JFK Jr.’s Plane Crash Romanticized, Kennedy Family Dark Truths, & Hoda Kotb's Dateline Backlash

- Hello and welcome to your Tuesday edition

of Gunnerv. I am your host, Maureen Calahan.

“I am so excited to do this show with you guys today.”

This is, I was up late, like happily up late, like pulling clips and old articles and essays and interviews and mixed media because we're doing it. You guys, the finale of Love Story aired last week

and I watched it in real time. I took notes in real time and I looked around for my nearest sledgehammer because we're taking it to this, we're taking it, we're taking it to this piece

of cultural garbage. It's a dangerous lie, okay? This is where, like, pop culture transcends and has real consequences for the historical record and the ways in which the mainstream media

gets to continue telling their little fairy tale because they're all fucking children, okay? Real talk about fake people, the guy who caused the crash that killed Carolyn Bissette, age 33, and her brilliant sister,

Lauren, age 34, then, oh my God,

“the heart of the show as ever, should I say a sever?”

The heart of the show always your feedback.

I have a nice, healthy pile of your emails, but we at Nerv HQ saw your response to our weekend mini-nerv, which landed with the shock and awe of alien lifecraft. Finally, someone said what we were all thinking

and going to ourselves, am I, am I really fucked up because I think that Hoda copy is laughing and smirking in Savannah Guthrie's face? We're right, we're right, then we're gonna tie this all up with a bow, tie this all up with a bow.

We've got one person telling one version of a story who's about to be foul our streaming services and basic cable airwaves yet again. And may I just say, we at the Nerv cannot wait, we can't wait, and then we are going to talk about

a saint over at the Nerv and I mean it. This is a spiritual, philosophical, intellectual godmother of the Nerv and I've heard from you guys before and you love her as much as I do. So are you ready?

Are you ready? Let's go.

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Let's pulverize this myth into oblivion. For today, at least, some other Joker's gonna come around. Tomorrow, they're in my comment section going, "Moreen, what's wrong with you?" Nothing, I'm a smart person who likes truth, okay?

episode nine, title, search and recover.

I find this title interesting because they call it search and recovery. When they are doing these missions out in the field, that is what they are called search and recovery.

“And I think bastardizing that a little bit”

and calling it recover is a nod to what the show runners are doing here, what Ryan Murphy and Connor Heinz are doing here. And what they are doing is trying to recover this bullshit fairy tale that is so dangerous. And you know who it's most dangerous for, women,

who are being told to normalize, being blamed for things that their men do, even if that results in them getting killed. And to also accept terrible behavior

from a man that they're dating

or that they choose to get engaged to or to marry or to have children with. 'Cause that's just how they are. It's really, really insidious, dangerous, sludge, okay? So this episode opens with John and Carolyn

talking to their marital therapist. And Carolyn is recounting her recurring nightmare,

“which this never, this is not part of the historical record.”

None of her friends have ever said she had this recurring nightmare, the writers made it up and put it in her mouth and it's sacralage. In this dialogue, the Carolyn character says, "I have a recurring nightmare in which I am John's mother."

In the back seat of that convertible in Dallas, on the day of the assassination and I'm wearing the pink Chanel suit and the pink pill box hat and his blood gets all over me.

Settle, it's sacralage to Jacqueline Kennedy, Ohnassus, sacralage. Then the therapist advises a trial separation and listen, the gall, the gall of these writers to put these words in a character's mouth

knowing what's coming in this episode. Here we go.

“Your advice for our marriage is divorce?”

- No, but I think part of the reason that you two aren't finding any clarity is that your stuck in this sort of little space maybe if you severed contact for a little while, you would gain a clear idea of what you're missing

or what your life would actually look like without the other. - Like, for how long? - Yeah, like one, two weeks. A month, maybe two. Do you often tell me clients her?

- No, no, I mean, you obviously would see me, you just wouldn't see each other. - I can't not talk to my wife for a month. - Yeah, I don't want to do that either. I mean, I don't think I could,

even if you asked me to. Well, I mean, you won't come together. You won't let go. And instead, you are just white knuggling this marriage into a downward spiral.

- A downward spiral. John, I can't use the verb piloted because he was not equipped to pilot that plane and he in fact crushed it. Brutally, he went into a graveyard spiral.

- You cannot tell me these writers are going to claim something is elevated as artful foreshadowing. That is cross beyond measure. And you know, it's most disrespectful to not just the memories of Carolyn and Lauren Bissette,

but their mother and Freeman who is still alive and Lauren's twin sister Lisa who is still alive. And the other obscenity in that scene, the therapist says you're in this liminal space. John didn't know what the word liminal meant.

There's this moment, the actor looks at the Carolyn character. Like, you know what that means?

I never heard that word before.

I've never heard that word before. After that session, the two of them go day drinking at walkers, which is a real tavern in New York City. It's been there forever. I had a birthday there one year.

It's right next door to where they lived in Tribeca, they're loft. So part of the big reason their marriage is falling apart is because Carolyn cannot stand having her photo taken. So they decide to go day drinking,

at the tavern, right next door to where all the paparazzi are camped out and would see them day drinking.

We're going to look at a scene that these writers

“inserted deliberately to make JFK Junior”

seem sympathetic in the moments leading up to this crash this scene is a lie.

This never happened, here we go.

Hey, this is John Kennedy requesting a standard weather briefing for a VFR flight from Essex County to Martha's Vineyard departing around 6pm. That means a visual flight and not instrument rated, not using your instruments to fly.

