Episode 5: Heartbreaker

I'm Josh Dean, host of Communion, the podcast about people who transform, deceive, and survive.

“From con artists to unbelievable yet true occurrences, we dive into stories where nothing is ever quite as it seems.”

Because to understand the world, you sometimes have to change the way you see it. Listen to Communion, wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast discusses issues such as drug use, cell farm, sexual abuse, violence, and assault. Listen to discretion is advised. Since I was 15, the longest I've been able to stay with Mama is 7 months.

We don't get along.

Well, this go around, I'd have been staying there for 7 months, and one night, I was saying

something to try and she ended up grabbing my arms and screaming, and I was screaming. Natalie's relationship with her mother was at times strained, as she discusses in this video from 2019. Her heated arguments often push Natalie into the arms of the men in her life, if only out of necessity. So a friend of mine that I've been friends with for a long time, he's known me since I was younger.

We tried to date when I was 18, but I just didn't see him like that, so a totem

and he said, "Well, if we can't be together, then at least want to be your friend."

I said, "Okay, so we've been friends ever since." He seemed like we're not with Mama, and I was like, "I told him I needed somewhere to stay, prepare a little bit until I got on my feet." Well, his name is Junior, he offered to take us on a cruise. Nothing was done, like, sexually, I've not done nothing with him except back then.

He's my friend, and that's it. It came down to the point of, "I know he wanted to be with me, and I was not being with him, so he got mad." And he started screaming at me and kicked me out, so I had to do what I had to do.

“The hour of a curious about anything kissed I asked, because my life is a life that's”

an open book, so is what it is, man, it is what I'm making it. I had to do what I had to do. It seems like the more I learned about Natalie Jones, the more I believe she was in that position as her life went on, overcoming trauma and obstacles became a way of life for her. While she seemed outwardly happy to those around her, she was clearly dealing with much

on the inside. If anything, I can say that she was a survivor for what that's worth, but somehow, on the night of July 4th, 2020, she ended up in a situation where that survivor instinctive verse just wasn't enough.

“Through my research and interviews, there have been several key names that continue to pop”

up, and not just these names, but how they associated with Natalie, names that have crawled across the lips of many in her community, through whispers or loudly voiced opinions. The figures' largest and Natalie's life predominantly men have drawn widespread suspicion, with many speculating that each harbored motives to silence her, whether a jilted lover, an impending court case, a heated custody dispute, or claims of grooming, predatory behavior,

and even extortion. I looked exhaustively into their backgrounds, unraveling their connections to Natalie and reached out to each and pursue the answers. Our mind that statements expressed by those I've interviewed are merely opinion, except when I refer to information in the police file or court documents.

at the time of production of this podcast, cleared anyone of any wrongdoing regarding

Natalie.

“The first man I investigated is Jr. Natalie knew Jr. since she was a teenager, meeting”

through her mother Elaine, they became close friends, and he told police when they interviewed him, but he kinda looked out for her, helping her out financially from time to time along the way. As she got older, had her children, was twice divorced, and was struggling to the point of periodic homelessness, Jr. occasionally provided Natalie and her children with a place

to stay. Yet while she regarded him strictly as a friend, sources including Elaine and Natalie's own videos indicate that he developed romantic feelings for her over time. Jr. loved her, as all you could see from him was whatever you want, whatever you want to.

You know, he loved her, as well as Natalie's, he's good to you, and he's good to both their boys. That's the main thing that counts, you know, I mean, yeah, he might be a little ugly, but

“he still, he's good, he passes my part anyways, as to just look at him as an old team”

hardcore. If you've faced me the way you want to face him, he did. Whenever Elaine and Natalie were at odds, usually over the right way to raise their kids, Jr. was one of the first people she would call. She'd stay at his place for a while with the kids until things cooled off, and I'm told

he spoiled her. Hey, two-a-ground cruises took her and her boys on cruises, you know, he just went and her. It was her and her two cents, he bought trying to dart by, I was like a full willer.

Elaine says Natalie was always clear with Jr. about her feelings, that their relationship

was strictly platonic in her eyes. Well, he had an argument about something. She called Jr. and asked because she'd come down and she said, I don't want to be with you. I just want me and my boys around, and he made it happen. He fixed the bat party of his house for her and hurt her boys, and he was trying to

like, okay, our way as long as it takes, you know, maybe one day you'll let me like I love you. But eventually, the relationship did become intimate, and apparently, Jr.'s feelings became to complicate things. Yeah, he wanted to marry her.

