Whitney Wolfe Herd On How To Build A Billion Dollar Business, The Future Of Relationships & AI, Entrepreneurial Burnout, & Balancing Motherhood

Let's get the lay of the land. We were talking about fair about you as a mother. I feel like you're asked so many business questions all the time and we'll get to that. Three kids, three kids.

“What is life really like for you behind the scenes with three kids?”

Forget about the business for a second. Anna, as a wife, probably what it's like for you. So imagine, so I have three kids, two boys. It's a hybrid of like a wrestling match at my house all day long.

I literally have never met anything in my life with more energy than two brothers.

It's unbelievable. And now I have a new baby girl. So that has brought like so much harmony and peace. But my babies are everything. Like they are my number one.

I'm obsessed with them. I love being a mom. I just, I mean, I'm sure it's the same way you feel. It's just like they are best. It's the best.

It is the absolute best. But we're not at the stage because we went girl boy boy. And our youngest is only seven. So we haven't mixed our middle as a ton of energy. But we haven't experienced the two brother energy yet.

It's coming. Everyone that has two boys is coming. Oh, buckle. Yeah, kind of little girl were you when you were growing up. Calm and creative.

I was like set on the ground and draw all day long. It's like a very calm. So you weren't like, you weren't set up to be entrepreneurial. Well, I don't know about that because I do think every entrepreneurs inherently imaginative or creative.

I mean, that's kind of the foundation of being an entrepreneur. You're a dreamer, right? And all I wanted to do was kind of build these little imaginary worlds and draw them or bring them to life through art. And so I do feel like I had an entrepreneurial kind of capacity.

I was always obsessed with creating things.

I don't know if there was meant to be in business or not. But I loved to make things and build things and create things.

“With your own kids now, are you like leaning into that for them?”

Kind of actually. So it's funny. My son was begging me for a job because he wanted to save $200 for this. I'm very anti-technology for kids. Like super scared of it.

It terrifies me. But he wanted this kid friendly. It basically only calls mom and dad in 911. He wanted to just make $200. And so I've been trying to create, you know,

I'm trying to show him what money is and how it works and how hard it is to earn money. So he was begging for a job. And so over the summer we got him this little fake job as this little beach lifeguard helper.

When we were on a trip and they paid him in coconuts. He was like, this isn't money. What am I going to do with this? I can't do anything. I was like, well, let's turn the coconuts into a business.

So we painted the coconuts. And we called it crazy for coconuts. And then he put a sign out and had the coconuts for sale for like $6. But if you wanted to custom coconut, it could be $12. So some of our friends and family were saying, okay, well, I want to coconut with

this on it. And so he would go and design it. And then he started to learn like, how do you make money? So I'm trying to teach him. He's only six.

But I'm trying to instill this kind of imaginative. If you want it, make it, build it, solve it mindset. As an entrepreneur, you kind of are able to look at things that others may not see the opportunity and to your point with the coconuts and say there's an opportunity here if you're clever enough.

That's exactly right. And I wanted him to take that away. It's like, okay, someone gave me a coconut. Which is such a good metaphor in life. You know, you feel like you're handed coconuts all day long. Like, oh, I don't want this coconut.

You know, whatever that might be in life. Like someone said this or gave me that. And I love to turn straw into gold. Like, that is my favorite thing to do. It's like, okay, hand it to me.

It might look like nothing, but I love to find the opportunity and things. And I feel like that's honestly probably how I've built my career. It's just seeing the light and looking for the cracks of opportunity in moments that didn't present themselves that way.

“When was the first moment you remember doing something like that?”

Where you were like, there was a light bulb and you said, "Oh, I can turn something into gold." In college, I started a business. So I just wanted to find a way to kind of create change, but also build or do something.

And I was part of the sorority, which it's so funny when I was in the sorority. I felt like they hated me because I was like a bad sorority person. I did it. I mean, I got it. The parking tickets, the absences.

Like, I never went to chapter.

I mean, I pretty sure they threatened to like denounce me. That was the sorority. Kappa. And now I'm, now that I think they like me now. So I'm glad.

The guy I've been, I've been reclaimed. So that's good. I started this silly little company in college. These bamboo tote bags. They were like made out of bamboo fibers or something environmentally friendly.

And I put art on it. And I was selling them around campus to try to raise money for the animals in the BP oil spill.

“Who knows how or why I arrived there as a 1819 year old?”

But that was just like one moment of me just trying to go and hustle and then I learned how to do the little Facebook ads and you know, I went from there. You're really a creative strategist. Maybe. I think I have, I'm pretty sure I am just really hyper functioning and have to put my energy into things at all times.

You seem like, I feel like I relate to you ever since I listened to you on. What's the podcast about the founders? How I built this? How I built this? I feel like I relate to because it seems like you bring an intensity to your work.

I feel like I'm very intense at work, but how do you channel that when you're at home? Is there an intense schedule? Are you intense about being present? Is it in your calendar? Or are you more like wax?

So first of all, I'm trying to be more like you. I saw your, I think you're AI calendar that you build. I try, listen, I've, it's amazing. It's after 10 years, trial and error.

I've, I've always been like that.

Well, it's amazing. Oh, and by the way, I order all the stuff that you, I have like a shift wave chair sitting in my room. I don't even know how to set it up. I've got it.

I'm going to text you the best one. Is it good? It's so good. Okay. It vibrates you.

Okay. So I need to--

“It supposed to be good for your nervousness.”

I mean, like, HR. You will love it. If I, like, I heard you on that podcast, I've heard you on other podcasts. You will love it because it changes your state. Great.

I need that. We need that. So yes, I'm very intense at work. But here's, here's how I would describe myself. I was the student who either got an A or got a D.

If I'm uninterested in something, it's not going to happen. Like, it's just not going to happen. I cannot fake it. I cannot halfway something. I'm either 100% in or I'm just completely out.

And so if I love it, if I'm passionate, if I care about it, you're going to get the sun, the moon, the stars, and the sky.

Like, I will go 100 million percent at something.

But if I'm not into it, I'm just not going to give it even an ounce of energy. And so I think I've, I've found a career that I genuinely love. I love connecting people. I love helping people, find love. I love bringing people together.

It's genuinely my passion. Even outside of bumble. Like, I love to bring my friends together.

“I'll be like, you need to meet this person or you're,”

I like to dot connect with people. And so because I care, I'm going to do a great job at it. And like, this is how I am with my house. Like, designing a home. I mean, I'm technically a CD.

I've been diagnosed with OCD. So I'm very particular. Like, devils in the details. Tell me about that. What's the OCD?

Is it like making sure the labels are out? So I'm OCD about a few things. Like, one, I'm completely neurotic and weird about shoes and a house. I'll take it to a different level. Like, I'll hold a grudge.

If someone doesn't know my house was shoes on. I can't even have a conversation with someone if they have their shoes on in my house. I'm like, I like, we'll start like, I do that right now.

So what is it like you're making? So what are you doing? I'll say, shoes are. Oh, no, there are no shoes in our shoes. No, you can't wear shoes.

It's like your vehicle matters shoes. I don't know. Exactly. You stepped on a heroine needle outside. And then you want to walk in the house.

It's a baby school. I don't know. When I was doing my skipping around in heroin needles. I forgot about that. Yeah.

No, but seriously. It's on the asphalt. It's a joke. Well, listen, we don't live in LA. We're saying LA.

I'm just kidding. It's okay. It's true. So I'm super OCD about that. But I could also obsess over like the lining of something.

If it's, it's off. I just, I fixate on things. But then that also has a downside. Right? There's a positive because if I set my mind to it,

I will do it. Like, if I say, I will get this done and I will build this thing and I will make it work. Oh, I will make it work.

But the problem is if I get in a negative loop, it's, it's really.

Here's you off. I have a super hypocondriac. So if you, if I get on a loop about like a health thing, I cannot get off the loop. And so that's been a problem for me.

So you ruminate on it. Yes. So if you, if somebody, like, if you think that you have some kind of ailment, and even if you don't, it's almost like, you get stuck in such a way that you can't stop thinking about it. And it drives you insane.

And then I started meditating. TM. Okay. Did you training for that or you just? Bob Roth.

Okay. Oh, I got to look him up. Change my life. Oh, you don't know Bob Roth. No, should you come on the show?

Immediately. Okay. Bob is spectacular. Okay. He is, you know, I was that type of person.

