Learn When To Move From Intensity To Intentionality

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“>> Normal is broken common sense is weird.”

So we're here to help you transform your life. >> From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. >> I'm Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author. >> Most of the very popular Ramsey Network program called Frot Rosey.

He's my co-host today. The phone number here is AAA, 825, 5225. Rachel is in Nashville. Hi, Rachel, how are you? >> Okay, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve, what's up?

>> I was calling because I recently found out that my husband has been hiding some credit card debt that I didn't know about. >> And how much? >> We know 30,000 that I am aware of. >> 30,000 that you're aware of.

>> Yeah. >> Okay, show you, don't tell you everything. >> No, I do not. He recently, like, when I confronted him about it, he wouldn't answer me, and then- >> How did you find it?

>> I got into my bank account app to upload a check and saw a notification that my credit score had dropped significantly, and I looked at it, and then saw that there was $30,000 of credit card that attached to it. >> To your credit score? >> Yes.

“>> How did you get a credit card that you didn't know about?”

They signed your name on your own? >> I'm not authorized. No, I'm an authorized user on it. >> Authorized users don't have their credit damaged. >> Well, not supposed to anyway.

>> Well, it's tied to my credit score, certainly. >> Okay. So he's run up- so you guys have got your money separate, and why didn't he tell you about it? >> I don't know if he was embarrassed or just hiding or just counting on the fact that I

wouldn't find out about it, I'm not sure. >> Well, I mean, why does he care if you find out about it? It's his business, right? You all have separate stuff. >> I don't know.

He told me that it shouldn't matter, or I shouldn't care if my credit score is okay, you're not. Well, that's not the point, the point is why is he hiding that? >> I don't know the answer, I mean, he's trying, so now he's trying to do a cash out mortgage refinance to roll the credit card that into our mortgage.

>> Okay, well, there's a lot going on in this conversation. >> Okay. >> We can separate it out into three or four pieces, number one, we'll go with the last thing

first, you do not refinance credit card debt into your mortgage ever unless it's to avoid a

bankruptcy and you're not bankrupt, you're just out of control, have a horrible system and a questionable marriage. But a refinance does not help any of that. It treats the symptom, the debt is the symptom, not the problem.

“I'm asking questions that you don't know the answer to, that you need to be asking to”

try to find out what the actual problem is, why did he run up this debt, what's he buying with it, and the answer to the overall situation is, the most concerning of all is your marriage. He's lying to you and flipping about it and thinks it's perfectly okay that he's actually done harm to your score, I mean, this is not a sound weird, this whole thing sounds weird. >> Yeah, it is, and I don't know how to proceed because he's- >> It's a marriage issue,

is how you proceed. >> Yeah, no, we've been releasing the link you're canceling and he doesn't want to do anything about it. >> Okay. Dr. John DeLemi says, behavior is a language, and when someone says, I don't want to work

on our marriage, they're saying I don't want to be with you. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. So I would get with the counselor this week and say, we need to be real clear with this guy, we're not signing a mortgage, and we're going to heal our marriage, and as we feel it starting

to heal and trust starts to rebuild, we're going to combine our finances so that this never happens again. I have full access to everything, he has full access to everything, we both have a vote.

not that, you're his wife.

“So, the parts of you that said this all sounds crazy are absolutely correct, this all sounds”

crazy. See, I really want to know where the money went. >> I want to know that too, but I can't find anything. I mean, from what I can look at, I can't see anything crazy, and then he was like, you didn't find anything, did you?

Which makes me think that he is hiding things. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And proud about it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

I'm worried there's other things even going on after having done what I do for so many

years, I hope it's not, but there's got a lot of symptoms here that this money's going to something that's really going to piss you off later. So I really, I want you to get to the bottom of this, and start from ground zero and rebuild your marriage from the ground up, it's your only shot, existing in the current situation is not, status quo is not going to work, it's not going to work.

I don't think this guy wants to be married, I'm getting passive aggressive vibes where he wants to have her call this off, because he doesn't have the guts to, because he's a liar.

“This feels Dave, I don't know if you're catching that vibe, that's what I'm catching.”

The key wants her to be the one to say, I'm done, I'm out, because he's a weekly, so he's manipulating her.

>> Well, before it comes out that he has a girlfriend, that's it, I think he's trying

to push her. >> Yeah, so I don't know, I do not know, we can't tell, but we've done a lot of this over the years, and it doesn't turn out well with it type of an attitude you're describing. And so the biggest thing is, okay, I've got a problem, the situation's broken, we work on it together, we fix the problem, that's how good marriage works, and this is not.

So yeah, you need to talk to your counselor, and your counselor needs to grow a pair, and drag them in there, and look, this isn't, you guys, you're screwing around with all of us, and I'm not going to have it, that was a good counselor, we'll hold in, a good therapist to hold him accountable for this misbehavior. So, and for this lack of repentance and so on, your credit score is not on the list of things

I'm worried about here, getting rid of the debt, not signing the mortgage and healing the marriage, not in that order, are the three things I'm worried about. All right, Nick is with us in Portland, Oregon, hey, Nick, what's up? Oh, yes, I'm just recently hearing about your baby steps program, I've only been listening for about a week, but I have a couple of questions, I'm 52 years old, and I'm debt free,

and my house was paid off, but I really don't have any money in saving, you know, I have about $500 in savings right now, what's your household income? $4,000 a month, right? I worked for myself, so I have a janitorial business today, could I operate? Nick, I bumped into a commercial, my fault, I'm going to have to put you on hold and bring

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All right, we're talking with Nick and Portland, Oregon $4,000 a month, then come no dad

“including his house new to the baby steps. I think that's about how far we got into”

it, Nick. And your question today, sir. So I guess I'm on step three of saving up an emergency fund. Correct. But currently, it's going to take about two years before I can save up, say, 20,000.

And I'm wondering if I should start investing at some point before I have that full emergency fund saved up. Okay, you make $48,000 a year. Why do you need a $20,000 emergency fund? I thought that was three to six months of my-

Well, that would be more than six months.

So three months would be 12,000 of your income, not your sciences. And it sounds like your expenses are $3,000 because you're saving $1,000. And so if that's the case, then 10,000 is plenty. Okay, 10,000 is plenty. So do you have- I'm totally new to anything with regard to investing.

I don't know anything about it. Do you have any recommendations? Sure. I would do investing after you get the 10,000 saved and you can go to RamseySolutions.com. Click on our smart vester program and those are mutual fund brokers, advisors, that don't

work for us, but that have agreed to do stuff the way we teach. And I put mine and Ken puts his in four types of mutual funds, growth, growth income,

aggressive growth and international for a very stable, conservative portfolio.

And then we fund that with your Roth IRA.

“And if you've got 401k or Roth IRA, and I think you said you're self-employed, you could”

do a simple IRA as well. There's a lot of different ways you can do it and keep the government's hands off of it. But the other thing I'm going to do is look at maybe adding some income to the equation at least short term to be able to get the- to be able to get the emergency fund fund to this fast as possible because you're struggling on how quickly you can do that.

$2,000 a month, you'd be done in five months on 10,000. And that would be fine for right now because you're obviously a very conservative person. Your expenses should not be so high if you don't have a house payment. And you don't have any debt at all. So I'd also be looking at your budget.

Yeah, I agree with this, Dave. I think people need to understand that the gazelle intensity that we preach in baby step two, when you're knocking all that debt out, that needs to continue into baby step three. Because when you get to that emergency fund, in this case, somebody's brand new to it,

“there is a level of accomplishment and a level of relief that kind of come together.”

And it just puts you in a really, really good place. So I absolutely agree with extra jobs, sell stuff, let's get that 10,000 accumulated really quickly. Yeah, but you will jump on to baby step seven and as soon as you finish that, that's right. I apparently know children involved and at least the way you presented this and, you know,

house payment and so boom, you know, now we just- and all we have left to do is to invest. And, you know, and so I really want to do what I can do with my career overall to get my income up overall in these premium earning years to be able to do that. So Ken, it's also interesting to mention, we've seen several pieces of data and I've observed this too, just taking the calls over the years.

The highest income earning decade for a mail is in their 50s. That's correct. 60 years old. And so that's when it all comes together and there's an arc, boom, and, you know, then the 60s, you kind of plateau out, kind of ride the horse out into retirement.

But, you know, until then that's when everything comes together, your experience, your education, your history, your failures, everything starts to pull in together and you mix up this really neat gumbo that's got a great taste to it in your 50s and the 60s. That's right, in your 50 to 60 year old decade. That's presuming that there has been some intentionality prior to that and I really recommend

to get it in your 30s. If you do that, then you can build on it in your 50s. Absolutely. Daniels in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Daniel.

Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. It's not our to talk to you. You too. How can we help?

Yes, today at 1250 a.m., we suffered a house fire and it looks like it's going to be a total loss. And what is everybody okay?

Yeah, everyone's okay. We have two cats that are still missing. We're hoping they got out and we live right by the woods so we're hoping they're just hanging out around the house right now. We had a good Christian public, a jester, reach out to us and we want to know what

your thoughts were on that and what the correct next steps did to take from here. Well, a public adjuster's job is to make sure that the insurance company pays every stinking dime they're supposed to pay and you've got to cross every t and dot every eye to cause that to happen and sometimes you've got a lean on them. Is he willing to lean on them?

Yeah, they seem like they're I've done my due diligence on them and already looked into the company and they seem like they're a pretty awesome company. Yeah. I'm a fan of the concept I've seen good ones and bad ones. Okay.

And so I've seen them that embarrass you by the way they behave and I've seen other ones

“that are too whistified to punch, stay farm in the mouth, which is about the only thing”

to stay farm-freaking understands, who's your insurance with? The home expenses of what's Triple A is with who? Triple A. Triple A. Okay.

