S2E29: Unraveling Time Travel

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Is it all happening at once? During the first season of the telepathy tapes, I was shocked when I was told that time does not unfold in a straight line, and instead is best to think of it as spherical, and even now I still don't totally know what that means. But we'll be exploring this all together.

We'll be speaking with neuroscientist Dr. Julia Mossbridge and psychotherapists, Dr. Mike Shapiro, to unpack time, and even time travel. What it means if it's possible, and if it might be possible, too, even heal ourselves through it. The first time I collided into something similar to time travel or remote viewing through time was through an incredible story I heard from Maria, a teacher to many non-speakers but you

met in season 1 of the telepathy tapes. I've had a couple of situations come up in the clinic recently that have made me really think about time travel and the potential for remote viewing at different times. She described the moment that Ryan, one of her non-speaking students, received information from a 13th century monk by remote viewing through time.

I had a student who was working on a lesson with me about Benedictine Art, and he commented before we started, he said, "It effurizes the Catholic church." So I said, "I don't really know that word, I don't know if you mispelled or if it's a word, I don't know."

So I asked his mom, who always said, "Sin, on the sessions, if she minded looking up

the word and she did." She commented that the word effurize does mean to have an influence or an impact on something and that it was dropped from the vernacular in the 1600s, so it's not used anymore.

thought shared with a magistrate from 1345.

So that made me curious about, can you thought share with both people that are in the physical realm or possibly those also in the spirit world, and I also wondered, "Can you actually go back in time to have these types of conversations?" This story is so remarkable that I asked to hear it from another witness. This time, Ryan's mother, like many parents, she was in the room with Maria and Ryan during

their spelling session. Ryan spelled out, "It effurizes the Catholics and Mary and I were like effurize, so I googled it." And it is indeed a word, but it says like it's last known recording was in the 1600s or something like that.

And Maria says, "Well, what does that mean?" Ryan spelled, "Ephurizes tells us how the Benedictine art was so influential."

“And then when we said to Ryan, "Where did you hear this word?”

How did you know this word?"

And he said, "I thought shared with the Catholic magistrate in 1345." What? I was just, "How did he do I did he say?" He thought shared. He said, "So he thought shared with the Catholic magistrate.

I guess in 1345, so maybe they're time-traveling too." Gosh, it's so weird because this is like medium ship where they're thought sharing with someone who's gone or is it yeah, going back in time. I mean, I'm not even totally familiar with a magistrate. I mean, that's not a word I use every day.

Teacher Maria was also on the Zoom call. It's like a judge or a lawyer. I used to dream some Googling and I Googled the word to see if anything would come up. I literally had to be so specific and go down a rabbit hole to even find this word. So I was pretty confident that he picked it up somewhere, whether it's a communal conscious

this or whether he actually traveled back and was able to thought share with this person. And he spelled it two separate times, so it's not like it was a misspell. That was the one thing I'm like, "What did he even misspell?" I'm like, "Is that a word?" He spelled it again and we're like, "Wow."

What's the word again? What does it mean? What does that mean? That means having absolute control over something.

“So that's what he was saying is by dedicating art.”

Ephraise is the Catholics. And it stopped being used in our language in the 16th century. Well, it hasn't been used since the 1600s or something like that. And then I went back to see if there are actually magistrates in 1345. And what I found was there were, but they were in Rome.

Ryan wasn't the only student in Maria's classroom who spelled some interesting things about remote viewing through time. And in case you're new to this show and feeling a bit lost, remote viewing is when you gain information about a distant or unseen target using only your mind.

And in the first talktracks episode, Maria and her new classroom assistant Dan talked about

how a student seemingly remote-feared their lunch by going back in time to see what they ate. We went to lunch that day and gone out and this student was able to let us know where we were, where we went. And he also shared what we both had for lunch.

“And the question I had for him was, well, how are you able to get that information?”

And he said he had remote viewed. And then my follow-up question to that was, well, if you remote viewed, how would you know when to remote view, you didn't know where we were, what time we went, to which he responded. I went back in time and it's easy remote viewing when you go back in time. He has shared with me before that he could remote view.

So I had asked them if he would prefer to remote view. The questions to him rather than me say it would be easier for him to which he responded that remote viewing takes quite a bit of energy. If you've been listening to the stories on the telepathy tapes and the talk tracks, you've met many non-speakers who say they prefer to be asked questions via telepathy instead

of with spoken language. So Maria asked her student if he would prefer to remote view academic questions instead of being asked them out loud. And this tracks with this reasoning, but the student made an important distinction, though for the student to tell path of communication is described as effortless and often preferred.