I don't know how y'all are, but I was convinced that meditation was just like not for me. I was like, oh, no, I'm too high function for that. I can't meditate. And he came in to this four day session with me. It took a couple times.

The first I was like, what? Like, you know, okay, I got to go with it. Like, all the less. And then the second day, it was transcendent.

And it is a game changer for me.

So meditation has been huge spirituality. Not religious and no knocking on religion. I mean, be whatever you want to be in this world. But believing in, like, higher power, coincidence.

“I don't know, you know who you need to have on this.”

Laura Lynn Jackson. What's that? Oh, my God. Okay. All energy should have Zuska.

Give me Zuska. The facialist will trade all these things. But Laura Lynn Jackson changed my life throughout the book science. Have you read the book science? I just bought that.

Okay. Read the book. Okay. I'm going to set you up with her. You need to do a session with her.

It's going to change your life. Okay. Can't wait. That's fine. Yep.

That's a sign. So like having a spiritual connection and meditating have been my two, like, Godzons. I think, I mean, as you're talking, I wonder if this, if you relate to this, I don't not think meditation is for I know it could be. And I know other things as well.

Like, there's other good. But I. You think you're too high on the thing? No, no, no, no. I don't.

I know. And I, like, there's probably trauma work I need to do and there's probably, like, but what happens is I'm like, I get to a place from like, okay, I got to accomplish a few things and get through things and then I will focus on that at some point. You're.

And then. I know I need to do it. But I sometimes I don't put it at the forefront and make it a priority. Yeah. I kind of just like grit the teeth and go through it.

Okay. If I were you, I would call Bob Roth. Okay. Give me his number. I will.

Carson put this down for me. So I got him into cranial sacral, which is my favorite thing of those great. I. I feel like you're, I feel energetically, I feel like you've done cranial sacral. I love.

Okay. So I love it. He, the cranial sacral doctor, Dr. Maria in Austin, she's amazing. Told him that he's blocked. He can't get in to the dungeon.

Okay. Listen, I think. How you become what you become in life, like what you're driven.

Like we had somebody on, be like, what drives you is not always what serves you

in the long run.

“And so, you know, I think a lot of people that are maybe type A or driven personalities”

or people that want to accomplish, like there's probably some skeletons in the closet. Right? That's like what the driving force is, right? Like you probably know better than most. And I think I did a good job of like pushing a lot of things down for a long time.

And probably still do. And so when she says block, I think she's just like, I'm not as open to others. Right? What I mean by like, there's probably some things I need to work. There's like, I'm aware that there's like, I'm sure there's things that I need to get out, but I just haven't done it yet.

Yeah. I haven't done it. Yeah. And you're like, I'm too busy. I'll do this later.

Yeah, and it's in the problem is, is like, I know at some point. But what I do is I go go go and then I crash and burn. And we were talking, oh, fair. Like you now got to a place which we should talk about, you take breaks. But I am very much like go go go to the wheels wall off and then crash and then recover.

To burn out, look like specifically eat, feel all like what it. What was the, give us the whole shipping of what the burn out for you looked like? Was it a day? Was it a year? What was it? You know, I think my lowest point was the IPO, which is funny because to the outside world.

You know, we IPOed a $16 billion valuation or something ridiculous.

I was 31, I mean, like they had shut the whole street down to turn the office. And then like the youngest woman to take a company public, like all this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like, so what? You know, and that was, that was my realization was like on paper. I'm like all over the internet. I'm the youngest this.

I'm the dad. I'm now a self-made billionaire on paper. You know, these are the things that you think for a decade are going to make you feel.

“Feel something worthy or enough or, you know, accept it or validate it, right?”

Because this is just what you assume drives that. And I think this was this mountain I was climbing for so long. You know, when I got there, I remember after the IPO, I just, I just like broke down and like sobbed.

My husband was there. I, you know, I had it all, but I was empty.

“And I think I was empty for a couple reasons. The first reason was I had just burnt myself like you had said, like to the crowd.”

I mean, I was waking up at three in the morning to breastfeed my child. And then, you know, go back to sleep a little bit and watching them on it or all night. And then getting on these, you know, pre-IPL lead up because he was already older by then. But it took like a, you know, almost a year at a prep for all of this. So I just had this baby. And right when I come out of having the baby, you know, we had closed our blackstone deal.

And then shortly thereafter, we like started prepping to go public. So it was just this race. It was like a marathon while entering into new motherhood. And I just, I just sat to myself. I depleted myself of everything. And I was just, it was like the worst time of my life.

I didn't even know which way was up or down.

I think I'd post part of depression, which I didn't know what that was. And then I felt guilty for having it because I was like, well, I've tried care. And you know, I'm, I'm my baby's healthy. And so there's all these feelings of like, you don't deserve. Or you're not allowed to feel these ways because you have it so much better than others. And there's this narrative of like, I don't have permission to feel this way.

And so much pressure put on myself. So I think the IPO on paper to the world. It was like, my wealthiest, you know, most fruitful, most like successful moment. Right? Like all over it. And I was just completely empty inside. It was just dark. So what did you do to rejuvenate yourself? What are the steps that you took because maybe someone's listening right now and they feel the same way.

They feel empty. What did you do?

“So the first thing I realized was success is not external.”

It's just not. It's, it's internal. It really is like no amount of external validation will do it. Like it doesn't matter. And I think there's this narrative like, well, when I get to the next level, I'll feel it. Or maybe that next level, that next level. But what happened to me was like, I got to the top of the mountain. Like where else was there to go?

Right? Astronaut syndrome. I was just like, where, yeah, like where am I going to go from here? It was, the answer was clear. The only place to go from there was in. Like stop going out, you know, metaphorically. Like stop seeking this outside.

And that was what started my whole quest into meditation and connecting with a spiritual force and having a deeper understanding of the why of everything. And kind of decoupling ego from soul, which I think is really an interesting exercise. Like if your ego lives on this shoulder and your soul lives on that shoulder,

“and every single thing you do every day, it's like which side of the road is it going to?”

Like are we doing this for our ego? Are we doing this for our soul? Which is our higher good. And the funny thing is, these things usually don't like each other. Like what's good for your soul is oftentimes not good for your ego and vice versa. What were you doing for your ego and what are you doing now for your soul? So now I don't do anything for my ego.

Nothing. What do you do? That's not true. Like I do beauty stuff I guess for my ego. Like, you know, I'm trying to get my hair healthy and like I feel like, you know, there's all the beauty stuff. But I feel like that's a personal competence thing. Yeah, it is. It is. And I don't think it's an ego thing in the sense that I'm doing it for others. I think it's more of like, it fills my cup and makes me feel better about myself.

I don't really do anything out of ego. I say no to a lot of stuff now. Like I don't want to fit in. Don't invite me to the party. Just like honestly don't just don't even invite me. I don't even want to go. Same. What is that called? It's not Dromo. It's not FOMO. It's just IDWG.

No, I don't want to go. Oh, don't want to go. No, but you know, here's another thing. So, and you know this, especially with the work that you've done. There's a lot of men and women that will look at your accomplishments.

They, they dream of having that kind of success. And those kind of resources. And what's interesting talking to people like you and others that have been on the show, that kind of reach the top of the mountain is I think if you're not solid here to begin with before you get there, like no amount of external validation or money or resources or abundance is ever going to solve that. No chance.

And what I've noticed personally in our own lives, not to the same degree,

but it's, it's never the end that gives you this satisfaction.

Like, it's always the in between in the build. And then it was actually funny. It's like by the time you get to the end, it's a little bit disappointing. Because you think you build it up and you think it's going to feel a certain way and then it doesn't.

Yeah, no, definitely. And to take it a step further. Remember, my journey is not just like, oh, here we go. To the top and stay at the top and like now we're hanging out at the top. Like, look at what's happened since then. I mean, our stock is down 96%.

For no reason, I mean, who knows what people, you know, trade stock on, right? But if you think that that's also not a wild feeling, like to fall, okay, you get to the top of the mountain, then you fall off of the mountain.

“I think it's crazy. And, but here's the cool part.”

So because when I got to the top, I had this epiphany, like, a wait a second.

This was never the quest. Like, this was never the journey.

Like, the real destination is inner peace and inner validation. So let's go on that journey. And then it makes you a better person in the endeavors that you take in the world because you are operating out of a place of, you know, stillness and self-assurance and you're not erratic and you're able to see things clearly.

