You Don’t Have to Retire Broke—Time Changes Everything

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From the Ramsy Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsy Show. Thanks for joining us America, George Campbell, Ramsy, personality, number one bestselling offer. These are my co-hosts today. Open phones here at Triple 8, 825, 5225. It's a free call and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

“John is in Fresno, hey John, what's up in your world?”

Hey, I'm a huge fan of both of you guys. So I'm debt free, I'm self-employed. I've got six figures in the bank, but like contrast, my girlfriend have been with for four years. It has really, really bad spending habits, it's almost like she doesn't know the difference between what she needs and what she wants. And I'm trying to get her on board with some goals or some budgeting, but it's just really hard, you know, she's just overspending on a whole bunch of stuff.

And we're trying to move and leave California and I just don't know how to move forward or what, you know, what they really do. Wow. How old is she? She is about to be 32. What's she make? How much income?

Well, she would make about 16 to 1800 a month, but she gives up a lot of her hours and she doesn't drive. So there's rideshare, she's buying a lot of food at work instead of cooking or packing something. Well, I wasn't asking about her food, I was asking about her work. So she works on time and she doesn't sign gifts. What?

No, I'm just saying that's where a lot of the money goes and then she doesn't have enough to pay for. What should I work about? 1600 bucks a month and California is poverty. Yeah. So how did she exist before you?

She lived with either friends or family, but she used to walk to work and I guess I get

it's never really been a lot and come for her.

You guys live together? Yeah, they're talking about moving away together.

“So you've been, have you been subsidizing some of this behavior on the way with it?”

Is that part of the issue? A little bit, and I was saying I really don't want to enable further, you know, yeah. This is sticky, dude. It's really sticky, okay? So, how old are you?

What do you make? I'm doing pretty good. I make, so I am like a sidekick guy, but I make about four to five a month. I got a lot of bills that you're talking about moving to where? Nevada.

Why?

No state income tax, I can actually put a down payment on a condo, third building to

equity, I don't know. Affordable real estate and less income tax, okay? That's a good reason. Yeah. All right.

Also not a big fan of California, so go to the reasons. Okay. So the thing we know is the data tells us the number one calls of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. These are people that are on two completely different pages, not different personalities

styles, but different pages, different values, completely. And so they spend their married life driving each other crazy. You being a tight-wad that crosses every T and dots every eye and doesn't come out of the cave except on triple coupon Thursday and her spending like she's in freaking Congress. After the Twain Show meet, right?

And so I mean, I don't want her to become a super tight-wad nerd like you, although

“I think you're awesome, because I'm kind of that way.”

But she's a free spirit, I do want her to maintain a free spirit. But in order to qualify as wife material, she would have to be more emotionally mature. And so far, this lady does just enough to get by. Thank God, it's Friday. Oh God, it's Monday who can help me out?

Yeah.

You're going to go a few places she's not going to get to go unless she goes with you. And as long as she is engaged in this behavior and you are in this relationship, you are not going to be happy. Am I wrong? Don't think so.

Okay.

“Is there anything you can say or do that you think would actually change her behavior?”

I don't know, that's ultimately what I've been trying to figure out.

I mean, I've been trying to give her some tips, you know, like, you know, stuff. It was a trick question. She's, you can't change her. It's, here's the hard truth. She's either going to become emotionally mature while you're together or it's going to

take the breakup for her to get her act together. And right now it feels like the option is she's going to have to learn it the hard way. First gears and you said you had a daughter and she was dating a guy who spent everything he made, didn't work much and was out of control with his impulses.

You would look at your daughter and say run away quickly, wouldn't you? Yeah. Yeah.

And so I'm going to tell you that except I don't want to be quite that brutal.

But I am saying, don't marry this. Don't marry this. You're going to have a long life. And don't live together and don't move to Nevada together. So you guys need to sit down and, you know, like the teenagers used to say, define the relationship.

Okay. If this is going towards marriage, then we are going to have to both be grown-ups. And that's going to require a reasonable level of spending control on your part. Where you still enjoy life, not nerdy like me, but you still enjoy life. But you control your spending and a reasonable level of work ethic on your part where you actually

freaking work and work while you're at work and stuff like that. And, you know, work is not an excuse to eat, works are an excuse to work. And so, you know, we're going to walk through those kinds of things and I, the lady

you've described has a long path to get to where I need or to be before I would want

to marry her. And don't move to Nevada with somebody and check up with them that you're not going to marry. That's just weird sex. Well, no, that wasn't.

The plan was to eventually marry ESA could work. Exactly. Yeah. So, if you're going to get me, if you're going to move to Nevada together, get married. But don't get married until you make the move until you figure this out.

“I think you can move and then you continue the relationship long distance and just watch”

the behavior. And say, honey, this is how I'm going to handle my life. You're going to be miserable with me because this is how I do things. And I'm going to be miserable with you because this is how I do things. And maybe we're not compatible.

But let's talk about it and do you want to work on that part of your life? And if you do, let's talk about it and we can continue forward. And this is kind of turning a romance into a bit of a formula, but dude, it's a formula. I heard all man tell me one time he said, "If you marry a woman that loves to spend money, you better enjoy working."

That's a good line right there. Of course, the shoe could be on the other foot too, by the way, we can flip that over. If dude has an addiction to bass boats, you better enjoy both of you working because you're not going to be a stay at home mom because he's buying $90,000 bass boats to catch a bass that keeps out running him because that one has to be faster.

You know, I got an upgrade. I got an upgrade. That's a tough one. Marriage is hard, but making your life even harder, knowingly, marrying someone. Yeah.

But you want to marry someone who's going to make your life easier. So John, we're not just bearers of tidings of good news today, I'm sorry. But you know, I was sitting out with him, maybe you guys enter some couples counseling and begin to talk through these things, but the deal is, if this behavior pattern continues, neither one of you are going to enjoy it.

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Mary is in Pittsburgh. There she is. Hi guys. We've recently paid off all our debt and paid off two cars in five years. Wow.

80,000 dollars. And I really have 10,000 in our emergency fund and about 10,000 in my 401(k) and 1099, he has nothing. Wow.

“Can I just eat either of you have a pension coming in?”

No. Okay. No, we're renting. We've a low rent of 1900. And what do you all make?

What's your income? It's about 125. Okay. What do you all do? I work for a nursing home, a recent job, and he is an IFA.

Okay. All right. Well, the good news is you have no debt. Do you have no debt on your house as well? We're renting.

You're renting. Okay. Yeah. We've been renting for 10 years and I wanted to buy a house now that we are free, but I don't know.

I don't know money. No, you don't. So, wow. Okay, number one.

“I think the two of you need to look at each other and say we're going to be working”

a while. Yeah. We're not going to be like retiring next week, and we're going to be working a lot because we have some catching up to do, we're behind. And so, you know, I would think about getting a very, very modest house or condo that

I put on a 15 year or even a 10 year fixed rate, mortgage, very modest. And that's after you save up a good down payment.

Meanwhile, I would get start putting at least 15 percent of your income away for retirement.

That's $15,000 a year. That's not much. For 10 years, that's only $150,000, and that will only become about 350 or 400,000. By the 10 year mark, which makes you $76 years old, with a couple of $100,000 in a paid for house, if you pay the house off in 10 years, because you buy very modestly.

Okay. But that's 10 years of hard work, and, you know, you can end up with a couple of 100, $2,300, and a paid for house, and if you just do those two things. But again, the house has to be super modest, I mean, you're not proud of it, but it is yours. Right.

I love it. There's hope. Yeah. I'm so happy. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, I mean, but putting 15 percent of your income away can both of you agree to do that

and work 10 years? Oh, yeah. Definitely. Both hard workers. I picked up this hard time job on making like 40,000 here.

I worked like Kornaya hours a week, but I get the Social Security. And then August, Dave, I get to make as much as I want for Social Security not to take money out. So, I'm a fan of August. I'm going to hold time, Dave.

Thanks for listening to you, guys. Yeah. Yeah. Now, why don't you sit down with your smart vester pro and set up a couple of Roth IRAs and anything else you can come up with to set aside and let's get that going into some good

growth stock mutual funds and then start chunking money aside as fast as you can for a big down payment on a small house. Oh, right. Yeah. But let's, you know, lay it all out to where in 10 years you're with a paid for house

and 10 years of 15,000, you're going to be putting more than that you're going to be

“putting about 25,000, so 10 years of being 250,000, plus what would that grow to?”

Yeah. 10,000. 10 years of thing, vester 15% with no increase in income, they'll be at about 350k at 76. Yeah.

And I paid for house and Social Security coming in. You'll be okay. It's modest. Yeah, it'll be okay. It's not like lavish, but you'll survive and not be eaten by some beans forever.

But here's the trick, Mary.

All of that was wrong, it got you to this point.

“So you have got to spend the next 10 years doing exactly the right things or you're going”

to be in a real mess. So I mean, you've got to, you've got to really treat this like this is a serious health diagnosis. We've got to get it with it and you've got to lean into this because that's a, that's a tough 10 years from 76 or 66 to 76, outsh. Hey guys, if you're 19 years old or 22 years old, that lady calling was sent as a message

to you from God. 100 dollars a month from age 25 to age 65, 100 dollars is 1,000, 1,176,000 in your mutual fund. When you're age 25, did you hear that it's tougher to wait till 66 to start? 22 year old, are you hearing me?

19 year old, are you hearing me? 24 year old, that loves to go to happy hour, loves fine dining, and wants to lease a freaking Tesla. Are you hearing me? This is, she was sent, that call, that lady calling is sweet lady and she's precious.

Sweet lady calling was a message to you if you're in your 20s, Gen Z, she was sent to you today. Well, you know, I've actually run the numbers on this and it's fascinating to see

“what a dollar is worth at 20, invested versus 55 or 60, and the truth is this.”

