1318: Guillaume Dulude | Tribal Truths for Modern Minds

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hoping a tribe doesn't kill me on site. Yeah, me neither. But today's guest, that's a Tuesday. This guy is trekking into the middle of nowhere, no GPS, no language, no backup plan, just vibes, a cameraman, and the faint hope that the local tribe interprets, guy with weapons and gifts, as friendly visitor and not early dinner. All right, today we're talking how you can actually approach a tribe without getting skewered,

why giving gifts can backfire and turn you into a walking Amazon Prime subscription, hunting baboons with a bow like it's casual, and then eating one of the hands, like a snack, getting stung, poison dehydrated, possibly infected, and calling it "healing after a breakup." And just when you think it couldn't get more intense, alligators bullet ants crocodiles that eat children rituals that make frat hazing look like a spa day. This episode is what

happens when National Geographic meets this seemed like a good idea at the time. Here we go with Guillaume Dulude. How would you explain what you do? Because it's easy to say like, oh, he films a reality TV show where he goes and finds isolated tribes, but that's only part of the picture. How you can introduce me as a doctor in psychology, that I do psychology differently. Very differently. I want reality. I want what works in reality. I want proofs.

You call me up out of nowhere more or less, and you say, hey, I have a show where I go, and I walk into the middle of the jungle or the desert, and I find a tribe that we don't know exactly what they're going to be or exactly where they are, and then I just try to live with them for, what is it a couple weeks? Yes, depending, but yes, from a week to two weeks. How did you get the idea

to do that? Because it seems first of all, a lot could go wrong, but I don't know. It's not my usual

vacation. First on the list is not wandering into the Tanzania desert to eat things that I find on the ground. Yeah. It started when I was 20 years old. I was training through the Olympics for swimming. So that was my big dream, and I was not good enough. It wasn't fast enough, and I got hurt, and I lost my funding. My whole life was about sport. When you're involved

“into sports, the only thing you see is sport. You see yourself having a career and you don't have”

any plan B. When I was 18, 20 years old, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. I knew that I loved performance. I loved humans. I loved the brain. That's pretty much it. And so when it stopped and swimming, I asked myself, like, what am I going to do? And I saw a psychologist actually, and that helped me figure out what would be my next step. And then, next step was like, I'm going to try to go around the world with no money. So that's

going to be my first challenge. Try to go around the world with no money, and I'm going to just

rely on communication to survive. So that was the plan. So I'm going to try to talk to people, get accepted by people, go live with them, and see if I can survive like this. So that's how it started. Look, for people who are not watching on YouTube, you're like a pretty big French Canadian dude. Are you just saying, hey, can I sleep in your backyard? How are you traveling with no money? You don't need much money if you know how to create good connection. And if you know how to

“contribute to someone else's life, you need to be valuable. You say, hey, look, I need some help.”

Can I sleep at your place? I'm ready to do that for you. I'm ready to help you out for that. What do you need? And so you create partnerships, and you create relationships, and you create trust. And that's how I got by the first whole year where I did this trip. Oh, you did that for a year. Wow. Where did you go? Did you go to the usual suspects? Or were you traveling to more off the beaten path type of places? Yes, absolutely. I went straight to Africa.

20 years old. It wasn't quite clear yet. But during this first trip, I went to an expedition.

I didn't expedition in Kenya, and I've spent some times with the Messiah tribe. And it truly changed my life. I spent a few weeks with them. And I was sleeping in their little hut. And it was like 1,000 degrees inside the hut. And you sleep with the goats. And it smells horrible. And there are insects coming out of the walls, which is made of mud and shit. The insects are coming out and going on you during the night. And I was sleeping between one guy and her wife and her kid and the

goats. And that couldn't sleep for like a week. And I was like, this is the dream for me. I'm living something important. And I didn't exactly what it was. But I knew I put my finger on something. And I was hooked. I was like, I want to know how do you live traditionally? Where

“we come from, as human beings? And I think that's always been my quest. Who are we? Who am I? Where do”

we come from? What's the future? If we know where we come from, can we make a better future? How do we think? How must we think? I was hooked. So the rest is history. Have you seen that Instagram account Messiah boys? It's like these four or five guys from that tribe. And they go to New York or whatever. And they're like, trying to eat pizza and figure out how to eat pizza. It's really funny. Because they're really from Kenya. It's not larping. They're not cosplaying. Most of their

videos are from Kenya. And I guess I don't know how it happened. But somebody was like, go to New York and come try pizza and stuff. And they're just like really out of place. Because they're wearing traditional tribal, we almost like a cloth road kind of thing. And they're walking around Manhattan and they're just like trying to communicate what that looks like to them. And you can just see it in their face. There's a time squared. We don't have this in our mud hut in Kenya. That's the inverse. They're

doing the opposite of what you're doing. Yeah, it was kind of funny to see. This is an incredible

adventure that you went on. So okay, so you find yourself in this mud hut, you find yourself

“inspired to do more of it. Did you stay in Africa for a while? Was that the plan?”

Yes, I spend maybe six months in Africa during this first trip. And after I went all the way up back up to Russia. And just before that to Ukraine and I got a kind of an infection to my foot. And by the time I arrived to Moscow, it couldn't walk. Oh, dang. So I went to the hospital in Moscow. And it was like a nightmare. First, I wasn't the waiting room. I don't know what to expect. And there's a guy like mopping the floor, you know, eating an apple. And it was like, okay,

it's your turn. I'm like, okay. And the thing guy sits down and is like, so what's up? I'm like, is there a doctor? Yeah, it's me. The doctor was mopping the floor and eating an apple. Oh, my. Okay, your doctor. Cool. Are you sure? Yeah. The guy looked like 22 years old. And I was like, you sure? Does you have a supervisor or anything? So it's not out of the, that's me. I'm the chief here. It's like, oh, okay. And you'll just look at my foot and

said, okay. So I'm just going to cut you open this afternoon. Like, look, I have the back back. I'm walking. Just give me some antibiotics or something. He says, no, I'm going to cut your foot.

Are you going to lose your foot? I want a second opinion. Yeah. But that's it. It was like,

don't you have like a surgeon? Like, he says, yeah, I'm the surgeon. Oh, you're the surgeon. Yeah. Like, okay, he says, like, I have a trip. I need to go to the cottage to do some horseback

“riding in the afternoon. Some busy. So if I could cut you up right now, some like, what the hell?”

So I go to the surgery and there's like nothing. And I go into table and he says, look, the anesthesiologist cannot be there because he's busy. So we're going to just do it without. And I'm like, are you serious? You says, yeah, this is what year is this? 2005. Because this sounds like Siberia 1955. Yes. This is crazy. Okay, sample size of one, but this is the hospital Moscow in 2005. What is the hospital like in Novosibirsk in 2005? I have no idea. Or is it just

like they don't have one? Or a similar setup except for the guy is also drunk. But he's a dentist. And he's a dentist. And he's, you know, so I'm on this table. And they want to cut my foot. And there's like a nurse. She's eating gum like this, like twisting it around like this. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to die, but it's not up to me anymore. And I go on the bed and they start cutting me up. I'm trying to film myself because it's running so much. I'm trying to focus

to do a task. I'm trying to film myself. I'm filming the surgery while it's happening. And I taped my camera on my hand because I'm fainting. So I'm fainting like that. And I'm filming again.

are you all, I like that Canadian? You know, like Winpy passing exactly. Exactly. Surgery with that answer. Yeah. And at the end, he just cut me open. And after he says, okay, so where's the wire? Did you bring the wire? You might do what? The wire to stitch me up. Oh, it's b-y-o. See, bring your own stuff. Bring your own medical supplies. That's the thing. It's free, but you bring your own stuff. I didn't know. So he says, okay, so we're just going to put stuff in it into the your

foot, into the cutting. Like what stuff? What do you mean stuff? Like, like a newspaper. Almost just people, like just like cotton or something. And you just put it inside and he didn't stitch me up because I didn't bring it. And I spent like a week and a half there. You think he would

“check before he cut you open. Hey, you brought the wire that I need to sew you up with, right?”

Nah, that slipped his mind. I want to hear from my Russian listeners, is this normal or did you just go to the worst hospital in all of Moscow? Because look, we've all heard about the Soviet Union and Yadiyada. This is 2005. Is that a normal experience? Because that's actually crazy to me. I don't think so. Like even to me, like thinking about it, it doesn't seem real. There's no way that's the standard. It just can't be BIO medical supplies in 2005 in Moscow. I would expect

that type of thing to happen in rural Kazakhstan where you've also been or something like that. Hey, we don't really have a lot of doctors here. We're going to make do not. This is totally normal. And everybody knows that this is what it's like. No, even a regular doctor's office, at least as medical supplies. So this did not dissuade you from traveling. It made you want to do it more.

Yes, you're wired differently than most of that. I would never do that again, of course,

“but I'm addicted to discovery. I think I'm addicted to new cultures, new experience. And”

the whole psychology around the culture, it was too late. And no matter what, if they cut me open, I'm going to keep doing it. I guess you're lucky. You still have your foot after this experience. You don't have a big scar, but yeah, that's crazy to me. When I arrived in Thailand, like a month later, it started to get swollen again. I just got some antibiotics and in two days it was gone. And the doctor there told me like, it was absolutely pointless to cut you off. For sure, of course,

it's not a real medical procedure. So I feel like you just found a random janitor who was like, I'm going to tell this guy a doctor. It's possible. I'm going to cut him open because I was sick bastard and then not so in back up and just see what happens. So the little dicey, I don't know. I'm going to go with that. It's not the usual experience. Okay. And we're going to flash forward a

“little bit because I watched every episode of the latest season of your show. So this show,”

I've never seen anything like it is the name just tribal tribal. Okay. I watched it with subtitles,

which thankfully your wife was kind enough to create for me. I've never seen anybody do this. Now I've never seen anybody go in just wandered into the middle of nowhere and show up essentially on the doorstep of a tribe and just be like, hey guys, I'm going to hang out with you for a week. It just seems like a dangerous kind of thing to do. So the first episode one, Hadsabe, where are they? Because there's a drone shot or something. If there's nothing around you, you're a dot

under desert. It's in Tanzania. The capital is Arusha and it's a thing a hundred kilometers, at least from there. So it's in Tanzania. It's quite remote area. It has to be tribe. It's one of the last tribes of hunters and gatherers today. Still living traditionally. They're probably the last one with bows and arrows. So nomadic are they nomadic? Yes. So they come back to some huts for certain parts of the year and after they pack up for another part of the year

and they move out because they eat also fruits and roots. So once they have eaten everything around, they move around like this. I see. Man, it's crazy when you go to this place. First of all,

you said never arrive empty handed. Yes. Which is a rule we still have today in most cultures.

