Don't Let Debt Steal Your Future

Normal is broken, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloni, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloni show and Ramsey personality, he's my co-host today. Ginny is with us in Orlando, hi Ginny, what's up? Hello guys, I'm just kind of tired of this financial dynamic that I have with my spouse

for context. We've been together for 15 years, we're almost 40, and I'm the breadwinner. I make about 170,000 a year, and he makes 65, I'm more so now getting passionate about not caring debt, making smart choices and possibly buying a business, but I can't seem to change his mind about these balanced transfers and by now pay later programs.

I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate that dynamic with someone that views money so differently, and I typically am the one to rescue, and at what point do I stop rescuing

“from these what I consider to be very poor and long-term financial choices?”

Does he ever see at the table with you? He does, we talk about finances every single month, and I express kind of my displeasure

about these things, and it's always the same thing.

It's zero-person interest for 18 months, and by now pay, let me, let me, I didn't ask a good question, I was my bad. Do y'all have a co-created vision that y'all are both working towards? Or does every month he come to the table and get taken to the wood shed by the breadwinner? The boss.

You don't understand? Yes, I say we're working toward the same vision, and he has gotten a little bit better, but I can't get him to understand, even though it's zero-person interest, it's still money. He sees it as, "This is 18 months, it's a Scott Freedial, it'll be paid before then."

When we just view it so differently, I'm kind of now learning, if you can't pay a cash,

you can't afford it. Yeah, that's a great lesson. Thanks to you guys. Yeah, we just view it so differently, and it's just building up a lot of resentment, and I don't want to, like you said, breadwinner bring them to the table, give me the credit

cards, I'm going to cut them up, but also I'm not in alignment with opening more stuff just because of the bells and whistles that they're doing on the planet.

“The only way I've seen this be successful in Dave, you've got way more experience with”

this. You've seen this be successful, is you opening the hood to your heart and your spirit, and you telling him not, "Hey, when you do this, and you need to do this, and this was dumb, but you saying debt scares me. That makes me feel less safe.

That makes me feel like somebody else is controlling our lives, and I want you and me to be in control of our life." Now he's getting to the source, he's not getting lectured, you get the difference, yeah. I'm not okay, I'm not okay with either one of us, I'm not okay with either one of us, making a large money decision without the other one, or in perpendicular to the values

of the other one, and you keep doing that, and I'm not okay, this is not okay. But do you see how you think it's harmless and it's harming me, yeah, I'm not okay, this is scaring the crap out of me, I worry about our future because of this, because we're not aligned. And if you've made a bunch of expensive purchases, you go out and buy yourself a car,

like you lead with that, I've made purchases without even talking to you about it. I got excited about this thing, we're not even talking to you about it, now I'm going to own that, but I want us to start to do this together. And we've got to build a thing together because us being on different pages is harming our relationship, because it's terrifying me.

“Yeah, I think because of how much I make, like he doesn't see 10 or 15,000, that's a lot”

of money. I see, that's irrelevant. That's irrelevant to the feeling, yeah, it doesn't matter who makes more, it doesn't matter who makes what doesn't matter how much the income is versus the behavior, it's the behavior that's causing me to be terrified.

You introduce yourself to us as I'm Ginny, the breadwinner. Does he walk around getting told that a lot, I make more money, I make a lot of money? No, but I think it gives him that safety of, it's only 10,000, it's only 15,000, like it just seems like so little because I make so much, but to me every dollar I make, I want

This makes me feel the same way as if he brought home a half a pound of cocaine.

That's a lot of cocaine, and I'm not going to go this way. This is a violation of my values and it terrifies me. It's not a matter of the money, it's a matter of us doing things that are directly a spare point sticking in my arm every time you do this or every time I do something that does that to you, we're not going to do things that we're not aligned on.

So Sharon has, my wife has some things after 45 years, they she loves to do that I frankly do not understand. There are purchases we make that I have zero emotional investment in, but I can come alongside

“it because I get the point that it's important to her to do that thing and she gets the”

same thing with me, why do you need another gun, you know, well, because somebody made one. It does not emotionally, but she goes, okay, it's within my, my emotional tolerance to do something with money that I don't understand, but I know gives you joy, same thing with her buying

whatever x, y or z, or putting some money in savings a certain way makes her feel different

than it does me. Yeah, that kind of a thing, and so all we're doing is serving each other rather than ourselves. Yes, it's selfishness versus, you know, submit yourselves one to another, scripture says. And it's the, the other one that's hard. Yeah, you submitting to me is easy, me submitting to you, that one's hard.

Yes. And so I'm, I'm submitting it doesn't mean I do what you say, it means I care what you think so much that we're not going to do something that terrifies you. Yeah, and, and she wrote up a great point here that I see couples get sideways on, which is it really matters, she said, I want every dollar to be ROI and multiplying and growing.

And it sounds like she has a husband who wants to kind of just enjoy the life he's in. And that, it, money just becomes the proxy war where everyone wants to fight. The real issue is you're on a line on this core value. Yeah.

And what you, I don't want the audience to miss what you just said because it's important.

You make, we, we barely more than 175k a year.

“I think you sneeze at this morning, but like, you and Sharon still talk about purchases.”

We do not make large purchases or gifts without the other one being in a proof. Yeah. And, you know, and sometimes the approval is laughing, sure, you know, it's like, but there's an allege ahead of time and we don't get, it's like, oh, you know, let's, let's, let's sit on that a week and pray.

Okay. That's a fair answer, too. Yeah. Yeah, I don't, I don't understand why are you doing that and explain? Yeah, okay.

I still don't understand. All right, let's wait a minute. Yes, no or wait. These are three possible answers and all tight wads and nerds can't have every dollar behaving with no fun involved.

The other person's there to bring the fun. All right. So I think he's your fun person. So you, you seem for that. And a lot of people have to realize bills have to be paid every month, which is annoying.

Right. And we need the other side, too. Now, there's all that thing that the grocery store wants money for those groceries, who knew. [MUSIC PLAYING]

Statistic show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance. Or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John.

“Why don't people want to take care of their family?”

They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a good punch. And, oh, you're telling me, in front of decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too, they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not miss this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly it. This is the two options.

In turn, your dad gum family term life insurance can replace income theft, debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance.

makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years that the only people I'd trust go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Cody is in Chattanooga. Hi, Cody. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you doing today?

Better than I deserve, what's up? Great. Appreciate checking the call.

Hi, I am a first-time home owner.

I thought my house got six months ago. I got at on a 15-year doing bi-weekly payments. But I just got and going through the process of switching to an arm loan. So a seven-year adjusted rate mortgage.

I closed on it today. I've got three days to cancel it if I need to. And I feel kind of in my gut, like I might have been making a bad decision. And I wanted to chat with you about it.

OK.

“Um, what was the interest rate on your own mortgage?”

5.625. And the interest rate on the arm is-- It's going to be 499 for the next seven years. So five-- what? What was the-- one you got rid of was five what?

Is it 5.625? OK. So it's less than 1%.

And your loan balance is what?

It is when I got the house, it was 19-- So what's your loan balance today? I've managed to pay it down to 1.68 in the past six months. So 1% is $1,600 a year. It's the difference.

And it's not even that. So it's probably $1,400 a year. It's your difference. And what was your closing cost on this? My closing cost is going to be about $8,000.

So you're not even going to break even. That's what I'm looking at too. And my goal is to pay this off in the next. Doesn't matter. It's irrelevant on this.

It's just a simple refinance calculation. If you save $1,400 a month, and you pay $8,000 for that purpose, and the loan's going to be paid off in seven years, you're not even going to make your money back and intersaved that you paid out in closing costs.

Your break even aisle is sucks. Got it. So my cancelment right now is $1,800. It would drop down to $11,67. I need to cancel this.

Yes. Go. Yeah. When you see why, regardless of what your payment changes, it's the interest change that matters.

The only real savings is the interest savings,

“the difference in 5, 6, 2, and 4, 9, 9, which is what?”

Got it. 0.75, 3/4 of a point, right? 3/4 of a point is $1,680. So 3/4 of a point around 1,400 bucks. Got it.

Got it. And I had done my math wrong towards the front end of doing this, and closing. I got it. Yeah.

I started to figure that out. OK, so now I can pile on now. Are you OK? Please. Please.

Buckle up, which is really just to go back to the real reason a talk, that this thing, let's pretend that we had not found that mathematical problem. And instead, you just had signed up for an adjustable rate that had just one time in seven years.

If you don't pay it off in seven years, it's going to adjust dramatically. You know that, right? Yeah. Yes.

OK.

“And so if your plan doesn't work out, you've got a problem.”

Never put together a financial formula that you have--

and everything your plan has to work for it to work. It also-- it has to work when the plan doesn't work, too. Yeah. Because the stuff that we teach is the only stuff,

common sense, stuff, the biblically-based stuff, get out of debt, for instance, OK? That's the only plan that works when things are good, and the plan's work out, and when the plans don't work out. Yeah.

So you did a deal here that only works if it works. And those kinds are the ones that are coming on bikes in the butt later. And so you probably would be OK. Because if it adjusted to nine or 10% or something crazy

at the end of that seven years, it wouldn't be much of a balance, because you would have paid it way down. But you would not be able to refinance if you were unemployed at that precise moment, which I've gotten that call. I planned to pay off this balloon in five years,

and in the 48th month, 12 months before the balloon pops, I lost my job, and my wife got a cancer diagnosis. And so we're just now our house is being foreclosed on, but because you built a plan that only works when things work. And that's-- we wouldn't have a show if there was--

like, there'd be way fewer of them, and guys like us,

“if everyone's planned to work all the time.”

Yeah. And the one thing is, your plan's probably not going to work. Like, there are functional families we wouldn't need people with PhD in counseling. But it's exactly right.

Like, if people used to calculate-- in most families, put the fund in dysfunctional. So I mean, it's, you know, including mine. So there you go. All right, fun.

Victoria is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Victoria. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi. I am looking to see-- I am $300, $227, 600, and I'm--

I'm sorry, I didn't understand the number. That was a number, I didn't know. What was that number? $300, what? $300, $1000?

