google drug addict in history? Probably. And it's, it's fucking wild. How, what does it feel like to have that much pressure on you?

future of the country. Like, there is a person in there. And there is a person under a level of

scrutiny that has maybe never been seen before. Like, you wake up one day and you told us the

story of what it was like to just have the laptop that he just, it just, this story bursts. And it is everything. It's the future of the country. It's the future of your dad's legacy. It's your life. It's your family's life. It's his two years into sobriety at the time. I think that there's a question back. Is the laptop real or is it really they hacked into his cloud? And then they put it on a laptop. 'Cause I've heard him say that that there's way too much data for it to

have ever been on a laptop. 20 years. Yeah, it's two decades. Everything, every text message, every photo, every, every, every, every, every. Right. Yeah. So he get in through the laptop. What is his, but is it actually in the laptop or did someone put in the laptop? I think, I don't want to say anything

“incorrect here. So let's just make sure that I'm correct. Or let's just find out what the truth is.”

Is his position that they, down, but they hacked into his cloud? And that's how they got all those videos of him like smoking crack and going 170 miles an hour and getting foot jobs and all that stuff. Like, that that all was in the cloud that wasn't on a laptop that he just handed to a repair store. That that's a bullshit narrative to cover for the fact that they hacked into his cloud and got all of his photos and videos. He didn't give us the specifics on that one. What I do

think would have happened is maybe you get into the cloud through the laptop. If you've got access to that, if you open up the laptop, because you need to have the, the logins, then you can just get into someone like that. But you still have to, you have to log in. Once you get the laptop, you have to have the passwords. It's crazy dude. I mean, I was so me. He's got some passwords. I did not. It doesn't have a real answer to that.

He did not definitively claim the Delaware laptop was hacked or stolen and a 2021 CBS interview. This was a long time ago. He said did not know whether or not his, his and float it. It was his and floated several possibilities, including that a laptop was stolen for me, that he was hacked or that Russian intelligence was okay. He's doing the Russia Russia Russia ship back there. That was 2021. You can get away with that. You can get away with anything. This is also while

Joe Biden was the president of the United States, right? So there could be a laptop out there that was stolen from me. Okay. This, this is not a good timeline. You got new shit. The, yeah,

“the timeline in the recent more recent interviews, I believe his position was that the amount of”

data wouldn't even have fit on a laptop. And then it's bullshit. And they're calling it the laptop. But a lot of it is just his personal information that he had somewhere that was hacked. So then the narrative is not that, this guy was so cracked out that he had a laptop filled with him. Get it so fucked up. You got to push it for more clarification. Okay. And August 2026, interview with Tucker Carlson Biden reportedly said, hey, reportedly your

perplexity. Come on. You're supposed to tell you didn't listen to you watch perplexity. In August 2026 interview, Biden reportedly said they hacked my cloud. He denied the full collection described as his laptop could all have originated from one device saying it was way too large. He suggested an unknown actor potentially an intelligent service or another person could have taken digital material material rather and combined it with the purported laptop narrative.

So that's possible. In July 2026, Substack launched. He wrote that the Providence was never

established that no court forensics examiner had certified a chain of custody sufficient to make evidence rather than theater. He did acknowledge that material associated with reflected his addiction struggles. See, there could be a lot of things going on. One could be that he was cracked out and he left the laptop and he doesn't remember being cracked out and leaving the laptop. But the idea that there's too much data that it wouldn't have fit on a laptop,

the problem with that is there's two terabyte hard drives on laptops now. Like that's a lot of data. What was a, well, this is 2020, right? Here's the one thing to have find very interesting about it. What's on the screen? The guy who ran the shop that the laptop was supposed to drop the off at legally blind could not confirm who the customer was because he's legally blind. Oh,

how convenient. It's probably never went to that place. It's probably a total fake story.

And they, they made up a fake story. Maybe they even stole a laptop of his, well, the thing that I was most fascinated by was he was two years sober when that happened.

“Now, seven allegedly, although he's tested, I think, supposedly. But who? And yes, yeah,”

maybe. Oh, you're a great son. He told me that he packs his bags with witness. When he

In case he, someone snuck something into his bag, who's going to believe him? So who's going to

believe that's crazy? Yeah. Imagine living like that. Dude, the amount of scrutiny. That was why I was the most fascinated by. I was thinking, what is it like to have the entire world bearing down? And you know, I need the world, the country, the future of politics, your dad, your dad's legacy. Are you going to get a pardon? Who even fucking knows who cares? Probably not like, oh, my god. And then there's the reality. Don't go back to drugs. Don't use your drugs again. This is how you

would have fixed it. This is how you would have done it in the past two years sober. Yeah. Oh, my god. Two years sober. So gentle, too. So dangerous. You're not even out of the woods. And when you think about that whole story, how that blew up, right before the election, it could have been an intelligence

plot to try to sink Joe Biden. And they countered it. And the way they countered it was by blocking

the story from Twitter, a factual story from the New York Post. Julianne apparently held the information for months and released it less than three weeks before the election. Julianne has long been involved in efforts by the president and his allies to highlight Hunter Biden's work overseas to damage Joe Biden and boost Mr. Trump's reelection campaign. And in 2019, and in 2019, met with a Ukrainian lawmaker who had been deemed an active Russian agent by the US government.

“Well, does it the October surprise? That's what they call it? Yeah. So that's true. There's been”

something that the losing side has pointed to is the justification for why it happened. Uh huh. Russia gates, uh, Biden laptop suppression, and then in the most recent one, it was podcasts. Yeah. But that was, well, this is what had it not have been for the sway that occurred due to this run that was done on podcasts to that. That's what moved the election. Well, the real problem with that narrative was, I don't know anybody who wasn't willing to talk to Kamala Harris.

I was willing everyone reached. I tried to talk to her a bunch of times. And they tried to pretend that I made it difficult. It's a fucking complete horseshit lie. They also lied and they said they came down here and checked out the studio and did a run in the place. They did not. They did not do that. They did not. Trump's people did. And I've said that to look if you want to say that they knew that someone did, but I don't know how much they're communicating with each other.

Trump secret service people came down and they scanned the whole place. They went through the whole place before he came in. But she's alleging that her people did a run of the studio. They did not. Her, no representatives from her organization were ever here. And that it would be insufficiently secure or something. Is that what? No, I mean, they, they said that we were making it difficult. I was making it as easy as possible. And the one day that she offered to do it,

I was already booked with him. And I even said I would do it. And I said I would do it, but it would

“have to be she had a gig in Houston. She was doing like a speech in Houston. I think that was one”

of the ones where like Beyonce came out. Everybody thought she was going to sing and she didn't. So everyone got mad. Yeah, everyone got mad. So she was somewhere else in Texas. And I said, listen, if she, when she's done with that, I'll do, I'll do a podcast at midnight. Come on in. I'll go whenever you want to do it. I'll do it the next day. I'll do it that night. That would have been one of the wildest 24 hours of your life. I was down to do that. And that was

going to release in both of the exact same time. Unreal. That was the idea. But she wasn't willing to do it. Jane, they even gave me a bunch of things. This is also the, they didn't tell the truth about. There was a bunch of things that they said she didn't want to talk about. And I said, fine, she didn't want to talk about her record for prosecuting marijuana possession in in California. And then for using those people that were supposed to get released past the date that they released

to fight wildfires. She didn't want to talk about that. Fine. And then there was one other one. I forget what the other one was about that they didn't want to talk about. And then they came back and said they did want to talk about marijuana legalization. Oh, immigration. They were not so keen

“on talking about immigration. Maybe less than immigration. Was it immigration, Jamie? Do you remember?”

I don't remember what the other one was. But I was like, fine. I'll ask her about cooking. I don't give a fuck. Like, let's talk. Like, I just want to sit down across and find out who you are. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. I'll ask you if you believe in Jesus. We'll figure it out. Do you believe in UFOs? Like, what do you think? Well, you can release the files? Like, I'll find out who you are. Let's go. Maybe I like you. Maybe no one's out of chance to see you for this

way. Maybe you can laugh or joke around and be like a real person instead of like being a person with sound bites because you can relax because you know there's no time constraint. Who fucking knows? But we didn't get to find out. So to say that like you're blaming podcasts on her not getting

elected. How about the fact that you spent 1.4 billion fucking dollars and you put someone in

without a primary and you blew all this money and you're still lost. Like, you guys fucked it up.