And you buy this chicken and I was laughing in the first probably five minutes of the episode because the car drops you off. The road ends with whatever you would call a road. It's like a dirt stretch. It ends at some, I don't know, maybe it's a farm or something. And you're just like, all right, buy and you're walking and you're carrying like a cardboard box with a chicken in it. And I'm thinking to myself, you don't even know where you're going. You don't know where they are.

And they're going to just see this big white dude with a bow and arrow and a freaking chicken. What is your plan? The plan is before I get there. I don't go randomly and just walk and try to just stumble upon the tribe. There's some kind of an intel that tells me like some locals that, oh, they've seen them the last time in this area and this area. So we have

if I cannot see any signs of life like tracks or signs of old fires or footsteps and stuff like that.

Or little massage, little rose where they could walk. But you're doing this on foot though. Like people are like, okay, fine, you know where they are. That's like saying, hey, I think they're in North San Jose. So you're like, oh, I just wonder around North San Jose looking for footprints or burned wood in a pile. You're looking for a needle in a haystack, man. You're looking for signs of human life into desert while taking care of a live chicken. It's so ridiculous in the beginning. I was like,

but to be honest, there's some health and preparation before because as you say, it's fine, someone in the city, find someone in New York. Good luck. Go with your backpack and look around. Yeah, you know, we need to have kind of a good idea of where they might be, but it has to be like within 10 kilometers by 10 kilometers, something like that. And after we have a good guess, and normally people know where they are because they know each other in the jungle and the salana

people know each other even from hundreds of kilometers. Oh yeah, I have a cousin over there in 100 kilometers in this tribe, this village. So they're all kinds of a network and they can direct you.

“So that's why it's good to be able to have good social skills to be able to connect with people”

because people will give you information. So to be able to find someone or a group of people, you need to have a lot of discussion with many people and you get closer and closer and closer. And after like there's this moment where, you know, and we see that at the beginning of the set this old ice cream, I test something and I hear a scream back. That's it, the choice on now. It's pretty damn cool when you're like, I think it's them. And then you're not like,

hey, I'm over here, kind of deal. And then they give you like a resounding confirmation back. It's kind of feel pretty good because how long were you out there wondering around before you found them? Would say a week? Maybe. Oh, wow. Okay. I didn't fully grasp that. I thought he found them like the next day or maybe it was one long day. I didn't realize you were out there for a week looking for them. What did you feed the chicken? The chicken? I tried to get the

chicken at the end when I'm really sure where they can be because, as you say, the goal is to come and to create as fast as possible, the relationship. That's the goal. And the whole survival is based on how can I connect as fast as possible with the highest in the air key. So there are rules. When you get into a place and it multiplies to our world, this applies to you and me right now.

“Every time you come across human beings, you need to understand the Yarky system.”

The hierarchy? Yes, absolutely. You don't have the age sound in French. People are like, what is he talking about? Yeah, thanks for talking. No, I'm not correct. You're speaking fine. I just, I remember when I learned French in middle school, y'all can't say hotel. You just leave the H. Yes, yes. And hierarchy is a hard one without the H. So hierarchy. Yeah, there you go. So I sound like a yanko. Exactly. So I need to make sure that the rooster to chicken was alive.

It's really at the end and you put a little bit of sponge with some water and you try to keep it alive. Because you're going to gift the chicken, right? That's the idea.

So if you show up with a dead chicken or something that's basically on its deathbed,

it's probably not a great gift. I'd say the intention is there. It's the thought that counts. The child counts, you know, humans appreciate that the intention. But if it's dead for a long time, they're not going to eat it. It's all about survival. It's like, hey, good intention, but you already start with a strike because you come here,

“you expect us to feed you. You must take care of you. They're just that way that you're coming”

with the present. That is a dead presence. So you seem a lot of trouble. So you want to come strong. Yeah, that makes sense. So this is maybe this is a dumb question. I don't know. Maybe that's what makes it a good question. Do they normally eat chicken? Because you're in the middle of the desert. Are there desert chickens that are just out there that they catch?

But they know what a chicken is because it's not like they've never seen

a permanent civilization before. So is this like an exotic gift? He brought chicken and all the 10-year-old kids are like dang, and never had a chicken in the adults. Like I've had a few in my life. Is it that kind of rarity? No, it's not that rare, but it's not common either. It's coming from far. It's coming from a town somewhere. You cannot find a chicken around the savanna. So it's, oh, that's a big meal. That's something quite special. It's seen as something special.

Everybody's really excited. And everybody's like, oh, okay. So cool. Thanks. Come. I'm trying to find an equivalent in the United States, and it's really tough, right? Because I got a bunch of bananas behind you, but those aren't growing anywhere near here. But the supply chain is such that nobody's going to be blown away by the fact that I've been in my kitchen. I guess it's maybe like if somebody brought kangaroo meat, and was like, hey, man,

we should smoke this. That would be very unique. And I've probably maybe had it a couple of times in my

trap, and Australia that pretends to serve Kangaroo meat. So I'm trying to relate it to that. I think it's a classic bottle of wine, like a big wine like, oh, a nice coffee. fancy. Yeah, something like that. We know what it is. It's rare. We can buy it if we're really push it, but now that you're offering it's great. This guy's got good taste, even though he's wearing vibrant five finger toe shoes. Exactly. By the way, those aren't tough to walk in, man. You don't

find those tough to walk in? Actually, that was the first episode. And I wanted to try these,

because I knew that we were going to hunt together. So when you go in both hunting,

“you have to be dead quiet. But I didn't know that I would hunt baboons during the night.”

So that's what I've done with them. And baboons are like so sensitive, and they hear everything, they see everything. And so you need to be very quiet when you're walking. So I didn't want to bring loud boots. So I brought that, but I hated that. Then I took them off like after three days, because it was hurting like my toe. Between the toe. Oh, yeah, because all they have between the toes is like a little bit of nylon. Exactly. Yeah, they do not hold up. Well, I remember being like,

I'm going to wear these because feel like flat feet. So I'm like, my feet feel so good. And they would just get shredded after like two months. And you're like, wait a minute, these are expensive. Yes, it. Yeah. So you get your bow and arrow. When you see them, they're not concerned that a white dude who's essentially armed is wandering into their land. It seems like they would be a little bit like, hey, what's his intention here? That's where psychology comes into play. So when you meet someone

anywhere, it's your job when you're communicating with someone to understand the state of mind of the person and to be able to create the right communication. So it doesn't increase anxiety. So the first

“thing that you must neutralize is anxiety. So why would they be anxious? All kinds of reasons. They”

don't know me. They don't share my language. I'm weird. I have all kinds of gear around me. Am I a threat? Why am I here? So everything new in general for humans are considered a threat. And it will rise anxiety. So my first job before this teamy just when they hear me hear my voice and acting to reduce their anxiety. That's my first priority. So much that even when they're going to start looking at me, right then I must show them the right signs to lower anxiety. So there's a way to do that. For example,

I will create eye contact, but really from far and I will mimic their body language. Okay, if they start moving forward, I will start moving forward. If they stop, I'm going to stop a bit. But I'm going to keep the eye contact. I'm not going to keep moving. I'm going to make some sign until I got the permission to move again. Every movement counts. If you move wrong or at the wrong timing, all they can see is the threat is the bow. I'm white. I'm new. But if I give other things and the other information to process,

that's going to take over. And so anxiety will go lower and relationship will go higher. So you're

going to make a cross like this. So when you meet someone, you always want to have this cross.

You want to increase vulnerability because vulnerability triggers relationship. You cannot make up relationship. You cannot create relationship. It's a result of a process. But you can control vulnerability. And if you increase vulnerability, relationship follows because relationship is a compensation mechanism for vulnerability. So you cannot directly create vulnerability, the relationship. So you lower anxiety. You increase vulnerability. And this is why you don't feel the threat.

And it feels like, oh, it was easy. I worried for nothing. No. It's because everything was there at every meal of seconds. So yeah, your waist deep and crock-infested water. Two days from the nearest doctor eating mystery seeds from strangers. And suddenly you remembered you needed a discount code for some flavored water. Let's fix that. We'll be right back. The episode is sponsored in part by ORA frames. ORA frames is perfect for the family memories

that are a little chaotic in the moment. A lot of funnier later. We just got back from a family cruise, where Jen and I got hit with food poisoning like the first meal, which does not

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moms because even when you feel awful, you still have to somehow keep it together for the kids. And Jen was dealing with stomach cramps, making an emergency bathroom runs, feeling absolutely miserable, still helping make sure the kids were having fun and such a mom thing to do. So now, yeah, I know what people are like, oh, you didn't even know. I also had it. And I also did that. So but anyway, that's beside the point. Now we look back at the trip. We remember both sides of a

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excluding iPhone 16e and 17e requires eligible plan. Terms are restrictions apply, subject to change, visit ATT.com/iphone or visit an AT&T store for details. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every week, it is because of my network, the circle of people I know like and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing. You've heard this should be all 100,000 times, haven't you? You've heard it a lot.

Fine, six-minute networking.com. Many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come join us. The course is free. No shenanigans. Six-minute networking.com. Fine. Now, back to Guillaume Delude. My wife Jen asks a good question at lunch, which thankfully we ate before because that story about your foot was pretty disgusting. But she asked, what about you bringing diseases and stuff to these tribes? How do you make sure that you don't

bring in, I don't know, COVID or something to a tribe that they equivalent of smallpox, right? That you don't want to give these people, I don't know, something that we have to go take antibiotics for that kills half their tribe or worse. Normally, there are guidelines. The authorities of

“every government have some guidelines if you want to do this kind of tourism. And some government”

do have very strict policies. Some countries do not. For me, I think it's always important.