Yes, it did. OK, and how much of that is your home, ma'am? $250,000. OK, what is the other $45,000 in debt? My seat is, do it alone.

And then I have a car this 12,000, and then my air conditioner went out that is $200,000. Your air conditioner went out, and you borrowed to get another one. Yes, sir.

That's the $200,000. OK, all right. Your conditioner doesn't put you in debt. It's the buying the other one that goes in debt. So the--

Oh, yes, sir. And what do you make, ma'am? I make between $100, $250,000 a year. I didn't work any overtime, it would just be $100. If I do it overtime to--

Good for you. Good for you. OK, I'm caught up with you now, and your question's what? Like, would it be smart for me to open up a Roth IRA now, even though I'm still in debt, and I'm paying off my debt,

or should I wait till I get off my debt off the day first before I open up the Roth IRA? That is an excellent question.

“And the good news is your smart enough to know you need to be”

investing. That's very smart. Yes, sir. How old are you? I am 32 years old.

OK, so you're already looking out into the future. Good for you. Well done. So what we have found is, after studying this for many, many years, and helping millions of people get out of debt and build a wealth,

and that tens of thousands of them become millionaires, is the fastest way to become a millionaire, the fastest way to build substantial investments, is to first get out of debt,

because you're most powerful, wealth-building tool, as your income.

Now, I'm not talking about your house, but we want to get rid of the student loan and the car debt, and the air conditioner debt, as soon as we can. And the good news is, it's only 45,000, and if you work overtime, you can make 150 and live on 100

and be debt free in one year. You'll be 33 with no debt. That'd be pretty cool. But you got to buckle down more than you ever have. Yes, sir.

“'Cause you've been a little sloppy, that's how we got here.”

Yes. That doesn't make you bad, it just makes you normal. But normal sucks, we don't want to be normal. That's right. Okay, so let's buckle down, get on beans and rice, rice and beans,

get on a budget, get that every dollar app, download it off the web, for free, get your budget going, and let's knock these debts out, ASAP, and lay it out on paper where you're done in one year or last, okay? One year this year, I will.

Yeah, that's 45 from 150, leaves me 105 to live on not counten taxes. You can do that. Okay. Once you focus, 'cause you're a person that focuses, I can tell. But now that you're paying attention, now that you're awake,

game on, okay? You game on, okay. All right, and you can do this, and so then what's going to happen is, is that what you used to pay on car payments, and student loan payments?

When you start putting that into an investment, that amount alone will make you a millionaire before you retire. Yes, there's something to pay to 45 off, and then open the wood. Yes, ma'am, there you go.

We teach a process for getting out of debt and then building wealth, we call it the baby steps. And again, millions of people have done it. I'll send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, is my gift, and it shows you exactly how to work those baby steps.

And don't make up your own plan, Victoria, do the one we have that works. It's proven, it's proven. It's not because somehow we just dreamed it up, it's millions and millions of people have done that.

I sold 20 million of those books.

So we know this is moving the needle, and you're awake now, so game on. (upbeat music) , bang a home, is one of the biggest financial decisions

face the decision on opinions or what the market is doing that week.

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- So I'm really starting to... I mean, I was mildly amused with AI to start with, but I'm really starting to love it. Once I understood this one basic thing about AI, here's something you gotta understand.

So AI obviously generates an answer for you. You pose an answer for it.

“But the only thing you can answer from is the data”

that you give it access to. And so if you control the data inputs, you're controlling the outputs. So for instance, when Google has lost its stupid mind, and actually is when you ask Google a question,

it's searching Reddit as if Reddit is some source of truth on anything. 90% of what's in there is bull crap. So why you would search that for the answer of your question is beyond me.

So the AI database is completely screwed up, and so your answer screwed up. So but we understand this now, and our team has built the Ask Ramsey AI tool, and what's in it, what's the data that publishes in it?

Well, we put three years of the answers from this show in there. We put all the financial patron diversity in there, all the books we've written here, in there, we put all the articles that we've written in there.

So there's nothing in there except Ramsey, all the answers from anywhere we've given one of us has given, you know, Dr. Deloni, me, Rachel, whoever, and it drops in there. So when you hit the Ask Ramsey AI app,

it's gonna give you an answer. This sounds even as smart, like as you're gonna get here on the air. I mean, it's even got to some of the sarcasm in it. It's awesome.

I want to turn up the sarcasm a little bit more. They took all my jokes about George out, though, and that kind of, they really, he got his feelings hurt. Ask Ramsey about George joke. He drove home in his Tesla in a half,

except there was no huff, 'cause there's no huff coming up the back of his Tesla. See, there's a good George joke right there. All right, so here's some, we get questions,

“and we always go down, and because you need to check this app out,”

it's at RamseySolutions.com, it's free Ask Ramsey. If you can't get through on the air here, which nobody can, 'cause these lines are jammed all the time, you can just go over there and ask Ramsey.

So here's the number, and we always come in

and give you the number one question of the day of the week. So the number one question this week or what are the top pitfalls to avoid when budgeting? So I read an old Ziegler quote this week in this said, no one accidentally got to the top of Mount Everest.

I always say no one accidentally won the Super Bowl. Winning is an intentional act. And so if winning with money is an intentional act, what are the tactical things you do in budgeting is the main one? You tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

You give every dollar and assignment every month before the month begins. And that's how we even name the app, the budgeting app every dollar, okay? So top eight pitfalls to avoid when you're doing your budget,

make sure you give every dollar a job. Now this is not your checking account balance, this is your budget. And so there's no money left over.

“If it's left over, you need to have a category”

that's called left over money. So at least then it's got a name. But it should be going to miscellaneous or fun or debt reduction or to something, right? So no money left over.

Now money left over in a checking account is good. You need to leave a little slush in there. But your zero, your budget should go to zero every month.

The second one is then you guess at it.

You do a budget and you don't follow it. You just go, I kind of thought I had an answer. No, you gotta go, this is how much we have for groceries. And we're not buying more groceries in this. We run out of groceries after this day.

And so period, then the other one is we ignore the four walls. We don't take care of the important stuff first. The important stuff is groceries and utilities and housing and utilities. And transportation.

Letting more debt in or be refusing to sell something

and it's got a bunch of debt on it. It's got you stuck. And so you can't get the math to spin. And start to, you can't get any margin to start to make some process.

You need a miscellaneous category. Everyone needs a miscellaneous category. You need a his and her spending category. The small, but it's unaccounted for, it's just money you can blow money you can get rid of.

“You need to be budgeting and this is the biggest one.”

With your spouse. So the two of you sit down, even if it's for 15 minutes, even if it's for two hours with the kids in bed, we go over the budget, we both agree to the budget and then we freaking stick to the budget.

This is our contract. This is an agreement with each other. We pinky swear and spit shake. We're doing this. When you budget with your spouse,

you are agreeing on your fears, you're agreeing on your values, you're agreeing on your dreams. And when you agree on that much stuff, you're gonna have a level of unity

in your relationship. You have no other way. Another thing is if you make a mistake and have a bad month, people quit. Don't quit, get back on the horse.

Go ride it again. I have a buddy who talks about that nutrition space about, you're on a diet and you have one bad day and then you're just like, "Ah, I blew it." He said, "That's like walking outside

"in the morning heading to work "and you see you have a flat tire "and you pull up a knife and deflate all the other tires too." He's like, "Fix that tire and get on to work." And when he said it like that, I was like,

"Oh yeah, it's dumb." Okay, so I'd pizza. I'm gonna get back on in the morning. Yeah. Just kick back with it and show you messed up.

You're here when I'm alone, oh no. And here's the thing.

“You have to adjust for your regular expenses.”

When you first do your budget,

you suck at this, you've never done it before.

It's not going to be right. Your first 30 days, you're probably gonna have some emergency budget committee meetings and adjust and raise one category and lower some other ones by the same amount 'cause it's still got to equal zero.

And it takes about 90 days, about three budget cycles to quit fighting about it, to get on the same page about it and to actually get your numbers right. Because we think we're doing one thing with food and we're actually spending twice that.

We think we're doing one thing with whatever and we didn't realize, oh, we forgot at children's activities. We're like, "Well, then give me just help you. "Children have activities."

Or a doctor bill that seven months old just comes out of the blue and you gotta just show us up. And who knew? Yeah, I forgot about it, forgot I want that, that's all there. So these are the top pitfalls to avoid

when budgeting and straight out of the Ask Ramsi tool, almost like we said it because we did. Can I tell you something?

“This is a very personal private experiment”

I've been doing, any equals one. And I gotta tell you, you and I haven't hung out in a while and I'll just tell you right here on the air. My wife and I, March 1st, canceled Amazon Prime. And the second thing is I said, for the month of March

and the month of April, I'm just gonna use, I'm gonna go old school and just use cash. And at every transaction, every transaction. Wow, it's in fact today was the first thing I've spent with the card to give you a couple of April.

Well, I didn't, I was like, oh, I forgot cash, like I'm still practicing. It was my first, first one that I didn't keep up mind of the bargain I made to myself. I gotta tell you two things.

One, the ability to just click it and buy it. Versus, I'm gonna plan and go to the store has so insanely reduced the number of things I buy.

I'd never in a million years would have thought that.

The second thing is, I just thought like, oh, I need those socks, I need that thing or I need those light bulbs, whatever I'm gonna click, click, click, click and they just mail them to my house. When I have to get out and go to the store and plan,

I just buy less, like, we don't need that right now. Well, you forget it, or the socks, I got, yeah. The second thing is, you've taught this for years. As I'm just putting over cash, it is painful. Yep, it sticks in a way that just waving my phone

over the little BPDB thing. It is causing me to rethink all the stuff I buy. Well, gas cost. In a very visceral way, and it's just, it's a reminder at how the credit card companies

the tech companies in an effort to make everything comfortable and quote unquote reduce friction have taken away our internal metric system for this hurts. Do you really need this? Do you want this?

And man, I do this, I'm with you on this show. And I've been shocked at how my spending habits, frictionless habits have taken over. Well, and your psychology brain is probably in overdue. You're melting down analyzing all this.

versus what I'm doing.