So when our stock tumbled down to like nowhere, which by the way, the company is still performing very well. Like, this is a business that makes almost a billion dollars a year. This is a real company. You know, we posted, you know, I want to be careful

what I'm saying publicly versus, you know, because we're in a quiet period. But we make, you know, a lot of profit were very profitable business. But the stock is just writing, the stock market has just basically written us off as if we're dead. So that's a very strange feeling to just be written off after being the darling of the stock market. So these are very polarizing feelings, but here's the magic in it.

Because I had spent so much time going inward, healing, self-reflecting, you know, forgiving and also, you know, kind of connecting to this inner place of peace and spirituality. I'm not, I'm not impacted by it. I'm not. I was more, I was more upset internally when I was at the top

than I am at the perceived bottom. Because if you were to just look at me from an outsider's lens right now with where things are kind of measuring us, I have a different measuring stick. And that's the biggest differentiator.

I've switched out my measuring stick.

And I think that is one of the most powerful unlocks for any human being

is ask yourself, like, what is my measuring stick measuring? As you've grown, what do you think was, what do you think you cared about some of those external validation so much prior to doing the work on yourself? Seeking love.

“I think that's what we're all doing as human beings.”

You know, we are all on this quest to be loved, to be wanted, to be validated, to be needed. And we all have our own wounds. You know, like we were just saying, like, each and every one of us has some inner wound of feeling unloved or not worthy of love

and it's so funny that I'm in this business of love, right? And here I was out in the world helping all of these people find love and really the person I needed to help find love with myself. But it was love of myself because I have an amazing husband who you guys would actually really love him.

He's incredible. He's a cowboy in the in the rodeo and aspen all summer, every summer. Oh, you did it. You did it.

You probably saw him. Wait, he's like performing in it. Oh, yeah, he's in the rodeo. And my son goes out with him on a pony. And they ride out in the rodeo.

It's it's too cute. Enough talking about him. I don't like when women come on here and talk about really masculine guys. They're not the rodeo.

They're not that. It's a different thing. I'm a podcaster, okay? You know what podcasting is also a road. It's a version of a rodeo.

I wanted to switch gears with you a little bit. I would feel remiss and not ask you. You've talked about burnout. We were discussing before the show started.

“There's I think a lot of miscommunication misinformation”

around what it actually takes to build something like you've built or to build, you know, a lot of successful entrepreneurs. And there's this idea of balance. It's got Galloway was recently on the show. And he said, listen, you can have it all, but you can't have it all at once.

Amen. And you know, I think someone like Kim Kardashian got a lot of shit by saying like you have to work your asshole. But what I, I took issue with her getting shit because it's the truth. Right?

Like if you told the truth. She told the truth. And people got upset about it. And we went through this weird period of time where everyone was like, tell me everything I want to hear as long as it makes me feel good,

but don't tell me how it really is.

For someone who's actually built a billion-dollar beyond billion-dollar company.

What did your life look like as you were doing that and what sacrifice

It is all in all day, all night. There is no mode. There is no off-switch. You are on or you are off. And that's the truth.

“Now, there is a caveat. I think in the era of AI where you have these new tools,”

we can talk about that in a second.

But we look backwards for anybody that thinks that I just like, showed up and, you know, like, put on a yellow suit. And they said, "Download Vumble." And like it turned into a billion-dollar company, like, "Sorry." That didn't happen.

What did each of your days look like? It was, okay, so I was 25 years old when I started a Bumble. Just 25, actually. And I probably worked, let's say I would work all day. I would obsess all day.

I would be so focused that I actually lost touch with most of my friends. I had a terrible relationship with anyone that was further than five feet from me, because I was so focused. I luckily was with my husband. His now my husband threw all of it.

So he was my rock. And he's a, you know, he was a really steady person. But listen, I sacrificed everything. My physical health, my mental health, my relationships, my quality of life.

I worked all day every day and I never stopped ever.

I was probably in fighter flight for, I was 25 when I started it. Twenty, twenty, nineteen. We, I had my first child. We sold to Blackstone. We took a public 2021.

You know what? I would say that this went right until I had my first child. And then I was forced. I mean, as you know, like, I was holding a catapult to you into like a whole new 24/7 world.

And then, and I hope you can talk about this because I sure feel it. You feel guilty at work. Oh, yeah.

“But then you feel guilty at home, because you feel like you should be working.”

So real mind fuck. It is a real, real, real, real, real thing. Yeah. People don't talk about it. Maybe some people are listening, but why would you make all those sacrifices?

As you're building what you were building. There's a lot of people that are now reliant on you performing. Your team members, the people that work for you, your investors, your partners. You can't just be like, hey, you know, I'm just turning off because people's livelihoods are now dependent on your performance. Yeah.

But then you also don't want to be on your phone in front of your kids. I mean, this is how I feel. I mean, welcome to my world. I know, like such a conundrum. Yeah, I feel torn between two worlds most of the time.

And it, it's really hard. The reason I want it's so hard. It's so hard. He, men know our people to switch off. I notice when he comes home, it's like, like, he's in dad mode.

And when he goes to work, he's in work. How do you, I don't know. So I'll explain, like, I don't know if it's a man or woman thing. But I would. You just explain how I rationalize it.

I just rational, like, one, I grew up with a mom and a daddy both works.

Like, my mother always worked, and I just, that was a normal example.

For me, I actually think it's helped me with women later because I'm used to seeing that version. Right. That's a gift. Yeah, she was always, she still is. The way that I rationalize it is like, okay, well, I have to put food on the table and make a living to build resources for the family.

And like, this is just what it is. I could not do that. And, you know, then maybe some of those things are sacrifice. But rationally, I'm like, this is just like what? It's like input output type thing.

Oh, I miss the kids. I want to be with them more. Obviously, I want to spend as much time.

“But I think I'm able to just kind of, I think a lot of men are able to just say, like, this is what you're supposed to do.”

Yeah. Gender dynamics are obviously switching. Gender dynamics are a big deal, though, because I think we do carry a lot of this, this guilt is insane. It's heavy. It's heavy.

I mean, I don't want to be carefully. But, I mean, until the last, you know, 100 or so years, there was very few women in the workplace. Compared to their own now. There was definitely much fewer women that were leading organizations in building and being the CEOs and the founders. Yeah.

And so maybe from an evolutionary perspective, men have just the dynamic has been like men go to work with women. That's very real. So, you know, maybe we got rid of the guilt generations ago. I don't know. Perhaps I also think there's one distinction.

I'm curious if you agree with me or not. And I don't say this in a way that men don't care. That's not what I mean. Men do care. And I adore and cherish my boys, my husband.

I think men are, you know, there's nothing negative in this statement. I believe that women are so deeply nurturing and caring and thoughtful inherently that when we care so much at work.

When we care so much at home, we can't just like leave it at home.

I just think we are deeply, deeply caring and sensitive sensitive. Yeah. And I don't mean that in a women are sensitive and men are not. I just think there is this inherent nature to care and to put our everything into what we do. Men do the same.

But for me, it's just every mom I know. And every father I know, like they all love their children equally. And there's no distinction like I believe that you two both fundamentally love your children the same. There is something about a mom that just feels this need to be present. And it's like this energetic presence that is different.

It's just a hundred percent different. We take our kids on walks all the time and sometimes Lauren will start the walk without me. She'll be meeting the neighborhood and I'll go. And when I'm not there, it's different when I'm there. They behave differently. Like there's there's an energy that children, I'm sure you see this with your husband.

Like it's just, I don't know how to explain it, but I think children recognize that energy. This episode is brought to you by Better Help.

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“what have you done that has helped you balance that out?”

And I don't want to even use the word balance because I don't think there's not a lot of balance, but what has helped and alleviated? I see Bumble as one of my children. That's a good way to live. Really helped me because if I treat Bumble as this obligation or this stress or this thing

that I'm sacrificing for my babies, I'm going to hate it. And I'm going to stop doing it. And that's not really what I want. I love my job. I love my career.

I thrive helping build products that can change people's lives. I just treat Bumble like one of my children. And okay, I'm with this child right now. And now I'm with that child. And I just, I love what Bumble stands for in the world.

And I'm also deeply purpose-driven human. I think what you do in the world changes things. It really impacts people for the better. And so when you can see that there's selflessness also and what you're doing, and you're not just plugging away in a way that you hate,

“or you feel unfulfilled, I think it can change the game.”

And so I always tell my mom friends this.

