Fix The Money Mess That’s Stressing You Out

The time to fix your budget is before you're in debt.

And the time to deal with stress is before it becomes a crisis. Talking to someone can help you find a path forward. Go to betterhelp.com/ramsy to get 10% off. Brought to you by the every dollar app, start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsy Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsy Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsy, personality, number one bestselling author co-host of the smart money happy art.

My daughter is my co-host today.

The phone number here is AAA, 825, 5225, the call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

“Liz is with us and Charlotte North Carolina, hey Liz, what's up?”

Hey, how are you? Better than I deserve, how can I help? I'm calling because about three years ago, I had discovered that my husband had amassed a pretty substantial amount of debt, just kind of a combination of bad decisions, bad luck over spending and I had kind of stupidly let him, you know, he was bringing in most of

the money I have my home take control.

So about three years ago, I started managing our finances and I've been able to kind of rain it in some and make some progress, but my job that the past two years have been pretty steady has slowed back down and so every for the last three months were about $27, $100 short a month. I know and I just I don't really know what to do because I've put our household expenses

to nothing I've gotten rid of, the only two things I could still get rid of are home security system, which is $25 a month and then else cleaning for my mental health, but other than

“that, I've gotten rid of extras so how much the debt is there?”

Right now, about $200,000, all consumer debtless, it's he took out a few bucks, there's some credit card debt to car payments. Oh, what do you owe your cars between the $2,048,000? Break 'em down to for me. His truck is about 18 and mine is like 33 years so and what do you make a year and what does

he make a year? He makes with his bonus about 160,000 a year. My job varies, I work on a as needed basis for a law firm so the past two to three years. I made about 90,000 but I'm probably checking this year what it had been like the previous five years, which is $45, because I-- Okay, so what you gave me does not equal $250,000 worth

“of expenses, worth as money going, what's your house payment?”

Our house payment is $1,900 and then we have a heloc, which is $470 a month. Yeah, but that's only $2,500, that's only $30,000 a year and you know $250,000 household income. Well, I guess I'm factoring in like all the like the debt, all the monthly payments we're making.

Yeah, I am too. I don't get to $2,700 upside down, your household income is $20,000 a month. No, it's well. No, it is. I mean, it's not your take home pay, but your household income is $20,000 a month.

$60 plus $90 is $250, that's $20,000 a month. What hits your account every month is, what do you actually have to work with after taxes? Right now, what we're working with is about $7,700 a month, because I haven't been working. Where's the other $13,000 a month going? That's-- She's not working, she's still pretty much-- No, she's not working.

She's not working. She's not at $90 anymore, she's at $60, but-- $45, and your husband's $160-- Yeah, but the-- so-- But even at $160,000 a month-- Are you putting $1,000 in cost? Yeah, are you putting money in a 401k still?

I don't.

Well, you manage the money now.

“So yeah, we are putting money in his 401k.”

OK, we, yes. OK. And what else is coming out of your checks? Other than taxes? Yes, insurance.

He has this debt where he-- this company caught beyond finance. So that 750 a month, if he's paying towards something that he had some debt consulting in company. And that comes out of his check? That comes directly out of his-- well, it comes-- it just auto-drafts out of our--

That's checking account. That's after 7,700 went in, and I'm still trying to find like $10,000 a month that's missing.

And so far, the only place I found it going is a 401k.

Well, I mean, his-- his take on pay is EGETS after taxes, like 3,400 every two weeks. And then he gets a big bonus in January, which we use this year to pay off a credit card. That's 7,000. And then you bring in 700 a month, as what you're saying. Because you said 7,700 hits your account every month.

I mean, that's when it's been the last like 3 to 4 months, because I haven't really been working. OK. OK, so can you pick up the same type of position somewhere else since this-- since they've slowed you down? I can't, because I've worked for a law firm, and I'm covered by their

liability insurance. So I can't do the same kind of work for anyone else, because of-- I mean, is there another law firm that I'll hire you and quit those guys? I mean, I've been looking. I haven't found anything yet.

Yeah, because you know, we're not going to stay at 45, and we have a market income. Our market value of 100. OK, so a couple of things backing up then.

“So number one, the two of you need to sit down together and work on the budget.”

You can do the details, but he needs to feel the weight of the responsibility of this with you, and be carrying it emotionally. You're carrying it by yourself, and it's crushing you. I can hear it in your voice, OK, and you're still harboring a large amount of resentment, which is fair.

You're still pissed off about a two-- him running $200,000 in the hole without bothering to tell anybody, OK? That's the thing, one, though. You're not-- you're only shot at your marriage getting through this is the two of you hooking arms, putting your both of you, putting your shoulders in the same end of the harness

together and pulling this wagon together. OK, now you can do the details, you're the detail person, and you definitely have to know what's going on, because we can't count on him, OK? So that's the thing, one. Thing two, then, once you're doing that, then I want you to go find where all this money

is going, because stop his 401(k) immediately. You don't go $2700 in the hole while funding a 401(k) that's not logical. That's borrowing money to put it in a 401(k). No, we're not doing that. So stop his 401(k) in the morning or tonight or whatever.

Stop yours. No saving money. No investing money. And I'll be selling the cars at this point. That's the next one.

Sell the cars. Mm-hmm. These cars have got to go. They're crazy in this situation, but you've got to go find where all this money is going. As when you add this up and look at the gross amount that you guys have been making, and

you're only getting $7,000 home, something's wrong. If you got a huge tax refund, something's wrong. There's a gaping hole in there. If his 160 is the bonus, which they use to pay off the credit cards, that's not in the paycheck.

They're about to either. You got to figure out where all this is going, because it's not--it doesn't add up to $250,000. And that's where we got to get to. Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank?

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debit card. Go to FairWins.org/Ramsie to learn more and make the switch today. That's FairWins.org/Ramsie. Ensured by the NCU-A. Jay is an Oklahoma City.

Hi, Jay. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. How are you all?

How's my health? Yes, I'm just calling, I am 27 years old. I still currently live with my parents. I am $35 to $45,000 in debt. That's with credit cards, we hit 2 vehicle loans and personal loans.

And I make roughly 32 to 3,500 a month. I work 2 jobs and I'm going to school.

I'm just very overwhelmed and I just feel like I'm finally financially behind in life.

Did you say you had 2 card debts? Yes. They is a 2021 holiday launcher and a 2018 Denali. The launcher I have about 11,000 left on it that Denali, I have 21,000 left on it. Are you married?

I am not. What do you have 2 cars? The 2021 Hyundai launcher is mine, the 2018 Denali is my father's. He is disabled, so he is on a fixed income and he had no vehicle. He had one, but that broke down on him and we both needed reliable cars.

“So that I believe looking back on it was too much of a burden to take on.”

Yeah, you need to sell it. You can't afford the Denali, it's one of your problems. What's the nature of your father's disability on? He has a nerve damage and he has severe arthritis in his hands, so what are some days, you said you are living with your parents, your mom is involved too?

Yes, she is the only one working. What does she mean? She makes 20 hours. Okay, and your dad has disability income coming in, I assume. Yes.

Was the SSI or was he military or? Yes, I, but I guess something came up, they said that my mom makes too much money so they're going to cut it off. No, there's not a thing where the spouse makes too much money if someone is permanently disabled. Your mom can make $800,000 a year in your dad still gets his disability SSI, so that somebody

is confused somewhere around the messaging. Okay, so here's the deal, your dad's income from disability and your mom's $20 an hour adds up together to determine what kind of car they pay cash for. And they manage their lives, they're like grown ups and stuff, and the Denali's gone. You are way too broke to be supporting other people.

That's why you're stuck. How does that hit you, Jay? It, it, it, it, it, it hit me, but I, I've seen it and I've looked at the numbers, I've known it for a while, and it's like, you know, a realization, and I'm just the main guy that said it all out loud.

Well, I, it, it just, you know, hurts because I want to help, like, I want you to be able to help, but you're not helping, you're hurting, because you've quote, you guys have woven together a situation that is not good for any of you. And that, that can happen.

“You can do the wrong thing out of a good heart, right?”

And you've got a green mark, you're trying to help your dad, I appreciate you doing that. That's good. That's a good man. Okay. Trying to help your mom and your living there, so you feel like you owe him, 'cause you do.

That's okay. I get all of that. That's fine.

But basically all the debt you're feeling is, are these two cars?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's basically all of it. All of the family payment, your life, all of the sudden it starts to work it again. Yeah.

And so yeah, and then we begin to work extra, like a crazy man, and clear up the credit card debt, clear up your, your little 11,000 dollar card debt, and you'd be dead free, and

right? No, no, not. Yeah. I mean, in your buying some food, maybe in the stuff for the house, and maybe paying a light bill or something, but you don't have much overhead.

So basically we're talking about, you know, $2,500 a month, which is $30,000 a year,

that you could be throwing a debt, and that means you're dead free in a year. Of course, we're getting rid of the Denali, too, but that's part of the equation. But yeah, once that's gone, and you do these things, and then mom and dad scratch together a little bit of money, and they go buy a 5, 6,000 dollar car. And that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with 5, 6,000 dollar car. You can get a lot of car for 5, 6,000, 6,000, it's not pretty, but it's reliable. And you're not trying to win any sex appeal jobs anyway. They aren't at their age, they don't need to pick up a date. They're fine.

