Shawn Ryan and Charlie Sheen - Megyn Kelly's "Double Feature" of Fascinating Interviews

the least.

“Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly, welcome to the Megan Kelly show and today's double”

features Sunday mega episode. Today we're bringing you the very first conversation I

ever had with two fascinating people with whom I've developed friendships since these interactions are about to listen to. The first is Sean Ryan when Sean flew into our studio two years ago. I didn't know what to expect. But the two-hour conversation we had blew me away. I just love this guy. I'm professionally speaking. I just adore him. He was so open and honest in ways

that many aren't and his life story from the Navy SEALs to crime committing. As you put it, to finding God and redemption started our beautiful journey together. I recently saw Sean as you may have seen when I took a trip down to his studio in Nashville last month, which involved three and a half hours of conversation and a lot of shooting guns which was super fun. You can go check

that out on his feet and enjoy but you'll listen to our first meeting today

which was very very deep and insightful on his part. Then there's Charlie Sheen Charlie came in last year for an interview about his life and career and it became very clear why he was for a time the biggest star in Hollywood. Since this interview we got a chance to meet in person during the MK Live tour last year and he delighted our entire in in auditorium audience and beyond and I would

imagine that our conversations will continue in the future. Certainly hope so.

“Enjoy and we'll see you Monday. On Memorial Day we remember an honor the”

men and women who have died while in military service. Every year we welcome a military veteran here on this show to share their story and today I'm very excited to talk to Sean Ryan for the very first time. Sean's a former U.S. Navy SEAL and CIA contractor with 14 years of service spanning multiple combat operations. He is also the host of the hugely popular

the Sean Ryan show where he has an audience of millions on YouTube podcast platforms and more. This is where he goes in depth and I mean in depth with a host of guests for fascinating conversations on a whole range of subjects. Sean developed the show to document the untold stories of war, loss and redemption and he does that in much, much more.

Glad to welcome him here in person for this special episode Sean welcome. Thank you forever me. Thank you for your service to get a kick it off. Oh thank you for saying that. Yeah I appreciate it too. It's it's it's hard I'm a moral day because it's it's a solemn day right but people are out there trying to get their big TV and I understand that right people are like they work hard

and they but you got to take a moment or an hour or two just to stop and think about why you have the freedom shop where you want and where would you want and say what you want and do what you want and that boils down to you guys and the friends you've lost. Well thank you. So let's talk about you and your background and how you wound up a Navy SEAL

because it takes a certain kind of person. I know this from my many interviews

“of SEALs over the years. It's not like you're not normal people. I think”

that's fair to say am I wrong? I think that's fair to say. Okay and so when

tell us what you were like as a child because there are always some signs of a

future Navy SEAL in there whether it's a rebellious kid or a leader or obsessive about something. I jock out said his parents wouldn't let him quit anything like if you took up knitting they wouldn't let him quit knitting. So looking back at your own childhood where there's signs of the future you there. They're probably where I was definitely very rebellious not a great student not a great listener

very creative and and just not very academic at all. So so the teams, the SEAL teams were kind of came on my radar. I don't remember exactly but I was always enfatuated with the military. I was when I was growing up the Gulf War was going on and and I remember picking up all the magazines and all that stuff and just and just looking at all the pictures really into GI Joe's and it got

to the point where when I got to high school I just like I said I wasn't an academics guide and I didn't I wasn't interested in school and I definitely wasn't gonna do well in college. So I decided to look into the military. Alternatives. Did you come from the military family? Not exactly. I mean my dad did serve. He was a pharmacist in the army. So definitely totally different

all. So so I started looking at the Bering Corps. I wanted to be a Recon guy. They wouldn't let me in. I went to the army. I wanted to be a Green Buray with let me in and the Navy recruiter kind of stuck his head out and asked to fight ever heard of the SEAL teams and I hadn't at the time. So he gave me, you know, endless material to pick through and so I did that very fast and

and when I realized what it was, it just captivated me. So how does a guy who's not, you know, devoted to his academics, which does require the kind of tenacity and hard work you put in to become a SEAL, find it in order to go through buds training and actually perform that elite level as soldier. I mean

“I don't it's just the only thing that caught my interest, you know, and so”

nothing really in school caught my interest. And I didn't. I never really felt

challenged. I don't think. And so that'd be, there was a multitude of things that I, I wasn't the top performer out of my three siblings and sports or an academics. Where were you in the birth order? I'm first. And where'd you grab? I grew up. We moved around a lot of primarily Missouri. Okay, keep going. And first. Yeah, yeah, firstborn. And so I got in there and I mean, long, long

story short, people would dive in, but I just wanted to do something. One, I wanted to serve my country and I wanted to finally give my parents a reason to be proud of me. And so that kind of carried me through. And were they? When you

signed up, at first, were they, what year would that event? That would have been

2000, 2000. No wait. When I signed up, it was 2001. Okay, right, it was before 9/11. It was right before 9/11. I went to the Navy, to boot camp in July of 2001. Oh my gosh, little did you know, it was about to happen to the country, the world, and you. Yeah. So were you parents proud when you signed up or they? I think they were, they were definitely worried. It surprised them. Kind of

came out of left field. And so, but, but once I wrapped their head around it and saw that I was, I seemed to be serious. They, they, they fully supported it. See,

“that's how I feel. I would love for, I'll be sexist, my boys to serve, but I'd”

be terrified. If they actually said they were going to do it, I'd be in church every day, praying to God, lighting every candle in the church. You know, I, I can see what your parents, whether and I'm sure most parents go through that, especially if it's not a lifelong military family. Yeah. Yeah. I would do. I have two little ones now. So, yeah. I get it. And, you know, especially if you're looking at your kids so

far as Ben kind of a knucklehead. I don't think this kids should have a gun. I don't have a gun. I'm not sure. This is going to go. Very true. So, there had to be some concerns there. And, what just had a curiosity, what did your siblings wind up doing? My brother is in hospitality and my sister has her hair salon. Okay. So, they did not, they were not tempted to follow you down this road. No. All right. So, you decide to join up for

military service and not just any military service, not just like, I don't know, the regular infantry with the army. You decide to go for Navy SEALs. So, inside there's an overachiever just waiting to be born. And, did you know anything about how hard that was going to be? I did once I started researching that, I just, I didn't care. I was just, I was going to do it. And, I felt great all the way up until I arrived at San Francisco

running. And, and, and I'm fine. I was amazing right up until I started. Exactly. And, I mean,

when I got there, it was 18. And, you know, barely a man. And, when I got there, there were guys that there were Olympic athletes. There were guys that had already been to war and come back. Guys that have been to Panama. Guys that have been to Iraq. It was, it was a championship boxers. And, and I was probably about a buck, buck 30. Wow. And, what? So, no, is this why I read you got, you got laughed out of the one of the recruiting

offices. Yeah, that would be, that would be the army of the Marines. Yeah, okay, the Marine Court told you, no. Yeah. This is a common story. I've heard this from a few of our Navy SEAL buds that they got, they got laughed out when they tried to sign up. What is it with

“me, Army? Are the Marines just like, I think, I mean, it's just, you know, it's pretty”

ambitious to walk in and say, "Hey, I want to operate at the top level right away."

go the long route." And, I just, I had no interest in going the long route. I didn't want to do regular infantry. There's nothing wrong with that. But, I just wanted, I wanted

the challenge. Do you remember back in those early days when you're first starting to

train what jumped out at you amongst the guys who surrounded you? Like, were there commonalities in this pocket of the world that were immediately noticeable as different? Once I got

“to buds, or you wouldn't just first sign up and start a training because you need to go”

right to buds training, right? Don't you do normal training before? You do normal training before? I mean, I grew up in a town of 6,000 people, so there wasn't, there wasn't that many people that wanted, they wanted to do this. I remember the first time I met, they called him a steel motivator. He was kind of a guy that would go around, I don't know, the country

who was a seal. And then now he's teaching out a swim and refining some of your techniques

with running and swimming and some things that you might expect. He just carried himself different than anybody else I'd been around before. So, there's definitely a type. Now, knowing what you know, is that, does that come from combat or just the grueling nature of seal training? Like, guys, we're going through it today. Can they get that without

“actually going into combat? Like, you have? Oh, I think so. I mean, I, I do believe that.”

So the, the Navy will get it into you. They will figure out a way. I, I'm thrilled and impressed and want to do it. No, a secret version of myself would love to try this. I don't think I can. I can't really even make it through 10 minutes of jumping jacks in my hit class, but in my mind, this could happen for me someday. And we've had lots of tough guys come on here and talk about how the toughest guys they knew didn't make it through training. Just

couldn't make it through. It's just a mind of a matter kind of situation, but you're telling me, you didn't have anything in your past that told you, you could, you could put mind over matter and accomplish this. No, I didn't. I didn't. And so it was, I mean, I was an 18-year-old kid at Buds and I, it was, it was, I mean, it's scary to see who quits, you know, I mean, you're seeing people that you look up to, people that, I mean, you're constantly measuring up to somebody else

and comparing yourself to somebody else and going, oh, you know, if that guy, if that guy didn't make it, I don't, I don't think I have a chance. And so you just put your head down and drive on and try to make it to the next meal, try to make it to the next day and, and, uh, and just keep driving on and, and, and it, you know, get to the point where I did, I wanted to quit, but, um, but I, I could not, I could not face calling my parents and tell them that I, I had failed again. Oh, wow.

So, yeah, I've had guys say that there's no way I was going to see my father's name on that hat and ring that bell. Oh, not me. Hmm. So, you, you talked a little bit about your upbringing. Was it a modest upbringing? Like, what kind of childhood did you have? Yeah, I mean, I would say upper middle class, uh, upbringing and small town moved around a lot, probably moved over 10 times,

in my childhood, but we finally settled in Missouri in a small farm town known as Chilakothi,

Missouri, and, uh, had been back there in several years, but, but I was, I liked full contact sports, tried football, was too small, could make it got into wrestling, was a mediocre wrestler, nothing, nothing, uh, no stage championships or anything like that. Just kind of an average kid, troublemaker, really into booze and partying and, uh, and, uh, yeah, I mean, that was, that was my childhood. Did you have strict parents? They tried to be strict,

but, uh, I was like, I just find ways around it. I would, uh, that was the future CAA contractor.

“That's the foundation was being laid. A little bit of that they know. This is important research for you.”

Yeah, good point, good point, but, um, yeah, I mean, they were definitely against a lot of the things that I was doing. I was, they were not happy that I was drinking. They were not happy with some of the crowd that I was running around with. They were not happy with my grades. And, um, and, uh, yeah, you know, what if, like I said, when it came time to make, make some decisions,

round. Mm-hmm. Um, I was just talking about Riley Gaines not long ago. She was talking about how,

you know, she's this competitive swimmer. And now she's an activist on the trans insanity this happening to women. And, um, she was talking about her dad put her in the pool one time and just made her be in that pool for some eight to ten minutes freezing cold. It was not a summer pool. It pulled off the cover during the winter, made her get in. And it was an exercise and mental toughness, you know, just to, like, you're not cold. You got to get, that's you guys,

you do, you do that every day during seal training. When you're a seal, it's hard. And it is

somewhat torturous from what I've heard. So when you finally see yourself in those situations,

how do you, how do you say, I'm not quitting? How do you get through? How do you get from minute 10 to minute 11 to minute 12? I mean, you just have to dig deep. I mean, it's not, it's not, it is very physical, but it's more mental. And so everybody, everybody in training is going to break. They're just, it's going to happen. And it just, you get to this point where you go numb, you get to this point where you go numb and, and then it just doesn't matter any more

nobody, nobody really quits after. I think Wednesday night is the day where it's very, very rare for anybody to quit, but it's just, it's breaking time down and, and instead of going, I'm going to make it through this entire six months, it's, I'm going to make it to hell week. And then when you get to hell week, it's, I'm just going to make it to the next meal or I'm going to make it to

“the next med check and, and by Wednesday night, I mean, you, you haven't slept. Remember when it starts?”

It starts, I think it starts on Sunday night and I believe it's done Friday night. Okay. It's five days. With minimal sleep, but, but your muscles break down, you get, um, what do they call it? Elephantitis, your, your ankle starts swallowing up here. Oh, I had that when I was pregnant. Oh, right. No, I mean, it just happens naturally. Everything swells up. Yeah. But, um, but, uh, it's, it's just, it's, it's, it's doing those little time hacks and just breaking it down and making it to the next meal,

making it to the next med check. Checking your buddies by Wednesday, you know, it's a pretty tight group. Everybody's pretty much gone. And, and you kind of just go into, maybe this flow state, you know, and you're just, you're just moving. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it sounds kind of transcendent in a way.

“So then you have to actually be a Navy SEAL, which is no easier. And especially when you complete”

your training in July of 2001, all hell breaks loose in the country and the world. And how many combat deployments did you have? What the SEAL teams I had to combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Yep. Okay. And two different SEAL teams? Yeah. So there was, so when I got into the SEAL teams, it was around 2003 and the first deployment we went to Germany, which was a really boring deployment. And then we went to Afghanistan, uh, in the, what, it laid summer of 05, I believe.

Mm-hmm. And how long were you there? We were only there for three months. So it was, it was bright after red wings happen. Are you familiar with red wings? The long survivor.

Oh, yeah. Of course. Yes. I've had Marcoson. He's amazing. Yeah. So we relieved them after that

happened. That was the biggest SEAL team, the biggest loss in SEAL team history at the time. And, uh, it was the SEAL column was doing this surge where they want, they needed more guys. And so they split up the deployment cycle. And that's, so I went from SEAL team, made to SEAL team to, uh, my Afghanistan deployment was SEAL team too. We, we didn't do a whole lot there. There was a lot of, there was a lot of political stuff going on after that operation.

And, uh, to be 100% honest, I was really dissatisfied. I went to the teams to go to war and to

“fight for the country. And I, I wasn't getting enough. I think we did one direct action, uh,”

that entire deployment took a couple of prisoners, uh, no shots fired. And then, and then we got our admiral pulled us out of the country. And so at that point, I kind of made a decision. For me, this, this wasn't what I had expected. And so I told, uh, my leadership, I said, hey, this is going to be my last pump. I'm not doing another one. I'd like to finish by listening

sniper operations. And so I volunteered to go there. And they, they're my name in the hand. And I, I got lucky and went. Volunteer to go to Baghdad. Yeah. In 2000. That would have been 2000s, late '05 or my last six. I mean, the worst absolute time to be in Baghdad for anybody, you know, yeah, who's not ready to fight and kill and risk their life. I mean, that was just a

“devastating time. I remember just as a journalist covering those years. And that's one of the”

heading started. Yeah. It was bad. It was about as bad as it could be. I mean, it's amazing.

