680: Scott Galloway: Action Absorbs Anxiety, Handling the Haters, Becoming an Excellent Storyteller, Reverse Engineering Your Success, The Importance of Novelty, and Why Praise Is the Most Underrated Leadership Tool

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Thank you so much for being here. Go to learningleadard.com for show notes of this and all podcasts episodes go to learningleadard.com. Now on to the Knights Featured Leader, Scott Galaway is a professor of marketing at NYU Stern School of Business. He's a serial entrepreneur and bestselling author of many books.

He's built and sold multiple companies, advise on boards and become one of the most provocative voices in business and culture today. This is his fourth appearance on The Learning Leader Show.

His first time was more than seven years ago during our conversation, we discussed how

he's become more resilient to criticism and the specific mindset shift that made it possible. Then we talked about the role his mom played in building his confidence and how that shapes how he leads other people today. Then we talked about storytelling and why it's the most underrated skill in business. And finally, Scott shared what he wants his kids to say about him someday and whether

“his current life is actually building towards that we want all over the place, both personal”

and professional, my favorite kind of conversations, ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy. My conversation with Scott Galaway Scott. So this year, fourth time on The Learning Leader Show. First time is episode 272, seven years ago. I'm curious, I think you're a pretty self-aware guy.

What have you gotten better at, noticeably, over the past seven years? I think I'm less sensitive and more immune to criticism. Really? Yeah, he used to really upset me a couple times people would say something about me, you

know, critical of me online or what I felt was unfair and it would really upset me.

It still upset me a little bit less so. I mean, on a personal level, you have kids, right? So minor 15 and 18 and when they're little, it's hard to imagine they're ever going to leave and now my oldest just got admitted to college and some kind of following him around the house.

I think I've gotten a greater understanding of the finite nature of life. I think that happens as you get older, you know, for most of our species, existence on this planet we died at the age of 35 so we can't really imagine we're going to live that long. So time goes faster than you think.

So I think I have a better appreciation for time. I think I've gotten a little bit, at least recently, I'm a little bit more trying to rediscover my taste for public failure. I'm trying to do more actions off the keyboard instead of just barking into a mic. But yeah, you know, a little bit more at peace with myself, I think.

That's a tough question. I think I would need to ruminate on a longer. There's a couple quotes from an S.quire story I read about you recently and this actually makes me think of one of them so I want to bring it up and hear you riff on a little bit more.

“If you want your life to last longer, if you want to be more informed about what you find”

interesting, what you find moving, what you find funny, what things really give you joy.

Otherwise, you're not sleepwalking through life, you're sleep sprinting.

“This is a deliberate attempt to turn my 80 or 90 years on this planet into a hundred”

and 50. Can you say more about that? Yeah, well, there's research that if you want life to go fast, just spend it alone and

have a routine and never bust out of that routine because what makes life interesting

is diversity and people, because people are complicated in relationships are complicated. So I have no desire to go to India. It's never been something I mentioned in, but I'm going to India because I want to slow my life down. I don't want to market.

I want to see the Taj Mahal or the Bengal tiger with my kids. I'm an introvert, I'm very, it's very easy for me to stay home. I'd like to stay home tonight and take an edible and watch Netflix instead. I'm a friend's out who are in town and, you know, it'll mark the time. So doing things that are unusual, that take you out of your routine, travel, relationships,

they're just kind of slow time down. And then the other thing is, I try to laugh out loud, I try to absorb when I'm upset and lean into my emotions, good and bad because it sort of marks the day and slows things down. Otherwise, if you get up every morning, do the same thing, eat the same thing, have the same

relationship that week's just going to go really fast. And so I try to be disruptive around my time and do a lot of different things and push myself. But really, if I see something that moves me, I try and stop, think about it, ask myself, why it moves me and try and cement that moment in my brain and just slow time down because

it's just, I don't know, the term is asymptotic, it just starts falling off a cliff. You're going to see this, months or months when you're 30, then in the 40s they become weeks and then in your 50s they become days. And so I'm purposely trying to come up with a series of hacks around slowing time down. It seems that creating novel events.

Yes. It's like when you go on vacation, sometimes, even though they're great, I want to be engaged with friends recently last summer, one of my buddies, Darren Stokes, who was with me, goes, man, it feels like we've been here forever. And it was beautiful.

We're in the Bahamas. It was amazing.

But it's because we were doing things that we never do.

And I think creating novel moments, I sense that you are really optimizing for novel. Yeah, that's a thought for way of putting a routine in the road, speed up time. And I like we said the novel and artisan chip and emotion slow it down. Yeah. So I try to do that.

I love it. I mean, I listen to all your shows. I've told you this for years. And one of the things I know you get a lot of feedback on that I'll double down on is when you share your emotion.

And when you talk about your family and when you talk about your mom, you talk about your dad. One of the things you said about your mom, you said every time she'd revisit her will, she would put a little post it in it because she knew eventually I, meaning you, was going to read it.

“She would write notes saying quote, you're the best thing in my life.”

And then she would write one, two months later that say, still are. I mean, that really moved me, man, and my parents are still my heroes to this day. And so it's cool to read that how did having someone like your mom impact you as a man, as a leader, as somebody who is going to make a difference in the world as someone that had so much belief in you?

Yeah, another generous question. So I say, I'm a middle-aged man who hasn't gone over the death of his mother. And I used to think that maybe I have a problem and I didn't grief counseling, but I kind of hope my kids feel the same way about me. Yes.

I need to talk about my mom without getting emotional, and it's because, you know, my mom raised me on the salary of a secretary, living in diet, a single government mother. But as you get older, you know, the good news is you get more thoughtful, the bad news you get more thoughtful, and I think it's a good exercise to reverse engineer all of your success to the things that aren't your fault.

“What are the things that played a role in your success that you had no control over?”