All right. I'm not any experience with their claims except on auto claim once it was a good experience. A guy with Triple A hit me and I got paid pretty quick, that was good. So yeah, the inventorying of your stuff, the detail that when you don't do the detail,

you get underpaid by 20 or 25 percent type of stuff is where the public adjuster service

is really valuable. Are they taking a percentage? Yes, they're taking 10 percent. Okay. All right.

What's the house worth, do you think? I bought the house in 2024.

“The property has a big detail to garage on it.”

It was a tiny house. I bought it for 150. The actual house part itself was probably worth about 150. It's not counting a lot or counting a lot because a lot didn't burn. I'm not sure.

Now, you've got the improvements and your contents. So you take a lot of value off of your appraised value and now we've got a total loss. And that's what it is. It's rebuild. They're going to push it down rebuild it or give you the money to rebuild it.

Did you have a mortgage? Yes, sir. Yeah. Yeah. And so the mortgage companies involved in this as well.

Because they're one of the stated beneficiaries on the policy. All right. Yeah.

“I think if you've got new villages, I mean, you're only 24 hours in and before warned.”

Okay. Number one, you're only 24 hours in. Number two, the public adjusters that do a great job are the best. There's some of them that don't be careful with that.

Then the third thing is this is one of the most emotional things that can happen to someone.

Ever seen the list of like 10 things that if three of them happen in a year, you're in the hospital, it's like divorce, death of a parent, death of a child, major car accident, house burning, high stress, high trauma things. This is on the list of the top 10, okay? So you're 24 hours after a top 10 event and you're making a major decision.

So, you know, you do not have to retain them immediately. You could wait 24 more hours and just kind of let's some of the adrenaline go down because you're just re-erburning the candle right now, both ends. I mean, you've got to be emotionally fried, right? Yeah, it's pretty rough.

I would. I mean, obviously a lot. My girlfriend lived there with me and we had a full month off and everyone got out quick, but she was pretty hysterical. That's pretty heartbreaking to see the person you love like that.

Hey Daniel, I would be using good questions. I would interview this guy like he was going to be taking care of your baby, what are your goals? Add asking that. What is your goal with our case and have him state it, pushing, and then say, how

do you think you're going to accomplish that? Put him on the spot and trust your gut on the stuff. If he does a great job, he's going to get you more than 10% extra above what you would get if you handle the case by yourself.

That's always worth his money if he does a good job.

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Oh, I need some advice. Okay. So I've been with my partner for eight years, we have to children ages 3 and 6 and he's depressed that he doesn't want to get married, it's just a piece of paper to him and so it's been hard for me because I do want to get married.

Now financially, he takes care of me and the children, I have $25,000 in savings, but he has a lot more, he's going to inherit assets to buildings I believe and he has money from before, now we currently live in his home, his parent's home, which he owns with his brother because his parents are deceased, so we don't pay mortgage, he covers all the household expenses because I'm a state full mom and that's $2,000 to $4,000 a month and I do hostels here

and there, so I may be bringing $500 monthly, so we don't pay much. So I have two questions, should I just regard this and not care about marriage and should I invest those $25,000, I'm just afraid of something where to happen, how do I care for my children, so we're not married and I'm not entitled to anything is my fear. Yeah, if he up and dies or up and leaves, you're screwed.

“And so that's why I'm afraid to, if you're like a homeless single mom, no, I'm not funny”

at all. That's terrifying. Yeah. He doesn't understand this, he thinks it's going to be. I don't care if he understands it, that's the reality.

I'm scared of death for you. Yeah. You're very vulnerable, I definitely am, I feel it, stress out all the time. Yeah, it's an undercurrent in your house that you're not valuable enough to marry, but you're valuable enough to have kids with.

I'm sorry. Thank you. So, I don't think you're going to do anything about it, though, are you? I mean, you're a year, you're a years into this system. Yeah.

I just, I don't, I can't afford to move out and be a single mom, I'm hopefully starting on your job soon, but how much is that going to pay?

So, let's address your fear, okay, the fear is legit in the sense that you have no plan

right now, but the fear goes away when you have a plan. So you, you have got to start digging into what would have to be true for me to work

“a full-time job that would take care of me and the babies, right?”

Well, what would have to be true? I'd have to have affordable childcare, and we got to dig into that. If I can't afford daycare, what does that look like? I will tell you that there are solutions to this, but until you begin to dig and go get answers to the fear question, can I survive without him right now?

You're telling us no. That's not true, but you're going to have to go dig and figure this out, and you can do it.

You're going to tell you, if you were me, that answer that he gave that it's only a piece

of paper would be everything I need to know about being committed to this guy long term. And I think you're going to regret this, and this is going to eat away at you when you're an old lady. I think you're going to regret if you don't make a change at this very pivotal moment.

“So I think you got to say this guy, I disagree, but do you want to be with me, because if”

you do, it's marriage, and if it's not marriage, now we need to begin to decouple. And this is what it's going to mean. But I think you've got to, before you get to that point, you got to go, what does it look like for me to be able to take care of myself and those kids, and that $25,000 cash becomes an emergency fund if you have no debt.

Do you have any debt? I don't. How old are your kids? 36. Little boy, little girl.

Yes. What do you want this for her, your daughter? I don't know. No, then fix it, then fix it, because you're modeling for her that this is the way life's supposed to be, and it's not.

Yeah. It's not. You're being held hostage, and financially, and you feel it, you feel vulnerable, you feel disrespected, and that's in the air of your house, and it's translating into your daughter's body, and she thinks this is how men are supposed to treat women, and it's not.

Fix it. You've got to stand up and fix it, and amazingly, June your May decide he wants to pain or get off the ladder. I don't know, but I'm not sure he's worth it, but Mr. I've got, I inherited my mommy's house with my brother.

Oh, Lou, aren't you a dad-gun producer? You're killing me here. And so, yeah, I'm not impressed. So, sorry. This is two in a row.

They got last got with the house fire, same thing, it's four year old kid, and his girlfriend is hysterical, living together. So, here's the data folks. If you are 35 to 54 years old, this is actual data. We just got a hold of the other day.

The average married couple has a net worth of 329,000, 50% over 50% of the couples in America living together are not married in America right now. We have more unmarried people shaking up than married people shaking up, right now. But the data says it's not working financially, and the data says it's not working relationally.

“So, here's the thing, married couples on average 329,000 between 35 to 54 years old.”

Unmarried male, not 300,000, 84, 87,000. So, one fourth of the net worth, if you're an unmarried male, so if he wants to know why he should get married, that's the reason. Unmarried female, one tenth, 35,000, one tenth, 10% of the net worth. And that's where she's sitting right now.

She's sitting with 10% of his net worth, or 10% of an unmarried guy's net worth. But 10% of what she would have had had, she'd been married for these eight years on average. That's the averages, okay.

The average married couple, 65, and above, 608,000, unmarried male, 218, one third, unmarried

female, one 74, 25%. That worth, 40% of all the public are married, 75% of a millionaires are. You getting it yet, married males, outlive unmarried males, an average of eight years, married females, outlive unmarried females by four years. Make sure survival rate among married people, 20% higher than unmarried people.

This used to be a show where people would call up, and I'd say, your car is stupid, sell

the car.

“It's gotten to where the answer to every question is, get married.”

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Lori is in Canada, Hi, Lori, welcome to the Ramsyship. [Music] Hello, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. How are you today?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Wonderful. Thank you.

I'm looking for some, I guess, tough love if it's at all needed, but just kind of my

back story here, I'm going to be reaching the end of Baby Step 2 at the end of April, which is so excited and so I'm so happy I've been working myself for the phone. Congratulations. Thank you. And then for Baby Step 3, it won't take me long.

I have very low expenses, I'm planning to save about 6,000 for a three month emergency fund. And so by early June, but only mid June, I should be about done doing those two steps. Now I'm trying to plan for after Baby Step 3 and maybe scaling back from my part time job because I'm working two jobs right now, $70 a week.

And I'm feeling a bit nervous to lose that extra 2,000 a month in income. And so I'm looking for some advice on how to bail back from a gazelle and tentative mindset and nurture a prosperity mindset after I'm done Baby Step 3. Very wise. Good for you.

When you're running wide open and you cross the finish line, you don't suddenly stop. It takes a few steps to slow down. You don't want to talk about that one at a time. Think of a sprinting of foot race, like a 40-yard day, you're not going to slow down. It's going to be a few yards after that for you to slow down.

But by the time you get out there 100 yards after the finish line, you'll be back to a normal pace again. So it takes a minute to slow down, that's thing one thing, two is, anytime you're looking at something and I have anxiety about it or worry about it, you said, facts are your friends. So look at your budget.

“I think you're doing a detailed monthly budget, aren't you?”

I sure am, yeah, I understand, instead of white noise, instead of white noise, instead of white knuckling the budget, look at the budget and go, now that I have no payments, how much room there is, oh my goodness. And so that gives you mathematical, tells your brain, the math tells your brain, it's okay to slow down.

It may take your heart a minute to catch up, but your brain will go, oh, we're okay.

part-time job towards the debt and then towards the emergency fund, right?

Correct. So that means when you do away with the part-time job mathematically, they're still the more than part, the margin. So you're okay, math says that, but what you're trying to adjust for is the emotions, but I'm telling you, emotions are something you tell what to do, they don't tell you what

to do.

