#320 Danny Goler - Apple Vision Pro May Have Captured Something We CAN'T Explain

Danny Guller.

Welcome to the show, man.

Sean, thank you so much for having me. My pleasure. So had Chase Hughes on any brought up this laser DMT kind of experiment. I don't even know what we call it, but really caught my attention. Love Chase Hughes too, by the way.

He's a good guy. He's a good friend, yeah. And then we had this reel that went viral about the DMT. He lays a thing in our mutual friend, Rich. I leave his last name out of it, but he texted me right away.

He's like, oh shit, you know Danny and I was like, no, I don't. He's like, you got to meet him, dinner, dinner, dinner, and so do don't have my stoked you're here. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate that.

My pleasure. My pleasure. But yeah, let me start you off with an introduction because I know once we get

“into this thing, it's just going to go, but this is water, right?”

This is what that's water. Danny Guller, you're an independent researcher in the founder of Code of Reality, an interdisciplinarian initiative exploring what you call cognitive physics. The intersection where mind and matter meet. Through Code of Reality, you bring together scientists, philosophers, technologists, and indigenous

wisdom keepers to investigate the relationship between consciousness and the nature of reality. Currently, your goal is to advance a more holistic science of consciousness. One that can exist alongside and complement mainstream physics. It's going to be an awesome interview.

So before we get started, a couple things real quick. Everybody gets it. Yeah, let's go. Thank you so much. Vigilance Elite, yummy bears.

There's no DMT in those, unfortunately, but they are legal in all 50 states. Thank you. Made in Michigan, and then I have a Patreon account. You're from your Patreon. Of course.

Yeah, I have a little YouTube channel. So I also have a little Patreon. Oh, nice. So Patreon, they're the reason I get to sit down here with you today, and they've been with us since the beginning.

So they get the opportunity to ask every single guest a question, sure thing. So this is from JB, Christians believe there are angels and demons among us. What people claim to have seen them is there any evidence in your research with DMT that this spirit realm exists, and do you believe in angels and demons? Yeah, it's a great question.

The short answer is yes, but I don't think that the nature of those is straightforward to people think. So it's clear to me at this point that way more exists than just the round that we're perceiving, and for religious people, this is not a surprise, because they do believe

“that there's a round beyond, and in fact, this whole life is some form of getting into”

the right place with the right people. So I think that with DMT, it's a little bit more surprising than people would expect, because what you see is not necessarily the kind of classical demonic versus angelic. It's more like a very large array of species that you experience, and you can, it doesn't

always happen, but if you do, then there's all kinds, including what I guess you would

call demonic and angelic, I've experienced both by the way, so yeah, but you also have the insectoids, the reptilians, the jokers, there's all kinds of, and they're very clearly distinct from one another. So they're very different, but yes, that demonic part and the angelic part, they're also there.

I would say though, the one of the things that I've seen is that they actually coexist so to speak. So it's almost like, if you want to use like a very dumb-down kind of example, if they're going to work on a bus, they're all kind of like just sitting together, like there's no like segregation in that way, but everybody are still following some rules, sometimes

somebody's trying to break the rules, but even what you would call the demonic entities, we just had some conversation about this with your crew about sleep paralysis, for example, where people feel like a demon is sitting on their chest or something like this, right? Or a witch or something like this, and I was saying that very often if you have these like darker experiences, especially if you're a religious person, you can set up a very

clear boundary. You can say things like, in the name of Jesus Christ, I'm setting a boundary right

“here or in my body, and nothing is allowed, but you have to state it.”

So you have to invoke the boundary and you have to be clear about that.

The second you do that, something happens, it's almost like they're incapable of entering

Or they're not allowed to, to such a degree that it's almost like nobody wants to find

“out what happens if you cross that line.”

So I would say that, yes, I've seen that kind of stuff, but at the same time, there are things that we can be in relationship to, that can actually create a very clear boundary between us and it, because the agency, the importance of the sovereignty of every free

agent in existence is basically almost like a holy thing, like nothing can ever penetrate

that boundary. So I don't know if that answers the question. Wow. That's interesting. Probably I wasn't planning on going into all this right off the bat, but you'd mentioned

in gelat, demonic, then something else, then reptilians and then insectoid or reptilians. What are insect? Hold on. What is that? Yeah, so like this is where, if we're going to, this is not how I would introduce this

“topic for sure, but we're doing this for Patreon, right?”

This is for, well, you want to go into it later? It's because that, if you start there, it will, I think it will actually turn a lot of people off because it's way too deep immediately, and people like, it's just too crazy for them. Let's say that.

Yeah, we'll get there. So, okay, let's start it off. How did you get introduced to DMT? I was looking for it. So I was already a very experienced psychonaut, not something I recommend anyone does, but

I started doing acid when I was 11, and then I was a wild kid, and I did it throughout my life quite a bit, and then by the time I was in 2010, that's when I found DMT for the first time.

“So like, I found, I heard about it, I think 2006 or something, it was a Joe Rogan rant”

on some Ohio radio show, it was before you had to show or anything, and he was just raving about it, and I was like, what is that?

Like, I've done so many psychedelics, I've never heard of DMT, I had to find out, because

there was a line that Joe said that grabbed my attention beyond anything, he said, it doesn't feel like you're not a dimension, you are in another dimension, and I knew exactly what he meant by that, I was like, okay, I got to find out whatever that is. And I tried to find it, couldn't find it, I lived in Indianapolis back then, I tried to make it not very successfully, and then only when I arrived in California is when

I managed to actually find it finally, and then I tried and tried and tried, I actually didn't work for me like 10 times, and I kept on trying, and back in the day it was pretty a pretty gnarly thing to do, because you didn't have the luxury of like vape pins and things like this, it was just like basically a crack bite, and you just smoke this thing, and it was like smoking glass, it was awful, and eventually worked, and sure enough, it delivered

on every front, so to anybody who doesn't know DMT stands for a dimethyl trip to mean, and it's essentially a neuromodulator that a lot of living things have, including humans, we make it, so our lungs make it, some portions of your brain synthesize it, and if you smoke it, so if you take more into your system, it produces an effect that doesn't feel like the effect of a drug, because in every substance that you use, alcohol, weed doesn't

matter, you feel that something is being done to the machinery of your psychology, like you're changing, clearly, like you feel different, right, but DMT doesn't really feel like that, you're not changing, the world is completely, in such ways that really begs the question whether what you're seeing is hallucination, or actually coming from somewhere, the realism of it is not something you're familiar with, and that is why captivates so

much of so many people's imagination around the world, including scientists who are now studying the substance under the question of whether it's actually real, so, you know, as a small site tangent, most psychedelic research revolves around the question of therapy, right, therapeutic, like can you get over addiction, PTSD, things like this, but DMT specifically

and MDMT is being studied through the lens of way to second, are we interacting with

an actual place, so that's the front and center question in some of the research programs, like the Imperial College in London, so that this is being taken seriously, and I've actually just came from a conference in LA where Andrew Gallo, Dr. Andrew Gallo, who's kind of one of the more known psychedelic researchers as a neuroscientist and a computational neuroformatologist, and Donald Hoffman, I don't know if you heard of Donald Hoffman, yeah, so he's the guy

who's basically groct this way of investigating consciousness from a mathematical perspective,

we discover that there is no way that agents are aware of the world for what it really is, and he found a mathematical framework to describe consciousness and they just collaborated. It felt like an inflection in history, because they use psychedelics as a test case,

where they can test Donald Hoffman's theories. Basically, there's something they call,

“I think it's called the experience kernel, which is basically a mathematical object that you can”

basically kind of spin around and it contains, it contains other mathematical object called trace logic, which is basically what they're showing is that by changing the, if I just understood correctly, by changing the experience kernel, you can determine or predict what kind of an experience people could have, so they're now using psychedelics to test this and it, so this has been taken seriously by very prominent known scientists, and it's encouraging because

up until maybe a decade ago, this was considered just fringe thinking, insanity, you know, and now all of a sudden it's being taken a lot more seriously. Wow. Yeah. What is the, I've done five MEO DMT, have done psilocybin, I beggin, MDMA, you're pretty experienced. I think

that's it. I've never done DMT or anything other than five MEO DMTs, what is the, if you

“done five? Yeah. So the first thing to say is that you've done the top, like I don't think you can”

have a bigger experience than five of me. Oh, that's, it's, it's as big as it gets, right? You basically in the presence of something divine and you being washed over with this ocean of white light and you just fully dissolve. But with DMT, even though it's also big, I wouldn't say it's as, you know, like it can be, but it's, it's not as hard hitting as five MEO, but it's surprising in a different, it can be shocking in a different way, in that you experience a lot of new content. So just like,

you know, you wake up from a dream, let's say a very realistic dream, and in the dream you were convinced that you knew that person or you had that job or whatever it is that you were doing, then you wake up and you go, oh, wait, right, that was a dream. Okay, we'll imagine that one level up from this. Imagine waking up from here and going, wait, what? Like, oh, right, that was a dream. But for real, imagine that for real. So that's kind of like what DMT feels like.

So it's a very shocking and also the content you experience is very weird. It's over kind that you didn't even know it was possible to experience. So it can be, you know, shocking in that regard. But it's, you know, it's a very different kind of experience than five MEO. Interesting. So I know you've discussed this probably a thousand times right now, but how did the laser, I mean, the whole reason that you caught my attention was Chase Hughes talking about,

on DMT, you could shine a red laser on a wall and you'll see code. And then you can look through the laser through different angles and seed, more code. Yeah. And as you move the laser, the, it moves on to different code. And I was watching some of your stuff earlier and it's somebody was describing like a flashlight, like if you signed a shine to flashlight in the wall,

“you would just see code. But it's, it's there, but it's not there. And you've had, I think,”

over 2,000 people would miss the same thing. At this point, it's thousands. Yeah. So the way I arrived at it, there's a, there's a movie that we're going to be, well, we're already at the end of it's, we're in the process of selling it now. It's called the discovery by Aaron Vendin, the director, a huge shoutout to Aaron is incredible. And so the full story is going to be in that movie. But the general just of it, it was that I've had a certain kind of experience, even though

everything I just told you about DMT, I've had a kind of experience on it that was even more real than that. In that it was just a being that appeared in front of me, or to the side of me, as real as you. But he was like this hybrid between like a, like a, some kind of an amphibian frog, or a lizard, or something like a combination. But just take yourself through this for a second, right?

If you're willing to just follow me there and not kind of, because there's always these assumptions,

right? If, if a person doesn't know who I am, like who knows why people tell you what they tell you, right? The confabulate, they lie, who knows, right? But if you're willing to follow me there, just imagine what it would be like to all of a sudden this happened to you. Like, like an alien appears right next to you as real as a person. And nothing else is happening. There's no like psychedelic explosion, none of that. I mean, at that moment, I just, I was like, oh my, like,

I did not do. So essentially, he was telling me, I'm real, because I'm giving you information you don't have currently. You don't know how to play these chords. I'm telling you how to do that. So I knew that in that moment, I knew that nothing will ever be the same again, because I knew that even though I can't really prove this to anyone right now. For me, I know for a fact that this is not a hallucination. It can't be. It's so specific. It's so realistic. And he's giving me

information that I don't have. Now, the journey became, how do I prove this to others? How do we talk about this in a way that science can actually get its hands on because science deals with things that are measurable and repeatable? So then for years, I spent trying to figure out how that can be done. So there was all kinds of ways in which I was thinking about it, but I figured okay, because the problem seems to be so insurmountable, we have to think from the most fundamental principles

we can. So almost like a physicist. And I thought, okay, what do I know? I know that light is involved, because I can see the content with my eyes. Obviously, the brain is involved a lot, but what is

“happening with light that carries that information to me? And then I thought, what else do we know?”

We know that if the space is real, like existing on its own side, that means it must have a geometry, it must have a topology, it must have rules, it's own laws of physics, even if they're not our laws of physics. And then for some reason I had this very strong intuition that told me that there has to be a boundary, because we sometimes see it, sometimes we don't see it, right? So that fact alone, this binary tells me that we penetrate some kind of a boundary somewhere. And I was

interested in that boundary. I asked myself, what can we find that boundary? Because my intuition was that even though a lot of people report similar things on DMT, you know, very often people report the same beings or something like this. But how do you really know it's the same? My question was, can we in real time reliably see the same thing, like add the same time? And that was my guiding question. And it took me years, I didn't really like arrive at it right away.