Like, I have equal amount of working mother friends. As I do, not every mother's working, let's do it. I have equal amount of moms with two careers, which is one raising their children and one working doing something else. And ones that just choose to exclusively raise their children,

which I think both are excellent choices. But the ones that hate their, they're like, they're job. I'm like, you need to stop. Like, don't sacrifice unless you love it, switch it. Do something different.

I'm not saying quit and give up on a career. But you need to find a career you love. And I think this is the beauty of having children and makes you more intentional. I think when you have kids,

time starts mattering in a way that it didn't matter before. And you stop doing the like, I'll stick it out for another year. Or I'll see how I feel in two years. Or I'll get a drink with you, even though I don't know you that well.

Yeah, or like, this does nothing to enhance the world, myself, my family, or my life. Like, I'm going to say no.

If I don't, I always say like,

I have capacity for a certain amount right now and my kids fill a huge bucket of that. And my business fills some in my husband. And like, you have a little bit of capacity left.

“And you have to figure out where you want to deploy that.”

And that's the season that I'm in. And some friends don't understand that. And they've all off. They don't understand how. And some of them don't have kids. They don't understand having, you know, three kids under six.

And I empathize with that. But you only have a little bit of capacity left. And you have to be strategic with where you allocate that. So true. I'm a great came on and gave us some good advice.

And she was basically talking about this and around guilt. And the way she describes is like, she loves her work and loves what she does. And when she talks to her children, she says, like, I love that I get to go.

And she's going to change the way the kids view. Like, oh, I got to go to work. And it's this thing. And to point if you hate it,

You hate this. You're choosing something you hate over me. Right. But if they're like, hey, I love it. And this is the thing I get to go do.

And I'm passionate about the kids. Like, oh, great. Right. Go have fun. Em is incredible.

By the way, I mean, she definitely has more hours in the day than I do. I don't, I mean, I don't know how she does it all. She's amazing. But I agree. And you know, I love that you grew up with a mother that was working.

“And I think for me, I'm very proud that I can talk to my children.”

About what I do and how I contribute to the world outside of outside of their lives. But you know, it's like every different strokes for different folks. I judge no one. It's just, this is where I am now. But remember, I took a, I stepped away from CEO.

I hired a CEO. I want you to talk about that. Before before that, I just want to tell you though real quick. Like, if it means something for your boys, I think later in life, they will appreciate what you do.

Oh, yeah. And it'll change their dynamic with strong women. Yes. Because, and I'll speak more specifically. A lot of men, and I could say this, I'm a man, a lot of men get really threatened by strong women.

Big personalities and strong viewpoints. Yes. Some men get even more threatened by women that maybe the breadwinners or make a big living. I think for your boys, they're not going to experience that dynamic and they're going to be okay.

Because like, the reality is a lot of young men are going to enter the work force and viewpoints.

Look at the data, a lot of women are doing better financially and are starting to do more. And a lot of guys are struggling with that. I think it's actually part of like some of the imbalance in the dating world, which you probably know more about. Well, for sure.

“For your boys, like, I think the example will be good and later as they get around more women that are strong.”

They'll be more comfortable with it. No, absolutely. And I'm fortunate that I married someone with that mindset. So it's actually kind of a crazy story. So in college, my mentor was this woman who was my professor.

She was the most badass woman I had ever met in my life. Like, I was both scared of her and in awe of her and just enamored by her. And she just took, you know, no crap from anyone. She was strong. She was self-assured. She was confident. She was brilliant. She was amazing.

And I had this insane phobia of public speaking. Like, I would never in my life have been able to do this. And one day, all of a sudden it turns out that her class is judged on the ability to present in front of the class. That's how you get your grade. So I went and got a doctor's note.

Obviously. And I was like, no, like, I can't. I'm too scared. Like, I have a phobia. I have a clinical reason not to.

She ripped it up and she was like, oh, girlfriend. No, no, you're going to do this. You're going to be fine. Fast forward. Turns out she's not my mother-in-law.

No way. Yeah. So years later, I meet her son who's been raised by this unbelievable woman. And he invites me to dinner to a group dinner. I walk in.

She's across the table. I look at him. I go, I his professor heard here. Professor, that's my mom. And she goes, Whitney Wolf with the good eyebrows.

And I was like, oh, my God. But what is happening right now? So that is the grandmother to my baby. Oh, my other gave me chills. Yes, she's like the most powerful badass.

Cool. Did you pass the class? Yeah. But Michael. So my mother-in-law is a gay woman.

And so Michael always teases me that she gave every blonde and a.

And I was like, you know what? She's the same. I have good eyebrows. She did to say it. I have good eyebrows.

So no, but she's that I deserved it. I deserved the eye. So she's amazing. She's maybe the coolest person I've ever met in my life. And I just, you know, to have such a force of nature like that in my life.

This is this person that's now the grandmother to my children is such a gift. And I had no idea she even had a son. So it was kind of amazing. But to your point, like he was raised by that. So he respects me.

He respects strong women. And the more powerful I become, the more he. He admires me. And that was never the case I ever saw with men prior. Like any sense of power or any sense of strength was such a.

Like a threat to them. And obviously it's, you know, it's not that's not that's not great. I would go as far to say it's a turnoff. Yes.

I, like, I remember before Michael, I never got approached by anyone.

We both have Michael's, by the way. We both have Michael. Well, I think what the turnoff is for anyone. This is men and women in any dynamic is insecurity. Yeah.

We are inherently anybody is turned off by insecurity. Yep.

“But here's the thing that's funny is I'm intense and I'm strong.”

And I love to like come into my office and like lay it down.

And I love being a wife and like, I'm very like very in my feminine.

So I think you can have both.

“It doesn't have to be like one or the other.”

I could not agree more. I'm the same way. I know I can tell with you. And like Barbara Cooper, cozy mommy mode at home. It's gorgeous.

Where did I see that? Maybe Ark died? I just told it. Where did I see that though? I just seen it because somebody else bought it.

And it's on the internet now. Is that where I saw it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Probably. Okay. It's a beautiful. It was such a special place. So that's where you're going through every detail.

Is that like, are we like doing the base boards? Oh, no. Not there. That was a, like a super vintage. Hussianda from like 1800s.

It was extraordinary, super spiritual. It was a chapter. It was a chapter. We just, we, we chose, you know, I married to Texan. And there, it just, we needed to choose where to anchor.

And we chose that that was not our base. I love it there. I love my friends there.

I met the most yummy, amazing humans.

That will be like lifelong people. But it was a chapter. It was a season.

“And I think life, you know, we have these little seasons.”

You're husband going nuts over there. No, no, you was actually having a lot of fun. Do you mention your morning routine when you were grinding, which is your waking up at 3 a.m. You're breastfeeding, you're staring at the monitor, et cetera, et cetera.

What is your morning now look like when you feel anchored, when you're tuning into your soul and not your ego now? So I really, really, really try. I've fallen off the wagon a little bit, not, not to lie. You know, obviously, we all go through these ups and downs.

When I'm in my best routine, I'm waking up at 5.30. Saying my morning Montrose prayers, my meditation. I really like to start the day by and not like in a, you know, religious capacity, but like their universe, and then I pray for others.

Like the first thing I do is like pray for the people I know that are going through something hard. You know, if someone's struggling with something with health or someone's in it, I just wake up and just really say prayers for people to heal. And I just wish well on people. It's the first thing I do in the morning.

And I just feel like it just, it just gives this energy to the day that is,

like genuinely rooted in positive intention. And then I pray for the protection of my loved ones. And I give thanks to the universe, like just thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for every little thing I have. And so I just say these silent kind of Montrose and prayers in my head and try to be still.

And if I'm really good, I'll do TM, Bob Roth will be mad at me because I wasn't such a rhythm. I was doing it twice a day every day. And I was like on another planet of tapped in. But I have fallen off the wagon, they're a little.

“And then you know, I have a brand new baby.”

So I like to get up and go like smush her face. She's so delicious. And then it's like the day goes. But I'm kind of like you when I get into my routine. I'm like obsessed with the sauna, obsessed with the red light.

Have you ever tried the immortal bed? Is that the one that's got the like plate? It's like, it's a glass and it like sits. Yeah, it looks like it's going to mash. Yeah, yeah, they have it in Aspen.

I just go use it at the place. I know what you're talking about. It's got the sounds. It's cool. So like I'm doing all these things.

