Bonus: Legacy

Murder in the Heartland explores real crimes across small town America, towns that might look a lot like your own. Every week uncover shocking stories of murder and betrayal, from a suspicious hunting accident, to a college student who disappears after her shift at the local bar.

Here from investigators, witnesses, and family members as they share the chilling details behind each case. If you're interested in true crime with a small town twist, you might love this podcast. Listen to Murder in the Heartland, wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Brad Milke, the host of ABC's Start Here podcast. And if you're joining us today, it's because you just listen to the latest series from ABC Audio and 2020, the snare. Welcome to a special bonus episode. 'Cause if you're like me, you're listening with Bated Breath,

as it was revealed that this brutal killing, the rape and murder of 18-year-old Angie Dodge in her apartment, leads to a false confession from Chris Tap,

despite the fact that his DNA never matched the DNA found at the crime scene.

You've got a trial, a conviction, and then Angie's own mother, who once advocated it for a death penalty sentence, fighting to exonerate Chris Tap. Well, today we're gonna dig more into how all of this went down. We're gonna do it with the host of the show, Maggie Rooley.

In fact, later we will hear directly from someone involved in the case. So, thanks for being here, let's get this going. We got my colleague and good friend Maggie Rooley with us. Hey, Maggie. Hey, Brad, so happy to be here with you.

Um, most people might not know this.

“You and I said next to each other at ABC News headquarters for years, right?”

So, I can't even calculate the number. The best years in my career, Brad. Right, I can't even calculate the number of hours we have spent discussing stories, but I've been waiting to pick your brain about this one in particular, 'cause it's so well told, but what made you want to tell this story, Maggie?

Yeah, Brad, we've worked on so many stories next to each other over the years, but this one is really incredible. I think what's amazing about this story is that it really shows how one crime can hurt, affect so many people than at the core of it. You have this one crime and how it ruined people's lives.

Not only obviously Angie Dodge, who had her life stolen from her at 18, not only her family, her mom, Carol Dodge, whose lives were upended when she lost her daughter, but also the man falsely accused, Chris Tapu, then goes to prison for decades, right?

So you have two victims here, one crime and so many people that are just never the same afterwards.

This is your first podcast with ABC News, what was it like working in this medium? It was amazing, Brad, you know, I'm so used to working on TV where you can rely on video and audio, but this was fascinating, because you really realized how powerful the voice can be,

“and there's this one moment for me, Brad, that I'll never forget, really taught me that lesson,”

and it's really the end of the podcast, and we hear from Andrew's mom, Carol, and, you know, Carol's just a incredible force of nature, and she's talking about what it's like when they finally get the right man behind bars, and you don't see her face, but you just hear her voice and the emotion, it's raw, there's still so much pain and grief, and there's this relief and joy mixed in in this moment, and it's something I'll never forget,

you know, I must have listened to that sound bite, I mean dozens of times, Brad, and every time, I would start to tear up, and again, I never saw her face, I just heard her words, but those words were so powerful, and I think sometimes hearing a voice can almost mean more than seeing their face, because your force just to listen. Yeah, I find sometimes Maggie, like you can almost hear the emotion before you before the tears of the flow, right, and you hear it for 100%. What surprised

you the most about this story, because there are so many twists and turns here? Yeah, you really

never know what's coming, Brad, and I think the biggest surprise in this story is who ends up

supporting Chris Tap? He ends up confessing to this crime, he's convicted, he goes to prison, you have Carol, Angie's mom, wanting the death penalty for Chris Tap. Now, when it comes to Carol, I mean, Brad, I'm not sure about you, but I don't know if I've ever really heard of a victim's mother supporting the man convicted of killing her child before, I mean, just imagine that partnership, but that's how much those interrogation tapes changed her, that she not only believed

him, but was one of his biggest supporters called, you know, his attorney advocated for him, went out of her way to free him from prison. And then you have this other man, Jamie Sarges,

“a friend of Chris's who at the very beginning of the podcast, so remember that in Chris's”

interviews with police, he falsely linked Jeremy to the crime. Jeremy denied ever being involved in Angie's rape and murder, he had an alibi the night Angie was killed, and his DNA was not a match. He was charged with being an accessory to a felony, but the charge was eventually dropped. Jeremy was cleared as a suspect, but he says despite being cleared, it rocked his world.

part of this crime, even though he was cleared of any guilt. At our Jeremy, he also watched the interrogation tapes, and he said after watching them, it changed his perception of Chris instantly. Here's Jeremy talking about watching the footage. Well, while I was watching these tapes, I felt like a sports fan or something like that. You see the guys screaming out the TV and get all emotional with the TV. I felt like that guy.

