The MeidasTouch Podcast
The MeidasTouch Podcast

Justin Wolfers Discusses Trump’s Damage to US Economy

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MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas is joined by Justin Wolfers of Platypus Economics to discuss the warning issued by Rupert Murdoch against Trump. Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network...

Transcript

EN

Think about the 31st of Newly.

Like so? Last call for a steuer.

Oh no, I don't know where I'm going to go.

Because it's like steuer.

Because it's like steuer, but only stress. Is that simple? Of course, everything is automatic. Steuer is long? No, simple.

No, then. Today, now I'm going to go back to the steuer. It's about the 31st of Newly. My name is Alexandra. And I'm a co-founder and I'm a member of the team.

On the way to the market, I have a family. I live in the city of Laltz. And it's been a long time since we've been together.

The world is so different.

The more I have to talk about the future, the more I love my family. And my friends, the one who said, "Look, there are some portal. "I'm going to go to the market." Then I went to the market. And that was the point. So what I could do now, of course, to me,

has now been a part of the new era. It's a part of the new era that we've been together for a long time. And it's been a part of the new era that we've been together for a long time. And it's been a part of the new era that we've been together for a long time. And it's been a part of the new era that we've been together for a long time.

And it's been a part of the new era that we've been together for a long time. And it's been a part of the new era that we've been together for a long time. This stark warnings to Donald Trump both about his catastrophic war in Iran,

as well as Donald Trump's disastrous economic policies.

And we've seen Murdoch using his op-eds to kind of escalate this against Donald Trump or to put out messages in certain areas. And then you have Donald Trump's former VP, Mike Pence, also reposting the Murdoch articles. I mean, this is what the Wall Street Journal op-ed editorial board writes about Trump's economic policies. How Trump's tariffs really work.

He hails Toyota's investments, but what about the higher costs and manufacturing job losses?

And this is Pence quoting the op-edum Wall Street Journal. The president is right that his tariffs are at work. Yeah, in destroying US jobs and raising prices, the US has lost some 75,000 manufacturing jobs since January 2025, including 25,900 in motor vehicle and parts production, separately in international affairs on a lot of state regime media,

which calls itself Fox reports, they're out there saying, why the hell do we have Steve Witkov and Jared Kushner acting like their unvoiced to the United States and that they don't know what they're doing. They're corrupt real estate people or investment people. And they know nothing about diplomacy.

And you've seen that escalate as well. Now, of course, another Murdoch properties and shows they might as well be worse than Kim Jannoon propaganda media, but it does say something to me that they are striking kind of at both areas. I mean, international affairs and then on the economic front and with Donald Trump's

out there saying, I've created so many jobs or in a golden age. We all know that's not true. I want to bring in Justin Wolfers, launched Platypus Economics with Justin Wolfers on YouTube and we'll talk about this at the end briefly. Justin and I are going to have a really big announcement next week.

It may be related to Midas Touch of Platypus, but we will see Justin's great to see. You're seeing this on the Wall Street Journal editorial pages. But then there are other Fox shows that will kind of give the Kim Jong-un dear leader doesn't make any mistake. What do you make of this moment?

Because it does seem we're in kind of just sleepwalk and we're not. It's like kind of sleepwalking into this massive economic crisis generationally. Yeah, actually, I think the generational parts are really big patterns, the part that we're not hearing enough about. But let's come back, what is it that Wall Street Journal is saying?

It's actually saying something that every economist with a pulse is saying, which is that the trade war hasn't helped. There's sort of two ways of thinking about this. Ben, one would be, could tariffs plausibly help and then another is, what about the way they've done it?

So, I don't think these tariffs have helped. Let me start there. For instance, if you put a 50% tariff on steel in aluminium, I'm in America aluminum. That raises the costs of any factory that uses steel in aluminium, but only of American factories.

If you're up in Canada, if you're in China, you don't have to pay you as tariffs

in order to get the raw materials you need to make the stuff that you need.