So I mean, you know, it's so, and then you start working to get out on your own, and you can emotionally support them and coach them, and be there for them, and drop by some drop by dinner occasionally for them and that kind of stuff, and then you start your own life.

“And that's going to be the best thing ever happened to them, and to you.”

How will that conversation go with your parents, Jay? I think it will go very well. You did. Good.

Yes, I have a great relationship with my parents, and my dad has always told me that he wants

me to win. He wants me to do better than he did. So. Okay, good. Yeah.

That's wonderful. That's a very supportive environment. That payment a month. Which one? The Denali.

Denali is five o'clock. Yeah. Wow, really. Okay. I would have guessed them, but just the same.

So yeah, I don't think it's good for them to have that burden, and I know it's not good

for you. The car. The car was, oh, you had a valid need, and you purchased about four times as much

“car as you should have for five times as much car as you should have to cover your dad's”

need. And then that's when it exposed all this stuff, because when you put stress on that budget, all the little stupid things are really exposed then. You can kind of get away with those and forget about them, until you put stress on it. You know, and I can see how all, you know, it's $21,000, and all the, you know, versus

a brand new $90,000. All right. So he's probably thinking in his head as he's doing it. Oh, this is a good deal. Okay.

So I can, and then, but here's the problem, or these small, these purchases, small purchases that we make start when we justify them. You put them in the whole picture of your math, and a $500 car payment, making, what was it? $3,500 a month. Yeah.

Yeah. It starts to $40,000 a year for a $20,000 car. Eating, eating away. Yep. With another 11,000 car.

And another 11,000 car. And credit card debt. Yeah. So that's, that's what you got to do.

“I hang on, Jay, I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, that”

shows you exactly how to do the baby steps that we talk about here, and we're also going to sign you up for every dollar, for our budgeting app, and it'll hold your hand as you walk through this process. But beans and rice, rice and beans, and what will happen is, as you'll get a new level of energy when you have a clear path, and you can map out, I'm going to knock that

that off, and then I'm going to knock that that off, and then I'm going to knock that that off. And then by this date, I'm going to be completely free. And then I'm going to save my good three to six months down payment, and by somewhere in that, time line is when you decide you're going to move out on your own, and all of these

things come together. You get out on your own, and you're debt free, and you got $10,000 in the bank, you're a different, but you're a different guy. It puts you in a whole different world. And what's wild is all that can happen in 18 months.

Less. Well, being debt free and saving up $10,000, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, good point, yeah, and only 18 months, and think about where you were 18 months ago about right here. So nothing changes until something changes.

So hang on, we're going to send you a copy of the total money makeover and get you moving here, my man. Get you moving. So Rachel, I would say that in 30 years of doing this, that a high percentage, and I'll call it maybe even 90% of the people that are struggling with money issues have either struggling

with their spouse or they're struggling with some other family members with money. There's a relational component. Nine out of ten. There's a relational, a negative relational component to about nine out of ten people who are having money problems.

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“Kevin is in Charlotte, North Carolina, high Kevin, how are you?”

Better than I deserve, what's up? So my question is, I'm currently living with my girlfriend, and we want to start to look to buy our first house. We're currently renting, I make good money. She has a lot of money that she made throughout college and her dad is also going to give

us $35,000 for a down payment. We just kind of feel like right now we're wasting money renting, and I know you're totally against doing this before marriage, but it just kind of feels like the smartest option right now. How long have you been living together?

We've been living together for one year. Won't you get married? So, if it was up to me, I would have got married last year. She is going to be competing in the 2021 Olympics, so we want to make sure that she's ready to go for that and she's-

“How does marriage negatively affect competing in the Olympics?”

Just the whole wedding and planning for all that, she wants to stay focused on- So the wedding effects, but not marriage. Yeah. You're willing to buy a house, which is a big deal, but we're not willing to do a wedding for our competing training.

It's too stressful to do a wedding, but it's not too stressful to buy a house. It's inconsistent and illogical, but the wedding's going to be a fun big party that we could all enjoy together. Have you ever bought a house? No.

In an easy process, they're going to do a- Yeah, okay. So, Kevin, you guys are going to do what you're going to do, and I'm not sure why you called us because you knew exactly what we were going to tell you, and it is absolutely relationally, legally, financially stupid to buy a house or someone you're not married to.

Her father willing to give her Shacked Up Boyfriend $35,000 and have no protection on where that money's going to go is idiotic. It's dumb, okay, no way he should do that.

Because here's what could happen, okay, both your names are on the deeds, and you decide

I'm leaving because I don't like Olympians, and I'm going to go do something else with my life. Now she's got the whole thing, but he can't get his money or her money out of this thing, because they can't even find you. These are the calls we get on the show.

But that's never going to happen in your case. Yes, it is. Crazy people do crazy stuff all the time. It's why we have a show, and it's compelling radio, you know, it's compelling calls. So please don't do this.

So what would I tell you to do if I were your friend, and I am your friend, even though I'm fussing at you, because I don't want you to do this for your own sake. I don't want you to be one of those callers that has a horrible situation and you have to call me back and try to unweave some barrel of fish hook, she got yourself into. And so what I would do is I would call the preacher, and I'd go get married Saturday, and

I'd have a party after the Olympics. And then you're legally and relationally and financially on the same page committed to, then

gift of $35,000 to help you on the down payment, I'm in. Let's talk about whether you're out of debt, let's talk about whether you have your emergency phone in place, but conceptually then I would go ahead.

“But if you're unwilling to commit to marriage, you should not be buying a home together.”

These are permanent decisions that are not easily undone. So, yeah, period. And it's not, it's not, the data tells us that you're likely hood of having one fourth of the net worth that you have that your friends that are married have when you're 35, 35-year-old men that are married have four times the net worth of 35-year-old men that are shocked up.

That's the data.

That's where this is going because if there's always an excuse, there's always an excuse,

but we're going by house. Now, I think you're probably going by the house. I don't think you're going to listen to Dad Guam thinks he had, but I wish you would really consider, and I wish you'd play this back for her dad where I called him an idiot. Because this is just dumb, he's trying to do a nice thing for his daughter and he thinks

you're a good guy, and he's trying to be a good dude, and he hasn't thought through the unintensive consequences of this, which is this crap only works when everything goes right. If anything goes wrong, she's screwed in this scenario, and you don't, she don't want to be in that, and you don't want to love, you want to love her better than that.

So we're going to see the preacher's Saturday. Saturday, this Saturday, this Saturday, that's your uncle Dave Kongo.

“That's your uncle Dave, love and yeah, because I don't want to talk to you when you're”

30, and you've had this all this struggle in your life because you've got things out of order. Yeah. And it screws up everything, and the number of people we call that we get in here in your situation.

And you knew this before you called me, so you walked into the bear's den and said, "Hey, bear, will you eat?" And yes, we will. So we love you so much.

We're always going to tell you the truth and forcefully to try to get you to do it.

So I want you to win, honey, and man, obviously the girls are great girl, I'm a Olympic champion. Wow. And you get to compete in the Olympics. You've got some serious stuff going on.

That's neat. So this is a great find. You probably ought to make sure this gets wrapped up for she slips away. I was going to say her, she goes to the Olympics. She's a real man, a Olympic man, not that you aren't Kevin, but she said, she's the

one wasn't put it off. But she's tying it to the wedding and the rest are doing the wedding. Yeah. But by a homeless dress for selecting the homeless dress in your life, the quality of your relationships when you have commitment together, when you know it's going to happen in

the ways. And you start creating a life together, there starts to be balance, give and take. You know, all of it, there is, there's so much data coming out that it is. There is an advantage to it to being married. And you add the finances on top and doing something like purchasing a home together.

I mean, by the time you get to 50 years old folks, the numbers are staggering. You ladies, you have 14 times less net worth when you're 50 years old if you've checked up than a married friend of yours. About 10 times less money, that that's the reality, men is five times less money at 50 years old, married, men long time live seven or eight years longer than unmarried men.

Now, John Deloni and I were discussing that piece of research, he's convinced it's because our wives keep us from doing stupid things to kill us. Yes. Yes. Are you gonna eat that?

Are you gonna eat that? Are you gonna eat that? Are you gonna wear that? Are you gonna wear that? David.

David. Yeah. Passive aggressive questions coming from the Southern Bay. There you go. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm convinced this is real. Well, and ladies live longer than 10 years. You have a 20% higher possibility of surviving a cancer diagnosis if you're married. And the stats on, what is it?

Is it fulfillment or happiness within the marriage? Yes, happiness. Before, living together, before marriage, even. Yep.

Relationships has been, we live together first and actually the data is coming out against

that. All the happiness. Versus like playing house together, like we are married and we're not because from the psychological perspective of the deep commitment that you have for protection. And that's ours.

We believe in all of that. Yes. All of that. I mean, yes, it is all wrapped in together. And again, it's not what the culture is doing.

“I know it's not the norm, but that's what's coming out.”

So. Here's a good idea, too. More people live together now than, than, than that aren't married than live together that aren't married. And America, for the first time over that happened about 10 years ago, the shift is.

But the more people are tracking up than or married today.

“But here's the thing you got to keep in mind, okay?”

Divorcerates at an all-time high and if that's the case, then the splits that aren't divorced are at an all-time high, then we know those things are there. So what you got to figure out is what do most people do in a world where very few people are successful at any area of their lives and figure out what normal is and run from normal, normal sucks.