Again, it being Memorial Day. I have to think about guys like you who volunteer to go into it. The guys who volunteered to go into the buildings on 9/11 at great risk to themselves. And then their brothers and arms in a way who volunteered to go into the fire in a different way a couple years after that. We all have a lot to be thankful for. So how long were you there? I was in Baghdad for about four months. And so we got there. The operational tempo was pretty slow first. There was an

election going on if I remember. And then we we were on the hook to do like protection for the Iraqi government officials. And nothing was happening. So we wound up the lieutenant through our name in the hat to just help conventionally units who were getting blown up on their reconnaissance routes, supply routes, whatever the routes were. I mean, there was they had these bombs

“called EFPs over there, which were, I don't know if you remember, maybe you covered this. But they”

basically put them on the side of the road and they could be triggered by IR laser. So they would

pick up heat sensitivity to engine blocks. And they had they had the timing down perfectly to where the projectile will go through the passenger or driver side door of the humbese. And basically it would vaporize everything in the vehicle. And you just get sucked out of a little hole on the back end. And so that was that was true and a lot of our guys up. And we just got tired of seeing these conventional guys just get crushed by these EFPs. And so so we started attaching ourselves

to these conventional units that didn't have the knowledge or know how on how to kind of combat

this set up a targeting package to get these guys. And so what we would do is we would get

in with them and be able to train them for a couple of weeks, bring them out, teach them how to set up sniper hides, teach them how to do a targeting package, teach them how to conduct surveillance, teach them how to start running assets within the local population to try to figure out who's doing this. And teach them how to shoot, taught them everything, gave them a lot of stuff. We really kind of like took these guys under our wings. And then we would take them out on operations. And

so we will go out, find all the places they were getting hit and set up sniper teams, along all of those different routes, all those points of interest. And we would take each sniper observation team would take maybe one or two conventional guys with them on the actual operation.

“And we started killing bad guys. Hmm, certain things the other way. You must have lost a lot of”

friends. Every guy who serves does and you're one of the lucky ones if nothing happens to you to take a limb or a traumatic brain injury. As you're going through it, there's no time to deal with any of that, right? It's just forward like we talked about in the training just forward. There's no time to think about that stuff. But you're in active combat situations and Iraq and Afghanistan and eventually that stops, right? And is it at that point that you have to deal with that or is

it later? Because I know then comes the CIA Stint. It's a gradual, it just comes on gradual. And I mean, there's a lot of coping mechanisms that we use. And that numbs it out, booze, pills, sleeping pills, whatever you can kind of do to numb it out. And the early days, nobody knew any better, that kind of all came crashing down later on for a lot of guys. And that's what we cover on

career at the agency. Well, that's the thing. If when you have massive crises, especially repeated

“and ongoing sustained crises, there's only one way, like you have to compartmentalize how”

could you possibly function if you were dealing with any of it. You're not, you actually are human despite all appearances of our seals and our rangers and all those guys. So was it right after

your service interact that you decided to join the agency? No, honestly, I didn't want to, I never

wanted to go back. And I wanted to pursue some type of a career in business. And so I tried to a lot of things, a civilian life. I just, I wasn't ready for it yet. And I decided that I'd missed the brotherhood, the camaraderie, the obnoxiousness of being on a team. And so I decided I would try to get into a fire academy. And, and I did, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't. What do you mean fire academy? It's a firefighter. Firefighter, okay. I wanted to be, I just thought, well, that

seems like the next best thing to what I was a part of. And, it just wasn't going to work for me,

a lot of family ties, help, and the fire service. And I had none. So I had a friend, and

there was an Afghanistan with me, another seal. And he said, hey, I'm working for black water.

“And I think you should come work with us. And I'd seen a lot of the black water contractors and”

heard a lot of the stuff that was going on over there at the time. Some of it was true. Some of it wound up not being true. But I decided, while I was over there and I saw how those guys operated, I just, I did want to be a part of the contracting career. And especially a black water. And so I'd express that to him. And he said, this is different. This is a different project. The qualifications all have to be at least six years in special operations or above. Then there's a

month long try out. I can't tell you who I'm working for. But I think you would really shoot him well here. And it's it's it's it's not what you're thinking. It's very high caliber. Operators

“work in here. So so I threw my name in the hat and took about six months to get a call back.”

And then I did. And it was just a email that said, hey, be here at this time, bring this year with you. And it was a bedding course. So there was four black water. So I don't know how familiar with black water, but black water is a massive organization. And they have so under black water, they have all these different contracts. They have the department of state contract. They have the DA contract. They have probably all kinds of government contracts. And then the very back of the compound,

which black water compound was, I don't know how many thousands of acres is the black the black sites. And so you go back there. They don't tell you anything. And you're with with a group of guys. And you start off with a PT test. And then you do some shooting qualifications. They don't really tell you what the standards are. They're just it's just just here's the time. Do your best. And or sometimes when did they want to even give it the time? Just hit that target as

many times as you can. And as fast as possible. And so you do that. And it's you know, it's really, it's you don't know the standard. And that's the biggest stressor is there's nobody. It's not like that. What's failing? Yeah, you don't you have no idea. And you don't even know if you passed at the end of the day or not. And so it's just, I mean, you know you passed if you're showing up the next day to work to try out. And so we had made it through the shooting

qualifications. And then you go through a lot of kind of situational stuff. They'll put you in these in these situations. They want to just see how you react, how you can lead a team, how you can integrate

him with a team, all kinds of different scenarios scenarios that you're never going to fight your way

out of lots of civilians. They would plant lots of like role players with simulation rounds, which is basically kind of like a paintball gun, but more realistic. And they will put you in all these

was a protection type gig as well. So a lot of times they would have like some type of an asset

“that you have to go in and it's extract. And I made it through that. And then at the very end,”

there was also driving surveillance, all kinds of stuff that they wanted to just kind of see how you were in all these different scenarios. And at the end, they gave you the brief and say, hey, you know, this is the OGA, other government agencies, CIA contract. And let's just start

looking for dates to go overseas. But you don't know for what? No, you never know. You just know that

you've been selected as this elite kind of service member. And whatever it is, it's going to be very high level and complicated and complex, right? So you're in, but you don't know what you're in for. Yeah. Well, that's disconcerting. Just listening to yours. You are cool. You are calm. Like that, that probably really helped you. I mean, I was just thinking, who do I know who's kind of more on the hysterical end? I don't know her, but she only went who came to mind. Somebody like a

Bethany Frankel. The former real housewife. I know that's a bizarre compare. But I mean, she's tightly wound shot. She's like, oh, it's like everything's up here, right? And you're just the opposite. I just kind of a cool cat, like a little blood pressure kind of got. Well, I mean, when you're in a job like that, and I'm sure you can relate being on TV and with the career that you've had, but I mean, it's so, it gets to be so high stress every day. You're being judged. You're being

graded. It's, do you have what it takes to be a part of this team, you know, from from seal training through the through the teams, the six years. I was there to say I a or blackwater training for the

“subcontractor of C.A. contractor. I mean, it's just you have to get to the point where you can, you know,”

blow that stuff off. And that, that came to me in the teams. It, it, I was constantly just who it was just stress all the time. Do I deserve to be here or might get kicked out this week? You know, what does my team think of me? I'm a new guy. And you have to, and that stuff can hinder your performance. And so, you know, the most, the most stressful thing you can do, at least for me is an operator is when you're doing the kill house, which is, which is entering

buildings, saving hostages, killing bad guys, all in your face, clearing houses basically.

And we're talking about real life now or the training. We're talking about training and real life. Okay. But, but primarily, I guess primarily training. And it, it, it gets to the point where if you let the stuff get to you, every, every house, we call my house from where you, you go through the doors, maybe blow the doors, maybe you're climbing in a window, maybe you're coming in from the rooftop, doesn't matter. But once you enter that house and training, every, every move you

make is critiqued. And it can make it seem like, and purposely, that, that they're picking on you, that you're not any good, that, that they don't want you there. And you just have to get to the point where you can't let that stuff affect you. It just got to the point in the teams where I, I, I hid my, hid this mental switch where I, I don't care anymore. I, I had, like, tricked myself into thinking, I don't care how this run, this house run ends. I don't care what these guys

think of me. I'm just going to do the best I can do. And that's, that's all I can do. Do you know that the free solo movie and that the story about that mountain climber who refused to use any lines and supports and he wound up dying? No. But they talk about these guys who climb these mountains and they're, they're nuts. They do it with no support. You know, there's, there's nothing to, you know, in the lot of them do die. But they identify with a lot of these guys

that they've lost their ability to get an adrenaline search. And that's actually one of the reasons why they do it the way they do it without all the belts and suspenders. Can you relate to that at all? Oh, yeah. Do you, do you do adrenaline? Yeah. And then maybe crossing over to, it's gone.

“Like, where is it? How can I get it again? Yeah. You find it through, I mean, that's why so many”

guys honestly went back up in the, in the contracting arena is especially like these guys, you know, that it's been 30 plus years. It, the seal teams or a SF team or Delta or wherever, Rangers,

Marsak, you can, you, it, it, it's never enough. I mean, it's like, it's like a heroin addiction,

that even on your off time, you know, you're looking for it. Mm-hmm. It's not, you can't take six

months and not feel that. It is, it's the painful of your existence at the time. I can't imagine, you know, just the other night, I was at a dinner party at a friend's house in Connecticut and it was absolutely lovely. The post just knew all the right things to do. We had a lovely cocktail hour, we sat down for dinner. There was even some dancing after the fact, which was a successful cocktail party. It didn't party by any measure. I can't imagine a Sean Ryan

having lived the life you've lived, right? Come and back from all of that and even participating as such. I mean, I just feel like your whole life must must have been, you know, when this was done, like, what is this? Who are these people? What is this? This is just absolute dribble around me everywhere, none of this matters. Did you go through that? Oh yeah, it created a lot of anxiety, a lot of anxiety. I really bad social anxiety when I left the agency. And I just,

I mean, you are thrown into a world that you thought you knew and it's just it's hard. I mean, it's really hard to relate to anybody who has not lived the kind of life that you've lived. It takes a long time, you know, and it takes a lot of, it takes a lot of self work. It's like you are Mars for 14 years. Pretty much. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Right. And you come back and Earth has changed a lot. Now there's an internet, GPS, and iPhones and social media. So it's like the

dramatic changes. And a lot of different opinions on what we're doing over there. So can you help me understand? Because we talked about leaving seal the seals and going to blackwater. And then but that, and that do you count that as CIA time? I don't totally understand. Yes, so, so, so I

“spent a very brief time at blackwater as well. So I did two deployments, I think, with blackwater.”

And, um, but you're under. So basically, if you're going to get your house worked on, right?

You're going to use a general contractor. And then he's going to subcontract out the plumbing, the drywall, the air conditioning. So think of like, think of blackwater as the general contractor for the U.S. government. And so then department of state is says, hey, we need 500 guys to in Baghdad to protect all of our state diplomats. Okay. So blackwater goes and they, what do you, what kind of guys do you want? What do you want to pay? You know, what qualifications

are you looking for? And then they go find those type of people, train them up, put them through eventing course, and then here's your 500 guys. And so, CIA does the same thing. It's hey, we need, we have this very particular set of skills we'll look in for. This is the job description. You

guys, you blackwater, go find these guys for us. So we're basically subcontractors for the agency.

Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. Why, I don't understand blackwater that well, but why would they, not just go tap the seals or, you know, the green braise or why would they go to blackwater for any of this? That's a great question. I wish I could answer that. And they do, they do go direct. And so later on in my career after blackwater, I wanted to be, I had taken a break from blackwater, then I went to a company called Sock, did a couple of deployments with them, got kind of tired

“of the agency's stuff for a little bit, so then I jumped on an anti-piracy gig back. Do you remember”

the Maris Galabama? Yeah. So after that happened, all these contracts spun up, and it was, all right, we need, we need seals on ships to kill pirates that are trying to, you know, kidnap the crew and take over the ship, but just another day at work. Yeah. And ransom. No, that's like Rob O'Neill. I told him he's like the Waldo of servicemen. Is everywhere. Yeah. I mean, movie this ever made. Rob O'Neill had a role. He's been on all of the ops, right? But, um,

yeah. But, uh, so I did that for two deployments, and then, and then, uh, the agency got back in touch with me, and then they, they wanted me to come work direct for them, uh, as a contractor, but not through any companies. Okay. And so. And now you're actually earning some money. Yeah. So that's good. Yeah. I mean, more or so than you ever got paid by the, by the Navy.

“Yeah. Way more than I got paid for by the Navy. But can you get rich doing that, or not really?”

I mean, I guess it depends on how you invest your money. I mean, at that time, a good rate was about

would be about 550 a day. And so, um, yeah. I mean, it depends on how much you want to deploy.

“Where are you sitting in between deployments? Are you back here? Like, going to the movies and”

Starbucks? I spent a lot of time. Well, I mean, it was 14 agency was about a little shy nine years, and so I would, man, I would go all over, but, uh, towards the end, I started going to Colombia, South America. Oh, this is not a good period in your life. You don't about this. Nothing good happens in Colombia. No, nothing good does happen in Colombia. No, I do know a little bit about your troubles. And that was a rough period for you. Explain why and why Colombia.

Well, um, originally I went to Colombia because when I joined the seal teams, I had always wanted

to go to team four because I wanted to do the counter drug ops. Well, then, you know, 9/11 kicked off, obviously, and uh, that wasn't a focus at all. And so, um, when I was in the agency, I had broken up with, uh, with a girl friend, and so I decided I wanted to travel and I had always, I was just in fact, I mean, those were all the documentaries I was watching when I went to the recruiter.

“It was, that was the only thing going on at the time was Panama and kind of the, the counter”

drug situation down in South America, which a lot of that was in Colombia. Since documented in

shows like Narcos. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and so I decided I wanted to go check it out down there.

And, um, so I, I mean, that's crazy talk. Just, uh, just like as a pin in this, that's crazy talk. Nobody looks at a show like Narcos or Panama and says, "Yes, I want to go there." Yeah. You, all normal people, like, "Think, god, that's down there." Yeah. Well, I mean, I went, it was for a number. I wanted to see, I just, I wanted to be in a jungle environment. And, uh, so I want to check it out. Had a, a great time. And, uh, and so

“I kept, I just kept going back, kept going back, kept going back all the way past my time at the agency.”

But, uh, then it turned into, we just kind of spoken about addiction to adrenaline. And so I was going down there doing a lot of stuff that I shouldn't be doing, cocaine. And, and, and then once I left, uh, the agency, I kind of started building a network down there. And, um, it just, it was exciting to me. I was in, uh, overseas building my own network, kind of felt like I was kind of running my own operations. Well, kind of operations. Uh, drug networks. And so I wanted

to see how deep into the kind of narcos network I could get myself. And, but this was not for crime fighting. No, this was for crime committee. Pretty much. Yeah. And, um, so I kind of started at street level and built a network out and went to clubs and met people and, and, and, and found my guys and started testing cocaine and finding the best stuff and, and, and I found it. And, um, and that lasted for for a couple of years. And I would bound, I would just bounce,

I mean, it was really, I got a lot of satisfaction out of the adrenaline and seeing, and just seeing how much I could have been my, and bed myself into these different cultures. And so then I started flying all over the, all over South America. I started going to Peru and starting a building network there and Dominican Republic and Panama all over Colombia, all over the country. And, uh, Costa Rica. And then I started looking up the most dangerous places.