They were like, they had it. If she never did another fucking speech and never did a podcast,

never did anything. And only did pre-prepared like monologues like that. Game over. Game over. Game over. Game over. She's younger. She's got more energy. She's like a new fresh thing. Let's go. How much do you think the that run of podcasts for Trump did move the needle? Have you got any idea? It did a lot. I think it did. I think it did. I think it the one the one with the Ovalon. I think moved the needle first and then the one with me. I think you got to see him fuck around a little

and relax and talk about things and you got to see a human being instead of like a cartoon. But you're going to got to see one side of the election do that. You didn't get to see. Yeah, you could that could have happened with her too. Like, I'm not a hard interview man. I'm not, I don't want to get in arguments with people. I'd like to get in discussions with people. I'm not into being insulting. I'm not into being shitty. I'm not, I'm not into doing that.

“I'm just, I just wanted to talk. Like, if you want to run the president, you want to be the”

commander and chief of the greatest army the world's ever known. Like, let's have a conversation. I don't think that's that hard to do. And if you can't do that, like, what do you hide in? Who are you?

I think it was a lot of her people that didn't want her to do it. First of all, there's a lot of people

that are like a super woke and didn't want her to and in any way to be associated with me. And then there was a lot of people that were really worried that she was going to say something that fucked it up or that we were going to get into something that she can't defend. You know, because there was a lot of things that really did like make people go, what? Like, when she said she wouldn't have done anything different than Joe Biden, when she was on the

view, I don't think I have anything different. Everybody's like, oh, great. This is nuts. We were trying to vote for you. Fuck it, lie to me. There was definitely that. And then there was, there was a, you know, some crazy stuff she said too. Like, when she was vice president and I was saying, like, how dare we say Merry Christmas? Like, you get those clips and you go, wait, what, who are you? Who are you? Do you believe that? Do you really believe

“how dare we say Merry Christmas or is this like a crazy thing that you want through that day?”

Well, it's wild to think I'm worried about being too bombastic when the person that I'm going up against is Donald Trump. In an, I mean, well, some people, they, they fuck up a few things and then they're terrified they're going to fuck up. So every time they do an interview they're like, I don't want to fuck this up, I want to fuck this up. And that's when the staff gets involved with, they want to one staff in the room. I'm so like, fuck no, no, you can't have

staff in the room. Fuck out of here. Fuck out of here. They also want to know if it's edited. Like, we edit things like this, no. You got to, people have to find out who the fuck you really are. But that feels scary because there's no get out of jail free. Close to be scary. You want to be the president. You want to be the president. It's the scariest thing of all time. Yeah. Yeah. You got to deal with potential nuclear war. Okay. I think you can sit down

for a conversation. Yeah. It's not even me. Even it's on me. Sit down with a bunch of other people. But sit down with people are going to ask you real questions. Really talk to you. You know, like, I don't know what happened on the caller daddy podcast, but I think it was very short. I don't think they got into anything deep. Like, you got to ask like

“the immigration thing was nuts. You have to ask like, what are you doing? Why do you”

guys have an open border? Why are you just letting all these unvetted people from third world crime-infested poor countries? Desperate people. Desperate that don't want to walk to America. They don't crazy that is. And we're just letting them all in without knowing how many of them are just trying to make a better life and how many of them are drug cartel and how many of them are terrorists and how many of the fuck are you doing? What's happening with the status of

immigration now? I know that they put the breaks on it. They stopped like an enormous number of people crossing the border. Like an enormous number. I think it's down like, what is it down? Like how many, what is the percentage of illegal border crossings down since Trump has been an office? They could have done it the entire time, man. They wanted that border open. They wanted those people coming in. They wanted to flood the census. They wanted to flood those swing states.

They wanted to get people that are here and give them citizenship. They wanted to get them on Medicaid. They want to get them on healthcare. They want to give them free cell phones. They wanted to make those people voters. And they wanted to try to just make it like it's California,

like the whole country's California, like you could never leave. You could never escape.

It's one party runs it forever and they run it terribly and it gets more and more terrible and they need more and more money to make it more and more terrible. That's not a great case.

Okay. January 2025 border patrol recorded 29,000 in the first full month of the

administration February that fell to 8,000, about a 71% month to month decline. So, all told what's the percentage of decline? What's the percentage of decline based on 2026 versus 2023? Let's find that out. 2025 versus 2023. Data. Okay. Let's see what they say. What percentage is it down? 88%. 1.8%. It's down. 88%. No, crazy. That is. That's crazy. So, they were letting millions of people in.

“And we didn't know who they are. And you know, the idea is like, if you want to be a kind,”

compassionate person and immigrants deserve what you have. Okay. But we have to know they're

not murderous folks. Okay. We can't just have you ever been to like the worst places of the third

world? Probably not. If you did, you wouldn't want those people just like roaming around your neighborhood when you have to leave your garage and go to work. You wouldn't want that because they just look, oh, the guys on here, I'll break into his house. Well, how much of this is a luxury belief that the people that are espousing the things that that's supporting on the ones that are going to be impacted by it? The same is. It's the same as I told you this last time I was on there was

house near where I live in Austin that had a defund the police sign in the front yard and a private security sticker on the front window. That's cute. People are cute. Well, there's a lot of

that. It's a lot of white people. White people are real problem. Wow, that's this. Dude,

privileged white people that started dropping in 2024 because of a Biden asylum here something. Yeah. Sure, dude. Listen, they probably tried to put the brakes on it a little bit when they were losing the election. You know, when they were getting the poles in, they were going to try to get a little tight. Yeah, for sure. Like this, otherwise they would have done it in 2023. They're not, they're doing it because of a political reason. They probably would

open it right back up if Comma won. Like we, you know, no one's illegal on stolen land. Come on in. You know it. Meanwhile, Victoria's secret is up 300% Euro on your the share price because of those MPIC. I found this out yesterday. What? 300% increase of those MPIC? So what the proposed reason for this is that millions of women have lost so much weight that their bras have stopped fitting and because they're smaller, they're now going and getting more seductive under 100% increase

“Euro on your heart. A little stick figures. That's what's happening to it. It was MPIC's a fucking”

hell of a drug. Here's another thing that I found out that women are getting bridal dresses fitted but they're having to predict where their weight is going to come into land. So some women are losing up to 50 pounds, losing so much weight between ordering the dress and the wedding, that these bridal, bridal stores are having to get them to sign waivers in case they don't make weight, like a fighter. Like if you don't make weight for your bridal dress, you go what we can't

give you another one. You've said that you're going to lose 50 pounds using GLPs over the next nine months or 12 months or 18 months or whatever and because they're scared that they're going to end up getting these refunds that are having to sign waivers. I think the future implications of those MPIC on economy consumption, like think about what most of consumerism is. It's not stuff that people need. It's like things that people want. It's like a craving. It's impulsivity. It's

repeated purchase. Right. And that's exactly what GLPs act on. They're not just suppressing appetite, they're suppressing craving in a lot of different ways. And there's like what happens to a capitalist system when you suppress pharmacologically, suppress craving? I want this thing. Well, maybe you don't. Noting quite the same way because it seems to work on weed. It seems to work on video games. It seems to work on a ton of different behavioral people don't like wine as much.

“Okay. So it's not just calories. It's more than that. It's consumerism as well. And I think”

what happens when you intervene pharmacologically in people's desire to crave is just that is the other side. So AI on one side and fucking GLPs on the other. Well, they say that some people have different reactions to GLP ones, right? And some people have a lack of desire for relationships, which is really creepy. Like what is it about? Is it taking away pleasure? Is it taking away

What is it dulling in the process that also stops drug addictions? Like it's helping people

that have addictions. And it's also helping people that are, you know, that have like impulsive behavior

“apparently, I think that's true. But the weird one is the side effects of relationships. Like you”

don't. Maybe it's craving again. Maybe it's the same thing. I looked at the study on the came out on X and people were talking about it. There was some criticism around whether or not that particular pathway in the brain works the way that it would. But if you're surprising craving overall, that wouldn't surprise me. No. If you're making people just want less. Right. I don't want that at all. Bill Mar was arguing with Scott Galloway on real time about that. Galloway was like

big on GLP ones. There's benefits. You know, I think also the thing is dosage. This is an issue.

And this is an issue that's been brought up by compound pharmacies that there's certain people

that don't need a big ass dose that you're going to get. Like depending upon your body weight, depending upon your size, you know, like a 500 pound man probably needs a different dose than a 135 pound five foot tall woman. Is that not being suggested? I don't think so. It's not being advised.

