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“>> Normal is broke, common sense is weird.”

So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey Show. On Dave Ramsey's host, Dr. John Deloni, Ramsey Personality No. 1 best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloni Show, is my co-host today.

Open phones here at AAA 8255-225. Ryan is in Wake Forest, North Carolina. Hey, Ryan, what's up? >> Hi, Dave, how are you doing today? >> Better than I deserve, what's up?

>> I'm in. Well, I'm calling because I'm a single mom of two, and I'll also take care of my mom. And my question today is about how do I manage paying off debt,

while I'm still incurring medical expenses from both her,

and I also have a daughter who was hospitalized, and she's got ongoing medical care that's needed as well. >> Okay. >> So you have health insurance, I assume? >> I have health insurance, but we have, and yes,

“and we've come, we've maxed out the deductible,”

and we're getting close to maximum, maxing out the out-of-pocket expenses as well too, but even that deductible is high, 'cause you have a high deductible insurance plan. >> Mm-hmm.

>> Okay, and so what do you make a year? >> One, well, in total, one-sixthing. >> Okay, and how high is your deductible? >> It's 5,000. >> And what's your max out-of-pocket?

>> Another $4,000. >> Okay, so $9,000 does not break you if you make one-sixthing, I'm confused. >> It doesn't break me, but I'm also, I've got other expenses that I'm trying to pay off as well.

>> Okay, there's not saying, you know, I mean, if you have medical bills that are ongoing, that exceed the $9,000, what would they be? >> They exceed the $9,000, it would be, so for my daughter, she's, I don't want to say too much,

but some of that medical expenses that are going to be ongoing for the unsustainable future. >> So she's got a problem, she's got a chronic issue of some kind. >> Yes.

>> Okay, but above the $9,000, do you come out of pocket for that situation? >> I'm sure because it's all fairly new. >> Well, it shouldn't be happening. >> So there's something that they cover

and some things that they don't. >> Unless you're, unless you're trying to get a treatment that your insurance company doesn't cover, the $9,000 should be the end of it. Now, okay, so you keep,

I'm a little bit confused with the way you're using the words on pay off your bills. You pay your monthly bills, you pay your electricity, you pay your water, you pay, you buy food. >> Don't worry, yeah.

>> You buy food. >> Yeah, sorry, I should've said that. >> Okay, and then how much debt do you have? >> So I've got a 20K and a core and 3K on a credit card, and then a 190 mortgage.

>> Okay, good, good. None of that's out of line. >> And part of that is, you know, and part of that is an AT loan. So about 55 of that, 190 is the AT loan.

>> You mean, like a second, like an AT loan?

A whole microwave? >> A whole microwave. >> Okay. >> Okay, all right. And so you've got two house payments,

a car payment and some credit cards, and you've got some ongoing medical bills with your daughter's chronic issues, and you make 160. >> Right.

>> Okay. >> And then there's my mother as well, but. >> Okay, and what are you having to pay for her? >> Personal, so nurse, so she's got physical mobility, and so we're trying to pay a nurse to help take care of her.

“>> And does she have income coming in to this situation?”

>> She's got social security, but it's not a lot. Like, 1250 and under bucks, what? >> Yeah, somewhere around there. >> Okay, and what's the nurse cost? >> About 25 to, well, depending on how much it's worth her has, 25 it up,

an hour. >> Okay, but I mean, in a month, what are you spending on a nurse? >> So we have it, we just kind of use some part time for now, but I mean, what are you spending on a nurse in a month? >> It's so about a thousand.

>> And your mom brings in 1,200. >> Okay, so we covered that. >> But it will go up, yeah. >> Yeah, but I mean, for now, that's covered in the last two months, you're trying to figure out why you weren't paying your bills,

able to pay your bills, and that's pay extra on your debt,

We're going, okay, because I still haven't found where it's going.

So it sounds like that you are a warrior princess, working very hard, and you've got the emotional drain of your mom not doing well and your child with a chronic illness, and because you're not running with a full gas tank, it's hard for you to not let all this just become chaotic, and so the bills, and in an emotional bucket,

the bills have become chaos, and instead of, if you didn't have it, all this other stuff you were carrying, you're obviously a bright woman, you would just sit down and make a list of this, and start paying it because the math tells me that this is doable.

“But I think what's happening is you're just overwhelmed.”

Does that sound right? That's true, that's true, I am overwhelmed, but it's more than that.

It's that I feel like, because I was in baby step number four,

and now I feel like I'm calling back today, this step number two, because of the debt that keeps in. No, you went and bought a car and put yourself in baby step two. And we pulled out your credit card and you used it. Yeah, because I had to buy one because there were a lot of other expenses that,

you know, unforeseeable, unforeseeable, unforeseeable. You got a lot of half cents in your pocket. When I went out, well, I mean, it was an H-Rex system that went out, and the car, I had another car, but it had over 250,000 miles on it, and I had just spent 3,000 to get it fixed and now it needs another 3,000.

But you made the decision, put yourself back in this mess. You're going to be all the reasons, but you're still dead.

The owner, it don't hear ownership as a character judgment or some sort of moral failure.

It's own owning, I took step A, being like, the world happened to me, and I chose this path, not this path, and it hurts. And it hurts. Yeah, and sometimes you find yourself at a crossroads where any path you take is going to hurt. But in that case, and that's most of us, right?

When that happens, I'm going to take the path that's going to hurt, but you're going to get me to where I want to be. Yeah, so you got to get back on a budget. Yeah, hardcore, beans and rice, rice and beans, and no more rationalization, pulling out the credit card,

or I had to have a car in 350,000. I don't give a crap, you don't go in to that again, period, period. Because then you end up strapped again, back here. So, nothing you have today can't be cleared up. The 20,000 dollar car can be cleared up.

The 3,000 dollar credit card can be cleared up. And you can get back on the road, but you're going to have to get above the chaos and make these monkeys all dance, because you're in the middle of a circus. And so, you're just monkeys run right there,

and you're not to teach on how to get in the line and how to dance. And that's called a budget, and you crack the whip on the money monster and make it behave. Money is a fabulous slave, it's a horrible master. And it's mastering you right now. It's adding to this anxiety of being overwhelmed.

You feel overwhelmed with money, with your child, with your mom. And so, this is an area you actually can control. The line that I was trained with that was really helpful for me when I entered into chaotic situations or facts or your friends. When everything feels like it's done put on your head,

“what are the facts here? How much am I spending on nursing? How much am I spending on food?”

How much am I spending on this car? And what can I do to get out of this mess following the facts path here? Because the emotions are big, and that's right for them to be big. The path out here is what's the next right move. Hey guys, George Campbell here. There are a lot of things you probably shouldn't ignore.

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Danies and Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Danie, what's up? Hi there. It's me, Dr. Duaged. My question was, I'm in baby step number two. I am actually recently engaged and I'm super excited about that. And we're putting a wedding for May of 2027. And I was wondering how you would help or how you would balance trying to pay off debt and finance a wedding as well as a honeymoon without

going into further debt. That's a good, that's a good first go. Congratulations. So, um,

“thank you. What do you make and what does she make?”

Yes, um, I am a full-time pastor and a part-time life guard and I make roughly about $45,000 a year. What does she make? She is a, um, yes, she is a welder. She's new in her career. She's currently making about $18 an hour. And she's looking to join the union. And she wants you, if she's able to do that, she'll be able to make roughly 25 to 30 bucks at hours starting out. Okay. And she just started the welding career because that's very low.

Yeah. So, she just graduated from trade school and she currently working full-time for a local

organization. Yeah. Well, she's being dramatically underpaid. Oh, like half of what she, me paid in welding right now. There's a shortage of welders that have gone, that know how to actually, you know, lay a bead down. And so, I don't know who got her this job, but they screwed her over. So, she, I mean, she can make this at, at a target stack in boxes without any education. I just paid the welders to do some work in my house brother and it was way, way more than what

she's getting paid. Wait, I'm smiling. I can't believe that. Yeah. So anyway, that's the thing one. Now, how much debt do you have? I've been on baby's debt number two for a couple of years.

“I have a milk consumer debt right now. The only thing I have is federal student loans.”

That's concern for that. How much is your student loan? I was an idiot. And I took out a lot. And I've currently got it down to about $90,000. Okay. And how much debt does she have? Absolutely zero. She's been a follower of the days. It's Ramsey Plan X11 16. Okay. All right. And so, what are you two planning to spend on the wedding? What's your budget that you came up with as you're going to spend on the wedding? Well, we wanted to even keep it small. And so,

we're looking at somewhere between three to $4,000 for the wedding. And then we wanted to take a two week vacation to somewhere in Texas or making an island or something. And so, we're looking at probably about two to $3,000 to do that. Okay. So, you need $6,000 by May. Give her a take. Yes, sir. Okay. That's $500 a month for a year. Yes, sir. So, 600 bucks a month in your monthly budget. Our 300 in your budget, 300 in her budget,

goes into the wedding account. And then you work on your debt. Yes, sir. Unfortunately, that would be almost everything. I'm chunked at my debt right now. Okay. So, you need a better extra job. Your extra job doesn't do well. Or, and I don't want to give a controversial statement here. But you might not be able to do this ministry job of $45,000 because of previous decisions you made in your life to go six figures in the student loan debt. A lot of ministers as a matter of fact,

somewhere around 80% of pastors today are by vocational, meaning they have a full-time job in addition to being a preacher. Yes, sir. And I do work full-time as a pastor. And, you know, I work about 20, 25 hours of the lifeguard and some instructors in my local Lyon CA. Yeah. I find both of those to be really impactful for our community and not impactful enough on the $90,000. Yeah. And you're going to burn yourself out. You're not going to be there for your community in five years because you're

“going to be completely cooked. Yeah. You need to go make some money so that you, so that you can”

remain in the work of the Lord. Because, you know, your lifeguard thinks some of volunteer. I mean, you're not making any money there. And so, you really, I mean, you do what you want to do. But you

called us. And when you do that, you're always going to get our opinion because we're like an expert

on our opinion. So, you know, I think you have an income problem. And you've got a slight outgo problem.

be putting some money aside to the wedding. But you have a $6,000 goal by May and the two of you

sit down and go, okay? Maybe she's putting in four of your putting in two. I don't care. But both of you have some career adjusting to do. Neither one of you are living up to your potential income producing right now. And income and money is not everything. But it does give you options.

