Debt Is Not A Problem Solving Tool - Financial Peace Is

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“>> Normal is broken common sense is weird,”

so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloni, Ramsey personality number one bestselling author

and host of the very popular Dr. John Deloni show on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. Open phones at Triple 8, 825, 5225, Gabrielle, or Gabriel is in Los Angeles. What's up?

>> Hello, Dave, hello, John. The longtime listener, I'm 27 years old. I'm going to be 28 in November. I just got a job as a buyer/planer, making $65,000 a year before I was making minimum wage,

like $17 an hour.

I have two children, I always hear you say before,

I got a PhD in stupid when I was younger. I'm definitely trying to change my life around, I have about $60,000 in debt. And yeah, I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate that. Both my children, I'm not with, you know,

their mothers, so I'm having a pay, you know, about $1,100 a month in child support, which I have no problem with. I guess my issue right now is starting to make, you know, going from $17 an hour to $65.

I know it's not life-changing, but for me, it is life-changing. >> It's a bit, that is a bit, yeah. >> Congratulations. >> Yeah, thank you so much, thank you so much.

And you know, it opened my eyes to, you know, like maybe I can't have a future for a long time, I guess I was in my head that life was over, essentially. So I guess now I'm having a brighter outlook,

you know, listening to you guys and hearing other people's stories. I feel like it's possible.

I have an amazing girlfriend.

She's going to graduate in a couple years with her SLP degree. So I just want to plan our life. I want to get rid of all the debt that I have, you know, I want to marry this woman. I want to provide a good future for my kids.

And for myself, and I guess, yeah, my question is just, how do I attack it? Is it possible, you know, to even get a home one day and, you know, do all this. It just feels sort of suffocating right now because it's just me.

>> Sure, you're not suffocating, you're on a curve, man. You're excited. You've got a thing called hope. It showed back up. >> Yeah.

>> And so good for you. >> Yeah, I think that was, yeah. >> Yeah, I brought it.

>> Yeah, first it was the whole.

>> Yeah, I do a really, really bright future for you. You're asking all the right questions with the right urgency and the right belief. So yeah, you're in good shape. >> Yeah, I mean, as far as the money piece,

sir, I would just tell you to follow the baby steps and we'll help you. I'll send you a copy of the book for total money makeover and make sure you read that, go over that with your girlfriend. And, you know, first thing you do is get a thousand dollars

and the second thing we're going to do is list these debts smallest to largest. And here's the weird thing. When you start paying attention to the debt and you quit borrowing money, you can make that debt go away.

It's just you weren't paying attention before.

“>> Exactly, I think that's another thing.”

It's like, I'm blessed, my girlfriend is also, she's better at saving than I am. She works the part-time job and still manages to save more than me. So, I'm blessed in the aspect of having, I'm more of the, I like the budget and do the numbers

and she likes to actually do it, you know? So, I guess, I need to like, I got into it. So, I think we don't see each other out well. So, I'm lucky in that end. >> Well, you don't, you don't know each other out

'cause you're not married, but you can coach each other. >> You can be cheerleaders for each other and cheer each other all until you're married someday. >> Let me give you a huge warning, okay? >> When I graduated college, I don't remember the exact number.

I think I had $20,000 or something by myself and student loan debt. I got my first big fancy job and I worked a bunch of extra, I was a coach in a teacher and so I could coach extra sports and make even more money.

And I ended that year, double if not one and a half X the amount of debt, I started that year with. Because I finally got this job, I've been driving an old beat up car since high school, all the way through college, I didn't say no to myself ever.

And the big trap you're gonna be careful of is, you finally have a paycheck and you're gonna wanna catch up on all the spending you haven't done over the past few years, if you will hold tight for 24 months, you can change everything in your life.

>> Yeah. >> Just tearing this down.

“>> I feel that way too, that the only thing is,”

for example, I was at the same mindset. Before I drove a 2005 Toyota Camry, it had like maybe $100,

it had maybe like 98,000 miles,

so it was just preseason first.

>> It's brand new, yeah.

“>> Yeah, exactly, so, but I did get into an accident”

a month into my new job, so a couple months ago, my car got to hold, so I, you know, this is, I wasn't listening to you guys as heavily, this has been a couple of weeks, I've been every day, I worked just listening to you guys all day.

But I had to get a, well, I got a car, 'cause I live a, I work a bit far. >> How much did you spend on this stupid car? >> 17,000. >> Okay, that's not bad, I thought you were gonna say.

>> No, no, no, no. >> So that's in your list of 60,000. Now the first step I get now to that, honey, quit borrow more money. So no more of that, you're done.

If you keep that car, that's fine,

but you're gonna have to now say beans and rice,

rice and beans, and the next time a little problem comes up, we don't solve it with that. You suck it up, buttercup, and you push through. You got to lean into this now. Now's your time, and that's exactly what John's talking about.

“Toadling a $1,000 car does not constitute purchasing”

a 17,000-dollar car. These things are not on the same page. This is, uh, your emotions got out of control. So when you total $1,000 car, you buy another $1,000 car. That's what you don't normally do.

But people don't, they do what you did, and that's some mistake. So, all right, hang on, we're gonna send you a copy of the total money makeover book and get you going. Toshes and Baltimore, hi, Tosh, what's up?

>> Hey, thank you for taking my go. >> Sure. >> How can we help?

>> Um, I've kinda, I wanna advice on how I can take

going through the baby steps and kind of manage my money, moving forward. So, um, early this year, you know, my parents got divorced, and um, now I pretty much got to move out, and I have like a lot of credit card debt,

and I have a legal, and between that and my vehicle, my car insurance, um, I just wanna know the best ways that I can kinda prepare to pay rent, you know, toward ended this year and kinda move forward. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 24. >> What do you make? >> I make, uh, 56,000 a year. >> No, no much card did you take on? >> Well, I, right now I'm in the lease.

>> Yeah, I'm not. >> What you're stupid paying. >> 100, 100, 100. >> It's 500. >> Good, God, okay.

So, let's talk about selling that lease car back, and getting out of that lease and getting you a beater. >> Right, so, right now, my current payoff amount is 19,000. Um, and it's worth about, um, 16, 5th. >> Yeah.

>> And I was listening to your show recently, and, uh, I know that, you know, you could potentially go to a, you know, a credit, um, you know, like a credit or to get a loan. >> Mm-hm. >> Pay off it, pay off it off.

>> Mm-hm. >> Um, I'm not sure how that will work being as though, like, I'm upside down right now.

“>> Well, you have to borrow $4,000 to pay the difference”

and sell the car. You got it, 'cause you're in the hole, you're upside down. And, so you got a $4,000 personal loan, that's better than a $16,000, $17,000 or whatever thing is here. And, um, we don't, 19,000.

And, um, then get you a beater and let's, you know, 'cause you got to move out and stand on your own in 24 years old, making $56,000 a Baltimore. You need to run those numbers. Go look at one better in apartments or two better in apartments

with a roommate. How are we going to do this? And, it's not going to be driving that car. (upbeat music) >> Hey, George Kamel here.

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Investing can be confusing.

“So a couple of years ago, they taught me into”

they being the Ramsey Love Events team. Doing an event with George Campbell called Investing Essentials where we opened up my personal playbook on what I invest in and why and what I don't invest in and why. Including real estate, we go into deep on the real estate stuff.

We've only done that event of investing essentials two times.

This is the third time ever to do it.

We are changing the content a little bit and we're gonna go a little bit more into navigating wheels, building a legacy. Maybe even look at taxes a little bit. A couple of cool things you can do there.

But tickets are $199. The next investing essentials of the third one in history is gonna be September one and two. It's George and me and we're gonna unpack my personal playbook and go through a bunch of the categories of investments.

And so if you're very serious about the investing side of this discussion, then this is a great place to be. Again, $199, you can get your tickets at RamseySolutions.com/events or click the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. Victoria is, whether she is in Seattle.

Hi, Victoria, how are you? - Hi, Dave, thank you for taking my call. - Sure, what's up? - Yes, I'm just a little bit overwhelmed.

I'm basically getting over divorced

where I over over like $20,000 and 14,000 of it is kind of pertinent. It was a personal loan. They took me to small claims and their intention is to try to potentially garnish my wages.

And that was wondering what your advice would be if I should get a heat lock to kind of get out from under all this divorce debt.

“- How's the divorce related to the small claims court?”

- Well, the person loaned me, so it was a friend, no longer a friend really, but they loaned me the money because I just didn't have it and the divorce was just, we had to just keep going back to court. He kept just taking me, taking me back to court

and I had to get a lawyer so they loaned me money.

- So you borrowed money from a friend to pay for your divorce? And then you haven't paid back your friend and how your friend is suing you? - Yeah, I haven't paid it all back. I tried to make payments.

- But what do you mean, Victoria? - So currently I make 52,000 that I'm gonna be starting to make 72,800 dollars. - Okay, how long ago was this divorce? - The divorce finalized a year ago.

- Okay, and how long have you been loaned this money? - About a year and a half. - And the last year, how much have you paid towards the 14,000? - I paid like $1,000 because I lost my job

and I just, you know, I haven't been really making it

“with my, and that's what, you know, my old job,”

I wasn't making it. It was just very sporadic income, my old job. - How long have you had the new job? This $56,000 job? - The $52,000 job, I started to make 10.

- Oh, just the other day, okay. - Yeah, and then... - Okay. - Yeah, so I bet through really struggling, I haven't... - Well, there's a couple things.

Obviously, a judgment is final in the state of Washington where you are, and then they execute on the judgment which gives them the ability to take a lean on any assets including doing garnishment on your wages in your state. Okay, usually that takes a while.