And you must make sure I don't have any symptoms of anything that I have all my vaccines up to date. And I spend enough time in the country. So I can confirm that I am in a stable state. Oh, so do you go in like a month before and hang out for a couple of weeks or a couple of weeks? If it's possible, yes, but sometimes because of the budget and the shooting and when you make an episode count in a certain amount of days. So ideally, I'm trying to come earlier to spend more

times, make sure I'm stable in terms of symptoms or anything. If it's good, I have to green light and now we move forward. Okay. Yeah, it's just curious. What about predators and stuff? You said you're out there for a week, looking for them. Aren't there things out there that are looking for you because they're out of hungry? And you're chicken. I mean, that's attracting attention from whatever big cats or whatever out there too, right? Yes. That's a good question. And to me, it's

really exciting to be honest. It's exciting. Why is that exciting? Because it's a game. And it's a game that you're in a hierarchy. Yeah, you might not be at the top of the future. Eggs and all the way you're going to fight out is when you get the bad news that you're out at the top of the street. So you

“need to be good at tracking. Do you need to be able to spot what are the dangerous animals in”

a specific area to know their tracks? Ideally speaking. And you need some kind of basic experience

of how to do that. For example, you walk with the wind in your face. Never the wind blowing your

scent forward because it will attract things in front of you. That's not what you want. So you want

always have a priority to know what you can spot before you're getting spot. I guess you also have

“to look behind you and make sure there's nothing following you all the time. And that's why I have”

a bow and arrow. I never carry firearms on that stuff. It's dangerous. It's complicated. And it's not necessary. The laws are probably crazy. I mean, you try to import a firearm that can. Absolutely, I do that. And it's not necessary. If you know how to act, you're supposed to be safe. But yes, there are predators. And you need to watch, especially during the night, you need to know where to sleep. Yes, so we're do you sleep? I don't know. You're hanging from a tree or something like that.

Like, how are you staying safe with your chicken? Yeah, ideally, I like into trees. But I remember for this show, I didn't bring any hammock, so I was just sleeping underground. So what you can do is to find a way where you're sheltered, you're protected at the back. And you can put some trees,

some bush in front of you to create an kind of a wall and always a fire. Normally, when you

you have a fire, it's going to keep the animals away. It would be so hard to keep a chicken safe in an environment like that. It's like having a baby with you, although you, of course, you'd care more about a child than a chicken, but you're trying to get something to try to keep things away. It's like, when you're camping, you don't keep your food out because bears will get it, so you get a bear bag, but you have a live chicken. And it's just like such a pain, and it's making noise.

“What are you sleeping with this thing? This is crazy. You need to defend your chicken.”

Yeah, you need to defend your chicken or anything you have. Not only the fire does a good job, but during the night, you always kind of sleep on one ear and you're always waking up. There's little noise, especially a little cracks like this. You hear some cracks. Depending of the noise, you can know if it's a heavier animal, or it's a predator. It will create a different noise. So you can get used to that and see, like, oh, this is an elephant, but it's far. It's fine.

Or it's a cave of buffalo, but it's far. And normally cast, you don't hear them. Yeah, you find out when it's going. They're right in your face. It is. Man, is there a camera man or are you filming at all? There's one camera man. So we shut the whole thing. Two people. Okay, because I was going to say, if you're filming it, that's a huge pain because you have to set it up and then climb the tree,

and then get down and then take the camera down. So at least you have that guy help.

Yes, and the thing that was the most important thing for me is the first approach. The first contact with

people. Lions and all that stuff, it was not the main priority. The main priority is it has to connect. It cannot not go well. With all this trouble, the safety is the safety of the relationship with the people you meet. So this has to go well. So for example, when I meet people, there's always a rule with the camera man. So he knows exactly what to do. When I'm going to give him special sign where to look when it's time to put the camera forward,

keep the camera backward. So there's certain steps that he needs to respect. So I'm going to give him the cues like, okay, you can follow me. Okay, put a camera down. Make eye contact. Okay, that's the right time. Put the camera up. Now it's good. It's all little details that

“goes really fast, but the goal is to never obstruct the relationship process. That's what you want to”

do. I had some questions about that somewhere later on my notes, because I'm thinking if you're meeting them and the chief comes out and is like eyeballing you and he's got a camera that's behind you and he puts it in that guy's face, that's going to just blow the whole thing. The guy's going to be like, who is this freaking guy? And what is this thing? I assume that things can go wrong really quickly, and then they just don't want anything to do with you. Absolutely. And

respect seems just a value. Actually, respect is a science. Respect is a sport. Respect is knowing exactly which line you're supposed to cross and win. And the only way you can know that is by observing the other person. The other person will give you the answer and what to do and the timing of certain things. So when I have certain signs, I know that it's safe to, for example, live the camera a bit or move forward or bring the camera in. Next to me, otherwise it's not safe.

So I need to have the right authorization and I need to have the right authorization of the right hierarchy. So I don't need any authorization. I need to know where the order is coming from. And sometimes it's hard to tell because you come here, right around like who's the boss who's leading here. And it's not always obvious. Most of the time, it has something to do with age. The older, the better. Because age means that you have overcame many challenges and there's a lot of

respect related to age and experience. So normally you're going to look at the older person or the most decorated person. You'll see if this is the person in the authorities, you want to create their relationship. First with this person, and after it's going to go down to the hierarchy. Yeah. Have you ever met up with a tribe and they're like, "Hustle or anything? Is that what happened?" "Hustile, no, but very resistant." Yeah, resistant. Probably a better word.

Yeah, otherwise you'd have a hole in you right now. But yeah, you need to be careful. I

It's, hey, I have good intentions, but the world doesn't work with intentions. Did I read something in your face that I wanted to or not? It's not, yeah, but trust me,

“inside myself, I have a good intention. It doesn't matter. So safety wise, you need to know when”

people have problems with you and you need to keep your distance and you need to show them that they will lead. If you're trying to do too much, even with good intention, you can get hit in the face.

So you need to always show that you understand their rules and you play by their rules and you're

always listening to them. If they feel that you're always listening and responding in a way that they want the anxiety will lower vulnerability in relationship will increase. But sometimes it's long. Yeah. Some society has been invaded, has been tortured, and had bad relationship with tourism, and other people. So you need to be sensitive to that. Sometimes you can't know, but in which you can't see is to read the right mechanisms in terms of psychological mechanisms

and behavioral mechanisms, and you can't see that. So an example is you gave a plenty, but like how you approach slowly, there's one where you waited for the chief to smile before smiling back at him. My instinct, not that I've ever met at a tribe in the middle of nowhere, but I'd be like,

"Oh, just be really smiley." And then they'll like me or find me vulnerable, but it's not

it's not quite how you want to handle that. Now that you mentioned it, it's saying like that, it's true that it's weird because we feel that because we have positive intentions, it should work. Not really because there are all kinds of reason why you would be smiling, but it doesn't mean that the reasons are good for me as well. That's a good point. Yeah. So when you're interacting with someone,

“you can't feel whatever however you want, but you need to ask yourself like, "What is the state,”

the mental state of the other person?" And if you put yourself in his shoes or her shoes, how this person will understand my smile? What does it mean? And if it's not clear, it will increase doubt. Like, "Where are you laughing at?" I don't see. So you can increase the doubt just because

you just did a small facial expression at the wrong timing. Normally what I like to do is that

I just listen to the other person. And I just wait that this person is showing me the emotional direction where we're going. So if the person, for example, is really not in a good mood very serious. I'm going to keep it like this. I'm going to keep the distance. I'm going to keep get pension on the other person, but I will mimic normally, but not artificially mimic, not just like a robot, not like that, but I want to show the person that I get how he feels. I don't

maybe understand everything because I don't know this person, I don't know the culture, art, a language, but I'm going to mimic that. And if, for example, the other person loosened up and smiled, I'm going to follow the vibe. And this way, you tell the other brain like I'm following your lead. No matter where you go in your head, in your heart, physically, I'm following you. So I assume as people say, okay, so you will obey. You're not a threat anymore.

So that's the trick, but subtle. This is interesting. It reminds me of, if you smile or you laugh, and it's a wrong time, it'll increase doubt. You ever seen a video of Tom Cruise just having an interview. He laughs wildly, a very weird things and weird times in its thick. It's obviously just fake. Like he's doing something. I don't know what, but he's acting performance. Yes, it is so bizarre, and it doesn't make you feel like, look at this relatable guy. What you're thinking, at least what I'm

“thinking is something that's wrong with this person. Like he's mentally not all there. That's what I always”

think when I see him on Oprah or like in a Scientology video or something that I'm researching, I'm just like, this guy has got screws loose. Yeah, you probably wouldn't want to communicate that to a tribe where you're like, hey, can you let me into your house? I don't want to live with you for a week. Yeah, but this is what I mean by respect. Respect is about knowing exactly what you must do at a certain timing according to the rules in place. Do you don't know the rules? The only thing you can know is

how to read someone. What do you know about the tribes beforehand? Hit the Wikipedia. Okay, fine. But what else? What do you know? Do you know what they eat? You know their history? How much research are you doing before you meet them? I do as much research as possible because I've been in maybe 50, 70 tribes in my life. Oh, really? Okay, because I saw five, I assume that there was seasons prior, but I didn't know it was like dozens and dozens. That's my best sport to meet people,

creating relationship, reading people and analyzing people. I love it. That's really cool. Yeah, I didn't realize you'd done so much of this. That's a pain. Yes, I'm trying to read as much thing as I can because it's going to help with empathy. Empathy is accelerated. If you have more information to understand the other person's reality. So you're going to do research where they live what their history, long history, recent history, is it the heart period for them right now?

tribal wars. And nobody talks about that. And you cannot know. It's not making the news paper. No, but sometimes you need to be very careful. I got some really weird surprises in Papua New Guinea, which is not on the TV show, but I saw someone getting his head cut off right in front of me because there was a war between two tribes, one tribe killed one person of the other tribe. And so instead of seeking revenge, the compensation, 30 pigs to repaid in life, but the compensation didn't work.

And so there was still a conflict. And I saw someone just putting the ax on someone's head. So you

“need to be aware of that. That's why it's a real jungle. You need psychology. You need to read people.”