“And man, that bridge is, I need a lot less stuff.”

And man, using cash.

That's not the other thing is,

you cannot replace the weird luck to get when you pay cash for things. I did have one exchange where I was in there, like I thought they were looking around at me, like I was handing them a snake.

And I said, hey, that's all I got. So if you don't take money, I'm gonna have to, and they're like, no, no, you can do it. We just gotta, I don't know how to open the drawer and then let me do the whole thing.

I felt like I wrote up to a store on a horse, you did. (laughing) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) You've worked too hard to get control of your money,

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to get 20% off through annual plans and take back control. That's joindeleteme.com/ramsy. (upbeat music) Zach is in North Carolina, High Zach, how are you? - Hey, I do wonderful appreciate your call, big fan.

- Sure. - How can we help? - Yeah, good answer, better do, I was hoping you could help resolve a disagreement between me and my life. - Yes, I love these.

- We're probably gonna be right. (laughing) - Sure, you're all right. She would like to move back to where we're from, where more family and friends

for that we've got an 18 month old little girl and she'd like some more help. - And where's that? - Where's Charlotte? - Charlotte. - And you're in Wilmington.

- How far is Wilmington from Charlotte? - About three, three and a half, not bad. - Okay. - All right. - Versus, I'm built a, let's say fairly successful,

real estate career over the past decade here. And just trying to resolve that is, you can try to figure it out because starting over in a different market is terrifying. And just starting to sound feasible to me

and trying to find a humidity, maybe a middle ground or just walk through it, if you will. - What a middle ground look like. - That's a great question. - I don't hear a middle ground here,

so I'd love to hear if you've got one. (laughing) - Well, I guess I'm looking for a light. - How old are you guys? - And you've got 33.

- Yeah. - 33. - And you've been in this market for 10 years. - Yes, 13. - You women, has she been there 10 years?

- Six. - We've been here. - How long have you all been married? - Six? - We're both from... - Yes, yes, sir.

- Okay, all right. So the baby is the thing that caused the change 'cause there was probably no big deal before that. - Well, Mike, I would bet the opposite. I've just been brewing for a while.

We don't have any friends. I'm kind of all alone where you're at running deals.

“And then the baby just broke it all to the surface?”

- Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail, man. - Okay, all right. 'Cause that's still like, there is the draw. I wanna be around family. I want all my, all of the family's chicken's,

you know, in the same room's like that's common. I totally get that. But just listen to you talk about your career. Like, that makes me think she is rapidly feeling like, she is living a life that she doesn't like living.

She doesn't, you all have created a life that's mostly about you, and she doesn't like what y'all have created together. - Yes, we've got, we got my folks here, but that's not enough, and she didn't have the bill

as that she needs. - Okay. - Just having a hard time with that. - Okay.

it's comfortable, you know how it all works,

and the thought of starting over again at 33, which by the way, you're not gonna be starting over, but it feels that way, and I get that. Is that what makes you nervous, or do you also not wanna live there?

You don't wanna be around her family, you don't wanna be around her old friends? Is that part of it, too? Or not really? - Well, a little bit of a combo.

Not that I don't wanna be around them, but I just, I don't know, it's just been taken so long to get where we're at now, and just start to go, which is extremely overwhelming. - Yeah, I would ace it down with a good marriage counselor

and keep talking about this for a while. - To keep yourselves from getting entrenched. And then I would probably throw out the challenge of two things, and this is just, oh God talk, and then I'll let the real psychologist over here

answer the question. But, number one, going back, you can't ever go back home. I drove through my neighborhood that I grew up in the other day, it's not that I grew up in, yeah. It just is the neighborhood I grew up in,

“but it's not that I grew up in, you know what I'm saying?”

Things have changed, and her old friends have changed. And the comfort she thinks she's gonna get from being near her mother is not as much as she thinks it is. And so she's painted this romantic picture of how, she's gonna step back into all of this connection

that she used to have, and none of those people are the same, and most of them aren't still there, and some of them you don't even wanna be connected to. And so it's a false picture to a large degree. This romance of, this is gonna be, you know,

it's all unicorns and skittles over there is bull crap, okay? That's my opinion, you just can't go back. And so, I mean, I visit my old whatever, school, church, whatever, it's just, I walk in there and I'm going, well, we're doing here back then.

It will, and it's a common, a common refrain that you'll be saying with people is wherever you go, y'all are gonna go with you, exactly. And so, if y'all have built a life where she thinks she worked too much, she feels alone inside her own house,

she'll sit by each other on the couch, and you're scrolling on your phone, checking deals, and she's trying to connect with you, but she's on her phone, that same dynamic's gonna end up there.

The second thing I would propose is with the help

of a therapist that's keeping you guys nimble and flexible and talking, and understanding each other's needs as you're going into this, is I would go on a hardcore, six-month experiment to build community. Plug into a church and invite people to your house,

invite neighbors to your house, invite church people to your house, invite workpeople to your house, have dinners, develop some friendships. You're not friends with anybody because you've not been friends too, anybody.

And no one initiates in this stupid digital culture anymore. And if you all would initiate, you're probably gonna have more friends in six months than you would ever have in any other location,

“but you need to work at the friendship and community building thing”

because you've spent zero calories on it so far, both of you. John? - Great. - Yeah, and the layer underneath that one is, I think there's some real power in sitting across the table

from your wife and saying, "If this is true, don't say it if it's not true." But over the last six years, the market's been up and down. Six years ago, you were living high, right? And in the last four years, it's been,

you've been grinding it. I've put this ahead of you. And I wanna build, essentially, I wanna build a new marriage. What does it look like for me to walk in the door

and put my phone down and be present with you? The deal will wait. What does it look, how can I love you better? And by the way, I don't wanna make this all one-sided. There's stuff about her that you miss.

And you're able to say, here's what I,

here's ways you can love me right now. But I want you to go first, use the word I. I haven't shown up, I have made my life about business. I've been really proud about this. And you've been telling me for two years, three years, four years.

I'm lonely, can we go hang out? We put your phone down, and I haven't done those things. That changes today. - Yeah, have you protected her from your mother? - Yes, I have.

“I think a lot of it has to do with the wearing it.”

We're in a secondary vacation, primarily home market. We're not in wombs. And I was of course, city and Kizha, her sister, and her kids there who the same age is our daughter. And her best wearing 20 years of there.

And just part of my friends here, then it is, is there. And I think that has a lot to do with it. Plus, lack of sleep and blah, blah, blah, just.

But I really would explore some new attempts at building the life there before I left there. And then if you can't, and you decide based on that, the only place we can build the life we've both want is I will make the sacrifice to rebuild my market

in another place.

- And here's what that's gonna cost.

It's gonna be a, we're gonna have a cut in income, like we're gonna plan for this when I just gonna be emotional and reactive about it. We're gonna plan for it. So it's not gonna be tomorrow. But Dave, I always want to tell,

especially young hustlers like this guy that's just out there grinding,

“the proof of your future success is off in your, like past.”

You're showing yourself you can get in there and grind and build it. You can't. And so to say, I won't be able to, it's not gonna, I don't think that's true.

- Terrifying. - And it doesn't feel like he needs, he doesn't feel like he has to. - Yeah. - If she just had friends.

- Or her sister, or her cousins, or her nieces, and all that kind of stuff. - Yeah. - But I love the idea of y'all to sitting on the same side of the table

and putting the problem on the other side of the table and making sure, like Dave said, y'all don't come to see him at the part, come apart at the seams, at each other. It's you versus me.

One of us is gonna win this. It is how do we build the life we want

“and that includes, how do we want this house to feel?”

Where's this gonna be? What's it gonna look like financially? Who do we want running around our house? - So we did, we did this, John. - Okay, 45 years ago. - What's that?

- When I got married. My wife came three hours from her family. - Huh. - Yeah. - Moving into a city where she knew no one.

We did this. - Yeah. - We exactly did. - And we did exactly what I said, just then. It's exactly what we did.

And she's never one time said she wanted to go back home.

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and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, you're host, John Deloni. Dr. John Deloni, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host. Today, Ruth is in Nashville.

Hi, Ruth, what's up? - Hi, so I'm calling because my husband and I built a multi-generational house with his parents. Now only lesson about a year and a half later, my mother-in-law has moved out

and will soon stop helping with a mortgage payment. So we will either have to sell the house with very little equity in it or we will lose the house. She says she wants a part of the sale of the house. But how can I move forward without feeling

“as much hurt or animosity towards my mother-in-law?”

- Could I venture a guess that before any of this was done or signed up for you at a bad failing about it? - Yes. - So you're really mad at yourself? - There's a good part of it that I am mad at myself.

- Yeah. - Yeah, what happened? - So my husband and I came up to my in-laws with the idea to build a multi-generational house back in probably late 23 early 2024.

His dad had had a stroke back in 2008 and was in poor health. So we were talking and we talked about how important it was for him to be with his dad when the time came, one time came.

And so we bought up this idea with them and we were very clear we had a budget of $1,500

So whatever we've chosen has to fall within that. It ended up like with building, ballooning a bit and we ended up with $3,600 payment, rounding up. And so they said that they would cover,

whatever we could not cover with the 1500. We moved in in September of 24 and by last June, so 25 my father-in-law passed away. And it was there as painful as it was to be there.

It was also, I would never take that to my back.

- It was kind of what you signed up for. - Yeah, that's good, that part's good, you know. - Exactly. - So did you put equity into the house? - We were hoping to put about 100.

It's maybe a little over 100,000 into the house. - And you weren't bringing enough for you to get your 100 out? - We may just get our 100. So we put in the 100, his parents put in the 100

but it was like a 660,000-largest house. - So would there be enough to get her 100 and your 100 out? Probably not both of our 100. She has, yeah, we're hoping to get close,

but she has since started dating. A guy in mid July and moved in with him in August. And she was, she first, that she would cover the normal part of the mortgage. She wasn't taking that away from the picture.

And then January, she said, no, I have to go 50, 50, which I was a little annoyed, but I mean, I dealt with it 'cause it was fair. And then just last month, she said, no, I'm not paying half, I will only be paying,

I will only be paying 1,500 and I will not be contributing to the house.