When was the judgment final in small claims? The small claims we had already previously mediated, and it was agreed that we were going to be on a payment plan, but now because I have... - Because you didn't keep the agreement,

now they're going to garnish you. - Now they were going back on the end of August to have a hearing, and then, but the person's intention wants to garnish my wages, but, of course, we're going to have hearing about it.

- Well, what they want, and what they want is their money. - I understand. - And for different reasons, you've not paid them their money. - Yes, I understand. - Okay, and so it's not that they're intent

Their intent is to try to get their money back,

“and you've never paid them in a year, more than $1,000,”

because you lost job, you had a bad job,

you finally got another job,

and you made an agreement. On May 10th, you made the agreement? No, May 10th, when you started the job, I'm sorry. When did you make the mediation agreement? - About a year ago.

- Oh, so they've been sitting around waiting a year for you to keep your word for the mediation, and now there's lots of patience, a year later, and they're going to come after you. That's fairly patient.

- Okay. - If I was going after your throat, I would've come sooner. - Yeah, well, I mean, I said, I'm sure that's why I'm thinking,

should I just get the heat lock to just pay them? - Yeah.

- I have no other-- - Yeah, that'd be a great idea.

Or better than that. Do you have an attorney,

“or are you working with this person's attorney or what?”

- No, it's just prophesied, just self. - Okay, but does he have or she have an attorney representing them? - No. - Okay, so both of you just walked up

before Judge Judy ended this. - Yes. - Oh crap. - Okay, and I'm guessing that it's real tense between the two of you.

- I mean, I can try again. - No, I'm asking my question. Is it tense between the two of you? - Yes. - Yeah, I would think, I would think.

Okay, 'cause here's what I would normally do,

and I don't know that it, I don't think it'll work here, is I would ask their attorney what they would accept if we just wrote them a check. If I go borrow the money on a he-lock and write them a check, what's the minimum mouth that'll accept

to settle this debt? If this was a bank, they'd take a quarter on the dollar. You could settle it for three or four grand, but this is a pissed off individual, so you may not get at any discount.

Okay, but yeah, if you have the ability to go borrow the money on a he-lock and pay them, I would, they were there for you and your time of need, you owe them the money, you have the ability to pay them the money,

by doing the he-lock, I'd go get a he-lock. - Okay. - Because the other thing is, this is taking a lot of stress on you. And when this person and this lawsuit and this mediation and all this garnishment is out of your life,

you're gonna sleep better, would you agree? - Yeah. - Is there a possibility to go, is your credit and set shambles that you couldn't go down to a local bank, local credit union

and get a personal line of credit for 14 grand? - I don't know, I can try doing that, but like I have other, you know, the divorce just really put me in a big hole, so I still owe more than just a 14,000- - What else do you owe, Victoria?

- I mean, I owe my credit card, I owe my own lawyer. How much do you owe your old lawyer? - Oh, like 30,000. - 'Cause here's my fear, you're gonna treat your he-lock, just like you've treated this past friend

and your past attorney, and you're gonna end up losing your house. - No, I'm a single mom, I have, you know, I've been just trying to hold on, you know? - I got that, but if you take a he-erk out

what you're doing is you're putting your house on the block,

“that means you have to have to pay this office.”

- What is your house? - What's your house worth? - My home is worth, I'd say about 350. - And what do you owe? - No, about 275. - Okay, and how much debt do you have?

14 and three to your lawyer, and how much on the credit card? - About three. - Okay, and what other debt? - And then I have like a student loan.

- How much? - And how much, how much is the student loan? - Well, my student loan, I'd say it's about $15,000. - Okay, all right. I want you to put the divorce in your rear view mirror.

I want you to get your fight back. I want you to list these debts out. I want you to take six jobs and attack these debts and clean them up as fast as possible. So much has been happening to you,

and now it's time for you to happen to things. No more victim. You're gonna have to be a victor. Now, you're not a victim of the divorce. You're gonna have to stand up and fight girl

and fight your way through this, and you can do it. (upbeat music)

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to see 37027. (upbeat music) And so if you have a pile of that and no money and life kicks you in the side of the head,

now you've got a real mess.

And bouncing back is hard, emotionally psychological john financially. And if you have an emergency fund of $20,000 and no dad except your home and you have get in life kick you in the side of the head,

you're emotionally in a different place to bounce back because you don't feel unsafe. You don't feel vulnerable. Like I'm about to be homeless. My check is getting ready to be garnished.

This divorce set me back. This illness in our family, set us back. This job loss, set us back. This name, name your tragedy, name your poison. But it's coming, that thing is coming every time.

And there's, you know, being ready for it financially by being out of debt and having an emergency fund, you know, when there's an emergency, hello, it does help. It doesn't, it doesn't keep the problem from being there.

It doesn't keep the depending on the extent of the tragedy, the extent of the event, how bad it was, but even then, people recover at different speeds from a nasty divorce, a job loss that was devastating,

a death in the family, a death in the family, whatever, I mean, those are the three things that come to mind. But, you know, so, yeah, my husband died. My wife died, we lost a child. We, you know, my company, you know,

was making serious money and they just walked in one day in corporate America and they just cut my head off, just inspired me, I didn't see it coming. And, or my husband, a 23 years, we walked in and said he had a girlfriend, and we're done.

And I haven't worked in the workplace in, you know, 12 years. And so, I don't know what I'm gonna do now. And people recover from those things that different speeds, different resilience almost. John, what is the reason I'm setting all that up

is I want to ask you on the air?

“What are the principles if you're facing something like that?”

Where you wanna be, I think, is within a certain number and months, you want to have that tragedy. It still hurts, it's still betrayal, it's still whatever it is. But you wanna have it in the rear view mirror and be looking forward.

Other than, you know, but sometimes when I take a call or we take a call here, they talk about that thing that happened in such fresh terms that you think it was 10 minutes ago and you find out later in the call, it was six years ago, right?

And they're still living back there emotionally. What causes people to be able to move past the horrible thing that happens because it's horrible, it's trauma. But how do you move past trauma and get it in your rear view mirror as fast as is healthy?

- I like to think of it not in terms of getting past it as much as I'm just gonna start taking action. If you lose a child, that will be with you forever. If your spouse walks in after 25 years and says, I got a girlfriend,

You'll be on guard for that for the rest of your life. My goal in that moment is I don't pass that on to my kids. But I get to decide, and this is honestly where a group of people, this is where a community, this is where a good group of friends,

a good group of failing members, even a therapist,

“if you have to call somebody or a minister,”

this is where when you can't carry on your own, people walk alongside you and help carry the load. But I have to start taking the next right action. And what I'll find is after two months, after four months, after six months, this thing may still be on me,

but I'm gonna be stronger, and I'm gonna have moved down the road a little bit. It's when you just stop and it surrounds you like a fog, and there's no one to help lift that fog, there's no one to shine a light in there,

and there's no action taken moving forward, that you wake up two years, three years, seven years, 20 years, and it says though it just happened to you. 'Cause you haven't taken that step, so let's start moving towards a new thing.

And I don't know where this process happens in the brain, and I'll be interested to your take on this. But the Bible says out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, and so what I have noticed is is the language that we use is an indicator,

as to whether we're taking action and moving forward, or whether we're sitting in the acid. - That's right, yeah, yeah. - Like because the language acts like, I'm still there, and it was six years ago, right.

The language sounds fresh, and the words you use. So do you consciously say I'm gonna choose different words, or do you just choose a different dance, a different posture and the words, then change? - Probably a little bit of both.

I think it's a cocktail of genetics and life, experience, et cetera. I think that's the beauty of a show like this, is what you've been doing for so long, is some people don't have people in their life to speak those words, some people don't have wise counsel,

some people don't have a hand that can reach out and pick 'em up. And some people don't have a close friend of mine,

when she was pregnant with a third kid,

her husband just up and said I'm out left. And I remember saying a few years later, I don't know how you did that. How she had to get on, she was on welfare for a while. Now this many years later, she's got a great career,

she's crushing, she's remarried, her new husband's awesome. But I said, I don't know how you did that. And she said something to stuck with me, she said, I had to. And I think there is a gap between,

I have to, I got three mouths to feed, I've got to do something, and there's this gap, and culturally, that gap has gotten wider and wider, I don't have to have to have to, right? I can continue to stay complacent,

I'm just not gonna pay, I'm just not gonna do this, I'm gonna let these things go to collections, and I'll get this judgment against me. You'll pay the pipe for it, some poor someday, you're gonna have to, but our culture's allowed,

that there'd be a bigger and bigger space, and it what happens is you're sitting at basting in it. A literal survival, I have to, we don't have literal survival anymore. Yeah, the way that we're struggling with.

“I mean, that's how I felt when we went bankrupt.”

That was a life-changing tragedy experience, I lost everything, I've got a brand new baby, Rachel, a toddler, Denise, a marriage hanging on by a thread, and people were like, so how did you get up and go to work? I had to, I have to, especially about a 30 year,

40 years ago, there wasn't a programs or wasn't,

I have to write the second.

There had to be money, there was a baby that wanted milk. You know, there was a, I'm one in formula, there was diapers, there was an electricity that had been cut off and didn't need to be cut off again. I had to go to work, yeah, that day.

I didn't file bankruptcy and then take a week off, and mourn the tragedy that I'd been through for the last two and a half years prior to that. I didn't PTSD, I didn't have time for, I couldn't spell it. (laughing)

- Well, I think the bigger thing is, wherever you find yourself, most of us believe, and again, it's another cultural lie, it's the air we breathe, that in the right time or when things feel right, then I'm gonna go.

I need to get my confidence back and then I'll go do X-Y-Z. And the fallacy there is, your body gains confidence through action. You begin to go look full or think your way and to comprehend, you don't think your way into being well.

Confidence comes from competence, from doing. You begin acting well, and your body starts to stand up taller, and you start to be able to breathe a little deeper. You don't sit in your house and say, I just wanna, when I can breathe better, then I'll go.