You know, you're lock, you're good fortune. In the very first thing for me, and it's a lot of things for me, it's a big government. I had assisted launch, Pelaghan, Sunrise, California, a technology, finance by middle-class

taxpayers, DARPA, the internet, an incredible capital, deep pulse of capital, so I could

raise money in an appreciation or an acceptance of failure. Most of the shit I've done is I've failed that, and America loves to, you know, forgive, I guess. But going to the very core, my mom, every day, implicitly, and explicitly told me and communicated to me that I had value, and I think that that built sort of a base of confidence in that

confidence manifests in different ways, whether it's the confidence to fail or approach strangers or believe you're worthy of love or that you'll add value to a company or that you can ask for tens of millions of dollars from someone because why not?

like I remember we used to go to, we used to get Delhi every night of this place called Junior's on Westwood Boulevard every Sunday night, and I was, I remember this, I was in high school about six foot, 130 pounds, terrible acne, you know, not Brad Pitt, let's just put it that way. And my mom would stop in the middle, it didn't look at me and hold my hand and go, you

are so handsome, do you know how handsome you are? And it was like, I knew I wasn't, but just this person telling me that, you know, or she would celebrate Sony, my victories, and there's still something very strange that it's

“mostly gone away, but are your parents still alive?”

Do you call them when something good happens to you? Yeah, absolutely. So anytime anything good happened to me, I used to call my mom, whether it was getting a bonus at Morgan Stanley or striking up a conversation with a woman at Starbucks and getting her number, I used to call my mom and say, oh, you know, this happened to me in my mom.

You know, it is you can brag your parents are boast and it's okay, you know, they like asking your victory. And after my mom passed for a good decade, when something good happened to me, it says if it didn't happen, it's the, the effect it is is I travel a lot for business and I stay at really nice hotels because someone else is paying.

And inevitably, just always, I get upgraded to the panhouse of the George sank in Paris whenever

I'm alone. And you're in some amazing hotel room overlooking the scene or a view of a hotel, but if there's no one there with you, it's like it didn't happen. If there's no one to share with it, it doesn't happen. And for a good decade, when anything good happened to me, it was like it didn't happen

because my first instinct was to call my mom and then her celebrating it, cemented it. It actually happened. It was just very strange to have this reflex, when anything good happened to me, it felt like it didn't because my mom used to cement it. You know, it's kind of everything and you got to get good at it.

You got to call your friends, celebrate their victories, celebrate your own, tell people how much they mean to you, but something I've taken from my mom is it's very straightforward. You know, she was a good friend, she was a kind person. The absolute thing I do every day, no matter how much my kids piss me off or whatever, at some point I find a way to say I'm proud of you and I love you immensely.

You know that, right?

“And they roll their eyes and I'm like, well, you know that, right?”

And I think that when they're older, I hope that they have that same kind of base or pillar of confidence that I've had my whole life. So, you know, just having someone in your life in every day telling them they mean a lot to you, they can't help but not believe you after a while. So I got that from my mom, I think that without that, I probably would have had and I still

have it a little bit, a sense of masculinity that was being the strong silent type. But yeah, every day I tell my kids that I just think they're wonderful and they have value.

I think that's an amazing form of leadership.

I'll share a little bit more why. When I think about the leaders, coaches, my backgrounds and sports that have impacted me the most, they're the ones that made me believe I was better than I was. The other ones that pushed me and raised my level of performance higher than I even thought I was capable of, your a leader within your company and companies you have been your entire

career, your leader as a family man, taking what you learn from your mom and her instilling that belief in you. And I, I, I sent she truly believed it when she said that I get that sense. I'm sure you do too, right? She's not just saying it to make you feel what you believe it.

“How do you take that that sense of belief in somebody and lifting them up as you lead people?”

Let's talk business first.

Like you just talked about your boys. So you do that every day with them. How about enough from a business perspective and instilling belief in others because you believe in them and you tell them that? Yeah, I've gotten better at it, but I'm still not good at it.

But I was bad at it when I was here. H and that is I thought being a leader was being the smartest person in the room. And I had trouble, especially I think with other men, I had this weird dynamic and I think it affects a lot of us men that if we say to a dude, wow, you look like you're in great shape or you're ripped, you've been working out or dude, you're, God, you're handsome

or you know, you just handled that situation so well, it's somehow it takes away from your accomplishment or masculinity, that somehow it's a zero-sum game. And with that, unfortunately, permeated in my professional life, as you don't realize, there's so much currency you have. If you're in a management role or a leadership role, much less a founder, you have so

much currency to pull someone into a conference room and go, you were outstanding in

Or I just read this and I love this paragraph, God, where did you come up with this idea? Like you word it, it's so well here. You literally see these people just light up. If you're the founder of a company and they went to work for you, it means that they

think you're impressive, whether you're impressive or not, you think you're impressive. And so what I've tried to be much better at is just a quick email saying, you handled yourself really well there, or this is great work. And I even do it, it's funny, I've gotten to know some, mostly to the podcast, some celebrities.

And occasionally, I always use to thought if you're a CR or whatever, you get so many compliments

they don't mean anything to you. Typically, I mean, we're just just like fragile and narcissistic as anyone else. So I have a friend of mine who was in the biggest movie of last summer, and I wrote to them I'm like, dude, you just stole the show, oh, you're so outstanding.

“And he just wrote back and he's like, why, why did you think that?”

And thanks so much. And I would think this guy would be like, fielding millions of fans. And what you realize is that no matter how famous someone is, they love affirmation as much as anybody else and the greatest wasted resource in history is good intentions that don't get articulated or good thoughts that don't get articulated.

And then if you really want to have a big impact, especially among young people in your company, when they do something well, just calling them out, especially publicly, if you can do it, this is so good, right, especially with young people, they need watering. It's like having a ton of capital and not spending it.

And so the way I would say, I've always run my own companies, and I've made the mistake

of being a millionaire from a currency standpoint and not spending it. Because for some reason, I had some fucked up sense of insecurity or masculinity that I thought it was a zero-sum game that if I acknowledge someone else was doing a good job, it was impressive, somehow that made me less impressive. And that's a mistake I made.

“And I think I started to figure that out in course correct around 35 or 40, but what you”

want in a company, just to shareholder protective, is the team of the best players wins. And half the battle is attracting the best players, but the other 50%, maybe even 51% is retaining them because it's so expensive to find new good people. And loyalty is a function of compensation. It just is.

If you appreciate people, they become loyalty, and especially if you're good at what you do. And compensation breaks down into several things. There's obviously economic compensation, there's experience and upscaling, but also just making them feel really good and like they're appreciated.