You could go in the world and at the time it was San Pedro, Sula, Honduras. So I went there and started, uh, I didn't get very far there, but, um, but, um, that was, that was my life for several years. Wow. And the, the part was cocaine and you would find what, like, would be dealers people to distribute it. I would find dealers and then I would find their dealers and then I would find where their dealers get their stuff and, and I got to a pretty high level. It's a miracle you weren't killed.

It is a miracle. It was, I mean, I was, I mean, this is what I do for a living, though, you know,

and pretty fearless at the time. So when you're talking to your old Navy SEAL buds or black

“water buds in your down there and they're saying, what do you up to? What were you saying?”

I would just tell them. I've crossed over to the other side. I wouldn't tell them exactly what I'm doing, but I would, I mean, they know everybody kind of knew, you know, I mean, it just, I started losing friends. Uh, I know the conversations were like, oh, yeah, I mean, he's down on Columbia and nobody really hears from him anymore. And, uh, I would resurface

every once in a while. Sometimes guys would come down to see me. They wouldn't last for a long

they'd head back out, um, immediately. And, um, and, uh, it just, it got to be very dark. And, uh, you know, I, I owed you down there a couple of times. And, and I remember one time, I woke up and, uh,

“it was like, it was Mother's Day. And, uh, I remember, I remember calling my mom and I was all”

junked out. And, uh, I remember after that conversation that it just hit me like a ton of bricks. And, uh, I knew I needed to pull myself out of that. And it kind of like went right back to the

time when, you know, I told you the only reason I made it through Buds was I didn't want to let my

parents down. And, I sure as hell didn't want my parents to get a notice weeks later that there son had OD done cocaine in a pen house in Colombia on, who knows how long that would take to even get to them. And, um, so it, it had, it had painted this picture of my head. And, uh, I, I started seeking help. It's a big moment. Yeah. Before you begin that path to redemption. Yeah. What got you there? What made you establish residency in Colombia and go all over these countries,

these, the most dangerous countries on earth to mess with other people's drug rings, my God, right? It's like playing with plutonium for a living. Yeah. And be so reckless with your life and your well-being. Uh, you know, I just, I just didn't value life anymore. I didn't, I didn't care. I mean, I expected to, I expected to die down there. And, uh, and then when I got close, uh, I realized, uh, there's a lot more to life than this. And so, so I cleaned it up and, uh,

truth be told. I mean, that was kind of been awakening, but I wasn't 100% ready to shut it down. And then I had, you know, I built quite the network down there. And I got tipped off that the federal police in Colombia were surveilling me and, uh, and people that I was with. And, um, so I had, I idiot out of the country. What's in need? I mean, I just, I abruptly left. And, uh, I did kind of a, um, we call them an SDR, but, uh, surveillance detection route. And I wanted to see

if they were surveilling me, uh, if I was walking around town. And, um, so I got rid of everything, cleaned everything up. And, uh, went to an internet cafe, booked myself some tickets, uh, to a couple of different places, jumped on one. And, and, uh, and left the country.

“Came back, stayed side. Yeah. Do we expedite to Colombia?”

Just asking for a friend. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but, uh, but yeah, no, I got out of there. And, uh, went home, went home to Missouri, talked to my parents then, it was some, you told him? Was real? Tell them everything. Yeah, I don't remember telling them anything. And, uh, woke up the next day after telling them with a hangover and my dad, uh, was, I could just tell by the look on his face, um, that I must have spilled probably just about everything. What did they look

say? Very concerned. Yeah. And worried. I didn't take it seriously. I didn't think I needed any help. And, um, I just kept at it. Uh, what do you mean kept at what? I kept at, uh, I wouldn't put the

through the career, I mean, you just, you know, I, I had mentioned, you know, numbing it out.

“And, and numbing it out becomes, uh, it's not even a cycle. It's just, it's just, it's just”

pills after pills. So we have a place. You know, it's volumes, annex, Laura's a pan, ambient, hydrocoding, oxy, tram at all. What kind of whatever you can just wash down, uh, to shut the brain down and, and get some rest. And, uh, so I wasn't doing that. I wasn't ready to clean that up. I had kind of wiended myself off the, off the Coke. And, um, and then things just weren't good better. My life wasn't developing afterwards. And so I started going to therapy. And, uh,

which was talk therapy. Yeah. I started going to talk therapy. It extremely hesitant. I was, I thought, well, I need to go to somebody. I have to go to somebody that's experienced what I've

“experienced. I need, like, a Vietnam vet, or, or somebody that has seen action. And, uh,”

I couldn't find anybody. And, um, so I just googled. I just googled therapist, talked to two or three of them, and walked into one, uh, which was very, it was, uh, interesting, because this was kind of before, before anybody really knew about the suicide epidemic, before PTSD and traumatic brain injury and operator syndrome or whatever they're calling on this week, um, kind of started getting out there. And, uh, Man, it was, uh, it took me a while to

warm up, but it was, I love it. Male or female. Female. Nice. Yeah. I love a female therapist. My currently is male, but there was a woman who I googled when I was leaving my first husband before there was Doug. There was Dan with whom I'm still friends, but we did get a divorce.

And, uh, same thing, I googled this woman and she totally changed my life. You never know. I mean,

you can, you can, you can, stretch gold. Yeah. And then Mary Yellowpages or Google Pages as it is now. And I can relate to doing that and having it be a life changer. Yeah. It, uh, good for you. I'm happy for you. Thank you. Um, so yeah, interesting enough. She had never talked ever talked to a combat vet and wound up a divine research and wound up being a pretty staunch liberal, uh, which I probably wouldn't have gone to her. So you were more conservative going in. I know you're

mean right now, but back then you were, too. Yeah. Okay. Definitely probably more so. But, um, but I got to be honest, you know, that woman is like an angel. And, uh, I don't, I don't care what her political beliefs are. That woman has saved more special ops guys, uh, from suicide than anybody, anybody, than anybody saved and combat than anybody I know. And, uh, and, uh, she can, she still does it to this day. And that was back and probably 20, 20, 15, 20, 16 time frame. And, uh, it was,

it was me. And when I, when I left the agency, I was also, uh, trying to save my best friend's life who had a terrible heroin addiction. And I talked him and took going in to, to, to meet her. And, and then I just started telling everybody. And I remember, um, my best friend's name was Gabe and we gave her a, uh, a sealed team plaque just to say thank you. And, uh, because she was helping

us out, uh, with, she had dubbed her prices down and, and, uh, just to, uh, an amazing woman. And now

you go in there and her entire office is just plaque after plaque after plaque. Pretty soon you're going to see a Trump banner. She can be wearing the mega hat. Yeah. But, uh, that would be a slight to see. But, um, but, um, but I mean, it, you know, the reason I say that is because there are some things that can, that can, you know, political agendas don't, yeah, they don't get in the

“way, you don't see that very often these days. And I, I think that's important. I love that”

you said that. I feel the same. I, I have very strong political views on a number of issues. But, pretty much 80% of the people around me who I love in my life, the, the woman who raised

liberal. They're Democrats. So I have tons of love in my heart for all of them, even though they

don't vote the way I vote and they don't feel the way I do about the issues that are really important to me, but I don't care. I, those don't have to be the stakes of the relationship. Yeah, takes a strong person to overcome that these days, um, but, they're out there.

“Yeah. Do you say her name or at least refer her first name?”

Her first name is Amy. My lady was named Amy. What are we? The country was this, Missouri? Well, no, now that was, uh, that's uh, South Florida. Okay. Yeah. My lady was in, uh, the Virginia area in Northern Virginia. Interesting. Well, that will talk after her eyes. But same thing, um, and I, when you're telling me that story, it reminded me. So, you know, we, we have military guys on all the times. I just absolutely respect the hell out of you guys and what you do.

And as I said, and would love to raise two little soldiers, but don't really want to for the reasons discussed. And, uh, we interviewed Dakota Meyer. Oh. And, of course, his story is just,

it's incredible. Medal of Honor. Talked about how he was drunk up there when President Bush

is painting the Medal on him and, or was Obama. And, um, he talked very openly about how difficult it was for him to come back and missed the guys and missed the adrenaline and just dealing with the trauma of everything he'd seen and done. And he talked about his own moment of super low and being rescued by an angel. And we pulled the sound bite. So take a watch. I felt like where I was at and I did that point that, you know, that I just couldn't get my stuff

together and, and, and I just, I, I should fix it, right? Like the fear I could see in people's eyes, you know, with me, like I was a monster. It's just like drinking and just, you know, you know, the thing is, is this, and people don't talk about this much. You know, you don't fight evil with nice people. And I just remember driving home and I pulled off this highway and my buddy shot because I knew, you know, I didn't want anybody worried about me, right? So I pulled in and I knew

that he would be in because he comes into work every morning. And I just, yeah, I mean, I was just, I was going to do it right there. I stuck it to my head and I squeezed the trigger and it just, like it went click and there was no round in it. And I don't know if, you know, I, I feel like I know who did it. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't truly know though. But he said he does believe he knows a friend had removed the bullets from the gun. Wow. He thinks it was a friend.

Yep. Does he know who it was? He said he thinks he does. But that's an angel. That's a real

“life God's angel on this earth. Yeah. Looking out for him. You know, she saved him. And I believe,”

you know, Amy may have saved you and maybe my Amy saved me. It's like, yes, you kind of have to be a willing participant. But I know you've found faith. And I, I'm also a person of faith. And I do think like if you're just open, I'd, you can see these angels, like often all around us. Yeah. And they look like mere mortals. But they, they were sent here for a purpose that that your therapist goes home at night. And when she looks back at her day to say,

what did I do today that really mattered? My God. Yeah. Does anybody have a better roster?

Probably not. Probably not. She's amazing. Oh, no, you're doing it. I mean, that's kind of

how you make your living now. There's talking to guys who probably aren't that used to talking about this stuff in like a safe place, right? Somebody who gets it. It's kind of a form of talk therapy.

“Just to sort of be able to speak about it, at least it's a step. Well, it is. And, you know, I think,”

you know, my podcast is done well and you're being humble. And, but I give, I give Amy a lot of credit to how I interview because I, I realized, you know, I realized in therapy, and she really didn't say a whole lot. And a lot of times you just start figuring things out yourself by just getting it out. And, and, and so I realized, you know, and I realized that if you just let somebody talk them, they'll, they're just going to keep going nine times out of

ten. And, and, and, yeah, so, so being in therapy twice a week for three and a half years, really helped me as an interviewer. Yeah, right as an interviewer, too, right? Just to let people talk

So, when did you find love because that seems relatively recent, right? You got engaged, you got married, now you have two kids, including a new daughter, congrats. Thank you. Thank you.

“So, what did you find your wife, your future wife, during all of the Amy time, or when?”

Yep, right in the middle of it. Uh, I had a, I've met my wife on a gun range at a, uh,

nice, lovely, nice, beautiful, that's amazing. I know, right? And, uh, my, my best friend,

uh, still to this day, David Rutherford, uh, had a new sniper rifle that he wanted to decide in, and he knew, he knew somebody that had access to a thousand yard range. And so, we went out there, her dad met us, and, uh, my wife's name is Katie, she jumped out of the truck, and, uh, and that was, that was that, we, we, we shot some guns, we went to the, uh, the club restaurant, she gave me some tots, and that was, that was the,

what's tots? Tater tots.

“Big fan. They'll me too. Also, because I haven't had a French fry in three years. What?”

Yes, it was a personal mission. I'm basically Navy Sealtil in my strength and my ability to say

no to the, the things that are bad for me. Um, no, I decided in June of 2021, they were becoming a problem for me. I don't know why, and then I need to swear off, it's why I decided to go a year. And now I'm, I'm almost three years clean. Well, congratulations. But the tot is the back door to the fried potato. Uh, uh, I mean, I got past like a drug vest of, you know, Diego, right on. But it's not even called the same thing.

It's called a Tater tots. I know a french fry. Anyway, big fan, because they, they allow me to still have mine. They're amazing. But I'm not as addicted as the French fry. They don't have the same down the rabbit hole quality for me. Yeah, you know, french fries are, it's like a conveyor belt for ketchup. Yes, totally agree. The only purpose of the tot is to deliver the ketchup. Right? I don't know. And then somebody will buy like the

whole foods ketchup, and you're like, oh, what is this? It's throw it's the entire meal. Right?

“You need the sugar, the preservatives, whatever hines does. That's what we need. That's right. That's”

right. All right. So I never realized it could be an Aphrodisiac, but I like how Katie rolls.

So she lures you in with the tots and the guns, and you were like, I'm home. When I'm when are we getting married? That's right. So how long thereafter were you married? Oh, man. I think it was, I think it was about a year or a half. So we were in Boca Ratone, Florida. I was definitely a fish out of water in that town. And you know, there's a lot of, I grew up in the Midwest in a town of 6,000 people in a farm town. Now I'm in Boca Ratone,

Florida. Lots of money. Lots of trash. Okay. Lots of that. And so what me and Katie got serious. It didn't take long. And, and, you know, Katie's been sober for 15 years now. And I was on a path to get, it was on my radar. And so I had asked her in a couple of questions that really resonated with me. And, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of fake people in South Florida, at least in my experience. And so with Katie,

I remember asking her a question and it was something along the lines of, you know, now that, you know, how do you find real hobbies once you're sober? Because I don't, I had zero hobbies other than then booze. And she had a real answer. And it was just, that's a great question. It, it, it just takes time. And, but she was engaged in that conversation. And so I knew I was like, this is a good one. And she's real. And I had not been around a real

woman in a long time. And, and that was, I still remember what it was. It was at a Thai restaurant in Fort Lauderdale. And she had told me that and I was like, the conversation just got, it, it, it, uh, I couldn't talk to anybody like that other than my therapist. And, um, or anybody that had been through something like that, like, like what I was in the middle of. And, um,

going to marry her. And, uh, I just, I said, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to raise my

family in South Florida. So we're going to have to leave. And, um, and, uh, so yeah, we wound up in, in Tennessee. Does she have any roots there? Or was it just the flocking to Tennessee that so many conservatives did? We, no roots, no roots. We just packed up and, and, and, and want to fight. At least she went from the one state with no state income tax to another state. That's right. That's right. Do an answer is suddenly

amongst the crew. That's nice to see here in the Northeast. Yeah, I know I was like, it's blown up. We were looking there for a little bit. Let's go Connecticut. That's right. It's not going to happen. Hard to blow. That's all I'm good. I'm a hobby front. Have you considered

needle point, or as my good friend describes it, a high class finger sport. Interesting.

