JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson

>> The Joe Rogan experience.

>> Join my day Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. [MUSIC] >> Well, anyway, that's your comment down here, man, appreciate it. And congratulations on that standout performance against your female. Because that was a giant wake-up call for the entirety of boxing.

The level that you're on was it's so high that you could be in there with a world champion, a world champion, and making a guy who beat, I mean legit guys, including Looma Chanko. >> Yeah. >> Those are big victory for him. And you made him look like, yeah, no business in there.

“>> Honestly, it is his hard work, dedication, guy given ability, guy given ability.”

I think you have all that plus intelligence, plus you start a really young. And there's something about those dudes who start real young, you grow up with that. It's like in your central nervous system as your young child. I mean, would you start boxing like five? >> I started boxing that far, but honestly, you could say the same for Teo, too,

because he kind of started at like seven. We both was kind of similar and like experienced, but I just felt like with me,

the guy given ability on my instincts always kick in like, and we fought, I felt like,

my brain just knew how to win. Like, it just everything was just like my instincts kicked in and everything just took over. Like, I didn't even, it felt like I had a body experience. >> Well, you're a very tactical guy. >> Like, you know, there's the thing, one of the things I love about watching you fight is,

I love watching a guy who sets traps and who avoids damage. And you are one of the absolute, very best ever at setting traps and avoid damage. You take so few punches in your fights. >> Yeah. >> There's a one fight where you decide, recent fight where you decided to stand with that dude.

Who is that? >> Well, he was a pita. >> That's right.

>> The pita's a tough guy, man.

>> Yes. >> But you fought that in a different way. Did you do that on purpose? >> It was partly on purpose and partly to get his respect, because I really have a choice, but to get his respect, because if I try to outbox him and move around the ring, I probably

would have made the fight harder than it had to be.

“So I knew like, I got it like, make him respect me early and that's what I kind of like,”

started the fight. >> Hot. >> Why would it make it harder than it had to be if you box him? >> Because sometimes when you like a guy like, if you watch today's box, then judges give the fight to mostly the guys that's coming forward.

So if I don't win in there and bagging up and moving around the ring, why he was more active, it probably would have looked as though he's winning the fight. So I had to make sure like the judges know who's winning. So I kind of had to take some in order to give some in that fight. >> There was a very unusual fight for you.

I saw an interview with you after that fight, we were like, I'm not fighting like that again. Because I know like, I see like the modern day like the old school boxes and like the punishment that they take in and you'll see them today. They can't really talk as well as like, like the Audrey Wars and the Floyd, where the who can talk good and still articulate things to their grandchildren.

>> Right. >> To their grandchildren and to your children. >> For me personally is like, I want to make sure that I'm able to really speak well to my kids and my grandkids and all of that. So taking punishments for me.

>> Yeah. I support that 100% and I applaud fighters like you for setting an example for young fighters

“coming up, like defense and tactics and understanding the game is the most important thing.”

These guys that want to put on their taning fight and just going there and slug it out, like, man, you are giving up your brain for some people who don't give a fuck about you. >> Not you, oh my God, that's the guy's not in the shoe fight there. I'd be seeing a lot of fighters nowadays where they stand there like punching bags and let people hit on on me.

You'll see them at the fight they mark up and a few years, I don't think they're going to be able to speak as well as like somewhere like me, so no, there's a bunch of examples of that obviously we could all say it, but it's a complicated sport and for people that don't understand the sport and don't appreciate the sport, they just see two dudes punching each other.

But they don't see subtle movements and you were doing this like half out jab and then pop them with it and you could tell he had no idea it was coming.

of times while I was watching, I just was yelling out by myself in my house going, "Woah!" That check right hook, oh, it was so pretty manned, you hit him with some pretty shot, but it was just you were just tuning him up, it was a beautiful performance, man, because it was everything that I love in boxing, skill, movement, understanding, ring IQ, knowing what's happening and every time he would get fired up and try to take it to you, the

most he could do is touch your body, yeah, it's all he was able to do.

“Honestly, for me personally, I feel like I'm the best fighter in boxing and I don't”

mean this and no disrespect for the way, because I got a lot of fighters in boxing that I still watched to this day that I like and I'm like okay, I'm a still this, I'm

always sick, I love Ossi, I love Ossi, I love Bavall, I love them on East and European stocks, but for me,

I just feel like I'm a fighter that could do it all, like I can do it all, like whatever needs to be done to get the job done, I can do that, so some nights in my seat, I might out box people, then some nights, some nights I might stand there, beat a guy up and beat them at their own game, so I think for me, I'm the most complete fighter in boxing. Well that mindset is what you need especially in a sport where you've dominated divisions,

right? So if you've dominated divisions and you're still looking to achieve a higher level, you can't just look at the guys that are your competitors, because at 135, it was so hard for you to

“get fights, and 140 now what are you going to do?”

You just do that to TFVMO, scared a lot of people. Yeah, I don't want to look stupid, I mean, TFVMO's had some good fights in the past and

he's lost in the past, but he's never looked out of place, and he looked out of place

now, right? It's crazy though, because when I seen him, when he fought in New York on his own Times Square card, I'm like man, this dude is nice, like I'm sitting there, I'm like whoa, like, I couldn't believe like how good he was, but it kind of like just made me get up, like oh my, okay, I want to see, like what he can do with me, because the way he made Arnold

Barbosa look in New York was like, he just made him look like he's not on his level. Well he wasn't on his level, but then TFVMO's not on your level, I mean, this is the beautiful thing about competitive sports, especially boxing, this one on one, which I think is the purest form of competition, boxing in MMA, is that you can show that as great as a fighter is like, people could watch the TFVMO fight and have no idea how good

he is, and I would say go watch the Barbosa fight, go watch the Lumberchank, go fight, go watch many of his fights, that guy was an excellent fighter, still is an excellent fighter, but there are levels, and the mindset that you have, I am the best fighter in the world, period is what allows you to beat guys like that, that and the hard work. For sure, like I said, I'm God giving in, I work super hard in, I think the biggest

thing that I don't get credit for is my discipline, like I feel like I'm very disciplined when it comes down to making the sacrifices and making life changes that I need to make in order to be 100% on fight night, and I feel like a lot of people don't give me, that I mean, they don't know, they don't know, they see, you know, I be seeing like fans tweet and they're like, oh, get off Twitter, I'll get off social media, but I'll be on social media

like, right at that, I just let the gym, like, what's the problem, like, I'm just talking

my talk on social media right now, like, let me live, like, well, people are always looking

to criticize, but there's no way you can have the kind of performances that you're having and not be locked in, it's not possible, especially over 12 rounds, because you know better than anybody alive, that the kind of discipline that it takes to be in the kind of condition

“that you have to be in, to fight 12 hard rounds, they put on a virtue woe so performance,”

so it's like, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. It's crazy though, everybody, like, like, y'all loaded performance, because y'all got the C at that day, but like, for me, when I'm in the gym, it still levels that I feel like I haven't got to show them to the world, like, I kind of only really shown like 70% of what I really could do, and I feel like, with that performance, it was just like, okay, this is, this is like

an okay day in a gym, like, okay day, in a like, my best day in a gym, like I have, like, days in a gym, I'm like, I don't know how I just did that, but I'm just, like, on points, so it was good day though. The thing is, you're getting better, you know, that's the thing, it's like, those days that you have in the gym, and there's performance, and the mindset that you have, like,

it's still, not saying, I did it all, not seeing, okay, virtual, so performance, still

to being an all-time great, and it's a matter of maintaining that over years and years

that is so difficult for people, and discipline is where that comes in, enthusiasm and motivation is great in the beginning, a lot of people have enthusiasm and motivation in the beginning, but it's, when you've been a champ for five years, six years, you know, the grind of it all the 12 week training camp away from your family, people don't think about that.

“Yeah, that's why I'm kind of glad that I got all of the things that happened in my career,”

where I had a little trials and tribulations happened early, so when I had my hand problem and I had a fight where I didn't perform as well as I wanted to, it kind of got me prepared for now, and that was like, I'm 100% on top of my game, like you're not going to be able to beat me without me being fully prepared, like you're going to have to be a bad do to come in and ring and beat me, because I just don't see it happening with none of these

work. Well, it's like how far you've gone, like you started off at five and been intensely focused for all these years. How old are you now? 28, 28, 28, which is prime. Yeah, that's it, like 28 to like 34 is the best year, but then again, you look at Terrence. I mean, he's at an age where a lot of people say it's over and he put on the performance of his career against Kenel. I don't know how he do it. He's like a different human being, like, he's so smart. If I'm honest,

he is like the reason, I'm not going to say he the reason why I am who I am today, but he bought my game from like where was that to like a very high level and he don't even realize like he done it. Like me just being in the gym able to watch him and pick up on like the little things that he's doing, his bad days, his good days is I'm seeing everything and like when he come out there

“or fight night, how prepared and how ready, how confident, like honestly that dude kind of,”

he put me into a whole different world to now to where I'm like, oh, I can't, I can't get anybody. I can't get in with Terrence Crawford and if I could spar with him, I can, how you going hurt me? How you doing? How you doing? I'm in a ring with the best fighter in the world, like one of the best of all time. Yeah, one of the best of all and one of the most versatile of all time because that's a guy who switches up left, right, and nothing he can't do in the box area. Nothing. Nothing

he can't do and the way he sets people up, we were talking during the podcast I did with him. He did this one sneaky thing where he was throwing a straight left and then Kenelow would go to counter and he would hook it right off of the punch. Like, on the extension, Kenelow would lean back to Kenelow and Bob, you can catch him on the chin, you can see it. It's like, oh my God,

that's pretty. I've never seen him throw that punch until Kenelow does, that's the crazy part.

Being in the gym with another guy who's an all-time great pound for pound best, that is so valuable and so many guys don't like that because they don't want to be the second best. Oh, they don't want to be in there with someone who's as good as them. You know what I mean? Like, iron sharpens iron. For sure. And for you to be a young guy who have a guy's it terraces with 10 years old in you? Yeah. Have a guy who's further down the path and be able to

see him and absorb all that, that's better than any coach of the world. Yeah, but it's been going on for years. Like, it ain't like just a new thing. People don't understand like, and I was 19 years old, I was around Terrence. I was playing home in 2K. We're going to the gym, argue like he really wanted a most competitive person as I ever met in my entire life, but

“you have to be. I just never like, for me, I just know for a fact, my game has up because of that”

dude. Yeah, it has to. It's also, you're seeing this level that is so high in boxing. Like, you can compare it. You can go back and look at Sugar Ray Leonard. You can look at Perna Whittaker. You look at all these guys. And you can compare it to Terrence to the people that the pundits sit down and say, all time great. Terrence is unquestionally, it all might be better than them. He might be, he might do respect to the legends. I agree with you. He is that good. He's not good.

I feel like there's a thing that was happening before the Canelo fight where a lot of people were

sort of dismissing his previous opponents and saying he never beat anybody and Canelo's another

Man, it seemed like that's the thing in boxing to where it's like, if they don't know the opponents,

“if you're not fighting somebody that's like a bigger name, they make it seem like the opponents”

is not good. That's like not true. Because at the end of the day, it's low level opponents that don't get the type of shine that the high level opponents get, but they will beat the high level opponent. And are they really high level opponents at this point? Right. Well, there's high level

and then there's the elite of the elite, right? Yeah, for sure. There's always that. There's like

some guys that if they're in, like I always said that about Roy Jones during his prime, like everybody said Roy Jones didn't find anybody. Not true. Roy Jones just made everybody look like they weren't in anybody. Because he was that. He was so elite. Yeah. And that's kind of the problem that Terrence was facing up until the Canelo fight. Because when a guy goes up two A classes all the way up to 60 A. Right. I mean, starts his career 35. He was crazy. Last fight, he fights at 68 and then puts on

a virtue woe so performance, virtual shutout. Maybe Canelo won one round. Yeah. You know, I mean, then everybody has to shut the fuck up. Yeah. He shut everybody up because you had to see like he used to say that he wouldn't fight Canelo. And he used to be like, Oh, Canelo's too big. I wouldn't fight him. Then like it's like out of nowhere, he had to change him on. Then like he just went and attacked the situation. It was a bad situation to be in. Like you're going to go fight somebody

two way classes higher, punch hard. Yeah. You're going to the go do that. So for me, he just do what is amazing. He's amazing. And another amazing example for young fighters, you know,

incredibly disciplined, never at a shape and has all those faculties. He doesn't do anything. All his

faculties intact and he's leaving the game with a hundred percent, no undefeated record, no questions asked, fought everybody. There's no online and up to fight him right now. He's older and he did it all and he came out unscathed. Bye bye. That's my biggest goal. It's a perfect goal. My biggest goal is to lead boxing. And when I lead boxing, be good enough, well not good enough, great enough financially to where I don't ever have to get back in the boxing ring. Like I don't

want to be one of them fighters. That's like need boxing. Like I hate that like that's my biggest pay p like long as I'm having fun with boxing. I want to be done it. But once it's not fun no more,

I don't want to have to let. Oh, we got this 20 million dollar pay day. I need it. I don't want to

feel that way. So like Floyd. Yeah. Like this situation of Floyd's in right now. This is crazy.

