Joe Maddon on Rizzo's hangover, Cubs CRAZY pizza party & NEW 2016 World Series stories w/ David Ross

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Here we are at the Loveable Reunion Podcast interviewing our coach, Joe Madden. Coach Anthony's coach, and I come in Anthony's clear. Two-time World Series Champion, one is a manager, and the three-world series.

Second, most winning percentage of Cubs history behind Frank Chance, who Rossi played for.

[LAUGH] I don't expect those to be the bus. That never gets so lit. And I say, Joe, when you surprised everyone in 2015 with Sony with us, it was the first block of building a championship team, and you literally under your leadership turned the lovable loser franchise

into expected World Series contender. So thank you before we get started, but let's give it over Joe Madden. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There were no players there, are you kidding me?

“Thank you, Anthony, and that was, I remember that so well, just getting there in the first place.”

I really didn't have any Cubs tradition built in the NEOs in American League or, you know, I came from the race and a jet and Theo showed up done, and you're neck of the woods done, your Tallahassee, and the Bar Beach, and I was in my RV, and the Bar Beach, and they come then, and they sit down, we sit down, and the pack of my, behind my RV on this little beach back there, and just start talking philosophically, right?

And when you had some history with them, with interviewing in Boston, right? That was many years before that was 2004 when Tito got the job, and I really wasn't ready for that job at that time. I even told them afterwards, you guys, it made the right choice. He was a much better choice for me than me at that particular juncture, but I was the best

choice at that particular juncture I thought. My time at the race really helped me with the planning component of that. I knew what I wanted, you know, you arrive at a point in your life where you know what you know, and that sounds dumb, but some people really don't know what they know. They're their regurgitators.

They're always repeating things that they've heard from somebody else.

But by the time I get to the Cubs, I even have, I mean, with the race, I knew, I really felt that I knew what it would take to put us into that position, and of course, you have to have great players. I mean, managers are good because the players are good, and if you have a really good pitching staff, even better, and if you have a real closer, you can be the best manager

of the race. All that stuff is part of the gig, but you guys are fabulous. It was so interesting, because the race, a great, I love Tampa Bay, and we're here right now. But the tradition of the Cubs, locking the rig we feel every day, I would walk in and look

up and say thank you.

Because I never, I never experienced that and I was great for while you know, but I was

not a manager, and the race played at the drop, which is cool.

“But really feel that I think, for me, is the best professional venue in all sports.”

I'll go to Europe, I'll be soccer stadiums, whatever, and I've put in really up against all of them, because on a daily basis, those people at ballpark, you could play, I'll shut up in a second. But remember, we played the Indians on a Monday and a makeup game, I think it was 2016. makeup Monday, at one o'clock in the afternoon, I think it was less diverse, cloo, clover,

40,000 people, and say, it doesn't happen, so anyway, long answer, but there's so much adrenaline and excitement in that ballpark every friggin day, and then we have a combination. Now, these guys are great players, but think of the charisma of our group, and it started in 15, but it really built into 16, but charismaticly, you guys are so cool to be with on a daily basis, and that was what the bunch of men, that wasn't what the bunch of kids,

and that really was exciting to me too. So there's a lot of contributing factors to that, that was just, I was fortunate and happy to be there, because I felt really good about that group. Well, we mimicked the cool manager of our group, so I decided to box and shave the head

“and spring training, the shots of the press conference, and I remember that press conference,”

they did. Well, Rossi and I had, we were doing an ESPN car wash for the playoffs in 14 or into 15. I remember talking to our agents, we had the same agents, and I was like, Rossi's, what we need as a young team, and then you came over and I was like, oh my god, and then we signed less during Rossi.

Yeah. That was your press conference, it was, you know, I think you said something along the lines of unless you can't be here unless we align perfectly with the front office. Right. And obviously, later on the years, you know, things changed a little bit, and we're

going to stop hitting, and that was, that was tough taxes, and me hitting in those years were very consistent. I got to get jamming you every once in a while. But there's just, I respected you so much from afar as a young player, I was 21 when I called up, wasn't it big weeks for four years before you signed.

And I remember with the raise you did, I think it was like a, uh, with stock trip out

With us.

We did with those things. And all the things you did, and I'm like, this is what we need because I'm like, as a rookie, you're supposed to get to the field at 12 o'clock for a seven o'clock. And I'm like, why are we getting so early? It's nuts.

And everything you did from afar, I aligned with. So when we signed you, I was literally like a kid, and I'm still like a kid every time around. So I appreciate it. What did you try to implement coming in to Chicago, like, what was, you get a new job

and trying to learn everything, and what did you feel like when you first got there,

I really want to change this, or you're really good about being yourself. But what, what kind of a new environment? That's, that's not easy. I learned something, uh, in 1985 for something like that, um, with Jean Moch, that goes back a bit.

I was running the instructional league in Arizona. I was the, the field coordinator and, uh, the manager, I wasn't managing, but I was leading that instructional league group. Jean comes in a ton. I'm out in the cage.

I'm just throwing my beef. But I'm running the whole thing. And Jean walks up to me and he says, uh, in between, he came to me one of these, come over and speak with him. You've created a great environment around here.

And he had his, uh, you know, polyesters on his hair's perfect, smoking a cigarette. He's loved to play golf, rich, smoke little bourbon. Then he just takes off like a poop, you know, you, he just disappears.

“And I thought to myself, what the hell is he talking about?”

I had no idea what he was talking about. And I think when you do things organically, um, you don't know what you're doing sometimes, which is a good thing. It's like the zone of being a coach or a manager, but I went home that night and I thought, what does he talking about?

So I sat around and actually took, no, I wrote notes by my, at that time, I was a big note taker. Uh, we built relationships. And when conversations, and not just talking to somebody, really listening to somebody, there's a difference.

We were talking about that before we started doing this to really listen to somebody. People will have a conversation kind of, but we really listen to one another.

And a lot of times the answer is no, but that's, that was my first takeaway.

And then what happened because of that? We trusted each other. I mean, and I know everybody wants more ground balls, choreographed early work, all kinds of that information, booklets on the bench, everybody wants, that's the, you don't start there.

You start by relationships building, listening to people, then you build trust. And then you can exchange ideas, in other words, like David and I have different perspective or thoughts on something. So you give me yours, I give you mine. And because we built trust, and we have my relationship, it's not going to be like, oh,

I'm not going to listen to Joe. I'm just going to, he's not listening to me right now, it's my way, I'm not going to support him whatsoever. So you get this, this pushback. So, but if you establish those first two things, then we can exchange ideas.

And I can disagree with you, and we can listen because that leads to constructive criticism. Think about it. Think about it. I mean, my best coaches, the guys are really loved, the guys that tell me when I was wrong.

Yeah, yeah.

“Well, you said, honestly, without compassion, it was cruelty, that's why I took that with”

me. As soon as I heard you say that, and you said it early when you get to someone else, it's one of my face. It was game changing for me as a leader, especially as a young leader at the time, was, I can't tell anyone what to do, they don't trust me as a person, they need to know

either best interests. Correct. Because you're going to tell someone, if any coach, you have coaches all the time like, you come on, hey, you should do this, I'm like, hold on, I don't even know you. My name's Anthony.

Nice to meet you. Perfect. Let's have a beer. Perfect. And you instilled that, and you come over and you create the greatest culture of a generation,

really.

And you were such a pioneer in, we were the first team to have music at Spring Training.

Every team, L-30 team now, have music. He's everywhere at, right, right, all the skits, right, you were pioneer with analytics. That was taboo back in the day. And then you transitioned and became more of the sea and feel and analytical guy. So it's like, it's a combination of everything.

The journey of Joe in your what, 50 years, 60 years, 50 years? I don't even know. I started in as a coach in 1981, as a player in '76. But I appreciate that because that's exactly how I feel about it. It's a morphing of things.

It's not just data and analytics. It's also feel and experience and intuition.

“I think, you know, guys, you know, you know, talk green, don't you?”

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Green is one of my players with the angles is Scott now. I wonder if we were to both catchers and trip away. That's a beautiful man.

Beautiful man. That's how I went to the hockey mass. Okay. He kept getting his belt as a belt run with ice. It stopped doing that.

Anyway, so greeny brought to my attention. It's not old school. It's not new school. Being in school, you know, I think we, you know, it is growing. Right.

Because I don't want to argue with you about, uh, but I learned from Bob Clear in 1979 as a coach or what I learned from Andrew Friedman in 2006 or '07, as the young manager with the Tampa Bay race or the devil race at that time. That's not the point because I, all of that is important to me. When you fit extremism in any shape performing in our politics and today's world is awful,

I'm not into extremes.

I think there's a balance to be sought in control and, and, and felt with everything.

So I was at the forefront of the data, data and allidics in the early 2000s. It was all my own stuff. I nobody told me how to do this, but, but I got Bob Clear. I got, I got, I got Jean Moch. I got Whitey Herzog.

I got, uh, Cookie Rollhoss. I got more so much. I could go on. Yeah. Yeah.

I got tons of them. I got all these dudes. Come on. I got their stuff. I knew her stuff that started about 2567 with the devil race.

“And why would I not want to use both sides of this thing?”

Why would you want to rely heavily on one or the other? Why can't you understand is so how important it is to morph these things together to really come to being in school.

Green was brilliant when he told that to me.

So that's where the, that's where we lie today. It's too heavy hand that I believe, one side, being the more analytical data driven, controlling side as opposed to the empowerment side, which is the intuition, the field, the experience side. For me, if you really want to win championships on a regular basis, learn how to bring

them both together. Because I want, if I ever got to do this again, I want the best analytical staff money can buy. But information. Absolutely.

But then I want the best tobacco spit and honest talent experienced. Guys, it. Oh. Oh. They tell you truth guys.

I got the managerial job and we talked for like an hour and you told me don't take for granted and forget your experience because that's going to guide you and that's really going to, like, try, you know, advice is, you know, we don't want to listen to our gut.

But your gut is your experience talking to you and the things that you've been through

and the dog has a player. Like, don't forget those as a manager because they carry a ton of weight and a ton of value. I'm going to make a recommendation right now. I've read a book recently.

I'm reading it right now. It's called y'all already know. The ladies up, the professor from Northeastern University, Laura Huang, I found somebody sent me like a little excerpt of her work. So I got in touch with her.

