Bozoma Saint John On How To Build Unshakable Confidence, Lead with Power & Advocate For Your Worth

- What a great guest to sort of kick off our show with, okay? Welcome Bostate John to the Bostics.

Damn, this woman has got it going on. Let me tell you, I was so lit up in this interview, I was harassing her to come back for part two at the end. Get out your notebook. You will want to take notes in this one. Bostate John is a business woman. She's an entrepreneur. She's an author. She also is on the real housewives of Beverly Hills. However, she knows her way around the boardroom. She will blow you away about how to advocate for your worth and teach you how to build unshakenable confidence. This episode inspired me beyond Bostics.

- One of the most depressing moments of the pandemic was for me, so we were starting the companies. We were going and we had a lot of new team members working these corporate environments. And we wanted to build a culture, and so we would do the company happy hours. - It's too much. - I know. I did that too, by the way. It was awful. - What I realized is even though you were on a screen talk, because I mean, you were essentially drinking alone, you were just drinking alone.

- Oh, no, we were recording. - Yeah, we were pretending to be right into it. - I don't believe in that. - So cover, no, we can leave it in, go ahead and leave it in. - But I can't, I remember like, people were telling me Roman Coke and then one of the clothes. - Like, toasting to each other. - And I remember I was just hanging up the comic man. This is different. - It was awful. I was the CM of Netflix at that time, and I would have my global town halls, and I couldn't see anybody.

It was like, I was just staying at the little brain dot on my laptop, and, you know, like, I'm the type of person who needs other people's energy.

“You know what I mean? In order to feel like, is my message landing? Like, do people understand what I'm saying? Is it funny? Are you inspired? Do you feel this is serious?”

- Nothing. - What was it like being the CM of Netflix? That's a huge title. - Oh, is it like, oh, gosh, what was it like? I don't know how I answer that. It's like, it's, um, I think every job, every CM will job is a big job. - Yeah. - Especially if you're, you know, Fortune 50. I mean, it's, these are big jobs. You've got boards, you've got Wall Street. You know, you've got people to report to, and so it feels like a lot of pressure. I don't know how else to say it. You know, it's like, every day, there is no small decision.

- What's the pressure between that and housewife? Because I imagine there's some similar something. - For this is a cakewalk. - It's a cakewalk. - Really? - Yeah. - The girl strips? - The girl strips? - Girl, please. It's a cakewalk. - Look, the kind of shark and festive waters I've swam in, or this is nothing in comparison. Like, we have people who are crying because somebody said a harsh word to them.

I'm like, if you'd been talked to the way I've been talked to my career, you would never have made it.

- I like to watch your reactions for some of the scenes. - Yeah. - I'm a huge connoisseur of housewives. - Oh. - And your reactions kind of like narrate, yes. - Like when someone was called a whimp. - I mean, look, I don't have a poker face. And you would think that after having a 25 year career in corporate, I would have more poker face and I just don't. - We don't want you to have a poker face though. Please don't. Please don't. - No. I don't know how. You know what I'm saying? I'm just gonna react. - And you've had such an extensive career, which we want to dive into.

“I think there's a ton of benefit for the people listening and watching to just learn more about what you've done.”

But imagine being in that environment for so long, you just don't have time for the BS. - Oh, no exactly. - Cut to the chase. You know, and also, I think part of the challenge that I have with housewives is that nobody is solution oriented. - Right. - Right. - Right. - You're not in a disagreement to find a solution. Yet a disagreement to just be mad. And I have a hard time with that because obviously given my experience, it's like if you don't find a solution that costs money. - So in an example of a solution that you had, where there was a conflict, where you were experiencing everything.

- And the soda. Are you crazy? Every time. What do we call racism? - But when in the episode, if we just followed your, wouldn't it be like five minutes ago? - It would be a terrible show.

- Yeah. - You gotta let the drama play out. I learned that actually pretty quickly in my first season,

“because there was a situation pretty early on with Sutton when I said that she was weaponizing and experienced to basically get out one of the others, right?”

And she was offended by my use of the word weaponizing, because she was like, "I'm not weaponizing anything." So she, you know, came to me at an event, which in I think typical housewife fashion, it would have turned into a bigger thing.

- You know what I mean? You want me to say? Like, "Okay, you didn't like it." And what? What do you want me to do about that? You know, and it just, she kind of just turned around and walked away. And it was one of those situations where you're just like, "Hmm, I guess I need to play out a little bit more." - You know what I mean? - I probably got to learn the game. It's definitely a game. It's a formula. - I mean, it is a formula because what people want to see is the, and now I know, they want to see the whole resolution.

If there is a resolution. - Yep, we want to see the content. - I want to see the, like, I keep saying it's like my high school math teacher who was like, you take a test. Don't just write the answer down. I want to see your work, right? You got to break down. Yeah, the formula so that I know that you know the math. And that's, I believe, the formula that people want to see on this show. They want to see all of the bits that go into the disagreement into the resolution. If there is one or the branches that break off because of set resolution.

- Yeah, no, that is exactly what we want to see. We want to see your processes. We want to see the comments. We want to see the narratives behind each person. - Yeah.

- You had a really, in my opinion, an amazing first season for a housewife. You're having a good season still right now too.

- Yeah. - So is Rachel's, though, I think she's having a great show. - Oh, great show. - People are just, they allude housewife. - Yeah. - And then when you guys, when a person who comes on that doesn't allude that, it can stand out. Like a sore thumb girl. Yeah. Like a bad apple. Like a worm and said apple. So we keep going. - Yeah.

“- I want to go. - It's just, it, you have to, it's an appointment.”