“I think I think people are starting to do it through their various health care providers and various”

doctors of experience with these things that are giving people a smaller doses and less. And then there's the returutide stuff. I say not right. Returutide. Returutide. Returutide. Returutide. Returutide. Returutide. Returutide. That one is a weird one because that one allows you to keep muscle mass. And that's the big fear that people have is that you're starving yourself, but you're also losing losing bone mass and muscle mass. That's because people who don't have good fitness habits

reducing and already suboptimal diet, they're not eating well. Another eating less of not well. They're still not training, which means what happens because I think about 90% of people that go on GLPs and then come off them gain the weight back. So it's you don't change your behavior. You don't change your behavior, but you lose muscle on the way down and gain fat on the way back up. Right. So if you end up back at the same way that you were previously a composition as

well as. And that's that's really concerning because you're basically locked in to use them for the rest of time. If that's the case, if you can't use something else to fix it. I know that they were using different things. Like they were using IGF1 along with GLP1s to mitigate the bone density and muscle tissue loss. But the reality of having less calories coming in, then coming out,

“as your body is going to eat itself. I mean that's what's happening. Which is why you need to”

do resistance training? Yeah, you have to. You have to lift heavy weights. I'm not heavy, but you have to lift something. So you develop bone density. And this is a giant problem with

older people that have never lifted anything. They're body composition. They might look normal,

but they're made out of dough. You can just punch right through them. And if they fall down, they're going to get hurt, man. That's not. When people get older, like one of the main ways that people die is falling. What happens? They hit their heads. They slip in the shower. They slip in the bathtub. They hit their heads. They break a hip. When you break a hip, man, the odds of you living more than 10 years reduced drastically. A lot of it is also because at the time that you're breaking

hip, you're probably old already. You know, old already. But there's like real data that show that once people have fallen and broken a hip, like that's a catastrophic injury that you've got to think of all the resources that your body has to use and employ in order to heal that. And then there's the compromise and movement that you're going to have for a long time. You're going to be able to walk. You're not going to need assistance. You're not going to have the same vitality. You're going

to be recovering and being exhausted. People with Alzheimer's disease are substantially higher risk of falling. Wow. Falls can be fatal, especially if they can cause a hip fracture, head injury, or complications from hospitalizations or immobility. Research indicated that 60 to 80% of older adults with Alzheimer's experience of fall, more than twice the rate in cognitively normal peers, there was a late, there's a new story that came out recently, Jamie, about a woman who's

survived for eight days in a bathtub after she fell. Sure, I saw her. Insane, so had had a tumble and wasn't found. I don't know what the fuck she was doing in order to be able to stay alive. I guess we're going to bathtub. You've got some water. Yeah, but peeing in the put tub and drinking the water and hoping for the best. Two years old, nine days actually says, "Oh my God!" Drink water. She managed to splash up onto her face by turning the faucet on with her foot.

Oh my God. Oh my God. Nine days in a fucking bathroom. How did she not dive

I guess I mean, is she that good at turning the knobs of her feet? She could call herself to death with the fuck man. That's a home real mountain North Carolina. Oh my God. The poor lady. What's get her on the sheet survived? Get her on the podcast, Jamie, before Christ does. Poor lady. We probably have to go to her. Fuck. Probably have to go to the opposite. That is insane. Fuck man. There's people that get through

some shit. I was looking at the studies of how long people have stayed awake for. That gets really fucking nice. Because people go into psychosis. That's a Lindsay Clancy case thing that's going crazy at the moment. A lot of that is because of supposedly sleep deprivation on a lot of anti-psychotics, etc, etc. But you don't need to keep people awake for that long to turn them

“insane. If you're awake for a couple of days, I think all fucking hell breaks loose, which is why”

those backyard ultra is just seems so deranged. Do you think how are you even able to apply effort to what it is? How are you able to make decisions about what you need food or sleep or rest? Or to go harder or to give up? I don't have hallucinations. They all see things that aren't there. Like Courtney do Walter. She won the, uh, what's she win the big foot? Is that what she won?

When she came on, she beat the second place dude by 10 hours or something crazy.

Imagine you come in second place and you're second place by 10 hours. Yes. Because they'll be half a day. The race is three days long, three days of hell. Well, the crazy thing about endurance is that as you get longer and longer, the difference between the sex is starts to even out. And I think in Walter it even's out even quicker. Big swimming in more buoyant. Overdistance is

“women about a swimmer's. Makes sense. I think they're gonna rock. We don't have to build food swimming.”

The terrible out of it. You don't have to build. I recently learned about, um, just coming up on my mind, roaring McDonald's walk out music. This story where he changed his number. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've dated the US. It's such a great story. I only found this out. Yeah. Were you there at any of those events when he was walking? I think he came up to like, uh, uh, MC Hammer and people asked him apparently he got rumble because he wanted Nickelback and they asked him

after when they were like, sorry, we couldn't get you Nickelback. Because I didn't ask for fucking Nickelback. Then we walked it out and it was just some guide. It was a fan that was deciding to submit songs. Yeah, on roaring McDonald's behalf. The guy got Roy's old number and

roaring never bothered telling the UFC. And this guy knew who Roy was and he was just so jazzed up

that he could pick Roy's watch music and the guy had a good sense of humor. So he'd pick some wax songs. DMC, MC Hammer, DMX, sorry. MC Hammer. Well DMX is great. MC Hammer's great. I mean, some people love those songs. I don't know. I think Nickelback's got legs as well. Bro, Nickelbacks has some good songs. It's just their formulaic and people don't like formulaic songs. There's something about them that people think is too much of a formulaic song. But like

how come you like the Cypress Hill Rockstar song? But you don't like the Rockstar song. It's like the same song. The Nickelback song and Cypress Hill are the same song. It's the same song. It's the same song. It's the same premise. It's about being a Rockstar. All the crazy shit that you're going to do, I want to be a Rockstar and I want all this cool shit. Look, the Cypress Hill is a better song. I'm a big Cypress Hill fan. If I'm getting to tune and it starts off with Chino talking,

like there's not many songs that Chino Marino from the Devtons. That's true. Speaking. That's true.

“He's laying out what you need to do to be a Rockstar that there's a lot. But like, okay,”

we can't play this for everybody else. But just for you and me, which one? We'll start off with Nickelback. Start off with Nickelback. Nickelback Rockstar. So fucking happy about this. There's a conspiracy theory that Nickelback got taken down to demoralize America after 9/11. That's hilarious. It's like an interesting alien. Well, but it was an American, American, like,

thrust forward into the world. That kind of freedom rock. Well, they were always a punchline.

Allow me to get you down the rabbit hole, but I did it. The Olympus would stop when it's a funneling. That, now, allow me to try and load. So, we'll listen to Nickelback, Rockstar song first. Here we go. Go to Cyprus Hill. Just the same song. Just the same song. No, I love Cyprus Hill. But I'll be rules by boy. I love that dude. They're the shit. I fucking love these guys. See, I forgot how hot that song was. It's a way better song. It's a way better song. You know,

one of the dopest covers ever, rage against the machine, covered pistol grip pump. Have you ever heard that?

This is one of my favorite Cyprus Hill covers. We're rage against the machine, covered Cyprus Hill.

“It's fucking fantastic. It's fucking fantastic. It's better than the original. That goes hard.”

I never heard that. That goes hard. That's so fucking hard. That's one of the dopest covers ever.

There is a, what do we, Jamie's gonna continue? It's like they had an assignment. It's like Cyprus Hill and Nickelback had an assignment. I want you to write a song about how dope it is to be a rock star. You want to be a rock star. You want those cool shit, right? But Cyprus Hill took it from the position of like all, all you're gonna suffer. All you're gonna lose. You want this. You know how hard it is. And Nickelback's like, hey, hey, I want to be a rock star. It's fluffy. It's fluffy. Yeah.