I ordered your thing that you promoted the shift way of thing. Like I'm trying to do all this shift. I have the power play. You know that shaky thing. I don't know if that works.

Oh, she's doing all the skins. You should see me. I'm listening to affirmations on the plate. I'm brushing my teeth doing post-directs or sighs looking outside trying to get you because. Yeah, I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. This is you. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more. I'm going to do a little more.

That's the one I wanted. That's a good one.

Maybe he is so good. I love him. I don't know anything about him because I think he predates us a little bit. Whatever I do know is just what I've listened to. I think he's amazing.

I'm assuming you will listen to him on the day. Yeah. I love Luis. I got super deep on the telepathy tapes. I haven't heard about that.

What's that? Oh my god. That's what is happening here. Okay. Start them immediately.

Run.

“And then you need to have Kai Dickens on your show.”

She did the telepathy. You and I are going to Google. But then the funny thing about this book. Yeah, yeah. I'll do it.

That's perfect. The funny thing though is I can go all down this rabbit hole. You want to go near death experiences. I've read a hundred books on it. But then.

You want to hear death experience. I don't know. I'm going to go fascinated with it.

And then if you want to talk business, I've read every, I mean, I actually was never a big business book reader.

Which ones do you think are worth reading? Because like here's a thing. I think same as you. I'm just kind of like, I kind of stopped reading them. Yeah.

Because they kind of be. They also say the same thing in a different format. And I'm also like, I don't want to be you as a leader. Like, I don't want to be you. Like, I want to be me.

Yeah. I just need tools to be a better version of me. So which do you like?

“Well, I think there's some iconic ones that like, everyone should read.”

My mind is blanking right now on my favorite one. But like, there's a couple just basics that everyone should read. Like, made in America. Sam Walton. Great book.

Everyone should read that. It's really more of a biography though. But in my mind, it understanding the human and the way someone moves through the world. That's my version of a business book. Like, I have zero interest in reading like how to scale your business for me.

Like, I'm just like, I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. I know how to scale. So you're good. I'm good.

I'm good. You can write all the books together. No. But like, that's just not what I'm going to do. I'm good.

I know how to scale. Wait. So you'll, so you'll go down rabbit holes when it comes to reading. Yeah. I'll go down like physics rabbit holes, philosophy rabbit holes.

Like, went full obsessed on philosophy. Are you reading Wayne or are you listening to Wayne? Oh, I like to listen to Wayne. I like his voice. Yes, right.

Let me ask you this. Oh, my god. That's so weird. This is a little bit of a gear shift. When you have the success that you've had and the headlines that you get.

How are you then after that able to decipher who's coming around you for the right reasons and who's looking for an opportunity? I don't hang out with anybody. What about your boyfriend? Okay. All my best friends.

I've either known. Okay. My best best friends. I've either known since my dearest friend in the world. Is my best friend from somewhere camp when we're 11.

Amazing. Okay. So she's my number one.

She actually is an incredible jewelry brand.

She's her name is Jesse Lizowski, Marla Lazz. If you haven't seen her stuff, it's to die for. She's so amazing. She's incredible. And then, you know, my other best girlfriends are like just true blue mom friends or my best college girlfriends.

I hang out with. I have like a pack of 10 people that are my writer dies. And then I just have like wholesome cozy family friends that like my husband and I are friends with the mom and the dad and we're friends with the kids. Like I kind of keep to myself. Do you think it's hard to really help anyone make good new friends because of the profile or do you think?

No. I'm super not like that. Like I don't really care if someone wants to be friends with me because a bumble and they're cool and funny and like God bless. Well, let's go. Like I mean as long as they're fun, like I'm in that stage of life.

“I'm like, if your vibe is hilarious, cool, connected fun, like use me if you want to.”

I'm just not like that. I'm like pretty chill. I'm not really guarded. I don't really think I'm anything special if that makes sense. Like I have a lot of friends that have started businesses and they like roll with security and they like super like important like sunglasses and a lot of places.

And I'm like, I'll just roll through the pharmacy or the grocery store. I'm like, I know one knows who I am. No, I'm not one person cares about me. People don't come up to you all the time. They, they do but not in like a, not in like the way you would expect.

They come up to me in the like, this is my bumble baby. That's cool. And I'm like, I love you. That is so cool. You know what, what I'm hearing throughout this interview is you've really mastered the science of achievement in the art of fulfillment.

Because with the art of fulfillment, you get the, you get helping people fall in love, which wasn't better than that and you're a bumble baby. I mean, that's that's very fulfilling. You're also the science of achievement with your career. It's so fruitful. You've really got them both.

I never thought about it that way.

But I think you do too. I, I do feel that I have that because the podcast is to me is fulfillment in my product line. Yeah.

It's amazing. It's amazing. My company.

“And by the way, you've changed my life with the mouth tape.”

So let's just put it out there. Well, we're, that, that's you're that. Yep. No, no, no. And I, and I, and I.

And that I brought real personally the most excited and fired up is like when people will come up and say some area of their life was changed for the better based on something they say. I mean, it's inclusive. That's why I've had a bumble baby. You know what? I will tell you.

The thing that does keep me going because let's just be real. Like work gets worky. He gets worky sometimes. It's the success stories. It's the people that tell me.

I mean, you can't even imagine the stories I've heard. It's the stories of people who have come back from grief. Met the love of their lives. Have multiple kids.

Never thought they would ever meet anyone.

Another thriving crazy story actually. When I had Bobby my first son here in Austin, the liver had him in Austin. I got super, super scary postpartum prey claims. Yeah.

And it up back in the hospital.

“And they were like touching go, God knows what's going to happen.”

It was quite scary. And this nurse came into my room. And she kind of felt like an angel, but she was real. I've confirmed. And she told me that she.

And by the way, if anyone can find this nurse, I want to speak to her. So if anybody can locate this person, please bring her my way. But she told me that she had to break head bun.

Come talk to me. Because she heard them talking about me at the nurse's station. Bumble girl, I probably sent like cookies or something.

You know, like I was always doing something for the nurse station.

She said, I had to come talk to you because she grabbed my hand. She goes, I was in an abusive marriage for decades. And I read about you. And I read about bumble. And I read about why you started bumble.

And so I got the courage to leave my husband. And when I got back on my own two feet and felt strength again, I downloaded bumble. And I have never in my life met anyone with his name before. And I had to come talk to you because he's my fiance now.

And he's the love of my life. And when you go back to the hospital with a motherhood, like a newborn mother related illness, they actually take you back to labor and delivery. They don't put you in normal ER or ICU.

They take you to labor and delivery and monitor you there for infection, reduction, all that. So as back in labor and delivery, and you remember having your babies,

they write mommy's name and baby's name out on the door.

And she said his name is Bobby Lee. And that's my son's name because we named him after my husband's grandfather. So I was like, okay, if that's not a testament to keep going and just like, like, you just got to keep on going when that gets hard. That's a sign.

That's a sign. Read the book signs. I cannot wait to read that as a huge sign. Yeah.

“Speaking of bumble, I think we'd be remiss.”

What is going on from your perspective reading the data, running a dating company? What is going on in the dating world? A lot of you, if you read the headlines, there's a lot of doom and gloom,

a lot of people saying they're giving up younger people, not getting into intimate relationships. I'm getting a little too swipy swipy. I mentioned on a show that people are concerned about people procreating is probably not having as many babies

that society's going to be crumbled because we're not procreating. What are you seeing? And what is the data show? The demand is 100% sold there. People want love and connection.

That is not left the building. It just has not. I think the way in which they're able to find love and connection is not serving them in a way that it used to. I think the swip has an admit to this.

I'm super self-aware and we're reinventing ourselves and we're building new features and functionalities. I think this like mass availability of mass people at all times at the tip of your fingers. It has weren't people out.

And it has gone from being what it was meant to be a dating app, which wouldn't send you away. It gets you on good dates, right? And then if the date goes well, hopefully it turns into a relationship or something fruitful.

Right now we're calling ourselves the love company because love doesn't have to be marriage and babies. But we want to put more love into the world. And we want to bring people together face-to-face in the real world. And so what we are doing right now is to meet the demand

of people wanting to meet their desperate to meet. They're doing anything. I mean, they're literally setting up these little clubs in their area and trying to meet people through anything. They're willing to go back to church when they're not even religious

because they want to meet people. That is the craving of the fabric of society right now. It's like people want to meet people. But they don't know how because of a few things. Being one, social media has completely desensitized everyone

and disconnected us. We are living through these alternate realities of what's real. Dating apps probably have played a role in this too because we were meant to be a dating app.

