E1096 - Age of Attraction w/ Jorge & John, Taylor Frankie Paul, Summer House, and Existential Crises

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eep.com/vi a ll for 20% off site wide for their March madness sale. That's helix sleep.com/vi a ll for 20% off site wide Make sure you enter our show name after check out so they know we sent you helix sleep.com/vi a ll Perfect timing. What's going on everybody? Jack. Jack. One of our very talented editors here is bringing you in a coffee a little bit of a little BTS here at the vowel files. Jack. Wave to everybody. Yeah Jack. Jack. Wave to everybody. Oh my god. You know when you take a sip of a coffee and you're just like wow

That's good. Yeah, I didn't even get to finish the sentence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The cloud ball and out this morning Well, what is going on everybody? What is going on everybody? We are joined by joined by a full household of wonderful

“ladies. What should be? Actually Nick, I think you can go home. Oh my god. We're even too”

unaddily stomach. Yeah. There's a lot of women here and I have all of their eggs in my stomach as well. It's a lot of racism. I'm feeling so happy. I love it. Surrounded by the positive energy. I'm not feeling light, but you look at it. You do look at it. I had a breakdown last night. We're getting into occasional wife, you know, it's a lot. Yeah. You know, you just like blink and then you're you're just you got this massive belly. You can't really do much. I'm like already waterling. I'm like

this feels too early for that. And I just started crying last night and I was like I just feel so big and like rivers being like mama run mama dance mama jump and I'm like my mama can't because maybe we'll fall out of me. I'm sorry. Not fall out of you. Hopefully and hopefully they do. When the time is right now that I'm so large, I can I can rest Louis right on top. Helps with the weight distribution. Louis. Louis doesn't like go top rope and like jump on you.

Like river does with Natalie. Top rope. Top rope really. Like wrestling reference. Yes. You know, they go sticking climb. I don't understand the wrestling reference. It makes sense now. Like once you said it's a wrestling reference, I'm like, oh yeah, on top of the rope. Yeah. Okay. I mean, yeah, he was like hitting me with a bat yesterday. No. Okay. Boy, Mom. I just sent my chick play chicken sandwich on my stomach. Yes. Oh yeah,

I said so. As a table. That's really cool. Can you get a picture of that? I did. Good. I feel like that's the

first. I did your book. Makes a watch. That's a story. Yeah. He doesn't watch my stories, guys. He does not watch

my Instagram stories. I try to be off. Ryan. No. You don't know what your wife is posting. You've been posting a lot of art. So he is posting from a place of fairness. So it's okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. No, you have to be your art. It calms me. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. You said that kind of intricate the art. I'm like with the chalk. Yes. He's good. How

long did that take? Anywhere from like 10 to 30 minutes? Okay. Per square. Per square? Yeah. Yeah. I have her. It's not allowed to help. She honestly is not even allowed to be outside. I'm drawing between the dogs and her, walking over it, you know, it's fine. Child just don't appreciate art. Chalk is a very forgiving medium. Oh, I mean, how many tiles do you have left? We're running out. Yeah. But I will just pressure

washing. It's going to hose it down and start fresh. That's the nice thing. It's like it's kind of pretty easy to do. You know, there's not a lot of setup. Yeah. Yeah. You know, painting. I got such a process. Right. But if you make one that you really love and then you can't keep it, take a nice picture out and put it in the garage, although it's really good. Yeah. I like to take a nice picture of it. Enough to do it again. Yeah. It's, it's my life. It's the journey that I made.

“That was good enough was an accident. So you like you have to buy it. Are you keeping like”

every little thing that Louie draws on? So now that he's in school, he comes back with a lot of projects. And I actually was wondering, like, what to do? A lot of them, I'm just like, what? This is big. What to do with it? Thanks. Don't have the room for all on my dining room. My mom sent me the other day. I think, you know, when I, when I draw my mom gets a little giddy, it reminds her. But it was like a father's day card that I made of my dad and as I stick to your me and my dad and it says, dear dad,

you just drew a stick for your? I, I hadn't really just walk your screen. I've all the hot spots locked on the screen. Okay. Sorry. You are a great dad. You are a good dad. Thank you for all the good things you have done. I hope you have a nice father's day. You are the greatest dad in the world. Love, Nick. And it was just here's dad. Here's me. And then there's a bubble. You're the greatest. And apparently I have sunglasses on. And my dad is a mustache.

It's actually so sweet. She kept that. Well, it is hard to do you have like a giant box of river stuff? Well, she's not in school. So any crafts must be done with someone involved, you know, which sometimes is a bit of a mess headache in our house. But there are, we have a few, my mom, when my mom was in town, she like did her hand prints. Like that stuff's cute. Now that's Easter, we'll do her foot prints like make them into carrots. You know, like, we try to be cute.

Today she's painting. I like those, they're like seramp, they're like the little paint kit. So like seramping things and it comes with the little paint, it comes with the paint brush and you just like give, I will like buy, I thought I went home good the other day. But that for her, that's that'll keep her busy for like, at home color me mine. Oh my god, yeah. Oh my god. That'll keep her busy. The long, the long, the long coloring, the huge like coloring

papers that like stick on a table. Oh, yeah. Those are like a big, big van in our house with those. Because they don't move. Well, yeah. And because they cover everything, she should at me coloring.

“You know, anyways. Also, don't forget my file file's plus is add for re. So if you want to listen to”

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amazing content when we dive deep into your favorite rowdy recap episodes like secret lines of

Mormon wives and the batch her at an age of attraction, get some behind the scenes and we really get into the nitty gritty on some of your favorite shows and all the things going on in those universes. As well as your pop extra all your favorite pop culture topics that we can get to talk about like Mary wants to talk about. Club challenge. Club challenge. We're tiring. It's really important too. Very important stuff for sure for a state of the union. Also, a lot of interesting things going on

in the ecosystem, Jake Shane is under fire. I'm definitely team Jake Shane here, but like the responsibility of podcasters, you know, doing red carpets and interviewing celebrities and how your, you know, more typical legacy entertainment journalists feel a certain way about it. And who's right, who's wrong. I have a lot to say about that topic. It wasn't really dive into that on

pop extra this week. Maybe a little bit next week on realtor recap. It's certainly get it first.

I'm vial files plus. Also don't forget Netflix is a joke is coming up May 4th and we are with the new cast of temptation. I know you don't know them yet because the next episode hasn't come out yet,

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In LA, it's going to be a live show to be a lot of fun. So if you're looking for something to do

Get tickets now. Go to warlink in the show description or vial files.com. Well, we do have a great episode lined up for you today. We have from the great hit show age of attraction, Jorge and John are with us to talk about their journeys. We will unpack there's a new batch of episodes out on Netflix now, episodes 6 and 7. Why is that? 6 and 6 and 6 and 6 and 6 and 6 and 6 and 6.

That's not the key. Let's not be the out-of-touch parents because I was at the playground with River as I often do to end my day and I overheard a couple of kids talking to some other kids about how like not cool 6/7 is anymore. I was told that yeah, it's on conchop because older people are doing it. But you know what? As someone who's having a crisis because I'm about to turn 25, I'm claiming it. I'm taking it all the time. When is your 24th birthday?

Monday. Where's birthday of my life? Cool. So what happened? Yeah, because he realized that his life was not going in the direction that he had planned. Quarter life crisis. Yeah, I hope

“your birthday is better than mine. And I like to think your life is a lot more exciting than”

mine was, but at the time I turned 25. I was in the middle of one of the many breakups I was going

through with my first girlfriend. I was an accountant at a job I hated. I was, I did not

drive a BMW. Oh, which when I was 18, I was like 25, I'm going to have a wife and some kids and a BMW and that will be the definition of success and I had no wife. No friends. No. Okay, I'm not. And I just was like, I'm 25 and I was like, I'm not doing anything that I thought I have no prospects. I feel like you're on the better track than that. I'm not doing anything I enjoy. Hey guys. Yeah. This has to be pretty good. Yeah. Your early 20s, you're trying to live

up to the expectations you set for yourself as a teenager, which is bizarre. What do you think about it? But that is what we do. And like life comes at you fast. And 25 seems such like a milestone when you're younger and then you hit it so quickly. And you're like, it's like my mom had like a kid. Yeah. No, it's just like, I, um, I got off. And like everything, she'll buy me 25. Your mom had a kid and you're still dealing with a Sunday scary. You know, it's like, yeah, like I got pregnant with

River at 24. That is crazy. Yeah. And I'm like, do I can my mom buy me a straightener for my birthday?