This is very straightforward. So look page one of the tariff handbooks as don't tariff inputs and the president has done that, egregiously, and repeatedly.

There might be a day when someone somewhere can convince me that national def...

we need this form of tariff or that, but that's not what we've got.

And that gets the second point, even if you could make the case for some of these tariffs,

the way they've done it, the on again, off again, nature of the tariffs, the we've got people in Canada who are not going to import wine from the United States, in fact, all of Canada, basically. They're all elbows up. Why is that?

Because the president said, and he'd invade Canada, and people take that very seriously. From the perspective of Americans, we gain nothing, and then we lost trade with Canada. So that hurt, and it's this idea that it's not just that we have tariffs, we have uniquely

incompetent tariffs, never in the history of American trade policy, we had tariffs changes

frequently, never if they've been as poorly thought out, never if they've been as easily negotiated one-on-one with the White House. And so I'm not at all surprised to see the Wall Street Journal coming out vehemently against this. It's very hard to be conservative and to be pro-tariff, in fact it's quite funny sometimes

to get TV producers who call me and they say, "I want someone who's not immediate to defend Trump's tariffs." And if they could only find that person that person will be on TV all day every day. I want to talk about the generational piece, you and I spoke about six months ago, we spoke other times too, but this is where you challenged our audience, and you told people,

"I want you to think more in terms of the scope and damage that Trump is doing, not just

in a year or a few years, but in decades to come, and that's how economists map this out

as well. Sure there is the short-term pain, and it's really making people suffer, compounding on a daily basis. But I know in this dystopian reality TV show, presidency, the arc that Donald Trump likes to have to his various schemes often start in end in single days, and Iran called, and

he makes up these fictitious, if they called me, we're good, we're off, Iran, Iran, and then he brings in the new days kind of events. But the damage that is being caused to the United States, to the stability, to the dollar, to our markets, to the systemic shield that once made the United States, the great place for investment, that that is being eroded, and sure, the problem with the liquidation or

Trump's liberation day against the world, that may not show up in May, like, "Oh, my God." But guess what? It does start to show up as you start looking in 2026 and 2027, and you start to see that inflation chart, and you start to see all these charts look exactly like the economists we're saying.

But what you had to fight, and I want to hear from you again, is everybody saying, look, these economists were wrong because three weeks after it, it didn't happen like all of a sudden cause and effect.

Talk to us about that just, yeah, look, the most important factor in economics is something

that too much of the business media misses, which is what really matters is how much we're growing decade to decade rather than now we're going to have a recession tomorrow

and the ups and downs in June versus your live versus August, right?

You'll see any number of clips on next month, next quarter. I get very few people who want to talk to me about next year, but actually what really matters is next decade and the decade after that. And I really do want folks at home to just think hard and internalize that this is not a political statement, it's an economic statement.

And I want to give you a way, let me tell you a story that gives you a way of trying to hold these ideas central. Go back 150 years and look around the world at what were the world's richest countries and I want to point to two of them. One of them was Argentina, which like, and the other was, let's talk about the United

States. Both of these were intensely resource rich countries among the very richest countries in the world. And if you and I went back to 80 and 50 and we were placing bets on which country was going to be successful over the next one or two centuries, you know, you might have made a pretty

good case that would be Argentina. But what happened following that was sort of a deep undermining of the institutions that the foundations of economic growth, the an undermining of democracy, various shifts towards autocracy, and you know, Argentina turned out to be an awful melodrama and 150 years later, Argentina's a middle-income country and the United States is enormously richer.

And so I feel an almost gratitude that we developed a set of market institutions, a set of legal institutions, a set of democratic institutions, that more or less say if you want

To succeed in America, the way to do it is to, you know, help us build a bigg...

