Facing the Music: Stories about Coming to Terms: The Moth Radio Hour

Also, on the product market, you will find your next step or your first big enterprise.

With KaE, the development of the online market, also the advantages of the companies. And that's the question as it is. Where the team, like security and compliance, is really worth it. It's long-awaited, it's almost out.

“That's why many startups are happy, and wait for them.”

And if it's not, it's still not worth it. Yet, stop in Alfanta.com. This is the Moth Radio Hour, on your host Suzanne Rust. You can try to escape it. You can try not to listen, but eventually, reality turns up the volume and we are forced to face the music and come to terms with our stuff.

I generally know what that means for me. You probably know what that means for you, and so do these four storytellers. Our first story is from E.J.R. David, who told her that the Atwood Concert Hall in Anchorage, Alaska, where we partner with the Anchorage Concert Association. Here's E.J.

“I've always had a high tolerance for pain.”

I broke my left arm when I was a kid trying to skate board. I just tried to walk it off. I tore my ACL on my left knee playing basketball, but I still ran a couple of marathon and a couple of half marathon on it. In fact, one story that my mom often shares with me that exemplifies this tolerance for pain happened when I was just three years old. She said it was just an ordinary day.

I wasn't complaining or crying. But that night after we went to bed, I started convulsing. She checked me out and she saw that my eyes were rolling up to the back of my head. She rushed me to the hospital where the doctors told her that I was convulsing because I couldn't break out into a fever. I guess fevers can be a good thing because it's an indicator that our immune system was activated to fight off whatever virus was inside our bodies.

“And so I needed to get this fever out in order to heal, but I couldn't.”

And so I started convulsing. Anyway, the doctor said that I had a pretty serious virus infection in my body. But we didn't know about it because I didn't say anything. I just stayed quiet and didn't complain. So yeah, high tolerance for pain.

It's something that I take pride in. I see it as a sign of strength of resilience. And this is also how I handle psychological pain. Like the pain I felt when I had to leave the Philippines to move to the United States when I was 14.

The pain I felt when I had to leave my mom to go to a country I've never seen.

My mom made a huge sacrifice when she put her two young sons, me and my younger brother, who was seven at that time, on a plane to cross the Pacific Ocean to go to a land, she did not know if she would ever see. She was strong and then complain and so I stayed strong and then complain. She believed life here was better until I believed life here was better. And those were my two core beliefs when I came into this country.

For every racist experience I faced, for every insult, every slur, every spit. I was able to just keep quiet and keep going because I reminded myself that I'm strong and I can handle pain. For every anti-immigrant comment I heard, for every fucking Filipinos you come here and take all the jobs I heard. I was able to just keep quiet and keep going because I reminded myself that life here is better. And so one day I was in college and I was going on this road trip with my girlfriend who eventually would become my wife and her sister.

And the road trip required us to go through the United States Canada border. And they said that we didn't need to bring our passports to go through the border. We just needed to bring our driver's licenses but as a brown man I couldn't take that risk.

I had to always stay at least one step ahead of racism.

And so I brought my passport with me anyway just in case. When we got to the border, the officer looked at us, asked if we were US citizens, we all said yes and we showed him our driver's licenses. I was hoping that was going to be it. But then he looked at me and asked if I had any other document to prove my citizenship. And so I showed him my passport and I thought that was going to be it but still it wasn't.

He asked me if I've ever committed any crime. I said no.

“Then he followed that up with are you sure?”

Are you sure you've never murdered anybody?

Now I started getting worried at this point. But the question was so absurd that I realized this officer was messing with me. He was using his state sanctioned authority to play this mean insulting the humanizing power trip over me. And he wanted so badly to tell him off but I didn't. I chose to stay silent.

I thought to myself don't do anything that will jeopardize our American dream.

I just wanted to survive.

“You see that incident at the border was different from all the other racism I faced in the past because this time.”

The person messing with me had real tangible power over me. He and the other officers could have just taken me somewhere and harmed me. And I wouldn't be able to do anything about it. I was concerned for my safety for my life. So this time I also stayed quiet because of fear.

After that incident my core beliefs began to crack. They began to unravel. I started asking myself if I was still being strong by not speaking up. By not standing up for myself or my family, for my people, for our humanity. Or was I now simply giving people permission to treat me like shit.