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“You'll take your right there, Jennifer is in Daytona, hi, Jennifer, how are you?”

I would like to say it's better than I deserve. It's cool. But that's fine. Right on brand, how can we help? Okay, so long story short, I'm trying to figure out if we should refinance my private

student loan. So me and my husband kind of discovered you in your whole program and maybe that's not all that about a year and a half ago and so I'm a full-time teacher so I teach in high school. So it's 40 hours, but 40 hours means 50 and then I started working in a restaurant and

then I started baking business, like it's been more time with my daughter and make an income. And then from that, my baking stuff, I started putting on a wedding show, we're just making a lot more money. It's a great, but because I made all this income, my husband works about 56 hours soon.

So having more 60 because I made this more income, now my government student loans are going

there's a new medication that I'm going to try, my insurance that I pay 12 hours a month

for is denying the coverage of that medication. I might have to start paying it, I just changed my entire diet to see if that helps for his paying for his medication which is like 500 bucks a month they said, so I'm changing my entire diet so that way I could save the money. Okay, so what's student loan debt do you have?

So government's loans, I'm in the, and I know you're going to, I don't want this one, but I'm in that, like, what is the balance on, what's the balance on your government's loan? So the government's loan is about 80,000. Okay, and the balance on your private student loans.

About 17,000. Okay, good news. All right, good. So a hundred thousand dollars gets you out of student loan debt. How much other debt do you guys have?

Not care how much. We paid everything off. We paid everything. So you're debt free.

“And what is your household income with all this activity?”

You guys are working like horses, man. Oh, you have no idea. I'm so tired. And my kids kind of miss me, but I'm like, it'll be fine, we'll make it work. So it's probably around 130 give or take.

Okay, first rule is we need to find out exactly what our income is, and we need to have

a detailed plan of where every dollar of that income is going on the every dollar budgeting app, okay? Okay. And that will make you feel like you got a raise, because part of this chaos that is your life right now is the finances are very disorganized and they're kind of floating around

as separate numbers in your head instead of sitting in a line. Yeah, it's just that adds strength. We don't have a set like paychecks, because I mean, my husband obviously depends on his hours too, and actually just I can pick up a restaurant and I understand. So it's my salary.

You've got all these wonderful things going on that are side of it, but we still need a detailed game plan of exactly where every dollar comes in as it comes in, but sometimes it's going to be more sometimes it's going to be less, but we need a detailed game plan and you and him need to be agreed. I'm telling you your stress level will go down, your fatigue level will go down, because

“you don't mind working if you can see the traction, if you can see the progression, like”

if you look up and you go, we just paid off $20,000 in student loan debt and our private student loans are gone. See, then I'm not as tired. And you've been on this for a year and a half, Jennifer, you said, how much debt have you guys paid off so far?

I'm almost 100,000, so I'm still like in a year or another year, you'll be dead free. I'm kind of hoping so. No, no, no, no, that's a math thing. It's not a hope thing. Yeah.

If you already paid off 100 in a year, you could pay off 100 in another year. Yeah, you're in a half. Okay. They make a hundred and thirty, they have a hundred thousand dollars, so. Yeah.

So it'll be a year and a half, but Jennifer, to the point that you could still budget with an inconsistent income.

You guys just every month kind of gas and just say, okay, here's what we think we're going

to make. And when the 15th hits and it's a little bit less, you just lower that income, which means you already have planned out which categories you're going to lower or what's going to be

“cut out of the budget for the remaining part of the month.”

So we're not putting as much on the student loan as all it is. Oh, fair, fair, fair, fair. All you're going to be doing is putting everything on the student loan and how much you make up or down is going to be more on the student loan or less on the student loan. That month.

That's all it is. That's the only variable in this. Helping you stay within the margin of your food budget, your out to eat. Yep. I mean, all the extra stuff that just ends up kind of slipping away that can add up to

a couple hundred bucks a month, which makes a dent in the stead over, you know, do you mean over a period of time? Okay. But it is that kind of strict budget, but you guys have been doing it. I mean, so you're paying job, if you only have the student loan's debt, that's

left. And we're on an 18 month schedule to pay them off, you're paying way more than minimums anyway. So, what did you do up to? Yeah.

Yep. Okay. Is it on? You said something Jennifer, as you were saying, the 80,000 and you're like, you're going to hate this, but you're on the, well, you're, um, she's on the income

rate. Yeah. And they said, like, after 10 years, I'm on like, you're seven of it, but now you're not. I wouldn't like that.

I would just get paid off. Let's just get it paid off. Yeah. Yeah. Because you can't count on them.

They lie. It's, it's the federal government. And like, 1.7% of the people that do the 10 year 1 payment repayment plans so far have actually gotten forgiveness. It's a nobody gets it because it's so screwed up and bureaucratic and messed up that

I'm going to be the one, yeah, you're, no, you're not. Don't do it. Just get it paid off. You're working like crazy people get, cause think about where you'll be two years from the day when you have a payment in the world, except your house.

Wow. Be honest. I'm telling you, all this, the medical stuff you're facing will, will be affected

And when there's all this chaos and lack of organization and when the weight of the $100,000 is not there anymore, all of that's going to affect, it does affect health. It does with everyone, by the way. So. And well done, you guys, though, I mean, yeah, you're doing, you're killing, you're killing

up. You're doing real. For a millionaires study, teachers are on the list of the five careers, yeah, babies have some millionaires, Jennifer. So you guys are, you're in great professions, you've got a great head on your shoulder.

Just dial in the budget and I promise you'll be finding some more cash when you do that.

Yeah, wow, that's powerful and she's not lacking in energy.

No, she can work. She's got a lot of energy, too. She's got a lot of energy, too. She's got a lot of energy, too. She's got a lot of energy, too.

She's got a lot of energy, too. She's got a lot of energy, too. She's got a lot of energy, too. Like her. She's neat.

So, way to go, kiddo. Keep push on through and get this stuff out of your life.

“But the best way to do it, the most efficient use of money, is a detailed plan.”

And one of the things, folks, if you think about this way, if you worked for a company called you incorporated in your job, but you incorporated was to manage money for you incorporated and you managed money for you incorporated the way you managed money for you now. Would you fire you?

And if the answer is yes, then probably you ought to change something.

And don't be sitting around shocked at your broke. If you're doing a bad job, you're handling the money. And so, you know, like I've got 14 profits center here at Ramsey. I just met with one of my while I go for an hour and a half going over their detailed budget.

And the vice president of that area is showing me with smart vester, we're looking at smart vester stuff. And he's showing me exactly what we've got to come in, exactly what we've got going out. We're going over the details.

And, you know, we have blame me, he has a stinking budget and blame me, it's organized and blame me, executes, because it's this freaking job, hello. And get the keep that job. That's how he does it, hello. So he's really good at it.

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In the last ID, 1 5 9 1, in the last consumer access.org, equal housing lender, 17 49 feathery lanes, weak 100 print went in to see 37027. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwins Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today.

The open phones are Triple 8, 825, 5225, Emily is in Raleigh, North Carolina, Hi, Emily, how are you? Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. I'm doing good.

How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? My question for you is I've been with my boyfriend for four years now and we're at a fork in the road where we had a conversation yesterday and he gave me a list of things I need

to work on to earn an engagement. Should I leave? What? I know the answer. Wait.

What? What? How old are you? I'm 31, he's 38, we've both been married. Can I ask?

That's to be like overly vulnerable and maybe like what's on the list? Two things. I struggle with change in adversity. I struggle with change and you struggle with adversity. What's dealing with adversity?

“And you have to fix both of those to earn his hand.”

It's not something he wants to come home to every day for the rest of his life. What? Do you feel like you have that attitude while you are dating? Has there been conversations and he's like, you see the glass half empty? I need someone to glass half full.

What have the conversations been before this list was created?

I asked a question back, has it always felt this way?

He said, no, it's just been the last year. I asked him, well, we've gone through a lot of challenges and adversity this last year. It's probably been the most challenging year we've had. What kind of adversity did you face that you weren't good at? According to him, I have changed my career and moved out of state three times in the last

year to stay in this relationship and I'm being asked to do it again and I don't want to do without a commitment.

“And that's what the adversity is you've had all of these moves and you're sick of it.”

And that means you're according to him, you're not good at adversity. Yeah, my response is if things can stabilize for more than one year than I will be able to be content again. Why does he move every year? And there weren't vicious people, promotions.

We decided to open our franchise, which is why we moved and it didn't work out, so there's been some financial hardship along the way that has caused more stress. So that's essentially what's been the most recent adversity we've gone through. And we're about to go through it again. So I'm a little nervous, I feel like I've got to watch myself if I decide to move forward

again. Sharon and I moved out of a home that we had had for 15 years that we built, custom-made, beautiful home, and in 21, when people were paying more for properties than they should have, someone paid us more for that than they should have. And so we sold it and we were homeless and we went and bought a house and we moved.

Those were decisions we made together and there was always stress associated with a move.

But I don't think either one of us would call that adversity. That was, we decided to change our location together and together we changed our location. And whatever drama there was was outside of our house that was she and I facing that drama, not like I'm weak and I can't handle the change and you're strong and you can. We didn't have that discussion because we both decided and did it together.

So I'm a little bit confused coming from that point of view as to how moving is actually adversity. Well, she said she followed him around, she had to move three different times to stay in the relationship. So he's asking her to move with him and she's like, I don't want to move again.