I called her on the phone. Brilliant. This lady's a young lady, she teaches at Northeastern and the whole book is about experience intuition, gut feeling. Wow.

Yeah. And it's really, it's academic, academic, but she explains it in such a wonderful way that

“it's very identifiable and that's the part part of the world today that I think we're getting”

away from. The AI is going to take even further away from that. You're going to rely more. Why do we want machines to tell us how to live and what to be and how to do things? Why?

Even in a sport, why do you want to rely on a machine, data information, math, whatever you want to call. Why? Why is it so important to do that and why do you think, I would say, give me my give you the best coaching staff that I could put together and I'll battle your AI all day long.

And I mean, there's no staff that you brought in for us. Exactly. There's no definitive reason why you think just because this data and information is AI stuck. I'm here to tell you, if I get like the right group of coaches together and I still want

to utilize that. I still want my information and you can utilize, go ahead and buy some good coaches yourself. But just give me that opportunity. We're going to, we're going to bust your balls right down to the very end under those circumstances.

And that's what's missing. And it's the human element. Got things? The human, we're just talking about the culture and everything else we had. You're not going to get that from a computer.

“Well, I think that's what we, I wanted to get into because we feel like our coaches on”

that 2016 team were game changers like, can you walk through just like the guy's busty, boarzy, hider, Jonesy, boss, David Martinez. Yeah. I mean really like and ski and ski. Yes, guys, that we're in the trenches every day and it's like, you were so good Joe

at distracting the media, distract the players from the media that I think guys don't even understand to where the managers are has to do so many obligations and then David would just come in and let, I had our phrase prisoners around the asylum, but they let, you guys let us run the asylum. Of course.

Which structure, every so often the wardens had to step in and get us in line. But if, if there was fires to be put out, either come and talk to you or the easiest manager I've ever was able to talk about or David would come in to, hey, this is why we're doing this or now we're not doing that. And like that was it, you, you love the, um, uh, Uncle Sam posted, right?

Oh, yeah. That's one of the paintings we did. And you know, the main theme of that is the more freedom given the greater respect and discipline return. Totally.

As a professional, I'm not going to do that with fifth graders. Okay, I'm not going to let a bunch of fifth graders run the asylum. But if you're a professional, you know, 20 plus year old, old enough to drink, old enough to vote, old enough to die in a ward. And I'm going to tell you, um, everything, how to act on a daily basis, no, the more freedom

I give you, the greater respect I'm going to get coming back towards me. And more freedom I give you, the more you're going to actually listen to me. Totally. We have freedom. At least, at least the way, at least the way what I have to say.

Sure.

Right?

Because I never, I never, I could almost use the word never, uh, created, I can eat it.

Uh, you got to do this. We got to do that. The closest I came to that, you don't remember this since 2015. And, uh, we did cut off some relays. Yeah.

Yeah. I hated it. And I stopped everything. I remember Starland Castro. I remember all the dudes, I remember Harvey just going through the motions.

We started doing relay catch. That's right. You realize we didn't screw up a free. We didn't put any on it. We like, that's right.

It's right. It's right. It's just an honest one. We can't take it too serious. No, how to do the fun of it.

Exactly. You have three rules in 2015. Do simple better. That's right. Respect 90.

And our dress code. If you take you to the car. I wear it. That's right. You said in those speeches, bring trains like whoever made some put in a collar on a shirt.

All the same white one. That's right. Right. And that, that alone, to a young group that's still learned how to win in 15 was like, this is amazing.

You don't. You got pissed off. We didn't play hard. Right. You got, sell them to the guys.

No, you got pissed off. But as we got to know you a little bit. Right. We could tell. Yeah.

And if there was mental errors. And that's what we knew. So it's like, don't, don't fuck up. Don't be that person. And we can literally do whatever you want to do.

And it was, and the spring training, you say, and a brother. It was a band of brothers. And we, and you gave us that freedom. And I think that's how a team. A team needs to be led by players.

Right. Absolutely. But you would say in your speeches, bring training. You would say, you guys all know wrong from right. That's correct.

It's correct. It's not hard. I've been using that since like 19, whatever. And I've managed the, I don't know, false angels in the Salem angels in 1981, 1823. That would be part of what I talked to these guys about.

You know what's right and wrong. I don't have to stand up here and tell you what's right and why you grew up in a family. You have a father of a mother. You had teachers. You had coaches.

You know what's right and wrong. But I thought like write it down on a piece of paper. Choose right. Yeah. Just choose right every time.

And we're not, we're not that right. That's right. We're not going to have any issues. Because I'm not going to stand here and just load over you and be your father. I'm not your dad.

I'm, I'm your manager. And I'm here to make sure this runs properly. And I met for me. It's about on the field. I wanted, I wanted a uniformity.

I wanted consistency. That's, that's where I want it to. Uh, this, this couldn't, I don't want to use a word conformity.

“But again, you need to probably the right way to put it off the field.”

I wanted to address, I'll be you want it. Where you're here, I'll be you want it. I don't care how many earrings you were. I didn't care about any of that. This doesn't matter.

But when you got on the field. At that point, if I gave you enough freedom to be yourself, you're going to give me that respect back, play the game properly. That's what I was thought. I remember you getting flagged.

Uh, we picked a guy off first in the Washington DC. It was out of the game. Yeah, it was so good. No, it was um, the first. Anyways, we picked him off.

And you were like, did you call that play? You let them do that. You're like, of course, we let them do it. Like, they see an opportunity. I'm going to take advantage of it.

And I think that freedom. Like you said, you handled all of me as stuff.

I never felt like there was this curse, this thing hanging over.

Like, because we are only going to do a unit. Sure. Then inside the clubhouse. It's a group. The modeling crew.

And you let us kind of have that freedom within that structure. And I thought that's what brought out the best in and all of us. I mean, myself included. Was that the last of the game? That was the game.

Yeah, pick them off. Yeah, pick them off. Then we had that backpack. They were like, what if he doesn't write field? Was like, well, what if he does?

You know, I'm wondering, what if you could fly? What if you fell? What if you could fly? The point was, if it's a right baseball plate to do, then do it. And if it doesn't work out, well, I'm okay with that.

But it was a right thing to do in the moment. That's true.

“And when you have to worry about making a mistake, then you'll never do the right thing.”

Yeah. That's right. You're going to do the movie. Right, right. Absolutely.

You literally, I don't think Havi knows this. I'm sure he does. But how you handled Havi and just let Havi be Havi. He turned into the magician. He turned into the wild man.

And he played into that. And that's why I believe he blossomed. Because you see guys all the time on that type of town. Well, maybe not his town. But come up and just don't have the right man.

Just a baseball genius. He just sees things other people don't see. And then he's able to react upon what he's seeing also. See, if you see something, and there's any kind of hesitation in that moment's gone. So that's that's purely reacted to a moment and he's able to do that.

But he has to be able to he has to know that if he does it and it doesn't turn out well. He's not going to the principal. That's right. I mean, if he knows he's going to go to the principal's office every time, he can try this stuff. Right.

About the place between third and home, the running place.

Where he's safe. Yeah. Right. I mean, stuff with him. It's for him.

It's for him. I was like, what? And what just happened. Right. Did you talk to him?

“Did you remember conversations talking to him or no?”

Oh, yeah. Well, the most of the time when I did talk when he was getting out of control to play. That's when I would talk to him.

I say, hobby, right, center counts.

You know, that's how the field matters all for counsel.

“So I think primarily I'd be that my conversations would be more.”

When I thought he was getting a little out of control offensively. But on defense. And I know what am I going to tell you. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. What am I going to tell him? There's nothing I could help him with. I mean, that's another thing to know as a coach as a manager. Even as a hitting coach, young gym admins.

I'm up in Vancouver with them. I'm the rowing mindily hitting instructor. And James is just like tearing it up like he could. Right. And I've this going.

And I just I stand out the side. I just watch him and I'm watching. He's just tearing it up. So I'm there for a couple days. And he's like, you know, my coming.

I'm not talking to me. It's because I can't help you. I can't. I can't. I can only serve the confusion right now.

So please permit me to just watch. I'm taking my notes. When I come back in a ton of things aren't right. I'll say something to you. But for right now, I cannot help it.

I can only hurt you. I don't exactly that. I want to side track because this is like so important to us. A little bit and it has to do with culture. But knowing your players and having all the background.

You did the five levels of a big league. Yeah. Oh, I like that is the compassion. You compassion you had for your players knowing. Kind of where they're at.

And everybody was unmasked.

“And I think that's different when you're actually a player in the middle of it.”

And then as a veteran, I look back. I was like, that's exactly right. Can you really list those real quick? Yeah. Let me tell you exactly how it happened.

95, six. Six. I was the first base coach. Yeah. What the angels and Marcel Lachman, wonderful.

Wonderful. Might have been 95. But anyway, 95.

Lach, if things didn't work out well, always put the hit.

He always thought it was this fall. And of course, it wasn't. Marcel was one of the best. If not the best pitchy coach ever. So we lose a tough game when I'm stating and I always.

I would sit with him until he left because he was just beat himself up. So we're sitting there and I'm just, I'm just observing. I don't know. I don't know. I'm never playing in the big leagues.

I don't know. So I'm sitting there that night. And I'm taking it all in. I go back to my uncle Rick's house. I remember Uncle Rick up in Long Beach.

And I get there. And all of a sudden I had this epiphany. And I, again, piece of paper by my bed. I wrote it down. What am I seeing here?

What am I seeing? I don't know. I've learned five levels. Level one happy to be here. I was right there. I was right.

And I was right there. I was only called up a year. Year before it must have been 95. Happy to be here as level one. Right.

And we all, like you said, I lost a brand new leather bomber jacket at the Herz counter. My trip from Vancouver to Ann on from my first trip to the Big leagues. Because it was so excited. Just happy to be there. And then once you get there,

I got to the big leagues with the Dodgers and didn't play. And like about the seventh day. And I'm like, some big trip away. I was told to be Alex Core actually told me. I said, it goes, how you doing?

Ross is like, just happy to be here.

He's like, never say that.

Never say that. I want to go back and play. Exactly. So then when you, when you write that we realize all that, then you wouldn't get to the next point.

Man, I really like this. I want to stay here. This is really good. Survival. And survival is very dangerous.