“- So, I assume there's no written agreement, right?”

- No, just her text message is saying, this is why that's happening.

- So the reality is the house is gone.

- Yeah. - So sell it immediately. - Perfect. - And deduct what she promised to pay everything above 1,500 originally.

And whatever she doesn't keep her promise on, deduct that from her half of the proceeds. - Okay. - To make the deal fair, to make her, she's going to honor her work.

I'm just taking it out of her hide. And, but there's so much to be disappointed in with this lady, but none of it is your fault and none of it is anything you can do about. But, and really, I would be so disappointed

with her in all things except the house. There's just so much that she's wrong about what everything is just sad. So, and then, and here, let's walk away. Let's walk back, then the house is gone.

You have roughly your hundred in your hand, and you go start the next chapter of your life. And then the way I would quantify that, and I may be over compartmentalizing so that my psychologist over here may correct me.

But, the way I would do that is I say, okay, whatever money I lost, whatever tears I have shed over the stupidity of this deal, was worth it for that precious six or eight months and to be there when pop passed.

- Yeah. - And that was the cost of that.

“That's what it cost me for to have that.”

I traded this for that, and then leave it there, and walk away emotionally, put it in the rear view mirror. And then, you've got her to deal with and her misbehavior, which is just a separate issue, but I, you know, she's just out of control

and is grieving in a weird way and dysfunctional way. - Well, she's met somebody, and he's whispered in her ear, 'cause he wants that money in his pocket, not nose. - Yeah. - Okay, Ruth, can I use your situation,

your original question, as like a miniature teaching moment here? - Sure.

- 'Cause you asked a really powerful question,

and I think this question is drowning us as a culture. How can I do these hard things that I gotta do that we're not we agreed upon? And not feel sad, resentful, all these other feelings. - Sure.

- All feelings are, they're digital billboards as you're driving down the highway of life. They're giving you information. And if you think of them that way,

“they are powerful, and they're important data,”

but their job is not to tell you the truth. It's to keep you safe on this road, you're driving on called life. And if you were driving down I-65, we're all here in Nashville.

If you're driving down this main artery highway, that goes through our town or city, and you said, "I wanna avoid all signage," right?

You would never get where you're actually wanna go.

And so what I wanna tell you is, and everybody listening, and this is the pot talking to the kettle, I'm a big emotional, big feeling guy, too. Is I want us to all collectively stop

“trying to build lives where we try to work around feelings?”

Let's go right through the stinkin' middle of 'em. - Yeah, if you're goin' through, hey, I'll keep driving. - Right. - Yeah. - So I'm gonna feel, I'm gonna feel sad.

I'm gonna feel frustrated. I'm gonna feel XYZ. This is what maturity is. This is what emotional regulation is. If you wanna be a nerd, it is.

Can I feel this thing and then do the next right thing after that feeling? And it does it mean that your feelings are wrong, but I don't judge feelings anymore.

Have all the ones you want.

What I'm gonna look at is, what's the thing I did next after that feeling? It's so be heartbroken, be sad, be pissed off, be all those things. - It's still sell the house. - It's still sell the house.

- Yeah. - And still execute on the proper way to handle the money at the transaction, at the sale of the house. - Right. - And all of that.

“- Still choose to, I'm gonna drop a contract”

with this woman as we sell this house or whatever. - Still next time I have a bad feeling about a deal. - I'm gonna listen to it. - I'm gonna listen to my bad, when my dad used to say when the bell rings,

the bell's ringing for it. - Listen to the bell, it's ringing. - That's a great line. - Now listen to it, listen to it, listen to it, listen to that. - That doesn't mean it's right,

but I'm gonna at least listen to it and talk to it and win and doubt, don't. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey, what's up guys, it's Jade.

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(upbeat music) - Thomas is in Dallas, hi Thomas, how are you? - Good, how you doing Dave? - Better than I deserve, what's up?

- Hey, so I'm basically a sub-ground tractor working

for a company. I have to be doing a lot of driving, need a personal vehicle right now. My boss is lending me one of his. I currently have a broken down truck that needs an engine

and probably around a $5,000 fix. If I get that fixed, my boss will give me the equivalent of a 20 to 33% race across the board on my dog. The question is whether or not to take out a loan to do that

and then since right now, then come that I'm getting fixed pretty good. So I can literally-- - What are you doing? - Great.

- What's that? - What are you doing for a living? - I'm a clean, clean swimming pools. - Okay, all right. And so a 5,000 or 6,000 motor truck will get the job done

as long as it runs and gets you there, right? - Well, so I currently have a vehicle that is broken down and needs an engine. - No, you told me that. I don't want to fix it.

It's crap. I'd rather just buy one that's already running. - Okay.

“- So what can you sell that piece of crap for that salvage?”

1,000 bucks, 1,500? - Not quite sure I haven't priced that yet. - Yeah, okay. What kind of year model and what truck is that? That's sitting with no engine?

- That's 2001 or maybe a 2003 Ford F-150. - Okay, yeah. So you can buy that car with an engine running for 5 or 6 grand. Yeah.

Okay. And what are you making? How much do you make before he gives you this 20 or 30% raise? - Net is 33.5, gross is 30 after my 1099 taxes.

- 33.5, 33,500 dollars? - Yes. - Okay. - Yeah. - Yeah.

- Okay. And so a 20% raise is $7,000. That's down right? (buzzer ringing) Yeah, 20% of 33.

- Okay. - And so yeah, the,

- Okay.

- If you spend $7,000 to get a truck,

and he pays you 20%.

“How long have you been working for this guy?”

- Okay. Well, so he's the one that trained my dad. I've been working for my dad for ever, I'm 20, I'm 28, I've been working for my dad. I've been 15, I recently had life destruction events

and have been literally, have started working last week. Back in this job that I had like, what's a life destruction event? - I had mental health crisis during the mental health crisis. I thought I was finding there was family violence happening

between me and my wife. I got to a prison for that, even though in Texas, there's supposed to be provisions for preventing, for helping people with mental health, and not just put them in prison,

but that didn't happen with me. - How long were you, how long were you away? - Two years and a month. And then I got a violation and was back in for another five months.

So back out a week now. So. - Okay. - No. - Yeah, don't borrow money, please.

You do not need to borrow any money. You're coming off of a highly unstable situation and you haven't stabilized yet. At least we don't know that. We hope you have and you hope you have.

- Okay. - If you told me this was all three years ago, it might be a different discussion. It would be a discussion about borrowing money. It would be a different picture.

But instead we're three minutes into this, not three years into this.

“So you need to sustain a life with very little stress”

and adding debt to this is not the thing. So thank you boss for the new job. I'm sorry, I'm a minute out of prison and I don't need to be borrowing money right now. I'll have to drive your truck for a while longer

until I can save up and pay cash for something. How long do you can save up six grand? - That's kind of the issue.

All my money is basically kind of breaking even

in my every dollar zero budget. - Where's going? - One second, most of all. Biggest expense is $300 in gas and just spending about a hundred and five

and purchasing about a hundred and five gallons a month. Come on, though, please, cool. How much is your rent? - That's it, me and my wife are currently separated. She has a $500 rent, I have a $250 rent.

- You have to pay the $500 rent? - Yes. - Why? - Currently because we have two kids, she's basically stay at home, her family,

sometimes helps, but if I'm paying the stuff, she doesn't ask for the money and currently because of the family volunteers and no contact order. So I cannot coordinate anything with her.

So I'm kind of defaulting to doing everything, basically.

- Yeah, well, I'm gonna help you. You don't have to do everything.

“You need to make sure the kids have something to eat,”

but she also is gonna have to make a life without you. And so she and that means she has to develop a way to live sustainably without you feeding her. Okay, so, you know, right now we've got to get you up and stable, so you're 250 rent.

Even 500 going out for her, still not used up all your money. So you've just started, this is real fresh. Thomas, please don't go borrow money to buy a truck to work for a guy that you've been working for for 10 minutes,

even though you've known him a hundred years. This whole thing, everything in your life has been quick and sudden and fast and positive. And I want you to slow down and just be boring for a while. Let's know excitement, you've had enough excitement

to let you the rest of your life. Just be boring, Thomas. - Can I paint you a picture, brother? - All right. - The last two plus two and a half years.

Somebody told you when to get up, when to eat, when you could go outside, what you were gonna eat, right? - Yep. - When you borrow money, that bank tells you, I don't care how you feel.

You're going to work tomorrow 'cause I want my money, you already took my truck. Oh, you got you lost that job, I don't really care. You're doing this because, right? And so what I don't want you to do is walk out of prison

and then walk right back in voluntarily. And that's what borrowing money does. Stay free. - Yeah, that's good. That's good.

Stay free. Hang on, I'll send you a copy of the total money makeover and we'll help you as you rebuild your life. And just steady, steady and slow. - Christian, send him building an honest life too.

the ups and downs that are gonna be the next 5, 10, 15 years of his life. As he studies himself and builds a new version of himself from the inside out. We'll send him both of those.

- Yeah, very good. That's good, I like that. - Mike, send a Troy, hey, Mike, how are you?

“- Doing good, I think, I need a little bit of help.”

- Okay, how can we help? - So, I got my dream job in September of 2023 working for a friend's company. Everything was going swimmingly. Up till about November 2024,

where I had to leave his company and pick up work with a competitor. While I was working for him, I was working to get myself out of university that education that can get my feet underneath me.

He is independent as possible and save up money and everything else. Unfortunately, I had a lawsuit that I had to file against that employer. And it took everything in my mind.

- The old friend or the second one?

- Old friend. - Why, you only worked for him for a year? - Well, I was working for him on an offer about nine years kind of time. - No, but the dream was the dream lasted a whole year.

What was the lawsuit for? - He did not pay an invoice that I'd owe them for, but worked that I'd perform for him. - After you left? - Yes.

- Why did you do work for him after you left? If you got fired. - No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, before I was hired on bull pie. - How big was the invoice?

- $8,000. - Okay, I'm sorry, so how much were you making working for this guy? - $65,000 a year.

“- Okay, so have you been able to replace that income?”

