Stop Looking for Shortcuts and Make Progress with Your Money

Stress from money problems doesn't just stay in your bank account, it shows up everywhere

“in your life, talking to someone can help you sort it out.”

Go to betterhelp.com/ramsy to get 10% off. Brought to you by the every dollar app, start budgeting for free today. What's up, America. Normal is broken common sense, is weird so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fairwins Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsay Show,

John Loney Joined by the one and only gangster, George Campbell. It's got to your Pennsylvania and talk to Ronda, help me Ronda what's up. If I help you can help me, I can do it in George and John. We're doing great. We're doing great.

What's up? I am really struggling and I was wondering if it would benefit me to get a loan to pay off all my debt except for the house in order to give me a little breathing room. You sound terrified. Are you okay?

Just have a lot going on in my life. Yeah, you sound like you take a deep breath for me. I'm trying to help my brother take care of my mom, trying to work full-time job, I get up at 3 o'clock in the morning so that I can be at Mom's by four, so my brother can leave for work and then I get my mom out and take her to make care of it and then I go

to work and I don't get off to five six o'clock in the evening and I travel over 65 miles a day to do all this. So let me interrupt you here, okay? whatever path you're on doing this is noble and pretty amazing and it's not sustainable.

“Right, how long has it been going on until just over a year?”

Okay.

I always want you to push pause on I have to, I want you to really dig into that.

Let's get into your money challenges right now which are facing financially and if we have time we can loop back before the radio break we can loop back and talk through this idea of a half-two. If you don't, my George and I have a great friend in Wilkadera and he told me he's a famous restaurant here and he said if his staff doesn't spend time to go fill up their picture

before their shift starts, they have nothing to serve their customers with and if you're not taking care of yourself and you end up in the hospital, you end up collapsing, you end up in a wreck at 330 in the morning because you're exhausted, then you're unable to help yourself and it will help your brother, you're unable to help your mom, okay? So sometimes the greatest gift we can give other people is to say no.

Okay, let's circle back to your money challenges. So how much debt do you have? 19,000. What kind of debt is that? Break it down for me.

What are the types and what are the balances? It's all credit card debt. So 19,000 is across a couple of card cards? Yes, and then I have a house, it's 26,362. Well, the mortgage will leave alone for now.

Let's focus on the consumer debt by itself. How much are you bringing home every month?

Do I need to do I want to count over time because I don't, I don't always have every time,

I've been blessed that I've been able to get a little bit in. You don't have to count it. My brain. We'll go without that for now.

“How much of that is the mortgage, what does that cost you?”

So we're approaching half your income, just immediately out the door from that paycheck to the mortgage, and then you've got the credit card bills, what are the minimum payments across all of those? I think that is 632. So then you've got a thousand bucks left to do everything else.

Utility bills, food, groceries, insurance, you name it. Correct. So that's part of it. Part of the reason you can't breathe right now is a mathematical equation. There's not enough income coming in to cover the bills and knock out the debt, which

is probably why you turn to the credit cards, right?

of credit. Have at it. We'll help you. Yeah.

It's a month, a month, about six different cards.

Okay. Are you still using those cards every month, or can you make your bills work with your income right now? It was at the 7 different cards, and now I haven't been using my cards, I've been good. I've been trying to make it on just what I have.

That's amazing progress. That's a huge start, because part of the issue of getting out of debt is most people are still going into it while trying to get out.

“So back to your original question, should I take a loan out to take off this other loan?”

This is credit card debts, I wouldn't do that, because it makes you feel like you've solved the problem when you've just moved it around and potentially made it worse. Because now you've got a debt consolidation loan of just one payment, and now you go to attack this $19,000 mountain instead of debt snowballing it with the smallest balance. So what's your next smallest balance credit card debt?

The smallest card balance is a five and a five and a five and a seven, but I'm just thinking that they give me a little piece that only had to write one bill out or pay one bill. Yeah, it's overwhelming to keep up with seven different bills. But debt consolidation, it could make the problem worse in a lot of other ways. So I'd rather you have these on your own.

You have to get a personal loan, but I wouldn't have to do that consolidation. And I could get a better rate, but my next loan, I just got paid off my next list is $1300. $1300, okay great.

“And that's what I think we need right now is a little bit of progress, because you've probably”

felt hopeless for a while now, probably for the last year as you've been just clawing through all of this.

Yeah, before all this happened, I was making really good progress, and I had the second job,

and then all this happened. Is there a possibility that you can go to making this drive three days a week, and your brother can pick up the other two? I can't because I'm there, so he can leave for work. That's the only reason I have to be there that's four o'clock in the morning.

He's a truck driver in, in order to get his loads and runs in for the day. He has to leave for work. What's the long term plan to take care of her? Well, we're on a program where we're supposed to be able to get assistance to come into the home, but we've only because of the four o'clock in the morning, couldn't nobody wants

to take care of her?

“Is it possible that you can move her into your home for a while for a season?”

I still have to run to the office for it to take her to take care of her. I don't know that she would be, she has dementia, and I don't know if that would be good for her, you know, in her element. I want you to pursue not just one support program, but I want you to pursue every possible support program, SSI benefits, Social Security benefits.

I want you to knock on every door because what you're doing is so good and so noble and it's unsustainable. These crazy and sane, maddening rising gas prices are crushing you that right, the cost of groceries is crushing you on top of just the schedule you're keeping. You've got to take care of yourself so you can take care of those you love.

Hey guys, George Camel here.

If you run a business, your phone is basically your cash register, and every missed call

is money you didn't know you lost. And miss calls, slower plies, customers who moved on before you got back to them, that's not a U-problem, that's a system problem. That's where Quow comes in, a sponsor of today's show. Quow spelled QU-O is the smarter way to run your business communications.

Quow helps you and your team share one business number so you can reply faster and stay on top of every customer conversation. Nothing gets missed and every customer gets a response. Because look, you didn't start a business to spend your days playing phone tag and digging through text messages, you're the owner, the operator, and the closer.

Quow works from your phone or computer, it logs calls, summarizes conversations, and gives you next steps.

It's like having an assistant who never asks for a race.

So try Quow free plus get 20% off your first six months at Quow.com/Ramsy. That's QU-O.com/Ramsy, always say hello with Quow. Hey, George, the last caller we just took, I want to dig in on two things real quick. Because I think one of her core questions she asked was, "I have to make seven different credit card payments every month."

My life would be easier if I just went and got, it sounded like her credit was good enough to do this. I just want to run down to a credit union and get one loan to cover all this stuff and I just want to make one payment a month. And I could even make a case mathematically for that to work.

She might get a lower interest rate at a credit union than all these different credit cards.

It's been my experience that what looks good on paper doesn't always play out in the real

world. Game by that is, psychologically you can get exhausted. I got so many nickel and dime things to do and it's every month it's a beating getting on my checkbook or getting online and trying to figure out what's the payment here and what's this one.

“I just want to make one payment a month and I get that, especially if you have to make a mathematical”

case for it. But it's been my experience to tell me if I'm wrong, psychologically speaking, what we miss is a whole bunch of little wins that give you a tailwind over time. And so we're asking people to do often is not. People compete me up all day for the math.

What I'm trying to do is give you a psychological win so you can get through this thing quicker because what I've seen in my own life in person after person is they consolidate everything, get one giant mountain. They take 10 steps up that mountain and they just say, I forget it, it's too high now, right? If it feels insurmountable or they pay for five months and that mountain is still pretty

thing big and they just are like, I'm out. And so there's something about the psychology of a whole bunch of little wins, right? Yeah, I mean, the debt snowball has been studied. I mean, even Harvard Business Review came out and said, Dave Ramsey's right, the debt snowball

“method is the best way to pay off debt because we know it's 80% behavior.”

It's 20% head knowledge. We all know maybe we shouldn't go into debt at 23% APR with capital one and yet millions of Americans do it. And then we get desperate and so we turn to what, more debt. We don't look in the mirror and say, oh, that's the solution, that person, that person's

ability to create an income to get on a budget to cut the expenses, to sacrifice that's the solution, not moving the pile over and then going, I feel better now. And then next month the payment still comes due and you still can't afford the payment. And that was a problem that Ronda was experiencing. He barely could afford her bills and so it feels like that's one piece that could help.

And it might help a tiny bit, but it's not going to solve the underlying issue. And I also want to call out, she's a perfect example of how the cost of living this increase in gas prices, this increase in inflation that just keeps sticking around, the increase in cost of groceries.

“For somebody like her, it's easy for me to get kind of call us and to say, well, you should”

plan to better whatever, here's a woman trying to take care of her mom, her and her brother are switching night shift to day shift. He's working his butt off to these are noble people. And she's trying to keep her mom okay until somebody will show up as a part of some government program to help out with the mom has got dementia.

And then everything goes up 20 bucks a week, which turns into 80 bucks a month, which turns into, we don't have that kind of money, right? And so man, this inflation's real. And the pain people are feeling at home with their groceries with their, like, I went

home shopping with a family member recently to make their first home purchase.

What was going for 355, 345, 345,000? Just a few years ago, I wouldn't have paid 200 for, I would have walked out. And so things have shifted very, very fast and there's a very real weight to this. And so if you're listening to this and you're feeling like you're going crazy, you're not.

You're not. These are real expenses. These are real challenges. And at the same time, we need to get involved, right? And as Dave says, you don't get a pass on math, like you're income is still your income.

And the bills went up. We have a problem here. And sometimes it's more income is the solution. Sometimes it's cutting some expenses. Sometimes it's drastic sacrifices, moving your entire family, selling the home, whatever

If you want to get to where you're going, in today's America, you might need to be more

drastic than you would have five years.

“And you don't want to, but we got a math problem.”

And it's a painful ugly, just a gnarly math problem affecting everybody. Scott to Anchorage, Alaska, and talk to Christina. Hey, Christina, what's going on? Hello. How are you, guys?

Awesome. Running a scam called a podcast. It's the best. I'm, like, a little bit of a fan girl. I listen all the time, and husband and I are on baby step number four.

Awesome. On the fan girl of George too, so I feel it. I feel it. So what's your question? Yep.

Let me just, so it's kind of a weird one. We're doing well financially. We don't have any debt. We truly live by the baby steps.

We just never carry debt.

Only thing we have debt for is our house. So that's great, we're working towards retirement. My job, I have a job that's an awesome job. I work from home most of the time, I sometimes will go in a few days a week if they need me.

I've got an opportunity to perhaps take a promotion, which would be in the office. They're, we're still working on that. But anyway, I had mentioned when I was in the office the other day, like, hey, how come we never get annual raises? We almost have to threaten to go somewhere else before they'll give us a raise.

And then next thing I know, my boss was calling and saying, hey, I heard you're being recruited. I'd like to give you a 30,000, how many? How many? She said I'd like to give you a $30,000 retention bonus for three years.

“Is that pretty year or is that 10k a year for three years?”

10k? Yeah. 10k a year for three years. So, probably some pretty high taxes. And I guess my thought process is, well, we don't plan on being an Alaska in three years.