Because when you're like happy to be here, you could help the team. You're not there playing your free-wheeling it. You have your blinders on. You don't even see the third day get the lights,

whatever you don't read the papers. You don't care. So you're able to be productive and helpful. But the moment the blinders come off, you start to see everything.

And man, I'm really digging on this stuff. I want to stare. Then you become very cautious. And you don't want to make mistakes. You don't want anybody yelling at you.

But you're not playing you because of that. So it's more from happy to be here to like, damn, stage two survival. I like this. I want to stay here.

Dangerous, dangerous spot. And guys in that level really. Of course, they can help you win. But their motivation isn't right. The motivation is to not.

To not. To not stop. Yeah, all the selfish and a little bit. Exactly. And then here comes level three.

And this is what you want to get to.

“And I remember, you know, for me specifically,”

even as a coach. I belong here. I can do this. You know, that's, that's a really strong epiphany. That moment.

When you look around at your peers. And you feel like you're as good as everybody else here. Everybody else out here. And you can do this on a daily basis. I can contribute.

I know what to say in a meeting. I know how to break this down. Because it's the same game. But it's completely different. Mine links to big ways.

You'll be all know that. So that's it. Level three. I've been longer. I can do this.

Wow. That's when you actually exhale.

I think we're the first time.

Level four. I want to make as much money as I thought. Yeah. All van there. Right exactly.

It's true. Because it's a limit. You don't do it for 40 years. It's not like you're a doctor or a lawyer. Whatever you can do this for many.

You have a definite finite time limit regarding doing that. And that's a whole other pressure. Exactly. I want to have a good year. But there's a lot going on there, man.

So you get to level four. I want to make as much know as I can. Here comes level five. After you've made some money. All you want to do is win.

And it's true. I mean, you go to the ballpark.

There's no weather agenda.

You don't have to think about anything else.

But winning. That's it. I mean, you. You. The blinders are on.

You see this. You're, your, your, your focus is outstanding. You're not worried about all kinds of bullshit or crap. You don't worry about it. You're just worried about doing my job.

And then maybe helping somebody else around me. And tonight's objective is to win. And how do we do that? We had a lot of those guys veteran guys. That's true.

Yes, all my guys. I think some money.

“I think what was great, too, is because the mix of veteran.”

Yeah, young players need that help.

That it was so easy to be level one through three. Yeah, but also be level five. Because there was no one there that wasn't expecting to win every night. And that was the way your style of management. You played pretty much went every night.

That's right. Very rarely related down. No, right. That's right. Very rarely we talked it.

And when we did point, it was okay. Yeah, it was okay. When we went through a skid. Like, I remember hints he said all the time. I'll tell you one guy who does not panic.

And he would point at you all the time. You're manager does not. I mean, I'm sure you had your own emotions. But there's teams you're on. And like you see all the the structure starting to crumble a little bit.

The coaching staff started to point fingers a little bit. And it was that never. I was so grateful it took me so long to become a major league manager. You know, because I observed. And I regret that I don't.

Yeah, the experience. Yeah, the managers. Yeah, I mean, that's that's the honestly got truth. I mean, I I saw from so many different angles. Being a minor league, robbing instructor was very helpful, too.

Just going from town to town every every five, six days. You go to a different city. See a different manager, you're a see a different manager. There's on the other side.

And I was always observing what was going on with these managers and how they handle situations.

So that's part of it also. So by the time I get to the major leagues. I knew like I said, I know what I know. I knew I knew. I could give you I would give you examples.

If you pointed out different situations, I'd give you an example. I would call recall situations where. That's where I learned this from. And that's why I was able to process it the way I did. That's the experience component of it that I that we're just talking about at the control versus experience.

The empowerment versus control. I mean, I learned all of that stuff. So when we got the different situations, I swear to you. I don't even know I this is not like a bragging kind of a comment. I don't know what those with you guys.

If anything pop that I really had not been through before when you put. When you put Travis wouldn't let you. I don't know what they're doing.

“Like, remember that that was the night that the lefty pitch matters.”

Yeah, that's it. We've already discussed that game. Remember, remember, see you came in. Yeah, pissed off the whole coaching staff. Lesser told that story.

Yeah. It was, it was hairy. I remember we spoke about it. But I remember Theo. I got a sound box about that.

Yeah. Yeah. very county came in and he's waiting on everybody my bad and then you are the squeeze bomb bastard in it. Pitches squeeze. Yeah, that was sick. Fearless. The thing was I give the a lot of credit because the one on the walk during the game you saw up, set with itself. Because the way the first was they scored six runs in the first two and three and three and it's not that we need to two to two. No, that's the kind of bond that brings things together. No doubt about it. So you take chances when you're going to lose if you're losing. The sky is a limit. You just roll everything on.

It's not there. You can be way more liberal under those moments. You're way more conservative when it's tighter. You just are. It's just a, it's the way the game's played. So when you're losing or in a process of losing, you do anything you can to possibly went. Yeah. And that's that was the wouldie thing. And then we did it with strope and left field. And since an adding one time or two, that's the least, Joe West and the help I was really getting upset with me because I was like testing the rules a little bit. Yeah, the five minutes.

It's a tough time to be playing. That was you. That is the goal. We talked about it and I talked about it. But we, he and I talked about that. That was like really good. That was your idea. The original. That was his idea. Well, it permitted us to do the backpicks with a hobby and all kinds of stuff. And then I'll do. Yes. Right. So when you, when you prep against the clubs, they, there's so much to talk about. No doubt. So much to talk about. I want to, I want to, I want to talk coach all day one more thing. I want to hit on how did you, you said you've learned this. How did you get the celebration after winning?

“So that was a big part that was the pioneer. That was a big part of us trying to remember that one hit into fish shots after we sweep. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes shots before the game.”

I'm trying to think like the first time the celebration, I was at the race. And I can't remember the, the Genesis of it. But I do remember the Genesis of the disco ball. I told West, he was the clubhouse guy. So Westy, we need some disco balls in here. So like the game would be over. We'd walk, we win and all of a sudden you'd like a nightclub. It was like the, the warm up lounge in Hazelton. That's what I wanted to look like. So we walk in there and like all this stuff's going on. We had Chris rock one night at the head of the line. We won. We won. He's yelling as we walk in the locker with the, with the disco balls going. So that was the first thing. And that is just worked from there, morphed into us.

St.

James played. Yeah, and we turned ours into. Yeah, then that we took it to another. We had an actual soul bridge. Yeah, we had a lot of stuff.

But it never got old. It never got old. No, it doesn't get old celebrating. It's hard. It's old. That's right.

When it's in the best part about that is lose for 30 minutes. Right. Because there's so many games. And it was like after 30 minutes, even if it was a tough off. All right. That's it. Under the next one. That was the problem when I had what the angels when I in the late in the middle to late 90s.

“You remember we lost a huge lead to the Mariners in 96 who were up by 13 or 14 games.”

I was like, I was five. August, like August, six or six. You. I was five or six. I'll get your bone on August 8th or 9th. Okay. Okay. How about I knew that? That's correct. We're so we have like a 13 or 14 game lead in the beginning of August. And we lose it. We have a one game play up with the Mariners at the end of the season. We lost many Johnson versus Langston in the kingdom. I was the first base coach. Anyway.

That team and teams after that I felt would take a loss and turning it to tomorrow's loss also. Oh, this by the way, they reacted. I'm watching guys coming to the next day. They're selling, can't even talk each other. You know, Dave Hollins, I love Dave Hollins. It David would be like you covered dead. Yeah, he did not like to lose brother.

But I would like, I would like, oh, it's funny, man. God did he make me laugh. But you, you come in the next day. And you're still, we just lost. It felt like we just lost. And I hated that. I knew that was why we're going to lose today and possibly again to more. To we finally shake it, get back to being normal.

So that, that made me think of that. Well, that's just that simply the celebration one helped you in that day. Right. Right. And then same with about 30 minutes. Like fine, salt 30 minutes. But it really, really.

And then yeah, people can come in whatever it's just so easy to go through the motions. Winner who's like, all right. Well, not the treatment I have to do this now. Right. Exactly. It's like hold on.

“Let's celebrate the guys that they player the game.”

That's right. But bring guys in and make everyone feel a part of it. If a reliever got big outs, right? Those guys are on islands. Sure. Pictures. So it was, it was incredible.

But losing hard for 30 is also more because somebody may have had like some guys have a good game too, you know. And then, and but we've lost. So they expected. Yes, you control all of that. Also, there's there's respect built in the both sides of that. Whether to celebrate because of some guys when you win had a horrible day. Yeah.

So, but they slept in the win. Yes. That's also big time. Yeah. That's what your veterans need.

Yeah. Yeah. When I would be bad or not play well, I had to be so happy. And it helped me get over and not playing. Right.

It was like winning cures everything. Absolutely. If I stuck and we won, it was like all right. And that's awesome. They're not everybody's like that.

Yeah. You know. Yeah. But you've got to learn that skill set from around good veterans. The leader ship is like, no, no, no.

We won. I know you had a bad day made three errors and went over. But like back to tomorrow. Because that's the one.

“I think the short term memory is so important in baseball in particular because it is every.”

There's no coincidence. I was going back down three one. No, no. That was all literally two years of life. Lessons.

That were all learning from veterans and young guys. Yeah. It was just. Yeah. And when we were talking about trust, I thought of I came in your office one day.

And I was like, this is the type of manager that you were to me. They were like a second dad as my manager. And it was I was like, man, last night. I think we went to the Avery and Chicago. And they make these like crazy drinks.

We drink a bunch of wine and we're in our house. We got after the last thing. Oh, nice. You asked me what I was drinking. You just hit the middle one today.

And it was our walk out of there. I feel so good. I just told my manager. I got absolutely annihilated by tonight. And he supported me.

And I probably went out and had a great game. Sometimes it's necessary brothers. That's necessary. That's necessary. That's we play everyday.

We play everyday.

And for those that had never played everyday have no idea what that feels like.

And I'm not just talking about physically. The mental part of this game is a devastating part of this game. When you can control your your thoughts and your actions mentally. That's a difference between being a superstar. Just in a picture.

Being a big league or being a for a guy. Guy that really can never get over the hump from AAA to that for a. We call it for a because it's the the tweeter guy between being a minor league and a major league. But you can't get over that. It's not because your skills aren't good.

Your brain just can't deal with it, man. Yeah. And when you can deal with it when you learn how to like throw it away. Uh, I said, "To guys sometimes you see that big lake out there." Oh, yeah.