“I was having a conversation with a friend of mine right now and he's like, why is Floyd fighting again?”

I go because he needs money. He was like, what? How? Floyd made more money than anybody ever. It's like, yeah, but he spent more money than everybody ever. Yeah. I try to say out of that because I don't know like the real situation with Floyd because I'm not really in tune on it. But I only think with Floyd. This is kind of weird to me. It's like he loves boxing so much. Like you got to actually be around him. Like he wanted to be in the gym. He wanted to like,

so it would be hard for me to just believe like, okay, he's just day broke. Like, I don't know. It's hard to believe that. Well, if he's not dead broke, he's definitely got issues. Yeah. Right. So he's got a bunch of lawsuits where he was money. You know, Logan Paul says he was a money. He was money for some other things. I don't know. I'm with you. I don't know. But it's also, it's like, I like a guy like Andre Ward. I like a guy who goes out on top and,

you know, they offered Andre a ton of money to come back and fight Canelo after Canelo be covalve.

“Yeah. And he was like, you know what? I think I serve boxing better as a commentator and a spokesperson”

for the sport. I made plenty of money undefeated to division world champion, Olympic gold medalist. Bye-bye. Let's hit all faculties intact. No worries about his brain health and everything like that. That's the way to go out. Andre Ward is another dude who helped my career. Yeah. He helped my career alive too. He, um, if I had the, if I need to, if I need something, right? Let's say I need something then. I need to figure out how to do it or what to do in a situation with weight or whatever it

is when it comes to boxing. If I'm calling Andre Ward, he gonna get you the best explanation. Like I don't all the guys like he explains things from detail like he's gonna detail in and make

a kid so he had another guy. I just wasn't around him enough in a gym as I wasn't around

“but. But like Andre Ward, my favorite fighter is an amateur like I can't really. Yes. Well,”

most people don't know that Andre Ward fought most of his career with one arm. Yeah. Which is crazy. But it's crazy. That one arm is his best arm. He's left handed forever or so. But it's still crazy. It's still crazy. Think about all the guys he beat and he beat them with a left hand. Yeah.

And then finally got shoulder surgery and then how to right hand. It's still still kind of

fucked up. It's not 100%. Do you know the misconception about his career? I feel like when he beat Kovalev, people don't realize how good Kovalev was. Oh, he was good in the day. Like he was insanely like pocket power boxing, length. He had everything a great jab, a great right hand. Yeah. And for Andre Ward to go beat that dude, that put the stamp on like his career. And got dropped. Yes. Got dropped in hurt and recovered and still won. I mean, that was big.

“Yeah, Kovalev people see Kovalev when he lost it. Can I low? He was already kind of”

washed. Yeah. He was already washed. He's been drinking a lot. Yeah. There was a lot of, you know, a lot of these fighters they get to like we're saying. It's a staining that will that drive that discipline that focus. It's hard to do. But if you go back when he had it, man, when he was in his prime and he was a world champion. He was a fucking everybody, a man. He was scary. Yeah. He was a killer. Scary right hand. Woo. Yeah. It was a pistol. I go back and watch him too. He had another guy

that I go back and watch. Yeah. Like the way he keeps his distance. He keeps his distance. Really good. You got that Eastern European like I'm guys are really good boxes like when I watch them, I'm like, okay, like I love watching before. People's amazing. I love it. He's got such an amazing style. I mean, him, usic, Loma Chenko's kind of a cat. That's a fight. I'll really wish what happened between you and him, man. Was you ever talking about that? I miss myself up. I kind of did this to

myself, so I understand why a lot of fighters wouldn't fight me. A lot of fighters wouldn't fight me because I was part of them. I miss myself up. Like I when I was trying to spark him at that time,

I never thought it would be a day of me and I'm fighting. Like I didn't think that far down

online. I really was just thinking he was the best fighter in boxing. No more in power for power. I want to be able to go get the ring with him and see what like how I can do. Like they told me, they wasn't even going to pay me for the sparring. I'm like, okay, I'm cool. I don't want to get paid. I'm just here to get the ring with Loma Chenko. But yeah, it's later, yeah, the fight. Like go. How the sparring went? I don't, I don't, I don't want this nobody in sparring, so I can't say that.

We don't have to do so. I keep it real with the sparring. I felt like I was out boxing him, but I also knew the level he was on was like his condition. And that's when I, it made me like, okay, I got to be in like tip-top conditioning because the first day we spar, we did six rounds. I felt like it was like, okay, I got out boxing. The next time we spar, he made me do 12 straight. Real. So he made me do 12 straight. For the first eight, I'm good. Like I'm, I'm good

for eight. But like the last four rounds, I want to say he started like picking up the pace and he didn't get all of for me, but he got the better other last four rounds. And you feel like it was because of fatigue a little bit. Yeah, it was for sure because of fatigue. But it wasn't like the skills like skillfully, I felt like I was the better fighter. Like I felt like my range and my distance and my speed was kind of better than his. But like from a standpoint of being in shape and

throwing more punches, I felt like he was kind of, but he was getting ready for his fight. I was

“getting ready for my fight too, so. Well, that's a very valuable learning experience, right?”

Yeah. I mean, better to learn it than than to learn it in a fight. Yeah, but for a throw, it messed me up because now it's like, if I'm a little bit chankled and I know he was what 126 pounds at the time. He was a kid. Now I see him all grown up. He bigger, stronger. And I see what he was doing as a kid. I probably be like, why would I test the water with him? Like, I wouldn't really want to see that guy. That's not the guy I would

want to see. So that's funny. Um, so you think that those sparring matches with the reason why you

never got to fight with him? Yeah, for sure. I was surprised to you for me. Honestly,

but he made it seem like he kind of got off on me, but honestly, I felt like

I was the better fighter. Well, Taylor's a very headstrong guy. Yeah. He's a very tough, very confident guy. I mean, look, when he beat Loma Chankled, that was a standout performance. He had that piston jab, man. Oh, he was sure. Oh, I was in time before my fight. Well, I did just think he knew that Loma Chankled was a ghost. He's so hard to hit and just he came out explosive. Yeah, it's so good. And Loma Chankled and had a speed to like,

get his respect. Mm-hmm. Like, I feel like Teele was kind of faster. He knew like, from a speed standpoint, he was going to use it to his advantage. Also, Teele was a lot bigger, and he was dangerous. Like, he was throwing danger with every punch. Even that jab had danger behind it. It was crazy. I felt like he was strong when I was fighting. Oh, everybody's fucked.

“Everybody think that he was it, but I'm like, man, I think a lot. It was some shots. Like,”

I would catch on the glove and I'd be like, I don't know what you're doing. You're turning in, Rob. Don't cut the silence. Well, look at the size of that motherfucker. I mean, he's jacked, and he looks great. He's right. He's just, but, you know, he's not done. And a fight like that with you is a wake-up call for a guy like him, too. It was like, man, I got a tiny bit of shit. It's 50/50 because sometimes they can play with your mental. Mm-hmm. So some, some guys don't

be the same at the getting a virus in front of the world like that. Like, well, he's come back before, like the combo says fight. Composes dropped him early. And that was a, that was a crazy upset. Yeah, but it was different because in this instinct, he got really embarrassed. What can both say is it was like, it was a 50/50. He felt like he won the fight. He left filling that way. But getting dropped by combos is nobody saw that comment.

“Nah, I didn't see that coming either. I ain't lie. I think it was like second round, too, right?”

It was a first round, but it wasn't fighting dumb. I never seen T.O. even fight like that either.

He went in there, like, just trying to not come out from the first round. I think after the Loma Chanko fight, he felt like this dude is not on my level. On the best fight in the world. You know, that could fuck with your head, too. Overconfidence can fuck with your head. Yeah, you know, we're trying to, like, we're, I be trying to, like, stay away from that, like, because I'm very, like, confident in myself. So I'd be scared of being too confident. So I'd be trying

to, like, make guys bigger in my brain, like, oh, this guy is, he's the truth. So that's smart. Yeah, I got to, like, I don't have no choice because I'm very confident. We've all seen fighters that go in unprepared and think that a fighter is not on their level. And then that guy puts a outcome out, Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson, perfect example. 42 to one underdog. And it was a

perfect storm because Buster's mom just died. And Buster was always one of those guys that was known

to be super talented in the gym, super talented, but not dedicated. It just not driven. Just didn't make the most of his talent. But for that one fight, he was like, I'm fight Mike Tyson. I'm not scared of him. My mom is dead. I'm putting in the fucking work. And he came out throwing that jab with the hook off the jab. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And it was a totally different Buster Douglas, like the best Buster Douglas we've ever seen ever. Yeah. That final combination when he knocked

Mike Tyson out, dude, I didn't even watch that fight live. A friend of mine told me about it. I was like, are you fucking serious? He told me at the gas station. He's like, Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? And then I went home and watched it. And even while I knew that Buster Douglas had won, I expected Mike Tyson to get up and kill him.

“I was like, I can't believe this is happening for sure. That's how much of it upset that was.”

Yeah, that was definitely one of the biggest I've said. I think I don't know because I wasn't during that time. But from what I've seen, it just looked like Mike didn't expect him to be that good, like it was a shocker. I think it was a shocker for everybody. Yeah. Well, that's but that's boxing. That's what could happen to this one. I don't see that happening plenty of times. Honestly, it'd be some guys that I see in a gym that I'm like, bro, if you do that stuff on

fight night, bro, you'll probably be championing that a world. I guess a lot of gym fighters who really got talent, but yeah. When on bright lights come on, a lot of fighters be kind of different. And what do you think that is? I think it's pressure. I think it's nerves. I think it's like, it's a lie. It's a lie. Because I know I felt it. Like I felt it from on Facebook or on too. I felt pressure. I felt all of that kind of stuff. But I'm too tough. Like I know my meant to

wake on. It's me at that person at the end of the day. My life for your life and I'm a

that I see in the gym and I'm like, man, I don't understand how you don't perform like this one.

Under the lights. This always guys like that. There's always guys that are potential world

champions in the gym. And, you know, some people bank on them and some, you know, you go, this guy just needs a mental coach, needs something to get him over that hump. But it's always interesting to me. Because what is the difference between a guy who could just walk out there on fight that day and perform at 100% of his ability versus a guy who gets dwarfed by the moment. The moment comes. The big pressure. Yeah. It's all mental. It's all in your head. Yeah. What you

thinking and what you believe in and the things that's going on in your brain is what's going to come out like, I'm already telling myself, like I said, I tell myself, it's either me or him. So

my life or your life and one of us got to go. Yeah. One of us got to go. But what do you

think is going on in the, I mean, everybody experiences pressure, everybody experiences nerves. But what is it about fighters that are so talented that let that overcome them versus fighters? Oftentimes, there may be not even as talented, but they rise to the occasion when those lights are on. When those lights are on, there are fighters that fight better. Like, sometimes they look shit in the gym and then when those bright lights are on. I had moments like that. I had moments where

I'm like, I feel bad in the gym. I don't know what I had this camp. This was a horrible camp.