Time passed, I continued to keep my head down, kept quiet, just kept going. I graduated from college, got into grad school, got my PhD, got a job, got married. But those thoughts, those questions, those confusions, those doubts about my strength and about life in this country continued to linger inside me. Then one day here in Alaska, it was summer time. We had out of state friends visiting us and so we decided to take them camping.

It was me, my wife and our friends. We drove to our campsite, we sat up our tents, we grilled some dinner, we sat around the fire, we laughed. It was a fun night.

The next morning I was the first one up and I thought I'd be a good host and make coffee for everybody for when they woke up.

As I was walking around our campsite, looking for a kindling, I started hearing this rustling noise from a bush about 10 feet away from me, like where you are. And so I looked over and a bear walked out from behind the bush and so I paused and the bear paused and we both looked at each other. And I sized it up.

“And I don't know a whole lot about bears, but the little bear knowledge I have tells me that if a black bear attacks you, you must fight back.”

And so I was, at least that's what I heard. And so I thought to myself, shoot, I might have to fight a damn bear this morning. But then another option popped into my mind that I can just make loud, scary, intimidating noises to hopefully scare the bear away. Now that might sound like the easier option, but as you all know by now, opening my mouth to make noise isn't really my thing. I haven't done a very good job of that in my previous 25 years, but I thought to myself, I have to freaking try because it's still a much better option than having to fight a damn bear.

And so I took a deep breath and with all the courage and the strength that I could generate from inside my body, I opened my mouth to let out the scariest, most intimidating noise I could muster at that moment. And I'll came...

Probably confused.

“And I stood there shaking, stunned, shocked really at what my body chose to release.”

And then from our tent, I heard my wife, and she's never been a morning person, and she sounded very annoyed.

And she said, "Please be quiet, I'm still sleeping." And so I replied with, "I'm sorry about the noise, but please don't make any sudden movements." There's a bear outside. And I thought that was it. I thought this bear was now going to attack me and just inflict serious damage.

But maybe because of all the commotion, or maybe because the bear realized I was not alone. It just scampered away, back into the woods. And just like that, it was over. We were safe and it felt great. As I processed that experience further, weirdly enough, it reminded me of that story that my mom shares with me.

So when I was three, and I had that virus, and I convulsed in the middle of the night, you see, there's a virus in this country. Racism, anti-immigrant sentiments, and it got under my skin to invade my heart and my mind.

“And I thought that the best way to handle that virus was to keep quiet about it and not complain about it.”

I thought I was being strong that way. But in order for me to heal from this virus, I need to let this fever out. And that also hit me.

That, yeah, my mom always thought of me as having this special ability to tolerate pain.

But by telling me that story, she was also trying to teach me that sometimes I need to express my concerns so that others can know about it because then maybe they can help me heal. Or maybe so that we can all heal together. That very experience, believing or not as funny as it sounds, was the beginning of something new for me. Even when I'm feeling really weak and feeling helpless and feeling really scared that all I can muster is a whimper. Even when I'm feeling insignificant, I'm not.

I have a voice, and I've been making noise ever since. Thank you. That was E.J.R. Debede. E.J. is a professor of psychology, author, and radio host who lives in Anchorage, Alaska with his wife and children. With his bare encounter behind him, I asked E.J. how he was using his voice and being loud these days.

He says that he sees himself as a scholar and activist, who likes to support and amplify voices of historically oppressed communities. He's proud to say that getting into necessary trouble has been a regular part of his life. He hopes his story will inspire people to stand up and speak out. To see photos of E.J. with his mother and brother, go to themoth.org. Next up, a young girl striving for holiness and a mother's most difficult choice when the moth radio hour continues.

The moth radio hour is produced by Atlantic public media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

We always recommend Shopify. It took us from an idea to a real business.

“We got set up, I think, in less than a day.”

With very little effort, we could just focus on the supply chain to the product development. Shopify gives us the ability to customize without the complexity. We can change something without introducing fragility or having to pay a developer. Where thirsty total and we leveled up our business with Shopify. Start your free trial at Shopify.com/AU.

This is the moth radio hour, I'm Suzanne Rust.

Mary, for a long humor, told it at a story slam in Louisville, Kentucky, where we partner with W.F.P.L. Here's Mary.

“When I was seven years old, that was 68 years ago, I'm 75, you don't have to do the math.”