“Yeah, you know, I'm listening to you, and I think you a little exercise would be what”

is my focus now. You know, we hear a lot about what's my why and you're, you're, you're getting through this because you want to be free, but it's really what am I doing in order to get the why. And so now as you move out of baby set three, ask yourself, what am I intentional about

now? Because you've been intense, super intense, now let's move from intensity to intentionality. And so now ask yourself, what is my financial focus now, right?

And baby step four, super clear, we're trying to build wealth now.

And so I think if you can reframe into the next what, I think it will naturally help you slow down as Dave gave the beautiful metaphor there, kind of out of a sprint. How long have you been fighting this? I've been at this baby step two since February of last year, so 70 hour weeks for a year plus.

No, no, the 70 hours a week was a very recent addition before I was working about 50 to 60 hours a week. So I've been at it for. You've been at it. You've been hard at it.

“So my point is this, when you stretch something to this degree that's never been stretched”

before, it's impossible for it to return to the same shape. So you can, we have the number of people that, the number of people that we coach that do what you have done, they go back to being irresponsible, dofuses with credit cards. It's almost zero. I don't want to go back.

I don't think I was going to go back. I don't think I was going to go back. If you didn't do this for two months, you might go back. But when you've been fighting it like this by yourself for a year, scratching and clawing and we can hear the visceral intensity in your voice, kiddo, I love talking to you because

you're like passionate, you're getting it. You are getting it.

And so that tells me that you have stretched to a place you've never stretched before, and

you will not return to the same shape. And so you're, you're, you're, you're, you're great. You're going to be fine. You're going to be great and just be intentional, not intense. If you just tell your money what to do, you're going to have money the rest of your life.

That's all you got to do. Just tell it what to do. You don't have to freak out. You don't have to work like a crazy person. You don't have to do beans and rice.

You don't have to do gazell intensity. You just got to tell it what to do. That's intentional versus intensity. Stay on every dollar budget, the rest of your life. And watch your net worth climb as Ken said, have a new target that you're aiming at.

And it's one that is a little bit more joyful and comfortable than running from the wolf of debt. Yeah. That's chasing you through the forest. Yeah.

It's really true. Your brain and heart, your nervous system, all of that, it's been really, yeah. And it will adjust, by the way, when you adjust your new focus, that's, it's a miracle of where our brains works, all this research on focus. Every reason, hard for Connecticut, hey, everybody, what's up?

Hi, Dave. It's a pleasure talking to you. I'm very excited. Honored to have you. How can we help?

So, my fiance and I are getting married in October. Yay. Trying to stress the importance of budgeting. But my question is, do we budget together when we don't have visibility into each other's finances?

We should be budgeted together or separately.

“You should budget separately, but you can do some practice budgets together as”

part of your pre-marriage counseling. In other words, you actually run your money separate until you're married. Do not combine finances or someone you're not married to. Then after you get home from the honeymoon, you can do what you've been practicing. So sit down and do a role play almost and say, oh, let's pretend this month we were

married. What it would look like. And you put all your money in the table, I put all my money on the table, and put all our bills on the table, and we go, okay, what will we do with our money this month? And that'll create a really good fight.

Yes, it will reveal expectations, and it'll be great, it'll be great for your pre-marriage counseling. You're really well. Because where you spend your money reveals your dreams, your fears, your values. You just said your treasure is where your heart is, and so you're a spender.

He's a saver or the other way around. One of you grew up in a household where people didn't care about money and the other one and they were screaming about it all the time. So all these things are going to start coming out when you start looking at this together, but the money is not actually the thing.

It's revealing who the two of you are and what your differences are that'll work for you

So I'm not the natural saver at my house, my wife Sharon is.

So that's our natural safe guard. She's a straight up tightwood. She saves everything.

“There's way too many leftovers in my refrigerator and I have a net worth of hundreds of millions”

of dollars and there's freaking leftovers in my refrigerator. It's awful y'all. I'm complaining right now. I like Dail's spaghetti. I'm just going to put it out.

You can come to my house anytime and so we get it a lot, but it's her nature though. And I love that and I'll have a lot of problems in my life but my wife being spending money like a crazy person is not going to be one of her husband on the other hand. Me, I have, I'm the spender by nature and thank God I like making money because I've

been good at spending it.

So you know, you learn about these things when you start working this together, Avery. So make sure you get, get the every dollar budget out and run on half, run, run, get the app out and run a budget as if you were a married but don't combine your finances until you are married and do get some good in-depth pre-marriage counseling. It's one of the indicators of a marriage that lasts, by the way, because you get to talk

about what's wrong with her mother. I mean, his mother. I mean, you're dad.

“I mean, can you imagine that the pre-marriage counseling my kids went through?”

You're marrying into the Ramses. Talk about fraught with danger. No comment. There's no air. There's no air at the table.

No. I mean, you got Rachel Cruz, me, there's no, no, there's no room for another word and I'm just saying. And you still get to the finest dudes on the planet. You get two good sons and longs. I'm telling you that.

I don't know. How would this grade? You really did. They did. They did.

We taught them how to pick.

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It's an advertising results may vary in no specific outcomes guaranteed. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wands Credit Union Studio. Again, call the number one best selling author host of Front Row C, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today, Megan's in Phoenix. Hey, Megan, what's up?

Hi, Dave.

First of all, pleasure talking to you.

I love your face and God. And it's just very good to be on here. But I was a kindergarten teacher who left teaching to be home with my kids and I found myself doing contract work and just private tutoring to make money. But then I did not pay my quarterly taxes.

And now I found myself in a pickle where now I can't afford to pay my taxes. So I didn't pay the quarterly taxes past two years and now I'm thinking I just working to pay that on paid tax. Like, did I screw my family over in the sense? Okay, so a portion of the money that you made shouldn't have come out to pay quarterly

taxes, correct? Yes, it definitely should have. And now you're having to pay it, but you already used the money before. So I don't know how you found my gut screwed over. Your family got the benefit of money that really wasn't theirs in the earlier years.

And so you didn't screw anybody over, you just, but you create a mess, obviously, by not taking a bit, by not taking care of business. So what's the tax bill? For 2024's 13,000 and this past year, it's going to be 11,000.

Yes, yes.

Okay, and what does he make?

He makes 85.

“Okay, and how much money do you all have in savings?”

All right, we have about 1500's. Okay, all right, and how much debt do you guys have other than the IRS? We have about 70,000 in debt between cars and student loans. Okay, all right, and what do you owe on the cars, how much of that's cars? 26.

Okay, thank you. All right, and so you've got about 44 and student loans? Yeah, yes. Okay. All right.

So, and 24 to the IRS, I mean, the KGB.

Yeah. Okay, so if you owe 13, that means you probably made close to 50. Yes. Okay, and so are you planning to make 50 this year? I'll make a little less than that, and I will say for this year, I do have money set aside

to pay quarterly taxes for this year. No, but I mean, if you, okay, why would you make a little less when you have a problem? You would make more. You work more. All right, one of the things that I did for contract work isn't, isn't the thing anymore.

It was working with migrant students and that program, but it's gone. Okay, all right, I can imagine. All right, but you're going to have to take on a bunch more of the other kinds of students, not only to offset that, but to, you know, you've got to grow this business in order to pay this.

Okay, so basically, we're going to work a debt snowball, which means you have $94,000

in debt, but anytime you're working the debt snowball, the IRS is first, and you and your husband have a household income of about 135, and every dime of that, we can squeeze out of our monthly budget, we're going to throw at the IRS until it's gone, and they're going to be cleaned up in about a year or sooner, and they need to be cleaned up in a sooner, really.

And then you're also going to think about, is the 26,000, one car, yes, it is. Okay, that may be something that has to go away too in order to make this work. The car payment on that substantial, and getting rid of that, and anything he can do to pick up extra work, is there anything you could do in addition to tutoring to create income for a short period of time to clean up the mess?

I mean, I can pick up more clients, and I know that's a, it's a trade-off with that, is being at home and taking care of my kids. Yeah. It's the problem. If we don't have any family around, it's going to kind of help with that.

Yeah.

“You need to solve for that on the short term.”

Yeah. It's not a long-term prison sentence, but you need to create income because of this faux pie, because of this mess. Yeah. And if you create the income, it's going to make the mess go away, and you're going to get

your life back, because if you didn't have a car payment in you didn't have the IRS, and you were making, you know, 40 or 50,000 without having strain on the kids, and he's making 85, you guys could work through the risk that does snowball fairly easy, but these two things are the glaring problems in my face, and I'm like, it's 50,000 of your 94 as those two things.

Right. Yeah. Half of it. Megan, let me ask you a fun question, okay? If I told you that you could have $100,000 cash in three days, but for three days,

you had to work a 10-hour shift, and you had to, in order to do that, you had to have somebody to watch your kids for three days. And I gave you a week to come up with childcare for three straight days. Could you do it? Yes.

100%. So, I'm not, I'm trying to be nice about this, but when I hear this defeatist attitude towards

“childcare, and I hear it a lot, I think you got to get more innovative, and that's why I created”

a fantastical scenario for you to get your mind to say you would pull it off. The good news is, it only takes a year of being completely out of control crazy, some kind of very discomfort, uncomfortable thing that you do for a year. This is not saying, I'm going to raise my children this way. It's not saying for the next decade, the kids are going to be in this situation.

I'm going to be in this situation, but this tax thing has highlighted the fact that you all really are not in very good shape financially, and you've got to, you can, for a short period of time, you've got to punch us as hard as you can punch it. And when you do that, I think you can move the needle. So I'm going to go completely crazy with your income.

I'm going to look at him picking up an extra job.

“I'm going to get on every dollar budget.”

We're not going out to each. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there, and you're not going on vacation. You're broke, and you owe the IRS, because you screwed up and didn't pay your quarterly. And you have got to clean this up, because the penalties are unbelievable.