- It's like a, yeah, it's nice. - Yes, yes, yes. - Yes, yes. You got to have your style. - There's a certain, you know, there's a certain, that's a confidence. - Yep. - That comes with being in space and say, okay, you know what? - I belong in this group, even if I don't like everybody. I belong here. And maybe to your point, it is one of the areas where my corporate experience has translated, right?

- Yeah. - Because you cannot walk into any boardroom thinking you don't belong there. - You will fail immediately. - You also, I want you to elaborate on that. - You've got to keep up Michael, you've got to elaborate on that. - But I want you to elaborate on that. - You can't fake the energy either. - No, you have to be authentic. - Yes, yes, yes, yes, it's the same thing. It's like my ability to walk into a room and assess it and either shift it or go along and listen is based on my belief.

My core belief that I belong in the room. - How much of that is natural and how much of that is learned.

“- Oh, a lot of it is learned. I think a lot of it is learned. - How does you teach someone that doesn't know how to walk into a room and feel like they belong?”

- Well, there's a lot of different elements. One, you know, I do think that this is going to sound corny to say, but we all have a unique talent or unique perspective or something that we can offer. And many people don't believe that of themselves. That's the first issue, which is like, what is it that you actually bring? So let's say you were at a cocktail party. Take it out of a boardroom, take it out of being on TV. You go to a cocktail party and you see a group of people standing there and somebody invites you into the conversation.

What are you going to talk about? You know what I'm saying? Like, what is your thing that you're contributing? Is it you're from Wichita and that's an interesting thing because you happen to be in LA and everybody's an LA native. - Great, fantastic. Talk about that. You know, do you happen to so like self-taught? Beautiful. Talk about that.

I think people always think that your unique characteristic needs to be like some higher than God type of talent.

And that's the only that gives you value. And so my point is that like, we all have some value. We all have something that makes you different in the group and therefore that's your contribution.

“And if you are confident in that and you live honestly in that, you're winning.”

So you would tell them to come with something interesting that makes them unique. - Yes, that's them. - That's them. - Yeah. - What are other? I feel like you're so powerful when you speak. What are other little tangible tips that you can give to our audience to light up a room? - Yes, okay. So first thing, and this I learned also because my family is originally from Ghana.

We lived a lot of places when I was little, but we finally settled in Cardiff Springs, Colorado when I was 12.

One of the biggest things that of course now I can articulate that I couldn't when I was 12 is that I was very othered, right? Because everybody else in the Springs is from Springs. Even military families who move in and out felt very much connected to that place, right? I was coming from a place that people were like, I'm sorry, where is that? And do you wear clothes there? - And what is your money? - Why did your family choose Colorado Springs of all places? - My dad, you know, nor at his base there, and he did not a lot of, like, sub-Saharan African conflict politics, you know, so anyway, there was so much that made me other, that in order to survive, I had to find the commonality with people, right?

topping the billboard charts and understand the lyrics and sing the lyrics when it came to the, when he went to the party, you know what I'm saying?

“I had to dress the part because I needed to understand the fashion of the time. Slout socks, you need to be three not two, you know what I'm saying?”

Like, you needed, I needed all of the information about pop culture, and it is the way in which we connect now, that allows you to have commonality with people and therefore make friends immediately. So the same happens in the boardroom, you walk in, and there's a bunch of people there who may not know you, or maybe know you lightly. And the point is that you were trying to find points of connection, even if you're other, even if you feel like, oh my gosh, like, none of these things are like me. Your point is that you're finding a similarity somewhere, and it is not going to make you feel like you are a stranger and alien, because you're finding something that connects you to somebody else.

You walk into the boardroom, and there is, there is 12 men, and you walk in as you. Yeah. Explain that. What does that look like?

Well, I think, I mean, first of all, that has happened my entire career, right?

The sharp and twisted waters. Yes, it's nothing new. Okay. And often I find that they are more curious about me than I am of them, which means that I've just got to answer that, right? I've got to feed that curiosity.

And so, and most of the time, it's like what you would consider superficial things. I'm certainly not dressing like them, right? I'm probably not using references like they use. And so if I make a reference to something in culture that they are not familiar with, then I try to make it similar to something that they know. Or, it's like, you know, if do they have kids?

You know, we all like talk about our children. Yeah. You know, like we just sat, we started talking about our kids, or you started telling about your first. And I'm like, oh, I can identify, and I'm nodding at you and empathizing and you can feel my empathy. Yeah.

You know, it's a human sphere. Yes. And so, we do not come from the same place. We probably could not be more different in our experiences in life. And in our anatomy, but yet, there's a connection to empathy when you were talking about your six year old and hard not wanting to go to school. Because I have a 16 year old, and I remember those days. And so when I'm looking at you, even without communicating that you can feel that I have empathy about that situation.

And so it's the same thing in every room that you walk into.

There's always a human connection.

I think that if you don't want that or you don't expect that, then that's when the walls come up and you can't bring them down. It's essentially what we're trying to do on this show for the last decade is like, to your point, we meet so many people that are so different than us of such different backgrounds. Yeah. But what you're doing in interaction like this is you're finding that common thread. And then pulling out what the rest of the humans that are listening can experience as well.

What's the takeaway? So we are interested in talking to people that have different experiences that they can share with people so that those people can enhance their lives. Or fun to communicate, or some relief or whatever it may be. And also there's actually big interest in difference too. You know, I mean, especially now.

Oh, I would be able to quit a lot of time ago.

Everyone we talked to was the same thing.

Oh my god, can you imagine?

“I mean, and that's what I find distressing about this particular time, you know, especially in the US, where there's so much angst about difference.”