“I got that part but I don't even think this quote, I think adversity will all work.”

I think that okay, it could be the wrong word but I think it's stressful, I think her following him and then having to quote unquote put on a brave face and you can't even authentically be yourself when you are stressed.

Diversity is you have having to move.

You have a cancer diagnosis. Diversity is someone in your family is sickness or an illness. Diversity is you got fired from a job that was not your decision. Well, their franchise failed. Yeah.

That's a failed business isn't adversity but moving cities to take a better job and choosing to do that with your boyfriend is not adversity. So it is change, it's dramatic change. And you could hate that though. Yeah, and I'm good with hating and I'm just curious, it's just a curious word choice for

me. That on his part. Yeah, or on yours to adopt it, either one, but they are interesting. Interesting. Interesting.

Yeah. So I think this doesn't come down to your deficit and he's got it all together. I think it comes down to your sick of following this guy around. Yep. I don't get anything out of it.

And he knows it. And he knows it. He knows your sick of it. And he wants you to not be sick of it. And you're sick of it.

Yeah, I feel like it's a too bad so sad to well kind of respond. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I'm just, it's just a fork in the road in my life. And that's hard with you guys every day, and I--and that's heartbreaking.

I'm sorry. And I'm sorry. And that's hard. And that's hard. And that's hard.

And that's hard. And that's hard. And that's hard. And that's hard. And that's hard with you guys every day.

And that's hard breaking. And I'm sorry.

“If you had a daughter and her 18-year-old boyfriend said, you have to do these three things”

to get married to me, you would tell your daughter, "Run." I'd be like, "Here's my list for you." Yeah. Shad. You need to change these things.

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah.

It's a change or commitment issue, Shad.

Yeah. Man. I've been following your butt around. And all you got for the return for that criticism.

“So yeah, I think you already made your decision for you called us.”

But it just, you hadn't said it out loud, and now you did. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. That hurts.

I appreciate it. You know, just talking to like-minded people getting their opinion on it? Yeah. Well, and here's the truth, too, Emily. You want to partner.

You want to spouse in your life if you choose to get married to him, that you can come home

and be who you need to be at home. Then again, you don't-- I mean, and I get that, like, some people complain of marriage. So in so-and-so complaints all the time. There's a level of authenticity of like, I need to just, like, unload right now, like, I'm so stressed.

And I need you to partner with me and that, and hear that in me, and empathize and ask questions, be curious, like, do this life with me, not that I have to image manage in front of my spouse. Do you know what you mean? Like, that's-that's going to be an exhausting life. Yeah, I have to do this to earn.

Yes. This is a conditional love versus unconditional love. Yeah. And we're getting your side of the story.

And I'll say, more and more now, we get DMs from the person on the other side of the story.

Yeah, I already mean, and you hear--

“But, let me tell you, you can damn if you want to DM, but you did leave your girl friend”

of four years who followed you in three different cities, feeling this way. Even if you didn't say it that way, you left her feeling like you said it that way. So you're still screwed up. Emily, I'm sorry. Yeah.

Sorry, that's awful. People do like change, by the way. When it's changed for the better, they love it. You're about a new car. Exciting and fun.

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Start the every dollar process for free by downloading the app in the App Store or Google Play. Thomas is in Phoenix. Hi Thomas, how are you? Hi, we are today but I'm doing well.

Good. How can we help? So I am just very, very steady step too and I'm 52 years old and so I'm doing steps 3 and 4 right now and I just wanted some guidance on whether I should do focus more on investing or paying down my mortgage once I get 3 accomplished.

Okay. Can I get numbers? Cool. We teach to do baby steps 1 through 3 which is $1,000 saved and out of debt everything but the house and then 3 is a fully funded emergency fund with great focused intensity.

“One of those things at a time until it's accomplished so you should not be doing anything”

on 4 until 3 is done and you're probably going to do that in just a month or two or maybe 10 minutes. I don't know. Baby step 3 completed, then we change from scorched earth intensity like running for

when you could upgrade a car or do some other you know going to trip or something like

“that but until then till you get past baby step 3 you don't need to be eating out you”

don't need to be buying cars you don't need to do nothing okay so once you're there then baby steps 4, 5 and 6 we do simultaneously which is kind of what you're trying to do

and right now I'm 3 and 4 and that's 15 percent of your household income going into retirement

and if you have kids college to deal with that's baby step 5 and then any other married no kids okay then any other money beyond 15 percent of your income being saved would go on the house mortgage and so we're running baby steps 4 and 6 simultaneously but it's very simple you put 15 percent away and every other dollar you can find that you don't need to use to have a good life you can throw at the debt and what typically happens is people are

paying off their homes using that system in between 7 and 10 years so let's look at your numbers what's your household income so I'm a Fed and I make 55471 a year and I have a V8 compensation which is 21,701 a year okay so you have 76,000 dollar income thank you for your service and and you owe what on your home and you said your 55 years old 502 years old that's right okay all right so cool so what we would prescribe is you get your emergency fund finished and then you're

putting 15 percent of your income away it's about $10,000 a year but I don't know books a month

and if you're working for the Fed you could you could you could put it in the thrift savings plan the TSP or and or you could use just a Roth IRA and good mutual funds and that'll take

“care of a bunch of you could 8,000 in that and that's what I would yeah TSP has a loss now”

so yeah but they also don't have as good options as the open market does for for mutual funds the best option on the TSP by far is the C plan it's the only thing that even mimics the market and it's about like an S&P 500 so it's a good investment it's not a bad investment and so if you if you need to do some in the TSP what I would do is put $8,000 into a Roth getting with a smart vester pro and put $2,000 into the TSP and then beyond that if I can find any money

in the budget I must start throwing it to the house do you have any money right now Thomas saved in retirement I've got no for retirement I got 26 in the TSP 26,000 okay because I was just running out is the caveat is there's an investment on package that is being handled

“and it was my dad and he made my step on the beneficiary she doesn't touch it she doesn't need it”

and she's like this is yours when I die that's not how much it is you don't know how much it is yeah so I would plan like that doesn't exist yeah so if you ran if you did the numbers I just typed in the calculator real quick Thomas with your 26,000 that you have and you put 800 bucks away between now and 67 you'll have $565,000 and you've got your military retirement of 21,000 yep yeah yeah I came up with the same numbers when I used to calculate which doesn't include

you have it include the said contributions right so good and and whatever is going to happen oh wait man if that's contributing to your TSP 5% is that a match yeah okay well you do the you put 5% in the match then for sure and the other 10% you could put in Roth IRA so match in the C plan TSP Roth and then Roth and a good gross stock mutual funds and with your smart investor pro that you can contact at Ramsey Solutions.com and yeah you're gonna have half

million to million dollars you know by the time you need some money and you're doing really good

I'm glad and you got 21,000 dollars you're coming in as long as you're alive military retirement which is excellent so very cool and and the house will get paid for using this system and but no I would not put more or less in retirement I would work that exact plan yeah that exact plan and then bump it up when the house is paid off through and more investments and you can have more there at retirement so well done Thomas which is so encouraging to do all of this in

your early 50s like he's jumping on the plan now you know on baby step three starting retirement I mean it can be done yeah it's great ever since we started doing this we had people in their 50s and 60s and 70s ask you know is it too late well not if you're breathing you still

that's the idea so you you can do a lot of stuff in a few years but it's is it easier if you start earlier

“yeah for you 21 year olds 100 bucks a month and you're a millionaire in no time man I mean just”

shut up hello that's way different than saving 800 bucks a month to end up with a half million that's

right you know so yeah get get that compound interest the eighth wonder of the world according to Einstein are working in your favor right and it's it is if you're in compound interest numbers it blow your freaking mind how powerful that is all right Ted is with us in Nashville hi Ted how are you how do you how well how good better than we deserve what's up wonderful my wife 31 I'm 36 we're on four five and six we owe about 328 thousand on a house

this quarter's about 550 thousand we have about 300 thousand saved currently for retirement why to go I'm about six years away from being eligible from collecting my pension and retiring from the military I'm in a blended retirement system and I was doing I was reading some of the literature recently and I hadn't realized that I have an option to take a reduced pension at either 25% reduction or 50% reduction in exchange for the lump sum do it and I got on asked grams you last night

yeah and asked ask grams yeah I was very helpful I ran a couple of models and it all looks like a good idea yep I mostly wanted help deciding if I'm missing something figure yeah what exactly I want to do with the lump sum no be a roll you roll the lump sum into an IRA so there's no taxes on it that way and you leave it alone and you let the lump sum grow because the lump sum will grow and feed you more than the pension would have fed you because the mutual funds are going

to get a greater rate than the pension is yeah it's not even close yeah and when you die the

pension dies with you and lump sums don't die with you so you end up with a half million or a million

dollars as a result of this over in your inheritance versus when you die pension just goes poof yeah the models that I ran I'd be giving up $480,000 of future pension payments and if I invested that all would grow to about 3.2 over the same time period so you did it correctly

“that's why we tell you to do it that's exactly it and you didn't miss a thing that that's how”

smart it is it's it's not just a little bit smart it's like a waste smart day we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens one day someone's healthy they're working providing for their family and then a curveball hits you know we heard all the time a car accident a cancer diagnosis a heart attack and suddenly everything changes yeah and that's why

you've always said that having term life insurance from zander is essential because it protects

your family if the worst happens yeah that's right you need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage no gimmicks no whole life junk just straightforward term life protection but there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance yeah it's important to understand the difference between them life insurance steps in when you die disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work so it replaces a large part of your income so the bill

still get paid while you get back on your feet now if your employer gives you free disability insurance great take it if it's a discounted there at a better price take it but if not zander can help you find the right plan whether you're single or married it's not optional if you're gonna be out of work