The interest is unbelievable. Every day that sits out there is just killing you. Matter of fact, if you can go borrow on a credit card and pay them off, I would, because you're just moving one debt to another debt, in this case, because they have unlimited power to come screw with your life. They're unbelievable work with and not a good way.

So yeah, put them on a payment plan so that you don't have them coming after you, garnishing your wages or hitting your checking accounts or anything else, and then get rid of that debt as soon as you can.

It's the first thing to go, and of course, meanwhile, you're paying the quarterly on your

current situation. Ouch. That'll bite you. Dave, real quick, I'd love for you to give us any answers to what is the psychology that is necessary when you get yourself in a big financial hole, and it feels impossible to get

out of. You've done it. She feels it. And I sympathize with that, but what is that, what's going on psychologically that has to be defeated?

You can do anything for 90 days. You can do anything for 90 days. As a matter of fact, you can do anything for 180 days. If it changes the whole rest of your life, it's not a death sentence for 10 years, but the next 10 weeks are going to really suck.

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Maria is in Orlando, hi, Maria, how are you? I'm doing great. Thank you for this, Michael. I, I didn't know what to begin, I'm saying to myself.

I have some credit card that, that long story short, I basically ignored for the

last several months. You know, a couple of them have gone into collection, and I'm just hoping you can help me to allow how to stick with these collectors the bad I can and pay what I'm able to pay and get out of this whole, I put myself there until. How much credit card that, huh?

About $18.000. What do you make here?

“Um, it's very, but roughly 50, 5, and why have you been ignoring them?”

I was actually paying them off and then last summer, I had some big loss of income compared to the previous summer, and I had some medical bills, and I paid off the medical bills and I collected the credit card ones and kind of just snowballed from there. Okay. And, are you single?

No, I'm married, my husband could not know I have to.

Why?

“And it's mostly because I've just, in there, I don't know.”

You guys have separate finances? So that's how it does he make? Um, he's retired now, so he has to, um, just for security, uh, every year, and then he's for one game, he's speaking to someone else. Now, how much is that in the 401k?

I don't know. Yeah, you do. I have no idea. You don't know if it's 10,000 or 10 million? No.

You have one joint think of count, I know how much is in that account. I don't touch the, the, the joint account. Because you've done this before, and he keeps everything from you.

Um, I haven't really done it before, but he's always, we've come to the beginning of

always kind of wanted to have my own stuff or thing. Um. Yeah, that's not working for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And, um, how long you'll be married? 16 years. Okay.

“Why have you not told him, because you're ashamed, you said that.”

Yeah. Yeah. Does he have any dad? She doesn't know? No, we don't.

There's a, no, no. How do you know? Because he has done most of your big steps. But you don't know what's in the 401k, but you're sure you don't have any dad. That's inconsistent.

No, no, that. I can guarantee that. Because how the spade off cards are paid off? No, that. Okay.

I don't see it. I was paying. Some of it is because I was paying off the credit card. And we just paid off the cards last year or the year before. How much money is in the joint account?

Um. I'd have to look again. Probably like 50. 50. 15.

15. Okay. All right.

So here's what this is about.

This is about behavior. It's not about dead collectors. This is about shame and marriage. And you don't want to come clean because the instant you come clean. First off, he's going to be disappointed and rightly so.

And you're hiding this number one. But number two, you're doing it at all because he's. He's very good with money. And he's not going to be happy that you aren't. And then he's got the money.

He probably got a million dollars in a stink in 401k. You write a check and pay this thing off. And that's actually what ought to happen because a married couple. One of them doesn't know it yet. O's 18,000 dollars.

So sorry, dude. But then what you owe him, Maria, is the two of you get on the same page and handle money together for the rest of your lives. Full transparency. Period. This end, I'm going to be independent and then go do stupid stuff.

He's got a stop. It's killing your girl. It's eating you up. You're not even sleeping good because of this. No.

No. Scary. And here's the weird thing. As soon as you sit down with him, that's going to be a really difficult two hour discussion. And the next day, you're going to feel a hundred pounds lighter.

Because you've been carrying deception around in the name of shame. And if you're not careful, it becomes an identity. And then you've got a real problem. And it's not an identity. It's just you screwed up.

You did a thing. But that's not who you are.

“You are not defined by the worst thing you ever did in your life.”

Nor are you defined by the best thing you ever did in your life. So, there's more to it than that. So, yeah. I think you got to sit down with him tonight. And then you guys need a new system.

Your system sucks. This I do my thing you do your thing. It's not working. So, you guys need to be on the same page. And it sounds like this.

Honey, I need your help. I need to know what's going on with the money and not because I want to mess up your stuff. But because I want to get in on how good a job you've been doing. And I want you and I to work together. And I want to see everything that's going on with the retirement in case you die.

I'm going to need to know what you want me to do. But you don't want him to die.

And him have a million dollars worth of investing.

Investments and you don't have any idea how to do it. Because you have this all separated. And now you're just out in the cold with a bunch of money. And you don't want, you don't want to live in shame either. Please do not let the sun go down with a secret.

Let it go. Okay.

Tonight you tell him, okay.

Say, say, okay. No, I will talk to him. Okay. And tell him, every bit of this. It's a child, okay.

Yeah. And just I am, you know, I didn't want to tell you because I'm ashamed. I feel inept. And I need your help. I need to work together with you on money from now on.

The way we've been doing it for 16 years is not working. I'm not as good at it as you are. I don't want you to do it all by yourself. I want us to do it together so that I know how to do this. In case something happens to you.

Yeah, Maria. Just real quick. Do you trust him? Yeah. Yeah.

I know.

I asked an obvious question because I want you to hear it.

Well, let me ask you this. What do you think? What do you think his reaction would have been if a couple years ago.

“Before he got into this mess, you said, you know what?”

I want to have combined finances. I want to do this together. I think you're better at it than me. And you know what you're doing. What would his reaction have been?

Yeah. Yeah. So I wasn't bringing this up. It's because emotionally I want you to hear that that kind of guy who you love and respect, who would have been on board with this from day one, while he will be disappointed.

I think this a good man. And I think he's going to welcome you going. You messed up. I don't want to ever do this. 18,000 dollars is the cost of us getting on the same page.

I think he's going to give you the trick. I think so too. That's what I'm getting. Yeah. And I hope that takes the job.

I'm going to be well invested. Yeah. Because you write. I'll guarantee he's loaded. I just have lunch.

There's a million dollars in that 401k ever.

It's a dime. I think you're right. I absolutely felt that. Yeah. And I feel for her too.

“And I get that's why, by the way, she's so shaped.”

You nailed it. It's a shame because he's been so good with money. Yeah. It's just the weight of something like that is multiplied every day. You carry a secret.

And when you shine light on stuff, the bugs run to the corner. The roaches run for the hills, man. They get out there and do little dances in the dark. But it's hard for demons to exist when you shine light. Demons don't like light.

They run. So just when you just lay everything out, there's no place to hide. You just gotta be who you is then. Ah, so clean.

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Addison and Autumn are where there's hey guys, how are you? Good, how are you doing? Better than I deserve, what are y'all live? We live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Fine, welcome to Nashville.

And how much debt have you two paid off? You paid off $184,000. Good, niche. How long did that take? 32 months.

Wow. And your range of income during that time? It went for a month. What do you two do for a living? I work in a family business doing July.

Awesome.

“And you're making a couple hundred a year between those two.”

Action. What kind of debt was 184,000 and 32 months? You paid off your house. You two, weirdo. How old are you guys?

I'm 26. I'm 27. And you paid off a house. Yeah. I'm 27.

And you paid off a house. Yeah. I can't, I'm speechless. That's amazing. Congratulations.

So I'm 184,000 out of mortgage. What's the house worth? It's around 340 somewhere down there. Okay. How long have you two been married?

Almost a year. Yeah. You're an April. So you got married, bought a house.

And the first order of business is 32 months later paid off.

Well, the house was already bought. Oh, it was already bought. Yes. You bought the house the week that we went on our first day in that. Oh.

Yeah. So you were stuck with it. Yeah. I don't know. I like it.

Okay. Yeah. I was stuck with a paid for house. Now, what'd you say? It's worth again.

Like 340. Okay. And it's a paid for house in Lincolnshire, Pennsylvania. Yes. Wow.

Man. That's amazing. So what in the world? And you're 24 and 26? 26 and 27.

26 and 27. Yeah. Okay. All right. Wow.

Well, you know, all we hear about all the time in the negative things in the media is that Genzy, your generation is stuck. They can't buy a house.

It's not affordable out there.

It's impossible. Yeah. You went and bought one the week. You started dating and convinced this young lady to marry you. And help you pay it off.

Yeah. Yeah. How does it. Where do you? Where do you people come from?

How does this happen? How do you get? How do you run into the Ramsey stuff? Well, we grew. Like, our parents had, like, grew us up with Ramsey principles and, like, the envelope system.

And so, yeah. Both sets of parents? Yeah. Yes. Both of you are financial peace babies.

Pretty much. Yeah. Oh, my God. To ask the obvious question. Was this an arranged marriage?

No. No. No. But the parents were happy about it. Yeah.

The one my dad was very happy. I think you found a good one. She knows about the envelopes. Wow. This is incredible.

I'm serious. You had to go home. When y'all both discovered that both your parents were doing the Ramsey stuff, that had to be a little weird. Yeah.

It definitely was. But it was really exciting. Because it was like, all of them had the same values as I did.

“Which, I mean, honestly, transformed it.”

It translated into the rest of our marriage. And it was just like, wow. This is very easy. I mean, this is so simple. It's a simple plan.