If you're 20 years old and you invested a dollar, there's a 73 x return. That dollar turns into 73 dollars at 65, but when you invest that same dollar, 55, it's maybe worth 4 x instead of 70 x. So, 73 dollars you got $4. Exactly.

That's the actual component. You put 100,000 of those on it. Yeah. Okay. So, 100,000 is $7.3 million, right?

Yeah. Or 100,000 is $400,000. That's the difference. That's the wild math behind it. So if you're young, you're a mullie.

So here's the message. If you're young, you're thinking, well, I'll save later.

Let me enjoy my 20s, and I'll save later when I'm in my 40s, 50s, 60s later never comes

unfortunately, because life happens, life gets in the way when you're young, man, you got some income coming in, put it away. I got some. You can still enjoy life, but invest some. I graduated from college with a finance degree, and no one ever showed me what you

just outlined. Just compound growth. The power of compound interest, Edison called it there, the eighth wonder of the world. The power of compound interest. And the secret to that is the earlier you start, the more you have, and it's not, it

doesn't even require big sacrifice. It just requires intentionality, if you start already. It's really not about the income or the amount you put away, it's the intentionality. It's the intentionality. It's like, because you don't need to put as much away when you're 20.

“You know, honestly, the ability to delay pleasure is one of the big psychological insights”

to someone that is our indicators, or someone who is emotionally mature, emotionally but children do what feels good, adults devise a plan and follow it. And sometimes children are 56, and sometimes they're 16, sometimes adults are 56, and sometimes they're 16. I mean, we talked to some 19-year-olds on here that are way more mature than some of

the 52-year-olds. And way wealthier. Yeah, well on the way, because it's only going to take a dollar.

Good, and it's 100,000 bucks becomes 7.3 million.

It's pretty wild. And that's a one-time dollar or a monthly dollar. I mean, that's for every dollar you put in, you're going to get 73 out in retirement. That's the craziest part. So I'm telling you, if you're 20, and you're listening, you're 25, or even 30, you've

got time on your side. Compound Growth is going to do the heavy lifting, and as you get older, it can't lift as much because it needs time. Time is the magic ingredient in wealth building. Yeah.

The shorter the time frame, the more of the money that you put in is what's going to be there. Contributions. Yeah, your contribution is going to be equal to or more than the growth.

For your 20 or 30, 90 percent plus, just compound growth, of what you're going to end

up with is going to be growth that you did nothing for. You don't need to save up a million dollars to have a million----intentionality.

you want is stress when you're running the kids all over to summer activities or loading up the family for a well earned vacation.

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Hi, Stephanie. How are you? I'm good. How are you, guys? That other than we deserve.

What's up? Okay.

“So I am calling today because I guess I have a little bit of concern.”

Me and my husband have been married because I'm on three years, and we're expecting our second child this year. Our finances are completely separate, and we decided this once this baby's here and that would be staying home.

So I'm just kind of concerned, since our finances have always been so separate, obviously

we have things that we need to figure out. Boy, you are beating around the bush in a Nebraska kind of way. What the flip is your, what's really going on? So I am eight years younger than my husband, so he has quite a bit of working years over me, and when we met, I was fairly young.

I was on 18 when we first met. You were 18? Yes. You're not in your household now? 26.

Okay. Yes, so our financial situations have always been a lot different, obviously, with our age gap. I've been working a full-time job since I was 14 years old, so being in the working field is nothing new to me, although because of, I guess, my age and I don't want to use my age

as an excuse, because there's a lot of people who make a lot of money that are my age or younger. So I guess just with my experience and what I do have to offer on the table as far as job

life, I don't always get like high salary pain jobs.

I start usually low.

“All of that has to do with, it sounds like you think you have to earn your right to be”

a wife, like you're not equal if you don't make equal money. When you got married, the foul said richer for poorer, sickness and in health. Your vote doesn't scale within come, you should have had a vote day one, regardless of your income level. If you decided to do life with you, so what was the real reason you guys never combined?

Um, do you think that I'm financially irresponsible with my money? There it is. I don't. We just got to the real reason. It's a great within.

Yeah.

It's like, I was always someone, and I'll say this is something I'm trying to work on.

Okay. I'm always going that way. Okay, so the marriages that are successful, relationally, and that are successful, financially, do not operate like yours. Yeah.

That's why you're calling. Okay. Yeah. And so, you're not as daughter, even though he thinks because he makes more and he's older, that he's going to treat you like that, and so you're in time out.

Because you didn't behave. That is not a, that's not a healthy marriage relationship. That's bull crap. Okay. That's from a guy's been married 43 years.

That's bull crap. All right. So, um, you don't earn your vote in the house. As George said, based on the income that you produce, or based on your age, neither one.

And both votes are equal, the day you say I do.

Period. Period.

“And this is the way marriages function that we have studied, thousands and thousands of them”

that become millionaires, and that have high quality, high satisfaction marriages. It's not a, it's not a father-daughter relationship. No one is impunitive. We might argue, but we argue from a level playing field about what our goals are going to be, not what I want to do versus what you want to do.

But we argue about where we want to go. And you guys are a long, long way from that, and it brings me great fear. Because now that you're having another child at his request, um, now you're not going to be working at all, which means you don't even not only not have a vote, um, now you have to apply for welfare with him.

Yeah. This is the way this character acts. And um, he has had bad training somewhere.

Someone has told him this is the way to do it, and he's wrong.

I'm not being unclear, am I? No, you're being perfect with clear food. Good. Okay. And I do agree with you.

We're taking this call. So let me show you the future. He's going to give you an allowance, quote unquote, because he's going to treat you like his daughter. Then spit you about how you spend it.

And then yeah, and then he'll shrink it based on your behavior and how he feels about it. Yeah. While you're trying to take care of the family and the kids. Yeah.

So no, today this ends, uh, the worm turns today. As Shakespeare said, the worm turned. So, uh, that's it. Sover. And we're going to sit down and honey, we're going to be on an equal playing field.

We're both going to have all of our names on all the accounts. It is now our house, our income, our bed, our kids. Our future, or our is going to see a marriage counselor. Yeah. And we're going to get some marriage help.

And we probably need to do that anyway, because Adam minimum you guys need some new tools to own how to do marriage. Your, your tool belt is really empty. Yeah. And so I'm not being mean, but I am, the things that are going through your mind.

I don't want you ever coming at this discussion again from a subpar substandard. I'm not as good as position. Don't you ever use that language again in your house. Because you're not subpar, you're not substandard. You're younger.

You had a different career path. You looked at your wife. The old marriage vows in the old days are the book of Common Prayer, where we get richer for poor sickness and health, the rest of it used to say, unto thee, all my worldly goods

“I pledge, boy, we ought to add that one back into the marriage vows, shouldn't we?”

All of us, my job is now to love you so well that you are cared for and you have a vote. Hello, that's service, real leadership is service. That's real leadership. So we're, we're on your side. I'm not, I'm not angry with him, but the way he's acting is not going to prosper you.

It's not going to prosper your children. It's not going to prosper him. It's going to create a life of resentment, bitterness, and anger. And you guys are not going to enjoy the next 10 years. And your children are not going to grow up in a good house.

Because this is not the way people are supposed to interact, Keto.

We always say more is cotton taught.

And those kids are going to see the way dad treats mom. And mom gets an allowance if she's a good girl. And that's a sad way to live. And I think for too long, Laura has believed the lies that he is told her. That would be Stephanie.

Yeah. Oh, yes, our Stephanie. I'm sorry. And so part of this is Laura might, too, but this is definitely a thing as well.

“But you know, I think if she went to a counselor on her own, the counselor would say,”

I'm seeing a pattern of gaslighting and narcissism and all these sort of trendy words, but I think there's a control mechanism here. It's just an older guy that's used to being in control. And he's just still in control. That's all it is.

I don't know if it's narcissism. That might be overstating it. And it's not gaslighting. He didn't tell her she's crazy. And he just said she was insufficient that she was deficient.

And so he needs she needs to follow and do what he says. It's a control mechanism for sure. No question about that. But I don't know if we go so far as to throw trendy, overused, poorly defined words at it.

You know, tick-tock psychology. But yeah. Yeah, that's, that's the thing right there. Wow. It's one of our most controversial takes is that we believe couples should combine their

life, including their finances.

That's it.

You should have enjoyed checking it.

“It's kind of like we teach people to live on less than they make.”

Controversial. Controversial. Who want to tell me? Get out of that. Controversial.

Save money and become a millionaire. Controversial. By a house you can afford and don't buy one until you can. Oh, that's Controversial. You're out of touch.

You're out of touch, Dave. You're a boomer.

You bought your house with a box of strawberries.

It was bartered for. [MUSIC PLAYING] Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Laura's in Sacramento. Hey, Laura, what's up? Hi, I'm so happy to speak to two of my favorite people. I've been following you since 2013, and I am debt free, and I have a house in the Sacramento area, but I have spent moved in the last year to a very rural and remote property, and

I cash flowed it, and I lived for a year in a travel trailer because I bought it for cash, and I wanted to make sure if a fire came through, I could evacuate if I had enough time with my house. Since living here for a year, I've found that, you know, I would like something a little more permanent.

However, I also don't want to have to pay fire insurance because, according to my neighbors, it's between 10 and 12,000 dollars a year. Also, I get, so, let me tell you, I've got there, and say, so I'm thinking about building a mobile home, which I know, mobile homes are not a good investment. However, I still own my home in Sacramento as far as an investment.

I rented out to traveling nurses, so every 90 days is a turnover, and I make sure that it's in great condition.

something a little more permanent, but to save on insurance, basically, to not have to pay

the fire insurance, knowing I'm taking the risk if a fire comes through. Okay, so what would the mobile home cost? The mobile home is about $100,000. I say, when it's worth $10,000, when it's worth $10,000 lighter, when it goes down in value.