“for a while then you need to make sure the money still showing up and that's why zander is our go-to”

they make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price no pressure no upselling I've trusted Jeff Zander and zander insurance for over 25 years and so is my family to don't wait it's fast it's easy and they could make all the difference go to zander.com or call eight hundred three five six forty two eighty two protect yourself protect your income protect your family

hey so I'm going over my mom's finance with her she's 55 years old as only 19 thousand dollars

“in retirement in a ton of consumer credit debt and a heloc loan and I built her a spreadsheet just”

to get everything out in front of her so that she could see what her finance is look like and I was trying to teach her the debt snowball method she's got about two hundred dollars that she could start throwing I can see her credit debt but I was wondering if there's a quicker way that we could get her I say we well brother and I were trying to get her positioned better financially before she

kind of hits that retirement age that's very neat and she's accepting your coaching that's interesting

yeah um it's hesitant leave it yes I heard it I'm sorry my little brother I'm 27 my little brother's 24 and we're just trying what do you do for a long time and take care of it I'm a mechanical engineer I work on elevators okay all right so your detail guy yeah and spreadsheet yeah you love spreadsheet yeah I can tell and you're a good son you're really helping her that's awesome and I appreciate that you're guiding her on that what is her income so she makes $20 an hour so after taxes her

take home is roughly she nets $2,500 but her monthly gross is $3,400 so about $41,000 what does she do for living she's a custodian at home and we're sure dad all in town oh my dad's kind of out of the picture he's off doing his own thing just they're divorced really contributed they are separated yes they're divorced are they separated are they divorced they're divorced okay all right

“because that'll matter in her future how long have they been split up um I think they're coming”

up on like 11 years being divorce okay good all right so how much credit card debt is there so mine it's the key you all grown about $16,000 okay and is she using credit cards to get by monthly at $3400 and covering her expenses or is it just kind of flip it spending that's caused it um so her it's kind of a messy situation she right now is living off of just her paycheck I made sure that she like when I talked to her she's just using her debit card to pay off all of her

debts yeah so she's not using her credit cards at all okay she's chosen um Palm Beach a while back where Marlaga was among others and about three doors down from Marlaga is a property that is

“probably a couple hundred million dollars in value and the lady that lives there was Mary Kay of”

Mary Kay Cosmetics that she built that house you know you've heard of her I'm sure yeah okay she um got divorced at 55 years old and started from nothing and decided I don't want to be broken anymore so she started her whole life her on core her whole career everything started at your mom's age

and so I I want that for your mom I don't know if I wanted to be in a 200 million dollar house next

to Marlaga but anyway but I want a I want a second chapter yeah beyond the 11 year ago divorce beyond being a custodian because she she didn't sign up for the trip she's on and I wanted to sign up for a new trip so I'm gonna ask her as her 65 year old older brother what she's gonna do in her on core career what's the next chapter of your life look like honey what do you want to be when you grow up because now at 55 you get a second chance you've got 40 years 30 years of income potential

and I don't want you there's nothing shameful about being a custodian making $20 but part of her problem is she's a custodian making $20 and the life that she settled in on she'll still be doing that 25 years from now if she doesn't have some kind of a wake-up call you follow me yeah and that's a bigger concern than a little bit of credit card debt I agree so I want to I'm gonna put a bunch of inspirational literature around her make sure she has

same person you are today except for the books you read and the people you meet so I want her to meet

some new people because you become who you hang around with I want her to read some new books I want her to get her nose back in her bible and her tail end back in church and I want her to get fired up and wired up about who she's going to be in this next chapter and I want her making $45 an hour 48 months from today this is the kind of way I want to think about this for her I wanted to have a better life than she's got lined out right now then obviously the side the

byproduct of that is it solves your problem that you're facing because part of what you're facing

“is you're taking very little income and trying to squeeze a lot out of it that's what you're”

spreadsheet told you right yeah yeah so part of what you got to a huge income problem but the reason

you have an income problem is you've got a perception problem and the dreams died on the first

go around and we need a new set of dreams so that's yeah yeah I want Mary Kay for story for her I want that too I was wondering what your thoughts on this where if she only has about $19,000 in retirement due to the way the company that she's worked for a structure that it's really messed up what if she were to take that $19,000 out of the 401k and obviously has to pay taxes on it and just not to all of her consumer debt and then she's left with only the $34,000 on the

“he-law having to pay off that he-law and then that would make her cash flow about $1300 a month”

yeah if we don't do the other thing I was talking about it won't matter

right because she's gonna struggle to make ends meet at 20 bucks an hour that's below the poverty level she's gonna struggle and okay and and it's gonna get harder and harder and harder as she ages because it's you know it's hard to be a custodian when you're 70 so yeah you know your feet hurt hello your back hurts hello yeah and I wonder you know even kids book we could give her a give her a copy of that because there's a great finding the

work you're wired to do yeah because there's a greatest estimate in the back just to start

“jogging her memory of what she enjoys right you find what you're good at her natural bent”

the may has been squash for years when who knows right but just to get some ideas of course definitely did a no I'm sure I'm sure it's still you're still trying to encourage her with this because when I started the spreadsheet it deflated every kind of a little bit because she wasn't snowballing she was paying extra yeah yeah so yeah I know I would not cash out the retirement because I don't want you to have to I don't want to have to pay the 10% penalty plus her taxes on the retirement I

would stop adding anything to retirement and I would lean in and pick up extra jobs and start taking classes and do whatever we want to do for this next chapter um and then clear you know begin clearing the death that way but if we waived a one and she had no dad including her heloc and she's a $20 an hour a 55 years old and she has no hope of that changing much except for a little bit of a cost living raise ever so often and it goes from $20 to $20 and $45 cents

or whatever right that's not we're not prescribing a prosperous future with no dad and so you know your spreadsheets not gonna get fixed until you put more on the top of it but yeah keep working on it and keep encouraging her but if I were in her shoes I would spend 80 to 90% of my energy dreaming again and setting up my next career and 10% of my energy trying to manage the mess that I'm sitting in and I'm gonna work my way out of this manure and and go on

to the next thing the best revenge is success so hang on we'll send you a copy of Ken's book . Tests is in Detroit I test how are you?

mowing around the idea of buying a new car and we finally decided on what we might like

and separate separately we looked it up well okay this is pretty good what little set us and then I said well let's go buy it because we have cash for changes buy it and he said oh you know they have zero percent financing why wouldn't we do that and I thought you know I looked at the show all the time but I don't really know I would be you don't do it because you don't want to get it all but oh we'll do it I wouldn't you you know use their money yeah well I bet that actually that

would be but the cop would cause you to have more money or build some wealth because you did that that would be the hypothetical no ors I'm not I'm paying no interest in you know my investments

“are paying me but the the truth is what ends up happening it is it's not gonna be a problem”

for you you go you got plenty of money I can tell yeah it would never be a problem but but you

would lose money yeah no you don't you don't because here's why two reasons number one what what car is it what's the car well I love you like if we did it was a no what car is it's a hundred Santa Fe that we rented we were in California okay we wouldn't have ever looked at that car but it was a run-all and we're like wow this was really nice it was a rental they rented one and liked it oh I see I see I see okay I understand yeah that's happened to me okay um and I also

decided on some cars I would never buy after a rented them but the uh the cheap wagon air and the anyway the um yeah oh bad car um the uh I haven't looked at Hyundai's program but every program

“I have ever looked at the only way they give you zero percent is if you pay MSRP you pay full price”

you pay sticker so zero percent is not really zero percent so I bought a uh a new raptor bronco the other day okay okay it's Q car and uh I bought that car that's the adjective you use for your car I have a Q car it's it is it's Q it's a Q I mean compared to my big truck it's a Q low car but the um it's um it's it's brand new and um I called the dealer that I work with on Ford stuff when I'm buying it great people and I just buy it for a few dollars over invoice did they do that for everybody

did they do that for everybody because they get they get manufacturer rebates and kickbacks and 14 different things and they make plenty of money on the car at invoice so $500 over invoice thousand dollars over invoice that kind of thing is fairly typical on a car like you're talking about like I'm talking about okay and that's a lot less than MSRP a lot less than it's on the sticker so zero percent is not zero percent that's problem number one problem number two is I have met

what we did detailed research with 10,000 millionaires and the number of millionaires that we interviewed that told us that they became millionaires because they use zero percent financing and you kept their money working for them was precisely zero none of them do millionaires just don't do this okay I agree I don't want to stink in car payment maybe bottle even if it's a zero percent I don't want to stink in car payment and it's that

simple so yeah so yeah you win the argument and it's an interesting discussion but that's the two reasons one is you're paying too much for the car and so it's not really zero percent because you really ended up you know you know since tomorrow on the money that and an interest rate so and then the other thing is that real real people that have real money don't do this crap

