Hey, it's Renmel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
I am so excited to talk to you today, because today, we're doing something super cool.
“My husband, Christopher Robbins is here.”
Hi, Chris. In the house, and we are reflecting on 30 years of marriage, I can't believe we've been together for over 30 years, and it feels like this giant view of growing up, getting jobs, getting fired from jobs, raising kids, paying bills, getting into debt, getting out of debt, moving, fighting, struggling, making up, fighting with each other, growing apart, finding our way back
to each other, trying to figure out how to love ourselves. Well, we're going to unpack this, because through all the resentment, the struggles, the ups, the downs, you and I over the course of 30 years, oh, we are going to grow. That's a first that you're crying before me.
We've always found our way back to each other.
And so today, oh, God, he's growing too. Okay, guess we're going to go to commercial, quickly. Today, you and I are going to talk about the three lessons that we've learned, the hard way. Lessons we wish somebody would have taught us decades ago. That truly make your relationship meaningful and lasting.
“And so, since I'm starting to cry, I think we better take a beat and then we'll start the episode.”
How do you feel? Feeling great. Thanks for having me on. I can't imagine who else I do my 30th wedding anniversary episode.
I guess our couple's therapist.
Thank God for him. Hey, it's your friend, Mel and my husband, Christopher Robbins. Welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am absolutely thrilled that you're here for a once and a lifetime conversation, because today, my husband and I are talking and reflecting on our 30th wedding anniversary.
And this is only going to happen once, not because we're breaking up, but because like you only have your 30th wedding anniversary once. And it's such an honor to be together with you to spend this time with you if you're new here. Or if maybe somebody you're in a relationship with sent you this episode, or they've trapped you in a car with them right now and you're listening.
And this is their form of therapy or date. Welcome. I've done that to my husband too. Welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast family. You are going to love this conversation.
Because today my husband, Chris and I are celebrating our 30th wedding anniversary with you. And we're going to share three lessons that we have learned over the last three decades. These are lessons that I wish somebody had just phoned up for us when we got married 30 years ago. We learned this stuff the hard way. It explains so much about the years of our life, Chris, where we were really struggling.
It also explains the roadmap for how you find your way back to the person that you fell in love with. And so I'm super excited about this. Welcome to the podcast, Chris. Thanks. Thanks for having me.
I'm happy to be here. And I'm looking forward to these little lessons because they do help crystallize all that we did go through. Yeah, yeah. Boy, we went through a lot. Yes, we have.
It's impossible to be in a long-term relationship and not experience so many ups and downs. And what is 30 years feel like for you? Like when you really think about 30 years going by and if you're brand new to the show, you know, I should just say that we also have three kids. They're 27, 26 and 21 years old and we have been through so many ups and downs and been in and out
of financial crisis and we've both been fired from jobs and struggled and had moments where we feel lost. We've had kids that have struggled. We've navigated your father dying like just 30 years of your life. You navigate a lot when you think about the fact that we've been married for 30 years.
What comes to mind for you, Chris?
“Honestly, the visual of like a flipbook where you flip it through and it's like”
and all of those scenes that in the moment feel so acute, so profound, either whether you're related or were feeling on top or feeling at the bottom,
They all are meaningful and the speed at which they have passed is quite rema...
honestly to think that it's been 30 years is a bit jaw dropping. You know, when you first love, you have this assumption because of all the fabulous love chemicals that's a technical term I just made up that are flooding through your body and the
attraction that you kind of gaslight yourself into thinking, oh, it's always going to be like this.