The answers are there. Trade you this white guy. If the pigs didn't work out, we got this white guy you guys might be interested in it. We got this. You want that? Oh man. So this tribe can't believe we're still in episode one. It's so interesting. They offer you some seeds to eat initially. How do you know that's safe to eat? Did you know what that was? Or were you just like cool? Guess so. It's all anvil of these. That's good question. The question is, what's going to help me survive there?

Without a doubt is relationship. You have like timings or special opportunity. You can boost the relationship. And how to do that? You increase the vulnerability. How do you get vulnerable? You take a risk. If you take a risk and you put your health in their hands, you show an extreme amount of vulnerability.

And it's going to score relationship like nothing. So especially in the first minutes we have more

energy. Emotional energy is going well. Anxiety is getting lower. There's a momentum when you meet someone. And I want to keep this momentum. So if I refuse this present because oh wait, what is this? I'm not sure.

“You slow down the momentum. Is there a gluten in here? Is that gluten? I'm lactose intolerant. How many calories?”

So it's like there's an opportunity there. And so there are sacrificing food. They are vulnerable. They're sacrificing food for me. And they don't know me. So they're getting vulnerable. It's going to offer. Yeah. And so I must reciprocate the vulnerability. If they become vulnerable, it's like saying like, look, I want to be with you. And you say not for me. Not right now. Rejection, instant, anxiety go up and you feel rejected. The walls are closed off. You can't afford that. So

whatever they will offer, you put that in your mouth and you eat that electric tax. When I was in Peru on one of my crazy trips, there was a shot when I was hanging out with us for a day. And I was walking with him and asking him about stuff and Spanish because he spoke a little bit of Spanish. And he gave me this huge wad of cocoa leaf. And I was like, oh, what do I do with this? He's like, he put it in your mouth. And I was like, oh, man, I don't want to be like no thanks.

So I just put this huge wad of cocoa leaf in my mouth. And I thought I would do more than it did. Maybe I built a tolerance when I lived in LA. I don't know. Yeah, I was like, oh, it was supposed to make you buzz. It basically just sort of gently numbs part of your mouth. I don't know. I remember thinking this could lead down a bad road, man. If I have a reaction to this, or that's, you know, a plant in here that I'm allergic to. But I don't want to be like,

I don't know. I just want to offend the guys hanging out with us, showing us all this stuff in the jungle. And whatever I got you out there. Lucky you. Yeah, lucky me exactly. How do you show them that you want to film? How do you even explain what you're doing? Do they know what the camera is? Or are they like, what the heck is this? It depends where you go. Sometimes they have seen one before, sometimes no. If they know what it is, that's fine. You save some time. But sometimes it's like

there are no words or you cannot really explain what you're going to do with that. And what's the

point? And it's just a machine. The most important thing is that they agree, they accept, they feel

comfortable that we use it. And normally we show them like, look, we take images and we show them their images. Yes, exactly. To say, like, look, this is souvenir. And if you don't want it, we don't use it. If you want it, if you accept, we use it. So we always give them the authority for use it or not. Most of the time, I never film until I have enough of relationship. If the relationship is not established yet, I'm not filming because the camera is stealing from them.

Yeah, it's like I'm here to shoot a film. It's for me. So I'm using you for me. This is a lack of

“respect. So can you cannot do that? No, that's why people hate influencers. Well, yes, I'm here”

working on your freaking filming me. And like, I'm shopping. Why you filming me? So this is a hard stop for respect. You cannot do that until the relationship is good enough. No problem. And you have the green light from the person in authority. And after it's good. And after you can film

whatever you want, but it has to be done in a certain order. You said never start giving things away

other than the initial welcome gift, which is maybe the chicken or some other thing. Why is that? They'll pick you clean or what? Because the way the brain creates relationship is in dire competition

Okay. So if you want to create relationship, you must play on psychological mechanisms only. If you put external rewards or external factors that are high in dopamine, which is something that tastes good, something that creates power, something that is rare, something that is shiny. If all these things are very high in dopamine, if you try to create a relationship and you put a reinforcement between the two to the reinforcement will crush the relationship and you become

“distributor, your vending machine. Yes, dopamine. Exactly. You must never give anything valuable.”

Never. If you give something, it must be with low value. That is always lower in dopamine,

then the relationship itself. So for example, let's say you and me, okay? We build a relationship. The relationship is high. You can give me a present. It can give you a present. As long as it's not like a Lamborghini. Understand, this is too much for what our relationship can take. So there is a ratio between the dopamine aspect of a certain reward and the relationship. And even if you do things perfectly, you can corrupt relationship like this with objects. Interesting. All right. I'll take an

Aston Martin instead of them. That's it. That's the right range. Yeah. It's crazy to me that you don't know what they're saying because in the subtitles that I read that your wife made. Thank you again. They're explaining all these things to you about arrows and poison. But in the moment, you don't know what they're talking about. You're just sitting there and they're like, hey, this one will kill you this one you eat and you're like basically just being polite sitting there in the corner. So you're

inferring everything that you can, obviously. So what happens is that when I want to create the relationship first, the first 24 hours, first two days, I want only me and the cameraman. But I will arrange that the relationship will go through my eyes only. So they will create that attachment with me. And the cameraman is like just an inoffensive thing hanging around. We want it like so he doesn't talk the camera. Nope. Nope. That's interesting because they think

something's wrong with him because he's not talking. No, because the way we design the process is just my friend who is not really talkative. I say, but he's not a threat. He's with me. And if they trust me and I'm telling them like he's my friend. He's with me. It's not a problem because I'm supposed to be in the hierarchy. Okay. So I'm the boss of this thing. Not really. They must believe that I'm the boss. And therefore he's my friend. He's not offensive. So when I start

the first contact, I want them to focus on my eyes only. So the first few minutes, I will tell my cameraman like drop the camera on my contact. And as soon as possible, go back to your camera

“and go hide your eyes. That's why you force the other people to focus their attention on my eyes”

only. It takes more energy to synthesize relationship with many people at the same time. So it's going to slow things down a bit. So what I want is that they focus only on the relationship with me. So I'm going to tell my cameraman to put his head back on the camera. So we don't have much access, but he's fine. He's not a threat. But I will keep the eye contact for me. So once the relationship is strong enough, normally for the sake of the show, there's a translator that will

come on day three, day four. Okay. Because I was thinking, how have you not eaten the poison or cause some sort of epic big misunderstanding if you don't have a clue at the target. Yes. At certain point, we need some verbal language because relationship does not rely on verbal language, but abstract thinking, coordination, naming stuff, objects, categories. It's all mental representation. It's all language. So at certain point, we need that to be able to make a show. But the relationship

doesn't depend on the words at all. He's out there risking death by snake infection or just being politely murdered by a tribe. And you, well, you're saving big on the fine products and services that support this show, two peas in a pod, just saying, we'll be right back. This episode is also

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support the amazing sponsors who make the show possible. They're all searchable and clickable

on the website at jordanharbinger.com/deals. If you can't remember the name of the sponsor, you can't find the code email me [email protected]. We're happy to surface codes for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, that's a geome delude. When the translator shows up, they must be like, okay, we're all dying to know why did this guy show up here? Like, there's gotta be some funny moments because the translator,

“oh yeah, no, everybody's been asking me all day. Like, where did you come from and why are you here?”

Surely even if you're friendly and they got this relationship, you still fell out of the sky with a bow and arrow in a chicken. Absolutely yes. When the translator comes, they do the three, there's a big meeting. Oh, we're going to have more precise information. So now I get more the names. I'm better to understand how they pronounce certain things because sometimes there's the click that yeah, all these things, most names, these tribes have clicks and it's hard to do this kind of

they're all different. They're all different. So it's like, that's cool. You go to another level and

you love language as you mean. It's always so interesting. And so you need some help for that.

And when they start telling their story, where they're born, who's their family, they have sometimes many wives. And it's like, okay, you guys are related. Okay. So it's another layers. But for me, this will never have priority, but the relationship does have the priority. Yeah, that's super cool. I know you let them help you set up and teach you things and it's sort of increases hospitality. That's a vulnerability lever, I suppose. In the tribes, most of them

anyway, that you mentioned, nobody's more wealthy than the others. The leadership is mostly based on age, like you mentioned, but people can even switch plans if they want to. But nobody owns a bunch of

“stuff and they're the person's poor. It's pretty interesting how they set it up. Yeah, that's how,”

you know, we come from nomadic lifestyle. It's like the logging are not useful. It's only useful when you start agriculture and you can start gathering things and there's an economy system. But when you just hunt and eat fruits like on the way where you're walking, don't need any stuff. It's just that weight. I remember I think in this tribe, in the morning, they just wake up and they just gather together, they go for a walk, they're going to go to try find something to eat.

So we walk, one behind another and they find a bush with fruits and they all like bees go on it and everything in the bush and it's like empty in two minutes and it's like this bush is finished. You're walking, you find something else. So you have to be quick. Yeah, there's probably some competition who can shoot the most berries in their face. Yes, yes, yes, yes. If people switch plans, how does that work? You just wander over to the next one and you're like, hey, there's no

girls here. I'm looking for a wife. Can I hang out here? It depends of the community, depends of the culture, but what I can assure you is that there are rules. All they have is themselves, us, humans, their family, their community. So everything is structured, families are structured, alliances are structured, the roles, the titles, everybody has a title. There's not random like they all have prestigious titles. Like it's like they're all sitting around the fire and they're going to

say like, I'm the president of this thing. Like it's like a silicon valley startup. I'm the chief experienced officer. Dude, there's four people in your company calm down. That's exactly how it is. It's crazy how similar we behave. All human beings. It's crazy. It's the same tradition, the same concept, the same instincts, but just with new disguise, new costumes. It's the same. You're going to try. They all have like special responsibility and every time I'm stunned, I'm like,

you're, it's like, what the hell do you mean? And sometimes feel like you want to judge. It's like,

come on guys, but that's the culture. And everybody has a special title. They're all special. And they're all proud of themselves. So when you switch one from one clan to the other, one village to the other, you need some kind of agreement. You need some kind of authority saying, like, yes, you're allowed to move in. What are you going to do? Who's your dad? And there's going to be a voting system. Oh, yeah. It's every move is decided collectively. And there's a structure behind it.