When I was seven years old, I was in a Catholic school, and we were preparing for our first communion,

which necessitated prior to that, our first confession. The heat that I was most afraid of would be the eternal flames of hell. [ Laughter ] Already at age seven, they had put the fear of hell into me. If you ever noticed, everything is geared in the most lacks people, you know, all the scary stuff.

They don't think about the poor, scrupulous little seven-year-old sitting there trembling in her seat, because she just knows somewhere along the line she must have done something wrong. All right, concurrent with that preparation, we're stories about the lives of the saints. Now, many saints, as you may or may not know, and is certainly worth a Google, were blessed with a strong desire for self-abuse and not the good kind.

[ Laughter ] So there was all manner of fragilation and crowns of thorns, and in the case of St. Rose of Lima, of whom our nuns were especially proud, because she was a, this side of the Atlantic saint from Lima, Peru. So she, among other things, walked on broken glass as her parents.

There were later stories about crowns of thorns.

“I'm not kidding, you should look the stuff of it's insane.”

But anyway, she did this because she wanted to be close to our Lord and all his suffering. Now, this was pre-self esteem days, you know. She goes back to the 1500s, but anyway, so we are the stories of all the different saints. And then in order to confess properly, we were given a little book that had just like every sin you can imagine in the book.

And we were supposed to study the book in order to prepare for our first confession.

But I thought, oh my God, what if I missed something? I was really nervous. Now, they had two priests, and two people on each side. They had two confessionals going that day. But I was so scared, I just took the book in with me.

And I just figured, I would be on the safe side if I just read every sin. And said, yes, I didn't, I didn't know I didn't. Now, I had problems with some things I didn't understand like what the world was. S-O-D-O-M-Y. And the good priest, who heard our confessions,

was known to take a weed drop. So, I have a feeling, because he did not even stop me at all, that my malif Lewis, little seven-year-old voice, just putting him out like a light. But the next day, Sister Catherine Albert,

who I must say was generous in just sweeping the room with her eyes.

She never looked right at me.

She said, boys and girls, we are a little behind on our confession schedule. Because we had a very thorough little girl. She could have said child. She said, we had a very thorough little girl who found it necessary to name every sin. And that's really not necessary.

Just hit the highest spot. So, I was mortified, plus I'd blown my only confession before my first communion.

“By doing that. Now, what should have only been an embarrassing faux pas?”

In my little seven-year-old mind, was a grave sin, for which penance was required. And when I went out back in the alley, there was a lot of broken glass. But I'm like, you know what? No. So, there limits on sanctity.

But I did go in the bathroom, and I did turn on the water. We had a very good hot water here.

I put the stopper in the sink, and I plunged my little hands.

“Into that hot hot water, and I just hung there as long as I could.”

And I just prayed to be forgiven because I had to do penance for this faux pas, which, of course, I thought was a sin. So, when I levitate it out in the bathroom with little lobster claws, you know, my hands and my mother asked me what happened. I have to tell you, when I explained to her what I did, I felt wholly.

Thank you.

Mary Furlong Kumar is a fitness instructor for seniors at her local Y in Louisville, Kentucky.

And her main hobby is dancing of every kind. Mary recently turned 80, and she likes to refer to it as Act 5 of Final 20.

“At the end of her story, Mary says that she felt wholly.”

So, I asked her what that meant to her back then, and what it means to her now. She said when she was little, it meant that because she had bungled her confession, her absolutely didn't count, so she had to face up and manage her own vindication. Today, it means continuing her 12-step journey, which has helped keep her sober since 1986. Mary likes to say, "I had better luck with the 12 steps than with either the 10 commandments or the 5 precepts."

To see photos of little Mary at our holy communion, go to themoth.org. When survival is at stake, sometimes the most difficult and painful choices have to be made. We met our next storyteller, Karen Kibara, in one of our global community workshops in Nairobi, Kenya,

“where she shared a story of surviving domestic abuse.”

After the workshop, Karen told the story at a moth event that we produced during the UN General Assembly, featuring stories of women and girls. Here's Karen Kibara, live at the moth. I was a good girl and I did everything that my parents told me to. I was not taught to be assertive, and I had learned from being a young girl to give up things that I really wanted.

I had siblings, younger than me, and I would give up things like toys. If I was playing with them and they cried for them, I really, really loved traveling. And I thought I would become a tour guide, but my father said, "No, you will be a secretary and I became one."