Yeah. How do you propose to her by this point? Yeah. And you had told him that, you know, she said, I think of you as my best friend. I don't think of you as a husband, you know, and she was sleeping with him for money.

“The only way I found that out was because one day I picked her phone up, it went off.”

And they were matched with her phone, you understand, or anything about that. But it went off. She just started laughing, like a giggle laugh. I saw what's so funny. And she said, keep my phone up and put my code in, where she had to tell me the code

because she changed the code every week, and Jr. showed her $2,500. $2,500 bills, and he said, just come over for an hour and visit me. Well, hey, you know, she went and for a few months, he was like paying her and he gave her money to pay down on that land that she got.

In police interviews, Jr. stated that while they did have a sexual relationship, he never

wanted to marry her. And the land Elaine is referring to is a 19-acre plot located not far from where Natalie's car was found. She purchased it between the times she moved back to Georgia from golf shores in May of 2020 and shortly before she went missing in July.

She got the money from Jr. $11,000 in total and put $5,000 down. It was a raw forested land, so she would have had to have it cleared and have utilities run. That's not cheap to do. She was also shopping for a mobile home to purchase for her and her kids to live in around the time she went missing.

Yeah, my note she was going to get a double on, he doesn't want to pay down. Got it. All the stuff approached and she was actually going to move and, you know, move and August after all the court date with Eric, you know, after she done that. Questions were all around the feasibility of this purchase, particularly how Natalie could

realistically cover the costs. The remaining $5,000 6,000 from her down payment fell far short of addressing the additional expenses involved and the agreement itself drew scrutiny as it was struck directly with the property owner, a private arrangement that's some viewed as exploitative with allegations that the seller anticipated or, at least, suspected her eventual default, allowing him to

any steady employment or verifiable steady income.

“But back to Junior, from what I'm told, they spent a lot of time together and he truly”

cared for her, that's largely unrefuted. Natalie seems to have used that situation to her advantage at times, and seems to have sent mixed signals to Junior, allowing him to take her on cruises, shopping, crashing out at his house. He even painted her car blue for her, which she would later spray paint that hot pink color

I've talked about. She did that, and Elaine's backyard shortly before she went missing. But when Natalie went missing, Junior became a person of interest, and right along, that scrutiny only intensified after she was found.

They tried to push everything towards Junior.

They had their winning Junior's home, snatched all these cameras down, shoved them on the couch, telling them don't move, they tried to push this blame towards him.

“The moment a body is found, the clock starts ticking.”

Forty-eight hours before the trail goes cold. From A&E in crime house, this is the official podcast from the famous True Crime series, The First Forty-eight. On Carter Roy, every Thursday, I revisit a landmark homicide investigation in depth with long-form storytelling built for your ears.

I'm Josh Mankowitz, and I hope you'll join us for Season 5 of "Dateline Missing in America." In each episode of "Datelines Award-winning Series," we will focus on one missing person's case.

And here from the families, the friends, and the investigators all desperate to find them.

Maybe you could help solve a mystery. Search "Dateline Missing in America" to listen completely pretty, or subscribe to "Dateline Premium" to unlock new episodes early. Elaine told me that because of Natalie's relationship to the men in her life, one of which being Junior, accusations flew when she went missing, and that compounded when her

remains were recovered. At the time, everyone in the community was on high alert, and emotions were running high. Almost everyone in Natalie's close inner circle got side-eyed glances at least once. There was even a theory that Elaine herself had something to do with her daughter's disappearance. So by the time she was found deceased, fingers had already been pointed at Junior, and

someone had to take matters into their own hands. Natalie's sister Tabitha, along with a few others, allegedly forcefully entered Junior's home, searching for any son that Natalie had been on his property. Next thing I know, here comes Buddy and Tabitha fly up in the yard, where they had dealt with in Junior's home, snatched all these cameras down, shoved him on the couch, telling

him, "Don't move," and when they left, the cops got behind him, and they outranded the cops. It was right after Natalie was found.

“They came to my house and they was bragging about outruning the law, and that's why”

did you come here? You know, why did you come to my house? Oh, they wanted to check on me. You know what I'm saying? And Junior went and took out a warrant.

Every day, Junior was threatened, because he didn't go through it. No arrests were made, but investigator Boswell was aware of the incident, because he mentioned it briefly when we spoke, though in his police interviews he could be perceived by some as a bit smug at times, Junior cooperated with authorities, who had solid reason for questioning him in the first place.