I'm gonna start, I'm gonna download an app and start doing breathe and exercises in my living room,

“'cause that's what I gotta do right now, right?”

And you begin taking tiny, tiny actions. And man, you look up six months, seven months later,

some of those things will never be in your review mirror,

but they're not gonna be so suffocating. They'll be with you, but you'll be taking action moving through it. Now, there's always gonna be a tender spot where that scar is.

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was 28 years old, so that's almost 40 years ago. And I can hear someone's voice here on the air,

I can feel it, my mouth starts tighten up.

Oh yeah. I mean, I remember that.

“And I talk to any number of parents who lost the child,”

10 years ago, 20 years ago, within 30 seconds, they'll be in tears again. That will be with you. But I'm gonna take the next right, action. I actually like what our buddy Jaco says,

do we talking about service members that runters care they lost? I got two, I got two lives to live now. I got three lives worth of laughter, three lives worth of adventure, three lives,

worth of giving and generosity to live now. But it's taking that responsibility and saying, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit the answer to the overall thing as action is action. Instead of paralysis.

Take action, and if you can't take action,

get someone to reach out and pull your,

like take somebody's hand, and let them pull you into action. That's right. (upbeat music) Let me tell you what I get asked all the time.

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Call 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com for a quick and easy quote. That's zander.com. Kenneth is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Kenneth, how are you? Hey, good, how are you?

Better than I deserve, what's up? Yes, sir. So I wanted to call an ask you guys about opinions on refinancing political school loans in order to pay them off quicker. This recently graduated medical school,

and I'll be starting at a five-year residency here next month. I have about $100,000 in loans. And I would love to be able to pay them off from the next five years. I wish you a residency here, I didn't know.

I didn't think residents were five years. They didn't deserve it. They don't need an orchard to get surgery.

“As you guys say, you're going to be a fancy pants, huh?”

Good for you. Yes. There you go. Thank you. So what do you make during residency?

Sorry, I'll do that. How much will you be making as a resident? Oh, in residency, I'll be making about $68,000 to start. And I'll also have an additional about $16,000 from military disability compensation

each year as well. Thank you for your service. Are you married? Thank you. Sorry.

I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. So we're dealing with $85,000 income for the $100,000 in debt.

And so $20,000 a year does that in five years, right? Yes. Correct. That should be doable. A single guy who can't do anything but work all the time.

You know, he got time to spend him on it. Correct. Now the trade-off to that is being able to contribute to my retirement as well. No, hold on. Yeah.

No, no retirement. Take a student on clear. Okay. 100% of any free money you can get your hands on on the 100 grand. If you can get done in three years, I'd be great.

That's 33 a year. You probably could do that. Wait. If you could get done in two years, that'd be 50 a year. When you lived on beans and rice and lived like a college student.

Right. Hmm. That's a thought. Yeah. The more intense you are, the deeper you sacrifice, the faster you get out.

That's how the math works. And by the way, 100% of your doctor friends are going to think you've lost your dad-gun mind because they're all stupid with money. But musicians, doctors, and sports figures, bad with money, buying large.

So yeah, anyway, so don't listen to other people in the medical professional. What to do with money. It's a bad place to get advice. Get advice from them on orthopedics, but not on money. How old are you?

28, almost 29. All right. Can I paint you a picture real quick? Do it 34. You don't own anybody, any money.

You're a board certified orthopedic surgeon head, not into the world. Mike in the 600.

Making, yeah, half a million dollars.

And you get to keep 100% of it because you've got, you've got attendings that you've

“got supervisors who are still pan-off their student loans, don't you?”

Yeah. Yes. Don't be one of them. 234 years old, making a half a million dollars to start before you end up buying your own practice a few years later and keep 100% of your money based off decisions you

decided to make at 29. Yeah. So I would say sit down and map it out in detail, but 24 to 36 months, I'd be clear this. And then we can talk about saving towards retirement and/or saving towards anything else.

And your military services, what's done this for you? Where you're getting out with only 100. And now you're in a position to clear that, but because you've got some income from the military service, and you've got a great residency and obviously you're bright. So just apply a system to this, like you were prescribing this to a patient.

You say, okay, either you do the physical therapy or you'll walk with a lamp. You get your choice. So do the physical therapy, right? And that's what John and I are saying. Do the hard stuff now so that you can walk properly later and try to find a metaphor

of the fish. No pun intended for the orthopedic. I was pun totally intended.

“But hey, I think that's a third call this our day.”

Whenever you get that first big paycheck, you cross that first big finish line. If you can hold tight, you set yourself up forever. And I, man, I've lived it. I get it. You cross that finish line, and it's like crossing mile one of a marathon, and you just

want to be so happy that you're in a good one mile time, you've got to keep running. And man, if I could tell anybody, whether you're just graduating from med school, head into residency, just like that caller in the very first call, we took that young man who is man, been down on his luck.

He got a job, make a 65, which for him is a million dollars.

If you can just hang tight and consider future you at five years down the road, ten years down the road, you can set yourself up forever. Yeah. So the deeper you can cut Kenneth and the less you can live on, make a game out of it. And say, all right, I'm going to set this up for 24 months, and it'll be like holding your

breath for 24 months. And then you can exhale after that. You can start retirement. You can start a lot of stuff. Build your emergency fund up.

You can do a lot of stuff once you're clear that. But if you tinker around with these student loans people, you end up keeping them like they think they're a pet. And you look up 15 years later and your student loan needs a shave. I mean, it's ridiculous, you know.

So it's, um, these prop, there's a problem.

“Alvaro is with us in Kansas City, hey Alvaro, what's up?”

Hey, what's going on? Dave, hey John, this I'm grateful for this call and this one say thank you for answering. Well, thank you. Yeah, so this is where I'm at. Um, I make 160 my wife makes 90.

We, so 250 gross. Wow. We live on about half our take home after taxes, tires, and 401k. Wow. Do we save about 6k a month?

Wow. Our house is worth 350 with 119 left on the mortgage at a 3.5 APY. And my current, my previous plan was let's just, they're all the cash, be completely paid off by October next year and then save up about 120 and two years to move into the new house. What's happened since then is that one street over, someone got shot and killed and about

a year and a half prior to this, there's been other shootings. So it's a $100,000 neighborhood, they're shooting up and down the street in Kansas City. Yeah, it's a busy road and so it's not the neighbors, thankfully, but it's just people randomly walking in night. That's strange.

Okay. Does this does this sound like it's in the hood or something? No, no. Yeah. So, you don't want to live in a shooting gallery, so you're going to move.

Okay. Yep.

But the plan was first, you know, paid off completely, save up again.

But now what I'm doing is I'm just saving for that next down payment and we wanted to keep this home as a rental long term.

If you don't want to live there, why do you want to own it?

Right. That's not an investment. I mean, you don't buy investments where the neighborhood's going down, they're shooting up and down the street. That's a great place to invest.

No.

“Yeah, I would put, the only thing holding you back brother is you have this fantasy that”

this was going to be a rental house. Yeah. If you can let that story go, you're free. So, like, go buy your house, pay that house off, then save up some money and go buy your rental in a neighborhood that they don't shoot down the street.

Okay.

So, do you still think I should wait and pay it off, pay down my mortgage?

I thought you were going to, I thought you were unsafe and you were going to leave. Yeah. I put a sales sign in the yard this weekend. Okay. If that's what you want to do.

I mean, is it unsafe or not? Yeah. So, that's a weird thing. I feel like there's going to be pockets of unsafeity, but it's generally feels safe. Are you married?

Yep. There's your wife on your own. I eventually, yeah.

“Now, does she want to move because of this?”

Yes. They move. Move. Yeah. Yeah.

I just tell you what to do when I would do if I was in your situation. Absolutely. I'll be out of there. But for the same reasons that you're not going to live there, you don't keep it. There's an investment.

I don't buy investments where they shoot down the street. It's not like, no, that's not going to go up in value. You're not going to get great return and great quality renters. Kind of what kind of renter are you going to get where they shoot down the street? The co-cad, man.

I mean, that's no, thank you. Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank?

“Because if you're still earning next to nothing on your savings, you need to check out”

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Jessica is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Jessica. Oh, are you? Better than I deserve, what's up in your world? Yeah, so I have been married to my husband's 16 years now with four kids.

I'm contemplating if we should divorce or not. We are completely drowning in debt. Our mortgage is in forbearance. She hasn't filed taxes in three years, it's just like snowball one thing after the next, but like $48,000 in debt, I don't know what to do.

What do you make? Um, I make about 30,000 a year who work at a school. What does he make? Well, he's been out of work since the summer, and he told me he was leaving in March to go out of state to work with some friends, and he really hasn't sent me anything.

Is he still gone? Yes, he's still gone. So if behavior is a language, as he told you through his actions, I'm leaving you. Um, yeah, I mean, in March, we went to our marriage counseling session. We've been going for six years, and after about five minutes of me talking, he ended up

leaving, and told me he was gone, um, it sounds like I followed through on that.

He's left the house. I agree.

I agree, but then he flew home last week, this year, kids for their birthdays, and basically

it was like, I still love you. I don't want to get a divorce, but then you left again, and he's been gone for a week and a half now, and I've only heard from him one. Yeah, I hate this for you.

“I think it's just, it sounds to me just as a neutral third party guy, I'm just a dude on”

the radio. It seems really clear to me what's happened. Right. And being home for a couple of days or one day seeing the kids, then being excited, he got home, you seeing him kind of surprised.

I can even go with him that he liked the idea of that. Right. But his actions are not of a man who wants to be married and build a life with somebody. His actions are not of somebody who wants to be a present father. Is he sending checks?

No, he didn't send any money. No, he hasn't sent me. Yeah, so I think it's metabolizing this awful heartbreaking truth. He left you. Do you have any idea what he makes?

