Jon Hamm's Well-Deserved Emmy Snub, Taylor Swift's Girl Drama, & Noah Wyle's Bad Behavior

Hello and welcome to your Tuesday edition of the nerve.

“I am your host, Maureen Callahan, and oh, man, do we have a great show for you today and”

we will be revisiting a bit, the unprecedented mini that we dropped over the weekend, that was inspired by Andy Cohen, one Andrew Cohen blocking the nerve from social media and not just the nerve, but yours truly, Marlena, our segment producer. So we gave him a good walloping for like a good hour, and we probably have more in the tank. We're still blocked. Can you believe it? We're going to talk to Rob Shooter

about it on the nerve at night. But for today's show, today's show, we are going to

address last week's Emmy nominations, and this will be in advance of our second Emmy

“live stream, Red Carpet Live Stream, the September, the pit dominated. It has 25 nominations,”

HBO Max's, the pit. I have a lot to say about Noah Wiley, who you're not getting the real story about from the mainstream media. Same with another famous actor who was snubbed, and while the mainstream media asks, why? Why was that actor snubbed by the Academy? What could be the reason? I'll tell you. I'll tell you, and we're going to prove, once again, that the nerve is moving the culture, we were not done when it came

to Shyamalama Ding Dong. Oh, no, no, no, my troublemakers. We are only getting started. Okay. And we're going to celebrate some of our favorite shows that did make the cut. Then

“we've got incredible troublemaker feedback, including, and I as soon as I read this to you,”

I am putting it right on Teddy's desk, right on his desk. We have a new hot lead in our ongoing, open missing persons investigation slash silver alerts regarding Steadman Graham.

And then we are so excited. We have two first time guests that we think you're going

to love. They are so good. They are two sisters. Their names are Lauren Atkinson and Chandler Bloodsoe. And they have a really great podcast called Pop Apologists. And these girls go deep. They are Talmudic scholars when it comes to pop culture and celebrity culture. And what's really going on underneath the veneer. They are going to join us with their takes. They did a take on Taylor Swift and her wedding. That is so original. And that again, you're

like, why would the, why would the mainstream media not entertain this? They're dying for clicks and eyeballs. They're dying for relevance. We got it. Some of you may know it is the gay or theory. You'll die. You'll die. They're also going to give us their takes on Blake and psycho arsonist Ryan Reynolds. And if there's any way back for them, Ryan Murphy's love story. I came across them. They wound up in my feet actually because they've been doing

a few episodes that are deep dives on my book Ask Not. And I was like, wow, I was, I was really impressed and really humbled and honored. And so they've got thoughts about love story as well. So it's a bang or it's a bang or if we may say, okay, trouble makers, it is time to ask, are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. Skincare advertising usually relies on hype, but one skin delivers real science formulated by

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Tell them you're a trouble maker and that the nerve sent you.

Okay we did not have time last week to get into it. It is packed. It is like we are in the ultimate

“traffic jam of cultural criminal offenders and trouble makers. We've got a new one to introduce.”

Noah Wiley from the Hollywood reporter by Hillary Lewis published July 8th, 2026, 13 snubs and surprises from the Emmy Noms, 2026, the nerve is moving the culture. Now before we get to know it, we must discuss John Hamm. This is this is the guy I was talking about in the intro. The whole, I swear to you, the access Hollywood is the entertainment tonight, the people mags, the us weeklies, the celebrity friendly blogs, they're all like how is it that

John Hamm got snubbed. The professionally handsome limited actor John Hamm for the highly,

“I'm sorry, highly mediocre Apple TV show, your friends and neighbors, which belongs to the”

relatively new genre of filthy rich people behaving badly. That's it. That's the genre. It's a pretty, it's a pretty flat examination of suburban on-way. Now, I'm going to venture, I guess, S.2y. And I find this very gratifying and I do think we all are moving the culture. I really do. And we're getting more and more proof, often submitted by you guys, that there are trouble makers within the various celebrity cast system that we dismantle just about every episode.

The nerves inaugural episode, which I had to brace myself to go back and look at to pull this clip

because I was so nervous that first episode, I was so, so nervous and I looked at it and

I looked at, you know, I gave myself a little slack. But anyway, so that first episode, we talked about who John Hamm really is. Nobody ever talks about it and it's out there for anyone to find it's out there. When John Hamm was in college, he belonged to a fraternity and he was the ringleader allegedly reportedly, but there is an absolute interview with his victim. A young, at the time, a young man named Mark Allen Sanders, who John Hamm nearly savagely killed during frat hazing.

And the precipitating event setting off John's fury, his utter fury with this young man, was that this young man, Mark Allen, had failed to properly recall John Hamm's nickname in that frat, which was MC Hammer. This extract is just a part, just a small part of the horror that went on that night. This is from an interview that Hamm's victim, Mark Allen Sanders, gave to investigators at Travis County's attorney's office and this attack was perpetrated against Mark Allen Sanders in 1990.

Here we go. Somebody's walking on his back, okay. Forcible pushups face in the dirt, walking on his back, then this is where we pick up, quote, "I'm told to stand up." So I get up on my knees again. Obviously, he can't even stand up. And this is when John Hamm pulls out a later and he puts his later on, and I was wearing designer jeans, name-redacted, and I have this loop on the front, and he

I mean, my chin is in the chest at this point. I see him light the lighter and put it to my pants. Did he say anything when he did that question? Mark, yeah, he said something. I don't remember what it was. I tried to put out the fire immediately. Question with your hand. Mark, yeah, with my hand, but he knocked my hands away. Question, John Hamm knocked your hands. Mark, yes, John Hamm knocked my hand away. And I was kind of panicking because I was wearing a cotton T-shirt. He could feel the heat.

I actually tried to put it out with my hand. This is Mark again, and he, John Hamm wouldn't let me. He made me blow it out with my mouth. So the fire is put out, but John Hamm's not done. Now he's picked up a hammer.

“Now, I think this is important to continue to revisit and remind people about because John Hamm”

has never expressed, contrition or regret. And in fact, I believe the only time he's really

addressed it was when he was asked to point blank about it. I believe in an interview for GQ magazine. And John Hamm called it, and like this quote is seared into my frontal lobe because it's so callous and heartless. And to me is the utterance of a psychopath. John Hamm called it, quote, a bummer of a thing that happened. Note the passive language. Like, you got to dial into every word, especially when it comes to criminal minds. John Hamm is one. This is, I learned this when I was

reporting American predator from all the FBI agents and this, like, the psychology, a bummer of a thing,

“a thing. That's a, that word minimizes what was an hour's long salvage attack that almost left”

him dead that young man. That happened. That happened. It's passive. It was something that happened, not something John Hamm did. The, the hammer he picked up was a claw hammer. You know what he did with that, he, he, he's, he's cinched that young man's genitals and started dragging him around the room. I get furious every time, I shouldn't, you know what, it makes sense that Andy Cohen, fucking loves John Hamm. Fucking loves John Hamm. He, he, he's googly eyed every time John

Hamm is on his set. It drives me fucking nuts when I see the likes of Tina Fey and Amy Polar getting googly eyed over John Hamm. John Hamm nearly killed that young man who, who, in the