And he never, ever checked for a weather report before flying and they put the timestamp in there around 6pm to make it, Carolyn's fault, when we see her as we saw her in the very first episode, arriving late, not her fault, only person's fault,

the would be pilot next. You know, I was on a subreddit that belongs to,

“it's called John and Carolyn and it's fans of John and Carolyn”

and people who wanted to love love story

and they were all basically to a one saying,

they had been watching this episode and hoping that Ryan Murphy and Connor, again, you're in the wrong place. You're in the wrong neighborhood, you're in the wrong zip code. These two exhibiting taste and restraint,

they're going, please don't show us any scenes inside the cockpit or the tiny little, would you call it a cabin and a plane this small, I don't know. But they were like, we don't want to see any dramatization of what went on in the flight during the flight,

just don't do it. They did it, they did it. And I'm gonna surgically demolish the shit.

“First of all, they've got the characters in the plane”

all wrong, they've got Carolyn and Lauren seated in the back, facing forward, facing John's back and facing out of the windshield and they were not, they were strapped in with their backs to his back. Okay, so that makes their terror all the more poignant.

They can't see what he's doing or not doing. They can't, all they can hear are the engines and the instruments going crazy. But we're not gonna see it that way.

No, no, no, first, Carolyn is in the back.

Reading calmly, I mean, sure. Who doesn't read calmly in the equivalent of a helicopter with the noise and all the stimuli and like, your anxiety is still spiked because you're an aircraft, and you're in small aircraft, you know?

But she's a cool girl, she's a cool girl. So this is more subtlety, she is calmly reading, a paperback version. We see the title, again, these writers, they are just bang in us, it's like watching the Flynn stones.

It's like, she's reading lovers, winners and losers, which is a two-act play, 1967, two-act play by Brian Freel, in the first act a young couple, wife is pregnant, they are killed in an accident, they drown, which is a version of what love story has been

harkening to and foreshadowing all this time. You know, they love a romantic drone shot of the ocean. You know, it's like, it's not romantic that they died and their remains were left on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean, you know, on the floor for days and we're gonna talk

about that, we're gonna talk about the reality of that. Also, you wanna weave in some symbolism, you know, it's all in real life, it's all in real life. This JFK Jr. crashed his plane on the night of July 19th, 1999. Here's something for you, that was also the 30th anniversary

of Chapaquidic, I mean the symmetry, 30th, 30th, Chapaquidic in which Ted Kennedy, I'm gonna say drunkenly, he's dead, I can't liable him, he was a huge drunk, we all know he was drunk, drunkedly drove his car off a bridge

in Chapaquidic, it flipped over in a shallow amount of water. He escaped and he left a 28-year-old campaign aide devoted to the Kennedy's name Mary Joke Peckney to die and hers was a slow agonizing death. She was upside down breathing from an air pocket

with her neck, cranked it's all and asked not, and she could have survived if he had only gotten help.

Now she was collateral, fucking damage for him, he wanted to run for president.

“Can't do that if he's like, like so what did the machine do?”

It was her fault, what was she doing? What was she doing in a car with a married senator?

Here's what else never happened, I took note,

as I said, I took notes, happens in the show, happens in the scene, never happened, Carolyn, onhooks her seat belt and says suggestively to jump, because what sexier than knowing you're gonna die in a violent way in about two minutes,

she says sexily to John, permission to enter the cockpit and then she climbs into the seat next to him and she the audio, the sound design and the scene, like you hear the perfect click of her belting herself in, the perfect adjustment of her beautiful earphones

with the little microphone, like everything is designed to sound and look, dainty and elegant, it's really fucking perverse, aside from the fact

“that this never happened, this never happened.”

And then she leaves her sister alone in the cockpit,

in the back seat, rather her sister, who her only use in this story, this was by the way, a brilliant woman who worked in finance, a star, she was going places, everyone loved her, her only function in this series

is to cheerlead Carolyn to stay with John. That's it, and what do we see of Lauren in the back seat of this plane? Just smiling so contentedly, because the quarreling lovers are getting along again.

Now the plane warnings start going off, and again, we're gonna talk about the way this is depicted, versus reality, real talk about fake shit, let's go. (dramatic music)

- Everything okay? - Yeah, no.

- No. - No. - No. - Let's go back to this. (dramatic music) - I wanna see what you're doing. - Okay, so that is that is meant to be an echo,

of Jackie Kennedy's, she gave an interview.

“I believe this was the one to Arthur Slashinger,”

not long after the assassination, like really in the immediate days after, and she was talking about the Cuban missile crisis, which he caused. Recrister for Hitchens on this, you know?

Anyway, and the entire East Coast of America was preparing to be attacked by the Russians and blown to bits in nuclear annihilation, and Jackie Kennedy had tried to send her away with the children, and she said,

"I just wanna be here with you." - I'm gonna read the salient part about what really happened in the plane from Ask Not, okay? So this is after John has left the little coastline to turn out over to the pitch block Atlantic,

even though he could only fly by sight, and it was super, super hazy that night. We'll get into that. Now, I'm reading from the book, would have been the time to start using his instruments,

but John couldn't. Now, would have been the time to radio air traffic control, but John, who loved to get himself into near-death situations, did not. Was he that sure he could get himself and Carolyn

and Lauren out of it? Or was there a part of him, subconscious or not? That didn't care if he died, taking his wife and sister-in-law with him. His magazine was on the verge of collapse.

His marriage was failing contrary to the scene we just watched. His marriage was failing. His sister upset that John was trying to stop her from auctioning off their mother's possessions, Jackie's deathbed suggestion.