“Like, do I think that'll be a good thing for her to get me for my birthday? Like, that's why I'm I'm”

like, oh, and so I'm like, okay, any fun. It's a tough, it's a tough birthday sometimes. It's like, some of my friends are getting married. Other ones are like, okay, I'm going to go to grad school. So it's like, there's a lot of different things happening. Totally, you know. It's a, it's a false measuring stick that really creates a lot of anxiety. But have you birthday, Mayor? Thanks. No. It's not my birthday yet. I'm still a younger person. Yeah, so I'm not sure. I'm not, I'm not

on. Yeah. 25 was also the first birthday. We're like, I felt my, you know, it was like, I don't want

to know people. I'm 20. Like, it was like, yeah, it was like, I'm almost at his. Yeah, I'm like, I should be taking over. Yeah. Have you heard the theory about your birthday, though, or like, your age is that you're actually turning the age you've been all year on your birthday, right? You're turning your birthday. You're like, you're in your 25th year. Yeah. Like, I'll be entering my grandpa was used to say that you're like entering like your 26th year when you turn 20 about it.

You know, when I saw it, it was also a health insurance company's feel. No, for sure. You know what I saw too. That was interesting. And I was actually thinking about this. I was like, how is it that Louie was born in 2024? And now it's 2026. So he's been alive for through like three years. And he's not even two math is hard. Yeah. Yeah. Who that just sent me through a spiral. I'll tell you that. Right. That makes no sense. He's seen 2024 because it's 25 and now 2026.

And he's not even two. Yeah, but not all of 2026. Well, based on that information, and I don't know when his birthday is, I'm guessing he was born at the end of a year. No. July. So middle of a year,

“and we're in the beginning, I think I should have another year. I think it's because of exactly”

what Mary said. And because you're like, you basically don't count. Guys, we're giving her something

way that we didn't do well in math. Yeah. We're an active man. We're an active man. We're an active man. We're an entertainment player. So we're both so good at like in like our AP letting land classes. And we could bullshit anything. And then I was like, yeah, no, one time, I literally cried during a pre-calc test. I play that. Now he famously wrote, I'm sorry.

math test. Yeah. It's real as far as I'm sorry. Like, and with a set face, I would add. Yeah,

it's like really, she's like this is definitely a new D. They're not going to fail me. And sometimes she'd write back safe. It's okay. Yeah. We're not all like numerically different. Right. Yeah. Well, we do have that great episode lined up for you today. Age of attraction,

“Jorge and John. We also have the secret lives of Mormon wives episodes that get into.”

Well, speaking of numbers, we have age of attraction, Jorge and John, and we'll get into Jorge's side of the Vanel and Jorge discussion disagreement for the Nazi eye to eye. And so we'll get some more information on that. Obviously, a lot of conversations are going on in the internet regarding secret lives of Mormon wives and the upcoming season of the Bachelor at sending around our Bachelor at Taylor Frankie Paul. It's obviously overwhelming the news and the headlines.

You know, it's very difficult to talk about. And I don't think we have the right things to say. Right. Now, obviously, these are very serious allegations in a very sensitive topic. Out of respect for those involved, we're just not going to comment on the details of this story regarding Taylor and Dakota. So, but, you know, it seems it does seem like the Bachelor at is going to continue to air and they are moving forward. And we have the secret

lives of Mormon wives. So, we are going to continue to try to talk about these shows as best we can knowing that there's a lot of sensitivity around these very serious topics. And we'll do our best. But, you know, obviously, it's, you know, we're just thinking about all those involved because it's it's as Taylor said a very heavy and serious situation. And our hearts just go out to all these people. Gas groceries eating out even on the tightest budget. There's no escaping them. But here's

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wearfigs.com that's wearfigs.com code figs are X you're going to love these. You know how you try to come for me for Ryan Gosling's Hail Mary that he threw through through that donut then you really that's A-I that's A-I and it definitely wasn't. We'll guess what all of the day is wedding photos that you thought were real where in fact A-I. How does it feel to have got? How does it feel to have got? By A-I. So I'm confused. That photo that you're like I just told this photo of them they got me it was

like such a clear photo of them. I don't think it definitely wasn't A-I. You don't have the picture and

“you're like look is then the altar. Three. It's Mary then. It's like that's how I sound it.”

Yeah I was like I don't know if I mean that's not real. I don't remember being like this is definitely real. I just remember being like oh you did say I saw the photos this morning they were at the altar though. Yeah and I guess the same way you thought Ryan Gosling had a canon of an arm. What she's does. Wait I wasn't real and been proven. Oh well he has a thing both my and Gosling and Zendia and Tom Holland did her all multi-talented so it's like easy to be

confused by A-I versions of them being even more talented and amazing because you already think

it's honestly hard to believe anything anything. I mean everything I see I'm like is it A-I? I don't know. I don't know oh wait didn't oh Matthew McConaughey recently purchased the rights to his voice. Yeah his voice and I think also his image so that like if they wanted to use A-I or something it's something terrifying world we live in that you may one day have to purchase the rights to yourself. Yeah he is a he's like a pioneer in the sense that he's like telling all his peers

and industry people to do this there's no like there's no playbook or there's no like industry people saying alright before we embrace A-I let's make sure we protect all of our people it's like if if you're smart enough like Matthew McConaughey you can do it but if you're someone else who's like maybe an up and camera doesn't have a full team doesn't have the awareness to do that. I just saw a commercial, maybe yesterday actually cornering or watching something and it had

“commercials and I can't remember what the product was but the whole thing was Jurassic Park”

and it was the first Jurassic Park with Laura Durin and we had male actor that's the

dinosaur bones okay that guy so they did a whole commercial in A-I and like bad A-I like when the guy's face turns it like morphs into like kind of like something else a little bit like it's just like it's bad A-I Lord Durin's face is looking wonky and it's just like they they didn't even have like the most like intense up-to-date A-I and they still put this fucking commercial out there because this is crazy the guy that the CEO of chat GPT or whatever

open A-I he was doing some kind of like business conference and it's my like I don't like you know it's in is a business owner I you know you guys know like I think we should look into embracing A-I you know I think there's elements of like I you know to me A-I is a tool like anything else and the tools are only as good as how you use the tools right like you know if you if you use a screwdriver to hammer an an-L might not be that effective you know what I'm

saying and like A-I if you're using A-I to think for you to do your homework to be like hey write me an essay on like the American Revolution you're not going to learn you're not going to

“develop skills if you use A-I to say all right you have to come up with the interesting questions”

you have to have it help you in things like that but what what happened what seems to be happening now is like especially kids we're all just cut we're not learning we're getting lazy we're getting dumber we're just having A-I do all this work for us that's not a tool that is like watering down our own intelligence anyways the the CEO of of open A-I was giving some conference and he said and he got a lot of credit like it was the only thing I've ever seen the entire internet rally behind

an agreement which is like he sees knowledge is a utility and what he meant by that is like he sees open A-I or other A-I companies charging for information like like yeah so so first you know open A-I was open source it's free it's it's a it's a it's a public service you know we're all going to put it out there for all of us to use and so right now we're all using it and most of it aren't using it as a tool a tool to like not help not not not to do our work for us but to help us do some

of the busy work faster so we can be more creative it will not come up with cool ideas for us like that's not what A-I does like it is is according to our Ben Affleck you know he talked about how A-I just kind of like keeps you in the mean but like they're now going to dumb us down they're going to make us all stupid and then when we're all stupid they're going to be like "no" okay for the 499 you're going to get us to this way it's terrifying you think yeah

seen the Laurax the movie version of the Laurax I'm familiar with it yeah basically in the movie