“and you've got real money and that's why you stopped and said I don't think so honey yeah in the”

problem is when you don't have real money you still go into this if you miss a payment or something goes off sometimes they backtrack all the interest and it's some absolute yeah you can really get the terms that you have to abide by to continue to get zero percent and to get zero percent in

the first place are pretty horrendous so they basically very few people by the time they get through

all that at the dealership end up with zero percent and so it's a bit of a bait and switch to get you in the door and get you go oh we'll get you in the finance office and then we'll get your real loan you know and that happens all the lot because you gotta have all count well that's it that's don't do it Michelle's in Sacramento high Michelle hi how are you better than I deserve what's that okay okay I just had a quick question about I'm sure thank you count so my husband and I

have been married for we're going on eight years and we have a shared bank account and then we have

that open and have my paycheck go directly to that because okay and those it's kind of I got to

“think about it and he's one we just barely got to base that three and we are completely out of debt”

and we have our first month expenses for emergency sons in there saved up and we're moving

trying to get that moved out but I just don't feel comfortable keeping that other bank account open it help like you know just okay we are working we are working on the baby steps which in the case that both of you have some exposure to Ramsey and yet he now has decided he has a better plan and that's that we don't do anything we separate everything in like a room mates yeah kind of but he's when he like he's still is giving me access to the family

and the groceries and all that's nice of him he wants to and it's not like he's why does he want to do it for sure what's I don't understand his why keep it open and put your income in that

for what though like to oh so there's so he hasn't ex-wife and he's nervous if something happens

“there he wants to make sure that we have separate that doesn't affect the family you count okay”

how can his ex-wife get into the family account she can't I I'm not sure no she can't I even even in California they don't allow that that's fair yeah so it's just it's just kind of it it I don't know if it's him trying to be like he's trying to think that it's like a safety thing or a backup safety thing or whatnot but no I have it he and I have sat down and had the had a conversation about I said I I'm not comfortable yeah like I'm not doing it yeah we've already

been there eight years but nothing to be insecure about you know you're yeah and we've already

gotten out of everything if you're worried about me we got a different issue and it's not a separate

account if you're worried about her you have a different issue and it's your lack of knowledge of how the legal system works she's gone she's called the ex for a reason she's used to be when they've settled everything you guys have been she's a starter one she's been married for eight years so so interesting yeah yeah and there's been there's only last of like maybe two or three but but and that's the thing is like we're on the same page with everything else but it's just

for some reason it and he wants it to go to like you know this is where we pull to go for well I mean when you when you say no I'm not going to do that and I'm not okay with that what's what's going to happen I don't know I don't think it's anything I don't know because you want to wait you make sense to keep it everything and you're right okay right if we wanting to have a separate account in general to put all of like you guys together like and he's just saying hey

I'm going to save your income over here so when we go on trips or need to buy a car we pull out of that account is that what you're saying yeah that's yeah okay so I would have a okay so what I would do Michelle is I would go get our smart bundle at fair winds credit union this is what Winston I did you have a checking account in there and then you can have up to 10 high yield savings account so we have an emergency fund in one and then you can open up another one

and yeah and if you guys look at the budget and say hey we're going to do the budget and we're going to save some amount of money so this amount of money and maybe it comes out to your paycheck

“and that's what you all agree let's put my paycheck in this high yield savings and we're that's”

going to be our big bucket of savings throughout the next couple of years and we need to pull from it yes that's a Winston I do we have you know but you you you are aren't putting you are already we're putting 15% of your income away before that and you were already you had about how many more baby says yeah but I'm saying the way baby step three okay that's okay you should not be saving money in a addition to 14% of your income that's fair except for miscellaneous living but I am saying a different

account that you guys put the amount of money maybe that goes to your pay check to be saving in general later on in the baby steps that's fine to have another account to do that but both your names are on it and the amount that's going into it happens to be some amount that's right that's right it doesn't need to be we need to hide your check over here in a failed business checking account yuck you know I'm trying to try to paint another picture for you Michelle

welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwins credit union studio I'm Dave Ramsey Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality my daughter is my co-host today open phones at triple eight

to take my call sure what's up so my brothers and I were working on a plan we're trying to

“figure out the best and most efficient way to buy my parents out of our family business so they can”

retire cool okay so what is the business net profit net a year is right around a million

gross his last year gross was about eight million okay and what are they wanting to be paid they haven't said on a number the company was evaluated around 14 million no it's not they I wouldn't not even close a million dollar profit companies not worth 14 million on any planet so with 600 acres of land well you know you might have a piece of real estate this was some money but the company itself is generating a million dollars and if you're if you

you would be raising your pay 14 million dollars for that so what is the land worth sure yeah the land itself is the bulk of that um that's at least nine million nine ten million

okay that'd be about right if it's 10 million yeah four a company is netting a million is probably

worth about four okay and the in the land is worth nine so you have two transactions is my point you have a real estate transaction you have a real estate transaction in the purchase of the actual business because you can pick the business what kind of business is this farming yeah it's farming it's a special to crown okay all right yeah it's going to say you can pick it up go to somewhere else that's not possible okay um but but yeah do your parents own the land outright Steven

no that's that's another thing they are some several of the acreage they do oh not right but but the majority of the has alone on it how much debt is against the ten million dollars in real estate

but um it's right around two million so they have good amount of equity but yeah and um

amount of debt for that small thing yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay all right i'm trying to think how to structure this all right let's go back to the but the easiest one okay the easiest one is the business itself not counting the land okay all right if you were to give them four million dollars for the property are not for the property ten but value the property ten million and we're going to give them four million

then the way i would do that is i would take out toe you and your brothers to take a bare minimum wage for the work that you do whatever you're what is your position with the company operations manager then what do you get paid for being operations manager when you get paid around a hundred thousand okay so if you and you can live on that yes okay so i would tell you to continue to take a hundred thousand each as your

salaries which nets the company one million dollars and my correct yes okay and i would give them the one million dollars for four years you get a hundred percent of profits or ninety percent of profits for four years until we get to four million dollars if we get if we have a better year and we have a great crop we might get there in three years we might get there in three and a half but you're going to

get out of there you get a percentage of profits the lion share the biggest portion of the

“profits ninety percent or so until you get to four million dollars a moment and that's how you”

buy them out of the out of the business then we've got a ten million dollar real estate transaction to do that's a separate transaction that's much more complicated all right because you take payments on ten million dollars out of your million dollar profits and you don't have any profit anymore so this business is not viable it's not a profitable business if someone came in and borrowed to buy the land and the business and borrowed fourteen million dollars they would lose money

and so the business cannot afford to pay market value for the land and make a profit right so what are they going to do they got will it to you are they going to take four million dollars is their retirement and then give you boys the the dirt when they die and you guys

“work to pay that two million dollars off that's what I would recommend but I don't know if you're”

parents or that generous or can see their way to do that I believe that that's that's the play honestly they don't have you know they've been running business for lots I don't have any hard been every time but the business is a very time and so I would see that as a pretty good I think

give you guys the land as a part of their estate planning they could do it pre pre depth you know

out of state tax gifts and that kind of things there's all kinds of ways you can do it and we can even do and I'll see and do partial interest and devalue that those interest there's all kinds of stuff a state planner could teach you to do to get that land transferred to y'all and then you guys after you get your parents paid off go get that mortgage paid off quick and you're sitting there with all this debt free and this is a stinking cash cow now you're killing it it's wonderful

“yeah that that's what I would do but if they want to be paid 14 million I don't think you can do it”

I think you'll go broke he can't but could they go out and get they couldn't get no one would

get away do that yeah so what you'd have to do is sell the land and sell the business but you can't sell the business effort from the land because it is a special thing to drop on that land so they're they're inextricably tied together where like you know Ramsey could operate in any building we happen to own the building but that's a separate thing than Ramsey sir so you could pick this up and put it in another office building somewhere right and then so the real estate doesn't

destroy the business or vice versa but whereas tied together with a specialty crop in particular

sorry I don't know maybe they're growing what avocados or something only is a California right

so I don't know I didn't ask you what the crop was but and you know it's it's probably some kind of something that has been done there for almost generational on that piece of dirt so those trees are that those plants are in a sense or they're they're mature to produce the crop that they're producing and you couldn't just go do that somewhere else probably I'm not an agricultural expert but that's common sense I guess wow interesting very interesting yeah yeah so one of the things we've

worked with a lot in our entree leadership materials is succession planning and we've done a bunch of it here at Ramsey I mean you're looking at part of it right now Rachel is the Ram one of the Ramsey personalities the the ability to carry on a brand after I'm not here for whatever reason and so you've got to have a plan to carry on the brand you've got to have a plan to carry on the leadership you've got to have a plan to carry on the ownership and Rachel and her brother Daniel and I

just did a panel at the Entree Leadership Summit in a Disney two weeks ago for 3,000 business owners

“and we're talking about family business mm-hmm yeah and I think what's hard in family business”

depending on how it's structured is that for a lot of people they grow a business and that's their retirement and so when you hand it off purchasing the business is usually the name of the game in family business and so making sure you sit down and you do it well with an attorney right you're said the estate attorney but lots of communication on the front end too that everyone understands what's happening really really important all the spouses and everyone understands

[Music] If you're a business owner who's serious about growth you've got to be at Entree Leadership Summit 2027 summit is our world class leadership conference where you will learn from the people who have influenced the way we lead at Ramsey you'll also connect with like-minded business owners who are facing the same challenges as you to get your tickets for May 2027 go to Entree Leadership.com/summit

[Music] Thanks for joining us America we're so glad you're here if you're buying or selling a home it's a big deal