At 18 years old, I never had a boyfriend.

So, at 19 years old, I had just cleared high school and I was waiting to join the college. And my father called me, I was at home and said, "Caren, cook good food, I'm bringing home a guest." That was the first time I met this man. He dressed to the nines. He looked good. And after they had the meal, he commented and said, "That was a good meal."

And at 19 years old, I was feeling good, you know, and they had shivers all over me. My mother ran a shop in our town. It's the same town where this man ran a very successful legal business. And in my mother's shop, we sold, you know, solders in some cakes. And I would go to help her run the shop.

Then I noticed that this man kept coming to the shop quite often. Soon I would later realize, "No, it wasn't the refreshment, it was coming for." He had seen a good thing and that was me. No? And he was in hot pursuit. A few months later, I joined the college that my father had picked for me.

It was about 200 miles away from home and away from him. And this man, who did not know how to drive, but a car, and hired a driver. Just to come and see me over there, we can. And I felt loved. And I found myself in a relationship with this man. A few months later, I got to know that some people were talking to my parents and warning them

Especially his girlfriends, his former girlfriends, they told him that he did not treat women quite well.

So when I told him about to say, "Oh, no, Karen, they're just jealous." So my parents panicked and they said demanding that I stopped seeing this man, but I just couldn't. I was into deep. In the last semester of this college, I got myself pregnant. Oh, excuse me, he got me pregnant.

So I called him and told him, "The news of what I had found out." And he said, "Don't worry, calm down. We'll talk about it." So after I finished college and I packed everything that I had, he came and picked me up. And he could drive at this time.

“On our way home, he said, "Caren, I hope you remember that you and I agreed that you're coming”

now to move in with me." And for a moment, I was like, "I don't remember having that kind of a conversation." And I said, "No, my mom is waiting for me. I got to go home." And he got so, so angry that he did not talk to me. But then along the way, I thought, "How do I break this news to my father?"

And to my mother and children are outspregnant. So I thought, probably, it was just a very bad idea to move in with him and so I did. About six months later, our son was born. And that's when things took a turn. These months that I thought loved me.

Srecoming home late drunk. And he would get angry at small things. They'd be crying too much at night. You are getting too fat. You are going to see your mother too much. The food did not taste as good as it used to.

And I just couldn't understand what was going on. Now, on one of those days that he came home late, this time he came a little bit later. Just about morning. I had spent the entire night crying, looking out through the window. We didn't have cell phones at that time, so I couldn't call him.

So when he got into the house, I was like, "Hey, man, what's going on? Why are you coming home this late? Could you just tell me, what's really happening?

I tell you, I never had anything that he said.

“The only thing I had was a huge slap on my face.”

And then another, and another, and I was so shocked. This was the first time he had slapped me. And I was so frightened, so I didn't talk much. In fact, I didn't speak anymore than he went to bed. Now, when he woke up, he came to me and said,

"You see what you made me do to you? How do you just shut up?" If you didn't ask those silly questions, I wouldn't have hit you. Why don't you just be as quiet? Don't you know that a woman is there to be seen and not to be heard? And I was like, "Whoa, this is going to be different." So this physical abuse went on for the next seven years.

And I got myself a job. He really made me feel guilty about it. He demanded that I should choose between my family and the job. And so I chose the job. He got the director fired me. My contract was terminated.

My family knew that there was abuse going on in this relationship. Twice I had left, and he had cried and pleaded. And promised that he was not going to hurt me anymore. Twice I went back with him. My parents did not know what to do.

“The only thing my mum thought best to do was to call her friends quite often.”

And so one day, as I was talking to my father, he looked at me and said, "Where is my daughter? Where is Karen?" Because the woman that stands before me, this is not my daughter. My Karen would not stand such kind of nonsense from a man like that.

And I was quiet. My father never taught me how to be an asset to your woman.

He never taught me how to stand up for myself. And now in adulthood, he's asking me to stand up against a man he lived in years older than me. How was I going to do that? I just did not understand. And so, one other bad night, this man came home late. I opened up the door, and because I had learnt how to tune him out, I didn't hear what you were saying.

But I think because I ignored him, he just suddenly grabbed me with the colours of my pajamas.

And he asked me, "Karen, tell me, why do you feel invincible?"