And look like I called you. I called it a notion. Underright home tonight take all those thoughts. Put rapid on a big old rock to throw it in that lake. And then come back tomorrow because you don't need those thoughts.

Yeah.

I always said when I played.

If I was able to mentally shut off for one hour. It was equivalent to two weeks. Of course. Of reset. Sure.

So like I go out on Lake Michigan or hang out with some friends or go out in Chicago or on the road.

Or T.

Yeah. I was so hungover in the flight home. When I was especially sensitive. And I get, I check the box school when we land. And heaven and half had the only RBI.

So like, yeah. We want this as one. And I'm like, "How in that heck are they even seeing it?" And that's plenty. Yeah.

I'm like, "I'm like training one morning." So spring training one year. We go to Vegas every year. Yeah. You call me in the office.

And I lined it up perfect. I was going to play the first game. Yeah. You were giving me off the set. Right.

And I was like, "Let's sit the whole night up." Right. Joe Cousman is office. Maybe a day or two before he goes, "Hey, you know, Vegas puts on a big show." Right.

They need you to play the second game. They're like, "Oh, and I told him I had this whole night." I'm like, "Oh, he's like, don't worry about it." He's like, "You're going to come in to have a great night." There's going to be three balls.

Try to hit the center one. And then I brought the idea up.

“I think of the Bloody Mary station and the most of bar.”

Okay. And the next morning, we, or in Vegas, we had a Bloody Mary bar. And it was like, we were there to work and also have fun. And if you don't do both, you're going to explode at some point. That's the point.

It's all about balance. The whole world's about balance. Your life's about balance. You got a new baby right now. You know exactly what that feels like.

Once you have a child of your own, you understand what the word sacrifice really means.

And until you have that baby, you'll never really know what the word sacrifice truly means.

Everything's exposed to you as you go through life. And in baseball right now. And I'm just going to pound on it for a second because right now, the things we're talking about are not really embraced anyway. They're not really considered important anymore. And to me, they're the most important part of it.

So all the other stuff that you want to teach me that's great. And I want, I want to, like I said, the best coaches want the best staff, whatever. But I also want a pressure release valve. There's enough pressure being applied to athletes. I was watching the NBA game last night with the spurs and the nicks.

So I was going to play in the championship game in the first month of the season. Pretty much my god. But that's kind of like the WBC class, I guess, right? You know, a couple years ago when we were in a funny pitch. But anyway, I believe in the pressure release valve.

And I don't, I don't know that enough people understand that. Everybody that's really never done what you guys have done. It's so much respect for what you guys have done. And that's where my, my perspective comes from. I never did it.

I was, I was good maybe once two, three times a week at the most as a baseball player. And so the guy that could play every day.

“I think, how can he, how can he maintain his focus, his sanity?”

And not only that, your physical repetition of your skill. No, that's, that's, that's big. Yeah. Because, you know, to be able to do, everybody takes it for granted. But, David, whether it's your good batting stroke, whether it's your good throwing stroke, your good fielding stroke, whatever it might be to do that every day is.

Dustin, one percent of the population would have a certain pressure. It's so special. You and that's so different. He was a switch.

I was a switch guy when he was playing his switch as always on.

Okay. So he come in. But he's playing well. Whatever. That's it.

Just a professional player once there. Yes, I of course. I know less than I could be. Yeah. And I was up.

Lessers asked. I'm like, if you suck down, I'm going to hit it. Yeah. Yeah. It's just four hours.

I only get three of bats. Not four. And then, then, then, who hears about it? Yeah, he's right there. He had had a great part.

You know, one night of what day of my life, my office was about something. I said, I pitch it for you or something like that. Oh, in Pittsburgh. Yeah, you came in because I really pissed off. I had a great conversation.

It was kind of exactly how it went down.

But you were always open.

“Well, I think it was like, uh, it was in 15.”

And I think I pinched it for. And from, um, like, uh, a little -- He was an angry elephant. Yeah. But I was just like, yeah.

It was just one of those things. You always hated getting pinched it for. But I didn't think the guy pinched it for me was better than me. It was one of those. So, uh, it's so --

There's Al Contra or something like -- Oh, could have been, yeah. The little, uh, sort of -- Yeah. Yeah.

But he's never had the big league pop. We tried to pop. That's when it said it to me off. Um, when you were going to get mad at me, because I would be off. And I would keep my switch off all the time.

I don't -- I would go kind of go Rossi. You know, I could flip the switch at any time. I mean, I'm -- My switch always needs to be on. What I managed are, I came in and ripped the team one day.

Just had an explosion, which -- There wasn't many of those, but he -- After we were, he came to my office and he goes, I was almost -- I had to hold myself back from laughing. Almost.

I was getting hooked. I was like, uh, right out. I was so drunk. I want to get into 15 and talk a little bit. Talk a little bit about, we have our ideas.

But when did you think we were good in 15? When are you like, oh, these guys figured it out? Was it a moment or -- what was -- We feel like it was San Francisco. Remember us, San Francisco?

Yeah. For a game sweep. Yeah. Yeah. Who is that?

August? That was -- like August. Yeah. Yeah. And that was also, um, Addison, a short stop.

And -- and start on the second base.

Maybe he had just --

Oh, first question. Sorry. I had a hit as a good one.

“Did you -- how hard did you fight for KV?”

KV to break camp with us in 15? Or did you at all? I didn't. You could -- did you have to say -- There was no.

There was nothing I could do because -- Yeah. It's all about the rules. I mean, yeah. They could in that as much as they want.

But it's all about the rules. Yeah. And you could do about that. Yeah. Not a thing.

It was going off. Perfect. It happened with Longorey here when I was with the -- Yes. Longore went down for a couple weeks and came up and tore it up.

Yeah. KV was down, came up and tore it up. It's that -- You just know the process. Yeah, it's nobody's fault.

There's just the rules of the game. That's all that was. So there's nothing to fight as a manager. There's nothing I could have done as -- Okay.

It's a jean mock manager that would have never happened.

As a -- or a waiver that would have never happened. I don't even know if the rules -- The manager had control. Oh, my God. Everybody, I mean, everybody was afraid to come into your clubhouse.

The GM, the assistant GM, anybody else who worked upstairs was afraid to come in a big league clubhouse. It was that daunting. I love that. I'm not -- that is not an exaggeration.

That's how it should be. That's exactly the truth. It's not a player to take over the right way.

“So I think the GM's are the ones that are in their everyday,”

but in a positive way. Right? Given -- given better set of feedbacks. Yeah. But when did you feel like we were good?

The famous, "Miggy Monterey". We are good. We are good. When did I feel we were good? I was like --

Obviously, the San Francisco series -- because I remember driving to the ballpark. We were good before that. I can't remember -- I can't give you a specific -- We couldn't. We couldn't.

We couldn't. We didn't lose a bunch of row. We just kind of -- I thought the San Francisco series was the seminal moment because it was the Giants.

And I remember driving my pickup truck down Clark on the way to the ballpark. And I'm getting myself jacked up because I thought this is big.

I mean, I never -- I never applied more weight to anything,

but I thought this one's kind of big. To handle the Giants right now could really send us the trajectory we're looking for. And it did. So we're going there.

And we win the first street in the last game. We got the basis loaded. Nobody out. We're up three to two and run. Don't get sawed up.

It's somehow. That's right. But I thought that was a seminal moment in the year where we after that we knew we were good. We did.

It's not about when I did. It's like when the guys know you're good, everybody is contributing. Everybody. But our defense got tight.

Our defense, I mean, with Addison there, and starting over there. Everything changed defensively, which really was big at that point. But yeah, I think for me, if I had a --

because I'm matching the question based on the fact that I remember driving on Clark. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty hard. I remember us keeping them and they would have two championships on the back. That was the other car.

Yeah. That was the other car. Yeah. That was the other car. Yeah.

Yeah. Like I said, all those guys, buster and all the boys. Let's come in Longgarner. Yeah. I mean, they were loaded.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In 2015, you had to move a superstar shortstop from shortstop to second base. And he did it with --

Great thing. Great thing. Starlink Hasher was so -- Yeah. He was such a good leader, especially a Latin leader,

which it was like amazing. For me, he was one of my biggest matchers. But for it to be able to do that and move him off shortstop to second. And he feel good about it. It was like --

It's a story in itself. I remember it because we're talking right now.

“I'm sitting in that little manager's office and starting sitting right over there, right?”

And I'm explaining the things to him. You know, I'm sure you hated it, right? But he'd never -- he never did this respectful. He listened all the way through. And this is really the best part about that for me as a manager because I think this is the way it should be.

It was just me. It wasn't like a front office dude with me or anything like that. It wasn't like -- I wasn't being supported or the conversation didn't include other voices. That's me. And him.

As it should be. No doubt. The only time you bring somebody else into think there's going to be a fight. And the guy's pretty big. But anyway, he sat there and he took it.

And I told me what's going to play for a couple days.

I told him that because we wanted to get him used his second base and never cried.

You remember how well he played after that? Yeah. He didn't have about Fanzasoriano. Because Soriano was such a good leader. He saw you have like -- I think Soriano played the system as the entire year.

He wanted to play every day. Stalin taught me every day and 13. I hit like 230. Hey. Keep your head up.

We play every day. You play every day. I don't care if we play every day. And I learned as a young player. That's how it's valuable.

That's how you earn worse. I will. Most of my respect. When you're talking about that. Yeah.

Some of the advice I've passed along, I've used a lot. It's like when I was managing like, you know, I tell the guys the truth because I like to them. You know, like give them that line. You know.

Yeah. I mean, it's not like in baseball but anything else. If I tell you the truth, you might not like me for a week or 10 days. But if I lied to you, you're going to hate me forever. That's such a truth.

And going back on, it players experience it, especially when I was coming up. It was a little bit more.

They would sugarcoat some things after not to eat.

Right. And all you wanted to do as a man is like, just tell me where I stand. Right. That then it's on me. And you did a good job with that.

But that phrase I've used so much just because it's like, again, you try to have compassion with it. But I'm going to hit you with the truth. No one on in your side. I'm on your side.

But I'm going to just be completely honest and transparent.

“Because I think that's the best way to for you to be able to deal with it and us to move forward.”

Everybody moves forward after this, right? Exactly.