“I was yelling at him. Why did you say that? Didn't you hear what they just said? Why did you say that?”

Dude, what are you doing? And so it was a whole new light on the subject.

And so you have this unbelievable character arc, which again is almost too incredible to believe.

Maggie, hearing that that is the crux of the entire podcast for me is hearing someone in the moment, like under this intense spotlight, the police interrogation, implicating others in a crime that isn't true, but implicating himself, too. And it goes to show you sort of what you're talking about with with Carol. The mother just how important the contact of hearing the whole tapes is did Chris and Jeremy ever have like a moment of reconciliation? Yeah, they did. You know, Jeremy

said that shortly after you watched that interrogation footage, which can Brad, there's like some 60 hours of interrogation footage and polygraph tapes, he sent a letter to Chris in prison.

And here's what Jeremy said. He wrote in his letter. I wanted to know that I finally see

what happened to him. And I'm sorry. That is what happened to him. And then make sense to me now. I just wanted to do to make sure that he knew that I cared. And I just wanted Chris to know that I was there for him. And I understand how his confession happened. And Brad, it's incredible. Jeremy told ABC that he's forgiven Chris and that he's let any anger towards him go. You said something that I think is so important, that those tapes are kind

of the crux of the podcast. And I have to say myself, Brad, when I first started looking into the story and hearing about the story, I think for many people, you hear someone give a confession, and you can not, and you're right, mind, imagine, why would you ever confess to something you did not do? It's almost hard to wrap your mind around and having gone through this podcast, hearing so much of those interrogation tapes from Chris hearing, you know, the brilliant analysts

that ABC has interviewed, you actually start to understand it.

“And I think that's what Jeremy's talking about here, right? Like, this is someone who”

falsely implicated him in a rape and murder. Then he goes back and watches and listens to these tapes. And that turns into forgiveness because he sees what happened to his friend. Right, like a full circle moment and like at this moment of empathy that I think is difficult to

even comprehend it so powerful. Hey, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back,

we're going to talk with Maggie about what happened to Chris after these moments and after his exoneration, what was life like after prison, that's after the break. My grandfather's Charles Manson, a hulu original true crime documentary. I submitted my DNA to unlock my grandfather's sealed records. This is all the phone calls that I had with Charles. She's the key. You're caught up in the biggest lie in the history of lies to unlock Manson's

untold secrets. How could my blood do something so asrocious? The hulu original, my grandfather Charles Manson, now streaming on hulu in hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers, terms apply. In a sunny California in summer, one family's home is unusually quiet. When detectives walked into that house, they said that it was like time just stood still. It's 2010, and the mixed day family is nowhere to be found. Inside the home, no clear answer

where the family could have gone. Husband and wife and two children all gone, like, puff disappeared. The search for the mixed days quickly captures the nation. But for years,

“the search for answers only brings more questions. Who's ever heard of an entire family going missing?”

A family of four doesn't just drop off the face of the earth with no contact. Is this a family on the run? Or is the truth far more sinister? For maybe see audio in 2020, this is what happened to the mixed days. Coming August 11th wherever you get your podcast, or subscribe to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts for ad-free episodes, early access to new episodes, and so much more.

for bundles of subscribers, from supply.

“Hey Maggie, I want to talk about Chris's life post-prison, so he's just spent”

20 years behind bars for a crime he didn't commit knowing it was his own words that put him there. How do you rebuild your life after that? Yes, such a good question, Brad. I mean we have to

think about Chris when he first went to prison, right? He was just 21 years old. Think about what

you were like when you were 21. He was still a kid in many ways, and then he finds himself convicted of rape and murder facing life in prison, and he sits there for the next 20-plus years of his life. So yes, he has released. Yes, he's eventually exonerated, but he says it himself. Those 20 years are huge years, right? Your 20s, your 30s, it's when maybe you're going to school or building a career or having kids, and he missed all of that. So while he finds himself,

you know, in his 40s, released free for the first time, starting over in a way. And Chris said that being sent to prison came with a lot of loss. I lost a lot of friends, I lost a lot of family

“in. You know, you accept that, and you have to make it in your mind. Nothing you could do about it.”