I have not. No. Are you in the needle point? No, no. I said, we are too young to be doing that. Get off of the beach immediately with that monstrosity in your hand. I refuse to sit with you. So did you find whatever? A hobby? Business. Yeah, I was going to say it's this. It involves this microphone. I found business. And that's my hobby. So yeah, my hobby is, I mean, I don't have time for them. I don't have hobbies either. It makes you feel any better. I love

being in my business. And now you have two kids. And I love being with my kids. And so anything outside of that, it's just not much time for me. Yeah, no, there really isn't. I remember we had

“kids. A good friend of mine said, you should tell your friends, you just said your kids, and that”

you won't be seeing them for about 10 years. That's right. And he's like, the true friends will still be there for you. And you get there. And the ones who aren't really your true friends, good riddance. We're figuring that out. We are definitely figuring that out. It's interesting how fast your taste and friends changes. Yeah. You know, especially, I don't know how old your kids are, but 14, 13 and 10. Oh, okay. Nice. I'm looking forward to those ages. They're great ages.

Highly recommend this period of parenthood. It's awesome. Really. They're so easy and they're so fun. And they have the best personalities. And they still love us. I just, I think we're in the sweet spot of parenting right now. When they're little, I know you've got two little's. It's hard. They're adorable, but it is hard labor. Yeah, we're in potty training right now. But I love every minute of it. You know, it's, it's, it's a tough balance, you know, between work and, and family.

But I always lean more towards family and, and, and, and it just goes so fast. Yeah. I'm already

realizing that. And I don't want to, you know, I'm glad that I waited until after service for kids because, um, it sounds like you've listened to at least a couple of my interviews and, man, you know, I'm just, I'm glad that I never had to put my, I will never have to put my kids through what that was like, but what it turned to be into being gone all the time. And, um, a lot better now than than than back then. And you don't have to live with a regret of having missed it.

Yeah. Even for a good cause, you know, it's hard to miss it. I've talked to enough people who've made a different choice. You can just hear the regret in their voice and see it on their face. And it's not recaptureable once it's gone. Very true, very true. But, um, you know, I think in Tennessee, you'll do better in in instilling values into your kids that reflect your own, right? That's one of the challenges here in the Northeast. It's really. Whoa. Yeah. I mean, these woke schools,

we've let our New York City schools because of that here in Connecticut, we got it made. We did our homework this time. Since we were fleeing. And, um, we found two great ones. But it's

“important, right? Because you'll find out when your, how old is your oldest, your boy?”

Two and a half. Yeah. So you'll find out when they start to go to school that the schools are, they're your partners. I mean, you need to find a partner. They're the ones you're going to spend the most waking hours with your kids every day. Yeah. So if you're not on the same page about how we're raising a boy or how we're raising a girl, how we're creating a good human being and future citizen, you know, current citizen. But like, you know, responsible citizen, things can go south quickly.

That is a constant topic of discussion at our house. It's, well, how we're going to do that. Are we going to home school? We're going to do private school. What are we going to do? And, turns out we live in a like a homeschool mecca. That's good. Yeah. So we're looking into possibly doing that. I love the homeschooling communities. I have a dear friend who's doing

“that swears by it. So what does life look like now? You do the podcast like 25 hours a day. Honestly,”

how do you do these five hour podcasts? Man, I just, I just listen, you know, and, you know, like,

they probably have not been in their mind in years. And you can't do that on a timeline. You can't,

“you can't do that in a condensed timeline. And so, you know, my longest one I think is nine hours.”

Is that right? Who's that with? This guy, Cody Alford, he was a Marsa guy. But,

and so, you know, in, and I think the first one I do was write about two hours. And

but then I kept getting longer and I noticed the more time I spend on the more time I give them, the more they open up. And, and one of the kind of developed into is, is I remember, I don't remember who the first guy was. It might have been this guy Prime Hall. But, do you have any idea how many people have been through like child trauma? Sexual trauma, abusive, parents, whatever it is, and it's like, everybody. And so, the first time that happened, I was like,

all right, I got to start diving more into childhood. And, and, I'll bet 75% of the people have come on have experienced some type of abuse as a child. And, and I dig into kind of what's happened in

“today with trafficking and put a failure and all of that kind of stuff. And so, I think it's really”

important to dive into the, to the childhood stuff because it gives people that have been abused, that are trying to process that still into their adult life and kids that are going through right now. I mean, it, it shows them like, man, no matter what I'm going through right now, like, I can still find success and find happiness in life. And, you know, there's just not a lot of people doing that right now. And so, when somebody goes into their childhood experience and they're going

to get descriptive about it, you know, that when they're done and we're done with that section,

I always ask, you know, for, for a kid that's in your position right now, you know, looking back,

what could, what could you have done or what would you advise, you know, other kids that are in

“your position or were, are there, you know what I'm trying to say? What advice do you have for them?”

And, I mean, it's helping. You know, it's really helping. And then, and then we get into the military stuff and it's super descriptive. And, you know, and I want it to be, I don't want to condense format because when I started doing this, I wanted to do it because these guys weren't getting a voice in the media at all. And, um, and when they

did, it was a 30-second blurb. And, you know, so, why are we having talking heads in the media

documenting what happened over there, uh, with a bunch of people that weren't there that thought they knew. And so, I wanted to, it kind of started with, I wanted to just document history the way it actually happened, uh, with people that were at the events. And so now we've got, you know, just about every major operation that has happened, uh, we got. I heard the one with, um, forgive me, I don't remember his name, but the gentleman who, the last is arm and his leg in the

Afghanistan, for all. Tyler Vargas. Oh, my God. And that, just as whole life, had been rough with the dad who was the child molester. And it was just, there was a lot in there. And those stories are, they're infuriating, right, because they're recent and we lived them. And we still have those same leaders who have yet to make any apology for what happened to guys like Tyler, nothing. Yeah, it's, uh, very discouraging. I mean, he's a perfect example, though, you know, he, he

interviewed with Good Morning America for seven hours. Did he really? And they released, I believe he said five seconds of that interview, because it made potas look so bad. And, and so, I reached out to him. I, I wanted to give him the opportunity to get his story up, and he had testified everyone at Congress and no, no, I mean, none of us were given the actual boots on the ground version of what the hell happened during that withdrawal. And so he came on. We got it out.

They tried to censor us and, and he had all kinds of, of actual footage of what was going on, and they kept digging. And I saw you can't have that in there. You can't have that in there. Who was YouTube, you know, and it's like guys like this happened. Like my own system.

a lot of this footage has been, some of it had been in the media. And it's like,

as you can't, like, this is, this is what happened. So we peanked all the footage and then put it

“behind, put, put the real version behind a paywall, because the most important thing was just to get”

his story out. And we want to, we want to, we want to get that, getting that out, you know, after several attempts. But not for nothing. I know this isn't, at all, why you're doing this. But in any sane world, you'd be getting in a word for that kind of coverage. In any sane world, somebody like you would get recognized with a P body for something like that, not the nonsense that now gets rewarded with Pulitzer's and other awards like the Cronkite. That's actual journalism,

actually getting the story and being unafraid to tell it no matter where it takes you. Thank you. We actually pulled a sound bite from that interview. Here he is, Tyler Vargas Andrews talking about what happened during the attack as we withdrew from Afghanistan. Like 10 minutes goes by and just flash and just get hit with his massive wave of pressure and then I'm like my eyes are closed, my vision's black and I'm like slowly coming to my right ears.

It's just like super high pitch ringing. My left ear is muffled and I can just hear people screaming

in the distance and I'm just like struggling with my eyes. Finally, I can open my eyes and there

was someone else's fucking body part just like laying in front of me. And the people on the other side of the canal, just immediately in front of me, just got fucking evaporated. I kept trying to stand up and like fuck like why can't I stand up when we start taking fucking shots. Everybody and I'm like almost a movie for the last. I try my fucking hardest to crawl backwards. All I could do is like put my left arm on the ground and I'm just like fuck like

why is my eye on the working and I remember looking it up. It's narrow but it's just like fucking shredded up at the elbow and bloody and I'm just fucking red everywhere. Pretty horrific. We just got into this recently because President Biden's former press secretary Jen Psaki wrote a book trying to say it's not true. He looked at his watch when the bodies came home to dover. It's a lie. He looked at his watch several times. She's still running cover for him

in her job as a so-called journalist. It's on tape. You can see it repeatedly. There he is in the ceremony over and over trying to sneak in glances and some of the parents of the fallen are very angry still about that and now about the lies to wipe wash it but this is no one ever got fired for any of it. Yeah. So how are these guys like Tyler feeling about about that and about the administration and how it was handled? I mean, they're I'm raged. We're all enraged. I mean,

do you know that we're sending $40 million a week to the Taliban now? Right. It's actually like

$43 to $87 million a week. The Taliban. Yep. Be the same people that we fought for what 2020 plus years? Hmm. Who are now not allowing girls to go to school, dressing them in full bulk as marrying them off at age 12. Those people. Yeah. Cutting people's heads off, assassinating all of our allies over there, lining them up, shooting them in the back of the

“head. I mean, it's it's uh pretty. I just don't know how anybody can support that. Why are we doing that?”

Why are we why are we doing that? Why are we giving a run money? You know, or were up until 10/7? I don't know. You know, I wish I could answer that. I don't. I just don't know. It doesn't. You know, what's up is down now and what's left is right. What's black is white and and uh it's it's the deconstruction of America. Well, what do you, I mean, it's got to be directly related to the recruiting rates? No. Like guys are looking at this saying why am I why would I

join up for that? What? There's no responsibility. Our lives are taken for granted. No one gets fired. No one says sorry. We continue to funnel money to our enemies who how much blood and treasure was lost and Afghanistan fighting the same group, which we're now funding. I just

“like I know people say that's not it. No, I think that's it. We looked at the surveys as to why”

guys are not signing up anymore. And like the top, the top item was fear of death, which is okay, yes, normal, but for centuries, and guys have been getting past that and signing up anyway, but they're not. So what, what is it? I mean, I think it has to do with a lot of things. I think

nobody, let me talk about miscalculating your your your your body of work. I mean,

it is not liberal Democrat families that sign up for the military. It is middle class to low class conservative families. And you just alienated your entire base. Nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to go to become a seal to be going to gender ideology crash courses and and pronoun training or whatever the hell else they're doing, and they're how not to be a right-wing extremist and I'm dealing with your white rage.

“Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think it's that. I think it's the way the wars ended. I think it's”

it's it's the new advertising that they do for recruitment. She's a lesbian. Yeah. Her mother's

RLGBTQ. It's it's everything. Everything about what the messaging they're putting out is is who are they going to get? Right. I mean, the numbers are at record lows and we are precariously perched on possible conflict. God forbid a new crane. The United States doesn't want any part of that. God forbid the Middle East. And they're still talking about Taiwan. Like it's like I don't like we might actually get involved over there. I was talking to a former Navy sail whose

name you would know and he was like, hey, we're not going to win the Taiwan thing. Like they're going

to take it. China's going to take it and there's not much we're going to be able to do about it

without actually getting involved militarily boots on the ground and the American people are going to want that. Like if China takes it, his analysis was we're going to have to let him take it. I mean, we'll probably provoke him to take it. Just to start another war. Just to spin up the military industrial complex more than it already is. And I mean, that's seems to be what we do as we provoke, you know, and then capitalize. And can you zoom out on that Sean? Do that like

explain that to me? Because I understand people who throw that term around military industrial complex, but you understand it better than most. Yeah. So the military, I mean, let's take it back

“to the Iraq war. I don't think we should have been there. At the time, I think, yeah, it was great.”

I got action. I got to do what I signed up to do. We got to kill a bunch of bad guys. Now that I'm older and I'm out and I see a bigger picture. I mean, I just think it's kind of weird that Dick Cheney was the CEO, Halibird and Halibird was the biggest logistics. Not the biggest. Probably the only logistics company in both wars. And so everywhere you went, it was Halibird into the laundry. Halibird did the gas, Halibird and built the barracks, Halibird and

built the Chowhall, Halibird and cooked the food. Halibird and did. They did everything. The mail, everything. It was KBR, Halibird. He was the CEO of that. So all all infrastructure in the entire Iraq war was Halibird. Who is the former CEO? Is the Vice President of the United

“States? That's what we're getting at. Then there's Boeing, Lockheed, Martin,”

Raytheon, Northward Graman, and all of these, they make a lot of the tech and the missiles and the planes and all of these sorts of things. Guns, communications, equipment, everything. Everything that that is new that's being developed is, it's not the government development. It's these companies that they get paid on godly amounts of money to fund to develop things you would use anymore. And then they put people like Nikki Haley on their boards. Exactly. She's not only on the Boeing

board, but she has a husband who's making military vehicles right now. That's his side business where he's making the vehicles that I'll be used in war, which they profit off of. Yeah. This is what you're talking about. And then in her world was about to step into the presidency and what have zero conflicts? Yeah. Or, you know, like Ukraine. I mean, we send all of our stuff over, all of our missiles, our tanks, our UAVs, our javelins, whatever, you fill on the blank.

And so now we have to replenish all the stockpiles and which is making these companies. It's given

Those saber rattling. And the reason the politicians do it is because these are big donors.

Yeah. I mean, I can't be, you know, you would probably know more about that than I do, but yeah, I mean, lobbying organizations. Hey, you'd be looking at all the people that are supporting what's going on in Ukraine and Russia and still. Yeah, still. It's in, why were we? I mean, why were we in Afghanistan for 20 plus years just to completely abandon it? Yeah. And then there were there with so many things we could have used there. We gave a bobber,

marre force base. One of the most strategic air force bases in the world.

“Afghanistan has endless amounts of lithium that we could utilize for our green initiative, right?”

But we'll just give those over to China and let them sell us lithium, even though we had built all the infrastructure there. And they're already mining it. Why? Why would we do that? Why would we give it up? Yeah. Because we made a decision to cut and run and that was the decision we were going to live by. I guess, I mean, I can't, I can't find any logic.

I mean, the problem is on that one, both parties are to blame, right? Only Trump came up with a plan

and then Biden executed it terribly. Yeah. But I mean, Trump too wanted to pull us out of there and not keep anything. I mean, I realized we were over a war. And I mean, the forever wars are real thing and people who grew up, I mean, I'm a little older than you are, but both of us grew up in a time where in the beginnings we thought these are just wars and we're serving a worthy cause here and we understand why the United States is doing it. It's only having sort of been in the midst of

this belief and then seeing it all crashed down and then seeing the aftermath that you realize, I was sold a bag of goods. Yeah. It's really interesting if you can take yourself out of the,

you know, the politics and your emotional state and look at these things from like a 30,000 foot

view. And it might paint a different perspective and, you know, maybe maybe we aren't the good guys. What do you think will happen with Ukraine? I mean, at what point does the United States say, they're not gonna can't win. This is throwing good money after bad and get more aggressive about forcing some sort of compromised end to this thing. Man, what do I think will happen in Ukraine? I think, I mean, I think a change in the presidency could possibly end it.