And the problem when you don't have the rule of law and you have autocracy and you have corruption is the way to get ahead is to steal the next blocks slice of pie instead. And once you see this difference between Argentina and the United States have it like one or two hundred years you can't unsee it. And this lesson that what you want is an economy where the incentives to grow the pie,

you know, invent a new iPhone that takes technology versus steal another block, slice the pie. And that's the point at which you suddenly look at our current moment in your gas. At a cultural level, this is a White House that feels like there's a lot of stealing

and pie going on, there's a level of corruption that I think is utterly staggering.

There's a sense of crony capitalism where the way for businesses to get ahead today is not

to invent a better product, but instead to be first in line at Mara Lago or for a country

to get ahead is not to be a more reliable ally but to donate a modestly good jet that sometimes works. And so those are really the foundations of our prosperity and if you think that we're at a moment now, I think it is a point of inflection. I don't think we're too far down the road, I'm actually still an optimist, but we might

be at a point of inflection where one path sends us down the Argentinian road and the other centres to the American road and once you understand that, you realize how meaningless many of the day to day debates that we have are, you know, was gross domestic product up last quarter to next quarter, it's that we won't develop in the ways in which we ought to.

And so what we'll see in the future, it's not that we'll see something, it's there'll be an absence, there'll be inventions that don't occur, there'll be forms of leadership that the US simply doesn't demonstrate and as a result, there'll be fewer opportunities for our kids. You know, Justin though, when we look at the charts though from, you know, even the snapshot

from April to right now and looking where these chart, whether you look at jobs, you know, as stated in the Wall Street Journal article, whether you look at inflation, which continues to, you know, look, it's not going up month over month at 1% or 1.5%, you know, you know, that's, you know, but it is going up month over month, 0.3, 0.2, 0.4, that all then continues to add up and then you look back at it and you're like, we're approaching 5% year over,

I mean, year over year, we're looking like 5.5.2 and then what seems to happen though is we hit these markers, you know, you'll get the report though that then comes in that day and then on corporate media or whatever, it hits like, oh my God, where this number come from, there's like, right there, it's been going that direction, that number shouldn't come, like, yes, 4 is around number, so that was like a big one, 5 is around number,

but it's clearly heading in that direction, so how, how do you kind of process that before we, you know, before we go? Yeah.

I think that sort of, I think you're asking me a meta question, they've been and I love

that, so I never get asked meta questions and it gets to what I like to do, which is I'd

like to teach the world economics and so the facts at home, you're going to be ingesting all of this news and I want you first of all to understand that now economist is particularly upset that last month's number was a little bit up or a little bit down, what we're always, our deepest sense of the world is that the economy tends to move somewhat smoothly and what happens is data are noisy and so we're sailing through fog and every now and then we get

a glimpse of the future, but you can't tell whether what you just saw was an odd shaped cloud or a real storm cloud on the horizon and so you've got to slowly adjust as new information comes in and so often you'll see news anchors are the most excited by the news and economists are the least excited because we're just trying to guide and navigate it as sort of slower rate.

And I think the most important skill I want, basically, with my student time for seismic,

I hope people at home can take seriously is to think about the bigger picture step back. Remember the story of our economy is not a story of weeks and months, it's a story of years and decades and what are we seeing and how does this change that bigger picture?

It will never be quite as dramatic as a 29 year old TV producer might want it to be, but

you'll have a deeper sense of it and I think this is your point then you'll then be able to really spot what the dangers are if you're panning back away from the statistical noise to the underlying reality of the economy. What everybody to go and subscribe to Platypus Economics as soon as this video is over, that's Justin's YouTube page and he's building that out to really make economics accessible

Interesting and it's such an important topic and you've all seen Justin on th...

news networks and I will say this, Justin and I have a big announcement coming up early

next week on Monday, so secret but it may involve more of me and Justin to get there.

But it might not, no one knows, that's the mystery of it all.

Exactly.

Everybody go check out Platypus and go subscribe to our channel here as well, let's get

to 7 million subscribers.

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