“And you don't have any options. Your handcuffed. I'm all about somebody deciding, you know what?”

I don't want to do this thing anymore. I want to go make a quarter of my quote unquote market value whatever that is. And I want to just be here for my community. I love that idea. But if you've dug yourself in 90,000, $120,000 whole, you gave up that option. Until you did that, you feel that whole backup. So, the fastest way to fill that whole backup and get back even on even ground is to go work a whole bunch of jobs. And even do jobs that you might not think have impact, which I would

argue with you in a different phone call. I think everybody who interacts other people has an opportunity to impact people in a positive way. Whether you're at fast food restaurant or a delivery person or whatever. But you gave up that right when you dug up those holes. I mean, when you dug yourself that big hole, you got to fill that sucker up. And that means you got to go get one job, two jobs. You may have to step away from your church for a season and go make a whole bunch of

my doing something that you quote unquote don't feel called to do. But I got to clean up this mess so that I'm here in the long haul to be here for my family, for my community, for whatever I believe my my faith is calling me to and all that kind of stuff. Yep, that's exactly how it works. So again, we support pastors, we work with churches on across America and we have for 30 years. And so we've got a huge heart for people that want to serve in that way and in that role. But you don't just because

“it's, you don't get a pass on the math. That's it. You got you have to address the math.”

And so in order to be able to stay in that kind of a role. And that's what we're looking for. Jessica's in Springfield, Missouri. Hi Jessica. How are you? How are you? Better than I deserve. You're breaking up. Can you speak directly into your phone? Yes, it's better. Yes, man, let's better. Yeah. All right. My question is whether it's a debate between me and my husband. Yes, we'll solve it. We'll solve it. Fantastic. So the question is whether or not he's being spoiled

or if I'm being miserly. And it's related to cards. Okay. Both of you probably, but anyway, yeah. Both of us probably. So we have three aging cars and they're all doing fine right now. But we imagine that his commuter vehicle will be the first that needs to be replaced. Maybe in a year or so.

“The question is that he has bought several new cars in his lifetime. And that's what he would”

like to do again. And I disagree. I've never bought a new car and I don't see any reason, too.

Okay. We I suppose I suppose we're in babysept seven. We're free and clear. What's your net worth? Probably about five and a half thousand. We're not millionaires. Five and a half thousand. I'm sorry. Five hundred thousand. You're a half a millionaires. Okay. Half a millionaires. Okay. We have the money to purchase a new vehicle brand you if we wanted to. I just don't really see the reason. So he says that after COVID happened, that depreciation on cars isn't what it used to be. He's wrong.

I would call it a clean wrong. Mathematically arithmetic says he's wrong. Okay. So you can study it for 35 seconds. I'm going to go and you'll figure this out. I mean, it doesn't take it. You know, jump around and look. Look at a new car that was issued in a 23 model and see what at the MSRP on it was manufacturer suggested retail price. And then see what that 23 is selling for today. And it is not up. It's down. And it's down dramatically. And sorry. But the Fauci pandemic didn't

help with that. And so I would agree. Yeah. You win. And we tell people not to buy brand new cars

because they go down so fast and value until you have at least a million dollars in that

worth because they go down so fast and value. And we don't we want you to build wealth not screwed up. So you win you win and you win. ? Here's something that keeps a lot of parents up at night. Kids are

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Here's what's weird. I went to a thing when I was 22 years old and the guy put a compound

interest on the table on the board rather. And he showed us the way compound interest works. $100 a month. And I heard this 44 years ago. Okay. $100 a month invested from age 25 to age 65. And a decent growth stock mutual fund at market rates of return is $1,176,000.

“See, I think you should not be able to get out of high school until you know that equation.”

Because it would stop all the stupid socialism stuff. Because you went, all I need is $100 a month. And I can live with a billion air. You know, from age 25 to age 65, age 22, age 22, age 22, age 20 to age 60 out of care. Which 40 years you want to pick it out. You can wait a 40 and do it at 80 if you want. But I wouldn't recommend it. See, anyone can become a millionaire. It's not that complicated.

George and I are doing an in-depth nerd dive. I don't know exactly what an in-depth nerd dive means. But look that one up. We listen to you talk. We know what it means. We know what it means.

At investing essentials. This is the third time I've ever done this event.

And it's our two-night virtual event next week. It's the only place I unpack my entire playbook on investing. Why I do what I do. Why I don't do what I don't do. Including exact formulas and details on how I pick real estate. Why how I decide whether I'm going to keep it or not. All new content. We're also going into some wealth planning a little bit of a state planning looking at that. God in case you're having trouble sleeping. Come watch this event.

It will put you right out. Yeah. Tuesday and Wednesday evening during a sale from the comfort of your own recliner. And I'm kidding. Take a start at 199 get yours at RamseySolutions.com/events or click the link if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. There's got John. There's like 700,000 people have signed over this thing. That's crazy. It's going to be like a lot of people sleeping. But yeah. Now we're going to go into the details. We're going to give it. It's just, I mean, we've taken the material we did last year.

Sadly, we've added a bunch to it. So it's actually not going to be two nights of two hours. Brace yourself. It'll be longer than two hours because we're just not going to be able to cover everything we wrote. And we want to do it all. So we're going to do it. There we go. Hey, it's going to be a lot. If you want a lot, you can get it next Tuesday and Wednesday. The investing essentials, two night virtual amount with George and Mesa. Well, let me say this.

“I think this is important for a big reason that we don't talk about here in the building.”

I'm not embarrassed to say this. This is just truth. I, I knew you when I joined this team. I knew you had this show and I knew you had this message and I knew you've been consistent with your message. I don't know how nice way to say this. I didn't know you were as smart as you are or maybe a better way to say that is I didn't realize the level of intentionality with which you made decisions. And even in the last five or six years, the way all of our

interactions are chopped up and edited and put on clips and then people respond to clips. However, I can imagine there is millions of people who see you and hear you say a few things and this is an opportunity for them to really understand why you do what you do. Not only why you teach people, but there's why you do this in your own house and that to me makes this thing a

Cecilia's in Orlando. Hi, Cecilia. What's up?

“Hi, how's it going today? Better than wait a minute. How can we help?”

Lovely. Um, so I'm about to get married. Yay. Yeah, and I just got myself out of debt and I'm going to marry into a lot of debt. Good. My husband has just been tricked. And so I'm trying to figure out I know once we get married, I'm going to help him with getting out. We've already started the R&D program for him. Well, good. Yeah, and it's going pretty good, but once we get him out of debt,

he's going to keep spending cash on me. Um, but how do I go about saving money and not putting it all forward to spend for its ways? How old are you guys? 51. Awesome. It's real. Very cool. Very cool. Well, um, congratulations. I think you're going to have a great marriage. Opposite. We will. We can get it a long time. Opposite's attract in good marriages. Spenders

“attract savers. And that's a good thing because, say, Spenders need a saver that way they don't have”

to retire and eat dog food, right? True. And savers savers need a spender in their life. So they have a life. Very true. He's he's the fun guy. You're not. I'm not. I like my book. And he's there to help you have fun. So I'm the spender at my house, oddly enough, and even though I teach this stuff, my wife is the natural saver. And so her natural tendency, if there's a, if there's any kind of emotion involved, and it is to draw back and save.

If, in my case, I'm an abundance guy. She's a scarcity gal. And so I always figure I can get more

money. So I'm going to go do it. And so, but we need each other to create wisdom in the middle. And wisdom is that we, we need to spend money on having a good life that we both are in agreement on. That's wisdom. We need to save and invest to create a quality future for us and our kids and our dogs and our cats. That's wisdom. And we need to be generous. And we need to be doing all of these things together. So you're going to have to, you're job when you guys are sitting and looking at the

budget is to allow some fun to be in the budget. And also make sure your savings is in there. His job is to allow some savings to be in the budget and make sure that his fun is in the budget. Because, because listen, Cecilia. And then when it's all written down, you just go do it. And there's no guilt. Because if, if that's not the case, what you're telling me is a far more concerning thing. And that is, you sat down with this man that's about to be your husband.

And you said, I'm uncomfortable with how you recklessly spend money. And he looked at his future wife and said, I don't care what you think. I don't care what you feel. I'm going to do what I want to do. And he didn't say that. He said, okay, let's get on a plan. Is that fair? No, we're on the plan. We have weekly budget meetings now. He just literally handed it all over. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You are not as mother. You're as wife.