I had not had that word before. I did not know what it meant. And then he said, "You know, I don't think you understand what I asked you. I asked you, why do you feel so invincible?" And I did not say "invisible," I said "invincible." And so he went to the bookshelf and grabbed a dictionary and threw it at me and told me,

"To look out for that word and read it out loud and read out the meaning of it." And, well, I obeyed. And as I read the meaning of the word, out loud, I read words like, "To strong, to be defeated." Powerful, concrete and beatable and shakeable and movable.

“And I'm like, wait a minute, was this man describing me with this word?”

I, who for eight years, lived in this marriage, believing I was weak, vulnerable and lovable. Powerless. In his eyes, I was much more than just a strong woman. So it don't don't mean all along what this man was trying to do was to beat me and to subdue me, to crush this strong woman that he was seeing.

And so, I knew that this was my moment and I told myself we're going to get out of this and never come back.

This is the last day you're doing this. And so, after a while, I think he got tired. He went to his bedroom and I went to mine. And I cried myself to sleep that night. But those were tears of joy because I knew this was the last time that this was happening.

“So when I woke up the following morning, I very stealthily walked out of my bed and then I ticked all to his bedroom”

and I confirmed that he was asleep, seriously snoring. And so, I grabbed a small bag, just a small beginner for me to put a few clothes in and maybe a pair of shoes or two.

And that I was ready to run out of that house.

And as I walked towards the door, and right before I had my hand on the donob, I heard the voice of my seven-year-old son, and he asked me, "Mom, where are you going?" And I said, "I have to live now. I'll come back, I'll tell you everything." And he said, "No, can I go with you?" And I said, "No, you can't come with me." "Please, and I said, crying, I said, "Please don't cry. If you cry, you'll wake up your father and I'll be more troubled."

And I knew that his father dotted so much on his son, and it's I whom he detested.

“So, and I thought that the best I could do was to get myself out of here, get myself back in order,”

physically and emotionally and financially and then come back for my son. So, I managed to convince him not to cry and to stay in the house, and then I ran out of that house, me and my little bug. And as his cries faded off, and as the distance between me and the house grew, the weight of this marriage was falling off my back.

I got into the next bus that came, and I went straight home to my parents' house, and they took me in, and I was able to get myself a job. In the years that followed, I was able to have a relationship with my son, and he's just about to finish university right now. And now, I run my own kindergarten out of passion,

and I also mentor and speak to young girls and women, and helping them find their inner strength, their inner power, so that they can learn how to be ascetic. And so, here I am, Karen from Kenya, telling the story of Karen the Invincible. Thank you. [Applause] That was Karen Kubara. Karen lives in Washington State, where she is a case resources manager.

She loves writing and a good road trip. Her son is an adult now, and is about to get his masters and international business administration. Karen says that there are no words when it comes to the emotion she felt on the day she left. Choosing between staying for the sake of her son,

We at the Moth were grateful that Karen was able to leave her abusive marriage.

But although she did emphasize that her husband adored and cared for their son, and she felt he would be safe, we couldn't help but worry. I asked her to talk a little bit more about this, and I also asked if and how she was able to stay and touch with her child over the years. There was a clear difference between how he treated me to the way he treated her son.

I had not witnessed him being kind to his son in any way. He doubted on him. My mother called my son his father's gem. Because he treasured and valued him so much. Five months after I left, he relocated to another city with my son. And with no cell phones at the time, I was not able to reach my child.

I would get information about my son's warfare from my in-laws,

“and this was the only way I was able to verify that he was well.”

I contacted my son as soon as I was able.

And that was after his father, he did to my plea to allow me to have access to him.

Thank you. Karen's story haunts us. We can't help thinking of women like her all over the world, who have to take extreme measures to protect themselves. To see photos of Karen and her son go to themoth.org.

Our final story will take us to Jamaica, where a little boy makes a special discovery in his local bookstore. That's where the Moth radio hour continues. The Moth radio hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Understanding power requires more than headlines.

I'm Peter Hamby, host of the powers that be. A podcast from Park Examining Politics, Economics, and Media to provide context analysis and clarity without sensationalism. We ask how power operates, who benefits, and what's at stake.

“If you want to move beyond breaking news to deeper understanding,”

join us on the powers that be. New episodes every weekday follow the powers that be wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to the Moth radio hour. I'm Suzanne Rust. Our last story is a testament to the intrigue and power of books.