“aftermath, almost lost a major organ reported that he still had trouble breathing, breathing,”

because he was beaten so viciously that part of his lung would get caught in between his ribcage, the bones are there. And it would cause him severe pain. Mark Allen Sanders grew up to become a doctor and a lawyer, a true contributing member of society. Maybe the, maybe there were voters in the academy who saw that episode of the nerve and who know what a piece of shit John Hamm really is. Just a guess, just a guess. He's not even a great actor. He gets by on his looks. He's very

limited. He's one note and he's always playing a prick. As I've said in the town in Ben Affleck's

the town, great movie, John Hamm turns the FBI agent in charge into a prick. He's supposed to be the good guy. June 17th, 2025, and an interview for W Magazine, when he was promoting the rollout of your friends and neighbors season one, this is John Hamm on making bad behavior look good. And we were sent this false, we're not going to replay the clip. We played it again last summer, but a trouble maker sent me this screen grab with the comments underneath. John Hamm on making bad behavior look

good, top comment. Like when he set someone on fire in college, as we said before, psycho arsonist Ryan has competition among his celebrity cohort for arsonists and people who like to set

other things and people on fire, now two hour knowledge Ryan has never actually set another human

being on fire. Metaphorically did he in Blake try to set fire to Justin Baldonis career. Yes, of course, but I think that John Hamm may be in the lead here because he actually set fire to another

that they would have to blow it out while wearing God, you know, I just I would like to be done with John Hamm, but as long as the celebrity industrial complex continues to prop him up and whatever hair piece he's wearing, it's a good hair piece, allegedly reportedly, the nerves here to do to do what, you know, whatever God you believe and put us on this greener to do. Now onto another bully, Noah Wiley, Noah Wiley. This is the access Hollywood coverage again, access Hollywood is dead,

“like their last episode is airing, I think in September or October, they wonder why, they wonder why,”

we'll tell you, we'll tell you why, access Hollywood's coverage of the pits 25 Emmy nominations and Noah Wiley's for outstanding lead actor. Here is their coverage, which we will of course follow with the nerves. We'll talk about fake people. Here we go. Noah Wiley swept award season last year, making history and if you ask me, he's going to do the same thing this year. Oh, I mean, it's so artificial and still to and weird. First of all, I have no idea who this anonymous celebrity

reporter sitting on the access set, giving an interview to a producer instead of talking directly into the camera to you and me, the audience at home, that whole thing, it's so artificial and weird and still to it. And secondly, she seems way too invested in Noah Wiley and like the pits Emmy sweep. If you ask me, he's going to make history again, who writes this shit? Who gives the shit? Okay, the pit season two was not great. They really bought into their hype. Okay, I have many

things to say about it, but let's get to Noah. First things first, Noah Wiley by his own admission was a raging bully back when he was on ER, which is the show that made him a star. That show, which was groundbreaking for its time and really, really, really well done, they did. They also

“really experimented with the form. They did a live episode, which I believe they did twice,”

once live for the East Coast and again live for the West Coast. I believe. And then when Quentin Tarantino was kind of at the height of his cultural impact, he directed an episode of VR. So that was a huge deal. That was before streaming. Really, we're streaming began to level the idea, the playing fields between television and movies, prior to streaming, television was

always regarded as completely inferior to film. Like, either you were a film actor or you were nothing.

So anyway, that's a little thumbnail sketch of ER and what a huge deal that show was. And that's show really belonged to two actors, two actors, George Clooney and Noah Wiley. Okay, Juliana Margulis to an extent, but she was a supporting female character, really there to make the George Clooney character more sympathetic. Now, nothing seems to have changed. Regarding Noah's comportment and behavior on set, even though you would think that Noah Wiley

being out in the cultural wilderness for decades, would have chasing him, would have maybe had him change his ways. You know, when good actors don't get hired, this is usually the reason why they're too fucking difficult. They're assholes. Nobody wants to work with them. I'm going to quote from Noah, there was no video of this. The Hollywood reporter should really

always have video of every interview they do, especially a lengthy one like this.

The Hollywood Reporter published April 23rd, 2019 by Jean Bentley. Now, this is before the pit.

“Noah had done, I think it was like a mini series, it might have been a Stephen King mini series.”

Noah Wiley on quitting ER. And I quote, this is Noah, when I came, oh, no, to someone, I think this is Gordon Vishnick. Okay, Gordon Vishnick. What I believe is a Croatian actor. He was hired to replace its Gordon Vishnick. Excuse me, Vishnick. And I think he's Croatian. He came on to replace George Clooney, when George Clooney fulfilled his contract and then left to become a movie star. And that was on the bubble, by the way, just in the side, you know, Stephen Spielberg,

if I recall correctly, had told George Clooney that he could become a movie star, but he had to

get rid of this acting Tiki had, which was like, has had a lot like this. It was always like this.

He's Doug Ross, the womanizing alcoholic pediatrician with a heart of gold. And he had, he was like a bubble head. It was like a bubble head on the dashboard of your car, just he couldn't keep his head still. And I think he got an under control and he became a movie star. Anyway, Noah Wiley did

Gordon Vishnick, who, uh, gorgeous, gorgeous and had real acting chops, came onto the show.

And he was such a replacement for George Clooney that they had him get together with the Julianna Margieli's character. And Noah says, quote, I had a chip on my shoulder.

“I had a chip on my shoulder with anybody that came onto that show. He says, do I believe this?”

No, but this is what he says. I've systematically gone to and apologize to everybody over the years about being the person that I was. Everybody does that include the crew, the long-suffering crew, it doubt it. But I think we're only talking about fellow actors. That's all that really matters. I think to the likes of Noah Wiley, I continue picking up his quote, apologizing about being the person that I was, which was, you better come to play. You better

bring your A game. This is pro ball, blah, blah, blah. And it was not an easy environment to work in, because we didn't suffer fools. Now, he's grouping in a lot of other people. We were really hard on people. And I was hard on people that were coming into the show, like Eric Paladino or Michael Michelle. Everybody had to earn their keep in my opinion, especially poor Kelly Martin. Kelly Martin who had become famous on a show called Life Goes On was hired on ER and Noah Wiley

said about making Kelly Martin's life a misery on that set. Noah continues, I owe her, meaning Kelly a big apology. Gordon, when he first came on and then I realized that he was a way better actor than I was, also the source of the rage. Gordon, Noah says, performed Hamlet in Dubrovnic. Dubrovnic, am I saying that correctly? In front of thousands of European screaming fans,

he was the real deal I hated him. Because I always felt like I was losing a scene to him.

You know, a healthier person with a healthy ego and some decency would have gotten themselves into therapy, like cognitive behavioral to figure out how to deal with this. And probably would have been very quick to realize that if you have a scene partner who's better than you, they're going to lift you up. They're going to make you look better. But Noah is a small man. He really is. Again, I'll say it again. Noah says, I hated him because I always felt like I was losing a scene to him.

The Kelly Martin character, Kelly Martin, he again, he made her life such how it was like an open secret in Hollywood to this day. It really is about what he and her character was written onto the show to become something of Noah Wiley's character's proteche, Carter, Carter's proteche. You know how they wrote her off? They had Carter and Kelly Martin's character brutally stabbed by like a schizophrenic patient. Brutally brutally stabbed. Guess who lived?

Noah Wiley's character lived. But they had Kelly Martin brutally stabbed. And listen,

“that's how you know either an actor is getting revenge against an actor. They don't like,”

or a writer's room is getting revenge. I guarantee you, I will bet you, I would bet you money that Noah Wiley pushed for that storyline and to have her character written off in a sadistic, brutal, humiliating way. Okay, so now we're back, we're back with the pit, which is ER on steroids. Okay, it's ER in an inner city emergency room. And they're being sued by the estate of Michael Creighton. Noah Wiley and John Wells. John Wells is an exec on this show.