Where I'm like, but guys, like it doesn't have to be a bad thing. You know, it's like we would stop just focusing on the fact that like because you're different, you have different point to view different understanding of the world that somehow we cannot connect or we can't get along. We need you to be the CMO of the country. You know, girl. You got time.

I know, right. Let me see. Let me see my calendar. Let's see if I could, you know, let me put me in it to be honest. I was in Jimmy.

I mean, he's in a little country. He's a strategy. Could use a little push. If someone's listening right now, and they want tools to be more confident, and we talked about walking in the room, which is generally more confident. I feel like you will lude that on the show and in your past career.

Yeah. What would you tell them? Yeah, you know, this ties to what I was just talking about about like our uniqueness and the things that we bring.

“Like there really isn't a room I walk into that I think I can't contribute to.”

Great. You know, it's like because there's great. There is there is something everybody has something like you walk into the room and actually I'll make it like science. Okay, physics. There's matter. When it's a matter like your drink.

Okay. If you take one molecule out of the matter, take one drop out of the matter, the matter changes. You add another drop of something else into the matter and the matter changes. We are like that. So you walk into a room.

It is matter.

It is markedly different because you entered it.

Why would you not stand in that? Why would you not be inspired by that? The room was different because you weren't in there.

“And I believe that fundamentally and I believe that for everybody.”

The cast of the Real Housewives Beverly Hills was different before Amanda and Rachel showed up. Yeah. And it will be different when somebody leaves. Who's leaving? I didn't say that now.

Okay, I don't try to cast it. But the show will be different. Try to cast it. I didn't try to say that but I'm saying it. It will be different.

Don't take out. You and Kathy Hilton. Kathy Hilton. Don't take out. I love that woman so much.

She has. She's so wonderful. You got to sprinkle a little dirt. You know, an activated dirt. I don't like to read before.

I only know the activated version. So she's spicy. Oh, she's super spicy. I love it. She's stepping into her power.

I love a spicy woman. I like you. You're a friendship with her. Yeah. You have a friendship.

Yeah. And you know what's so funny about that is that I told her this. So this is nothing new. Or when she hears this, she won't be like, oh my god. But I don't know if we would've been friends if we met five years ago.

Why? Well, because life was different. You know, she was in different space. And I was in a different space.

But now we are at a moment where like literally the first moment we met.

We were already like trauma dumping on each other. You know what I'm saying? It was like she was like, I'm separated. I'm going through divorce. I was like, girl, my husband died.

You know what I mean? It was like we could connect on loss and a change in life as you knew it. And so I had immense empathy for the situation she was in.

“Where is some of the other women couldn't really identify?”

Why did you decide to open up about something so personal? Was that a conscious decision? No, I think it was an emotional decision. I could feel that she needed it. You know, she needed to know that somebody else had had the rug pulled from under them.

When you opened up about your husband, did you get an influx of GMs? I can imagine. Oh, yes. People were so. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Oh, my gosh. Yes, so many people. I mean, the thing is that it's not a club anybody wants to be a part of. You don't want to be a widow. Yeah.

You didn't sign up for that. It's a very strange place to be because there's so much shame attached to it. Why? Which is weird. Well, I think because people feel like, and I don't think it's a new thing.

I think it's actually a centuries old behavior that it has been passed out in time. You know, because back in the day, widows were shunned. You know, we're like absorbed into into the family and like shut away. You're only supposed to wear black for the rest of your life.

“And so this is a new phenomenon for women to be out, you know?”

And think about the, I'll put like imagine if Vanessa Bryant started dating somebody. People would be after her. That's her. That's Kobe's widow. You can't touch her.

You know that you got it. You got to leave her alone. I saw the other day twitch. His wife is engaged, I think. And the amount of vitro that has come her way now.

I don't know the woman. I don't know what their relationship was like. I don't know. But all I know is that there's a widow who's been, who's found love again. Why would you hate her for that?

You know? I had, and so there's a lot of that. Yeah, right. And so there's, there's like a, a shroud that you wear. And so it's a prime thing where people, yeah.

Yeah. And so it opened up the door when I'm standing tall. And being able to express that I'm a widow and I'm still living my life. I still love my life. I've come a long way now, Lord have mercy.

But I've, I'm loving life and I love every day that I'm here. And so, and I don't, I don't need to be ashamed of that. I don't need to hide it. I don't need to cry every day in order to honor my dead husband. You know what I'm saying?

That like there's that kind of shame that society puts on you.

The women in my DMs and some men in my DMs have been amazing in, you know, sort of forming a community of support.

What a beautiful example, too, to set for your daughter. Oh, yeah. To show your daughter, like it's almost like you rose like a Phoenix. Yes. It's such a good example.

Yeah. For your daughter to see you thriving in your life and doing so many different projects and everything that you've got going on. Because what's the, I guess, the alternate and the expectation is what you, you shut out and shut down. Like you can't, you give a life ahead of you. Well, I mean, but that is the expectation.

You know, because it think about this even, right? Like after my husband died four months after he died, I moved from New York to Los Angeles for a new job, right? Was that catholic to leave the, Oh, I had to leave New York.

I mean, every corner reminded me of him.

I was dying there. I had to leave. You can imagine the amount of judgment that I got. Really, but we're like, you know, And it's just when strangers are people.

Family, everybody has an opinion. You know, it's like, should you just sit down for a year, just heal? Shouldn't you just, just don't do anything. Just you're probably going through a mental breakdown. So just calm down.

Don't go anywhere. And they don't say it because they hate you. They're saying it because they love you. And they're trying to protect you. I also think it's people projecting what they would do on you.

Oh, but girl, they wouldn't even do it.

That's the problem. They're projecting an idea that they have of what the, From a story. Perfect widow should be rights or the perfect business woman should be.