It's not look, I'm in love. Everybody else has to deal with it. No, when like your love is your problem. We're in need to survive. We need to organize our resources. What are you good at? Are you good? Are you a good man? I am a good man. Why? Like, what's the proof? What have you done?

Nothing. You're not good. So when you're going to be good, come back. So you need proof to earn

“stuff. You need to actually work in our society. We have this thing called self-esteem. Yes,”

I was going to say this. And totally different take. Yeah, and it doesn't work. Yeah, but I'm special. I'm worth a lot. I deserve a lot. What do you say that? How are you special? You're not special? You're unique, but that's not the same thing as special. You're unique, but you're not special. So when you're surviving in a difficult environment, don't talk to me about how you're special. You are. Don't talk about it. Show me how many cows you have. Show me what have you done. How many

houses have you built? Show me things. And after you will be worth something. And after you can get married and after, but you have to do something. You cannot sell yourself like this. This isn't on a pitch. So here in our modern world, we have this idea of personal value, but it's more potential than value. You actually need to do things. It's a more of a meritocracy in many ways. Yes.

“There's a part where you go with the men and you're making poison for the arrows. They're out hunting”

with these guys with a bow. And I was just think I literally set out as bro. Good luck. Like, here's hanging out in a rock in Africa. Just I've got this. I know you've trained at the bow, but these guys live in die by this thing. They must have been so skilled. And this is what the monkeys, I think. They were shooting the monkeys at night. I'm just think of this is next little difficult. This is not a target range. This is a moving monkey that hears you at his dark.

These guys do stuff that I can't even imagine. They have these bows and arrows that they do themselves and just doing that sitting on the ground. And they can shoot a bird flying in the air. A moving target far away. Easy. Easy. All the time. And they won't miss a lot. It's just like, how did you like? I have like a pulley bows in the compound bow. Yeah. Compound bow exactly. And it's like super strong arrows and all that stuff. Like, I cannot be that accurate. But right,

“the difference is you have to hit the target. So hitting a target with a stick arrow beats”

missing the target with a steel arrow. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they seem to genuinely be enjoying your company and vice versa. Like, it seems like these guys are having a pretty good time.

It would be like, I guess if you were at work one day in a place where you never see anybody new.

And us celebrity shows up to help you one day with a video camera and you're stoked. They seem like really excited. They're showing you how they live. And it must be an incredible feeling to just be in the company of these people who are like, they genuinely accept you. They're like, come hunt monkeys with us and you're like, sure thing. And now you're there doing that. It's like, it never happens to them. It's never probably ever going to happen to them again in their life,

maybe. And you get to do that. You're the one guy doing that. It's pretty cool. This is the ultimate reward to create bond, to create relationship with people so different. It's just, it's the reward myself. That's my draw. Creating relationships, understanding people and anybody can do it. You can train. You can learn how to do that. But it's still when it happens. If you know how to do it, it's a privilege. It's an awesome honor to share these moments

with these kind of community. With anyone, to be honest with anyone, whether it's a tribe and South Africa or anywhere, meaning someone new to go in their home, it's an awesome privilege. I'm surprised they don't want your bow when you leave because this is their survival tool. Yes. It would be like if you hunted all your food with a musket and somebody showed up with a laser rifle from the future. I would be like, bro, when we leave that thing with me, that's pretty

damn cool. Do they ask about that? That's a really good question. Because I'm not creating a pattern where they feel that they can ask for objects. I see. We value a relationship and we don't ask for stuff. Yeah. So they don't do that. But they don't do that because the way we develop the

not like, oh, I want this stuff. I want this stuff. They're just seeing me for me. And so this is very important. And that's a problem in tourism in general. Because tourists go there. A lot of money.

And they want to do good. But the problem is that they're not as good to create the right type of

relationship. And it becomes a mess. Unfortunately, this is how you corrupt villages with tourism. This is bad tourism. Unfortunately, because you arrive with your bling bling all your stuff

“and you say, I'm going to make poor people happen. I'm going to give my stuff away. You must never”

give anything except something that is relevant to the culture. Only this. If you bypass that, you corrupt the whole culture and you corrupt the relationship with you. But for the future people that will come now, they will expect objects. This is how you ruin relationships. The only experience I have that's even remotely close to this is going to North Korea because they had never seen any of things that we had. And so we went to the city and our guides were like, all right, you're in the middle

of town. You're all these kids roller skating around. We can just hang out here that we're going to get some coffee and stuff. And which is rare, usually you don't have downtime. Especially not with locals around. And I had this camera that was like a polaroid that would print also. Yes. Yes. Also, it saved them digitally. So I didn't need the prints. So what I was doing was taking photos of kids. Yeah. And stuff with their permission, obviously. And then giving them the print. And I'm like,

“I'll save my digital copy for at home. And I remember like the word got around in this little”

square. And so all these fathers were in line with their kids. And we would take a picture and give it to them. And one guy who spoke like the tiniest bit of English and other guy's spoke a little bit of Chinese. He explained that they didn't have any photos of themselves with their kids at all. And maybe there were either zero or one school photo of just their kid, no family photos, nothing with them and their son ever. So we were giving them this really cool, really precious,

probably they couldn't even buy it kind of gifts. And no one asked for the camera. They just wanted the print. And even then they tried to pay us in like local money, which we can't even use any for buying anything with. So we didn't accept it. And kids were trying to give us their toys and exchange for the prints. Nobody wanted the actual device. I remember my friend was like, dude, no one's asked you to give that to them or even touch it or anything. Yes, we found that just

shocking. It is probably the same principle. Absolutely. And what is interesting about pictures. It's not just any object. It's a no object that reflects the relationship. Pictures a special object. Yeah. Because there are all kinds of objects that can go in competition with the relationship because it's high dopamine. But this is high dopamine. But it's merged with image of yourself. So it does not contaminate the relationship. The respect remains really high. But I'm really

happy you bring that up because it's one of the rare objects that still fits in the realm of positive relationship. It's one of the only I often think there's a bunch of North Korean dudes in the city of Wanson with a polaroid from my camera stuck on the wall. And it's the only photo they have

“them with their six year old kid at that age. And it's pretty cool that I was able to. I think it's”

touching. It's a souvenir. It's not just like any object. I'm for that. I'm for polaroid. Absolutely. That camera got a lot of mileage to it. You would go to a school and take a picture of one kid and every kid wants a photo, right? Every kid. Once I brought 50 and I thought this was the last old trip in the next trip, I brought 200. And I think I came home with three laughs. It was awesome.

They're no it's powerful. It's powerful. It was alright. It's like everything we want,

souvenirs, history, relationship, a special moment that you will remember. I know it's, I love it. Those little travel camps are like one of the coolest things. I should do that. I'm one of my adventures. Because sometimes you meet that winds or something on these trips or whatever. And that's part of the trip. It's not a random. But they don't go to town and do this. And now, unfortunately, a lot of these, given the shaman have Android phone, he was using like occasionally.

There was no phone service, but I mean, he just had it. I don't know, maybe had a map on it. And I thought like, alright, the world is just almost too modern now for this to matter as much as it did. Look, I come from a place that privilege should be able to say that. Oh, it's too bad he has a phone clothing. It would be more interesting for me if it was still, it was dressing with leaves. In the Stone Age. Yeah, exactly. Now, man, the point at which you're all collecting honey out of this

huge tree with the beehive in it. They're all getting stunned, right? They're sticking their arm in this hive. And you tried it. Even little kids were doing it because they have smaller arms.

What happened when you tried it? I always try to contribute in whatever activities. I'm involved.

I don't want to feel like I'm just like eating their stuff and being bored. I want to try to do

but they let me try. So it's the intention, right? And so I was looking at the guys and everybody trying to get honey inside the tree. You were like the full arm inside and the bees are going everywhere. And it's like Star Wars was got to stick his hand in that thing and you don't know what's going to happen.

“Yes, yes, yes. It's like that, but you're doing it. Or doing it. But here's the thing. You know what's going to happen. You're going to get stunned.”

So it's actually almost worse. Yeah. So I saw like six-year-old kids do it. And I'm like, I'm a grown-up, man. This should be no problem. And I work out. That's no problem. I was almost a Olympic swimmer. I got this. Exactly. I just put like half of my fingers in it. And I got stunned. So hard. Like it was like an electric shock through my whole body. I was like, guys, what are you doing? And there've been thousands of times, like it's nothing. The face and

they're just like this and they're eating honey and a smiling. And after I got like my first huge allergic reaction, because I didn't even know I was allergic to bees. So could it be only a certain kind of bees? Or you just get stunned so many times that you had a reaction. I got tested afterwards. Yeah. I became interested. I thought I would do. And I realized that I'm allergic to all kinds of wasps, bees, and so I'm allergic. Good thing you brought an epipen, because you're what like two

days away from a doctor. At least. And it's the first time that I carried an epipen in my life.

“It's just because the production company said, look, you need to bring back. I'm like, okay,”

if I whatever. Fine. Yeah. Never use this. I used both. Which so you need both for the one reaction?

Ooh, dang. Yeah. Because it wasn't not going away after four hours of the first one. I took another one. How do you get water? That's so funny. Your thirsty, you're so you're asking like, where's the water? And they're going to say like, "I don't have a well or anything, right?" You have to look for it. And they're going to say, "Oh, you need to go to the river." I'm like, "Okay, yeah, fine. Let's go through the river." So you walk for like a couple of hours.

You go to the river and classic. There's no water. The water's gone. And they're like, there's the river. Like, you know, there's no water. He says, "Yeah, but it's the river." It's like, "Why do you think I need a river?" I always get caught like this. I'm looking for a river.

They're always proud. And many places around the world. Here's the waterfall.

Go to a waterfall. Here's the waterfall. Where's the water? Yeah, but there's no water right now.

“You should see it in springtime. Why am I here? But you said you wanted to see a river waterfall.”