No, but why, and we do have our budget meetings. And he does have input. And I adjust to complete. But right now, we're paying off his debt. Good. Awesome. So there's not a lot of wiggle.

“Oh, great. Yeah, you don't need to wiggle. You need to pay off of that. I completely agree.”

But I don't want him emotionally turning this over. The two of you, like 251 freaking year old grownups are making grownup decisions together. Because it's good for our future. He's saying, I agree with Cecilia. I need to clean this up. And so the two of us are going to work on that together. That's an adult decision. Mommy, take my bills and pay them for me. Is not what we want in a husband. Oh, no, no, that we don't play. Okay.

And Cecilia, if you all bid together for a while, and he sat down and said, I want to marry you. And I'm going to change the way I'm doing things. I'm going to take this Dave Ramsey course. I am going to fall these baby stuff things. I'm going to do a weekly budget meeting. He loves you. But you showing up every meeting and going, well, he's just going to go spend it. Like generally speaking, a husband will rise to their wife's level of belief in them.

Give what I'm saying.

There. Yeah. And if he's put in the work in, however clumsy and awkward it is, he's never done this in half a

century, you you seeing him do the next right thing, however uncomfortable it is or whatever, and you believing in him, man, that goes a long, long way. So I'll just fast forward. I mean, 28 years old, almost 40 years ago, we lost everything because of my stupidity borrowing too much money

So, but that's not the same Dave today that's on the microphone. And Sharon will tell you, thank God I'm not still married to the same guy I married originally. Yes. He has grown and so while my tendency is to spend the spending that we do at the Ramsey house is very much within the wisdom guidelines. And even it might make her a little bit uncomfortable sometimes and it makes me happy. Then, but still, it's nowhere near where it was. It's intentional. I can still have my tendency

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“Lucas in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hey Luke. What's up? Hello. What's up? How can we help?”

I was just wondering, might seem to be why if it's starting college, if she just started college,

and she has enough for first semester's tuition. And I was just wondering if after that we should

take out student loans to cover until she gets her job after school or if we should just pay it off and just live pretty tight for the next three years. How old are you guys? I just turned 20. She just turned 18. What's she studying in college? Medical imaging. So she wants to be a rad tech. So she'll be making pretty good money coming out. So a two-year program and she'll be making 50?

“Now it's a four-year program, I think. Really? And for medical imaging? Yeah. Yeah, she,”

while she was doing extra stuff like there's more classes she can take to make more starting off. Maybe. She's 18. Where did we get this information about this career?

Uh, for a couple of second cousin does it for a living?

Okay, you know how scary that sounds when you say that. Yeah, when you do what you said that. I'll fuck, fuck, fuck it up pretty good, Luke. Okay, I want you and her to go to the hospital and talk to the hospital administrator and find out what they're paying. And does it require a four-year degree? That's the first thing. Okay, because if we're going to study the purpose of studying the primary

purpose of studying, especially when we're broke people, is to create an opportunity in the market place that we can make more money. Otherwise, you could just go take a job at Target, right? And so if we're going to make $18 an hour after going for four years, then we don't need to go get that degree. That's a dumb degree. Okay, or if you get a degree in left-handed puppetry or some kind of bull crap degree, you know, you're going to

“end up being a barista. So, um, you know, so you need to really study what this is before you”

invest four years of your time and life into it much less four years of money. And so that's thing

here some friend or relative and they tricked you. Because we're really kind of known Luke

for telling people to never take out a student loan for anything. Right. And you asked that question

with great honesty and it tells me that you probably have not listened to this show a lot. I'm pretty new listener. Yeah. It was just, uh, like, currently I don't have the money,

“but I'd be like, I'd be able to save up. No, you asked me if you should borrow a student loan. That tells”

me that you don't know much about what we do. Because 100% of the time we yell at people for taking a student loan. Okay. No. Under no circumstances do you take out a student loan? Yes. You investigate what is required for her to her to go into this field of study if she really wants this career or if she just thought it was a way to make money because her cousin said to which cares that crap out of me. But I really wanted to pick out what she wants to be in life and then what education

does it take to do that? So we do not borrow money on student loans. The statistics are horrendous. 100% of the people that take out a student loan have a student loan. Only 57% of the people that start college finish. Okay. That's not even half. That's how bad colleges are. I agree. I decided to skip college and go straight into workforce because I've been bleeding. Yeah. Well, and look, what we don't want to have happen, we don't want you to be in the situation where

two years into this four-year degree. You all have racked up $30,000 in student loans. And then she comes home with what should be the greatest news of your life. I'm pregnant. And now she's got she's going to decide to stop going to school or she can't do this imaging program because she's pregnant and so she's got to do something else. That student loan payment is still due.

“And so that's what happens in real life. Yeah. So I was 18. I was 19. I was 20. I was 21.”

Do we had crazy roommates? I lived in some of the wildest living situations. I still took us two in loans like a goofball, but like yes, y'all are scratching and clawing. Y'all are eating, having me y'all eating below any sandwiches and rice and beans. Yes, y'all are just going to

scratch and claw and by the way, y'all could end up with a pretty amazing marriage together,

figuring out ways to solve these problems without borrowing money, because y'all are in this thing together. Yeah. So that's, it could be a cool thing three or four years down the road. Let's verify that this is the proper path to get where you want to go. Let's verify that it is where we want to go and then let's figure out the least expensive way to do it in pay cash for it. Those are the three things we would tell you to do coming out of this. I'm also going to send

her a copy again called book Finding the Work Your Wired To Do, because I wanted to spend some time thinking about who she is, because we wanted to decide if we stay on this track or not. So John a thousand years ago when I was a kid, there was a the grandfather of the, maybe the great grandfather of the motivational speaking movement was a guy named Earl Nightingale, and Earl famously says, and with his deep baritone voice, Americans spend more time picking

out a suit of clothes than they do their career. How'd you get that job? My buddy went over there and got it, he said, "My cousin did it." That's not how you pick your career. You look in the mirror and say, "What did God design here? How am I designed? What is it I'm supposed to do?" And then with my natural giftings and talents, what kind of sharpening can I do called education and tools added in my belt called education to help me do what it is that I'm put together when I was

knit in my mother's womb according to Isaiah. What was I put when God was knitting me together with a DNA RNA double helix and a knitting needle? What was he making? And what am I supposed

“to do? You need to think about that more than you think about the perch you pick out or the suit”

you pick out. No way about the suit anymore, but that you buy. Whatever it is, the stuff we spend the time, I fret over what I'm going to buy was a stupid thing. And then we just go take a job because your cousin had it. And that might not be the case with her, but when he said that,

it just went down my spine. Or you're asking even bigger question that I always press on college

students, especially college graduates, kind of life you want to have. And does this job, instead of I want to build a life around this job, is this job in service to the person you want to become, like the life you want to hold? And if you want to help people in this particular job, man, you can do a lot of good for a lot of folks in a lot of different ways. But man,

yeah, or my dad was a doctor, my grandpa was a doctor, so I got to be a doctor. You know what you

are? A miserable dog. Man, I set with a lot of those students solving miserable. I don't want to be here. You know, I don't listen. If you're my dentist and you're a dentist, because your mommy

“wanted you to be a dentist, I don't want to be your patient. No. Yeah, I think that's going to hurt.”

You know, I mean, think about it, guys. You suck at stuff that you do for other people rather than the way you were designed. Right. And so, you know, what is it that you've got natural giftings in and let's lean into that and let's polish it and let's hone the craft to fit, you know, by adding education to the mix. I believe in education, but randomly, I'm going to be a lawyer, because lawyers make money. Not all of them, someone were really pretty

broke. And I've, I've spent several years studying attorneys who got everything they wanted, and they were pretty miserable, because they thought what they wanted was this number or this name on their building or whatever and what, what, what are you looking for in your life? What's

“going to be the score of your life, right? So that's a lot for, that's a lot more than just what”

answering Luke's question, but it just kind of made me think about that deep baritone voice saying America has been more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do with their future careers. Well, and in here's where Luke finds himself. Man, if y'all are young, as I say, 18 and 19 years old getting married, but y'all need right now as some money. And if one of you knows, I want to go into the medical field, I'm going to do this thing. Like you said, go sit down with some people who do

that job for a living and ask how that world works, not just get some salary advice from a second

cousin. Yeah, here's what's weird. They might hire you over there as an assistant to the assistant

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That's CHMministries.org/budget and promo code Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. Anthony is in Canada, hi Anthony, how are you? Hey, Dave, how's it going? Better than I deserve, what's up? I am just asking if I should stay at this one job that I don't really like too much and the job and the pay is not that great or if I should go back to kind of what I was doing beforehand

and I was making better pay but I have been working in that industry for like two years now and ever so often I get into a job and they'd just be pretty much hiring for one their slow and then they lay off like not even six months later but I like that industry. What is the industry? Electrical, I was doing like electrical progress. Okay, well I mean the electric there's not a, I mean that company might get slow

but the coal for electricians does not have been flow that much. Is that like you've bought yourself into a corner brother either or and I would love you to consider 30 other options 27 of which may be dumb but just just to free yourself from it's not

but then they just might lay off at a moment's notice like that yeah those are two not great

options there's there's 300 other options right yeah let's get a job that I pay is more and is stable and you like yeah that's the option I like try yeah I've definitely tried to and just since I've been in that electrical industry for however long it's primarily only electrical businesses that would hire me at I this is why I took the other drop this job I'm currently doing is to get something else on my resume but okay I'm 21 I'm not that old yet

“so when did you get all of these six brands when you were 13?”