That reason was Natalie's cell phone data. Regarding the cell tower pings from Natalie's phone, it was all over the place on July the 4th. Jennifer has studied the phone data extensively, and she tells me there are things that are completely perplexing.

The phone was pinging off towers in Franklin, Georgia, over in Corinth, and then it bounced back over to Franklin, and heard county. It bounced over up in the roosterville area at one point. And there's a lot of what we refer to as ghost pings that have hit in Newton, Georgia, we'd a county, and then the very last pings, which was at 502 AM, that was down in troop

county at West Point Lake, which is weird, it's a mystery cell ping. It just looks like someone, if it were Natalie, if it were Natalie with someone else, or

The RTD data and cell halk analysis collected from Natalie's phone, which tells what cell

“phone towers her phone communicated with, or pinged off of, and where and when pings occurred,”

gave investigators a general sense of where Natalie had traveled the night of July 4th. Your phone is constantly sending and receiving transmissions to cell phone towers, so if it's turned on, you can be traced. Investigators use various methods to determine a likely path of travel and can accurately create a timeline from there.

That night, Natalie's phone pinged numerous times between midnight and 502 AM when it went dark. The data shows movements all over the county, even crossing the county line, moving back and forth and revisiting the same areas several times. It's bizarre.

Investigator Boswell showed me on the computer in his office all the data points collected

from Natalie's phone that night.

It's a lot of comprehensive information that wouldn't make sense to the average person, me included, but he's been trained in reading and deciphering this data.

“Like, I could show you my Google Earth where I plotted every single one of those cell phone”

towers. On my Google Earth, I have a file that's called Natalie Jones, and it can show you every single tower. Every, I mean, you look at the data points, and this whole line right here is the data points.

Her calls, her text messages, and I did the measures based on the distance from the towers. Data arcs basically create location boundaries, and where they overlap is a likely place the person or phone was located at a given time. But the data in question here was from 232 AM on the morning of July 5th.

Natalie's phone appeared to ping at the end of Junior's driveway.

This was potentially a huge breakthrough, though he wasn't questioned about it until nearly

two years later. In a police interview, Junior was showed printouts of this data, along with images showcasing the arcs that were associated with his property. Her phone is pinging off towers over around your house. Wow.

So does this mean anything to you, or can you think of any reason why she might have been driving near a 911 road that didn't around all I know to see her daddy saw her daddy's son, they lay him all around me all the way back, as all I'm now. Junior lives back a long gravel road. There isn't much else back there, and it pretty much dead ends shortly after his property.

So what reason might Natalie have had to go there, but attempt to see him. He says that Natalie's half brother and some other extended family of hers also live in that general area, but he had no idea why else Natalie would be there at that time of the night. You know that if she happened to come by her house that night, that doesn't mean we did

anything long, but sure in any trouble, it would just mean you might be able to help give us a little puzzle piece that leads us in the summer. I don't know it now, but that man I really don't have. So for the God, okay, and is it at all possible she came by her house, maybe when you were sleeping?

No, like that, but she had a huge influence. She made not, baked you, baked on my daughter, she was baked it on my daughter. Junior emphatically denies speaking to or seeing Natalie that night, and police had no evidence to refute that. The cell data just shows that Natalie was in the area, not that she knocked on the door

or spoke with Junior or anyone else, but strangely there's also another ping, just minutes away from his house at another intriguing location. Then at 232 we have this red arc right around here. That's your mom's house. Yep.

Were you at your mom's house that night? No, I don't doubt you that. Okay. Would your mom have been there that night? Yeah, my mom was there that night.

“Is it all possible that Natalie went by your mom's house that night?”

My mom won't go to my mom's house. I don't know why she just won't go to my mom's house. I don't know why she just won't go to my mom's house. Can you think of anybody that lives on this red arc besides your mom's house? No, I do not know.

His mother also claimed she had not seen or heard from Natalie the night she went missing, or since. Investigators continue to question Junior about what reason Natalie might have had to visit that specific rural area in the middle of the night, or who else she might have gone to see.

Then when investigators begin poking them about the $11,000 he gave to Natalie for the land purchase, and being with other men, trying to invoke a little jealousy, the conversation

Junior begins to get upset and abruptly says the interview's over.