We're like, you were just swiped into the abyss, right?

Or maybe you got all these matches and they just never went anywhere.

These dead end chats and ghosting. And all of this heavy, like rejection layered with judgement and it just kind of taxed people. And so I see it as my duty. And this is part of why I am back is I'm a problem solver.

And I am certainly not going to leave the industry in the state that it's in right now, which is not in a bad place. It's just in a moment where it needs evolution. It does. It's not bad. It's not broken. It's not dead.

“I mean, I think Wall Street and the media are being super overreactive”

and way more pessimistic than they need to be. Partly they're, that's kind of the role they play in the world. So where I think things go from here is I think we're at the most interesting intersection I have personally ever arrived at in my career, which is where AI can just supercharge human connection.

So we are absolutely going to transform the way people meet. We are leaning into bringing people together through groups, through events, through in the real world. So my big vision for Bumble is in five years from now, every single person can meet someone through a Bumble, not on Bumble.

Maybe that's how to Bumble event. Maybe that's in a group. Maybe that's through a group date that you went on. A girlfriend of mine was telling me last night. She's dating someone right now that she met on Bumble.

And I was like, oh my God, where'd you meet? And where'd your match goes, well, I didn't. She said, I matched with this friend. And I went on a date with this friend and his friend brought him. But we clicked.

Me and my match didn't click. And my match realized that me and the friend clicked and was like, you two have something going on here. Now they're dating.

“So I believe that success in numbers is the next frontier.”

And so we're really focused on building capabilities that are AI powered. So it will be like as seamless and as efficient and as non-exhaustive as possible to get you on our products, BFF, which is doing very well with Gen Z in particular. And Bumble date to then get you offline to a safe meetup as quickly as possible.

We just want to bring people together in the real world and tell me what is more powerful

in this era of AI where we are really replacing everything and automating everything. Then human connection. That's funny. Like we're doing in Carson knows this as a company. Like this is a digital company.

There's a lot of digital content. But we're doing this year. We're doing the first one in May and we're doing another one at later. We're going to announce really that. But we're bringing people offline together.

Because I think it's so important. The company's like, why isn't your media partner with Bumble? Yeah, let's do it together. But yes. But to your point, I see what's happening here and I'm like, why?

Every time we do these events and I see everyone there and there's a happy hour and they're talking to their connection. Like that's the digital content should be a reinforcement and a tool to help you interact in the real world. Amen, my friend.

Right. Not like you shouldn't live in a bubble online. Right. It weren't designed that way. It's, you know, I got a lot of, I'm sure you dealt with this too.

When COVID happened, everybody went remote. And slowly, but surely I've been kind of enforcing and making people get back in person. And like, listen, people kick and scream about that. I want to flex a bit. I said, no, would you know, I want people to connect in life with each other.

“That's why you end up caring about something.”

It's why you end up caring about people. Like staring at a screen. Remember what we were doing. Those happy hours on the screen on the screen. One of the most depressing times in my life is sitting there having a whiskey.

Looking at a bunch of screen. I'm talking on a video. I don't even remember what I'm talking about. I get texts. I can say 10 or 10 of them.

I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm going to stare at a screen. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that.

I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. One of the most depressing times in human history world. Sitting alone in your house, drinking, looking at each other. I can't really agree.

I think it, like, reminding people that, like, hey, we're designed for connection and to be around each other. We are better together. We are better together. It's genius, though, to use AI as the tool that it is to then get the connection, which is the meat of what is needed. So let's talk about the other reasons you decided to come back.

You left. You stepped down and said, you brought another CEO. Yeah. And you, it was it you wanted to do. Do you want the real reason?

Well, you're sitting around. You're not going to believe the real reason. It's a little woo-woo. No one knows the story. No one knows the story and on.

Go ahead. Hey, you want the real reason. I came back. What's the story? Okay, so here's the real deal.

I was very happy and I did not want to be a CEO again. I was loving. I was living in love with Aloka. Okay, I was having a great time. However, I am, I'm an entrepreneur.

I don't know what to tell you. I mean, listen.

If someone's a painter, just because they get tired doesn't mean they're like never going to paint again.

I need to build. I need to solve problems. I need to create. I need to put things into the world. It is who I am.

However, swear on my life, I had no intention of going back to Bumble. And I love love love the woman that was RCEO for a year.

“I think she's, she's brilliant, remarkable.”

She for her own reasons. Like nothing bad. Like nothing weird. Truly decided it was her time to go. And she was like, I'm just like, this isn't right from me right now.

Whatever. And I think she's brilliant. There was no falling out. We've keep in touch. I think she's lovely.

But I was like, okay, well. I mean, I'm not the, I don't think I can go and do this again. Like I don't know if I can just like go back. This isn't really what I wanted from my life right now. I had kind of like had this itch to start something new.

I was like thinking of new companies and new products. But the weirdest thing happened about a week before she let me know was I had this like crazy download.

Which was that my purpose on earth was basically to help people find love.

So I was off trying to find other ways to do it. I was like, oh, well, it'll start a company for this or a company for that. Like I was thinking of all these other businesses. And I just kind of when she decided it was like the right moment for her to move on to her next thing. I felt like the universe was pulling me and just doing it for me.

You started this conversation off by saying things don't happen to you. They happen for you. And I was like, this is clearly happening for me. But I wasn't convinced. So before I agreed to like really go all back in, I did what any really, really smart saying business person does.

And I called my psychic medium. You got a text me that. Laura Lynn Jackson. Laura Lynn Jackson. And you know what's funny.

I have like a crazy network of brilliant business people. But before I texted them, I was like, she's my friend. I get my go-do, I got a collar. I got it. So I was like, I was like, Laura Lynn.

Here's the deal. Like what am I meant to do? I'm like having so much fun. I'm like starting these new companies.

They're going to be billion dollar businesses.

And I'm like loving life with my husband and my kids. And like, you know, doing my thing. And she goes, okay. I'm getting a message from your, you know, like past one. Like someone that I love that had passed.

She's like, he's telling me to look on the back of your husband's belt. And I'm like, okay, like, I got to go. Like, I'm going to go see yo. Like, I can't do this. This is going to do it.

She's like, no, like, I'm being shown this like belt buckle. Like a silver belt buckle with a bunch of like, like, a silver, like a, like a scene. There's like a scene on the front of this belt buckle. And I'm like, huh.

Like, oh, I actually know what she's talking about. Like a rodeo belt buckle. Oh, look at my God. It's my husband's like Texas rodeo belt buckle. So my husband does this like iconic, like, boys trip,

rancher, like cowboy thing. And whoever wins this like championship thing they put on gets this like belt buckle.

“And I was like, I think I know what she's talking about.”

She goes, okay, I'm getting this persistent message. You've got to go look on the back of the belt buckle. She's dating them. The message is on the back of the, but you're going to know what to do. If you're going back to CEO or not, I'm not going to tell you the answer.

Go get the belt buckle and look on the back of the belt buckle. And whatever is there is your answer. And you will know right away. And I was like, okay, I think I need to like take it down. Like we're going to, we're going to like move on.

So I get home and I kind of forget about it. And then it hits me and I'm like, Michael, where's your belt buckle? And he's like, my wife, I'm like, where's the big belt buckle? The silver belt buckle. And he's like, oh, and the room, I'm like, go get it.

So he gets this belt buckle. And he brings it back. And it is, in fact, the big silver belt buckle with the Texas scene on it. And we turn it over and inscribed in the back of the belt buckle. Every single word is the man in the arena by Theodore Roosevelt.

Oh, my favorite quote. It is how I've like measured my career. Being like just being there arena. Like every day you got to get out there. Even if you get married, even if you're like mudied and covered in blood.

Like at least you're not in the nose, please. At least you're in that arena. And I was like, I'm going back.

“91% of dog parents say their pup is an important member of the family.”

And 40% would even save their dog over a human stranger. It's safe to say that people are obsessed with their dog.

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“Through their app, you can actually check in on your dog's health with real vets.”

All you to do is you upload a picture. And then their team can check out on your dog's weight, digest, and teeth, and coat.

I really like this because my children always have a weepy eyes and getting them on real food.

It's been an absolute game changer for their eyes. So with this, I'm able to just upload a picture. And I can actually get a real update on their health. Get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to allie.com/scanine.