And if there's one thing that we've learned the hard way and everybody learns in life is that things are always changing and that the true test of your relationship is not how you are together when things are good. I mean, you could be with a not great person in a not great relationship, but if things are going really well, you don't really have to lean on the relationship. The true test is what happens when things fall apart. When you lose the job, when a parent dies,
when a child is sick, when the pressure hits, when the bank account is bouncing, when life makes you hard and life does that. I'm already crying. I don't know because I'm just thinking about how many freaking hard periods of our life we've had. And one of the things that I really struggled with in our relationship is how often when life hardened me, I brought that edge into our relationship. And if you're going to go to the distance with somebody, it's really because
you have picked somebody that you can do the difficult things with, that you can struggle with, that you can lean on. And when I look back, one of the biggest lessons that I've learned and I'm going
to explain it first in my words and then I'm going to share the way one of the incredible relationship
experts summed it up is when life got hard, I became very hard on you. When life really started
“to beat me up, I started to take it out on you. And I think that's an extremely common mistake”
that people make. And if you stop and reflect and think about your own relationship, how often you've blamed stress of the day, in fact, I just did the same on how emotional or how volatile or how just mean you might be to the person that you love. And the first lesson that I really learned that is both the reason why relationships end and it's also the simple lesson that brings you back to the person you fell in love with. And it's this, you're my favorite person. That is the best
relationship advice I have ever heard, forwards, you're my favorite person. And so the first takeaway for me is if you're in a relationship, can you say that about the person that you're with? Because if
you fundamentally have never felt like this is your favorite person, then you're in the wrong
relationship. And if you're going through a very rough time, what I love about these four words, your my favorite person is this is the like lifeline. It's like a torope that you can grab on
“to to pull you back to what is still true because even when life is hard, that person that you”
fell in love with is still in there. And I also love this question because you not only ask yourself your my favorite person is Chris my favorite person. Of course, I just hate my life right now, but he's still my favorite person. And then you ask yourself the second layer which is am I treating him like my favorite person? No, that's kind of where the rubber meets the road. I think for me, because when I think about when we first met, absolutely you were my favorite,
all the way up until, in fact, after we got married, which was a couple years later, but in that time frame, you were my favorite every moment of every day because, in to some extent, we really had hit anything hard. We had no concept of how we might harden or how we might behave in those
“tough times, which I think is what makes relationships challenging because in the early days,”
it is a honeymoon period as they call it and everybody's everybody's favorite until it hits the fan. I know the moment that you know what hit it fan and you started going from my favorite person to not my favorite person to somebody that I was mad at and it was when we were in our 20s
We had met in New York City and we were early in our careers and you decided ...
change and then you didn't like that and then you decided to launch a business and it didn't
do well and then you decided to scramble and get a job and there was a point where we were so struggling with paying our bills. I was a public defender working for Legal Aid. You had not had a job for a while. Do you remember this? We were talking about moving in with your parents as a new married couple and we were going to have to move into like the basement walkout part of their like retirement house.
“I don't actually remember that but it's funny that you bring this up because when you asked”
me to think about a moment in time, that's about the same time frame that I thought about myself.
Both in the context of me also beginning to hate on myself but also recognizing that that's
when I stopped listening to you because no, no it had nothing to do with you. I was so focused on me and what I thought I should be achieving or producing that you barely even existed and so I really wasn't listening to you or your needs or your interests and so anyway when I was thinking about that incident that was really where things started to unwind a little bit when I said hey you know what I want to go get my MBA and I want to do it in Boston and I want to move
out in New York City and you said are you kidding me like I love my job. This is great. Why are we
“leaving and you were miserable when we moved up there and honestly in the moment I was so blind”
to what I thought I should have been doing for you that I was oblivious to the fact that
you were even unhappy with the idea. Wow you've never even brought this up in therapy before.
No but you prompt to me to think about this and you know what's crazy about this Chris is that I always called you stoic. I called you a thinker. I called you a slow processor when I was really annoyed with you. I just sort of put your sequestering into a box that was about you and I had no idea that you tuned me out and what happens when that starts to happen is for somebody like me I just get louder because then I feel alone and unsafe and for somebody like you you just sequester
more into your head. Like I think that there was like what a full decade where we were like this. Yeah. Any longer? No it sounds about right. Anyway 10 years but that's enough to cause enough damage.
“I mean and it did. And you know the thing that's important about this is this is I think a period”
of our marriage that you would describe as we were just roommates. We would say that we do logistics really well. So we can get the kids where they need to go. We can get the dogs fed. We can get the groceries on the table. We can get. We can show up at the holiday celebration. We can check the boxes. We can't think the roommate phase said in that early because we were beginning to have kids and so we were learning a new challenge of being parents to newborns. And so the roommate thing didn't quite
settle in until I think once all three or at least two had arrived and then it was and then the sequestering began for sure. Well I think we're I'm kind of using a word maybe that doesn't resonate. It felt like logistics and life took over and our connection. These these four words your my favorite person stopped being the central organizing principle of our marriage. And I truly believe that these four words as a lesson and a philosophy that you can anchor yourself to immediately reveals whether
or not the connection is afraid because if you don't feel that way about your partner and you want instead that's a sign that life has hardened you and you're in this phase where you've pulled a part and being able to then go how do I start treating this person like my favorite person again even if things have gone down. Even if there are still a lot of struggles. Even if we are fighting about money which we did for decades absolute decades but I want to play this moment from
the Mel Robin's podcast when a world-renowned divorce attorney James Sexton said those four words
On the show.
potentially the most beautiful words you could say to someone and mean or have someone say to you
“and know their true and that is you're my favorite person like what could be more beautiful than”
being told and knowing like when this person says it they mean it you're my favorite person and to say to someone back yeah you're my favorite person like what would be better in the world than having that you know and so I like to think about kind of the end of things and then reverse engineer and to me like at the end of your life if you could look at another person and say you helped me become the most authentic version of myself and you're still my favorite person
that's the greatest wedding toast you could ever have like that's the greatest blessing you
“could have in your life and I think it'd be the greatest asset you could have in your life.”