“That's why people like have opinions when my breasts are out.”

Because they're like, you're an executive. You shouldn't have cleavage. Excuse me now. We happen to love my tips. Some titties out. They're good.

I like when you're there. Some good news. Telling you, I got none done for them. And they are sitting. 49 years old and they're up here, girl.

Put this bitch in. They got the very same natural. These are natural. And they sit on the YouTube. And they sit on the YouTube.

They sit on the YouTube. They sit on the YouTube. They sit on the YouTube. I'm trying to just be like this for now. I'm like, I'm like, that's someone looking at her.

You can appreciate great tips. I mean, the whole time I was looking at him, I was like, well, those are some beautiful books. You know, and I like to show them. Now they're interested.

I can get rid of this. No card. Just get it. Taylor's back. They're beating his meat. Oh.

If something can elevate my day and make me feel more aligned, I'm in. And I have been driving with my kids a lot in the cars to pick up. To activities, to the dentist, our dentist is two hours away, which we'll get to in an episode soon.

But what I'm driving, I always stop by Starbucks.

And my specific order, because you know I'm going to give it to you, is the new Ice Lavender Cream Mocha. Oh my god, it's so good. It's like smooth topped with this subtle lavender cold foam. It just feels chic, elevated, floral fresh.

“And honestly, I feel like it's like spring and a cup.”

I am so in love with this. I actually text my friend the other day. And I was like, you have to try it. It's also so pretty. The best part to me about Starbucks is that you can customize what you want.

So I can adjust the sweetness or change the milk to really make it my own. And the sweetness I like to make very, very light. I like it to feel like refreshing. So it still tastes amazing, it just feels more refined and intentional. I recommended this drink to some of the girls on our team, and they all loved it.

It's perfectly balanced, and I have no notes, and that's rare. You go in Starbucks and you create something that feels completely your own and personalized. And for me with Starbucks, I make it work for my routine, and I customize my order. You can customize and add it as you please. That's what I love about Starbucks.

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That is crazy. So a lot of people are doing combo feeding now.

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"I took it, Lady Jennifer of Koinge." "Well, many thanks, good sir." "Here is my Discover card." "They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs." "Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop."

"Get it with the times." "With the times, you're playing the loot." "Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?" Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nilsen Report.

"Okay, so what do you want to instill in your daughter? I'm sure you're very intentional about that." "Oh, my God."

“"In so many ways, I've been intentional with her."”

"I can tell you that from the moment I became a single mother, which was terrifying to me." "And I've been honest about this. I don't mind sharing it here," "which is that I was not the one who wanted to start a family." "My husband was." "And I found it very, very difficult in those early days."

"I found it almost impossible." "And I was kind of like, I've been thrust into this, and now I've got to raise this person." "But I'm ambitious, and I want to career." "And, you know, I don't want it to slow me down." "And I had people at the office who were advising me that I shouldn't have pictures of my daughter up because people would think that I wasn't committed enough to the job."

"I mean, it was just like how deep into your executive career were you when you had your first kid."

"I was 32 years old, so I was about a decade." "Okay." "So when Peter died, they all was four." "And I was looking at her, like, what in the hell am I supposed to do now?" "Like, how am I supposed to raise this person by myself?"

"Like, this was this idea. Wouldn't even my idea." "And then on top of it, I felt like it would stop me from being able to do all of the things I want to do, because as a single parent, now you are wholly responsible." "If I need to travel for a business trip, how am I going to do that?" "You know, you were just talking about leaving your daughter in Texas." "I'm like, how would I do that? Who would watch her?"

"There was no support." "And so I changed my mindset pretty early, like with her, in that I actually told her quite bluntly." "I was like, I don't know how to do this." "I just, I don't know." "And you're going to have to tell me about things you need."

"It's just four." "And I was having this very adult conversation." "I mean, we were sitting now." "And the ways that I made that into reality were things like opening up my calendar and actually letting her have responsibility in it." "So being like, if you need me to be at the school, like for whatever, you got to tell me."

"And it's got to be really important because I have to do other things, other places." "Like, I wasn't going to be ashamed of my ambition." "But I was like, you're going to have to tell me and then I will put it on the thing and I will be there." "Okay, but it can't be every day. It can't even be every week."

“"We got it. We got to really make choices." And even at four, she felt the respect that I had for her, you know?”

"And that I would respect her enough to respect her wishes." "And now, 12 years later, we still behave that way." "I think with children and maybe this, I don't know if there's been your experience, the more you explain to them, the reasons why." "The more you need to do things, the more I think, and again, I don't want to tell their parents how to parent."

"They get them certain." "They get them certain." "They don't know, and they're so smart." "Or things like, you know, when I got into a position where I was making a lot of money and you know, she can have anything that she wants, I decided to switch up her birthday presence." "Because I was like, "Oh, I could see it was like this mountain of gifts."

"This was game for me and her aunts and friends and all that." "And three months later, they were discarded." "And so I was like, you know what, actually?" "No more birthday presents or birthday parties." "And she was like, you know, obviously, a very upset."

"But I was like, here's what we're going to do."

"You are going to pick a place in the world that you want to go." "That will be my gift to you." "You will have to present why you want to go there." "And it'll have to make sense. You come up with an itinerary." "And then my job is to get you there and to do the itinerary."

"She started doing that when she was, she was about four or also."

“"She'll remember that way more than the little, "Oh, yeah. Oh, we have some adventures."”

"Oh, we've had such a good time." "She's so independent. They started everything you're saying. I see the foresight of that being a really painful year." "Very much." "And someone who thinks, you know, very clearly." "And it's also intentional." Like, "We don't do things just to do them."