You know, Brad, the biggest thing Chris said he lost was time. And Chris was trying to make up for

that when he was released. You know, in his obituary, it says that Chris got to experience some of his biggest dreams in those years that he was free. He went to a live NFL game, WWE match. He got to see Metallica and Kiss in concert. So he did try to make up for those years that he lost by simply just living life. He also became an advocate. He traveled the country, talking about his story, talking about going away to prison for a crime. He did not commit and he became an advocate for

post-conviction reform. He worked closely with the Innocence Project. And he dedicated himself to making a real change based on what he lived through. It changed for others because it like we heard in the show. He actually did help get legislation passed. Yeah, he really made a difference with his efforts. And in 2021, Idaho passed the Wrongful Convictions Act. And this law, it will compensate wrongfully convicted victims up to $62,000 for each year. They were incarcerated

75,000 for every year if they were on death row. And this is a major deal, right? This is something that Chris was passionate about. He worked with The Innocence Project. They really credit Chris for helping get the law passed. When Idaho signed this into law, Chris was at the signing ceremony, which took place at the Bonneville County Courthouse, the same courthouse where he was ultimately exonerated. So you talk about these full circle moments, right, Brad? I mean, there's another one

for you. But then you said something else that stuck out to me. You said in his obituary, this was said about him. Because so Chris spent two decades in prison. He gets exonerated in

“2019. Four years later, I think he dies at the age of 47. What do we know about his death”

and the circumstances? Yeah, this is part of the story, Brad, that I think we all really wished when another way. I think I wish I could say right now. This man was finally free. He lived in

amazing life. He has a family and a career. And he tried for those four years when he was free.

But then at just age of 47, like you mentioned, according to the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, Chris thought to an altercation with another man, a former pro wrestler, a one-time evatic congressional candidate, Daniel Rotimer, personnel responded and they report that there was a man who we now know is Chris suffering from injuries. Chris was then taken to the hospital and declared dead about just a week later. Eventually, Rotimer was arrested and charged with open

murder. He pleaded not guilty and he denies the allegations. He and his attorneys have filed a motion to dismiss the indictment, which the judge denied. A trial set for early 2027. Such a bizarre circumstance, too. This whole story out of Las Vegas. I mean, Chris taps family, like he still has family and they've been through so much these last few years. How do they want him to be remembered? How do they describe him? Yeah, you know, it's such a good point. We talk

about Carol so much in his podcast, the mom of, you know, Angie, who was raped and murdered. But you know, we also talk about the mom of Chris Tap. She's also there in the courthouse when he's being sentenced when he's being exonerated. You know, she lost her son to prison for 20 plus years. And then four years after his release, she lost her son again. And in his obituary, you know, his family said he wanted Chris to be remembered as a man who was a quote, "big teddy bear."

So Beturi says he was funny, kind, and caring. Someone who'd give you the shirt off his back.

storytelling and work by you and the team. Thank you so much for taking this little deeper here.

No, of course, Brad. So great talking to you as always.

All right. We're going to take another quick break. Let me come back. We're going to talk with one of Chris's earliest advocates of forensic DNA expert who took on his case and hear what he wants

“us to remember, but the man he eventually considered a friend, as after the break.”

All right. We're back. And we've got a special guest with us for the rest of this episode. Greg Ham Kekeen was the founder of the Idaho Innocence Project. He's a biologist and forensic DNA expert who's worked on a number of high profile cases like the man in Knox case, the Carrie Robinson case. Thank you so much for being with us, Greg. Glad to be here. Hey, the Innocence Project special litigation team, they're based in New York. They got involved around 2015, but the Idaho Innocence

Project, you guys got involved in Chris's case much earlier. So I'm wondering, how did you learn about the case and what were your initial thoughts about it? Back in 2007, we were forming the Idaho Innocence Project. And we're got out that we were looking for cases. And Chris Tap was one of the first people to write to us and was one of the first two cases that that we took. At first, when he wrote to us, you know, he explained his case, we looked into it and there was DNA that was

used that his trial. So a jury already saw DNA evidence and that excluded him and they still

“convicted him. And so it was a really hard case. Well, and you've met Chris Tap, right?”

I mean, what were your initial impressions of him? Chris, what was my initial impression? You know, we became really besties after he got out. But, you know, meeting someone in prison

is always a stilted terrible situation. Chris was not too hopeful that we could do anything for him.

I think this new organization also, you know, it was kind of a stilted but warm meeting when I went to see him in prison. Then he, you know, he'd call and we'd talk. How was he doing when he was behind bars? I guess. Oh, it was hard. He was thrown into prison. A very innocent kind of a guy. I mean, just his mentality wasn't like a gang member or something. And so he grew up in the prisons. And he learned how to live there fairly tough. You know, he toughened up very fast. And I think it was,

I don't think it was something he ever overcame was his education in the prisons for 20 years. Were you at his ex-oneration hearing, by the way, what was it like? Well, so there were two,

you know, there were two times. So the first time they just let him out of prison.

Right. They released him from prison and dropped the rape conviction. Yeah, they still called him a murderer. They dropped the rape charts. Even though all the evidence was the same, you know, but they didn't want to drop the murder charge. And Chris, that was Chris's decision. Should he continue from prison to prove his absolute innocence and or does he take the steel and get out? And he took the deal. But we were able to continue working on the case.