Otherwise, there's always this consternation interpretation.

What does he really mean? All the stuff. All the stuff is shining and ready to get, it gets dragged out. This is the sharp knife compared to the dome light. Always use the sharp knife.

Always when it comes to a tough decision, use the sharp knife. Because then it has a chance to heal more quickly. The dome knife, you get a bad edge. It just gets, it doesn't scar properly, whatever. And eventually it turns into like a scar tissue that really never goes away.

Use the sharp knife when you use the sharp knife. And like you just said, everything moves forward rather quickly after that. Another pioneer thing was you would send a line about the night before. Well, yeah. And that was, I never heard of that.

I did that. I don't know if you did. Now it's hated. That was almost a cost of standard practice. Because if, for me, thankfully,

I'd play it. I'd play it every single day. I'd play it every single day. I'd play it every single day. But I never worried about it.

But being a leader on the team and say,

"Happ wasn't playing, or sure it wasn't playing."

You got to talk them off the ledge.

“And if you get to the field and they see that day that they're in the line,”

they're not in their pissed off all day. Yeah. Over 162, it just takes a little chunk of the armor. Yeah. You know, and you need all guys pulling the same real time.

I'll tell you how to learn that. Thereiners, that. You guys are the worst thing. Yeah, I know. Do it.

Don't miss it. You're salty. He's talking to her. I don't play with him, either. I love that man.

He reminds me a lot like, he's got ugly. He's got ugly. Yeah. He's going to do whatever takes to win. Correct.

So, with socials and manager, and we didn't do that. We didn't put the line about the night before. So, going to the next day, and I'm a charge. I'm the bench coach, doing all the paperwork and stuff. I got to go tell her.

She's not in the line up.

Oh, my God. He says, "Why do you tell me last night?" Because if you don't tell somebody the night before, they're not in the line up. And every day, guys. Then you really don't have a day off.

You got to go to the... Or the night off. Right. Because you go through your whole routine. You get up at the same time.

You eat whatever you want to eat. You come to the ballpark at the same time. So, you really don't get a day off. Unless somebody knows they have a day off. I regularly play it the night before.

Like the utility guy is not necessarily as much. But a regular guy really needs to know the night before. For him to truly have a day off. So, earthy taught me that. So, I used to do that even before that.

Though I did that in instructional leagues. When I did instructional leagues, I used to put a week's worth of line-ups up in advance. So, everybody knew when they were playing. And instructionally, you play different days. Obviously, you're not just an everyday guy.

But I wanted guys to requisition. They're working a way that he can maximize their work. And they knew what they had to do on a daily basis. Yeah. So, when I got to late as an interim manager.

I was that couple of times with angels. I would have the line-up as they were walking out the... After the night came, whatever. On the door as they walk out the next day's line-up. And that's when I started doing it.

So, that was in... 96, I was an interim manager. And 99, I was an interim manager. That's when we did that day. So, I remember this.

It was so good. And I'm going to plug Corona here. Stropping. Stropping was grinded for us for, like, in August of September. And you told him the night before you are not hitching tomorrow.

And the next day, there was, like, a little blow-up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's locker with a bucket of Corona. That's a little umbrella during a beach chair.

And I was dying. Because you recognize that. And you're like, no, you've grinded for us. You're down. You're down.

And you enjoy it. And it's always for me. It was like, when I was down. I knew I wasn't playing for the most part. Right?

Or I turned off until, like, the biggest issue. And it had to be, like, something dire. We had to use it. Yeah. Well, and from all of us is now...

The one thing that I... I've definitely saw as a player and try to use as a manager. Like, you give your everyday player off. It's not an off day if you're expecting to have the pinch hit. Right?

Because it's not a turn on before. Right. If you turn on when you're an everyday player, if your mind turns on, it's not an off day. Yeah.

If you're. So when I would, like, I would tell you young guys. I told Anthony Volpi. He heard a shoulder and he had a couple of days off. I'm like, dude, just watch the game with no expectation.

That's right. Just be a fan of the game. Sit on the top set and enjoy where you are.

“And if you have to turn on to get a pinch hit,”

just do it. It's one and back. Like, stay off because that's stress. That mental stress. That's not even 100% of the value of off days.

The value of the everyday player. I backed up by a mechanic land. I was like, my one goal is not to get this guy up off the seat.

You know, like, that's how I get this person on to win.

Yeah.

I want to win today because I know if we're winning.

He doesn't pinch hit for me or force for somebody and go in. But, um. Fast forward to the end of 15 a little bit.

“Uh, I think the Pittsburgh wildcard game is the most important game.”

It comes. I think that's the most wild game of all right. How about it? You let. You let area that go CG.

Right. The nastiest vision of the planet by far. But that would that would be so taboo in today's game. Were you kidding me? Well, well, um, well, yeah, my mother just did it right with the dialiers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, but let me, let me give you the history on that one. You remember? We were playing Minnesota in Minnesota. And, uh, Jake pisses.

Ninety complete game shut out. I think it was a four hit or it might have been a two four hit or whatever. But we won eight nothing. So I got a lot of crap because I did not pull him out when we started leading. Eight nothing in that game.

We were out with a closer game. I think seventh rate inning. We scored several runs and then eventually made it eight nothing. Going into the night inning. I think he had like a right around 110 pitches.

Easy to pull him at that point. The thing that I learned is a minor league coach. I thought instructor. When the dude walks off the mountain with a complete game shut out. Changes them.

Changes them. And I thought and I thought within within limits let him go back out there. I think ended up with nine innings. One twenty two one twenty three one twenty four shut out. And very limited number of hits without bowler of confidence.

That's it. I mean you you a mind once another and mind once stretched. Has a difficult time going back to its original form. So the once you stretch your mind to nine innings. And I like this.

It's a drug. I want to do this all the time. I got a lot of crap in the front office. I've got a lot of crap in the front office. Why don't you pull him after I gave him the exact reason I'm telling you right now.

“I can remember Colin Charlene pitching a complete game in Palm Springs.”

And whatever the year that was on the rolling instructor. David Holyrich same thing.

You guys you've never heard about.

But it definitely enhanced their there. Mine really careers at that point. But. So when he gets to the playoff game in Pittsburgh. Takes the net before.

Why don't want to go down his mind. He's treating. He's treating. I don't know if he saw those. It's like, they're because Pittsburgh was loud.

I mean, that place when when Addy made the air and there was. You guys just wrote it and I couldn't even. I couldn't hear myself breathe there. Yeah, I mean, it was a lie. And he wrote.

They were nasty. Yes, there's Pennsylvania. That all black. The whole city was black. Yeah, right.

And he's tweeting before it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And he just goes out there. They try to hate him. Tony Watson.

Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, right. You're a little benching clear. Right. That's right.

That that too was another. That celebration. I think that was like two hours. Oh, my gosh. I remember them.

Yeah. The worst of that. I can put it like that. Yeah. Like the clubhouse is ruined.

That was epic. And then we beat the Cardinals who got gold standard. Oh, that's right. That was a big one. Right.

We had to take it from that seat. You have to take it from them. Yes. Take it from them. And we did.

Because they did. Be our ass. That's right. I said this stuff. The beginning of the year.

Yeah. The games we lost in St. Louis. We didn't know how to win yet. That's right. That's correct.

Because we were winning. And then they came back. And it was like these motherfuckers. Yeah, exactly. And then I take them all back.

I said.

“I remember the coaches, he's always come over to the weight room.”

Hey, what's on man? How are you doing? Cardinal coaches. Yeah. We started beating them.

They've never saw that. Never saw that. And that beautiful thing. They keep that. That's right.

Exactly. But I remember the game in Pittsburgh. My God. It was one of the more. We played some almost perfect games.

Like in 16 against the Dodgers. When the Quinter against the Dodgers. Yeah. That's like almost the perfect game. But the game in Pittsburgh.

That really did put us in a different stratosphere. Yeah. Absolutely. I remember how loud it got. We made one air in that basis.

Low to memory that. That's what I was saying. Yeah. That's what I was saying. That's what I was saying.

You were like. Oh, I. I was in stars. I was. I never.

I was my first time in the playoffs.

First game. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So in 2015.

We beat the Cardinals. Right. We're all into the match. I'm fully convinced. We're winning the world series.

Yeah. That's that's first time winning our chemistry. And we run into the boss saw of that gauntlet of a pitching step. We beat swept heartbreak. Did everything we could.

The magician. I think. Jack hammer. Just he was grossed. Yeah.

And Jack hammer. Oh, sure. But like we left that feeling. Like I was heartbroken. We coming to 16.

And it was like. We were already the world series champions. I felt that. I don't know if anyone else. I feel like everyone.

That was the way. It was the best camp I've ever had. All the skits. That my wife. Thank you.

Right. Um. But in the back of the day. That's a whole other show. Back of the band.

But it was just everything was like. So in flow. Guys were doing their job. We knew what it took. We were determined.

We were hungry. And we go into that season. We get off to this insane start. Right. What?

The third game.

Fourth game. Shorbor goes down. Yeah. Huge blow. Like devastating.

Because he was a dog. Yeah.

And he was one of our guys.

And as early as. Lackies first started.

“Diamondbacks put up what five or six rounds off on the first.”

And we just boat race them. Yeah. Exactly. And it was like we can't be beat. It was insane.

That start to that season. But that's where that's where it embraced the target. Yeah. Like, you know, you had to kind of marinate over that all off season. And there's so many things that came from that.

That I still. That are kind of in my soul as a as a baseball guy. It's like, you know, having the targeting backs a good thing. And, you know, just know we're not perfect. Right.

Like it's in and process. And the things that that built us as a championship team with the hunger of getting so close and losing the year before. The process is fearless. It was constantly reduced.

Like the things that you had on the embrace the target shirt and spring training.

But like all that's a culmination of the coach we talked about earlier.

Going into a team that had a lot of young guys been a lot of expectations. Yeah. That's that's kind of interesting man. Because that all happened. That started in the winter meetings after the 2015 season.

Might have been at San Diego. I'm not sure the winter meetings were at the time.

“However, you remember that the manager gaggle everybody gets in front of the manager.”

And they start firing questions. And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager.

And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager.

And then they start to get in front of the manager.

And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager.

“And then they start to get in front of the manager.”

And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager.

Then they start to get in front of the manager.

And then they start to get in front of the manager.

“And then they start to get in front of the manager.”