“And then the fight night coming on like, one point. Well, you know, that's what they said about”

Ali when he fought George Foreman. Yeah. They said he looked terrible in the gym and everybody's nervous about them, but he had a strategy. I think with like, some fighters is fear. Like, I think it's fear of like losing a fear of the negative happening. And I think with some fighters, they allow fear to control them as in some other fighters who, if I get fear for them, going to attack my fears, like, I'm not scared to even go and give it a try. Whatever happened is going to happen at

the end of the day. It's already already so. Is this something that you built up over time? Or is it something someone imparted on you when you were young and you embraced it? Like, how did you learn to have that champion mindset? I think this is why to say, but I think it's really my little brothers and my little sisters, but really my little brothers. I used to go to amateur tournaments. And if I lose, and I got to come on to my little brothers, Ode, Ome, and it's like,

“you got to come home and they remember the name of the opponent that beat you when they were”

throw it in a face. Oh, don't make me go get Joseph or Dorno. That's a real God. I beat me back in the day. Shout out to Joseph or Dorno. I used to have to hit that in the house. And now I still be with them. So it's like, I know I got to go home to my little brothers and see them at these fights. And I had that in the back of my head. I'm not coming home to them. That's crazy. We got the win. Like, they got his no leg. Did you tell your little brothers that they

do that for you? No, I don't even think I ever said it to them. It just was so natural because I

used to always get a fight with them and they used to always bring up a opponent that beat me and I'm like,

now if I beat everybody, they can't say it to them. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Well, because different fighters develop different ways of rising to the occasion, different ways of maintaining a championship's mindset. And some of them, they learn from their coach, you know, custom auto famously trained Tyson and even hypnotized them and told them that you don't exist only the task exists. And he had by Tyson just like, I'm fucking machine when he would get into that

“ring. I think shout out to my grandfather too because my grandfather is my coach and like his”

energy during a fight week. Like, they only realized, like, it wasn't even just the coaching that he was doing. It's like the energy that he kind of gave off to me. It reminded me of me when like, I was a kid and me and him would go to amateur tournaments and like, he just sold like, amped up and like, ready and like, it kind of brought on to me and it kind of got me like, ant up at some like, okay, I got, I got, I got to stand up and it's from my grandfather. I got to

I'm kind of a choice. Oh, wow. But he's definitely a great coach. So family is a big thing for you. Yeah, family is everything for me. Like, I enjoy spending time with my family. Like, I'm not like a lot of these boxes. Like, with all due respect to them, they like the fiend,

I'm vacating my family. I'll go chill with my family and I don't like doing stuff. Like, I enjoy

spending time with my daughter. That's great. Like, I'm not like them guys. Like, that's so smart. It's so smart because all that other shit, just drains your bank account, distracts you from your goals, gets in the way of things. It's like, when I was the kid, I used to want the fiend. I used to be like, I want to be famous. I want horse everybody to know me. But it's like, once you get it, it's like, ah, I don't like this. I don't like this. Like, you go places. People pulling it

phones out and like, it's weird trying to record you like, bro, why are you, I'm just a regular person.

“Like, that's how I feel like everybody bleeds. We all the same. We all human right. So I kind of move”

with that kind of door prices and I feel like a lot of people don't move with that like, especially people in my position. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you can get inflated. Your head can get screwy. It's like, you got to balance two things at the same time. One, you are the elite of the elite. You are a world champion and one of the pound for pound best to ever do it. And then on top of that, you're just a human being. Yes. And we're all just human beings. But what we like, what people love about watching

championship calver fighters and championship performances in any sport is watching just a regular human do something extraordinary. And that gives us inspiration. Like, when I watch a great fight, I feel better for the rest of the day. Like, why go to bed? I feel great. Like, I watch that final one to bed. I was like, whoa, I felt great. I text Josh right after, right after it was like,

“right after it was happening. And that's how we got in touch. Josh dooping, shout out to Josh.”

Shout out to Josh. But I remember, I felt very good. I might do that was extraordinary. And then next thing you don't wear on the phone. Definitely was a great um, great night at boxing. I enjoyed it. I'm, I'm just glad to be here. Like, all glory to God. I'm glad to be here. I've been here. I've been here. I've been telling people like, I'm the best. I'm better than these guys. You have

but you needed that breakout. You needed that breakout performance. And the problem is,

everybody knew you were so good. It was hard to get someone to sign up for that breakout performance. Because for a breakout performance, you need another dude who's had breakout performances that everybody respects and knows. Like Tia Fimo. Yeah, that's right. That was my main reason in fighting. I'm telling, I watched the mentality on square. I looked. I said, we fight you know.

“We fight you know. I want to fight him. He, he looked really good. He looked really good.”

That time square card was weird. He was the best fighter on the car. A hundred percent. No question. It looked like everybody was playing at safe on that card. Yeah, did, it did. Like Devon Haney, the Devon Haney fight was odd. I learned what I learned from that card. I feel like I felt like don't fighters didn't have enough adrenaline pumping. Like I feel like Ryan, I know when he got in the ring. His adrenaline couldn't have been like too high because

it was like sparring. Like it was like not a lot of people there. It wasn't like that much pressure. You could hit everything somebody is saying, I know Ryan hurt me all night. Like he had to hear me. I was cheering him on. Like tell him, my man, throw the hook, throw the hook, throw the hook. But that was when he fought Roli, right? Yeah. Yeah, that was a wake-up call too. Like that was another fight where people did not expect Roli to be Ryan. Yeah, I'd be throwing off out of it. I didn't

expect it either. That was when one of the fights where I kind of like vouch for Ryan. I'm like, man, you got skills. He's a skillful fighter. Then he got in there. I don't know what he was doing. Like I didn't understand what was happening. You know, it's one of them things where he has the fight with Devon. He beats Devon, gets popped, you know, for whatever he was on, Austrian. And then there's like he's got a long time off. There's a lot of people mad at him.

There's a lot of people, you know, which is such an unfortunate thing if you think about his performance

against Devon because that was incredible. Yeah, but the problem is he got caught. He got caught.

So like, I don't know, like, for me personally, if you got caught, it's like, I can't really me. I can't give you the credit for that. Right. I don't, I don't give him credit for that. They would that night with Devon. Yeah, but steroids don't help you land punches. They help you recover and training. They help you train a little harder. They might give you a little bit more power, but that left hook was on point. Yeah, but that little bit

of a more power probably was enough to hurt Devon because if you really watched the fight and pay attention to the fight, and people might not agree with me on this, but I feel like Devon was

most of the like boxing match, other, but the moments where Ryan was so loud and like everybody

got to see him get hurt and knock down until we're like, I just feel like Devon, if he didn't get dropped by the punches, he could have won that fight. But he did get dropped. That's the problem. And also, I didn't think the ice to ring was helping his power. Yeah, I mean, what's his last fight against Delgado? Who's his last opponent? Who's Ryan? Who's the guy who's Mario, Barrios, that's right. Barrios is a guy that was like tailor-made for a guy like Ryan.

Like he's a tough dude. He's very durable. Takes a good shot, but he's not that fast and Ryan was super fast in that fight. Yeah. All right, look like he looked real good. Yeah, he looked good. He looked

good. He looked good. And it wasn't just like, because people think when I'm like, I want

I'm saying like, oh, well, you don't know whether she's in the night. I'm not saying that in the aspect of his boxing skills. Like he clearly got boxing skills. Like you can clearly see Ryan know how to move his feet. You know how to keep his distance. You just long length. He could clearly box. I've been saying this for years. Yeah, he box is very well. And also, he showed that he has a right hand too. Yeah, that was surprising. Yeah. And he used it like the whole night. Like he just can't throw

“in it. So that was very surprising. But I mean, of course, if you want to be a complete fighter,”

he had to develop a right hand and start using it more because that left hook is just world class. Yeah, and he was not only like throwing a straight. He was throwing it around a guard. Mm-hmm. That was kind of a beautiful. Yeah, it was nice. That was a beautiful performance for him. Has it been a talk about YouTube matching up? Yeah. Yeah. But I got to say everything got to make sense. Like people don't understand that. I walk around in my 40s. So if I'm walking around in my 40s, I don't think like

me going to 147. Like when I fight that 147, I think that would be my last weight class. Like I'm all career. Like I don't see myself going past 147 ever. But I'm 28 right now. I got a long way to go. So I don't plan on moving up 47 no time soon. So if the fight happens at whatever weight class that I say, then I'm cool with it. Can he make 40 again? He said he could. He didn't want to come out and say like, let's fight at 140. He said that. So if he said that is like, okay,

you could make the weight then let's do it. What was the dramatic fight? Was that 140? That fight was at 136. That's right. And then he gave them a rehydration clause too. Yeah, 10 pounds up very smart. Very smart. Very smart, right? I mean, it was smart. It was in that situation. But um, I mean, I'll just feel like with the rehydration clause at that time when you already bring somebody down to like a weight class that they having full in years is like you could have

not put the rehydration clause. Like it wasn't necessary at that point in time. I think it wasn't necessary. I think it helped a lot. It helped a lot. If you, if you can only rehydrate 10 pounds and you know, he's way bigger than that. Ryan's big guy. He looked weak on fight night. Like he looked in three weeks. But I guess those dollars that that paycheck was just too tempting. Yeah, I don't

think about that move. I never understood it because if I'm Ryan Garcia and I got a big name

and a sport and all that I kind of stuff, why would I accept everything into somebody else's favorite?

“I think because that's the only way you get the fight, you know. Well, this is the same thing”

when Canelo fought Floyd, right? Floyd made him go down to 152. Remember? But it wasn't a rehydration clause. Um, was it? Nope. No, it wasn't. Even if it's not. If it wasn't a rehydration clause, nobody knows. Well, that's good. But if you make a guy get down to 152, even if you give him a rehydration clause, like that's kind of drained something out of your tank. But is it right? Because my question is, wasn't they fighting at 154? Wasn't Canelo fighting at 154? Normally. Yeah. But it was

a big dropout. But don't you know that last, you're not a big weight cutter, but if you were that last two pounds is death. Oh, for sure. When you're already drained out, because he was a big guy for 154, and to drain out and get all the way down to 152, that had to be hard. He didn't look the same on five day. Do you think so? Well, I think Floyd was just a virtual show that night. I mean, Floyd, I don't think Floyd looks so good that night. That night, I don't think if he was

“154, 160, I don't think he would be fully. I think you're probably right, but I also think Floyd”

was smart to get him to down to 152. For sure, the business. Yeah, it's like every angle you can

clause. I could out of here with that. Well, we got to understand too, right? Because I get

Floyd in that instincts. If a guy is going to blow up to, let's say what? Actually, would you just do me an Ryan Garcia for example? Okay. I'm going to blow up like 148. He's going to blow up 168 to 170. Now it's like you in a ring with somebody that is like 20 pounds bigger than you. And Floyd still allowed, can I look to get big? Because he got big, got the getting down to 152. So it's like, I kind of fill it in a way like I understand it. Now the rehydration clause is kind

of crazy, but I will only do a rehydration clause for fighters if I go up to 147 pounds. Because I'm not a 147 pound or so, but I fight at their weight class, where they're comfortable with it, just make it easy for them, like I don't. Well, the thing about a fighter like you is it's just difficult to find big names. I mean, if Jervante fights again, that's a big fight if you, but that would probably be at 135, which you could probably still make easy, right? Easy.

Yeah. So you have fights in 135 and fights in 140, but it's just going to be hard to get someone to step up. That is going to be that big, paper view selling fight. Yeah. That's the problem. That is the problem. You're too good. That's the problem. You're too good. Somebody told me before I went pro before it is like, you're going to have a hard time in the pros. I don't tell you.

“Yeah. But I understand it now. Do you remember your first profile? You remember what it felt like?”

It felt like a whole new experience. Really? Yeah. How so? I've been when I was in the amateurs, God wasn't as like dirty as the professional is like, you don't get introduced into dirty boxing until you turn professional.

Didn't you get headbutt in your first life? Yeah, but I mean, that's what your purpose

is. Not an accidental headbutt. That's what kind of make me say, okay, I understand. This is a whole different atmosphere. It's not the same amateur in the pros and a lot of guys from the amateurs don't adjust to the pros as well as ideas. Well, it's all about styles, right? Like, there's some guys who have styles that are just much better for a point fighting. You got to develop a lot of things like punch, placement, like punching hard is really a real thing in the pros. Like, you

“got to have something to make somebody respect you. That's why when I hear people say, like,”

"I got pillow hands." I'm like, "Yeah, I clearly must not be watching." Who's saying that? Well, it'd be a lot of people. They say, "I got pillow hands." No, you just fight smart. Yeah, I don't understand it because it's like, if I had pillow hands, right, why guys don't just go in there and just knock me out like, if I'm fighting somebody with pillow hands, I'm just going to put my shield up and just swing for the fences because they care me like,

right? I don't understand why nobody want to do that. If I got pillow hands. You don't have pillow hands. It's nonsense, talk. What you have is a boxing intelligence where you know when to hit full blast and when to just touch them up and crack them a little bit. Yeah. And the accumulation of blows, the frustration, the mental confusion that a fighter gets when they can't hit you and you can hit them and then you start ramp it up and then you start tuning them up.

I mean, the people that are saying that just don't understand what you're doing. Yeah, for sure. What you're doing is just perfect. You're fighting intelligent.

“Yeah. And that's what I love. I love watching a guy just outbox the fuck out of somebody. I love it.”

Like I said that, that like you were doing this like half-speed jab and then from right there, and you could tell Tio was like, Jesus Christ. You could tell he was confused. It was so fast. It was so fast. But that accumulation of blows over time and his corner, it was crazy. Did you listen to the fight? Did you go out watching back and watch it? His corner is like, you got to hit him. It's so crazy. No, because like, what I see with his corner is like,

he been doing this. Like his dad been getting a ring and giving him some type of instructions.