When I work to Morgan Stanley, I remember going into my year-end reviews, I had no idea. I'm not joking. I thought okay, I could either be fired or get a 200% bonus, and I wouldn't be totally surprised here. I just have no fucking idea how I'm doing.

I think I'm good at this.

But you never got feedback, you know, this was 90s investment banking culture where occasionally

someone threw a chair at you or made fun of you, you know, it just wasn't, you got no real feedback. Unless I was a junior level analyst, you were sort of invisible and too fucked up. You got a lot of feedback when you fucked up. But as I've got an older, I realize it's a manager.

If you aren't salting and watering young people with praise when they deserve it and also constructive feedback when they fuck up. But feedback, positive and negative, it's incredible compensation. So whenever someone does something good, I try to memo to selfie an email and then when I do their review at the end of the year, it's like, wow, this dude is paying attention.

And that is a form of compensation. Young people, if you give them a really thoughtful review and say, you know what, you've in our treasure, if you ever want to be a CFO and you want to make more money, you're a single mother. I imagine you want to make more money. You understand them. You know them. You're working. I know you need flexibility. I know your single mom. I imagine you want to make

“more money. You need to take more courses. Here are three courses. And then why you're”

stirring this is what they cost. I'm going to pay for it. But I need you to develop skills around balance sheet accounting. I mean, that person's just going to be loyal to you. That person's going to go, okay, this person is taking an interest in me and understands me. And is willing to try and guide me a little bit. My reviews used to be one thing a check. I took the Morgan Stanley approach. I'm like, people want money. They're good.

You get them 60% bonus. They're not good. And you get them 30%. Or you get Missouri bonus, which is basically like firing them. Now I realize is much feedback is possible in a thoughtful way. That is, I think, incredible compensation. And also, just especially the young people praise. It's incredible currency, ways to currency if you don't leverage it. I think it also shows a very healthy culture. And then when it's a true telling environment,

and again, friends of mine, it helped me with this. But the instant you're thinking something positively about somebody just tell them, text them, call them. See, understand. If you're thinking

like you said, this famous movie star, who you would assume all, here she's good to go. They're fine. No big deal. And yet, they still feel it just like the rest of us. How good it feels when someone says, that was awesome. I loved how you performed in that thing. I mean, to me, it's just like,

oh, I'm thinking it, say it, just say it. And then you get, like it creates this amazing dialogue

“and deepening of a relationship with another person. And ultimately, that's what, as you said,”

greatness is an agency of others. That's what life is really all about. Yeah, I'm trying to be better at it because I've been inspired. One of my closest friends, Lee Lotus, he called me. I was on, like out of the blue, he called me and said, I was with my uncle, my aunt, and we were watching an old episode of Bill Mar, and he's like, I just can't tell you how proud of you I am. Dude, don't speak to each other that way.

He used to come over to my fraternity, and we bombed it to Will Rogers Beach in his 1984 Honda Civic, and we get ridiculously fucking high and just sit on the beach and look at the sunset.

And he's like, do you ever think you were going to be doing this? He's like, it's just so incredible.

And I can't tell you how meaningful that is. It just stops you in your tracks, right? And so I've tried to take a note from his playbook and reach out to people. Even when you don't know them as well as you think you might need to, you know, and just say, wow, you're such an impressive person. You're so good at what you do. And I'm trying to get much better at that. And you know, when you realize as you, there's this sort of this cartoon of grandparents who are like, oh,

you're so good at this. And oh, you're such an impressive young woman. What you realize is they get it, right? They figured it out. That that's all there is. We're a species that cooperates and relationships, your happiness, the function of relationships. And so to not express affection and admiration is just like, you know, it's just this unbelievable, a wasted resource. So, yeah, I'm glad you brought this up, but it's something it's a reminder. I still sometimes think

we have a tendency to think other people are telepathic. And then, okay, I love this person. And I think they're wonderful. They must sense it. Well, no, they don't sense it. I mean, yeah, articulate it. I can guarantee that when you're on your death bed, you're not going to think, oh, shit, I gave too much praise of work. And I told too many people how much they meant to me. That's just not going to happen.

Yeah, speaking of Bill Mar, Scott, I always kind of feel bad for the person that's sitting next to you.

When you're on that show, and sometimes even Bill, because well, no, so there's some of them where you get a full on applause after every single response or answer to a question. And the other

“person sitting there like, they have that, we are looking at the face like, who is this guy? How is he?”

Like, it's funny, it's like, you have this probably conversations with the people who edit your podcast, where you're talking about clips, right? Because clips are such a big deal. And there are certain guests that they're just clip machines. So, this is like inside baseball, lingo, I have with my team of people who are on my clip machines. Scott Galway is like the number one clip machine in the world. James Clear, Morgan Housel, Cat Cole, Scott Galway. I would say those are the

people in my mind that are clip machines, which leads me to a question Scott, and that is around becoming an effective communicator. Because leaders, this is mandatory now. I don't think this is optional to become a great storyteller, to be able to communicate ideas, to be able to inspire and move people. You are as good at this as anybody I've talked to. Some of it's probably your born with it. I know you've talked about your dad was really good at this, but how can someone who

isn't maybe born with as much talent or skills you get better at becoming an effective communicator where they become clip machines essentially? Again, you're being generous, but two things more, and then being a good storyteller. So, I have a huge ego. The bill more format, I do a lot of media. I get really nervous before bill more. I thought I was going to throw up the first time. I thought I was going to throw up on that. It doesn't look like it. God, I'm so nervous in the show. My dad only

“watched two things on TV, Maple Leafs hockey, and Bill Morris. Every time I'm on, I think my dad's”

watching, and I get very nervous. The format is pretty intense. You come out on that. They roll up the desk, and Bill's not afraid to get in your face, and you can say something in our ticket to bad. It's a very intense environment. But it's a format that's kind of well suited for my sort of tert comments. And I'm an ego maniac. I go on after, and I see all these nice comments, and it makes me feel really good. And then one time I went on with Jessica Tarlov, and immediately

after the show, I immediately go to the YouTube to get the comments. And I hear all I see is, "Just as a superstar, Jess is amazing." And I'm like, fuck, I just got so upset. Oh, I have a podcast with her now. That's in that side, I did. I called her, and I said, "I'm just so bummed out that

gets rise to the raging moderate podcast. If I could get my kid one thing, keep my 10 years ago. We were trying to get all of kids to take computer science and Mandarin. That has not worked out. But the one enduring skill, I think, is storytelling. Your ability to find a mate, attract friends, attract cheap capital, get people to come to work for you. Invest in you is around your ability to look at data and develop a narrative arc, and then express it in a compelling

way. And I don't know if it's 49 or 51% nature versus nurture or genetics versus practice. But I have an unfair advantage because for 22 years, I've stood in front of 160 fairly discriminating people were paying a lot of money. And I have to tell them the story for 80 minutes not stop,

and it has to be worth, but it's 160 kids. They're basically playing like $130,000 in tuition