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“Every single morning, I wake up and I give my kids their supplements.”

And one of the supplements that we give our kids every single day is beekeeper's natural. So there is this propolis throat spray. I'm sure you guys have seen it everywhere.

It's yellow. It's amazing.

They have an adult version that Michael and I use all the time, but they also have a kid's version. And why I like this for my kids is it's your daily dose of immunity. So this is going to be proactive for the immune system all year round. I also like it too when their sick. It feels really soothing on the throat. And the best part about it is it delivers antioxidants like flavonoids that fight free radicals and combat stress.

I carry this in my hand bag. We have it in our supplement drawer. Michael has it and is carrying on all the things. If you're on beekeeper's natural site, I also recommend getting their nasal spray. I have loved to use this every single time I've been sick this year. It's a non-toxic, non-habit forming an nasal spray and it cleanses and sues the nasal passage.

So how I use this is any time I'm feeling like I'm having a histamine response. Or I feel like I'm getting a cold. I'll use it. I mean, it's the best nasal spray I've ever used. They also have a throat suether and a vitamin C liposomal. So you really can't go wrong with other products.

Today beekeeper's natural is giving our listeners an exclusive offer. Go to beekeepersnaturals.com/gene or innercodeskene to get 20% off your order. That's bee, K-E-E-P-E-R-S, and a T-U-R-A-L-S.com/gene or innercodeskene. Beekeepers, naturals, products are also available at Target, Whole Foods, Wal-Mart, Amazon, CDS, and Wal-Greens. Quick break to talk about free nicotine.

I love free nicotine. I have been a nicotine user for years and I've constantly dabbled in experimenting with nicotine as something that can help my brain focus, help me get shit done, and keep me on my game.

“Many are aware that nicotine is addictive and a chemical and you have to be very careful with it.”

But many are also unaware that it can be used as a tool for focus, for cognitive performance, and to potentially guard against brain related diseases. They have three million pouches for somebody who's just starting with nicotine, six, nine, twelve, and fifteen for people that are experienced. And free exists for the ones that want to stay sharp when it counts.

Like I said, I use it when I need to do this podcast, when I need to focus, when I really need to get stuff done, and I love it for it's cognitive and enhancing benefits. It's also great because it comes in these discrete slim pouches for anywhere smoking can't and vaping won't and dip shouldn't. There's been a ton of high performers that have come on this podcast from Dave Asprey to RFK Jr. to some comedians, people who really want to feel their best and really focus when they're doing a show like this,

or when they want to get stuff done. That's how I use it. So if you've been thinking about experimenting with nicotine, free nicotine is a great company to try, and like I said, you can really control the dosage and the strength. So check them out, try free nicotine pouches today at free pouch.com and use code skinny for 25% off for new customers only that's FRE pouch.com again free pouch.com and use promo code skinny.

Introducing the skinny confidential ice roller. Reimagined. Think a sleeker lines, a softer pink, a custom buttery dust bag, and a silver roller, not pink anymore, that is ice colds. I wanted to do a rose on the iconic ice roller. I wanted to update it.

This ice roller for me has always been more than just a tool.

It's about helping us dipuff and sculpt and calm the skin in a way that feels intentional, and I wanted the ice roller to feel evolved. It's changed. You've changed. So yes, the new gorgeous stunning beautiful ice roller is still going to do the same things. It reduces puffiness and redness in your face. I used it this morning. Before I put on my makeup, it definitely helps with the under eye bags.

I just feel like it really helps stimulate blood flow and gives me that tighter, more radiant skin.

And then it also is known to give you a smoother, tighter looking skin. So what I like to do is I like to combine facial massage with cold therapy, and this really helps give you a really nice foundation before you even apply your skin care. This ice roller for me is a full circle moment.

“I think that a lot of you bought the ice roller five, six years ago when we launched it.”

And now I am launching something that feels more in alignment with where you're at. It's so beautiful, you guys. It's just softer and more effortless in every way. And I really put my own touches on every single little step from the packaging to the colors to how it feels to even the roller. It's all been elevated just for you. So the ritual, the Lauren ritual is you do cold therapy to help fight inflammation.

You roll it, you've glided across your face. I put it on my jawline, my neck, I roll it down. Your skin is just going to appear smoother and tighter before you go in for the kill with the skin care and the makeup.

Don't skip the cold therapy.

The new ice roller is an upgrade designed to meet the standards of today. And I hope you guys love it as much as I do. This is the beauty tool that started at all redesigned to evolve with you. I'm showing it on YouTube too, if you're on YouTube, if you're seeing me visually. Get it why it's hot at shop sconyconfidential.com.

That's shop sconyconfidential.com. We prep for all these shows. Yeah. And one of the things I said to the team, I was like, I guarantee you the reason this person goes back is because they're not built to sit on the sidelines and relax. It's just not possible.

You can't you can't build the way you have and then and be as productive as you've been and then one day like be unproductive. I like it and a lot of people like their ambition is to one day like take it easy and relax and that's fine and eat teach the wrong. But I think for someone like yourself who is a builder and a creator and you're not wired to sit like that. Actually, I think that would make you more anxious and more stress and cause a lot of actual unhappiness and you're just sitting around.

Like I am meant to change things in the world that I do not like or cause people harm or stress or make improvements like I like to improve things. And now we get you an Austin. Oh yeah.

“Before you go, you have to tell me how you manage your time.”

What gets your time and attention? Why did you come on this show? What is worthy of your time? I love you. Oh, not you. Just me.

You too. No, I love you too, but I, okay, I just really, I vibe with you. Oh my god. I'm very, let me tell you what I like about you so much.

Here's the thing I love about you so much.

Are you guys, because of the moment? Yeah, we're having a moment. I love that you are multifaceted and unapologetic about it. I find that a lot of women that have found a lot of success or are really like career oriented have a hard time being vulnerable. About the other components of their life.

Like if they're like a strong business woman, like they're a strong business woman and that's the only side you're ever going to see. And it's like almost like just this like shell that you'll never see beyond or behind it. And that's just we're made up of a lot of parts all of us are we're multifaceted. And so I love that you are unapologetic about being like a nurturing, loving, mom being cozy and like making a home and making it feel special. But then like being a total boss at work and like having these different sides of you and I don't I don't personally know.

“So so so many people like that and I don't know I just I like I like you I think you're cool and I think you're really cool too.”

And I love your show and I think you have honest open vulnerable conversations and frankly that's where I'm at my life. Like I just want to be real and open and I have nothing to hide and I just think more authenticity is better for. For the world. I will take that coming from the world's youngest female billionaire. I think I am.

There's like all sorts of other words. I mean I'll take. I mean listen. I better get some good compliments. There's so many other young people.

When you're not here and when you go and you will list the. I just want to know though. I do have to just know like this is a selfish question that I would ask you off air. Is the calendar crazy? Are you a psycho?

Is it color coded? I just want to know like I just want to know. Oh everyone else color. Everyone has to color. Okay.

And it's like I can tell what color. Like what if you like are you someone who's like get the fucking meeting in seven minutes? You know what I've started doing? What? Don't tell anyone.

Fine. Only a few people listen. So you want to hack. Yeah. Fish and see how.

So I've when I was on Matt leaf and just had my baby you know a few months ago.

Yeah, you got to tell us about that. I mean, I'm like if I ever have another kid. I'm getting an epidural bright when I get to the hospital.

“Why think you're going to say you're going to do a natural birth again?”

Oh no, what one is good? Okay. I'm glad I did. Okay.

All of that to say when I was on Matt leaf, I had you know I was trying really hard to at least for the first several weeks.

Be like very present with my children. I just do that so much. But I really couldn't just like disappear. Clearly not. I'm the CEO of the company and I'm like in the middle building a lot of stuff.

And I care and I want to make it right. So I would ask people to record videos for me of what they take me through a meeting. But just record it. Send it to me. And then I would listen to it at like 2.5x.

So my husband one day walked into the kitchen. And there was like, "Difficult. What is that?" I'm hearing an update on something that they're working on. And he's like, "How do you even hear that?"

So I've trained myself to listen to things that like the maximum speed. And so then I could get through like 15 updates. And these videos were like 15 minutes long, 22 minutes long, 46 minutes long. And I was just plowing through them and I was taking notes. I will tell you something.

It takes a lot to get my husband interested in someone. I can tell you after this episode. He wants to hang out with you. He's very interesting. He loves interesting people.