He's not really making anything. He told me that he and some friends out of state wanted to start up their own company, and

basically all the money that they've been making has been put back into the company.

He said that he paid off a few bills in March. I'm sorry, not March in May, but in reality, I paid like 90% of the bills in May, and I've paid at least a quarter of them for June. But I can't really afford to continue to pay anything else. Our mortgage is put into forbearance.

What is your home worth? What's your home worth? Well, it looks like we still owe 433,000. We bought it for 421. But what's it worth?

We owe 15,000. The realtor came by and pretty much said, because there's a ton of unfinished projects. They could probably sell it for 430. But he said, if we get all the projects for them, you basically get out of it, even. Yeah, but I would have not really ever discovered that only his name is on the house.

I don't think that matters in Texas. Yeah, I'm not sure.

“Yeah, I think you're going to be okay on that.”

Yeah. And it's been married 16 years. I think you have my little rights to that house. Yeah. Let's back up a little bit.

This is not a person of integrity, your husband. He hadn't paid taxes in three years. I promise you, he hasn't told you the truth about everything over the course of 16 years. Is that true? Yes.

Okay, so I wouldn't believe him. Yeah, I wouldn't believe him if he suddenly started telling you, he's got to reinvest all this money. Here's the truth. You have no idea where he is and what he's doing.

Exactly. All you can deal with is you, the only person you can control right now is you. And I feel like you're attached to a weight that's pulling you underwater and the weight occasionally says I want to swim, but you're the one paying the price for that right now.

Yeah, I mean, we're completely trauma bonded. She got shot in 2022 and it completely shook our family. I got that. I got that. It'd be very careful, it'd be careful of what I would call therapy speak, internet speak,

all that kind of stuff right now.

The bottom line is your husband's not been home and he's not sending money home for

a long time after he walked out of the marriage counselor's office and said I'm done. And you got four kids. That's your home. That's real. Yes.

That's not on TikTok. That's real. That's right. Exactly. Because forget the diagnostics, forget the trauma, but all that stuff.

“The question you got to ask yourself is, is the hard one, what are you going to do now?”

Well, that's what I'm calling you for. I can't afford to leave. I can barely afford to take care of me or the kids right now. I can barely afford gas to get myself to go to work right now. You could live in a much cheaper place than that house.

Oh, I mean, I'm going to have to be over $15,000 on it. I know. Yeah. And somebody making a payments now aren't they? No, it's in forbearance.

No, forbearance is you make a payment in a half. No, we haven't made any payment. We owe $50,000. That's not forbearance. That's default.

Are you in for closure? Well, no, the paperwork that I have, it says forbearance. Okay. Forbearance is when you're making your payment plus some to catch up on your back payments. You are not doing that.

You're not in forbearance. Okay. Okay. You're in default. How many, how long has it been since you all paid a payment?

March.

You're in default.

“You need to get this house on the market today.”

You're going to lose it. Right.

And then you're going to get, how do I do that when it's in his name?

Because I had two realtors come over and they both told me that all the projects need to be done. You're not going to do the projects. You don't have any money and you don't have anybody to do the projects. So you need to put the house on the market and you need to sell it now and you need to call

him and tell him or sell in the house and that I'm having a divorce, and I'm having divorce papers filed on you. That may be the only way you can get your name on there is through divorce settlement. I'm not sure there's any money. I don't care.

I don't know if you want your money and name on it. Right. It's not going to bring enough to cover the bills. And if it does, you know, well, I'll argue about it then, but if she puts on the market and he says I don't want to sell it from afar, can he do that if he's just only

name on there? Ah, that'll be up to her divorce attorney. Right. Okay. To convince him.

Yeah, you may have to get it to cover him. He has four children and by the way, there's child support due and probably I don't know if they do. I don't know if they do. I don't know if they do, I don't know if they do.

I don't know if they do. I don't know if they do. I don't know if they do. I don't know if they do. I don't know if they do.

I don't know if they do. It says you have four children that need to be fed. That's what it says. And since March, that ain't cool. Yeah.

That ain't cool. And Jessica, can we say that? I hate that for you, man. I hate this for you. Yeah.

Cali. Daddy needs to be feeding the babies. I'm to do it. But so you don't get to go off and play with your friends in another land. It's not how this works.

You made babies. You get to feed them.

“That's how it's how it's functioning society works and we either functioning will make”

you do that. And we should. Yeah. Jeez. I'm sorry, Jessica.

I'm sorry. I want through this. I think you're done, honey. Hey, guys, George Camel here.

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But if you actually think about that saying, you can ask yourself, okay, if that's true, why is it true? The rich get richer because the rich keep doing the stuff that got them rich. Rich people stuff, like live on less than you make, stay out of debt, be generous, be in agreement with your spouse.

“This is what rich people do, that's how they got rich, and they keep doing rich people”

stuff, and it makes them richer. Poor people, there's two reasons people are poor. One is, I mean, in America, anyway, in the United States of America, where poor people are some of the richest people in the world, but in America there's two reasons people are poor.

One is they're being oppressed, and some jerk, some predator is taking advantage of them and holding them down. That is real, that happens all the time. And in other words, if you drive down the poor into town, you'll see payday lenders, tote to no car lots, rent to own, pawn shops.

rich people don't do that stuff.

That's poor people stuff. That's people taking advantage of poor people, right? The other reason poor people are poor is when I was poor. Actually, I was not poor, I was just broke. Mike Todd said that there's a difference between being poor and being broke.

Poor is a state of mind, broke is I'm just passing through. I angle stay here, and we'll do something to get out. I've been broke a couple times in my life, so when I started and then went I went broke. So if you do broke people stuff, you'll continue to be broke. If you do rich people stuff, you'll continue to be rich.

“Let me tell you, if you're going to win at anything what you have to do, you have to”

have a plan to win and execute on the plan. In money that's called doing a budget, you lay out and you tell your money what to do because you want it to do something good instead of just pissing it away. Thank God it's Friday, oh God, it's Monday. Set all the broke people, then just take it easy and they mean it.

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Play. Mike is with us in Austin, Texas, hey Mike, what's up? Hey Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve, how can I help? Yeah, Dave, I'm considering retiring sometime in the next six months to a year.

Fine. I spent some time learning to invest a way that worked for me, I mean some of the stakes early on. And this will be the first time that I've instead of contributing and having that monthly income for my monthly cost of living expenses that I'll actually instead of contributing

to retirement or to an investment account that I'm actually going to be withdrawing from my cost of living. And I'm wondering, you see, if there's things that I can avoid upfront that I lessons learned that I had to learn the hard way early on when I was younger when I was investing.

How much do you have in your next start with your, without the house, about 7.8 million?

Oh man, Mike, I thought you were after, after you set that up, I thought you were going to say you had about 30,000 bucks. So what is that 7.8 in, is that all in retirement accounts? It's in 4.1K, it's in index funds, and then some stocks, and then a couple years of cash. Okay.

All right. Very cool. When's the last time you did a cartwheel?

“Because if you haven't done one recently, you should start.”

Why did it go, man? How much of this did you inherit? None. Yeah, I'll look at you. I'm so proud of you.

Well, done, sir. Well, you need to sit down with your financial advisor. I'm sure you have one, and ask them what the tax efficient withdrawals are. The least efficient. That's my big question.

The least efficient, how old are you? 55. 55. Okay. You're not going to be able to touch your 401k, as you know, until after 59 and half,

but you don't want to touch them anyway, because everything you're withdrawing there is going to be ordinary income, as you know. And you've got, if you've got some index funds that have appreciated, your withdrawals on that will be a capital gains rate. So that's pretty tax efficient.

You probably have some stocks that you could begin to liquidate that the gains would be a capital gains rate, because you've held them more than a year. And so capital gains rate, what's your income? That'll be $3.50.

“If you break that, I believe it used to be $400, I think it may be $450 now, then you get”

into a 20% capital gain instead of a $15, but talk to your tax advisor, your financial advisor.

But I think you're going to liquidate the non 401k stuff first.

And you're not going to liquidate. And then you're probably just going to take the income off of it. The growth? Yes, I just want what I need to live on monthly. Now, much of you got, say, an index funds, and so the market is already up just under

10% for the year on index funds, which would be $400,000 so far this year, which is more than you need. Right. So you could live off of a portion of the income created from the index funds easily

Now, having said that, I want you to also sit with your tax advisor and your financial

“advisor and begin a strategy to start moving some of the 401k money on a steady stream”

into Roth and pay taxes on it now. The cause, how much is in 401k again? Uh, green million. Okay. So that's going to roughly, if it's in good mutual funds, it's going to double about

every seven years.

So when you're 62, that's 6 million, when you're 69, that's 12 million and all of that

is taxable at ordinary income and taxable to your kids at ordinary income. That sucks and you've got required minimum distributions of 73, 72 and a half. That's right. Okay. RMDs.

So because of that, I'm 66, I'm getting ready to be, I have years ago moved everything into Roth and went in and paid taxes on it before it doubled. So all the doubling has zero taxes and the inheritance has zero taxes. Because Roth is inherited deck as well. So and I don't have RMDs, because it's in real life.

So I want you to begin to move that 3 million at a steady pace and pay some taxes to do it to Roth because before it doubles and triples and quadruples, I want it to be in tax free growth and all that doubling and quadrupling and so forth. It'll be dead. Come, son.

Okay.

“So if I'm Mike, 7.8, I think I would cash out stocks today.”

And pay it all on one lump sum now, if I could. Is that, would that be dumb? No, it would not be dumb. Depending on, I guess the capital gains might kill me on top. I mean, he's already making 400.

So yeah, probably not be dumb, because you're probably maxed out on taxes either way. Your RMDs are going to max you out on taxes. So yeah. That'd be one scale. One scale.

One scale. These numbers are so big that it does, it changes the equations. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, I think you might be right, John.