“just for that one night. So you can't just show up until war stories. So you have to be an effective”

communicator. I got a lot of practice. I've taught 4,500 students over 22 years. I get a ton of practice telling stories and obviously podcasting. If you want to be an effective storyteller, I would say the one basic, the STEM of storytelling is the ability to write well. I think it forces you to manage your thoughts, think things through. So I think it's difficult to be a great storyteller. If you can't write it a comp in a level. Now, in terms of developing those skills, what I would

suggest is look at every medium, whether it's texting, LinkedIn, short-form video, TikTok, long-form writing, magazine article like writing, writing books, speaking, small groups, go through every medium and rank yourself and listen yourself and decide what is my specialty,

and then go very deep around one and say, I am really good. I always have, I'm good speaking

in front of groups. I'm not great one-on-one. I come across as a loof and insecure at the same time when I meet with people one-on-one. I'm just not, I'm not that effective. Are you sure? That's true. I'm not strong. I'm much better. In front of a group of 1,000 people, I'm charming and likable. And I don't think I'm either of those things one-on-one. I think people are generally disappointed at the downside when they meet me in small groups. I think I'm going to be much more

interesting than I am. And then I'm not good on the phone. I've listened to myself on the phone. I'm not, I'm not very good on the phone. Figure out your medium. There are so many different mediums. Figure out what you're great at. It might be podcasting. Some people give, you know, I say they give great text. Whatever it is, are you visual storyteller and commit to being in the top 1%. So in my class, I say pick a social media platform on a kip. It's linked in

“or TikTok. Find out what you need to be in the top 1%. And I say by the end of the semester,”

you need to be in the top 1%. And a lot of people pick linked in and say, I need to come up with a very niche content, business strategy for producing content, and we track it. So it's developing a platform. In this resistant unsubscribe, I did the analysis to, I'm getting about 6,200,000

unique today to do that from a standing start. I would have to invest $48 million in keywords.

So the ability to build your platforms by understanding storytelling and more specifically, what type of storytelling resonates by the medium is an unbelievable asset. I think if you're a young person, you want to be influential or economic secure. Social media may make you want to shower after you use it. It has been bad for my mental health. But in terms of economic power and influence, it's frightening how powerful social is right now. So rank every different medium you participate in,

where you have skills and then identify and challenge yourself to be in the top 10% within a year in the top 1% within 3 years. Here in the top 1% of podcasts are 1.6 million podcasts, 600,000 put out content every week. If you're in the top 6,000, you're in the top 1%, you're probably in the top 1%, so it makes sense for you to go very deep around podcasting to invest in audio quality producers and say, okay, if I can be in the top 1% of storytelling in this medium,

podcasting, I can make a good living and have a lot of influence. And then also around storytelling reality is your efforts are going to be inversely correlated to the size of the screen. And that is, if you're a great storyteller and you think I want to tell, I want to make documentary films, you don't need to be in the 0.1% you need to be in the 0.01% the big screen is returning terrible or terribly, I should say. TV still a huge business, but it's kind of flat,

but if you can produce content that is mostly digested off of the phone whether it's a podcast or a short-form video, that champagne and cocaine. So that's the overlay, but if I could get my kids

“any one skill that I think it's going to be enduring, it would be storytelling. And that's what I do.”

My my core confidence is storytelling, my superpowers are attracting retaining people that help leverage my skills, but yeah, it's kind of everything. You mentioned resist and don't subscribe. I think a lot of people when we initially heard this thought like, really, like, Scott, this seems

cynics out there and you've stayed strong. It seems like it's making a big impact, but can you

describe what is it, what it is, why you want to do, because you could focus on anything and you're focusing a lot on this. Yeah, I would just love to hear what brought you to this point, how it's going and what you, how you wanted to go on beyond February. I've typically been able to disassociate from politics, and when I saw Secretary Nome describe Alex Prady and I see a nurse taking care of veterans as a domestic terrorist and say it was managing a weapon with a tentative massacre federal

agents, it really rattled me. And Dan Harris from 10% happier has this great saying that action absorbs an anxiety and I thought, okay, I'm sick of being so virtuous and action, you know, in

“courageous on a keyboard or a mic, I need to do something. And I think I understand the markets and”

economics and I thought what people don't realize is they have this weapon hiding and playing

side and that is their spend or lack thereof. And that is the most radical act in a capitalist society is not participation. And that is if you look back to when the government most quickly responded and the scale of its response, it was six years ago when it flushed trillions of dollars in the economy and changed laws, not because 10 of thousands of people were dying from COVID, but because a GDP crashed 31%. And if you look at when the president backs away from plants and ex-Greenland

or what feel like a rational tariffs, it's when either the bond market or the stock market goes down so I thought, okay, how do you send a signal be it to be the market? 40% of the S&P is now determined by just 10 companies and those 10 companies, this often issue there, is there especially sensitive subscription growth or lack thereof? So I said, all right, we have a weapon hiding and playing side and that as you can get maximum leverage or impact with a minimal amount of consumer

disruption by unsubscribing. So for example, if you unsubscribed in the pay version of chat GPT, which is $240 the raising money at 40 times revenue, that's a $10,000 hit to their market cap. So what I'm trying to do is send a signal to Americans that maybe you don't need three streaming media music companies. If you like me, you go on to AT&T's site, you might find that you have four AT&T contracts, three of which are for blackberries and iPads that have been

in landfills for eight years. And that if enough people send a signal, even if it has a minimal minimal impact on the subscription growth that these companies are against some attention from media platforms such as this one, I want to create an incentive structure that's