"I mean, obviously, they're spontaneity." "And, you know, we'd like to get up some days and be like, "Oh, we're going to go to this thing." "Or do that thing."

"But also, it's like, why do you want that thing?"

"Or why do you want to go there?" "Or why are you friends with that person?" "What's the best place you guys have gone?" "When she was 10, she presented that she wanted to go to Scotland." "And she does like a presentation."

"Like, it's like, you know." "That's cool." "But it, her rationale was because it is the only country on the planet where their national animal is the unicorn." "Are unicorns real?" "Girl, the Scottish thing, so." "I was shocked." "Take me to Scotland."

"Yes, I was."

“"To the entire itinerary was to go find the unicorns, the fairies, all kind of woodland creature."”

"You might have to send me that itinerary." "It was so good. Oh, we had such a good time." "It was beautiful." "Oh, my God, it was gorgeous." "Oh, we went to the castles. We were in the forest."

"Are the guys hot?" "Girl, I wouldn't look at it, no men." "What is that relevant to you, why?" "I'm just wondering." "Like, what are the aestheticas?"

"I know, right?" "Maybe that will be our plan when she's a little older." "Could you imagine if I was over here?" "OK, we're going to have the girls hot." "I feel like what's going on over here?"

"No, it's just wondering for the audience to say, "Right." "You know what, but they are." "You know, they like be outside." "I feel like they are probably rugged." "Rug it."

"That's what I would assume." "We like rugged." "Yes." "Why did you decide to open up about your fertility journey?" "Was that again a choice?"

"Yeah, oh yeah, that was a very big choice." "Cause there's so many reasons." "But I think the main one is that again, sort of overcoming ideas of shame. You know, that like I've already broached the topic of widowhood and trying to tear down the shame that comes along with it.

And infertility is another one. "It's a really, really big one." "I've had more response to this vulnerability than probably anything else I've ever talked about." "So many people who've been like, "Thank you so much for saying this out loud." "I went through this myself. I didn't tell a soul."

“"You know, there's so much shame in it because people feel like if you're a woman, that's what you're supposed to do."”

"You're supposed to just naturally get pregnant."

"I'm like, "Girl, I'd never had an easy pregnancy in my life."

"It's like my mom had four daughters just like that." "You know, her mom had five just like that." "The women and my family give birth easily." "And so I had difficult pregnancies and then found myself in a situation." "You know, where it's like I didn't have a partner and I wanted more kids, but you know, didn't want to do it without one."

"Finally found my person again and I want a family with him." "But I am old." "And it doesn't come natural." "And so I've got to put in the extra effort to get pregnant." "And there shouldn't be any shame in that."

"But also the people who are judgmental who I can totally understand why people don't want to share this type of stuff." "You know, folks will tell you all kind of things." "You're too old to do it. Why would you want to put your body through that? Shouldn't you get a surrogate? Why don't you adopt?" "I'm like, it's not even a goddamn business."

"What I do with my body." "It's a lot of opinions." "But then on the flip side, the amount of people who've been like, "God, thank you so much because it is difficult." "It is lonely and it is sad." "And on a recent episode, I talked about how we were able to fertilize two eggs that became embryos, but then didn't make it to the blast stage."

"And the amount of responses I got, people were like, I couldn't articulate it that way before."

“"And people told me not to be sad because they weren't real kids."”

"And I was just like, oh my God. This is why I share it." "Because it's not that I'm braver than other people." "It's just that I want to get rid of all of this shame that we have around so many identities that I happen to have." "And I'm like, we don't need to be ashamed of that." " Has this been almost therapeutic and liberating for you to share all this?"

"Yeah, for sure." "For sure." "It's like almost feels like refreshing for you." "Yeah, because I also don't want to... I don't believe in hiding the things in our lives that are hard." "When I was leaving, or when I was in, in my job at Netflix, right before I left, I was writing my book, my memoir."

"And every publisher wanted me to write that, like, how did get to the corporate, the corner office in heels?" "You know, how to be a boss chick?" "That was like, I'm not writing that book. You know, I might want it, but I'm not writing it now." "I wanted to write the book about my grief and my loss because I was like, look, yes, you can have all of these things that can knock you down and make you feel like you can never make it, but you can." "That's the story I want you to know. I want you to know that even as a leader, you can be empathetic."

"You can show people the hard stuff and the messy stuff and still be able to command."

"You know, because it's like, as a leader, you're expected to be so fierce." "I guess we'll have to know every answer. You moveable." "But it's like, look, we human too." "We're dealing with little kids that get sick and therefore you can't make it to the meeting on time." "We're dealing with breakups that break your heart and make you not want to get up in the morning."

"We're dealing with fights with your mom that make you frustrated about the choices you've made in life." "We're dealing with a lot of stuff so we should all be more open about it."

“"I think one of the reasons I have wanted you on this show for so that I really have."”

"I think I've harassed you a couple of times and you're, yes." "What I like about you as a viewer is that you're very comfortable in your masculine, but you're also really comfortable in your feminine." "And you don't see that a lot. You either see one or the other." "Right." "And for me, what I like watching you as I feel like you're such a boss, but then you also, in your relationship, you are feminine."

"Yes." "At home, you're feminine." "You're all about your homemaker." "Yes." "Absolutely."

"I really relate to that." "Yes." "It's refreshing." "How do you balance both of those things so well?" "Yeah."

"Well, I really, I really love it." "You know, like, I love making a home." "And I think again, like, I feel like this is a recurring theme about shame." "I don't know how we got here, but here we are." "You know, is that like, again, it's like if you're, you know, a boss chick and you're strong, somehow you can't be soft."