Do you want to react to that? I think you just said that's the greatest wedding toast you could have and that's my point is that when I boil down what has you be my favorite person
it was and it does make me cry because I can say that in those first few days when we met
you brought out the authenticity in me. I felt almost like somebody had unlocked the real me and that like the fake me was had gone away and that freedom I felt was definitely one of those things that made me feel like you were my favorite what's interesting about that though is your point about hardening and then you get into let's now call it 30 years where we're going through the ups and the downs and the twists and
the turns and that's where the hard work is I think is being able to wake up and say this is originally why this person was my favorite and trying to presence that in the face of
“the tough stuff that's going on. Well I think that's why the tough periods are so painful”
because when you fall in love and you fall in love with somebody who is truly your favorite person they are your favorite person because of how being with them makes you feel about you and that's why it's so painful when your favorite person turns on you and you start to feel as if either they are no longer your favorite person because of things they've done or because the world is just pressure testing you and you're now bringing it to the relationship and taking it out
on them or something has happened with you and you're no longer treating this person that you once treated as your favorite person you don't treat them that way anymore and one of the reasons why I was so struck by this advice that James Sexton shared on the Melramin's podcast because it kind of strikes who is odd why on earth would you get relationship advice from a world-renowned
divorce attorney and he basically said because who do you take a car to to fix it on mechanic
because a mechanic has seen everything break in a car so a mechanic can spot the signs that things are headed towards a serious thing they can head this can be fixed this can't be fixed this is a total wreckage and one of the things that James also shared that I would love to share with you is the surest indicator of a divorce because it does tie to this first lesson you're my favorite person so let's hear James Sexton reflecting on that
like I often tell people to me the surest indicator of a divorce is not anything anyone says it's a sound and it's this sound it's just that like like when the other person's talking and there's just this like like what oh yeah what it what yeah okay like why are you bothering me with
What you're saying or that like kind of eye rolling like it's just those subt...
disrespects it's the tone it's the body language like that's a huge piece is so I would when you're
“looking at signs look at how you physically relate to each other I mean you've seen couples I'm”
sure where it's like why are they even when they touch each other it's like you know when you're first together like you touch your skin and it's like an electric bolt through you off like oh my god this person touched me this like oh my god our legs touched like it's just that I mean and thank god
that passes or we just never get anything done you know but it's supposed to sort of pass and
become like still something comfortable and connected because all that person maybe you don't like holding hands that's okay but maybe they're trying to connect with you yeah so do you want to connect with them like and if it's that I don't like sweaty hands okay so put your arm around me like you know lean in and do something like like meet each other halfway there's a lot of these little tiny physical and verbal disconnections I can immediately think of like five couples right now
okay you Chris like like the I roll your bothering me and I was that way with you for probably a decade not all the time but I threw that at you that discuracy that kind of I'm sorry thanks for saying that I felt it
“I mean I think I could say the same that I had those things certainly on you as well”
but I think the difference between us is that I internalize things way more than you ever did like you would lash out you your your reaction to these things would be external whereas my reaction would be quite internal that's not to say that I wasn't or you know or whatever those noises were that were going on under my breath but half the time they were aimed at myself more than they were at you which I think is the thing that compounded your either anger
distrust or whatever it was towards me yeah because when you and silent and I'm lashing out because I'm like sad or upset or scared or whatever and anger is the fastest like valve and then you
“go quiet I feel even more disconnected correct really what you needed was a hug and I'm running”
in the opposite direction which I don't blame you for yeah but still you know when you talk about
meeting people where they are that wasn't always going down I want to give you as you're listening
or watching a very real application of how you start to apply this first lesson your my favorite person this is both a test of are you with the right person because if you've never felt that way about the person you're not with the right person it's also a way for you to just take the temperature of your relationship what it was what's carry on I'm just oh I thought you're right to cry I was about to but that's because I'm thinking about all the moments in our life
they're they're racing by in my head right now there were a lot of them and there were so many
like even during the crappy decade like there were so many incredible joyful like it's like
violent ups and downs that we experienced and the thing that that you can do to start to apply this and we are going to get into the deeper issues what if the person has done something and you're you resent them for it what if somebody really hurt you and you can't let go of the grudge we're going to talk about that in a minute but I want to give you something that Chris does that I want you to steal it is free and I will tell you right now that you can use a posted note to make your relationship
better starting today because writing notes and hiding notes to the person you're in a relationship with is the single coolest and fastest way to start to recreate a connection and Chris I swear to Chris has been hiding notes in my wallet look at how old this one is it says me again just thinking about how much I love you look how old this thing is and he doesn't tell me he just pops it in something you have hidden this one he hid this post it no mal I love you thank you for loving me he
had that post it no in my freaking pill case I was on a trip and I opened this sucker up you know to
Take all the things at all the experts tell us we need to take in order to li...