If he didn't help create it, and John Wells was responsible for ERs as well, which was a

Michael Creighton brainchild. I mean, you know, at first I was like, I don't really know who to

believe, but now knowing what a piece of shit Noah Wiley is, I believe the Creighton estate,

“I do, I believe the Creighton estate. Almost exactly seven years later, the Daily Mail,”

where I call him twice a week, published April 2nd, 2026 by Justin Enriquez and Diana Cooper, headline, the pit star exits Noah Wiley led show in massive cash shake up after bullying rumors rocked set. I read from that report. A massive cash shake up for any winning series, the pit amid turmoil centered around star Noah Wiley, including ugly bullying rumors. Supria Ganesh, who is portrayed senior resident doctor Samira Mohan, since the beginning of

the series, will be exiting the highly popular HBO Max series at the conclusion of season two.

this season on the pit. Noah's character was an absolute bully to Ganesh's character as well.

“An absolute fucking monstrous bully. Another cast member on the pit implies that Noah thinks”

that he's a doctor in real life too, because he plays one on TV. He's televisions Noah Wiley. He's been playing a doctor now for like 30 years. He's picked up a trick or two. From a Daily Mail plus exclusive published March 6th, 2026, again, this is by Diana Cooper. Another actress spoke about Noah. Suspissions peaked. This is from Diana's piece and I quote Suspissions peaked last summer when Shabana Aziz, who plays doctor Victoria Javadi,

revealed Wiley's habit for mispronouncing her name in, I quote, multiple interviews.

Here's Aziz and I quote, he's called me Shabina Aziz, which is not my name.

“She said at an event for the show. That's that's that's balls. She said a promotional event”

for the show and she's calling out the star of the show for being a prick. Continuing on furthermore, she appeared to publicly criticize him during an interview with KTLA in January when she was asked if their time on the show, meaning the cast collectively, has afforded them enough knowledge to be able to offer medical advice in real life. KTLA get better questions. Her answer, quote, stop letting these actors tell you, yeah, we can't

know a can't save lives. He's an actor. Actors cannot intubate. I love it. Honorary trouble maker. Honorary trouble maker. Now my other note about the pit before we go on to a couple of other Emmy-related topics. Catherine La Nasa, who is married to Grant Show, late of Melrose Place.

Melrose Place, excuse me. And Grant Show looks exactly the same. He's still gorgeous. It's incredible.

So she, anyway, got the career break of a lifetime. She was just like a jobbing actor on the pit. And it was like, where's this woman been? She exploded. The problem with the pit season two is that everybody drank their own cool aid. They believed every single glowing thing that was written about the pit. And the the note most commonly made about Catherine La Nasa's performance as nurse Dana, who is the nurse who basically runs the pit, was that she had nailed this like elusive

Pittsburgh accent. Now I have a friend of many, many years who comes from Pittsburgh and does not have an accent. I don't know that there is a specific regional accent in Pittsburgh. But whatever the case may be, Catherine La Nasa turned that accent up to like 20. You know how spinal tap was like our amps go to 11. And Rob Reiner was like the amps only go to time and they were like yeah, but ours go to 11. Catherine La Nasa turned this accent up to 20. It's like she's

doing a camp performance. Only she doesn't know it. I was like, you know, it's tough. She's the tough nurse who's the only one who's allowed to tell off. No, a wily. Here she is telling off a patient laying in the hallway of the pit. Here we go. Hey, I'm waiting for an hour. What am I going to see a fucking doctor? Excuse me! Perhaps you didn't see this, but she's strange because they're all over the place. Aggressive behavior toward healthcare workers is a felony. $2,000 of fine possible

jail time got it. $2,000 fine possible jail time got it. She sounds like Jimmy Cagney and like what is this? Okay. Now, notable also. Ryan Murphy's All Fair, which was so unwatchable. I couldn't get through more than 15 minutes of it. And I enjoy good bad TV. Do you know what I mean? This is just bad TV. It got two nominations. Meanwhile, Taylor Sheridan's landman and the Madison were both completely snubbed. And again, we are apolitical here at the nerve, but Taylor Sheridan's universe speaks to

“Red America. And that's why it's always getting snubbed. I think the guy has major issues, especially”

with women. It's not like I'm a diehard fan of his at all, at all. But I think it's curious when like a landman which stars a Billy Bob Forton, who is excellent. Excellent is just completely snubbed. The Madison stars Michelle Fyfer, who was nominated for Margot's Money Troubles in which she's

I also want to make a note of Ariana Maddox being nominated as the host of Love Island, USA.

Ariana Maddox was formerly known as the quote unquote "wronged woman in the scant of all era of Vanderpump rules." And I related a story about Ariana Maddox on a very early nerve.

“It was, it was the scant of all, which was I think 25, 24 when it exploded, 24 or 23, 24. It's”

24 and she and Lisa Vanderpump were guests at the of the Daily Mail's at the White House correspondent's dinner. And so they were seated at our table. And Lisa Vanderpump was lovely and engaged with everybody at the table. Everybody who came up to her and it was like lines out the door

to to get a selfie with Lisa. Ariana Maddox spent her time at our table, which had like

it was only sat like eight people maybe ten on her phone. She was too good to speak to the rest of us. She was there. Our invitation was given a private tour of the White House earlier that day. It was a star of the event, but she was too good to engage with the very people who invited her. So it was really classy. And I just, I've seen the promos for Love Island that she taped.

“And for someone who has spent a good chunk of her adult life in front of cameras,”

I am amazed at how stilted this woman is. And how like kind of sing songy,

her presentation is. Like she asked to just stand in front of like a green screen and pretend to do

a weather report that is for Love Island. And she's like, we're looking at romance with a chance of drama. It's, it's juvenile, it's like it's like, um, fourth grade audition time. You know, let's just take a look at it. She was nominated. Let's take a look at this. And now you're summer forecast with Ariana. A major heat wave is moving in. courtesy of Love Island USA forecast predict a hundred percent chance of romance and drama.

Team, how the feeling out there? Whoa, times are climbing fast. We're seeing hot spots nationwide. No doubt this will be the hottest season yet. See, you can see how they had to edit around her stiltedness and sort of exaggerate it. Like her direction was clearly now give a wing to the camera. And instead of doing like, oh, yeah, she had to go.

Yeah, I don't get it. I don't get it. Also, she hasn't invested any of her money in acting lessons or elicution lessons. She's like Jenna Bush Hager. TV's Jenna Bush Hager. She says a hundred. It's a hundred. It's one hundred L.O. Cute. Love story Paul Anthony Kelly was not nominated for his role. His breakout role as JFK Junior,

“which I think is a crime. It's not easy to play that hot and that dumb. And he did it.”

I'm being dead serious. He was great. He nailed JFK Junior. Nailed him. I wouldn't be surprised if he is a glancing familiarity with Ask Not because he really got the shallow entitled dumb nature. You know, they, they, they really sanded down the darkest impulses of JFK Junior, but that's for another time. We've talked about it before. Euphoria snobbed Euphoria the nerve again, moving the culture. We talked about Euphoria as glorified pornography, and I died when Sam Levinson showed

up on Bill Mars real time with Bill Mars and Bill gave him the prestigious one-on-one interview at the top of the show interview. There I go. I'm like Ariana interview and Bill waxed rapesotic about how culturally important Euphoria is and the statement it was making to which I wish I had, I'm dying to talk to Bill Mars really because my question to Bill Mars is what statement is it making, Bill? What statement is dressing Cindy Swenie up like a baby and having her perform in sex acts

and spread her legs wide open in a diaper? What statement is that making? Get real. Zindaeo was nominated, Coleman Domingo was nominated. They're both, you know, they're part of the, they're in the club. They're in the club. Everybody loves the both of them. So they got nominated. The rest of the series did not. And Cindy Swenie was snobbed and we can all probably guess why I should. That's what, Cindy Swenie, I hope she learns a lesson. She happily played ball with

on the floor. She was leashed like a dog, licking water. And Zindaeo would not. Zindaeo would not do that.