If somebody just took $11,000 from you and then said, "See you, I wouldn't make you feel anywhere." No, not a bit. You're going to tell you why, because money comes down, it does. Because I'm safe.

I'm safe. I'm not bullshit. I know y'all sit behind his dad right here. Postures was like, "Do I need a heart or a lie? Let's stop if I do.

I need a heart or a lie. You're a stop if I think of something." Then just minutes later, investigators are asking about the location where Natalie was found. Junior, again, considers ending the interview.

"Did you ever go to that location before?" "No, I just told you that.

“No, I think it's going to take the next stop.”

Because you need to die. I'm a harm to your life. Because y'all just keep on blushing this out here." Officers reassure that they aren't accusing him of anything. They're simply looking for an explanation.

He relaxes slightly and the interview goes on for another 20 minutes. Junior states that the night Natalie vanished to his home sick and bed. He tells him he actually had a trip plan to Panama City during that time, but had to cancel something his mother corroborated in a separate interview. It's worth remembering that this was during the beginning stages of COVID.

Looking at this data and knowing the relationship between the two, it's understandable why investigators were interested in Junior initially. In the end, there was nothing concrete to prove he had ever seen or spoken to her the night she went missing. He met his feelings for Natalie Clear.

She was my best friend. She was just a friend of my side key and I'm all my in and she's the young girl and that she was just a psychic called me up and said, "Hey, let's go out and fight fun." So, we're going to trip. What no relationship, no I can't but she was my best friend.

I'm sorry, I'm doing the banging the world forward, so she was my best friend. But why was Natalie there?

“Why was she or her phone moving around in such an erratic manner?”

Was she looking for someone or something? Was she with someone or waiting for someone? Maybe she was under the influence and just didn't want to go home. Her text and call history provide no clear answers. But one other claimed Junior made to police was that Natalie was using drugs around that

time. Every single day, the marijuana, every single day, and sometimes left men. I sure, like let's say that that evening she's coming back from Alabama and instead of going home, she goes there and uses drugs and overdoses and dikes. Let's say that's what happened.

Okay. Possibility? Yeah. I mean, I guess I don't know. But I guess if somebody who knows Natalie does that seem like something that you think

she would ever do in terms of like pull off in the woods, like specifically late in the night, let's say five in the morning, four in the morning, go over to here, pull over there and use drugs and that location, like could you see her doing that and knowing her? Does that seem like a character for her?

Yes, you would.

That always stayed out of that night.

I tried contacting Junior numerous times with no response. I wanted to discuss not just about the suspicion around him early on, but learn more about Natalie as well. For long, it was clear he wasn't going to speak with me.

“I believe Junior loved Natalie and her kids.”

I've heard that from several people, though we still won't talk about her. Could her denial of marriage as Elaine claims have pushed him over the edge? Could knowing she was seeing other men after he'd given her large sums of money, tens of thousands of dollars by his own estimate over the years, have angered him so much that he would want to harm her.

These were questions being asked by Elaine and even law enforcement. But evidence is key here. No calls, emails, or texts were placed from Natalie to Junior that night, and none were received from him.

Though I do question why his phone records to my understanding were never pulled for cross

reference or to verify his location that night. There's nothing obvious. No physical or forensic evidence I'm aware of that links him in any way to Natalie's disappearance. But again, when you continue to peel back the layers of secrecy and Natalie's life,

you will find a lot more that remains hidden. I'm Josh Mankowitz, and I hope you'll join us for Season 5 of Date Line Missing in America. In each episode of Date Line's award-winning series, we will focus on one missing person's case. And here from the families, the friends, and the investigators all desperate to find

them. Maybe you could help solve a mystery. Search Date Line Missing in America to listen completely pretty or subscribe to Date Line Premium to unlock new episodes early.

From A&E in crime house, this is the official podcast from the Famous True Crime series,

the first 48 on Carter Roy.

“Every Thursday, I revisit a landmark homicide investigation in depth with long-form storytelling”

built for your ears. Listen to and follow the first 48 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When I was 13 years old, I met our, I loved him. I thought him, um, that man, he clothed me, he fed me, he made sure I was at school, I was

with him all the time. I clung to and from 13 to 15 years old, that man was my dad, he was my dad. I went on vacations that people dream about. He told me so much, he gave me a home to feel safe in, when I get mad at me, my punishment was to go back up on my mom's, I used his cream and holler, and yeah, it was scary to have

“a 400-pound black man in your face screaming at you and you're just this lovely girl.”