“version of the Laurax they make everyone pay for air and it's kind of I believe if I'm wrong clown”

me whatever I have a point I do think with A-I and think you might Matthew McCon hey it's like it should be the opposite Matthew McCon A-I should not have to buy back the rights to his voice and his identity from A-I. A-I should have to purchase those rights from the human being and it's all reversed and it's basically there's this assumption that once technology exists we immediately become indebted to that technology instead of that technology being indebted to us as

the people that created it and I just feel like there's this weird like dynamic going on that we just have to like it's here let's just do it and it's like yeah I think it's a tool but tools are very very dangerous to a lot of people because you cannot trust humanity to make good decisions with those tools famously humanity but don't worry they're pretty bad decisions with tools that they're given it. The head of the company is a well protect us in charges of utility for knowledge and

information but it also reminds me of just like even with like when streaming services came out right and it was like this like ingenious idea of like oh my god okay I pay 799 and I have access to all of this commercial free like why do I even need cables so you start canceling your cable subscription you're like they're only 599. 799 I mean way less for all these streaming services than I'm paying for cable next thing you know now it's like add tier next thing you know now you

have to pay for the premium premiums $30 but hey you might get a bundle with it and it's just like yet again like something that you relied on thinking that it was giving you convenience is now become a burden where it's like probably would be cheaper to have cable nowadays then all premium

“serve the illusion of choice and the illusion of free will you remember how great it was on a”

Saturday late afternoon to go into blackbuster oh yeah I used to go into blackbuster and it just like finding a movie and like was it there was it not there then you go to the counter be like did anyone return you didn't you got mail yeah I'll take you know it's just like that was a whole thing that was like people made core memories during that stuff you know have you guys ever seen the holiday yes you know when jackpot can keep wins it's one of the most romantic scenes

have ever seen in my entire life it's like just the two of them in that blackbuster and he's talking about scores and they're just having this moment and then doesn't happen there but like it's just there's there's there's a tangible element to so much stuff and so much connection like when you find those things and places like that like a blockbuster like those like communal spaces like a movie theater yeah like what is your job yeah like are so important like what kind of candy do you like and

“those things that like these like streamers and like all of this thing being immediate and”

giving you this immediate access like takes away that space for the connection with the people that you love anyway how you're friends sorry again I'm almost training 25 she sent a mental well my frontal lobe is forming and a world where we need wholesome quality television that doesn't feel toxic or too heavy thank god we have age of attraction thank god it really is kind of like a breath like I didn't expect it to be so like light and fulfilling well it's a it's a titillating topic

of age differences that it's you know it's it's interesting to a lot of people but I said this when the show is about to come out but like I love obviously I love being a part of the show but I love that they were having these interesting scenes that are relatable there's a heaviness to them a little bit but it's not so much like there's not like a good person or a bad person there's no hero in villain there's like there's like you know kind of understand this point I kind of understand that point

well we did covering episodes six and seven they dropped to last night and we're meeting families

I love meet the family situation it's always so good always like thanks I love like I didn't know

who was coming so I do like the aspect of like some of it was like the friends uh bifur being like oh my god it's my parents and I have never seen them together in like 10 years and like so cute but so interesting like you know what I mean it makes that whole like meeting Derek so much more interesting because you're like watching bifur and like how was she handling everything and the fact that they were like oh my god she's so comfortable but anyways no so cute uh and like some

number of other kids the Theresa and John of it all it's also a reminder which I love introducing the family specifically on age of attraction but just kind of whether it's the bachelor and it's home towns or whatever is that like it it really it should remind the audience that these people truly are in a bubble right and just like in the real world where we fall in love and like we just kind of

isolate and we kind of like go off to never never land with a person we're dating and we don't we kind of

disappear and we fall in love right and we kind of like and maybe we're dating someone we're like I don't know if this is going to work out you know I don't know what my friends are going to think but we just kind of do it anyways and then at some point we have to have those conversations with

and so when you're seeing Theresa have a bit of a meltdown she clearly has this connection with

“John yeah these these real feelings and and up into this point I think that Theresa's been kind”

of when these kind of negative thoughts come in or these fears or concerns up into this point she's been like I don't need to worry about that right now yeah I'm just going to I'm just going to push that away you know and that's such a relatable normal feeling when we are falling for someone where we're like we're not sure what our friends or family are going to think about it and now with these shows we hit them with the well whether you're ready or not we're going to do this and you see this

kind of like with Theresa this holy shit that make believes over you know the per 10 world is over and now I have to start thinking about what is this relationship with John look like outside of this bubble if I choose to continue to be in it and it's pretty fascinating is are they the biggest age gap where the woman is older than the man are they the biggest yeah 27 years yeah that's

I find them so interesting because I feel like her heart basically her heart is telling her one

thing and then her mind is saying something else and I kind of get it like I can see that there's something so special there but watching them it almost was like Romeo and Juliet like a love that you know is probably not realistic yeah I asked John about this and the upcoming interview but I thought it was really interesting they talked to John after the whole he met his kids and he was frustrated because he felt like Theresa didn't like gas up their relationship a lot and he felt like oh she was

more focused on our insecurities and and she didn't like talk about our connection and yet John laughed and then Theresa's kids were like you're clearly happy you look so great and it was like I thought it was this interesting that John made an assumption of what he thought Theresa should say and what it meant for his kids and didn't trust Theresa that she obviously understood her kids and what they needed and they needed in that relationship and her kids responded exactly how

John wanted her to respond which is to see that connection and they clearly did and yet John had a completely different interpretation meanwhile John's mom and sister are like kind of I mean more judging yeah definitely not giving and he's just like clearly she's older and I understood their pact of being like hey let's not like if you're gonna go in there and be like hey she has three kids like that's gonna give them an idea of my like let's just leave all of that

let them get to know me we don't we can bring all that information later they went in with that pact and then he's like yeah she's got kids yeah she's 54 yeah and then they're like well that's just so weird that she didn't tell us and it's like well wait a second like yeah they went in there together with that plan like I don't think showing his age yeah so in his age so in his age she's getting around his family being like he he ha ha let me tell you guys what's

up and what's really interesting especially again we talked about this on Tuesday when you have

like the age difference and older person a younger person again I think the older person is always

gonna have that concern that that the younger person has the life experience to handle the baggage we bring into this relationship whatever you know and you see that with John and Teresa you know him her kind of constantly questioning him it's interesting from John because up into this point John's been kind of Teresa's rock hey I'm not concerned I'm not worried we have a strong connection which I think is you know it's great to hear him say that but there's a part of me that feels like

he's not really listening to her concerns and not really understanding what he's trying to articulate

“to him of like what life is gonna be out in the real world and it will be interesting if they”

do decide to move on into the real world what will change from John's perspective because at some point like they are gonna have to deal with their age difference like we had to deal with that

you know it comes up and you can't always just be like whatever it doesn't matter it doesn't matter

sometimes you have to just acknowledge that the age difference does matter and that it does you will have to deal with it in different ways and you would a relationship that doesn't and I'm curious how those two would navigate it if they decide to stay together you know who I'll show their age Chris Chris with his mommy at the table yeah that was wild as soon as Leo leaves he's just like mom look at me she's like you seem so happy like look at me and tell me that this is not normal

because I want to go to the gym very much giving like tech like I'm gonna text you and you call

“me and say like oh my god you lost your key and I need like I have to get out of the bad day”

how to get out of the bad day it's very much giving Isaac mom so I don't look happy right like

which is so important and Leah is just there like putting your heart out on the line for the sky and saying love you yeah I was like yes no I don't think watching it back because again some of

“these scenes we didn't have the benefit of watching in real time but watching it back yeah I think”

Chris has been very cavalier I think was Leah's feelings and I don't think he understands how important this is to her and you know everyone who goes and ride TV they they come into with different expectations I think most people go on the bachelor it's like this is gonna be a

crazy experience but like you can go like I've always choked like yeah I went on the bachelor

because I got I've never been to Europe you know and that's true I wanted to travel but when I got there and I said okay well I'm going to lean into this experience it very quickly got very serious and then all of a sudden I am opening up and being vulnerable and talking about my feelings other people you know you go on the show with you never see them kind of lock in you know maybe because they don't develop a connection with the lead and then all of a sudden you feel this very different

experience from what you're experiencing from people who are sitting across the couch from you and they're just having fun and drinking whatever and I'm getting that sense from from Leah and Chris we're like she's very like I'm I want to find love I've struck and they found this connection with his younger man I'm going to give it a shot and I'm I'm I'm worried that Chris has alternative motives I have a question for the room do you what are your guys' feelings on like not necessarily

in reality TV but the idea of like a person who is like accidentally cavalier with people's feelings

“how do you mean accidentally like I think sometimes in relationships you I the idea of like you're”

trying to be nice because you like a person right but then you accent you know there's like things that get misconstrued whatever lines get blurred like what are your because I think it's unfair I think sometimes in these situations you look at Leah and Chris and you're looking like how could Chris just be kind of like leading her on like that when he obviously doesn't you know

part of it too specifically with the age differences I mean what is it's always a statement it's like