be energized and healthy and all that stuff and there it is and when you see a note like that oh my gosh here's another one did I mention how much I love you look at how old these things are here's another one hi there look it's my bursting heart oh my god you kind of or here's another one like they're literally all over the place he's been doing this for years a pop open my glasses did you know how much I love you when I get one of these notes I feel like your favorite person and you
immediately become mine and it reminds me of our connection does it solve the massive problems that we may be facing no does it remove the financial debt that is crushing us no does it erase the issues that our kids may be struggling with that are causing us to argue over what to do about no but in that moment that singular note is your way to use your my favorite person in a busy life and it's free you could leave it like I leave it on your desk when you go and
“lead your soul your degree retreats like that's how you have infiltrated and created a connection”
with me that no matter where I am when I find one of these things I'm like oh my god he's he thought about me he loves me he stuck that in there knowing I would find oh my god he's my favorite person I didn't realize that the notes you sometimes leave on my own desk were inspired by my notes that's cool of course you were guys those feels so good when I come back you just tucked one in to the credit card thing that I don't think I've ever found holy cow I wonder how long this
has been in here this is from an Omni hotel in resort somewhere that you were I guess I don't know
I love you that was right in the little critic urge slot I've never even seen that one that's an
“old one I can't remember the last time we were at an Omni so yeah this is an old one wow you do that”
with flowers what do you mean for me do you even like flowers well I do what I do so I do like flowers but I mostly love them because I get to live I carelessly through the love you have for flowers and it's a little so it explain what I do so that everybody can steal this well you just have such a love of flowers and you come into my office when I'm not there and you put one little flower whichever your favorite of the day is and slide it into a tiny little face or however you
like to present it and you leave it right on my desk and then I come back and there's you it's not even the flower I just see you and it's funny because that's another thing that makes you my favorite
person not just the flower but when we first met also makes me cry first date walking down the side walk
New York City we're in mid conversation after dinner can you remember what we're talking about and you took off running and I thought what the hell is this woman doing when I caught up to you
“you've got a leaf in the palm of your hand shaped like a heart it was a yucca tree I think”
ginko tree oh ginko tree see I don't even know what's happening and you were jumping for joy as if the good humor truck just showed up like you were so excited about this heart shaped leaf and this tree and how is your favorite I mean talk about authenticity and sort of that joy to be that I felt from you so when you put a little tiny flower on my desk that brings me right back to your own love affair with flowers but makes me feel like I'm your favorite
amazing aren't we supposed to take a break or something actually yes I was just so kind of in the
moment with you that I forgot about that part thank you all right don't go anywhere when we come back we're gonna share more of these lessons from 30 years of marriage you're not gonna want to miss the next one and I'm sure there's somebody that you're thinking about this conversation is an extraordinary gift that I hope you will share with the people in your life that you love and don't go anywhere because you're gonna love what we will be digging in two next stay with us welcome back at your
Friend Mel and Chris thanks for having me I'm so thrilled you said yes we are...