Was now barely speaking with him. His life was coming apart on all fronts, and John did not have great internal resources to drop on. The kind of inner strength forged only from being humbled,

humiliated, pushed down, and then forcing oneself to get back up again. Let's watch love stories depiction of Carolyn,

In this scene, there is no doubt,

“and if you're only listening, I'm gonna tell you”

the Lauren character in the back, simply peacefully closes her eyes as if, to me, a welcome fate. This is really fucking sick you guys. Really fucking sick.

Here we go. (dramatic music) It's okay, just breathe. John, just breathe. (dramatic music)

They're all so calm. There's no screaming, there's no terror. The depiction, it's like they hit mild turbulence. And we've all been on planes that hit turbulence,

“and it doesn't matter what your rational mind is telling you,”

you know that feeling of like the pit in your stomach. This is so beyond obscene. Like I find it, I find it pornographic, really. I really do. Now we're going to show

Constance Zimmer, who did an incredible job playing Anne Freeman,

who was a lioness, Anne Freeman, the mother of Carolyn, Lauren, and Lisa Bassette, her only children. Two of them are now dead. You know, imagine what Anne thought her later years

would be like, I'm sure she envisioned grandchildren and no shortage of happy times with her brilliant accomplished daughters. And now two of them are dead. Their bodies have yet to be recovered,

and she doesn't know if they will be.

And so this is what the scene gets right

is that Anne had a meeting in Manhattan in a lawyer's office and her meeting was scheduled to be with Caroline Kennedy. And the topic of that meeting, the only agenda item was what they were going to do with the remains once they were recovered

and how they were going to memorialize John, Carolyn, and Lauren. Caroline Kennedy did not show up. Nor did she have the decency to give Anne Freeman notice prior that she would not be attending this meeting. Instead, she sent her husband the vile, deplorable

just my opinion, Ed Schlossberg. Anne, in real life, now, this series does a lot to humanize Ed and Caroline, maybe because they're still living. I don't know, I'm much more cynical than that.

“I think it's because you cannot make Kennedy's sympathetic”

without giving them traits, they don't possess. Without giving them a basic level of humanity, they do not embody. We'll watch the scene and then I'll tell you what really went down and to quote the one and only, quote a copy, Savannah,

your mother got ripped out of her bed in the dead of night. What went down? Here we go. Where is she? Sorry.

Your wife, she was supposed to be here, where is she? I think she just felt, in one of the circumstances, it would be better if I help broker the arrangements for the remains. Is that right?

In his diaries published by the New York Post and seen with my own eyes, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. wrote that the Pissette family, the Pissette Freeman family, Freeman was Anne's married name, she remarried. New that Ed hated Carolyn, his words hated Carolyn.

My theory about that, which nobody is ever really spoken about publicly, is that Ed Schlossberg, probably lusted after Carolyn, who was a striking, statuous, stylish, compelling woman who had a magnetic force, complicated person to be sure,

And I bet that was the locus of the resentment of the hatred

because why else, it's your sister's brother's wife. Like, what are you care? Now, Edwin, as the scene progresses, is going to talk to Anne about potential plans, potential burial arrangements.

And I'm going after this little scene, we're going to get into what really happened. It was brutal, it was sadistic. Here we go. - President Clinton has offered the John B. Barried

in Arlington National Cemetery alongside President Kennedy and Jackie next to the Eternal Flame. However, if we wanted to keep John and Carolyn together, we proposed a Holyhood, the Kennedy Family burial plot

in Brooklyn, Massachusetts.

“- Why would my daughter be buried in a state just no ties to?”

Are you suggesting those are my two choices, which you so kindly laid out for me? - Of course not. - Yes, but if you prefer that Carolyn be buried with John, the family would insist that you'd be alongside

the rest of the deceased Kennedy relatives. - The family would insist. - The goal of you to sit there and try and dictate terms. - I'm simply relaying the wishes of the Kennedy Family. - If the Kennedy Family feels so strongly about this,

why did they send you? - Do you love that? I do love that. Edge Schlossberg also said of other requests at the service for John and Carolyn.

I believe it was St. Ignatius in New York City. I think that was Jackie's church

“that non-Canadies don't utilize Kennedy's.”

That's how up his ass this guy is. He's not a Kennedy either. You're a Kennedy Ed? You're Schlossberg. Who the fuck do you think you are?

Who the fuck do you think you are? - Ask not. Ted Kennedy rushed in to do damage control. He had the remains hastily autopsy. The medical examiners report and photos,

what photos were taken. They tried to get no photos taken sealed. Then arranged for a cremation. This was before and Freeman could get there and that was deliberate.

They knew, they knew what was coming. The Kennedy's, I'm continuing,

“had little compassion for Carolyn and Lauren's family.”

John's sister Caroline and her husband Ed showed not the slightest remorse or kindness to Anne Freeman. She had lost two of her three daughters. Lauren's twin sister Lisa was now her soul surviving child.

Anne was terrified that the Kennedy's would use their power to bury what remained of Carolyn and Lauren at the family plot in Brooklyn, Massachusetts and wanted her girls close to her in Connecticut.

If she needed to have worried, the Kennedy's told Anne that they did not care. John's remains, however, belonged to them and he would be buried separately in Brooklyn. Even Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was horrified

as he wrote in a diary entry, dated July 19th, 1999. The agenda for the day was to get Carolyn and Caroline Kennedy, excuse me, John, sister, and Anne together without intermediaries so there wouldn't be too many cooks in the kitchen.

Our of Cajunior continues when Anne came down to New York City, however, Caroline didn't show. Instead, she sent her husband Ed

and Vicki Reggie to had second wife.

All the beset family knows that Ed hated Carolyn and did everything he could to make her life miserable. So by sending Ed, that's Caroline Kennedy saying to Anne Freeman, "My brother may have killed two of your three daughters, but fuck you."