- I was working for another company, a competitor of his, but they were only paying half of it. - Now, so I think what I'm going to concentrate on is not being angry at him and all this,

quote, dream job stuff that never was really a dream.

And instead, be working on the future. - They get a grief and get to get after something moving forward. - Yeah. - Go forward. - Forward.

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Don't be normal. Live like no one else. Start your every dollar app in the App Store or Google Play. Portland, Oregon, Leslie is calling. High, Leslie, how are you?

- Hi, good, how are you? - Better than I deserve, what's up? - Thank you for taking my call first off. So, my husband and I have three kids,

her first wife, and she's 16,

and we want to know our question is, should we help pay for her driving school? - Who's paying for her insurance? - Mom. - Okay, so you paying for driving school

goes mama discount? - Yes. - Was mom not paying for her? - So, that's kind of where we're at, and we also want some advice on how to navigate

that call for a patient. - How to navigate the X? - Yeah. - No, we're not that smart. I didn't have that class in grad school.

- Well, her mom did kind of the shady thing last week. She had the art author text. My husband said, can we talk? And then when we finally got to talk, she said that they were waiting on us

to start driving school. But we are going through our own, we just started that every dollar app. Like, we're trying to get that free. We pay her child support.

And like, I just don't have navigate this, because we've paid for her braces, and we were just go half on that.

She never once called and made a payment

to the dental office, even though we told her this was the office. - Let me jump in on this, Leslie, okay? Let me jump in. - Yes, yes.

I want you to imagine you're sitting at your kitchen table, and you have a shoe box on the table. - Yeah. - Inside that shoe box is the people in your life that get a vote.

- Okay. - Take her out of that box. Because you're still trying to like, she's doing these things. And you're spending a ton of energy

“trying to get inside her head and why did she do this?”

And I bet it's because of this. And then you're making up a bunch of stories about why she did or didn't it? And your stories are probably right, but they aren't affecting her one bit.

So you're drinking the protein. - I mean, the x, y. - Hope in the x, y is feeling pain. And you're the one getting sick. - Yeah.

- And so, let's just focus on you and the kids. - Your husband needs to do the same thing. My x, y, if there's not enough vote. She does not get a vote in our house. - Okay.

- Now, what your house, what you and your husband sit down and decide to do for his daughter that he loves, regardless if she's married to a woman who's a test pilot for a room factory. Okay, regardless of that.

All right, so, that's a given. Okay, that's a, that's a constant in the equation. So we just set that aside and we go, okay, there's the kid. What do we want to do for the kid?

In one case, she said I'm gonna do braces. She's supposed to pay half, but she probably won't,

'cause she never does, but we're gonna pay for it anyway.

And that's what you did. So just let that go. You made that decision. - Okay. - You made that decision.

You and your husband made that decision, yeah. - Any energy you give x-wife is energy you're taking away from from your home, from your marriage, from your relationship with your kids. Don't give her that.

- Yeah, it's done. So then as far as the driving school goes,

“you guys look at it and go, how much is it, by the way?”

- The 300 bucks. - It's a 1200 and yeah, we paid child score. We paid her 275. - Doesn't matter. - Doesn't matter.

- None of that matter, so that's all set. We don't have to rehash all the things we do. And we paid half of the braces and you didn't know that matters. All that matters is, do we want to do this? That's all that matters.

And we can decide that in context of all these other things. But the two of you just sit down, look at that, do we want to do this? You don't. That's your vote.

- Yeah, I don't. - It's your vote. And your husband, I don't know, what's he, you know, and there's no two. - Okay, then because the test pilot for a broom factories,

teaching or 16-year-old to be a travel agent for guilt trips, Daddy, I can't get a driver's license because you won't have. Both crap, you could get like a job and stuff kid, or you could talk to your mother, who could pay for it.

There's an idea. And so now, we're not able to do that right now. I'm sorry. But I would tell the kid, we have reasons for you. We don't think this school is necessary.

You're a great driver already. We've been driving with you for a year with your learners' permit.

“Or we think you need to have some skin in the game.”

Somebody else's paying your insurance. Somebody else's buying you a car. Somebody else's paying your gas. We think you should own this one. But have the reason be you and your husband

looked at this young, 16-year-old girl in front of you and said, we made this decision for you and here's why. - And by the way, if the x-wife was completely out of the picture and she lived in your house 100% of the time when it was your actual kid, it needs to be the same decision.

- That's it. - Okay. - Okay. - Otherwise, you're going to penalizing this kid trying to get back at x.

You're going to become the person that you're frustrated with right now. - Yeah, that's exactly right.

I think you and your husband sit down and say, do we want to do this?

“And if the answers know, then how can we help?”

We can coach you, we can share you on. But your mom's paying for the insurance and she's the one that's actually going to get the break on the insurance because if you'd go through driving school, you'd get less insurance for a 16-year-old.

So it cuts some insurance premium. And so it didn't go cut it by 12 on our bucks. - Good cut.

- Well, here's what's funny.

I'm sitting here in real time. 300 bucks is what I paid when I was 16. - Oh, what? - So that were dinosaurs in the world. - Oh, I exactly.

I know, I had to pull a rope to start the car. I drove around in. And I just realized my wife, when we paid, for my son, he turned 16 soon to go driving school. I, the number in my head, I was like, of course, yeah.

I thought of 300 bucks. I didn't know it was $200. I go with it as you said. Now you're going to look up and shoot with you. - I got to go see what I just paid for this thing.

- Yeah. - Sounds like it's being taught by a formula one driver, but that just may be what the cost of-- - That's the difference of 300 back then. And 400 now on the other side of the wall.

- The last did inflation. - Yeah, that's it. - Yeah, but the thing is, John, the teaching is everyone,

“you have to stop in the middle of these things and go.”

Instead of replaying these, all these scenes, over and over and over in your head, about the braces and everything else, and just go. And she, you know, we didn't hear from her, and then she texted us, and she got the kid to text us,

and all that really doesn't matter. No, that right matters. 'Cause the kid doesn't even get a vote. It's me and my wife, we decide. And when you decide that for our kids,

when they live in our house, you know? I mean, matter of fact, they don't live in our house now, and they still don't get a vote. - Yeah. - And the grandkids don't get a vote.

They get a wish. - Sure. - They can have a wish. - They can have an opinion. - That's a different than a vote.

- That's right. - Papa Dave, would you? - I might, but I have to think about it. - And I think a sign of great, like sturdy parenting is,

“there's seasons when your kids don't like you.”

That means you're doing it right.

If you're parenting so that your kids always like you,

you're gonna find yourself in some real dangerous territory and where is your kids gonna find themselves in some dangerous messes? Like part of parenting is saying, here's why we're doing this.

And it's okay, I'm strong enough to withhold your dislike from here right now. - It's part of it. - And in addition to that, if there are teenagers, your job is to also embarrass them.

- With all of your, yeah. - With all possible energy embarrass them. - Exactly. - Find some way to give them a ridiculous hug and a kiss at the in front of all their friends.

- On behalf of mental health practitioners across this great country, embarrass your kids a lot 'cause we need your future business. - Yeah, it's good. (laughing)

- Dave, I don't know what to do. My daughters in fourth grade, I can embarrass her by just smiling. My son is seemingly impervious to embarrassment. He has this, I wish I could bottle it up and sell it because I would be richer than these AI guys.

It's amazing, I make a joke and he's just like,

"I hope that felt good, Dad." - And I'm the one that was, he hit the ball back or the other night at the dinner table. I made a crass joke, but it was a good one. And you don't know shame until you're 15-year-old

looks at you without a smile and goes, "Dad, what are you gonna grow up?" I was like, "Oh man, well played son, well played." And he was right, too, that was the worst part of it. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Ramsay's show, "Question of the Day" is brought to you by Y-Refi, defaulted. Private student loans don't define you,

but dealing with them does. Y-Refi helps you refinance into a low-fix rate payment that you can afford, so you can take control of your money and get back to working the baby steps. Go to y-Refi.com/Ramsy, that's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com/Ramsy

might not be in all states. - All right, this is an awesome question, Dave. Today's question comes from Megan N. New Jersey. Megan writes, "I was recently in a car accident and my vehicle was totaled.

My emergency fund paid for my hospital bill and my parents lent me five grants so I could buy a reliable use car. Most of my remaining debts are smaller than their loan to me, but I hate owing the money."

They've said to pay them back, quote unquote, "Whenever I can, but I feel terrible whenever I talk to 'em." I have $25,000 left in student loans in another $5,000 bucks on credit cards. Would it be okay to just pay them first

and then resume my debt snowball? - I like that question 'cause I, in my guts,

but oh, my debt money feels worse than on the IRS. You know what I mean? He can't garnish my wages, but man, I get that feeling she has.

“- Yeah, I understand, that's an honorable person too.”

- No kid. - That's good. Yeah, so Megan, we list our debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything,

but the little one and attack the little one first.

So that would, you know, I'm guessing you said credit cards and $5,000, so I'm guessing there's lots of little ones or a few little ones that total up to $5,000. So you would knock those out first and then you would knock this out.

The good news is that $10,000 from now, you're done except for student loans. And so that's a really, really aggressive part-time job for just a few months. - Just to like, in channel that.

- Yeah, just channel all of that. - And that discomfort right at those credit cards. First, cut them up and then list them and get yourself on a super tight budget. Like, beans and rice rice and beans.

And, you know, and then add income. I look around, what can I sell? What can I sell?

“Now, here's another thing I will throw out”

that's not asked here, but it's a $5,000 car,

so the answer might be that she didn't have insurance on it. But I want to remind all of you that when you get a car accident and your car is totaled and you have insurance that pays the car, pays for the car, that is not a reason to upgrade, replace it,

and go further into debt, right? So I'm guessing though that maybe she did not have collision on a $5,000 car and so when it got total, there's just lost it, sure, lost the money. - And I wanna add something else that's not in here.

And this is coming from a parent who's my son's about to turn 16, there's a chance this is me, right? I hope not, but it can feel like you're helping bail out of your kid when you loan them five grand. I would much rather her parents give her five grand

than create this tension in there. If they feel like they want to help, they want to support their kid or whatever, I would much rather that be a gift. And obviously, who knows what happened here

and there's so many different things, but yeah. - So, but dad participates in making this an awkward relationship too. - Yeah, I'll just jump in on that side of this equation and say, from our perspective here

from almost 40 years of doing this, helping people with their money and clean up money messes that they have made, I'll make a bold statement.