He said remote viewing takes more energy and is more difficult. He wanted to keep it the way we were working with me presenting things out loud. So I'm curious if any scientists can help me understand what's happening and how this actually happens and what's the science behind it. Which brings us to Dr. Julia Mossbridge, a visionary scientist author and expert in the

science of consciousness and time perception. She's the chief science officer at the Applied Love Labs and a senior distinguished fellow at the Center for AI, Mind and Society at Florida at Lannick University. Julia's groundbreaking work explores the intersection of science, intuition, and human potential, particularly focusing on precognition, knowing that something's going to happen before it does.

I'm Dr. Julia Mossbridge.

“I'm a cognitive neuroscientist, that's what my training was in, also an experimental psychology.”

And I've really been focusing on exceptional experiences or what we call exceptional human performance. So what allows people to perform better than average in all sorts of areas? One of the ways that we started this episode was with this perplexing thing. I think it's one of the first times you, I think, had engaged with a non-speaker.

And I always get nervous and excited the first time any new person is being let into, you

know, like, here's the door to meet this family or this parent or this teacher or whatever. And you had an incredible experience, which to me was fasting because it really maybe you want a time travel or what is this the first thing? Yes. When people get freaked out with these kind of time displacement things or information

that comes from somewhere or feels like it comes from somewhere else in time. When I say people get freaked out, I mean, like Maria and Ryan's mom, I don't mean Ryan. I think Ryan is doing that all the time because I think non-speaking autistic people and non-speakers may be generally because speech is so time packed of a tool, it's like absolutely

“based in time and helps organize things and time moving forward in a line.”

When you don't have that as your reliable form of communication, your mind may actually open up to a much looser boundary to be able to explore information across time. That's so fascinating to me. And with that story, I mean, do you think he was just talking to someone like in a medium shipway or do you think that he was slipping through a timeline in some way remote viewing

over time? Because some of the non-speakers in Chicago have said they could do that. Yeah. That's not going to happen. Yeah.

Some of the non-speakers in Chicago talk about remote viewing over time, remote viewing itself is usually thought of differently than they're using it. It's kind of this technical capacity that you use a paper and pen for, whatever, but it's certainly within the scope of remote viewing to look at information across time in the past in the future or across space somewhere distant from where you are.

And so that seems reasonable. We know that I've been working on remote viewing for years by working on, I mean, not only learning how to do it myself and teaching it, but also more importantly, scientifically analyzing the results of remote viewing. And it's very clear that when people are feeling more loving, they seem to have more access

to information over time. And so I did two studies about remote viewing about future events. So you can't get the information until the future happens because the information is not there. Until the future happens, so we randomly select a picture to show people so that people have

to describe it before the pictures even selected. And people are statistically significantly better at that, at predicting the future accurately when they're feeling unconditional love. Now these non-speakers generally seem to be in a place not all the time, but often much more often than the neurotypicals in a place of unconditional love.

This is a right hemisphere sort of self-transcendent kind of experience. And so I'm not surprised that they talk about remote viewing across time. They're a very desperate, in fact, to talk about different timelines and to point out to you, Kai, specifically they've said like, "Telikai, we remote you in time," or "Telikai that we do time travel."

Because their point of view is very different than ours when it comes to time. So this is by Nayoki Higashita, a Japanese non-speaker from the book called The Reason I Jump. Because I have autism, I know all about time and I feel it myself. Believe me, this is scary stuff.

We're anxious about what kind of condition will be in at a future point. And what problems will trigger?

People who have effortless control over themselves and their bodies never really experience

this fear. For us, one second is infinitely long, get 24 hours can hurtl by in a flash. Time can only be fixed in our memories in the form of visual scenes. For this reason, there's not a lot of difference between one second and 24 hours. Exactly what the next moment has in store for us never stops being a big, big worry.

He's talking about time and how it feels different to autistic people.

“And I think he's specifically speaking about right-hemispheric autistic people, not speakers.”

So this makes sense to me because if you really have the level of a proxy of all of the students that I'm learning about have, you would not be able to plan for the future, frankly. And a big part of the brain is planning for the future. When brain is almost, there's this book called "The Brain as a Time Machine" by Dean Watermono. And it's this idea that the brain is all about predicting the future.