I tried to kind of things, I read a bunch of papers, I was thinking about it. And eventually through a very kind of this windy road, I somehow arrived at this conclusion that somehow defraction, diffracted light, diffracted laser, it's supposed to do something. I wasn't even sure what, but I tried it. And here it was, there was literally like a code that is running in the surface. It's on every single surface. When people see it, they immediately get shocked because

you don't even need a grand or a study or anyone else to see it. The second you see it,

it's as real as this bottle right there. Like it's just there. And it's very clear to you. And that realism is what you were describing. Like when you move the light, it's moving around. They're just like you would, you know, put a flashlight in a dark and just, and just reveal an object basically. So that's essentially how I got to it. And it took me about, I would say about five years, six years, the whole process.

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“What do you mean it took five years to secure your thinking about it?”

Like I didn't figure it out right away. I was thinking about this for four years and years

and years. I was trying to figure it out. What is the first time you saw it?

2019, I think. How can you describe that?

go and look at my pictures because I have everything's kind of kind of long. So it was basically, and actually my, my now wife was instrumental in figuring it out. So there's, this is where it kind of gets into this a little murky territory because whenever I tell

this part of the story, a lot of my friends who are actual scientists, always

encourage me to remove this part of the story. They say, Danny, I love you, but the second you tell me this, I didn't say it yet, but I'm just prefacing this part with this. They say, I, I, I just stop listening to you. I can't listen to this because it's just, you just sound like a madman at that point, but I can't pretend like that's not how it happened so that that's what it was. Signs started appearing, just literally like I would walk in, there would be this,

the number that appears on the ground. Right when I'm thinking about this, a very specific number and I would like put it into a spotlight on a Mac and it would match a physics paper that matches the subject matter that I was thinking, it was just like these wild things. And obviously, I knew, this is before you saw it. This is what, yeah, yeah, this is, I'm telling you like how I got to it, right? So the day that I, that I saw it was, was through this, through this chain of

causation where I started seeing these little signs that kind of led me to it, and it was coupled with me thinking about it logically, obviously, but there was like a lot of kind of help, right, the kind of somebody was kind of guiding me towards it. So the day I figured it out, I was with my wife, and one of these synchronicic moments happened to both of us.

It was up until the same time, the one that the same time. Yes. So basically, I told her about it

before, just like I'm telling you now, and even though you're open to hear me out,

“really, until you see it for yourself, it just kind of like cool story, bro, but who knows, right?”

So she was obviously in the same camp, like I told her what was happening, but she's like, okay, what can I do with this, right? But then something happened to both of us, so she, she got chalked, she was like, oh my god, I was like, yeah, I told you, it's really happening, and I, you know, I catalogged all of this, and then she immediately, you know, changed, and she was like, okay, okay, okay, show me what you were telling, because she wasn't really

listening before, she was like, okay, now show me what you were telling me, and I started showing her all the papers that I found, all that stuff, and actually together, we arrived at this conclusion. So then when I, when I figured out that the laser has something to do with it, it was doing COVID, so you couldn't really order a laser anywhere, you couldn't just go to Amazon and buy a laser. You had the only place ironically, you can get a laser from was China, but, you know,

all the ports were closed, so it was listed as dramatic, like, you know, kept on like being, it was almost like receding from you, right? So I ordered the laser, the only one I could find, and it was the one that you had to like solder a circuit for, and it arrived like three months later, because of the, you know, all the COVID stuff. So it arrived, I do the soldering, I turned it on, I smoked DMT, there's code in the wall,

and I'm looking at this and I'm looking at my wife and I go, there's a code in the wall, and she goes, what do you mean? I said, well, I said the words in English, so like, there's a code in the wall, that's literally what I'm seeing, and she said, I don't understand. And I guess I get it later, and the reason she doesn't understand is because, I mean, you're on DMT,

“so all kinds of shit can happen, right? But when I, what I think, I couldn't communicate at the time”

to her was, it wasn't like a hallucination, it was just there, it was like a real thing there, which is very different than how the visuals of DMT usually happen, and I had so much experience with DMT that I immediately noticed that there's a big difference between

what we usually see on DMT and that, so then, of course, the first thing on the agenda was to show

the people, so I started showing people, I showed it to the friends of mine, everybody started seeing the same thing, everybody was shocked, and then, it's when I got shocked, because until that moment, I still had the possibility in my head where, oh, who knows, maybe I, maybe it's like a mild schizophrenia or something, you know, maybe I'm just like, you know, numbers are talking to me, you know, things like this, it's like, it's very kind of like, the delusions

of grandeur, what are the chances of somebody making a discovery of this kind, right? Zero,

“but all of a sudden, others reporting the same thing, and I was like, yo, what is going on?”

So then, after about person 80, I decided it's time to email a scientist, so actually, I emailed Donald Hoffman, and it was just coming out from a medical procedure, and he was gracious enough to send me all the emails of his PhD students and stuff like that, and in my head it was like, no, no, no, no, I need to talk to him. But anyways, I just, you know, emailed a few scientists for the obvious reasons, it wasn't very successful, because I'm not surprised, because I don't have,

right? And what do you email me about that you found there's a code in the wall? Get out of here with this,

“right? So, and I understand, so I said, okay, well, the one thing I do know how to do a little bit”

is put out content, so I started talking about the cell line, and then all of a sudden, everybody got interested, I was invited to speak on the subject, and slowly I polished the message, and as it was happening, you know, more and more people got involved, some scientists stepped into the picture, might now partner and they'd be Carter emailed me, and he was like, hey man, he started a conversation by, you don't know me, but I've been following you for a while,

and he said, right? I love those ones. Yeah, yeah, but, but he was, you know, I actually, I felt that it was like a very good guy, person, and he's very known in the kind of like the technology development world and also crypto and all that stuff. So he said, when he was going to

these conferences, invariably, at the end of these conferences, there's always this one pocket

of the event where everybody kind of, you know, whip out their wildest cards, they're kind of like, hey, check it this out. Like, I did you hear about this. So in that period of the conference, he would always pull out a pull out of laser, because he tried it and he saw it and it was like, dude, that's crazy. So he pulled out the laser and showed people the laser, and I was like, wait, what do you mean? They're not smoking, so what's the point of the laser? And that's when

I knew Carter's kind of brilliance, because he's all about he calls it lowering the angle or building a bridge. And what he means is he explained to me, well, look, here's the deal. If I just tell them, there's this guy, who discovered this thing, and then there's a laser, and you got to smoke the empty. Look how many things here that they have to imagine, right? But if I just take a laser

“and just put on a wall, I removed two of those. I just told him, here's, here's the thing,”

just look at it. You see this laser? Great. Now, if you smoke DMT right now, that's what you would tell them. You will see code running in there. He said, I've done it, you can see it, and I thought, this is so brilliant. That's what it means by lowering the angle. Make people, make it easier for people, collapse some steps for them, right? So we started working together. How do we lower the angle for everybody else? How do we make this palatable? Conversationally acceptable, and also

taken seriously. So slowly, but surely we built together the code of reality, which is a non-profit,

the basically does the investigative part. And at the same time, I'm doing a lot of the kind of,

you know, public facing, kind of explaining and talking about and all that stuff. And we're now officially kind of looking to start an actual research center in Colorado, where this is going to

“be an actual, like a real thing happening. And we've already done a few studies. We actually”

developed this technology that, so basically, okay, so we discovered recently, this is, this is only very recent, that if you take an image of this band of light on the wall, and you clean it up, so you take a super high resolution image of it, and you put it inside of Apple Vision Pro, so inside of VR. If you smoke DMT, the code that you usually see in the wall will appear in the image, but it will be static. In the surface, it's moving. We took a picture of the code.

So what we did now is we developed this little software by the help of Chris Paris and Sterling Coolier, our brain scan expert and producer in the film. The basically, what allows you to do is label the thing, because we can't really translate between your experience in my experience right now. Like, I don't really know if the color of this chair is the same for you, like it is for me,

and that's not collapsible. Like, I can never know. But what it is, if you go into the Apple

Vision Pro and you're seeing it, right, so you're going to click where you see a symbol, and the computer is going to register your brain scan in that moment, so it registers the event, and it takes a tail, five seconds before, five seconds after, so you have a bit of wiggle room there, and also it knows the location. So it marked the location and exactly where your brain was doing in that moment. And then it opens a radial menu that allows you to pick from six symbols

that are the closest to what we topologically discerned is the most commonly reported symbols. So we ask you which one of those is the closest to what you think you saw. So you click on one. So now the computer knows location, brain moment, and exactly what you reported to see, right, and then you keep doing this. So eventually you will take us a few months for sure, but eventually we're hoping to achieve basically a result of stone of what each person is

reporting and how it's all kind of registered on the computer, and then we're going to start comparing between individuals. The second you show this across individuals, now we don't know what we're

AI saying, yeah, people are reporting the exact same symbol and the exact same spot, you have your very serious news, because then you're proving that there's actual information in there. Now this is not yet the case, I want to be very clear, but that's, I'm giving you an example of one way in which we kind of try to approach this whole thing for more scientific perspective. Wow. How many people have seen this? In the thousands for sure, because people used to email me all the

time, so I'm just kind of, you know, they're a back of their envelope calculation of like how much that might be for sure in the few thousands, but that was like two years ago. So I'm pretty sure now, I'm sure a lot of people don't even reach out, right? So I don't know. We developed this little tool, so in our, in our website, Code of Reality.org, there's a tool called Vailbreak.ai, and it's for the

public, it's just open source. It's just like a GitHub, you know what GitHub is? So it's basically a

repository of all the codes in the world, so like you can go there and basically download any open source code of anything, really, and people share and all that stuff. So basically, Vailbreak.ai, which by the way, Vailbreak was proposed as a name by Chase Use, and we deeply grateful to him,

“he's like, I think it's a great name and we took it and thank you Chase. So basically the idea there”

is that you can report, it's a repository of all the laser experiments, and you can do this anonymously, so you don't have to put your name or anything, but the data is there. So like every single person who does this can report all the details, wavelength, distance, like everything, and the AI is learning slowly with time, like the differences between how people experience it, and all the things that were done, and not done, we know certain substances works, certain substances don't work.

Through that, we know the ketamine definitely doesn't work. We know that somehow on five MEO, we see it even clearer, which is super surprising. In fact, on five MEO, the code, even though you still see the general characters, it's such, I don't know what the right word would be, maybe call the thing, it becomes more of what it really is, it seems. Did you see the movie contact?

“They discovered this secret message from aliens or whatever, so basically in the movie there's this”

one moment where they grock the puzzle, like something happened, and all of a sudden there's these schematics that come out from the, from the things, so people who saw the movie don't know exactly what I mean, it looks like that, like, almost in the schematics, all right, almost like blueprint, so if something, it's truly mind blowing. Wow, yeah, wow. It's only see it through laser. Currently, we are looking at ways to potentially do this. Some people report that they can actually

see it with regular ambient light, like a sunlight that comes to the, you know, in the morning or something, but I do find that we have to be more specific. It might be that the codes that people see in regular light might be different. We don't know. We're going to have to test for that. Is it just a bread laser? No, it can be in any frequency. Would a red laser, it's a little easier because it's the lowest frequency, so it allows you to stay longer with it. Green,

blue, it's it's higher frequency. Anyway, we always suggested you don't do it with any laser

about five miller watts, but but with the higher frequencies, even if it's low output, you still feel like you can get a headache eventually. So the bread just makes it a lot easier to see and to spend more time with. Wow. Wow. What do you think that? What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I want to jump right into that, but I just, no, no, no, I was just drinking, so I didn't want to interrupt your words. You know, what, so what does this mean? I mean, we're talking about

another dimension and alternate reality. Fucking random code that's showing up on the wall. Mm-hmm. If you shine a laser on it and if you peer through it, it different angles. You'll see different code, correct? Well, you would see some of the stuff that the chase said on the show,

“I think there was a little confusing. So first of all, the first thing I want to say is that I don't”

recommend the default laser, just because, and now the whole sales are going to drop. No, no, it's because it's just, it's just because it's too thin and usually they don't have a mechanism

to make it wider. It's a lot easier to see if it's wider. Secondly, it's usually way too powerful.

You don't want something too powerful. You want to actually have very low output. You can actually find like super cheap lasers on Amazon for like 15 bucks that are way better for the job. And there's another thing that Chase said that it's changing the thing. As far as we know, the content is not really changing on anything, not on your skin, not on nothing. Now, if for Chase it does, I would love to see that and I would love to establish that because that's a

Now, that is interesting for many reasons. But the question that you're asking me about what does it all mean? That's a, that's a different kind of question. Because you're asking

“my conviction about what I think is going on versus the scientific question that we currently can”

say, you know, with a certain amount of certainty that we can measure. Those are two separate questions.