“you need to get someone in your corner that really knows their stuff not somebody got a license three”

weeks ago and you knew him in high school no that's not what we're doing we're getting the pro this sells a hundred houses a year something like that get somebody's high octane high protein Ramsey trusted only has high octane high protein real estate agents in our program the Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a top agent that we have interviewed we have done the due diligence on them it's a free service find a local pro a Ramsey trusted real estate pro

for free at RamseySolutions.com/agent jakes in Columbus Ohio high jkour you

I decided to purchase a home with my mother and with the agreement that she'd only be there for

“like two to three years and it's essentially transferring the my name um so recently we've been”

having more arguments because she likes to run the household a her way I like to do it my way and she pulled from her 401k to pay for the dump payment for the house but she only has about 8,000 in retirement from my questions I'm trying to figure out how we can get out of this with what the less not being escaped well I mean how much did she put into the house um I believe a dump payment was about 10,000 okay and so what do you owe on the house now um two thirty nine

the last time that I checked and what's it worth today um the last thing I saw it was two fifty nine to two sixty okay so if you sold the house and she got her $10,000 back or whatever she put down back and then you split any other profits what would be wrong with that yeah that's fair I guess it's mostly just I'm concerned because she's 57 and only has about 8,000 in retirement

“and you know I want to help her the best way that you're keeping the house doesn't affect that”

positively yeah she's got to get on her own and start putting money away for retirement that's what fixes that the house is not causing her to have retirement it'll be broke yeah what does she make um I think I'm not sure what she makes now she made about 40 last year but um what's your dad I might not pass away when I was 16 I was like 11 years ago wow I'm sorry sorry and so she has struggled ever since yes and no she for a time period had a really

well-paying job um but you know the hour she worked she said kind of it burn her out but that's where most of her retirement money came from in the first place was just from that job so how often is she working what's her work schedule look like right now um so she works she was two different jobs but they're both like part-time um just once you need an account

for a restaurant and you're the ones she's kind of like a personal assistant and the problem is

as your mom is a widow with a broken heart and she needs to dream again because she's not got any income and she's 55 years old she's still very young yeah and she desperately needs to say what am I gonna do with my life the next 20 years I need a career where I make or I'm working towards making a hundred thousand dollars a year and not working two part-time jobs and living with my son she's emotionally just getting by she needs a career she needs something to put her

hand to to give her meaning and give her something to drive for she's too young to sit on her butt she can't she and she can't afford it so it's quite like her career has been deteriorating rather than going up and so this is what she needs so it will be good for you guys it'll be good for her because it will force her to face all of this for y'all to separate this out this house does need to be sold her if you give her how well you're 27 28 right yes if you give her

all the money from the house and just go live your life you're okay yeah so give her all the money and tell her to put her in help her put it in some good investments and help her to you pay for a class and go take a class at the community college and start to what do you want to be in the mom do you want to be a nurse now do you want what does it you want to do with your life you're gonna have to do something and so it's time to sign up and dream but the plan that you guys had before

dad died is is over then now we need a new different plan we need a new plan and it's heartbreaking but it is her reality and she's perfectly capable she's your biggest problem is she's just still living with the heartbreak am I wrong yeah that's because they divorced when I was a baby

so it wasn't okay so she's but she's never really done anything since then then

“right well she had like I said like that I think she's only there for like six years six or seven”

years the one's other she had I was saying okay okay yeah I think it's good for both of you to

and you know and I think for both of you to encourage each other and this new endeavor for her and you encourage her but there's only so much you can do Jake you're not gonna be able to change her you can't make her go do something but you can't speak and be encouraging in your conversations with her and what you see in her and what she's what she's good at what she loves I mean all of it so but I I would for sure sell this house yeah prospering for someone this is the

second call we've taken a day on a 55 year old lady hmm I'm prospering for someone is not merely

“making more money you're prospering when your spiritual life is full your relational life is full”

your taking care of your body your meaning your physical life is all of it yeah that that that is prospering but these things are holistic in that they are tied together and so when you allow one area of your life to completely deteriorate a hundred percent of the time some of the other areas are also deteriorating and so you get out of shape you you know you've you've given up on God so you walked away from your spiritual life you isolate yourself from friends you pull away

from relationships all of these things are and what we find is is that people that are successful

work the opposite side of that and they're very intentional about building friendships they're very intentional about their physical health they're very intentional about their spiritual walk

“they're very intentional about their career and their money income and they do all tie together”

if you have only one of those working in the wheel of life as it's a girl used to call it these different areas of it you only have goals in one area of your life or two areas of your life the other side of the wheel is flat and you have in time you have a flat tire you have friction yep and it's a problem and so you know we were just having a we did a podcast with a guy yesterday uh you did one interview and I did another and he was talking about how he interviews very high

successful people billionaires people that have sold companies you know we just insane and he said and you can sit with them and you feel almost like this energy from some some are still anxious and discontent and nothing is satisfying on and he said all these buckets of their life you can tell there are absent some of them they're not taking care of themselves physically they don't have good relationships and other ones you get their families you feel a peace there's something about this

this well-roundedness and again there's certain seasons of life you're going to be working on your marriage more certain seasons your life when we work on your career more I mean you know it goes through seasons but overall the overall scope of your life having he with the call these buckets he said all of them full and like there's a there's a there's a leveling to that and a beauty a grounding that you really do feel and it's those people that live a peaceful life yeah

“absolutely that's how it works so that that's what Jake that's what we want for your mom”

and that's her advice five years from today you'll be the same person you are today except the books you read the people you meet the goals you said the decisions you do or those goals that's Charlie Comedys Jones and he was exactly right all right let's cut to the chase it's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right

way you'll have confidence to make smart decisions Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who

guide you through buying or selling they're people you can trust to have your back from the first

call to closing day find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey Solutions dot com slash agent that's Ramsey Solutions dot com slash agent Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by why refie out of control private student loans can make it feel like your stuck financially but why refie helps borrowers explore refinancing with low fixed rates and payments that make sense for their budget visit why

refie dot com slash Ramsey that's why the letter why R E F Y dot com slash Ramsey might not be

three years and he recently took a job for hours away I own my condo and still pay about $1,500

a month in the mortgage even though I'm at his place 60% of the time he's asked me to pay for a bigger apartment since we both work from home and need more space when I'm there while I still have my own bills I understand the larger I understand the larger place benefits both of us should I help pay for the new apartment no Sarah I would not that's his apartment and you have yours and if he wants a bigger one that's great but and if he wants his girlfriend to live there maybe she

should be his wife oh that changes the equation yeah no I wouldn't be mingling bills I wouldn't

“be trying to pay her rents because here's the thing if you guys break up and then he's stuck”

with that rent that he can't afford what's he going to do so it's way better when you are dating

to keep your finances separate you pay your stuff he pays his and if he wants a bigger apartment so that you all can work there together and all the things you want you to live in that city and you sell your condo and we get a place there oh that would be a great idea after we're married so this is what's putting the problem on it yeah put a ring on it that's the problem because it sets you up for I don't you know you're getting a bad end of this deal all the way around it's it's killer for you so um

and it it this used to be you know when I started their show where actual the the biggest thing that came up was credit card debt cut up a credit card and now still say that and then the next thing was we laughed and called it the instead of the Dave Ramsey show and the old days we called it the cell the car show because like the answer to every question with cell the car cell the car now the answer to your questions get married so true of the amount of relational

mess that happens the entanglement of dating people today when you are saying you're not married keep it separate when you are married combined it's just that easy so confusing it yeah that's it because the data is in it's in I mean the the researchers and there's stacks stacks of paper

“that says you're screwed that's what it says every bit of the data says you are messed up”

because again I covered this in another hour but the uh a lady in her 30s has a net worth if she's not married and she's living with someone I end or does not married a net worth that is about one tenth of her married friends and the guy is what five times has a fifth of his network and the guy has about 25% of the net worth he should have yeah and so there's a thing we used to call in the literature the marriage advantage and it's still there but it's even more pronounced now

in the financial realm but it's pronounced in other realms as well like for instance physical health man that is married lives seven years longer than a man that's not on average that's just a statistic okay I mean you could you could argue why we could have lots of fun with that

“and women help men that's why yeah that's why yeah you're gonna eat that yeah I mean that's that's”

real and so um the uh now don't get married to someone who's a loser too so but don't be dating those people as well like they're like we're not saying just because you don't think that's her problem no but just in general we're just like making generalities so we're more piece smart about it if you enter into a lifelong covenant make sure it's someone worth doing that but people you're dating

long-term should be worth that so yeah but here's what's interesting for Sarah's sake look at

mm-hmm okay he takes a job in the leaves now follow me oh now pay for it now pay for now pay for following me mm-hmm yeah I mean yeah what a prince yeah there we go it's it's all right they're on the paper I'm just saying David isn't Phoenix I David how are you I David I really feel good to pleasure to speak with the both of you you too I've heard the I've heard Dave talk before about the if Dave dies meeting and I got really thinking about

my own family and I feel like I need to have a similar conversation with my parent soon as they get older just to give some context I'm 23 years old I have three siblings my parents are 72 and 68 years old my oldest sister is in early 50s and I also have a brother and sister and they're 20s who both have Asperger Syndrome and they still have with my parents my parents are both

conversation sometime this year so everyone can get on the same page especially my my parents my oldest sister about the expectations for responsibilities and how the assets would be handled when they've actually passed away because of that as of right now we're both kind of in the

dark so I want to know what are the most important questions that I should be asking and what are

some of the key topics discussed in the Ramsey family meetings that would be most important for