“How do we, how do we put this in the smart column, when it goes from $100 to $10,000?”

I'm wanting to say that instead of being an investment, it is a consumable good. It is something that I live in. Yeah, but if you put the same 100,000 in a house, it would have gone up in value. Yes, but I would feel much worse if a fire came through and burnt the town. And I would feel compelled to get that fire insurance.

Yeah, I would too. I would too, but they, the thing is, you're losing $90,000, that's a lot of feel good. Yeah, it's true. You're saving 10 grand to lose 10 grand every year in that mobile home. Ooh.

Yeah. So it's, I don't think it's as good a deal. I don't lose more than 10 the first year on the mobile home. Yeah. Yeah.

So beyond a cost, or I guess the financial component, is there anything else about mobile homes? I guess I shouldn't say that. No, that's it. That's the only thing.

It goes down in value. If they went up in value, I'd shut up. Then you'd be okay with it. All right. But I mean, it's a car.

It's a car you sleep in. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It goes down in value. Maybe.

It's a modified.

“Increased, depreciating, increased and cost, depreciating, consumable item, it's a bigger”

version of the retrieval trailer that you don't want to live in anymore. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of math. That's my only problem.

I mean, one of my good friends owns one of the largest companies in the world that does those things. And he's like, do you? Would you quit treasureging it? Well, yeah.

So they start going up in value. I quit treasureging it. But they're not going to go up in value. So what would I do that? No, I would not do that.

I would pay the fire insurance and I'd build a house. Okay.

Yes, that was more than my second question.

Yeah. And if I need to sell the house down in the value to do that, I would do that. It sounds like you do, no, too, because you don't have the money. Oh, I have, I have money. How much money?

What? So I currently have 130,000 in cash to build a mobile home. But before I build it, I mean, you're not building a mobile home. You're buying a mobile home. Other people build a factory and they send it to you.

It's on wheels. I remember. Exactly. But it's also putting it on the foundation here. You know, in the water, stew or all that.

“So that's what you're going to do with the house anyway, yeah.”

Exactly. Exactly. It's just the gut of what is the house and the value worth? It's worth $500,000 and I own it outright. I would sell that and build a house for cash.

Oh. Yeah. I just. Let me ask you this. If you own the house on this wonderful piece of property that you love, it was 100%

paid for it. It was worth $600,000. And you did not own a rental property with nurses in it. Would you borrow on your paid for home to go buy a rental property? Oh, no.

This is the same thing. Wouldn't borrow either way. It's the same thing. When you don't sell the rental property and end up borrowing to build the house, it's the same thing.

Yeah. If I'd build a house, I wouldn't need to save longer before building the house. I wouldn't sell. You know, I would say in a travel trailer longer until I have the money to build the house outright.

Or I would do it. I would cash. I would. You wouldn't. But I wouldn't have been in the travel trailer in the first place because I'm a snob.

So, yeah. I mean, for the weekend maybe, but after that, I'm done. You're camping. All nice. He'd have been there.

And, you know, if you did see me in there, I would be without Sharon. That'd be the other thing. You're so sure. Sharon's not having foot on that. She won't darken the door.

She's probably. Good luck with that theory, Bob. Yeah. She's more of a glampor. Especially these days, okay, so.

But yeah, owning a home is a long term decision. So you want to think long term. Ten years from now was this a good idea. Yeah. And that's the problem with people get, you know, because they're, you know, what you

almost always, and in the her case it is too, but almost always drives the mobile home

decision is I don't have the money. And so I'm going to cheap out. And you can cheap out. And for a hundred grand, you can buy something to sleep in. And they're fairly nice at a hundred grand.

I mean, it's a pretty nice one. Yeah. That's not a bad one. They make them up to 300 or 400 or whatever, but, I mean, a hundred grand, that's a pretty nice place.

But you're right. I mean, it's going to lose more than $10,000 the first year. And then people also get confused and rationalized with, oh, well, the property went up in value, you know, but it was going to go up in value whether it had a house on it or whether it had a mobile home on it.

Don't confuse that with a mobile home went down in value.

“It still went down in value, like 100% of things with cars, with wheels and or motors.”

If it has a motor, it has wheels, it's going to go down in value, period. Your little John Deer tractor that you paid $8,000 to mow your quarter acre lot with. And you financed with John Deer finance is going to go down in value. Your C do is going to go down in value. Your Mastercraft, I got two of them.

They're going to go down in value. The world's best ski boat. Thank you very much. It goes down in value. They're fabulous.

They go down in value. That collectible Corvette, I have in my basement, is going down in value. And it's a collectible. They are Annie and George, you're battery with wheels. You're a Tesla.

It's going down in value. I know that the hard way, I'm trying to sell it right now. Nobody wants it day. If you can't give that the nobody wants a battery. Nobody's in the market for like an iPhone 4, you know, they want the latest and greatest.

You're buying technology here. But it's true. It's why we say, "Pay can."

If you're going to buy depreciating asset, always pay can.

“And honestly, you feel like right now you're trying to get rid of that car and nobody's”

you can't. You're rid of it. That's one bad feeling. It would be triple bad if you had financed that. That was underwater on it.

And you're sitting there paying payments and you can't give it away. Now you've got lots of pissed off. Now you're just moderately aggravated. Yeah. Just a light stupid tax on something I enjoyed.

Yeah. And well, the other problem with it is, as you know, I'm going to make fun of you. So that's another problem. So I almost thought you might want to buy it, just to troll me with it. But I feel you're not going to put money into that.

Could we put it in the front yard and plant flowers?

That's what I was thinking.

I thought you were going to take it to the farm, take it out back. We could shoot it. And just destroy it. We could take the bear at 50 cow on shoot it. It's cheaper than some of these fancy hunting trips that you go on.

So I figure. Be fun. We could make some content. We could make a video out of it. Let's charge it to the company.

You know what, Dave? I like the way you're thinking. You want the things. We'll get the Instagram team out there. Hey, team, clip this out.

I want to be able to use this in a court of law when I, it's makes sense. It's not happening, but it's just, it was a good, it was a, you had a moment there. I was close. That's close. Oh, man.

Whether it's a Tesla or mobile home. It's going down in value. Elon Musk would be so pissed if we took that thing out to the farm and just blew the hell out of it. He's got a sense of humor. He might enjoy it.

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Frank is with us in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi, Frank. How are you? I'm doing pretty well, Dave. How are you doing?

How are you doing? I'm doing better than I deserve, what's up? Well, throughout the marriage with my wife in the last three and a half years, we have been using our one credit card for covering some of the four walls like groceries and transportation.

But we've been covering mortgage and utilities with our checking account. And we also use the credit card for health insurance, premium and medical expenses. Given some of the life and expense expenses. So the paid off every month, and it feels like we give ourselves some room before we pay off the credit card each month, but you know, then using our savings as quickly.

the credit card for some of the four walls, even if it's not the long term solution?

“Yeah, well, you, you've obviously not listed the show much, right?”

And we've listened a lot, but I guess one of the reasons that we're holding under the credit card is, you know, some of the, I mean, you understand that your question is completely perpendicular to everything we teach for the last 30 years, right? Yeah. Okay.

So I just want to, I mean, I'm trying to understand, if you understand what you're walking into, it's a warning. I'm, I'm asking. I mean, I'm being, I'm not trying, I'm not trying to beat you up, I'm just saying. So the answer to your question is, that's dumb or than credit.

Okay. Now, why is it dumb, all right? Several reasons. Number one is, there's not a singular piece of wealth-building research that indicates that what you're doing causes you to build wealth, not a single instance.

We studied 10,167 millionaires. The number of them that do that what you're doing is precisely zero. Such people don't do what you're doing, broke people do. Okay. So that's a bad sign.

Now, is it going to cause you to go bankrupt? Probably not.

But the problem is is that you actually have somehow use your decision-making framework

around money to convince yourself that this is a good idea and that this is somehow going to get you ahead more than simply investing. Money comes from, living on less than you make is where money comes from, not from trying to trick city bank. And so the number of millionaires that became millionaires by adding up all their airline

miles is precisely zero, none of them, not one, broke people chase airline miles. 78% of the airline miles are never redeemed. And yet people spend a lot of brain calories chasing this bull crap that these rip off huge banks are screwing America with and then convinced you that it's a good idea to dance to their tune.

I mean, now, are you losing money when you pay a health insurance bill that is a health insurance bill? Whether you pay it with cash, it's exact same amount. Can't possibly change? No, you're not losing money doing that.

Are you losing money when you buy, when you pay an electric bill that is going to be the

“same amount, whether you pay it with a car or with the pay with cash?”

You're not losing a dime. When you go and you're buying your groceries, you're spending more. The best merchandisers on the planet are grocery stores. When you walk through a grocery store, you are walking through a scientific lab that is very carefully designed, what is on what shelf at what level and what color more than any other

type of physical product on the planet. grocery stores are brilliant merchandisers that chances that you walk out of their spending more than you meant to regardless of what methodology you use are very high because they're very, very good at it. And it started back in the 1950s with a simple thing if they put the necessities at the

back of the store, the bread, the milk, and the eggs, because so you had to walk through the rest of the store and impulse on the candy. And rig leaves became multi-bazillionaires, the rig leave family have a fabulous mansion and phoenix fabulous by putting sticks of gum where at the checkout, the impulse proper. So these are just the beginnings of the sophistication that I'm talking about.

So a hundred percent chance you spend more on a grocery store than you meant to. And when you put it on a credit card, all the data, all the research says that you are

spending somewhere between 12 and 18 percent more than you would have spent if you spent

cash because cash activates the pain centers of the brain and credit cards don't. When you laid out a hundred dollar bill on the grocery store and Uncle Ben looks at you and says, what are you doing? What are you doing?