And then when you have an error, you weren't able to predict the future, you say, "Okay, I was wrong. How could I correct that?"

Well, these students can never, they're always getting errors.

They're always unable to predict the future because they can't control their bodies. And so their future is going to feel different no matter what. What does that mean? That means their whole sense of time feels different. Because now their past is going to feel different, too, because the future becomes the past.

And so what we're seeing is that when your time works that way, you may have access to

through going into trans-states or going into remote viewing, but you have access to it all the time. And you may have access to different timelines where other things are happening. And it can be very hard to focus on speakers on the here and now because what do you mean they're here and now, how would I locate that?

Yeah. That is fascinating. Okay, so given so much of the research you've done, what do you think is the most compelling

“evidence that the mind can gather information from the future?”

So there's five decades of excellent evidence that the mind can gather information that's accurate about the future.

It doesn't mean it's always right, but it does mean that you can show statistically that

it's right. There's so much evidence already by 1995 that when Congress hired a statistician to look at some of the work, the intelligence community, the CIA and the CIA had done on pre-cognition, the statisticians who were supposed to kind of find fault with it, couldn't and ended up saying, "Well, the one thing we know is that pre-cognition is real and it's statistically

significant." And the two examples that I think are most replicable of this are something called pre-sentiment, which is physiological detection of what happens in the future. What does that mean? It means your body responding before something happens?

That's important.

“So I think about this, the metaphor I use for pre-sentiment is like, if you put your finger”

in the faucet and the water's rushing around your finger and it goes down, below your finger,

you'll see, there's a big hole, right? There's no water there, because you're fingers there. But above your finger, you'll notice there's a little bubble. And that little bubble is like a little indicator. If time is going down the drain, it's a little indicator, there's something coming.

There's something in the way. It's just like a little fold in the space-time fabric. So you're picking up on this little fold with your body. And that's highly statistically significant, and I've done a meta-analysis on that, that then was replicated, and both of them showed that highly statistically significant that our

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That's QUINCE.com/tapes for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/tapes. The other one that's almost the extreme of the spectrum, that's something we're usually

So this is where you're consciously sitting down, or maybe you're standing up, but you're consciously

saying to yourself, "I'm going to describe a future stimulus, I'm going to describe the answer to a future question. I'm going to find a missing person." Whatever it is that you've been tasked with, and no one knows what that information is. Including the person who tasked you with it because otherwise why would they task you with it? And people are able to actually answer those questions. I have a team that answers those questions all the time for people. So not only is operational,

like we can use it to figure out answers to climate change, for instance, with some project I did with some atmospheric scientists, but also we can use it to understand the mind and study it

“scientifically. So I've done both of those with this pre-cognitive remote viewing. And honestly,”

it's very similar to what I see these non-speakers doing in several ways, especially the focus

on the right hemisphere, but also trying to learn how to tame that intense fire hose of information that comes in and make it a little bit more linear and understandable with the left hemisphere. And I feel like the communication and regulation partner is the person who's trying to help them do that, and sometimes they try to help the communication and regulation partner do that. But I see that all the time. That's fascinating. Is it true or is it research around people having

silabilities, especially top of the clairvoyance, I hope that more unlocked if they've had a traumatic event? And why do you think that is? There's not been very many studies about that question. The intuition that most people have when working with people who have been through drama,

and I've certainly have this intuition myself. It's like an anecdotal sort of report or a feeling

that they might be better. You might see more sociabilities among them. Certainly, I believe that one study was done by the Windbridge Research Center about mediumship and people who are mediums and that they tended to have greater than usual traumatic history. And then I know that Kirsten Cameron did a study at CIS, California Institute of Integral Studies, showing that people who have been traumatized as children are more likely to have at least pre-cognition. Now, that study is

very interesting to me in particular because my interest in informational time travel, which is another name for pre-cognition, which is this capacity to get information from places and time that aren't the now and usually the future. And my own experience as a child certainly brought me into trying to study that question, and also has helped trying to address the drama I had as a child and that I see other people having using unconditional love has also brought me into trying to

understand that question. So what is it about trauma that might open people up to different areas of time or getting information that is usually considered anomalous or different? I think it's that it's a coping strategy. It's almost like why is it that non-speakers are telepathic? Well,