So from a scientific perspective, all we can say is that it's always across individuals,

seems to be the same, same behavior, same appearance. And it doesn't matter. By the way, we did run it in every which way. So we did tell people, for example, to look for something else. On purpose to see if we can throw their scent and they're going to say, oh, yeah, like, I don't know, like, you're going to see giraffes. If they say, oh, yeah, I see giraffes. Well, then, obviously, this is some kind of, you know, we're implying something. But no, like, every time we told them to

see something else, they come back reporting the right thing. They say, no, I don't see what you told me, but I see these like weird Asian-looking things. So it's always the same.

“But if you ask me, Danny, Asian-looking things. Yeah, they look like Japanese katakana, just like in the”

movies, like in the Matrix. They look like tiny, tiny, tiny characters. They're not Japanese. I asked people with big Japanese that saw it. It's not Japanese. It's almost like a combination between Japanese, Hebrew, anime, some kind of an old language of some sort. It's not ones and zeros. There's some numbers as well, which is, but again, it's kind of hard to say, right? We created a catalog of all the most reported characters. So I can show you that later. But they're not languages.

It's not characters we know. But they're clearly symbolic representation. Like, you can see it, there's an optimal point of meaning, instantiation in these kind of characters that clearly is intentional. It's not like one of these like, you know, well, squares that kind of look like something, no, no, no. It clearly looks like symbolic representation of something very intentional. And also it creates a structure. The structure itself is very convincing. It's not just the fact that

the characters are there. The structure that the characters make is extremely realistic. It's like you're looking at some kind of a hyper object, like almost like a very advanced technology of some sort. It's something and understanding what that something is is I think one of

“the most important things. But the question of what I think this all means, I just want to be clear”

that that's now Danny Goulers speaking his mind. Like, it's not, I don't expect anyone to follow me there, just because I said so. But my experience of the space and everything that was happening to me, even before I arrived at the code, they, whomever you want to believe they are,

already kind of started showing me more things. So they basically started giving me hints that

I didn't expect, I didn't expect that. It's not something I was, it wasn't like a flavor of reality that I prefer, it was, it was not in my, in my, you know, regular, if I would have to pick what reality is like, this would not be one of them. And they started showing me that this is straight up a computational world, like we're simulated basically. So now this is very contentious because first of all, the immediate thought is like, oh, does this mean it's meaningless?

It's not what it means. It's just computationally rendered. It means that the rules by which the laws of physics are being rendered are computational first and then they become what we see as the physical laws, which is actually not that fringe of an idea in physics today. It's a pretty common, the holographic principle and the computational universe idea. They do go hand in hand to some degree and they're pretty well established known physics. That's a pretty good framework

to see the world through, right? But what I, what I did notice is that there is a big difference between thinking it theoretically and being exposed to it in real time, because that definitely takes a different emotional toll. But full intensive purposes, the fact that we, you know, what I've been told that we live in a simulation doesn't make us fake. It just means that the rules by which our world is rendered are different than what we thought, but it's actually happening

for real. So if you ask me what it means, my take is that this is part of our, the actual

disclosure. So basically, it's like slowly, they're waiting for you to come along to the understanding

that you're not alone, that there's way more than this, that you part of a much larger structure and all of these things are slowly revealing themselves to us in such a way that makes us comfortable with it or more comfortable with it. Because usually, if you know, my take is that the disclosure is not going to happen by somebody coming to a podium and reading a speech and telling you what somebody else told them to say, it's going to be happening for all individuals privately

at the same time. And it's going to have to happen through gentler methods, which is we are leaning

“into it. We are trying to understand one one way in which I'm illustrating this point is if you put”

tools on the table and you let a monkey play with it, right? If a monkey manages to figure out what the tools are for and therefore do something useful with them, great. That means the monkey is ready to understand clearly, right? But just by this sheer fact that they manage to do it, if they can't, no harm done. They just played with some objects, didn't understand. It's all good. That way, nobody's being shocked out of their regular perceptual space, you know what I'm saying. So that's

essentially what I'm seeing is happening is that they're gently leaving these little hints in different ways. The laser is just one of them. A lot more people are open to use psychedelics and experience these more heightened states. And as you know, when you're there, there's not a doubt in your mind that there's more than this. Now, as a religious person, I'm sure that

that is already there. But even if somebody, I always say, if somebody is an atheist,

I can't imagine they stay atheists after doing five of you know, that's just to me that's impossible. Like it's so obvious that there's more than this at that point, right? So I think that all of these things, they're basically gentle and then not so gentle ways to help us understand.

“That's what I think is happening. It's basically us coming to this greater realization.”

How many times have you personally seen this? I don't know. I don't count, but many, many, many, yeah. I've done DMT thousands of times and the code every time we have to do it and every time we'll show you people. So it's either also in the hundreds or in the thousands. Wow. Yeah. Wow. What do I mean? So do you guide people to see this? Not for the sake of itself so much anymore because I realize that there's a much bigger game to be played in terms of

caring for people as well being and their mental state. So we do retreats now and beautiful place in Costa Rica and Nassara and our big emphasis of the retreats is not necessarily the lasers even though they're there. It's to help people create a good healthy framework around it. So like when we do show them that this, it's already after we went through quite a bit of experiences, understanding, there's some education involved and then it's a lot easier to

absorb the psychological shock because you understand that the importance is your immediate experience and harmony. Let's talk about the nature of computation, okay?

“What is self-executing code? Well that's what I call what it appears to be doing. Self-executing”

in the sense that it's doing a function. It's clearly moving and doing something. So that's what I mean by self-executing. It just probably means automated and it appears like being behaving like a code of some sort that is instantiated in the environment itself. So usually in a computer what happens is you have layers, right? So you have the actual binary part which is controlled by the

logic gates which is basically just a lot of ones and zero moving back and forth rapidly and there's

I don't know if it's I think millions of them happening at once and then that is being read by the compilers and by the different layers and what happens is that there's a communication between the level where humans exist where we punch code which is basically just a representation for the layers of what we want it to do but then really across the levels the one thing that stays the same is the computation. What computation is it's basically a logical, it's a logical process

instantiated in a physical matter that's the the most naked way of describing it. So it's somehow utilizing a lot of Boolean logic so like yes no questions two things to then create a function and through that somehow you can do anything literally anything from creating sound, creating images, rendering anything which by the way kind of implies that there's a much deeper principle here than just what we do with it that there seems to be way more what it

really is, right? It's almost like we didn't discover it, we didn't invent computation, we discovered it exhibited by the fact that if you run a simulation of something on a computer you can simulate all the laws of physics you know physicists do this all the time plus you can make up laws of physics so you can do the laws of physics plus infinite amount of other things that you can do with it so it shows you that it's probably more fundamental than even our laws of physics and again this

idea is not French so when you're when you're when you're actually rendering any content you're essentially simulating it but you're giving rise to it like it's you know we do it in our

you know computational physics or information physics it's an actual field it's not a it's not a fringe idea there's this attempt of describing the laws of physics in terms of informational

processing basically and how do you actually make sense of it mathematically through

Claude Channins theory of information in other tools so yeah it's like it's a very well-established thing in physics actually so do you think that the I don't know the laws of reality or

“or whatever we want to call it do you think that's what you're seeing in the code”

maybe or maybe it's kind of like what I think we're seeing is the pre-rendering of what our experience is you just had what's been actually is a really really up-and-coming famous experiences yes yes brilliant brilliant and I saw that she was talking to you about the holographic principle a little bit right so the holographic principle now is a pretty mainstream accepted principle that basically states everything she explained to you which is that somehow the universe is a three-dimensional

projection from a two-dimensional filament outside of the universe somewhere right so what I think is happening is a kind of similar with a slight modification so if you look at how holograms are made like at least the way that we make them the simplest way to describe them is that so you have a beam of light coming in it's being split into two by beam splitter and then both of these beams are traveling through mirrors through a path one of them travels through the object that you

try to record let's say a mug right so it goes to the mug and it goes towards the screen pretty easy to imagine right so what happens is that this beam is influenced by the shape of the mug and it measures the amplitude just so the cameras do so like how high or low the waves are right

“and it registers this at the at the screen that's how regular picture is taken it's also why it's just”

frozen you can't really when you look around a picture it doesn't change right there's just kind of like one the angle you took that's it but the other beam comes through the sets of mirrors and then it meets

the first beam that intersection this angle it's measuring the phase so the distances between the

waves between of the first beam and that information is also at the same time with the amplitude is instantiated in the sheet where it's recorded so now you have the amplitude and the phase together in every point of the sheet where it's recorded what that gives you is a full spectrum light field informational so that means that every pixel on the screen where it's recorded contains all the possible orientations of the object that you recorded that's why when you look at a hologram

no matter where you look it kind of looks like it's actually there right because you mimic the

“your positioning in relationship to it so what I think is happening is that what our consciousness”

is like our human consciousness is that second beam it's actual light like I think that what

our conscious awareness is actual light and the light that you see is that first beam so just like the first beam went through the object every photon that is emitted in the universe is that first beam coming through and then our beam is meeting it at an angle like our conscious awareness meeting it at an angle so not to confuse it with our physical bodies I'm not talking about the physical body I'm talking about pure awareness and the angle in which they intersect determines what the

laws of physics appear to us and if there's another civilization looking from a slightly different angle the laws of physics might appear different to them now what is this object right because in the case of like in this case we use the mug right but in the case of the universe kind of like just all content what is this object that is carrying this information what I think what it is the subject in the middle instead of the mug that's a quantum touring machine so touring machine is

basically a mathematical description that Alan touring created that shows that if you have an actual touring machine just by going through logical steps of you know if it gets orders of like if you get to an uneven number go three numbers back if you get if you landed on an even number do this or something like this so it has instructions right so if a touring machine is complete it's called touring complete touring proved that it can produce anything anything any content and what a quantum touring

machine is is basically the same thing just it can do it on a quantum level so you can do it laterally across all the you know parallel worlds or however it is that you like to imagine it so basically it's the ultimate computational object that the first light is going through

and then your conscious awareness is intersecting it in an angle and it gives rise to the specific

experience that you're having and in our and in our world that that sheet where everything is being recorded is space time itself so it's the bulk what's called physicist called the bulk like

“the actual space time fabric itself so that that's what I think is happening and what I think the”

code in the wall is is almost like so if you're in every point of this you know sheet you're at one point of awareness right when you smoke DMD I think what happens is it expands your periphery this way so you can actually see the pre-render you see the content before it's solidified into this regular image that your brain is ready used to because your brain is very good at through your genes and everything it is very good consolidating it into some kind of a representation

because clearly you know that this is not what the real world looks like right even without anything that I'm saying even from purely a physics perspective this is not what atoms look like this is not what quantum fields look like right whatever this is is some kind of a rendering already it's like a regular it's almost like a desktop that's put in front of us to help us operate right so if you're used to this little your your your brain is used to this little bubble where everything is kind of normal

if you expand that that perceptual angle you all of a sudden would see basically the thing that it

“was a second before it rendered into this regular thing so that I think that what we're looking”

at might be that actually and as wild as everything that I just told you sounds this is actually testable let me rephrase this sure so you think how the fuck how do I say this so you think that I mean essentially what you're saying is code is the future when you're seeing the code it is a future that has not been rendered into your perception of reality quite yet more like the thing that it was a second before it became what it is almost like that you seeing the past if anything

okay yeah so it's almost like or I guess you can think yeah I can see what you're saying like you can think of it like that as well but really I don't think time enters the picture here it's more like and in this model time is actually an illusion it's not really nothing is linear it's just progression of computational steps so if this then that if that then this next thing but it's not so much about like a fluidity of time the way that we think about it now this might sound like a distinction

without a difference but there is a difference there so would it be so then would it be are you saying what it shit are you seeing reality for what it is from a different perception maybe from a you see what reality more for what it really is which is not very conducive to a regular

“operation if you have to function you know especially on a high level with anything”

seeing all this extra content is not helpful because you're just like it's too much information you wasting resources and energy it's good to be able to maybe deduct like new things about the world but you can't operate out of that place in a regular basis or if you do want to do that you're going to have to create a much more robust machinery to be able to handle all this extra information you need a better brain and then maybe you can incorporate that information in such a

way now all of this again I want to be super clear all of this is already kind of like Danny's traveling with you through like what he thinks is going on land this is not anything that was established and I want to be very clear about this but that's my best kind of theoretical framework of what I think is going on and like I said this is testable so we don't know how the test is yet but if we can figure out what constitutes this change of an angle between the beams

if we can change it we should see predictable departure from what we see as the norm maybe this can be done with some powerful magnetic stimulation of the brain maybe can be done some other way but the theoretical framework that I'm proposing is testable and it's fossil-fibled so there would be things that if we see them it would render what I'm saying completely false it would be possible to this prove it as well wow this is interesting a second quick break true