“When you laid out a credit card, city banks says, thank you, what's in your wallet?”

Samuel L. Jackson, my money is in your wallet, not my money, but his money is in your wallet to pay for them stinkin commercials that you did. That's what's in your wallet. We know what's in your wallet a lot of city banks money. Here's the fun math on this.

Let's say you put $60,000 of your take on pay on that credit card to cover these bills and you got 2 percent cash back. 1200 bucks is what you got, right? For the year, I'm exhausted for 1200 bucks.

For the year, so here's what I want to challenge frank with frank, if no one's has taken

me up on this challenge. For one year, switch to on a budget using debit card and cash and see if you don't spend

And my guess is you're going to find that you spent thousands less by using your own

“money, leaving your bank account now versus using someone else's money that you can pay”

back later, a hundred percent soon. Take me up on it. You step on over, step on over dollars to pick up nickels, step on over dollars to pick up pennies and so no frank, I would not do what you're doing, that's the reason. The biggest reason though is not the 1200 dollars.

The biggest reason is is while you were focusing on the 1200 dollars, you were missing the real way to build wealth because you had your eye on the wrong thing and you were thinking this method works. Okay, it's the same problem I got with the occurring. Were they coins?

Yeah. Yeah. Were you putting pennies around everything? There's fair change in there and people are screwing around with that with 14 cents while they should have been putting 350 bucks in a 401(k) and they use the same brain calories to

chase down the 14 cents that they would have done to set their 401(k) up and retire a multi-millionaire. So in their mind, they've checked the box that I am investing if I ask you to scratch the edge. You're not investing, you're a child with a piggy bank.

That's not investing.

“Children with piggy banks have $14 when they're four years old and that's what you're”

going to have in your fruit freaking acorns app. It's the same thing. There's nothing evil about it. They're not ripping people off but they took your eye off the ball and you're focusing your decision making paradigm and framework around the wrong things and so that's the

problem and a hundred percent of the time the city bank tells you to do something. It's something you should not do. It is in their best interest. It's not for you. It's for Samuel L. Jackson.

They got to pay him. He's expensive. Jennifer Gardner's not cheapy. A hundred percent chance that Patrick Mahomes call state farm a bunch of money. Who do you think paid for that?

Oh, you people that bought from state farm. Shee!

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We're glad you're here. Ashley is in Bend, Oregon. Hi, Ashley. How are you? Hi, I'm good.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, my husband and I have given, been given kind of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. We have a family friend that is fairly well-to-do.

Her and her husband owned about five homes throughout the state. One of which is far over in eastern Oregon and they are getting older and have offered

for us to basically a $0.00 monthly fist property from them to allow us to essentially build

my horse training business and kind of start a ranching dream that we've had. We, our hiccup is, we both have extremely good jobs where we're at.

should do it.

What are you guys making sure extremely good jobs?

So we both are in the construction industry. He makes about 110,000 a year. I make 75 and then I train horses on the side and make about 50,000 from that. Of course, you would lose all of that clientele because you're moving far away. Not necessarily, so my business is based on developing young horses and selling them,

so I don't necessarily have like a monthly clientele per se, it's more of--

“Also, where are you train horses that you sell doesn't matter?”

So you wouldn't lose the 50? Correct. I mean, the idea would be to substantially grow that. Don't understand, but I mean, you would not lose the 50, you know, we, we know at least you can do that.

Yes, sir.

If everything, well, unless something really bad goes wrong, okay.

And so how rural is this area? Why can your husband not work? So he can, and that would be the idea over there. The town is about 140 people, so it's very rural. I guess it just wouldn't be what he sits at now from what we researched probably about 70

or 80,000 is what he would make a year. That would be, sir. Out of 140 people. The county has some like management positions that are opening that I think he would be a very big benefit to them.

“He's a form in for a construction company now, so I think he probably has some skills”

that would definitely be of interest to see that I would say. I am 30, and he is 31. So how far away is this place from where you are now? About five hours. How many kids do you have?

None. Okay. All right, and so we would be moving from 110 on him down to 70, and we'd be moving your income that you're losing is, you're keeping the 50 on the horse, what's the income you're losing?

About 70, I have. So it's a $110,000 shift, initially, assuming you don't, that's if he gets a 70,000 job and you can retain your 50 on the horses without any, without any, I got you. And I have thought about grabbing something remote while I build the horse thing up, more and more maybe getting something part time to remote that kind of helps that gap

be smaller. Yeah, are like full time, yeah. Yeah, or full time. But these people will let you use this land and house for free, is what you're saying? Yeah, so they don't get over there very much, and it's obviously hard to maintain a property

that's also five hours away from them. They've just held on to it because they like visiting their twice a year, essentially. Do you own a home? Yes, there we do. We have, right out about $100,000 an equity in that, and I do currently run the horse business

out of that, like it's not something that I have to move to do that, but I run it out of my house now. This is just, I mean, it's $1,500 and, but it's not yours, it's not going to be yours. Correct, yes. That's my fear.

It's long term. You don't own this and it could shift hands. So, ten years from now, from now, what is winning, look like you don't own any real estate, he's still working a county job and you've grown a horse business. Yes.

“That's what winning looks like ten years from now.”

I think the idea would be potentially to grow the business and, I guess, buy a place of our own, the expenses there would be essentially next to nothing. Like, you know, I guess it would just be utilities and money for that. So, what's the mortgage owner house today, the map balance? $410.

Okay. And so, if you took a hundred and went and bought a $500,000 ranch in some area that sounded like this, you could keep about the same mortgage amount and be on a ranch. You do this deal, and do this deal, but own it. Yeah, and that's, I mean, like, that's kind of been our plan was to just stay where

we are. And, you know, obviously, work to make that dream come true. They have just offered this to us, and that's what I'm not, I'm just not sure it's a blessing. I was trying to figure out if it is.

It lowers your expenses, but it moves you away from ownership long term. Yeah, and you're, um, and also, and you're, you know, everything's dependent upon, how long will they, how long a lease will they give you for a dollar a year?

Um, she'd basically just hold us infinite.

Um, no, a little bulk wrap. She went as far as telling me that she will put it in her will, that the kids cannot sell

You understand that's weird.

It is very weird. Um, and like, like, so strange. I'm now spooked. Yeah, this is weird. If they wouldn't give it to their kids, yeah, as long as you guys are alive.

Essentially, our friend that lays his horses gets priority over our entire family with our 1,500 acres. Naaay.

“I think where she comes from is that as her kids are very well to do in their house.”

I know, but I, I, my kids are well today, but I'm not doing that for you. Okay. Dave's not giving me his. It's just weird. It's just because I can't live there for free.

I don't care George. Shut up. But I love horses. Dave. I know.

We're known for your horse love. I'm just glad I met someone who's in the business of selling horses, makes me feel better. Wow. Yeah.

Your job is to do what you tell people to do. Who knows? Made a career out. Okay. I don't know.

I got to admit the romance of it. I've kind of caught onto you because 1,500 acres, you know, are we all Yellowstone junkies? Is that our problem? Um, but yeah, uh, anyway, the, um, and it's, like, it's not, like, it's not there.

I don't like the business aspect of it. Okay.

“The only way I would tell you to do this is if you pledge to yourself at the end”

of five years that you have your own place or you leave period. Okay. I were not going to stay here longer than five years. Okay. Would they sell it to you?

Yeah. But, um, yeah. Yeah. But they can't afford it.

I mean, she put it at 2.8 million.

Perfect. Okay. So, number one, I would put a time limit on it. Um, and you can return to construction, and you can return to the life you have now fairly easily, plus or minus your current job.

Okay. Yeah. And I, I would say. If this thing all blows up and, and isn't fun and you hate living out the mill and nowhere after all, I took a call from a lady yesterday who said, we bought our,

we bought our dream home with a bunch of acreage and we hate it. What do we do now? And I'm like, well, you sell it. Go back to the city, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, and so, um, you know, the, uh, green acres, but the, um, yeah.

Wow. Anyway, the, the, the other thing that's bothering me, I'm just going to get it all out. Okay. Because you called and asked, and I really like talking to you. Thank you.

Because you really have a level head for somebody doing a whole thing on based on romance. And that, this is a very romantic story. It's a very cool, very cool story. I mean, the people that are infinitely generous that are infinitely wealthy and

their children don't even care. I mean, this is strange. And so, um, the suite, but it's weird. And so, um, yeah, I put a five year limit on the number one. Number two, I want you and your husband to do some prayerful soul searching.

Because this entire adventure is based on your desire to run a horse business. And nothing else, that's a hundred percent the driver of this. And is that really what you want to be the driver of your whole life? Because nothing else, we're doing everything else in this story to serve that one thing. And that's bothersome.

You know, when I became a dad, something flipped. Suddenly, it wasn't just about me and my wife anymore. It was what happens to my family if I'm not here tomorrow. And things like that just hit different when you become a parent. But I'll be honest, making a will feels heavy and complicated.

And it's not exactly what I want to be doing with my time off. But here's the deal. Making a parent means doing the hard stuff, especially stuff that protects your family.

“And that's why I used mama bear legal forms.”

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If you want to learn more about housing trends and see what the weekly mortgage rates

and we can help you buy or sell with confidence and even hook you up with a Ramsey trusted agent. Go to RamseySolutions.com/market and we'll give you some help. Emily's in Chicago. Hi, Emily.

What's up? Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

Well, I'm 65 years old and I've got four grown children.