Uh-huh. But Tio has been always so good to where the instructions he's giving them really does

not matter because he's in control. He's winning these fights. He's doing what he's supposed to do. But that night he did need, he did a real coach. He needed something better than that. Yeah, well, not that his dad's on a real coach, but he needed some tactical advice. He needed some instruction on what this guy's doing to you and you got to switch it up entirely.

he went in there and said, like, where's your power bro? He's used to Tio's power showing up

and the amazing things that Tio does in the box ring. He's used to that. But whenever you're going

to get somebody who's on a different level also, you got to be well prepared within like a game plan. Yeah. All that kind of stuff. And I didn't see no game plan. Did you? Did you don't

“anybody there was his camp or asking anybody after the fight? Like, what was his game plan?”

What did he think was going to be different? No, I didn't actually. I just I'd be interested to know that. Yeah, I do too, but I did running some method to fight. I ran into Tio in my own back. So was it cool? Yeah, it was cool. It was actually a good conversation. I felt bad that he was by his self, his manager kind of cleaned it up. But during the moment that I seen him in the back, he would buy a self. So I didn't like that.

Yeah. I didn't like that. No, that's a bummer. Yeah. But I mean, they said it was with him all night. So respect to them. So maybe he just just caught him in a moment when he was alive. Yeah. Yeah, that's the last thing you want to see. He's a dude. He gets a band and after a loss. Like, oh my god. And then you got to go back to camp with those assholes. I don't even like how the sport is kind of treating him now. Like, everybody act like he just

is terrible fighter, but oh, that's crazy. I don't understand it when you got to give him respect. Like, this dude actually stepped up and fought a guy that nobody else wants to fight. So exactly. He did it. He got in the ring and he laid it on the line and it didn't go his way, but he did. He tried. The thing is, I don't know if that guy's ever going to separate from his father. You know, I don't know if that guy was going to bring in another world-class trainer that maybe

would be able to recognize some things that he's doing that he could prove upon. You know, it's so crazy. During the fight, he had a coach at his corner and I know the coach, I don't know, he's from Florida. I want to say his coach was telling him some good advice. I don't think he heard him or was listening to him, but he was telling him some good advice. Really? Yeah. I don't, I don't want to say what their advice is because I got future opponents.

I got to meet him. Well, someone's going back and listen. Yeah. I can't tell what their advice was, but he was giving him some good advice. Interesting. Yeah, it's hard. Those father-son teams

there's always, there's a lot of conflict with those. Yeah, because I don't watch it over the years,

I feel like that's like staying on top of the fighter and they like, they make it,

“they make it less fun. And I feel like that's why I think my granddad is one of the best coaches”

because he allowed me to love this word of boxing myself. Like when I had my football games and my pot won the games, he came to my game, watched them tear it down and supported me. But as soon as I lost, I'm going to feel crying. I'm like, ah, he comes up to me. He say, you know, in boxing, you only could lose because of yourself. And I'm looking, I'm like, what do you mean by like, oh, that is true because like you're the one in a boxing ring doing

the boxing then, um, when I lost that football game, he was basically trying to say it was my

coach for. So like, he just allowed me to choose boxing though, like he, he always supported me when

I did other things, but he kind of like, he ain't just stay on top of me like how me with it, like, he just took me to the gym. He got a lot of young man become his own man. Yeah, he allowed me to choose and I think on fathers and the sport don't allow, they signs to choose it too, like they're choosing their foot on. Right. And a lot of them are overbearing in the corner, it becomes a problem. Yeah. And they kind of be, coaches should listen to what I'm about to say.

The father coaches, there has to be a difference between a father and a coach. So when you're

“coaching a son, you have to be a coach in a boxing ring, instead of the father, because when”

you're the father, they're going to reciprocate things wrong and I feel like what coach is, when you coach in, they can hear you a lot better. Mm-hmm. It's almost over the street, also this school of baseball, just on the streets and then I hope that it's stimmt. Oh, no, garney, like this street is so my savings, you know, you know, that's all right. Yeah, exactly. Like this street is so deep street app,

which I just understand. Egalobstudium, job, or on the street, and I feel like I'm not going to be like a coach. Stoe and he's leading. Save. With this street.

Gross Britannian. Yeah, well there's also the relationship of the father and the son,

with the father once a son to listen to him. Listen to me, I'm your father. You go out and you're going to do this, you know, fuck off me. Yeah, fuck off me, dad. And you're doing more harm to your son, dude. Yeah. He's actually doing good for himself. Well, especially not giving him technical advice, like that is where he needed real technical advice, because there was a lot of shit you were doing that he just did not have an answer. He didn't understand.

Yeah. He didn't understand. He didn't clean up his bad habits. That's the thing with these fighters. A lot of them got bad habits and things that they do when I'm going to expose it. So well, I mean, the environment that you came up in and having a guy like Terrence and having other elite fighters that you train with all the time, that's so important. It's so invaluable. Because all that shit gets exposed in the gym. And that's the way you work on it. Yeah,

that's the way you work on it. If you ain't work on it in the gym, one fight night is going to be exposed. This is no offense or what's about it. Yeah. How important do you think an amateur career is? Like, do you think a guy like Loma Chanko, maybe would have been an even better boxer if he didn't have so many amateur fights and went into the pros at an earlier age?

“I think an amateur career is important because you got to have the experience.”

But I'm seeing different to where like guys have developed a lot more in the gym. Like I don't see in guys staying a gym, not go to tournaments. And then get better and better and then I don't know where they go to one tournament and then you'll be like, who the fuck is this guy? Right. He come from how did he get so good? And I think like developing in the gym is like the biggest thing, like who you sparring, who are you training with, all of that stuff really

matters the most. The amateur experience is cool. Like, oh, Loma Chanko, but if Loma Chanko had different things around him in the gym, I feel like he probably would have been a better fighter. What's also already good? With Loma Chanko, it's so crazy because he really should have been

fighting at one twenty six. I mean, really was never a 140 pound fighter. Yeah, he's a small guy.

Yeah, I don't understand that. I don't, I don't understand that because I think he kind of turned his career in a way to where like the way people look at him. Who don't look at him the same as they should because he was really, really good. But he was out of weight class that he really wasn't supposed to be at. So, of course, you're going to have like a harder time with the bigger guys. Right, like teo. Yeah, like teo. Yeah, that was a perfect example. Teo was huge and

that fight. Yeah, he looks so much bigger than Loma Chanko. And just so dangerous that it, like, fuck, Loma Chanko strategy up. Because, you know, you got missiles coming at you from a giant dude. I mean teo's stacked. Yeah. And so, you got to think like, for those guys, I guess it's just about chasing the multiple world titles and the bigger money at the higher weight classes.

“Yeah, that's what, um, with Loma Chanko, though, he act like he wasn't really like super money”

hungry. So, I never really understood it. Same like he's been maybe, yeah, you write it by the,

he was chasing out of disputed. Yeah, undisputed in world titles. I feel like you got robbed in the Devin Haney fight though. Do you think that? To this day, yeah, I threw a thing. Yeah, I scored a fight for Loma Chanko. Yeah, I did too. I watched it three times in a row because I was like, what am I getting wrong here? Am I getting this wrong before I started talking about it? Yeah. And I was like, no, no, Loma Chanko should have won. Yeah, I thought Loma Chanko won. That was one of those

roles like, ooh, and I think that fight fucked with Devin Haney's head a little bit. Like, was that makes you feel like shit when you win a fight and everybody thinks that you lost the fight and you got like, then you have to carry that around with you everywhere, every like, Loma Chanko beat you, you're like, no, he didn't. Yeah, it's a mix of that. Yeah,

“it's a bit too bad. And then you got to get it back. I think and that fight, he really wasn't even”

finding best version of Devin because Devin was fighting at a weight class. He really shouldn't have been it. What was that fight of? Was that a 335? Yeah. Then Devin should have been at 140. At that time, he should have been at 140. He's too big for 35. Yeah. It's an interesting man, that balance of, we're all fucked up in MMA because MMA this, there's two few weight classes. And so there's giant gaps, like huge gaps, like at 185 to 205,

you know, 155 to 170. There's no weight classes in between. I mean, that's nuts. Yeah, that's insane. I agree. That means guys that's like little fighting bigger guys because it ain't enough weight classes for the NBA. So that sounds crazy. It's stupid. It's the one major complaint that I've had with the UFC for a decade. I was like, we need way more weight classes. And they they're like, nah, I want to keep it pure. These are the champs. It's only eight champs. Like, that's crazy.

around. I'm gonna watch some of it. It's a good one. I'm gonna watch it because I'm, I'm like,

like, loss, like, I'm not really in tune with like a lot of the UFC guys and the UFC people be kind of mad at me when I say boxing is better, but it's my sport. Of course, you're going to

“think it's better. It's what your life is based around. Of course. And if you talk to Max Holloway,”

he's going to say everything is better. Exactly. And they got good explanations. Like, I understand what they say, and what you could do is more like skills. You got to learn it in MMA, but for me, I just feel like boxing like that skill level and a talent for me, I like better. Well, there's no question. The skill level and the talent when it comes to punching is way better in boxing. You see some sloppy shit that people do in MMA with boxing, but you also have to think they're

thinking about takedowns, they're thinking about getting kicked, they're thinking about their

calves getting kicked out from under them, the legs getting kicked, the body getting kicked. So you're messing up there, punching everything. Knees, elbows. And then there's stuff that you do in boxing that you can't do in MMA because like your legs exposed. You know, like there's certain positions that you would throw punches in that a guy would just calf kick you. And you get

“hit with one of those and you're like, oh shit, and also your calf is numb and you're not moving”

good and your ankle doesn't work. Yeah. It's terrible, but that's the beauty of that sport, is that it's so diverse, but the beauty of boxing is that it's so concentrated on hand techniques, that the boxing techniques in in boxing are far superior than what you're going to see in MMA. You see a few guys in MMA that could make it as pro-boxers, but you don't see your level or, you know, or they can't be a lead level. No. You just know where you can. Impossible. No.

Yeah, they're doing it for long enough. Just like you don't see these elite MMA fighters that could compete in Gigietsu tournaments and win World Championships. It's very, very rare. The only way that happens is if they were a World Champion in Gigietsu before they got into MMA and they still have those skills at a very, very high level, then some of those guys can kind of compete in World Class levels, but what would you say is like the best skill in like, the MMA wrestling.

Wrestling, wrestling. I already know before I actually, because wrestlers can take everybody down, and if you get taken down, you're fucked. I want to learn how to wrestling. It's a great well. Terrence, show you how. Terrence, Terrence is like one of the only boxers that are like a back-eye fought in MMA, he could do very well. He would do very well. He would do very well. Some own wrestling, actually like USA team wrestling. He was kind of, he can wrestle. Yeah, he was kind

of he was good, he was good, he wasn't getting, he's not lost. Yeah, he knows what he's doing, and look, it's just one state title. Yeah, for sure. He's a true. Yeah, I want to learn how to wrestle. It's a good thing to know. It's a good thing, because it's a humbling thing. I feel like they just strongest people. Oh, yeah. Like I feel like when they kind of strength like real strength, yeah, their bodies are like strong-headed moves. Oh, it's a different thing. When they get a

hold of you, you feel like a child. Yeah. You just get ragdolled, like this is embarrassing. Yeah.

You know, that's the most important skill I feel, but every fight starts standing up.

You know, every round starts standing up. You know, at the beginning of the round, you're standing up again. So like I was going to take you down again. And in that transition, yeah, that's when you can catch someone. Yeah, I figured it out. Look, there's a lead fighters that aren't great wrestlers in MMA, like Alex Pereira, who's a two-division-world champion, but he's just a destructive kickboxer. Yeah. He's such a terrifying kickboxer. What is John Jones? John Jones a wrestler. He

wrestlers. Well, he's an everything fighter. He could do everything. But he started out as careers a wrestler. I like him. Oh, he's the best ever. Yeah, the best ever. He's the best ever,

“because he's the smartest of all of them. I mean, he's the, that guy's stuck. That's why I like”

them. That's exactly what I'm like. I see a video from saying, like, he watches everything, like from top to bottom. He watches interviews. He's going to watch. Oh, yeah. Every single day, he said he found a weakness. Oh, yeah. That's why I like him. Yeah, he gets inside their head. He knows every tendency they do. He sets traps. He does everything. It's funny. Daniel Kormier, who I love to death is a great friend of mine. When he fought John Jones, they were talking

before the fight about tendencies. And Daniel's like, oh, I know what you think I'm going to do. You think I'm going to lean towards the right. You're going to kick me in the head. And John did exactly that in the fight. It was so crazy when he landed it. Like, I love both of those guys. But Daniel's a close friend. And so we landed that head kick. I was like, no, you know, and I'm doing commentary. So I've got to like, yeah, I've got to be balanced. And you know, I do love both of those guys.

But I was like, damn, he did exactly what he said he was going to do. He said it on a commentary.

they were talking shit to each other. And one of the things like, you have some tendencies, Daniel,

“and I'm going to exploit those tendencies. He's like, oh, you mean how I dip to the right?”