“more balanced. I think these companies have figured or determined that the incentive structure”

is to enable the president, keep quiet, and he will give you passes from tariffs, enable you, maybe even provide deafening for your data centers, whatever it might be. But I think at a minimum moment I create an incentive structure that says there is a downside to enabling the president when you yourself are texting people like me saying you hate yourself. So well that's not doing that's a lot of good. So the idea is how do you have maximum impact with a minimal amount of

consumer disruption? It is, I want to be clear, it's kind of one bite at a time. I don't think I have changed the behavior of any of these companies, but I've heard from probably 20% of the CEOs. And just as an analogy, the most famous economic strike, I believe in the U.S. with the Montgomery bus strike. And there was a cinematic moment that people remember where a brave young woman refused to give up her seed. But actually what FOMEN had changed was an 11-month carpooling effort

organized by Dr. King where thousands of carpools shuddled people to work. And the municipal

bus system was losing a quarter of a million dollars a month and after 11 months they decided to change

or desegregate their bus system. So I wanted to do something. I wanted to send a signal.

“I wanted to try and change incentive structure. I think we've accomplished the first.”

I don't think we've accomplished the second. But at a minimum it feels really good to be doing something with other people. We'll end up with probably 2 million unique visitors to the site. As you probably know, I've been just a total media whore, we've been everywhere. And I like to think we're having an impact. And even if it's just a nat on an elephant, enough nats will take down an elephant. What's the look like moving forward?

Yeah, that's a really good question right. And I'm very open to ideas. It's taking a lot of my time. And I thought, okay, it was meant to be just for February. But it feels like it's building momentum. And so I don't know if I evolve it. Like, you know, make it like met a march or, you know, focus on a smaller group of companies from our tribe just keep it going. Or I say, I'm going to leave the side up. Here's links to make it easy to unsubscribe. And I pull back from it.

And maybe empower some other people or some other resistant sites. There's a bunch of them out there. So I'm trying to work through that. But I just agreed to do an event in Minneapolis. Called the resistant unsubscribe event where we'll sell out the pentages theater there. I'm probably

established a lot of momentum. I'm curious how it affects you, actually, because you've openly stated how it's created. I think a lot of people online to say bad things about you. And maybe you've

“done a good job of not looking at those things. I know that's hard to do. That's what I was curious”

about is, would you have to hand something like this off, even though you're the reason that

it's gained momentum, because of whether it's the CEOs of these powerful people, these billionaires,

or whoever. Now you get invited to those events. I know you've gone to some of them. I think you call them the masters of the universe events. I wondered how it's affecting you in those rooms with some of those people who are like, Scott, you're one of us. Like, what are you doing, dude? Let's somebody else do that. How has that been for you? Yeah, well, so first off, there is no battle without casualties. And on the whole, it's been, I think, positive for me.

emotionally, it feels good to do something. I was in Switzerland last week and I had on average two or three people a day, come up to me and fist bump me or high five me and say, resist an unsubscribe. Wow, I've gotten a lot of positive feedback from people. I've had two speaking gigs canceled and they said it's not because we don't agree. It's just you're sort of politically hot. I had the largest software company in the firm had quartered in Seattle, which will

go nameless call me this morning and say, they spent about three quarters of a million dollars

either each quarter or each six months on my podcast, say, we're going to wait and see we're going to pause the campaign and see what you're doing in March, which to me is basically saying, look, boss, I get it. That's the right day get to advertise or not advertise. But I just saw that blatantly as I'm saying, look, we're not going to advertise if you continue to try and encourage people to unsubscribe. So look, nothing's for free, but one of my role models is Sam Harris.

And he has this great saying that comforts me and that is if you have economic security and people who love you unconditionally and I have both those things, then you have an obligation to speak

“out and speak your mind because most people don't have that luxury. I believe what's going on”

here in our government is wrong. I want to do something more than just vote or even go to a protest. I feel like I'm in a position when my platform to make a difference. And if I lose some speaking gigs or some of the people who I hang out with, I don't get invited to their dinner parties or they call me and kind of read me the right act. Although most call me and say, I've heard from about 20% of the CEOs, they'll call and say the following, we get what you're doing. You got to understand

it's difficult for us to go first. We have an obligation to shareholder value. I mean, they're very

smooth. They're not threatening. We're drawing advertising a sort of a call at a passive aggressive that I understand though that they're like, why are we financing this effort? But I would say on the whole, it feels really good to be doing something Ryan. I mean, and the downside, you know, I went on Pierce Morgan the other night and they had a magic eye for get his name saying, you're being on patriotic and desperate. Like it's pathetic what you're doing. And you run the risk of public failure

and embarrassment if you throw a party and a one shows up or you lose all your advertisers and that would be bad. But you know, my attitude now and it goes back to time is I'm going to be dead soon. This is all going really fast. Am I going to look back and think, oh, fuck, I lost Microsoft as a sponsor or some people on the right thought this was stupid and unpatriotic and other people thought it was kind of like roller eyes or that it was, you know, kind of a waste or am I going

“to think, you know, right on, I tried to do something. I think it's going to be the latter. I want”

to I want to show up with a carpool and try and make a difference and whether it's I'm going to show up on a mobile pet or I'm showing up with a tractor trailer depending on the success of this movement. I want to be that guy. I want to be someone who was on a freight, you know, some of my heroes, whether it's Hillary Clinton or Muhammad Ali, or the people I admire, I was just at a, this can sound douchey. I was at a restaurant, an opera ski and, you know, life of privilege.