And Zindaeo got the nom. Diplomat nominated. We love the diplomat. I love the diplomat anyway.

“I think Carrie Russell is great. Allison Janney was also nominated. Now again, here's where our,”

it's like a, it's like our homeland crime board where we begin to connect the dots between all of the cultural offenders recall that in our Andy, many are hour long, many taken that guy out to the wood shed, grinded up the wood shipper for him, grinding it up. He said in passing while interviewing Andrew Rannels that every time he and Allison Janney see each other, Andy and Allison,

they make out. And that statement just like, bruised by everybody's head. Nobody went, wait, what?

Why are you making out with each other? Every time you see each other, like what is that? Can you imagine, like what is that? I mean, Andy is a literal star fucker. It really doesn't

“matter. It really doesn't matter. Now, this is one of my favorite rituals every award season.”

But it's most prominent during Emmy, Globe, and Oscar season. It's more prominent among actors than musicians. I wonder why. Anyway, my favorite thing is when actors are asked. So where were you when you heard that you were nominated and instead of telling the truth, which was, well, Kevin over at entertainment tonight or Scott over at Access Hollywood, you two dying, dying entities. You're dying because I'm going to tell you this story and you're not going to push back

on me at all. Let's look at Constance Zimmer, nominated for outstanding supported actors for her role as Carolyn Bessett's mother and Missina Freeman in the FX series Love Story, John F. Kennedy Jr. and Carolyn Bessett. Constance, how did you find out that you got nominated for an Emmy? Here we go. How did you hear about it? My publicist was like, congratulations, Constance, and I said, I know it's so exciting. The show got nominated and she's like, no, you got

nominated. And I said, what? Okay, this is why these shows are dying. You need a host and interviewer to push back and say, get real sister, get real. Okay, you haven't been employed, meaningfully in a very long time. You wound up in a show that could have gone sideways fast, but turned out to be a monocultural phenomenon and you got nominated. You're telling me, you're telling me that you didn't even, you weren't even able to sleep the night before. You didn't

even have to set your alarm for 4 a.m. because you were wide awake and that you had your TV on and you were on your eighth cup of coffee and you were praying to whatever devil you worship

that you get nominated and then your names go, they're always like, you know, I was sleeping

and my publicist had to wake me up out of a dead sleep and I was like, what are you talking about? Wait, what day is it? Like, you know that they have to submit themselves to be nominated, right? Like, it's not like this thing just falls out of the sky. It's not like the Nobel Prize

“where it's really like, no, you have to submit. Okay, okay. Let's end this,”

shallacking of our new, our newest cultural criminal offenders with some real loss, a real loss of an actor who by all accounts was a truly decent and well-loved man, Sam Neal, who died unexpectedly at the age of 78 on Monday. He was in a hospital in Sydney, Australia, his native Australia and this came as a shock because Sam Neal had announced just several months ago that he was quote unquote cancer-free, which I don't know if you're ever really cancer-free,

like what they say is they can't see any of it, they can't detect any of it, but he had been given, I believe, a fairly grim diagnosis and then an experimental treatment he was undergoing really turned it around for him and so something went horribly wrong and it's it's so sad. He was such a talent and such as a seemingly decent decent guy. He was best known in America for

in the films the piano, which made Holly Hunter a major major star, I mean broadcast news did it, but that that movie by Jane Campion really people looked at Holly Hunter differently, also dead calm,

“Nicole Kidman's debut, feature film debut, I believe. She had smaller roles, but her starring debut,”

dead calm made Nicole Kidman a star. Neil, like this is someone who know a whiley, would Sam Neal would have been rage know a whiley, he would have been like you know Sam Neal's just better than I am

and I always felt I was losing his scene to him. Here's Sam Neal, this is from August 2024,

he was appearing on ABC I view, this is an Australia for a series called The Assembly, and he was speaking to a group of journalism students who are autistic and these students interview Australia's biggest stars and they're very first episode in the series and I'm sure this was not an accident that they chose Sam Neal. Not only look and listen, if you're listening, I would encourage you to look at this clip because it's not only the seriousness with which Sam Neal

takes this question and really delivers a thoughtful answer, but just the way in which he engages with this student who's asking the question, he treats her like he would treat anyone else,

“and I think that's just such high praise here we go. What is the best lesson you learned from your”

parents? Wow, that's a really interesting question, that's a really really interesting question. I don't know why the question has moved me so much, but it has. My parents were the generation that went through a lot of things, they went through the depression, my mother lost her father in the first war, so she grew up without her father, yeah, so they went through a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff, but they were very stoic people,

at a year at the university where I'd done bugger rule, I was acting in plays and trying to find a girlfriend and things like that. It came to exam time and I realized I'd done almost no work, it got me very anxious, and then I got her and mum said, how are you, darling? And I said, how am I thinking I'm having a breakdown and I've got exams in a couple of weeks and I don't know how I'm going to go in and she just looked at me and she said, well, you're just going to have

“to pull yourself together, aren't you? And I think that was the best lesson I learned from her”

is sometimes you just have to pull yourself together. That's just such an incredible answer,

and something I think younger generations could really take to heart. There's a story that was published in New York Magazine a couple of weeks ago that Marlene and I are going to bring to you and discuss and it goes basically to that, to adults, adults, feeling as though their parents need to keep giving them money and a lot of it because they want to live a certain lifestyle and you know, their parents have it, why can't they just give it to them? Okay, I can't wait to discuss

that, I can't wait, coming up, trouble maker feedback, we are back in a minute. Your liver does more than you know when it comes to regulating energy, hormone, digestion and even your mood, but stress, toxins and processed foods are constantly overloading it.

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well-being at peaklife.com/thenarve. It's PICUELife.com/thenarve. Now before we get to a little trouble maker feedback, we have some celebrity house cleaning to attend to when I saw this in real time last week I made a note which I found on Monday morning and so we have two nice bits for you both from Access Hollywood RIP instead.

“Their last episode as discussed I believe is airing in October and these are the reasons why.”

Number one is Robert Pattinson potentially maybe a troublemaker? Here he is on the red carpet for the Odyssey talking to Access Hollywood Scott Evans about his heartbreak, over missing Taylor Swift's wedding to which he was invited. July 6th episode, here we go. Wedding heard about all around the world. I just got to tell the giveaways. Giveaways in prizes. I didn't get any prizes. I didn't get a consolation prize. Give me that.

Now the way I hear that. The way I first heard like am I hearing him correctly?

I think he said something like I should get a consolation prize for being there. Not for not being there. And I love that he zeroed in on. I heard there were prizes and a raffle and he laughed. He's like smurking about it because his girlfriend was there.

“I love Robert Pattinson. I think he's a really interesting guy I do and I like that we don't really hear”

about him when he's not working. He is a child with his girlfriend, Suki Watterhouse.

You would never know it. Others could take a note. Now this is where the nerve and our dedication

to grammar and proper pronunciation and literacy like basic literacy. This word that Access host Mario Lopez. This is a voiceover by the way. Again, remember we did this with entertainment tonight and that female host said mispronouncing the word altercation. She said altercation in a voiceover which means that voiceover goes through editors and producers and people hear it multiple ears around that thing. And nobody went. Nobody went. You mispronounce that word.