We plan on retiring. My husband's going to retire in about two and a half years. And I don't know if there's a contract that's going to go with this. It was just a phone call that came to me two days ago. So I guess my question is, do I, should I counter and go, hey, why don't you just give

me a raise? Like, why are we doing, I mean, I'm not going in. I wasn't going anywhere. I just kind of mentioned that in passing that, because they don't, they don't do annual reviews, you know?

Well, I've got, man, I've got so many questions. Question number one is, if this is such a wonderful job and a wonderful company, have you picked your head up a little bit just to look around and see what your market value is? I don't know hardly any boss that will just pick up a phone and call an employee and say,

hey, you want 30,000 bucks? I know. That's almost unheard of. That tells me your words substantially more than you're being paid. Okay.

Thank you. I appreciate that. I believe that I am. Actually, I know that I am. I, you know, I've been in the business for a long time.

I've got knowledge. I've got, you know, and I know that they would like to keep me for all of those reasons. Do you, um, would, would, is there a number that you would leave for, or you're this close to retiring? You're just going to write it out no matter what.

And, you know, I hadn't really thought, I, that's a great question. I should have thought of, um, I don't know if there's a number that would cause me to, there actually was. I did do an interview with the competition about a year and a half ago. I gave them a number.

They were like, oh, yeah, that's probably more than we'd like to pay. And we kind of left it there, um, but they continuously, like, reach out and go, hey, want to go do coffee, and so, um, so, yeah, I do have a number, but it's kind of a high number. They didn't want to do it.

It is, um, just, I guess, heard that somebody was courting me, if you well, and made a call and offered me 30 K. So what are you making now? About 80. Okay.

I've worked from home, and I, I mean, I took a huge pay cut, and you, you guys plan on moving. So like, you know, this isn't going to work if you do this for three years. So it's not worth the gold and handcuffs.

“So I think you now have some negotiating power to say, listen, I will do a raise.”

I don't, I'm not comfortable with the three year agreement, but if you're willing to do a $10,000 raise, or we'll do it once, we'll do it annualized, so let's split it up over three years. Yeah. I think that's also way better deal to, I mean, I just, I don't want you to pay this back

if you leave early. And so I'd be reading the fine print making sure that this is leaning in your favor instead of theirs, because they need you more than you need them. That's the key. I almost thinks that they're not going to give me a contract.

I almost think they're just going to throw 30,000 dollars. Yeah, but don't become somebody you don't want to be.

Like always retain your integrity.

And so if you, even if it's a handshake, if you say you're going to do a thing, then do that thing. And so yeah, I love the idea of you saying, I appreciate the offer. Let's, let's break this up over three years, and we'll do it, installments, and we'll

Hey George Kamel here, listen, if you've had your phone two or three years, your phone can

now be unlocked.

“That means you can switch to boost mobile to get unlocked, bring your own device, and keep”

more of your money where it belongs. Look, the fat cats of big wireless, they are counting on you, just staying put and overpaying every single month. They want you to think switching is complicated, risky, or just not worth it. Meanwhile, your bill keeps climbing like it's training for a triathlon, but boost mobile

makes switching simple and way less spending. You bring your phone, keep your number, and get unlimited wireless for just $25 a month. He had 25 bucks a month, not for six months, not for a promotional period, forever, and there's no contract, no hidden fees, and no, we change your plan because we felt like it, email.

So if you're tired of overpaying for something you already own, this is your moment to save money. Go to boostmobile.com/ramsy and get unlocked today, that's boostmobile.com/ramsy. 25 dollars forever requires customers to remain active on boostmobile and limited plan.

“Man buying, or selling your home, is high stakes, because one bed deal could cost you tens”

of thousands of dollars or more. You don't want to overpay for your next house, or sell your current home for less than it's worth. Like I said, in a previous break, I just went home shopping with a family member of mine in another state and it's dismal and a business.

It's really, really tough. Like what you can get for your dollar is not great. Yeah. And dude, I just bought a house, not that long ago, several years ago, and it's changed so fast, and I know that intellectually, I read the data, it's something else to walk inside

these homes and to just look at, here's much money we have, and here's what we're going

to give up, here's what we can't get. This isn't going to work. Here's a compromises. Yeah, it's tough. And listen, this is why Ramsey trusted connects you with vetted real estate agents who

have the experience to guide you step by step to make smart decisions. One thing that's awesome is my family member had an amazing real estate agent and was not afraid to say we're walking on the door, not doing this. Who actually cares about your budget and said, I'm going, well, you know what, outside of your budget, but they're the real estate agent cared more about my family member

than the sale, and it was evident. It was awesome. Walking into a house and be like, nope, we're leaving. I'm not leaving. You look at this house because they didn't tell the truth on the ad or whatever, it was

amazing. Listen, you want a good real estate agent in your corner, connecting is easy. I want you to compare agent profiles using Ramsey trusted and interview your top choices and pick the right agent for you. Find a local Ramsey trusted agent who has your best interest at heart for free.

It ramsysolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

“There's roll out to Gulf, poor, Mississippi, and talk to A.M.Y., what's up, A.M.Y.?”

Hey. How are you? We're doing great. How are you? Doing good.

Thanks for taking my questions. You bet. How can we help? Well, my husband and I are having a disagreement about what costs were covering for our youngest daughter, and she's in college, sorry.

Three kids, our oldest, is completely on her own and employed in our middle and youngest are both in college. Our youngest chose to go the farthest away to state university, but it's one of the more expensive ones in the area. And her tuition is mostly covered with scholarships and we don't really have to worry

about that much, but since her second year of school, we've been covering her

card living expenses, so her apartment and utilities, that sort of thing. So what's the fine between your husband and about? So, from the beginning with all of our kids, we told them that they need to start planning from a young age. How they're going to pay for school, whether they are in the military or get scholarships

or play a sport, whatever it is, they will be responsible for their school, and we would help them, but we wouldn't, they're all fairly close and aged, so in theory, all of them could have been in college at the same time.

So the first two were good to go, and the youngest one, it's things like she just keeps having more expenses, more expenses, and she calls daddy, and says daddy, I can't pay for

it, and he always pays for it, and you know what, her expenses, you know what, her expenses

keep going up, start to cut you off, you know why? Why? Because they can, her line of credit keeps increasing, because the paying says, yeah, I got more money, and you all used very vague language with underdeveloped frontal lobes. That was my great way of saying your kids, living expenses is the most vague term of all

time. Because we won't pay for all of it, but we'll help, and probably you're in a different financial situation with the youngest one, then you were with the oldest one, Fizefeir. The two youngest, it's pretty much the same, because there's only a year apart. You and your husband got to get on the same page, and then you all have to be radically

crystal clear with your daughter. That's it. I have been, I think his challenge, if we both needed a bus, when we were there, I had much, and we paid, you know, worked like crazy, and made our way through college, and he eventually joined the military, because he wasn't able to pay for his expenses.

“So now he doesn't want to see them struggle, and that's why he keeps giving in.”

So every time we talked about it, I end up being like the worst fall in the world, and just not being fair. I'm going to give you a picture, okay? I think struggle connected to love is one of the greatest gifts we can give our kids. Kids can struggle through a ton of stuff.

They just, it doesn't do them good long term to struggle alone, okay? So here's the picture I want you to sit down in your husband. The world is a weight room, and you and your husband had to walk into this weight room of life alone and figure out how to lift those weights, and the world kept adding plates on there and making it heavier and y'all to figure out how to get stronger.

What your daughter is experiencing is she walks in there and says, hey, this is really heavy, and your husband's running in there and pushing her off the bench and he's lifting it. That's nice, it is protecting her from harm, it is making sure she's going to walk out into the world with no strength.

So it's a long term disservice to continue to bottomless pit, bail her out, and it's a disservice for y'all to do not be aligned and not be clear, right? So that's step one.

“So you need to be aligned because right now she's gone well, dad's going to do it.”

Which then makes you the bad guy, right? That's not fun for either of you, and it's going to cause resentment between you and your husband.

So here's what I would do.

It's also cruel to say, but cut you off today, this can't go on in the plane for her. And the plane says, hey, starting this fall, we're going to change things up. I'm sorry we weren't clear or starting a Christmas problem. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to cover your rent, utilities, and meal plan directly.

We will not be sending you money. We will pay for those directly. Anything beyond that, you're going to work part time if you want to afford it. That's not cruel. And here's what has to happen.

She 100% will blow through that budget. Why? Because she always has never always build her out.

“You have to look across the table and say, we will not bail you out.”

And then when she calls and says, I need money for, you're going to have to say, sorry, honey, you have to go get a job, you're going to have to work more hours. You're going to have to cut back. You're going to have to hold the line otherwise your boundaries are waste of breath. Give it whatever she wants.

But you, Georgian, I can't decide what your, you and your husband's values are. Pay for everything if you want, just be honest about it or just pay for rent or just pay for groceries or just pay for car insurance or just pay for the cell phone bill. Every family's different, every parents have different values. But man, you and your husband got a line here on that deal.

Right. And that's, that's really our main problem. And he doesn't want to pay for everything when we discuss it, he doesn't want to pay for everything. He also doesn't want to tell her that he's not going to because he doesn't want, just

doesn't want her to struggle with all of that. I get that. I get that. That's his own, his own guilt and shame. Yeah, I get the debt of a daughter too.

I don't, when she comes in in this morning, she's my wife's at a town. She said, hey, Doug, we have ice cream for breakfast. And I said, yes, why? Because I'm a weak coward. I whipped out this morning.

And my daughter and I had an ice cream cone for breakfast, mainly because I wanted one. And she was a good avenue for that.

But here's the thing, I, I, I don't want her to struggle.

I'm robbing her of her dignity. I'm robbing her of her ability to get strong. And I'm robbing her of adversity, which she's gonna need in a world that is spun out of control. She's not in crisis. She's not about to be in the street.

We're not being cruel here. It's just, this is a part of the journey. Everyone in college should have to struggle. She doesn't skin in the game. She's an awkward, frustrating time.

And I worked part time while I was in college. I survived it and it gave me a work ethic that I have carried to this day. Right.

So this is first, this is a marriage problem more than anything.

Way more. I don't blame your daughter for any of this. No. But it's gonna be a, it might be a rude awakening at first. And later on, she's got, you know what, I'm really glad Mom and Dad did that.

You guys are literally where I am. Do you think your husband come up with a plan for when your daughter calls and says, "But Dad, you'll already agree. We're gonna go out and get ice cream." I think your phone's together from now on.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank because if you're still earning next to nothing

“on your savings, you need to check out Fairwind's Credit Union.”

And I know what you're thinking it might sound like a hassle. Moving your direct deposit, updating bills, getting a new debit card, feels like a lot.

But here's what most people don't realize, staying where you are could be costing you hundreds

of dollars every year. Y'all, the average savings account pays less than half a percent. So let's say, for example, you got $20,000 saved. You might earn around $70 a year. But with a Fairwind's high yield savings account earning 3% APY or more, that same money

could earn you over $600. And that's real money that you can use towards the baby steps. So don't let temporary comfort keep you stuck. Check out the smart bundle from Fairwind's Credit Union. You get a high yield savings account, a no fee checking account, and the Ramsey B-Wear

Devacard. Go to Fairwind's.org/Ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's Fairwind's.org/Ramsey, insured by the NCUA. Alright, let's roll out to Greensboro, North Carolina, and talk to Dear Marie. What's up Marie?