But it's kind of like an assignment. It is interesting trying to warm people off of something that everybody thinks they want. Does this a study that was done on when people enter airplanes and they walk through business class? Economy walks through business class. There's

an eight times increase in passenger-rage incidents. So it's a reminder of your place in the

status hierarchy. Yeah. And I think it becomes very difficult when trying to warm people off of like the rich person telling you that money won't fix your problems. Or the famous person telling you that status isn't going to change yourself worth. Or the beautiful person telling you that looks aren't going to actually make you feel more valuable in the world. A lot of the time when when people hear that, it sounds like a luxury belief. It sounds like someone trying to

“pulling the ladder up after they've managed to achieve it. And that's why, I don't know,”

the rock star that reminds you why it's so cool. And this is what you could get. Rolling Stone ranked rock star at number one hundred in the list of the hundred best songs of 2007. Wow. But Buzzfeed listed it as number two is one of the 30 worst songs ever written. Is it really though? I think they're unjustly criticized Nickelback. They're not that bad. They're coming back around. No. They're coming back around. The nostalgia is bringing them back

for sure. Yeah. They're not that bad. Do you know why? Well, I kind of had an issue with why it's back in the day. Well, so I mean, this was happening when I was in the audio school. So that's like when YouTube started, you know, Napster was very big and people were discovering them. I mean, it's a little bit of opinion based. But there was a video that came out that went very viral and that played one Nickelback song and left speaker and one in the right speaker. And they lined

up very on the like every chord change was kind of like at the same time. The verses change at the same time. It's for me late. It's for me late. Yeah. It was very formulaic. People just sort of like clown them for being too formulaic. Yeah. I get that engineers would even say that they didn't like that because they were recording what they call in the box, which would mean they were recording everything very dry and then changing all of the effects after the fact. So like nothing that they were

playing was like live necessarily. And so some people had a problem with that. I get it. I get it. They're not the stones. They're not the stones. White people music. They're not pink Floyd. You know, I get it. It's white people music. It's 98 IQ. Max. He can't say that. Yeah. I just did it. Like, I, I, I, I, I, I can listen to some 98 IQ music. I don't, I like me so much. What do you think? I mean, Max. I'm saying Max. Other people, why, it's okay. You know, you can

have high IQ and go. That's all right. But you're like, what's high on the season? Eagle book. Wow. What is high IQ music? Pink Floyd for sure. Well, jazz. I don't know. You know, jazz is interesting because I know a couple dumb people that love jazz. Um, and a lot of brilliant people have jazz also. Tool, tools very high IQ music. If, if you're into like mental, probably a little disturbed, you're a little disturbed, a little mad at your parents.

Eric Weinstein brought up the polyphilia. I fucking listen, if you had Tim Henson rules, dude.

“Well, if you, that's extreme. I don't, you have to be thinking a lot, even, like,”

it's not passive listening. Right. Well, if he is not passive listening. Um, God, there's a lot of great bands, man. I don't know what's high IQ music in that way. Like the popular as well. I'm being silly. Yeah, but, but I was trying to think about what that would be. If it's Beethoven, you know, something more refined. I don't know. To me, that's the most fascinating music is music when there was no recordings. I am fascinated by the fact that these people wrote down

music on paper, so that other people could replicate it. And that's how they passed on these

amazing songs that people still play in concerts today. There was no ability to record.

Well, think about what stories would have been like before we had the written what? There's a, you know, there's a lot of really popular musicians rather than not musicians. Musicians who don't know how to read music. They don't have to.

They know how to play an instrument. They know what the sounds it makes. I don't have to say,

well, those working bullshit sounds. Fuck is that. Yeah, classically trained. Yeah. I mean, everybody loved the idea of being a Savon Renaissance guy sort of outside of the system coming in and I'm breaking the rules in that way. I went to how often that happens at the highest level. Like, yeah, the highest level is Hendrix. Because Hendrix played a guitar upside down left-handed. Why? Because he was left-handed. So he played a right-handed guitar upside down.

Did you ever see the way he played guitar? I don't know jackshed about playing guitar, by the way.

“This was explained to me. I think Weinstein was the first person to explain to me,”

but pull up Hendrix playing the guitar. He would play it upside down. Because it was, you know, not built for him and didn't matter. He self-taught. And to this day, widely regarded as a greatest guitarist of all time. And the most influential guitars, guitars, by far, the most. Like he was, he was a freak. Like when he came along, Eric Clapton famously said that he made him want to quit. That guitar is upside down, dog.

She's. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if all of his guitars were upside down, or, you know, some of them were actual left-handed guitars. But I think he played upside down. Hendrix was left-handed, but typically used readily available right-handed Stratocasters. He reversed the instrument. This put the headstock controls bridge angle and pick up orientation in unusual positions relative to a conventional left-handed guitar. And that wild? Yeah.

Fendantly, this fenders Hendrix signature Stratocaster recreates some of these visual and functional details, including a reverse headstock and reverse slant bridge pickup. Imagine like such a heads-in van still turned around. No, I mean, I'm think they did it his way.

“Wow. I think they replicated it his way because like if you were a fucking guitar nut and you”

love Hendrix, like I want them like, why does this guitar bullsh*t? This guitar's backwards. You know, Hendrix doesn't play it like this. I'd want to learn on a Hendrix guitar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know, I've been thinking a lot about like how we assumed wisdom compounds over time. So I guess not too dissimilar to that. We have this epistemic privilege that we give to a future version of ourselves, right? So we assume that us now knows more than us in the past or that us in the

future will know more than us now and it sort of progress goes in that way. But for some things like matters of emotion or important life lessons, especially things around pain, I don't think that that's true. So for instance, you could imagine that you're in a relationship with somebody and it's really painful, it's really uncomfortable. And after six months, you bump into them again. And you can't quite remember the sleepless nights and the way that things fell awkward and the pain in the

“same way as you used to and you start to think, well, maybe I should maybe I should get back with them,”

maybe that maybe it wasn't so bad or the guy that works in a very aggressive job, high-powered, high-paced job. And he's burned out and he can't sleep and a year later he misses the status. He misses the acclaim, he misses the accolades, he misses the camaraderie of working in that organization. And he thinks, well, maybe I could get back, maybe I could start again, it'd be competitive, maybe I could do that again, or someone that's been addicted to alcohol.

And after they've been sober for a couple of years, they think, well, maybe I should run that back, maybe it wasn't that big of a deal, maybe I can't do it again. So there's this sort of fading affect bias, which is this idea from psychology that says bad memories fade with time, but good memories don't quite the same way. And it's good because it protects us from being pinned underneath

trauma that happened in the past. You know, you're not still so worried about your first rejection

from a girl in the same way as you might have been shortly after that. So bad memories plus time can equal comedy, but good memories plus time doesn't usually equal tragedy. It's kind of a way to think about it. That's great. It's like a psychological immune system. We distance ourselves from things, we minimize them, and it's a really fundamental part of the way that we deal with pain and difficulty in life. One of the problems is it causes us to forget the receipts of why we did the

hard work in the first place. So if you think about why you worked so hard to get yourself off of the alcohol, that was because of the pain that you felt at the time, but the pain that you felt at the time evaporates, the further that you are away from it, which is the reason that you actually made all of that work and put yourself through that process to improve your life. So you could imagine that healing gets rid of the justification that made the healing necessary. So it's just

this strange inversion that we always assume us in the future is going to be better educated than us now.

We know more. Like that's the way that it works. Of course, I have accumulated more experience. I know more. I'm closer to the future version of me, which means that it's more recent. But in some things, especially matters of pain, discomfort, emotionality, being in the future,

that kind of seem to loop themselves back into bad situations. Someone that keeps on getting back

into a bad relationship. Someone that keeps on getting back into a bad relationship with substances or a job or they just keep on, they seem to be stuck. I don't think it's that they're not moving.

“I think it's that they're sort of looping back, they're forgetting the justification for why they”

needed to stop doing this thing. Yeah, this idea that healing destroys its receipts and this fading affect by us being kind of the mechanism that works on it. I've found it pretty fascinating when thinking about observing my friends' lives. That is fascinating. But I think there's also an element of people finding comfort in familiar patterns and sometimes those familiar patterns are just failure. They find comfort in failure. They find comfort in falling off the wagon. It's too

difficult to stress of not drinking. It's so strong. It's so much that can't handle it. Just give

me a fucking drink. Jesus Christ. This is a lot of people that just the pressure of success and not fucking up is so scary and so daunting and just maintaining that they fall into the self-destructive patterns. Why do you think that's the case? I don't know. You'd have to talk to a psychologist, but it seems to be a reoccurring pattern with people seeking comfort in familiar patterns that are the failure patterns. They're like maybe it takes pressure off of them to succeed

because for some people the idea of succeeding, the idea of getting it, it's like it's so overwhelming. It scares them. It gives them anxiety. It fucks them up all the time. And when they start doing well, hey, 333 days sober, you start saying things like that and then next thing, you just pops in your hand.