Yeah. But yeah, for the water. Right. But we didn't know that. And that's why you said, "Okay, let's just different cultures." Yeah. We didn't know that. So in this special tribe, in this river, there's a way to find water. You need to dig a hole inside the water bed. And there's going to be a little bit of water going up. And you drink right inside the hole. So you dig water. There's some water underneath. Is that dangerous? Because there's

microbes in the ground. Of course, they're used to it. They're used to it. But what about you? Do you use a filtered straw or something? I boil it? Yeah. Okay. Boil it? Yeah. So you're thirsty when you're

down with these things? Oh, yeah. Like, your first thing is a beer. Oh, yeah. And I remember the

beers coming out of this tribe. My face was still half swollen. I was like so thirsty. Yeah. The beer was really good. And it's so hot. So anything cold is just, oh my god, that could I live like the first gas station on the way back to civilism? Yes. It's like, all right. I want all of the ice. Oh, yeah. Oh, cacola in the beer. Yeah. How many? How does baboon taste? Because you ate a baboon hand or whatever. That look kind of like a boany mess. It's quite horrible. Yeah. It looked pretty

gross, man. But they were so happy because they were giving me like the hand and the whole hand, like with the fingernails and the hand is like this. And, and I'm like, where's the food on the hand? And they just caught, you know, the muscle, the tongue muscle there. So you eat that. You have some muscle there. Just eat the fingers like this. My wife eats like that. She would be fine. I'd starve. Oh, yeah. She can take, she can demolish the chicken wing. Yeah. And it was funny

because we hunt this baboon during the night. And so there is absolutely no light at all. I couldn't see anything at all at, but they can't see in the night. They have night vision. And I couldn't even see my hand in front of me. Nothing. They were grabbing my hand. Me and the cameraman were just like following them like this couldn't see nothing. And so they were trying to hunt the baboon, but the baboon could hear us. And so they said, like, look,

your two boys, you just stay there. We're going to pick you up afterwards. So me and my cameraman were just like in the jungle like this, pitch black, just waiting forever like that they're going to come back. We cannot get out of there. They need to come back. So we're like this. And after

It's unbelievable. That is impressive. Do you have a favorite person when you meet new tribes after a while? Like, is there one person you connect with the most? And you maybe your bum when you

get a leave? Yes. For me, I always get attached. I bond quite well with the people I meet. And so

everybody's crying. I cry. And that's hard. Have the people in these tribes ever seen a white person before? Like, I guess if you're old enough, you've been to town to pick up like, I don't know, fishing supplies or bricks or, I don't know, clothes. But the kids probably have never seen anybody who's not in their tribe. Yeah, the pins of the tribes. And yes, as you say, the age, it happens a lot with younger kids or babies when they see me. You start to cry because they

think that I'm a ghost. But that's what they're like. Because I'm white and coming from the other world, the dead. So I'm like a ghost. They see me like, wow, I remember in Papua New Guinea, like everywhere where I was going, like, the kids were like, running everywhere. There's a ghost, there's a ghost. And after, of course, adults, they have move around and they don't think I'm a ghost. So yeah, this can happen. Some of the stuff on the show is pretty nerve wracking. Like, there's one where

you were waist deep in the water. And there's kids canoeing on a log and you're like, oh, hey, guys, and then there's a 12 foot alligator carcass. At what point are you like, wait, that thing was in here with me alive. There's might be another one of those. What killed the 12 foot alligator? Was it a 14 foot alligator? I'm walking through this. And they're on a boat. Like, maybe I should

“get out of the boat. Yes, I remember that. It was an Ethiopian. I remember correctly. Yes, they have”

big crocodiles there. I think it's a mile crocodile, which are the biggest. Some people went into water like waist deep. They were doing crocodile traps. So they were inspecting traps. And so they either crocodiles. They eat crocodiles and fish, of course. So they're fishing, mostly fishing, but of course, they're crocodiles around. But I don't know. They're just walking. But I was really nervous following them around. Like, and the camera man was just behind me. And we were

looking at each other. Like, yeah, I'm just keep walking. And no, it's really scary. Yeah, I don't know if I can handle that. I wonder how you learned so much about nature. Because there's a point where you come across this termite mound and it's 30 feet higher, or whatever, 10 meters high. You know, like, oh, they can be twice that. And you've got to be careful around them, not because there's termites, but there's snakes that eat them and sometimes they're inside these things. By the way,

that thought this was fascinating. The snakes are there because birds come to eat the termites. And snakes have learned that the birds come to the termite mound. So they hang out. So it's not the snake's eating the termites. It's the snakes eating the birds that eat the termites. But where do you learn stuff like that? Is it from the tribe or what? Yes, when you spend a lot of time in nature and you talk with people that live in nature, they're going to teach you so many things.

And I love animals. I've always been interested by animals. And so I remember once I was sitting

“on one termite mound and one of the tribesmen, I remember said, you should get up. I'm like,”

why? It says, there's a hole inside this termite mound. Okay. So it says, probably there's a snake inside it. And like, wow. And also, it's maybe 40 degrees. It's just nice and cool in there. Yeah, it's cool inside and they come out at night. So you can get bitten easily. Scary, man. Nature is like unforgiving. It's unbelievable that you're going to miss all that if you don't know what you're looking at. And for me, when I see some an expert in nature and can describe everything you see in

nature, for me, the same thing when I look at someone in psychology. So many things you can't see, I know what to look. Yeah. If you don't know you're going to sit on a log or next to a crocodile or you can see all kinds of things. When you learn what to look for, what to see, the world becomes interesting and full of potential. You know, safety wise, it's dangerous. When you're not in control of your things, it's dangerous. You need to keep control. You need to stay alert at all times.

Do you know, moreover, it's full of crocodiles. Full of crocodiles. So you're not going to go there to wash up. The protocol when they wash up is that they're going to have two guys with two rifles, two Kaleshnikov looking for you. And while you're going near the river and wash. And if they see a crocodile coming, they will shoot around you to make their crocodile jump. So you know where they are.

“So taking a shower, it's a big adventure. You need two rifles. You need bullets. And you need to be”

really fast because crocodiles, they eat people, they eat children, they grab people by the face, pull it from their water. So the shower time, it's a big expedition. Yeah. Now we'll get back to how you avoid getting shot with a poison narrow by people. You just met super relatable stuff.

But first, let's talk about something equally life-threatening. For getting the support this podcast.

We'll be right back.

Custom those tests of Shopify, point the E. Don't forget about our news letter. We bitwiser. It is specific, practical and a less than two minute read. Just about every Wednesday. Not quite depends how we're feeling that week. You know what I mean? If you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It is a great companion to the show. Jordan Harbinger dot com slash news is where you can find it. Now for the rest of my conversation with Guillem Dulude. Don't you start to stink out there? Those guys are used to being out there. They probably have a body

biome that sort of resists. I don't know. For me, I work out if I don't shower that day by night time. And I'm not a smelly guy. But by night time I'm like, Oh, yeah. So if I was out somewhere for seven days, I would definitely smell worse than any local guy hanging out in the jungle or the desert. I remember once when I wasn't Papua New Guinea, I was in a community called the Hela tribe. It's not the wig men. They're all painted. That's cool. And they have a artificial wig

made out of plants. They all have plants and colors. And the chief of the village, I've never smelled

something stronger in my life. I could know where it was like at 15 meters. Oh, so they also smell. Yes. Okay. I just for some reason thought that they didn't. It's just they don't notice. It's normal. And so it's

“like France. It's I don't know. But you get used to it. Yeah. And you don't smell it anymore. So I think”

anybody, not used to it. It's things like crazy. But after a couple of days, you don't smell yourself. You know, smell others and it becomes normal. Yeah. Oh, man. I don't know why I guess I just assumed if you grow up out there, your body bacteria doesn't smell anymore because it balances out. But I guess you just you grow up with it and you don't care. Just like sleeping with the goats. Like they still

think. It's just normal in one nostril and out the other. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. Man. The

arm guards for bathing. Oh, man. You stink. You know what? I don't want to go to the river and get bitten the face by a crocodile. So deal with it, pal. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But they still need to go there every day to get water. So like women go there with their children wrapped. And so they need to be careful. The technique is when you don't have a rifle, what you're going to do? You're going to throw rocks where you want to get the water and see if something jumps. If there's a crocodile,

there is going to jump where you're going to see is going to go up to look. If there's nothing, you can take a chance. And so grab the water. Crocs are so fast. I was in this a long time ago. I was in Costa Rica and we went surfing and there was like a river that goes out into the ocean.

“It's really muddy. So sometimes these crocodiles from the river will go into the ocean. And I think”

they turn around and go back in the river. They're like lost at that point. But they're like, oh, you don't want to surf pass like this point because sometimes crocs go out there from the river and bubble. And then so we went and got coconuts because there's guys that sell coconuts on these bridges that go over the river. I was like, oh, man, what's down there? Because it was just grass. And I saw a crocodile on the river bank. And I was like, oh, there's a crocodile down there. And my

friends, like, there's a lot of crocodiles down there. And I said, well, let me see one. And then the guy was like, are you done with your coconut? And I said, yeah, and he goes,

watch this. And he threw the shell into the water. The second, the millisecond, the shell hit the

water. The whole river erupted with crocodiles. There was, I don't know, a hundred crocodiles in this river. And they all went to go grab it. One of them got the shell realized it was just a coconut shell and like slowly the real access to its jaw and then just sank. And I thought to myself, there's a zero percent chance of surviving even being near this river. There's no way. So I can't imagine having to go to a river like that for your water. And you're just like, all right, throw a rock in

there and they'll jump. And then you look where they didn't jump. And that's where you go get the, I like that's just another level of survival on predictability and just like it's nightmare fuel. It is. They were so fast dude. What are the rainstorms like out there, man? It's got to be crazy.

“I love a good rainstorm, a good thunderstorm. I feel like you must see some crazy stuff out there.”

Because on those planes, it's got to rain a ton and the storms are probably like insane. It depends where you go. It depends the time of the year. When it's dry season, sometimes it's dry season for a while. Sometimes for years. For example, in South Africa, there've been in the drought for the last 11, 12 years. So it's not raining much. Normally, there are cycles. So sometimes like it's dry for a couple of years and after it comes back. So it's back and forth like this.