I'm sending my husband who you know tried to make her life a misery. Imagine. Imagine. RFK continues.

Ed, and I quote, "This quote is seared into my frontal lobe. "He bullied, bullied, bullied. "The shattered, grieving mother." They told her, "This is RFK, Junior.

"They told her that John would be buried in Brookline

“"and that they could do with Carolyn as they pleased."”

The fucking nerve, Anne could do with her daughter, with her own daughter, her flesh and blood, whatever she pleases, the Kennedy's give them permission, as for Lauren, she doesn't matter, she doesn't matter. Here we go.

Whatever you decide to do with Carolyn's remains. - You keep saying her name, you keep saying Carolyn. May I remind you that I had not won, but two daughters onboard that plane that he crashed. - That's emotional truth, that's emotional truth,

but they gave Ed too much of a characterological glow-up. He's a piece of shit, okay? Someone's substance, just my opinion. He's a piece of shit. - Do you know that the condition of your hair, skin, nails,

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Now, here's a scene, again, this never happened.

Caroline Kennedy, I have been told directly by people who would know is a raging bitch. She is, she's a raging bitch. And this scene never happened. And in Caroline never accidentally crossed paths

at the Tribeca loft. First of all, there are an army of people and lawyers and handlers who would make sure that that never happened. And Caroline never extended a single act of decency, let alone sympathy or empathy to this poor woman

who her reckless entitled spoiled idiot of a brother killed. Here we go. Some of the media are saying they crashed because Carolyn was getting her nails done. Delayed their takeoff.

Not that your brother wasn't equipped to fly at night and took off anyway, but that she held them back. Her vanity. Are you aware of that? - She takes her head down.

- Stop reading the news. - Well, I have nothing left to protect her. - To her. - To her legacies. There are images of your brother

beaming around the world on the cover of every newspaper and magazine. Carolyn's photo is usually on the inside and Lauren is practically a footnote, but she wasn't famous.

So I guess her face doesn't sell papers. - There is emotional truth in that scene and everything that Ann is saying.

But again, Caroline never softened up and said,

"And they have Caroline here, "play by Grace Gummer. "I'm sorry, she's not a great actress. "It's not a great actress," you know, saying, "I know I seem remote and I could have done more "to help Carolyn and I didn't and I regret it

"and then she starts weeping. "Never happened, never happened." And here's another thing that never happened. Caroline comes over to Ann grabs her by the hand and floats a compromise that, again,

is shocking in its decency, which is never really exhibited by Kennedy's. Here we go.

“- I remember reading a conversation I had with John a while back”

where he said he wanted to be cremated with his ashes spread across the sea.

Carolyn and Lauren's ashes together as one?

- Ah, ah, ah, no way, never happening.

“They really did not care what happened to Lauren,”

but that's remains. In fact, Lauren had her own memorial in Connecticut and I talked to people who were there and her uncle spoke and they played "She's a Rainbow" by the Rolling Stones and, you know,

Ann is correct in that scene. Lauren, all, even now remains a footnote in her own death because of stuff like this, a show that opened by the way, Ann says they're already blaming my daughter, Carolyn,

for the plane taking off because she was getting a manicure, paddock here.

Now they spend that timeline up,

but this very show, love story opens. It's opening scene. It's opening images, Carolyn getting her nails done,

“the day of the plane crash and making her manicure”

has changed the color, thereby making her late. There's a scene in the finale where Lauren is talking to John about her being late. We're going to get to our saint, our patron saint of the nerve

and what she has to say about disabusing the culture of that bullshit. Now, at the memorial service at the funeral and Freeman did read the poem.

Death is nothing at all by Henry Scott Holland

and they do have constant Zimmer as and Freeman reading that same poem. We're just going to listen to a tiny snippet of it, because it's the end of the poem and it's the final shot of this series.

And it's very disturbing. Here we go. - Do not stand by my great and cry. I am not there. I did not.

“- And our final images are of John and Carolyn.”

Carolyn, cradled by John on a beach, just two wasps in love wearing Jake through cream-colored roll-neck sweaters, and jeans, dark wash, no detail, too small. And it's a perfect sunny day.

They're meant to be in have a nice opposed. They close their eyes for much of that shot. In repose, in permanent repose, their bodies are intact here. Looking out onto the Atlantic Ocean,

which would become their watery graves. Okay. Now, the real shit and the mainstream media that perpetuates this and we're going to embarrass them and humiliate them

until they begin correcting this fucking record. ABC News, a documentary called a documentary in quotes the last days of JFK Junior aired July 4th, 2021. This is another lie and it's uttered by Kennedy Biographer Christopher Anderson.

Here we go. - This night, he was going to be flying solo. His instructor he usually went with couldn't be there. That is a lie. There was a flight instructor on that tarmac

who offered to go up with John and John said no. I want to do this alone. It's a lie and ABC News should be ashamed of itself. For not fact-checking that lie and for allowing a Kennedy Biographer

to get on their airwaves and repeat that so that people who think that they're trying to learn as much as as actual supposedly trusted outlets will tell them are going to believe that's true. Just like so many people are believing that love story

is Bible in verse and that that's true. It's not true. Here's the last person allegedly to see them alive on the tarmac. This is aviation analyst Kyle Bailey

and this piece just ran last week on Friday, March 27th on inside edition, Kyle is going to tell us about how poor the weather conditions that by the way, John Jr. didn't check not that he needed to because the he's was visible

all around the trice state. Here we go.

He also had plans to fly to Martha's Vineyard that night but canceled because of the weather. That pretty smart Friday was as we say in aviation the three ages he's a hot and humid. He says he fear John was tempting fate.