“But I just, I change everything to Roth instantaneously every time I get anything that's”

not Roth. And so I just go ahead and pay the taxes right then. Yeah. And so there's a case to be made to move the whole 3 million this year to Roth. And just bite that bullet.

It's one ugly tax payment and you'll never make one again on that.

On that money. If you keep putting money in 401k, you've got to change that to Roth as well. And go with that. Your match is never in Roth and so you've got to convert it to Roth at the end of your every year.

I was just what I'd do. But yeah. Who? Wow. Well done, brother.

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Sierra writes, "I've been engaged for three years, but after finding out last week

in that my fiance cheated on me, I called off the wedding. He had talked to me into financing our $8,000 wedding rings, and now refuses to help pay them off. The debt is in my name. Would it be smart to get another loan to pay off these rings if the current interest is really high?

I have four kids to support, so every cent that comes into my account matters. I just want to move forward, how do I do it?

“I honestly Sierra, here's what I would do.”

You did a big, hard, scary thing by saying, I'm worth more getting married to somebody who's not going to cheat on me. So I'm not doing this. Good for you. Good for you.

Exactly. Good for you.

The next sentence, he talked me into financing our $8,000 wedding rings.

I'd stop right there, and I'd reframe this as I chose to finance our $8,000 wedding rings. Take full ownership of every action you took, and then that reframes this whole thing. I made a big decision that I'm worth more than this, and that big decision also came with a financial cost because I chose to finance expensive, expensive wedding rings. I'm going to be in charge of dealing with what comes next, and I get, man, you got four

kids, it's brutal, it's brutal, but getting another loan to cover up, it's just, you're just going to compound this issue. I would. Remember one, we're going to sell the rings. Sell the rings and then pay the difference.

That's what I would do. Sell the rings and pay the difference. Fast as you can. Yeah. Now, there's two other things I'd add to it.

Number one, I don't know how long you've had the rings. We don't know that in this particular email. I'd swing back by that jewelry store, ask for the manager, the owner, if it's a local store, and tell them your story, and say, I have four children, the guys above me cheated on me, and you don't owe me anything, but would you help me, mercy?

Would you give me some credit by them back? Will you help me get out of this mess? Can I put them in here on consignment and get the most form at a retail setting versus pawning them, help me, and don't come in there acting like the jewelry store did something wrong.

They didn't. They did what jewelry stores do. They sold your rings and you financed them, and that's that's on you. Just ask the owner or the manager for some mercy, some help. I think you'll find yourself a listening ear, because they sell wedding rings, and they

might sell you another one someday. If they take care of you, guess who's going to hear about it, everyone you know.

“You're going to say nice things about those people, and you would, and you should, that's”

thing number one. Thing number two is, I don't know what all is going on here, but I'm pretty pissed at

this guy right this second, and so I would, let's just pretend.

I'm going to make something up, because she has four kids. These aren't a couple of 18-year-olds, okay? So I'm going to pretend he has some money, and he's a jerk and won't pay his part of the rings. I'm going to pretend that for a second.

And so then I'm going to ask a family friend that's an attorney to contact him and let him know that we're going to sue him for breach of contract, because he breached our marriage contract when he cheated on me, and the settlement is $8,000. I'm just going to mess with him, just put it on, I'm not really going to do it, but I'm actually going to make him think I'm going to do it, just to have some fun here.

But now, if he's a broke jerk and he's just out digging ditches or whatever, leave him alone, it's not worth the trouble. But I'm just going to pretend that he has a big old pile of money, he's driving a fancy car, and he don't want the hassle of Sierra being all up in his business. So between those two things, maybe we can add a little edge to this and get you out of

the rings. Wow. One, I go for mercy, the other one I go for the throw for the throw for the blow. Please, give me mercy. I'm going to kill you, by the way.

“I want to harp on this line, I just want to move forward, but how do I do it?”

That's good. Take action. Take action. Take action. And look at the rings, don't keep them in your house, quit, quit, get rid of them, don't

use his name in your house anymore. And lay out a game plan. And if you do this attorney thing, I'm half joking, I'm half not, but if you did something like that, make it real quick and it's over and it's in the rear view mirror, just see if we can get him right a check, just for the fun of it.

Because he actually morally ethically does, oh, yeah, this back. Because he's the one that breached the contract, actually, if you really want to be technical

I'm talking about the law, I'm talking about ethics.

Well, do you have a contract, if you shake hands on a, it's a contract on a, on a, on a, it's not worth a paper, it's a contract engagement. Yeah. It's a contract. It is a contract.

You made a promise. And based on that promise, there was a financial transaction. Yeah. And so there's damages. And I'm not an attorney, I'm just going to have some fun with it.

It just happened to be 8,000. I'm going to make a legal case out of it, even if there's not one. I would say move forward and leave it alone, don't say his name again in your house. That means I'm going to own that I sign my name to, yeah, quick as you can. Just financing.

Quick as you can move on past this. Your heart's broken. I do love the idea of going back and looking at the jewel in the eye.

“They may tell you to leave what, what's the worst case scenario?”

You're going to get back in your car in the same situation. You're not out anything. But man, that's, that's, it's worth asking for mercy. That's cool. Chris Kirsten is in Orlando.

Hi, Kirsten, how are you? Hi, Gabe. I'm good. How are you, guys? What's up?

Okay, so I just have some little questions. Me and my husband opened up a company about three years ago now.

It has flourished into something we've never expected it to kind of just drink of it to.

I just want to know if I'm doing the right thing by paying him what we need because we do have credit card debt and stuff, car loans, excavator loan, that kind of thing, health loan. So, I'm just trying to figure out if I can do it. Because everybody has an extra weight or loan.

What in the world? I know.

“I'm guessing you got the dirt moving business, right?”

We own a natural gas and protein company. So we install the gas lines for generators, cook stoves, water heaters. So you bought a backhoe. Yeah. And excavator?

Yeah. Okay. What'd you pay for excavator? Did they go for it and all are ditched? We paid about 37,000 for it.

We find it a lot of ditches.

Yes, we did it when we first opened up the company because to put some of these tanks

in the ground, you can't hand it to them. No. But you could rip one. Yes. But we were spending about $10,000 a month renting one.

No, you weren't. 10 grand? Yeah. It was about $600 a day. If you were spending 10 grand a month, why didn't you just pay cash in three months?

Because we didn't know what to do for money. But you're still doing that. Okay. So what's the profits on your propane tank business? So profit was close to $100,000 a year.

Okay. And that's what you paid taxes on. That was the profit. Yes. And that was before or after you paid your husband's salary for running the business.

After? What does he get paid? I pay. We pay him about 1,500 a week. Okay.

So another 72,000. So include your household income from this business would be 172,000. Yes. And how much debt do you have? We have quite a bit.

We were a young and dumb. We had credit cards this week alone. We paid about $6,500 just in credit card debt just from a cash savings we had over the years just stuffing it away. We still have a remaining amount.

I'll tell you what. Hang on. I'm going to have to get the rest of the story because I got right down in the middle of it and I can't get to the end of it in the next 20 seconds. When I started, I had great ideas and I knew how to serve people but I didn't have

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So if you've been sitting on the sidelines, it's time to turn those ideas into sign up for your $1 per month trial at Shopify.com/Ramsy. All right, we're talking with Kirsten and Orlando. They started a propane tank business and last year they made a 100,000 profit plus paid him $72,000, so I've made a 100, $72,000 on the business to the household.

And they begun paying off that paid off some credit card debt the other day. Now total, not counting your home, Kirsten, what kind of debt do you have and how much is it? So we owe $57,000 on my car. We owe $26,932 on the excavator and about 7,000 left in credit cards.

So what kind of, why do we have a $60,000 car?

So my car's transmission was going out and I've always dreamed of having a bigger SUV

because I'm a sports mom, so my husband bought me a 2024 Ford Expedition Max. Okay.

“Okay, you need to say that sentence a different way, all right?”

We bought a car that was super expensive, not my husband bought me. You guys made this decision together. Not we did. And I dreamed of putting myself into a nightmareish car debt. Okay.

No, it was nothing in this. It makes it okay, but you know one, no one forced you to do this. So anyway, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. And you paid off $6, $5, $500 out of savings. But if you've got a $172 coming in, what did you guys used to make before you started this business?

He worked full time. I've always been a stay at home mom. Our kids are five and eight.

What did you use to make before you started this business? We made around about the same between 60 to 70. Well, no, now you make $172. This is not the same.

“Yes, if you pull from the business, that's what they--”

Of course we pull from the business. We're broke and we bought a car we can't afford. And we're in debt, of course we're pulling from the business. So what you do, does the business have any debt that you failed to mention? No. Okay, so just the excavator, that's it.

That was the only thing you bought for the business on debt. Yes. Okay, good, good. Okay, so what I would do if I was in your situation is, you have no-- the business is able to run off of cash flow and run the budget and able to buy the things that needs to buy.

And it still nets you guys $172. So you're going to pay taxes on $172. Because you got $72, set up as your income and then you got $100 in profit. Both of those are taxable events in any given calendar year that that occurs. So I'm going to bring most-- if not all of that home, and I'm going to pay off this debt this year, live on the $172 and be debt-free.

If you're unwilling to do that for some reason, then you need to sell this stupid car. Definitely. The car is not stupid. The debt on it was stupid. You bought a car that was completely outside the picture.

And the next time the business needs a piece of equipment, it needs to save up out of profits and pay cash for the equipment. Yes. Okay. So the number of times I have seen people in the construction world buy equipment that they can't afford because they act like the rental fees are killing them. And if the rental fees were literally $10,000 a month, that's $120,000 a year in rental fees.

“I don't believe you. I think your numbers are wrong.”

I'm positive your numbers are wrong, but it doesn't cost $10,000 a month to rent a backhoe from the rental place because you don't need it every day all day long.

and then you drop it back off at Sunbelt or whoever you're running it from.