"You can't be vulnerable." "You know, you can't do the things that, you know, are considered traditional at home." "Because God forbid your feminists and you also like to bake." "Yeah." "And was saying, like, "Why can't we do both?

Why can't I ask my, my man if he wants something to eat and me make it?" "Like, I enjoy that." "And that is okay." "Like, and he does other things for me." "It's all right."

"Like, we can do both things." "And so, for me, there is no shame in accepting the fact that I am a homemaker." And I also happened to have had a quite a few CMO jobs. I can be both of those things. I relate to it.

I love it. I'm like, I'm not a trad wife, but I'm trad. Tradish. Tradish. I love it.

I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.

It's so important to me. I also have a lot of ambitions. Yeah. Again. Yeah.

You can come up with a new term. Tradish. Tradish. Tradish. I see what you did there.

I see what you did there. I see what you did there. But I mean, I look at this and I like that I have a strong woman that chasing her ambition and her career and all those things. But at the same time, like, sometimes in the bedroom room, the house, they don't want

that all the time. Same way as, yeah. Maybe she wouldn't want me to be super feminine all the time, right? Like that. They should have a balance of the name about your hair.

So if that's enough for me.

Well, this is incredible.

It is good hair, though. Thank you. Thank you. It's really really good. But no, I think, you know, there's sometimes a narrative, especially these days, pushed

“on men and women that you have to be one or the other.”

And I think it's harmful. It's very harmful. Yeah. And I think in a relationship, people can't ignore evolution, but like we did evolve

You know what I think it has to be? I also want you to go out and kill the tiger. Tradish. That's amazing. I also want you to jump in front of me.

Yeah. Someone breaks into the house. Yeah. No, no. No, no.

No, no. No, no. Go down there. I see what's going on. Yeah.

“And so I think, you know, sometimes, and again, we get these conversations pop up on the”

show all the time. Yeah. And, you know, people bash the trad wife and then they dash the door. No, Lord. Yes.

Yeah. But they're exactly. And that's my point is that I don't think there is a bashing or one or the other. I think also because I grew up in a household where my mom was a homemaker. No, she decided to give up her career to be a wife and to raise four kids and she was phenomenal

at it. You know, and I have a lot of respect for that. I don't think she like wasted her life or like, oh, my God, she could have been the CEO of this company or she could have done that.

Like, I think she is incredible at what she did.

You know, and so I have so much respect for that, that how could I see that as a bad thing in myself. Yeah. You know, there's like some people grow up and look at that and it's kind of like there's like a self-loathing, and I think that's harmful.

Yeah. Speaking earlier on your ambition in the early days of your career, what were you chasing? Mm-hmm. Was it the financial security, was it the title, was it the control, what was your

early ambition? What did it look like?

“I think my early early, early ambition was power.”

You know, I wanted to be in charge. I didn't like feeling like people didn't respect me. It happened so often. That's so honest. It was a little trip on the show.

I wanted to be more. Yeah. Because, like, so many times I was dismissed, right? Or like, you know, you're in a meeting and you have an idea and some of my talks over you.

Or they ignore your idea and then somebody else says it, and then they start praising that person. Oh, man. It happened so often. So I wanted power, because I was like, I need to be the one, when I walk in the room,

I need the room to shift to me.

And when did you first feel you had that power?

Oh, that's a very hard question, because I think I've had to fight for it at every stage. Like, you've done some things that are gnarly, like you said you had a podcast with Katie Correct. Yeah. You are doing a show with Jimmy Fallon, and the CM of Netflix is not a small...

Yeah. But I mean, like, not to read your whole behavior, but you've been, you've been at endeavor. I am G, U, F, C, the universe. You've been, obviously, at Netflix, at Pepsi, like New York.

Hangout with Dana White. No, I didn't. Oh, I did not. I like him. He's very charismatic.

He was on the show with him. Oh, was he? We were fun with him, yeah. No, he's so charismatic. I didn't get a chance to hang out with him.

I feel like YouTube would be fun. Oh, my God. I'm sure, because he's a little crazy, also. But I mean, you list out all of your accomplishments, I mean, you can go on and on. And so it's interesting to hear you say that there was not like a moment where you felt...

No, I think I've had feelings of power, but it is probably also what has driven my ambition to go again and again and again and again is that I haven't felt like I have achieved it.

And so I'm always searching for it.

And I think at some point, also, it's switched to a combination of money and power. You know, it's like it's why I talk to so many women about raises and promotions and, you know, how to negotiate. I did an interview once with Gayle King, where I think on air, she asked me how to ask how she could ask for a raise.

And I was like, "Girl, how does it work for a raise?" Yeah, first of all, you make Henzy say, "In the room, how does Henzy ask for a raise?" Make Henzy, first of all, let me tell you something, okay? You understand the landscape of what everybody makes in the industry, okay? And then you beat that by 30%.

All right, let's move on to the next segment. And that is what you ask for. That is your target. You don't back down from that. It means that when you ask, you go another 20% higher so that you can back down to

the 30%. But can't you probably get it? Because she's great. She's one of my favorites. But you also have to be able to back it up.

Don't be a dummy out here, and then be asking for 50% raise. You see what I'm saying? Oh, sometimes that sometimes people do what's going on with that. Yeah. I want to actually, there was an appropriate amount when you go to past your mark.

Yes. What does that look like?

“Well, here's the thing is that you, there's what I'm saying, you've got to be worth”

your salt. Right. Well, we don't play yourself. OK, this takes a lot of honesty with self before you go up in there. Now, a lot of people know, a lot of women suffer from undervaluing themselves.