“if you can't speak, maybe you have to cope with communication in a different way. Given that”

human beings have this capacity of telepathy, why would you not use that? Well similarly, if you come home every day after school to a household that's really disorganized, there may be abuse, there may be neglect, someone's drunk, someone's using drugs, maybe your spidey sense starts to kick in because it helps save your life. Meaning your consciousness would go somewhere else. That's dissociation, which is a one solution. Another solution is you're on your way home

on the school bus and you have this feeling, you know, I'm just going to do my homework outside today and then when you go in the house, your parent has passed out on that couch and you're glad you didn't come in earlier because they were abusive. And so it's this necessity. I really think the human need for these skills are what brings them out. Having said that, it is very important to treat the trauma and to move forward with compassion when you discover someone who has had

trauma, who might have these skills? Guess what, if they do that, they don't lose the skill. You don't lose the skill. So in fact, unconditional love is a better, more sustainable way to get to psychopathies than trauma. And you reference your own trauma and your own ability to feel conflicting what happened? Yeah, so when I was a kid my father had severe obsessive compulsive disorder and he thought there was something wrong with his mouth, so we would

have lost his teeth for a long period of time. But he also thought there was something wrong with my mouth and also my sister's mouth. And so at night from the ages of about three to 10, for 45 minutes to an hour each, he would floss our teeth. And I know that my timing is correct because he actually recorded it on audio tapes and I found one of the audio tapes

“and it hadn't ended by the end of a 90 minute audio tape. So here's the thing. I had this experience”

of this woman in her 50s with brown hair sitting on a rocking chair to the right of the bed. And there was a little rocking chair there, but not the kind of visualized. And she was rocking.

Like this is not okay. But I want you to know you're going to thrive. So you're going to get through

“this and you're going to thrive. And she would say that over and over again, and it was really”

comforting when I was in therapy in my 40s and started talking about that this had happened.

My therapist had me do time travel therapy basically go back to the time when my father was

flossing my teeth and out of control and say kind things to myself. And that's when I realized that was that person. So when you were doing time travel therapy, maybe you would imagine yourself in the chair saying to the younger self, this is hard, but you're going to thrive one day. And then you realized the person in the chair was you in the future doing a therapy. Yes, and I don't know if that was a memory that evolved from the therapy, the memory of myself

as a child experiencing that, or if that was a real memory I had as a child. Because by then, I didn't care. It was so effective. It doesn't matter. It felt like a beautiful time loop.

“And I don't care whether it was real in the sense of did I actually see my future self,”

or whether it was a false memory because the actual experience was so healing. That experience

did lead me to start trying to understand informational time travel, mental time travel, and physical time travel, all of those things because you can't have an experience like that without starting to ask those questions. Someone Dr. Mossbridge has been working closely with an exactly how time can be used as a healing tool. It's like how just Dr. Mike Shapiro. I'm Dr. Michael Reochen Shapiro. I'm a clinical psychologist, a psychedelic psychotherapist

in ordains and Buddhist monk, an author and meditation teacher, and I'm also a fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences where they study, you know, a variety of human capabilities through the lens of science. Dr. Shapiro has recently been profiled by the New York Times

“for the amazing work he's doing with veterans through ketamine therapy. It's worth checking out”

as the results from the studies are profound, but today we're focusing on a therapy model regarding time. Somewhere about 15 years ago, I started working at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and I was under the mentorship of Cassandra Vitton, and I was learning what consciousness is from the scientific lens, from the lens of neuroscience, and then philosophy, and then I met Julia Mossbridge, who was also a fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences studying time

travel in her own way. And what I was doing clinically, she was doing scientifically. She was looking at how do we transcend the present moment? How do we grow beyond this moment? The moment also includes the past and the present and the future. She wants to study that through scientific lens. I want to help people have access to the parts of themselves in the past that need attending and nurturance, compassion, unconditional love, hope. The parts of us that were deeply

wounded and left alone and felt isolated. I wanted to bring my clients back in time to bring their present self, which had more wisdom and ability than their old self, their younger self. And so I started developing these protocols in session, just kind of spontaneously using meditation experiences and bringing people backward to their most vulnerable places, whether they were in the trauma being tortured in some cases, or in a combat zone, or on a terrible call

if their first responders. And bringing love, tenderness, compassion, in almost an altered

state of consciousness. So we can just simply think about our past, or we can actually in some way dissolve back into it and be there with that person suffering. And I found it had a tremendous effect on their present day health outcomes, their present day ability to tolerate distress and discomfort here in the moment, but it also gave them a sense of like, oh, I have been through so much and I'm stronger than I ever thought. And then I started with some colleagues, Cassandra

and Julia working toward the future, also including what would happen if we had relationships with our future self. Many of us feel stuck in our life now, because we're moving through the world with old habits and programs and patterns that are dictating our present, which will dictate our future unless some event happens that disturbs our programming. But we can disturb our programming, and we can go toward a future that was unimaginable. So I'm helping people

untether from what's imaginable and start building the capacity to imagine what was previously not imaginable, because you want a future that's wide open and vast to create with rather than just be locked into old habits that kind of perpetuate themselves. So I'm doing both of those things in my work, backward and forward. The therapy Julia did that made her realize she was the older