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okay Danny we're back from the break we wanted to talk about the god equation what is the god equation i'm not sure what you're referring to are you talking about the the god equation you think that the deepest levels computation consciousness and divinity collapse into one thing a single universal code at the center of everything that's the bridge from physics to god later and is this making yeah yeah yeah yeah i was just making sure that i didn't send the question

“yeah i do see and this is this kind of actually refers back to the question of what i think”

is going on from what i'm a became aware of basically the reason that we're now allowed to know all

of this like it because if you think about it like if if we are accepting at least the proposition that this is being you know this world is constructed is being built why would the constructors allow us to see that right well that gives us a hint is like we're supposed to we're supposed to wake up to a larger reality and part of that i think is because it kind of combines a little bit more modern ideas of what computation is an AI and all that stuff to what ultimately

the god almighty is which is that i found it surprising actually that most Christians that i talk to this about they're actually not as rattled by this as i thought they would be a lot of them say to me well in the beginning was the word no that sounds like it makes sense to me that god

would basically use you know the word that language of some sort of basically rendered the world

now i my best attempt kind of outlining the whole thing is a basically so do you know what the alignment problem is i don't so the alignment problem in AI research is the issue of before chat GPT becomes kind it you know before it becomes this fully fledged its own thing how do we

that question is very serious because it has real consequences and the reason it's so hard is because

“we're not sure what our values are now if you're a Christian you might say no of course we do”

all we gotta do is follow Jesus but not everybody does and realistically we have to align all of societies all over the world under one umbrella what is moral what is ethics it says the most debated thing you know is it is it cultural is it universal what is that so what i realize is that essentially what's happening is that we are the agi that we imagine will rise in a machine where the one's

being aligned so basically how would you solve the alignment problem you would break the one mind into many

many many minds and make it believe like it's all kind of separate agents competing with one another and then you watch you enclose it in a system and then you watch you watch what it does in relationship to itself because that accents it's it's actual essence whatever it is at bottom will come up to the surface by it interacting with itself it's almost it's going to distill it's more it's

“most essential components and what i think is going on that's how God is doing that it's basically”

running us on some kind of a substrate and watching like how would we behave when we're not sure that we're being watched or don't know we're being watched but not watching the you know espionage kind of way but just observed for our actual behavior for what it is and then ultimately if we do pass the alignment problem so like we show that actually we can align with great of values we get to play the bigger game so we're saying that you think that the code they're saying is maybe the beginning

of the reveal of an alignment correct which I guess in Christian terms you can think of it as rapture you can think of it in many different ways but essentially it's testing because think about it this way even from the most forget about the religious aspect of it even from the most simple logical game theoretical perspective there's many different strategies we can play you know to achieve goals right and we call them all

kinds of things we call them political systems we call them you know strategies in the company nation strategies so like you know socialism versus capital whatever whatever it is they certain games can achieve certain goals at a certain amount of time and it would be better the achieving certain things and less good and achieving other things right and depending on the task you're trying to achieve and depending on you scale and what you're playing other tools would

be necessary to make that thing work right it's not one glove fits all so if we look at the trajectory of everything that happens so far we got pretty far like that's

everything we built is pretty amazing like you know we're not without our shortcomings

obviously but this is pretty impressive right so how do we do this we did it by the competition game so we basically the the what we what we get is this excitement from the competition right this it's like our team versus their team and it it it invigorates people it's kind of like let's win right so you might lose but even the promise of the losing kind of gives the the game some zest like it has like a spice right it's very energizing but if you look at it logically

there's only relatively short periods of time in which the the competition game can work it can work for 10 years 20 years 30 years maybe maybe 50 years tops I would say beyond that you can really trust that game because you constantly competing with other agents who are trying to win the game so

one of the ways to win the game is to try and remove you from the board right it's always implied

in the competition game the radical the radical version of it but there's this other game called the collaboration love game which sounds very sappy from the perspective of where most people sit

“but if you think about it if you want to make a plan for a thousand years 1500 years that's the”

only way to do it it can only be done by civilization that is playing the collaborative love game what does that mean it means they get excited and energized by the prospect of collaboration they're actually excited to work together towards a unified goal more than they're excited

higher vibrational game can we be the kind of nodes on inside of the system that get excited by the field of collaboration and love and then we get to actually play that large game because then by definition you can be trusted you don't need to be policed because what you really want the thing that you're constantly aiming for is somehow get into the vibe with others

“collaborate do this beautiful thing and if you want to traverse between stars and do all these”

like bigger things the only way to do it is through a species that actually cares not just about themselves but everything else they touch they care about the different bios fears they arrive at so they don't just come to a place and take and move on they go because they they want to be connected they want to understand the thing they want to collaborate with it they want to understand what the biosphere is doing and not destroy it but actually maybe work with it in such a way that

is harmonious creating beautiful structure and not just functional structures this is the kind of civilization that is favorable to play the more universal game civilizations that just live for themselves they're much less favorable for the more you know for the higher game and if you think of it from the perspective of resources right the competition is because we lived in a

“world until now that is very limited resources so it's either you or me which is understandable it's”

how all of nature on planet earth is at the moment right but if we somehow arrive at a state of the civilization where literally there's no resource issue so like if you make some personal replicators that can just you know like in Star Trek that can just make anything well forget about for a second

the whole debate of like how do you inject it into a economical system and the government will never

have this sure let's say we solve all this let's say we've solved all of that we're now in a world where everything is available right now so the question becomes what is the only currency because right now currency is basically you is measured by the fact that you're adding some kind of a value to society the work wasn't there without you right so if you're if you're kind of an annoying person even if you are if you're a really good I don't know carpenter or really good at fixing things

or whatever it is a lot of the the issues people might have with you personally are being overlooked because you're really good at this thing that I need right I need you to fix my thing so I'm going to forgive the fact that you're a bit like hard to be around and I will just look at the fact that you're valuable to me because you can help me right you can help me get resources of some sort right but if I solve the resources problem that doesn't exist anymore I can just go to the store

get whatever I want I don't have to pay for it I just go and get what I want I go and do whatever this that I please I don't have to take anything from anyone anymore like I I no longer care to be around people that I don't care to be around and I can choose to do so so the only currency that stays in that world is vibes if you're not fun to be around that's negative currency if when you leave the room people really miss you right away that's positive currency

“because that's the only thing that matters how I feel in your presence becomes the only thing”

that matters so now blow this up to the universal game most civilizations are way more advanced

clearly solve the the resources problem that's one of the first things that you have to solve right

so they don't need anyone with a broken vibe see what I'm saying so they need you to get that part on the control as a civilization before they let let you enter their house that's essentially the beginning of the first kind of ascending or alignment or whatever it is and even if I really look at the you know the whole question perspective that sounds like it's exactly what we're saying here right it's just that

we're postulating God Almighty that feels different which I understand than an advanced civilization divinity does feel different than just some kind of an advanced species right in terms of how we define it but fall intense of purposes the the rule seems to be the same you don't get to enter the kingdom of heaven if you don't get your shit together hmm wow this is a lot deeper than I was thinking but so I want to move into simulation theory but before we do we have a seven we call the

hot question let's do it before he came on we had Claude and Thropic say I scraped the internet for the one question my audience would want to ask you the most we had a clip with Chase Hughes

go viral over 15 million views where he breaks down your DeWalt Laser experiment people on DMT

seeing the same code on a wall no explanation for it so I have to ask you the guy who actually

great question it's a question that I really had to think about when my wife posed it to me

“because she she saw the code and she said you know I'm not so sure that it tells me”

we live in a simulation so I'm not sure why you're so sure exactly what the person is asking and then I had to think about it and she's right it had nothing to do with the code the reason I'm so sure is because it was shown to me directly now again I don't expect anyone to just follow me there but that's the answer to the question the reason I'm so sure is because it was shown to me directly yeah if reality is code then in theory you could rewrite it like editing a video game

does that mean time travel is real it's not necessarily you can rewrite the game you always move

forward in a computational path logic so the you know the way the computation executes is always forward so even the thing that looks like backwards it's never backwards you're still moving forward in the logical map so if you have a if you have a route to go what appears to be back

“for an experience so you can do that but technically it's never moving back so like when something”

is rendered fully computed it's it's it can never be uncomputed that that can't happen what can happen is that you can somehow find a route forward there would appear as if things going back because you know somehow things devolve according to the rules of whatever environment you're in that does not preclude time travel and according to Einstein you know time travel is possible in certain conditions but I would say it's more it would be more like you ending up in the world

that devolved or you it but if if the person is asking can you go to like a timeline that existed before computationally that's not a thing that's not that's not a possible thing now you would probably just ending up in some parallel world and that is happening along the branches where you add so like you know computation executes executes like branches so it's called a decision tree so if this then that there's only maybe two logical options these two logical options have three

others each one and then it keeps branching up right so what would happen here is that those would be considered world lines or parallel worlds right so if you under that question if you're

going to be moving to a previous time you can never move back to your own branch of previous time

that can never happen because that was executed it was done right but what you can do you can probably maybe jump to some other point that is laterally the same on yours you can just jump computation because that there's something called iridus computation iridus ability which means

“there are certain processes that the only way to get there is to compute it in full you can't really”

jump forward you can't really do that some things you can but not all of them but in the case of time travel would say would the only way I can see that it would be possible is if people move across the same layer where you add where somehow these branches evolved slower and they would be equivalent to the past of yourself see what I'm saying but it's like it's not going to be the same people that you've actually interacted with in the past it would be agents that are of a different

world there would be literally basically what you're saying is you're talking about decision points

yes that are split and so and so you're basically what you're saying is every every possible scenario right is an alternate world and so if I make the decision to fuck I can't think of anything anything some decisions take longer than others to come to fruition or whatever we want to call it right and so if I if I make decision a and it only takes a couple of days then I'm on to the next breaking point right if I take decision D that takes a year and so you follow the pathway down

is that what you're saying yeah so you go down decision A but then you want to slide over to decision B which decision A took a couple of days decision B took years yeah you can think of it like this like the problem with so the problem with the question is there's three different kinds of time in physics that are being considered there's the perception of time which is one kind of like psychological time right there's the uh just the chronological time what is the third one

there's the fit well there's the physical time which is easy which is just like literally how many computational steps the universe took from the beginning in every point like kind of like the physical thing of it and then there's the I don't know why I'm spacing on the third one there's a third one think it's either chronological time but I don't know why that will be

different ones and they all kind of interact with one another what is being what I think is really the core of the question is the physical time like can you go to a different physical time

“I think the answer is no I think you can go to a perception of a different time but not to an actual”

different time and of course first of all I'm not a physicist and second so I'm kind of just you know

reiterating what I know from physicist but logically it doesn't seem to be the second you make a decision it's done there's no more like you can't undo it like it's what it is so like the example that along the lens of what you were outlining if I go to the store right and all of a sudden I meet somebody where I haven't seen in 20 years and I'm like oh my god have you been you know all that stuff and be like oh actually I just you know I started this huge company blah blah blah

dude aren't you I don't know uh software engineer yeah dude I need someone with your exact set of skills and because you know each other you're being shot to some kind of a high position their company

within five years you're multi-millionaire that was one path you took what if you took a different

“street that day right but then your timeline doesn't include this event you don't become a million”

there five is and then maybe you like really down on your luck and everything kind of goes to shit just because you took a different street right so now the question is five years on the line where one of you is a millionaire one of them is not it's a different event in the same cascade of time but there might be what you implied which is also the kinds of things that will it will like take you to compute longer so decisions are would take you longer they might have hindered

not just your but a whole civilization style like I don't know if if some events in the future in the past wouldn't happen maybe we would have rockets by fourteen hundred you know what I mean and then by now we'd be like but but that's a different kind of thing than saying the amount of actual seconds the ticked from the beginning of the universe in this particular region of space would still be the same like it's it's not going to check the events would look

different but the the actual physical time will still be ticking in the same rate at that region of space because you know in space there's actually no such thing is one ticking clock for the whole universe the time and then drama the is literally a different time not just because it's very far away if you look at the whole universe is a thing and then the amount of seconds that you can account from the beginning of the universe is different for different regions of space that's where