When I go. And he did exactly. He got him with that head kick. I was like, no, oh, oh, wow.

But look, that's the goat. That's the guy, man. He's the guy. He's the guy who always figures out a

way to win. He figures it out. I heard it with somebody that he can suppose to fight though, that one in the fight them. It's like somebody really good. Oh, Tom Aspenal? Yeah. Well, see, the thing with that is, you know, John is at the stage of his career where he's like, I want to fight legends, I want to fight fights that are like big fights against big names that matter. Tom Aspenal carried a high risk. He wasn't a very well-known fighter, even though he's the heavyweight champion.

And he was really the heavyweight champion because John resigned the title. All right. So he was the interim heavyweight champion. So they had like an interim title. And John was the undisputed heavyweight

champion and they were supposed to fight. And they, they didn't make that happen. But now, you know,

after that fight, John is still trying to figure out if he's going to fight again, if he's going to fight again, maybe he'll fight because there's a big White House card in the heart of my dad. Yeah. And the White House card is a big one. And if that happens, that it won't be Aspenal, probably, because Aspenal just went through eye surgery. Yeah. Two different eye surgeries. He got poked in the eye and it's fight. Aren't you like involved in the U.S.E? Yeah. Yeah, I'm the commentator.

I'm one of the commentators. So are you going to be doing like Zulfo boxing too? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, that's a Calamon, Andre Ward, you know, they do a great job over there. I'll definitely

“watch some of those fights, though. I think it's interesting. It's good to have more organizations”

that are competing to get the fighters because then the fighters get more money. And I think, MMA could use that, too. Unfortunately, the UFC is the big name and MMA. And MMA, unlike boxing, is all about the UFC. And boxing, it's all about who's the champ. Nobody gives a shit of its golden boy or Bob Aeron, nobody gives a fuck who the promoter is. It's like who is the fighter that's fighting? Yeah. Is it triple G versus canelo? Is it who is who the fighters? Yeah.

And unfortunately, with MMA, it's not that. It's like if you are an excellent fighter, but you fight for the PFL, nobody knows. Nobody knows. Yeah. There's a small audience of hardcore people to pay for. So much fight for the PFL. Clarissa. Yeah, she fought for the PFL. She's crazy. The lady's wild. She's the best. She's wild. Oh, she's the best. She's the best. She's the best. She's nobody better. I mean, she's the heavyweight champ now. It's crazy.

I just wish she was kind of smaller. So like some of the smaller girls who really think that they can be her. Right. Can see like there's levels. Yeah. She's the goat. She is the goat. But she's she's not getting. I mean, as much as the love that she does get, she's not getting what she deserves. And it's just because there's just not a lot of competition. I don't understand it. I don't understand it. It's just too much. It's too much. It's too much. I just don't get it. Well, it's just women's boxing

does not have the same level of respect and appreciation that men's boxing does. Unfortunately. Well, Clarissa, I respect and appreciate you and you are my glook. So yeah, I do as well. I've had her on. She's awesome. I've had her on the podcast. I'm a big fan of her. And up just the only one that had the courage to fight in MMA. I mean, that was crazy. She's tough. And then she really did like not bad. But she was fighting against lesser competition. So yeah.

But she definitely was like, you could tell she was charming. She was, it was she had to learn the grappling from a beginner's perspective. And she was breaking out of the light. Tilt goes to the crazy. She knows how to win. You know, and that's sometimes that's enough. You know, at that

“high level is elite levels. She is. But I think she's rightly just concentrating on boxing”

because I think she realizes that to be a world champion in MMA, she would kind of have to abandon boxing. You know, for sure. And it would be a long process journey. And she probably have to absorb a couple more losses. Yeah. So why don't you really work? Fuck these girls up at boxer. And I know she don't like losing snow. No, not at all. No. Yeah. She's fun. She's a fun fighter to watch though. If anybody can get people to pay attention to women's boxing, it's Chloressa. Yes,

'cause she's exciting. I don't see the rest. I don't understand. I don't get it. I don't get it.

I don't get it. She deserves all our flowers. She's the truth. And I never seen nobody.

No female as good as her. I'm like, no, she's probably the greatest of all time. I think

that have been female fighters, but she's the real standout. Yeah. Yeah. No question. It's just,

unfortunately, that sport, I mean, it's not a lot of women out there that want to get punched in the face. If you had a room full of a thousand women, there might be like one or two, but like,

“I'll try that. You know what I mean? Now, I think it's some solid female fighters in this”

foot of boxing. Oh, there are. There are. But not in comparison, the numbers in men. Men's boxing is just, you know, a lot of kids grow up. They want to be a boxer. Yeah, for sure. Not a lot of women are like, let me put the doll down and fuck some chick up. That's an unusual mindset. Yeah, it is. No, it's just, you know, it is what it is. It's, um, it's, we're fortunate to be able to have her, though. Like, because like, if there's anybody that's going to elevate the sport

and bring in new fighters, it's going to be someone who is really the only person in the sport that gets a tremendous amount of attention as a woman. Yeah, she, she, she now became a superstar. So, yeah, it's definitely an interest in seeing her and like, the big arena is in having all the people

walk out with her and it's amazing to see. So, I'm enjoying her process and I'm glad that I'm here

to witness it. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I mean, but, you know, other than her and the pastor, there haven't been enough, like, women that have, like, really, you know, the Christy Martin Lailali and this is like a few that I can't woo. Yeah, well, it was a beast. Yeah, I like that. She was one of the few that could flatline a check with one shot, too. Yeah, she was the two. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and a great trainer, too. Yeah. When she was training Kirkland. Yeah. Bro, they, they showed

those videos of what she was putting him through and, you know, when he fucking, I don't know, he didn't have her in his corner. Well, just by the say the face that he lost, he kind of did

not have her, exactly. And if she was a fucking general dude, she was a general, she, she put him

through some brutal shit, but those were the fights that he was ultra prepared. Yeah. You know,

“I think that's the, like, people don't really like, I feel like the best coaches in the sport”

of boxing are the people that kind of box. I bet. Like Robert Garcia, I think he's the true fan of the coach. Sure. Bo Mac. Oh, Mac, another fighter. Yeah. But he McGurt. But he McGurt. Yeah. Oh, he was a great fighter. Yeah. I just brought the coaches that that's been in there. It's kind of right. They know. Sure. Yeah. I think it helps a lot. I mean, there's a few got like a manual steward. Did he have an amateur background? I think so. Yeah. I'm not sure. I think so, though. I think so.

A manual just had a brilliant mind for the sport. Yeah. I like the way he talked to. I'll be watching some of his old videos. Yeah. He actually it was something that I was doing in my fight for this fight. But I watched the video of whom and he said, um, fighters over trained like they're over trained and not seen it. He started explaining the reasons why you know that they're over training and I seen it. I started cutting back on some of the things that I'm doing. I'm like, man, I don't want to

over training. Don't come out. I'm on my best amateur boxing career. He compiled a record of 94 wins three losses in the amateur, including winning the 1963 National Golden Gloves Tournament in the Bantamweight Division. Wow, Bantamweight. That's crazy. I mean, he was small. That's crazy. But man, what he did with a crunk gym. He also had this gym like cranked up. He made it like 98 degrees in there all the time. So everybody was like training in the heat. Yeah. He had a lot of

boxers that was like top level boxers in there. So they was pushing each other to heat it or so. Yeah. That's the cheap one already, yeah. Oh, it is the cheap one, right? Iron sharpens iron. Yep. Yeah, you can't be the best boxer in your gym and I have everybody else's way below you and really get to that world class level. Impossible. It's impossible. You got to bring in guys

“this on a high level win. Honestly, for me, I keep like the young kids that's like up and”

coming like my little cousin. He's a great boxer and he's up and coming and I just was in the gym with him yesterday and placed bar with him and I keep a lot of good boxes around me, a lot of good boxes. This is another kid that made you all a chance. He's like 19 years old and like they are so skillful right now to where like when I'm around, no, I'm still picking up things from them. They probably don't even know it, but I'm definitely, I got my noepad out everywhere I go.

That's so important, right? Like mentally isn't locked in here. Like I'm watching it. What's that? So everybody does everything different. Yeah. You know, and you could just pick up little things here and there from what they do and start incorporating that. Yep. People don't know right before the fight went to you. It was, I'm gonna tell you a fight that I was watching.

He fought a guy named Dusty Harrison and like they literally ate years old, but I liked the way to remain was fighting in that fight. He was using his jab and he was the shorter fighter, but he was keeping his range and distance and I was literally watching an 8 year old kid fight right before the biggest fight of my life. That's amazing. And you're like studying. Wow. That's it. That's

“great. That's such a great mindset. Yeah. I mean, that's how you, that's how you really grow and learn”

that you could absorb something from everybody. Yeah, you could learn from anywhere. Like I was watching interview with you once where you're talking about parents and you said, you really learn more watching parents. Yeah. I still feel that way. Like I feel like I learned more from like seeing

the things he's doing than like being in the regular one. When we were in the ring it's always

chest like we haven't chest matches, but when I'm watching I can see some of the things he's doing and I'm like damn this dude is just different like I knew before the suspense fight was happening. I knew before the canelified world was happening like even I was in a locker room. I'm in a locker room. I'm looking at him. Call my bad man. I'm like, yo, put me some more money. I know I know it's time. I know a lot of. But watch it him and the gym. You got to see hard training sessions.

You got to see when he looked great. You got to see bad days in the gym. You got to see how he recovered, how he came back. Yup. He like I said, he's one of the most competitive human beings I've ever met. So I do get to see all of it. Like I get to see go home with him. Okay, let me see how you thinking about this. He'll go back and watch the sparring and when he watching it. Oh my God. He's adjusted. His brain is just adjusted to the sparring that he just

watched and then we're going to the gym the next day. Now he's just doing things and you shoot. Everything just on point. So do you do that? You watch your sparring. I learned that from him.

Yeah. I used to really never used to do that. But I had seen him. I forget what on sparring

such he was watching. I want to say on his iPad. And he was watching it. And then I seen a spider next time. And I'm like, whoa, we look like a million books. Like the adjustments that he made was his insane. So I started doing the same thing. I'm like, if I have a day, I don't like, I go home. Why did I have this day? Oh my God, I keep doing that. Why do I keep doing it? Okay, I'm not doing that anymore. Oh, I can hit him with this. I see that shot is open. Okay,

“now I'm a hit him with this shot. And I think that that helps me tremendously. The big”

sense like watching yourself as an observer the way you would watch an opponent. Yeah. Yeah. You got to see what you do good and like what you do bad and correct the things that you do bad. Instead of just remembering it from the training. Yep. Watching it. Yeah. Because I have like a bad habit sometimes when I'm like in a boxing jump. I like a fight. I don't have like, I don't know why I would get in there sometimes I'll just turn into a fighter instead of realizing

that I'm a boxer. Right. And this is how I get hit with shots and I'm like, oh, why am I getting hit with that shot? I'm like, I know my mentor, my brain was already locked in on fighting. Instead of being locked in on boxing then. Then you fight. Explain to people what is the difference between your mentality fighting and your mentality as a boxer? When I'm fighting, I'm emotional. Like, and I don't want to be emotional, but I'm emotional and I'm fighting somebody. I'm trying to

like beat them up and I'm having a contest of who's the the bigger and stronger guy. And when I'm boxing, I'm just on top of my game and it's like, I'm able to hit you and you're not able to hit

“me. And that's what I do best. So I try to like stick with what I do best and it's going to be a”

time to fight. So I have that emotional for sure, but I don't like just doing it for no reason. Do you sometimes feel yourself getting emotional fighting after pull it back?

I never had it happen in a fight, but I don't know how it happened, like, in a sponsored way,

like, I brought you emotions. It's just taking control instead of like you just having fun and enjoying what you're doing. Right. So yeah, I don't have no moments in the gym for sure. It's just like a composure thing. You're all the sudden, you're now not thinking as much as trying to

main thing. I want to be present in what I'm doing and not moving off of like feelings. Right. Right.

That probably fucked up a lot of fighters doing it. Yeah, for sure. Because so many, especially men, they're so wrapped up in their feelings and their emotions when they're fighting. Yeah, but fighters don't study themselves. Like, I study myself. Like, I've got to

“checking myself and see, like, what am I doing wrong and what am I doing right and I correct it?”