My husband, my first husband passed away nine years ago and left me with two life insurance

money. I had a revocable living trust created with my four children as a beneficiary. My house is fully paid for and it's titled to the trust. So I got married four years ago to a month ago and he lived in this house with me and he of course helps with some living expenses and up to peer and everything in the house

of driving value. So my question is how much equity should I give my second husband in this house is fully paid for before getting married but I am spare to both him and him.

“Well, they aren't what you could as if you restructure the trust, right?”

Right. Which I am about to do actually having a point and you're in about three weeks. So restructure? I have that appointment. Why?

Well, I was already going to make some amendments now that my kids are no longer minors. So while I'm doing that, I thought I would amend the trust in some way so that if something happens to me. What is the size of your estate?

My house now is worth about 500,000. I do have, I don't have any debt. I do have some retirement investment and savings and accessible investment count.

I've always looked on the Firebase budget and I think grain total might be about one point

to actually. And what have you done with all of that in regards to your current husband? Nothing at all of that has all been in the trust that I had before.

“So have everything you have was put into this trust?”

Yeah, it's true like it were before I met him. Why? Why was it put in this trust? Um, when my first husband died, my financial advisor just said this is what he'd do and he just did all those things for me.

So you don't even know why? Not exactly. A full except for two. I guess if something were to happen to me, we'll take care of it. A will would take care of it.

You don't have to operate everything else. You definitely had to beneficiary on these accounts and you don't need to put it in the trust. Yeah. Okay.

You might, but I'm not sure you need it and I don't like that you don't even know why it's there. And yet this trust is running around, we're doing all the stuff that we're serving a trust that we don't know why it exists because I don't know why it exists. I'm not sure why you need one. You don't need one for a state tax planning.

You don't have an estate tax problem. I'm sure of that if you were trying to protect it from something that you could use a trust for that, but I don't know who we're protecting it from. I want to make sure that I want to make sure of all. Well, if you leave the house, if you're a widow lady and you have a house and you say

in your will, that a house goes to my four kids, 100% of the time it goes to your four kids. You don't need a trust to do that.

“Should I don't want some of that to my husband's and to my second one?”

That's a separate discussion. Now, the first thing I'm talking about is the structure of your finances. And the structure of your finances, I don't know why you're doing this. So I want you to get some estate planning advice and if you're going to keep the trust, I want you to have a real good reason why you have it and why you're keeping it.

I don't know why your million three is in a trust.

Mine's not. Okay. And I'm your age and I've got more. And it's not in a trust. Okay, I've got some things in a trust, but that's in a state planning mechanism because

my net worth is in excess of the $25 million exemption. So I've got some of those issues. But you don't have those issues. I'm not picking on you. I'm just saying, there's a reason for a trust and there's a reason.

Sometimes the only reason people have a trust is why I'm getting at is because some attorney sold them one, not because they needed one.

Now, having said that, let's go back to your question.

Let's say that you kept the trust and the trust stated that the first 500,000 value

of the property upon you being deceased, the current value, the first 500 goes to your children as promised and half of any increase goes to your children as promised. And the other half of any increase would go to your husband. That's what I was thinking. It was 340 when we got married four years ago.

“I don't know that you have to back grade it, but if you want to, you could.”

Okay. And then 50% of the increase, I'll call that one. Yeah. I split the increase between your kids and your husband. That's an equitable way to do it.

Okay. Yeah. You want to ask us to feel that I should just give you 50% total. No.

When he wasn't there for the first 50%, the first 50% came for he showed up.

What was he thinking he's that? Okay. Why? Where do you get that logic? I don't know.

Do you think she's that pretty? I think he has easy listening to a few of your settings where you are speaking to somebody in a different situation. Oh, me? A big problem.

That was on a house that he had a totally different situation in the kind of situation that's going to be disciplined to ours. No. I wouldn't have said that in your situation. I mean, there's not a situation like yours that I would have answered this anyway other

than this way.

“And I'm not even sure he needs half of that, but if you want to give him half of the”

increase from the time you got married on or from today on, that seems fair if he's putting money into the property. And he's going to pay at least half of the, I mean, you all have a combined account now and you're combined account is paying the property taxes and the insurance and the maintenance. Then yeah, he could participate that way.

That's okay. That's fair. But I don't know why he would be doing anything from before the marriage. That's not logical to me. But I really do want to go back to the other thing and say, investigate why you ended

up with a trust. All right. So, the reason I'm kind of going off on this, everybody, sidebar, there's a whole segment of people in the insurance world and in the legal world that sell people a $1,500 trust as if it's some kind of freaking magic wand for an estate planning tool that they

don't need and they're a pain in the butt to operate. So when you're every time you want to sell the house, every time you want to do an investment, anything you want to do, it's all in the name of the stupid trust. And so I've got a couple of things in a trust, but they're not used that way and they people sell it to avoid probate tax, which is local estate tax.

And it's usually not that much and it's manufactured, usually doesn't even cost as much as the trust. Because the trust is a couple of grand. Yeah, typically two to five grand, depending on who draws it up and what it's for now. If there's a combative adversarial family situation or some kind and you're trying to lock

down your intentions for the ownership for a particular thing in perpetuity, a trust is a way to pull that off, okay, and then in that case, but normally a will will suffice for 98 percent of situations and you don't just run over and get a trust. And what I've got here is a lady whose husband has passed away. She had a big insurance check and she went to a lawyer and what she end up with a trust.

So I'm suspicious that she didn't need one.

Well, I get a lot of these videos sent to me from our fans and it's always someone who has

“invested interest and you getting a trust, which is why I think, oh, you have a way you”

got to get a trust as soon as possible. And it's as if it's some magic trick to scroll down to getmytrust.com. Yeah. Exactly. And it's usually in a state attorney, trying to get some clicks and views for their

business. Hello. Hello. Here's the advantages of a trust. No one talks about the disadvantages.

Here's an interesting thing. Unless you retitle everything, including in a mutual fund state, your mutual fund account, your real estate, everything has to go retitle it, your car, whatever. It's not in the trust until you retitle it and people buy these trusts and then don't retitle the stuff, so the trust is sitting there with nothing in it.

[Music] James is in Baltimore.

Hey, you have a good one. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Um, so my wife and I just recently quit our high-paying jobs to have her stay home with the kids and for me to live out in early semi-retirement, I guess, just work in part

time. How gummorrowy? I don't know, I mean, out what's wrong with it. What did you do that was done? It sounds like you think you was dumb if you're asking us.

What's the regret here? I mean, I'm having some second thoughts, but I don't know how much of that is outside influence from my parents and my in-laws who are pretty risk-inverse and how much of this-- What were you making? What were you making?

Uh, in total, you were-- How are you making? Uh, I was making about 300, just shy. Do you do in what? Uh, I think cybersecurity.

Okay.

“And, and why were you $300,000 pissed off about it, so were you didn't want to do it anymore?”

Uh, it's just been working for 20 years in the industry, I'm 40 now, and, uh, just thought that it would be a good time to refocus my energy on the family rather than work. Okay. And so how much have you got in your nest egg? Yeah.

What are you living, also?

Um, so we sold our house, and, um, so we've got about a million, just over a million cash,

$785 in 401k, $550 in a brokerage, $176 in a page for rental, and maybe 40 grand in this line here, so about $2.5 in change. And you guys are renting now? Uh, yeah, we actually moved to Greece. Oh, wow.

So we're back home visiting right now, but we moved to Greece. What are you doing in Greece? Working remote, IT cybersecurity, but for myself, part time. Oh, okay. And how much do you make doing that?

Uh, just shy of 180, 180, it's looking like-- Well, that doesn't sound like you quit. On work in 20 hours. I know. Compared to what you were working, you quit.

But I mean, you know, this is not a guy who's sitting on your deaf 40 hour, your entire week. You're working a little bit. Make 180, you used to make 300s, 120 cut. What was your wife making before she quit?

Uh, right around 300. Okay. And what was she doing? Uh, marketing, digital marketing. And she took hers all the way to zero.

She has one client, but it is basically nothing at this point.

No money? Uh, not much. What's not much? I'm not sure. Working for her.

“And, uh, I don't remember, I'll stop my head.”

Um, okay. So let's just round up and say, you guys are making over $200,000 a year, you're living on your own. Yeah. Yeah.

That's different than I retire. That's not that you're, you're, you're, initial stories not true. I retired. I quit. I do nothing.

I play with babies and change diapers. And my wife and place with babies and change diapers. We do nothing. We quit everything. We're off the grid.

That's how you started. And that's just not the accurate facts.

We've got two and a half three million divers.

And you make $200,000 a year. You took a pick up to have an adventure in Greece and, and kind of scale back a little bit. Yeah.

“I guess that's why I'm, I'm thinking of it as summer retirement because I'm working”

eastern hours. And I'm able to work from Greece, some effectively, not working during the day or evenings. Work whenever you want. And however much you need to get the job done at 180. And you're, and you're keeping your skills sharp and probably one of the hottest fields in

the world right now. Cyber security, and as long as you keep your skills sharp, you can jump in and out of that world and at random and make money. Agreed. Yeah.

I guess, like, slogan my income and my, more importantly, my, you know, savings and assessments into various calculates. Okay. So, let me put it this way. It sounds to me like you guys were driving.

Have you ever driven a car at 150 miles an hour? In excess, yeah. Yeah. Me too. That's pretty fast.

You remember what happened when you slowed down to 50. You thought like you went from, you know, whatever to ride in a turtle. I mean, it was just like, because your brain had adjusted to that speed.

Right. That's what you did.

“You two were $600,000 a year high potential high capacity people.”

You were working 60, 80 hours a week.

You were straining your brain. You were straining your emotions. You were straining your physical body with the hours. And you went from a hundred and eighty or went from 600 miles an hour to 200 miles an hour. It feels like you stopped.

Great. Exactly. But you really didn't. Yeah. You're now just driving like most people.