Hi there. How are you doing? I'm good. I hope you guys are. We're doing great.

Do you stay in a trouble? Good. I'm trying to. Good. So what's up?

Hi, I'm calling because we have lived in our house for about 34 years. We own the house. It's the house and one acre, what? We own the 1.2 acres on the other side of us. We have for 30 years and just now the lots on the other side of us went up for sale.

So we have been looking at that lot or hoping to buy it for years. It was in a will. It was the woman who owned it died and she and so the air is on it and they've just decided to put it up herself. So we're wondering, I'm wondering, is this something that I could get a, that I could,

“I'm wondering how to finance it and if I should even buy it?”

I guess that's my question. Where are you guys at financially? You have any debt? Do you have emergency savings? I have no debt.

I have about $12,000 in savings. I've got a $90,000 401k. I've got about $155,000 in a brokerage account. Okay. And what's your real estate worth?

Probably $400,000. And it's all paid for? No mortgage. Yes. Did your husband have his own retirement plan?

No. No. No. I'm a widow. My husband died about four years ago.

Okay. Yeah. How much is this land? This, they are asking 50. Well, they're actually asking 60,000.

Oh. But we know we could get it for about 50.

“And you've got that money in your brokerage account?”

I do. I see your, the word finance is on the board.

It always gives me a little, you know.

Spidey says, tingling. Yeah. It gives me pause. They haven't had a mortgage for so long that it just, I'm really, oh, I don't want

Well, you don't have to.

Why don't you just pay cash?

Yeah. Well, that's what I'm wondering.

“Is that a smart thing to use that money for?”

I would do that today. If it, if I was in your exact situation, I would do that. It's not a huge portion of your world. How old are you? I'm 62.

Okay. Kind of part of the problem. How do you plan on retiring? What's the game plan? Um, well, I'm going to work for probably several more years just because I want to.

Okay. Um, and then what do you make? What do you make? I make about 56,000. So I take home about 3600 a month.

Okay. And what are your expenses every month?

Anywhere between 17 and at the very most 2000.

Great. So you got plenty of margin in the budget and have you done the research on what the property is going to cost you a long term? Well, yes, and property tax wise, my full property tax right now are about $1,950. A year.

A year.

“People are mad at you across the marion.”

Taxing just got their swords. I know. And to me. That's one month for a taxing. Okay.

Well, let me tell you, it just went up $800. So we had a reassessment. And so, you know, $1900 is like, what? Yeah. What are you going to do with a lot?

Nothing. Nothing. Not have neighbors. Just not have, yes. What's the end goal here?

The end goal. Well, and the really, really important part of a reason for getting the property is because this area is being developed. It's a road that everybody would love to have. And have a commercial eventually someday.

But there's also 57 acres behind me that somebody could buy that property and turn it into a road. So they could get access to that property. So there's also, I know, that the last thing the people that are selling it talked about doing was it was putting a couple trailers on it.

“Either way, it affects me dramatically, I think.”

Yeah. I think at this price point, the fact that you can pay cash. It's not a huge part of your world. Obviously, we got to catch up on the retirement side. But if you plan on working for the foreseeable future and chunking that margin away into

retirement accounts, then I'll give you the green light on this one. Wow.

Anytime I find myself in a situation like this, I always want to throw a couple more variables just

to make sure I'm doing the right thing. So can I throw one or two at you? Absolutely. Sell everything and go buy a condo closer to town. Wow.

That's what my son would say. For 300,000, a nice one. And no, I don't have any more yard work ever again on your place. You'll probably put two plus 50. You put 300,000 bucks a quarter million dollars in your cash reserves for your retirement.

And you walk away from this whole mess. Let them do whatever they want to with it. Oh gosh. That's so sad to think about. Just because I've been here raised my kids here.

I get that. I get that. But now you're already alone out there now. How fast is family? Well, oh, oh.

Oh, everybody's about, you know, within five miles. Baby, twenty miles at the most. So I mean, I have everybody right here. So memories are a big thing. I have an opportunity to go run a place, a big thing.

And thinking about future you. And I know. Thinking about lawn care and mowers. And somebody behind you, I just had somebody buy a whole bunch of raw land right behind my place.

And I'm not super excited about it. I've got not. I mean, I could easily see a neighborhood back there someday. It's right. And so if the opportunity is, let's just sell it and walk away from the whole thing.

And there's developers out there that will over pay for it right now. And they'll be able to, they might be able to buy the whole chunk. They can buy that 60 lot. They can buy your other lot. And push your house.

Somebody would love it. Yeah, I would say that would help me. Because I was like a problem for your neighbors. Make a muffins or something. I don't know.

I want you just to have a conversation. You can write a letter. You can just have a quiet conversation with 75 year old you. Yep. That's a good, that's a good conversation too.

Because nobody can take the memories from you that you've had in that house. Nobody can take the love of your husband and you shared in that house. Nobody can take the adventures your kids had in that house. And 75 year old you get to own her to have a voice. And what happens next to?

Yeah. That's a good thought. It's a great plan B. So I'm not, I'm not trying to do that. I just want to make it uncomfortable for you.

So you at least think about, hey, I'm not stuck either buying this or not buying this. There's other things I need to. There just wasn't a whole lot of like vision and intentionality.

And it'll avoid some potential future problems.

Right.

“Yeah, I just don't want any, you know, you know,”

I don't want anything to change. I don't want anything to change. I don't want anything to change. It's changed. It's changed.

It's changed. Yeah, the one constant in your life. The one constant is is you're going to change. Yeah. And so as much as much as you can be in the driver seat of that change.

Mm-hmm. The better. Okay. Because it's going to happen in and around you. If you can get yourself some great position, then be awesome.

Yeah. Okay. I hope my boys aren't listening to this call because they're going to be like, "The, we told you." Yeah. It listen.

One of the greatest gifts we all have are people who love us and see our blind spots.

Yeah. And if you have two young boys or they're not young boys or young men or they're men. No, they're young. Yeah. If they're saying, "Hey, mom, we love you."

“And we think this is best for you long term.”

At least, at least give them an audience. At least give them an audience. And that can be humbling to do for aging parents. But unless they're trying to, like, I don't know George. Trying to deny it.

Trying to, yeah, yeah. And John, you will have dirt more than most people I know. So the fact that you're telling her to, to... Yeah. I'm just telling her to do it.

It's a big city. My neighbors on one side, they had like 25 acres. I tried to get it. I hadn't sold that many books. And I'm actively trying to buy a lot next to me now.

So, like, I get that impulse.

And if I can have some sort of control about who's going to be around me, I'm all in on that. But I'm also not 62. I'm also not completely alone out in the woods. I know what the maintenance and upkeep of being out in the woods is.

Yeah. It's never ending. Well, there's a reason why I also, you know, wanted a place in society. Right. Yeah.

She wants a sell signal and running water all the time. Oh, so needy. I know. I married to a modern woman. But she keeps you alive.

That's right. You'd be on the woods somewhere. Oh, I would. Like a feral animal, if it wasn't for her. Not be here.

If it wasn't for her. We'll be back. Love you, guys. Hey, you guys. Did you know that there are thousands of data brokers whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information.

Things like your home address, your phone number and even your relative's names. You guys, that is just crazy. But that is why I use delete me because those companies that pull information from public records, social media and all kinds of other places. Then suddenly, all that information shows up on random websites and removing it yourself means

going site by site, filling out forms and hoping they actually take it down. It takes hours and then it can even pop up somewhere else again. But delete me's team of privacy experts removes your personal information from hundreds of those data broker sites. And within a week, you'll get a report showing what they have found and what they have removed. And they keep scanning and cleaning up your data year round.

So, take back control of your privacy. Go to joindeleteme.com/ramsy and get 20% off your annual plan. That's joindeleteme.com/ramsy. Welcome back to the Ramsy studio in the FairWins Credit Union studio.

“I'm John Deloni joining by George and we are getting high on our own supply. Let's go up to Port's mouth. New Hampshire and talk to Avery. What's up Avery?”

Hi John. Hi George from both. I apologize for John. It's Port Smith and he knew that. He was just getting funny. What is it? Port Smith. -Port Smith. -Yes, yes. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I wouldn't name my town, Port Smith, but I didn't know it's called. What's it called? Port Smith.

Port Smith. Just Smith instead of Smith. That's all. Neither here nor there. We're here to help, Avery.

Yeah, what's up, Avery? Because we're not gonna solve this. Spelling dilemma. It's my OCD. Yeah, you know me.

What's up? Alright, rip it, Avery. My question is, how do I stop letting fear about my financial future?

As a single-pringled, Gen Z person.

Here is more of my backstory. I'm 24. Get free and ever had that. I'm on baby step 3 being, saving for home-down payment. I'm an accountant, making $63,000 a year.

I'll have my CPA license by June 20, 28. And in my family, I am being finance nerds. To the point where every single day, I feel like all I'm doing is working and obsessing over finance. It's like, you like, I just, I'm in my thoughts a lot. Very much spiraling.

I wonder how am I gonna get by the rest of my life continuing to go down this good financial path as a single person because I grew up in a single parent household. And so I saw a lot of those struggles in our own household. The other day I was wondering how am I ever going to get by. If I don't even know how to ask for a break, that work and continue to advocate for myself.

So it's a lot of spiraling and anxiety around that. And I just don't know how to consult that. I'd love to get your counsel. Let me jump in here. So I want you to flip this entire script, okay?

Okay. What if?

“And I think this is probably true to a large extent.”

What if your body's right? What if your body has a very real lived experience of growing up in a single parent home? Where sometimes the lights might get cut off or get really close.

Where your mom was always scratching and clawing to keep you all fed.

And now you're a young adult. Out into a world in a great profession that, by the way, everybody on planet Earth is saying, "A.I. is going to take it away." What if your body's alarm system was going off? Because it was working perfectly.

What if you're not crazy as what I'm trying to say? Then what we have to do is we have to get beneath the spiraling because the spirals don't help. Rumination is a complete and utter waste of time and contrary to popular belief and Instagram therapists, you can practice over time to take back control of your thoughts. Okay?

And I know this because I've done it. I was a spiraling mess, at least to call me the spiral. Because dude, I'd get going in, man. I could unwind any conversation and to everyone walk away and be like, "Oh, that's all coming down now."

You just have to decide what I want to focus my attention on.

“And you have to ask your body, "What are you trying to protect me from?"”

Your body's got a real, it's got a lived experience. Let me tell you this, you're doing the right things at 24. Some of 'em, okay? Here's what they are. You're really getting control of your finances, you don't own anybody any money.

That's good. You are working towards credentials so you can help other people. Knuckleheads like me and George, we use the same tax guy, you know why? We don't know how to do it. You're going to be there for guys like us.

That's awesome, okay? And not only are you there for guys like us, you're there for our families. That's amazing, okay? So you're doing the right things there. Let me ask you other questions.

Who, what friends do you hang out with regularly? So I have a lot of Christian Catholic friends up here. I'm part of a really good young adult's group. Otherwise, I feel like I keep my distance. I tend to notice I isolate myself a lot unless there's something that happens to happen.