And so they're actually overqualified because as a leader, I can tell you the more men came into my office to ask for raises than women hands down, probably three to one. Well, also by the time the woman came to ask for a raise, she was way past her qualifications for it. I mean, men would come in there and have worked their three days, had to learn and got

damn thing. And would be like, oh, you know, I think I deserve 25% more.

She's doing in here. What are you even talking about? And so it's like, I mean, women undervalued themselves so much.

So first, it's like you really do have to have the honest honest, honest conversation.

How am I performing in this job? And how do you get, I mean, I'm going to do this as an employer, that I'm understanding how the conversation is the two ways. So if somebody comes to you and they say, listen, I feel undervalued and I want X amount. What are the things that you're telling them to be, to get them to be honest with themselves

about what their real value is and then you as the boss making the decision, what is the pushback or feedback? Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, it's like, if I'm the boss, right, I probably know what the job requirements are. And I understand what they're not, you've met them.

So first of all, you shouldn't come to me unless you believe that you are exceeding those expectations. Because if you're not, I will tell you, niche or not, and then you're probably going to go home and cry. You know what I mean? That's playing yourself right there.

Yes, you are playing yourself.

So it's like, if you're coming to me as the employee and saying, hey, look, I feel undervalued

“here because I'm hitting this mark in that mark and that mark, by the way, you have to come”

with like, you can just example undervalued. No, come with tactical, it's like example. Of how you think you over-delivered and it can't be one time, it can't be two times, it can be three times, it has become assistant over time. And then you can come and say, hey, look, I'm overperforming here.

I've keep doing the thing that you told me to do and I add 15% effort to it. I am beating every keep performance indicator you've said. So I believe I deserve a race. What if someone comes here and you say, I've been here for two years and you probably did nothing.

Well, I don't know what you're saying is that being somewhere for two years doesn't mean to a race. No, absolutely. Tenier does not mean you get paid more. So you have to add extra value.

You have to have impact on it. So you have to have impact over a tenier. Kim Kardashian got shit for saying you got to work, you're at like right, everyone's at that. Yeah, she said people don't want to work.

I mean, she's saying not everybody, but I got what she's saying.

“Well, there was a moment in time where the, you know, I think people were not being honest”

with themselves. No, they were not requests for coaching. And, you know, as somebody who's had to work for a long time and, you know, build things and use yourself, I think the hardest conversations are when people come and say like, I'm worth it.

And it's what you're saying. I'm worth it here. But there's no examples. And I put it in the time and what I have to go back and say, and I'm sure you've brought us, well, give me an example of how you're contributing in a way that, yes, so

me how you're making impact above and beyond the job qualifications. Doing the job alone is not enough to get a race. It really is not. You have to exceed the expectations. So I'm like, you're doing the job description.

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typically look like for your employers? Well, it was, I think it's a little, it was a little different for me because I found that I couldn't necessarily get big raises. The way I wanted them. Like I said, at some point, my ambition changed from just power to also money. I wanted exponential raises. And I couldn't get it at the places I were. So I was happy to quit and get another job. That's a good segment. I had one thing on our

notes that I wanted to talk to you. I've been in a lot of places, but you've kept a really good reputation to speak very highly of your career from what we've learned. How will have you maintained that? Because sometimes people leave a job in a messy way. Bridges seems like you've been able to kind of move throughout your career without doing that.

“Yeah. Well, I'll tell you this. I think one of the biggest examples of the fact that I do”

have a good reputation is that I haven't used a resume in about 15 years. Wow. You know, it's like nobody asked for that. Like when yeah, when Ted Cerando said Netflix called and said, hey, you know, we were thinking about changing our CMO and we would like he didn't say, can I see a resume? You know what I'm saying? He had heard and seen the impact I had had at Endeavor with Ari manual and was like, hey, we actually need your talent here. And for

me, it's always been about proving the fact that my value was more than whatever the company

if the job is to come in and change the way people use the word Uber, I'm going to come and

make it a colloquialism. With all the powerful people that you've worked with, who has had the most

“impact on you? Who are the ones where you're like damn, not person taught me ABCD? I think without”

Spike Lee, I don't know that I would have known early on how impactful I am. You know, so Spike was my first boss. I was an assistant at his ad agency in New York City and I was taking a break between undergraduate school and medical school because I'd take an MCAD. I was going to become a doctor and I know and I went to New York and my parents were not going to fund this. So I had to get a job. I was Spike Lee's assistant and he was pitching the PepsiCo business through his advertising agency

because he was in between like his movie director roles he was shooting commercials. So he was pitching PepsiCo as a client and asked around the office, you know, who should be the, you know, main person who should be the spokesperson and people were going up on billboard charts and trying to find, you know, the hottest actress and this and that and I had seen Carmen the hip opera on MTV. It was a TV movie starring Beyonce Knowles and my Kai Fyifer and Beyonce at the time was

coming out of Destiny's Child. She wanted to be a solo actor and an actress and she was getting

pant. I mean, people were like never going to make it. Like, you know, the only successful solo artists

coming out of girl group Diana Ross. That's true. That's amazing. That is it. Well, the only person and so she was getting hammered and I saw this movie and I was like, oh, he's like, I loved it and I loved her in it and so when Spike was asking around, I said, I saw this TV movie starring Beyonce Knowles and people were snickering and laughing, you know, and just like, she's the assistant and she doesn't even know it better. And Spike was like, I'm going to talk to her and he had a meeting

with her and decided she was the one. And if not for that moment, I don't think I would have understood that tenure doesn't equate your power. You know, that I was 23 years old and I gave him the idea to use her. Girl, I feel like we could talk to you. We could talk to you for hours and you got to come back at some point. I know. I know you would want to me here. I'm like, I'll come back whenever you want. Wait, we have to stop. Well, we got she's got to stop. She's going to be like, she's going to be like,

she's going to be like, oh, we're going to be like, I will. I will. You can come back. I would love that. We don't even take part in a couple of things. We need to part two. We didn't even get into Uber and Albano