And we were able to work together on it seamlessly. Yeah. How did y'all meet? It's a blind date. A blind date.

Yeah. Wow. Okay. So you weren't like going to the same church or something. No.

Because I thought maybe your parents, if they gone through FPU together, there might be too much. All right. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Pretty incredible. But we just made a lot of really, like, why is financial decisions? Right. We were like 1819.

So we like cash loop college and like bought cars. We could afford and, you know, all the things that you teach. So when you entered into this, all there was was the mortgage. Yeah. And it was brand new.

Yeah. We just got it when you started date. Yeah. Then you get married and 32 months. So you did about 60,000 a year for three years.

Yeah. You ever take around 5,000 bucks a month. Mm-hmm. Making 127 to a high of 200. Yeah.

You lived on nothing to do. Yeah. Y'all pretty intense. Not going to mortgage out. It doesn't really feel like nothing now.

We just followed our budget. Okay. All right. Let's get into this. What was your budget in year one of your marriage?

Based on what income at that time. Based on roughly, I mean, it was $127,000 a year. And so we just, I guess it was like 8,000 a month. I guess. All right.

So what was the, what were their bills?

“If you just, if you can remember, what was your bill?”

To cover all your expenses out of that. Oh boy. Roughly. I'm not holding to the put my 5,000 a month ever. Yes.

And it definitely near the end is when we started piling it on a lot more. There might be three grand in the early years. And six grand or eight grand in the years. And as autumn's business, as autumn's photography business started to grow. She definitely is picking up a lot more weddings.

And yeah, the money just kind of started rolling in.

I was like, well, this is amazing.

Yeah. And we based our budget mostly off of his income because I was really consistent. Mm-hmm. So then anything extra that I made. That was above the minimum amount that we set aside and planned for that I would make.

We just threw on the house. Yeah. That was just our goal. Yeah. So the pull the taxes, the rest of that.

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Good for y'all. So proud of you.

I know your mom and dad are proud of you. Both of you. Yeah. And they all came. Yes.

Both sets of parents came into a self-right. They're in a nice form. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing.

Very, very cool. All right. Well, this just kind of makes the case of it's very important to choose a good mate. Oh, yeah. We've been talking about these values of marriage earlier.

And this really illustrates it.

Here's what I want to know because we put it to you guys.

Like you guys were super intense and autumn your response was, it was fine. We live within the budget. That speaks to contentment. Mm-hmm. So as a young couple, you're starting out and the world is your oyster.

Right? How did you develop that contentment?

“Was it a discipline thing or was it the way you were raised?”

I'd love to know why you were so content. It was definitely the way we were raised, but also like we're Christians. Like we knew that there was joy and contentment and just not comparing ourselves to anybody else. So it was just like how we could keep our keep looking at it. Like each other and just connecting with each other.

Yeah. Yeah. And we made the budget together and we were both like, okay, we still did so many fun things to. So. I just don't sense a lot of time spent with Instagram influencers.

No. I mean, Instagram. I don't know. Well, you have a child.

I mean, you have a photography.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think you're sitting there doom scrolling one thing stuff. I mean, it's just no. Yeah, that's not you.

Yes. Matter of fact, there's some data out right now.

“There shows the amount of hours spent on Instagram equals the number of dollar spent.”

It's ridiculous. Yeah. Okay, quick follow up for this young couple because a lot of young couples listening to this. They think. I like camera.

Amazing. How are your, what are your dreams? Give us, you don't have to give this grand plan or share something you don't want to share. But how are your dreams or is there something that has changed now? The realize that you guys have zero debt.

The house included and you're 26 and 27.

Yeah. It's kind of surreal because like I, it's something that as I bought the house as I was like working. Like right out of high school at 18, because something that I was like striving for. Like I knew I went into buy a house and I knew I went into to pay it off. And then to marry someone who had the same values and like when she, like we wanted to pay it off right away.

So it was just like it was really cool to be able to work on that, work on that together and enjoy that life together. So now looking forward. I don't know. I mean, we're just excited to build well together and build a life there. It's good for our family.

And we set a goal and we wanted to do in five years before I was 30. And we ended up doing it way quicker and less than three. Congrats. So I think that's just like so motivating and encouraging. Like when we set a goal, we can work towards that together and just be on the same page.

And like, yeah, it can be go faster than we really ever expected it to go.

“What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt?”

Honestly, contentment. Like you're talking about just keeping your eyes fixed on the goal that you have as a couple or as a family. Sticking to your budget. So having that have that conversation together and we're both okay with every line on it and how much you're giving. And so yeah.

Yeah. Now that you're 100% free. No payment at all. Does it feel different than you thought it would feel? Yeah, it's just kind of like unadventful because life still goes away.

We were living in the house. Nobody shot all fireworks back yard. No. Yeah. I was sick when we paid our last mortgage payment, too.

So it really felt just like. Yeah. Yeah. I got the flu on your face. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we're going to celebrate today. We're going to have fireworks going crazy. We're so proud of y'all. Y'all are amazing.

You're like the perfect couple. Now you, Jen Sears, here's your poster children right here. Add a set in autumn, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, 184,000 paid off, house, and everything in 32 months. From 26 years old and 27 years old, count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream! Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah!

[ Cheers and applause ] [ Cheers and applause ] Wow. [ Cheers and applause ] [ Cheers and applause ]

[ Cheers and applause ] [ Cheers and applause ] [ Cheers and applause ] [ Cheers and applause ] It's interesting.

I was checking out at a place of the day, and young men working in the valley, to high schoolers. One of them was in our classes in high school. And he's like, "Hey, man, stuff on YouTube, man.

Cool, thank you, man." All the stuff. And he said, "So give me," one of the other one pipes up. And he said, "Give me a proverb, Dave."

Where's that comment from?

Because I'm a love proverb, and this kid must actually known something about who we were. And so, because if you read Proverbs, the book of wisdom and the Bible over and over, you have a master's degree in finance.

And it happened to be the 22nd of March. And I said, "Well, here's one for you." Proverbs 227 says, "The rituals over the poor and the borrowers slave to the lender." Oh, by the way, here's an interesting thing.

Proverbs 226 says, "Train up a child in the way he should go." And when he is old, he will not depart from it. And I keep in mind that there are not numbers in the original Scriptures.

And so there's no 226, 227. So, if you actually just read that,

“it says, "Train up a child in the way you should go”

when he's old, he'll not depart from it." The rituals over the poor and the borrowers slave to the lender. "Train up a kid that to stay out of debt." But we separate those because Proverbs are very disconnected sayings and we don't usually put them together.

And I said, "Train your kids up to stay out of debt." And so, "Train them up when they go on a dating website to find another family that went through financial peace." When you change your family tree, here's how you do it. You cannot change your family tree simply by stacking cash.

If you raise idiots, they will go through everything you made no matter what you make. If you leave idiots money, there will be no money. It will not survive one generation. No kidding, we all know that.

I mean, you can't leave them 100 million dollars.

They'll still blow it. You can't stack enough cash to leave it to idiots. So, the way you change your family tree has two components to it. One is, you raise godly, strong, contented young men and women

“that find each other and choose to marry someone like them”

and you leave them a stack of cash. In this case, this young couple has not had yet the inheritance of the stack of cash that is waiting on both of them probably. But, instead, they are already almost a millionaires at 26 and 27 with a paid for house, been married only three years

in 32 months paid off their house. But, mom and dad changed their family tree by teaching in both cases these kids were raised in an environment of biblical wisdom, common sense, ways of handling money, get out of that, stay out of that, be on a budget,

they're financial peace babies. They don't have credit cards. They're not motivated by the name brand on your purse. They're not motivated by filling the blank of stupid stuff that people in America do.

And that consequently, your broke spending money that you don't have to buy things you really can't afford to impress people you don't even really like. That's the opposite of what we're talking about. And this young couple is like,

this is like every parent's dream come true, not only to raise one, but then have them marry another one. Oh my gosh, that's awesome. Isn't that the most fun thing you could think of?

“The only thing I would add to that is if you had somehow”

officiated the wedding. That would have happened. You asked me, was there any more fun? That would have probably been. I mean, I would have been quite, you know,

you just have been pretty, pretty boring. It's a guest pastor. That's not a, that would not be a good thing. To see you in a talks would be also exciting. A little, a little, yeah, we're not even getting this.

You ask, you just keep it up, can't you? The question was proverbial. Yeah. That was, it was rhetorical. That's the word rhetorical.

That's the part where you're quiet. Yeah. I tried to be when you're on. I really do. That's a great story.

The point is the way you change your family tree is you change the mathematics of your situation, your net worth. Instead of retiring and having to eat dog food and calling up your relatives for money because you're broke. And you worked your whole wife and you have nothing to show for it

because you spend everything you made your whole stinking life. Instead of doing that, you changed your life. Yeah. In the process, your kids watched. And it changes their life.

That's right. And then they become a better version of you. And a wiser version of you. And you've changed your family tree. Add to that a high net worth.

And now you've got amazing things that happen.

So if you studied the Old Testament, for instance, you would know that inheritance is very biblical. When done properly. And when understood, it's actually God's money that you're managing. So see, David was prevented from building the temple

because of misbehavior. And named Bathsheba, who's UFO, an unclad female object. And so yeah, he was prevented from building the temple. So his son, Solomon, built the temple.

His own money? No. With David's money. It was inherited money that built the temple.

And it was somewhere around $20 billion in today's dollars

to build that structure. If you do the biblical money narrative and you fast forward that with inflation several thousand years, you get a, you know, a ridiculous amount of money. So this billionaire left a billions of dollars to his son

who built the temple inherited money. Built the temple. On the temple mound in Jerusalem. That's interesting when you think about it. So this idea of generational change is entirely possible.