from our 30 year marriage we're celebrating 30 years this year and these are three lessons we wish
somebody would have shared with us when we first met what am I to difference well I just
jump right back in so that's the first lesson you're my favorite person and those are two simple ways that you can start to apply it and that brings me to the second lesson and the second lesson is really relevant because a lot of what we've learned over the years or I should just say I've learned
“over the years is how important softening is so you hear the relationship experts that are”
world-renowned talk about kindness and curiosity and having an open heart and oftentimes when you're in a thick alive it's like well how the hell do you do that when this person's for compissive me off right now and for me one of the reasons why I think our marriage is stronger than ever I love you more deeply than ever is that I've learned the importance of softening and remembering the person I married and this comes to the second lesson if you want your relationship to go the distance and be
meaningful and deeply connected always remember you did not marry the adult who is standing in front of you
you married the eight-year-old version of that person and there are pieces of you as a little kid that never got the real I don't even know what the technical term is that there are parts of you
“like the reason you run into the corner is because that's what you did as a kid the reason why”
you go into your head is because that's what you did as a kid the reason why you don't ask for what you need Chris is because you grew up like a lot of people did in a family is the youngest with the lot going on where it didn't matter what your needs were because people didn't care or they
cared but they didn't listen and so you just stop talking and it's easy for me to get mad at you
when I look at the fifty seven-year-old version of you and be like the man's a grown-ass adult why is he acting like this why doesn't he just tell me what he knew why is he out of there yeah and not stop and go okay hold on this my favorite person and I'm not dealing with a fifty seven I'm dealing with the part of him the tape just like you're dealing with the part of me that is a little girl and this is really important because one of the things that I've learned
from the experts when I've learned from our own like therapy you and I have been working with the therapists for five years that what's very important about this is it softens you because I think it's easy to be like that person is awful like I mean and you start to get super judgy and because the world can make you hard you don't want the way the world hardens you to be the part of you that you bring into the relationships and I find that the moment that I think about the
fact that I know who you are your core if you've been with somebody for your you knew who they are
“at their core and when you can remember that most people aren't intentionally trying to hurt you”
or intentionally trying to make you resent them or intentionally trying to piss you off they're just doing the best that they can in a very difficult world that we live in and I've really been able to soften by thinking about the fact that there are times that you get scared there are times that you're overwhelmed there are times that you don't know what to ask for and it's helped me really stop being so freaking judgy and angry and resentful when you're not doing exactly what I want
you to do or behaving how I want you to behave and just slow the role a little bit because you and I have struggled with something that the world renowned couples therapist Terry Real talks about he came on the Mel Robbins podcast I know you know Terry very well and he talked about something that was like whoa he has his term let's see if this brings a bell Chris normal marital hatred let's hear Terry Real on the Mel Robbins podcast talking about normal marital hatred
normal marital hatred normal marital hatred fight God I gotta tell you I've been around the world talking about normal marital hatred for
Not once has anyone come backstage and said what what do you mean by that and...
we all marry our unfinished business whoa hold on we all marry our unfinished business
“you're got it you know what young Mel could have had a guy that would have done everything she wanted”
him to do I guarantee you there are guys you dated who you would not have gone through this crisis with they did not blip on your screen I call this the mysticism of marriage the mysticism of marriage yes we have the opportunity to heal our deepest wounds not falling in love means oh yeah this person's going to give it to me I'm going to be healed they're going to give me everything I didn't get good luck a real relationship comes I like to say when you realize your partner is here's my quote
exquisitely designed to stick the burning spear right into your eyeball that's the crisis that's not a bad relationship that's a real relationship your question is now what are you just going to repeat the same old same old that's hell or are you going to wake up and do
“something different the crisis can make you up if you allow it but you have to do it and so”
there's a lot that goes into why we don't wake up how to wake up and if we do say awake what the hell do we do then what does unfinished business mean that what does because it's true the person that you're in a relationship with has an uncanny way to get under your skin piss you off frustrate the hell out of you you love them but you want to kill them at times right yeah definitely want to change him yeah but what does unfinished business mean exactly for us
it means that you are now exactly in the childhood wound that that's something on that
you picked was supposed to never put you in you have been fundamentally betrayed you are back
you're for you're with your crazy family and your partner is just this chaotic it turns out as your dad was your partner is just as betraying as your mom was whatever the wound is all of a sudden it's in your face and that's not what you signed up for and you hate that son of me go when you hear normal marital hatred would comes to mind Chris driving down the road with you in the passenger seat head down doing whatever you're doing silent feeling like or I should say
I'm feeling like you are a million miles away even though you're too feet from me and that's
so on point what Terry is saying because I think they say you either marry your mother or your father or something to that effect and a lot of my struggle was the physical and emotional absence of my dad that really I think was at the crux of our hardest times because we were both running scared trying to do what we were doing like dollars and that like roommates financial pain all of these things that had us be in our separate corners which only exacerbated
what I experienced which was a lot of physical and emotional absence from you so yeah that's the
“sharp poker in the eye or what that's how it felt I want to just really unpack this because I think”
is a very common thing that people feel when things get hard you turn on the person that was your favorite person and you immediately feel that shift in a relationship and you start to feel the distance and then you both go into your corners and what ends up happening at least for me is when you stop talking and you're silent and withdrawn I feel alone and it really makes me feel unsafe and then I get mad that you're not just fixing everything and that's where it goes way deep
and it never occurred to me until you and I started working with a therapist and Terry put those words
normal marital hatred out there I'd never heard that before that I really understood what
He's talking about and I started to realize wait a minute when I get scared i...