I want to fucking marburough and I want to be here and I want to go to the bar and see my friends.

And you just want to go. Well, that feels like comfort, right? I suppose there is a curse with competence. It's interesting when you see people that are kind of down in their luck and it makes sense that maybe they might hit the bottle or they might rely on bad suboptimal habits but when someone's really competent and you keep on seeing them fall back, that's what's particularly interesting. Do you have a look? You've got something else. You have

“an alternative here. That's what's really interesting to me. But I think that if you're the”

sort of person that's good at things and stuff typically goes well, success doesn't become a reason for celebration. It's the minimum level of acceptable performance. It's a curse of competence. Success itself is what you have to aim for and anything less than success would be a failure and success itself is nothing more than acceptable. That creates a really perverse incentive, which is I can only not lose. I can't ever win. It's this sort of debt you wake up every single

day behind. But only if you dominate the day perfectly, do you get yourself back up to the minimum level of acceptable performance, which is perfection? I think the perfectionism is kind of on the rise at the moment. There's a bunch of studies about a few guests on the show talking about it. That is how relatively, what do you mean by it's on the rise? Perfectionism is, I mean, the studies that have been done on it, looking at perfectionism as a personality trait. There's a

few different types of perfectionism. There's personal perfectionism. I must be perfect and there's other perfectionism as well that people around me must be perfect too. And that can be protected. How are they measuring the effect of perfectionism? How are they measuring how people enacted in their lives? It's a psychological scale so they can have a survey questions, things like, if I do not do, if I don't succeed, that means I am a failure. I must ensure that

everything is controlled. So there's a criteria list. Right, but who are they asking? Depending upon who you're asking, you're going to go a higher version, a higher number. If you're asking people in West Virginia and Trailer Parks versus someone who's working on Wall Street, you're going to get different. It's like, what's the sample size? Well, I'd like to think that they're doing it representatively, but you might be right, that might not be. Anyway,

I just certainly from what I can see this desire that people have to, I mean, a capitalist society, meritocracy, if I can make myself more important, more successful, that means that I'm going to get accolade, please, please. Right. And this goes back to the poverty parade thing. Right. If you're walking through business class to get to a economy, you're reminded, you're reminded of your place within the hierarchy. It's also some really interesting data around if you're in a high income

inequality area, a self-objectification by selfies from women on Instagram, goes up. And this is a huge study by Candice Blake over in Australia, and they did a correlation. It might have been on Twitter rather than on Instagram, and they looked at geolocating images, ranked them based on self-objectification, and then looked at the wealth inequality in that local area,

“higher wealth inequality, more self-objectification. Which side is doing the self-objectification?”

Women. Women that are poor or women that are wealthier. All women. All women. In that area,

look at the inequality on the top, and how low you could potentially fall to on the bottom of it,

“get you motivated. Yeah. And that is the same thing. I think it's a similar sort of mechanism,”

if you see high inequality, perfectionism is another escape hatch. That's another ejector seat that you can pull. If you're not going to use your assets to get your access, maybe you could just do it yourself. You could bootstrap it yourself to lift yourself off the launch pad. And yeah, the perfectionism thing is kind of fascinating to me, because I think it's,

it means that people never really get to escape from the standards that they set. And if you're

good at stuff, it becomes even harder, because the minimum level of acceptable performance is just perfection. Right? I'm not sure how I feel about that. First of all, I think a lot of that it's got to be motivated by social media. That's a big part of it, because now you're getting to see what everybody has, whatever everybody's doing. See what they look like, see their house, their car, see their this, see all these things, these objects of desire, so that I think

accelerates people's desires and wants. And then you also get unrealistic beauty expectations from the internet, particularly social media apps that use filters, right? You're getting a very distorted perception of what people look like. And so that it probably accelerates the amount of plastic surgery, women get, and amount of things that people are willing to do, probably the amount of steroids that young men do, you know, all that stuff. But, you know, the idea of perfectionism,

like what are we talking about? If you're talking about pursuit of an, an excellence of a sport,

or of some sort of a discipline, some sort of a thing you do, people have always done that.

There's always been like outliers who are trying to be the very best ever at something. You know, that's always going to be the case. And we celebrate that, because when, you know, there's a guy like Larry Burr that keeps hitting those three pointers. I was like,

“fuck, remember when I was a kid, people would throw garbage into the little garbage baskets at school.”

They would go, "Larry Burr!" You know, like, they wanted to be like Larry. They wanted to be like Michael Jordan. They wanted to be like Mike Tyson. People celebrate the outliers. They celebrate these excellent people that stand above and beyond. There's a article about it. I don't know how they figured it out yet. Interesting. There's, uh, it's been growing since 1989. This is Larry's. Perfectionism is a public health risk. It's associated with increased oppression and anxiety.

Yeah. You know, you're going to be depressed and anxious if you're trying to achieve perfection. But I don't know if that's bad. Like, it's really about whether or not you can manage your fucking mind. That's interesting there. So there's, uh, perfectionist, there's an increase in different rates. Perfectionistic concerns, fear of failure, indecisiveness, and fear of being negatively judged by others, increase much faster than perfectionist, extraivings, the motivation

to set extremely high standards and work hard to achieve them. So that's, I guess, maybe the difference between what you're thinking about, which is kind of positive perfectionism wanting to set a goal and chase after it as opposed to fear of failure, indecisiveness, and fear of being judged negatively by others. Yeah. That's the big one, right? The fear of being judged by others is a real fear because of social media. Go back, stop, stop. But when they, they say it increased

much faster than perfectionist strivings. So the problem with the perfectionist strivings is

“then you have to have delayed gratification. You have to have the ability to say, "I don't want”

to do this today, but I want this in the future." So I'm going to do this today so that in the

future I can succeed. That's abstract. That's hard for a lot of people to grasp if they've never

gone through a process before. If they've never trusted a process of improvement, this is one of the reasons why sports are so important for young people or any kind of pursuit, like learning how to play guitar or learning, learning anything that's difficult to learn. Because you realize there's a process. You realize you start off sucky and then you get better over time. But if you are never doing anything like that, if you're just existing and you've never been challenged

to try to improve it something that's very difficult, you don't understand the striving, the perfectionist striving. And even that term, I don't like that term. Excellence is a better term. You're striving for excellence. Perfection is not possible in anything. There's nothing perfect that no matter what you do. There's always going to be a failure. It's a human error. There's always going to be, you might get to, like, there's a perfect example. In games of pool, like in professional

pool matches, the rarest of rare matches is a match where a guy runs out the entire set. That means, like, say, if you and I are playing a race to 10, okay, that means the first got to make 10 games in a row. If you're really good, you might break and have an open run on the first rack and break and

done. Earl Strickland did it for a million dollars. He won a million dollars at a tournament and they wind up fucking them, but Earl Strickland's like one of the greatest pool players of all time. But they had a million dollar insurance policy. If someone could run 10 racks to make the tournament more exciting, 10 racks in a row, they won a million dollars. Earl Strickland is a mad genius. He's one of the greatest players of all time and he knew there was a million dollars

in the lines. This is one of the fucker came focused and he broke and ran a 10 pack and they didn't want to pay him. This is bullshit, but it was on film. Whole things crazy, but that's a thousand nobody does that. And if you do it, you're going to fall apart in the next game.

You'll have another match like the next day. You're never going to be perfect. You're always

going to miss. It's just humans. There's going to be air. Michael Jordan as good as he was, didn't make every basketball. Mike Tyson lost fights. You're a human. There's no perfection.

“But there is excellence. And that's what people are pursuing. Really. I don't like that term.”

You're a perfectionism. I think what's maybe useful about the term is that because that is the term, it belies the futility of pursuing it. It's like in containing it, it kind of mocks the pursuit of it itself. Exactly. Because it is ridiculous when you're talking about appearance. It's ridiculous when you're talking about frivolous things that are meaningless. But when you're talking about Magnes Walker or Magnes Carlson playing chess, that means something. That's a crazy thing

that that guy's able to do. That pursuit of extreme excellence is celebrated when messy play soccer.