Okay, so let's go ahead and I'll go ahead. Let me tell you this, your body would be failing you. If it let you sleep all night, knowing you don't have a gang. Because you're all you got. And so, instead of usually people call on the show and we're telling them how to get out of debt for you,

I want you to make a commitment to yourself. Not to get out of debt. You've already done that hard work. I want you to make a commitment that once a week twice a week, I'm going to put something on the calendar where I go put myself in the company of other people.

And I'm going to go practice not wearing a mask. You know why? Because I'm worth being friends with. Because I'm corky and weird and I'm a numbers nerd. But you know what? There's other folks out there like me. You and I'm saying.

I do. And if you're interested in romantic relationship, which I'm pretty high on them, because I'd be a worthless loser without mine, then start saying yes to things. Putting yourself out with other people. I tell people under the age of 30, I want you in your apartment or in your home,

only to sleep. Okay. I get out and see the world and experience the world.

“Because all of your roominating can't do anything about macroeconomic policy, can't it?”

All of your roominating won't do one thing on some foreign country's crypto policy will it?

Well, no. And so let's go, let's go do the things that we can't do. What's the state of your health? Um, I'm in good health. I'm not very active and I'd like to be better at it. There you go.

I don't have a lot of discipline. Okay. So your body would be failing you. If it knows, we're not on a good trajectory when it comes to movement. So we're not moving our bodies. We're going to move internally.

So make a commitment to me and George.

I don't know. I'm a couple million other people listening in. I'm going to go to the gym three to three days a week.

I'm going to go for a walk in the morning three days a week. Okay. You got him saying? And so I'm going to send you a copy of building a non-exhaust life. It's a book I wrote a few years ago about this exact thing.

And here's how I know this so intimately. Not only have I sat with the Jillian people who experience exactly what you're experiencing. I've been there. It's a nightmare. Okay.

When you feel betrayed by your own body, your own mind. And I want to tell you on the other side of this thing. Can you imagine this with me? It takes me about two minutes.

“I think that's my sleep latency, which is nerd talk for two minutes or less for my head to hit the pillow.”

And I'm out. Can you imagine that? I promise it's true. I know. I promise I used to take medicine to go to sleep, medicine to wake up.

I promise that's there for you. Okay. But you got to do that kind of work. And congrats on your finances. You're crushing your favorite. Are you doing a written budget?

I imagine a spreadsheet every month. I'm doing a budgeting app. Unfortunately not every dollar. I have you need a budget. Oh.

That's why you're having anxiety. Yeah. But here's my challenge. Regardless of what after using. Don't look at it for 30 days.

Yes. Try that out. Oh. Don't. I'm telling you not to budget for 30 days.

Don't open Excel for 30 days.

“Because I think every doesn't trust herself.”

And I'm going to prove to you that you are trustworthy. And when it comes to your finances and your future. You're doing so good. Hang on to Laura. We're going to get you hooked up with that free book.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies.

And there's two little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that. Whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level, term life insurance.

Usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options. And they've been around for over 95 years.

So you know there'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal.

“And that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years.”

I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch. Give them a call at 800 356 42 82. [Music] All right, let's go out to not Christopher Columbus, Ohio and talk to Brian.

It's a Brian. Hi. How are we doing, brother? Good. Good. I question. Should I lower my 401k contributions to pay off some debt? Yes. Next question.

Not lower it. Stop it. Yes. Stop completely. How much credit card debt do you have? 8,000 right now. 8 grand. Okay. And how much are you contributing to retirement every month? I just raised it to 20% but I used to increase it.

So you're basically willing to borrow against your investments at 22%.

Pretty much. Because I mean, if you wouldn't be in credit card debt, if you had taken that investment

Yeah. I guess. What happened? How did you end up going into debt?

I bought a condo at 21 and I never rented before.

My expense was out high and I wanted to redo the bathroom. So one of it's like an installment loan for the bathroom for five screens. How much do you have in savings right now? I have $10,000 for one paid $15,000 in stock and I bought one in books and I saved it with a count. What app are you using to do the stock trading?

It's through rain and james. Okay. But it's not a retirement account.

“It's just like a brokerage account that you're investing in single stocks?”

Yeah. Okay. So you could cash that out and cover the credit card debt today. Do it today. Do it today. You're 21. You have all the time in the world to let compound growth take over to invest. We don't have time to be messing around with 22% interest rate credit cards.

And statistically speaking, you're going to lose all that money anyway, because day traders lose their but cheeks both of them. So cash it out now and at least pay off your debts. I just feel bad because I got that money for my grandma to pass away five years ago. So I don't want to, why got that that $18,000? I don't look at it ever.

Why did she give you the money? She passed away. So is just an inheritance from grandma and she left part of it to you? That's sweet. Exactly.

Do you want to do the same for your grandkids? I like that plan. I'm guessing grandma probably didn't have debt, right? That was a principle she lived by. Yeah.

That's a pretty cool way to honor her by getting rid of your debt forever

and cutting up the cards and saying, "Never again, am I going to let this affect my ability to build wealth?"

The fact that I owe other people money. Okay. So you have a learning experience and just head off. Yeah, we lovingly call it a stupid tax. When you do something dumb, you do your 21.

I made those mistakes all the way into my 30s. And so you're way ahead of the curve, brother. So in the year four, this is all coming from Brian. We have a framework around here called the Baby Steps. So Baby Steps is a thousand dollar starter emergency fund.

“Do you have a thousand bucks to your name and cash checking your savings?”

Yeah. Great. So Baby Step 2, we pay off all the consumer debt that's everything but the mortgage. Using the debt snowball method. Do you have any debt outside of the 8K?

No. Great. No card loan, nothing? No, my card is paid off. Student loans?

No, I didn't go to school. Homey, you're winning, dude. If you crush this and I'm telling you, like, literally cut off the cards, I have not owned a credit card in 13 years. And my life has only been better for it.

And I can't go into debt if I tried because I don't have the ability to, I don't have a vehicle to do that. And that's given me the ability to build wealth instead. Because I use my own money and I feel the pain at purchase. So if I don't have a grant to the renovation,

I just have to wait and save up like in a grown adult. And that's that ability is the same muscle that's going to allow you to build wealth through the rest of your life. And I love that you're investing 20%. I think that alone tells me you're going to be just fine on the wealth building side.

You'll go use our investment calculator from 21 to 61. 40 years of investing just 15% of your current income.

If you never get a raise, you will be a multimillionaire.

And I don't even know you're income. But I know that for a fact. I don't think. I'm going to, my credit card only has 1,000 on it. And then when I bought this condo, I bought a QV for two.

I, and I've never missed a credit card payment. And I get 2% cash per account. Well, in that case, going to as much debt as possible for 2% cash back. You said you have a grant on your face part of that. Well, what's the other seven grand?

Wait, what's the, do you think, Jack, just think about this for a second. Do you think the credit card companies give you one or two percent back? Because they're your friend. Or no. You think that they have used these incredible extraordinary AI systems to know exactly how much to give you.

So you keep using their products. And they're going to make so much money off of you.

“No way, I think you're right. Because I remember in high school, I heard the apple credit card had 2%.”

And I, that was like my dream. I just like my only goal is to get that credit card. Yeah, they're not your friend. They're running a business. And if they're like, hey, we'll give you some money back.

Wing, wink. What do you make a year, Brian? I mean, 70,000, but with over time, what's that? You want to know about over time, I'll make 80. That is amazing.

So here's the deal. Two percent of that is 1,400.

That would be insane. But I'm telling you, you could make 3%. 4%, just by saving that amount of your income every month. It's a better equation. And so you guys are, I use the acorns up.

You know, like rounds up. Because that's something like round up my change. Is that something? The styling gains homey. I would delete it.

It's like going into the like pond that you're mall and trying to build wealth by collecting the change in there and thinking that your building wealth.

“I met a girl yesterday who said, I was like, I was like, you're investing?”

She said, yeah, I used the acorns up. I said, how much you have invested? $300. Yeah. By the time you retire, that's going to get you an ice cream cone.

So put that into my stock. Think that I'll make more than just delete it. Just delete it. Just I'm going to give you the playbook. Simplify your life home.

So in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, I want you to read two chapters. Number one is the credit card chapter. I go through all the different personality archetypes. You're probably at least three of them. The perfect Spender, the rewards redeemer, all of that.

And then read the wealth as patience chapter. And I will give you the playbook about where to invest, what to invest in, to give you confidence. So you're not just floundering. Because you're a really smart guy. You're doing a lot of things.

But you just need a little bit of focus and put the blinders on to not fall for all the traps.

“That 21 year olds just like you are falling for all over the country.”

Yeah, here's another way to think of it. You're going to the gym every day. And you're seeing all of these different ways. All these different machines. And you're running through and doing one rep on all of them.

It's like me at the gym, basically.

Except George has never walked into a gym in his life.

But you're running, you pick up one dumbbell and you lift one over your head once. And then you run to the one machine and you do one leg. And then you run to another machine. You're never going to get in shape that way. You might get tired.

You might be really annoying to the people around you. But you're never going to build the muscle and the strength and the aesthetic you want. Unless you just do the boring thing over and over again. Now and forth. I want one thing.

Yeah. And by the way. The last thing you need is another app. What you need right now is just a game plan. A budget.

Savings in the bank.

“Invest in pure employer retirement plan.”

We did the largest study of millionaires ever done over 10,000. Nobody was like dude, 2% cash back. Because what got me there bro. I acorned my way to millions. They all said I just put money into my 401k every year.

And these were not smart. The smartest people. They were average investors at best. But they said my wealth is in my paid fore home. And my 401k.

My employer retirement plan. That's all you need to do. Are you dating anyone? Okay. Spend your energy being a good boyfriend.

Not scrolling a corn. Take her on walks. Y'all go to a museum or something. Go fishing. I don't care what you do.

I don't even know if there's water and Columbus Ohio. Go do fun stuff. Get off these abs.

Dude, I've never in my life heard a young woman.

And the older one would be like, I love him. He's got so many financial hack apps on his phone. And he just scrolls them and we're together. I've never heard that ever. Ever.

Hang on the line, Brian. We're going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. We'll send you the audiobook if you're more of a listener. That's fine, too. That's my speed.

Hey guys, healthcare is one of the biggest stress points in your budget. It's confusing. And most of the time, it feels completely out of your control. But there is a better way to handle it. Christian healthcare ministries isn't health insurance.

It's a health cost sharing ministry where Christians share each other's medical bills. And it's not a new idea. CHM has been around since 1981. It's predictable and proven.

And they've shared over $13 billion in medical bills for their members.

Plus, you get more flexibility. There are no network restrictions. And you don't have to wait for open enrollment. Now, let's talk about how CHM helps your budget. Because programs start at just $115 a month.

And many families save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional options. So if you are tired of feeling stuck, check out Christian healthcare ministries. Right now, CHM is offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Go to CHMministries.org/budget and use promo code Ramsey. That CHMministries.org/budget and use promo code Ramsey.

Our question of the day is brought to you by YRV5.