Are there Ukraine's ours? I don't think there's will ever. I mean, I would not now. Yeah, why would you? So much they're getting so much out of this, but, um, I'm just saying, but like, I don't know that the Ukrainian people are insane as Zelensky seems with his, you know, no compromise if we're going to see it through to the end. All your people will be dead. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think, uh, I think this bricks thing has a lot.

I think that things will get an interesting one. China starts making more moves.

“That's what I think. I don't think any of these wars are going anywhere.”

Should we have nothing to do with that? With with Taiwan, China. And you're asking some tough questions. Um, that's one I think we would probably need to step in on. Actually, step in though. I mean, do you agree boots on the ground will be required? How are we going to fight that one from bones?

How are we going to fight that? I think that I don't know. Definitely, a lot of Navy. That's right. We don't have enough ships. A lot of Navy.

“And I think all of our allies would need to come together to, to, to, I mean, I think that, I mean,”

I personally think we're on the brink of, of World War III with China. Yeah. Over Taiwan. I mean, look at all the angles they have on us. You know, they, they are behind the fentanyl crisis. They're sending in all the supplies. They're trading the cartels. How to make the world's most potent fentanyl. Actually, now, now they're teaching them how to make Nidison, which until went from what heroin to fentanyl to Nidison. They're behind, they're behind that.

gurus. I mean, I have to mention this by. This, yeah, this, I mean, we have our, I mean, yeah, that's, that's out there, right? What's his name was sleepin with the Chinese spy. Erics, uh, swallwell, right? Is that, I get, I get my far left Democrats confused. I can't remember his name,

“but that's what it was. But, uh, I mean, they, they have, they have salt. I mean, look at California.”

The, for what I understand, all the real estate signs now are all in Chinese. And I've always

wondered, I mean, you see this massive migration happening all across the country with red states being inundated with people fleeing California, New York, Chicago. And, uh, I was always wondered, you know, who's buying all this real estate over there? If everybody's leaving. Yeah, right? Who's buying all this real estate? They're selling it to China. We rolled out the red carpet form when it came to visit. They're take over of Hollywood. Yeah. The NBA. Yeah. They have more money than God when

it comes to buying things that are American or American owned. You know, their own people can suffer. But they're very interested in spending tons of money buying up our industries and our land, and we're just suckers for the dollar. So we say yes. Yeah. You know, that's why that's why the NBA

“said, sure, we'll do whatever you want, and we won't criticize you. That's why Hollywood takes”

anything they find offensive out of its films. So they can make money over in China, um, you know, the sales there. We've bent the knee, you know, to our Chinese master. So you're right. It's happening in more of my people just aren't paying attention. They're living their life. Not paying attention a little bit more here and there. But they're happening all over the world. I mean, look what they're doing in Africa. You know, they're settling Africa. They have, they have,

they are the influence and Afghanistan now. I mean, they have. They go in with their money and they make these countries dependent on them. And that used to be us that used to be the United States,

being the leader of the free world and being out there, helping the third world countries and creating

some loyalty and some, um, the ally ship. We're not doing that anymore. But China is. You're exactly right. And then, I mean, you just, I mean, that right there alone shows how many angles they have. And I know there's more. I'm just, I'm, uh, put on the spot. Yeah, but, uh, what's scary to think about? It is. You know, it's very scary. And I don't think people, I don't think people understand, you know, how, how pertinent it is that we need to start addressing the stuff like a media,

like yesterday. I mean, the one thing we are going for is is their economy's not strong. That's what I keep hearing. Like, I, but I hear both sides, you know, and, um, I, I don't, I mean, they have so much influence across the world now and their version, the bricks initiative, your where or the bricks initiative, you know, and devaluing our currency. I think the last time I checked, there's like 22 countries on board that now. There's, and there's, it's a sketchy

crew, but they have a lot of money. Yeah. So now more than ever, we need new up and coming, the next generation of Sean Ryan's. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. So what do you do? Trump's got to win and people have to see America as strong again. And maybe you'll be a little afraid of us, you know, I mean, that's, um, the New York Times just did a poll showing that Trump's beating Biden in five out of the six swing states. Same as it was in November by a healthy margin in most of them.

And, um, they were so befuddled by their own poll. They went back to their, to the people who responded to say, like, why, why? What is it? Really? It weren't me and he's so bad. How could you insurrectionist? And in particular, it was interesting because they went to some black voters saying, "We don't get it. Why are your numbers surging?" And they said, "Oh, you know, we don't, we don't love Trump. He's got a big mouth." He says some stuff we don't like, but he's strong. And I think

the country's going to be a little safer with him and there. He keeps people off balance. And then others said, "The economy, I don't need to like him. I need my wallet to be a little fatter."

And it was. It just did some look back in the economy. It was, like, defined up at 16 percent,

more was going into people's average paycheck's under Trump than it is now. So, yeah, we need a strong leader. There's a chance we won't get one. It's not a lock tromp wins. Robert Kennedy, also anti-militarian

“industrial complex. Could you ever vote for him? I think I could vote for him. Could you?”

Yeah, I definitely could vote for him. He's too left for me on many, many issues, but I'm not as hardcore conservative as like, a lot of my audience. I love that he's kind of anti-establishment

I'm kind of green. I like the green agenda, not the green new deal or any that nonsense. But like,

“I have some other, you know, I would like to see us be a little bit more realistic about the climate change.”

Hey, you know, that's something I love talking about this, you know, because you do something positive for the planet and conservatives like throw a shit fit. Yes. And it's like, hey, man, we live here. Right. It case you haven't noticed everybody's dying of cancer. Yeah. Cancer from shit in our foods, cancer from shit in the air, cancer from cancer from everything. It might be, you know, it might be good for us to improve the planet a little bit. But that's just my take.

What if we had a RFKJ in there saying, don't eat that. Don't do that. That's not getting

a blessing anymore. This is a problem over here that he spent his whole life filing lawsuits against people who are polluting our environment in one way shape or form. I love that. I realize, I mean, he said he would allow abortion to the ninth month. Then he walked it back. He's not good on my issue, which is women's rights against the crazy trans lobby. But I have more issues than just that. So I definitely could vote for our KJ. I just asked him about the full term abortion thing.

I just interviewed on last week and he told me that the only reason that he would go full term would be for the mother of she was going to die if she if she if there was a life threatening. So he's arrived at that a little late. Yeah. He told sage steal. It's up to the mom. Okay. Whatever she wants all the way through ninth month. And then sage, who's, I mean, anything was like, it's okay for a mother just based on her own desire to abort a baby at full term. And he

answered it again saying, well, I would. Oh, really. But then all the shit storm came and he walked it back. It was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh my god. I mean, I understand if that's your big issue and it is for a lot of, you know, deeply faithful people in particular. He's out. Yeah. But anyway, it all depends on your hierarchy of, you know, principles. And I just, I love how anti-establishment he is. Me too, man. Me too. So speaking of faith, you are, you've had a bit of

“a metamorphosis in your own life. I know. Is that because of Katie or is that your own journey?”

That's my own journey. And, um, do you want me to go into it? Yeah. Okay. Um, well. So I interviewed some really, I have some really heavy interviews. Tyler Andrew Vargas was one of them. And, I mean, I, it's been a long time since I've seen that. And to see a 24 year old, you know, my studio's on the second floor and to watch him hobble up there with one leg, one arm, you know, it's just, it got to me. And the day before I interviewed him, I interviewed a hacker who had hacked

into all these websites and kind of, and pedophilia websites and downloaded all the user list. Got it to the FBI. The FBI did nothing with it until I interviewed him. And, um, super dark interview,

the reality is, I mean, we, we pulled, we called a child predator in five seconds because I didn't

realize I was like, you hear about this stuff, right? And how, how common it is, but you don't, I don't, I didn't see it. And so he's in there and we're doing the interview and I said, hey,

“you have to laptop, pull it out, get in any, I don't care what it is, Instagram, TikTok, whatever”

teen chat room you want. I just want to see how long this takes. He made the screen name Ashlee 13 new jersey. Literally five seconds. It's on camera. We screen record it until he was in like a room where five seconds before 40 something year old man was one to meet a 13 year old girl at a wherever. Sick. Yeah. And so, so that's, that's what I, I mean, this is the stuff that I cover. And, um, so me and my wife were going on vacation. I just, I just finished up those two interviews,

especially the one with with Brian Montgomery, who's the hacker that just really got to me, you know, the kids stuff really gets to me. The guys who work in that industry shutting those down, yeah. It's a very hard life. Yeah. And, um, and so we went to Sedona and there was also what else was happening. The Chinese spy balloon just flew over, um, the, I saw, I think it was,

you know, show a form of our kids. And I'm just, and I, I got to this point where I was like, animating. I, I the only person that, like, gives a shit about the stuff that actually cares about kids. And, like, why we just abandoned our allies in Afghanistan and why is there a 24 year old that was blown up unnecessarily? I mean, they had the IP ID in his site. They could have killed that bomber, you know, and now all of his friends are dead. And he's, and so these are all the things

that are going through my head. And, and I hid, uh, I hid hit this point. I was having a conversation

“in my head. And I had to hit this point. It was like, why didn't he even talk about this stuff anymore?”

Like, nobody cares. You know about the maps thing, minor attracted reasons. Yes, they're trying to redefine pedophilia into this minor attracted person normal, just like, and just like a fetish, you know, like, you have some people who have a fetish, some people have a toddler fetish. Yeah. And we're supposed to accept this. Yeah. And, uh, you know, and so I'm just seeing all these things. And I'm like, how, how can, like, how can anybody, like, buy into this shit?

And I have, I have family that, like, votes left, you know, and, and, uh, it's, it's, it gets to me. It makes my skin crawl. Like, I can't, I don't understand how anybody can support any of the, what I just list rattled off. And, uh, so it got to me. And I got to this point where I was like,

“I'm not, I can't, like, I can't live like this anymore. Like, I can't. If nobody gives a shit”

it, maybe I'm, maybe I am the one that is, maybe I'm the one that has some of them wrong with it. You know, maybe, maybe this is all acceptable. And I just, I'm not, my brain isn't switching. I'm maybe I'm the problem. And, uh, I shouldn't be fighting this anymore. I need to, I need to,

I need to be happy. And it basically felt like I was surrendering to evil. And, uh, and I was

trying to convince myself to be fine with it. So, we're staying in this nice resort in Sonona. We got a, uh, guarded gate and I pay attention to that kind of stuff because of my background. And, uh, a lot of the guys knew me that worked there for, from, from my podcast and, and wanted to talk, well, this we're there for a week. The last day I walk through, and it's this old, uh, old man in there.

“And he's wanted to talk to me and me and my wife had gone up to a hike, because I was like,”

I just, I got to get the hell out of here. Maybe a hike will maybe feel better, walk back down. And, and, and this guy starts trying to talk to me. It's dark at this point. I had already kind of surrendered, like, I've done, I didn't feel good, but I had kind of made my decision. Like, I'm not doing that anymore. And, um, I'm kind of looking at him over the shoulder lying hand. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not in the mood to, like, strike up a conversation. And, but my wife starts talking to him. And,

I'm like, shit, I just want to go to my room. So I turn around, and this guy,

this guy read my mind from front to back. And, I mean, like, I've never had that happen. It wasn't.

It, I mean, it was descriptive. It was, it scared the shit out of me, because I was like, how are you, how, how are you in my head? And, uh, he started rattle and off all these thoughts that I was having on that entire hike. And he's like, this stuff that's going on in China, that's not your fight anymore. And, this stuff that's going on with the kids, that's not your fight either. And this stuff that's going on with the trans community, that's not your fight. And,

and I, I, I had shut down. I was like, well, how was this guy in my head right now? So freaked me out. We're walking back to, to our bungalow. We were in a place where it was like, kind of like a duplex. And, um, we're on one side. Somebody else on another side. We got there. We got when we got to Sedona. Uh, my best friend that I was referring to earlier as names Gabe. He died of a heroin overdose later on. But Gabe was a seal. Gabe was a pro hockey player.

Gabe was a fighter. Uh, we send MMA. Gabe was at the agency with me. And no matter where Gabe was,

Gabe was always always known as a protector. Like, no matter what unit he was in, no matter what,

who he was with could be the, the, the, the manliest of all men, like everybody knows Gabe has got you.

be Gabe's identical twin. I mean, you could see differences, but same brown line, same jaw line,

“same build, same walk, same three-day shadow, same, and everything. Uh, muscular. And me and my wife”

are both like, man, that looks exactly like Gabe. And everywhere we would go, this guy was at, we were at the pool. This guy was at the pool. If we were going on a hike, this guy was coming back from a hike. If we were out in town getting dinner, he was out in town getting dinner. And,

and we had, we had always thought it was weird because I had kind of had a breakdown on the plane,

two Sedona. And so I was in a vulnerable spot. My wife knew it. I was in a vulnerable spot. I knew it. I was with my buddy, Dave. And he knew it. And it was just odd that Gabe, who's always known as a protector, is like every, this guy that looks identical to him is, is everywhere. Well, it turns out right from that gate, we walked to our bungalow and it turns out this guy and his family is staying right across the, the thing from us. We hadn't seen him all week. And I'm like, that was weird.

“And on the way back, I'm telling Katie, I'm like, holy shit. Like, I think I think that was”

God that was reading my mind. And she's like, yes, Sean, that was God. And I'm like, can I

can't believe this? Like, how is this happening? And she's like, Sean, God's always been around you.

You just don't make time for him. And I knew that to be true. So we get to the bungalow, Gabe staying across the way, or the, the look alike, whatever you want to call it. He's, we find out he's staying right across. This is all within like 10, 15 minutes. Then we go in and I'm, I'm, I'm crying. And I'm like, I can't believe this is happening. And right before, also right before we want to see Zona, a good friend of mine, his name was Dan Cerello, died. He was kind of the only

he was a seal and a business man. And he lived in Franklin. And I don't have a lot of people that I can relate to where I live now in Franklin. And Dan is one of those guys that, that he's very successful, he owned a couple of hospitals, he owned a big security business. And he's like, one of the few people that I can sit down with and talk business and talk friends and he doesn't need anything for me. And I don't need anything from him. And those, you know, those relationships

get hard to come by. And so we hit it off really fast. And then he died on a hunting trip with a son had a heart attack. And, and, but hey, I mean, that if there's a way to go, get on him.