You think that's rare? Yeah. I think that's a rare attribute on, because fighters depend on their coaches. They depend on their coaches to do everything again. I do the other depend on my grandfather when I need him, but I'd know that I'm the fighter that's in there. So I'm not trying to just depend on them. I want to depend on myself also. So, like, do you try to get the other guys in the gym to follow your footsteps and watch footage? You tell them,

like, help them out with that? Yeah. Like, the younger guys that I've just mentioned, my little cousin and my little brother down there, many, um, I try to tell them to tune in with theyself and do the same similar things, watch it so see what you're doing wrong and try to correct it, but they younger so as time go on, they will pick up on it, but I can't rush

“how I feel and my beliefs on number right now. Well, the best thing you could do is lead by”

example. Yeah. Always. That's my main thing. Yeah. If you do all the hard work and you put it in,

then they'll see your success. Yeah. When they have hard, harder moments, they'll go, okay, what do I need you adjust? Yep. Let me follow Shakira. Yeah. Well, let me, let me see what the champ is doing. Yeah, that's the goal. That's my main goal because, um, like I said, I ain't gonna be boxing forever, so, um, once I'm done, I'm going to sit back in. I'm gonna help them out, so you plan on coaching when you're done. I probably don't coach, just help out

in the gym. Just call me a secret weapon. Call me a secret weapon. I'll be that guy. Do you already think about what you're gonna do when you retire? Because boxing is a sport where you when you're

retire, you're still of so much life ahead of you. Man, that's the truth, but I've been trying

to, like, figure it out because I know it's gonna be within boxing, but whatever I do, I'm going to do to the best of my ability. I'm going to want to, like, make tons of money for what I'm doing. If I'm a secret weapon, shit, I might make money just being a secret weapon is a little easy. Right. Just someone bringing the cap. I'm the right guy for it. Yeah. I got all the

“knock. I watched too much boxing, like my life is, like, literally sit down and watch TV, watch,”

I've had, watch, like, I just live boxing, so I think that'll be kind of easy, but I just see myself, like, taking over the world. I don't know, like, I can't tell you, like, I don't know, like, my brain kind of, like, different, like, I don't feel like I know for a fact I'm not going to be boxing for long. Like, I don't plan on getting the ring doing the race and doing all that forever. So when I take over the world, it's going to be more so, like, me just locking in and using

the same focus that I got for boxing into whatever else that I'm doing that take over, like, whatever I do, I want to be the best in. So you don't even have a thought of what it's going to be. You'll figure that out when you get out of boxing. I journal a life. So I'll be writing things for real. So I can't tell you exactly what it's going to be, but I do know that. I'm going to be somewhere, making millions and a different atmosphere. Well, that's a great out of two to have.

I'm glad you say you journal because this is one of the things that I wanted to bring up. I wish more boxers were interested in writing books because I think there's some of the things that you're talking about today and some of the things you're talking about in terms of, like, watching yourself, analyzing yourself, things you've learned, they'll be very, very valuable if it's written down. But boxing knowledge is all word of mouth in the gym.

It's all people who know things, tell other people and they learn things and you got to go to these gyms and talk to these people or you get boxing knowledge from the commentators, like Andre Wardle spit it out or Roy Jones will spit it out. Like, that is where boxing knowledge gets sort of recorded. Yeah. But I think it would be great if boxes could sit down and write just unboxing because you think about what a huge sport boxing is, huge sport.

about technique and style and how they learn things and what they learned and why and what changed.

And I learned that in this fight and this fight, this changed and I adjusted this about my training sessions and I heard a manual steward talk about overtraining and so I realized maybe I was doing that. It is one book. What is it? Andre Wardle. Oh, that's right. I'm sure you got to read it, but I'm not fully done with it either, but as I read through some of it, he's given us some free game, like, it's free game in there that people could go listen to and read it and check it out

because it's definitely like, did he read it for the audiobook? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I know I got the actual books, I didn't, but I didn't finish it. I wouldn't say that I finished it,

but but he talks all about those things. It's a lot of things in there that's like free game,

like, okay, whoa, I like that, like, I'm gonna take that, like, if you're training, even if you're training a fighter, like, you're training a fighter, it's something that I saw that he said that I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that if I'm a training fighter. Narrated by Andre Ward, perfect killing the image, champions journey fighting and forgiveness. He's the perfect guy to do that, too, because like I said, he's the guy that did it right, you know, went out on top. What's

up? He helped you understand? Yeah, yeah, well, we need more books like that. I'll read that book,

“I haven't read it, but I'll read it, because I think it's just, there's so much knowledge out there”

in certain camps and it would benefit the entire sport if someone would document some of that stuff, because some of that stuff was only told to the fighters that this guy's training and only told to the other fighters that's got trains with, and it's not, it's not out there and it could get lost, you know? Like, I'm sure there's some shit that Floyd knows that only people around him know that have been told that will be lost. Yeah, for sure. You know, I'm saying it's something he told me

before this last fight that I took in and I'm like, "Oh, really? What is that?" He was in that, it's simple though. It's very simple. I don't, like I say, it's hard for me to keep giving up the, maybe when I retire. I'll come on, man. What is that? Now, he just told me, um, stretching, stretching, stretching, and I just gave up. It's simple though, like, people who's know it, but do people do it? People don't even do it in the MMA. Yeah. You know,

“crazy that is, where you have to kick, and people don't stretch. Yeah. Like, I was having a conversation”

with this dude who was a world champion and I was explaining to him a jujitsu position. I was like, this is why it's effective. It's like, "Oh, I can't get my legs up that high." Like, what are you talking about? You can. You have to stretch, because I don't really stretch. I'll go, "That's crazy." Every note is a lot of fighters in sports. That's like, I don't see it. That's crazy. I don't see it. Well,

Floyd has always been a guy who did everything, right? I mean, if you want to emulate a guy's

career, Floyd has been hit hard, maybe three times in this whole career. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, he's a true flight. A hundred percent. Every time I watch him, I was a wizard. I didn't, I barely seen anybody like that good. Like, for me personally, yes. Barely, like, it's only a handful of people that I'll say, like, okay, they're that good. Like, his brain is working at a different level than a lot of people. Also, just insanely disciplined, always in shape, always took care of himself

would go out to a club, drink water, and run home in jeans. That's tough. I heard he had on like, bolts. I never heard of that like that before. I could imagine, I mean, but that's the results, right? You get a guy who's just hadn't shoulders above everybody he fights. Yeah. And just a master of pinpoint precision and movement and knowing where you are and hard to hit, but still right in front of you. That's the crazy thing about Floyd. There's a lot of guys that are hard to hit,

but they were like, flee to foot and move it around and footwork and let me check out style, you know? Not Floyd. Right in front of you. Right in front of you, you can't hit him. Kind of

“crazy. Kind of similar to me. Yes. But I think he's, he's definitely, he's a Tico.”

Yeah. His mental was just too far ahead of everybody else's. Yeah. That's the main thing. Well, the one fight between like guys who retired and came back that I'm still interested in seeing his him and Mani and I know they're going to do that on Netflix. Floyd. I think that's still a

and Floyd, even these exhibitions that he's been doing looking good. He looks great, man. He looks great in sparring. You see him in sparring, like good Lord, man. It doesn't look like he's lost the step. Yeah. Honestly, I don't see on Mani being able to be Floyd, man. I don't see it. I think Mani looked solid his last fight with Barrios, but I just don't see Floyd losing. Like, I think

“it's some guys that he could come back today in the sporter box and then fight. Do I think so?”

Like, guys like those Barrios. Yeah. Right. I think he was he would like Barrios up. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, I mean, I'm still at this level. I mean, no matter what he's lost being 46,

he they haven't gained that yet. I mean, they're not, they were never there in the first place.

Because if he was here and he's lost this much, they're still here. Yeah. And you know, he's not Floyd that fought Canelo or Floyd that fought Ricky Hatten. It's not the same Floyd. It's not that much different. Yeah. He's still so far. Hey, because he's not drinking. He's not fucking his body up. He's not doing anything stupid. He stays in shape. He eats right. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate Floyd too, because that's one of the guys that I never did. No

“business with ever. And he's still kind of helped me. So I appreciate him. I think he's a real”

dude. He got my love and respect. Well, I always say that if you wanted to have a style that you emulate what you want to have a great career. Look at that guy. Like really, very few times this career ever got hurt. Yeah. Very, very few. You could count him on one hand. Yeah. You know, where he was in any kind of trouble at all. Yeah, that's my goal. And then when in rematches,

oh my god, and rematches, he's always just like so like my Donna, like my Donna, the first fight was

rough fight. Yeah. Second fight. He looked like a master. I'm not gonna lie to he's one of the guys that makes me want to like feel the experience of like getting hurt. Because like when he was shamelessly, that moment of like he lost his whole balance, everything almost went to his feet, but he stayed up. Yep. And then he fought back harder. Like I feel like that was like an amazing moment of his career. And like for me, I want to have the experience like of that moment. Like I have never

got hit like crack like that yet in a proposal. I actually want to experience it. You really want that? Yeah, because I want to so like that you could do it. Yeah, like you've got to see like I got more in me to just than just being like a good boxer. Like I'm a good boxer, but I'm tough too. The mostly fight was probably the fight where he got hurt the most. Yeah. And the most dangerous,

“because it was like, I think it was kind of in the middle of the round, right? Yeah. I want to feel”

that experience. Wow. And that was prime. I told Andrew Ward that he told me he like, man, why would you? Why would you want to? Why would you want to? I'm like, I don't understand why, but I definitely do. Who do you think out there could do that? I don't think nobody. I don't think they're like mentally on the level of it's even. I think I'm just too far ahead. That, but that's the problem with being too far ahead is that it's going to be hard for you to get fights.

Yeah. What are they talking about right now? Is there anybody that they're talking about right now for you? No way. I haven't really heard none from a business standpoint since my last fight, so problem is the last fight was too good. You know, like you would have probably got some offers before that fight, but after that fight everybody's like, hold on. I don't know if I want that to happen to me. Yeah. I don't, I have no clue who I'll be fighting next. Who do you have

your sights on? Like, who do you, it's like if you could make the decision. Who do you think is interesting right now? If I can make a decision, interest would interest me maybe, and this is crazy to say. I may go back to 35 and get that ring belt. Really? I may. We'll see the, yeah. I can't promise that I will, but I may. What, what, what makes that more interesting to you? Um, I like the ring belt. Like I like the ring magazine, but I don't know what it is about it.

Oh, it's about it. But for me to have a ring belt at 1.30 and then I had, I got a ring belt right

now at 1.40, but I never had a ring belt at 35 and it's like, should I just go get that

ring belt just to, just to have it. So it's the belt, not even the opponent. I know the opponent

fighter. He's just beat, um, Andy Kulso. Um, now I think the opponent is more so just to have the ring belt.

“That's crazy. Like, you're at a position where you're not even thinking about a opponent's”

thinking about belts you'd like to acquire. That's pretty cool, though. I mean, that's a beautiful place to be in. Yeah. That's beautiful. But what about opponents? Is there any opponents like, if you had like, if no one could say no and you were like, I'm going to orchestrate my career, who would you like to fight? If it was no opponents, I mean, and I was orchestrating, I probably, because the fight that I would think that would generate the most amount of interest

at 135 would be tank. Now, I know tanks got some legal issues now. And I don't know what his

status is currently. But when it terms of big names, tank is the big name at 35. Yeah. Um, I will love for, for it to happen. But, um, the way that he went on like social media and kind of like bashed me in a way to where it's like he made it seem like I need, I need him. And, um, I just feel disrespected about it because at the end of the day, I'm a grown man. I make my own money. I'm living spectacular life. I don't need nobody. So, um, if he feels as though I need him and if his

that kind of stuff, then it's like, whatever. Well, I didn't need up that fight. The thing is, this is like tank had gotten a bunch of those high profile fights. He caled Ryan. He's had some big high profile fights. It looked great. And so for him to say that, he's probably, you know, he's talking shit, obviously. But he's like looking at you is like you haven't had before the Lopez fight. You haven't had that big breakout fight. But now you have. Now you have and it was more

spectacular than you, me, if you wanted to write out a perfect result on paper against a world champion like Tiafimo, that would be the fight you would say. Yeah. So that's, and if I don't think of like a big fight for you, if I was the guy with the magic wand, that would be the fight that I would set up. I would love to fight. That would be a fight. Oh, that would be a big fight. Especially after you just beat Lopez, that would be a big fight. I would love for the fight. That might be the only

big fight that I could think of, other than you going up. But 47's, like you said, that's a, that's a big jump, man. Yeah, I'm not, I, I, I make it though. I make it soon. Soon, I mean, later than sooner. But do you think if you did that, you would want to prepare and put me mass on or would you just

“stay at the weight you are and just get accustomed to fighting pair of guys?”