You went home that night. What did you say? I just kind of made the off the cuff common. You know, I hope he doesn't kill himself in that airplane someday.

“You have to love that inside edition voice over.”

It's always the same on the flight.

It's like not everything should be up speak. Like not every sentence should be delivered with excitement. Okay, okay, now back to inside edition, noting that Carolyn's older sister Lauren was also on the flight. Here we go.

The crash not only took the lives of the Prince of Camelot and his bride but also Carolyn's older sister Lauren an investment banker at Morgan Stanley. The doomed flight left two families bereft with grief. bereft with grief.

I mean, is there a school they all go to? She's standing outside the Tribeca loft. She uses the phrase the Prince of Camelot sister. Wise up the Prince of Camelot and his bride. They were not together at the time of,

okay, now we're gonna look at a cockpit simulation of the flight.

“Okay, this is the most, this is the closest approximation I could get.”

No one really wants to do it because it's so disturbing

that you would never see JFK Jr. the same way again.

Am I right? Here we go. The shoreline that John had been relying on for visual references now directly behind it. There's nothing to say out of the windshield but blackness. Scanning the instruments, John realizes he has turned

about 50 degrees to the right of his course, the Martha Fender. He puts the Saratoga in a 28 degree left wind down bank to get back on course. The Saratoga clown slightly up to 2600 feet. In the 28 degree turn, the Saratoga starts descending

at 900 feet per minute. John levels the wings when he reaches a heading of 0-9-0. He calls back on Leo the momentarily slows the descent. Head movements, general turns, acceleration, deceleration, etc. All can contribute to the onset of spatial disorientation.

And the effects are starting to set in. John senses are screaming to him. He feels strongly there, craft the still turning left. The plies ride hell around to stop the turn. He's convinced something must be wrong with his instruments.

He doesn't want to be seen. He pulls back on Leo, he's still descending. He pulls harder and hands full power. John wasn't past the point of no return yet. Recoveries from unusual attitudes are practiced in primary

flight training and instrument flight time, but they are practiced in daylight without the hideous effects of full-blown spatial disorientation. He knows down steep turn, power on, unusual attitude can be recovered from quickly if the pilot can rapidly interpret

and completely trust what his instruments are telling. We can hear the engine is racing, the VSI showing it descent. The alchemiters winding down the air speeds in the rear, the heading speed riding. We're in a hospede diving right turn.

Pulling back on Leo can't stop the descent. At this point, only calls it's the faint angle. The right turn and those down angle can increase into the classic graveyard spiral. So that pilot right there is saying experience pilots know how to get out of this.

They could have been saved, but John couldn't do it because he didn't know how to fly properly.

He didn't know how to fly using his instruments and it's so crucial

because when you're in that spatial disorientation, the instruments are that your body, your ear drums, everything is telling you your senses that what you're feeling is real

“and that the instruments are wrong and you have to learn”

how to override that and say despite what my senses are telling me, the instruments are correct and I do think this was a murder suicide. I do, I lay out why and ask not, here the pilot is going to tell us how John could have gotten out of that death spiral. If only he knew what he was doing, here we go.

What we must do is save our lives as we lose power. While some will paylessly leveling the wings for better runs, only after the wins are leveled, do we pull back slightly only out that he's been those up and arrested the descent? When the descent has stopped, we can add power back in, continue to ease the

nose up to climb to safety. Okay, now we're going to listen to a chief navy diver

We're going to listen to part of his first appearance on the Marco Ruta exchanges podcast

on November 11th, 2024. He says that they were down on the ocean floor diving for one week. That is a very long time to retrieve everything. They were still down there while the service where they were spreading the cremains in the ocean on a navy aircraft carrier or destroyer, whatever it is,

which by the way, an obscenity, it's not for civilians and you're not supposed to be dumping cremains off of military, ocean craft. But they're Kennedy's, they do whatever the fuck they want.

“Anyway, they all had to stay down there for so long, you know why?”

Because the Kennedy family was worried that there would be trophy hunters

who would find like a piece of one of their belongings and Joshua basically says wind up in a

bar going, look what I got, you know, you can't have that kind of like mortification. I mean, the guy like killing these two women isn't like a mortification. It's like that there might be trophy hunters out there. Anyway, anyway, the diver, listen to the diver talk about which body part, and now we're doing this because it's necessary because there are obscenities like Ryan Murphy's love story in the culture.

Because there are things like this. This is the cover of People This Week.

“This is why the nerve exists, and this is why we have to talk about the grizzly truth.”

It's not romantic. It's not cool. It's not aspirational. Here we go. One detail was that JFK juniors' legs were, some people will say they were inside of them from impact. Unfortunately, we found the kneecap in the cockpit dashboard, so you don't really, that doesn't really happen when something goes inside of you. So they were very mangled. The kneecap. The kneecap in the cockpit. He didn't say the lower half of the leg upper half

of the leg. You got to listen very closely to what Joshua says and when he doesn't say, I was doing this like all last night like playing these clips over and over and over as I was cutting them because I was, the more you hear them, the more you get in tune with what he's not saying. These bodies, the parts that weren't, I'll get to that. They were blown apart. They were blown apart. There was part of the kneecap in the panel in the cockpit.