With all of you, I looked out to him so freaking much, he was all I had, um, if you're watching this, I didn't love you, and I've forgiven you for everything, not me, after 15. I'm just gonna stop right there right now. Listening to Natalie's own words about Ira, it might seem confusing to reconcile her glowing portrayal with accusations of his potential involvement

in her demise, but as always, it's complex, and there's more to the story here, as Natalie

ludes to at the end of her video, stating, "I forgive you for everything you've done to me, after 15." Elaine tells me Ira came into Natalie's life through an introduction by her half-sisters, Tabitha and Jesse.

“Hang out over there, and then bam this, I know there won't Natalie, you know, and they”

bought Natalie in that picture. All the girls hung around with Ira, who at that time would have been in his early-to-mid 40s. They spent time at his house, he took them shopping and on trips, he even bought Natalie a car.

Elaine recounts the time he took them all to Disney World, all expenses paid. When Natalie was life, 14, this is like when Ira was like, first coming into the picture, hey, wanting to take Natalie to Disney World, I see if I take her mother back into Disney World? Yeah, no, you're not, you're not taking my baby to Disney World, he said, "Oh, but you

can go too." At that time, Elaine was dating a police officer, and she tells me Ira invited him along too so that she felt secure that Natalie was in good hands. He said, y'all can go too, you know, he said, "That's God, I was staying in one room in your girl's can stand in another room."

I said, "Well, we don't hide in the men." And he said, "Everything's paid for, you know, we're staying at the hard rock." And so I went, all he'd done was stayed in his room, the whole time, the whole time that

we was down there, he never came out of the room.

Ira Natalie became close with her viewing him as a surrogate father, a midter-strained relationship with her biological one. Natalie even lived at his home for some time. Elaine got more uncomfortable the closer they became. The situation called for scrutiny was this a sincere effort to support a teenager from

a fractured family, or was it entirely inappropriate given the age difference and no familial ties. Ira also declined speaking with me, but explained his relationship with Natalie to investigators. I saw Natalie at the football game to say, "A of noon at high, there's a football game and I met her.

She jumped in the car and I was with a tab and some other people and she got in the car. And I met her and then I went with her and Elaine shopping the next day, bought her some

you when she started to think?"

“"Yeah, first thing to happen was, okay, let me give you the back drop, okay, originally."”

It becomes an increasingly uncomfortable conversation. He goes on to tell how he bought a house for his mother and he lived in the house next door, Natalie and the other young girls would stay at his house while he stayed as mothers.

Then Elaine went to jail on a minor charge after Natalie's first son was born and again

Natalie moved in with him temporarily. He says Natalie's half-sister Tabitha lived there for a while too, at the same time. Police aren't slow to ask the question that most are likely wondering either.

“Was there anything going on that shouldn't have been in this highly unusual situation?”

Now, what time for relationship did you and Natalie eventually?

"Yeah, eventually when she was older, I mean I know y'all saw the video of Facebook,

that's Natalie's theatrics, okay, Natalie had, but the time I had done whatever would have she had been married, had a baby, all this other stuff, and you know, I mean I can't live with me in a minute, and it was incorrigible how to control." Natalie paints a different picture though. When he references the Facebook video and her theatrics, this is the video he's talking about.

My mom went to jail, I quit school, I was just a 16-year-old girl, with a baby, all by myself,

and a cold hour because training diapers in it closed, I stood for $20, we haven't talked

“in, and months, as well as a year, and he came to remember my mom's, he picked me up, and he took me back to the house,”

and I went in, and he said in front of the house, and he didn't see me as his old girl anymore. I don't even think he's seen me as somebody he knew, he put his hand on my leg, and he told me he, and if I wanted his tail, then I would have to sleep with him. He set in the woods behind her church when she recorded that video, is this the young woman being overly dramatic, stirring up rumors for some reason, or a broken soul coming clean with

the difficult and trauma-inducing decisions she's had to make to survive, for this child to provide for her child. Whether Natalie had reached legal adulthood at the time remains contested, or conflicting recollections and perspectives from those involved, still, a consensus emerged among the few who knew the intimate details of her life that there was an unmistakable undercurrent

of impropriety, Jennifer feels especially strong about this. If you talk about all the men in Natalie's life, like she did to them what they taught her to do, it did a number on her, and I don't care if it, if he didn't do anything until age 16, she still gung, she still a teenager, she had still been around him for three years. All of that, mine-thickery gets inside of your head, and you start thinking that this

is normal. The age of consent in Georgia is 16, but still, Ira has gone public, vehemently denying these allegations Natalie brought online. He said he cared about her, and did nothing more than fill a void as the father figure that she desperately needed in her life, but Jennifer feels differently.

adolescent girl was exploited in ways that would play into every desperate decision she

made after her.