When people get buried under private student payments, they can't keep up with. They might think there's no way out of that mess. YRV5 helps borrowers, explore solutions with fixed rate refinancing, and a payment plan tailored to their situation. Go to YRV5.com/RAMsey.

That's the letter YRV5.com/RAMsey may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Veronica in Florida. I'm almost $13,000 in debt between credit cards and a car loan. My gym membership is $50 and I have a personal trainer that charges $120 a week. I understand that I should cancel if I'm not using the gym, but I go four times a week.

“Why should I cancel when it benefits my physical health?”

So, here's the thing. What's say you John, as the person who works out? I'm saying that 14 years ago, I got on Craig's list and got a few kettlebells and started in my garage. And I also had a gym membership at the time.

And then a couple months later, I got a few dumbbells. And a couple months later, I bought a squat rack. And over the years, I've just continued adding. I still have a lot of the very first gear I got 10 years ago. And now I have a really nice, extensive home gym.

It's awesome. And I have closed personal friends that are very successful personal trainers. And it's awesome. And there's been seasons when I hire trainers for particular purposes, right? But this idea that I'm broke.

I'm going to spend. It looks like about six hundred and eighty bucks. Yeah, five fifty probably a month, right? Okay. Well, one twenty a week comes four is about four eighty.

Plus the plus fifty there you go.

“Yeah, so five hundred plus bucks a month.”

Plus all the supplements. Right, plus supplements. Right.

Here's the thing Veronica, your broke.

And you've you've given yourself a straw man here. I have to spend five hundred dollars a month or I can't be physically healthy. That's just nonsense. You can get online and you can go check out my buddies at Mindpump. Dude and get one workout program that you do from home.

Four sixty days, ninety days, 120 days while I get your, while you get your financial mess cleaned up. A personal trainer is something you buy that I love. And I actually believe in when you can afford it and you can't afford it. You're broke.

It's a luxury. It is some, yeah, it's a thing you get when you have specific goals. And you can afford it. Same as buying a Lexus. You know, Lexus is an awesome car.

A car that will last you till the end of time. And it's a luxury. It's expensive. And it should be because it's really nice. And so when you have the money and you can afford it by it, right?

Like any number of things here. But this idea that I have to have this and I have to have this. I have to have this or it's going to be detriment to my physical health. That's a choice you're making. And so yes, as someone who cares about you and your physical health,

I would tell you, pause the personal trainer, cancel your gym membership. If you can, some of these gym memberships, you're probably locked in this until 2040. But cancel your gym membership.

And write a letter with a feather pen. Have to carry your pigeon delivered.

“Yeah, no, you have to have an owl from Hogwarts delivering.”

But signing up, you couldn't do with a text. Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just what? So it makes direct eye contact and you're signed up to get out of the contract. And then when you're as soon as you can afford it and you budget for it,

then get a great personal trainer. I'm all in on that. But you can't afford it right now. And there's over six grand a year that could be going across this debt. And so yes, you're going to have to make peace with.

I'm going to pay interest a whole lot longer. I'm going to stay in debt longer. Make these payments longer. And it's going to be harder to get out. Because we want the debt free journey to be short.

Yes, like pain, but for his little amount of time is possible. And let's get on Facebook Marketplace and get a couple of dumbbells and a kettlebell. And let's work out in our garage. Do some YouTube workouts. It's six months and just knock the debt out.

And use this as your wife. Here's why I want to get our debt.

Never again do I want to have to downgrade what I'm doing with my physical health.

And it may happen what happened to me is when we started paying off debt. I canceled a lot of stuff. I realized I'm in the 15 minutes. It takes me to drive to the gym. And the 15 minutes it takes me to drive home to the gym.

Plus all the walking around and saying hi to everybody. I mean, that's half my workout. If not more every morning. And so I built that out of my garage. And now I love being there.

And now my kids work out with me. So there may be some benefits there. And I'm not running down gyms. I love them. I love personal trainers.

Veronica, you can't afford it. And here's my promise to you. Debt over time will impact your emotional health and your physical health.

So put a pin in it and get this financial mess cleared up. And then get on with your financial health right now. Boom.

“Eric, you should be like a rapper or something.”

I think that's or a puff the table for me at this point.

I absolutely for the first time I agree with you, George.

Let's go to Indianapolis and talk to Kathleen. What up, Kathleen? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Oh, I'm John. I'm just kidding. What's up? Hi, Dr. How are you?

I mean, I could not be doing better. How are you? Yes. Awesome. We have two deaths last.

Two. Two. I'm so excited. How close are you? How much are these deaths?

Oh, well, one is the market.

And the other one is my state loans.

How much are the student loans? 90,000. Dang, Gina, those are expensive student loans. Yeah. What do you guys make?

Hi. We bring home 75. Total household income? Yes. What was your degree in?

Communications. What are you doing with it? Like, what's your current role? You better be communicating a lot. I was at one of the new stations for 13 years.

And then I couldn't take it anymore. And I quit. And now I'm a blue-powered factory worker. Oh, wow. I had a girl.

All right. So how can we help? So I graduated 16 years ago. I have been hustling to pay off the student loan debt. It's got to get me anywhere.

What was the original balance? 40. So it's grown by 50. Yeah. Well, I fell into default because I couldn't find a job for three years.

And it was 2010 in recession. Okay. All right. We don't go back to you. I don't want to get distracted.

All right. So what's your question? Question. And I'm really going to keep hustling to get it paid off. It's going to be forgiven in four years.

But who is it? The forgiveness people? Yes. What program are you in? That you think it's going to be forgiven in four years?

Yes. What program are you in? That you think it's going to be forgiven in four years? Well, it's the one that bind into as long as it's not touched. Are you talking about PSLF?

The public student loan forgiveness program? Yes. You're a factory worker, sister. You know, I mean, you're not in that program. Oh.

Yeah.

“You have to like enroll and make like 120 consecutive payments”

and stay in the public sector. I did 120. And did you apply for it after your 120th? Yeah. Well, they tell you.

Um, four more years. Why would it take four more years if you've made the amount of payments you needed? Because it's not 20 years. That's what they told me. I would be not taking the gamble on this because that loan's going to be 120,000

dollars by then. And you're not going to get approved. That's my fear. I hope it's not true. It's already doubled on you. I don't want to triple.

And now you're left holding the bag extra frustrated extra hopeless. And you want to play a terrible, very unfun yet fun for me game. Go back in time with me to 2016. Now, you know, that's going to be back to 2010. 2010.

Could anyone, um, the planet have predicted we'd be living the world.

We're living the world. We're living right this second.

No, no, absolutely no. No. No. A sci-fi writers are like, "You all are doing what?" Right? And so you have way more faith in what's going to happen in four years than I do.

That's at least a presidential election away. Hmm. I would, way more trust the woman in the mirror than I would,

“hang on to anything I think the federal government's going to do in four years.”

Okay. You go and I'm saying, and I know that's good. I do. Can you try to pay it off? I would get both of your incomes up and start attacking those little--

I get with a crazy aggressive. Yeah, with a vengeance as the right words. All right. I hate to tell you that, but I don't trust that program to be there in four years. We are absolute joy killers. She started off so excited.

I know. I know. Left crawling. But it's the truth. It's all we can do.

One of our favorite things is when people share their stories about how they're winning

And we just got this awesome fan review for our every dollar budgeting app.

It says, "Every dollar's excellent. It really helped me get to get my personal finances in order." Now that I'm married my wife and I use it together out of our joint checking account, it really helps us maintain a common vision and a set of goals. Boom, yeah.

It's awesome to hear. Really good things happen when you're intentional with your money, take control of your money. Change your family tree. And then live like no one else.

Start every dollar for free today in the Apple Store or Google Play. Hey, let's roll back that last call real quick, George. I don't know how this works and so I'm asking your wisdom here. If you took out $40,000 in loans and then in a federal student loan and then it doubles over time, can you go back and try to settle that?

Or is that the new balance and that's going to be the way it is forever and ever. So you signed those dotted lines. You're in debt to the federal government. The interest is interest, legally. And when you go and deferment or forbearance, I mean, the interest can still accrue.

And so I talked to some people when we did the borrowed future podcast and I talked to these people, and they had their loans for 20 years and they're like, I don't understand. I only took out $40. They were telling me the balance is now 80. Did I get scammed?

I go, no, you just never learned how the interest works and what deferment really is.

And so it's heartbreaking to see the numbers go up after you've even made your minimum payments. And the way it works is the interest is higher than your minimum payment. Ergo the balance goes up instead of down. And to her. So I was confused.

I've never heard. So I think she was on the income driven repayment program, which is different. That has a 20 year track. The PSLF, the public student loan forgiveness program is a 120 qualifying payments. That is the finish line, so I don't even think she knows what she's in.

And I don't think she's in a forgiveness program. Gotcha. So I'm very scared for her.

“And the truth is, even if she played the game perfectly,”

there's still a high chance she would not get approved. Well, here's what's going to happen. And it's going to be palatable to the common voter. Or it's going to have to just be forced on a spy politician, which is either these things are going to have to get just dismissed.

And you're going to have millions of people who pay their loans off enraged. Or they're going to turn into very similar like IRS debt. Like LOS, we're going to start garnishing your wages. And we're going to tag you, because you owe the federal government money. I don't see another path, right?

Yeah. It's going to be one of the other. And then with every administration, they just change the changes in a change. No, we got rid of that. Every four years, it's just going to restart.

And listen, if any politician tells you, we're going to get these students are so evil. They're so bad. They're the worst things ever. They're so bad. We're going to dismiss them.

They're only telling you the truth if they also say in that same sentence or in the next sentence. And next semester, we're not going to make another loan because they're so bad for you. It's like saying, hey, the food you're eating is so poisonous. We're going to give you medicine. And then we're just going to sell it right to you tomorrow.

Right? And so if student loans are so bad, then come up with a long-term plan to stop. If government is not being involved, they're backing them. So the student loan companies are like, right, if they don't pay, the government's going to pay, which is the taxpayer, by the way, because the government doesn't make any money.

So that's a problem. And then the private student loans, they can be even skummier. Right. They can do what they want. And so there's no good way to take out student loans.

“The best way just to avoid student loan debt altogether.”

And if you have it, aggressively pay it off. It's aggressively. No one's coming to save you. All right. Let's go out to Des Moignes to Des Moignes.

To Des Moignes, I wouldn't talk to Claire. Hey, Claire, what's up? Hi, how are you? Good. What's up?

So I'm considering two options. One, I can stay out here and I got a boyfriend here, he farms. And I can stay at my job, which paid him pretty well. Or I'm looking at returning to Texas and taking over the family business for a pretty significant pay raise, and it's really hard to decide.

Short and direct choice. I know that a W2 employee does not have the same kind of long-term earning potential as a business owner. But they don't have the same long-term risk in some cases, too. Right?

That is true. That is true.

But take all that off the table for a second.

I've just finished a two-year project. Digging into the answering the question is being married still worth it. This is still worth it in the modern era.

“And if so, how in the world are we supposed to do it?”

Right? And one of the data points that I found that surprised me the most was the net financial benefit to a good or great marriage over the long haul. It relies in a really extraordinary way. Because you got two people who can pick up a slack for each other.