you're also scared and my little eight-year-old version gets anxious and angry and feels alone
“and yours probably feels the same way but I start going a million miles an hour and you just get”
quiet and that's when you can identify it not as something somebody's doing intentionally not as something that somebody's out to get you this is the compounding effect of all of these small moments that creates this massive distance and disconnection that's where you can go to work and
what's really helped me is basically going I married like the younger version of you you have
unfinished business with yourself I have unfinished business with myself and we have an opportunity when we come at it that way to work together to help each other finish that business and be more supportive of one another when you want to say just feeling a whole lot of gratitude that we've had thirty years together to move through it versus throwing the towel Chris this feels like a good place to take a break not only so that we can give our sponsors a chance to share the some words but I
need to go the bathroom so I have so much more I want to talk to you about and I need to have a bathroom break and you also need to listen to our amazing sponsors do you need a bathroom break
always we've got a lot more to share with you don't go anywhere we'll be right back
hey welcome back to the Mel Robbins podcast that's Chris Robbins my husband we are celebrating thirty years of marriage and we have three things that we're sharing with you that we wish we would have known when we met each other um let's just jump right back into it let's do it if the person listening let's start with the person listening who is in a relationship with somebody who shuts down like you do what would your advice be to that person about what you want them to know when a partner is
shutting down and not communicating because I'm the opposite I get angry and vent and get flooded and then I'm a jerk and then I apologize and then I get in that cycle and I then feel more and more alone and I know that it just shuts you down more do you even take a moment to notice how you're feeling now no well I didn't back then if I did if I had simply for many years paused in the driveway
“and taken a deep breath and said okay remember Mel Chris is your favorite person life is hard”
right now but you two are gonna get through this together and supporting each other right now and trying to be kind to each other and caring and consider it and curious of one another is gonna make it way more likely that you two can get through this together do not let the world and the stress and the overwhelmed that is very real overwhelmed your marriage and your relationship and the power of the two of you standing together so he's your favorite person Chris your favorite person and he's
probably just as scared as you are he's probably just as stressed as you are take a deep breath and walk in that door and you can be tired and still be kind I mean that's beautiful and beautifully said and easier said than done for most of us I said I wish I did it I didn't say it so I don't really
have a succinct answer to it let's say somebody's listening right now and they've always thought wow
I'm just married to somebody who doesn't talk I'm just married to a thinker I'm just married
“to somebody who like doesn't really talk about how they feel what I think is very important about”
what you're talking about is that somebody who's quiet on the surface is still feeling deep deep deep emotion and how do you help your partner because I used to say do what do you think what's going on up there what do you think about what's on your mind Chris and you would still deflect probably because you didn't want me to yell at you if you were about to open up about something yeah but I mean maybe there was a period there where I didn't want to say anything but
I think it gets back to yes there was deep thought in there and this is not a great answer because it's not easy to do in the moment but understanding why it is that let's say in the instance where I'm being quiet you know what is that like where does what what's the origin of that for me and that's where I think there was a lot of work that I did to recognize what I was missing
Or what I wanted and you know a lot of the time I think one of my light bulbs...