“And that's what people in the construction business do all the time instead of buying $60,000 a”

backhoe. And even if it did, Dave, what is the hesitancy of a small business owner? Like, let's say, for instance, it was $10,000 a month. And they she bought a, or they bought a $37,000 backhoe. Why wouldn't you as a small business? We went into debt, bought this to preshating asset. We're going to hold off for four months and just with the money we would have

spent anyway and just pay the sucker off in four months in four months. Yeah. I talked to small business owner all the time. What is that hesitancy to pull the money out of the business? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know the idea that what you have to pull it out because it's taxable. So it's technically out of the business. If it's an LLC or a sub S, which it should be, it's a hundred percent taxable. And so it's out, even if it's sitting in the business account,

Ramsey, my money here. If I have make a profit here, just because I leave it in the Ramsey account doesn't help me. I still got to pay taxes on it. Right. I mean, the federal government still comes and takes a chunk of my butt. And so you know, I didn't really leave it in the business. It's just after taxes or somebody's still sitting here, but it can be sitting at home. It can be sitting here. Right. It doesn't matter. The only reason I believe it's sitting here is if I'm

getting ready to spend it on something inside the business. Or if you have a retained earnings account or something, but exactly. But even there, like if my business has that kind of debt on it, it seems like it's paid off. You're clear that you would clear it in four months at least because

“if the rental fees were really $10,000, you should have been able to put $10,000 increase cash flow”

right on that thing and been done with it in four months. And you've got to have that kind of discipline on these equipment purchase decisions because they'll catch up with you. There's two things that kill small business startups like this. And they're doing great. Congratulations, Kirsten. I'm glad. I'm happy you're doing so good. And that's exactly what I do. I live on 72, I put 100 out of there and I'd be a debt free in a year. Simple as that. And the next time you get

ready by a car, you pay for it or you don't buy next time you get ready by equipment, you pay for it, you don't buy it. Just live your life that way. And you'll have a lot simpler like cleaner life. Now, then back to the other thing. The things that kill small businesses is the one thing that kills them is cash flow because they don't keep up with their taxes. They don't keep their books. They don't do their quarterly estimates. And then they get in there. It's the second thing. And

both of those calls cash flow problems. Number one reason for small business failures is cash flow problems, translation, tax problem, not paid, and debt problem. So they 76% of the small businesses in America are carrying credit card debt on the business. They use the stupid master card to do a

business finance. I mean, this is in 37 percent. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then wonder why I have cash flow

problems. Okay. Now, she didn't do that or they may have, but they just paid off the 6,000 there the day. But I don't know if that's business or personal. But so you gotta stay out of that. Then the second thing that kills small businesses is what's killing her. It grows so fast that you don't keep your accounting systems in place and your other processes and systems in place. They don't keep up. You're still running it in the mentality of out of my back pocket.

“And that's what causes people to leave $100,000 in there because they don't know what to do.”

But the federal government doesn't, they have tax that $100 and that $72 the same. Exactly. They've got their piece of it. So if you want to keep a piece of it in that account or this in this account, they don't care. Exactly. It's y'all just choosing to carry debt at your house and leave that money there. Exactly. Might as well take it in home. Well, it's all cleared up. Exactly. Are your taxes and cleared it off? But so success is the second thing,

rapid success. Hockey stick growth up into the right. The crashes business is because they don't get quality people on their team and they don't put systems in accounting systems and overall systems and processes in place that keep you from doing this. Something like retained earnings, something like keeping up with your taxes and all those kinds of things. You've got to keep

up with that. And because you're just making money so fast and you've never seen that kind of money,

your eyes are kind of wide. You're in the street going, whoa, don't hit me with a car. And it's like, wow, I can't, I can't, how can I mess this up? We're just, we've got a warehouse full of cash back here. We're just, I kind of, stack and binge them. And, but you can't out-earn bad processes and bad accounting. It'll catch up with you. Well, and I've known some guys who got into construction who scratched and clawed for so long and then when it hits, they can't say no to anything.

Yep. Because they still live five years ago when they had to say us to every job and then they get way overextended. Get over your skis. Yeah. Get over your skis at big time. That's what happens. And so yeah, you guys got to catch up with that. It sounds like you got a good business to sound like you're hard workers. Sounds like you're doing a good thing. But that's a couple

get your systems caught up and really understand where you are, where your taxes, so that you don't

get burned. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio.

“A list of both is in Grand Rapids. High list of how are you? I'm good. How are you?”

Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a question of laundry. My husband and I have been in our house for five years and I'm in Social Security and we have two separate bank accounts. And I'm afraid to put my Social Security in the bank because he won't pay the mortgage.

Should I put my Social Security in the bank without joining count? How old are you guys?

He's 56 and I'm 55. How long have you all been living like? Did you say 66 and 65? 55. How are you getting Social Security of 55? I'm disabled. I'm on disability. So you have SSI coming and what's the nature of your disability?

“I'm seizures and epilepsy. Wow. How long have you been facing that kiddo?”

I found out back in 1995 what was diagnosed with 2020, 2015. Okay and he is 57 and he makes

what? How much money does he make? He's 56 and he makes $23 an hour and he's also on door

to ask for on the day and he's I mean I'm settled with some mortgage and he's not giving any. Why? He doesn't. He said he's he's trying to figure it out. That's all he gives me. He needs time to figure it out. He's been seeing that since he bought the house and it's almost been five years. Okay well while you're figuring it out go get another place to live because I'm going to let you stay here anymore. It sounds like you've made peace with this arrangement. I don't it doesn't sound

healthy but if that's the world that you choose to inhabit, no I would not put money in an account where he's going to spend it and I'm not I'm going to get kicked out of the house. Okay um I I mean I'm hearing from my family that I shouldn't be paying the mortgage and he should be

“because he has so much husband. How about both of you should be putting all of your money in the”

account and both of you should be deciding what is happening to our money which includes paying the mortgage on our house. That's what normal healthy people do. Y'all are white. No she is. I mean he's not. No you put up with it which makes you laugh. I've been told that and I've been we almost lost the house like not even in fact the year of COVID we were on for parents and it was like I left him. Why would you be on for

parents? You had so security coming in where the COVID came in or not? I know. And you were the one paying the bill? Why did the bill not get paid? Because he's the primary signer. No. You're the one who has paid the bill for five years. Right? Right. So during COVID why were you not the one paying the bill? Because I was with my family and and he was unemployed at the time and after I get after I pay the

mortgage I must have done most nothing. I know y'all you're talking about your home like me and my two college roommates talked about our our little town home that we shared in college. Right. Right. Like hey man I bought pizza so you got to pay the light bill and no the water. No. It's. I know. How long have you all been married? 16 long years. I mean so this is the world y'all have co-created together and it sounds like

it's annoying to you but not annoying enough to leave it. Right. People told me to leave him. I know. I guess we're not telling you to leave him. This is just but so I know that listen there's not a good way for you to manage the situation that you told us

manage a bad situation. So the proper thing to do and I don't think y'all are going to do it.

But if I if I wanted to say I Elizabeth and her husband of 16 long years are going to learn to work together for the good of Elizabeth and her husband and we're going to put our money together and we're going to put our spending together and that includes paying our all of our bills who's going to buy the mustard. We're both buying the mustard. We're both paying the house. Everything goes in one pile and we work that together and we have good communication and we talk

about things. Y'all aren't anywhere near that. You're not even on that planet.

So and I don't know if I don't think I can get you there but if I could talk you guys into it,

“that's what I would talk you into because that's the only thing that is going to work here.”

Otherwise if you put your money into an account that he has access to he's going to blow it and then the house doesn't get paid because you get to pay the house. But I don't know why you're tolerating this level of misbehavior that you use up your entire social security check to pay the house payment and your husband is contributing nothing to that. That is just not right. And so it lacks fidelity. I would I would have a duck fit. You know you're seeing a duck

have a fit. What's a duck fit? I mean it's just I'd have a duck fit. There'd be a problem.

Next time you get mad in the meeting date. That's what it sounds like sometimes when I'm mad in the meeting. But yeah I mean I'm not some things need to change your list but and you are going to be the cause of the change or you're going to tolerate the lack of change. One or the two. So far you've tolerated the lack of change and then you've got to decide if that's going to continue to be the script in your old life. Matthew is in Pittsburgh.

Hey Matthew. What's up? Hi Dave. Thank you for all the wonderful work you do for everybody. Thank you and your staff. I really appreciate it. Thanks for taking my call. So I have a question. I have a question regarding just remaining healthy in my financial goals and how much is too much. So right now collectively we have about 280,000 that 210 of that is the house for a baby step two. I plan on having all of that except for the house paid off by August of 2029. Hopefully

when the extra comes in I can get more thrown toward that and then the house paid off within

“eight more years after that and be completely debt free by the time I'm 52. What's your household income?”

About a hundred and 45,000 a year. Okay and you're talking about paying 20,000 dollars a year. Yeah. We all, yeah. Why? Why not more? Well we also started a small business because my life's goal is to work from home. No longer work outside of home. I'm sorry. That's great. Does it make money? Yes. We start a back in January and it's currently making about a thousand a month.

Is that the hundred and forty five thousand? Yes. Okay. Sure. If you make a hundred and forty five thousand, why can you not put more than twenty two thousand dollars towards debt? Well some of that is going back into the business. So I had to then you're not making a hundred and forty five thousand. Yeah. The business is making a profit of a thousand dollars after reinvestment or not.

Now, now. Okay. We don't open a business as sucking money when we're in debt. This business needs to make money now. She quit her job to spin money. No, we're not doing that.

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Emily is an Oklahoma city. Hi Emily. How are you? I'm good. How are you?