Sometimes like when they're rainfalls, you can fill up this glass just like this in a few seconds. But you got to be in the right timing. So it depends where you are in Africa. It's a bit unpredictable. I think we've really badass to sit there and watch a lightning thunderstorm with just nothing else around. Have any of the tribes you visited? Do they have any of those coming of age rituals that are like

Did they make a glove and then they put bullet ants in there and then you like shove your hand in

there for as long as you can to prove your tough? Yes, every traditional community has really important transition rituals to become adults, most of the time. And most of the time, especially for men, it involves pain, most of the time. And most of the time, they will have circumcision, right? Yikes. It's way worse that you can't think, okay? I've been invited to one to watch that. What age are they when they do this? When they feel that they want to be a man,

so like 10 or 13 years. Yes, something like that. Oh my god. I remember one tried the best on it's tribe, the one walking with the crocodiles in the water, okay? This tribe. I remember one guy

“was explaining to me that if you want to become a man, you need to get circumcised.”

But you need to have a successful circumcision. And like what do you mean successful? It's like when you're going to be cut up, you must not cry, flinch. You must not have any emotion, any facial expression otherwise you're weak and it's going to follow you the rest of your life. So you're getting caught with a piece of rock, a piece of knife, and you must not move.

Flinching is not the right word. I am cringing, but that's horrific. First of all,

it seems like the person doing it can either make it fast or make it slow or use a sharp knife or use it not, so I mean, even if you went to a hospital with a scalpel and a skilled doctor, if you didn't have anesthetic, you're still going to flinch. Probably even if you did have anesthetic, you would still flinch if you were watching somebody circumcised you're just looking at someone you're going to flinch. I'm flinching watching somebody else go through this, probably.

That's crazy to me, man. Like rituals and transitions are a big thing at the center of traditional cultures and I have a good story for you. Yeah. Once I brought seven clients with me in a tribe, sign clients because I do psychology workshops and all that stuff.

“And I said, look, guys, if you want to do something special, we could do something special,”

get circumcised, but where it happens, I brought them Ethiopia to the crocodile tribe. And what happened is that I explained to them all the rules, communication rules and all that stuff, but there was one girl that is a bit personality disorder, very tall, very beautiful, very charismatic, neat, fat tension all the time. And the son of the chief of the village, fell in love with her. She likes the attention. So the last day, the last evening, the next morning

we're supposed to go back, but we need to be escorted. We don't know how to go back by foot. We need help from the chief of the son. So we need him, but the guys in love with one of my girls, you know, one of my clients. And so the last night, it was drunk. He brought some alcohol, like weird alcohol, and to the village. So the whole village was drunk, which is really bad sign. It's not good, because it can go wrong really fast. They all have guns. They all have

collision a curve. They all starting to drink. They don't want us to leave the next morning. So my clients, they're not aware of it, but because I have experience, I know that there's maybe a big problem, dangerous situation coming up. So I'm just looking at that and like, how will I get out of there? So I'll just sell her to the tribe. Easy peasy. So it's eight o'clock, and everybody wants to sleep. And so eight o'clock, the chief, the prince, he's waking us up,

like, hey, wake up, not really never talks to us like that, because it's very respectful.

“And now he's drunk, weird. Not all my clients are like, oh, this is weird. What's going on?”

And I'm like, okay, guys, follow my lead. For exactly what I'm doing. So he just smiles. Just follow. Just say exactly. Don't show that you're afraid. Just smile. Just smile. Just not. Don't panic. Don't make him feel rejected, because this guy is not accepting to let go this girl. So if we all reject him, he's going to rebel against us. He will try to control us by force, and it's very dangerous. You don't have no idea what they can do. There are no rules here. We're absolutely alone.

There is nobody that knows exactly where we are. And so we go there. You want us to sit right in the middle of the village. And everybody's afraid. I'm like, don't show that you're afraid. Just say relax. Smile. Just follow my lead. I'm just trying to see what he's going to do. And he brings life goat. And I'm like, oh, Jesus, this is the sacrifice time. Everybody's like, what is

goat. All right. And probably we're going to have to eat it. And they're like, no, I don't want to eat it.

“There's no choice. So just not smile. People are drawing. It's not good. So they kill the goat.”

That blood goes everywhere. And so one girl is not feeling bad. So I just tell her, like, just close your eyes. Just pretend to sleep. I'm like, now we must make him accept that he's going to lose the girl. And we're going to leave. He's not ready to accept that. So if he feels that we reject him right now, we are dead. We must feel close instead of going away from him. We must stay close to him. Even though we're afraid, even though we were don't want to eat anything. You're not hungry at all. Stay close.

And so he cooks the goat and nobody's hungry at all. And he drops some pieces of meat in front of us and nobody wants to eat. I'm like, you eat. You fake like eating. You're happy. You're happy. Good. Good. Just keep eating. Everybody's happy. Make him happy. He's just grieving right now. Just let it just relax. Don't drink alcohol. Don't accept alcohol. We need to make the party go down. And so after a couple of hours of fake eating and stuff like that, the mood goes down.

Everybody gets tired. And we go make a big group hug to the prince. Yeah. And now he was okay. It was one of the scariest moments because it's not for me. It's the security of everyone. Sure. Yeah. So the next morning, you accept it to walk us back. But that's the moment I said,

I'm never going to bring anyone with me anymore in any tribe. I don't blame. I'm surprised

you did that. But I guess there was an experiment. I knew this tribe for many years. It was a safest tribe that I know. But the problem is that this girl, she broke the rules that I said. It's very specific, psychological rule that I explained. There is a distance. There's a way to do it. You cannot give presents. She was giving presents while I was not looking. She corrected the whole thing only one girl. She put us all at risk. Very dangerous. So one mind can put a whole village at risk,

“just with one person. So psychology to me, it's like you have to be extremely precise because”

the brain is very powerful. That's fascinating, man. Some of this tribe's life is viewed differently out there. I mean, one of these called like minji, minji babies. Basically, if the top teeth come in first, they will kill the baby. This is an all the tribes. Obviously, I'm just speaking about one. But I was looking at photos of my kids the other day. I was looking at a photo of my son. And I was like, oh, yeah, before he had any teeth. And that was like, wait, he was probably

like one and a half, maybe like two. I can't remember exactly how old he was. But it wasn't like a new born baby. It's so sad thinking about raising somebody for a year and a half. And then you go, oh, they're top teeth came in. I got to kill him. That's just terrible. Yeah, humans. Yeah, humans believe in stuff. And once there's a belief inside a human mind, it's very resistant. So in their mind, if the top teeth are coming up like before the other ones, it's like the demon that is living

“inside the baby. And unfortunately, you need to kill the baby humans. Yeah, humans believe in stuff”

today. It's funny because, oh, my God, it's just because they're primitive. We also have beliefs here that don't make any sense. Of course. Yeah, of course. In 50 years, we will laugh about that. But right now, we believe in stuff that do not make sense. That does not make sense at all.

So humans, they always believe in stuff to create some kind of meaning. The problem is that sometimes

it's not connected with reality at all. And you can create a lot of damage. Same as today. These cause that clans that you visited were fascinating. And they kidnapped their wives. They also have love marriages. But I found it notable. The kidnapped marriages tend to outlast the love marriages. I thought, like, why can that be maybe more traditional people do the kidnapping, so they're less likely to separate because they have more traditional values.

It seems a little counterintuitive that a woman that you literally kidnapped off the street is less likely to divorce you than somebody who fell in love with you in the first place. This is a really hot topic. If you would ask like what it's all about to someone with certain ideologies today, they will say that it's because women are victim. Of course,

I will never approve kidnapping people. It's just that cultures are complicated. And it's very

easy to judge. It's one of the biggest challenge to me when you meet someone is to avoid judgment. It's very hard because we come with values. We come with priorities. We come with a version of what's good and what's bad. And you're like inside a house with a couple. And they're just explaining randomly like very casual. Yeah, I could not her. And then she was like, "Yeah, she kidnapped me." Like a real kidnapping. Like, not real. Yeah, a real kidnapping.

Yeah, but it's a normal crime when you're getting kidnapped. It's like, "How do you want me to make sense of this?" And for me, when you meet people that are different from you, you go in different cultures and you have this kind of thing in your face. It really forces you to think like, "What's really good and bad? What is your conception of what good and bad? How quick are you to judge?" And of course, we all have our preferences. We all have our values and it's

find our cultures that I like better than others because they fit more with me. It's more natural for me. But it doesn't mean that it's wrong to do something different. And this is hard for us to come and see if that very, very hard. Mariana Van Zeller was on this show. She runs that show traffic on that G. I don't know if you've ever seen this. Yes. She did an episode about, I think it was lousy. Their tradition is also the kidnapped the women. And they'll do it off the street.

The problem is there are also now a ton of real kidnappings from like Chinese gangs,

kidnapping the women and selling them in China. And nobody does anything because here if somebody's going to kidnapped off the street, everybody's stopping. People are going to intervene because it's not normal. But there, since there'll be people who go, "Oh, it's probably a family thing. Maybe it's going to propose." And it's like, no, this is actually just a real kidnapping. That's a bad one. Yes. Yeah. So they're trying to figure out how to deal with it. And there's

these volunteer organizations that are like, stop kidnapping. If you're going to do a kidnapped marriage, arrange this. So it's done like, in out of your home, where there's people that know,

“like, you know, don't do it on the street. And if you see a kidnapping on the street, you should intervene”

even if you think it's a marriage proposal, just in case it's not. So it's like a crazy scenario in

which this is blown up into something that was never meant to be at all. Isn't that fascinating,

like humans make up these things? They just make that up. Yeah. You know what? We're going to do that. It's going to work. And everybody's like, yeah, I think it's good. And they just do it. I'm curious actually. I should look this up. But it probably starts with a folk tale where some ancient prints kidnapped the princess and blah, blah, blah. And then they're like, you know what? Let's just all do that. Let's just all do that because that's how you get a blessed marriage or

something. And then it's like, for a thousand years, they're kidnapping the bride from another tribe. And then it's all good because everybody's happy afterwards and whatever who cares. And then it's like, now, now we live in this civilization where you don't need to do that. But it's a tradition.

“There's a tribe. I think also one allows called, uh, and Vietnam. They're called Hmong.”