No it's just been like the past like two or three years passing yeah sort of yeah I've been to like maybe like five different electrical businesses and they just have been pretty much all the same yeah it was it that they saw someone with a limited resume it's that they saw a 21 year old yeah and this is what then he can do electricity like electrical work and so we're hiring to the electrical work that's all it is it's not you're you're over complicating this and

you're discounting the fact that you're being looked at as a youth and that changes the way they pocket this or bucket this one an employer is looking at you in this situation so I think we would start fresh and I'm going to send you a copy of comments book finding the work you're

wired to do and I want you to pretend like you had never worked in your life and you were brand new

and you just said your dad just said okay you gotta get out of the house go and be free my son and you said okay what am I going to do with my life what do you want to be when you grow up huh what do you want to be when you grow up Anthony you know so I want you to answer that question kind of and start fresh as if you didn't have all this other stuff weighing you down because it's probably going to take you to one of those other three introductions that John's talking about

and then you discover what Henry Cloud causes your culture desired future that might be completely different than anything we're talking about as a matter of fact

“I think it should be and then you say okay what must be true for me to be one of those kinds”

of people making that kind of money oh wait a minute I'm going to have to take a two-year certification program oh I'm going to have to go to trade school oh I'm going to get a four-year degree oh I got to go to good graduate work I don't know whatever it is to be one of those then go do those things to be one of those and at twenty one your chief focus is becoming the most excellent electrician possible and there's going to be some grinding out that happens here like like

they've said it's it's it's stings it's a bummer whatever but mango become the best freaking electrician in your part of in your province there and you will you will be hired you know if the people will want you on their squad exactly show up early leave like work while

you're there take weekend jobs I have a family to take a bath in a smile and they'll never get rid of you

“I mean it's such simple and take Saturday and Sunday jobs it people's homes changing plugs out”

changing light fixtures putting in ceiling fans like become excellent at the craft and the adjacent craftsman and dude I'm telling you's it got it's spent a lot of money electricians recently bro the demand got like first-hand knowledge of welders electricians sure you're a whistle well for none of us helping me out with some home projects but man they are the work they're doing is second to none and they are very proud of it yeah they should be

I like it now so hang on we'll pick up and send you a copy of that book I'm finding the work you're wired to do a good one Dave but of them it is the title the Sullivan is in Las Vegas hey Sullivan what's up better than I deserve how can I help so I'm kind of in a pickle a little bit so my rent went from like 1750 up to like 1950 your wife debating whether to stay here move out we're trying to pay off debt as much as you can

we have like 20 thousand dollars in debt so we're kind of just looking around see if it's better for us to stay or to move into something like cheaper so that's kind of what we're at right now cool was it just the two of you it's me my wife and my two daughters and my sister-in-law oh not just the two of you yeah so you got to have a place that has a lot of bedroom yeah so looking for like a three bedroom but Vegas can be a pretty expensive what's the what's the sister-in-law how's this

play into this oh well she lives in California so she came out to Vegas to stay to live with us to go to college and so my wife and her both going to CSN out here in Las Vegas now she's paying rent

to help her no he's broke um because you're getting ready to go rent a house you wouldn't have rented

“because you have an assistant law tagging along um if you do it it's just you and the two kids you”

might do something completely different so that that enters into this equation so solvent rent is patience patience while you get out of debt and save up money to buy house the less you pay for your patience the faster you get out of debt and save up money to buy a house and so I'm going to take the cheapest possible rent I can because it's for a period of time it's not my way of

doing life it's living like no one else so that later I can buy a house living like no one else

and later I can live like no one else can give like no one else so you get out of debt save your emergency

“fund save your down payment because you have a low rent and then you talk about buying a house and”

as you do that you're credit or clean up because you don't need that and uh and you'll be more and more eligible for that while you're cleaning all this mess up but you're going to have to lean in hard on all that and you don't look at renting as a way of life then we look at as a temporary stop we're camping here till we get our more permanent home that we actually own and um Sharon and I often called it camping although there was no literal camping involved we're going

to camp here for a little while now there's a way of telling our brain this is temporary just just just for a season now notifying my body it's not going to be here long it's going to be somewhere else I'm just camping we're going to camp out here a while . Running a business is hard enough the tools you use to run it should make your job easier too many business owners spend more time fighting their software

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and we are looking to build a home on five acres that my dad gifted to us um so for reference we make about 150,000 gross per year we have 110,000 in savings right now our only debt is 25,000 in student loans but the house we want to build is around 400 to 450,000 dollars but following the 25% rule probably looks like we'd only be able to afford something around 300,000 dollar range so we're just looking for some guidance well you've already got that we told you 300,000 didn't

yeah yeah that's my uh we're both 28 mm okay if you put if you put today if you take 25 of that one 50 you have in payoff your student loans and then you put a hundred grand down

get the loan amount down to closer to like 200,000 for that to work you'll make it combined 150

yeah gross yeah okay well I mean there's a concept that you can do whatever you want to do your grownups and you're allowed to do that but you're calling and asking our advice in the guidelines that we have that we show people how not to be house poor so that they can you know have margin in their budget to invest and to be generous and to buy the next car for cash and to pay cash at Christmas and not have the house own them and so I mean what if you told me that the house you

wanted was 700,000 but you can afford 200 you know you would just say you would use the words that no one uses in America we can't afford it and so you've got to decide what you can afford now there's a couple of other options I mean no one says that in the first year of marriage

“that you should build a home so matter of fact I would probably tell you having built several homes”

this not good for your marriage to build a home in the first year of marriage this is the

opportunity to fight like you have never fought in your life and so you know it's a brand new

tender relationship marriage and you know it's a you know building a homes a lot so a lot of details a lot of decisions and a lot of compromises between the two of you of what color something's going to be or what the thing is going to be and I mean sometimes one of the spouses just says they're not going to be involved in the other one does it but that's not healthy either you both are going to live there you both should speak into what the house is

okay and you both should have a vote and then by the time you do that it's going to be

“strenuous relationally I wouldn't tell people not to build a house in the first year of marriage”

relationally so having said all of that and given that little speech might be okay to just go run an apartment on the other side of town is this land adjacent to your family yeah we have a family farm so we're just kind of getting a chunk of the hat so be good for your wife to not be next door

to her mother and law in the first year of marriage yeah I get that Marcus what you know we

are what you're taking every month it kind of varies because my work is a little seasonal but I pick up some part-time work in the winter time so I don't know it probably varies between eight to ten depending to make more in the summer so yeah and and as your wife work you're fiancee yeah and that one fifty is the total of the two of you yeah yeah and the total take home pay from the two of you would be about what not a hundred percent sure to be honest okay well that would

be a number you would need to have the discussion we're having yeah because I feel like you're

“underselling a bit I feel like you like to get that twenty five percent mark um I think you're close”

I just did some napkin math here on the computer I think you're closer than you think yeah but I also but it's also okay to wait a year also good day of relationally tell your dad like man thank you for these five acres we want to spend one year just figuring it out ourselves having in the woods and we're going to save a little bit more money so you can put more down in there any of you people now I'm serious man that's it'd be great for you and then when you come

over there your marriage is more knit and more matured and when you come over there next door to her mother and law then she can handle it a little better and I know your mother is great but she doesn't know that yet so um they take a while and you're going to have family members to say oh you're going to throw away money and we're not giving you that you're going to vote yeah it's a good season to learn like who gets to speak into what you do next and that's awesome I'm taking a year off

as for me yeah pay off the student loan today stack cash for a year run a cheap apartment you'll build a different house by the way to 100% you'll know each other better after a year and you'll build a better house together spend a year tour in houses to see what you like you like this kitchen you like that bathroom yeah clip you know build a build a Pinterest board with all the things I did as you like and all that kind of stuff and take pieces of a house and you know the

last house we built it was three different houses that we found pieces of and we bolted them together with an architect and made it look right well and even share and explain in parts of the house in the way this new house you'll build like it was a learned experience from another house and back like but

another in other situations yeah you'll build a different home you'll be more happy with now you'll

“do it you'll be somewhat yeah wait a year why do you're in palf student loan that's my advice oh the trick is well you do it”

now that's where it comes down I know we're against polymarket but we should have a polymarket like would they set one of those a word against bedding again but if there was a are they going to do it or not that'd be fun yeah we could just take a like on informal poll with no money on it there we yeah okay yeah we don't have to do go fun me with you know we'll they do it or will they not will they do it thumbs up thumbs down john and Madison was constant hey john how are you

hi I'm good how are you doing better than I deserve how can I help

well let's say I have a question regarding starting a 401k so I have about $50,000 in that $30,000 of those are on student loans and about $20,000 on a car and following the baby steps I'm supposed to start paying down my debt but at 30 years old I'm kind of just getting a little bit oh you're kind of tired you're going to die poor you're so old john you're a thousand you're having time to what about how are you how are you getting around the walker if you got a wheelchair

yeah you're so staking young don't worry about being old you're not panicking at 30 years old