And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager. And then they start to get in front of the manager. And they start to get in front of the manager. And they start to get in front of the manager.

And they start to get in front of the manager. And they start to get in front of the manager. And they start to get in front of the manager. And they start to get in front of the manager.

And then they start to get in front of the manager.

“And then they start to get in front of the manager.”

And then they start to get in front of the manager.

And then if we get to that point, but sometimes the math doesn't work out. And that's exactly what happened. And that's because I did not want to take a roll the side of the game. But we had to do it at that point.

“And then you have to rely on the other dudes.”

But that was a big moment. And it's well as seeing a game for against the giants. To me, that was a little serious. How hard is it looking back now when you're in that moment? You know, the double switches in the national league were a mastermind of that.

Dude, it was so good. Or was it just because you love, I remember when you came over. I loved the national league. It's the better. It's much better.

Manage more. That's right. So, but you're in that moment. We're NLCS, we're 108 years. We win that series.

We're one of the world series. I've been there in what you've got 60 plus years. Making those decisions in the heat of the moment is not be easy. Well, it's not easy, but you think about them in advance. I mean, that's the whole thing.

I mean, I like I said, I knew he moved the main spots. And then, okay, I wasn't worried about it until I had to start worrying about it. And then you have to start playing it all the way out. And then it's like who's going to be the pinched or if in fact we're going to do that. So, that was the beauty of the national league game.

Everybody who posed that, I made a statement. Anybody that says, it's just like a double switch. But I mean, there's so many things that go on. I mean, there's times Davey really helped me out. Sometimes I would do some things that require a lot of movement.

Yeah. And I get lost sometimes. Davey and Davey would like help me out with putting it back together because when you start doing all the things like moving guys, pictures to the opium and back and things like that, it can get kind of good. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm glad they took that one. Sorry. Yeah. I'm glad they took that one.

I'm glad they took that one. I'm glad they took that one. I'm glad they took that one. I'm glad they took that one. I'm glad they took that one.

I'm glad they took that one. I felt like as a player we won the deadline. And I was doing 16. We tried for traffic. We went out and got the best relief around the market.

To solidify our radio.

Really deep back in. And it was like. Hold. And I felt the same way the only other time I felt that way was 2013. The Red Sox we won.

And they went out and got JPD at the time. It was the best starter. You know, when you're from office. Yeah. In plants.

We know what you need. And we're going to go get it for you. That's another part of. Like, do I think wedding organizations. That just goes on notice a lot of the times.

People play the long game in the same game. You don't have so often to go. It's all about the long game anymore, man. I don't even know. Everybody's got a four or five of your plan.

And nobody ever wins. I mean, I don't get it. I don't understand all that stuff. I mean, I understand what they're doing. But I don't understand why they do it.

Yeah. Theo made it. They made a great move on that. Yeah. We don't.

We don't do that without a roll.

“How much we rely on that mean, listen, I, you know, if you remember at that time, I think”

Strokey got hurt right at the end of that season. That one, no, that's that one he hurt his knee. He did hurt his knee something. Something. Something.

He did something right. So, and Strokey was out of the mix a little bit. He had to was like, not as good because he did a little bit impacted by Chapman being there. I thought we could. I thought that's a one thing that you look back on.

And, you know, we got chappy and then kind of some of our horses that had driven us that kind of sign language and from a manager's perspective. Like, I think I'd leaned a lot into veterans like say, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

But you really did a nice job of like Montgomery and C.J. Edwards and like Chris guys. Remember. Remember something like that? Remember that? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What, what is that when you see that is that that you're got that your, your eyes, your right eyes.

I think I'm from you. I think it's my eyeballs. And listen, I, I'm so grateful. Like I said, or I think I said it earlier, that it took me so long to become a major league manager.

I scout it for a long time.

And I still consider the most important thing I've ever done in order to become a

big league manager successfully would be to have been a scout. Because I think I could see Tom before Tom becomes talent sometimes. So Carl Edwards, I mean, my God. I mean, I love that boy. Yeah.

That was dating. And then, I mean, how about Montgomery?

“I mean, and I didn't realize it at the time.”

But of course, boys, you did the last side of the world series. Martinez was sitting like 110 against lieutenant curve balls. So he's just feeding Mickey curve ball curve ball. How about boys? He haven't been in.

Yeah. Like having that in. Oh, and all right, exactly. It's their 25th man on the cross. He hasn't had not seen one at that earning.

And we know that. That's what he did. That's what our, that's what I'm sorry. Guys were prepared. You saw my process in preparation.

Like everybody was on board doing their job at that moment. And so you have, you have that. I thought it was genius, too. Because Roger was going to steal my bag. I could leave it in.

Go. I couldn't. I was like, he's going. Right.

I for a very first picture.

I thought it was going. I think the lefty scared him. A little bit. You're right. Just hell.

You're a little bit. You're a little bit hard. So like probably something that you don't equate for. Actually helps out something. And well, you bring him in before that was like, well,

Roger's fixed the steel. You know, he's a second now. Basically it ties it up. CJ wasn't good at holding runners on either. No, no, no, no, no.

What was your process?

“Like, what are you telling your staff going into the world series?”

We're all this pressure. I don't know your current. It's real. Right. Yeah.

We did a great job at quieting it. But you're the lead bull. With your coach. Is it business as usual? Yes.

Don't change your thing. Don't change your thing. No more meetings. Don't get try to get smarter. Just do what we've been doing all year.

I think that's the trap. Teams are trying to get smarter. Add more information. We're scouting reports. More people in the clubhouse.

More data analyst coming downstairs. They're trying to help you out.

I ran it to it with the late 1990 angels, which we didn't never really got anywhere.

We get closer to the playoffs at the end of the year. And all of a sudden, everybody beat it. It's got to report to get bigger. Giving guys more information. More people around.

Oh, my God. It's like, are you kidding me? It's the exact opposite. It's less info. It's less people around.

It's. It's status quo as much as you possibly can. I didn't think. I didn't think VP one time was there. Because I didn't want to go out to the soap opera.

There you go. That's that's fine. DKB. Yeah. I think that's too.

We just stayed in. Guys, it all right. Yeah. But that's because of. Yeah.

You're back. You're more afraid. We had that level of confidence that we can do that. There's a lot of guys that feel like they have to know and do it. See, that's just that's the classic cover of my ass situation.

That is there's nothing to do with anything you know or believe. That's covering my butt. That's all that is. All this choreography before the games is also a cover my butt situation. I want this.

If somebody means X work. I'm there. I'll be the first guy out there. I want them. I want them out there.

But if you don't necessarily need early work or don't need it every day. An athlete that is both mentally and physically not tired is much better than.

Totally all this all these different work that you want to put out there that...

They don't realize people that really haven't done it. You can't hold that many thoughts. You can't hold that many thoughts. Too simple better. I right.

“I don't want you holding that many thoughts.”

I can't hold that many thoughts. Although I will say this in a voice of this. You could in a day to staff with as much until as you possibly want. But then it's up to the staff to give you the the nuggets that we think are necessary. It's like, what is he's, what is he's better than any analytical staff there is to prepare a game plan on any nightly based on for as he after every year.

Microsoft is catching break me down fully. What I wasn't because it's so hard as every day, play or realize where you're missing. When you're Freddy Freeman told me he was like, hey, we don't play either this year. I don't think we're going to see each other in the playoffs. And he goes, you're not swinging at first pitch break in most.

And I'm like, what? I didn't know that. I get traded. It's 2021. I get traded in the playoff side here.

First pitch break in ball from Evaldi. I'm aware of this now. Gomer in the wild card field.

The egg is information is powerful.

It's crazy. Sometimes you just don't know. And then of course, when you have people like you trust that tell you these things. But if you don't trust them and they tell you these things, you're like, yeah. Yeah, that's right.

Get out of here. It's useless at that point. Game seven. Should we start? Can you start?

Well, okay. You want to. I do want to start talking. Well, serious. Yeah.

How special was that? My God. Yeah. You went to inform with the race. I did with the race on the angels.

So we went with the angels in 2002. But I was the bench coach. Right. Managing the race. I was a manager.

And that was thing about it. That team. I think when 70 games year before. You know, 70.

“I think that one's maybe 60 and I don't even know.”

But then you go and you. We didn't win the division. We were the wild card team. But you end up playing the Phillies in the wild series. We beat the Red Sox.

Yeah. I was on that. Okay. You remember the ground ball? I mean, all.

We were up three to one and that and you guys came back. I was like three games. That was our eight. We talked about that. That's our answer.

First time we met. And we had the same age. Just go through my. Electrical tickets. That's the young buck.

Yeah. We have to take it. I was with the Red Sox. So I was happy day one game six. So we're there.

Yeah. And we are down three one. Yeah. And I was like now this ain't happened. Because last year we were down three of them.

And it was like our win was out of the sales. But this year we were last year we went in. And we were talking and all this stuff. And what we believed in the clubhouse. We knew if we just won game five.

Yeah. Right. Because that was a gauntlet of a game. Yeah. At really.

What was your take on? I had a pizza party that night. I got my kids around town. I bought pizza. I was living right off Lake Shore.

We had a big room down stairs. I don't know if I rent it. We just got it. All my kids were there. But my mom was there.

Peace of party. I really felt good. I felt our pitching was lined up properly for the games. Totally. I did.

I never lost faith. Absolutely not. That was Halloween. I wore a Halloween outfit on the bus. It was like a suit with a bunch of daggers.

We had a trick of treating you. Yeah. That's right. That's right. I wanted to try to keep it as normal as you possibly can.

That's always been my method.

When you when you when you stop being. Get it normal or outside your normal paths. That's what people's I tend to go up. So my main objective is always to keep it as real as you possibly can. But I never I never lost faith.

I never did. I I. Area and how I felt good. Sure. I felt good.

Lester game five. Yeah. I don't want my game five. Chapman came in. I think I'm like the set.

But there was no what else you do. Yeah. There's no game. There's no game. So that was the one thing.

“I think the only thing I ever questioned was leaving him in.”

To go out in the night and game six. He's right. I just hit the homer. That's right. And I remember the dog got like, can we get Travis Wood in like.

Yeah. And he went back out. I think he was trying to get people. He just got me. He got in for three pictures.

I would. And then he took him out. Yeah. I think that was the only time. Because.

Because I was a player. I would always.