“relativity is so this is why it makes this question very complicated because you have to think of it”

from a physics perspective physical time perceptual time I guess chronological time would be what I describe with the technology and then you also have to think about what that this all of this looks like if you think about everything in terms of computation which adds this extra layer of complexity of how it all works so so do you think that so are you so every decision point is a split and perception of reality every every instance of your neuron firing anything not even something you

do unconsciously so there's trillions of them happening every second and so you think that

you think that all of those realities actually exist yes they all computed at once basically and you're on one of them and in fact there's some ideas from some you know so I have a question so I'm at a decision point right now there's a bonus question here let's go so if I ask the bonus question yeah then that we're at a decision point right where why is out so if I ask the bonus question that transfers me into another reality yes if I don't ask the bonus question exactly

that transfers me into another alternate reality correct so but let me help with that one thing that is entering the picture that changes the how dire what you describing is right now is air correction the seems to be the disability to air correct is a very unique ability of conscious agents like ourselves that allows us to actually steer to some degree that even if we went forward this way it allows us to steer back closer towards this other world that we might have ended up with

so for example if you ask the bonus question but there was a I don't know a preference of yours of where you wanted the conversation to go and then by asking the bonus question you felt like oh it took us too far a field from where I wanted to go you can air correct you can start steering the conversation back there and we can still end up pretty much there so world lines can split they can also emerge so that's not moving you're making a decision and that's is and that is the

split of two worlds two realities two perceptions of reality whatever then you really aren't making a decision correct because both decisions have been both sides of that decision had been made

getting at yeah you asking the deepest question that bothers the most amount of people which is the

“whole question of free will which no you don't have it but you do have the perception of it”

that determines how the world would look like to you so it's people find a lot of salvation and solace in the the idea that they're kind of the masters of the own reality but the reality of it is that these things are just kind of happen and no you don't know which one of them you are you are who you are and there is some conversation that is happening in computational physics about what it would be like to be the observer so like the thing that is computing all the paths at once

but that's not us we're the fragments of whatever that is right and you can think of it as God you can think of it as whatever it is that that you know that is comfortable for you but fall intense and purposes separate agents like ourselves are not experiencing the the world lines in their totality

you you're always in one of those decisions split moments so your history or your world line

is one that is constantly kind of traveling through these but it adds to the collective to basically have every possible experience that's the point of it basically it wants to know what it's like to have all the possible kinds of experiences and you're just one of them basically and again there's there are these some I guess more elaborate ideas about how maybe when we are entering certain heightened states maybe we are experiencing more than one world line like you know things like this

but if we want to really like ask the questions seriously this would have to be testable and and people don't know but this is actually a pretty like the reason the quantum computers work so if you ask someone like David Deutsch was a famous physicist who actually wrote something called the Deutsche equations which are responsible for being able to make quantum computers quantum computers are a real thing they work they do what they do and there's very complicated science behind them

that we understand to some degree quite well why am I mentioning this well quantum computers and I'm mentioning David Deutsch because he's a serious you know scientists who definitely understands

“the technical part of it and according to him and many scientists like him the only way the quantum”

computer computers can do what they do is if these world lines are real otherwise it would never work

because what they do is literally borrow computation from the parallel worlds and it's almost like we're computing together it's like in these parallel worlds that are adjacent to ours and I do mean actually like straight up like you and me there's another one like us there's just a little bit to the side of us in this hyperspace in which you were not sitting like this but maybe one finger was up or something a little different but not very different and then the further you go it becomes

more and more and more different there's like variation right but what happens in according to people like David Deutsch what happens when you do a quantum compute is that you actually the reason you can do these enormous calculations in an instance is because the calculation itself is being done across the worlds so you not the only one making that calculation all of these parallel worlds with scientists with the same exact machine across the the worlds are doing the same thing

with you and they know you're doing it too and they're using special equations to kind of determine where we are in the map so to some degree do the thing you're asking about which one are we in this whole thing and what is the probability of that and all that and that lateral computation across the world is what allows us to do this enormous calculation all of the ones see what I'm saying so to some degree you can say that the only reason we can do quantum computation is because these

worlds are completely real and that is something that obviously is not always spoken about because

it just kind of sounds like out there but it's not a fringe crazy idea that's a pretty well established idea in some in some physicists mind well you told Danny Jones that were the AGI yeah what do you mean by that but this is something that I already told you which is that we are that thing that we think will emerge in the machine where it so we are that AGI it's just that all these tools are reflections of us so like if you really think about okay so if you

think about what you do with charge bt right a lot of people are really scared and some people are excited right but like think about it you can do anything literally anything why don't people do that because they don't believe that they can yeah there's a failure of imagination but yesterday I had a podcast and I was talking to this and you know there was some trepidation expressed about AI and I said well because he said like my goal which is a beautiful goal he said my goal is to

“create a more like reconnect without a humans and I'm and I'm all for it I think we should definitely”

do that but I said but watch this you can use changey pt or any other AI to actually help you do that

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head to ridge.com and use code SRS and you're all set after you purchase they'll ask where you heard about them please support our show and tell them our show sent you all you got to do is ask the right questions you can say hey I want to start a company because that actually utilizes AI but I want to make sure that it also helps people connect with one another and I want to utilize the power of 15 people to do the work of 100 people so instead of

firing people which by the way this is what's happening I don't know if you know this but the you know people are very afraid of software engineering jobs disappearing because of AI I've heard of that but wait didn't it it went up because what happened is that a lot of

“companies instead of thinking in a subtractive way they started thinking in an expensive way and they”

said instead of firing we don't need these 10 people instead of doing that they said how can we do the job of five times more people with the people that we have because now we can do that right and actually when they did that they realized oh my god we actually need more people and also more people can do it because it's more based on logic and not so much you knowing all the codes right so that so I told them it's like look you can ask it say I want to build a company

based on AI that would help people do more work but also connect on a meaningful level how do I do that it will help you think about this oh maybe I need to allocate half of the day for us just doing research and then half of the other day the the second half of the day us just like sitting in a in a thing shooting the shit exchanging ideas would that be more beneficial less beneficial how do I do I want to I want to optimize human connection you can do that

so the point that I'm making with the AI thing is that essentially what I told you with the alignment problem we are inside of one of these kind of simulations and we are given more and more advanced tools to see what we do with them it's part of the alignment we want it so now that

you know people always said like if I would have the eight billion dollars that this rich person has

oh boy would I do the right thing most people just make a mess it's very difficult to know what to do no matter how much money you have and change your P.T. is a proof of that because there's literally nothing you can't do with it like it's only it only it only is determined by how much imagination you have it's like you can sit down and learn anything about any field what it's about what are the blindspots is there something to be done that wasn't already done you can ask all the questions and

universe and actually do something super meaningful with your life or you can ask it to write your email

the choice is yours ultimately this creative moment is essentially what connects us to the totality

of the simulation that moment of this decision tree that we're talking about is the same one that in you feels like a choice so that creative moment of something truly potentially now can only come from

that it's like to be something it's only like agents like ourselves basically what do you think

our perception the time speeds up as we age oh well there's a lot of things that some of it can be said to towards something kind of more you know mystical like maybe you know time is ramping up actually the other one you can say well it's just a matter of been there done that right like the if it's not a thing you're not familiar with if it's a thing you're not familiar with then your brain is really paying attention because you're trying to learn it so every moment stretches when you just

doing the same thing over and over again which happens more of the older you get then you brain kind of deletes like it's just like yeah it's going to work it collapses into a non-experience you're

“just kind of driving you don't remember that at all when you're a kid everything is like super novel”

everything is super new and become older it's kind of like ah yeah I know what that is but if you you know take the time with it or if you do like you go to a new country or notice that those feel longer so that tells you that it probably there's a lot of psychological kind of time dilation happening but I'm very open to the possibility that even physical time is ramping up because maybe we're kind of being you know the whole idea of the singularity we actually entering some kind of

some kind of a world where the actual difference between this moment and the next becomes so enormous that everything feels like it's just accelerates and that's also very uh very possible in fact I think we're we're in it now think the reason that everything kind of feels very tumultuous is because we're entering the stage where everything just changing very rapidly and we are trying to catch up we're just trying to you know you kind of have to take a moment and sit back and allow

“you so but I think that these abilities to do that to be able to just step back and allow yourself”

to be more in the present moment are actually key for being able to become more um I guess computationally literate like it because if information will be moving really fast the only negative thing about it is that if you can't cope with it like if it's just too fast in such a way that causes you to be uh there's like dissonance you know it's uncomfortable then yeah it's not a good thing but if you can think on 10 channels and once and you can

totally handle it and just it's uh the experience is even more it's it's more profound it's more beautiful you more there but then there's no issue it's beautiful like yeah bring it on like so people would need to develop these skills of presence not attachment all the basically the stuff that is being spoken about in eastern traditions they're key for being able to interact with these systems in a better and better way and and also not to become slaves to them because

that's always a danger that can happen we can just kind of pigeonhole ourselves we can kind of

like get locked into this weird cycle where we only use it for kind of like repetitive tasks and it just gets locked in this weird thing right so that it's up to us to think out instead of thinking I'll do that thinking small yeah what simulation this is weird I just had this conversation

“I think it was the last Friday we talked about it for a couple hours just in the other room and”

I mean so if this is some type of a simulation is your perception are we all experiencing the same reality I guess what I'm asking or am I in my own yeah perceived fucking movie I mean I don't know any other way to put it but for you I mean are you here I think about this shit all the time I mean are are you I mean when you think about things like manifestation you know which I think

probably works there's so many things in my own life that I did are so far out I never thought

I would have the opportunity to experience some of the things that I've experienced and and go away back to to right now well he even just right now I can't I can't believe that the operation that I've built with my team is where it is it doesn't seem real the did the none of this fucking seems real to me what's going on in the world doesn't seem fucking real to me the success doesn't seem real to me the survival and some of the shit that I've survived doesn't seem real to me

I mean it's and so if I'm making any damn sense of yeah is this in my alone in my reality and these are all just projections of things that I've created in my head everything from my kids to my

here because it's my making sense perfect sense okay so okay let's let's try and keep it this simplest possible yes to your question you are in your own reality however the agents that are represented in your reality are real in their own reality so just like when you go into let's say

“a virtual world like you put apple vision pro whatever and we go into this I think there's some projects”

like this like earth to or something where you get or I think earth to or something else but doesn't matter like a like a virtual space where we meet right you're meeting the other like the the projections inside of that world but they represent a real person you assume saying so in that world if you try to herd them physically you can't really but maybe if you try and herd them psychologically you can because there's a real person there they're receiving the information right so imagine if the

system builds such a safe environment that basically even psychologically you can't herd other people

if you really try because you're hurting just their kind of avatars but the system is still registering what you're doing and it's informing the rest of them about your behavior so then they get to choose how they interact with the projection of it so basically if you did this or that in the world of your wife it's out of where she is that translates to real actions depending on the situation that you finds herself with your avatars and it's only in the moments where we enter that field of collaboration

or love like actual one not the one that you can kind of fake by behaving a certain way but that when you really feel it that's when you start feeling you start getting closer to what that conscious agent really is and if you're fully immersed in this love field then you will experience their actual just like you would imagine in this life and notice that it does feel different

you don't even with the closest people in your life you don't always feel it but when you do

“you have to admit that it feels different it feels different and the world feels different”

all of a sudden there's this like oh you just hear it there's like a thing there's like there's a this harmony flowing there's like a wow with children it's very easy to see not what they annoy you but when you like really like there with them especially with them because it's like so pure right but if you're having a bit of an adult and you manage to kind of remove all the psychological kind of imperatives and like what I think you think and all of these like psychological games all of a

sudden if you just lower the volume on this and you just in the presence of someone else which is very possible there's a different kind of experience available that is of the flavor of the real of the conscious agent and if I understood the whole like kind of what it all trying to culminate in is that eventually it wants all the agents of one simulation to enter that field and that's when

“essentially that's what a sentient is it's like that's when you fully unify it's like one like”

truly truly feel each other now I'm not talking about in this like kind of like you know this fakeable oh I know you talk about actual genuine genuine like true connection in the moment right so and camaraderie holds some elements of that but camaraderie is more of a around a task so you joined by a task imagine doing that just on just on command just like a muscle so yes you're in your own simulation but you can also enter more in this space of others if you

manage to enter that space more with other people what do you think happens when we die depending on what happened to you while you were alive so basically I do think that there's serious data for reincarnation and also it makes sense in terms of everything else that I've seen so it's almost like the the soul is basically the ultimate hard drive it contains all the possible experiential pathways but it trips away it gives it kind of reformulates itself which is I guess what

you can say is the you know when it plays your life to you which is a pretty established kind of experience and then it it wipes everything there was already done before clean it's no need for that

and only keeps the super novel experiences that never happened before and then it proceeds to the next

life to the next simulation and it does it again and again and eventually all of these hard drives arrive back at the source and they inform the source about what it's like to have every possible experience and that is due to basically it kind of goes to the heart of why I saw these simulations happen which essentially is it's deattempt to answer the ultimate questions like why actually like

blasphemous like they do see it as that kind of utterance as blasphemous because it's like