You know, when someone is an outlier, like we love that. So this idea that you shouldn't love the most excellent of excellent people that are the most celebrated in society. And there's a problem with people chasing excellence. Like if you're saying there's a problem people chasing perfect appearances because then you get dysmorphia and you start looking at yourself all weird and then you get an anorexia or you get your lips done and you don't know

there are two big that yeah, that's fucked up. That pursuit of perfection is insane. The perfection of the lip, but we're not, we're not capable of achieving perfection. We are capable of achieving excellence. So if you call a perfection, it sounds like it's a problem. If you call it excellence, it sounds like a pursuit. Yeah. Fedora, really interesting stat that I found out about him. He won. Maybe about 80, 85% of the matches that he played across his entire career. Crazy. But he

“only won about 56% of the points. That's the edge. And you have to be a madman to work hard enough”

to beat everybody 85% of the time. If you're a madman, how many fucking people are playing tennis? How many freak athletes are out there, fucking whack and balls all day, doing sprints, if you lost nearly 50% of the points that you played. Crazy. I fucking love that stat. Yeah, there's this great line that the curse of discipline is that every day looks the same and the curse of in discipline is that every year looks the same. I like that. And I've been thinking

about the relationship between discipline, motivation and obsession. So I think obsession is kind of very misunderstood, feared by a lot of people, even the people that have got it sometimes. It's also dismissed by people that wish they had it. And they don't have it and they mock it. How's that? Because they look at someone who's like obsessed with doing something and they're like, oh, he's fucking lost his whole life playing that stupid game or he's given up his whole life to

“for his music. Like what's the point? I think there's a lot of people that want to dismiss the outliers.”

Maybe they don't like the way they stack up against them. Someone's like the best at something. You watch some guy. They can just do this thing that no one else can do the way. He does it.

Like there's a bunch of people that celebrate it for sure, but there's always going to be a bunch

of people that think there's something wrong with it. Being threatened by obsession is kind of interesting. So everybody wants to, I think it's to do the relationship with friction. So discipline is friction accepted. It's like I will force myself to do the thing regardless of how hard it is. Motivation would be friction removed. Which is like I want to do the thing. And then obsession is friction inverted. Like I can't not do the thing. I'm pulled towards it. It's harder for me to

not train. Right. It's for me to train. It's harder for me to not play guitar. Right. Then it is for me to play guitar. Right. So it's all about that relationship. And this is why I think people get so confused. Because from the outside, obsession can look a lot like someone just using a shit ton of discipline, just grinning their teeth and getting through it. But you don't realize from the inside, they have no choice. They have no choice but to do it. All that they go to sleep thinking about it.

They wake up thinking about it. They have no, there is no way that they can stop themselves

pointed towards politics or porn or your ex or video games or video games or weed or we know whatever that becomes very dangerous. But if you can and this is why some people and I'm going to

guess this is you. It certainly me. Some people have problem solving brains. They're always kind of

rotating a little ruby cube in their mind. Thinking how can I, this is an interesting challenge for me to face and how can I change it? What did you know? How would I fix this thing? Just playing with ideas or trying to get better at something that's always working on something. Someone that's got a problem solving brain but doesn't have any good problems to solve. We'll just chew themselves up. They'll eat themselves inside out because that is when you get

obsessed with stuff that you shouldn't do. That is when you get obsessed with porn or politics or your toxic ex or that person that you think that's cut you off in traffic and that's when you chase after. That is the kind of problem solving brain without a good problem to solve.

“And I think a lot of people feel a degree of shame or at the very least, like they're marionated”

by this problem solving brain, by the speed of what they're going through. The fact that they're

always turning something, they can't really get it to switch off. And I think a much easier

solution than trying to stop yourself from solving problems is to just give yourself better problems to solve. It's to start a business. It's to get a pursuit that you really care about. Right, but this sounds very simplistic though. We're talking about a legitimate mental health issue with a lot of people that don't have the awareness to stop a pattern. There's a lot of people that need a friend and they don't have any friends and so they need a counselor. They need someone

who can talk to them about what they're doing and give them some tools as to how to navigate out of it because there's a lot of people that are just stuck in that rut. And they could be really like, there's people that are wasting their life gambling. They could be really good at something else. They could be really good. If you applied that effort, that dedication, that obsession to something.

“Yeah, I completely agree. I think the funny thing for anyone that's on the right side of their”

obsession, they're applying it to something that's positive, kind of a nice situation to realize, hey, you weren't that far away from being that guy on the street. Right, right. If you're honest with yourself, you're level of obsession, could have directed you towards that, that destruction, that distraction, that self-imulation, you're not that far away from it. It's the same fuel, it's the same fuel source. Yeah, it's just about directing it in a good way and figuring out

where that's going to be most beneficial to you and the people around you and some people just aren't good at that problem-solving. Yeah. And I think you're right to point to what you do in childhood. Sport is just, hey, if you work hard incrementally at these component skills, there is an outcome in terms of performance that will happen in future. Yeah. These small amounts, these little efforts will contribute to what you do. When you get there, there's delayed

gratification step by step by step, you work up. And it's just, it kind of lays the physics of the system. Yeah. Right. Okay. And then you get into adulthood, and you go, well, I understand, like delaying gratification is important. I can win the marshmallow test today, which means I can get something that I want in future. I need to think over a longer time horizon. Typically, I can use my, like, another thing that's kind of fascinating about that obsession pieces,

when you look at someone like Jocco, as a good example, what looks like obsession now. Oh, sorry, what looks like discipline is probably just who he is. The 430 AM thing, the kettlebell swings, the training. At one point, he was obsessed by that. That was probably what he thought about most. I know he was when he was still in the sales. Like, that was what he wanted you

“to get as big and as jacknets, the lethal as possible. And I think that's quite his priority in the”

same way now. But what you see, if you allow yourself to have positive obsessions and for them

to cool over time, you basically start to build up these layers of a pyramid, which is, well,

I'm not obsessed by training, but I used to, when I was in my 20s, and now my training obsession is just who I am. It's called, like, like, love has sort of cooled into the core of this planet, and it's now who I've become. So, my training is just part of my life. And then, okay, what was the net? Well, I started to learn. I wanted to tell the truth. I wanted to be an upstanding person. So, I started to maybe go to therapy, or I worked on my mental health a little bit more.

Okay, that's now cool. That was an obsession for a while, and now we've moved on to the next thing, and I really wanted to build this skill. I want you to become a good father. So, I worked out how I could deal with my emotions when interacting with my kids. And now I've got that skill. Over time, serial obsessives, I think, whether it's in business or in training or in personal development. What you end up with is this unbelievably well-rounded person. But if you don't allow

they feel guilty. They feel a little ashamed of it. They want to push back against it, but it's the

freest discipline and motivation you're ever going to get. You're never going to find... Who feels

guilty about being obsessed about things? I think sometimes people do. But good things, the mockery of your friends around you. Oh, dude, I'm going to go and play guitar again, are we? Oh, going to go and... Are you a little music thing? Is that going well? Anybody who falls victim to

“that? Do you deserve it? Because... That's so silly. Do you need to stand out for what it is that you want?”

I don't, all the times in my life when I've been obsessed by things, if anybody like tried to mock me being obsessed by it, I've been like, fuck you, cares what you think. I couldn't have cared less. That's interesting. I don't know whether it's a British, the mockery of the tall rapy thing. Yes. It's a huge part of British culture. If you diverge from the normal path, it is, you know, we have the same number of universities in the top 10 globally, but we produce 20% of the entrepreneurs

compared with America. And I think that a lot of that is... Yeah, it's not... Fucking Cambridge, King's London Oxford. Like these aren't rinky-dink organizations. They attract unbelievable talent. Why is it that we're not producing the same kind of orthogonal thinker, self-starter, sovereign, high agency people that you might get out of America? I think a lot of it is, it's just not as encouraged. It's not, and it's a shame. And I wish that I could, like,

gift some of the enthusiasm back to the UK. Like, Americans basically have permanent first-line

cocaine energy. That's just like, it's so enthusiastic about everything. And some Americans. That's true. But I just wish that I could get that back. I wish I could push that back to what the UK. So it's something that would make a massive difference. Oh, sure. I'm sure it would, but it's very difficult to change the way a whole country thinks. It's like the attitude of the country. This is the attitude of this country is you could make it here. Like, you could,

everybody feels like they're just a few good deals away from being rich. Just a,

“there are a million air that just hasn't made it yet. Like, that's, I think it's one of the”

reasons that the victimhood culture here has kicked off more though. That in the UK, you don't expect to be able to become much. It's very class system still over that. When you're a kid, you're not told that you can be anything that you want to be. If you diverge from the path one of the first things that happens is, what are you doing that for? It's a stupid idea. Good in some ways, keeps your feet on the ground. But bad in other ways, because it means that you don't go for it.