I'm an old soul you know I'm a chair for my age and you can both be mature for your age and still have aspects of you that are immature you know there's some aspects that you know Chris he's talked about how he's really stepped up for his family as his dad sounds like he's having some health issues he seems like at a very young age he's really stepping up in a meaningful way and that takes a lot of maturity you know and so he could be very mature on that aspect of his life

and completely immature when it comes to handling relationships and someone who comes in with you know I like like past trauma from relationships when we are all that are dating you know that's

“taking a really part of the thing about this I think a healthy when we go out there and dating”

you know if you're out there still dating I think a healthy baseline to recognize is that like to be in a relationship with me is you know like everything everybody or you know everyone like

everyone who's out there like we're you know you go online right now and it's always like there's

so many bad options all the men suck all the women you know are terrible whatever from the opposite side of the aisle and we're always complaining about it but like when was the last time it's just like I boy I'm I make a great first impression but boy a year and I have a lot of needs I have a lot going on when we date we act like make sure I have some things I can work on but overall I'm just like really fun wait are you calling me out right like this is me you know you're

something it's like all of that is true but then at the same time it's like yeah we're all fucking it's totally we're all a lot to deal with you know and think about year three you know and think about how Logan felt watching that sex scene play out where she's like explaining to him about for play you know I do want to say I do want to just say Logan great great five great guy you took one for the team yeah Libyan Andrew I feel like you know they seem good they seem great I think

they're getting a lot of criticism because she looks bubbly and fun and that reads young and she is young and you know I mean her friend was brutal and hidden him with the he could use some boat talk yeah yeah yeah that's like that's not funny that's just mean yeah I say that to me like not in front of his face you know like we could joke about it like later but it was just but at the same time I'm like I do like I did like her friends that I was like they were honest

and I'm like I appreciate that like have your opinion I don't think it need to be that brutally honest well what's interesting is like we all have friends like that and I thought he handled it pretty well because like you know if you are going to date someone younger they might meet mature for the age and you might have a great connection but just because doesn't mean all their friends are right you know and if you want to date them you still have to accept that part of their life

shut that all down you know you got to be like me you know that's not how it works you have you

“have to find that middle ground you know it's like make with some of my friends”

it'll be like the way he tries to connect with them and he'll be like so Chamblas tell me like three things in your life that you're loving right now and that are just inspiring you and motivating you and she's like Nick this is such a Nick ask question she's like I came prepared you're like why do I feel like this is a going deeper yeah like I didn't you know like hey how are you I'm good all right let's do you know we are a lot to deal you're all a lot to do

you really are I just like I'm just like coming up with an answer just in case

well also he's I don't know you know those commercials really like you're just like your parents

every day I get older is every day I'm like you know and I love I'm my dad's my hero I love so much about my dad but like realizing I was more like my dad than I realized I just is something that kind of throws you off and you know and you see as you get older you also see your parents as more human yeah and less like heroish and you see their flaws is lovely as they are and the things they bring and you realize oh I do that too probably like oh

that okay yeah so that's that's the thing that all my exes can't bring okay yeah no okay cool

“it's yeah it's why life is funny no and I feel like especially for like teenage girls I feel like”

you kind of spend that entire time making sure you're nothing like your mom and then it's like later on in life you're like oh shit I do so I get this problem you're like yeah sometimes when I'm like okay I guess I just won't tell you anything I'm like oh why? I've realized that I'm like my dad so which he might be listening to this I don't but yeah I've realized he's a very like I'm not gonna say anything about how my internal feelings

ever and I'm like wait fuck I do that I literally thought about these commercials yesterday because I had a guy come to fix the air conditioning and Connor wasn't there but when he was leaving he like had gone up to the roof came back and he was like yeah I was your compressor broken or something and I go I genuinely have no idea what that means but thank you and he was like he laughed at me and

“was like you know sometimes like a bunch of people like they just ask and then I realize that I'm”

explaining it to them and they have no idea and I thought to myself Connor Connor would a hundred percent be like okay so like was it the uh was it the uh the fluid it needed to be like you don't know why are we doing this why are we making this next week he just after he explains that you're still gonna be like okay okay yeah I'm not gonna fix that yeah I thought Thifor and Derek was very I feel like that showed her age a lot and just they're like I don't know if like him

her being clearly upset about like the moving to Dallas changing her life being like oh I never thought

I would like change my life for a man you know whatever I always told myself that Derek being like you know I just like give me hug you know like it's okay like we're gonna figure it out and her just being like no I actually don't want to be near you at all like and he's like I just won't piece at the end of this and she's like pace really good luck. I'm kind of reminded of like the conversation Mary we had you know going in your birthday it's like you in your early 20s you have

like your I have these promises and I was gonna do this and I'm I'm I'm never do this for a man or a woman or whatever Derek is you know has two kids he's 20 years older and he's like yeah I've been there but I've learned to not to be adaptable to roll with the punches like I've I've been down bad a couple times and I've worked through it and in that conversation you can tell that like they're they are coming from very different perspectives about like how to just how to

interpret their fears in concerns and she it's five for reads like she hasn't really dealt with some of these heavier moments in life and you keep hearing your talk about past relationships and these bad boyfriends and what seems to be working for her and Derek is like everything we know about Derek so far as he seems like a really stand up guy you know he treats his partner with respect and he's he listens and he tries to be calming but she's not used to that and she

feels she can tell it's healthy like this this the connection and how he handles himself but they are still figuring out through their lives still work together you know as she like I relate so much to her fear you know obviously like I moved here for Nick I had no friends here I had only been to LA one time before this like I had a life I had a job I had my own apartment

move out here move in with me I was like okay but I definitely wasn't like oh I always told

“myself that I wouldn't do this or like my friends I'm gonna just like be so like putting all”

my eggs into this one basket it's like at some point in your life you do have to like make that leap and take a chance and like see what happens and maybe you move back to Seattle maybe you know like I kept my apartment in Georgia until my lease was done because I was like maybe this won't work out you know I don't know and we talk about this all the time but like Naly is opened up about when she moved in New York as you know as a teenager and which is crazy and

blah blah but we probably don't work out if that doesn't happen because Naly had that experience as a baseline of like I'm gonna move to this new city and not know anyone and I'm gonna figure it out and I'll probably meet some friends when I was that age I was more like Fifer where my friends were my whole life where you know a lot of times you're just like why would you ask your best

“friend Eric of whether you should move like they're not gonna be equivalent you know but like”

they're so important at that stage in your life for a lot of people but yeah I mean at 22 like my friends were my whole life and their penguins were everything and I definitely needed their approval and so I wouldn't have been the position that Naly is in at that stage of her life having done very different things you know that I did and so that's we worked out because we didn't have similar childhoods and we had we live somewhat similar experiences at different stages in our life

and I think you're seeing with Derek and Fifer the more they talk there's a clear connection there's clear chemistry there's a lot that works but we're also seeing a lot that might not yeah it seems like she's stepping into that era that he's experienced before like she hasn't had the experience but this is the catalyst this is the thing that's gonna help her grow and if she moves you know yeah well we do have John and Jorge with us to unpack their experiences we get into

more of the drama between Jorge and vanilla we get his side of the story and who knows we might get both sides of the story at some point later in the future alright well up next Jorge and John you know how chlorophyll is responsible for how plants harness the power of the sun now you can

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a long time it's been a long time ago for me longer but yeah we started all these the same way

but i always is curious with this show and why did you guys say yes to age of attraction yeah and

just like what was the draw so we i talked about this with him the other day and he started cracking up my grandmother lives on a small farm in Iowa so Midwest connection um and i was thinking of the the story she has as a 93 year old on a farm in Iowa and i live in a big city Miami and i got this opportunity and i was thinking what experiences did she have versus what experience can

“i make and i was like it's an over and her for me it was um i think Netflix didn't an amazing job”

because they chose y'all as the host and your story is picture perfect and then with me i mean i i'm like the poster top for age of attraction because i'm you know my age and then actually i'm the poster top you know you're a poster top but not they're for them but but the the actual

thing is i've always believed you know like age not a factor and and i would say the last 10 years

has been plenty of times where you asked my age i'm like how old do i look and then just go up that because i don't want to get into that because eventually immediately you know a certain thoughts come to mind and you know it breaks the connection and i always was like if the connection is real then the connections real and then let's see where it goes from there so the age of attraction that draw for me was to see if what i thought was accurate and see whether or not it's true like an experiment

and i came out and bolt in and what i thought the john we obviously a lot of people have been very