If I was to go to 47, I would wonder, like, prepare, like, I wouldn't want to do it slowly. I wouldn't want to just jump the one, seven in. You would want to put on weight, you think? Yeah, some type of weight, yep. Yeah. Because I'm little, like, I can't just jump right and get the size that I am at 147 pounds when I know guys is going to be a lot bigger. Right, especially when you're talking about Ryan being 170 when he gets in the ring, he might

even be bigger than that. And he was big and ripped in his last fight. He looked fucking great. Yeah, for sure. You know, but it's like, that's one of those things, too, is if you do go up, going down gets real hard, going back. Like, if you go up, I don't understand the reason with that, because your body gets accustomed to being bigger for that. Yeah. And then, so if you put on mass, right? So if you put on muscle and you go up to, like, 147. And so you're walking around at

155, 160, something like that, you drop down to 47. You've got more shoulder muscle, chest muscle, back muscle, leg muscle. If you stay at that weight and then you've got to cut down to 35.

You're going to feel like shit. And the example that I always use is Roy. So when Roy Jones went

up and fought John Ruiz won the heavyweight title, then he went back down to light heavyweight. He never looked the same. Because he was 200 pounds solid at a heavyweight ripped, like muscular, 200 pounds. For him to lose 25 pounds of weight and go back down to light heavyweight. That is fucking hard. Yeah, I get that. I get that. I'm off of like, when Roy did that, Roy was like,

“I think he must have been trying to set up a big heavyweight fight, maybe? Or was he just trying”

to just win the title? I mean, I think it was just trying to be like the only guy to go from

because you write when he fought to Harvard, it was like, I don't know what was happening, like, I didn't really think, to Harvard was as good as Roy, but to Harvard beat Roy. Harvard's a bad motherfucker. Harvard's a very good fighter. And I think, Roy,

I think, Harvard in that fight, first of all, they had fought before, right? They had a real close

decision loss, the Harvard loss, and then, Harvard got in his head at the beginning of the fight. So he got an excuses tonight, Roy. That was crazy. That was crazy. That was crazy. Like, to hear that, like, write when you're about to fight. Yeah. Any questions for the champion? And every question for the champion? Got any excuses tonight, Roy? Yeah. Oh, my god, Roy. Man, I don't know.

“Those are one of the wildest things anybody's ever said. That's what it turned me up, though.”

Like, if he would have said that to me, like, I'm trying to pitch at somebody saying that to me, right before he fight. Now, I'm going to win. I already want to beat you back. Right. Now, I'm going to want to beat you even better. Like, then, after the fight, I'm going to get on the mic. And what did you say? Did you say something? But when he dropped Roy and knocked him out, I was like, oh, my god, I can't believe it. Yeah. But I was worried about him because I know what that

does to people when they drop weight and dropping down from 200 pounds to 175 will really wear your body out. Yeah. So you think it was more so to wait than the skills of Tyver?

I would never say that. Because I think Tyver has elite skills. I mean,

I think he's elite. Oh, come on. I think Tyver's elite fight elite. You don't think he's elite? No. No.

“I mean, he's not doing respect to performances and not as good performances, but I think in the”

performance against Roy, he looked elite. Yeah, he looked good at night, but because he he rose to the occasion. I just don't know why elite, elite, low. I can't any personally, I'm not the biggest Tyver fan. Okay. Well, I defer to your championship knowledge. But I mean, in that fight, you can't say that he didn't look spectacular in that fight. No, he did. He looked on point. He looked like he was the better fighter at that moment. Yeah. Awkward South paw. When I

watched the first fight out, though, Roy was a way better fighter than him. I thought Roy just stood on a ropes for way too long. I don't know why he did that. Hmm. Was the first fight before or after he fought Ruiz? It was a failure. It was it after the first fight they had, too? Yeah. That probably war is as out, too. I think I just think once you go all the way up like that,

“you should probably stay there. Yeah. And I don't know how we went up. I don't want to, you know,”

it's hard for a guy in his 30s to put on that kind of muscle. Yeah. And generally, you have some help.

Yeah. So generally, some Mexican supplements involved. And so the problem is, it took us three.

Once you have taken that stuff and then you stop taking it because you want to go back to your normal weight, your whole endocrine system gets fucked up. This is the problem with juicers. Guys who take juice, the thing that happened. I mean, I don't tell me this. Oh, no, I'm saying this about right. Okay. So again, we're just talking in general. Fighters that gain weight and have lean muscle and put on that kind of mass. Yeah. Generally, they're doing it with some kind of

supplement, some kind of either steroids or something that juices up your endocrine system, whether it is. And it'll help you keep eating. Yeah. Okay, you know, I never heard of this. You didn't know? No. Well, come on man. You don't feel? No, I didn't know. Oh, come on. There's a lot of fighters that took stuff. Oh, I know, I know that. Yeah. I know that people is cheating. Oh, well, in the older days, before they were testing. Yeah. Oh, come on, man. Again, the 90s, who knows how many guys

run steroids? Dang, that take away the credit of them guys because I feel like when I watched them guys, they was the truth now. They are the truth. But I don't think, I think, well, let me, let me use one I know for an example. And MMA, MMA is a better example. Yeah. Because in MMA, fucking for sure, I could tell you 100% people were juicing 100% because I knew guys who were juicing. Yeah. They would tell me what they were on. Yeah. Everybody was juicing. So then they started

to implementing the, so then the USC starts getting sanctioned by athletic commissions and they test day of the fight. Yeah. The day of the fight test is an intelligence test. It's not a steroids test. It's like, were you intelligent enough to cycle off right before the fight with the right kind of steroids, so that on the way in day when you get tested, you don't test positive. Yeah. That's all it is. And a lot of these camps, like big MMA camps, they have scientists

then the UFC, it is scary. But the thing is, everybody was doing it. And then on top of that, you had an organization like pride. And I don't know if you were aware of pride, but pride was the big organization in Japan. I mean, they were selling out 90,000 seat arenas in Japan for these promotions. They were fucking huge. And everyone was juiced to the tips. I don't know if

everybody was, but a lot, I don't know if rampage was. rampage told me he never took steroids.

“And I believe him. But a lot of guys were juiced up. And I know for a fact they were juiced up,”

because they told me, they told me. And they also tell him, like, Encin anyway, who fought for pride, told me that on his contract, yeah, Encin anyway? Yeah, like not related, but same last time. Encin, he was a great fighter, a pioneer in MMA. Encin told me that on his pride contract, it said in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids. Like they encouraged, I had a friend of mine in Japan, they encouraged him to take steroids. See, this, this scared

me because I got it getting a boxing ring. And I know that people be cheating. So people cheat. I know, it's me like low-level fighters that you go there and you be like, why do this guy punch way harder than a lot of people like, right? I don't understand it in his life. Well, there's a few fighters in MMA that when steroids started being tested for, they're, they're body shrunk and then they're power went away. Like there was guys that were not

in everybody out, and then also we could not get it out. It's crazy. I mean, there's so many stories in MMA where you see fighters, physics, just a flight, like they, they're a balloon. They got air let out of it. Like I said in the boxing of the life, see guys, they kind of like get caught with steroids,

“and then they have a fight at that in this lane. Deliver shit. Where did the power go?”

Exactly. All of that power? That's fact. That's fact. I get it. That does happen. And then there's also ways that we can't figure out what they're doing yet. I mean, this has happened all throughout sports, right? This was the whole thing with Barry Bonds and the Boko scandal and baseball, they had developed a steroid called the Clear. And what the Clear was was a steroid that was undetectable. They hadn't figured it, but eventually they got caught. And so who knows what kind of

shit? It's not like they stop trying to innovate and come up with ways to get an advantage. There's definitely people doing it now, but the way the UFC works now, the first they brought in you saw it, now they have a company called Drug Free Sport that does the same thing. And they just show up and test you. You don't get a notification. It's going to happen next Tuesday. So you can take a bunch of shit that clears it out of your system. So they just show up, knock on your door.

“Hey, it's time for a test. And then you have to do that's how they should.”

Vada do the same thing. They just show up. Yeah. That's how they show up. You're in blood. Yep. Any time. Now I see my last candidate testing me like four five times. Yeah. I did. Well, that's the only way to know. You got to show up randomly and test guys. That's the

only way to know. Because I never ever really did anything when it comes to cheating. So I'm

sure. But if you go, and this is again, not casting any disparaging remarks about Roy, who's one of the greatest of all time. But if you went back to the Ruiz fight, do you think they were testing him? I fucking doubt it. I fucking doubt it. There was no Vada testing back then. But then you saw that what was in boxing? No. I don't think so. No. No. I couldn't have sworn it was in boxing. Okay. Let's find out. Was the Roy Jones,

John Ruiz, Jr. fight, did they utilize Vada testing? I don't think they did. You saw that? You saw that? You saw that? Okay. You saw that. I don't think they did.

I don't think that. Look, that was always a thing about manny. Like people always said that about

manny. I heard that too. Right. Only reason why I was believable, though, because I knew there was eight way classes. I never seen that in my life. And kept the knockout power. I never seen that in my life. Right. I never in a history of the sport. You go from one weight, one-on-one or whatever he started out. So 154 and you're just knocking guys out. I know. That's crazy. And his physique. You know? I mean, he looks fantastic at every step of the way. And he also had that dude. What it's say was not held

under a modern UFC style, you saw the program. There's no record of being part of any independent year-round you saw the Vada scheme like we see today. I saw the age is dependent on the athletic commission. Yeah, but again, the athletic commission is fighting. It's an intelligence

like at the weigh-in. Now, Alistair Overeem is the greatest example in MMA of a guy who when

“he was on the juice, he was unstoppable. Unstoppable. They called him Ooreem when he was on”

stop-up because he looked like a comic book superhero. He was so jacked and then when they started doing you saw the testing, he looked completely different. I mean, completely different. He got softer. He's still a good, but he didn't look like Ooreem. When he, there's an image of him flexing on the scale. Like, look at him right there. Come on, son. I mean, come on, look at that girl. Look at Harry on his face. And she's looking at his back. He's like, what the fuck? And that was,

I mean, come on, man. He was a fucking monster. He was knocking guys out. He was destroying everybody.

He was destroying everybody. When he was juiced up, and he started his career as a light heavyweight.

So he started his career as a 205 pound guy who was thin and skinny. That is light heavyweight. Yeah, that's light heavyweight. If the UFC's weight class are all fucked up. Like, well, I know it's stupid. They have the same names but different weight classes. So like, Welterweight is 170 in the UFC. Yeah, look at him. So that's the difference between how he was when he was juicing versus how he was. You see the difference? It's crazy, right? Isn't it crazy? It's crazy.

So the guy on the right was just he had to move more. It was still very skillful. He's a very skillful kickboxer. Very skillful MMA fighter. But I mean, when that guy was fully jacked up and juiced.

“Right, he was almost unstoppable. See, that's why, man, that's why I really, I don't like that.”

Like, that's my thing. I do not want to get in the ring with somebody that's cheating, like, for like, that's, but I'm so good to us, like, even if you are cheating, you ain't going hit me. You won't be much in the mansion. If you're fighting a guy that's at your level. But he's cheating. Yeah. That's the problem. Yeah. That's the problem. Right now, there's not really anybody in your division that's at that level. That's like really compelling.

I mean, other than at 135 tank. But if imagine if there's someone that's at your level and you're pretty sure they're cheating, that's got to fuck with your head. Honestly, I feel like it's some competitive guys at these way classes. They just not know. Right. But it's some names that's like, okay, like, even the Mount Roach. The Mount Roach is very good. That fight with Jervante was crazy, because that was a knockdown. That's the fucking knockdown. He won for sure. The fact that he took

a knee and the referee didn't call it a knockdown, that's crazy. But to say, like, I'm just saying, it is guys out there for me. The Mount is a great example. Be big fights and competitive fights and I don't spare the mice, so I know the money is up. He's legit. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people did not know about him before that fight, but after that fight, I mean, look, that sucks, man, because that goes down on his record as a loss. And that's, was it a draw? Draw. That's right. It was a draw.

And he won the fight. He clearly won. He won the fight. Yeah. I thought he won the fight anyway. Yeah, I did too. But the knockdown, like, you can't say, I got shit in my hair and it got in my eyes.

“And that's why I went down. That's crazy. That was a very amateurish. It was weird, right? I think”

amateurish. I didn't, it was weird. I never stood a night like that. Well, it's like,

Jervante just look like his head wasn't totally there and that fight. Yeah, maybe. So, do you require body testing for all your fights and do you have that ability to do that? Yes. So, in negotiations, you make sure that everybody's tested when they come down there. Good for you. Yeah, not played. Yeah, good for you, man. Good for you. I mean, it's, we're very fortunate that we have these testing bodies like that now, available. Yeah. Because again, like, if they had

who knows what a lot of fighter's legacies would be if they were testing them at every step along the way. Yeah. They'd get caught. Yeah. Yeah. So, with MMA, it was the wild west for a long time. For a long time. It was the wild wild west. Everybody was doing all kinds of shit. I wouldn't be able to do that. Like, I would not be able to gain the ring loose to somebody and then no, they cheated me. Right. Because I don't know how I will react today. Like, that will be like one of the moments

I may crash out and I don't do crash out. So, I might crash out about late. I know where you just cheated me, bro. Right. I know where you just cheated me, bro. Well, the thing is that with combat sports versus every other sport is your goal is to hurt your opponent. Yeah. And if there is a thing you're doing that's cheating that helps you hurt your opponent, that is a different

home run? I think they should all cheat in baseball. I think they should all get on steroids.