“Rerecord it and we'll drop it in. Is this how dumb everybody working on these shows is?”

I mean, I got to believe it because Mario Lopez just committed a very similar violation against the language. Here he is. His voiceover discussing Zendez scaparelli gown also at the Odyssey premiere. Same exact episode with trouble maker Rob. Note the mispronunciation of the word bodice. Inspired by our character at the end of the actress continued her goddess streak with the scaparelli gown literally just off this morning's runway in Paris. The ensemble features

a sculpted bodice and pearl embroidered skirt bodice. First he also mispronounced ensemble. He put the stress on the wrong syllable. But he truly massacred the word bodice bodice. Long may the nerve rain, long may we rain. Nobody else is doing the shit, dear mooring, dearest mooring. No less now. This postcard comes from Milano and this came in while I was off in London. Trouble makers. We are reportedly allegedly receiving correspondence

from one statement gram and I am as discussed putting this on the top of Teddy's desk as soon as we are done with this episode. Now we'll Teddy likely be napping. Yes, not the point. When he's on, he's on, dearest mooring. I've come to Milan for design week. I know O like's fashion week, but

proof lining so that I am ready for when the flying monkeys come for me, XO, XO, S, Graham.

“This is this is the most movement we have seen in this case in quite some time. And just a”

couple of other notes, high mooring, how likely do you think it is that we will see a movie based on this Prince Harry out in John Hugh Grant, court case, your friend in Florida, Marie. I don't think very likely you would have to really really go in on the true guts of it and some of those people not Harry, but some of them are very well liked. Dear mooring, this is from Trouble Maker Mary,

one issue with MSG, no one has talked about these of retailers, wedding, the toilets.

Agreed, disgusting. Anybody who's been to the garden knows that this is from a trouble maker.

“I pulled your, I couldn't print it out for some reason, but I have it up on my laptop. This is”

Trouble Maker Michael, forwarded, took a photo of this and sent it asking, is John Melaney also a trouble maker, look at this huge banner that Melaney showed at Riggly Field before his sold-out set it reads, hey, Melaney exclamation point from one Chicago freak to another, congrats on selling out Riggly signed, Steadman Grail. The nerve is moving the culture. Keep your feedback coming, email me at [email protected] or DM me on Instagram at moring Callahan Rider or at

the nerve show coming up. Some real talk about fake people with two guests who are new to the nerve

“who we believe you're going to love the sisters and co-hosts of the podcast pop Apologist,”

Lauren Atkinson and Chandler, led so we will see you in a minute. The skincare industry has been selling lies for years, pushing over-priced chemical laden creams that just sit on the skin, doing absolutely nothing. Van Man Company has taken a completely different approach by combining the ancestral power of grass-fed talo with one of nature's most potent secrets wild caught pearl powder. Their pearl eye cream isn't just about

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Van Man real ingredients, no exceptions. Now, to first time guests to the nerve, these, I love these women, they are so good, so smart, so funny and original when it comes to pop culture, Lauren Atkinson and Chandler, Blood So, our sisters and the co-hosts of pop apologists. This is a must subscribe podcast. You can find it on YouTube and all available platforms. They did an emergency talo swift episode that stopped me in my tracks and they joined us today for their first time here

on the nerve. Welcome, Lauren and Chandler. Morine, thank you so much for so excited to be here. We're a huge fan. As you know, we've deep-dived your book, "Aft's Not," and so we feel honored.

like, how are we going to tell these girls apart? Your sisters, you look like you could be twins. You're both so pretty. Lauren is in the jacked dress on the right, and Chandler is here in the Yes, exactly. So, can we begin if we may with your Taylor? This is this is the emergency episode, which is an irrespective, because I'm behind to pay all over the Daily Mail. Go get a subscription to their podcast. Okay, we're going to take a little bit of a listen.

If anybody out there is unfamiliar with what is called the Gaylor Theory. This is the theory that Taylor Swift may actually be a gay woman, or the very least heavily leaning by sexually towards women, and that her friendship with Carly Klaus was more than just a friendship. Now, Carly Klaus was -- they had a major falling out, nobody ever really knew why. After an intense friendship that they debuted on the cover of Vogue back in 2015, as one does.

Now, Carly showed up to Taylor's wedding. She was given an invite in a long-gold dress, which she wore to the wedding. Now, this is relevant. We are going to listen to the pop apologists break down exactly the Gaylor Theory and their Taylor Swift emergency episode. Here we go. The big one that people say is, "You made your mark on me from the song, dress, a golden tattoo," and they believe that is a reference to Carly. I don't want you

like a best friend. Yes. I only bought this dress so you could take it off. Yes. That's an interesting lyric. I don't want you like a best friend. Yes.

It's interesting. It's interesting. You know, I've never been a Gaylor, but yes. People

people really were deep in that lore, and the fact that Carly wore a gold dress is pretty crazy. So, which one of you would like to take first, whether you believe there may be real credence to the Gaylor Theory, or if this is just another epic troll, because for Taylor, all press is good, press. It's absolutely true. So, I've had a minute to kind of sit with this decision of Carly's to wear a gold dress to the wedding. And I am, I mean, I am still not a

“Gaylor, but I think the Carly likes to feed into it. I just, I don't think you make that mistake.”

You know, unknowingly. I think that she knew exactly what she was doing, and she was just stirring the pot just a little bit. I mean, I actually have a Gaylor rumor sort of keep Carly's class relevant. If I could be so bold. Oh, yeah. I don't know. Lauren, what do you think? No, I completely agree with you. I think at this point, Taylor and Carly specifically, they have fun with it. And I think that she wanted to wear a gold dress to kind of, you know,

tease the Gaylers a little bit to feed into it a little bit. There's also a song called Gold Rush.

And there's a lyric, the Coastal Town we wandered around had never seen a love as pure as it.

Now, I'm sure all of your listeners will remember this, but Taylor and Carly famously went to Big Sur together, and they had all of these photos together in Big Sur. So Carly has seen herself and collages up for herself to the song Gold Rush all over TikTok with people guessing that her and Taylor were in a relationship. So I do think that she was kind of, you know, just kind of,

“it's like a little bit of a world blissful, I think at the Gaylers. But what of the lyrics, you guys,”

those lyrics that you quoted, which I had never heard because I don't really, I'm not a fan of Taylor's, but those lyrics where she said something like that, that gold dress, like, I want to take it off. I bought it for you, so I could take it, like explain that as not at all, okay? She says, I bought this dress so you could take it off, and I don't want you like a best friend, which, you know, I do think it's kind of an interesting thing to say because generally,

if you're dating someone, you don't think, like, oh, I'm also considering you to be a best friend, you know, that's generally not even in the, you know, on the menu. So the Gaylers have a lot to go on, I will give them their credit there. I also want to say there is a photo of Carly and Taylor

at a 1975 concert where they are embracing and holding each other in a way that I have never

held any of my girlfriends before, like, platonic girlfriends. I know it's exactly the image. Is, have, has she scrubbed that from the internet successful with that image? No, it's out there. It's still out there. We'll show it. We'll show it because it does look like they are making out

“or about to make out. And this is the thing that also, I think, always struck me as very odd.”

She tends to have, you know, I think she's a little too old for this. These kinds of intense female friendships that are, it's the kind when you're in adolescent, you know, they're really intense. And she was like this with Blake, lively too. She was always very handsy, very,

And frankly, I'm kind of surprised that Taylor hasn't come under any criticism unless I'm unaware of it from the gay community for basically engaging and gay bathing.