“fast and it was your and trees is relationship and i think going into the show you know listen like”

uh the horhays of the world we've seen that before we've seen older men date younger women and you know it's certainly part of the show we wanted to explore but society in the world has been more resistant uh and has some double standards when it comes seeing older women dating younger men it was cool to see you and trees are represent of that type of relationship we don't get to see but coming into this uh experience had you had a lot of experience when it comes to

dating women older than you or was this something new? i have um fun enough i had a we were talking it wasn't anything official the day i got cast the girl i was talking to broke up with me because

i was so young and i missed the first call from production or was in the elevator got down

production called me and about 60 minutes before that said lady called me and said hey where you know it wasn't i was debating going on the show because i liked her i called my sister i was

“like what do i do? and my sister's like go you have to explore this and she made the decision for”

me so yeah i have dated older women it's not something i seek out i think i think my parents from upbringing and just how i was raised i think having an older sister has definitely helped me date um she's taught me a lot and we're really close so it's not something i look out for but it's done it before what was it about trees so that uh drew you to her well i say this all the time her the belt she was wearing just caught my attention i was like the first thing we talked about and

i love her style i'm in fashion she's in fashion you wanted to wear a belt okay it was like i'm gonna link up with this girl because i want to borrow that can i use your belt yeah i wear that belt as i think it's really good by she's i don't think in an experience like that is so surreal and having her and just having it flow so easily made it feel like well if we can do this here like we can probably do this outside

you know and it was just easy or hey we had a little bit of a moment where in the promise room you were asked a question oh i can't wait i'm glad you asked this question who i can't wait we did get to see this in real time okay but i can't wait for you to give you the story to it got it wasn't asked a question well i know the way you think it is okay well that's true you're asked a question do you have kids do you want kids in your response to that was

so you are open to having kids right you kind of you punted on the first question and you know why because i was like you want to play games so i wanted to tell her on our third day

i'm telling i have nothing to hide no no no then tell her now i don't like you

“manipulate my conversation so then i was like okay if you want to play that i can answer questions”

so when she asked it i just answered yeah you want kids we can have kids i'm interested in having kids i would have so yes was it slick yes um was i worried about my kids no was i embarrassed about talking about my kids absolutely not um it's something that i would have told

around the first i have no qualms about that um i just don't like being the interesting part

about reality tv is sometimes things are made awkward when they don't need to be and so i don't feel like it was it was an organic was pushed and i didn't like that so i bucked against it now of course i know it's going to look like oh or hate just lied about his kid or i didn't like it but i mean i mean you guys see you guys worked through it pretty well and it wasn't that big of a deal but i guess if nothing else totally get what you're coming from reality tv does push

for those moments but so does you could argue so does life and i think you know in in reality tv what it does a good it's a pressure cooker right and it and it accelerates time true and it puts people in kind of these forced situations to to bring out things that would otherwise take four months for a couple to kind of get to that moment right but from from vanilla standpoint it just kind of came across as almost slick or just you avoiding her question because even if that

question maybe she got prompted or why it why it happened in that moment versus the third one like at one point she was like he does not have kids like she's out there telling her girls and then you're like i got to tell her about my kids i like it so i created this moment where you clearly weren't on the same page and she had thought she asked you and thought she had received a different answer i know and you know what the the interesting part about it is as we had conversations further

she was like i don't even know if i want kids like she told me i don't even know if i want kids

like i it's not something that is the most important thing to me and i told her look so

i tend to be a little bit i will kick against the tricks if you try to make me to do some

“and especially if i think that you're doing it to benefit you know okay let's let's have some drama”

so i'm like no i wanted to tell her on the third date and you said no so no why now you want me to come in here like hey i'm 90 and i got four kids no i'm like no i'm just gonna be on my dime on my time now could that have looked disingenuous it could and i understand how it can be perceived and if that would have been something that my kids would have been something that we're made her say no then i really feel bad about it because that's not that's not what i want to do

what i really wanted to do was i want to tell you on my time like for instance what you said how reality TV speeds everything up right well one of the things i do if i'm dating is i'll i'll tell you right off i don't i have a problem saying hey yeah i i took it and it's what it is and you either take it or you don't and i'm okay with that i'm not that's not something that bothers me now my age you determining not whether or not you want to date me because my age not yet that

bothered that bothered me a little bit but now the jig is up i don't know everybody in the world so yeah i don't have that problem anymore so look i feel like the age of attracted to me a good favor because i didn't know i yeah everybody yes i hate it that i hated the way that went down i hated it i really did another big disconnect that you haven't even know had was the conversation around um celibacy it was a very fascinating conversation obviously i'm sure you agree

that you know when people are talking about their boundaries in the bedroom we all need to respect

“those boundaries that was in percent you introduce the conference i think the word you used a”

couple times was confused you felt confused by what and i don't want to put words in your mouth so i want you to give it to me your point of view but it seemed like you and you said you felt confused by what you thought the expectations that she set and then what ended up happening when you guys got alone so could you add some context to you know we suddenly got to hear some things uh i'm feeling like the phrase oral intimacy was was used yeah but i would just love to

hear just how you interpret that whole situation so when she raised the issue of celibacy in the promise room if we were in our day if we were in a regular dating situation i'd be like i'm gonna do but because of the age of attraction and the whole thing about the age of attraction is try something

different so i said okay i'm not gonna first i don't want any woman that i'm dating the

feel like she can't say something to me or tell me how she feels so i was like i'm open to talk to it so then immediately when we said that my viewpoint going to Vancouver was we're not doing nothing like we're just gonna be hanging and okay this is a different reality for me so now i'm living with a woman while talking right i'm doing a lot of talking right i mean we're going to be

any nation it was going on me while you know these guys are like oh so okay but um so i'm like okay that's cool and i have no problem with that i can control myself so uh when we even when we went to the bedroom i was like you know you're on your side i'm on my side but one thing i want to

make sure i'm never gonna disparage uh vanilla or her choice to want to be celibate but you know

it's like one of my uh mentors once said to me is to give good advice and set bad examples is quite confusing so what's confusing to me is if you're on that tip we don't do nothing where there's no touch in there's no nothing but when the lights went off that i mean it was it was confusing and so and and i don't want to make it seem the one thing i'll say is this i didn't initiate of any like it i did not because i respect her boundaries right and i respect you're like you're going to

pull a Logan and just be like all right goodnight right yeah i'm there so hey listen i'm like

“i respect that but you know and so here's the thing what what i started to come to understand was”

okay you're struggling with celibacy like that's something that you want but maybe you're not you weren't expecting it to be you know where we're at right now that's where i start so for me i felt like the issue should have been okay i'm struggling with this maybe we should just can you help me type thing but not like convicting me based on you know what so i'm going to confuse where when we go on the bedroom it we're doing different did you feel like she didn't give you the

space to ask for clarity or to have the conversation around what celibacy meant to her is that what you're trying to say um i i think so i i think that the conversation i i think i think you put it i think the conversation should have been explained to me with celibacy is with because if celibacy to you is you know everything but sex well then okay i respect that that's not what i got celibacy to when you say celibacy to me there's nothing right yeah i mean well

i mean in vanilla is very open about her faith and i feel like celibacy comes from that yes as a preacher's kid celibacy means nothing i mean i grew up in the church celibacy is

“absolutely nothing so that's why i think in retrospect the conversation should have been”

what is celibacy to you like what is it because if celibacy to her is everything but sex well then she she was right on time and i understand that but if celibacy is nothing now it's confusing

you know and one of the things that i don't want to do is like i think vanilla is an amazing

person who stand on that and i think that the with with vanilla i it became it was like night and day because in the bedroom it's one thing but then when we're talking it's like what do you think about my celibacy what do you want my and so it's like you kind of put me in a position right on i'm confused and that's why i thought it almost seemed like when you brought it up at all for maybe clarity purposes that she almost received as you almost kind of challenging

her her vow of celibacy is almost like an in in fairness to her she had opened up and expressed that like other men seem to have not wanted to accept this and you know i wonder if that's how she received it i think that's that's that's that's directly right directly correct i think what one of the things that vanilla and i had a conversation is she's like i don't do conflict well and i said well i do conflict extremely well my job is conflict i said and i don't believe you run

from conflict i believe you run to it because if you communicate anything can be said i was like listen any relationship it all comes out in the communication what you're talking about communication i i said uh and any relationship that you have if you have proper communication nothing can be there's no relationship that can't that that um can't make the problem i i forgot to exact quote but the problem with relationships is if i if you and i are in the same team and you think that i said

something disrespectful or whatever like in general relationships if we're in the same team you know

if you know me you know i'm never trying to hurt you so then that means there's a communication

issue so to me it was to be incumbent upon the two people is so what did you mean by that because i know that you would never purposely hurt me and then i think you get resolution so with vanilla i was always like well we could talk about it but i think vanilla one of the things like she said she didn't do conflict well it was like an affront to her like i'm coming after her celibacy which i wasn't like i just want clarity like give me clear if you say okay this is what we can