And it can go negative and it can go positive. But you've got the ability to change your family tree. And that last couple, man. That's just everything that's the whole thing. So if you're working the baby steps,

we want to get you on every dollar.

“Because that's what everybody says when they're doing their debt free”

scream, what do you tell people to get you out of debt?

As I say it over and over and over again. And all the time, what do they say? God be working together. God be working together. God be working together on a budget.

God be on a budget. We have to be on a budget. Every dollar. We love every dollar. Every dollar got us out of debt.

Well, every dollar will get you out of debt. Because it not only is a budgeting app, but also hand spoon feed you all the Ramsey insights to make you do the budget the correct way to work our system. And if you don't work our system,

you're really not going to like every dollar. Because we're going to be like up in your face,

going, this is the fastest way to get out of debt

and build wealth and be outrageously generous and change your whole family tree. It's every dollar. And it's free. You can download it at the App Store or Google Play.

Ta-da. Just like that. David is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. David, how are you? I'm doing well. How about you, David Kim?

Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? So I'm a Lutheran pastor. And my question is, should I opt out of so security? And what steps should I take if I do so? Because I mean you've been mentioning changing your family tree.

If I did that, I'd actually change my family tree with investing and also helping out fellow Christians as I mean as a part of that. How old are you, David? I'm 28.

Perfect. Great question. And I've counseled pastors. Financial Patients University's been taught in 50,000 churches in the past 25 years.

So I've been asked this question a lot. And here's the three or four components to the situation. Number one, Social Security provides three things. Disability in the event you became completely disabled.

“So you need to make sure you have disability insurance.”

You need that anyway, whether you're so scared or not. If you die, your children, your minor children will get money from Social Security. They won't get that if you opt out. So you need life insurance. You need that anyway.

About 10 to 12 times your income. So those are the two main things. And of course you're going to retire. And so you're not going to have Social Security when you retire if you opt out. And so you need to be investing for retirement.

But you need to be doing that anyway because Social Security is not enough. You dog food if you're on Social Security. So you have to do those three things if you opt out because you're vulnerable if you don't. Disability insurance, life insurance, and make sure you're saving for retirement. The fourth component is the IRS paperwork says that if in order to opt out you have to be a conscientious objecter.

Which means I object to the Social Security system on a spiritual basis. Okay. Not just I don't like it. Okay. I as a Christian could object to it.

I can't because I'm a pastor. I'm not a pastor. But I could object to it on a spiritual basis saying it's a horrible use of God's money. It's bad stewardship. And so I easily could sign that in good conscience.

“But you need to be able to sign that in good conscience and say spiritually, I disagree with the Social Security system.”

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. And the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality. No one bestowing author is my co-host.

D is an El Paso Texas. Hi. How are you? Good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm yes. So my husband's done a lot of our landscaping budget on trying to get grass to grow in the desert. Is it fair for me to ask him to spend feudal grass spending from his fun money?

I got to know this number.

“Well, like in a summer season between side and seed and water, it's probably like 250 to 300 bucks.”

Out of our $500 budget. You're $500 budget for what? The $500 is the line item for landscaping? Yeah. I like a season.

Okay. It's not a lot. Okay. And what's your household income? I mean, it's a trivial amount compared to our budget.

What's your household income? What? Uh, sorry. $210,000. $210,000.

Okay. And so, yeah, and it's. So, is it the futility that bothers you? I think so.

And we just have, like, even though we have a high income, we have a lot of other things that

we're putting that money towards. So it's like, we've carved out this number that we agree on. And yeah, so maybe it is the futility. And I don't mind it that he wants to experiment with growing grass. But this is three seasons now.

So is it fair to just call it a hobby? How much does he enjoy it? Apparently, a lot.

“Well, does he enjoy it or does he just feel like it's really ugly?”

And it's more of a thing that bothers him versus he's really loving the time spent on it. That's what I'm trying to get out. I think that he's an analytical person who doesn't like to lose. And so, I see it like it's almost like sistercy and. Me against the grass.

By the way, great word. You win the color of the day for using that word. That's fabulous. And him trying to beat the sun is. That's a tough one.

That's a tough one on one bow.

The futility seed is another one. There's some great lines. Oh, man. Okay. Because it is a very small amount of your world.

And it gives him joy. I don't care which line item it's in. It still leaves your house. They're still spending $250 on futility regardless of. Wait, you what you label it.

You could label it futility in the budget. Have you customized the futile seed budget? That's a different kind of utility. And so you put it right there under subset of landscaping. And it's, you know, you name it what it is.

But it still leaves your budget. I mean, if you take it out of his hobby. Oh, you're saying though it doesn't leave your budget. Because you're saying you would not increase his hobby by that amount. Right.

Oh. And you've got another line item. You want that money to go to, correct? Yes. Which one?

What is it? We're saving to put in a seed structure in our backyard. Oh, what structure? Like a shade on a shade structure. Okay.

Okay. And what does the shade structure cost? Uh, it'll be about seven grand. Okay. All right.

“And so it's $250 a month for six months is $1,500, right?”

Yeah. Okay. All right. So I think the way this would sound at our house. Okay.

Net net. I agree with you that this is feudal probably. And net net. I agree that it's cool for him to want to do it anyway. And net net.

We're all in agreement on these three things. You have the money. It's no big deal. Okay. So it's not killing your family.

Your children have diapers. All that. I mean, we're okay. Well, um, the, uh, uh, so at our house, it would sound something like this. Look, it's bother.

Sure, Sharon would say it's bothering me. That we're wasting money on X because we're saving for Y. And I think we could get there faster. And I'll say, yeah, but it would bother me to not do this futility seeds. I need to do those.

It's good for me. And so I'll cut the, I'll cut the budget. Some other places and let you get. Let's get the shade thing a little faster by cutting in other areas. And she and I would end up negotiating some other area that we cut.

That didn't mean as much to either one of us. Because in this case, this actually means something to him. He has a valid vote in this process. It means something to you to increase the speed at which we buy the shelter from the same Sun that's killing the grass.

Um, one of these things could work together. But, uh, yes. Oh, there you go. We'll have a large pit. We'll have a little patch of grass.

Yeah, that's underneath the shade. Dave, that's actually brilliant. I'm telling you. That's just why I'm here. Uh, you know what I say?

Uh, so. How do we feel? We feel.

And she always does that.

And it snaps me out of it. And I always go, we. You don't, you don't feel. You got a mouse in your pocket. Yeah, you're never out there.

She'll say that to me. Like, we should weed. I go, you don't weed anything. Yeah. It's not weed.

It's a passive aggressive state. But it's a great one for a wife. Cause it snaps me out of it.

“And let's me know that she's probably questioned.”

We should have a trash. Oh, that means I have a trash problem. That's right. We should go down. That's never the two of honey.

That's funny. That's funny. I'll like that. I'll like that. Like that.

I'll like that.

And it snaps me out of it.

Cause I realize, oh, the queen is not happy with somebody. Right. We are. There's an iron seed in futile. Here's why I am on these husband side.

I'm not anti-d. D. I get it. It's kind of a fun call. It is. But here's the deal.

The yard work for me is very therapeutic. I enjoy getting out doing a little bit of landscaping. I'm no architect as you know. But I do enjoy the time out there. My brain frees up.

I get some good thinking done. Because I'm on this menial task. I get it. He doesn't want to give up yet.

“So I think the approach is, how do you feel about this season?”

You think it's going to work?

How many more seasons are we going to try this? How about it? Give you the stacy tip. We can have that way about our tightness tickets. Exactly.

How many more seasons are we going to try this? How many more seasons? Yeah. Talk about futility. Boy.

That's so true. You and I felt that there's no what we mean. Our beloved tightness. We got another uniform. Another new logo.

I don't think we have any new results. We'll see. Oh. Day is fun. We're not giving you much of an answer.

But I think he has a valid point. It is. It is that. But I also think it's valid for you to bring up. Yeah.

Because you feel like this is futile. We need to squeeze somewhere else in the budget. If you're not willing to give up the futile seeds. And I actually love Dave. And I'm being serious.

I love Dave's suggestion. We save up. We stop the futility. We save up for the shaded structure. And then he tries to grow grass underneath that.

I think it's actually a stroke of genius. I don't think I don't think it'll work. But I think he needs sun. But what do I want? It's the Eric climate Ken.

It's snow. That's it. Just get a bag of rocks. [music playing] Dave Ramsey here.

Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck. Stress out. And broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke. And you deserve to have something to show for it.

“That's why we built the every dollar budget app.”

It gives you a personalized plan for your money. This shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus you get real coaches guiding you through your plan. Step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes.

But not you. You're ready to make change happen. Starting now. Go download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today. [music playing]

Ramsey show a question today is brought to you by Wi-Refi. Defalted private student loans don't define you. But dealing with them can Wi-Refi helps you to refinance into a loaf. Fix rate payment that you can afford. So you can take control of your money and get back to working the baby steps.

Go to Wi-Refi.com/Ramsey. That's the letter Wi-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kristen and Idaho. My husband and I are in our mid-50s and both work full time.

I contribute 15% in my employers 401K with my husband works for a small business and doesn't receive retirement benefits. Would you recommend that I increase my investments to cover the both of us?

He still hasn't income and he can still be investing at that 15% rate that we teach.

“So it's the principle not necessarily the product.”

And in this case if you invest the way we teach, then he can absolutely start investing in retirement. You don't have to double up. But what I would use some extra in years if I had to Kristen. Yes.

But the first thing I would do is both of you do Roth IRAs.