You don't take the big swings in the same way. In the US, I get the sense that kids that are told you can be anything you want to be. The American dream is still very much alive. If you work hard, you can raise yourself up, pick yourself up by your bootstrapped and become something. Okay? What happens if you arrive in adulthood and you're not given that which you felt you were promised as a kid? Well, that feels like someone's taken it away from you. That feels like someone's

stolen your rightful promise. This is the same reason, interestingly enough, the same reason why Korea, the women in Korea are some of the most left-leaning in the world, supposedly, that they were given equal access to education over the last few decades. And that meant that as a quite patriarchal society, they were constrained, not able to access education the same way. They finally get into it. They're emancipated. They're getting degrees and higher education at the same rate

as the men. And then they get into the real world. And all of the employment opportunities haven't caught up. And it's still very sexist when it comes to the way that employment and promotions and wages, this still a big wage gap there. And what that means is in the same way as the American child that was promised all of this stuff as a kid doesn't get delivered it when they become an adult. A lot of the women in Korea, it seems, were promised through their education and then they arrive

and the rug feels like it's been pulled out from underneath them by a work force that is still kind of in the market, in their equivalent of the dark ages. But this is people throw their toys out

“of the prime. Why would they not? I think that I deserve this. And yeah, the victimhood culture in”

America is, I know, I wish I could take some of the bits of America and put them in the UK and some of the bits of the UK and put them in America and I think we'd end up, that was what used to be.

Fuck it, we'll just bring it back together again. Yeah, I think you're always going to have

people that are dissatisfied with their station in life. The question is like, were they equipped with the tools to create a better life when they were younger and whether they were equipped by their family or they equipped by whatever thing they got into, a sport they got into when they were young or some sort of a discipline where they realized it's really important that kids realize it in an early age about a process of improvement, trusting the process. That's the common phrase

Trust the process. Trust the process. You hear about that with coaches, like in MMA fighters,

they're always saying that we've got to trust the process that there's a process of build up

up to a big fight. There's a process of improvement to get your black belt. There's a process of improvement as you rise through the amateur ranks into a professional race. You got to do things the right way and keep doing them and you're going to get better. Some people never learn that and then they get to a point where they think things should have already happened and why haven't things happened for me and then they get angry. You know, and it's a lot of it is, it's very

difficult to find a good environment, very difficult to find light-minded people that are empowering and when you're around them, you feel better, you feel motivated, you feel inspired. That's also hugely critical for people. It's like people want to think, "I'm a loon wolf, fuck off." No. There's no one like that. That's all bullshit. The people are very depressed. Why do you think the trust thing comes from? Because trust? Yeah. The trust of the process.

“I think a lot of people want it's people that have done it before. You have to learn from people”

that have already done it. Like if you're learning from a wrestling coach, you're learning from a coach that wrestled. There's no wrestling coaches that didn't wrestle. They all wrestle and that you learn from them that there's a process. This is what you're going to do and it's how we're going to get better and trust me when week three comes along and you can run this hill, a lot easier than you run it today. You're going to be thankful for these five A.M practices,

like you're a sur. You're going to trust the process. And if you have a good coach, the good coach will show you at every step of the way as you're improving. You'll hit a move and I'll say you see how smooth you hit that. You couldn't hit that move last time. So true, it's so true. The inability to be able to see your own progress, to be able to see what you're doing. I think for a lot of people, goals are contracts to self-criticize until we succeed. And that's

how people whip themselves into submission and that's the problem with the perfectionism side of

“things. They're supposed to excellence. Right. If you were to say, I am not enough unless I am”

perfect as opposed to, I am good if I keep improving. That seems to be one of the differences between the two. But yeah, the goal is being contracts to self-criticize until we succeed. That's not what a coach would do. I'm sure that was when you were teaching fucking Taekwondo. And so on for the first time manages to land this cake or they win a, it's really, really close. You can pick out the elements. But so many people have got coaches in their minds that are the only ever

focusing on the negatives. If you have a good coach and you're in a sport with a bunch of other people that are doing well, it's like statistically proven that your level will be higher than someone

who has a bad coach that's around other people that aren't as good. That's just how it always is.

The best athletes always come from the great programs. You know, whether it's Oklahoma State University, wrestling or whatever the fuck it is. There's always like a bunch of different killers that come from a great environment with great coaching. People don't have that in life. All right. If you had great coaching in life and you were surrounded by a bunch of other fucking division one, all Americans who are like getting after it every day, you would be motivated. But most people

aren't. And this is a part of the problem. Most people are surrounded by equally lost people who are sad. And it's hard to rise above. It's hard to say, I don't want to go to the bar because I'm working on writing this book. And I need to write this book. Oh, you're going to fucking write the book. You're going to ignore your boys. Click. You got to know when to find people that are productive and healthy and are doing things, similar to what you're doing, things where you're like pursuing

something that you really enjoy. And not just waste your fucking life away, drinking every day. Like a lot of people will do. That perspective is hard to come by, though. It is.

“Because you need to break out of the frame that you're in already. This is the the lonely chapter”

thing that I'm kind of obsessed with. You're so developed that you don't resonate with your old set of friends. But you're not yet sufficiently developed that you've built up your new set of friends. And there's this temptation to go back, to go back to the old patents, the old habits, the old modes of reassurance. Just like we were talking about with drug addicts falling off the wagon because it's like it's easier. It's easier to feel. It is simpler. And I guess what's interesting

thinking about choosing a new direction and having a degree of self-assurance, like

living your life by design as opposed to default is one of the most important things.

But I wonder whether people that are in an environment where they don't have any good role models. Like I didn't grow up in particularly like solubious part of the UK. It's the most working class town in the back end of the Northeast of England. And there weren't that many people around me when I grew up that were like the person I wanted to be like. But there were fucking lots of people like the person I didn't want to be like. I didn't want his relationship with gambling. I didn't

want the way that he kept on cheating on his wife. I didn't like the fact that he used alcohol to deal with his emotional problems. So yeah, would it be nice if you had the D1 sports coaches,

Tim, he's going for a run as well. Yeah, that'd be awesome. But if you don't have it and you've got some people around you that are reverse role models, you can quite easily, you can make a lot of progress in life by avoiding pitfalls, not just expediting success. Definitely. By weaving away

from the things that you know that you don't want. The problem is a lot of those people will try

“to drag you down. And if you're in close proximity to them and you have to interact with them”

on a regular basis, it could trip you up. But yeah, a lot of people get motivated by like if you're around people that are alcohol clocks and you see them brewing their life, like everfriend his family was alcohol clocks and he's never had a drink his whole life. I was like, I won't touch that shit ever. He saw it, saw it wrecked people's lives, never had a desire to have alcohol. So that was and you know, he became very successful. So he figured out a way to just avoid

all the problems that all those people had. They motivated him. But it's better to be motivated by someone who's doing something you aspire to. As opposed to trying to avoid something that's going wrong. I think the option that people have now that was never available before is you could hear people that you admire or that you aspire to be like what they are. You could hear them on the internet now. There's way more access to inspiration than ever before. You know, when you have some high

achiever who goes on a podcast and has a conversation about something that they do and you can realize how this guy built his company or built his life or became this amazing athlete and what they went through, you can learn from conversations that you're not in the room with. You know, you don't get a chance to hang out with, you know, David Goggins or whatever. But you get a chance to listen to him talk now where it just wasn't available before. For all the different outliers like

like we were talking about Larry Burr before. Who the fuck was Larry Burr listening to? He had to be listening to the other basketball players that were playing with him that were all a bunch of

“killers. Like that was the only way he got good. Like he didn't have the internet. He couldn't just”

go on YouTube and five inspirational quotes. You know, he could listen to an Alan Watts lecture and have a new perspective on life. It was harder. It's a lot harder. It's a lot easier now. It's a lot easier now to be inspired. It's a lot easier now to also have examples of people that are living a life that is aligned with what you're looking for versus what you see around you all the time. You don't just accept it anymore. People, there's a lot more people now that are like,

I've got to get the fuck away from these people. Well, because the alternative is that you're fortunately like serendipitously just born into a culture where there's some people like the person you want to be like right next to you. Like how many people that are excellent individuals that are going to go on to try to have the capacity to go on to do something incredible. I'm around other people that are like that too. Not because by design you're an outlier.

So if you're an outlier there's going to be fewer people like you. Being able to hear people say,

“I remember I was listening to a pot of a while ago and there was this line on it. I think it was”

Mel Robbins. It said something like, um, all my life I'd always felt like someone was mad at me.