Sometimes one person's able to carry the way to home with a person's kid.

“But it just has a net benefit over time.”

So, hey, tell me about this knucklehead farmer boy that you're in love with. Is he awesome? He is pretty awesome. He is pretty awesome. My dad wishes I hadn't been a farmer because he wouldn't be so well-locked.

But he is pretty great. He owns a business. He's also got a family operation that he's working with. He understands if I leave. You'd understand why.

Okay. So, let me ask you a second question. Not one time did you say I really am invested in this family business. I love this business. I want to be a part of it.

You mentioned some money.

Yeah, so I've never been involved in the family business on my side in Texas.

It's accounting and finance, which is not what I currently work in. But it's also software. So, that is sort of what I work in today. I am passionate about the mission. It does work with not for profits.

But just like the farmer boyfriend, I recall her has been what I've been chasing since I was 18 years old. Okay. So, is that your love, your passion? You're like, I don't want to leave agriculture. Or, do you find to leave that life potentially in this relationship

“to make some great money and work in the family business?”

Yeah, I'm not sure. I think stability is important to me. And I certainly want to do my family proud. And if this legacy is something that they want to pass on, this would actually be a second generation family business.

Then you don't want to let those people down, right? Well, but that's a lot of pressure now. But you're in the driver's seat of your life. How old are you? Yes, I should be.

I'm 26. Okay.

At some point, there's going to come a day

when your dad won't be driving the car that is your life. And you get to decide when that is. That is really fair. Right? And if that means I'm going to give up my passion I've had since I was 18.

I'm going to give up a really stable relationship with a really great guy who has also a part of a legacy family business. And I'm going to go literally opposite. I'm going to go halfway across the United States to do so. Then so be it.

But go because you want to go. And you work in software. You work in technology. Ask yourself. The words I'm hearing the most on the AI disruption is in finance.

Yeah, absolutely. And we are trying to, well, the family doesn't some Texas is trying to account for that and be it. Be ahead of it a little bit. Okay, I see what you did there. That was a good joke.

Okay, so I guess I can't help you George. I don't know if you can't. I'm just wondering, does this have to happen now? What's the urgency? So I have been given a deadline of about a month.

And if you don't take it, who does? They will hire somebody to do the job in Texas. Okay. Are you okay with that? You know after this call, I think I might be.

I'm just like, I don't want you to feel this pressure. Like, you're the savior of this whole thing. And if you don't take it, the family name is solid.

“It just feels like we're creating too much drama around it when the truth is.”

They're willing to go hire a stranger off the street to do this.

You've never been involved in it.

You've never raised your hand and said, I want to go work in this business. And so if it's just for a pay raise, I think you're going to do astoundingly well in the current career filled your end if you just keep going.

Let's flip this other side of this. When Dave started talking to his kids about taking over ownership of Ramsey and working here, he didn't make them. In fact, they had to go through the paces to say, No, no, no, no, I really want this.

The Daniel is our current president. He got to start as a teenager painting stairwells and working in shipping. And had to work his way up through sales. Like, right, he had to prove to Dave, I want to take this thing on.

Not. You better do it. I'm going to go hire somebody else. You get him saying? Yeah, absolutely.

I think that's a really good point. And that is how I see my boyfriend saying. He's a business operator. Okay. So you've got to own the final decision.

Decision here. So I don't want you to be like, well, these two random B-level podcasts are told as I should. Like, I want you to own this and make a firm decision. But I want you to imagine yourself in the driver's seat of the car that is your life.

Where do you want to go? Plus, this feels like a hallmark movie. And I want to see the happy ending here. How do you do? Mary the farmer.

Mary the farmer. Mary the farmer. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwins Credit Union. Studio. It's got to Manhattan Kansas and talk to Stephanie.

Hi, how are you guys? We're doing great. How are you? I'm doing great. This was taking my call.

You got it. What's up? Yeah.

“So my husband and I, we had a rental house.”

It was my primary house before we got married. And so we're just kind of at a crossroad. We don't know if we want to sell it. And kind of cash it out because the equity in it is quite a bit. And move on with our lives.

Or if we want to hold on to it. Pay off get in a couple of years. And then have this asset. Do you like being landlord?

Unfortunately, the first time we're really in the woods was at the

location. So it left the bad taste in our mouth. But we definitely learned what not to do. Is that makes sense? Okay, but that was a great, great way to evade my question.

Do you like being a landlord? Yes or no? Yes or no? I'm a no. Okay, cool.

Just let that be. Just let that be. It's okay. What is it worth? So it is worth between 150 to 200.

And I owe about 12,000 on it. Oh, nice. It's almost paid off. That's fantastic. Yes.

Okay.

So let's flip the script here.

If you didn't own this thing, you have your life you have now. Would you sink the money to go buy this thing as a rental property? No. So why are we hanging on to it? Because it was your house before you got married.

Yeah, it was my baby. And I had a house fire in it. So I kind of broke it up from bottom up kind of. But definitely attached to it. But also, I got an advice for it.

I was like, oh, no, don't sell them. I'm like, we're ready to sell it. And I were like, wait, is that stupid? It's worth 100,000 more next year. So yeah, we're just really like, not sure what to do.

We would do one of them to the life. We're going through it in fertility.

“And that's what it kind of helped us go through that process a lot more smoother.”

Yeah, that's a pretty big wall in the house. Yeah.

That's a great way to have to get out of that and get some financial footing.

How much debt do you guys have? Including that house and our current house. We're about 64,000. But no consumer debt is just mortgages. Um, we do have about 6,000 in credit card.

That's me. And then 8,000 in a car. Okay. So we have really 14,000 in consumer debt. And the rest is mortgages.

Yes. What's the household income? Um, he brings about $4,500. And I was full time. I cut back to like super super part time when we realize we're going to

infertility. Um, so I bring about 800 a month. Okay. So total currently is 5,300 a month. About that.

Yeah.

“Oh, how much margin do you have at the end of each month?”

How much is left over that you can use to tackle debt? Um, we just this year. We've really buckled on the budget. And we realized we could have between. One month we have like a thousand and then last month we had like 200 because some stuff came up.

Okay. So at this rate, that's just scenario. It would still take you over a year just to get rid of the consumer debt, the 14,000. Mm-hmm. That's a long time while you're trying to also deal with the infertility, right?

Right. And we do have about 11 grand in savings, which we've been holding off on. If we need you repair to the house to sell it or if we do need to put it into fertility. So we haven't quite no wall affected it and put it towards all the debt you get because they're not sure. Like I had two surgeries last year.

Things like that. It's been really interesting. What if we flip the script again? Um, how old are you when you bought this house? I was 23.

Okay. How long did you own it before there was the fire and you rebuilt it? I hear. Okay. Go back and have an imaginary conversation with 24-year-old you.

And imagine her looking at you. How old are you now? Thirty-four, I'll say five. Almost 35. Imagine 24-year-old you.

Looking at 35-year-old you. And 24-year-old you saying the following. I'm going to buy this house and I'm going to fix it up when it burns down. I'm going to do a ton of hard work, a lot of sweat equity, because one day we want to be a mom. And one day this is going to be worth a whole lot of money and it's going to get you and some new

knuckle-headed husband that you haven't even met yet. It's going to clear all the debts for y'all. It's going to pay off the house you'll live in. It's going to put some cash in the bank so that y'all can go through the harrowing process that is infertility. I want us to have a baby.

So I'm going to do all this work at 24 so that I can hand you this over when you're 35 and you'll be set up. That changes the whole thing, huh?

Yeah, so here's a math on that.

You net 130 from the sale of this place. You pay off your 14,000 consumer debt. You pay off the other mortgage. Well now you have 60 grand laying around on top of the 11 you have laying around. So now you have a full emergency fund and money to do these fertility treatments without going into debt ever again with no stress.

And by the way, you're 35 in a new marriage and you have a pay for house. Right?

“And so is there a possibility this house goes up and value next year?”

Five years from now, 10 years from now? Yep. But do you want to be having a conversation with 45 year old you saying, you know what? We decided to keep borrowing money. We decided to go 100 grand in debt with infertility treatments that may or may not have worked.

And we really wanted to have some equity in a home I owned when I was 24. Aren't you proud of us?

Or did you rather talk to 45 year old you who may be holding a five year old in a three year old or a five year old in a two year old or whatever?

And say we don't owe anybody anything and we decided we wanted to have the life that we wanted to have. I want that. You know what I'm saying? I think selling it would be way more life changing than keeping it. Agreed.

That's the simplest way to put it. And so if I'm in your shoes, based on what you told us, I would sell it today. I'm offloading. I'll do the minimal repairs needed to make it palatable for the market to sell to get top dollar for it. And if you need a real estate, probably you can jump on a Ramsey Solutions dot com slash agent.

And they'll get you the best deal they can. I would move forward with this because I think your your why is too strong to be hanging on to this default landlord life. I agree definitely talking it up a lot and put it in perspective for sure. We do us a huge favor.

When baby number one is born, when you call back into the show.

And let me and George cheer you on. Yeah, I love the way are they now.

“That's one of the best way are they now is I can think of as you calling back.”

And then we hear a baby screaming in the background. Yeah, it's one of my favorite things in the world. And I've been there. Well, it's a harrowing long walk and it's lonely. And yeah, we want to celebrate with you when it when it happens.

Okay. Thank you. I will do that. Awesome. We'll be looking forward to it.

They'll be fantastic. John, that calls such a great reminder that the baby steps are not meant to be optimal. The baby steps are meant because life isn't optimal. Yeah. That's the craziest part to me.

Is the reason you do it is to have flexibility, options, and margin when life goes sideways. All right. On paper, it didn't. It's like on a go sideways.

“And I think the grief you and I take, you take it way more than me.”

But the grief we take from internet potshotters and social media potshotters and other influencers are, yeah, but look at this. Look how much money you're leaving on the table. Look how much money you're just holding on to. You're paying this out of order.

There's a reason, and it's because none of these formulas in a spreadsheet account for life happens. And when you talk to thousands of people, going through cancer treatment, infertility, job loss, then you realize margin and psychological wins are way more important than arbitrage. Leftridge here.

[MUSIC] Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey Today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

Charleston, South Carolina. Let's talk to Aubrey. What's up, Aubrey? Hi, how's it going? Excellent.

How are you, brother? Doing good. It's weird. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys listening to you guys for a long time. We were just talking.

We can't believe we're talking to you, man. That's awesome. What's that? Very cool. Yeah.

Well, my son, Henley, he's 11 years old. And he opened up Pokemon Pack the other day. It's impossible to get him, but he's a grandmother, bottom of Pokemon Pack. And he happened to get a very valuable card in the pack.

How valuable? It's about $1,000.

“Well, probably about $1,400, but we sold it to a local card shop.”

So we got about $1,000. Wow. $1,000. Yeah. We'll kind of part of it.

We'll kind of part of it. In acquiring mines, one or no. It was the Mega Gang REX. The most current release. That's like the Chase card that everybody's after.

George has that tattooed on his lower back. Oh, that's the card. Yeah. Right above the Aztecs son. He has that one tattooed there.