But anyways, his daughter, who I had never met, I'm having this breakdown in the, in the hotel.

And his daughter, I heard my phone go off. Well, I was talking to Katie. And as soon as we kind of finished what we were talking about about what was going on, I checked my phone and it's from his daughter. And, and, and, it's this text, I'd never even met her before. And, she says, she must have got my number from her dad's phone. And she said, hey, Sean, um, this is Taylor, Dan's daughter. And I just walked into my dad's gun room for the first time since he had passed away.

And he grabbed me by the arm and told me that I needed to contact you because you knew a side of them that nobody else knew. And that he wanted me to tell you that he loves you just the way

“that you are and that you're doing exactly what you should be doing. And then, I'm trying not to”

lose it right now. But, um, but, uh, so that was like the third thing all within, like I said, 10, 15 minutes. And I was like, holy shit. Like, there's no to die in this one. And exactly. And, uh, a little brick wall. Yeah. And so, you know, I grew up Catholic and never really took church seriously. Uh, I never did. And then when I left home, I never really went back and, and it kind of lost faith. And I'm not saying I wasn't a believer. I just didn't really care.

And I did think about it. And, uh, I had definitely no time for, for God. And so, I took that as, uh, I mean, that was like a slap on the face. And I, I decided I needed to get serious about faith

great. And, and you know, and to be honest, it's the only thing I can find that makes any damn sense

“anymore. And it's all, it's all in that book. Everything we're seeing happening right now isn't”

that book. Is that how you started just reading the Bible? I did. I did. I started trying to read it from front to back. And, uh, I wasn't really getting anywhere. And then I'm shocking stuff in that old testament. Yeah. Yeah. If you go that way. Yeah. And, um, but then turns out, uh, as it turns out, my entire team, I'm really close with my team, uh, my podcast team, the guys that, the work for me and, and make it what, what it is. And, uh, turns out, one guy was raised Southern Baptists,

super well-versed in the Bible. My editor, Darren, uh, grew up with Jehovah's Witness and, uh, escaped, escaped it. Yeah. But, but knows, I mean, knows that book from front to back. Um, um, my IT guy, Adam, uh, devout Catholic, knows it all. Everything, Elijah, my production manager. He's the Southern Baptists guy. And, they kind of started pouring into me. And, and a lot of my buddies that were

“in the SEAL teams, uh, Eddie Penny really kind of paved the way for all of this, I think, uh, Eddie”

Penny was, uh, we were a team two together. And then he went on to dev group. And, uh, just, like, oh, my, I mean, not who you would expect to come to faith. But he was my Christmas episode, uh, a couple years ago. In ever since, he came on and, and gave his testimony of how he came to everybody that's been on the show has brought it up. And, um, and he became kind of a mentor mind. So I called Eddie and told him. And I said, hey, this is what happened. I don't really know

where to start. I don't really know what this means. Uh, and we had a conversation and, uh, he goes, who, he was like, oh, man, he's like a lot of us of a brand for this to happen. Wow. And that kind of

“freaked me out. I was like, what do you mean? And, uh, he's like, we've been waiting for this. He's like,”

you have a big voice. And this needs to happen. And so that was it about midnight. I'm now I'm getting into some other kind of weird synchronicity, uh, coincidences. And so about 12 hours later, I had a meeting that Adam, uh, my TI schedule with me at noon. And Eddie was telling, Eddie was telling me during the conversation, he was he was talking about guardian angels and all the

other stuff that would spiritual war first stuff that I know like nothing about. Well, fast forward,

12 hours, I'm talking to Adam. I didn't know what this meeting, I thought it was about email marketing or something. And, uh, he wanted to talk to me about spiritual warfare and guardian angels. Wow. And I was like, it was literally like almost the exact same conversation as I had had with Eddie Penny, you're like, that's not on the drop-down menu of message manager. I know. And they're not friends. I mean, Adam is with all do. They have coordinates. That's you guys. Eddie is a

built like a shit brick house, a dev group operator. And Adam is a IT computer nerd who I love to death. And, uh, so no, they don't, they don't, there's no cross-pollination. They're not friends.

I've never spoken exact same conversation at noon. Come home for lunch from my studio to

God be with the wife and kids. And, um, Adam, I end in anyways. I go back to work. I look at my clock and my truck and it says, it's 444. I look at the odometer. It says 444 miles left to eat. And this is 4 hours and 44 minutes after my conversation with Adam about guardian angels. So I look up the meaning of 444. And it is, your guardian angels want you to know that they have got you. And I'm just, I'm like holy shit. And like we just had two conversations about

guardian angels. And now I'm saying 444 everywhere with us. Yeah. And, and, and, and it's in the meaning of it supposedly, according to Google, is your guardian angels want you to know that they've got you. And, um, and so I've been in it ever since and, and, uh, I've had some great mentors and started going to church that didn't last very long. And, uh, and now we have, we have a group of,

And we, we just have a discussion every week, every, every Tuesday. So when I get home today,

“that's, that's, that's what we're doing. And, uh, it's cool. You get to ask the tough questions.”

You can't, you don't need to be embarrassed. You're not going to offend anybody. You don't feel judged like you're going to church. Everybody, you know, I was feeling like I'm being judged. Oh, hello, we're Catholic. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and, uh, and there's none of that. And, um, man, you know, when you, when you, when you kind of take all of the BS, the religion kind of and jacks and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, your journey of building a relationship with, with the creator

and Jesus, it's really interesting and to be a lot of fun. I know what you're saying. My audience knows I've been having a, not unrelated struggle on that exact score. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I'm, um,

I'm Catholic, like lifelong Catholic. And I started the process of having my first marriage

annulled. And instead of like bringing me closer to God or setting me in a path that I thought would land well, it really has kind of alienated me. And, um, it's caused a bit of a crisis of faith, you know, like, who are these middle men I have to go through in order to have a clean relationship

“with God? That doesn't make any sense to me. I think God loves me and God sees me in a loving”

marriage with three wonderful kids who have a two great parents who are in love. And he's thrilled. And he will accept me into his kingdom when it's all said and done. And if he doesn't, it's certainly not going to be because I didn't get a paper, I got a paper divorce from Dan, but I didn't get an annullment from a priest, you know, and then Mary Doug and a Catholic church. It doesn't make any sense to me. So that's sort of where I am right now. I'm still

wrestling when I got tons of great feedback by the way. Thank you to my audience because so many thoughtful emails on it, you know, from Catholic listeners, but also just Christian listeners who don't believe in that, you know, middle man thing either. I haven't resolved it. Well,

“okay by opinion to myself, but the middle man is a lie. There are no middle man.”

It's just about you in your relationship. And that's it. No, you know that. And when you think like that, I mean, until it gives me a sense of peace, you know. And then you start looking at all the stuff that's going on like trans visibility day being declared on Easter Sunday. Like you can't tell me these aren't signs, you know. And this is all, like I said, this is all in there. I'm still

reading through it. I'm not through it all yet. I don't plan to be an expert, but, but, you know, I see things. I have a team to lean on who's well-versed in this stuff and very fortunate. And it's everything we're seeing happen is in that book. And when you come to that realization, it's really odd, but all the stuff that like, all the stuff that was bothering me, and it still does bother me. But at the same time, it makes me stronger because of, that was supposed to happen.

You know, up, that's in that book. Up, like, really, like trans visibility day, a confusion of genders on Easter Sunday, making a mockery of the resurrection. Like, that was in there. Yep. And, and so. So, how do you feel now? Do you feel a difference physically, emotionally? Oh, yeah. Now, versus during the Chinese travel-loon period, which was dark. Definitely. I mean, I'm at peace with it. I mean, I'm still going to fight the good fight, and I'm still

going to bring truth and uncover corruption and tell these stories. And I'm not going to abandon anything, and, and, and, and, but, you know, it, it, but seeing it all happen, it's, it is actually making me stronger because I found something in a world of nothing that makes any sense at all, not a damn bit of sense. This makes all the sense in the world. It's, it aligns with the values

that I've always had, or maybe I lie with it's values, you know, but, um, but it, yeah, it's helped me.

And, uh, and then you start learning about, you know, maybe forgiveness is for you and not for the people that did something bad to you. There was unjust, you know, it's, it's,

bad energy, hating somebody, and talking shit about them, and, you know, complaining, you know,

I got screwed over, and I'm a victim, and, and, but the minute you forgive them, that's off your plate, and it just, it, it, it's, it's, it's, like, a cleanse. Amen. But, I have blessed you. Thank you so much for coming on and telling your story and all these personal details about your life. What a pleasure. What an honor to know you. Well, thank you. Thank you for having been, and, uh, like I said, I was really excited to meet you and, uh, just

“happy to be here. I'm honored. And, honestly, God bless you. Thank you for your service. Thanks”

to all of our military members, active duty, and retired, and those we've lost for the service in sacrifice. We appreciate it. God bless you, too. I hope this is a first of many, Sean. Me, too. Well, it was amazing. Thank you. We have an amazing show for you here. We've got Charlie Sheen, and we couldn't wait to talk to Charlie Sheen, and we taped the duck conversation with Charlie Sheen

on Tuesday of this week, and he was amazing, like, completely honest and full of candor, and self-deprecating and very reflective about the incredible life he's had.

And we had always planned with his team. They're doing a press roll out around his book and his

documentary on Netflix to air it on Friday. Well, as you know, something massive happened in the country between Tuesday and Friday, involving another Charlie. And we asked ourselves what to do

“about the Charlie Sheen interview. And in the end, we've decided to put it out because I think we need it.”

I think it's good. We can't spend every moment in darkness and thinking about the awfulness that happened on Thursday. We can't. I'm losing track of my days on Wednesday. We can't. We shouldn't. We should take a moment to watch a silly comedy, or listen to a podcast about decorating. I don't take your pick sports. We have to continue on with our lives somewhat normally. And so we are going

to air this. We also have an hour-long program that we're airing in tribute to Charlie Kirk.

But I think you'll enjoy this hour with Charlie Sheen. I really did. I did not expect to like him as much as I did, and I just adore the guy now, and I think you will, too. So enjoy. Charlie Sheen is an American actor and an icon. His life has been a wild ride,

“born to father actor, Martin Sheen. What do you care if you're going to ditch his school?”

He achieved success seemingly overnight, and went on to star and film is like a platoon, wall street, and the rookie. Do I do over? No, I don't want to do over. He eventually came the highest paid actor in television history. As a star on the beloved sitcom, two and a half men. I am on a drug, it's called Shirley Sheen. But all of that success came with challenges, addiction, and tumultuous relationships. Now Charlie Sheen is eight years sober, and back to tell his story,

his own way. His new memoir, "The Book of Sheen" tells all, and we do mean all. And a new Netflix documentary released at the same time, A.K.A. Charlie Sheen hits this week, too. I let the fuse, you know, and my life turns into everything. It wasn't so fast to me. I've read the book. I've watched the documentary, and I could not recommend both more than I do. Charlie, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. It's not going to be here. Thank you.

I can't believe you didn't use a ghost right from this. Thank you for the lovely intro. Firstly, you bet. No, there was talk of that early on, and I just thought that that wouldn't give me an opportunity to deliver it, you know, from the deepest reaches of myself, you know, and I knew that it would, to the reader, that it would feel counterfeit, you know? No, you can tell it's you. I mean, your voice. All right, it resonates.

Right on. It comes right off the page. And then if you read it while you're watching the documentary, it just validates that it's 100% you. It's all you. I feel like I know you so well now, having read this and watch this. And here's where I wanted to kick it off. Okay. It seems like, you know, the addiction, I said to myself, who is Charlie Sheen? Like, what do I think of when I think of Charlie Sheen? Yes, icon. Huge star. Addict, of course, is one of the words,

those things together. But it seems like there was a feeling of inadequacy in, let's say,

Carlos Estevez versus Charlie Sheen, the icon, movie star that we know now. And my question and watching the film and reading the book was, where did that come from? And I'll just give you my own pitch on it. You tell me whether I have anything like the truth here. You had a very famous father. You then had a very famous brother. Both of whom went before you and became famous in your brother's case or were famous in your dad's. When you were, you know, not,

“you were just a regular kid. And I think it probably had a profound effect on you being around that”

level of wealth and attention directed at people around you, but not at you, that maybe

planted some seeds that weren't potentially healthy for you in the long haul. What do you make about theory? I think your theory is more than just a theory. I think I think you've tapped into some some very solid truths about what motivated me or at least what drove me like it did because, you know, for so long I was Martin Sheen's son. And then you add to that and, you know, Emilio's, that was his brother. And it just, it got to the point where, and then, you know,

growing up on dad's sets and then going out with Emilio and his crew of newly-famed, minted

actors that he was making all his movies with and just seeing the type of energy, the type of

access and the type of, the type of fun and, and, and mischief that they all had such a limitless access to that, that I just, I, I wanted a taste of it so badly and, and it was, it felt so close, she had at the same time. It was, it was, it was light years out of reach, you know? Yeah, because just because you're a fame in the family doesn't mean it's going to happen for you. And so, even trying for it was pretty bold on your part, but your story is not one of somebody who knew

he had to be an actor. You had the fest-been gene, you were going to see it through. It was kind of like just happened and then it happened really quickly. Yeah, no, it, um, I got, I got a little bit of a warm-up. I, I, I done, I done a couple films and, um, that, that nobody really cared about. It's just trying to, trying to get a sad card. Just trying to be a consistently employed actor and, and, and, and just, you know, kind of go from one job to the next and hopefully leave some

good work behind. And, um, and then just, you know, I, what, when, when, when, I guess stuff happens when it's supposed to or, or, at times, how it's supposed to. And, you know, this, this, this, this cameo just, just falls out of the sky into, into, into my lap and, and that was the film,

“uh, Ferris Bueller's Day Off. What do you care if you're willing to ditch a school?”

Why should he get to ditch when everybody else has to go? You could ditch. Gosh, I'm only on film, like probably less than three minutes, um, and even having done a couple of lead roles in forgettable films before that. And then that thing hits. And it's that thing I talk about in the book where the day before, in the grocery store, um, the girls thought I worked there, you know, and then Bueller hits and I'm no longer wearing that the

imaginary vans vest, you know? Mm-hmm. Well, I'm just over the time. So Jennifer Gray did you a solid? She got you the audition. Yeah. And you, you nonetheless showed up late. You tried to stay up all nice. You could look weathered and tired like your character and got a little too method over

“slept the alarm. Show up an hour and a half late. Jennifer Gray is like, what the hell, man?”

But it was a, the, a very interesting story you tell. You're very insightful about how John Hughes you saw him. You expected he was just going to throw you out of there and you got something different. I thought he would continue the drumming that she had initiated, um, but with him, it, it, it came to a Flintstone's halt. And, um, and he just like I, I say in the dock and, and, and the book when he just took one look at me and he literally just said, oh, good, you're here. Let's get started.