Parents should never under any circumstances

loan their children's money. I second that, period.

“As a matter of fact, you should not loan any relatives' money”

under any circumstances. Period. If you have the money to help them and you want them to have the money, give it to them. If you're not willing to give it to them, shut up.

But I want to be paid back after I help you with your misfortune and I'm gonna feel good about me when you pay me back after I help you with your misfortune. That's best backwards people. So, no, you know, if you want to help them, help them.

If you don't want to help them, don't help them. But don't make them owe you money because Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master. And the borrower is slave to the lender.

- The interest payment on that is your relationship. - Oh, that's the interest. - Lee's not just in the belt at a minimum. - Yeah, wow. - James is in Lynchburg for Genia.

Hi, James, what's up? - Hey, you doing gentlemen. - Great, how can we help? - I have an interesting dynamic going on. So, we own a small rental home that we are close

to having paid off, and it's probably worth about 175 at the current market. We own about 15,000 left on our current home and land at the land that the current home that we live in is on is we owe 15,000 left on that.

And we cash were and self built the home itself. So, we don't earn anything on the house. So, 12, 15 months or so, we'll be done paying on both of these things. - Now, I put all the eggs in that basket

for the last 10 years. - How old are you? - All cash we had went into that. So, with the hope that in the plan that-- - How old are you at?

10 years? I am 44 on this. - Okay, all right. So, we wouldn't have to worry about paying for our home ever again because we've been doing that for a long enough.

- I wouldn't have done that over there. How can we help? - Yeah, no doubt. So, I have no appreciable retirement savings. Obviously, for putting all those eggs in that basket.

- Yeah, which is why I wouldn't have done it.

- Right, I understand.

“Obviously, that's some level of stressful for me.”

And, you know, here's you and enough,

there'll be, you know, wide open rental income that will come in associated with that. We'll have, you know, freedom from the mortgage and things like that. - What does the house rent for?

- Currently, it's out of 1,000. I have a, it's, it's value to more, but I have a, I have a widow in there and I can't charge her anymore than we currently are. So, okay.

So, you've got an asset that's not maximized. Okay, that's fair. - Yes, correct. Yep. - All right.

And, you know, I'm looking, I'm just driving around this in my wife and I've been kicking it around. Meet mostly, meet kicking it, most of me, most of me hurt on me, not to do it. Of showing it and investing that money

then into some form of retirement savings and I wanted some feedback on that instead. - Well, not counting the arrangement, which I endorse you helping a widow and endorse anyone helping a widow.

That's biblical. And you're making, you know, about 7% on your money 'cause 175,000, you're making 12,000 minus expenses. So, you're probably making probably 5% on your money on this rental house plus it's going up in value.

It's not a bad investment. And someday you will be able to get full rent out of it

when never she's gone, okay?

Or whenever that arrangement stops or whatever reason, what keeps you from beginning your retirement investing now fairly aggressively since you don't have any payments. - Well, I do have payments on the property

that we built on to account how much you owe on it. - About 15,000. - I know, but you're gonna be done

“in just a few months on both of them, you told me, right?”

- Yes, that's what I was calculating. - So, not talking about a few months from now you're 100% dead free. What's your household income? - About an 85 to 90.

- Okay. - So, start 7% 20% of your income and a good retirement or 25% of your income and a good retirement. You don't even have a stink in house payment.

And put, I fill up your 401k, fill up some Roth IRAs

and get with a good smart Vester Pro at Ramsey Solutions and that account will only be millions of dollars when you're 65, 25 years from now. - Okay. - And keep the houses.

- Okay. - You don't have to give up the house to have a retirement plan. You got plenty of time and you have a good income and you have no debt.

- But makes space, makes space in the middle of your chest for this feeling that's gonna come.

“I thought that if I had a house outright”

and I had a rental house outright, that then me and my wife could just do whatever we wanted with our money. - Nope. - And you have a debt to pay to future you.

- Of course. - And so you're still gonna have to watch your income. You're still gonna be putting his sizable chunk away. It's not gonna go to a house payment but it is gonna go to future you.

- Right. - And so expect to feel like, "Oh man, I thought we were gonna be free "of all this budgeting." No, we still gotta stay tied on it

because we're gonna get 85 or 90 years old one day. - Yeah. The same intensity you were using or maybe not quite as much to color up these two mortgages.

We're just gonna turn most of that cash flow and some of that intensity into a retirement planning system into 401k and Roth IRAs with your smart Vester Pro and promised you do,

that's gonna be millions of dollars. That's one thing alone. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Welcome back to the Ramsey Show

and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio Dr. John Deloni bestselling author Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Clay is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Clay, how are you?

- Hey Dave, good, how about you guys? - Better than I deserve, how can I help? - Yeah, so just kind of really overwhelmed. Don't really know how to attack my debt. I'm a majority of my income is going to rent in the car.

And I need both of those things. I need to place the living. I need a car to drive the work. So, yeah, just need help getting out of here. - Gotcha, what do you make?

I'm gonna make about 20 to 100 a month. - Okay, thank you for having the problem. - What do you do? - Yeah. - So I currently work in construction.

How old are you? 33, and how much do you owe in your car?

And how much is your rent?

- Did make, sorry, I did make a little bit more, but I'm portion of my wages are going to some tax debt and do didn't debt. - Yeah, okay. And, how much is your rent?

- We're 750. - Okay. - Currently, also dealing with a pest issue that's taking some of the more of the income. - A pest issue.

- Yeah, that's why you rent, brother. - Your landlord would be there to go the pest issue. - Says it's on me. - Yeah. - It's like, there's not an easy way to say this.

You gotta make a lot more money. - Okay.

“- What do you, what do you do on a construction site?”

- So I work in an office,

like a design office. - Yeah, we provide products. - But I mean, are you in some sort of apprenticeship that this is all gonna double in triple in quadruple in two years, four years,

or is this kind of it for you? - Yeah, this kind of it, before that, I worked in behavioral health. As like a tech, I'm just kind of right now to options there and look for another field

and construction was kind of up and some good opportunity there. - Well, but the opportunity construction is, are you a builder, are you a craftsman? Right.

But you're the guy servicing those guys, right? - Correct. - Yeah. - I get the projects in the door. - Yeah.

“So, I mean, there's several things we want on,”

but one of them is that you just have an income problem for sure. And there's two ways to fix that. One is the extra part-time job in the meantime, while you're developing a career track

where you go instead of making $30,000 a year, you go try to find a way to make 90. And that's very doable in today's world. And it may take you a few, it may take you a hot minute. You may have to go take some classes,

you may have to do, you don't have to get a four-year degree, but you may have to learn some things you don't know now. But you're gonna set your sights differently than just whatever the next J-O-B is because you're starving to death.

That's the thing, one. Thing two is, if you have a low income, it does not give you a pass on math. And how in the world, someone loaned you $20,000 on a car that wasn't smoking crack,

I don't know, you don't make enough to have a $20,000 car that dead. No, it wasn't getting about, yeah, you're dying. Yeah, yeah, how much could you give for that car if you sold it today?

So I did a quick estimate on Carvana and they offered nine of them. Yeah, but they do. Look up Kelly Bluebook with the private party sale value is. Yeah, and that's probably more like 16.

Yeah, and then dig up the difference and let's get the car sold. Yes, you need a car to get to work. No, you don't need a $20,000 car to get to work. You just need a, you need a beater, a hoopty that runs

and gets you over to work. 'Cause you're not driving to a $200,000 or your job. You're driving to a $25,000 or $30,000 or your job. And you're driving a $20,000 car over there. That doesn't fit in this picture.

It shouldn't even be in this picture. We shouldn't be having this discussion. There's no possible way. It's not good for you, it's bad for you. So I'm gonna move you out of that car

into a hoopty, get you out of debt and increase your income. And then I'm going to start learning about what my lease actually says about pest control. In most states, the landlord is in charge of pest control. Unless the tenant is such a freaking slob

that they caused rats to be in the place. In which case you may be in charge of it. So I don't know what we're dealing with.

But here's what I want you to reframe this.

“The way you describe your life is as though this is happening”

to you. And I want you to visualize yourself getting in the driver's seat of your own freaking life and hitting the gas and going forward that way. Your taxes didn't just non-paid themselves.

Captain of your own destiny. That's it. Your taxes didn't just not pay themselves. Your boss is paying you what you're accepting. You bought a car that I want you to own this thing.

because life just keeps happening to me over and over. Get in the driver's seat and say, what I want this thing to look like in a year or two years and let's head that way a thousand miles an hour, man? Yeah.

The people that get along in this world that we call successful are the ones that leave the cave kill something and drag it home. They don't sit in the cave and wait on a duck to fly and already cook.

“And that's what you're talking about is the Dr. Stephen Covey's book”

is a great one to read Clay. It's called the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

The number one habit of the seven, the first one,

is to be pro, highly effective people are proactive what John's talking about. They happen two things, things don't happen to them. That's the definition of proactive. And so, you know, when and out, you bust something,

not get busted. When and out, you know, we're going to hit something. Something went and out, we're going to be a man of action. Went and out, you know, and we're going to be slow enough that we're wise enough that we don't buy $20,000 in our car.

We make $25,000. We're going to be slow enough and wise enough that we pair taxes on time. We be slow enough and wise enough that we're reading the lease and are not leaving a dump in some guy's landlord's house

so that he has a pest problem because you brought it there. Or you didn't bring it there and he's being a twerp and we need to hold his feet to the fire. Hey, dude, yeah, the law actually says you fix this.

And here's what you're least that you gave me, says you fix this.

I own a bunch of rental houses. We do all the pest control. And I don't have any tenants that create pest problems. If I do, that tenant doesn't stay there because they're turning up my house is what that means.

No, thank you. So, you know, these are proactive things that I do.