It was like, "Huh, I've never heard anybody put it, put it that way before." All my life I'd ever, I didn't Mel Robbins say this. Yeah, I've never listened to a podcast, but Tim Dylan was making front of her today. It was the funniest shit I've ever heard of my life. I thought that too. He goes, "She makes Gary Vee sound like Aristotle." Tim Dylan is the best. He's the best. Have you seen Gary Vee's talking about V friends recently? Did you see this?

No, have a little, this, this, this. Okay. Don't make me do this. Okay. All right. You made me watch a light kick. He's a nice guy. Yeah. Gary's a nice guy. I've had him on the podcast before. Well, maybe we don't need to learn about that. Anyway, just, my point is, regardless of how it comes from, you can find inspiration in a variety of places.

You certainly can, but there's more now than ever before.

And there's never a time in human history where you could be more inspired. You just have to seek it.

But you also have to avoid the tricks. There's all a bunch of things that are going to trick you and steal your attention. You've got to avoid the nonsense, avoid the nonsense on social media. And just find things that your time is very valuable and the same feeling that you get at a watching a tip. Like the same dopamine rush that you get from watching a TikTok video that means nothing, you'll also get from watching a YouTube video where you're going to learn something.

It's like it's just as interesting. Yeah, talking about the thing, talking about the thing and doing the thing, vie for the same resources. So you need to allocate yours appropriately. Yeah. Like how many people are just great at talking about how that plans are going to go? This is what's going to happen next. I can't wait. I can't wait for this new business that's going to go and it never happens. Well, you were around when the secret was a big movie and a

bunch of people really believed that they could just sort of manifest their life by thinking about it. Yes. That was a fascinating time. You know, that lady said that the reason the boxing day tsunami happened in Thailand was because the citizens were giving off bad juju.

because of a tsunami that happened on boxing day. Imagine, yeah. Believe in that. The crazy thing is the secret, the visualization stuff, which I'm sure tons and tons of the athletes that you've worked with, I think you commented on so many of them are using visualization, but people forget

“that you need to actually go and do the work as well. You think like, um, goddle steer the boat, but”

you still have to row as opposed to, you can just sit in the boat and think about it and you'll get rowed by yourself and that's the issue. The issue is that people want to shortcut and if you can give them a shortcut. Yeah. I think the visualization in the belief is an element. It's an element.

If you can never see yourself succeeding, you'll probably fuck it up somehow. But if you can see

yourself succeeding and you have a direct plan and you also put in the work, your odds of success are higher. That's all it is. But the people that have said that they used the secret to succeed, they're only the people that used it and it worked. How many people used it and it didn't work? Probably a fuckload more. Survivorship bias is a hell of a drug. It is a total of a drug. Yeah, I, uh, yeah, it's one thing to get what you want. It's another thing to want what's worth getting in life.

There was a lot of people believe that it was like, God's will for them to succeed. I knew God had a plan for me. Okay. There's God have a plan for that dude who's doing heroin in the corner. What about the guys that's pissing on himself on Skid Rose? I got a plan for that guy. That's

God doesn't like him. I didn't like him when he was a baby. I don't like him now. Fuck that guy,

give him fentanyl. How do you, how do you come to sort of think about the unfairness of the, the hands that they're being dealt? Why don't I think about that? It does make me really sad. Makes me sad to think about how unfortunate some people's like decks of cards. Oh, yeah, man. Oh, yeah, I mean, you can get born to a pair of junkies. Two junkies can have sex on Skid Rose and your

“born addicted to fentanyl right out of the box and your life is fucked versus if you have a child,”

your great guy, your educated, your interesting, your intelligent, your kids going to roll with a cool dad. It's like, it's like, it's not fair. It's not even remotely fair. You know, and we don't do enough to to fucking mitigate the unfairness. And I don't mean in terms of like redistribution of wealth or anything like that. Like making sure there's not that level of despair and poverty in a functional society. You know, in the fact that there's almost no effort, no real concerted

effort to clean up any of these problems that we have had for decades upon decades upon decades in our cities. It's kind of crazy. The amount of money we spend on other things. We could have fixed that a long time ago. You know, there's a lot of conspiracies about that, too, that they don't want that because if more people become educated and more people become ambitious, it's going to be harder to fuck them over. It's going to be harder to force them to pay taxes

for an inefficient government that's stealing and people that's too many questions. Yes, too many competent people. You won't be able to keep your job being an incompetent legislator. You know, there's a lot of theories about why school sucks so hard. There's so little money being put into schools. When you think about the amount of power that a teacher has over a child you're working all day. Okay, you're at work. Your kid is with another adult. And then a

different adult. And then the next hour. And a different adult, the next hour. And they're shaping their worldview for a solid seven, eight hours a day, five days a week, more than you. You're working all day. So you come home, like, what are the decisions, school? What? Daddy, they taught me,

“I could be anything I want. I could be a girl. Oh, God. Daddy, they taught me how important”

communism is. What? Ah fuck. And what are you going to do? You're going to go to the school, and you're going to yell at the meeting, and what do they do when that happens? They turn the parents into terrorists. They say the parents are terrorists. Why? They've called parents terrorists for showing up at school board meetings, and yelling that they don't want their kids being taught about sexuality, or they don't want their kids being taught about this.

Yeah, so they've, there's school boards that have tried to censor parents, and have tried to like label them domestic terrorists for trying to interrupt meetings, and say that they don't want their children being taught these ways. And so then what are your options? Your home school, yeah, well, on the other time, fuck. A huge amount of cost. Yeah, it is, it's weird. The state of the US education system at the moment seems fucking wild. There was these studies that came out of

Illinois, basically no one in high school could read like a fourth grade level. It's fucking into

I saw a video of a teacher crying that none of the students were even remotely competent. Yeah, what is a state that just because students were doing so bad, they completely dropped

for reading and math. Yeah, it's not good. I mean, that should be something we're really

concentrating on. It should be a really important thing in our world that's discussed every day versus whether or not men can play in the WNBA. Meanwhile, Penn State had cocaine ring at one of

“the fraternities. Do you see that? A ring? Cocaine ring. So there was... What do you mean a ring?”

Like two different fraternities were selling cocaine? Oh, not just selling cocaine. They were driving

to Philadelphia and back in New York and back to like create a huge cartel. This massive, massive

scandal, the dad of one of the guys that was in, that was the leader of it, is some attorney, dude, it was covering it up, putting money and drugs in the safe and the pledges that were pledging to go into the fraternities were made to cut and bag the cocaine. That's hilarious.

“Free labor? What school was this? Penn State. My God. 14 people arrested, including one of”

them that was the dad. This kid's got like a gazillion charges for it. It's me, well, they're just entrepreneurs. Look, we just encourage an entrepreneurial spirit. It's the entrepreneurs in a bad direction. It's like what we're talking about before. A session in the wrong direction. Why Penn State's great for wrestling? Right. Why didn't you go into wrestling? Or imagine if they put all that effort into a legitimate business? Yeah. It probably getting out of college already wealthy. Speaking of that,

“did you see Ben Asgren return to wrestling? One year after is... Yes. Do crazy. I had him on the”

product. I can't believe he did it. It's so nuts with two long replacements. He's got... Artif... I mean, he's got long donations, like somebody gave him lungs. He's a person. And yeah, he has to be on immunosuppressed in sort of, so his body doesn't reject the lungs. But having lung transplants is crazy. Having two is really crazy. And then wrestling a year later is just beyond insane.

He never looked at what the surgery was that he got. He doesn't know how they did it,

so I went and had a look. And it's the full breath. It's like your spray the eagle from reverse fish. Yeah, I got a pee. We're going to wrap this up. All right, Christopher. It's always a good time to see you. Appreciate you, man. I appreciate you too. Tell everybody your podcast, where they can get it, where they can watch it. Modern wisdom, apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube, just drop an episode with Jocca Willink, Matt McCusker, and Jeff Dye. So you can go and check that out.

That's a good combo. Yeah, I'm doing this. It's a mostly wise, which is the new series. It's me and McCusker with a serious seat. Hunter Biden was a serious seat for one. We had human for another. We've got a Neil deGrasse Tyson coming up in for your Brian Johnson. And I'm like throwing another comedian in as well. So it's kind of fun. Beautiful. Beautiful. Appreciate you, man. So nice. Thank you, bro. All right. Bye everybody. Bye.

(upbeat music)