“do cool because i was cool with two weeks of talk that's fine if that's what it's going to be um i'm”

i i can i can restrain myself very well it's not that serious to me but i think that it was

i think that she took it as me challenging her her celibacy and i wasn't i wasn't i had no problem with it

John going into meeting Teresa's kids that was obviously a very emotional thing for Teresa we saw when we dropped the bomb when you guys that she was missing her this you didn't miss that far i know i heard did you know that she was not going to tell them your age to had you all talked about that not really um i genuinely didn't care i feel like it was hers and i's relationship obviously her kids are a massive part of relationship i thought of my parents my sister

my friend group my circle and how supportive they are and still are and as the shows you know getting the air they're still supportive i thought oh my circle wouldn't care how old she is so

why would her circle care how old i am so i thought you know if she doesn't want to tell them it's

it's not a big deal to me um that's that's just the truth it's her and eyes relationship um you know

“if we we're gonna make this work i think her connection with the kids the kids would see our”

connection be like all right whatever fuck it hold it however old this guy is like you know my mom's happening and that's that's really what it comes down to i'm assuming though like you you know because Teresa throughout the journey reference the the clear double standard there is when it comes to age differences between men and women uh was it easier for you to you know be her support system in that or like how did you find the balance between validating her justifiable insecurities

and at the same time trying to also encourage her and support her to like you know get out of her head and joy what you two had and things like that how did you strike that balance that was tough because i think i was like her rock throughout the whole thing and i don't think i really showed that i needed some support too yeah like her not really and the age thing was fine like her i didn't i didn't that wasn't a check oh she needs to tell the kids hold i am to make this real um

but i think i was and i gladly so but i was supporting her she had a lot more she was a lot more emotional than i was um and i think me supporting her towards the end kind of weight on me actually um that might not show but i felt like i was supporting her a lot and then when i would give a little bit it would be like overshadowed like you have less to lose you know my kids are here you don't have kids and i i told her the whole time i can't relate to your past

i can't relate to x y z you know she's been through some shit and i feel for her i do i can't

relate to it i've never experienced what she's experienced but i can hear her out and i think i

started hearing her out started hearing her out and then i lacked all right i need some support too though there's an interesting moment do you remember when you met her kids and afterwards you gave an interview you talked about you you feeling a little frustrated that she wasn't as expressive

“as you wanted her to be um about your your two connection do you remember that well i think”

if we're just you know being real i think she was just excited to see them and i think it was more i think that overshadowed oh john's here let's talk about john it's interesting i don't you haven't seen this yet um i don't want to know anything right after you left uh the first words out of her kids mouth was them just being like it's obvious how much you like john um so i'm just curious after you know you feeling this one thing and the thing that you wanted was like almost like her

your her kids to see that connection you didn't feel like trees said did that but clearly her kids saw what you wanted uh them to see i'm just curious what you think about them and i think the whole time i saw i don't have kids you know i don't know if i want kids and we talked about that all i don't know if i'll ever have that connection that she has with her kids so i can't relate to that i can relate to what i've experienced with my mom and my sister and our relationship with

“my parents um but i think that she was just so focused on seeing them and i saw how important”

she they were to her that i wanted i guess i wanted that validation because she just talked about it nonstop and then when she when you guys dropped the bomb that they were coming i saw how much of a wreck she was and i remember there's next like four or five days it was not good between us she was just like it was so maternal that she was like where are they where are they like it was it was like pure science almost like her like where are they are they safe like i know

it was it was rough sorry about that i shouldn't have shot me you know yeah i dropped it how much um you and vanilla's break up do you think it was because of the disconnect around the situation that happened out on the streets of Vancouver where the man approached

“the two of you do i think that was the reason correct i think it was part of it i think it was a”

culmination um honestly i did not even expect or the break-up to happen i feel like once again

communication is the most important thing to me i realized vanilla i mean you saw the break-up

she's running off coming back to me just sit there and talk about it it's weird to mature it those we could talk about i felt that she felt some kind of way about you know we had the celibacy argument whether you know in our little confusion there and i think that the the incident on the street i was i stand tentals down on that you know there's no there's no wiggle room for me um i'm in a situation and someone presents a danger to a woman that's around me

it's not there's no questions of how i'm gonna react to it no questions and i think that we even talked about it she's never been in that kind of situation before and so i think she wanted in my estimation i told her you can dictate how i'm going to protect a woman in my life that's

just not gonna happen and i'm gonna always do that so because of that you know it looks like

“that's the culmination that's the final blow and i think it was a culmination and honestly”

if i look at the breakup i think the breakup is we lack communication ability we if we can't talk about that i mean uh a situation when i'm Vancouver and celibacy then it's just no way do you feel like that was an age thing or do you think that just compatibility personality thing that's completely personnel has nothing to do with age i've dated you know and i'm not going to miss you know i've dated uh one time uh yeah someone young and a banana and it was not even

it's it's uh to me that's an individual you know basis that individual person that this is i mean vanilla went in and honestly she said i'm not good with conflict that's not going to be good because you're gonna face conflict now someone with a different personality that's probably a little bit more layback and not as gonna call you on it you could that can probably go over and we talked about that uh she said she's used it she told me she's well she's used to get her way

and i said well that's cool but if i see something that's not correct i'm a call you on i'm you know i'm not going to let it go those two moments her saying can you know admitting to you that she's used to eating her way and and acknowledging to you that she's not used to her comfortable conflict looking back to you feel like those two things specifically spoke to why you two aren't that compatible yes and well there there there were other things that

came up in our conversations that if i'm out in the world i'm like like i'm very heavy into black is very heavy now it was like who's more stress not like who so we're i was like you don't know any of those things so then initially i was like oh but then i caught myself because there was a lot of things about vanilla that i really liked like we had some good connection there

was i was they were the weird thing is i've never been so protective of someone so quick and that's

what i felt for felt very protective of her and so there would be things that were um that doesn't we're not compatible there but once again i go back to like what we can talk about it and then you know if if if at the end of the day we talk and we have good conversations about it and we just start diametrically opposed and that's cool but i mean i didn't think that any of it we didn't really talk about it i mean you have a guy we're in Vancouver and guys standing behind

or would have would have skateboard like literally behind like right behind or any talking crazy there's no way i'm gonna let you stand behind or like there's no way and so when i i told you i said go in front of me and i told him very simply you can either move or i'm gonna move i'm gonna take care of it i'm not gonna have that problem there's not gonna be i'm not gonna sit there and talk with you because he's not he wasn't rational in dealing with that so to me

“you she got upset about me like she's thinking that well i think you're overacted but see what”

me did just let him like what do you want me to do so that's not gonna work that that won't work but do i think that should break you i think that's a talking thing and you go okay let's get on send and how i know that is because uh after van and vanna we got back she admitted that to me she called me and she was like look you know i talked to my my my best friend and my mother

don't i don't have knee jerk reactions let's just all listen i mean you you uh like yeah i mean

like you you were you are clearly a great communicator but also as a defense attorney you you do bring a very strong energy yes you know and there was a moment when you in vanna broke up where she said i don't know if you heard this or if she's just talking to the camera but she talk she says that you talked at her not to her and i'm wondering you know throughout your life a listen i like to talk i can bring a strong energy but that's feedback over the years

i've received uh at times and i wonder if if you've ever received that feedback where despite you still be a good communicator realizing that like how how how how you talk to your girl it versus like how you talk to like other people you there's been some like blurred lines so to speak and is that feedback you've gotten in the past thousand percent absolutely no and i will receive it every day um ten times a week i mean there's definitely times i'm very i've a

i'm very strong opinion very strong will and um it's all black and white for me there are times