So I mean, it was that that first thing that had a mixed emotional impact. But, you know, my emotions are not important. I know people want to hear about it. I just want to know how it must feel vindicating at that, at that second hearing, then, when he's actually exonerated, it must be, oh, must yes. Yes. It was sweet because his friends were there. And the friends were the really fun part of it that everybody came to be with him. And we got to hang with him. And, you know, in Vera,

his mom was there who, you know, she was a very sympathetic and very tired person throughout

“all of this. She just stuck by him. So yeah, I'm sorry that, you know, like, I think people like”

spec that when you get an exoneration, you know, you're just your fork and this and that. But really, it's the end of a long, long, long, long journey. Like you can't divorce yourself from these years and years of injustice. No, and I'm still worried. Now I'm worried about the man. You know, the man's getting out of prison. But yes, of course it was just sweet to like finish. You know, it looked like when Chris was exonerated. It's over. But turn out not to be over. We had to get

some laws passed and he had to sue for compensation. Well, tell me about that. By the way, so Chris played a part in getting the wrongful convictions act passed in Idaho. So this law provides compensation to people who've been wrongfully convicted. What was it like to see him get to be part of

I know we went to Oregon. He went, uh, our several other states went to South. I know, and he would

testify at these hearings. But it was actually a state representative, uh, Doug Rick's who had heard about Chris's story and called me. I had been trying to pass a compensation law for, I don't know, 15, 16 years at that point. I'd been trying for, you know, more than a decade to get a sponsor of a

“bill, which you have to get. And, uh, nobody wanted a sponsor to Chris tap. They loved Chris. The”

legislature loved Chris. What's your favorite memory of him, by the way? Anything that you haven't mentioned here? Uh, you know, probably, uh, hanging out here at the house after he got out. He, he'd come by. He'd come by with, you know, after the settlement, he'd come by to show us the latest car. He bought or whatever. He'd be in the latest car. We'd want to see it. And he bought. I don't know. He, it seemed like he was buying one a month for a while for a few months. Uh, and, um, but just

when he come over here, we go, you know, and get Mexican takeout and we sit around the room and, uh, this, this room back here. He's, you know, lying that couch after his long drive. And, uh, that was it. We were really, we became really good friends, you know, and he'd call me, he used to call me his crazy uncle. I'm not sure where the crazy came from, but, uh, but I, but I, I would imagine that he probably feels some sort of like, you were the guy with some power, with some authority outside, while he was

desperately trying to get out for so many years. He sounds like he probably did think of you as

“is kind of a family member. So I think he had a lot of, a lot of folks. I don't, I don't know what,”

you know, what did Chris think of me? I hope he thought of me as just a really good friend. I don't know how smart he thought I was, you know, he joked with me about being the absent mind of professor anytime. I forgot a pencil or my keys or whatever, uh, but, um, we just had a loving relationship. I mean, I think we care, we cared about each other once he got out. That's great. Well, then I guess when people learn about Chris Tap and his life, what do you want them to take

away from his story? Because there have been so many turns throughout it.

Wow, you know, from my point of view, uh, hope is always the thing that that I'm hoping to get out of

these, uh, very difficult cases. These ones where people say, there's no hope. I mean, at the number of times, I was told there was no hope on Chris's case. I was told by our lawyer, my own lawyer at the innocent project, one of the lawyers. He's never getting out. And this guy is one of the most experienced post-conviction lawyers. He's, you're not going to get Chris out. We're not going to get Chris out. And, uh, so I would say, hope and persistence, uh, and then from his own life, you know,

the, the cautious tale about, uh, changes in fate. Makes me think of his case in particular where your whole life can change over the course of a few hours or a few days of interrogations as it were.

“Yes, I mean, you know, you have to remember the changes that Chris experienced. He,”

you have a life like that. You have a different expectation of what fate is. I don't think any of us can relate to it. You know, to be thrown into prison, no hope, to be freed from prison, you know, to be, to be wrongly convicted, then to be freed, to be a national celebrity, to get involved with all this and then his own, his own death. Yeah, it's hard to hard to look at Chris

and, uh, and see a typical life there. It's not typical. It's really, uh, an incredible story.

And I'm so glad Greg, that you were able to, uh, just describe some of your work on it. Thank you so much for being with us. Sure. Yeah, my pleasure. All right. And that will do it for us here on the final episode of the snare. Thanks to our host, Maggie Rooley for joining us all episodes are out right now. So you can check it out wherever you get your podcast, share it with your friends. I'm Brad Milky. You can catch me on start here every morning.

ABC's Daily News podcast wherever you're listening now. I'll see you later.