“what are you saying God doesn't know then you don't you then you're not talking about God because”

God is perfect and God knows everything okay and stand but let's pretend he doesn't let's pretend that there's one thing that God doesn't know which is why right and what I saw is that basically that's the it's the answer collecting itself that's the relationship that all conscience agents actually have with the source which is there the answer to the question but at the same time it also allows for this processing of how it's like to just let go just truly just let go of

the question altogether and both of those are being trained at the same time because it's and this is gets a little this is kind of novel because it's you know it's very dramatic but from what I saw is basically if you're this infinite being they can do anything and technically nothing matters because it's like I can do anything and you know there's no price for anything right so you would separate yourself or these in and if there's one thing you don't know let's say which is like why you're there

then the two things that would make sense to do one try and answer that question that's kind of

interesting like I actually want to know right so you would create a process by which the answer is

kind of collecting itself and then you would also allow for the game of letting go to be played through the simulations as well which I guess you can think of it more like the Eastern tradition like the monk that goes into the cave and feels completely bliss without anything just kind of being there right that's a pretty good skill if you are a being that will be there forever and you don't know why right it's actually kind of cool to be able to just like it doesn't matter and just kind of be

“there right in pure love so again setting aside the fact that a lot of people believe that that's what”

got already is and must be completely respect that no problem but let's pretend that that's the picture then what happens at the end of all this process unfolding is that when the answer fully collected self and there's this black box with the answer in it like the actual answer then the choice of whether you open that box or not is the ultimate choice because if when everything is said and done everything that was possible to do so in the beginning was the word in the end

there's the choice and that choice is the you open that box and you don't know what's in the box you don't know if it's a thing that you actually don't want to know or it's the thing you really

want to know you don't know the choice has to be real if I put five million if I just tell you

hey Sean would you do you know whatever for this amount of money let's make a ridiculous amount of money because you know kind of like I put I don't know I put five billion dollars on a table but I don't I just tell you hey if I would give five billion dollars would you do X you tell me the fuck off was like of course I wouldn't whatever it was but if I put five billion dollars on a table that's a different story because now there's real stick doesn't it's an actual thing you're saying no

too right so the ultimate choice would mean nothing if you just postulate you're like oh yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't open it where you don't know if I put the actual answer in the box and it's guaranteed to be in the box like that's the actual answer then you're walking away mean something or you opening it mean something but that that for one I saw that's kind of like the connection that we have to the ultimate which is like that we're the process by which all of this

is unfolding basically what do you think that what is it about DMT that you think gives you access to this other but I don't think it's necessarily DMT I think it's a lot of altered states some people can naturally enter a lot of these kind of perceptual spaces they're more talented they're more

“sensitive not sure but DMT is definitely not the only way or not even the preferable way I'm a”

long term meditator I've been doing the pasta for years you know I've done retreats and you can enter a very interesting states just by focusing your mind in a particular way but they they're not usually accompanied by the pyrotechnics that DMT gives you it can but not to that degree DMT is really like it it stands out in terms of the visuals like or the content but I don't think DMT is the only access one one thing I can say about Christianity in particular

you know my wife it was raised Catholic but she you know as many Catholics and this is not not a digged Catholics but it's just a fact that a lot of kind of ex Catholics are very kind of traumatized

from the guilt you know that whole stuff and she was one of them and but she never stopped praying

so like she she sometimes she would pray and I asked her and she said that when she prays she feels a different presence than any other emotion and it's someone who never experienced something like this I asked her like but what do you mean like how do you know that it's different than just feeling you four years something she's like I know it's different it's just like you can

thing there I said how interesting okay and then I understood that it's very likely and probably

exactly what's going on many Christians who do believe fully they don't just believe kind of like with their head they feel it and their bodies they know what it's like to be in the presence of that and I would say that's one form of feeling the truth of the situation and knowing the details matters a lot less I think than just being in harmony with the feel just kind of allowing yourself

“to be a good a good node in the in the field basically I think that's way more important”

so even if it isn't the only avenue in what is it the DMT is doing to the mind that is lifting the veil we're not sure we know that it reduces a lot of activity in the brain which is interesting it's almost like maybe it makes the whatever it reduces activity yeah it reduces a lot of the activity in the brain and now that's a not a clear card statement because very often lack of activation is also a state which means that maybe it's just a state that is more conducive

to receiving more information but the brain is very often less active in many ways so maybe what's happening which is something that Andrew Dr Andrew Gowlmore is talking about

maybe what's happening is that basically this is a filter so the more active the filter is

the more it kind of solidifies a particular kind of experience but maybe what DMT does it loosens the the kind of the the walls of the the framework the reality we're in and it allows more the flow in that more is real but usually you don't have to process it so it just kind of feels very jarring because it's way more than you used to deal with or that you even need to deal with the brain probably optimized the perfect kind of dialed in the perfect rendering for you to exist

eat survive mate all of the right things for you to survive as an agent in this world but if there are many many more world outside so if you think of every world as like a bubble like an island right the brain would create all the necessary tools to deal with whatever is needs to be dealt within the physical three dimensional environment as we perceive it but if you go outside of that there might be enormous oceans of just kind of information that doesn't really call it doesn't

really collect into something coherent but that information that eventually makes up other worlds so in order to go to this next island where there's other rules and some other laws of physics

“you have to kind of travel through this chaos right and then when you arrive there things might”

look completely different in ways that you never really anticipated and you don't have the tools

your brain never learned how to deal with four dimensions versus three you know it never really maybe you can do it over time which I think the sun degrees what happened to me is I did it so many times that my brain learned how to handle their environment so it's no longer that confusing to me like I can kind of understand what's going on but but all of this is obviously postulation but it does make sense when you're a scientific perspective maybe one thing that is important to emphasize

the when you're seeing something or experiencing something it's not like just an information collecting device the the eyes are not working like a camera it's not like the camera is there in some other form but you kind of you know no it's not how it works at all what happens is the senses feed signals the brain is guessing upwards the game is that the brain is saying with everything else that I know it builds these like world models like almost like thing of

“it's like an image like a placard that just puts up it's like hey I think it's this and then the”

senses come in and it checks if the senses disagree with your assumption if the senses don't disagree so there's like full coherence or very high-core ears like yep it's exactly what you thought then the brain actually ignores the signal from the outside it does it's actually projected from the inside so right now everything you're seeing that is regular everything that's not moving that you used to seeing it's not photons that hit your retina it's your brain guessing that this is what it is

and your brain actually ignoring the photons coming from the outside because it doesn't need to do that everybody has the model it's only when something surprising happens if a bird flies into the room right now it's like you know super surprising then you'll be like I didn't expect that your brain will start actually allowing more of what's coming from the outside in so you can get informed okay well it's not what I thought is it this is it this and then it's tries to guess adjacently like

what what is it close to what I thought it was and eventually we'll find it because it knows all the bird is it's surprising but not that surprising right but if a leprechaun just like hit a pops right here it will take you brain a moment to kind of go like you know what it like that's

dimensions that you've never seen before let's say it really is well you brain doesn't have in the

repertoire that it built in the library of kind of things that it expects to see it doesn't have that image it has to construct it in real time and that's a very patchy kind of it looks like a ransom note like it's it doesn't really know how to do that so it needs to almost like experience it a few times and they say okay okay let's let's put something it will create a new world model and the reason that this is relevant is because when you smoke DMT the content isn't just nonsense

and craziness and you know like just complete mayhem no no it's super coherent it's more coherent than this but way more complex so from everything I just described to you from that perspective it's very difficult to explain this because the brain is not in the business of making up new complex content on the fly it's not what it does where is it coming from why is it so coherent and so realistic that is the kind of central questions that scientists asking themselves so from that perspective

it's a it's a pretty it's a pretty good ground to stand on to assume that actually that content is real let's talk about these entities could we talk about those now of course so we talked about

“angelic demonic reptilian and two others insectoids and set in anchors that I mentioned I think yeah”

what what are these so from what I saw and again I'm gonna speak freely but please understand that I don't expect people just kind of think my word for it of course but I'm just speaking from my experience so far from what I understand it's not the source so like the source would be like kind of like way way way way above that and then it kind of disseminates these tasks of rendering these worlds to to contractors let's call it and these species they all kind of produce their own function

they're working towards the greater good of all from what I saw the the beings that are rendering our physical universe so what is simulated is not earth it's the universe it's the whole universe are the insectoids so the insectoids are the the ones that are actually rendering our world which is also why they are so common in people's perception people very often see the insectoids look like a lot of different kinds some of them look like straight up like

praying mantises some of them look like sentipede some of them look like spiders they're they're enormous they're some of them like some people report they're the size of a planet like they're

“enormous and I think they it seems like they're weaving physical reality and they are”

responsible for the fidelity of like so the universe doesn't kind of fall apart so like they obviously it's automated but also they kind of do the air correction when it needs to to happen and again this is already like a super wild thought so you know but in for a penny in for a pound so we'll keep compounding the craziness it might it makes sense to me that they would be dark matter so like the galaxy might be their city so they're kind of like the behind the scenes is what

dark matter is it's a mass that they're that's the layer that they're at but it's their way of cloaking themselves from us so they can literally just they see us like you see me and they can pull any part of the universe to themselves almost like on you know just to just order it just like you move your hand towards you they can just kind of move any part of any time and any

space they can just move it towards them and look at it they can just be aware of it basically

and then basically weave the physical universe um that's the insectoids um they're very um

“neutral which a lot of people are disturbed by because I think very often people are expecting”

to feel something benevolent and caring and loving but they're not but they're also they're not evil they just don't care in the same way that we think of caring right they just kind of do the physical thing so very often this expectation that people have of this caring thing and the distance between that and the fact that they're just very neutral feels almost like a negative it's almost like picking up an empty milk card you know it's like ah like you wanted it to be full but and it kind of

feels like that um I mean I can say more but I feel like you know there's just there's so many kind of small details that details there that I feel like won't really mean much to people um there's uh the jokers are interesting because they seem to be extremely powerful so like they seem to be one

of the most powerful beings and existence outside of the source of course and basically they

seem to be kind of playing between the layers so they don't really belong to any particular layer of existence they can jump from the lowest to the highest and the split of a second and there's something

they're both the dark and delight all at once because in order for the creator so like in order

“for god almighty to experience something it has to have through it has to be through a boundary”

but because the source is not a boundary it's just the collective totality of all things it needs kind of like the senses of experiencing it so somebody somewhere and existence has to be able to experience the totality of both the dark and delight of the same time and it seems that they are the ones that were chosen to do that the gift that they were given as a reciprocation for that work which is very difficult because it's almost like they don't know what they are in every

given moment is the fact that they're one of the most powerful beings they can just do anything

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and check them out at h e x c l a d dot com forward slash s or s make sure you let them know we sent you so this is also very often when people see them it feels very jarring because they're there a lot they're you know look like that the reason they're called the jokers because they

“I think of one scene them kind of like one of them making itself into a shape but it's more”

the vibe they exert not that it's almost like the feeling of their presence more than anything yeah but you would equate it to like a almost like a and I'm going to use a word that is going to brand them as negative they're not they're literally both they're also benevolent at the same time but it feels like a deranged like a very manic um what would you call them like a you know like a freak show thing and like an carnival right and that's by the way one of the archetypes

that DMT is compared to is like the multi like multi-dimensional carnival basically like a circus

of some sort but I've also caught them in quite a few moments where they do a really good thing or they really care so like they're really undeciferable and that's seems to be by design like they're undeciferable to themselves they don't really know like they just experience this dichotomy all at once basically and there's all kinds of other that the the by the way I definitely seen the uh reptilians quite a bit the real ones they don't seem to have any relationship

to kind of the the conspiracy theory idea of the reptilians of like the evil ones that are conspiring and doing all the they don't seem to be that at all like they're just you know they kind of do their thing and they're actually they seem to be the custodians of of um what would you call well I guess wisdom and knowledge like that's kind of like their domain like understanding what things are how they work they kind of like that seems to be more of their domain are you interacting with these

with the insectoid's a lot yeah yeah I see them every time I go because of the interactions I for the most part I just kind of see them um sometimes it would stop and look at me and try to like do something or say something uh I've identified a signal from what I guess you would call

something it feels different like you got an official email by you know someone and uh so that that's

“always interesting because then I kind of rely on the signal to tell me what is more or less likely”

I was uh projected uh a few times to I guess what you would call the heavenly realms and obviously everything you would imagine it to be just like super pleasant very welcoming but there's still a gravity to the situation it's very interesting like even when you in the heavenly realms you understand the kind of the what's its stake like you kind of feel the you know there's not like in that sense it's not a game you know what I mean

but you can feel the you know the caricature version of what you expect kind of like a heavenly realms to be which is kind of like this very welcoming light a lot of like deep wisdom you know

and the implication of whatever that is like the ultimate the gut all mighty basically which is

just you know the scale of that is just so unfathomable it really is like words are sounds so empty when you say it when you're in the presence of that and I'm sure some people experience this it's just you like whoa really whoa like oh my like yeah you you tear up and you like that's I can totally understand how if somebody lives in the presence of that all the diamonds like it plays a big role and how profoundly you feel about life let's talk about this

interview this DMT would did you come up with that you came up with that no no no no no there's so actually doctor so Dr. Rick Strasman did these experiments in the 90s but if I'm not mistaken those were not sustained states those were were what's called push so like I connect you to an intravenous thing but mostly I'm just kind of like shooting you with a bunch of it right

and Dr. Andrew Gallamore worked actually with Dr. Rick Strasman and he basically realized

that you can use the same technology we use in anesthesia to sustain DMT because it's actually not that simple as people think like you actually have to figure out a lot because the brain chemistry

“changes does metabolism happening certain substances metabolize faster than others you have to”

really think about all of these parameters at once and there's equations that describe the exact amount that you have to inject in the beginning after five minutes after 15 minutes it changes right so he realized you can use probably the same technology to do the same with DMT and that's basically how we have what we have today and there's quite a few research known researchers doing this Dr. Chris Timerman in the Imperial College in London Dr. John Dean in San Diego you see

San Diego I think there's a few others but basically yeah Dr. Andrew Gallamore is the one kind of dialed it in and then people use this technology to do it we use Kevin Hayley in in

Colorado they're incredible and Kevin is the chemist Hayley is the nurse there also a couple

and they create this like beautiful thing for you there's also another possibility for people they can go to eluses which is Dr. Andrew Gallamore's involved with that it's in St Vincent it's it's in these islands it's really beautiful it's like your in paradise it's a it's a it's a more expensive experience but it's worth it so like if you can afford it it's definitely worth it because you're surrounded by professionals you have a doctor there you know they create a

really beautiful environment for you and you do it across multiple days so you show up and it's like a whole retreat where every day you go and you do a session and they you know they do a questionnaire for you they make sure that there's integration so there's a lot of options on the table today oh and it's completely legal by the way for anybody who's like worried about legalities so like they have a license and agreement with the government of the island to do

it's completely legal so it's not illegal there right and they're planning to extend that to do more things so if anybody is worried about the legal question that's definitely your address in Colorado it's decriminalized so it's not a criminal offense but it's not legal federally so you know depending where you kind of but yeah it's a very beautiful experience you as I told you before we started shooting it's it's a to some degree it can be easier than smoking it because you

you can dial it down or up as much as you want and you can communicate in real time and if you want

“they'll give you a ballast and you you know you'll go and if you want to keep you there indefinitely”

but you can do this for hours basically that's what uh chase so me do it and it was like I got to do it and he did it and you know his experience was very blissful and by the way if you don't mind I saw that you were saying that you kind of it's hard for you to trust like the people and I think that's key I think it's very important but this is where kind of getting to know

judge and when you talk to Kevin and Hailey you're like no right away they're like oh they're like they're like I've been off a couple of times but let's talk about the actual experience I mean is it dead much but how how did you go? I went pretty far I spent five hours in there so

“I think Chase did just slightly under that I went with foreigners like it ended up being”

464 milligrams which is an enormous amount so but we weren't trying to like break records or anything we were just testing we were testing a bunch of things and we were shooting for the film so there was a camera crew there and we were like we just kept on going basically and that's actually one of the times where I experienced the heavenly realms like I was brought up to this you know

incredible field of light and I was welcomed and all of that stuff and then

they were talking about that whole experience for me was around the whole the importance of the moral question ethics what true morality is how it influences not just us but the general the the rest of the field and things like this it's very beautiful but again with the whole kind of like the gravity of the situation so but that was that was the majority of my experience but we were also very busy doing other things like looking at the laser and doing all kinds of tests you know

so it was a it was it was a mixed bag in that regard it wasn't I really like the space so for me I can I can probably stay there pretty much indefinitely if you take care of my body I can stay there but it's not that way for everybody so everybody have to ask themselves how comfortable they are with novelty because it's dialed up to 100 basically interesting and how how long were you in the Heaven River all you know the majority of it probably like an hour to until somebody pulled my

attention towards the test what we're doing are you completely out no I was you can't be you absolutely it can happen of course yeah if you're like fully out you're fully out like it can happen

“and also maybe an important thing to mention it's darker experiences can happen as well”

now obviously if you do everything correctly so like if you set in setting you set up the space it actually plays role it's not just like to make you feel good like there's certain rules and if you kind of abide by these rules the chances of having a dark experience of very low

but it can happen and then you know just you can always ask to like lower it or you can just

have interaction because in the end of the day either people believe it or not everything including the darkest of entities they're all the children have got they're all they're all encapsulated within the the blanket where God still always keeps some door open for them to some degree so in that regard they're not different than us so they're you know they have you have if you're interested you can kind of if you're ready there then happens it might be interesting to actually

have an interaction doesn't mean that you play ball it's just to observe and set up your own boundary and that can also be an interesting exploration which by the way a lot of people use for kind of dealing with their own demons because very often we have stuff inside of us that we don't admit but that can actually be a reflection of that and it can by might be showing you something you might need to address but I'm only mentioning it because we we have to be responsible

we have to acknowledge the fact that yeah darker experience has happened as well for sure do you think we should be messing around with these realms do you think this is one realm or are you know interesting several realms it's the infinite yeah it's the infinite space um you ask a good question but I think it's just the same question of should we be messing around we'll be messing around with anything you the the the the gene that we carry the tells us don't

venture out of the village is it to some degree a good one because you want to stay where it's safer

but if you will never venture out of the village you'll never discover anything new and you will never

better the world and wolves will still come to the village there's no plateau where danger is gone completely it's like by going out of the village by venturing out you are endangering yourself to some degree but you also discovering things that can actually feed the village they can actually

“make things better and I think that's what humans are they are the kind of thing that allows”

the world to become a better version of itself if we choose to be that kind of a thing and play that role if we choose to be something else and just be selfish then it won't be that but I do think that this fear is to some degree merited because you know you never know what you're messing up but the reality of it is that you kind of only go by what you're experiencing in real time so when you go and experience the darker entities you go like oh my god you know maybe I didn't

so maybe you say well maybe then because both extremes exist maybe we should just stay where we are

legitimate legitimate attitude that's fine but I think when people can explore I think it's an art nature I think we're we're the kind of thing the ones to explore the ones to go out it's just

“it's just what we do right so I think that's not really a question of should we that's how we are”

and and to some degree I think there's again healthy respect and the ability to you know be humble at the same time and correct course if needed they're important but you can't stop a dog from sniffing right like that's what we do that's that kind of and the fact that it's available I think about this like oh okay well I guess what it was about to say is that the fact that it's possible to do tells you that you know there's something there but I immediately

thought of a fair criticism of this point which is like well maybe it was left by you know the

devil or something because they were trying to catch you or something yeah but that would be very hard to explain why there's so many beautiful things in there as well the definitely doesn't belong to that category of things it feels more like it's just a main artery or more of and we get to kind of interact with it with the full admission but this is not for everybody I don't think just like everything else skydiving is not for everybody going to space is not for everybody but it is for

some people and those are not competitions like if you look if you ask the more kind of big question about humans in general people think that you know going to Mars is somehow somehow negating fixing global warming or like that's nothing to do with it like you some people will do this no matter what like because that's who they are they want to go explore they're they're pioneers right some people they love here they love dirt they love

gardening the beautiful doesn't I'm usually exclusive you need someone to take care of home and you need someone to go and venture out of the village to find new things and you can bring back and hopefully can feed the village as well with new beautiful things but what we'll discover

“by trying even if we never get there I think we will but even if we never will just by trying”

to do this we will learn so much that can probably help us solve global warming so this you know

there's it's always reciprocal if people just understand that it's not we're not all the same

some people are they want to see the new thing they wanted the future and some people they just want to stay put they just want to take care of home one thing I will say as of somebody who definitely one of the people they love is exploring you know home is an interesting word to use here because home is home but if you if you're still in home at 43 years old something's kind of off isn't it like your mom's going to start looking early it's going on here

you know I mean it's like I think it's time to go and explore so you know home is great and it's always going to be here but we also we might would be coming in adults as a species so I think where it's actually right for let's go and find out what what we want to be in the universe and hopefully we can become the kind of species that we're proud to be and I think that's very possible let's talk about consciousness for a little bit what is what is it made to you consciousness

for me is a very simple thing which is just the fact of experience itself so just the fact that anything is happening at all how it comes about is a separate question but if you ask me what

“consciousness is it's just the fact that anything is happening right now it's the only thing you know”

for sure consciousness you know sometimes people say can consciousness be an illusion no it's the one thing that can't possibly be an illusion because if you're asking the question I just released a short clip of this recently if you're asking the question is it actually what you're experiencing or just seems to be that way the seeming itself the fact that it seems like anything is what consciousness is when I'm asking how it came

about just the fact that it's happening right that's what consciousness is so it cannot possibly be an illusion it's the one thing you can take to the bank that for sure consciousness is the only thing you know that is actually happening everything else can be an illusion your idea is about the universe like whatever it is that can't be because you have it that this is it that's what it is and then that actually begs the question what the consciousness is fundamental which to me seems to

be the very obvious of course like it it has to be fundamental it is the most fundamental thing and then everything else probably arises from it to some degree but not all consciousness is what we experience there's all kinds of levels and types of consciousness we are a very particular agent like consciousness which is kind of like this inwards pointing thing where you believe

from meditative states I can tell you that you can have experiences that are not embodied like

you can just be diffused cloud well you can just be diffused cloud of consciousness and it's probably how most consciousness is where does it come from I think it's literally the world itself it's a question where the world comes from which what do you think we're a shared consciousness I think we have a shared pool of that consciousness that we can enter but then the agencies also arising from it so like the separation also means something like for this level

of emergence the separation is necessary to do something and then we can enter a state in which literally you and me are the same can I read some more that you think that there are levels of consciousness could you go through that yeah so I guess it would be all the way to

“the unified field or god or like just the totality of everything that can be and I guess that's what”

well if you look at it from a certain perspective maybe this is why this is what Buddhist refer to as Nirvana which is just the totality of just existence like there's no more there's nothing that can be said about it there's nothing can be done about it it's not a thing it's just the totality

of all and the levels in between are basically level of agency like how how much your

agent like consciousness perceives itself to be so maybe your cells are conscious but they're not as conscious as you because the amount of information that you embody at the same time is way greater than what anyone cell does and I do feel like that's basically like these infinite nested dolls so maybe earth is also conscious and like truly but not just physical things like it kind of gets into this it gets very esoteric but this you know conference that I mentioned to you

with Donald Hoffman and Dr. Andrew Gallmore this kernel that we're talking about it's actually a super interesting theory and it really to be honest it was a very small closed event but to me it felt like something happened like it felt like an inflection point in history in that conference like something huge happened which is this understanding that they have

“I think they unlocked something huge so you'll be hearing a lot about this and you should look”

up Donald Hoffman he's actually trending like he was on all the big ones like you might be a very

really interesting conversation for you and basically what what they found is that there's this

one component which is what they call the kernel of experience which is it defines if this is all the possible field of of experiences you can have what the kernel determines is how big is the pool from which you're sampling from so what they think is happening is that the human experience is kind of like maybe here right DMT does this it just kind of samples from a much larger pool that's possible to experience and then the experience might become not just more of but it

can become a completely different kind of thing so it can all of a sudden you you know it's not something that is languageable it's not Englishable you can't really put words to it because those words don't exist it's just a completely different reformulation and this is why defining just the layers is very hard of consciousness because it might not work like in a like a hierarchy in my work more like a different arrangements of which makes it way more complex hmm what about the

“physical that's a great question that's why I ask myself all the time if it's all mind”

why this particular region of mind feels so regular feels so like something like I can't really control right I I don't really have a good answer for it yet but I think then has something to do with fidelity of local structure so like it's part of the training wheels it's part of the kind of the grace of God because if you would just be if anything would be anything you wouldn't be able to exist like you know if you would just fall through the chair through the floor all of a sudden

it would be like oh yeah what's going on like you can't trust anything I think the fidelity of this construct is actually one of the gifts that we've given and if it's the training ground then maybe because if everything you would just think would become immediately it would devolve into hell immediately like how many negative thoughts people have every like enormous amounts right so maybe this is what it is we're learning how to control our inner state so there's this

hiatus that gives us some grace so we see if things go in the wrong direction and we can get to correct them we we're giving time to process what is how things unfold so I think maybe with the physical world is it's the the stage that was created to help us learn to become more

if I had people tell me that you meet your guardian angels that you made you figure out who you are