in those years where it was tough and we were running around like chickens it was rare that we would
come together and actually have a powwow in fact the only time we did it was when we needed to go over our calendars which I used to kind of scoff at because I remember watching my parents do that when I was a kid and thinking that is so stupid and then here we were on Sunday night trying
“to do that for ourselves and as much as I didn't like that that's what was pulling us together”
that was a great moment for me because there was an attempt to be close to be aligned to be in communication and I use that as example because it's one of those things that was like oh this is what's missing for me is that connection and not just communication but as even just touch like I didn't grow up with a lot of touch and so it took me whatever 30, 40 years to realize just like you reaching out and holding my hand or putting your hand on my shoulder or that that simple act
of intimacy was like the greatest thing in the world for me and it takes a little bit at least it did for me to recognize that this is what I need this is what I want and some of that may have come in the form of the struggles and the breakdowns and even the breakthroughs and some of the work that we've done together but again the reason why I've done sound like a great answer is because some of it is time and recognition of being able to stop and slow down a little bit to even
recognize the emotion or the feeling which is why I asked you do you think that because you are very ready fire aim kind of person and I am definitely more like ready aim okay aim again then fire yes I think there's there's a lot that I want to really dig into there because it kind of brings us to the third lesson you use the word simple intimacy and one of the things that we have learned the hard way is that when we are in a chapter in our relationship where we're really connected
and we feel supportive of each other and life feels manageable and I feel like you are my favorite person and I'm also treating you that way there's something that is very obvious in present and it is simple points of connection throughout a week and you mentioned the calendar
because this is something I never expected to cry over but I understand why you did because if you
really think about why you fall in love with somebody it's because not only does this person make you feel safe and make you feel like the version of you that you can be yourself you don't have to compromise your values or who you are they bring out the best in you but there's also this incredible thing that in the beginning you have all these shared goals and dreams you have a vision
“you have a way you think your life is going to turn out and there's a lot of times spent about”
what are we going to do and what are we doing this weekend and you see your friends and there's this scaffolding and these points of connection every week in the beginning of a relationship that remind you of why this relationship matters and why two can feel like one when you have these points of connection and the thing about a calendar whether you're young parents or you've just moved in together is it life does trample you with logistics and it's way worse today with texting
and social and Slack and Monday and work and email and cell phones and all that stuff like the volume of input that can act like a title wave to wash you away from your partner is endless and so a calendar meeting on a Sunday night not the sexiest thing in the world brings you
“together and gets you aligned against a shared vision that's why that matters and there are a”
couple things that are always present Chris I notice in the periods of our life where
things are really good and this is not complicated stuff number one we do the calendar meeting because one of my resentful accommodations is feeling like you know it's all up to me or you know I didn't ask for help or whatever and that's a moment where you can start to ask is there something
That you need for support is there something you need this week you know you ...
and I remember saying let me take all the dinners let me support you that way now you would never
“have come up to me and said hey I have a big week could you do dinners but that calendar meeting”
allowed us to remind ourselves we're in this together and what helped you need and you always asked me what can I do to help you this week what do you need the second thing that I notice is present is we take a walk a couple mornings not seven days a week but we might walk up the back loop up the mountain we live on we might go walk down the driveway with the dogs but we actually two or three times a week we just get a short walk in another thing that I notice is we have a
couple meals together and if we're lucky we cook together and we have this ritual where we ask
the high the low of the day lots people have a version of this whether it's rose thorn but or whatever it just kind of prompts you to share more about what you're looking forward to and then
“the final thing I think this is really important because we neglected this for a while your relationship”
is not exist in a vacuum and if you isolate your relationship from the structures that reinforce the power of being in a committed and loving and supportive relationship that isolation starts to tear away at your connection because you start to feel like it's me against you it's us against the world all I do is work and then come home and that's my existence and one thing we have done that I noticed in a remarkable distances for our 30th wedding anniversary instead of having a
party we said you know we're gonna do we're gonna prioritize seeing friends and we're gonna prioritize seeing people that God we're in our wedding 30 years ago we're gonna prioritize seeing other
“couples or other families or other friends that have been there because making time whether it's”
with family or old friends or new friends making time for that reinforces the memories it reinforces the network that you've created together fun and connection is such a huge part of it and when I look back at the times when we were really at each other's throats we were not doing that we were isolated we were barricaded with our problems we were at each other we were locked away in your head my anger and there's something about getting out of your rhythm and into an intentional
cycle of having plans to look ahead to and could you speak making dinner with friends this weekend it might be going to a live concert like we did with one of our friends that we hadn't seen these friends for two years we're like why don't we go for a concert with them that's part of our 30th wedding anniversary and to me it's made a huge difference and it does something that really again takes me back to the beginning of when we met and when the whole future was just why
it open and you feel when you're with your person like we have a shared vision and we're going to do this together and you can find your way back to it with these three things we're talking about that forwards you're my favorite person this lesson around softening and remembering you are in a relationship with your partners on finished business just think about them as a little eight year old and you probably won't scream at them and there's an opportunity to grow together
instead of to hold grudges and to lean into each other that's the opportunity and then the final
thing is really thinking about the fact that your relationship is a third person in the relationship
like it's you and you're responsible for certain things for yourself and me and I'm responsible for certain things for myself and you're responsible for supporting me and I'm responsible for supporting you in ways but there is this relationship that needs our attention otherwise it's going to die and so those things that reinforce alignment things to look forward to planning the calendar every week checking in how can I help you this week what do you need prioritizing seeing friends
and family that reinforce the good years and the memories and you know what you've all been through because there's so much value in being reminded that yeah you've been through things and
You can come out the other side yeah the only thing I would add to that is ju...