No, I know. It's just feels like I worked 20 years to get where I'm at. And I was kind of on the threshold of getting to the next level. And what's the next level? That's VP, the title.

Yeah. Do you want that? I mean, be careful about climbing that ladder of success. You want to be sure which building it's leaning on. Yeah.

Yeah. You looked up and said the destination ain't worth it. The G. Ju's ain't worth the squeeze.

“I think I'm feeling pretty good and I can have a really good life.”

I suspect you'll go through about four or five years of what you're doing now. You're probably open up your own shop in some manner of some kind and get back to

making a half million dollars just because it's fairly easy for you.

But you'll want to control your own destiny instead of warning them around in the corporate world, which you really got sick of and I really don't blame you because they piss on their people. Yeah. Yeah.

100%. I like your good. What's your burn rate right now? I'm going to have an internet in a year. Right around 6,000.

That's your living really comfortably there. I'm on. So six grand a month. Yeah. You're making well an excess of that working 20 hours a week.

James, I want the narrative that you are shiftless, do nothing retired early and have no work ethic that is being shamed and delivered to you somewhere is actually not accurate of who you are. If you were that, I would tell you. I would say, you know, get off your butt, you loser, I would tell you, okay.

But you're really not.

“I mean, you're making substantial money because you've you've honed sharp tools, you”

have sharp tools in your belt and your craftsmen and you're able to apply those because of your years of experience in your connections and make an inordinate amount of money for a small amount of hours and for right now, that's an adventure and a chance to slow down and get your breath. You guys have been running so stinkin hard for so long.

You just went from 180 to 55, that's all you did, but you're not shiftless or lazy. And I don't think you're going to do this exactly this way for the rest of your life. I don't think you're done. I think this is a sabbatical. Yeah.

This adventure could go. Yeah. You want to go back to the States for years from now and you can do that and you'll go pick up a job if you so choose or do your own thing. You might move to Switzerland.

I don't know. The numbers are irrelevant. You guys are doing a great financially. It's not dumb financially, but if you're the parents you're going, I can't believe they went from 600 to 200 hours.

Your paper. Shut up. So you'd love it. But selling law quit is. So impulsive.

But, you know, they don't have a vote. If you guys are enjoying your life, you're making your bills. Yeah, it's funny. I told the story of a thousand times, but I'm going to tell one more time. So my grandfather worked for alcohol, lumen, and for 38 years every single week.

And when he retired, he was head cost accountant. He's a wonderful man. One of my favorite people on the planet. But steady, stable, secure. Risk a verse.

Yeah. So my grandmother's a second grade school teacher. So I printed the first book Financial Peace, so I saw another trunk of my car, sold it to a publisher. I got an email, and it said, congratulations, you're sold your millionth copy.

Wow. And the phone rang, and it was my grandmother, and she said, I was worried about you. When are you going to get a real job? Oh, man, that's funny. And she's sweet.

I mean, she really was. It's so sweet. She was so worried about me. That's passive aggressive. Grandma, I'll be here.

No, no. I mean, the point was, it's just not her world. It's not her paradigm. She didn't understand.

I have the viewpoint to go a million copies.

I think we're OK. I actually do have a job on, and we're OK. I'm still doing it today. Yeah. All these 30 years later.

Well, she'd probably think we're about work, because just unemployment with a different title. What is? [LAUGHTER] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio.

Sammy is in Chicago. Hi, Sammy. How are you?

How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I mean, my wife's gotten your program about seven months ago.

We've shut down all of our credit cards. We have about $50,000 worth of debt left. How much have you made up for seven months? Right under about six thousand. Thousand a month?

OK. Yep. What's your household income? One, six, two. So far, you suck at this.

You're making progress, but a thousand a month's kind of weak. Our kids are going to private school, which is a big expense. But my question was, is it a bad idea to take out a he-lock to consolidate it? I'm sitting on about $250,000 worth of equity in my house, and kind of just get it on one place, and push it up to $1200 a month to kind of clear that out in four or five years.

Yeah, it's a bad idea.

“Because you should turn up the heat on your budget, turn down the heat on your lifestyle.”

You've begun the process, and you've taken the first level of sacrificing, which is a great progress. I picked on you pretty hard, but I mean, you could up your credit cards, and you paid off $6,000, and that's more than you've done in 10 years. So you've come along.

I mean, you're going in the right direction, finally, congratulations on that. That's good. But what I want you to do instead is pay $3,4,000 a month and just get rid of this in a year. But that means you're going to cut a whole bunch of stuff out of your life for a year.

And I don't know exactly what it is, and it's not the kids' private schools, because that's not the real problem.

The problem is you also spend a lot of money eating out, and you go on vacation whenever

the flip you want. Ding ding ding. Are you that? Yep. Yeah.

The vacation, yes. But yeah. Okay. So you add all of that up, and you take the budget, and you and your wife go, kids and private schools are non-negotiable.

But all this other crap, we can cut it out for one year and hold our breath and be done with this. Or we can keep this stupid thing around as a heat lock like it's a pet. No, I want to kill it. And here's what happened.

Here's what happened. Here's a cool thing. In the process of doing that, Sammy, you and your wife will permanently change how you handle money.

You won't have to stay permanently sacrificed at that, but you will never be in

attentive again. You will pay attention for the rest of your life, because of this one time, because of the strain it does to your brain when you go on this much sacrifice to work. Yeah, using the house as a piggy bank and moving the unsecured debt to a secure debt, it's not changing any of the behavior that got you guys here.

“And that's why we're telling you don't do this.”

It's just moving the debt around, and you guys are the solution. This great income you have. We just got to put it to work. I don't want you to be 10 years from now, and only still finding a thousand dollars. Because you make too much money to be as broke as you are.

I want you to be rich, and I want you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. And so that involves turning up the heat for a short period of time, cleansing the whole thing, cleaning the whole thing off, and then going from there. Pause all investing, too.

And if you guys have any investing, you can barely stop your 401(k)s, make sure you're not getting a tax return, you and your wife are together, we're not going to see the inside of a restaurant until we get this done, we're not going to go on vacation until we get this done. We're going to sell so much stuff that's junk around this house, that the kids think they're

next. We're going to bust it. And when you end, we're going to have a tight budget, and we're going to have a detailed budget, and the two of us are going to agree on that budget, and we're going to make

“a game out of this for the whole family.”

And we're going to clean up this mess and cut up these credit cards, which you already did way to go. And we're going to finish this change out, because personal finance is 80% behavior, and you have to modify behaviors to win. It's only 20% head knowledge.

The head knowledge, the intellect needed to the intellectual knowledge base needed to become a millionaire you learn by the sixth grade. It's just not that hard. The hard thing is the guy in my mirror, the guy in my mirror, if I can get that guy to behave, he could be skinny and rich, but he's got issues, you know, and I don't

that's a problem. It's getting personal day. Oh, I'm sorry. I just, my name is Dave, and I like donuts. Yeah.

It's just my personal AA meeting. Yeah, that's it, man. That's how it works. I mean, we all face this stuff as the point, and the more I can get you to lean into it and burn with it a little bit, the more permanent the change becomes in your household.

whether we save a few interest rate points on a heloc.

So good question. Thank you for calling in with it. Jonathan is in Miami. Jonathan, what's up in your world? Hey, Dave, thanks for having me, man.

How are you? Sure. Better than I deserve. How are you?

“Well, I've been following you, and I have a question.”

This is the mortgage related, and let me give you a little background. I'm 44 years old at four beautiful kids. I am the sole owner in my home, right, I'm the head of household. My wife is a stay home wife. We have no debt.

I bring in a box a little 200,000 year. Let it go. And I have extremely poor financial discipline when it comes to investing or any of that stuff.

I mean, no one has ever taught me, and I've always been fearful of losing my money.

And therefore, I do the dumbest thing possible, which I keep it all in checking. How much is it checking? Here's about 1.4 million correct. Wow, that way, don't you, don't you me out. Yep, that's just fabulous.

You've got a million dollars in checking. I love it. Oh, you're going to be so easy to help. Well, I'll tell you what my problem is. Okay, because I don't have that financial discipline and fear of losing money, I like having

it under my pillow per se. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know where it is, you can get it whenever you want to get it. I've been stacking that, the only debt I have is this house mortgage. So I purchased a home in 2020.

I have about $400,000 outstanding on it. And I am fighting myself whether I should pay it off in full or whether I should, I don't know, do something else, perhaps. Everyone is telling me that I've spoken to invested, invested, invested, invested. I have no idea what I'm doing.

That's fair. That's fair. And you're wise not to invest it until you get comfortable.

“You should not do it because someone else said do it or because Dave said do it.”

But let's just start with a basics here, okay, 1.4 and checking, right? How long has that been there? I've been saving for nine years now, so let me just play a game.

Let's pretend a million dollars has been there for the last four years, okay?

Okay. Just for the fun of it. Now, I want you to go learn about investing and get comfortable with it. And I'm going to help you do that because you've done the right thing. Don't put money into something you don't understand.

So you're so far you've done the right thing. But by not understanding investing, had you invested in a basic mutual fund that only returned exactly what the market has returned, you missed out on three of the best years ever. Your money would have doubled in the last three years. Wow, that's cost you a million dollars, that lack of knowledge.

So I want you to go get the knowledge, okay? And I want you to go to a smart vester pro at Ramsey Solutions and go sit down with them and begin the process of learning and tell them you have a million dollars to invest because yesterday you paid off your house with 400,000 out of checking. And by the way, you don't need discipline to pay off your house.

It actually adds to discipline because it's very hard to get the money out of your house. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warsaw. Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events.

And all the extra gas and grocery runs money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan.

“And that's what you'll get with the every dollar budget app.”