“you need to get your butt out of debt and follow the baby step yeah you're good really hey so just”

you're not on the 401k yeah it's not fairly but I want you to get paid down yeah but I want you to get after it man when we'll keep us debt around for four years like it's a pet it's just what did you say it was 50 grand 50 grand 60 grand what do you make um you might want to combine income at the bottom 75 or a year so pay it off in a year one year dude okay so one year thousand dollars a month in your budget um your margin at the bottom four to five thousand per month

done well cut something else out I want to be six thousand then be done in ten months just be done with it and then then this is not a question you're a whole 31 years old when you

“start your 401k but just trying to do six things it wants is how people do nothing and by the way”

you'll have five thousand dollars a month to invest to do whatever you want to with once you get really stupid debt changes your life man attack it like it's a disease because it is , this show is sponsored by better help hey it's Deloni listen better help just released their annual state of stigma reports full of tons of data about why so many people avoid getting help for their mental and emotional health challenges here is one data

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a front to don't belong to delony today's question comes from dianna in wash it's in dc since my husband and i've gotten married we've justified certain purchases by saying quote it's an investment for example two thousand dollars worth of high quality business suits that would last for many years as we started listening the ramsy show we can begin to suspect that we aren't using the term it's an investment in the right way correct is it ever appropriate to refer to a purchase as a

quote unquote investment even if we don't expect it to generate an income or profit if not how

should we be thinking about purchases like these to decide if they're right for us it's never an investment

“it's wise consumption who good line or it's unwise consumption one of the two but i really think”

my guitars in my hunting gear in my gym those are investments yeah i mean the thing is this there's a couple things when i first start teaching this stuff people start throwing all these sayings at me and they're all pretty good stuff like you know rich people ask cow mugs poor people ask how much down how much a month okay wise people buy an expensive item rich people do that will last twenty years and poor people unwise people buy a cheap item that feels good right now

and last twenty minutes and so it's kind of like we're teaching the kid they're buying a toy

and you're going that toy's gonna break by the end of the week or you can buy this item this

toy and it's gonna last it's built it's a good you know it's a tanka truck right it's gonna last generationally i got tanka trucks at three generations now so you know that kind of stuff so you know what what is a wise purchase and and so you know you buy a quality thanks on an example would be i would suggest you buy a a two-year-old high quality automobile instead of a brand new dodge neon right which is going to be crap by Friday because it was crap when you bought it on

Monday and so you know i mean that but that's the difference in a wealthy mentality and a poor mentality i'm gonna i just want something shiny and new even if it's cheap in quality and won't

“last in a her case she's talking about that that's what Diana's talking about is a quality biz”

a quality suit it's gonna last you it's a timeless cut and material it's not a high fashion item that's going to be a fat item but that you can wear that forever um i wear on media and oftentimes on stage i'll wear a black blazer okay and i don't know the tie anymore i got out of that business but um i've got three or four of those that i paid a lot of money for and i think they're approaching ten years old now um and they you know they're hanging in the closet here they're hanging in

closet the house and so um you know backstage at the events center so if i need one i got the exact same cut custom made high quality item you know and so it travels well because it's not going to water up and you know it's a you know so it's a good that's but that's not an investment because i can't turn around and sell it at a profit and that's the difference in the best yes it goes up and the investment's going to pay you money out and or go up in value and you can resell it and clothing

definitely don't qualify just ask the people at the consignment sale and so yeah that that but it but you can call it a wise consumption and uh it's a good it's an interesting question and i what i do love about her question is is the words do matter yes they they give your brain signals because if you call it an investment rather than wise consumption it gives your permission to double down well and that's where the i get called out because i've used the phrase oh this is really an

investment over and over in my life and it's just been a bad justification for i really want this thing and i want to get the nicest version of this thing yeah and so if i call it an investment for whatever reason it makes it okay instead of having the courage to say you know what i just want this and i've saved up for it and me wanting this is enough yeah and i don't need all this other

“baggage to to justify for myself exactly i i want a nice thing i i think i quit using one of the”

times i learned and not used this so i was 26 years old i was making a lot of money in the real state business and before i went broke and i bought a Jaguar which i grew up in a neighborhood where they couldn't spell Jaguar so um much less even knew what one was so it was a very impressive to me that i had a Jaguar i thought it was you know PA right so i rolled up at my grandpa's house and my grandpa ramsie was a scotsman he was a classic grandpa i mean pull the crooked nails out of the

board straighten him out and put him in a coffee came on grandpa you know this grandpa right and he never

never threw away anything everything just a child of the great depression worked 38 years for alcohol and i'm saved every dollar he ever had never invested any of it just saved it and just

and i think i'm a really cool 26 year old and he said what is that i said it's a Jaguar grandpa

“he said wow so fine look at automobile he said what that cost and i think at the time it was like”

35,000 bucks or something which for today would be 150 yeah yeah bucks right and i said 35,000

dollars he goes oh my god i've never spent that on a car so that is a fine car so well grandpa

it's it's a great car it's it's a great investment and he said really it's amazing he said so in 10 years well that car be worth and i said problem over and he said well honey my investment's go up but that's the it's the same thing right it says same mentality now that car if i had paid cash for it and wasn't leverage to my eyeballs and getting ready to go broken real estate business trying to appear to be something i'm not which is the case in that situation totally shallow as i could

be right i mean classic classic putting on the pose but if i if i had paid cash for the car and i had the wealth i still should not have used the phrase it's an investment right it's consumption that i can afford and then i was wise consumption and i like it and that's an okay answer at least then i wasn't trying to defend it as if it was going up and value which is wrong what he called me on but that that's the thing if it's not going up in value and you can't

turn around resell it or you don't propose it's going to go up in value then you're not it's not an investment so we bought a boat and it's an investment in our family no it's consumption for your family it's not an investment boats do not go up in value none of them two best days of your life day you buy boat the day you sell it right that's the old saying now i don't know that because i'm

never sold my boat no i've i've sold them got a better one but yeah so i'm still a boat guy i'm

not against boats but the point being don't we're investing in our children by taking them to Disney no you're consuming an experience and your value is that you want to spend money on experiences rather than other things okay that's fine just a quick acting like it's something it's not

“right and that's what she's calling out wisely here yeah i like that that's a good discussion”

words matter out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks so you know make sure your hearts aligned on this okay we're consuming this money we can afford it it's a wise consumption it's a reasonable purchase given our situation but we're not going to call it something it's not which is an investment oh that's so good it all you'd say this the the baggage that i brought to it man it took me a while to unpack this i'll probably unpack this rest of my life

is that all underlying i'm not worth that or guys like me don't play guitars like that i haven't

earned that i'll never like that's people who buy that you're acting like it's gonna go up in

value because that makes it okay because you're not worth you're not worth doing it for you that's it and for me taking our taking ownership of i want this my wife and i have agreed on it and it's okay if i get it it's okay yeah and and it checks it's a part of our life rhythm right that's good i like but that's that was for me getting over like i'm not worth two two thousand our suit like i'm not that guy i'll never be that guy but if it's an investment i can do that

right yeah hey how any it keeps you from buying stuff to impress other people that's that to me is the yeah it must be the thing. hey i want to talk to you for a second about love and not love like in titanic or something i mean responsible love the kind of love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you

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“option. Jennifer is in Charlotte North Carolina hi Jennifer how are you?”

hey i'm good how are you guys better than we deserve what's up well i was want to know if

i should go back to school well if i should go to school i've never been to college and um the

job that i've been in um all the i've risen through the ranks position was i can't go any further without a four year degree and what are you doing? i work in the cafeteria i'm a trainer for them and so um i've been a worker i've been a manager i'm a manager and how does it that you can't do because you don't have a four year degree is it just corporate policy? it is um and yeah uh it is definitely required i've tried every avenue i can think of and um i can't be in a supervisory role

and um or how long have you worked there? in any specialist i've worked there um for almost 20

“years okay and so if you get a four year degree in what nutrition or what um honestly it could”

probably be in any case yeah yeah just to check the corporate box and then your income today is what um 65 65 thousand dollars a year is what you make? yeah how old are you? 50 okay and what and what would you make four years from now if you got a degree in any old thing? a well a person of my work experience other than college and caliber um they make around 75 to 85 doing the exact same job? doing not what i do but doing what i would

want to be able to do which is what? i'm be a supervisor or maybe a uh over the cafeteria training specialist. well it would be over um several temperatures like 18 and my thought process is that even if it takes me five or six years if i be in safety that would still give me an additional five or six years okay i want what i do like is the idea of improving yourself putting some tools in your bill for you to be worth more and earn more. i like that. i don't like

that you're doing it for an artificial ceiling that shouldn't be there and so that makes me want to quit and go work for someone else um and instead uh yeah i mean because this is stupid

“that you have to have it a four year degree and left-handed puppetry so you can go run 18”

cafeterias and you know how to run a cafeteria off the back of your hand with it thinking about it and these morons in corporate America i have decided that a four year degree somehow makes you a genius some four year somebody with a four year degree came up with this policy that's how much of a genius they are so um so i don't like that part of the discussion at all but i love the idea

going to events going to seminars reading books studying getting another certification another