If you weren't, I would have cut the show about 40 minutes. No, sometimes I look over at him. His eyes are glazing over his head. Are you bored? No, no, no, no.

We're at the last one. I mean, you're, you, I'm multifaceted. You're really, it's an octopus. Like, multifaceted. My sign is a pink octopus.

We'll talk about that later. I like multifaceted strong women with big personalities. I'm not shocked. You're kind of picky with your woman friends.

“And that's why I'm like, it's interesting to interview you because I know the kind of girl he likes as a friend.”

And you guys. Yeah, but I like the job. It's funny. I just told you this morning. I was like, God.

But your friends are so surfaced. To your point about Lauren. It's like, for me, like, yes, she's beautiful. And all of those things, there's an attraction. But I find what people, like, what's kept me interested since the beginning and so long.

It is that, like, we can laugh. She can do work. She can be serious. Yeah. And then, like, she can also, you know, be self-deprecating.

So, like, sometimes people see our banishment. Like, what's going on here?

And I think it's the people that want to, always, they want to present in a certain way.

And they want to show. Like, it's, you know what it is? The people that get uncomfortable with that, this kind of dynamic. It's the ones that are posting pictures of themselves skipping on the beach. Yes.

Which is going to be going to be another and hugging under the sunset. The image. Yeah. Yeah. The image.

It's like all about the image. It's like, yeah. That's going to know. And I think, like, to your point. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Life is messy. People are messy. And sometimes the people that have it, the most together also have a lot of other terrible things going on.

“And I think we like to have that dynamic.”

That act totally is that hack. To do a meeting and speed it up is genius. No, it's, it's honestly. Do we still? Oh, it's such a good efficiency hack.

I didn't even.

I had never even meant to do it.

It's just when I was on my leave. I couldn't do zooms all day. And like, I'm so sick of these zooms. What I do and do is make cars and talk at 3x speed. No.

He has to get all his thoughts at 3x speed. Yeah. He has to get it all. Yeah. Yeah.

The entire company has to speed. He has to tell you that this interview was worth waiting 10 years for. Yeah. I also think, and I don't know how you do this. Michael, that this should be like the beginning.

We're rebranding to the boss. This to me is like the conversations that I'm excited about. You come back on your right now. I'll be back. You're welcome.

The other thing I want to tell you all that I really think is game changing. Yes. I don't know if you've done any of this yet. But I've taught myself how to build stuff on AI. So I'm like.

Which one? I'm like a vibe coder now. No way. Talk yourself how to build. So like, if I have an idea and this is cool for you to keep in mind.

If I have a concept, I used to have to sit down with my product team. Pitch it to them. Hope and pray that they understood what I was saying. Then get a designer to like mark it up. Wire frame it.

Okay. That would take six weeks. And then we'd have to put it through like this. That this at that. And I could say all the good ideas went to die.

It was like a dungeon of good idea death. And so now I just tell my little digital technical friend. Which platform are you using? I like cloud. Okay.

Like cloud. I like cloud. I like cloud code. I've been playing on perplexity computer a little bit. Have you tried that?

I've tried cloud. I've not tried perplexity. Okay. The cloud.

My bud. And I basically had cloud.

“I said turn into my technical co-founder in life.”

And just pretend you're my technical co-founder. So your job is to bring my visions to life. But make them smarter. Better. Press your test them against these investors.

And these minds. And make like build like a bench. Like like like go and test it against a advisory board. Poke holes in it. Bring it back to me in a better way.

Let me review it. And then I want you to design it. As if Johnny Ive and Steve Jobs got together with the designers of AirMES. And I like give it the most absurd prompts. You don't chat.

You've got to like I mean. We're going to get you a cloud. Well, I like chat. BT. I love chat.

You need to use a little like. It's a little bit like patch on the back. Everything you're doing is right. You know. I will.

I told it not to do that. Yeah, you have to go. I went into setting. I was like being linked to me. I'm a little.

I'm not about me. You think about me. Yeah. Yeah. It's all fucked up.

Okay. So I'm going to go. Maybe I'll get a vibe coding. You need to start by coding. And we'll show each other our vibe code ideas.

Because if you have like a concept. So I've had like a few ideas that I really want to build. So I'll build them. I'll make mockups. And then I started a thread at Bumble last week.

It's like Bumble build ideas or something. I can't remember what we called it. And I've asked the whole company to do it. So like if you have an idea, just vibe code it. And maybe we'll build it for real.

People are very concerned about jobs. Oh. What do you think? What do you think from what you're seeing from a personal perspective? Are you thinking AI is especially, I guess.

You know, with tech. Are you thinking this is going to replace a lot of people? Or is it going to? I will replace people that don't know how to operate, drive, command and control AI. If you don't know how to be the boss of AI and direct AI and control AI and build and scale agents and mobilize the agents and run it like an agents.

If you can't run a team of agents, you probably won't be able to run a team at the best companies in a year from now. That's interesting.

“So you have to be able to command that's interesting.”

And you can go practice that. But here's the thing. Anyone can do it. You know, I think people are so scared about this.

But at one point, we were like technology always changes and always involves.

At one point, we were literally plowing fields with horses in our hands. And we don't do that anymore. And so it's right. Right. I think this idea, like, of course, it will 100% displace and replace people that do not evolve with the times.

But the whole idea is that you evolve. And if you're doing something that AI can do much faster, more efficiently easier without the cost. Like, yeah, you should probably start figuring out, like, how to evolve. Absolutely. Just sit there and be like, I hope it doesn't happen.

It's going to help. I think it makes you more creative. You know how to, if you know how to lean into it. In person is going to be even more important in a more digital world where all this, like, people are going to crave in my opinion.

You cannot replace human connection. You cannot, as much as even that. And this is too much information. Like, what happens at the sex robot comes, like, I don't know if I want to be sitting with a sex robot all the time. I think, are you going to fuck a sex robot?

Well, do you consider a cheating? Yes. Are you kidding? Do you even have to ask that? Then no.

Okay. Oh, my God. I want to walk in and you're fucking a sex robot. I know. Well, listen.

But at one point, these robots, I'm good.

But here's what I'm saying.

Even if they're getting more vulnerable. Even if they're getting more vulnerable. Even if they're getting more vulnerable. A proactive robot, whatever, what's going to happen is at some point. Deep down, you're going to sit there and be like, I am hooking up with a robot.

No. You made for each other. But you're going to have to look yourself in the mirror. Really into grounding. So I don't feel like a fake penis would do it for me.

I like to ground with the frequency. No, but you know, we had Gary Vee's a friend. And he was on to the people will be. He thinks that people will marry a. I bought robots in the future.

“I think that the most valuable thing five years from now is human to human connection.”

I agree. I agree. Which is why I think I'm in the best business. And I think y'all are in a really good business too. I would agree with that.

Bumble is partnering with leading happiness expert who has been on this show. Author and professor author Arthur Brooks. What have you been on? Yeah. That's what I just said.

And so how do everyone sign up for Bumble BFF and Bumble? And where can they find you to say hi? Find me to say hi. Maybe they want to. Oh, I'm starting a group on Bumble BFF today, actually.

That's cute. Yes. You should start one too. So what do I do? Okay, so I'll show you how.

But I'm going to start a group where I'm just going to chat with any women that want to join my group and ask me to draw questions or kind of get mentored or anything like that. And then I want to learn from them too. I want to know like, tell me everything going on.

So but Arthur Brooks is incredible.

He understands connection better than anybody out there. I'm an ordinary desire, guys.

And I believe that the way you find happiness according to him is right.

“Like you need to have a connection with yourself with a higher power and with each other.”

And if you can do that, you're going to have a fulfilling life. Agreed.

How can people sign up for Bumble?

“Everyone that is single, I don't care if you're 18 or 80, you should get on Bumble.”

We're also rolling out a brand new Bumble, like overhauled meticulous redesign the summer. So stay tuned.

So many new features are coming.

“I am going to make this the dating app that women have been waiting for.”

I am going to fix women's dating problems. Again, and again, and again, like, I'm going to keep going and then just download BFF. You can find girlfriends in your area groups to go do things. There's like groups for everything under the sun from book clubs to make up to anything you can imagine. You don't need to be lonely wherever you are, wherever you're listening from.

Like BFF is there for finding your people plotonically. And Bumble is there to find your love. We need a Whitney book club on Bumble BFF. Let's do it. Let's do a woo woo club.

You and I will start one. I'm in.