“because I got some stories. Boy. But anyways, you have to tell us before you have to tell us why you chose”

to join housewife. Oh, yes. Because that was strategic. I think I don't know why. And then what's

going on with on-brand with Jimmy Fallon? Yes, okay. Okay. So here's the thing. When I left Netflix,

it was really, really tough. Again, I think people look at my resume and just like, oh my god, I'll just just teach a movie. And I'm like, no, people booed me at every single move. I promise you, they were not supportive. And I know it's hard to believe, but it is so true. Because if we had time, I would get into the details of like what was happening at the time and why people were booing me, moving into a new job. So I was eating Netflix. The decision was because I was writing

my book and it was so heavy. And I knew that I couldn't do that and also be the global chief marketing officer of Netflix. It was a huge job. And I needed all my energy and attention. But I really wanted to write this book. And the day that Ted and I had our meeting and decided that I would leave, I cried. You know, it was so scary. But I left. I wrote my book. I published it. And then I was

“sitting there in my house after it was published. And I was like, oh, shit, that's what? Like this”

I did, I did my job. So I went out on the market. You know, got interviews, came down to, you know, a last interview where it's like, I had already cleared everybody. I just need to meet the board. The offer was already in my inbox and my lawyers. I was sitting there the next day. I had taken a flight the next day to go meet the board. And I could not do it. I was like, I don't, I don't think I want to go back into this world. I just, I've been out now a year. And while it

felt like sabbatical, I was like, I don't think I want to do it. And I, again, I cried and it was so scary because my single mom, I take care of my parents. I have three homes. Like, I need money.

He takes money to do these things. Yeah. Yeah. The money that's not going there. It's good. Okay.

“And I got lots of stock but damn. So I was sitting there and thinking, I can't go back. I”

don't want to go back. But I was so scared, not to. But I knew I, I really couldn't take the job. And so I declined even before going to meet the board, much to my mother's anger. That's another story for another time. Yeah. Good. Next time you can tell that story. And I, I was sitting in my home for, I was a like three months. You know, a little depressed considering the stupid decision I'd made to turn down that job, figuring out like, "Ooh, is it like embarrassing for me to

go back out and say, hey, look, anybody else want to see a mom?" You know? And I got a email. And it was from the Bravo executives. And they said, you know, we've been trying to get you for many years.

But never able to because you always had jobs. And now we hear that you are out. And you are

potentially not going back. So would you consider coming on the show? And I was like, absolutely fine.

“Could you take the job when you were running that way? No, I couldn't have done the show then. No.”

And matter of fact, the funny thing is I thought they wanted me to become the same of Bravo. Like, I didn't think they wanted me on the damn show. You know, like, I thought they were calling me for like a executive show where you excited? I was nervous. Yeah. Because I thought, you know, what, like, I'm a champion of women. I, I love being able to empower them. I don't want to go on TV and fight with people. You know, but my thought after I sat with it for some time was it,

like, but this narrative doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be this. You're sort of the voice of reason. Right. It's not, I don't, I don't, when I look at you on the show, I'm not like, oh, she's causing fights. No. You keep it. I don't want to do that. lively. Yeah. You get the dynamics. Yes. Yes. Yes. I don't, I don't want to fight with women on TV. I feel like there's kind of a, like, you would be audience where you're going. Yeah.

Because the thing is, and I, I recently did a video about this where I was talking about conflict, right? And I was like, you know what, the, the thing for me that was most pressing when I was thinking about joining the show was I was like, look, women at this age are so damn interesting. But we don't get a chance to really see them because Hollywood loves to show us, you know, women in their teens and 20s, maybe 30s. But by the time you are in your 40s, or 50s,

let me tell you, it's a very interesting time. You're raising kids. You got aging parents, you've got dynamics in your marriage. You, maybe you're coming out of it. Maybe you're getting

into your third one. You know, like, there's so much more on beyond before you get to talk about

your relationship with your girlfriends. So who you know them on time? Some of who you're making new friends? Who makes no friends? If you actually think about it, this age range is much on like, your team's going to kick in the door. Yeah. That's right. But we're going to keep going. Yeah. Because like, there's, there's so much that, like, is happening at this time. And so when I thought about that, that's actually what convinced me to go on the show.

Like, I was like, I want to show that. Like, I had, and at the time, there was so much happening in my life. And I'm like, but I want to see stories like this, too. And we're the baddies that. We're the ones who have a corporate career who made their money, who didn't marry into it. We're the ones who are like, you know, like falling in love again, the door of the, like, as, as a practitioner. We, on Beverly Hills specifically, where is the where we want, we need

it that entered. Yes. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. Yes. And that is why just full circle here.

“When I said that, like, you should walk into room or into matter and know that your molecule”

changes it. That's what I am doing. Mike, drop. Bam. We could talk to you for hours. No. You can't. We go on. Brian with Jimmy. Found. Brian with Jimmy found is so great. Just a real quick story on that. The people who poo pooed me for joining housewives who were like, "But sure in the marketing hall of fame, how dare you go in?" You know, ruin your reputation.

Well, Nancy, who is Jimmy's wife, is a big fan of Beverly Hills. And she saw the very first

episode that I was on. Jimmy unbeknownst to me had already sold the show to NBC and was trying to find a co-host and he couldn't find one. For a year he was looking. And interviewing a bunch of CMOs, but couldn't find the magic between someone who has the chops and also good on TV. And then they saw me. And that is how Jimmy and I got together. Volucule that entered the on brand with Jimmy