Now Joshua was going to talk about after the bodies, the bodies, the remains, like what little remained of these people. They had the burial at sea and all of that. They were still down there. One of the divers found another body part and, again, listen very carefully to how he relays this and then we're going to talk about what he left out here. Here we go. We found, I'd place a quarter size of a scalp that of blonde hair that had been wrapped around

her umbilical and so you know you're kind of putting your hose away to be done with the dive and one of the divers said, on top side I have you know this substantial size scalp down here and at one point everyone was kind of like well what do we do? It's you know make a decision

and basically you're just the top side diver said, "No you didn't." And so the diver below,

basically kind of unwound it from this velcro boot that we utilize for chafing gear and just let it go into the open ocean and essentially barrel at sea, right? That's where the other bodies were so this piece just kind of went away. The first time I heard that we played this part

“on a very early nerve. I think we did it last summer when CNN was doing their hegeography of”

John Jr., what a great fucking die. I thought when he said a quarter of a scalp like I thought he meant like it was shaped like a quarter like it was about the size of like a quarter and

of the whole. So like one fourth of the like a substantial piece and what he isn't saying there

is that they knew it was carol and scalp because when they recovered her body she was missing

“a piece of that scalp. It matched the piece that was missing on her head because I think her head”

wasn't there and I don't think they found it. Now these divers you know I came to know while I was writing American predator, this guy named Bobby Chacon, Chacon, who was the head of a dive team in LA for the FBI and we talked extensively about what they do and how they do it and these guys are

beasts and we are so lucky they belong to us. They are beasts. What Joshua doesn't say about the

extreme difficulty and danger of dives like these. These are more people who JFK Jr. with his recklessness and entitlement put in mortal danger as reported by CNN and published on July 21st 1919 sorry 1999 the day the wreckage was located and I quote the ocean depth in that area of the Atlantic Ocean is about 115 feet visibility is only about six to eight feet. The water temperature is about 52 degrees Fahrenheit dives are limited to about 15 minutes. It takes them a lot longer to get

up than to get down because of the bends. Joshua came back for another episode that aired on December

12th 2025 so just before love story was about to premiere. Now he said that he can speak about this because the military back then did not require them to sign NDA's for this assignment. You know and he's also like I don't understand why that Y Navy divers were called in for civilians. I still don't get it. There are orders from their superiors were not to talk to the press like and when they went out that night or at night like at bars like everyone would know they were like people from out of town and

not tourists and so to watch out for like all the media people who are going to be blanketing those bars and like going hey what do you know what did you see? But so anyway he feels like he can speak

“about it now and that it's important to speak about it and thank God for Joshua Benjamin's thank God.”

Here he relates with the NTSB investigator above the water said the minute they found the propeller and they can watch above the water they're watching the ROV those cameras down below as they find what they find here we go. One thing that we do recall is when we pulled up the main main fuselage where it had the actual propeller still there the one NTSB representative that was on board ship with us seen every single piece in part of it clearly looked right at the propeller

and he immediately almost knew yeah that plane was at full throttle when it was hitting the water just by the way the shape of the bent and yeah this is their profession they just know these

“looks to them and that's what his words alone. Yep he was at full throttle when he hit.”

So much for the mild turbulence Ryan Murphy depicted in his season finale so much for that romantic said it's at in the cockpit the cock pit you know Ryan sorry Joshua says the plane hit the water at about 120 miles per hour that's like hitting concrete he talks about the NTSB trying to assemble what was left of the broken wreckage of that plane in a warehouse he also talks about this is graphic but we have to talk about it. He saw JFK Junior's face smashed

into the cockpit control panels from the ROV camera below one whole side of that plane was just sure and off it was gone the wings were gone it was laying on his side the back seats were Carolyn and Lauren had been seated we're folded up he said like an old flip phone so these bodies the divers had to unfold the seats and then they picked up big pieces of the plane and what was

the real state of John Junior's body and remember in that first interview he said some people say

“that John's legs were shoved up into his torso on impact now Josh was going to tell you where”

he got that little talking point here we go how how about where the bodies very bad mangled absolutely for sure for sure JFK Junior was in half his actual upper torso was when we first all the video we saw him up against the cockpit when the when we got down there to remove his bodies off out of the wreckage his whole torso had fallen off of the cockpit and when it's physically laying on the sand at that point okay I got a little bit ahead of myself um but note in that

he says torso first of all that's this is what water does to bodies you know it like they come apart there's animal life down there you know they blow they distend he says torso so at first the torso was upright in the cockpit and then by the time they got down there it had fallen out of the plane onto the ocean floor what he doesn't say is the torso in the head

“I believe he too was decapitated okay now we get to the how he got the talking point about”

something that's I think probably physically impossible the legs getting jammed up into his torso why they thought this would sound better than the real thing I've got no idea but that's a cultural and historical sickness freeer here we go so legs still in cockpit so legs were um not in the

cockpit and come later on we searched for the legs legs were never recovered legs never recovered

legs only top half of the body top half I didn't know that yes yep it's very interesting only top half and I think I said earlier where we were kind of like advised to if ever asked just say that was exactly one of the key points that we got told to say his legs got pushed up inside of him

“the other the other guy who's conducting this interview we hear him speak there he says I'm a”

personal injury lawyer and I've seen just about every contortion a catastrophic accident can do to a body and I've never heard of such a thing now Joshua was going to talk about being ordered to go searching again more people in danger for what go search for John's legs because they're not there here we go but what was crazy was one of the dyes we had to do they said we don't have his legs go look for him so again we got told to say this but we had we also got told

to go look for the legs and we know for sure that and I'm sure the odd tops is out there too somebody is not where it is I don't know but I guarantee an optopsy would say well there was no legs inside of him as as a personal injury attorney I can tell you the legs inside of him thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me I mean I've seen just about any type of accident that you can name and that doesn't add up right and a and a moving propeller right there in front of you going

at that speed whatever makes a lot of sense that that just lobbed right in half

the autopsy report was covered up by Ted Kennedy I'm sure it was burned we've never seen it

so historical document all three and you know why I'll see how it burned because they knew that Anne Freeman was going to sue the living shit out of the Kennedy's and you know she couldn't have the kind of evidence that would have gotten her not just a payday for the ages they wound up settling with her for 15 million dollars and by the way and it's been reported that Anne who is still with us there there's a there's a misconception out there that there's another woman named Anne Freeman who

has since passed away but it's not it's not their mother she's still with us it's been reported that she forever regretted allowing herself in her shock and grief to get convinced by the Kennedy's to cremate her daughters with John that she wished that she had had their remains buried near where she and her husband live in Connecticut so that she would have a place to go visit them we're pressed a little bit for time I'm going to skip over this clip but he does talk about

among the divers they were kind of like is there should we take something like you know you know