I would always ask you questions.

Because I wanted to know. Like and I felt like I knew you perfectly. You're right. I mean, I was. I was torn on that one.

I had I already had talked to. I think. Baws about getting somebody else up in case. Something happening. Sort of bunch of runs.

It was in my head. Problem with me was that I've been burning Cleveland in the past. And that particular power. Yeah. I had been.

I mean, just with the angel. I think we were leading like. Nine to one or nine to two. Either the eighth and ninth inning with personally game. And lost the game.

So it's just stupid stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. It worked out. But there's no game.

There's no game seven. If you don't win games six, that kind of thing also. So it's I can't depend. My choice right there. It worked out fine.

But I knew. Watching Chappy throw to the first hit or get him out. Get him out.

He was like he was pissed.

He was pissed too. Yes. I thought he was. We were up. Yeah.

Six. Yeah. It was like. That should run home or step right. Right.

That was a separate. It's not about me.

“But the point was, I bought him in because Lendor was sitting.”

And we got out of a big situation with Lendor in that game. And again, if you don't win that, you don't play games seven. Well, and we, I talked about going back to the little bit that I got to manage. Like, you get burned from a game. You know, like, those games that some might come back.

It's like every still good. It sticks. It sticks. No doubt. It's easy to talk about times.

Yeah. Just manager was burned because of this or that. Like, they start telling stories about. Like, like, you think it. You can't take any for granted.

And then we're all serious. And I'm here. No, I want the guy out there throwing a hundred. Okay. How much were up?

I know that was that's the one thing I green. I've actually said that publicly. That's the one thing that I, I knew was wrong. I did it. And then, but we right rectified it because he needed to pitch the next.

They obviously. Yeah. Okay. And game seven. Do we do a shop before game seven?

The whole staff. I think we did. Yeah. We did. Yeah.

Do our shop. Right toast. Flask game with a season. Right. You told me.

Yeah. So you guys had a good conversation. Yeah. Great conversation. About what happened to your plan was.

Yeah.

“Like, you never really, I hadn't been in your office much all year.”

And, you know, you're always kind of down.

You keep things so close to the best as far as, like, really, what you're going to do in a game. And you tell me, hey, you're coming in with Johnny. I don't know when. The next day. And then we were going down to the bullpen and how crazy that was.

And then I came in early. Not knowing what's going on. We had a menu and boss had that conversation about how's he look. And I remember saying. Uh, I like he looks great.

But I don't know how me bullets. He's got it, right? Exactly. He was firing. I've never seen Joe.

So you said is it's as good as you seen him through a baseball. Something. Yeah. Yeah. He was.

Yeah. He was. Yeah. He just wanted to go in the game. Right.

But I should have. But no, that's what you told me. You told me how good he was. Yeah. And I trust that you trust your players.

Yeah. But then we talked earlier. Like, and you're just, you. You didn't go in your office with an idea and you not go. I love it.

You know, I never loved it.

Let's do it every time. Yeah. Yeah.

“I mean, Lester taking me out of the game.”

He told the story about you. You guys taking me out. Exactly. He just came in your office. I love it.

Let's do it. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. But I remember when you took Kyle out. I'd never. Kyle's stoic, right? Yeah.

Zen Master. Yeah. He had his glove in his mouth. I was fucking pitching around him because he. He pitched around.

Yeah. He just walked in to face kindness. Yeah. Because he kind of own. He thought he owned.

Okay. And we love to keep this match up. I remember talking about that. Yeah. Less towards the judge.

Yeah.

And I was the first time I ever heard a motion from Hendrix.

And now looking back with experience 10 years later. He was like, if Hendrix knew that you may have pulled him, he would have pitched to send him differently differently. differently. Because it was like, oh, if I don't get him out, then he starts maybe pitching a little

scare. Definitely. Right. So it's maybe in the moment. You're like, no, he should have pitched to keep this right.

But it's like all these things that pitchers. When pitchers get that 100 pitch mark now. Yeah. They're pitched differently. Because if I, if I don't get this guy, if they're going bad or bad.

So you look back on it with more wisdom. And it's like, thank God. He didn't know the whole thing that he was on a pitch. The whole thing was precipitated, not by kipness, but it was by Lendor. Because we talked about Johnny and not bringing Johnny to a dirty inning.

I did not consider Santana on first space only with two else as a dirty inning. I just did. Yeah. That was not my interpretation of that. But if kip the skits on and Santana's on that's two guys on with two else.

And that is dirty. And that I did not want to bring Johnny into that. So it's almost like I mentally, my hand was forced to do when I did. When I did it because I did not want to have Johnny on that out there with multiple runners. And I liked a lot.

The kipness Johnny relationship Johnny would end up. That was the second time I'm going up already. So you to sat down if he did not use him there to wind up the third time to bring him out in the game. Yeah. And it worked out if he would have made a good throw.

He almost killed. There was a swing and bought and the defense of guy. The may have shit down his leg a little bit. I mean, I'm not in there for my bat. And then we're Johnny.

But you had to be going with him. I did it way. It's not about me. It was a swinging bump. Yeah.

We had him out too. And I threw it away. And then Johnny knows. I remember the scouting port. I'm a boarsy.

No strike breaking ball. Still in dorm. So he shakes the breaking ball. Throwes like a 30 footer. He threw my mask.

I trip over my leg. You know, two runs go like. I was going to get the game. We was going to get the game. I was.

It was nuts. But so that's the people that understand that the move was made on.

The Dodd dirty inning.

If Colos didn't get out. Kipness. And now it is bad. But I do want to lefty on. Yeah.

Yeah. One of him right hand. So there's a lot going on right there. And Johnny up a third. That's the thing we talked about.

Yeah. He's farm bullets and been up twice. I probably can't get him back up. That's another thing. That's a really difficult jigsaw.

And believe me. I'm thinking all this stuff in that nanosecond. It's not like. It was all going on. Now we had already won that Montgomery earlier in the game a little bit.

“I think early on, because if you remember.”

Kyle was being hit around a little bit earlier before that. And some hard contact. But then again, if you bring Colin that particular situation. I mean, my. Montgomery Mikey.

The Mikey doesn't get the last out of the game. It's just like the world. The world. How it happened. Yeah.

It's just how the world played out. I'm not a revisionist historian. How it happened is how it happened. That was real. So we could do all the windows and a bow.

So whatever I'm about, it's exactly that stuff. - That's all by stuff. - I say this with all the respects, I can say whatever I want. - That's right.

- That's right. - That's correct. - That's correct. - That's correct. - That's correct.

- That's correct. - That's correct. - That's correct. - That's correct. - That's correct.

- How to pray to a billion people,

5 million plus people. - Right. - And there's articles being written saying, "Oh, should I did this?" - Get the fuck outta here.

- That's right. - Well, no, no, that's what's done all the time now. - Right. - I mean, that would have been like normal per standard procedure to get call out

in the fifth inning, seeing kittens with the third time. That would have been like, 'cause he had a-- - No one's even questioned. - Exactly, exactly.

- Going into that season, Kyle was like, third time through, got him hit a little bit harder. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But it was only based on, I'm telling you,

it's just done the fact that if kittens gets on, and I want Johnny on the door, that would have been the dirty inning I was not looking for. That was--

- So I was trying to get ahead of that moment. - Makes sense. - I kept this with Johnny was a really good matchup. And we got what we're looking for, it's just a tough play, that ball rolled out farther than you thought.

That's what I saw. - Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. - You kept going away from you. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Fucking, he's a, he's a brick.

- Well, I rushed the throne. I'm, my hammy grabbed me a little bit. (laughing) - I don't know, I just scratched a little more. - What about when Rajay hit stronger?

- Yeah. - What, what are you thinking? - I said to Davey, I said, who's up for his next inning?

That's the first thing he went straight into.

- Oh, man. - Man, it was up for Snicks any right. It was up for Snicks any. That's it, I mean, I thought that. And then the more difficult part was

to send out in the ninth inning. We sent out. - You said, Chappy. - The fact that Chappy got through the ninth. - Yeah, that's amazing.

- It's like, yeah. - It's honest.

“- How many times have you seen a closer blow it in the eighth?”

- Yeah, good. - I don't think making it's enough credit. - I agree with the break, I agree 100%. - Right. - Like, I look back on, I was called all heaters.

'Cause I hadn't catch Chappy that much. We would come in with Maggie or Contreras. And so I was like, you're catching scared. - Maybe. - Well, I knew, the scanners said no sliders.

And then I didn't know the splitting wasn't really a factor that year. - You're looking cool, right? - No problem. - So I just kept like, oh, it's 100, you'll pop it up

and I did, you just went further than that. - Wait, wait just to have done it to his back. - Yeah, yeah. - And I looked, I remember looking. He's she was choked on the back.

- Like, the length. - Like, the corona ball. - Exactly. - Yeah, I don't plug there. So Rajah hits the home run.

I'm at first saying this fucking curse is real. - Yeah. - Like, playing dirt on the numb. Full body numb. - Yeah.

- And you're going, - That's the first person that's next to anybody. - That is like, that's what I said. I stayed with that immediately. - That's the basic thing.

- I never, I moved, I turned a page a lot as a catcher.

That, I just meant, I kept going back to dang it. Like, the elite, like, you know, like it took me a minute just to turn a page on. It was like, you hit the home run. Rain delay, right?

- Right. - We're in there, Chappy. Just got traded. He's like, he's instantly, one of our brothers. - Yeah.

- He's in there with tears in his eyes. - Yeah. - Right. - He feels so bad. And it's like, how can you feel bad?

Do you've thrown 40 innings? - This is the case. - This is right there. - Right there. - And then comes out later with your story with your dad's hat.

- Yep. - And let's add a moment that just came out of nowhere for you. - Watch this for that. - It's twice have done that. And my dad was in the dugout for the 2002 in World Series

for the Angels also. Wow. - Wow. - My dad passed the 2002. - Wow.

- So he died in April 15, 2002. So we're the Angels in the World Series in 2002. I had his hat in my backpack, which I took in every ballpark. So I ran upstairs in that game against the Giants. And I bought it done.

And he's to have that little table set up and I'm stating in the corner there. And they put the hat underneath my books, looking out at the field. So he's been to two World Series victories.

So that time in Cleveland, I went up there and I said, "Screw, I put it in the back of my pants "and we were belted. "I stuffed it down in there." So I thought nobody would see it.