“Better than I deserve, what's up? Get it. So my dad left passed away and recently and he left”

only quite a bit of money. Thank you. And my fiance and I agreed that it's my inheritance. But you concerned about the financial imbalance between us. And he came from the force and that woman took advantage of him. And so I feel like he's kind of like operating out of fear. I'm trying to figure out what fairness looks like in our marriage and what your advice would be. A pre-nup? Yeah. So we have we have that. Okay. We have that going and then what does the pre-nup

say about the future growth of wealth, not the current state? I'm not sure I've met with the lawyers. They were saying that the trust that my dad has left is mine. I'm going to be creating

“a trust where all of this is going into. Okay. And I guess from she's side,”

she wants to create a his own trust. And he feels like he needs to catch up. Like he's not. No, he doesn't. He can't catch up. I know. He's going to do something stupid trying to catch up.

How much money did your dad leave you? Over five million. Yeah. He didn't catch up. Yeah. So the

trust just sits over here is a third thing. There's you, making money and y'all build money together. There's your husband, future husband, making money building money together. He doesn't need a trust. He doesn't need money. He does a little bit. He does anesthesia. So we have pretty good income together. So our income is our incomes. And we share those. And we share what we do with those going forward. He does not need a trust. And he does not need to catch up. The trust is

sitting over here to the side. The two of you build a life together with your incomes. I wouldn't fool with that in the thing. And I would let the trust, you know, he has no access to that in the event of divorce. But any time you get ready to use money, you're going to use it for us.

Yeah. You know, and so if we decide to buy a lake house later for, you know, for a million

dollars. And this trust has grown to ten million dollars. And I pull a million dollars out and buy us a lake house. That's fine. The lake house is in the name of the trust. And but we are going to use it for our family, our kids and our grandkids and whatever. I'm making up something. Okay. But you can use some of the trust money for the benefit of the family and the stuff still leaves still stays in the name of the trust. And so the money, the five million and any growth it turns into

stays yours. And but keep it over to the side and then you all just combine everything else and could try to be, you know, like he has to catch up. Yeah. That's it. That's ego talking. Yeah.

“I think it's more so like if we were to get divorced, he exactly. He wants to have enough money for”

himself. I don't know. He doesn't. He does not need a pre-nup. You do. Yeah. He doesn't have any money. Yeah. And he's an anesthesiologist. If you'll get divorced, you all, you'll be fine. He's going to make a lot of money. We're going to make a lot of money together. You're marrying an anesthesiologist. He's making 400 years, right? Around three. And he should be making four. Okay. But but here we did see he's a CRNA. So they do the same job. Yeah. Oh, he's okay. Here what Dave said, it's really

important. There's this thing over here. But y'all are building a life together.

Right. The fact that that five million dollars landed in your lap has changed the way you all

were talking about your future. Yeah. And it shouldn't have. Don't let it. It sits over there by itself. And then you guys still have the future you would have had together. One check in account. We have an income. Right. Okay. I made all of the income in the Ramsey household for the last 40 years. My wife has not earned a dime. But we have a great income. And there is no pre-nup on that income. We don't have a pre-nup anyway. We started with nothing. But the point is, and we went back a couple

times. But anyway, but all that to say. So he has an income that's bigger than yours. But that doesn't

dollars not dropped in your lap. Yeah. And so it doesn't need to be a discussion now. You'll

aren't competing with each other. No, I know. No, we're combining everything except the five. And the five sits over here is a separate entity. And it grows. And we handle the investments on that. And we may use some of the money to buy something that the family, you and your husband, and future kids if you have any all that kind of stuff are all going to do together. That's all

“great. There's nothing wrong with that. But just, yeah, you need to pre-nup. That's all. That's all.”

Very simple. Don't get everybody has a trust because we don't trust. No, that's not good. No, I don't. He doesn't need a trust just because he's an anesthesiologist. And he's not even a real one. He's just a CR in that. I'm kidding. But, who does it this? Well, I mean, I got 100,000 more paid cut while I was talking to him. Yeah. But yeah. So in many ways that that pre-nup just builds a wall around that money. And we know it's there. Great. And we're going to move forward.

If, if she's presenting this as, I'm going to have this money that I can spend, however, I want, whenever I want to. No. He has a right to feel like, hey, there's an equity here. Like, I feel like you're building the secret life over here. And then you come home to this life that

“we're building. Any money you take across the wall to use for personal use is hours. That's right,”

this hours. Yeah. With the exception of, if you bought something like a piece of real estate, like a like a like a, if you bought a lake house in the name of the trust, pay cash for it. And then we enjoy the lake house together. That could still stay in the name of the trust. But if you're going to pull money out of this to buy a car, we're not putting the car in the name of the trust. We're just going to buy a car. Right. And that this part of the marital property at that point.

But I just keep this real clean and simple. Tell me, tell me this is very clean.

So if she looked, my wife got $5 million and we signed a pre-nup to protect that money.

And we started talking about, hey, you'll be awesome if we had a lake house. And she said,

“well, let's pull from this thing. I would want that lake house in our name. Why would we keep”

that lake house in that trust? Because it was the trust money that bought it. Okay. And if you're going to say the trust is hers on bond divorce. Yeah. Then if you use some of the trust money for something, it's gone. Okay. So that's not in the trust name. It's gone. Okay. She would lose that lake house in the trust in the divorce. Yeah. If you pulled it out and put it in both names or at least half of it. You know, that kind of thing. So again, that's probably not the

issue. Right. The issue is the, and two, sometimes we're dealing with people that are in later light, later stages and it's the second marriage. They got three kids each and maybe a couple

grandkids. I talked to a 60-something year old there the day. And they both had a couple million bucks.

Not, not big, not 20 million, but a couple million. And I'm like, okay, just you guys, if, you know, you can leave the marriage with what you came in with. And then you could just say, all the growth is going to be combined. Sure. But they're both coming in with similar piles of money. And what I would be careful in that case is I don't want one of your second cousins, suing for my money from my kids if I die. Exactly. This one, I can feel, we'll be a little bit

messier, but he's going to have to exhale through the ego that he's not trying to compete with her. It's not catch up. I've got to get my now because you got yours. I got to catch up as a bad phrase. We are building this thing together. And we have this awesome stack over here. Yeah, what if Sharon thought she had to catch up? Yeah, after not earning an income. She doesn't want to kill you. That'd be the quickest way to catch up. Don't tell her.

That'd be the quickest way to send that whole out. She doesn't listen to this. She doesn't listen to this. She doesn't listen to this. That'd be the quickest way for her to catch up. Yeah. Well, she has convinced accurately so that it is all half hers. And so I told her if she leaves, I'm going with her. It's that simple. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people

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“It'll put you right there. George is in Jacksonville, Florida. High George, how are you?”

Better than I deserve and things could always be worse. Not here yet. What's up?

Well, I've had a couple bad real estate deals back to back. It's put me in a bind on using business lines of credit and business credit cards. Not sure if I should just do bankruptcy to reset or if there's a way I can dig my way out of almost half a million dollars worth of debt. Okay. Wow. What am I? What do you do for a living? Well, I work on cars. I've got an automotive business and it's pretty taxing physically.

I've been trying to get more real estate going so I can get out of the car business.

“What do you make on your automotive repair business?”

Between my life and I, our W2 is about 105,000 year. Okay. Cool. All right.

And you got a half a million. You said real estate. So some of that mortgage is or what?

No. Business line to credit. So I had one bank gave me a large line of credit to do deals with. So I used that to buy the land and improve it. And then 0% interest credit cards, which many of them are about to be out of there 0% interest term. And the first deal, everything just went wrong. And then the second deal got held up because the first deal didn't close because everything went wrong. So just got crushed by holding costs. So do you still own the land?

I own one of the two. It's for sale. But the market here is taking a big dip. So it's dropped

“about $30,000 in value and still doesn't have a buyer. What does it worth?”

I'm before the market drop is worth. No, I'm worth it. What are you going to market for?

It's on the market right now for 115,000. How did you spend a half million dollars

getting 115,000 a piece of land? Well the first deal lost about $60,000 because of delays in market drop. And then using business lines to credit to support just getting by while trying to get that deal going. The automotive business fell behind. So that business has debt. I had another business that the manager scammed us. So that lost about $30,000 getting scammed on that one. So the still nowhere near a half a million dollars. Yeah. Well the you lost 60 on one. You got scammed for 30.

That's 90. Yep. And you had to take a $130,000 piece of property that I sent me paid for out of this half million right. Correct. So that gets me to 220. I'm still $300,000 off. I can't find it. Yep. Well, one of it's a car. That's my wife's car. It's about $58,000 for that. But that's obviously something that if we needed to, we could dump that and get another car. But I had to take a personal loan just because I had credit cards from before that had piled up. And then there's a high interest

line of credit that I had that went some bad. Yeah, that worked with all of that stuff. Where did you buy?

How did you lose $50,000 in the stock market? That advice bought on money to trade with and

yeah, day trading. It's gone. Correct. Of course you lost money. Okay. Yep. All right. Um, wow. So if you sold the land for 130, you sold your wife's car for 60, that's 190. And that leaves you $320 in debt. And there's nothing else left except your business and your home, right? Well, we don't even own the home because we rent where we live. Be on the land that the business is sitting on. Yeah, we rent there as well. Okay. Okay. All right. And then the balance, if we if we paid off

the land and sold it and we sold the car, the balance of the debt is credit cards and

personal loans, right? Credit cards of 78,000 on a personal loan and then business. They're like a bank. A personal loan at the bank, right? Correct. Okay. All right. Well, I think what can happen here is that you clear off what you can clear off by selling things and then you negotiate the rest of it into fault at pennies on the dollar. You probably could get out of this whole thing for, you know, after you sold off everything for another 100k out of pocket. Um, so you probably can make it out

“without bankrupting if you want to fight all the way through it. Um, however, I do want to establish”

that day trading sucks and you suck at it. Yep. And that buying real estate, you're not very good at it. Well, they were mobile homes. So that's I know what your take is on mobile homes. Very much

sure now that you're not good at it. Yeah. Well, these are the first two that had really gone wrong.