“when you have to pump the brakes and to me if that happens and you say that to me listen i think”

you're feeling like you're talking at me then immediately i pump the brakes because when i'm with

a woman i'm going to always respect if that's the way she's receiving it that i don't care what

i think if that's the way she's receiving it that's just the way she's receiving it and that means i need to change my approach now she never said that to me but one of the things with the now was and i don't know what it looks like on the camera because i haven't seen it but there would be times where she would talk and i would listen and then when i go to talk she's interrupted me and i'm like um just you talk i'll listen to everything you have to say and then

let me respond to it and i'm big on if you keep interrupting me then okay you and i have respect and you and i you're not even listening to what i'm saying because to me in order for me to hear you i have to listen everything you say and then resonate on it for a second not be planning what i'm going to say back to you because that's not good communication but to your point yeah how do you already have an answer i just got to right right like you're you're waiting like okay

i've had times where people like go ahead go ahead go ahead go ahead go ahead go ahead because i got some say well then how can you be listening to what i'm saying like that's impossible and so i kind of felt that with her and then you know times where she just ran off but to the vanilla's defense wanted to get i think the world of the vanilla i think she's a great person i think our communication styles are definitely different if she felt like i was talking at her please tell me that and if

“that is the case then i need to change it because it's not acceptable if that's what she”

feels it's feelings are hundred percent it doesn't matter if i'm saying no that's not what time that's the way she felt and there are a hundred percent and if that was the case then i would say okay well let me pump the brakes and let me try to address it in a different way because she's not going to take any of that in her way no not at all like so yes so in response to your question i have heard it before and when it has been said to me before then i back up and say okay let me

try this different way john when we came to the rooftop and told y'all that we're here in vanilla had ended their relationship how shocked were you we had a meeting we had and we all got together like the night before two nights before and the vibes were off and we all got together and vanilla was separated or he was over here and we all noticed it we're like the vibes are off and i haven't gotten the chance to meet vanilla really talked to her but you could tell

she was very isolated Jorge was even his you see his attitude his persona he was even quiet

so we knew something was up what happened was uh that was the first day she came out and she

asked something about celibacy and i was like when she raised it i said i don't know she's like how do you feel about my celibacy i said i don't know and she's like that's not accepted when i was like well we're in a state if i don't know right we don't know if we want to be in a relationship we don't know so i don't know because what i was really saying is i'm confused right like what does it mean and she did not like that and so one of the things that i'm big on is any problems that we have

we keep it in house right but uh she got a little upset one upstairs by herself without me so when i came up she's already up there i'm like i'm gonna get into no beef with you because this is not worth it and so you know then we come back downstairs and everything was cool you know then

“we went on a day which was the it was really odd because i think to her credit her snap back”

is good like in the sense of you know okay that happened okay let's move on because then we go on a date and everything be great and i'm thinking oh what it's we're good and then it's like what do you think about the same like that's like a good side or bad side i mean it can be very good because if some people linger and whole grudges and yeah that's not good and if you can snap back and say hey look i'm not gonna linger on that stuff that's good that's really good and then circle

one thing is that i want to make clear i'm never gonna be on you know vilify vanilla that's not

“gonna happen like i think the world of i think she's a beautiful woman i think that we had”

some really dope chemistry and some really dope moments i think that the breakdown and our relationship was communication that we did not communicate well and when you don't communicate well i don't care what relationship or what friendship you have it will not stay you know well i appreciate you guys coming on it's great catching up with you guys it's really a pleasure thank you guys back here and we said this to everyone already but thanks for being part of this

journey with us i think this was i really enjoyed making the show with you guys and it's really been fun to see like good quality people work through these complicated relationship dynamics

that i think represent dating culture in a very realistic way through the lens of age differences

but it's been a lot of fun um having you guys on the show and certainly Jorge wishing you the best of luck on your love journey and john i'm very excited to see how things play out with you and Teresa and thank you i think my love journey is gonna be me and my dog i don't want to argue well i will say it was very very different stories from Jorge and vanilla regarding these street incidents just to recap vanilla was like this guy was probably a hundred yards away

and he was running his mouth but i felt like Jorge my man what do i want him to protect me sure do i want him to fuse a situation sure but i felt like he could have diffused that situation a little differently and vanilla made it seem like Jorge instead of helping the situation kind of made it worse before he made it better Jorge according to his story that guy was two feet away

uh and and and and urgency was required here's the thing as a woman if someone was actually like

“making me uncomfortable i would remember that and be honest about that so it's like i don't know”

why vanilla would say he this guy was like farther away if he wasn't you know i i'm anyway that's all i will say i mean it's a really interesting thing you know like i i feel like everyone's in a while i feel like you know you want to know your man can protect you you know like it's just like can you beat him up if i wanted you to you know type of energy and i also think all but in real life in real situations very much like vanilla it's like i don't need you to

make a bad situation worse by like puffing your chest and and giving me this it's a turn on your tough guy you know and i and i think that's sometimes a fine line between like do you want me to beat the shenanow um or like could you need what do you need for me right now but i do think a lot of times uh guys will act out in a way that they think their woman wants and yet they're like you you made that way worse than it needed to be right they act out in a way that

their boys in the past would have appreciated right i ordered or egg dawn whereas like as a woman it's like no no don't make me feel extra unsafe because now i have to be worried about your well being as well as mine well said yeah yeah all right let's finish things off with a little summer house a little summer house apparently their midseason trailer just raw it looks insane i loved this episode it felt like it was just more of the same oh yeah but i love summer house

same i love more of the same giving these people hanging out in that house and i watched it a group of an adult act like getting teenagers while playing spin the bottle dare addition i'm sorry yes we'll say i had like sometimes a show is too much uh sometimes it's a little too like parallel lifestyle like we're just like maybe like i've met like i've been both i've been west and i've been Sierra like you have just like

and i'm like i don't know what to do i don't know what's worse i don't know which person i would rather not be right i'm okay i told uh dara about kissing Sierra oh no we'll see i think it's coming up because i think i don't think it was that i don't know you wouldn't want i mean teller obviously

“she's gonna see but like yeah i think you should tell her because it seemed not to be like a thing”

i was like Sierra's a little bit more passionate with Bailey than she was yeah that was like Sierra and Bailey's make out was hotter than Sierra and Katie is all right let's watch this trailer that was good that was a good look it's really good all right it doesn't not look octane awesome bear you spot a couple of things that stood out to me when west is like i'm just worried about Sierra getting her heart broken if you are in Sierra's camp and you're her friends

like that should be all you need to hear to i'm over a lot you know so the fact that he is in no way worried about his feelings being heart broken this is like the way he's saying it is if it's not his like responsibility like you know what i mean it's like oh i just don't want

expectations as to where you guys are at and and again i've heard this is obviously just a a tease and we're probably missing context but we have heard west refer this in the past

which is like he's always referring to the sexual tension but he also called to the love of

his life in the beginning of the season so it's just kind of like you're the one that's putting the shit out here mixed signals being like oh i miss her so much i'm gonna cry to all my

“classmates not saying anything to her but maybe west saying she's a love of her life is coming”

from a place of a guy who's never really been in love had a real you know it may be he's comparing it to i don't know what he's comparing it to but i think that context is probably important for Sierra to consider my read on the west situation is i like i don't know it's i don't trust him and maybe i'm i'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt but i think maybe there's a part of him that really when he's saying he doesn't want Sierra to get his get her heart broken it's because

he knows he doesn't trust himself and he doesn't want to like do it again and doesn't want to like

fuck and maybe but then i'm not saying that's it i'm not like saying that means it's okay or anything you're just denying any responsibility that west has in his own actions he's no he does have responsibility he's not 18 yeah like 30 yeah yeah like that's what i'm saying i can take oh i just don't i'm like that i'm what i mean it's like i understand where he's coming from but he like i think i've the tendency to like be more empathetic towards him when in Maria i didn't watch the season