“Show them that. I think that's going to say, again,”

I don't want to shoot Mount Horn here, but I was a dean of students at the law school in Texas. I drove a $3,500 truck and when I got my job here at Bellmont National, I drove a 17,000. I really upgraded, man, a 17,000.

You're making a lot more than--

All right, so it's like, listen, man, like,

drive what you can afford. Happen to your life. Yeah, I gotta do this. You don't, man, especially when it comes to appreciating asset. (upbeat music)

Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real, money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers,

“built on Ramsey principles we use on the show.”

Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

(upbeat music) Tax season is upon us to get free checklists and guides that will help you file. Free go to RamseySolutions.com/taxas. Shelly is in Washington, DC, huh?

Shelly, how are you? I'm doing good for you. Better than I deserve, what's up? All right, so I'm putting you to watching your show. And so I just really wanted to reach out

because Nina has been there in a big mess, financially, and we can't seem to get on the same page. I'll put her rundowns and numbers for you. To be bad, we have a student loan debt for my student loan debt, $32,000.

We have federal tax debt, $12,000. We have a mortgage, $1,000,000, $5. And then we have personal loans that total about $331,652. We have credit cards all together that total $15,000, $1,16.

And then we have business loans that are $199,382 in business credit cards that are about $65,156. So we have a big mess in it. - So you have a business that is failing? - Um, yes, the business has been struggling in the past.

- Yeah, you're not, you're not making money and you've been financing it with all these loans.

and not having money.

- You're not making a profit for whatever reason

and you've been financing it for how long? How long has it been since you made a profit? - Well, I mean, technically, I didn't make a profit. These last two years, but obviously I'm paying loans so the interest is obviously only part.

I can, that cash flow, I don't have any cash. - Yeah, but you've been using, I mean, you didn't use these credit cards, these business loans, these personal loans, these other credit cards, all to finance the purchase

of the business. You've been operating it at a loss and feeding it. - Yeah, so for my portion, yes, I've been feeding the business with the debt to you.

“- And all of this debt was created by this business?”

- No, no, my husband, he took, he had an idea to pull money, balance transfers, he also takes cards and it's personal loans to put it in the stock market to invest. So, the first year he made a lot of money.

He had a big text bill, the second year we had a lot

that we owed and he never repaid those loans

in credit card so he pulled me off of. So, says that is about 360 of this, which has brought him only line to credit and got a business loan and business credit cards. So, does anybody around their work?

- Yes. - Like for a job that make money? - My husband has a good future at... - What does he make? - About one, two and a year. - Yeah, and what was the profit on your business

that you paid taxes on last year? - $57,000. - Okay. - Do you all both agree that you'll have a mess? - Yes.

“- Do you all both agree that you wanted to go away?”

- Yes. - Okay. - It's just the method of, so my husband got a bonus there about $12,000. And so, to try to listen to you, I was like, well, we'd be this snowball,

pay these debt smaller debt costs to free up without $500 a month. He wants to pay on a personal loan, that's $40,000. And he wanted to put it towards that

to get the balance down. But, as you mentioned, we're arguing about it and then he called him and it went into collections. So now it's in collections 'cause he hasn't been paying it,

but he didn't have this money to pay it. - So, the money that he made on the stock trades, he put back into the stock market and lost it? - Yes. - So he was day trading.

- He never paid any of the,

like, no, he didn't pay the taxes, but also you said he made a profit that caused taxation. That's where taxes come from. - Yeah. - And then that profit,

he might not not, which many meant, not only made the money back, so he borrowed $60,000 credit card or whatever, and they put it in the market. He got the $60,000 back plus money,

didn't pay the taxes and put all of that back into the market and then lost it. - So the first year that he did that, which was then 2020, he did pay our tax bill. It was like 25,000, I think it was.

- Where's the money did he lose it? - Right. - He had the money and paid it in full of that year. - Now the money that he made in the stock market, where did it go?

“He put it back into the market and lost it, didn't he?”

- Yes. - Oh, okay, that's all I wanna know. You don't have any money is what I'm trying to establish. - Yes, that's correct. - None of the money that was made is there anymore. It's all gone.

Okay, do you own anything other than your home? - He is his car and he doesn't have a little money left. And then I have a vehicle that I don't have a little more money. - Okay, so your business doesn't have any assets. - Oh, it does, sorry, it does.

I have best computers, cables, laptop. - What's your grocery revenues on the business? - 330, very 25. - Okay, how many employees? - Right now, I'm down to one.

- What do you do, what's your trade, what's your skill? - I have a tax in the county, this is. - Couldn't you make more than 57 working for somebody else? - I actually did the end of 24. I got a job, full time job, making 1, 10,

and then I got laid off in August.

- Yeah.

“- Yeah, 'cause you need to income to build,”

we need to income to build, learn, lean into this, okay? And then back to your original question,

you're all arguing about what to pay off first and so forth.

Not counting your mortgage, you have a long road ahead of you. So the first thing we need to do is establish two principles before we begin to attack the debt. Principle number one is no more day trading. 97% of day traders over a three year period of time lose money.

So no more stupid schemes, okay? Second principle is, businesses that don't make a profit are a bad hobby. They're not a business. If it's not making a solid profit,

if you work your full to your new full time accounting job and you can run 57,000 others thing on your own as a side hustle in profit, and you know the difference in profit and grows, then keep it open.

But if you can't make a profit,

“you do not borrow anymore money to keep it open.”

You close it, okay? You fed this thing enough and he's fed his craziness enough. Can I throw a third principle in Dave? Third principle, Shelley, is for this to work, you're gonna need all the like synchronicity and momentum

that y'all too can muster together. And so y'all are gonna have to decide this is our debt. We both have done some done. We've been both done this and we're both gonna attack this stuff together.

You will never conquer this thing.

If he's responsible for paying off his and you try to pay off your exactly. Then pull the mortgage out of the equation, list all of these debts individually, smallest to largest and begin to pay them in that order,

after the $12,000 tax bill is paid. $12,000 tax bills the first thing and that should have been paid out of his bonus. If he's got that $40,000 bonus laying there, pay the IRS. Get that you do not want the IRS.

And you're in tax accounting. You know that if you don't want to the IRS money, it's not only expensive, but they have ridiculous power to screw up your life. List your debts, smallest to largest.

Now if he's making 120, you're making 110, you're making another 50, we're up in the $2,300,000 range now. We're living on nothing and we begin to attack this. Probably gonna take you four, five years,

clean up his mass. But it took you six or eight to make the mass. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Hey guys, George Camel here.

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“only care about your money and not what you actually need?”

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who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to RamseySolutions.com/insurance, RamseySolutions.com/insurance. (upbeat music) - Dave is in Pittsburgh.

Hey, Dave, how are you? - I'm doing good, thank you for taking a call. - Sure, how can we help? - So I'm a huge fan with you guys. I've been watching for five years.

I just wanna say you guys are doing an absolute miracle work. So the question is, right now, me, my wife, I think about relocating and that we are thinking about having a kid as well

within one year to a year and a half. So our planning definitely won a buy house and to build a good memories for future kids. So they have a good memory and kind of build good foundation with that.

So my question is, we either wanna do 15% of 15 years, fix mortgage with 30 years, fix mortgage or we think about paying cash. I know you answer probably it's gonna be around the 15 years, fix mortgage or paying cash.

However, the problem is we are afraid

we're not gonna have enough cash flow because that my wife is planning to not work

the only single income that we will have. - Okay, so you don't have the cash. - So right now, we have my salary 70K and she's doing 55K, we... - I mean, do you have the money in a pile

to pay cash for the house? That's not really an option, isn't it? - There is this. So right now, you're gonna be very happy to hear this. I graduate my grad school and I get paid off

all my steel loan debt with around 100K.

And then we both net around 1.2 million.

It's just investing in the mutual fund ETF bonds and stocks. - So you have a million dollars in mutual funds and bonds and stocks? - Yeah, that's approximately right. Yeah, depending on the value.

- Bro, deal with that next time. - Yeah, so, way to go. So, no, I would not borrow money when I have a million dollars in investment. So I would just take some of that

and buy me a house. - It's simple. - You know what I did? - Yeah, because you have a million dollars. - So, how expensive a home are you thinking about buying, sir? - So, we're looking at 350 to 180K.

- Perfect, so 350 leaves you 650 in investments. You have no house payment. There's no strain on your budget.

Your wife can stay home with the babies.

That's awesome. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Why would you not do that? - Yeah, help us out. - Why would you not automatically do that?

- I hit you on why this is a scary ideal. - Bro, I think I'm just running the two scenarios that usually the market we turn 10% however, you know, when you pay down a house, you're gonna guarantee we turn back

“3.5% on the real estate and also you have to avoid paying.”

- Yeah, but your wife has to work. - Right, and your plan is to not work once you have. - You missed the point. You just took out a house payment, put her in a job for your little investment scheme

that you think is real, but you left out the fact that you're taking on risk. And the piece that when your head hits the pillow, it goes to sleep. When you have no payments, you make different decisions

than when you have a house payment. So don't do that to your family. You have worked very hard and done a very good job saving money. Use that money to buy a house or don't buy a house.

They are rendered, but are you, what do you do on a home now? - So right now, we are renting. - Okay. - We're waiting for. - And what is your income, Dave?

- So I do 70k a year. - What does she make? - 55.

- How did you get a million too with that income?

- I think there was, I got lucky when someone the investment it also fortunate on fortunate because we got some inheritance. - How much inheritance did you get?

- She roughly got around 200 to 200 and kind of grew. And then I got around 300 to 400 and kind of grew in the boat kind of get around one male. - Okay, there it is. So whoever passed away and left you all this money,

bought you your first home and that's their blessing to you. And you pay cash for it. And that's what you're gonna do.

“If you're smart, there's no way you need to be playing around”

with all this stuff. Emily's in Denver, hi, Emily, how are you? - Good, how are you? - Better than I deserve, how can I help? - Yeah, so I've carried most of the financial responsibility

in my marriage, almost like, past six years. My husband says he wants the same financial goals but he feels the need to constantly spend, doesn't follow through and won't take accountability. He also has a history of addiction

and he recently backed up as of what I know. At least $6,500 credit card debt on things like 7/11 and use money I gave him for I money that I saved for a trip on his own personal spending and then added me as an authorized user to a credit card that I didn't agree to.