So everything else is going well and mobile homes were were hot items in the area and, you know, barely spent at any time on. So you're the guy they hit at the slot in the chain and you thought that made slot machines a good idea. Yeah. So one of the things I did when I went broke George was I had to sit down and go, what was broken inside of me that allowed me to make bad decisions because I want to come out of this at least with wisdom. If you're going to get the crap

kicked out of you, you ought to know why so you don't go in that bar again. I don't go in there again. I don't want to get kicked again. And then sound like you've learned that. No, you're still defending. Yeah, mobile homes were hot. Said no one ever. You know, I mean, really and day trading and just I just caught a bad no day trading 97% of the day traders lose money. That's all of them. And while you're saying it's fools gold while you're hemorrhaging money you go otherwise by a car for 60

“grand that you can't afford. Yeah. So you need to do a doing all topsy on the behaviors and the”

beliefs that got you here. So you don't repeat this and then claw your way through it. If you can if not you might be bankrupt. I don't know. In Florida, it is one of two states that you keep your home. You don't have one. Regardless of how much equity there is. I don't know what they'll do to your business in a chapter seven bankruptcy. If you file bankruptcy, I'm not sure how they'll what they'll do with a valuation on something like that. You might lose that in a bankruptcy. It's possible

or a bunch of your equipment or tools or whatever that they actually could liquidate that place on you. So you need to be very, very careful about thinking bankruptcy is just going to be an easy way to walk out of this. I don't think it's going to be easy. I think it'll be really, really messy. So I would avoid it. So I would sell the land. I would do a detailed autopsy on who I am and why I

“make the decisions I made so that I don't repeat it. That's what I had to do when I made all those”

mistakes. You do two George. And then I would see if I could start settling these other days and default for 25 cents on the dollar and scratch up the cash by fixing a whole lot of cars, car repair business, and work my way through this with me in.

your people, and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else? There's more of

“spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts”

to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the every dollar budget app because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress. Download the every dollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

Our scripture that a Galatians 5 on, it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm then and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Lou Holt said, "It is not the load that breaks you down. It's the way you carry it." Oh, that'll go. Wow. So John in the 70s, there was a book that came out and I was a teenager.

My dad was in the real estate business. He asked me to read it because he was always

having to read these motivational books. The 1870s, right? Yeah, absolutely. And there was a dinosaur in the backyard. But the book was called Conmaner St. written by a guy who was in jail. So apparently he was a conman. But he was trying to make the case that he was a saint. He had run a multi-level. I mean a pyramid scheme, not a multi-level scheme, an actual pyramid scheme. And he'll legal. That's why he was in jail. There's a difference between multi-level and pyramid. People use

them interchangeably, but they're not the same. And so he ran an actual con like a made-off type thing,

“Bernie made-off deal, and went to jail. In the book, about the only thing I remember out of it was”

this bizarre case. He was rationalizing all this, that he had stolen all this money from these people. But he'd made a few people, fortunes in the process. So that made it all okay. I in his mind. And but the thing that stuck with me, the reason I bring it all up is he said that you can con anyone. If they are one of two things, afraid or greedy, that it doesn't matter how smart they are, doesn't matter how dumb they are. If they're one of

those two things you can con them. And the more of one of those two things there are, the easier they are to con. And so when I go back and usually when I look at someone having a financial catastrophe, including me losing everything in my 20s, having an opportunity to start over in the real estate business, I had to go, okay, what was I? Why did I get, because get rich,

quick, is a con, right? Get rich easy, is a con. It's a house of cards always. So playing the

roulette wheel, sports gambling, losing weight, quick, is it however you're, however you're going to do it, quick, it's a con. It's a con. If it's a life change, a permanent process. Because all the data that we now have at Ramsey says that the people that build wealth do it gradually, slowly, and they're not doing it based on fear or greed. And so when you're trying to get rich, quick, with nothing down real estate, you know, somebody's guys on TikTok or whatever,

“or you're trying, and that's what I was doing. I got a bunch of real estate. I had a $4 million”

net worth. I was making $200,000 a year, but I was deeply in debt. That $4 million was a real estate,

million dollar net worth. And I was 26 years old starting from nothing. But it was still a house of

cards that I had built, and I was trying to do it quick, do it quick, do it quick, do it quick, do it quick, catch it while it's hot. Crypto. There's another one. Okay, I'm a rotation there. I'm ashamed to say this, but I had this thought during this big IPO, they just went out. Yeah, I thought, I wonder if I should, I wonder if I'm going to kick myself 20 years from now for not doing this. Yeah. And I actually had the thought, my son's out of town right now, and I thought, I might have to tell him, I didn't,

I didn't put money in on this, and I, it could have hit. And I thought, and again, I talked myself out of it, I was like, that's, that's foolish, right? But that even, even somebody does this for a living, I, I had the thought of, I'm, I'm scared. That's it. That's quick money. It's fair. I'm scared to meet that on this. Yeah, it's a promo. Yep. You're missing out, which is for your job. And great. And so, if you catch yourself saying, I've got this situation, I have to get away from,

is out there. Or I've got to get that. I've got to get it. You know, in Georgia's case, he's like,

okay, I don't, my body is not going to last working on these cars. And so I've got, I've got this desperation in my soul to get away from the automotive thing. And I've got to go. So I went and day tray went and did this went and did that. And he's just, he's just walk a mowing everywhere with that, this pops up, it pops it down. This pops up, it pops it down. And that's exactly what I did.

“And so he, I'm no better than him. It's the same, I'm the same guy as him. And that's why I can,”

you know, I've got a PhD into UNB. I've got experience from my own stupidity. So, but the point is folks, just the lesson that you take away from today's show with summarizing

is, okay, if you feel yourself getting greedy and everyone does, if you feel yourself getting

fearful and everyone does, you're getting ready to make a bad financial decision. Yeah. And, and slow your butt down. And underneath all that, one of the things we tell people, "Hey, don't ever borrow money." I can guarantee you that that, you know, Georgia, I was called or didn't take out this huge business loan, this huge personal loan with the intent of, I'm going to buy this over here, I'm going to do this. Oh, we need, we need a new car over here.

If you go take out a heloc, I'll just get a little bit extra disin case. And when you have it, it's so impossible to not spend it. And you end up making the problem so much bigger.

So if you guys know what, I don't, I don't mess with, I don't borrow money just as a rule,

unless I buy in a house, right? It keeps you from, it's a barrier, it's a break, it's a hurdle, it keeps you from making even a bigger mess than the one you already in. But the reason people have lost so much money on crypto is FOMO. Yeah. And that's a form of greed, a form of fear, fear of missing out, it's greed. It's like, "Oh, they're going to get theirs and I'm not going to get mine." Right. And instead of, instead, I got really, after I went broke, I got really comfortable

with being boring. Yeah. Slow and steady wins the race. Board wins. Tortoise beats the hair, every time. Every time I get desperate and fearful right after that, I get stupid. And I do some stupid. Every time I get greedy. And I think, "Oh, this is going to, this is going to be a hot knife through butter. This is going to go." And it's just like, 100% of those things bite me in the butt. And it's just like, and the things that we have made, everything that we've made on,

were death by 1000 cuts, incremental little tiny, little tiny, little tiny, little tiny, little tiny. And then when you add it all up, it's a lot. Right. But none of it was sexy or impressive. And everybody wants sexy and impressive. The greed side. Everybody wants the quick thing. I've got to get out of this. I'm desperate. And so as soon as you say that, you're set up. So all of you out there, that's the lesson you can take from Dave's stupidity and my story.

“And even from some of the stories that call in here, it is you have to be really, really careful”

to avoid fear and greed, or greed, driving your decisions around money. Because it very few times do you go slow in those situations? Both those things call you to go too fast. Both of those things call you to rationalize and look past all the warning signs, bridge out, bridge out, bridge out, bridge out. Not me. I can bow, do, jump that sucker, right? Bow and loop. Here we go with the, with the general Jackson. Didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't. That's it. But yeah, you think you're

the one. And now you just end up in the edge of the bridge and buck them. Stuck on there. I like a flounder wall. I'm sitting your thinking of the last 20 bad decisions I made. Every one of them came back to, I had talked myself into a fear of something. Yeah. Or it all, all media today is selling you, it's all coming down. So you got to do this or you got to do that or you got to do this. Right? And the more I consume with that, the more I'm, my eyes are open looking for things that are coming

to get me, which means I'm going to look for things to buy to all the signals. The people involved are bad people. But I'm going to keep going because it's probably going to be okay. Yeah, yeah. No, they're not. They're going to keep being bad people. So why am I continuing? Yeah, Proverbs 22. The wise sea danger and hide the fool sees danger and moves forward and suffers

“for it. And when I see those warning signs, I'm half the only way I look past them is when I'm”

greedy or I'm fearful. And I overlook the warning signs. I go, "Well, that guy, he didn't mean that." And yeah, he did. He's a freaking crook. And you're going to go in and deal with him anyway, because you just have to. No, you don't. Can I tell you what helps me in these moments, wise counsel? Yeah. Good group of friends. Yeah. That now I know I can pick up a phone and call and say,

That's called a good friend. It's a good friend. That's dumb, John, friend. Yeah, that's, uh,

“I've got a microphone. That was dumb, Dave. Dave, you have had some dumb ideas and this is at the top of”

the list. Yeah, I get those too. Ah, George will pray for you, my friend. Uh, it's a hard thing

you're going through. I put this hour of the Ramsey Show in the book, so we'll be back with you before

“you know it. And the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial”

piece, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.

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