Writer Colin Channer told it at a Moth main stage at the Schubert Theatre in Boston, where our presenting partner is W.B.U.R. Here's Colin, live at the Moth. When I was eight years old, this was 1971 in Jamaica.

One day, I was at primary school, and the guy had gone to Miami, and he came back, and he told us the story of something he'd seen in a wall greens. His description was, it's a combination of a comic book, a magazine, and a book book,

the Superman annual.

“I'd never heard of an annual comic book.”

I'd never seen a comic book that was bigger than about 20 pages.

So I decided I had to see one, which meant going to the biggest bookstore in Jamaica, sangsters. My mother was very strict. My father was already gone.

Wasn't yet dead. He was a cop. He was scared of my mother, who was a pharmacist. My brother and I were scared of her too.

So every Saturday she would take us to these drawing classes in downtown Kingston. We sort of looks like an old southern town with these buildings, with these pitch roofs, and we'd go to our class,

and there was 15 minutes between when we left and when she picked us up. Sancter books, biggest bookstore in Jamaica, five minutes run around the corner. I told my brother,

I'm going inside to the bathroom. I'm coming back before mommy comes. My brother, his name is Gary. He wanted to be a priest or so he would say. To be considered innocent.

I wanted to be an astronaut, how practical. So I ran around to Sancters, and in those days in Jamaica, he still had meal cards, and he had cars,

and he had reggae playing everywhere. And I run into the bookstore, and it's strange to me because it's cold. It was air conditioned. And I hugged myself.

Wow. And then I look up, and ten steps in front of me at a catch register. Was a woman in the blue polyester suit. She was a color of strong tea,

So I said to her, excuse me,

“is there something here called a Superman annual?”

And she says, "Let, yes." And she told me where it was. And then I went around to where it was on the shelf, and there was a big sign above it that said, "No reading allowed."

So I skimmed through it. It was a size of a family Bible. Heavy. It had a hard cover. There were interviews with the people

who drew the Superman comics.

There were other storylines that we'd never seen before,

and there was about a whole year's worth of Superman comics in one book. I ran back to art class. I made it. I started going every week.

I became friendly with the cashier. I would go in. Hi. And she'd go, "Hello." Until she started sending a clerk

“to guard me while I read the Superman annual”

under the no reading allowed sign. So one weekend, I didn't go to art class. I didn't get to see the Superman annual. I didn't get to see my lady friend. And I was thinking about her,

but how nice she was, and how different she was from my mother.

And then I started thinking about how nice she was.

I felt obligated to be nice to her. And as I started feeling obligated to be nice to her, when my eight-year-old mind started connecting something, which is, I want the book. If I asked my mother for the money to buy the book,

she would say, "No, I'm a single mother." But if I had a friend who worked in the store, then maybe I could get her to like me in a special way. And maybe we could work something out. So when I got back to San Francisco next time,

and I walked in the store in a hug myself, she hugged herself long. I said, "Hi." She said, "Little friend, what happened to you? I didn't see you last week." I said, "Well, you know."

And I began to improvise.

“Well, I was out with my mother, you know,”

and we were shopping, and, you know,

I like to help my mother a lot. So that's why I didn't come. I said, "You're a nice little boy." I went around the corner, ran back to art school, made it.

Next week, I would steal the book. And I made a plan, a good plan, a wicked plan. I used to like watching the scene with Simon Templar. I used to like watching, it takes a thief with Robert Wagner, Alexander Monday.

America made this. So, I went in the store, the next week, ran inside, did not hug myself. I just ran up to her and said, "Oh, my God,

you wouldn't believe what happened. I was out shopping with Mommy, like last week, and a bag broke. You have a bag you could give me?" And it's a little friend, of course.

And it gives me a bag. And I run out of front entrance, and I walk around the back way, coming through the back entrance. With the bag on the my shirt,

pull it out. Superman Daniel was there. Take it, drop it. Hulk annual was there too. Spider-man was there as well.

And why should I super hero be alone? So I walked out nice and easy. Perfectized. Then I got back to art school. And my brother the priest was there.

What you having the bag? Now when your brother is 12, and he wants to be a priest, and anything he says is believed, and you want to be an astronaut, and anything you say is otherworldly.

You get defensive. So there was only one answer. None of your damn business. And he asked me again, and I said, "None of your beeswax."