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Go to Y-Refi.com/Randy. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com/Randy might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Cameron in Wisconsin. What does Ramsay Solutions recommend regarding Robo Investment Accounts?

automate the process and that seems like a simple way for people to invest when they

don't know too much about investments or don't have time to manage their account. Is this something you'd recommend? Well, I like to know what I'm investing in and so I don't want to just delegate it to the robots and not fully understand what's going on behind the scenes. The idea is pretty simple.

Some people are not ready to work with an advisor, they don't have a lot of money, so they go to the robot investment route, there's a low fee and they feel good about their decisions. You could do worse than that, but it's still not my favorite option when it comes to investing simply because you're not fully involved.

George, one of the most requested things we've gotten over the years is for us to actually list the mutual funds that we personally own. Just tell me what you invest in Dave. What is the mutual fund that you buy or have even company, mutual fund companies have come to us and said would you endorse our mutual funds?

And we made the philosophical decision many, many years ago to do none of that. So you guys don't know what mutual funds I have, nor will you because it's not the point

“of what I have, the point is what you have and the point is you need to learn enough about”

the mutual fund for you to buy you an investment. You should not put money in something because Dave Ramsey did. But money is something because you looked at it, you understand it and you have taught sat with a good smart investor pro with a heart of a teacher and you've learned about the historical.

This thing's 62 years old, it's got this kind of track record, this kind of risk. It doesn't feel bad to me, I like it and you know, here's the fees on it and I'm okay with that and based on that, I'm going to choose that fund and I'm going to invest. That's how you should invest. A robo shouldn't pick it.

This is not an automated car wash, it's your investments. And you know, you shouldn't pick it based on the person sitting next to you in your cubicle. What you're putting your 401(k) that's a bad way to select your 401(k) options. Just looking over a gallery shop there. God 50% of the people in 401(k) is that's how they picked them.

Or their company had an automated process that automatically puts them in, the dumbest, dumb down, risk-averse, possible thing which is really not a good portfolio of mutual funds and they took whatever the company dumped them in automatically and didn't even look at it. So this is not how you make money. Not a good investing strategy.

It's like I'm going to buy a house and never look at it first.

I have no idea about the neighborhood who knew that cars up on blocks and shot down the street with oozees. I had no idea but I just bought a house there, you know why because I heard it was good on TikTok. You know what I mean?

No! No, you don't do that. You go look at the house, you look at the neighborhood, you understand, you ask questions about the schools, you say what's the hospitals like in the area, what's the traffic pattern around your life, you get knowledge about the product before you buy it.

“And that's what you do with a mutual fund, that's what you do with an investment.”

Do not buy something because a Robo said too. And likely it's going to put you in something too risk-averse, like target-ate funds are a bunch of bond funds. Exactly. And then, you don't want to do that.

20 years later, you go, why am I not getting these returns, Dave, talked about, well, it's you're not investing the way we teach. The number of times I pull up in a 401(k) with a big company, they've got auto processes or they've got buckets of funds, okay. Here's five funds in the high-risk bucket.

Well, guess who does that, no one based on the bucket name, you're not in Vegas. But then I pull up the actual funds, they're not high-risk, they're just gross, stock-meat hole funds. They're high-risk, they're going to stupid bond fund, which isn't bucket number one. Well, put it in saving them.

And your grandmother's boring bucket. And then you've got the medium bucket, and the Goldilocks bucket, just right, and so no one does that.

And basically, most people should probably be in the funds that are in that high-risk bucket,

but because the way it's named, they're just picking a bucket, they don't want to put any effort into learning about it. Yeah. But to school, this is millions of dollars of difference, whether you put it in the right fund or not.

Absolutely. Don't use a robo. I do these man on the street, you know, interviews from my YouTube channel. We did one yesterday, and I asked people how much they have an retirement, and I asked them, do you know what you're invested in?

Only one person out of 10 or 12 could tell me what they're invested in, and it's because they were a Ramsey fan, herner, husband, and their 30s, $900,000 invested in mutual funds just like we teach. Wow, and they got to be on George's YouTube channel. Say I'm a millionaire.

Pretty cool.

“And all the others just said, I don't know, I have a guy who does it, I think.”

I've got a guy. I said it, and my people in HR help me. Kind of. Good Lord. Go on.

You're making your funds.

I clicked some funds.

That's the most of people's knowledge about their investments.

And, you know, let me just tell you, winning at anything is a series of intentional acts.

“You have to be intentional about your investing, you have to be intentional about your”

marriage, intentional about raising kids, intentional about taking care of your body, intentional about your spiritual walk. You know, no one wins the Super Bowl, and then the reporter runs out on the field and goes, how did you do that? And I go, I don't know.

I just get off the bus and it's just happened. What happened? I don't know. No one says that. They've been studying and playing football since they're a freaking six years old.

They don't do anything else except throw a ball, throw a ball. It hit by throwing a ball, hits somebody, throws a ball. That's all they've done. They're whole freaking life. And then they don't know how to do anything else in life because they've so focused on

that. And that's how they get to the Super Bowl. It's an intentional act, it's an intentional act. And so, you know, for God's sake, don't have a robo pick it for you. I don't want an app, so I don't have to think.

There's nothing. There's an app. No, there's not an app that keeps you from having to think.

“Not if you want to be somebody and have something.”

You gotta do the stuff, you gotta do the stuff, you gotta do the stuff. No robo, no George, no Dave, no Rachel. We're not even gonna tell you what invested, what Kelly is invested. And we're not even gonna tell you her mutual funds. It's not even no.

So I can't tell you. So there you go. And although that might get some real serious, but anyway, can you imagine Dave Ramsey's producer put that in there? Girls may as well put that in there.

That would be that'd be the thing. But the good news is they're not like super secret funds that only Dave has access to. No, they're ridiculously boring.

And you probably have changed it almost never in that period of time.

You've been investing. Yeah, I don't remember changing. I fund may have moved and switched around. And I don't think I even changed it.

“Yeah, you probably don't look at it much now that you know what you're invested in.”

Pull it up enough to know what's going on with it, because I'm intentional, but I'm not like, "Oh, I'm panicking Trump bombed I ran." I'm like, "No, I went down, price is went down, good, I can buy more." Don't say it. It's on sale today.

They're all that. Yeah, that's the whole thing. So be intentional. You know, I used to get a lot of hate mail for this site and I haven't done it in a while, so I need to get, I hadn't had a hate mail in a month.

I was going to say, we haven't got some, you want some more hate mail here we go. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Well now you've done it, Dave. And you know what? You know where that saying comes from?

The Bible. It's the truth. Oh. That's where it comes from. That there's a proverb in there somewhere.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And you know why? It's not because rich people are evil. It's not because they're smarter. It's not because they're prettier.

It's not because they stole money. It's not because they did something wrong. They had a series of habits and principles that they operate their life on, and they continue to do that. And you know what poor people do?

They have a series of habits and patterns that they operate their life on, and that will make you poor. And keep you there. You don't take the cycle. Now there is an exception to that, to be fair, to just to limit the hate mail just a

little bit. Sometimes people are poor because they've been oppressed, and they've been in a situation politically or racially or something else where they've been oppressed. That's not their fault. But most of the time in America when someone's poor, it's because of stupid but choices.

I've been broke, but I've never been poor, poor as a state of mind.

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up in that crack me up. So her and Winston toasting a glass of wine, couples who enjoy good food and wine have a much higher success rate than couples who don't according to a study I made up. She's got your DNA. That sounds like something you would say.

For the family, so 88% of the statistics are made up on the spot, I'm just saying. I didn't clap at research from Rachel Cruz right there. According to a study I made up. That's great. That's so Ramsey.

Cali is into Troy. Hey, Cali. What's going on? Hi.

My husband and I just had our second child, and we've been debating for the past few months,

whether or not my husband should quit his job and be a state-owned dad, and part-time general self-employees with our woodworking business, but one of your advice. He's part-time self-employed at his woodworking business.

“No, that's what you would do in addition to being the sale of them, too.”

Oh, I see. I see. So what, what does he make today? He makes 162. What are you making?

I make 187, and then about 20 times back last year. OK. I take it, he hates his job and you don't. Yeah, my job is really flexible, fully remote, and I'm really passionate about it. And he does not do his job, and he has to drive into work, and it's about an hour commute.

So it just puts a lot of the parenting strain on me, in addition to my job, and we just

think it the lifestyle will be much better if I'm going to talk about that. I'm talking about he hates his job. Yes, he also hates his job. So he's running from something, not to something. I think it goes.

Yeah. If he loved his job, he wouldn't even have made the call. You would have hired a governor, sir, and Danny, to help you while you're staying while you're working from home as a remote.

“And I think it's like, with our first, I stayed at home with our first.”

So it's part of our values as well, that we don't want to, we don't want to pay someone else to pay our kids. Well, you're there. You're going to be in the house, because you're remote. Yes.

Yeah. It's not, you're not sending them off to boarding school. You know, somebody put them down for a nap while you finish up a Zoom call. Yeah. That's a good point.

Yeah. And that's one of the options we're considering as hiring a man. Yeah. I don't think your husband signed up for this, because he has sat around for the last 10 years wishing he was a full-time dad, sitting at home changing diapers.

I think your husband signed up for this, because he's trying to get away from his job, because it's what you want him to do. Interesting. You're all the same in the phone. Ah.

The place. Hey. Hey. You hate your job. And you're wanting to come home as my supposition to get away from your job.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate my job. But what I do is actually the best job I've ever had, which makes it difficult to leave. OK. It is stressful, but still the best job I've had in the field I work in. OK.

Well, I do relate to my wife's comment that, you know, we're struggling with the idea of would we be paying from an alterase our children? Yeah. I don't suggest that. I get the value.