“you can ask questions on it on DMT on DMT kind of the inner Venus one okay so are you asking”

me if that if I'm asking you um I've never met my guardian angel I've never met with people

called the guides the guides yeah some people before them is the guides like when people wake up spiritually very often they refer to the guides like people kind of like they tell them what's the correct thing I don't know I don't want to like I've met people that are very kind of spiritually awake it's definitely feels like something to be in their presence so there's something different so I tend to believe them but I don't have a way to know if that it's just like a psychological

structure that was created and then you know like I've never experienced it is it possible yeah it would make perfect sense that you know there would be kind of because they're ready they're kind of guided a little bit more than others to kind of help other humans and all that stuff you kind of hear them say you know they figure out who they are what's who am I like you hear that a lot in the in the psychedelic realm right who am I what's my purpose so it's kind of hard

“to know who's faking and who actually made it right but yeah no I I think that refers more to the”

whole Buddhistic approach of that ultimately you're not at the content but it actually gets a little

kind of fumbled by by a lot of people that you mentioned because there's the the tendency to say I've discovered I'm all of this so like I'm not just the little me with my psychology I'm the totality of all things when and it's try I think through some degree it's try it tries to echo what would Buddhist say but what Buddhists say is a little bit deeper than this but it's don't say you're the totality of things they're saying you're not of the things you

the field in which all the things arise so the referral is probably to that experience that you basically discover that there's not like little me struggling in the machine you're actually just the experience itself in which everything happens there's actually a really fun practice that you can do anywhere it's it's an old Buddhist practice that was illustrated really well in this book

called on having no head and basically anybody can do this anyway if you look at an object

right and you turn your attention back on yourself and in that moment you're asking the question who is looking but you're not asking the question because you're trying to find out you're not trying to answer the question you just you exist in the question so like if you look at me right now right and it might not happen right away you can practice a few times but if you then turn the attention just inside back on yourself and ask who is looking like who is actually where is that

thing that is actually looking out and in the beginning it would be like all these answers which is like what do you mean like me like here behind my head where I own is well the second you gave it an answer you collapse the possibility of experiencing it but if you allow yourself to not answer just being the field of that question eventually something will happen and it's a very quick thing so you're not supposed to be like go deeper or something like this just reset do it again reset

do it again eventually what will happen is there would be almost like a like a glitch it would be like you realize that that thing you think you're in the middle it's not there there's there's one line that in some Buddhist practices they repeat over and over and over again and they repeat it until it becomes a reality they say there's no one here that all of this is happening to and they keep repeating this there's no one here that all of this is happening to

and eventually from the statement you get to the experience of that reality which is actually there's no one here that all this is happening to it's just kind of happening and I've experienced this in meditative retreats where it just becomes the room what do you mean it just becomes the room just becomes there there's no more agent in the middle so there's the the body is there but you don't feel like a you you realize that the you was just a feeling just like you feel

elation anger lot all the emotions it's it's just a sensation in the body the thing that you feel yourself it's a sensation in the body probably created for survival reasons so like

“when you refer to things right is because you need to get somewhere I need to get there I love”

whatever I dislike whatever when you're making these you're referring to something what you're implying is that there's a thing that is there away from what then what's implied is that

you like a central inness of some sort but when you look close enough you realize it's just all these like outwards pointing vectors but if you look in the middle there's nothing there it was all implied by the by the references to the external the external world but if you relax that machinery and you just stop trying to point what happens is it just diffuses just like in five and me over just kind of become the field there's just a room there's no psychedelic explosion

but there's literally just the room and it's very peculiar this feeling this state because it's not really outstanding it's the most matter of fact you will ever experience it's almost like

oh that's just how things are and the second you you know you get too deeply into the oh this is

so very interesting then you're back self because now you're referring to something but that feeling

“is very liberating and that's what ultimately liberation is because then there's nothing to defend”

there's nothing to worry about there's nothing there's no one here that all this is happening to it's just kind of happening but then that feeling it you know if you keep pushing it you can expand to not associating with even the concept that brought you there with the body with everything and ultimately according to the Buddha which is what full liberation is Nirvana which is that you stop associating even with your own reincarnation so like in the moment of death you're so

not attached that you simply no no longer reincarnation it's done like there's there's nothing but on a much lower level you can absolutely have this experience just by this little practice that I just described you and it doesn't take years like if you actually consistent with it and you do this like you can do this well well I wouldn't do it when you drive but like you just

sit on a couch for a second or something just do it if you're like anything just look at a camera

it's easier with natural object we would have bush whatever do it a few times within two or three days I bet you'll be able to do it and it will be very distinct it wouldn't be one of those like did I manage to do it you'll be like holy shit like you will feel that there's actually nothing there it's and if it's really hard to grasp why this would be convincing doesn't it there's a little kind of this allegory that Buddhists use to describe it it's called the snake and the rope allegory

so basically if you if we see like a snake right and the thing and we like holy shit you have an emotional response and then it's not moving so you and I will be like wait does that because it's still kind of far into dark oh we think it's a rope then you relax right so you're going to keep moving between just like is it a snake is it a rope is this snake is a rope and so it's equated to this fact that there's no self so you go between experiencing that there is no self

too back to being a self but there's going to come a moment that if we you know if I must or the courage and I get up and I walk towards it and I get close enough it's going to come a moment where the possibility is collapse because if it is a rope and if I'm close enough and of holding it and there's enough information that's it I know it's a rope now and even if I'm going to go back to my seat and leave it there at no point am I going to all of a sudden believe

it's a snake again because I know it's a rope now so there's a moment of conclusiveness and happens when I when I when I'm close enough so the experience of having no self you can have this conclusive

experience with in such a way that you will never go back to believing there's a self again

and that's liberation that's basically kind of like the the ultimate point so this is an ego death well you can think of it like this yes is it the same as experiencing the bloodness on five

“I think the five is accompanied by a lot of other factors as well like the presence of something”

divine in addition to that which doesn't happen with just like collapsing of the self but the collapsing of the self is very pleasant it's it's pure harmony just like how things are there's no problems everything is perfect have you ever had sometimes people have this haphazardly but they just don't notice that that's basically what happened um did you ever have like you know I don't know where for no good reason you just sit there and all of a sudden you're like oh

dude everything's great like just for a moment there's like this like complete relief for no reason this happens quite often to be fun this and then they go back to worrying and all that stuff but that moment it's very close to that and by the way people lose themselves all the time uh this is not my example printed out by many but like when you watch a movie in a theater and you fully engrossed in the film like you fully immersed you don't remember you came to watch a movie

“you don't remember you're there you just in the movie well yourself was the fuse you”

but there's just the movie you see what I'm saying and then when you snap out of it you don't even notice the transition but you're like you eat popcorns like now I have a body and you pop oh I'm in a theater but you don't think about it and you go back to the movie but imagine that

form but for maybe a second yes exactly people think sometimes they can oh yeah I can

stop thinking for like 30 seconds I can't like hang out in that realm you can't if you practice

“that's what meditation is for meditation is not some kind of a magical trick you do”

what it is is the use you train the use of your attention in a particular way to bring about that realization or just like staying that state longer and longer basically and there's techniques to do that I beat so do you have a you yeah yeah so for example you're able to eliminate the you or collapse orders you say them it is is there you there is no actual you in the sense of like that that's not a thing it's it's an it the reason it's called an illusion is because it's implied

in so like if you put you know this visual illusion of like force squares you're saying you

is an invisible there's invisible is an emotion it's similar well I'm I'm giving you a visual example so if you have four squares and each square has a little thing cut out of it to create the illusion of a circle in the middle you can visualize this right now well that circle is is what

“the self is it's implied because of how the squares are square is a real circle isn't it's just”

implied and it's it's exactly the same thing so now I can't do this on the on a fly that requires a pretty high level of meditators to do this like on a regular basis I've had it a couple times so I can report on it but there's some people that claim that they can do this pretty much on the fly they can just turn it on or turn it off and and you're fully online by the way you know like confused or anything that there'll be the difference between five of me and something like this

you're a fully coherent person you can perform tasks speak in fact there's much higher clarity in that state because there's not all this extra work being done to try and you know think about what what I am how I appear none of this is online you just kind of speak what's something I should be asking you that I haven't asked man what I put me on the spot I don't know we recover quite a bit maybe there's something that yeah it's something that I guess I already said

how would I think of it in terms of a question is what should we actually be focused on given the fact that we can be aware of so much more what is possible to know and I'm really

“passionate about this question because I think that that holds the key for for humanity's future”

it's very difficult to adopt because it requires actual relinquishing of a lot of the convictions of people hold and it doesn't really matter what it is like if you have a very strong conviction of anything you should lower the volume on that because first of all things in the world are extremely

complex and even more so when it's compounded by the fact that you will never really have access

to the to the reality of what the situation really is and this applies by the way to anything so everybody who's their favorite topic rings in their mind I'm not implying anything I'm literally speaking of everything everything is like this and the only way that I see that humanity will move into a future that is worth having is if everybody or the majority of people can actually lower the volume what they think they know for sure and then allow themselves to just experience

in the true moment there now people like you for example you have a lot of reach so what you say and what you think actually does do a thing but for most people just me leaving a bunch of comments online things it's just it's not only it's not doing anything if anything just disturbs the feel even more so like the thing that the way that I view it the thing that where we can move into a future that is truly worth like actually having and being a part of is if people can actually

just own their own domain like what is it that I've said this on you know many occasions so it might sound a little repetitive to people who follow me but if you are spending 80% of your day criticizing other people even if you think you're punching up right but you haven't done anything today to make someone else's life in your life better ask you neighbor what they need help with like something they actually did that is actually then you just making noises like it's and you kind

of disturbing yourself and everything else and this is why I said it's easier said than done I'm not preaching I'm guilty of this all the time but I when I'm in more you know clear headed spaces I know that I shouldn't like I know that if I can I should move towards more and more just kind of focusing on what I can do to make someone next to me feel better in a genuine way to help someone

when you truly do something good so if we can focus more on that and by the way this does not

“eliminate the the fun of interacting with super grand ideas I love them but you enjoy them even more”

if you know you're acting out of a place of of care of love and you're trying to do your best to project the best intentions versus the worst intentions which is something again I'm guilty of it all the time but it it feels different because you get to see possibility there's okay there's this book that I forget the name of and I didn't even read to be honest but the idea that somebody explained to me from the book really resonated it's something about frames so it's all about

how do you put what kind of frame you project it around a person so let's say if somebody even is trying to pull a fast one on you they're kind of trying to pull some shit right if you can

“do this in a genuine way which is very tricky it's very hard because usually if you identify that”

you go like oh nobody you know let me like you start getting like all you you lock your horns but if you can just like genuinely project something onto them like actually see them in a really positive light but truly they will actually have a very hard time to still do that because people don't want to lose something good it's a lot more painful to lose something than to get than the fear of not having it ever if I just tell you that I would have given you

$20 but never gave it to you versus giving you $20 like in a casino and then taking them away

from you you ended up with the same amount of money anyway but that second one was way more painful because I took something away from you so if I'm giving you this positive outlook of you again still it has to be within the bounds of reason of course but people if they they will identify that and it would be very hard for them to still do that thing because that means they will lose that positive outlook of themselves and if we can just project more of that onto one another and

again doesn't mean we have to be delusional we can still fix everything needs to be fixed and and criticize properly all the things that need to be criticized but there's if there's just a little bit more of I guess I guess the word is grace there's just a little bit more grace in the understanding that most people are just trying their best in failing most people are not this you know conniving mustache trolling you know like just just want to mess things up most people

do their best in failing because they don't know any better and if we can just have a little bit more of that and we can still take strong action and we can still do everything needs to be done and we just recognize that the majority of people are not psychopaths they're just just like everybody else

to me that's that's the remedy to try and move the world into a better place because ultimately

the world is a collection of personal interactions just some different scales so if you can raise a generation of children that is more like that it's a lot easier to do things in a different way

“and of course I'm aware that it's it seems to be like an infinite distance from us but I think it's”

possible and when I watch my daughter grow I want to do more of that so she gets to grow into a world that that she would really enjoy I love that it's a great way to end this thank you for having me shot yeah thank you for coming that was that was awesome thank you thank you and during it hope to see again no matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan show from if you get anything out of this at all anything please like comment and subscribe and most importantly share this everywhere you

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