This couple, they offered, they obviously fucked up. They got up and they started dand, they're going to replace, they're just how do I call them people start dancing on tables and they dance as if no one is watching. Tell me what I want to live my life. I want to be a little fucked up and I want to dance like no one is watching. Okay, if you're sober, you're like, oh, those people look ridiculous, be dancing. I'm telling you, you know, you're just like really enjoying

life and doing what they want to do. I want to live life that way. I want to, if I make some mistakes, I lose some money, so be it. I want to be that guy that was like, yeah, I was like ready fire,

One of them that I've heard you talk about recently, it's a really cool to see what's going on with prophecy markets and how it's gone from nothing to now. It feels like a really big time thing. You and Ed talked about that you were going to like try to get property, the media company, built up so you could sell it for potentially hundreds of millions of dollars. And I thought, that's kind of weird because prophecy is you. Why would you want to do that? Why wouldn't you want to

keep it as your kind of megaphone? Your, you built this amazing platform. Why would you want to sell

something like that? I want to my capitalists. I'm insecure about money and I'm most looking for another exit. I try to be very transparent about my ambitions. I know I've heard you say that before, but that still surprises me because then what? You've built this thing that's your microphone from nothing. You know, the first time we recorded you had not had that yet. And now you have something that's potentially worth hundreds of millions of dollars just basically from you talking

into a microphone and on stages and writing books and all that other stuff. YouTube videos, whatever, you've won. You've kind of won. Why the need for another cash out when you've already cashed out tons? Yeah. So it's a couple things. One, I'm just worried that way where I want to have enterprise value and build value. And even if I end up, I'm at a point now. I think we've talked about. I hit my number seven ten years ago now and I every year I look at how much money I have above that night,

they're spend it or I give it away. So the money isn't profound for me. It's still meaningful because I still have economic security even though unless I really fuck up, I'll be fine. But in order to scale, I think businesses are like sharks. If they're not moving forward and growing,

“they're dying. And also, the key to building a big business, the team of the best players”

wins the only way, at least for me, I've been able to find really talented people and get them

to act like owners is to make them owners. So I give equity away. I've never sold a company

owning more than, you know, I usually give away between 30 or 40 and 70% of the company. And what I do is I sit down the people, especially the really talents and ones, and you spot them. I'm, this is politically incorrect, but I think 10% of your employees at 120% of the value and the other 90% are negative 20. That's not to say you don't need them, but in every organization, there are just some people who are driving just so much value. And what I do is I sit them down

and I say, okay, this is the company. This is how we're going to build it together. And I'm going to give you 3% of the company or 5% of the company. I'm going to sell it for 3 to 6 times revenues, which means you're going to get this much money. And I have a history of

“getting these things to access. I find that as the only way to really hold on to outstanding people.”

And I think one of the mistakes that founders make is like, I'm making a shit ton of money, have a nice life, and this is fun for you, so you're going to be fine. No, young people, especially the young people, I try to attract. They have the same ambitious goals around economic security that you have. It's like, well, Scott, you're not the only person that wants to fly private someday. You're not the only person that wants to give away a bunch of money to philanthropy. You know, I do too.

And so what I do is I say, okay, and by the way, what you described was the first 3 or 4 years

of business. I thought I was done a fun thing, maybe a little bit influence, maybe a nice living, run my life still through the expense. It's just sort of a nice little business. And then it started scaling more right place right time than anything because podcasting has taken off. So to create enterprise value, I have to create voices other than mine. So China decode, I'm not on a property market. I'm on one day a week. I mean, though, it's five days a week. Raging moderates is going

to five days a week. I'll be on two of the five. So I'm trying to diversify a little bit away from Scott where like, I'll be able to point to six or 70% of the revenue. I will not touch. And then

“we'll probably launch another one or two podcasts in the next 12 months. But I think it is very”

difficult to retain really talented young people without the prospect of an exit that will build real economic value for them. Also, I just enjoy it. I think I'm good at it. I've had two exits. I find it fascinating. I want to go after CNBC. I think we're going to be 80% of NBC with 10% of the means of production costs. We now have bigger audiences than them in the core demographic because it's basically their average viewership. I think it's 67. Our average viewership is page 34.

And that's whoever tires want to reach. So I'm very focused on how to create enterprise value and create something that's saleable. Now, if I sell it, let's be honest. That doesn't mean anyone's going anywhere. No one's going to buy us and give us a bunch of money just for a bunch of mics and production equipment. We're all going to have to sign four or five year agreements. And that's been the way I almost every firm I've sold. But I'm very focused on enterprise value. I want

I want to enjoy myself. And I want to create economic security for other people at this point. So

we're for two years and they go somewhere else. I want to have a place where I can find super

talented people and say to them, okay, this is how I'm going to make you a millionaire in the next four years. It makes a lot of sense, especially around attracting people that are very talented. The young ones who you want to have like, oh, they have big upside. They have lottery tickets that they're investing in. One of the other things that came up recently is I thought of this

“Dion Sanders quote and I think it applies. But he said, it's good, feel good, feel good, play good,”

play good, pay good. You've been open about getting cosmetic surgery recently. And I don't know any guys who are open about that. Literally, I don't know any. You're the first one. And you're on camera all the time. One, what made you want to do that? And why be so open about it? I regret being open about it because it's become a meme online and it's a bit embarrassing. How's it? Well, I mean, people in my comments, I don't know. I tried to live my life transparency. That was probably

too much information. But basically, I have pretty serious dark circles around my eyes and as someone

who's always had a little bit of body dysmorphia, it became something I could feel here. I could

see when I was on TV. Yep, decided to get it fixed. But yeah, and I talked very openly about it. I would bet within 10 years, 50% of men over the age of 50 have money. We're going to have shit done.

“Absolutely. I don't blame anybody. Guy, girl, you have to look at that person every single day,”

multiple times. If you don't feel good about it, or there's something maybe a small thing that you don't feel good about, why not? Like, why not? I don't regret it. I'm not sure I should have been as open about it. But yeah, I did it. It was pretty easy. And I would say to anybody, yeah, and do it makes you feel good about yourself. And also, it's not, it's not easy being mediocre looking at textual efforts. Yeah, I also think I'd probably suffer a little bit from