recognition of the changes that are occurring because in the honeymoon phase you don't want
anything to change and you don't imagine anything changing and the reality is that change will occur
and coincidentally many of us are seeking change over time but we certainly can't anticipate all of the ambiguities that are going to pop up when these changes are occurring whether
“we are forcing the change or they are being forced upon us and I think stopping and”
acknowledging those along the way as being sources sometimes of things like grudges and what have you be helpful you know I'm thinking about the fact that our daughters will often say to me I really like really want to find someone like that I really hope I have a marriage that's like
your guys oh my gosh and you know what I say to them I say first of all the man you see at 57
is not the man I met at 26 so there've been a lot of skill building there've been a lot of water under the bridge there's been a lot of growth our marriage when we started did not look like it looks today and so if you're in that spot where you're like is this my person is it on my person will I ever have them I do you think that you could spend 30 years with the person that you're in a relationship with and over the course of 30 years is this person the kind of person that's
willing to lean in and work on it and grow with you that was clear from day one was our mutual interest
in growth and learning and understanding first and foremost of ourselves about ourselves
but the fact that we wanted to jump into that pool together was very very attractive
“I think that's how you know you're with the right person you feel like yourself you see a shared”
vision of growing old together you share values and have some overlapping goals and dreams about the way you think about your life and the things you want out of your life and you're both willing to lean in and grow together you have that you have one of the single greatest gifts that you will ever experience in life Chris is or anything else you want to say no I mean it sounds right but I just love the fact that we've had 30 years even though lots of them
were tough I love that we're still in it together I love that we took the time to learn some of these things to give each other the space to learn these things which I know at times didn't come easy but I am failing lots of gratitude for our 30 years well we definitely grew together majorly and I do remember times where I'm like this is just a moment this is not the whole marriage this is just a moment we will get through this things will be better again and I really do wish
though that the three things that we shared today you and I had had going into this marriage and I'm grateful that we have these tools as we continue forward in it because I know we're celebrating 30 years but I was thinking about it today I can't do math very well I'm trying to think of the math here guys like if I live to be a hundred years what would 75 be so 75 would be 45 more years oh god that's 102 well be another 20 what no we've been married 30 oh in our marriage
yeah wouldn't it be cool to celebrate our 75th wedding anniversary is it even possible to live that long how old is that I'm 57 we need another we need another 45 years 45 years I could spend with you as long as I'm not drooling on myself yeah that'd be awesome you'd still be my favorite person I wonder about that oh god I would love to reach our 75th wedding anniversary
“that would put us at 102 you think we can make it I think we're doing all the right things to try”
to get there for sure all right well let's put in the calendar well I just want to remind you that on our second date when we declared we were gonna marry each other I hesitated to say that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with you I really thought about it in the moment like should I tell her that because I'm feeling that and the reason why I did feel that and I said something on our second date was because in that moment I had a visual of you and I very old
In two rocking chairs on the front porch of an old house and that vision popp...
I really do want to be in those rocking chairs together and that's what compelled me to even say
“I want that so yeah amen to 102 hope we're there I am so happy that you were here with me”
and Chris thank you for taking the time to listen to this thank you for watching it like you can not listen to or watch this conversation with the person you're in a relationship with and not
feel compelled to have a deeper conversation there's just no way based on what Chris shared
based on what I shared based on these lessons based on the topics that we covered that I'm sure I can almost feel you nodding along like that's me that's my partner and if there's one thing that we kept coming back to over and over and that we've come back to
is that you can't solve problems you're not willing to talk about and you'll never process
feelings that you keep bearing and hardening isn't going to improve your relationship so if you
“really do want to go the distance with one another and of course you do that's why you're listening”
why not soften why not find your way back to this person that you fell in love with and we are here to tell you because we've been through Allen back it is absolutely possible and these simple lessons that we shared and some of the simple tools that we've used have helped us do that and in case no one else tells you I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I'm sure Chris loves you too and we believe in your ability to create a better life and part of what
“makes for a much better life is more fulfilling relationships and I know that what we shared with you”
will give you the tools to create them all right I'll see you in the very next episode I'm going to welcome you in the moment you hit play well the one thing that I will share with you is this moment is possibly what you've been waiting for all your life once again nobody did my hair and make up so I do my own I'm I could do yours I could give you some powder normally I'm the one that's impatient I'm ready man I have been prep put your put your mic up to your
mouth all right let's go back to the thing that can be a blooper oh and one more thing and no this is not a blooper this is the legal language you know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you this podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes I'm just your friend I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician professional coach psychotherapist or other qualified professional got it good I'll see
in the next episode serious xm podcasts