You can do $8,600 each every year right now. And so that's 17,200 bucks. That 15% of 100,000 would get you there. So I mean that's 17% of 100,000 in income. So if that doesn't get you with what you're doing in your 401K to 15%.

He makes over $100,000. You'll need to do something more than our over $110,000. You'll need to do something more than two Roths. But you can do $8,600 a piece at age 50. And that all, you know, both of them in 8600, your name 8600 in his name.

Go to RamseySolutions.com and click on Smart Vester Pro. Find a Smart Vester Pro in your area. They can set that up and have it auto drafted out of your checking account. It's very easy to do in the four types of mutual funds. We talk about growth and income, aggressive growth and international.

That's how minus set up. That's how kids are set up. And if that plus your 401K doesn't get you there because he makes $200,000.

Which, okay, he works for a small business and doesn't receive retirement benefits.

The likelihood of making $200,000. Probably. Okay. So more than likely, you know, that'll do it. But if it doesn't, then you could add some to yours.

But I would want you to do two Roth IRAs before you talk about adding to yours. And to Ken's point.

“And so I think you can get there with that any trouble.”

London is in Atlanta. Hi. London. How are you? Better than that is there.

How are you? Just the same sir. How can I help? Uh, so I'm on my last credit card. I was my debt snowball.

And it's a $700 that I got. And the entire time that I've been paying it, I've had a 0% APR on it until the start of this year. And now it's guy rocket up to 28%. I'm wondering if it would be smart to seek a debt

Consolation loan to get a lower APR. Or if I should just bear down. What do you make? Hey. I'm making $4700 right now.

But I'm getting married in two weeks. And what does she make? Not quite sure. She's starting a new job. So, but she'll be making 15 an hour.

Part time. Why part time? Uh, it's a career advancement for her. And this is kind of an entry level. And they aren't offering full time for a little while.

Okay. I'm sorry. Part time $15 doesn't sound like career advancement to me. Uh, well, it's for a pharmacy position. So there's a lot of room for growth.

Is she a pharmacist? No. She's a tech. So she's working. All right.

Yeah, she needs to get full time work. And if they don't, if they don't provide that within 30 days, she needs to get a different job. There's no, this is not career, career advancement on counting pills out.

It's not, it's, no. Oh, it's not, you know, she's not a farm. Pharmacy is going to make 135. She's not. So anyway, side from that, because that, but that does bring us to the point of,

while she's working part time, she needs another part time job too. Um, because you guys have a $7,800 debt. What other debts do you all have? Uh, no, that's all.

“Yeah, if she have any money, do you have any money?”

Not in retirement. Uh, I've got $1,000 for my emergency fund. But aside from that, you know, she doesn't have any money. You're here. No, no, no debt either.

Okay, all right, good. All right, cool. All right.

Well, the answer is, you know, no, I would not get a consolidation loan.

You're going to get yourself off into some deep water with some bad papers, some bad loan terms there. Uh, what I would do is shop for a different credit card that has a zero percent and just do a balanced transfer. And, but here's the thing, it's $7,800.

I wish you'd pay this off in like two months. We ought to work like, well, 24/7 and clear it up right now. That's kind of been the highlight, paid off my other credit cards, because I was taking up side work, but that's not going to slow down right now. We'll get a different side work.

Okay. Get more side work. There's always side work. Lots of side work. What do you do for a living?

Uh, I'm a machinist. Oh, great. And you can find some work for sure.

I market that size.

Oh, you can find work for sure.

I'm going to Atlanta. I'm over close to Blue Ridge. Okay. Well, you may have to, may have to haul a little bit to get to some work then, but anyway, yeah, you're, you're, anyway,

yes, I would pick up extra work side work. And the, it's not 78,000, so this should not be around long. And so the interest rate, if you only have it for three months, the interest rate almost doesn't matter. And if, if the debt is going to be around three to six months,

max, the interest rate is almost irrelevant.

“But if you want to burn some calories and go get a zero percent transfer credit card,”

or a five percent interest grant transfer credit card, I don't care.

Anything like that transfer it to another card.

And then cut this one up and then cut that one up as soon as you do the transfer. And then still pay it off just as fast. But you have a $7,800 problem. You don't have a $700 problem. And $700 is the interest we're talking about.

So that's, you know, $700 doesn't solve your problem. If you got another zero percent, it doesn't solve the problem. It's still sitting there looking at you. You need a grant. And you're getting married.

And you need to go get it. It's too fast as you can and clean it up as fast as you possibly can. And, you know, that, that's how I would go out this.

“Susan's in Tulsa, Oklahoma, high Susan, how are you?”

I'm fine, Dave, how are you?

Better than I deserve, how can we help? We have a second home. It's my husband and I were recently married. I didn't do anything for about a year with the home. I'd rent it for a year.

And then when we started to delve into it, we thought we'd put it real quick. But it's kind of become a nightmare. And it's to bring it up to code. It's costing us a lot. And so the question is, to keep, you know, plug it along, cash flowing in it.

Or we brought a contract man. We're looking at $8,200,000 to get everything done. There is a mortgage still on the home. So we're kind of looking at what off. How much is out on the home?

80,000. Well, what will it sell for as is? As is, I don't think it's going to bring much because it's been pretty much got it. That's the big problem. As is, what will it sell for?

“Have someone look at it and tell me, what do you think it's really going to sell for?”

All the emotion about you being pissed off about this house or whoever got it. I don't care about what will the house actually sell for? 80, 125. Sell it. I wouldn't put 80 in it.

Sell it and put a few dollars in your pocket. Move on. Okay. Okay. Well, why put 80 into that?

You put 80 into it. Now, it's got to bring over 160 for you to break even on that investment. And it's already a piece of crap house that you hate. Right? Not exactly, but close.

Yeah, I mean, you're no adjective you use towards the house was positive. Yeah, anyway, that's what I would do. If I woke up in your shares, this thing is it's a leftover from another life that was imported into this new marriage and it needs to be jettisoned from the new marriage. I want to clean house, no pun intended.

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

[Music] The Ramsey shows going on tour. This April, next month, we're headed to Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix and Anahom.

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Go to RamseySolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes. If you're listening on the podcast or on the YouTube, come out and see the show. Live in person. Josh isn't Chicago. Hey, Josh, how are you?

I'm doing well. Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my question is, my wife and I have been going back and forth on.

Whether or not it makes sense to keep our country club membership at this stage in our life and finances. Who says keep it? Who says get rid of it?

You know, I would say I'm probably leaning more.

Get rid of it. But at the same time, I'd say in the recent months, it's been a little bit back and forth of there are times where we'll talk about it and she says keep it.

“So you probably had I think a friend on it, right?”

So we've been there for six years. We joined his junior members and we had a pretty small up front, actually. But then the catches now is I'm getting older and kind of progressing up the different membership classes. If we left and came back, I'd then be hit with a big down.

Yeah. I'd be hit with about a $50,000 down stroke if we left and came back. 50,000. Okay. And what's your household income?

So base salaries end up right under three hundred and then with bonuses and everything. We pretty commonly clear a little over four, sometimes a little more than that. So is this a golf membership also? Yeah. Yeah.

And how often do you play? So I'll play two to three times a week. They're in the season. We're in Chicago. So I mean, we get, I mean, Memorial Day to the Labor Day.

What do your dues? So monthly dues before we walk in the door, 865. And during the winter, it's about that.

“We don't really eat out there much during the winter.”

And during the season, we play quite a bit if they're pre-involved socially. So a couple, maybe two to two grand to 2,500 a month per play. We're paying in season. Yeah. But you're also that that's in lieu of restaurants and some of that.

Correct. Yeah. So or green fees for that matter. Do you have any debt? We do.

We do have some card debt. Should be cleared by the end of this year. But we've got about 77,000 in card debt. And it's that in our house that we have. Okay.

Well, based on your usage, I don't know why you're thinking about getting rid of it. You have the income to support that. Some of that's the equivalent of a restaurant bill. So basically, 1,000 bucks a month, 1,000 dollars a year.

And you play unlimited golf, I assume. Correct. And usually you've got like a food minimum, right? Yeah. I'd say the reason I'm actually, I don't know,

in my category, I don't have a food minimum. Wow. Okay. So that I wasn't saying 2,000 if you actually did eat then. Correct.

Or take guests on the golf course, yeah. Exactly. So you can afford all that if you weren't using it. And you're just burning a thousand dollars a month.

And you never golfed and you didn't go there and eat.

Then yeah, that starts to be the time. That season has, that sun has sat, right? And so we sunset the idea. And we move on because it's not, it's this season of our life. We're not there.

An example would be one of the guys working here. I was a member of a club that we have a corporate sponsorship into. And he said, I can't go play golf. I have little kids. And he goes, I'm not paying a thousand dollars a month to just say,

I belong over there. And foods okay, it's basically a golf club. And so he's like, no, I'm out. And so because he's not that, and he, you know, some day he may want to join something again.

But it's probably a decade from now. Because he's got little kids around the golf five hours, you know. So that was kind of where the question came from a little bit. I mean, my wife and I were early 30s and we've got two kids, but I mean, that a one year old and like a four month old.

And so I do see my golf usage, doing a little bit. But at the same time, I mean, I, it's something I do want for my kids when they are old enough to enjoy it. And let's say five, six years, something like that. My thought was if I left and rejoined, I'd be hit with a huge.

Downstroke at that point. So it doesn't make sense to kind of keep it during these next five to six years where I won't be using it quite as much. Yeah, but if you're going to use it, it's just a utilization thing. You know, don't pay for a subscription that you don't read.

Don't pay for a membership you don't use. Right. But if you're going over there and playing golf, you know, a Chicago club's tough.