And, and just that what, what that did for just calming my nerves and, and, and my confidence and, and just knowing that I was, you know, in the presence of a man that didn't care about anything that, that, that, that, that led up to the, to the, you know, the moment that he needed to,

it's pretty cool in the movie. You can still see Jennifer. You can still see that the, the, the trailing effects of some of the, yes, some of some of her, Ier and the animosity and just, definitely. Yes, no, she was great in that scene too. And you stole the scene and you could argue you stole the movie. And I, I thought about that with John Hughes and I thought, okay, I understand why he did it because you, you walk in, you're, very good looking, you are like,

oozing the right attitude for this guy, right? He's like, this is my guy. This is, I need him in this

“scene. And I think like that would come back to help you many times, your movie's Jarapio, your,”

your good looks, your charm. And, but it wasn't always a force for, for good, for good. Like,

this, these things that would get you a pass from people like John Hughes that happened to you repeat of the in your life sound good on paper, but like, maybe weren't because gave you a feeling of invincibility, like you could get away with anything. And maybe that wasn't such a great thing for the other piece of Charlie Sheen, which is the addict's piece. Yeah, no, certainly it was not a great thing. I mean, it's nice to be forgiven, obviously,

it's nice to be given second chances and all that good stuff. But, and, and we touch on this in the dark a little bit, what was interesting that that even after not, not the biggest disasters or, or, or, or, you know, the, the, the furthest falls. But, um, there was, there, there, there, there, there was a pattern of, you know, fucking things up, sending shit off the rails. And then, and then, having a job, literally, on the other side of that event, once I had, you know,

once I dusted myself off and, and, and, you know, got, got back pretty to work. Um, so, yeah. So,

“but, you know, I, I, I think there's two sides to that, that, that, that didn't mean I had to”

take those jobs, but, but, but it, but it also didn't mean that that they always had to be there.

Does that make any sense? I kind of went. Yeah, completely around it. Um, I get it. But I just think, like, opportunity kept coming your way, because you really do have true genius in this field, that you can see it, and in the parts you, well, embody these characters, it's seem to come easy to you, like, to, let's lay people. It certainly does. And yet, the universal rewards for those talents may not be a good thing. Like, this kind of dawned on me while I was reading the book,

you, being universally rewarded for these preternatural gifts, whether it's appearance or abilities, could in some ways be a, be a devil on your back, because a life without consequences can lead to some bad choices and a, and a false feeling of invincibility. Of course, again, of course, it can, yeah. And, and, and, and there's also, um, there's this thing about, um, you know, not having to deal with, um, with a ton of failure at first, you know, there's a, there's a,

there's a little piece in the book where I mentioned that they, they teach us as kids if it first, you know, you don't succeed. You try to try again. Um, if it first you do succeed,

that's where that's saying ends, because it, it was never written. It doesn't exist, you know.

Um, and then it's like, even talking about, you know, watching dad, you know, with, with, with his assent to start him and, and his brilliant career and then watching a million, um, it's, you, you know, I thought that that I would have a handle on what that might feel like once, you know, where, where I fortunate for it to happen to me as well, even on a smaller scale at, you know, just a fraction of what they've achieved. Um, but there's no way to really prepare anyone for it.

There's no way to, um, I, I guess in some way to be like asking, um, you know, the very bonds are hankering, you know, what is, what, what, what it actually feels like to hit a home run, you know, they can, they can describe the mechanics of it, but they can't really ever put

“you inside a moment that, that, that you have to inhabit to, to, to, to, you know, truly own that”

experience. And so, watching it and then living it, um, was a whole different reality. And but then it's, it's nice to have people you can check in with and say, hey, okay, so this happened with the thing, and then I saw her, you dealt with that, and then any recommendations, any ideas, and, but even the advice, sometimes, it's, it's, it's, it's well-intentioned, but that doesn't mean that that it's, it's, it's going to be, uh, useful. And it don't mean that dismissively,

just that, that, you know, giving people advice for things that they have to experience.

We all learn that as parents. You know, you want to speak with kids, all the pain and

“anguish, you experienced by telling them the life lessons you learned, and I mean, I've concluded”

15 years in a motherhood. It's not a complete waste of time, but it's really close to a waste of time. They have to make their own mistakes in order to really learn the lessons. Sure. You know, it's pretty close to where it's the time that's brilliant. Um, pretty close. I can see like a sure Mark and Sheen was like Charlie. I'll walk you through exactly how to handle these massive challenges. You know, he's a huge star, big movie star as day apocalypse now. And he's probably

thinking, I can spare you so much grief. And then you'll learn the hard way. Oh, God, he's going to need to experience grief. His own way. And it's going to be really public too in your case. But isn't it interesting, in the book, there's those, there's those early examples of that he was the, the, you know, the voice of advice that that I would seek. He, he was the guy that I would go to. And, and, and, you know, the thing that happened with the karate kid, the thing that happened

with that early am jam deal. And then he, he was the guy I would go to. And then, of course,

you know, when it, when it came to platoon, and he advised against that as well, is when I finally told

him, I said, I got to, I got to just, I got to, I got to roll the dice on this one. Because you are offered the lead role in karate kid, ultimately played by Ralph Machio, and you turned it down for some film with the word grizzly in it where you would have very young George Clooney and a

“young Laura Dern would have known, no one would ever remember whatsoever. And you're done.”

It told you, you needed to say no to karate kid, because you would commit it to this other film. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's not the worst advice in the world. If you just break it down, just into the into the credo that that he was, you know, intent to just the, the noble essence of what he was trying to get me to, to, to pursue, you know, or, or, or to recognize, you know, so, but yeah, that was a hard one to watch and, you know, go get eaten by a bear, and then watch Ralph. You know, did do that,

but, but then, I heard you, you say this in the documentary, you know, no, no offense to Ralph Machio, but like he was kind of typed cast after that. And Ralph did not go on to become some huge, Hollywood movie star like you did. But he's still had a really respectful and terrific career and still does great work to this day, you know? Yeah. But if you think of the karate kid, it's really

difficult to picture anyone except him, even if you've just seen the first one. You know, I don't

think I had the skills or the tools or the mindset or anything at that moment in time to pull off or

“bring to it what he was able to. You know, so I think the film would have been different or what”

has started with me and that, if I only just went, yeah, yeah, you know what, let's, let's go at that Italian kid that we had a couple days ago, you know, so who knows, who knows, who know, the Spanish kid. I, instead of the Spanish kid. You come from a long line of Spanish people, like whole family, like Ramon, he's in the, in the documentary and Emilio, you dad's name isn't really Martin. There's a very Spanish. Do you connect at all with that piece of your lineage?

Just through stories and just through relatives and just, I don't, I don't, I don't go on the pilgrimages like my brother Ramon does in Emilio and dad. I guess I, I guess I lean more into the, into the Irish side of our roots, you know. No offense taken. Yeah, I know exactly where you're going with that. I would say you're a lot of beautiful women that, that's very Spanish, so like maybe it's in you in other ways that are, you know, more silent. All right, so now you, you get cast in

platoon and this too was a role that was supposed to be Emilios. This was, this was a role that was supposed to go to somebody else that you got because of timing and he took on another project, one thing led to another. So you kind of getting this role and that, that was it, right? Was platoon was the big before and after like, now I'm a household name. There's, there's BP and there's AP. You've really gotten a mistake that you just can't get out of. Yeah, before platoon, after platoon.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, again, all day, there's a nice photo. Johnny, what a trip. Yeah, that feels like a hundred lifetimes ago. You were a baby. Yeah, right. Yeah, we didn't know what we, what we created, you know, we, we thought the vets would appreciate it, we thought, you know, we thought other

but, um, now we did not expect that the, the entire world was going to join in the celebration, you know, it was, it was a pretty exciting time. The first real movie about the war in the Vietnam is Splatoon. Then you get the kind of fame that's like, you walk into a football stadium and everybody knows you, you, not to mention you could sleep with any woman in there, which, you know, like, that's very heavy, hugely heavy. And at the same time you're hanging out with all these big

stars, like I didn't know anything about your long friendship with Nick Cage. Hello, that's amazing.

Yeah, it's, and I, and I, and I think what's in the dock with with Nicholas and myself and, and, and what's in the book, I think there's some really cool, really just memorable, you know, unforgettable stuff between us, you know, it, it's not all in there, and that's just,

“hey, there we are, and that's how to respect the him and myself. And, you know, there's, there's”

some stuff that, that's just probably better that it just, it stays between the people and exists only in that moment in time. But I, but I think there is enough there to, to just give a taste, just give a vibe of, of the kind of, the, that the energy that, that we were both, you know,

that, that it was weird, we, it's like we found each other right when we needed to, and, and it

wasn't a competition thing, but, but we just, I think I talk about something in the book that, you know, something about, we, we were both on the verge of, of, of complete vision, and I brought the missing new trons, you know, stuff like that. It's interesting, I just spoke with Nicholas about an hour ago, today, and this dude, at 901 in LA, knowing it was past midnight, East Coast, downloaded my audio book, and listened to it, like started it last night, and finished it today, and wrote to me,

wrote this this beautiful, uh, the depending of of just love and support, and, and he was just such passion and excitement, and I, I just, I, I called him, and it was really, that was just like an hour ago, you know, um, because we didn't care about people about the disclosures, you made, he did not care about the disclosures, he made about him. No, he, he, he, he loved the stories, he loved the writing, you know, he just loved that, he just loved that he was a part of it. It was so cool, it was such

of just a loving, I don't want to call it an endorsement, it was, it was, it was a, it was just a kind of support that, that I, I, I would have hoped for, but when you get it for real, you know, especially from him, I was very, it was pretty special, and nobody doesn't mind that I'm, I'm sharing this with the world, you know. Now, I have to imagine you've gotten a phone call from literally every gay man who's ever met you and has your numbers saying, I see a window,

is it still open? I mean, I'm not exactly, no, it hasn't, it hasn't gone there, um, because that was a pretty isolated, isolated thing, and again, that's not about shame or that's not about anything like that, that's just about, you know, trying to just be respectful of, um, you know, the people's privacy using stuff like that, but it is kind of funny. Yeah, I actually did have that thought, what's it going to be like now in the streets? Am I going to be getting the thing,

you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yes, you're going to be building the thing. If I do, yeah, it's going to say, so you're saying there's a chance that for the listing audience, Charlie reveals in the book that he while on drugs had, so a couple of interludes crossing over to the other side is not declaring that he's gay or buyer anything else, but is just being honest about

“his life intoxicated and high, and that's why I say something. Some will see a window. That's all right,”

that's flattering. I mean, what the hell, right? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's one moment in a very long life, and I said something the other day that, um, then I guess I just wanted to have just a little bit more in common with, uh, with, with Richard prior and Marlon Brando and, um, yeah, anger. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's pretty good company. That's some Hall of Famers, right there, you know, but it does have to be a relief. You, you know, you're right about how you

paid people blackmail money to keep that secret. Yeah, yeah. You, you, you came out a long time ago as HIV positive, you had to pay people to keep that secret. I mean, this is a lot to be laboring

under. It's exhausting, it's exhausting, and to always, anytime the phone rings, or you see an email

from a lawyer or just or a manager that always talks to that lawyer, and it's just, it just got to

“the point of this, you know, if, if this is prison, the only thing that's missing, it's a, the bars”

and the guards, you know, um, but, uh, but yeah, and, and, and, you know, it's talking to a million,

stuff is, you know, is out there, and, and like that, and I said, well, you know, I got to be honest,

man, it's, uh, it feels a lot better. You know, out there, then it did, uh, in here for so long, and so, um, and, and the other thing is, like, don't put something in a book, and in a dock that come out, you know, a day apart, unless you're going to be willing enough, uh, courageous enough, open enough to discuss those things, you know, because I did the GMA piece. I did the GMA piece,

“with the stray hammers, I think went pretty good, right? Yeah. And then the, one of the producers”

came up and said, wow, that was, that was so courageous, and you just, you didn't, you didn't, don't, and then I said, well, yeah, I already wrote about it and spoke about it and put it, and she said, oh, no, no, you, you'd be amazed how many people put stuff in a book, and then when it comes to, comes time to, to, to, you know, promoted or discuss it or whatever, they, they completely

lose their minds. They, they, they, they just want to run and hide, because I guess they never, or they

didn't see the connection between, like, okay, it goes here, and then, you know, and then does that, you're, you're still, you know, it's, you're responsible for all of it. And so, sometimes she was an annoying publicist who says, don't ask about this. Meanwhile, the principle is fine asking about it. So oftentimes, it's a function of that, having worked on the today show. I know

“that the PR people can be absolutely awful and not. They're telling you, you know, that's”

something like, like, like, you've just read it in the book, and then you want to tell them, but it's really, like, just how I know this. I know this because he wrote it. Like, he told me,

I didn't pull it out of the ether, right? So, yeah. Some are awful. I mean, that, that was actually

one of the questions I had for you. I was on Fox News in 2011 when you had the two and a half men cancellation and the winning, and, like, the super torqued up, Charlie, with all the testosterone, you write about, like, it was at something like 4,000, which is, I don't know what numbers supposed to be normal, but it's, like, two digits, not three and not four. I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. I'm different. I just have a different constitution. I have a different brain.