“any family to cover it's a great question you have to lay a foundation with your family first”

before you have that other part of the conversation and the first part of the foundation is mom and dad I am not wanting to have this conversation because I want any of your money I don't need any of your money I am concerned about my two brothers my is it a brother and a sister that have Asperger's yes brother and sister I'm concerned about my brother and sister and how they're going to be cared for and what your wishes are and if I don't know your wishes in detail it will be

hard for me to honor your memory and I'm deeply concerned that I can do the right thing

and that my older sister and I are in agreement on how we're going to do exactly what you want us to do when you pass away okay and they need to hear that that's a foundational thing you are not coming at this like I want some of the money oh no we're not going to talk about it because we're

“giving it to the two that are disabled you know and so you know they they'll get their back up”

you know you'll get a resistance there a defensiveness that we don't even need to start with so let's just lay that down say the only reason for this is for me to have the information to be able to honor your wishes and execute and ensure that what you've had wished in the well even if I'm not the exact answer to that brother and sister have the documents in place that they're going to be taken care of you know I want to make sure that there's yeah things are laid out from a legal

perspective once I know what you want then I'm going to help you get what you want now then do we have a proper will which in this case would include probably special needs trust to take care of the two special needs people right and and and and then how's that money going to be invested and what do you want done with that property and what do you want done with that investment account and how do you want it handled and who do you want us to contact and he's the executor you know

is it sister that's going to be you know doing all details in my older sister the executor that's fine if you don't want me to not do anything with it I won't do anything with it all of that's okay I just want to know that for for your all's peace of mind that that we're all on the same page and and then what we're going to do once that once we're all on the same page the Ramsey thing is we just sit down and part of the meeting is we go through the real estate that we own

and we look at it and we go okay here's what the wheel says about this real estate what what portions of

it are you know in a trust in which portions of it are in LLCs and what portions of already been moved into the children's trust because we've done some stuff there from a state planning standpoint tax wise here's the life insurance that's in place and here's the beneficiaries on it and where it will go in my case there's not any and you know what do you want to have happen with the home place what do you want to have happen with this or that and it can go all the way down to my wife's

97 year old dad said told the kids about eight eight or ten years ago his kids to walk through the house and put a sticker on the back of something if they wanted it and so the house has got all these sticky notes in the back of the pictures in the backs of the figurines and stuff yeah now I will say it's funny he asks yeah the meeting is not called if Dave dies it's wind Dave dies hey well not it's a shit it's a shit okay that's the money python meeting

I'm feeling much better you want him to live forever not gonna happen but we love him you hey what's up guys it's Jade warshot listen summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs money can get tight before you know it to really get your money under control and keep it that way you're gonna need a plan

“and that's what you'll get with the every dollar budget app it helps you track your spending”

free up cash to put toward debt and savings and it's the simplest way to make a plan for your money before the month begins so no more wondering where your money's going you're telling it where to go download every dollar in the app store or google play and start for free today

give to you as the world gives do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid

“Babe Ruth said never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game”

Breonna is with us in su fall south Dakota hi Breonna how are you I'm Dad how are you better than I deserve what's up um I'm wondering if I should get a work from home job I am a mom of three under two and we're going under every time we get paid oh my goodness you have twins no I just had a baby he's three months I just bought three months old oh wow okay so how much is the new job work from home is gonna pay um I don't know I'd have to see and find one

I guess um I did look into and I'd have to make at least three thousand a month for it to be worth it

because right now we are on like snap and wick and Medicaid so I'd have to be able to make enough to cover all of that what is your husband mate um he makes roughly forty three after taxes okay and we're about thirty four thousand in debt what does he do he is a brick layer he works for the union so with forty three thousand dollar income you qualify for every part of welfare I didn't run I didn't know that yes through the window is when we

qualify we're just getting out of the window because like we went through about two or three months

where the next amount of money that we made was maybe 800 for that whole month so we qualified for

all of that to break in my kid you call but when in the summer when he's working you don't qualify yes yeah okay that makes more sense now I'm now I'm tracking with you all right so he makes a lot more in the summer like a bazillion times right so I'm the longest he's been doing that he's been with the same company for about five years now six years maybe

“so I think I started working yeah my first piece of advice for you all will be to pan back”

from this and say um where a young couple with three children and we're gonna have to make some overall decisions about his career that allow us to feed our children without the government doing it so what is he going to do in the winter when he's not laying brick in other words um we've gotten by by God's grace at this point no you got Baba Snap because he wasn't working in the winter so he needs to be working in the winter

that's my point is he not doing anything in the winter yep uh he'll do side jobs yeah but he didn't not enough have anything this winter yeah he needs me making a thousand books a month somewhere I mean thousand bucks a week you know do you mean in the winter we have tables and what are we going to be doing when we're 44 because this plan's not real good yep it's leaving your family very vulnerable are you stress I don't know how you're going to

work at home with three kids under two and get any work done yeah are you did you have a career

“before uh yes I actually that's why we have we have about 12,000 in student loans because”

I was a medical assistant okay but you're saying with daycare for three to three under two it's that's the most priciest age to put them in daycare it's what your saying it just is not making sense from a yeah you can't go out of the work plan I understand that I don't have a problem with that assessment but I really want you guys to visit this instead of just going and saying our plan that that we didn't have a plan was him he's a brick layer and he doesn't

work much in the winter and we keep having babies this is not a plan it's it's but you guys it's painted you into a corner in your life is not fun and so I want I want good things for you guys and it's going to involve him making some changes and views on his income what's he going to be doing in the next five years that doubles as income or in the next 10 years that doubles as income and that then that sustains his family through the winter he needs to be asking himself

conversation so part of your debt is the student loan debt what's the rest of it um seven

“teenagers in truck loans and then you have 4,000 in a personal that got a few one winter and then”

roughly about 16 in medical fellow that's in collections and then we owe family about 1000 okay I'm gonna I'm gonna be mean are you ready I am I'm gonna say you're gonna sell the truck now I'm gonna say it worse than that okay you do not get to own a 17,000 dollar truck when you're taking welfare to pay for your kids food I agree that is not okay my husband is that decision three years ago this truck has eaten us alive since we got it and this truck's got to go everything

it's got to go yeah the only so I'm gonna I guess and then if this is gonna be the thing

I've been telling him that we have to get rid of it as well but if we only get about 10 grams for it we're

still gonna have to pay that seven out right when we sell the truck and we don't have any savings at all yeah you'll be borrowing it from the place that has the truck loan to cover the difference and I bet you can get more than that for it if you sell that private sale um but he's been looking up trade in and looking up what some what Carvano will give him for it and that's nothing compared what he can actually get for it a good working truck will bring a lot of money and Sioux Falls South

Dakota okay and so he can get a lot more than 10 for it and you're gonna have you probably are in the hole so I'm not arguing at that point you're having to borrow a little money to cover that hole but a lot rather be $45,000 in death than 17 and again I'm a dress and head on the decision making paradigm that you guys are using to run your life and what you're doing you're going I'm gonna do this over here I'm gonna do this over here I'm gonna do this over here

but when you tie those three things together they're not logical anymore and it's it's creating pain for you guys and I don't want that for you I want you to win well and you want to make sure your money habits and decisions kind of where you're saying regardless of what happens are steady meaning that before they had kids she was working as a medical assistant he's a bricklayer you know seasonally I'm sure they were fine right like his seasonal work and her they could just

make it and then you pull her out of the workforce with three babies and suddenly your paradigm has to shift to your point you can't you like it's a lot of don't you can't have that yeah you cannot continue to do what you've been doing and I'm talking to him um yeah what you did three years ago meaning your truck your choice is on restaurants I mean like all of it all changes because your life has changed and your choice is on side jobs in the winter and uh and or an

overall career change over the next five years that causes your family to be able to stay alive and so yeah they get you to suddenly I mean the manual side of the trades is wonderful

is amazing and so there's a lot of opportunities there are a lot better and 40 grand a year yeah

and so um but yeah don't get stuck in what I'm doing is okay when what I'm doing is not okay that's the thing and uh and I'm not hollering at you I'm not hollering at him for that matter but um you know when he was buying himself and wasn't married and he was laying brick and he had a little downtime in the winter he broke it out but now he's got responsibilities and um and I'm bringing I don't even know how you're coherent yeah my key in sentence of the three month

fold and two taught I mean two babies like that's like you guys you have a lot on your plates and

“honestly if you were just a full-time mom taking care of the household making sure those babies are”

alive at the end of the day right I mean like that's a full-time job so I understand the money needs to happen and and I hope that yeah there's a good situation that you can bring in some but I mean honestly call me old school but I'm leaning on on him dude yeah it's a work it's a work I got three babies at home that I'm taking care of yeah it's no joke and it's not just it's not that he's not working hard now but it's get to work in a way that it brings in the month money to

kicker your family and get trucks old dude yeah but when you bring eight hundred dollars home a month I don't get trucks old then you get to work yeah you got to get you got to get some stuff going here and get you 5,000 or crock that's the thing. Call us back for you on if you guys need a name we are hang on for 100 copies of total money makeover and get you on every dollar and try to help you if we can. That puts us out of the ramsy show in the books we'll be back with you before

“you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's”

to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.