And I mean, I played Madonna up there the other day and it's incredible.

As an example, but I'm sure with based on the numbers you give me, that's not what we're talking about. But the, anyway, there's some iconic things up there.

“I think when you cease to use it enough because of whatever reason,”

kids or whatever, then you would cancel it. But in today, you're doing that in anticipation of that. Because today's actual usage justifies keeping it. Makes sense. And you know, because you can't go back in baby stuff too,

I would keep it because of your income. Now, if you tell me your income is 100 grand. I would have, we wouldn't have this conversation. I'm just, I don't care about your junior membership. You just can't afford it.

But you're, you know, you're making 300 plus and it's $12,000. And you can't get back in. So you stay in to stay in. And but I wouldn't keep it 10 years with none usage either. Yeah, I think it's an ROS return on spin there.

And I mean, I'll tell you what, I mean, I joined the same golf club.

I got bit, I've always enjoyed golf, but I really wanted to play a lot.

And for two years, I did. And then I found another hobby and that this season of my life, I don't have time for two hobbies.

“Because I should go to a local ball does not need a golf course.”

It's essentially what happened. My own life said. So when was the last time you play golf? And so when was probably been three weeks? Because every nice day, I was trying to get a pickleball game.

And so it came down to I realized just doesn't make it all sense. It's all it was. Yeah. Vincent, Cinderella, North Carolina. Hey, Vincent, how are you?

I'm doing good. How can we help?

Well, I got a, I got a, I'll show the Liberty decision.

GT 500. And it's worth about a hundred five. About about six to five thousand though. But the question I have is, I was the honest a little bit of money about $18,000.

That's a credit card bills in the parking. And you just have a rare cause both.

“Yeah, I'm trying to wait till he leaves get up to a high to 50,000.”

Or I should just sell it now and clear off all my debt and everything else. If you did not own it, you had $40,000 in your checking account. And you said, I could either clean up my debts or I could go borrow another 65. And buy a car that I hope goes up in value. You would never do that.

You need to sell this car. It is a fabulous, like, cool car. I love the car. But dude, you're broke. You're going to be driving $100,000 car.

You're broke. Okay. I don't think he anticipated that response. Yeah. I mean, it's a $100,000 value of 65.

Take the 40 grand, clean up my ass, and move on. When you become wealthy someday and you have extra money, you can buy cars. It's okay. I like wild cars, crazy cars. I like it.

It's fun. And that's a neat vehicle. Fair. $500. $GT500.

Cool. That's going to be a sad day. Yeah. Make no mistake about events. Well, what we're suggesting here is not painless.

Now, it's a beast of a car. Just remove your little finger. I would get one more burn out of it before I sold it. I would burn those tires one more time. And so it's a house.

But yeah, it's a classic muscle car. It is going up in value. I don't disagree with you there. I don't think you're in a position to borrow money to invest in collectables going up in value. And that's essentially what you have done.

And so I would tell you to get out of it. Even though my 15-year-old Redneck boy says that's the coolest car ever. But yeah, still got to sell it. (music) It's that time again, folks.

Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today.

That way they can take the stress off your shoulders. And once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible.

Go to RamseySolutions.com/taxpro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's RamseySolutions.com/taxpro. (music) Scripture that a 1st Corinthians 13-6 and 7 love does not delight any evil, but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, always trusts, always hopes.

Always, first of years. Thomas Ols said facts can be ignored, but their consequences cannot be escaped. (music) Logan is with us in Illinois. Hi, Logan, how are you?

Hi, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve, what's up? Well, I'm 29 years old. I'm a single father. I'm basically an extenuating service for circumstances over the last couple of years as led me to this mountain of debt.

And I can't even look at the bills anymore. And I don't know where to start. Okay, how big is the mountain? (music) Quick list, $26,000 in total would kind of get me set straight.

Be debt-free, $26,000 in debt.

“Okay, and give me a little break down on that, what kind of debt is it?”

A lot of it's credit cards. How much? A lot. Credit cards.

I've got one that's 27, 75, 28 percent.

I've got another one that's only 639. I've got another that's 2,980. And then I think one that's another 600. That's only 7,000 dollars. Yeah.

Okay, so they're emotionally heavy, but they're not that much. So what's the other $19,000? I have a 2016 Chevy Malibu. $10,139 left. That's 13.63 percent.

That thing is just, I mean, it's falling apart. And the rest of you, what's the other $10,000 in debt? The other debt is mostly medical. I'm looking a lot of medical.

“There's one from my last apartment that I had to move out.”

And I just couldn't afford it. Are you paying them monthly right now? No, I am not. I went to a collector and I owe $2,000 to a medical bill. Do they pay any of those monthly right now?

I just, yeah, I'm trying. Okay. And the-- And the-- what's your income? $40,000 salary?

I just got a new job. So I'm starting in two days. What were you-- what did you use to make? I was making a little bit more than I was making about 45 with, but I was working a crap ton over time.

And I was not seeing my child. So this is-- So you were making-- I'm going to the more money, but we're not current. And so you took a job making less money.

I did. But I'm driving an hour, two hours less a day. I'm not driving an hour, two, and from work every day. Okay. So that's going to say probably about $2,000 to $3,000.

What do you do? Yes. I am going to be a paralegal. And how old is your child? He's nine years old.

He'll be ten in May. Okay. And so he and your ex live around you there. Yes. Yes.

She lives about 20 minutes away. Going through poor proceedings and everything right now to get custody. And that's-- How long has he been divorced? We were never married.

We've been split up since he was about one years old. And I've been fighting this up for a battle for the better part of seven years. And you've been seeing him during that time? Yes, all the time. More so--

Why is there a battle if you're seeing him? If I just-- that seems the way it goes, we-- I've fought for joint custody. She had the majority custody in the split up. And then I had to fight to get joint custody.

Finally, had joint custody for the last couple years.

And then there was issues that gave me protective custody over the-- for the last six months. And now I'm doing trying to get full custody or majority custody. But the judge wants us to do a mediation. And that costs $600 per party. And I had to pay the attorney and not the three.

“Were you a paralegal in this previous job doing all the overtime?”

No, I was not. What were you doing? I was working to wear a house on a forklift. Yeah, I-- I'm going to tell you.

But you need to be working crazy hours where you are now. You really do. You can get out of this pretty quickly.

Yeah, so here's the thing.

You've spent 90% of your brain power fighting custody for the last hour of many years. You've spent almost zero percent managing money. Agreed? I mean, you put all of your energy into the nine-year-old, which is good. You're a dad and you're trying to do things for your kid.

And I don't blame you for that. But you get what you lean on. And so you're going to have to lean on this money piece from an income production standpoint, a side hustle, temporarily. Long enough to clean some of this up and just start to plow through it.

So get rid of the credit cards and cut them up and get this car paid off.

“And whatever else we've got to do to get this thing moving, right?”

Yeah, I mean, you're not paying on the old debts anyway. Just let them sit for now.

I don't care about your credit.

And then I want you to pile up some cash. Let's get this car paid off as fast as you possibly can. Get these credit cards paid off as fast as you can. The interest rates are bothering you. I know that because you brought them up in detail.

They're, yeah. It would seem like that. The interest rates are not, the interest rates are next. I said they're bothering you, but I didn't say they're your problem. The interest rates aren't your problem, they're only your problem because they've been around so long.

But if you pay off these cards, your $7,000 coins up your credit card in that, all of it. And so $17,000 makes your life whole. And so if I'm you, I'm going to go find $1500 a month, which is $18,000 a year. And I'm going to cut into my monthly budget to the tune of at least $1,000 a month. It's $2,500 a month on $17. That's a six or an eight month program.

And you're debt free except the medical bills in the old landlord debt. And you can breathe again. But right now you've focused all of your energy and time. You spent zero time analyzing and attacking the money thing because you spent all of your calorie burn on this custody fight, which is totally acceptable.

I'm not shaming you for that. I'm just pointing out that when you bother to care about the money, one tenth as much as you care about this custody thing, it's going to straighten up. But you have to lean in on it hard.

Like you've been leaning on this other thing hard. And what do I go first? Well, I know some people say interest rates, some people don't give up about interest rates. I want you to get your budget on beans and rice, rice and beans. I want you to pick up 1,500 a month inside of us.

And I want you to put 2,500 a month towards credit cards. If you do that in three months, the credit cards are gone. And in four more months, the card debt is gone. That's seven months. 2,500 times 7 to 17 that countered up.

Interest rates don't matter when you're doing it that fast. And so list your debts smallest to large. Just pay minimum payments on everything with the little one. And then get pissed off about this. It's been riding on your back too long.

“You need to get this thing off your back.”

And by the way, your head'll be clear to be a better dad. And to fight these other battles. If you're not broke. And then go clean up the little medical bills. They're like a bunch of freaking mosquitoes around your head.

And then call the landlord and offer him 25 cents on the dollar. Lump some once you've got a little money saved up. And they'll clear that. You could be debt free in like a year. Completely debt free in a year.

But you're going to have, you know, you're going to have nothing done during that year except nine year old. Work all the time. Nine year old. Work some more and pay debt.

And that's the only thing you get to do for the next year. Complete focus. And you knock this out very quickly. I'm going to send you a copy of the book. The total money makeover to help you do it.

And we're going to get you signed up for every dollar. Christian will pick up and get all of that happening for you. You can do this. You've just been completely focused on something else. Which, by the way, was the right thing to do.

“You should be focused on your kid before you're focused on money.”

But the great news is, is that calling you up the money also helps the kid. Because it puts you in a better position to fight when you're not broke. And staring at interest rates all the time. That puts us out of the Ramsay show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace.

And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.