How old was your son? He's 11. Okay. Wow. And do you give him the money?

Yeah. Yeah. He's gotten, we're letting him decide how he wants to do it. So he's a very, very responsible 11 year old. He's going to laugh.

But I want to let you guys know. He's, he's, uh, listen, he's read the total money makeover. And then he listen on audible to Andre leadership and smart money's Marquette. So he's like goodness gracious.

So you know, like I was for this guy. He'd get him a bunch of toilet paper and teach him how to wrap houses or something. You're, you're in danger of, of creating a nerd bigger than even us. That's awesome. Yeah.

Way to go. He's a good kid. All right. So what's your question, man? Yeah.

So he's wondering what he should do with it. Um, he has a plan so far.

“Don't know if you want to share what he's thinking so far with you guys.”

Sure. Yeah.

We basically, you know, from the smart money smart kids.

He said there's three things you can do with money. You can save it. You can spend it and you can give it. So he wants to give $300 to the church. He wants to save $300.

He wants to spend $200. And then have the other $200 for like gifts for family and friends. And kind of find other people stuff. How do we clone this kid? Yeah.

This is crazy. He wants to buy $1,000 worth of Pokemon packs to redo this. I'm like, you created a generate gambler at this point. Let's do it again. I love that.

You think so. Yeah. He's just super generous and we're almost. Almost found myself trying to discourage his generosity. I'm like, I don't think that's quite the right move here.

So he wanted to get your guys thoughts on on that plan. And. Yeah. My only concern would be.

Um, with what you just told me is amazing.

And that that's a direct reflection of the parenting he's receiving. So kudos to you, man. Like as the father of a 10 year old, like, well done. It's awesome. Um, we need more young people in the out in the world like him.

Yeah. My only concern would be that there's no sort of. This isn't the right word, but it's close enough. Uh, survivors guilt. I got this money.

I'm a grandma bought me something. I went to the thousand bucks. And so I kind of owe 200 bucks to the side to buy other people's stuff. Right. And I would sit down with my son or my daughter at that age.

And make sure, like, I do believe I have an obligation. I owe. If as a tie there, I have a responsibility to pay back to my local church. Because I know where that money is going. It's going out of the local community.

Right. And to help the least of these in our community. I, that's a, that's a responsibility I have. But if I'm going to buy gifts for friends, family, I want that to come from a place in His heart of it because I want to, not because I feel like, kind of feel bad.

Because I got this thing. So I kind of owe everybody to go to him saying. And it's just a moment to teach him about emotions and about the spirit of things. And obligation, which. It's a tough, those are tough concepts for adults throughout the head around much less.

11 year olds. But it can just open up some great conversations with you guys. Yeah, yeah, I think that's good. And I'm probably sure to have that conversation. And then make sure if he's wanting to give that much if that's not coming from a place of guilt.

Yeah. And it may just be. He saw grandma's eyes light up and he loves given stuff away. I remember, I mean, I've talked about this a lot on the show. But my son and I for years went to breakfast once a week at a local waffle house.

And that was a way I taught him.

Here's what generosity like looks like, right?

Um, let's like, let's be ridiculous and tip these waiters. And their response was so extraordinary. We developed relationships with the weight staff because we went there all the time for years. Um, that I had to teach him. Hey, you can't tip all of your money away because you got to pay bill.

“Like you're going to have to, like, not a light bill one day, right?”

Because because it was so overwhelming. The reward was so big. And so I never imagined I'd have to teach a seventh grader that lesson. Like, well, you got to hold on to some of your money. And you can't just give it all away.

Um, but, uh, man, I'd much rather be teaching from that place than the other, right? Good for you, man. So yeah, the ratios might be slightly off. You guys might decide, hey, let's do 100 to the church. We're going to do 100 that spontaneous.

So for our, and we have a great server, you can hand them that $100 bill. We're going to put a couple hundred bucks in a high yield savings account for short-term goals. I mean, the kids going to be driving in five years. And we know how expensive the cars are. And maybe put some in a long-term plan.

Like a 529 plan for college just to show him and get him understanding compound growth.

Teach him about how much you you tie and what percentage you use. And here's why.

“And so instead of tithing 30% maybe you say, hey, me and your mom, because of this scripture,”

because of this teaching, because of whatever, here's how much we tie. Um, it's your money. You're free to do with what you, what you want. But here's what we do. And here's why.

And you begin to teach him the why underneath some of these exercises.

And I think they can be a really powerful, like, uh, intimacy.

And like, it's, it's a way to connect with them at a deeper level, right? Yeah. Well, and with that, like, I mean, we, I don't know, you're guys thoughts. We weren't planning to like override his decision on it. I mean, we were thinking to, you know,

a thousand dollars, you're going to come and go, right? Like, this is more of a teaching opportunity for him. And even experience handling what's a lot of money for someone his age. And when you guys agree with that, to not kind of override, I guess unless you've been doing something crazy. I think it's on here. Yeah, I get, I get that question a lot.

When someone's like, hey, my kid just got 50 bucks for rake in the neighbor jar. He wants to blow it on a Lego kit and he's 10.

“I say let him blow it because they're going to, that's how they're going to learn.”

I'd much rather than do that, then get their first raise at 22, like I did. And go buy a stupid truck. You can't afford it. You want their regret and failure to happen when they're eleven with a thousand dollars and not thirty-one with a hundred thousand dollars. That's right. So it's a great lesson to learn because nothing's on fire and there's nothing fatal here.

But I would let him have the final say and US sort of a guide can just offer some recommendations. You got, what do you think, bud? A great, a great senate starter with an 11 year old is. I teach me about what you want to do this. Teach me about where you came up with a number three hundred four.

And teach me about wanting to put 200 aside.

If you want to give away fifty percent half of this money, that's amazing.

Yeah. Tell me about that. And have him just, like let him know at the age of eleven that he can talk to his dad about stuff. You can talk to his mom about stuff. Because now your plant and seeds are going to pay off 10, 20, 30 years from now, which are amazing.

Yeah, absolutely. It's great. I've got a commission from the winnings. She better. I feel like if Grandma bought me a lottery ticket and I hit, I feel like I should get grandma a little something.

Some flowers. Yeah. Good idea. Oh, that's awesome.

You guys are so great all around.

This is a great, great question. Quick, short follow up. With that any, we counted to be on what is he saving for right now. And if that should be in a high yield or if that should be in an investment. Maybe my thought was the car is probably the next thing you save him for, but any, any input from you guys on that.

Put an high yield savings. Yeah, I mean cars probably the big one and then college is not too far beyond that. And so I like, I like showing him how short term savings works for goals and then how long term investing works.

“And I like the mix of both because he'll get a hand along both of these things are important.”

There's not really a priority here. It just depends on when the goal is going to happen. Okay. So I like this all around teaching a little giving little short term saving long term investing and of course spending. Yeah.

Let him enjoy himself. He's 11. Yeah, and you may have to look at him and say, hey, you know, this Dave Ramsey guy you love. He spends a lot of time in Cabo, like you learn to spend your money too. Right? Dave's insanely generous and Dave has a good time also.

Right. So you might have to push him a little bit like, hey, we're going to go spend some of this money. We're going to have some fun. Yeah. Because we want him to enjoy his teaching. So I'm going to be well rounded and balanced.

That's one of the most difficult things you can do. Because people tend to fall on one side of the teeter totter or the other. Yeah. All right. We'll be back soon. Hey, guys, George Camel here. You ever feel like you may good money and still have nothing to show for it.

You're running to target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles. Just me. Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money.

So it does whatever it wants. And that's why we created every dollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Every dollar simple. It's clear and it helps track where your money's actually going.

Plus, you get daily lessons to do's and reminders along the way. It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give every dollar a full-time job. Go download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play.

It's built and trained on proven Ramsie principles.

Today we're going to break down the most asked questions from this past week on Ask Ramsie. Yeah, we got some questions around budgeting. How to pay off debt, building wealth. But the number one question was around retirement. And this is the age old question.

“How can I determine if I have enough savings to retire?”

You age old. See, like, that's retirement. This comes down to one core idea. You have enough saved so that you can live off the growth without depleting the principle. So without getting it down to zero while you're still alive.

That's not fun. So your annual retirement expenses, you can divide that by 0.1. That's your retirement nest I go. If you're looking at 10% rate of return annually. So if you need 60 grand a year to live on, you need at least $600,000 invested in good

growth stock mutual funds averaging 10% annually. So that 60 k comes from growth alone.

Your principle, stay intact.

The 600 grand if that happens. So to get your number, ask yourself, where do you want to live in retirement? What does your ideal lifestyle look like? Will you have any other income streams? Like pension, social security, part-time work.

That all gets factored in here. And then a few important reminders. If you're young, especially, I would not fully count on that social security number. Especially as your primary income. I would absolutely have it be a bonus that may come.

I'll land for it to not exist. It's gravy on top. And be completely dead free before you retire. If you fall the Ramsey Plan, you don't have a mortgage payment. You don't owe anyone money.

You've got plenty money in the bank. You've been investing for several decades. And then healthcare costs. That's a big one.

Nobody truly knows what healthcare costs are going to be when you retire.

Unless you're retiring this year, then you have a pretty good picture. So that's another piece to factor in. And ask Ramsey can help you get started planning for retirement. And it can connect you to a smart investor pro. So there's the big caveat.

When it comes to a decision this big with this much writing on it, I'm not just going to go to AI to figure it out. No. It's a good starting point. But getting connected with an actual registered investment professional.

Who has the heart of a teacher. That's the key. And we've been connecting listeners to them for over 20 years. Smart investor pros can help you create and reach those goals. Help you make informed investing decisions.

So you can find that at ramsyslutions.com/smartvester.

“And if you want to check out Ask Ramsie or free AI tool,”

just jump on ramsyslutions.com. All right. Let's roll out to Toronto Ontario. Or as Texans call it, "Northern Oklahoma" and talk to Alex. What's up, Alex?

Did we lose him? Alex, you there. It's that Canadian phone line stuff. They just can't figure it out. All right.

We'll try Alex later on. Let's go to Greg in Charlottesville, Virginia. What's up, Greg? Hey, John and George. It's an honor to speak with y'all.

Huge thanks about your shows. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you, man. What's up? Hey, so my wife and I are having the opportunity to buy the house

that we are renting. We've been renting it for five years. We love the property. That's a two-and-a-half-acre property, single-family home. The reason we have some pause,

because I've heard Dave talk a lot about many taxor homes, and the way they go down in value. This is a double-wide that is on a permanent foundation. You know, it's got block foundation all the way around. The title has also been relinquished to the county,

so it's a permanent dwelling. It's to the rule, both that many taxor homes be down in value. You still apply to this situation versus one that's parked on a rented piece of land with wheels on it.

I've not heard Dave talk about that. I don't know. I just go, if you weren't renting this place, would you guys be on the market going, that's the one?

Probably. Because of the market in this area.

“What's it cost for a single-family home in your area?”

$17 million. So the comp store, I'd like a three-bedroom, two-bath, 16-hunter square foot house, and two-and-a-faker is this probably four-bath year-round year.