“degree uh constant state of learning in a culture where the rate of change is so rapid that it's”

blinding is necessary to win and to grow and to be better and so i like all of that and so i would tell you to go to school and study something i don't mind that a bit i also think you probably need to look at working somewhere else. John what are you thinking? Yeah i'm i'm i'm thinking one at what a what a costly corporate mistake to not put somebody of your experience caliber leadership ability into the next right position that will improve everything for the company they're bottom

line they're employee retention they're inside and knowledge all of it simply for this one box. it's just corporations deciding we're going to outsource we're going to use a metric to outsource value and we're going to use a metric called degree or not degree um as a hard stop is i mean you know

we have we have some policies around ramsy that we say that we start the policy with almost never

“okay we almost never have relatives of current team members because if you fire one you lose”

the other one usually so we just almost never do it but we have occasionally right and when i got one common sense super when common sense super imposed and stepped on on top of a policy then we put the policy down and i've worked in in university settings which are the epicenter of this right you got to have a degree to breathe at a university campus and i get it um i've had two different universities and two different employees that i would put as some of the best employees

i've ever worked with had no degree but they were so skilled and i gave them a path to to eventually if they wanted to but i went and fought on their behalf right and that's it so i'm frustrated there on the other side of it for you i grew up in a home where in Dave's what Dave said

is really wise so in what he said is very specific my mom took her first community college

class at age of 41 and it was simply i want to get some training and some education so that i could make some more money and she found a whole new world and so she graduated with her PhD at 63 and got tenured as you know 57 got tenured as a professor at 63 that was not even on her radar not even on her planet and here is this woman from Texas that spent in her mid-70s was teaching over at Oxford overseas a gave her a whole new world but the pursuit in Dave was right here

was she wanted to grow herself and she wanted to keep learning and keep getting better and hard official corporate stupid policy that's it that's right initially i want to get some training so i can get a job at a community college and that led to another thing let's do another thing but it was all based on i want to continue to grow she spent time in corporations because she kept learning new things and so if you do take this track which i like to have support

make sure you study something that you're super interested in make sure you get there get through quickly too and you find the least expensive option for you and you pay cash for it and if this job goes away you've got a tool set that your horizons your toolkit everything's been expanded so that you can go do other things besides just this one thing because they set you up for this yeah and by the way your tools set may tell you to leave that's exactly right you might find out

oh my gosh i have the skillset to go do the same thing at a warehouse instead of a cafeteria

then i don't want to work for stupid people and i can make quarter million dollars doing that right

because you've got such amazing experience you got experience working with parents working with administrators working with legislatures working with vendors you've got so much experience that you may not even realize how marketable you are um that yeah that's great but today i just get frustrated by those hard stops you know what i mean yeah i mean i can understand the concept

“but i think an almost never in front of it and then she's the exception would be more much”

less corporate stupidity it's just it's just this i corporate idea you just box yourself into a corner yeah unnecessarily right well i mean that has and this is why small businesses employ 57% of Americans because small businesses use common sense i need the person to can do this job yeah if you work for a family business they actually most the time have some brains you know at least look at something through a reasonable lens you know you might not agree with

it but they at least are you know it's not a blind and is the reasonable ince can you do this job well yeah with excellence yeah i i don't know what anyone's to create in this place except yours because you talk about them all time

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welcome back to the ramsy show in the fair winds credit union studio manny is in at lanta georgia hi manny how are you good how are you better than i deserve what's up hey so i got uh rental property that's worth uh six hundred thousand uh well it's estimated between five seventy five and six hundred i-o-340 on it and i have thirty thousand in personal debt and twenty thousand in business debt um i'm coming up on a bonus next year

that i should be able to wipe out all the debt i'm trying to this you know but i'm feeling a little pressure and i'm not sure if i should sell that rental to pay off the debt what are you already just kind of as a hold it out what are you on your home uh may home my oh uh two hundred okay

“just under one ninety nine okay cool so you have a business debt but you get a bonus”

sounds like you're an employee how do you have a i have a business i purchased last year um and i also have a full-time job okay so your business that you bought is got the thirty thousand dollars and it's a side of the store the per i have thirty thousand in personal debt and then i have twenty thousand okay so what you got a business debt what are you owe them business debt on who do you credit card okay it's not a credit card debt it's personal you allocated it in your

mind business but the bank doesn't know its business it's in your name yeah it's in your credit card card debt because you used a credit card about business okay all right and then thirty thousand dollars worth of other personal debt in addition to that so none there's no such thing as business debt on something like this because banks don't loan money to businesses your size they loan money to people that do things like businesses your size which is fine okay so anyway minor detail

now so so two hundred you fifty two hundred fifty thousand dollars gets you out of debt a hundred percent and you make what a year again i make sixty year but then i get paid a bonus based on the revenue that the business that i work for does another fifty it's based on the revenue so like

this year the bonus is projected to be a hundred thousand and i get paid it first quarter of the

year and third quarter wow and so next year i would get paid about fifty thousand in January and then the other fifty thousand in July okay all right so the premise that we're using to answer your question overall you've asked a very nuanced tactical question but the principle is that what we have found in thirty years thirty five years of doing this is and proven it by the way is the fastest method to build wealth is to not have debt because you're most powerful

wealth building tool is your income and when you give it to a stupid bank it keeps you from building

wealth and so what i'm always going to lead you towards is being debt-free as soon as possible

the fifty thousand dollars in miscellaneous debt the two hundred thousand dollar mortgage and the rental and so i love rental properties and you're making money and you're making good money and you're making it in a kind of a weird way which is fun because it makes you live

what does she make all she works in the business okay what's the business make a year

“well um we just bought it so this is our second year well you didn't pay money for a business”

that doesn't make money did you well oh you did yes we did it does make money but we've just invested it back into the business okay so what is the profit on the business a year last year the business made it was just under sixty thousand okay that you paid taxes on yes okay and so good thank goodness would you buy it for two hundred two hundred thousand okay

but you paid cash for all of it but twenty no so i'm sorry i messed up on that's like

i have it seller finance oh so there's more debt okay how much do you owe the seller right now it's about sixty thousand that's left okay all right yes sell the rental property

“and pay off the sixty thousand and pay off the fifty thousand and um pay off your home mortgage”

and then you're a hundred percent debt free and you're making two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year pretty soon and you're able to cash in an invest in an invest and buy another rental property later on for cash if you want um but i'm gonna use this rental property to clean up this mess right now okay because here think about this from it how would what business decisions would you make that are different and how would you walk and talk inside your office with your employer

if you had no mortgage no credit card no debt no seller financing zero debt in your life can you breathe that level of peace into your lungs oh it's so really good yeah i guess that's worth right rental property for okay so you wouldn't wait and because i could pay off i know i heard you can't pay it off you just kept stacking debt in the conversation for a minute your bonus was gonna handle it but then after we finish the conversation your bonus doesn't

even come close anymore so if you cash flow on this for no property i love it hundred yeah so put it this way the eleven uh you're paying more than eleven dollars in pay much yes and this hundred doubt you're gonna clear all your debts off and if you get this hundred thousand dollars bonus and it all comes through as you think it's going to just that's eight years what nine years of rental of cash flow on this property yeah you just accelerated that exactly right so

pocket that be happy put that hundred grand towards the life you and your life want to live and investments and what i mean you'll have no payments you'll do whatever you want with the hundred thousand dollars go become a multimillionaire now with no debt payments and the great income and a good a good business and a good job and by the way you can you can do this two ways emotionally you can think your quote unquote losing this rental house or you can think thank god

i have this thing they can clear up all of these goofy decisions i've made up until now

and let me do a hard reset and we've learned our lesson we're never going to borrow money again

we're going to have a hundred grand cash in the bank on top of what we already what i might my salary we were able to just do a control delete that's an amazing place to be be really grateful that you're in this position yeah go sell that house it's wonderful yeah exactly what i would

“do and if you want to real estate to start stacking some of your bonuses and just you know”

and high yield savings and look over there and go oh there's four hundred thousand over there let's go buy real house if you don't want to do that that's okay but that's three years out [Music] hey guys you're a camel here you ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it

toothpaste and emotional support candles just me okay well that's the problem most people don't

“pay attention to how they spend their money so it does whatever it wants and that's why we created”

every dollar it's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money every dollar simple it's clear and it helps track where your money's actually going plus you get daily lessons to do's and reminders along the way it's like having a money coach in your pocket your money's been freelancing long enough it's time to give every dollar a full-time job go download every dollar for free on the app store or google play

are you sick and tired of working so hard and having nothing to show for it well that's kind of normal but normal's broke you don't want to be normal you do not have to live that way our every dollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month and build you a personalized

“Ramsey plan to beat that bill well follow the baby steps in just 15 minutes when you first start”

doing a budget this always happens you're going to find thousands of dollars you're going to feel

like you got a raise hidden margin don't live normal when you can live like no one else start every dollar for free in the app store or google play k-lice into moan high k-lice how are you good how are you better than I deserve what's up so I'm calling because I was in baby step 7 my husband and I when we were 27 years old we had a paid off mortgage no debt and in the last 10 years we have just backslid and I really don't have a good excuse for it

other than it was just keeping up with the Joneses and currently we're living in a house where our monthly income is where our mortgage is about 33% of our monthly income and we just feel