“And I think I had a jacket on it that time.”

So I figured it was not gonna be seen. So I put it down. - I was during the Randall Air, right? - Yeah. - When I was in the Randall Air.

- That's right. - It was amazing. - Was during that Randall Air. I mean, there's tears in the weight room with us.

- I don't go there.

I just wanted to see the weather map. How long is this gonna last? - Seven minutes. - Jed was there. Jed, where it was up there.

We're looking at the map. I can't remember exactly what I'd talk him about. But it's a real, it's one of those obviously horrible moments. But you guys did, you guys did great. I mean, after that meeting with Jason,

I walked out in the field and I said, "Damn." I mean, you guys look like-- - We were ghosts in the knife and a ghost. - Yeah, yeah. But you all looked like the game was just good

ready to begin. That's that. I mean, the energy was outstanding. Jorge was leading off, he walks behind me and he's like, "He's like, "It just guy does me a cut around and knock on."

Fuck, I don't know. You know, he was a shawl. And I'm like-- - He was like, "I really raised it in a state stuff." - And then I wore a--

- Yeah, the weight of baseball.

“- Yeah, remember we worked on that during the World Series?”

It was lost this year on a bad secondarily. - I tried. - And we won, arguably, the one's World Series because of a read that he-- - Stuff we had worked on.

- Standards, we did. - We worked on stuff, we worked on stuff. - We worked on stuff, we worked on stuff. - Don't tag, go that way. - That's right.

- And I think Hider was screaming from the-- - Just about the thing. - Really? - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - How did you celebrate when the whole thing was done? What went through your mind on that last album? - I was exhausted.

I mean, I thought, when you caught the ball, I thought 180, that was my first thought. I thought of my dad, of course, and then my family. But also, I get really happy for the coaches. Don't take that long because it's really important

for the coaches. You know, the salary they make compared to everybody to the coach. - So I'm all because that is a coach, so I'm really happy for the coaching staff,

that this is going to be really benefit their family.

“That's one of the first things I think about.”

And then, of course, I just watch you guys through the dog pile out there and it's fabulous. So it's really weird because it's such an exhausting moment. I mean, to get to that point, to get to the seventh game of the World Series after everything

that prep for spring training, spring trainings, regular sounds and playoffs on top of playoffs on top of playoffs, down games, three games to one come back, get in position and win and then actually win it.

Like you see, there's nothing to be critical of at that point.

It's just like, there's so many ebs and flows to that moment and everything, somehow it's the break your way at the right moment. It just has to, you know, the base, there's a good baseball luck under his bad baseball luck.

So maybe the good baseball luck and nobody talks about is the fact that they, they need to look at Cocoa Chris for defensive purposes for Martinez. Yeah, had they not then he's hitting in that particular spot

and much more formidable hit or the Martinez was. So see, when you start, you start, what if, what if, what if, that's, what if is life, yeah, that's life. And what if, what if such an iconic, you, this great Tito, that Tito is a major, this historic, yeah, all the same manager as well.

Like the Indians were 60 plus years or 180 years. The fans were just so into it. Everyone was so happy. Yeah, we win, the celebration is just absolutely epic. Right, yeah.

And it changes our lives. No, forever. So that, however, 10 years later, we're talking about, right, this reunion. We're just going to get even more prominent as we move it along.

The, the, the, the, the war, the, the, the, the the famous way is being told one years from now, three years from now is going to grow. Yeah, hopefully. Did you feel like it was harder looking back on,

certain expectations in 2015 of how you were changing the culture and the winning ways or managing the expectations in 16. I mean, it's, I mean, it's a year, it's a year, it's a year. Yeah, um, I think, you know, I just, the way you describe it, just, they go hand it hand, right?

“I mean, you have to set the expectations and then you have to manage them.”

I say, when it comes on to managing expectations, I'm more about setting them. You know, and I don't really necessarily word about managing them. I think that if you set it up right and you got the right group, and you know, you work your day properly,

they kind of, that kind of takes care of itself.

I think, I mean, I never, I never really think about that phrase

to manage my expectations, but I do think about setting them up. If it feels like I, there's a couple of times that we've talked that of like, you just stay in the process. I do. I'm pretty good in the moment.

I'm pretty good present tense guy. There's certain times I'll get, I'll get outside of that process. You're tired a little bit, you know, maybe something bad happening. You're just, your confidence might have taken a little bit of a hit. But for the most part, I may be able to get back there.

I don't know how much of it's can revisit. And all the training I did with Kenny, even as a coach. I mean, as a player though, when you put it back when I was 10, right, I'm calling him all in place when you're 10 years old, you know? So there's something to be said for that.

I mean, I actually call my own place when I was 10. And they stay true preels, how they stay true for Eagles, how they'll, I'm calling the place and I have audibles to call him. So what does that mean? When you're 10 years old, how does that play 15, 20, 30 years down?

I don't know, but I did. And I was a captain on almost every team that I played on, if I wasn't.

And so you always have this responsibility kind of a thing.

And you're both probably the same way. So how does that actually translate into being able to stay in the moment,

Accepting responsibility, the probably way to lead for me is not through inti...

but through a communication.

That's the appropriate way to lead.

“And I think my best news, and I've talked a talk about Bob Clear, my book.”

Bob Clear was like, guy with the angels. He was like the best baseball coach I've ever been around. And then Coach Bob Root, my backfield, my quarterback coach at Lopiot College. This man, God, I just, one of the best communicators to me. And if I came off the field, and I did the right thing or I called the right play,

and he validated it, my God, did I get puffy, you know, because I just respected him so much communication. Think about, think about in your time, not only with your, the Cubs, we'll talk about the Cubs in specific. How many lives you've touched, as far as fans, players, legacy.

There's things that you said that I said today about what I took with me as a player, that I used my whole life. And it was like, and I tell you this 10, 11 years later, and you remember these things. It's not the Ricky Bobby, I was high when I said that. Like, you, you genuinely remember, because in that moment of my life,

it was the biggest, like, aha moment for me to learn and took with me. And there's hundreds of players that you probably touched or along your journey, you know, which is just insane to think about, you know, when you live a life, what do you want to leave behind the legacy? And it's like, you're, you're pushing me back to my mind only days right now,

to absolutely, because I mean, starting out as a minorly coach in 1981, I was 27. Like, I had Dickie Skullfield and Devon White on my first team and Idaho Falls. It's an example. And I got, if I wrote down all the list of the guys, you're unbelievable, that I, that made the really good, majorly players.

And it is, it's, it's ominous to think that the one thing,

because you'd never think about that, I never think about that.

Ricky Lee Jones, songwriter singer, she wrote, you never know when you're making a memory. It's, you know, yeah, you just never know when you're making a memory, or whenever you're making an impact, because I, I've never, I never evaluate myself that way. I don't, I really appreciate what you guys are saying.

You've made an impact on the race for us. They can't, can't, can't, too. You don't bring, can't. Yeah, can't, yeah, can't, can't, can't, I'll say this quick. Can't have me do a drill in spring training, close my eyes, do my whole, pre-game batting, like from the on-deck circle to the box.

Yeah, he timed me. Yeah, he's like the elites get it within a second. I got it within a second. He's like, you'll be surprised how many guys go through their entire visualization process and get it within like a second of when they open their eyes. Okay. And I carry that with me forever. When I was in a rut,

“I would go through my process. I remember jumping on Aaron judges back one time, right?”

Yeah, six times. Do you do that? Absolutely. That was a long time about Ken and are you breathing mad? Are you breathing? That's right. And he would jump on my back. What if I was struggling? Hey, man, I got to go on your back here. You feel the weight of the world. Get off your shoulder there. And it's like these little things that just make the biggest impact in lives.

And you've certainly done that for me. You've certainly done that for me. No, no, no, no. So this is like, I was, I'm so happy.

Look, this has been amazing. You, you, obviously, impact a lot.

And we're so thankful for how you, if it hasn't, it hasn't been really fun for us. And we've got all year to celebrate this. Yeah. Any any advice you would give? Joe Madden from, you can be talking to a lot about my early days to now you're no longer managing and all the crazy impact you've had in between, like, what advice would you give to our baseball people that are listening or fans and some of the stuff that's helped you out the most that

we can, yeah, I mean, we need one more nugget from you. Yeah, I actually put it on a T-shirt once and I think the word comes out to authenticity. I mean, everybody wants to be like everybody else. So they, they're so, we have influencers everywhere right now. And of course, I had influencers too. No question. I'm much-sweet. I wore white shoes when I played football because they would ever wear a bigger face mask. But at the end of the day,

don't run away from who you are and what you believe in. And also know what you believe in too. I mean, it's not that you can't be,

“you can't make adaptations or be flexible. You have to be. But at the end of the day,”

just really know what you believe in and put it out there. I think too many times people will attempt to say what they think somebody wants to hear. We've already kind of covered this. But put out there what you, what you truly believe in. And I think the respect you get in me turn for that is greater than it. Because even if the person you're speaking with doesn't agree with what you're saying, they'll probably listen to that and take it to hard. And maybe you're

going to make an impact in that authentic way. Because if you choose to not really be who you are or authentic, it's really difficult to copy or put that fake thing out there in a daily basis,

Which a lot of people use their guys to pick up onto.

So I just think the word authenticity. You'd never run away from it. And an authenticity cannot

“be manufactured. It's got to be organic. Yeah. Thank you.”

>> Um, buddy. >> Obelice.

>> Obelice. >> Um. >> Thank you guys. That is a wrap.

“>> We're gonna take this break. >> We're gonna take this break.”

>> We're gonna go down guys. You guys thank you. >> Good buddy.

>> That's so knock it all over this buddy. >> That's so tough.

“>> I mean, I look excited to know if you break. >> Great story.”

>> You guys did a great job.

Transcript

[MUSIC]

With us.

I'm not into extremes.

Sure.

I say, hobby, right, center counts.

There's no weather agenda.

St.

Or T.

Maybe he had just --

They would sugarcoat some things after not to eat.

You know, like, that's how I get this person on to win.

The third game.

Then they start to get in front of the manager.

To solidify our radio.

Totally all this all these different work that you want to put out there that...

He was like he was pissed.

The Dodd dirty inning.

- I don't go there.

Accepting responsibility, the probably way to lead for me is not through inti...

Which a lot of people use their guys to pick up onto.

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