Okay. And we have the opportunity to buy this one for 300. That feels like a lot of money for a house for that type. Okay.

So the landlord with a great relationship with him, he's owned it for 15 years, and he bought it for 90. And it's now a praise right at 300. Is the home appraising for that,

or is the land appraising for that?

Yeah, the land itself is almost 200.

“Yeah, I would imagine the land is what's appreciated”

around this, especially in Toronto, getting 200-- The real asset-- The two-and-a-fakers is the dirt. Yeah. What's your financial situation?

Well, it's fine. We have no doubt. We're ready to buy. How much do you have in say? We love about $50,000.

So you'd be taking on a $250,000 mortgage? Yeah. Have you crunched the numbers on a 15-year fixed rate to see what that payment went at up being? Yeah.

It all works fine. We'd be fine. We would actually love to buy it. I was a serious--

if there was any insights on the double-wide.

Outside, it looks like a ranch house. It has no-- I know you couldn't tell what's the double-wide for me outside inside. It still has the paneling on the walls.

We've looked here for five years. We love it. I just wanted to really wanted to get the thing in on that.

“I mean, obviously, it's appreciated, but I think that's because of the dirt,”

not because of the house. So I don't want to-- I don't want you to be misled thinking that, well, this house is going to be worth 500,000. It may one day, but that's going to be largely due to the dirt,

and that house will be scrapped, and they'll put something else on there. Yeah, given the way-- how they've surrendered the title, et cetera. So I can't give you an answer.

I don't know.

We'd be lying if we were like--

Yeah. It absolutely will do this or this. I would just personally-- If you're not ready to buy a traditional single-family home, then I would just pause and keep renting,

and wait to get that $400,000 house a year or two from now. Or at the very, very least, brother, I know you've lived there for five years. I would still go through the entire Righamaru and get a full home inspection on it,

and talk to an inspector. Even though you've lived there and said, "No, we know everything about this house. We've lived there for five years. I don't want someone to come through.

I'd be worth the money for me to make sure I knew what I was getting into, and what it's worth." And you may want to check with a mortgage professional in your area. And check and see if there's lending law differences on mobile homes versus traditional homes.

I just don't have enough-- I don't know enough. Dave might be at the top of his head. I talked with Churchill, and they-- We've started the process.

Okay. And I trust-- I trust them. I mean, I've trusted them multiple times. And so-- What do you guys make?

About 80. Okay, I'm just trying to think how long would it take you guys to save up another 50 grand or zero 70 grand? Would that be two, three years? At least.

Because so, Righamaru, we've been there for the five years that we've lived here. We've saved the 50 and five, but we've been only paying a thousand and rent. We moved out, which, when Righamaru said,

we were either moving out or we're buying. Anything else in the area is 1800 to 2500 in rent. We're renting from my employer, actually, so we've been getting great deal with that. And so, if we move out,

that's kind of one of the other motivations for just buying it because of what Righamaru is going to be if we-- we'd sort it out. You have a rent as temporary. And this home is a long-term decision.

So that's the piece I'm thinking through. It's 10 years from now. Are you going to be really glad you bought this thing? Or are you going to go, man? It probably wasn't the smartest decision at the time.

We were kind of strong-armed into it with this ultimatum of either go rent, freighting, hundred, or buy it. And so, that's the part that I don't like doing this from a place of sort of urgency. I have to.

I've got to keep my bars happy. I've got to keep my, yeah, yeah. But it sounds like you guys-- What if we-- You've made the decision?

What if we were just like-- Was this-- Should we be continued down this path? Yeah. Yeah.

What if you what? What if we bought it thinking we would sell it in five to seven years?

“That's what I can't give you an answer on.”

If it was a traditional mobile home, I would say, it's going to go down in value. Because it's by itself on two and a half acres, there's a possibility in Toronto that the dirt appreciates pretty significant.

That's what you're hoping for in that scenario. And that's just-- I can't-- I can't see a world where the home appreciates, but maybe the dirt will appreciate.

But nobody can look in a crystal ball like that. ♪ All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates.

you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling.

There are people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day.

Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at RamseySolutions.com/agent. That's RamseySolutions.com/agent. Today's scripture of the day is first Peter 5-8. Be alert and of sober mind. You're enemy that devil prowls around the croaring line looking for someone to devour.

Jordan Peterson says, "Don't be a slave to stupid rules." Like your clothes have to match all the time, George. How do you know? Well, I can just see your clothes match. Fashion has rules.

Mine don't always. They may be stupid and rules. Jordan Peterson famously wears matching suits. Yes, suits are pretty fancy. Yeah.

“Let's go out to James and boss and hey James, what's up, man?”

Hey, how are we going? Doing alright brother. How are you, man? Hey, doing pretty good.

So me and my fiance, we both joined.

We have one kid together right now. And did you say you're 20? Yes. Okay. We both moved out when I was 16.

We moved out when she was 17. Neither of us have parents behind us at this point. And you recently found out that I'm terminally ill. And I have like 10 to 12 years. That's the kind of estimate.

Okay. And so what's the diagnosis, man? I would like to keep the private. It's more having to do with brain function. Okay.

And so yeah, so I'm like about 30 an hour right now.

She makes about 25 an hour. And so I guess my question is, we both are going to school right now. I'm going to school to be an electrician. She's going to school to be a registered nurse. And it's like 10 to 12 years left.

I was wondering if it would be better for us to go out and take a loan out to get a house now. That's something that she has for one on bond. Or a couple years until we're both settled in our jobs. And I don't think the size of that house would change much. But you know, we can do a lot of work ourselves.

We can get up. But yeah, I got to leave my question. So first off, man. You're pretty sober minded for a 20 year old with a with a young child in a fiance. And it's like to just tell you, man, I hate to turn this position.

I hate it for you, man. Yeah. Thank you. Well, yeah, especially.

“How long have you been wrestling with this diagnosis?”

I'm fur of the past year now. Oh, yeah. So it's it's set in. This is happening, right? Yeah, no definitely.

This isn't going to be any help at all. But can I just say this? I have close friends who work in pretty advanced medicine right now, especially with this influx of wild new technology. And for whatever it's worth, it may be worth keeping a light on.

The story I'm being told, there's going to be some earthshattering transformations in health technology over the next five to six years. And I'll be praying for you, man. And I hope that some of these discoveries and some of these new interventions may be. It will support you and change your life, man. Yeah, no, definitely.

I mean, I turn with my wife like there's going to be cure and trying to each day to expose you. Love it. Love it. The last thing on earth I would do is sign up for a chain myself to any sort of payment that I'm going to have to make. Because with a 10 to 12 year window,

they I'm sure they told you that might be six years to might be five years also. Right. No, it's at least 10 years. But yeah, I wouldn't recommend that I love the idea of your wife going to get a.

“Or if you want to say about through your wife, I love the idea of her getting a certification like this.”

It's going to give her a career after you've passed. You entering into being electrician right now, I mean, that's a seven year process, isn't it? Before you're fully licensed. Yeah, I have some some scholarships to get some money off of that and also do a kind of fast pace course. How could you get out into the field?

He had electrical company and he's going to help me get in there early and do a.

Work for him. So here's what I want you to keep in mind.

The single most precious resource you have right now is time. And so if I'm looking at a three year old is about to be a four year old and I'm looking at one to two to three more years of having to work. Five million hours a week to try to get my journey of his license to do this. And I'm making 30 bucks an hour right now on my current job and my wife's about to be a registered nurse and maybe we can invest in her so that she can go get her nurse practitioner degree or she can get her bachelor's in nursing.

Like that would be where I begin to look at.

“What's the best thing I can do to provide is is it also going to school just because I have some scholarship opportunities or am I going to be the greatest foundation and anchor so that she can go build an amazing life.”

So in the event I'm not here. She is so set up to go do whatever she wants to do. All right, yeah, but time. No, that's really what I want to do for her. Time is the thing. And so if time means you're going to be at home and you're going to be an anchor presence you're making 30 bucks an hour, which is a great hourly wage, man.

You're not going to, you know, you're not going to go buy a 17,000 square foot house with 30 bucks an hour, but man, that's a good wage.

Especially if you can support her, she can go get a nursing degree debt free.

You can spend precious precious time with this baby that's coming. That's where my head goes. George, what do you think? Yeah, do you guys have any debt currently? No, no debt. Do you have savings in the bank?

Oh, yeah, about 10 grand. Awesome. Well, I definitely would not go out and buy a house right now. It's not going to give you this stability you think because that payment is going to stay that payment. And if something were to happen to you, well, now she's on the hook for that payment, otherwise she needs to sell this house.

And so I would wait until you guys are financially ready to buy this house. As if you didn't have this diagnosis and just save up a strong down payment.

I mean, I'm from the Boston area.

I don't think you can get a house at 20 within a three mile radius of the city without it. So I don't live in Boston, but it's in a rural area. So what is the house going to cost? Um, you can get some for $2.25 to $300. Okay.

So it's still. We've been making a whole thing out with rates right now. You might still be looking at, you know, almost a six figure down payment to do this the right way where it's 25% of your monthly take home pay. And then I would work to pay this thing off the next 10 to 15 years. And so putting a huge down payment buying a reasonable home that's going to help you knock out the mortgage fast.

“That's the best thing you can do for her is leave her with no mortgage payment, no debt, a bunch of money in the bank.”

And in the meantime, invest for the future, invest for that child for college in a 529 plan, invest in your own retirement that she will then inherit one day. And so you leave her in the best position possible to where she's not scrambling. So what if in a couple years, she's going to be a red shirt nurse. And she's making course a $15 an hour could I in these next few years be saving both of us saving up a bunch of cash to put down like whatever 50 grand or something like that.

Absolutely. Yeah, that my next goal for you guys is every dollar is focused on that down payment fund and we're just putting in a high yield savings account for the next. Let's say two years. How much money could you guys sock away in two years doing this? Um, that's how to say I would say 25.

I'm going to be 30. So 15 grand a year little over a thousand bucks a month is what you guys could do right now. Yeah, probably. And also cash flow her nursing school. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that's the plan. And if it takes another year or two after that to get the down payment once her incomes up, then I would do that. Because you're probably going to need at least 50, 60, 70 down on a $230,000 home in order to keep it at that 25% of take home pay. So that's the that's the math equation you're trying to solve for here. And so the babysept still apply the math is the math.

I would have a will in place. I'm assuming you don't have term life insurance at the time of the day goals. Okay. And I'll tell you this. I haven't sat with.

I have a question. Yeah. I doubt it with the diagnosis. They're going to look up every single medical record you've ever had. Regardless.

I mean, you're going to have to. I mean, you're going to have to. I mean, you're going to have to. I mean, you're going to have to. I mean, if it would be.

Yeah, it would be fraud at that point.

“So they're going to ask if you have to diagnose this.”

Whatever you can still contact them. See what your options are. They might be like a guaranteed issue policy.

It helps cover like part of the mortgage.

“But it's not going to be what you usually can get.”

We'll be thinking about your brother James.

Thanks for the call, my man.

“Remember there's ultimately only one way to financial piece.”

And that's to walk daily with a prince of peace.

Christ Jesus.