I have a different heart. I have a different, you know, I get tired of blood, man. You don't worry that you're going to die when you take that many drugs. Dines were full. So, you got fire from two and a half men, and you went on this, like, winning tour. And what I see in the documentary really jumped out of me, which was, this is my opinion, totally douchebag managers who exploited you. The troubled actor is taking his bizarre behavior out on the road for Charlie Sheen live,

“my violent torpedo of truth. I think what your name is synonymous and I don't want this in a negative”

way, it's trouble. And I think, like, torpedoes of truth is so brilliant, because it's, like, it just sounds exciting. Who are, like, get out there, go out of the stage, make money. They want to see you. Meanwhile, you were in crisis. So it's kind of irritating as a fan and a viewer to see that happen. How do you see the role of those along with the professional people? In, in, in, in, in the middle of that. Oh, yeah. Chaos. Yeah. I was, it's kind of a double that's for because I was

really hard to control. I, I had found some different level of, I don't know what, there was just some other energy of some other possession or just some just thing that that I just needed to stay attached to and I can't even really describe it. It was, I don't want to say it was out of body, because then you're kind of like not owning it. I, I knew what was going on. I just didn't want it to stop and that's the part I can't really explain when I look back on that stuff. It's like,

dude, like, okay, maybe after the interview, you'd be, issue a statement or you'd just like, go you just disappear somewhere for a month or just, but to keep that thing going, it's just like, that's the part just the energy that required. I don't have that kind of stamina anymore. But as far as the people that, um, that I guess you could say, we're more complicit than not, it does take two to tango and I sang the book that, in this case, I felt like, um, it felt

more like 2000, but, um, but I also specifically write a line about, um, in the year sense, I've, I've combed through, um, the mental health manual and I still can't find, um, vile exploitation as a treatment protocol. So that is, that is a quote from the book. So yeah, I am going to, I'm going to point some of that stuff out. And then when I talk about Mark Burg,

and, and I, and I wish he would have had a, um, a better key or, or a stronger lock, um, or,

“or something that, that, or lock that looked more like, um, um, a comfy chair and a, and a, and a,”

and a willing ear, you know, it's like I, I just think there could have been a moment in the middle of all that when coming, someone could have just said, all right, we're going to, you know, part, you know, we're putting the, putting the chairs on the table, putting the lights on, the part is over. This guy's coming with us. And, and, and it could have, it could have been, could have been interrupted, you know, um, but then suddenly there's this idea for a tour, you know,

and I, and I, and I'm like, what would that even, what does that mean? I'm not a, that I,

did I start a band, I can't remember forming? Is there some part of me, like, what are we,

because touring for me is all, it could only be a musician or like a really popular comedian, right? And there was nothing funny about my act at that point, right? But, um, but yeah, and then live nation gets involved and I go visit them and suddenly, you know, hold them a shuddy to a

“chair and crowd and they're booking dates, you know, which is why in the book, the only thing that”

I describe on that tour is that is that I don't want to give it away, um, but is that incident that takes place in the bathroom, you know, and I think just symbolically that, um, that's, that's really how I felt about about that whole, that whole system, you know. I watched it, I just thought,

I watched it when it happened as a newswoman and I was horrified at how you were being exploited

it was obvious you were in crisis. I felt the same about Kanye. I did not interview Kanye when he was going on in his recent media tour because I could see the guy was in the middle of what appeared to be a bipolar episode. I did not pile on when that mayor up in Canada was going through, like, I just don't like it when news people, I think news people too have responsibility, not to have you on when you're in that state and pretend that you're okay or that this isn't

okay interview to be doing because this is a compromised person who needs help, not to be exploited for cleft, it's very fucking annoying as a newsperson to watch. Yeah, no, and that's, that's, that's great to hear, um, at least there's, there's, there's one of you, there's, um, no, there's others, I'm sure, but, um, even the Andrea Canny Noodle, right? She's terrific and I'm a fan and I, you know, she does great work. She was with ABC at the time and I put the responsibility on ABC. Yeah,

but I was working out in a gym and I saw her on a, on a monitor, like up in the corner of the room with the sound off and I knew this interview was coming and I didn't know what the hell I was going to turn into, but I was, I was, I was with somebody and I said, hey, what about her? She looks pretty smart. She looks like she knows what she's doing. Maybe she'll do the interview. I mean, literally it was like that, no research, nothing, didn't know her backstory, so she gets just

yanked into this thing, you know, and, and then, um, I, I, yeah, she, she was like, just front and center for that thing, you know? She was like, putting on the seat belt to do

“that interview. So, exactly. Yeah. I want to talk about sobriety because I think it's,”

sure, kind of interesting how to happen for you, but before I get to that, the hero in this story after you for rescuing yourself from your addictions, or at least from the active addiction, is your dad. And I just, like, to me, I have such empathy for him because Charlie, I will tell you that I lost my sister at age 58 two years ago, a couple years ago. And thank you. And she, she was an addict and she had a lifetime of similar problems with her. It started as a prescription pill

that she was given. And like when I saw the number of times your dad intervened and tried so hard, sometimes he did the right thing, sometimes it was questionable. What he did, but her I saw was this extremely loving father who really wanted you to stop doing drugs, who desperately wanted you to get better and didn't totally know how to stop it. And then I saw he didn't participate in the documentary and needed a demelio. And I know you say it's because they watched the rough and they said,

you got it all covered, but I did matter. Is that the full story? Or do you think there's like a lingering resentment at all there? Because I certainly think in my family having an addict is like having a nuclear bomb go off in your nuclear family. And there can be anything. Interesting.

with them watching both of their reactions to the rough cut. And they, they couldn't have been

more excited or passionate about it or celebrating it more. And Dan was just like, I'm in this. I'm already in this. Start to finish. And Amelia was like, geez, I don't know what I could possibly contribute beyond what Charlie's already doing. And I just, I genuinely think like, they didn't want to get in the way or try to tell my stories through their POV. Even though that's sometimes, you know, a, that's part of how documentaries get to different parts of stories. And that's

“a, that's a device that they do lean into. But no, I, I, because I think, you know, we started”

this about two years ago. So I was, I was, you know, by then, at that point, clean, almost six

years. And so they knew that, that this, that, that I wasn't, you know, I was committed to this thing.

And so you guys are good. So like you feel legitimately, like you've made a men's with them. And you're in a good way. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm only when I'm texting all day. He'll, he'll read something about the dog or the blog and he'll send it to me. And then, and we just had a terrific piece come out. He interviewed me for interview magazine. And so, and then they just print the transcript of our of our Zoom call. Even though we live a block from each other, we did it on Zoom,

you know, and it, and it dropped today. And some of it is hysterical. And anybody that's like, and I'm not saying, but like anybody that might be questioning that were on the answer, there's a thing or whatever. It's, you read this piece and you can see like two guys that are, they're still a couple 12 year olds, like talking about jaws, you know. And it's, it's sort of wonderful piece. Part of what's so great about the movie, the documentary, aka Charlie Sheen, is the super rate film

that you guys took of each other when you were kids. And then we're going to talk about LA is interesting too. It makes it sound like a city in which you might actually raise a family back in the day in the 70s and late 60s. Yeah. Yeah. It used to be, it used to be more rural.

“You're describing. And that's why you're your dad and your mom chose to raise their family there.”

But you guys with the super rate videos like pretend acting, like trying to be actors like you're dad and you were getting good at like the destins and the shoot it shouldn't shouldn't up scenes. It was like pretty well done. Thank you. Thank you. We were, we were, we were front, we're watching him do it, you know, in his roles on his sets, sometimes all over the world. There'd even be days and this isn't in the dock where I'd be with Chris Pan and I'd be messing

around with a cap gun or a starter pistol or something and dad would be watching. And he'd be like, you know, doing a light workout just over in the other part of the yard or getting some

son or whatever. And there was one day when he said, hey guys, guys, hold on a second, hold on a second.

He says, all right, if you guys are going to do it, let me, let me show you how it's going to look better. And now I got this, this little cap gunner, their starter pistol with, you know, blanks and he says, all right Charlie, whenever you want, I'm going to be folding, I'm going to be folding this towel. You shoot me and I'll show you how a guy would respond, you know, more realistically getting shot. He's in a, he's pretty pissed that I share this, but it's really a cool, cool memory

in a moment. It's not in the dock, it's not in the book, but it's right here. And now, and I turn on him and I fired a shot and he took it. And he, it wasn't like this super crazy five-man dramatic death. He just buckled and then right on his back and Chris and I were just like, oh my gosh, okay, so now we had a template to work from. Now we had like a real pro who'd been shot on film like a thousand times showing us like this is this is going to up your game.

A lot of parents will sit down with their kids and help them with their homework. My dad was showing us like how to take a bullet, how to get shot and it's quite helpful. Pretty wild. Here's how it's for you. Who is the better actor, Charlie Sheen, Martin Sheen,

“or Emilio Estepas? Wow, gosh, I think dad's the best dramatic actor of the three of us.”

I think I may have a slight edge in the comedy department, and I think Emilio is more comfortable than pop and myself with romantic stuff. I can see that. Yeah, but I didn't answer your question

Hopefully pop, because you don't say it. I mean, he's yeah, but I think there's things that he can

“do that Emilio and I can't stuff Emilio can do that pop and I can't and then finish that”

try and with the other two that can't. Yep, you know, the scene, of course, in Wall Street with you and your dad. And I told you not to get into that wreck in the first place. You could have been a doctor or a lawyer. You write about you write as follows. There are a few moments with dad in that film that had flashes of promise from my end. He was his usual fabulous self, and I was doing whatever I could to not vanish on screen next to him. I mean, how special was it that you had that feeling about him and

working with him? And in part, that was portrayed in the relationship between Bud Fox and his dad

in the movie itself. Right, right, right. No, it was it was it was an incredible experience.

I, you know, little little pieces of regret throughout that, then I could have been more present that I could have been just more, more dialed in, more professional. I think what's what's I think covered nicely in the book is that, you know, Platoon is still burning down the box office when when we start Wall Street. And so there was like a lot of distraction. I wanted the party to keep going. And I think that I mentioned something about just wanting to be, you know, playfully

drunk on a fancy boat and tropical waters with beautiful women. You know, not like working again and stuff like that. So there was a lot of distractions doing that. So some of the stuff with Dan, that, and he was well aware of it. And so he, he was, I think just hoping for a more focused

“me. And that's why I talk about doing my best and not vanish on screen next to him, but I talent-wise, but”

also just, you know, where, where, where, where my head was at, you know. And speaking of Wall Street is a time? It's time. Okay, you know what, I think we should, let's play SOT 51. This is a kid calls me 59 days in a row. It wants to be a player. A lot of be a picture of you the dictionary and a persistent story. I just want to let you know, Mr. Gecker, that I've

run all about you and why you business. And I think you're an incredible genius. I've always dreamed

of one thing, and that's to do business with a man like you. But from you with Jackson Steinham, the going places, a junk bond apartment, you're the financing on that Jansson investment. Yeah, yeah, working on some other interesting stuff. Cosmetic company by any chance. What are you 12 man? The deal team has to know. I can't tell you that, Mr. Gecker. Great stuff. Is it true you don't look back fondly on that film that you've only watched it twice?

I, I like that scene. Yeah, what's not to light? I mean, there's, there's, there's a lot going on there. There's some charm, there's some heart, there's some, you know? Yeah, you know what,

“maybe it's time I, I revisit this thing. You should, because I've seen it in at least 20 times.”

And it's serious. So it's such a special film. I love the character of Bud Fox. And I think it totally captures what happens to young guys on Wall Street to this day. My husband actually wrote a book called Ghosts of Manhattan. And it's all about this exact issue. And I thought you just completely portrayed it, you nailed it. And the relationship that you have with your dad in the, in the film is just the chef's kiss on top. But thank you. Thank you. The Darrell Hannah was miscast.

She was and, and she knew it. And she knew it. And she knew it. So really, I mean, she could feel it. She could feel it. And I think maybe some of the way that that she wasn't as embraced as she could be in my Oliver and in just in certain moments, you know. And I, and I do touch on some of that in the book. Oliver's, you know, we got to have the book that I, I don't want to say I go after him. But I do talk about things because I was describing these other experiences and

these other films. And I'm like, okay, you know, all this stuff can't just be like this lovey, w-flowery actor director, you know, relationship stuff. There's, you know, when it, when it got a little grumbly and a little tense, I thought that was, that was worth sharing. And, you know, I give, it's, it's not about, you know, taking him to task. It's just about like pointing out things

talking about certain actors and certain things and experiences. And so, and also, it's things and arrows. Yes, he can. And he and I haven't worked together since Wall Street. I mean,

“that shitty little cameo in the, in the, in the, in the ill-advised sequel to Wall Street, right?”

Yeah. And so, but that doesn't count. So, it's not like Oliver's banging down my door since 1987, right? So, maybe this approach gets his attention. Maybe this will get him to reach it. So, this, this will respect. All right, if your people are telling us, we got a wrap. So, I, I want to- Oh, Jesus. I know. That was just getting warm. The peer people are annoying. I'm telling you, just, you'll give me your number later. And I'll go directly to you next time. They'll love that.

Awesome. This is where I want to end it. I hope this isn't too dark for you. But you pulled, you pulled yourself with with some friendships and support out of decades of addiction. And this time, it seems to really be sticking. You're eight-year sober,

which is amazing. Thank you. And thank you. And here's, here's what I want to ask you.

So, I know you knew Matthew Perry. You, right in the book, we were both veterans of the unspeakable. Really well said. Thank you. We did a long tribute to Matthew Perry who was so talented after he died. And it was obvious that his addiction had not been totally licked. And if you don't ultimately lick it and stay off of the drugs and stay clean, it ends the same for virtually everyone. So, please don't do that to us. Please know how important you are in our culture.

And as a figure who kids look up to and people admire and want to continue applauding and cheering for for decades to come. I really hope you know we're all rooting for you

and just want nothing but good things for you. That's amazing. That is such love and compassion

in that and that is a request that I wholeheartedly have every intention of honoring because it's like you were saying. You know, drugs are undefeated. They're undefeated. It's like 20 million to zero. And I just I even writing the book, watching the dog. It's around the guy that lived it and

“survived it. And I still don't completely know how I think the why part will be revealed over time.”

And you know, and that's fine. That's not that's not up to me. But yeah, to get through that, several times. And then continue to thumb your nose at the universe. I think at that point, you're you're asking for it, you know. And it's interesting because you do talk about that Matthew, you know, is still struggling a little bit when he had to go on the tour and promote the book and do all that stuff. But I could see it. I know a lot of other people could

too. And I can also hear it when I listen to the book. I could hear just because for a guy that just had such precision with his diction and his delivery and his timing and just everything and it just it was just a just left of center and you just felt like and I read his book. I read it in a day because I've just got so deep into it and nothing else mattered and I wasn't stopping until I finished. And and I I so wanted to reach out to him and I didn't and he he died a month

later. And it was just you know. So yeah, I don't want to I don't want to do that to my to my kids.

I don't want to do that to my the rest of my family. And yeah, it if you if you get a second

third for the chance, you know, wrap your arms around it and just you know, just consider it a fricking lot of when every day. Well, maybe there's a good a better chance this time because I'll tell you I'm a little younger than you are, but not by that much. And I've referred to this as my fuck at 50s. You really don't you don't care what people think of you. You really change

“in your 50s for the better. It's one delightful thing about getting older. And I think more so”

when you're in your 60s. So I feel like you've got all that ahead of you. You've got all this goodness here. You've hopefully will meet somebody and fall in love, which is not a false God. You've already got enough money. So you don't have to chase the dollar, which is another false God. You've already proven that you can do all this shit to your body and still stay standing,

could be a thing of the past. That's fine. I think that that might be a healthy choice. I leave it

“up to you. But whatever you choose, I really hope it fulfills you from the insight and that you have”

maybe not a fucking 50s, but like a spectacular 60s in beyond because we all are rooting for you.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. That is the nicest thing ever. That is so sweet and coming from you.

“That means the world. Thank you. All right. Well, I will talk to you on the next episode”

of the Megan Kelly show where I'll be thinking of you as I say the word, "Sot 40."

That's amazing. This has been a pleasure. All right, Charlie.

“Or "Sot 60." That's right. That's not 60. Yeah. In awe of Charlie Sheen, all of us. Right on. See you soon.”

Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. (upbeat music)