“You know, I definitely think she has come under criticism. I think, at least there are people”

like in the gay or community that are very unhappy with her. If they do believe that she is a closeted gay woman or bisexual woman because I could absolutely understand that. I honestly lean much more towards the idea that she's just perpetually dickwept. If I can be so bold and candid,

please do. I just think that this girl is always so obsessed with whatever man is in her life.

I mean, I think that if we look at the vibe of her wedding, we will see a woman who is making decisions based off of what, you know, the guy in her life wants. I think for the most part. And so it's hard for me to imagine that she's straight up gay and just hiding it. Lauren, do you think that the Travis really wanted Madison Square Garden to be transformed into a big fat Disney wedding? It's a question. I rustle with, you know, late into the night. I think that he wanted a lot of

celebrities around. I think she did not want to have to make decisions on who they were going

“to invite. And I think that he, I think that he is a little bit of a cloud chaser. And so yeah,”

I think that he was happy to have so many a-listers at his wedding. And she was only so, you know, she was so happy to apply to him as well. I think he really likes being a celebrity. And with his wedding, she really leaned into being the being a celebrity. Like that's the angle that she leaned into for this wedding. This would not have been the wedding that she would have had with Joallon. There's definitely not. He was far more private, far more private. What do you guys make of the,

what I find quite suspicious timing of Joallon frolicking around with our Sarah Pigeon of who became famous out of Ryan Murphy's love story, which we will get to? Thank you for bringing that up. I have felt a red hot rage over these photos ever since they had the internet because I think that the fact that Joallon is out there calling paparazzi with the newest, it girl right around Taylor's wedding. It's so disrespectful. Given that he

knows when it's going to be, he has a lot of people in her orbit. It is, to me, it is so, like, just give it a few months. It is absolutely for PR. It's to get his name in the headlines. And I think Sarah Pigeon is playing the exact same game. She is trying to, you know, get her moment in the sun and have that continue with those paparazzi images with Joallon next to, or near Taylor's wedding. Chandler's one thing? Yeah, it was one thing when it was just like, we're out in

New York City. Like, I kind of feel like there are people everywhere taking pictures in New York City.

You know, at first when those photos were released, I was like, you know, I was not as, as

rageful as long as, or was. And anyway, but then when the second, you know, the second photo of them, the second batch of photos comes out of them in the park in London. I'm just like, okay, you are absolutely trying to get spotted. You're trying to stay in the headlines. And it just felt like, yeah, this is a guy who actively tried to stay away from paparazzi for the seven years that he dated Taylor Swift. I mean, he's constantly covering his face when they're spotted

together. And it just, it doesn't add up the math doesn't math. I could agree with you more. I was in London when those photos of Sarah Pigeon and Joe Alwin were published of them in a park. And I can assure you that random paparazzi aren't just rolling around enormous parks in London hoping that they can, you know, spot some celebs in the wild. And it gives me what you're describing Chandler reminds me very much of Chris Martin when he was married to Gwyneth Paltrow. And he was

constantly running away from the press. Like, she had like a launch event one night in New York or LA.

“And remember that photo of him running out the door with like a hoodie over his head, like,”

got like, we, you're married to her, sir. We know. And then when he got with Dakota Johnson, it was no problem. No problem. Oh, how many photos do we get of them scrolling on the beach?

Like, exactly. Whether on Malibu or Montauk, they were always photographed, either end of the

country. I don't know if you remember this marine, but there was also the famous moment when after his door from going to Paltrow, you know, he's never seen with GP. They never walk a red carpet together. He's so private. He then was spotted with some young actress literally dancing in the street. And it was just such a slap in the face to GP in my opinion. Because, you know, clearly these guys, they will be seen with who they want to be seen with. And so I think both of them, you know,

we're trying to make a point to their access. I couldn't agree with you more. And that actress, it was like a lesser actress. Yeah. She was some like 2K waterhouse for a minute. Was it hard? Was it 2K baby? It was some rando that was just a briefling, but then he, I think he did date

that was probably a Cooper. Was it not about Chris Martin's day to Jennifer Lawrence, too? Did it probably Cooper date 2K waterhouse? Yes. Okay. So they both did. So they're what they would call Eskimo Brothers. She's a popular girl. Can I just read you guys a bit before we let the Gailer Taylor, Carly thing go. I just want to read a little bit from

“that Vogue cover story where they debuted their friendship. Because I think this goes very much”

to who Taylor is. I think she was 25 at this time. So they debuted their friendship and announced it to the world on the March 2015 cover of Vogue and lengthy profile inside written by Jada, you on, but I'm pronouncing her name, right? I'm just going to read a little bit from it. Taylor Swift and Carly Clause have forged the kind of careers and the kind of friendship that people dream about, speak for yourself, Jada. One of the first things Taylor Swift did

after moving from Nashville to her sprawling two story penthouse in New York's Tribeca was

cover a wall of her den with framed blown up polarites of the most important people in her life.

Taylor, and I quote, this is when me and Carly grammatically incorrect. First met, she says, pointing to a picture of her grinning and hugging model Carly Clause backstage at the 2013 Victoria's Secret Fashion Show, the caption, handwritten in Sharpie, ink, reads, best friends forever, Vs 2013, and feels rather pressure given how close the two have become over the past year or so with a road trip to Big Sur as you guys just referenced, dreamily documented on Instagram,

restaurant, outing shopping excursions, sleepovers, again, I do not know, grown women who have sleepovers, texting marathons, model fit and soul cycle sessions, and a second joint Vs, outing late last year in London, whereas the pair walked side by side down the runway and black

“lace they exchanged. Can you believe this grin's two friends on top of the world?”

All I have to say is I do believe that some of this sort of clingy, infantile, like best friend, you know, energy that's coming from Taylor comes more from her just being a, you know, child,

child star basically like stunted growth a bit versus her being, you know, secret lesbian.

In my opinion, I think she's just kind of like the type of friend who, you know, comes on really strong, and I don't think that she is just, you know, hiding the fact that she's still lesbian and, you know, is only marrying Travis Kelsey to, you know, hide that. I actually didn't read it with that implication at all. What, what, what astounds me about Taylor, and I understand the theory and subscribe to it in large part that most people become emotionally

psychologically arrested at the age which they become famous, but that Taylor for all of her business acumen, for having traveled the world multiple times over, for having access to the most

famous powerful people on the planet who could tutor her should she avail herself, remains this stunted,

remains this stunted. She's the same as she was in 2015, it seems.

“Yeah, I don't, I don't disagree with you. I think that Taylor has grown a lot. In my personal opinion,”

I think I've seen a ton of personal growth so much growth in her music. I, I will say though, in favor of the Gayler theory that there is the lyric, we could go back to that for a second. There is the lyric you made your mark on me, a golden tattoo, and she gives her, you know, she gives all of her exes in her music, a color, generally. So Joel is blue. And so that is why people think Carly class is gold, because there's all these references to gold that have these little

little gold, these little nuggets that lead back to Carly. I'm going to refute that. Okay, where are you doing, Taylor? I just want to say, you know, Taylor is a writer. She knows what she's doing with every word, every symbol she uses. She loves an easter egg. Gold, star lesbian. She is not one. My opinion is so on Chandler. Oh, I was just going to say, I, I disagree with that. Yes, she's used, you know, blue to describe Joe, but she also describes him

and they're love as golden in the song Daylight. Well, that's a huge theme. Okay, we need to debate that later. We can, yeah, I guess we can. But anyway, okay. Well, I also want to ask you about an adjacent celebrity scandal that is currently still unfolding. Lake lively and her husband, psycho arsonist Ryan Reynolds, have been quote unquote hiding out, but also TMZ has been capturing them everywhere they're going, which is, you know,

What do you, I mean, they are clearly trying to find their way back into the good graces of not just the industry, but public and public and public and public opinion at large.