“and like being ordered not to not to and we will end on Joshua talking about the decision”

to release that piece of scalp and I can think of someone who would have wanted I am sure every bit of her daughters remains but they couldn't have this besmirch the otherwise pristine legacy of one genre of Kennedy Jr. here we go it was pretty obvious that the scalp was

from a portion of the fuselage that it did 100% it was it was long blonde hair and it matched the

description of the one female that we had recovered earlier and so it was just said that this is not

“a scalp of another plane crash or anybody else this came from this plane crash and again those”

bodies are already cremated and released the sea so this piece will be released to the sea that shows you how little of those bodies were recoverable none of those bodies were intact none of them we're going to end this segment on real photos of the wreckage of that Piper Saratoga the John Jr. crashed these are real the plane was brought up from the bottom by the NTSB and put together as best as possible in order to determine what happened that night and we're

going to show you them there for them and this is the real story and we cannot leave it to hacks like Ryan Murphy to do just really just commit such sacrilege to the memories of innocence who were killed in this and a culture that props up people like JFK Jr. because this is what we get in the end this is what we get for making these people into absolute untouchables and when we're through showing these photos we will see you on the other side with trouble maker feedback

we are back in a minute troublesmakers are banks caching your interest checks while you are buried in debt PDS debt can help PDS debt has freed hundreds of thousands of people from credit card

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cultural offenders tiger woods we are getting to it we need a much larger like just segment in which to do it we're doing it this week do not worry this by the way is his fourth car wreck since

“I believe 2009 is that right Marlena she says I'm right this again is why the nerve exists there is a”

celebrity culture propping up shit like this it's the nerve will not abide the nerve will not abide it now we're going to take a look at Angelina Jolie attending a Tom Ford event on March 29 in Shanghai China I'm sure she was caught very nice check to fly all that way something is very very off here

people going oh it's like jet lag or maybe she got like too much bow talks in her left eye

“she looks high as fuck to me okay she looks high as a kite let's get real okay now we are going to”

go to trouble maker feedback oh many reactions from the youtube channel one youtube comment when Hoda interviewed Savannah it looked like she was contorting her face trying to cry but still somehow looked like there was almost a smile going on to it was strange indeed another

comment Hoda always looks like she's about to burst out laughing agreed agreed one more the word

joy now makes me want to vomit we are going to have more to say about what's going on over at the today's show definitely with Rob he's got all the behind the scenes intel okay now the only part from a trouble maker named Amy from Alabama oh I love that alliteration Amy from Alabama the subject line the only part when Hoda seemed to really cry in the Savannah interview all hail trouble maker in chief Amy thank you I have been a silent watcher slash listener since the

beginning she writes um she also thinks us for sharing the adorable Teddy Van Halen how could I

not the guy is a ham he's such a ham regarding Hoda's interview I could not help but notice the

only tears the felt real and we're definitely the most substantive ones not just grunts and sniffles came at the end of the interview when they discussed ellipsis dot dot dot Savannah's return to the today show so clever trouble maker Amy tells us everything poor Hoda did not do a good imitation of caring about Savannah and this whole nightmare situation with her mother plus I read cohost Craig was stunned at not getting the interview that that is the reporting this is how this is how

diseased it is over at the today show Craig was furious that he didn't get the sit down furious he's like a shit what happened to Savannah's mother he just wants the interview but I think you have to give us shit about what happened to Savannah's mother in order to even be in the running for

“that interview that's how fucked up they all are it totally explains why Craig was slouched on that”

couch we showed it in the mini after those those Hoda clips aired on today of her interview and Savannah's weeping and struggling and you know and Craig it's like pass him another beer he's watching the game he was so put out you know and now now Savannah trust me Savannah know if I know this and you know this Savannah knows this Savannah's gonna go back and sit next to Craig on that set she for fucking real Craig my man you might be in danger deservedly so

subject line the nerve makes me feel like I found my table at the cafeteria this warms my cold dead heart my friend this is a troublemaker Lisa who has written before moring um so glad that the nerve exists the nerve really does have a laying wide open for real talk on the culture agreed

“now she writes I remember back when nutmeg Megan Markle was poised as the next best thing”

with her guest editing UK Vogue and it was like if you didn't like her there was something wrong

with you trust me Lisa I know this well I was one of the first American journalist to write that

I thought she was full of shit you know that got me it got me called a racist okay or when Lena Dunham was supposed to be the savior for us weird edgy punk girls who write and if you didn't like her or rocks and gay sister you are singing my song you were a misogynist or your fat phobic I thought I was alone for not loving these people back in their hate days and now I see I wasn't indeed I feel like I found my table at the cafeteria even if I watch alone knowing that there are

so many of us who call out celebrity bullshit and are not just going to open our mouths to take what's being spoon fed to us by Hollywood creeps gives me hope in this crazy mixed up world same Lisa I am so glad we have all found each other uh trouble maker L in Paris and she signs off much like our beloved armando does she is a self-described author slash bon vivant slash dork in

the culture seems to be waking up finally and realizing that his mister nice guy persona is a complete