It's like a mountain tribe. And during the war, they were on the side of the United States against the communist. So the autonomy of them moved to Michigan, where I'm from. So a lot of the Asian people are not Chinese. They're mung. So they also do this kidnapping thing and not necessarily a bunch in Michigan. But I had a buddy who is also mung. And he was like, hey, if I ever proposed to my girlfriend, would you guys help me kidnap her? And I remember running this by our parents,

mean the other guys. And they were like, hell, no, you're going to get arrested and put in prison. We're

like, no, it's how they do it. And we were in high school. So it's like never happened too young. But

I just thought, man, that's like a bucket list thing. Like, I want to kidnap your wife for you. As long as we're not going to get in trouble for it, I'm in, you know, get away driver. It's surreal. It's like a film. Look, if it's really traditional and it's part of thing and everybody's in on it. The moms there clapping on the porch. Fine. But as soon as somebody starts crying about crying is like, there's maybe something wrong. You know, if maybe

there's a line cross. Yeah. Exactly. No, it's hell, it's scary. You went into maybe a that due to the village. That guy was at least a full head and a half taller than you and you're pretty tall. How tall do you think that guy was? Holy seven, seven, five. How common is that? Because I would think if you live hunter gatherer, you can't get 5,000 calories a day that easily or whatever somebody like that needs to be that big. That was crazy to me. It's the tallest guy I've ever met.

“I think he was so tall. I remember it's a himba. It's a himba village. And I went there and they”

live in it's called a kral. The kral is around circle made out of wood and there's an inner circle and it's built like a cell. I arrived in front of this kral and I'm like, oh, hey, I'm trying to see if there's something you're moving. The kral is really high. The defense is really high. And I see the top of the head like moving. I'm like, are the on top of something and just see the top of his head. He opens up and this guy comes in and is like a giant with a weird haircut. He was so funny.

No, it's rare. It was not common. He was the chief of the village, but I don't know how he got this genetic, but it's unusual. They're not as tall as that. I was curious. Just a calorie has got to be hard to come by. I mean, milk is their base of calorie. So that's most of their diet. It's milk.

women in this tribe doing this, right? That's one of the funniest things I've seen seriously. I couldn't get over that. I had to pause and rewind because I was like, wait, if my understanding

what they're doing, they're basically, they're going to get married, right? The women. And they don't

want to smell bad. So they just like light a fire and stand over it. Yeah, the tall guy whose name is a quiet, that was his wife. I wanted to talk with his wife. You know, I had a translator with me. I go inside a hut and she's starting to fire and do like little powders and I'm like, what are doing? And she says, I'm going to take a shower. So I'm like, where are you like, what? This is a shower of smoke. A shower of smoke, okay? And she says, like, it's between my legs. I'm like, okay, you want to

shower between your legs? It says, yeah, to be clean. Okay, so you want to clean between your legs actual parts with smoke. And she says, yeah, I'm like, why? Yeah, obviously, because I want to be

clean for my man. Yeah, but not to wash with water and she's like, oh, you're crazy. And it's

really crazy to say that to wash with water doesn't make any sense like water. No, you drink water. You don't wash with water. So it doesn't make any sense. There is no in the connection between the shower and water. That's something like, okay, she sits right in front of his little fire with smoke. It's only little smoke with kind of a spice in it. And she puts a cloth over it. So she keeps the smoke in between your legs. And she keeps talking to me like, the showering like this and like,

“okay, and after quiet, the tall guy comes in. And suddenly I'm not sure if I'm allowed. Is that okay?”

She's taking a shower with me. Is that bad? And I'm like, I sorry, quiet. Oh, okay. And after he says, me too, I need to clean up. Oh, okay, you're going to take like a smoke shower. He says, no, I'm going to put fat on me. I'm like, what do you mean fat? He says, look at my necklace because they have big necklaces. I have no fat on my necklace anymore. Look, I'm trying to understand what he's talking about. I'm like, okay, you don't have fat on your necklace. And I said, what you mean,

he says, look, I need my fat. And he takes a little bowl of animal fat mixed with rotten milk and it's black and oily and it smells super bad. That was my next question. Yeah, it's like his oil like this. And I'm like, okay, he says, you see, it's much better. Now I'm ready for action exactly. And I was like, okay, but what happens if you don't do that? He says, everybody's going to laugh at it. I cannot just

get out like this. What will I look like? I did notice you're always beautiful. Yeah. Wow. This is

so fascinating for me, like the reality human beings conceptualize reality and believe in it.

“And this is the standard. You have to see that to believe it's like a smoke shower for lady”

parts and I need to wear all my fat otherwise. It's like going out with no pants on. It's the same thing. The smell in that marital bedroom is gotta be just next level. It's quite interesting. That tribe had some crazy rituals. There was a coming of age ritual. I meant to talk about this earlier. It included having cow intestines put on her head, but then they removed two of her lower teeth with a rock and a stick hammer and then they rubbed cow dung in her hair. I felt bad for that girl.

She had it quite a day. Another really interesting story. These younger girls they wanted to become real women. So in this transition, they need to do a couple of things and switch their hair around. So the hair configuration indicates where you are in the social structure. So when you're a young lady and you have the braids coming like horns at the front, it's because you're still a kid. When it flips and when you change the hair for women for men's

different, now you are a real woman. They were doing this ritual of just before changing their hair.

“First, you must kill a cow. You must take the skin of the stomach. One of the chief of the village”

must read the future inside the skin. Oh yes, you must read the future inside the cows and intestines and skin and blood. After you take that, you put it on top of their head for one day. After that, they must remove two teeth at the bottom of the chief. The way they do that is they call the dentist, but the dentist is just a guy with a rock and a rock. They go like this and they knock the two teeth. I was like, okay, we're going to ask this. That's a huge privilege.

It's not stator. Nothing. It's real. But my camera man is very sensitive. He's very respectful. He might be in the wrong gig if he says, he was like, I cannot film that man. I'm like,

We need to film that. It's a unique thing that we're here for that and we asked and they said,

“it was fine. And he was like, not filming that. And I had to stop everything and like hang on.”

And his name is also Gilmas. He has like, Gilm, get yourself together, man. Come on. We need to film that. I convinced him. But he says, I cannot get too close because I cannot. It's too offensive. I'm like, okay, like zoom. This is the zoom. Yeah, she was having quite a bit. I mean, you feel bad for these people. Oh, yeah. That is extremely painful. And then they make her all dirty with the cow and testes of a done. But the funny thing is that the day after, they're so happy. Yeah, I'm a real woman now.

And they're so proud of themselves and you're like, so everything was fine. Everything you've done yesterday, breaking your face and all that stuff. Yeah. You know, it gets you thinking, do we have transitions here? How do we move on with our lives? What's the social structure or the rituals that push us from one phase of your life to another? We don't really have that. So it's be happy. Have success. Be successful in your life. But it's not really clear on how to do that in our

culture. In other cultures, it's clear. And so, yes, it looks like it doesn't make sense for us.

And it's tough in it's suffering. But for them, they're proud. I've never heard someone of my

entourage saying, like, I wish I'm going to be circumcised. Rock. You right. But young men ask that because they want to be in that club of real men. So it's quite fascinating. So what's the next project, man? What are you working on now that you could talk about? I'm working with my wife. And I would like to show the origin of love, the origin of men women relationships. And I would like to understand in the most remote places in the world how the selection happens, how in men

select a woman, how women select a man, and how they build a relationship together. So the origin of love, the origin of intimate relationship, and how the environment influence what kind of partner you choose. So depending on where you live, what are the challenges, depending on the environment, you're going to need certain skills. And it influence who you're going to partner up,

“hunting skills, kidnapping skills, all kinds of skills. You know what we're talking about?”

They're all kinds of ways to be in love, to be intimate, to get married, and to have a long term relationship. And I want to go back to figure out what's in common for all humans. That'll be super interesting, man. I feel like the smoke shower might make another chance of year. Do you want to come back? Yeah, come back for sure.

Man, thanks for coming. I've really, I'm so glad we finally got to do this.

I would ask where people can see this show and I know people are going to ask me, but I know it's also only in French. So I had to watch it with subtitles, which it's not publicly available. Basically, your wife made me that. Yes, package to watch. So where can people who speak French watch the show? I would say like, I think it's fun to watch even though you don't speak French. Forget about the language. Just feel the experience, feel the looks. Especially if someone

have listened to our interview to get the spirit of what we're going to look for. People will

“have fun. I think you don't need to understand all the language. So you just go on TV five. And it's”

all free. It's all online and there are eight episodes and all different climates hunting with eagles and minus 40 and all kinds of things. So TV five, it's called tribal. It's all free. So it's accessible. We'll link to that in the show notes. We may need your help finding that link because I don't think that Bob speaks French. But yeah, that'll be fun. Because people are going to go like, man, I got to see this. And I agree. I think you could totally watch it without

speaking French. Honestly, there were plenty of times where I had to go back and read the subtitles. But after this conversation, you have enough background. You could just play it and get it 90% of what's going on. Now that you know about the smoke shower, you won't be able to laugh. Yes, in the dark. Man, thank you very much. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's an honor. He's eating that boon hands in the wild. You're reading Uber Eats and still making bad decisions.

So what do we take away from all this? Well, aside from the fact that most of us wouldn't last six hours out there without crying, bargaining, and trying to then most someone for help, there's something kind of wild about it. No pun intended. There are communities with no shared language, no shared culture, no technology, and yet somehow connections still happens. Trust gets built. Friendships form. People teach you how to survive. And in some cases, how to not

die immediately from doing something incredibly stupid. Meanwhile, back home, we can't even make eye contact with our neighbors. So maybe the lesson here isn't go wander into the wilderness with a chicken and a dream. Maybe it's be a little more curious. Be a little more humble. And maybe don't assume you understand how the world works just because you got Wi-Fi. Or, I don't know, stay home and listen to podcasts where other people almost die for your entertainment and education.

advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support this show all on the website as well at

Jordanharbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Don't forget about six minute networking as well over at six minute networking.com. I'm @jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

And this show is created in association with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger,

Jason Sanderson, Robert Fargety, Tautis of Lauscus, Ian Beard, and Gabriel Misrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. In fact, the greatest compliment you can give us, they just share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who's interested in and are wildlife, that geo stuff, uncontacted tribes, these aren't quite uncontacted, but you know what I mean.

Share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you will apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time.

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