Justin Baldoni last week just released his very first statement on video on social media alongside

his wife Emily, who also spoke in your estimation, Lauren and Chandler, what do you think their

“chances are for any kind of rehabilitation? I think that if that will come, it might be in a decade or”

longer, especially for Lake lively. It's very notable that on that video, Justin and his wife posted, there's thousands of supportive comments, yet Blake can't even turn comments on. So I think that the public, the fiercest of the public eye or against Lake lively is really actually impressive at this point. I just don't see any coming back for her in any sort of near future. Chandler, I think a perfect example of how she cannot help herself is when she appeared on the

Metgala red carpet, hours after the news broke that she had lost, and she's just settled. Yes, exactly. Yes, excuse me. Yeah, hours after that news break, she's on the red carpet and all of her daily and she's like, I'm shy. I guess I'm just shy. And it's like, no, you're not. You want this moment. You are trying so hard to get back in the public's good places. You are so

“far from that. I think she just needs to stop. She needs to stop calling the paparazzi”

on herself, you know, on upstate New York. It's just it's time for her to kind of go the way of like Amber heard. Maybe just disappear for a little while with the family and just live a broad, you know, keep it simple and just stop trying to force it.

What I find incredible is when when crises like this occur and this is truly a crisis of her own

making, she architected it and she just assumed it was going to go her way. This is really when you see how much someone who is a celebrity needs being very famous to survive. Like, she clearly cannot survive unless she is photographed, unless she is followed, unless she is discussed, it seems any attention is better, like bad attention, terrible attention is better than no attention. And to me, the humiliation of being completely exercised, there's a theory that one of the reasons Taylor Swift

invited so many famous people, some of whom she probably doesn't even know to this wedding at Madison Square Garden, was as an FU to Blake to say, this is how little you now mean to me. You're nothing in my life. Yeah, I wonder if if it wasn't for the purpose of an FU to Blake, if at least that was a cherry on top, or it, you know, when they were making the decision, should we have a view smaller, more intimate, actually make some tough calls here, and then maybe

when they were making that call and Taylor realized, well, when Blake lively sees that there are a thousand people there and she's not one of them, she's going to really know what she's done

and that this friendship is never, you know, getting better. I could see that being tempting.

Chandler, you seem to be shaking your head here. No, I'm shaking my head, I guess, in a agreement, just at the, you know, at the goal of, like, lively and just how sad this is, I mean, I think about the fact that, like, Taylor Swift is the godmother, too. I believe, like, some of her children may be all of them. I don't know. I think three of them, the daughters, I think. Like, it's just, I mean, things really did go south between the two of them,

and it's just crazy that of the 1100 people that were at that wedding. She didn't just, you know, say, like, lively, you can just come, like, I'm not going to even see you. There's not much she's even going to interact with every single person at her wedding. It was just, it was definitely a very intentional move. And it was also designed, I believe, I believe, part of this wedding was designed in order to change the narrative around Taylor Swift. Let's forget everything she

had to do with trying to bully and destroy Justin Baldoni as was released in those text messages

“that came out and discovery. And that's why I believe she'll never allow Blake anywhere near her again,”

because that's as close as Taylor has gotten to being revealed as a mean girl in the public square. Yeah, I think that, you know, it's tough because I think that when I was reviewing the text messages, what I read was Taylor believing what Blake was saying, and she really only had Blake's side of the story, right? So if your best friend is texting you that the director that she's working with is a total creep and is saying all of these things, they make you super, making you super

uncomfortable harassing you. As a best friend, you're going to be like, you know, show supportive and you're going to be righteously indignant on your friends to have to make them feel supported. So to me, those weren't necessarily an indictment of Taylor, I think that where Taylor decided

to her, through her attorneys to release the 10 years of private text messages, and lastly,

yes, or less Taylor came out in support of Blake Liveway. That's a great point. That's a great point, Lauren. I forgot about that because so much has happened, but but reportedly the threat under that threat was they contained very private conversations in which Taylor was discussing details of her sex life with various boyfriends. Oh, yeah. So that's a level of betrayal that

“I think a private person couldn't stomach, let alone. Indeed. What the biggest celebrity in the world.”

Indeed. Okay. Let's move on to Harry. Harry and Meghan. Harry has been in London all week. He was, uh, it was announced that Meghan would be joining him. The children would be joining him that there would be a meeting, a reconciliation, again, attempt with King Charles. Instead, Meghan's nowhere to be seen. The children are nowhere to be seen. Harry got the biggest black eye. A judge completely dismissed all of his claims that the Daily Mail had used nefarious

tactics in order to report upon him. It's cost the plaintiffs. He was not alone in this lawsuit

over $53 million. These two have zero income that we can see coming in. What is your assessment, Lauren?

Uh, we'll start with you. Yeah. So I thought that this case was really interesting because essentially what Prince Harry and his, you know, co-planetive alleged and said was because the Daily Mail couldn't say where they caught the information and it was private information that they must have gotten illegally. And the judge essentially said, you can't, you can't put the burden of proof on the person being accused, right? You're not guilty or excuse me. You're not, um, in most judicial

systems, you're guilty until I'm sorry, you're innocent until the proven guilty. You're not guilty until you prove your innocent. And that's essentially what this entire lawsuit tried to do. So it

actually would have been scary if he had won for all news publications because then all of a sudden,

you know, essentially they're on the hook to prove every single source that they have. Trying to prove a negative, you know, the judge said to Harry at one point during the proceedings. I understand your feelings or hurt. But in some, in substance feelings aren't facts, he had zero proof, zero proof. Yeah. Yeah. Chandler, what do you make of what this does for Harry and Meghan stateside? You know, they're trying the thinking was that at least if they met with King Charles,

they could come back and sell that story to some sort of, you know, like, what does this do for them

“in the marketplace? I mean, honestly, I am the most stressed about their finances given this because”

they will be on the screen of this group. We have plaintiffs. We'll be on the hook for like the legal costs. Yes. And we already know that they are struggling that, you know, we already know they're having to borrow private jets. Um, so, you know, just everyone, everyone on Hollywood, you're going to get a call because they're going to want to be borrowing a private check because they are not going to be, you know, financially solved. And after this, you know, we were talking

to Rob Shooter about it this week and he says that his biggest concern and that the royal family should share this is that they, they will be desperate and they will sell themselves to the highest bidder and that may be a government that is an antagonist of the United Kingdom that wishes the United Kingdom ill. I mean, just look at Andrew and Sarah Ferguson and how they would sell themselves out to the highest bidder. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, desperate people do desperate things. So that

“tracks for me, I think that, you know, they will make an area will not go gently into the good night”

of anonymity or relative, you know, living like a normal person, right, on normal months of money. They are accustomed to a certain lifestyle. And I think that, you know, Harry Thorne threatened that he has, he has enough info that he left out of despair to fill a book larger than despair. That's very true. That is very true. So this will, this story will only get more interesting. It has not plateaued yet by a long shot. Okay. Now, I really want to talk to you guys about,

as you said, you know, I saw that you were doing ask not and I was really intrigued by this because I'm going to guess you are millennials. Okay. And I want to talk to you a little bit too before we get into love story. You, you guys have a very interesting background. You now both live in New York. I hear one of you often on the podcast mentioned green point and it makes me laugh because I used to live in Williamsburg. So I get a lot of what you're talking about. But can you tell the

trouble makers a little bit about your background? We grew up in California and then we went to

started our pop culture podcast when we were both at school and have been doing it really since 2020. We took a break and then came back in 2020 and it had been going strong ever since. When you're raised Mormon and I guess like any religion, it could be as strict as your parents

“decide. What is your access as young people to pop culture?”