Dr. Sapiro does. That's how Julia and I met was by me sharing this story that I'll share with you

“of a client that I have permission to share at a Ion's fellow meeting and her hearing that”

in the light bulbs going off for her going, oh man this has this happened to me too and then we started joining teams together. And I'm sorry if this triggers anybody listening. I'll keep some of the details out. I had a client who was tortured as a child traumatized very badly, kept in the closet for days at a time. And she would have somebody visit her that brought her great comfort. We had done this time travel meditation and I brought her back to those moments and she

herself acted as this older compassionate ethereal and she woke up from that meditation in tears going that was me doing that for myself. I was the one who came back and provided the care I needed.

I didn't know that because she never know who showed up in her closet with her until we had done

that meditation. It gives me chills to talk about it now. And I know this is not the only time this

“is happened in my work with others. I two of experiences. The more we do time travel this way,”

the more we realize how our own presence is the thing we've been waiting for. Our own presence is the healing presence we've always been waiting for. So it's space and time expand and contract and really in any non-dual spiritual tradition for those listening you can look up non-duality. That time really doesn't exist the way we imagine or think or have constructed it to exist. And so in any true altered state of consciousness, whether it's facilitated by medicine,

like psychedelics, or deep meditative experiences, or trans, or dancing, or drumming,

when you're really deep into the experience itself, time disappears. It slows down. It may speed up. It's a very relative to the person having the experience. And so someone on ketamine, they might go, "We did an hour-long session." They're like, "Doc, it was five minutes." When you're in altered states of consciousness, time expands and contracts and doesn't even exist after the time anyway. I do something called time-bending. There's ways of expanding,

slowing down time so you can get so much more in your life by slowing time down. And I don't mean to get more done, you're more productive. I mean, you live a much richer, full life, because your

“senses are wide open. You're smelling things, you're hearing things that you're honestly missing”

in our life, because we're rushing, or we're on our phones, or we're just thinking about the bills. We're not actually slowing down to smell the roses, so when you start practicing this way of time-bending, life becomes much richer because your senses are much more lying, taking in a lot more information. I've heard temporally, people say time doesn't exist. They are timeless. When we travel back to the past and to greet our younger versions, we're present in the moment

of the time we went back. And time in this reality, where we're sitting, doesn't exist. People don't know how long we're doing this meditation for. They don't know how long they're out for. Because they're completely invested in the experience, and that's true for any altered state, whether it's meditation or drumming or psychedelics, you're so invested in the present moment, where in my experience, all of life exists from every point of time. Our past exists in us right now.

Our parents' past exists in us. Our grandparents, through their DNA, through our parents, through us here, right now. We have our ancestors with us now. We're actually still reacting to our ancestors' experiences, through epigenetics, and what Julian I've been talking about, we also have access to the future. So as we're doing this time kind of traveling, this future making in this past work, we really have what we call long body, where we're connected to the

ancestors, and we're connected to future generations. We took that from an earthquake concept of the long body of time that expands beyond the present moment and beyond our life. So we're doing all of this while we're going into these altered states of consciousness working in different time periods. We're hearing the present moment accessing history and future. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Superior. That was fascinating. If you're interested in learning more about the time therapy

project, Dr. Mossbridge and Dr. Superior discussed, head to timemachine.love. On the website is a clinically validated self-guided approach to healing with time travel therapy. That's it for this episode of the talk tracks, but new episodes will be released every Wednesday. So stay tuned,

And please remember to stay kind, stay curious, and that being a true skeptic requires an

“open mind. Thank you to my amazing collaborators, producers Katherine Ellis and Selena Kennedy,”

technical directing audio mix and finishing by Jeremy Cole, opening and closing music

by Elizabeth P.W. and original logo and cover art by Ben Condor Design. I'm Kai Dickens,

your executive producer, writer, and host.