I grew up very, very skinny with bad acne. I think maybe I'm a little too focused or a little too

self-conscious about my looks. And I really feel for young women in the age of Instagram. I just can't imagine how they're not obsessed with their looks. Because the benchmark just keeps getting higher and higher and more unreasonable, I do think, though, you've said this, but America, and maybe the world is ages and looksist. You can act like that's bad to say, and it's not correct, but it's true. It just is, especially if you're going to be on stages and on TV and on video all the time,

if you look old or out of shape, again, this sounds terrible. But I, I think people will start higher and other people, unless you're just remarkably remarkably talented as a storyteller, so you'd still probably have a shot. But I just think that's the reality of the world we live in. We don't want to talk about it. New York is the ultimate tip of the spear for a capitalist society. It's optimized for two people, hot women and rich guys. So everyone else is to soul crushing

experience. And we can talk about the way the world should be in the way the world is. That's the way the world is. And it's a little less awful in the corporate world than in other parts of the world, 'cause they're not as looksist or as ages. But, you know, I coach a lot of young men. I'm like, start working out. Hey, it's just good for your head. Women and employers are attracted to big muscles or guys in shape or someone who's in shape, not because it looks good, which it does. But because

it reflects that you show up, do you have a supplant that you can commit to something? And we live in an age now where there's so much emphasis in so many unreasonable expectations. And we're really ageist. My last company was an analytics company and I hired a developer who was maybe 47, 48, most of my developers when they're 20s. There was such a weird vibe. He'd be in a meeting and it was this, I sensed like all the other young people were like, dude, what happened? What you're not

running a tech company by like, what happened? Like, oh, you know, to be that age and not be in charge of everything was, you know, you had fucked up, if you will. Look, there's a way the world should be,

“there's a way the world is. And I think you do the best with what you have. I think it's super important.”

I coach a lot of young men and I have something called the rule of threes. I hate and I'm venturing into other air waters here. I hate the insel movement because if you look throughout history from 99% and men through 99% of history have been in voluntarily solid, but there's very few things any man in the world right now would rather be doing than having sex. And women have a much finer filter for mates than men. So throughout history, only 40% of men have reproduced 80% of women.

So it's like, okay, welcome to the human species where the majority of us are involuntarily celibate. It's better in the America and Western Europe in America, 75% of men get an opportunity to reproduce. But I hate this movement where you just sort of resign yourself to, well, it's women's

Oh fuck that, you're a v-cell, you're voluntarily celibate. And when I say as the rule of threes,

“if you work out three times a week or more, if you spend at least 30 hours a week working”

outside of the house. And you put yourself in the company of strangers working on the agency of something bigger than yourself, church group, nonprofit, sports league, whatever it might be, just by doing those three things, you put yourself in the top 5% of attractiveness of young males. And if you're in the top 5% for long enough and you develop the skills to approach people and express friendship and romantic interests while making them feel safe and most importantly,

you get used to know. Anyone who's at gray yessis is at a shit ton of nose. There were hundreds of nose for you to get to a top podcast, right? My guess is you probably have a great partner. That involved a lot of nose along the way. You get used to know. If you can be in the top 5% and learn how to mourn and move on from rejection. At some point, I tell this to the young man I mentor. You will be voluntarily in celibate, which is fucking awesome. So all these men

claiming to be in cells know you have given up your lazier full of shit. Your voluntarily celibate. And welcome to the fucking work week boss. We all had to work hard to find good jobs.

“No one has the right to a living. No one has the right to reproduce. If you want to score above”

your class economically or romantically, we'll then get out of big spoon to get ready to eat shit. It's what every one of us has done. And for some reason, you've decided to like blame the world or immigrants or women for your economic or romantic problems. Fuck that. Level up. What more question? Love it. This is the champagne question for my friend Jason Gaynor. Scott, we're meeting a year from right now one year. You're with let's say you're with your boys

in your wife and you're celebrating your pop and bottles. You've got champagne everywhere. It's going crazy. What are you celebrating? That's funny. Two things immediately popped in my mind. My son just got into college and I'm just constantly worried about my boys crying. I didn't worry about him and they were little unless they were sick. They were just safe and they were home and now I'm just worried about them all the time. I'm just,

are they doing okay at school? One's quiet. Is he okay? I don't know if it's them or I'm just getting more anxious as I get older. But my kid just got into a fantastic university. We're so proud of him. I'd be celebrating his first year having fun, good friend group, couple dates. Scott is heartbroken. Maybe broke someone's heart went to a bunch of football games

and was gearing up for a sophomore year. That to me would just be an incredible victory. And then

two to be blunt. I'm very focused on Democrats taking back control of Congress. I'm going to spend a lot of my time treasury and talent. I'm moving back to the US because I want to be quote unquote part of the resistance. I'm very upset about the state of America right now and I would imagine a lot of your listeners don't agree with me. But I feel as if everything that got me or almost everything that got you know it's easy to credit your grit and your character for

your success. But as you get older you get more thoughtful and as we've referenced during the show. I reverse engineer to government programs, a respect for immigrants, immigrants built my companies, massive investment in technologies, competitive markets where the government didn't weigh in and pick winners and losers assisted lunch. My mom, I speak openly about this when I was 17 and I got into UCLA, which is me and my mom, my mom terminated a pregnancy and if we live

somewhere in the south and she'd been forced to carry a baby to term, I wouldn't have been able to go to college. I would have had to support my mom in a newborn. So all of these things that put me in this seat with you here now, I feel like a lot of them are under attack. And I find it very rattling. And I also think men my age, I'm older than you. But if you're a widehead of sexual male born in the 60s, you've had unfair prosperity. You've had unearned advantage. I've

had literally fucking hurricane winds in my sales. I got to go to UCLA when at a 74% admission straight. I got undergrad and grad. Seven years of college for $7,000 in tuition. I got into Berkeley graduate school with an undergraduate GPA of 2.27 GPA. You talk about a different time. I have raised hundreds of millions of dollars in capital because of these deep, deep capital pools because of rule of law and fair competition and not the government weighing

in and deciding who should get to acquire one of the brothers who didn't. As I said, immigrants built all my companies, you know, best people my companies from Canada, from Afghanistan, from Argentina. I feel like everything that got me here to this point today is under attack. And that I have,

“and I think if you're a man, my age who has had not been called the servant Vietnam,”

this is basically the story of my life as a relates to America. Unpresidented historic

prosperity with the lowest taxes in history. That describes my relationship with America.

values. It gave me so much prosperity to summarize. I want to make America America again.