“so overwhelmed at the every month at the end of the month for financially that I was just wondering”

if you think I should sell my house and downsides to something cheaper well I hear the pain of regret and your voice feels dirty doesn't yes it really just feels like we had it all figured out and now we're just normal you just got you just got lazy you got you got relaxed and they went back to be in like everybody else that's I'm so sorry yeah so I'm 37 and in the last three years we have bought and sold three separate houses and that's really where my apprehension comes in

from the south of the house and this why just just I guess just lifestyle creeps just wanting you moved up every time you moved up every time yes Kayla I want to tell me if I'm wrong I want to push on this little bit there is an unsettledness in your marriage fair well find the answer definitely and maybe it's just financially but there's something that

y'all are chasing that over here we're going to finally feel a certain way and then we need to go

over here and this will make us whole and this will bring us like there's a there's something that a disconnection between you and your spouse that is you are chasing with these other things you're looking for love and all the wrong places yeah am I am I off my rocker I have a pretty happy marriage it's okay I mean I don't I just I do feel like we're chasing something and then more just you know trying to keep up with the job I'll be happy when I'll be happy

when I'll be happy when I'll be happy when you can have a happy marriage it's not a united one you could have a you can just contented yeah one or both of you can be peacekeepers and y'all can find yourself sitting six inches away from each other in the couch which are six thousand miles from each other you're in different planets and y'all could say no we're happy we don't yell we don't scream we like each other but that's different than being we are unified

building a thing together and building this thing has costs and it has wins associated with it right but all it to say is yeah all that deviants the question right it just sounds like it's I agree it sounds like there's like disc contentment has been driving this and so and contentment is a spiritual decision godliness with contentment is great gain to be able to just sit and breathe and call where I am

but we can also be content we're being ambitious this whole thing now the differences is that we're

“not chasing happiness in a wrong location like it'll all be okay win if I I'll be happy if I”

got this I'll be happy if I did that it'd be happy if I had a better car be happy if the kids were in that school district I'll be happy if we had a white kitchen you know or whatever which might have been said in my house a few years ago so um but yeah and what you thought every new house you all bought you all went with you right and so I want you to get I want you to get I want you to get under the hood on this you and your husband sit down start talking about it okay what were we chasing

that caused us to make these decisions and I don't want to make a new decision using that same chase that's exactly right I want you to make a new decision based on math and it does it take us towards our new goal because yes and because you'd run towards the different house a quote unquote upgrade in house for the last three years you're still gonna be running you might be running a different direction but you're still just running from something

instead of saying hey I love that the diagnosis of our problem if we just say what what are we been chasing and who do we want to be how do we want to wherever we live a one-bedroom apartment or really fancy house how do I want this house to feel and man begin to reverse engineer the action steps we're gonna take so that we can get to this warmth and joy and laughter what do we want our life to feel like and really heartfelt authentic question I love it I appreciate you being vulnerable

about it and letting us jump into the jump on this problem with you the yeah so this is what drives

a lot of stuff I mean I sometimes I'm asked you know what's the most powerful financial principle

contentment is when you're content you don't go in debt to buy something you can afford when you're content you can live on less than you make when you're content you can be generous when you're content you can invest and save because you don't have to consume all of it who is a warm up it's right him in Charlie yeah man he has some great one lineers about like my watch costs 30 bucks and it tells the same time your watch says right like just some

if you can learn to settle in here and just drop your shoulders man you kind of you become so free you can do whatever you want because you're not subject to the whims of other people's approval it's strange though I mean part of contentment is I don't care what anybody thinks yeah

which we always find that statement among millionaires I became I got out of that and I became

wealthy when I quit carrying what others think why do you drive a Toyota and you're worth $4 million I don't care why do you I'm not taking a poll yeah why do you wear those shoes I don't stop like I know you don't even know because yeah yeah yeah but it's they I think people will hear this as for lack of a better terms of press of speech it's is the most empowering thing you can tell somebody is unhook yourself from all of these phantom judgments that you think are being cast your way

and get in the driver seat of your own life become the chief agent and where you and your spouse want to go man you you become you can just do anything yeah and it's pretty extraordinary we had a relative when we got hardcore after the bankruptcy we got hardcore and we still are

we never quit yeah we don't borrow money for anything ever and we don't care what you think

“period now I'll try to convince you for your sake if you're asking me a question that's what I do here”

on the air but in terms of do I need your approval to become as wealthy as we have become by not borrowing money no I don't need your approval not alone I'm not taking a poll and then we had a relative this like yeah I'm worried about y'all I think I bankruptcy damaged you I think you need counseling and I'm like for sure but not for the reasons you think and so we took her on a cruise a few years later we'll just just to say thanks for her advice there's full of crap but yeah

I think you need counseling I think you've joined a cult is that church you're going to a cult church lady right now yeah thank you dynacarbina but if you if you find yourself running and you're running from thing to thing to thing that's so good Kayla thank you you got us off you got us off on this yeah the the most helpful thing you can do sometimes is just up running why started one of my running what why am I why am I in this race yeah it's they call it the rat

race yeah the the man I just I was telling you off here I don't call it the third breath I call it rat a powerful book by tywin he's a professor in the university you talk um called the score

“but he asked this really important question in the book is this the game I want to be playing”

that's it and man that question is I asked my son that time's at nine marbles and go home thank

all of his this the hill you really wanted that is it now that's so good I want joy in my house that's how one all right let's cut to the chase it's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way you'll have confidence to make smart decisions Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling they're people you can trust to have

your back from the first call to closing day find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey Solutions.com/agent

that's Ramsey Solutions.com/agent Mark is in Buffalo, New York, hey Mark how are you? I'm great deep thanks for taking my phone call. Sure, what's up? Well I'm trying to convince my wife that for the next couple years I'm hoping to retire in the next four to five years to invest in the markets instead of memories. I know it sounds kind of odd. She would rather spend the money and I want to say now but rather spend it on the kids

“and grandkids making memories than leaving a legacy. Well you should do both.”

I'm trying to convince her that. This is an angry discussion. She likes to take our entire family and cruises and what's your network? Probably about 1.2 or 3. Okay and what's your household income? About 190 and what does she spend on a cruise when she takes the whole family? About 30, 35. Okay that doesn't keep you from investing. Well, I guess in a way it does. It definitely makes out our 401. You keep it from investing.

Well I'd like to put more in because I would love to leave my kids and grandkids something, I don't see substantial because I know that you're a millionaire.

“Yeah. What's your parents leave you? I think God I have both my career still.”

Okay. What will they leave you? 10 million dollars?

No. Okay. No. And you're going to be okay. Your kids are going to be okay. So I should just let her have her. No. I think you ought to both be you ought to be investing and you ought to let her have her enjoyment and you have the money to do both, sure. Okay. Have you ever been successful in convincing? No. Okay. Because even the way you ask that question, it suggests you're

sitting on opposite side of the table, you versus your wife. And it's not an argument. It's mostly, I really want to retire. I've owned a restaurant for almost four years now. My feet legs and hips and back are shot. Okay. And when I finally do retire, that 190,000 is not going to be coming in. Okay. Great. So, great. But hold on. I'd love to be to work

“until I'm about 65, 66, 67. And I don't want that. Have you had that conversation?”

I'm in pain. Yes. I want to enjoy the rest of my life with you, with the grandkids. And we don't have enough safe to do that right now. Well, you guys are old enough to remember 2008. And a small part of this maybe a major part is that I had a lot of few risks when I was young

and put our business almost in to almost the million dollars in debt to the state, the feds,

pervayers, insurance, et cetera, et cetera. So, she has this idea that you want to use fleeting and to enjoy it while you have it. And since 2008, we paid off our house, we paid off our mortgage. We have about a half a million in our 401. So, we've climbed out of that hole

We sold everything. We lived on. Sarah, how old are you today, did you say?

“Okay. All right, so I think you sit down and start having some very granular conversations and”

say, okay, my back hurts, my hips hurt. I'm not doing this till I'm 67. I can't. And so what's going to happen is is that if we to the extent we spend all of the investment money, we're going to end up in a much reduced lifestyle from a time I retire on. And so we can do some things. We can do the occasional cruise for everybody. We can still do a $30,000 thing. That's not undoable. But we can't do three of them because the other two things that are that size I need to go on investing so that

we're doing both things well. And I need your, I need you to join me emotionally in doing both of these things. Having fun with the money and investing it. Instead of me feeling like I'm dragging you kicking and screaming and you're like a kid on the cereal aisle throwing a fit that you want sugary cereal right now. And I don't, you know, so I want us to be joined and the healing from 2008 from the mistakes is in our rear view mirror and we're joined together and we're walking

into a cool new future that's a two or three million dollar net worth in our early 60s. And while

we're doing that, we're going to do some fun things too. But I'm nervous about that. So my tendency is to run honey over onto the saving, only side. And your tendency is to run over to the other side. Both are actually correct. And we need to be doing both. But we need to be unified in doing both.

“And it, man, could have said a better and the thing I'll add is Mark, you need to finish line”

because you're going to chase the word substantial. You're going to chase the word legacy. And if you don't give yourself a, I want every grand kid to get $25,000. I want my four kids to each get, if you don't give yourself sums in that, that by the way, that finish line can move. Right? Let's say you sell your restaurant and you get eight times what you thought that can move. But,

man, you're going to be chasing and never, an ever moving finish line called substantial and

called legacy. If you don't put some concrete ideas around that. If you're, if you're grand kids and kids have gotten no sense, it doesn't matter if you leave my million or ten million, it'll be gone in four months. So, and you probably don't think any less of your parents. Either. You don't think you're going to leave you a gentleman from there. Yeah. And so, and I don't, you know, so, I, you know, leaving, changing your family tree is a good goal. It's a good goal.