Make it more exciting. Like, because the only thing that's exciting about baseball is home runs. Right. Yeah. That's the number one thing. If you've got a way that you guys can hit more home runs, fucking give it to him. What do you do? Yeah. It's like, it's kind of like, it's not really going to hurt anybody. Exactly. Exactly. I get it. Exactly. But in boxing is like, it's like for death.

“Yeah. It boxing is real life for death. That's why I don't know how like I will react. Don't you?”

Anybody watching this please don't eat me. I am not the guy to be cheated. So there's understanding. Well, I mean, whenever people are looking for shortcuts and people want to win,

there's always going to be someone that's willing to do something that they're not supposed to be

doing. That ain't it. Don't like, this is like you said, it's like for death. Like for death. So you could cheat and hit somebody with the wrong shot and then they did. What's the guy that kills somebody else? So Brioma says, right. And now he just got part for cheating. So it's like, he did? Yeah. I didn't know that. What did he get part for? I don't even. He lost recently, right? He lost right before the loss they had part for cheating. I want to say. Oh, don't hit Smith.

So that he lost. So he got popped and then he lost the next fight. Yeah, they let him fight. But it's like a one of his the same guy after he got popped. That's right. I don't know either. But because he was killing everybody. I mean, he actually killed one guy. But he actually killed somebody. But if I'm the family or somebody that you killed. And then he comes out and cheated.

“I will be like, hold a look now and throw a leg. Can you see when Matthias got popped for?”

That's crazy. He was, who's the dude who just beat him? Do you just stop him? Yes. Yeah. That was a crazy fight. That was crazy. They were going to, they went to war. I mean, that was not an easy fight for him. And Matthias is a dangerous dude, man. Yeah. That was a great performance by Dustin Smith though. Yeah. People don't know back in the day when I was in a junior world. Me and home went to the world together. So Austrian. Everybody's on Austrian. What is it about? I don't even know much about

Austrian. What does Austrian do? Let's find out what it does. Austrian selective androgen receptor modulator designed to treat muscle-wasting conditions and osteoporosis by promoting muscle growth and bone density without the severe side effects of antibiotics steroids. Popular amongst bodybuilders for enhancing muscle mass and fat loss. It's not a proof for human consumption by the FDA banned by water and linked to side effects like liver toxicity, testosterone suppression,

and cardiovascular risks. So it helps you keep muscle and bone density. Yeah. Well, it makes sense that

“that would be a good supplement for boxers. What are you showing me here before or after?”

Look at that guy. The one you got your link on? Jesus. Well, he looks like he's faking it in the third

picture. But I mean, you're always going to have certain people that are going to cheat.

I hate it. Are there any like world title fights that take place that don't have vodka testing? Oh, yeah. I think it is. I think people don't fight without it, but I don't I don't play that. Yeah. I don't play that. I'd be thinking, man, I don't aspire to do it in the gym. That was like not good one time. He's not good at all. But I'm sparring on like, man, it's due punch harder than everybody I ever been in. I wonder like,

dude, did I do do EBT? Well, sometimes just have natural God give him power too. That's when you're like fat, not kind of like you're out of shape. Then you just punch super hard and it's slow, but it's like boom, boom. I'll be thinking P. B. G. They might be, but they might just have the gift. Yeah, that the thing about boxing is punching power. You can enhance your punching power, but that crazy punching power. That's a gift. Yeah, you're born like Ernie Shavers type

punching power or the on day. Wilder Wilder. The greatest example ever. Oh my god. One shot with Teddy Atlas is the best example. He called the eraser. All the mistakes you made, it doesn't matter. Yeah, because I sit there and watch Wilder and I'm like, dog, it's some face that I see him not punch at all until the shot is there. Right. And when the shot is there, he got you. It's over. It's crazy. It's already it's over. I mean, he might be the greatest one punch knockout

question. Like he is probably the hardest puncher to ever. He's up there. I mean, Ernie Shavers back in the day. Punch harder than Wilder. Wow, they all said Ernie Shavers was like, even Alisa, nobody had harder than Ernie Shavers. Wilder, I know. I know. He's a wilder too,

is he's not big. He only weighed 209 when he fought Tyson Fury the first time. That right here,

he got crazy. I don't think nobody could take it. It's crazy. I don't think nobody could take it. That's like a lie. I saw a fairy take it, but you know what he's like? He's like a giant Tommy

“hernds. Yeah. That's what it's like. Yeah. Long leverage, just torque the width of the shoulders,”

the snap of the punch is black. I wish he retired all day. I feel like he, what else is there to do? Like you know, and did a lot in this boy, you know, made a lot of money. I just wish like certain guys just like, okay. I know. What am I doing this one now? Well, he's kind of like Derek Jassora, which is interesting, because they're both the same age. They're both up 55. They're both kind of in the same, but you know. I like Derek Jassora. He'll cool. Do it too.

He seems cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a great time for boxing. There's a lot of talent. A lot of very, very compelling matchups. Are they going to do a B-Vall, a better B-F re-batch? They're going to do a, I don't want to see trilogy. I want to see B-Vall versus Benavides. Ooh. That's the fight. Like I don't know. Well, the fight was Benavides or Kinello.

Well, that never could get me it for some reason. I mean, Benavides is too big for Kinello to like,

I'm not, I see both sides. Like I love Benavides and I'm a fan of him. So I see the side of like, like fight me bro. You to, you to God, I'm the God. We number one, let's fight. But then I see Kinello side is like, man, this dude is 200 pounds on the regular. Right. And I'm nowhere near that weight.

“So it's like, why would I fight this guy? Like, I don't think it's fair. Like, that's how he”

filled himself. Yeah. I understand it. But Kinello went up and fought B-Vall. But he knew. He didn't, he didn't, he didn't think B-Vall was going to be. You know, they said, no. Well, he didn't think he thought he was going to be B-Vall. After B-Vall beat him,

you think that killed the chances. Yes, he knew like it's time. Like, I cannot fight these guys.

That's super big. I love watching Benavides fight. He's a, he's a, he's a killer. He is a fighter. He did something to help my hands. He told me to put on the gloves that I'll be wearing on Friday night. And they helped my hands. So I appreciate him too. Do you do anything to strengthen your hands? Do you do exercises? Yeah. I can't tell anybody. I can't tell. All right. Tell me later. Yeah, I tell you later. There's a,

it's a bunch of different things people do like buckets of rice is a big one. Oh, yeah, for sure. I do that too. Yeah. Yeah. Moving your hands around a bucket. What is it? Benavides targets to beat you, B-Vall. Oh, there we go. That's the fight. That's the fight. That's the best versus the best. I think that's one of the best fights to make in the sport of boxing. Well, he's fighting Ramirez. It's at cruiserweight, right? Yeah. And then he's going to drop back down to light heavyweight

and fight B-Vall. I like that. Yeah. I want to make the biggest and the best fights happening. Fuck yeah. Yeah. That's one of the best fights in the sport. Arctic better be of, but better be of is like 40 now. Yeah. He's a truth. Oh, he's a truth. He was a crusher forever. Yeah. It plays 200. Oh, my God. He had another one. He's a bang's dude's out. He's got a crazy style. Yeah. I mean, it's funny when people spark him. They have these

stories. Yeah. Like you hit you and you're like, what just happened? Yeah. I could see it, though. And I watched him fight B-Vall. I'm in front row. Mm-hmm. And like B-Vall, like they catch us on his glove and like I could see like how hard he was punching his glove. Like, yeah. Damn. I don't know how B-Vall is taking that. I know. And he was 39 back then. Yeah.

“That's what's crazy. It's like we missed his prime. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. We see one fight”

way for the oversee, the guard, something. And he'd be, he'd be him. Yeah. He'd be him up. Well, he was at one point in time. Wasn't he like 39 and no with 39 knockouts? Which is just nuts. Yeah. At that level? That is just nuts. Just nuts that he stopped everybody. And it looks natural too. It don't look like he's on a like, it's not very natural. No, it's not very natural. But didn't he get in trouble or something? He got COVID something? Yeah. Put that

better B-V. Not better B-V. I feel like I might be wrong. But I feel like maybe there was a tainted supplement. Man, come on, not better B-V. I think so. I might be wrong. Yeah. You

This is what it was. A typical drug test result. Adverse findings, maybe threatened. What does

“that mean? What does that mean? What does it say? What does it say? What did he get caught with?”

A typical finding is not a violation or requires more testing. B-V underwent those examinations at VOTA request. VOTA reported negative results from the follow-up test. So what was the positive test? What does that mean? Yeah. What do they mean? Oh, here it goes. He received a typical findings for human growth hormone. And five D and DRO stand a dial. Both occur naturally in the body. When an A typical finding is received further testing is required to determine if an

athlete naturally produces the substance in his body. His or her body at a greater level in the

average or elevated levels, which were signs of anti-doping, interesting. Okay. So it could just be that he just has naturally high levels of HGH and this 5D and DRO stand a dial. So that might be what it is. Or could be some sneaky shit. You know? I mean, did you ever see the documentary Icarus? This is a great documentary about the drug scandal in the Olympics in Russia. And so this was what was this 2016? Which was it, Jamie? Was that the Olympics I was at? Yeah. I was

there. What an A band, a whole Russian T. Exactly. I thought I was 2020 though. They banned the

“Russian team to follow up Olympics, I believe, because of the 2016. So this guy Brian Fogel did”

this documentary. It's a crazy documentary. And the documentary was not supposed to be

2014, went to Olympics. So what happened was Brian Fogel was doing a documentary. So he was a cyclist and a documentary guy. And so he said, I want to do a cycling event, a race, completely natural. And then I want to do it on steroids and I want to document it all. And then you know, make this documentary on what is the difference and just show because cyclings are very dirty sport. Like tour de France, those guys, they put engines in their fucking bike to make it

like easier to pedal. They do a lot of crazy shit, blood doping. So he does this naturally. And then he gets this guy, um, what was his name again? Greg Gregory Rachenko. Who was Rachenkov? Who was the head of the Russian anti-doping federate, but it was really a doping Federation. So what they were doing at the time was, so he starts work with this guy. This guy's telling them what steroids to take and how to get better. At the same time, the Russians get caught.

Like while he's filming all this. And that guy has to leave the country. And that guy spills the beans. And he tells them exactly what they did. And what they did was they took the clean urine. They made a hole in the wall. So the place where they stored all the urine, they made a hole in the wall where they get swap out the Russian urine and swap it in for for good urine. And they found these micro abrasions on the supposedly unopinable bars. And so when they looked at it with a microscope,

they said, they figured out a way to open these jars. So they would pass it through the hole in the wall, open the jar, empty it out, put it in clean piss, and give it back to them. So essentially,

“the entire team was duped up. Yeah. So basically, that's why they say, in the Olympics,”

they wasn't sure if Russia was going to be able to compete, right? Exactly. And so in Brazil, the follow-up Olympics, the next Olympics, the entire team couldn't compete. The cycling team. No, the entire Russian team. All those. So the cycling thing was just this guy that was doing this documentary. And he was using the head of the Russian anti-doping agency to help him do it, pup like openly. So it was just for a documentary. It wasn't like trying to win a race

and cheat. He was like saying, let's see what you would give me and how much better my performance would be. So in the middle of doing all this, this scandal gets exposed. And this guy who is using is at the head of the scandal. And then this guy tells him everything. Yeah. And it's not. Russia did compete in the Olympics though. They did compete in 2016. Russia did compete in 2020. Well, I think they allowed individual athletes to compete.

Whatever the subsequent Olympics was, but they didn't allow them to represent Russia.

didn't have his kind of strong. Well, the Russians, I mean, they were, they were the beginning

“of all this stuff like the Eastern European women weightlifting. They came over to cheat.”

Well, they figured it out. They figured it out early on. They've been doing it a long

ass time. Yeah. So who knows? Yeah. With better beer or any of these guys, it's you've got

“of always assumed that without something like vodka or drug free sport or useada, there's always”

going to be someone who's trying to figure out a way to get a competitive advantage. Yeah, I hate it.

It's gross. Hate it comes with it though. Yeah, it comes with it. It is what it is. So

“anything else you want to cover before we wrap this up? No, I mean, I know something good. Listen,”

man, congratulations on everything. It's been beautiful to watch you fight. I'm a giant fan. And I'm happy to see after the Lopez fight, you get all the respect and the credit you deserve. And I can't wait to see what happens next. Thank you. I appreciate you and I appreciate you. [Music]