You know, our access to pop culture was not limited by the religious aspect of our life. I remember reading a weekly finale salon right next to my mom, you know, all growing up. But we were raised in a very conservative, very strict household. Interesting. Interesting. And then how did you wind up in New York? Well, everyone sort of copied me. I moved here first and then I moved here for my now husband and Lauren followed me out here a couple years later. You're half a half. She's

goes in between New York and Puerto Rico. Yeah, but I'm, but half of the time I'm in Williamsburg. So close to your green point exactly. Okay, there we go. So, um, so your, I wanted to talk to you about love story, Ryan Murphy's love story, which, you know, it shocked me how sort of that became this, there are very few monocultural phenomenons in the culture that really catch fire and this was one of them. And especially given that you guys grew up a little bit behind JFK Jr and Carolyn

Beset. And I'll talk to younger people all the time who've like never heard of either one of them.

“What did you think of the series on the whole? And why do you think it caught fire the way it did?”

I mean, I, I think the story of JFK Jr and Carolyn Beset just kind of has all of that, all of the makings of something that everyone's going to want to watch. It's a fairytale, but it's also a doomed fairytale. You know, we all know how it ends tragically. Also, the Kennedy's, you know, while it was like before my time, they're the closest thing we have to American royalty. And I just feel like people cannot get enough of this sort of Camelot story telling. And I think the show was just was

done really well. I think Sarah Pigeon was incredible as Carolyn. I think also people long for the nostalgia of the 90s. And like New York City and all those backdrops and the time before, you know, phones and social media and cell phones at least. And, and I just think, you know, like that idea that nostalgia period of like, I hope I just run into this person at a party. I hope they get my number and they call me. I mean, we don't, we don't have that anymore. It's like we're all chronically

online. And so it's just, it's a total novelty for everyone. And it was like escapism in a way. Lauren, what did you think of it? Yeah. So I grew Chandler in so much that, you know, people long for the nostalgia of a time when celebrities were more mysterious, especially, you know, in a time where right now, where celebrities announce when they're leaving social media, we just know what they're eating for lunch. We see them constantly. And so when you see these like very

enigmatic, mysterious, larger than life, super glamorous, American royalty the past, like the Kennedys and CBK, a fashion icon, there's just something really alluring about that. In terms of the show, I hated it personally because I felt like it was completely unrealistic. I felt like they made out JFK Junior to just be such a, I'm trying to, not use an improper term. But they made it out to be so weak, you know, I don't think he was the type of guy who was so like

“whipped up by his girlfriend. In fact, I think he had a lot of women who were whipped up by him.”

And yeah, I just, I did not buy their characterization of him at all. I thought, um, I did find

Sarah Pigeon's acting, though, to be incredible. I found her performance to be utterly riveting.

And I found it to be fun to watch. I just didn't think it was accurate. Yeah, I think the hair extensions should get a supporting nom. She just started the nomination for an Emmy. The hair did a lot of that heavy lifting. But, you know, I was listening to your, um, your third episode, um, when you guys were talking, uh, doing, ask not. And you were both saying that you were really, um, compelled more so

by the girls and women that you didn't know about, that you hadn't learned about in school or read about, then even the Jackie Kennedys or the Carolyn Bessette Kennedys. Um, I, I heard your episode.

It was incredible. Mary Joke, a pack named Martha Moxley, Pam Kelly, what I thought you did

was so smart with the Mary Joke segment is you guys chose to run in its entirety, Ted Kennedys, broadcast days after he left her to die, um, basically laying out his case to the American people, why he did it, uh, why they should excuse it and why he should stay in office. And I'm just curious

about it in school either. I feel like an American history. I should have a good chunk of time

“dedicated to the Mary Joke of Pack News of America. Yeah. I think it's just so troubling and you”

find yourself so shocked when you find out about these women and what they experienced or their lives that were tragically cut short by these men and power. Um, and so you kind of feel light to buy the history books when you actually discover what was going on shocking. And the media, you know, and I think this gets to, like, this was exactly my tension with the Ryan Murphy show. I found it incredibly watchable, also infuriating. Yeah. You know, the way they depicted that

plane going down, it was like to the sounds of some smooth jazz, you know, in Carolyn's telling him to just breathe. Well, while there's poor sister in the backseat is closing her eyes peacefully, awaiting her violent end. I mean, come on. No, I mean, I had actually already read, asked not before the show aired. And so I already, you know, I didn't really have these rose colored glasses on for JFK Jr, because I knew that he was an extremely careless person. And that he was,

“you know, a daredevil. And, you know, I think that your, the book, you know, your astronaut,”

your work really like reframed all of these moments that I just kind of thought were like indiscretions with with JFK, even though it was meant to be them as cheating. And it's actually, you know, real harm was done, you know, a woman was murdered, a woman was paralyzed. Like there was just so many stories that, you know, and then a young woman tragically died, you know, with Mary Joe. And it's just, there just actual harm was done. And I think that history just kind

of chalked it up to just crazy flukes and tragedy. Yes, across. It's a pattern. It was a pattern of unchecked passion and selfishness that was just allowed for these men, because they were treated as royalty. Well, I just have to say, I've been so honored that you guys have been

discussing the book on your podcast. And I'm very curious as we leave you for your first and I

hope not your last appearance on the nerve. What pop culture stories you guys have your eyes on in the days and weeks to come? Well, thank you so much. It was so great to cover the book

“and our deep dive because it was so important to shine a light on those women's stories. So thank”

you for your book. And of course, right now we are still on wedding watch, Maureen, because we don't have photos yet. We don't have any official content from Taylor. So right now, we are all, you know, focused on what we're going to get from prepane and 13 management. Her publicist prepane, who's currently trying to do some damage control, because the daily mail has the real story about what went on in that wedding and the reception and apparently

her alist friends were gripping that it was cheap and tacky AF. We're fighting for our life as with our lives. True. It's been a hard week, Ari. I'm sorry you guys. I worry. I worry that you may collapse under the weight of what is to come out. But she hasn't made it any way. I want to light a candle for you. Thank you all for the best. Thanks, Lauren and Chandler of the Must Subscribe podcast pop Apologies. We hope to see you soon back on the nerve. Thank you,

Maureen. Take care, bye. Bye. That does it for your Tuesday edition of the nerve. We have a very special breaking news announcement, though, Marlene, just in my ear right now, told me that Stedman Graham is allegedly reportedly due to speak in North Carolina on July 17th. Now, we have had reports of Stedman Graham around the country, but we have no hard proof of life. And so we would like to put out two calls, one to the trouble maker army, anywhere, anyone in and around wherever Stedman is

speaking in North Carolina? Go. Where is it exactly? Marlene? High point. High point. Now, we need you to go. It's not just enough to go and take a picture. We need to get Stedman. We need video proof of life of Stedman. We need someone to ask if they can take video of Stedman

reassuring the troublemakers that he is indeed alive and well. We need it. Our second call is to

Stedman himself. We will promote any public speaking gig you're doing from now to eternity. If you just come on the nerve and let us know that you are okay, Teddy Van Halen would be most grateful. He would like to move on to other cases. He's been settled with this for over a year.

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