“where he fucked over Sierra oh you should do so what's really tough to watch that moment and”

let in the episode where Sierra is this like and then this shit's gonna get aired and that's gonna come another thing and it's exhausting i just i felt for her in the moment so much because

my guess is they're making tv and on some level both Sierra and west are leaning in

to this chemistry that they clearly have that is a real thing right but two things can be true at the same time where for west it is he's leaning in but also like knows that he like his heart is not like is fragile about this he feels in control when it comes to the chemistry he feels was Sierra i think you have Sierra who's like i've moved on and i know it's probably not healthy for me but i'll lean in but like these that i really got fucked up in this relationship

this really fucking hurt me and we're got this who was who right and who's wrong this took a lot for me to move forward and now she's like making you know and it's like it's kind of real and kind of like leaning in but it's so fucking messy but she also knows that no matter what when this gets aired we're gonna have people talk about it and shows like you know we'll have commentary and like you know people will clip it and DM her and and say meaning i mean Sierra

she's got her she posted a TikTok of her on the Oscars right carpet with her for taking her for us like like the glitter the glamour pro is that but it's just like i don't know it just makes me think of like the way that how much more intense this Western Sierra relationship is because of the extraneous factors much more less so than the actual dynamic between the two of them is very simple they're both kind of into each other and they just have to decide like

if it's worth it or not but then it's been because of these comments yeah i had a girlfriend once before but one of my girlfriend that i had long in a different life time that maybe he wasn't

“i don't even remember i barely remember her she learns of a team subject or anyone else yeah and”

it like in my past life we broke up but we had all these mutual friends we all hung out in the same group you know we a month after we broke up we went to our best friends wedding that we both were standing up in and in it's like hot girl fin there you know you know what you do backslide nothing nothing okay the conversation between Kyle and Amanda where he's like i'm getting a manager and she's like so this is like a long-term thing

so you're like a DJ yeah if there was a moment where a man it was like we're done yeah that had to have been it i could just see that little smirk on her head she said it was like Kyle what was like i'm scared hurry like i didn't marry a DJ yeah and suddenly i'm in a relationship suddenly i'm the wife of a DJ yeah the best is that it was like her being like hey like do you think that maybe all of this stress and this frustration that you're going through like

maybe we should be like cutting some of the extra curricular activities and he's like you even want to talk about how lover boys stressing man it's like well lover boys you're bred and butter lover boys the company you built from the ground up either sell that company if it's such a bird into you and then get divorced and become a full-time DJ or handle your business at lover boy maybe you being gone every week and weekend DJing and not being able to invest that time into your

company is why it's such a bird into you saying the alternative is what's staying in the apartment all

of my life yeah and to bed with my wife and just watching yeah watching a show watching a show

“and just like taking part into the park and grabbing you know a dinner and not thinking about work”

or whatever it is like just slowing down being with your family and this stage of my life which

is similar to the ages of if Kyle when Kyle is this like but i've never been happier

DJing and it's i'm glad he's found his happy place but i could not imagine what to be like i mean again i'm dating some a married to someone younger than me i couldn't imagine if one day night comes home and was this like i needed well i don't know what would be the equivalent i guess DJing let's say she could DJ and she was like i've never been happier do you know music guys i couldn't ever do in this thing were like you're not there you're not there ever

you don't come on these trips with me and you know what just never been happier it's so i have my TV show i have my business i have my marriage but you know what really brings joy to my life

“do you get to leave when i get to leave it hammered and stay up until five a.m.”

yeah well then he was like she doesn't understand like i'm able to like go to these shows

and get lover boy into venues and it's just like okay so his lover boy the biggest burden of your life that you don't want to do or now you're saying it you also use it as the excuse and the reason us to why DJing is beneficial where i'm just like i just don't buy it i don't think these clubs are like putting lover boy yeah they'll sell it for the night because you're there but i'm like they're not continuously selling lover boy at like atrium in Las Vegas it does make me sad for

Kyle that like he just can't see what everyone else can see oh the Carl and the mid-season trailer being like you're about to throw away your life and your relationship everything you've built for what some fun for a couple of nights and now he's being like oh i i think the the tink girl marahigens is like so how and she's like i don't know who this man is well like no thanks it's like

that's your reality the tink girl just got a broken yeah and you just finally gave a

“party watch after 10 years all of the tink girl yeah like how she says i think i think that's what”

if i think yeah because you know seven for bed you know her name yeah i've got a crush on her but like one Googler what Googler or not is there name Ben and Bailey but then Bailey's fine that was just a show we all lost our shit the internet was crazy and fine yeah yeah they seem hot make out and then him like getting into bed after with her i mean like yeah you know hey she starts crying she's like thank you for apologizing to me i'm like you know really i love

my girl Bailey she's so normal she's so normal she's so north she's so chill honestly it's like and that's so real exactly and that's so real it is real you become so weird or some people become so weird when you're like interested in somebody yeah you start saying the wrong thing and then you're overthinking it it's like the worst it's like that's what you did you do it yourself yeah yeah like um it's so relatable i just know exactly every single time i know what

Bailey is feeling exactly every single time she's standing next to Ben and i'm just like girl i'm so sorry when Lindsay's at the table and she's like yeah i told Bailey to go for you and he's like oh you know yeah she also told me that he like gave me two thumbs down and she's like well i just said that like you know he probably won't have sex with you and he's like and his confession will be like well let's just be clear like when we were hooking up she said it was the best sex of her life it's like no Carl like

no one was doubting your game but that's not what she wants to perk up your chest here we hear yeah okay but it was yeah charming cute yeah i mean Liz is having her best life she's like i'm not really part of this class i pop in and out and when i'm here i'm just gonna start a bunch of drama and then i'm gonna take care of my kid she is a reality tv star i love how she comes in and she already knows what the fuck is going on yeah you don't have to sit through recap

well she got her recaps in the city yeah like a man and they thankfully don't show them you know like i'd need all i need is what Lindsay's giving me where where she comes in and she's like oh are we are we gonna are you gonna talk about making out with me behind my back my who needed that loved that need yeah everything Lindsay's bringing is great and the way they're yeah the way they'll do a quick flashback to like Lindsay the city getting the info going and then her using it immediately

as a weapon of mass destruction yeah like Lindsay being like or bathing like or I told Bailey that it's cool like you guys should go for each other that i'm just like it's just showing growth you know what i mean or like Lindsay trying to have a nice conversation with her all she's like how did i go like it's very much like you do your hair different okay and i'm gonna leave now

completely dumbfounded at her being nice to him that he's like i don't know how to respond watching west like rub faira and you can tell he's like blackout drunk yeah like you can just see it and you can still let it through the phone when he yeah and he's like burns then he scoots the chair then the arm goes and you see Sierra just kind of like what the fuck because Jesse's laughing and she's like what the fuck are these two doing and the west looking at Jesse being like oh

“fuck you up like you were so hammered out of your mouth you need to go to bed my favorite is the”

next morning when he's on the couch and they're like yeah you were like touching a rubbing on your sister's like stop it's not embarrassment from west that makes it hard for me to stay mad at him because he's just like oh no i love his line being like there's nothing worse than

not knowing if you were cringe and i'm never felt anything more in my heart you know what i mean

that's the thing about me and west Carl caught a stray when like you know Sierra and in the girls are talking about whether like west and him her actually done like would you give him another

“chance oh yeah which is like so real right like sometimes you you finally when you you know there's”

the whole phase of a breakup you know you're fucked up about it whether maybe you left the relationship they left you but you you your whole life was still wrapped you know you have so much history you all your Sundays were you know you had a routine and then there's this kind of weird you know you shouldn't be with them so you don't but you kind of hang out and then finally

you get to the point where you're just like we dated yeah i can't we did it or we never and then

you have Lindsey being like so let me just frame it for you i would never yeah milliers ever

“be caught in the same room with Carl Radke and you know and again she's just trying to talk”

to his girls but like it can't help but feel the Carl if he's watching it back you know like she's just fucking crazy like am I was like a monster but it's like holy shit but like that's this herper like she doesn't want to be with Carl totally get it but like it also like made it clear you know then Sierra's like well when you put it that way I'm not she is not at that phase with west where she looks at him and goes oh yeah what was she looks at I was I was I tried over

yeah I was it's I was sad over this thing you know and she's definitely not there but I've definitely

had that thought yeah it's very very very very little. it does look like a great the second half of

the season i'm really enjoying watching whether considering we let you know that's a very transitional season for them yeah i mean this i love this cat like all the new people i had a harder time with some of the new people last season because i feel like like Lexie got done dirty so it's not her fault or anything was just what Jesse did her dirty and so it was hard for her to have an actual character but like yeah watching with me i'm Bailey and Ben like i'm in kj like you know i'm locked in i'm

invested i want to know more about their lives well all right well that will do it for today's episode thank you to our guest John and Jorge from age of attraction we appreciate you all listening bye bye.