- Is he using again, Emily? - Is he what? - Is he using again? - I don't know. - You know, you know, what do you think?

- I think I think it's behavior doesn't line up but I can't prove anything.

“- If behavior is a language, what's he telling you?”

So it's huge. Yeah, he's bad. - He's bad. - He doesn't want me. - Well, he wants the addiction.

He's in the addiction. - Yeah. - Yeah, an addict can have no access to money. None. - Okay.

- And somebody in recovery knows that. Somebody who's back to use, and again, and you've been done this road with him before,

of reality and they make you feel like you're crazy, right? - Yeah. - Very much so. - Yeah, so here's the deal. You're gonna get, if I'm you, you sit down with him and say,

okay, we're gonna get you back into rehab, gonna get you back in some help and you're relinquishing all control of all money until you've been dry for two years.

“And you need to put a freeze on your credit report”

a second, you hang up this phone call

and that way nobody else can add you to any more debt. - How do I do that? - Freeze it, you go on the line, go on line and you freeze your credit report. It's a very easy to do.

And it will do it across all three of the credit report, like credit reporting bureaus. - Yeah. But this is hardcore, kiddo. The only chance he has is,

and the only chance your marriage has is for him to stop using, and the first step is a complete confrontation and he gets into a program. If he's not willing to get into a program, there's nothing you can do to save your marriage

or your money. You have to get away from him as fast as you can. Because a hundred percent of addicts burn down their world,

a hundred percent of them are broke.

Until they get some kind of money, until they get the other side of the addiction

“and get some sobriety, they all of them,”

regardless of what they're addicted to, whether it's sports betting, or whether it's pornography, or whether it's heroin, the hundred percent of them burn their world down. We work with them every day,

because we are there while their finances are burning. 'Cause you just light money on fire when you're addicted to something. Just burn it right there in the milk kitchen table. And this guy's doing it.

All the symptoms are there aren't they? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. And you know, I know you don't want it to be true.

We don't want it to be true either, but we also don't want it to be true thing to allow you to walk around like it's not happening. It's happening. - Yeah, drives me crazy 'cause I can't screw it.

- I don't have to prove it. - We've got all the signs in front of us. And by the way, if he's not using, let's go one step darker. Where's he doing with the money?

He absolutely doesn't care about your marriage, about how you feel your safety at all. 'Cause he's going crazy with his stuff. - That's right, you know what I'm saying? - Yeah.

- So if he's not using, then, man, he's got some other issue. You're some character. - Yes, you tellers. - Yeah. - And not even worse.

But are worse or as bad on a different way, maybe it's a better way. - You're gonna need to get yourself your own checking account and get on your online bills. I'm sure you already have this,

but you're paying the electricity and light, and like, you're gonna take ownership of this, for us.

“- Yeah, you have to take over everything.”

You have to take your name off. And his name off of everything. He cannot have access to money unless you end him cash. I hate this for a kid, not so he can butt-gasm his car with cash, which means he puts gas in the tank

and walks into the store and pays for it and walks back out to the car. Like we used to do. I did that recently, they took it. - I know, it's amazing.

- It was awesome. That little walk changes your, what you pay for gas. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey, good folks,

Dr. John Deloni here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what, Ramsey Solutions is hiring.

If you're ready to join an amazing team,

that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology sales, marketing, writing, copy editing and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at RamseySolutions.com/careers.

That's RamseySolutions.com/careers. (upbeat music) - I'll subscribe sure that a Matthew 626. Look at the birds of the air. They do not sew or reap or store away in barns.

And yet you're heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? - Earl Wilson said money in the bank is like toothpaste in the tube. Easy to take out, hard to put back.

I like that, pretty cute. Mary is in Minneapolis, I'm Mary, how are you?

- Sure, how can we help?

“- Well, I have a little bit of a dilemma.”

I became a widow four years ago, the age of 38. - Wow, man. - And my husband was a farmer. He was 51, and he left me with quite a bit of assets.

He left me with farmland, and of course our home,

and then a million dollar life insurance

policy on top of that. - Oh, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. That's the farmland. - Oh, there's debt against the farmland. - Oh, there's debt against the farmland. - So what does the last four years look like?

- I can continue to run the farm for three years. I had a farmhand that has been trusted. You worked with him for a very long time. And he took over the farm. I took over the business, and we ran it for three years.

“Successfully, we did very well, and then he bought the farm”

from me a year ago, 2025, January 2025. So I sold the farm, I didn't sell any of the farmland, but I sold the farm site and the equipment to him. - I'm sorry, what is the difference in a farmland in a farm site?

- Well, the farm site has the shop. There's a home on it, there's hog barns, and then it's just the home base for the farm. And then the farmland is what they grow the crops in. - So do you own the land still?

- I own the land, yes. - And you have the debt still? - And I still have some debt against the land, yes. - Okay, so where are we today and how can I help? - So I'm looking at trying to pay down some of this debt

with the life insurance proceeds.

I have about 1.1 million in cash.

It's in an investment portfolio, but I wanted to pay down some of the smaller debt, and I just was wondering if this is the right thing to do it this money. - What is a smaller debt?

- This smaller one. So there's a land, there's one land mortgage for 40,000. My home mortgage is 85,000, and then there's an SBA loan for 125,000. - Okay, so is there a business separate

from the actual farm operation? - No. - Okay, so the SBA loan is associated with the farm. - It is, yes. - Okay, now when you sold the other piece of ground

the other day to your farm hand, what did it sell for and where is that money? - It sold for 800,000, and that is a contract for deed with him, so that's where my monthly income from is that contract for deed.

- Okay, so he's paying you how much I'm on. - $72,000, or $72,00, sorry.

“- Okay, is he also leased in the land from you that he farms?”

- Yes, he's also leasing the land, and there's a 10 year lease on it, so he will be farm, it's 500 acres, he'll be farming it for the next 500 years. - And that brings in about 120,000 a year.

- But he also put himself in kind of a pickle, because if you sell this land or if in 10 years, you wanna do something else, he's bought this farm equipment, but he won't have anything to farm, right?

- Right, he farms around 2,000 acres, so he has some contracts with other farm land owners, so the balance on the farm land is now down to what? - The balance on the farm land looks easy,

so I have 1.1 million in one piece of land,

and then there's 383,000 in another piece, and then the smaller one is just 40,000. - I got you, okay, all right, okay, so I think I've got the picture, right? If I do, what I would do is to do what you're suggesting,

I'll take 250,000 of your million, and pay off the SBA in the 85 and the 40, right? - Okay. - And then you're 100% debt-free except for the two land mortgages. And you have an income of 7,200,

which you can easily live on, and 100% of the profits from the farm go to reduce debt at the farm land. - Yes, yes, so the profits coming from the land, the land rent is covering the payments for the... - No, not just the payments,

you're making more than that. - Right. - In a given crop year on the acreage, your portion, when he farms it on your behalf,

It was 300 grand, wasn't it? Our 150 grand. - Yes, 120, I agree. - 120, okay, and you have 300,000 on the small mortgage in a million on the other mortgage.

So in two years, the small mortgage has gone, 'cause you can put that whole 120 on it. - Oh, okay, okay. - And then we're going to do the same thing until we get rid of that whole million.

And so by the time his lease is up, his 10-year lease is up before it's up, this farm land's gonna be free and clear. - Yes. - And then you're sitting on a 15 or a $20 million

on that worth at that point. - Correct, okay. - But as the value of the land will have gone up, plus your investments will have gone up, 'cause you got 650 invested,

that you're not touching either, because you're living off the 7200 from the land contract on when you sold him the property. - Did I get that right? - You did, yes.

Got that sounds, that sounds about right.

“- Mary, can I throw an alternative reality to Edcha?”

- Yes. - I spent a big chunk of my life out in West Texas where there's cotton farmers and cattle farmers. The conversations I had with those, especially those older men,

the thing that I felt at the end of the day was given them their coronary challenges was the debt on their farms. It took one bad year to start a debt cycle

that they could really never ever get out of.

Is there any part of you that wants to sell this thing for $6 million and be done with it? - I'm gonna go have a different life. - There is not, no, I'm not opposed to selling maybe 100 of the acres down the road,

if I run into that issue, I don't think I will, but I don't want to sell the land. I want to hold onto it, it's family land, it's my husband's family land and some of it was passed down. He actually bought 200 of the acres right before he passed away

and that's where that 1.1 million came in. - I'm more nervous about this than you are, so I'll keep that to myself. But just watching those farmers, we're getting rid of all the little mosquito deaths,

right now, and then we've just got two big ones to knock and the smaller one of those will be gone in two more years. So pretty quickly we're down to, and the land goes up in value, so we got an 8 million, two years from now,

we're an 8 million dollar piece of ground with a $9,000 loan on it. - Yeah. - And that doesn't scare me as much because then we're willing to weigh at it,

willing to weigh at it and you love it and you're comfortable. And you've settled into this with a great rhythm. I'm very proud of you. - I mean, you really stepped into this kettle well done. - And what's your husband's name?

“Your ex, yeah, I mean, your husband who passed away?”

- Kevin. - Kevin, pretty awesome guy. - Oh my gosh, he was amazing. Yes, he was an amazing farmer, an amazing husband, a great dad. Yeah, he was completely different guy.

- I just always want to take a moment

in a honor somebody by saying their name, who passed away, but I also want to honor a husband who gave his wife the privilege of you got to grieve for as long as you wanted to. - Million dollar life insurance policy

and a business that was right shut up. - You got to be sad for a season, not worry about what your next meal is gonna come from and that's noble and honorable and good for Kevin, man. - Yeah, he's a good man, he took care of his wife

and she took care of business afterwards. Pretty incredible. The dynamic duo there. - Yeah. - Yeah, very cool.

Congratulations, Mary. We're proud of you. Very cool. Thanks for giving us the honor talking that through with you.

Pretty crazy.

So yeah, just always be looking for a way

where the end of the story is I got to zero debt because that always leads me to more wealth and more peace. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

“In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one”

way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)