OK. My wife was a full-time mom raised our kids, OK. Both of my daughters do have careers, but both of them have, you know, and both of them have some help, but they're not, they send their kids off to boarding school and they're not in a daycare and they're not in any of that.

It's just a, you know, a part-time nanny situation to supplement the time that they need to be at home because they're very flexible like your wife's situation. So anyway, I can relate to what you, you guys are after here.

And yeah, I, I'm always the one, I want to push back and always make you think, make

sure you're thinking about what your real motive is under the motive because you're walking away from a couple hundred thousand dollars.

“So you need to have a really, really, really, really good reason for doing this.”

And I don't run into a lot of people that the guy wants to come home and if you want to, I'm not mad about it. It's OK. I'm not saying you're doing something morally wrong, but you're, you're, you're, you're dropped, you're leaving a couple hundred thousand dollars or eight hundred, whatever, you

From three, seventy to two, seven, that's what would happen.

“And so you need to have really thought that out because the part-time woodworking thing”

is kind of a joke as far as that, that's a throw away that's like acting like you're doing something else. And by the way, who's going to watch the kid while you're doing that? So, you know, it still leaves a gap potentially. But anyway, so I, this feels like, it feels in the air like something else is driving

this other than you just woke up, sir, and said, I really don't want to work anymore. I want to be with the babies all day long. I don't think that's what happened. I, you know, I don't, I don't hear that here. But y'all do whatever you want to do.

I'm not mad at you about it. And it's not, I think it's a value, like you said earlier, you guys both said it, and I

agree with what you said, sir, it's a values-based decision.

Oh, not the Sarah. I'm sorry. Callie. And so, but it's a values-based decision.

“And if, if you guys choose to do that, then you need to think through exactly what that”

means from an identity perspective, from a, what the trade-offs are, and really go deep on the, a spiritual and emotional relational discussion on what's really driving this. And, um, it, it, it, I don't know, I just, I got to check on it, but I, I could be wrong. I like to try the idea of a trial run with a nanny. See how that goes.

And if it just pains you to not be there with the kids, then you know. Yeah. Well, and again, a nanny's not a full-time gig here.

It's a supplementing mom who's already in the house.

And, um, you know, if she was at work, that's, you know, in a physical location away from the house, that'd be a completely different discussion, then. But, um, because a nanny is then, quote, someone raising your kids, unquote, although that's overstated, because it's not really what happens. Your children, when they're in school all day long, someone else is not raising your children.

You're still raising your children. Yeah, if this is the case, when they get old enough that they go to school and continue down that path. Exactly. That whole thing.

Um, but, you know, again, my children went to school and someone else did not raise my children. There's not a boarding school. It was a public eye school, public elementary school, and someone else did not raise my children.

So, that's not an, that's not an accurate statement when you have other people involved in some of the hours of their life. They also went to Sunday school on Sunday morning, but someone else didn't raise my children. Spirituality.

I did. They, you know, they're, um, spiritual walk is largely my fault. Hello. You know, one way or the other. Yeah.

The parents will still have the most influence. That's interesting. Yeah. That's interesting. It's a good discussion.

I want you to go deep with the discussion and double triple check, both of your motives. And, uh, don't overstate things and how purbally to justify it, um, and someone else raising my children when an Annie's helping part time is overstating it, and I'm going to have a part time woodworking thing, but I'm going to be at home full time with a kid that, you know, you're not.

I was something, you know, I don't know how part time, but I mean, one hour a day. It's not, you know, um, and, you know, with a monitor, I'm, I don't know, it's probably not going to add meaningful income on top of the zero seven. Exactly. So, yeah.

And then, you know, what is it, um, and then what's five years look like and what's two years look like and what's one year look like and, um, and is there an exit possibility

“from this situation? If we get into it and we don't like it, what are we going to do?”

How could we return to something that looked more like what we had before? I don't know, all of those things are things I want to talk through clearly, um, but again, I, I'm really not mad at you about it, saying it's a horrible idea. I just, it, it, there's just something bothering me and it's not just that I'm a child of the sixties.

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Yeah, for real.

Sarah's in Louisville, Kentucky.

Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm well. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? So, my fiance and I are getting married. We've already set a date and we are getting civil married. I am the youngest of my parents, children. I'm the only girl and there are no female cousins.

And my fiance is the youngest boy. We have decided not to do a traditional wedding and we're not even going to get married by a pastor. We're actually getting married by a judge.

“And our family, I think my family already knew how I felt about spending that type of”

money on a date, but we're getting some pressure as if we are being, I don't know, dismisses because we don't want to spend that money. Our plan and that we've already started on. Okay, I mean, the money that we're going to spend is your money, not theirs. Am I right?

Correct. Okay. So, it's not like his mom and dad have offered to give you $50,000 for a wedding. No. No.

My parents are giving us some money, but also are going to, they're going to give us about $40,000. They want to spend, they want to go mean a, you know, because they're very traditional, a wedding celebration party. And I said, okay, but the cap, I said, I really don't want, I would rather that money

go to her to house that they did say, well, we will still see money towards the house. Okay. So, you're having a wedding celebration party to, to, to, to, for so family and friends can enjoy this celebration with you and your parents are paying for it, it's costing you nothing.

Yes. Yes. And you're getting married by a judge and that's the plan and his mom doesn't like it. Well, I won't say that's it, like it, I would say the family and that's really not his mom is being respectful.

“You know, I think the dad and the mom would just expect it as to be more traditional”

to be married by a pastor who actually have a wedding. I'm not doing, I did not do a bachelor at party, a bridal party or an engagement party because-- But his dad doesn't care about any of that. You added that.

I doubt it. His dad doesn't care if you had a bachelor at party. I promise. His dad doesn't care. Okay.

But he is kind of worried about you not having a traditional wedding with a pastor because he's a person of faith. Yes. And I guess for me, I just, I don't, we are buying a house, are we are-- I know, but having a pastor, Mary, you doesn't cost him more than having a judge, Mary,

you. True. Okay. So, what is he, what is he?

I'm trying to figure out who's pressureing you other than in your head. Well, their hang-up is that we are not, and really, they are my parents are handling a lot of the party. And there's really no involvement from that side of the family. And because I'm definitely, like, I don't want to--

Okay. But that's not a, that's how the money is done. That's a relational and communications thing. The question I have definitely is, how do I communicate what? Like, is there a better way to communicate?

We just think that's a way of money. I don't want to go into it, you know? No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't.

I would just say, here's what we want to do in why.

And is there an issue you have with that? And let them tell you, instead of you trying to figure out what it is. Because you don't know. You haven't even been able to tell me.

“I think, well, I know that the issue is basically that that's what we are doing this”

on our own and there has been no type of-- Well, you're certainly the groom's family doesn't right-check, except for the rehearsal dinner, traditionally. Yes. Yes.

But we're not doing a rehearsal. I know. But that's so, and I honestly doubt that the whole family's upset that they're not having a pay for a rehearsal dinner or a plan it. It's not like that's super fun for most people.

So we're kind of involved in it and they want it. I can, I guess I really need to dig into that more. Yeah.

I think here's the thing.

I don't. Here's the thing. I want you to do what you want to do. You're the bride and unless someone is financing their personal wishes, they don't get a vote.

And in the case of your parents, your parents desire a party and they're going to pay for the party and still give you the gift they promised above that. And so your parents have handled that appropriately, therefore they get a vote. And you let them have that vote and agree to that party. You see what I'm saying?

That's a good--that was a process that was perfectly handled. I would consider the same thing on the actual service itself and say, you know, it means a lot to his dad because he's a person of faith to have this done by pastor and a church. And it's going to cost exactly the same money and it doesn't offend me. If it doesn't offend you, then you don't have to do it.

But if it doesn't offend you and you're neutral on that, then why not do it there instead of the judge? It doesn't--because you're trying to make this out like it's an economic thing and it's not an economic thing. Nothing you've described to me is anybody getting her economically.

No one's wasting any money here except your parents according to your process. And your parents are doing it gleefully as I would, by the way, I like a big party at a wedding.

I mean, the first time we saw Jesus do miracles was at a party at a wedding.

So I'm in for parties at a wedding. The wine was flowing. That's it. But I mean, I'm like they--all the old people in this story, I'm traditional in your story.

So, but your mom and dad have handled this perfectly and somehow there's some kind of a burr in the saddle on the other side and I would just sit down and say, hey, we want to just do something very simple and plain and inexpensive and what can we do that would

“be that would make you guys happy and then see if you want to do what they're talking”

about. And it could be something as simple as, you know, you run down to the local church and the family that the pastor's gone to that church, everybody's gone to that church. That pastor knows everybody baptized your fiance and, you know, for 50 bucks, he'll do the wedding instead of the 50 bucks you give the church.

And if that's all it is and it doesn't bother you, Sarah, then it's revenue neutral, meaning it's the same cost than why not do it. That's what I like. I like that plan and then everybody's a little bit happy. I couldn't find the problem.

Yeah, I think it is a lot like you mentioned. It's more feelings because we just don't have the information. I read into what I think people are thinking way too often when I don't ask them without community. What they're really thinking.

And so I should have done that. I do it with a caller. There's just so much of, there's so much emotion around a wedding and there's different families and different values and backgrounds. And I think most people just don't have the conversation early on to say, "Hey, here's

our plan. We all on the same page." Yeah, I wrote all the checks and I'm still happy that none of my kids are loped. You don't have that much. I have a blast.

It wasn't money wasted. And I can't wait to be at my grandkids' weddings. And I'm right those checks. Oh, there. Shut up.

Clip that up too. I want to send that to the grandkids. Let them know. Oh, they already know. Try to keep the old man alive long enough.

I put CS Hour, the Ramsey Show in the book, so we'll be back with you before you know it.

“And the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace.”

And that's to walk daily. With the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.