Unless it drives you to do, like you're incomplete if you don't do it somehow. There you go.

“And so, that's what we want to avoid. Brian is with us. Brian is in chocolate and Missouri.”

Hey, Brian, what's up. How much are you making doing that? About 4,000 a month. That's just an evening. After 5 or 30, about 10 or 11 o'clock at night and then on weekends. Good for you. And what do you make on your day job? About 5500 a week. 35 an hour doing it 60 hours a week. And should you make a $20,000 a month that your day job? No, sir. Just 5500 dollars monthly. Monthly, not weekly. You should weekly. Okay. And so, you got one that's doing 5500 a month and one

that's doing 4,000 a month, right? Yes, sir. And I get that's hard to juggle with too. Can you cut your hours back on your heavy equipment day job? That's what I currently did. The 40 hours a week. And I'm still hard to balance them. I hear you. Can you cut it more? I can see. I can ask them. Yeah, I would ask my employer to let me have Friday's off. Yes, sir. It's what I'm currently doing now. And I've got established customers. And I'm

seems I know I could be able if I'd end that boom. But we hope you can double it because you're getting very cut your pay and have when you quit. Yes, sir. That's right. So what I like to do in

these situations, I want you to do this. Okay. But I want to always say I want to pull the boat

really close to the dock. So I'm not taking a leap of faith. And right now you're taking a leap of faith. Like you're going to cut $5,500 if you quit today out of your a month. And you've got to make that up and you're only making four now. And if you don't make it up, then you're going to feel

And we've cut the hours down on the day job. That gets the boat closer to the dock. And then you

“just step into the boat. You don't have to jump and hope you hit it. And so that's what I want to do.”

I want to get your, I know you're tired and your hard work can do it. And I love what you're doing. I want you to go do this. I want you to go in business for yourself. I'm going to send you a copy of building a business you love, our book, and I want you to read it. ? Our big investing essentials event is next Tuesday and Wednesday. Don't miss your chance to be there. Investing isn't difficult, but it's not something you can learn

in a 60 second TikTok video. So at this two night virtual event, George Camel and I will walk you through

my playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll simplify everything from maximizing your 401k to reducing taxes and setting up wheels and real estate and much more. Join us next week on September first and second. Take it start at $199. Get yours now at RamseySolutions.com/events or by clicking the link in the show notes. Our scripture of the day first Corinthians 10, 13. No temptation is overtaken you except

what is common to mankind and God is faithful. He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. Ronald Reagan said status quo you know is Latin for the mess Warren.

“It's fantastic. That's great. I love it. Oliver's in Connecticut. Hey Oliver. What's up in your world?”

Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I love your show. Well thank you sir. Yes. My question. I'm 46 single no kids. No debt. I haven't had any kind of full-time work in about a year and a half. I do have some pretty good savings and I'd like to know your pin. If you think I'm going to be able to to retire at this point. Today? Oh yes. I mean yes. Yes. No have to work again. What are you going to do the rest of your life?

Well, you know it's funny. I actually interviewed for a part-time minimum wage job today because it has been kind of boring. I tried to get some jobs. I haven't had luck because they say you don't have the education or grad school or experience. What are you going to do with the rest of your life? Oliver. I would like to have a life in a child and so that's part of the question is. And that requires not working? Well, I mean it's maybe a possibility. Again, I'm not.

I can tell you my financials and maybe you can tell me your opinion. My opinion is you shouldn't

“quit work at 46 regardless of your financials. You should be doing something for the good of”

mankind and yourself. You don't have to work odd slave job. You don't have to work 40 hours or 80 hours a week or something but you ought to be doing something. Okay, so what is your net worth? What do you have saved?

I have 2.7 million in a brokerage. One million of that's in a Roth. Those are like you suggest.

Mutual floods and ETFs that average about 10 to 10 percent of three family house. I own which cash flow about 300 a month. 30,000 in HSA, 40,000 high yield savings accounts and we're doing this. I ran a tennis business for about 15 years and sold it. Now I was leasing space out of an indoor tennis club and they sold the club. I was trying to buy the club and the owner was going to sell to me in the last minute. He said he sold it to a golf buddy. The

golf buddy came in and he said I have new plans for the place and you're not part of them. Okay, so you lost your lease and you just closed to the business but the money came from making a lot of

But I mean, you made a profit a lot of money and you stacked it. That's where the money came from. That's what I'm proud of as retain. Yeah, I live a simple life.

“Okay, so what does it take you to look over here if you wanted to not work anymore? What do you need to live on?”

Well, right now it's about 85,000 a year. But I went and I would like to buy a house. Yeah, well, your non-Roth investments should be generating more than 85,000 dollars a year. And so yeah, you could quit today. But aside, like I said earlier, aside from the finances, I don't think you need to quit today. And you're a proven entrepreneur. You ran a very lucrative business. You developed the business model. Obviously, I love

for tennis that you parlayed into whatever sources of revenue there and you know, and stacked $3 million.

Way to go. And you're only $46. So, you know, do you not remember how alive you felt when you were fighting those battles growing that business? It felt it did feel good and I haven't been able to come up with any other entrepreneurial ideas. And before that business part of working so hard was a had eight or nine jobs. That was just terrible. Most of them being commissioned only $1,000 for dollar sales jobs. Okay, so don't do that. You don't have to. You got 85,000

coming off that brokerage account. So, we're not stressed about where we're going to go or what we're

“going to do. But if you want a wife and kid, I think you're a lot more attractive if you're actually”

out there doing something. And most women don't want to marry a couch potato, even if they're independently wealthy. Yeah. And the research is pretty clear that if you, if you, when you quit to do nothing, your body gets the message and it will start to send the signals we're done here. Our work is done here. And you'll see your health fall off a cliff, your emotional mental health of fall off a cliff. Your body just starts shutting it down. So, so I would go and do, you know,

if Ramsey closed today, I'm 66, not 46. I would go and open a business because it's fun. Because I enjoy, I enjoy business. I enjoy running a business. I enjoy the, the challenge. I enjoy the building of something that's profitable that the marketplace likes and gives you money for. And I'll say this. Happy customer. You are the most singularly focused business person I've

ever been around who's got an obsession with helping the first, the front-line customer, right?

Like, I know you're like building a business, but I think you like helping people. Yeah, but that's a good business does. That's exactly right. If you're running car repair, you're better like helping people. That's exactly right. Yeah, if you're, you know, if you're in the, if you're

“a doctor or a medical doctor, you should like helping people. Feel better. Yeah. So Oliver, like,”

what about your, did you like the tennis business? Because me and go open a tennis business, or did you like the teaching part? Or do you like seeing the light bulb come on and young kids and teenagers and taking pretty good athletes and making them, helping them become excellent? Like, what about that? Did you, do you, could do that anywhere? Yeah, exactly. All over the place, but fine. And so going and interviewing for a job and then saying you don't have a degree after you

made three million dollars is kind of funny. Yeah, it's absurd. The guy telling you that's making

used to be your employee. Yeah, he used to hire you to give teachers kid had a play tennis, right? Yeah. And so now that, that's not, that does not steal my hope and make me want to quit. Quite to the contrary. It makes, gives me a real reason to go start a business. It kick his butt. All right. Joey's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Joey, what's up? Hey, so I am recovering gambling addict to 31 days for not gambling. Good for you. Congratulations, dude. Thank you.

Way to go. What were you gambling on? Stupid apps like MGM, like on the slot machine and stuff, tools and games. Yeah, it is. They say house wins. Okay. Good for you, Joey. How can we help? Thank you. Yeah. So I have a, I started budgeting in June of this year from watching guys a show. And I've accumulated some debt from gambling. I've already paid off. I started with 28,000 in debt. I got it down to 23,000. Good. 900 and 11. Way to go. But I'm trying to figure out how to

prioritize. Well, list your debts. List your debts smallest to largest. Yes. Regardless of what kind of debt or what the interest rate is. Yeah, absolutely credit cards. 10, 115. On one card person. No, it's a four separate card. List them individually. Smallest to largest. Smallest to largest and pay minimum payments on

your healing. I'm excited for your journey. We're going to send you a copy of the total one you make

over, which will show you exactly how to do all of this stuff. Joey, way to go. Man, I'm proud of you.

We're also going to sign you up for every dollar, the advanced version of our budgeting app

to also help you to continue this healing process. We want to be there for you and give you everything

“you can do. Hey, the young guys out there, you need to take Joey's cue. Fastest thing is destroying”

men, young men in their 20s is sports betting. I mean, draft Kings is not a blessing to your life.

I'll just tell you. It's screwing up more of you guys than anything else we're running into.

“So Joey's just the tip of the iceberg. Make sure you do this stuff. Hey, guys, that's how it's done.”

It's common sense for your dollars in sense. And, you know, grommels, advice still works. Even if it's filtered through a John Deloni or Dave Rambs. It's just a little less than you make me. We're 100% of the time. There it is. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime,

“remember there's ultimately only one way of financial peace and that's to walk daily with the”

prints of feaks for ice users.