“sham just my opinion in addition to the way he has exploited women like Brittany and Janet Jackson”

I agree with this opinion the clips of homeless people used during his wedding were absolutely disgusting I could not agree with you more Jessica Biel should not be given a pass either I could not agree with you more because trouble maker Damian writes this we've heard from him before you'll you'll remember who he is when I get to the next part Damian writes if my significant other thought that that this was way in any way amusing I would be walking out the door not up the

aisle agreed I think I mentioned before you did that I work as a solicitor that's wear in the UK

and drunk driving is based on my experience one of the most selfish crimes you can commit one of the worst cases I had to litigate involved a 10 year old boy killed by someone who got behind

“the wheel after a few glasses of wine I will never forget how completely broken his parents were”

and this Damian in London is why we are going all the fucking way in on tiger fucking woods I don't want to hear it I don't want to hear it poor tiger fuck out okay an interesting and fun diversion high mooring thank you for keeping politics out of your show as best you can our pleasure we want to be your oasis it is a very dark and scary world out there you know at least we can do something about the cultural offenders that Hollywood and the media

industrial complex try to prop up in front of us we're already moving the needle guys as discussed look at to no further than one timetable some along a ding-dong mori mori in my queen oh I love it

“you certainly hit the nail on the head regarding the innuendo dialogue innuendo filled dialogue”

in love story at their therapy session in the finale when Carolyn says I can't be the third person

in our marriage it brings to mind princess Diana's interview where she says there were three people in this marriage I am so happy this non love story is ending it is so painful to watch it is so far from the truth how America has fallen for the shit is beyond me um dear mori and loyal troublemaker from day one I would like to see this as a regular feature maybe Sundays someday on the nerve um it begs for a title such as hit a nerve or the nerve to tell it like it is she is a

voracious reader has read asked not a couple of others of mine she would like us to do a book club and I am really all for this um we have been thinking about this for a while now our real you know I recommended Jonathan Franzans crossroads last summer um and a lot of you wrote to me about how much you then went and got it and loved it which made me so happy I love Jonathan Franzan um we're gonna do of course Rob's book which I don't know if you guys saw this but Rob posted over the

weekend his book it started with a whisper his debut novel is number one on Amazon's pre-orders number one trouble makers we did it we did it his book is gonna make the New York Times best seller list I don't want to jinx it but I'm pretty sure it is and that is our inaugural book club pick we can talk to the author ourselves how happy are we hi morey since you have two palms I thought I would share the loss of my heart my little girl pearl I am so sorry it's this trouble maker Nancy

almost 15 years ago I adopted her eight weeks from a disreputable seller she was covered in fleas and was sick with cattle cough this six pound hugable ball of fur was with me through thick and thin and I was hoping she would enter her 16th year but she looked up at me the other day and said I am sorry it's time to go I am one of your senior troublemakers and 80 years on earth brings many joys and losses losing pearl was equally as wrenching as many others I cannot imagine

ever getting as much love and devotion from another pet as anyone who knew pearl adored her

he belonged to a very hollowed club of dog lovers here at the nerve and many of you write in when you're beloved beloved animals cross the rainbow bridge I think of melly right now and you know she wrote in when she lost her beloved so we are with you Nancy we are with you you will get through this and you gave pearl clearly a great life what a gift what a gift you gave that little girl dear marine I highly recommend the ghost and miss is mure not to be confused with

the vape tv show you know I've never seen this film this is about jean tyranny who I love and

“whose memoir I'm still I'm slowly reading it because her life is extraordinary this movie showcases”

miss tyranny's extraordinary beauty she she really looks like nobody else and her talent for light comedy as well as her ability to break your heart and she loves us talking about classic movies and says it's so important to remember them and I could not agree more final trouble maker email we're gonna get to it probably couple episodes definitely this week because we're at a time we're at a time we were gonna do it in seablock with another treat so we just have to

pun to to another show but I promise you guys because it's too good and this one will not stand alone okay

“this this segment will involve our our patron saint hi marine she is dig in the nerve thank you”

an ex new yorker now in the california bay area having lived in queens and worked in the city for 20 years so watching you just makes me so homesick listen I'll just I'll make you feel a little bit better in the york right now you're not missing much okay not sure if you saw on the new york times dot com I did trouble maker age I did there is an article about carol rads will in the style section full of name dropping pretentiousness and self righteous diatribes that she's sick

of talking about jfk junior in carol and beset wow lying much um I saw it tore it out

“texted marlana immediately and um we're gonna get into it and my favorite thing about this number one”

this really was a pretext for the times which is getting a little nervey I will give them credit

to um going on her about like her friendship with glean max well it's amazing we're gonna talk about it

with the other great part of the pieces um carols like you know once upon a time it felt to me in sub and substance you know what I'm saying to protect the legacies of jfk junior in carol and beset you know on my bony scrawny little shoulders it was all up to me and um but I didn't think it was gonna mean I would do it forever and now it's become such a burden like now she's a real fool on fucking martyr and she's coming back to real housewives of New York City oh my god you

guys we're gonna feast on this cultural carcass forever that does it that does it for our Tuesday edition of the nerve come back and see us tomorrow for the nerve at night if you haven't already check out our sub stack at the nerveshow.com be sure to subscribe plus grab some nerve merch for yourself a fellow troublemaker a convert you're looking to bring in it's all over there at shop the nerve.com we will see you back here in less than 20 no it's a little more than 24 hours it's the

nerve at night but we will see you back here tomorrow at the nerve where you will never guess what we're

about to say next