And so for me, it would be celebrating my voice freshman year of college and the Democrats taking back control of Congress. I think the overwhelming number of people in America's got our independent, their raging moderates. Yeah. I really do show me a moderate public and I'll get money. Or yeah. I'd like the tallery goes of the world. I mean, I just think so many are in that boat and so they're kind of homeless. We're probably going to learn to the left

unfortunately for anyways. Yeah. But my point is just like, I think what do people want? I

“think that this won't reasonable people. 100%. That's what we want. Right? We want someone who's”

just reasonable. Yeah. I honestly don't care what letter is by somebody's name. I would just like someone to be... Don't mind Romney and George Bush seem really like... Well, right now. I mean, I'm a hardcore Democrat. And I look back and I'm like, yeah, I'd be five with Mitt Romney. I have no, yeah. You know, W. Like, probably the worst decision of the 21st century going to Iraq. But other than that, pretty good guy. Pretty reasonable. Yeah. And, you know, I'm almost as unpopular

on the far left as I am on the far right. The far right thinks I'm a libertar. The far left thinks I'm going to play. And here, in the last week, we have real structural reform around Jerry Mandarin or Citizens United. We're just going to end up with extremists on the left. I didn't tell you

all that that question was coming. But I love that your first thought, too, was about your family.

I think that's really cool. That makes me feel good. Scott, where would you send my viewers, listeners, learn more about you online? Well, crap, I'm everywhere. It's more where can we send them to avoid me? I'm like, yeah, well, in the 90s, you stick your hand in a cereal box. You're going to pull out an AOL disc. I'm everywhere, right? Prof Galloway, my newsletter, all my podcasts, to resist this feudal. I'm overexposed at this point. Well, thank you for

choosing to do this one again, fourth time. I want to keep doing a man because, like I said, jacket on number five, what happened? Yeah, whatever you want. We do in person. Where are you going to be? Are you going to be in Florida, New York, where are you going to be? Where are you? I'm going to hire you. Did I travel wherever though? I owe, we're in Ohio. Dayton, you lived in Columbus for a little bit, right? Yeah, we're thinking I caddy to where I think in Country Club. Yeah, I was just

there last night with my brother. It's where he lives. So I go there quite a bit. Yeah, I totally see you running for office in Ohio. No, no, no chess. Center right, Ryan, that's my sense of you. What do you say that? You just strike me as a reasonable guy. I'm moderate, but you pay sports. I don't am making a lot of stereotypes right now. I would think you're sort of, again, my guess would be your center right. I just think of Ohio, family guy, learning leader. I don't know. You tell me,

“where are you on the political spectrum? I don't even know. That's why I said pretty homeless,”

pretty, and I think if you actually think for yourself about every single issue, there is no chance you can be one or the other. That's why I don't understand the far ends of it. And when I see that you get hated on by both sides, that's when you know you're probably an independent thinker. Yeah, 100% do you go to my Southwest? No, I'd ever been. I know you and Cara are going, right? Or your whole team is going? Yeah, my whole team's going. If you ever want to go, I can't figure

that out. They would love you. Yeah. I love Austin. I think Austin's fun. Yeah, that's great. Awesome. Well, thank you. Yeah, next time I'd love to do it in person, wherever you end up, are you going to move back to Florida? Well, probably split time between Florida and New York. It depends where my kid gets into school. You know, it's, but I found out it's harder to get your kid into a high school now than it is into, oh, you're younger one. Yeah, yeah, I have a 15-year-old.

So now we've got to start worrying about him. It never ends. How old years? You got a gaggle, right?

Yeah, I do. We have five. Our oldest is 19, our youngest is 11. So all the college stuff. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. It worked out in terms of the college stuff. It has. You know what? I played sports. So like, I didn't really do college visits. I just like met with the head

“football coach and yeah, I liked that offense and so that's why I went to the place where I went.”

Where'd you get to school? So I originally went to Miami University in Oxford, Ohio and I finished my career at Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. It's a Mid-American conference. So, you know, very average career, but it was fun. But now I've, I've won on actual college visits with my daughters and I'm like, this is great. You know, University of Tennessee was fun. Ohio State where one of ours is going to go. It's like, these are so much fun. I was impressed. I loved it. I missed

out on that because of sports, not that I would have ever traded that for anything. But fortunately, the process has been, has been great. I know you want to like on a tour with your older one. I remember hearing about it. It sounds like you guys bonded over those trips. It's great. The America does a small number of things really well. Technology movies with men and capes and tides. We make the best weapons in the world. And hands down, the American University experience,

land, grand, training sororities, fallacies, full-games is singular. And I would say the ceremony. It's a story of privilege. But do you have the opportunity to do a college tour with your kids?

My tour guide from the University of Tennessee, I've literally tried to hire this guy. He's a

“student-body president of the whole school or whatever he's in. And I was blown away by how he was funny,”

you know, perfect timing, exceptionally high EQ, ethnically ambiguous kids. It's exactly what it was. Yeah. I was like, this guy's awesome. My daughter's like, she's getting embarrassed. I'm like, what do you mean? He's great. I write you want to find exceptional people

and find a way to get him to work with you. That's really the whole game of life and building

a business. So anyway, this is awesome. And I really appreciate it and look forward to the next one.

“For sure. Thanks, Ryan. Congrats on all your success.”

It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast. Club, if you are send me a note, Ryan at learningleader.com. Let me know. You learn from this

great conversation with Scott Galaway. If you take away his from my notes, slow time down deliberately,

Scott talked about how he's become more intentional about creating novel experiences as a way to make life feel richer and longer the research backs this up. Action. We all can take put one new experience on your calendar this month. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Maybe a new place, new people, new skill. The goal is novelty and trying to create as many of those novel experiences as possible. Next, see it. Say it. Say the thing. Now, whether it's appreciation or a hard

truth, people appreciate you letting them know where they stand. When you're thinking something great about someone, tell them immediately text them, call them. Write them a note. Say it to him in person. If something needs to be said, the best time to say it is now. I hadn't heard this quote before, but it makes a lot of sense. Action absorbs anxiety. Scott said it's simply, and I think it's one of the more portable takeaways from this entire conversation. When you feel

“stuck, you don't need a better plan. You need to move. Do one thing today that you've been”

postponing, and notice what happens to how you feel after work. Once again, I would say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two. Hey, you should listen to this episode of the Learning Leaders Show with Scott Galway. I think you'll help people come a more effective leader because you continue to do that, and you also go to Spotify and Apple podcast and you subscribe to the show and you're rated. Hopefully five stars need leave a

thoughtful review by doing all of that. You are giving me the opportunity to do what I love in a daily basis, and for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much, talk to you soon. Okay, wait.