And then my mother came. We got in the car. Blue Ford escort. My brother says, "Mommy.

Collin have books." From sangstas. And my mother stops a car. She looks at me. Where you get money to buy a books from.

Where he's not books mommy is comics. Where you get the money to buy the comics from. And I experienced early onset, pre-pubescent amnesia. Because I couldn't remember.

That time when Uncle Cody came, and he gave me the money that time.

You beg Uncle Cody for money.

You beg in people money, because you think you have no father?

“Why is it nobody ever believes me when I say anything?”

(audience laughing) You're teeth, the books. Now, in Jamaica don't steal. You're thief. And you don't thief.

You're thief. (audience laughing) You're teeth, the books. No mommy, I did not teeth the books. Show me the receipt.

Okay, will that make you happy? I rummage around. I must be drop it. (audience laughing)

I'm going to drive you back the sangsters.

Better tell me the truth now. Don't shame me in front of people. There was a simple calculus. When you're in the backseat of a tutor car, in 1971, in Jamaica,

“where parents can do anything they want,”

in any fashion, for however long. (audience laughing) You see, let's go to the store. (audience laughing) Because in the store you'll have witnesses

who are not in the family. (audience laughing) So we get there. My mother walks in. She does not hug herself.

(audience laughing) We come in. My mother says, "Which cashier you buy it from?" The amnesia. Again, I think it was a camp room.

And I see my lady friend observing all this. And I am the fortunate son. That one, mommy. We walk up to her. (audience laughing)

This boy here said, "He bought tree book from you." Superman, Spider-Man. And another one. (audience laughing)

You remember him buying anything from you? I looked at my lady friend. My lady friend looked at me. Who we had a connection. (audience laughing)

And she looked at my mother. And she looked back at me.

“And she said, "Words, I will never forget."”

Little friend, I am so disappointed. (audience laughing) And I learned the power of shame.

Years later, my second book came out.

I got a letter from Sanctuary's books. They were opening a new store in Kingston. And they would like me to come. (audience laughing) To do a reading there.

And when I went to the store, all the memories of that heist came back. But also a real connection of what it means to be disciplined in different ways. It was a discipline of my mother, the discipline of force.

And then there was a discipline of someone saying, "In her own way, I know you can do better. Do better." (audience laughing) (audience applauding)

That was Colin Shanner. And you'll be happy to know that he is no longer a thief. Instead, he's a well-respected writer who teaches in the Department of Literary Arts at Brown University. Colin likes to say that he's a vegetarian.

However, he will make an exception for a really good curry goat. I have a soft spot in my heart for Colin, because I also have some Jamaican blood in me. Thanks to my grandfather, Arthur Russ Sr., a product of Montico Bay and the best guy ever.

I love Jamaica. And so I ask Colin, what if anything he missed about the island? (upbeat music) It's hard to miss Jamaica,

because it's so influential as a culture. It is everywhere. I learned storytelling in Jamaica. I learned Reagan in Jamaica, and this music is one of the artistic touchstones of my life.

What it does with finding the natural poetry in the everyday voice, for example, and how it brings together various moods and moods, comedy, tragedy, philosophy, history, politics, what we call slackness, you know, the naughty stuff,

and how it goes from the concrete to the surreal and mystical and quick shifts. And what is more of a futurist than the music, all that manipulation of perception and time? (upbeat music)

To see a photo of young Colin, go to moth.org.

Thanks so much for listening.

“I hope you'll join us next time for more stories.”

(upbeat music) This episode of The Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison,

Katherine Burns and Suzanne Rust, who also hosted this hour.

The stories were directed by Sarah Austin Genes, Jennifer Hickson and Larry Rosen, co-producer is Vicki Merrick, associate producer Emily Couch.

The rest of the Moth leadership team

includes Sarah Haberman,

“McBulls, Kate Tellers, Jennifer Birmingham,”

Marina Cluchay, Brandon Grant, Inga, Glidowski, Sarah Jane Johnson, and Aldi Kaza. The Moth would like to thank the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation for their support

of the Moth's global community program. Most stories are true as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by the drift.

“Other music in this hour is from Epidemic Sound,”

podcast music, production support from Davy Sumner. We receive funding from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey,

including Executive Producer Leah Ries Dennis. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching is your own story and everything else, go to our website, TheMoth.org.