“This comes from her looking for a strong, male figure that she looked to, that she herself”

has said many times over. I looked at him, I loved him so much, like he was my dad. He was my dad, like I'd go into her voice because I've heard that video so many times, and it just... simultaneously breaks my heart and pisses me off.

He did a number on her, absolutely. The suspicion surrounding Ira's possible involvement in Natalie's disappearance did not arise solely from the relationship many regard is inherently inappropriate, or from the persistent allegations that he groomed her beginning in her early teens. They're also centered around tangible records, court documents that some point too, as

corroborating evidence of a predatory pattern. In July 2019, charges were filed against Ira, eight counts for child molestation, and eight counts for aggravated sexual battery on a child under the age of 16.

These charges were reduced to eight counts of cruelty to children in the third degree,

a misdemeanor in Georgia. He was sentenced to 96 months probation, and later petitioned for, and was granted early termination after serving at least 12 months. But none of these charges involved Natalie, and again, I reached out several times to Ira, but he declined to speak with me for this podcast.

Elaine also shared information with Jennifer that cemented the idea of Ira's alleged improprieties in Jennifer's head. She had told us at one point that Natalie had taken a CD that contained a legal video, if you will, evidence that she had from the alleged predator that would be Ira.

Elaine stated that she doesn't know who the attorney was.

She said that she believed it was someone local, but that this happened somewhere in the months of May and June of 2020, again, Natalie vanished on July 4th, and she took it to an attorney, and they just all Natalie told Elaine was that they said they couldn't do anything with it or weren't going to do anything with it. So that was very alarming for us.

“No one knows what happened to the CD or exactly what was on it, honestly I'm not sure anyone”

can really confirm it ever existed outside of Natalie telling Elaine about it. But as Jennifer tells me, she did speak with a confidential source who relayed similar information. I don't want to reveal the source, but there's also someone that's I interviewed, that knows Natalie very closely, that stated she came out one night with her laptop and said you want to see something funny, she thought it was, you know, I guess goofing off in

away, and they said what, and she popped a CD in the laptop. I'm not going to play what was told to Jennifer, with no proof of what was on the CD, and no concrete evidence that it ever existed at all, it feels wrong to put it out there for speculation, but per that source, it was described as being of a sexual nature. He was like, you know, I was disgusted by it, he was like look, I mean I'm a guy, I watch

porn, but like I don't want to see this, I mean you could sense it in his voice. Without Natalie to verify the claim or the alleged CD containing the evidence, confirmation is impossible. What is documented however, is the single video she did post, in which she accuses him of soliciting her when she was 16.

But just as with Junior, there's no hard evidence that places Ira anywhere near Natalie the night she disappeared, but as I dive deeper, I learned that Natalie might have had something she was hiding after all, something that someone else may have wanted to get her hands on. She came over late at night and she said, "The lady with the dogs said that I needed to get

some of Natalie's belonging and so that the dogs can get a sin off of it."

“That said okay, and she had a white plastic bag, like garbage bag, that's what all did”

you take. Oh, I just got a hairbrush. That's why I started capturing and multiple lives. She was like, I knew right then that was a lie.

right now."

“And she pulled it out of her purse and showed us, so, why are you lying?”

The truth about Natalie is an audio-chuk original produced by particle entertainment.

I wrote and produced the series, Executive Producer is Ashley Flowers, additional research

“provided by community advocates for Natalie Jones, original music written and performed by Jackson”

Epley, and a special thanks to Elaine Gordon and her family. If you, or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, help is available at the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 899-7233.

“You can find me on social media @shonkipepificial, or @shonkip.com, and you can email me any”

information about this case to [email protected]. Don't forget to rate and review the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

And as always, thanks for listening.

The moment a body is found, the clock starts ticking, 48 hours before the trail goes cold. From A&E in crime house, this is the official podcast from the famous True Crime series,

The First 48, on Carter Roy, every Thursday, I revisit a landmark homicide investigation

in depth with long-form storytelling built for your ears. Listen to and follow the first 48 on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts.