E1097 Ask Nick - My Husband Keeps Choosing Her Over Me

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(upbeat music) How's it going? - Good, how are you? - Good. - Awesome.

My name's Brooke, and I'm 27. - How can I help Brooke? - Yeah, so my situationship lied to me about being 10 years older than me, and I still went back to him.

Yeah, so just looking for some advice on how to not go back to old situations. - Have you done this more than with him? - Yeah, I've done this a few times. Just to avoid making new connections,

they do find connections sometimes hard with men. So, yeah. - Do you think that's the reason? - I think part of it, yeah. - I use dating apps and whatnot,

“but honestly, one in every huge handful of men,”

I actually have a conversation with. So, I just find it hard to connect, and yeah, I just keep going back to people that I know I should in, and yeah, it's kind of putting me in scenarios.

- In your pursuit of finding your person. Do you think it should be easy? - And I know you've said this quite a bit in the past, and I actually, I say this to my friends too, I don't think it should be easy.

Like, finding connections should be a bit of a process. You're not gonna connect with everyone, but the ones that I do connect with, I seem to hold on to for some reason, even if they've done me dirty, like, that credit.

- Why do you think that is? - I don't know, I really don't know. It's just an easing or just like a lack of maybe connection. So, walk me through this current situation ship. How'd you guys meet, kind of give me the important details

that led to you finding out you lied to you. - Okay, so just to give a bit of a backstory, so things have changed a bit since I've written in, but I'll go over a few things. So, we met three years ago on the street.

When I moved to a new city, he actually tapped me on the shoulder, and such me, you know, your gorgeous, here's my number, I'd love to chat.

Basically, we texted a bit before we hung out.

At the time, I was 24, and he told me he was 27, and yeah, we got physical kind of quick. This was also my first situation since being with nobody in any emotional or physical way for a year.

So, we did end up hooking up kind of quickly, and I didn't really know if it was gonna go anywhere, but we kept hanging out for about four months. Our humor didn't really line up, so I was kind of okay with what we were doing,

but things did get a bit deeper. We were going on dates and whatnot. Basically, he ended up texting me four months later and being like, I have a lot of growing up to do when I catch feelings, I tend to run, and all this.

So, at this point, I still thought use 27. We ended, and silly me, younger me, I did end up messaging him six months later, and well, maybe four months later, and for no reason, other than to say hi, and he immediately responded saying,

“I need to talk to you, do you have some time to meet up?”

I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, I wanted to tell you the truth about something I lied to you, and I was okay, just tell me over text. He's like, no, so he comes and picks me up.

I got in the car, and he basically says

that he'd been lying to me the whole time when we were together. And I was like, okay, and he's like, I was lying to you about my age. And I said, okay, are you younger? Because he honestly looked younger than 27. And he's like, no, I'm actually 10 years older than you.

So he was, yeah, 10 years older,

because I do tend to go for older guys anyways.

“10 years older is not that crazy, I mean, sure exactly.”

Certainly you would might have the prerogative, and it wouldn't be crazy for you to be like, I don't know, like, little too old for me, but a lot of women in your shoes would happily date a guy who's a great connection if they're, you know,

who happens to be changing. - So I explained that to him, and I said, why did you lie, because I would have been open to it. And he's like, I'll be completely honest. I'm embarrassed of my age.

I tell all my new friends that I meet at the beginning that I'm younger, because as I was growing up,

I always looked younger, so people would always card me

when I said my age, and I was just like sick of it. And I didn't think we were going to get serious. - But that doesn't make sense why he's telling people he's younger. I mean, if he was self-conscious about his age,

you would almost think he would lie about being older. - Yeah, I don't know. I didn't really understand it either, but he said he did this with his hockey friends, and he didn't want it to be this big whole thing.

- So again, what happened after that?

“- Well, look, you could-- - We know we went on our way,”

and this is three years ago again. So over the past three years, we hung out, or we got together randomly once, we went on the dry, we did nothing, we just caught up, and then about last summer, he texted me and he said,

I'd love to catch up for some reason, I did it. We ended up kind of getting into something again, but I told him like, I don't know if I can trust you again, all this stuff, we ended up seeing each other for about three months, and then I realized

if I was going to do this again, which I didn't want to tell him I any of my friends, I was doing it because this is my pattern, I go back to men, so I kind of kept that away from them, and I was trying to figure it out on my own.

I was like, I'm only going to do this, if it seems like he's grown up a bit, in terms of just being ready for something. And it kind of seemed like it did. He was progressing things, he was giving me reassurance,

he was telling me about what he wants in the future, and then a situation happened, and I realized,

okay, this is never, he's never going to be the person I want,

so I ended things with him, I can get into that if you want, but I sent you some texts, and how that ended, but yeah. - With some other guy or this guy? - No, this guy. - Okay, so is it over?

- It's over now, I sent him basically what happened was, he lives far away now, he moved there, because he wants to settle down and do that, but he lives near my couch. And yeah, I basically went over there one night,

I was like, I'm gonna be near you, if you want me to come by and drop you off dinner, I can, I show up, he is also a very regimented person, so he is a big routine working out the morning night, swimming out of the house every hour of the day, whatever.

So I text him, I was like, I can come, but if you are too busy or you have too much going on tonight, just let me know.

“And he's like, oh, I think it should be fine,”

just let me know when you're leaving, so I show up. And I gave him the out to know, to know, hang out, I showed up and he, this man was like, cold, he was just like, someone I didn't know, it was so weird, and something was obviously off,

so I texted him, and communication was a big thing, the second time around, so I'm like, I'm only gonna do this, if we can actually be honest with each other,

and - Which is never going to happen.

- Which is never going to happen. - Which he's never been, I guess, about his age, he did say, never lied to me about anything else, but of course, how am I gonna know that? But yeah, he ended up, I texted him,

I was like, hey, there was something clearly off the other night, like, what happened? And he's like, well, I was just so thrown off, I remember my routine, and I said, you could just told me if you were too busy,

and I'm totally chill, like, I could. - 'Cause we're keen. - Dude, when I tell you this man, morning, hour at the gym, lunch, gym, after work, basketball, swimming, going to the gym, basketball, till 10 p.m.,

I showed up at 10 p.m. and he was acting weird, and I'm like, okay. - But it's, yeah, I doubt it's, I mean, who knows, it doesn't matter. (laughs)

- And the thing is, like, it seems like maybe he just wasn't interested, and I thought of that this whole time, but at the same time, he was pursuing me at workly, constantly telling me how he felt and all this stuff. - I mean, what do you, I mean,

I'm sure you've listened to this show. - Yeah. - I'm ready to, all right. - Just give it to me. - Give it to me.

- But I want you to, you know, before I give it to you, so to speak, I want you to give it to yourself, and I want you to honestly think about, this is not calculus, this is not a complicated equation.

- Yeah. - And what I'm going to say is a version of things I've said to other people on this show, and I am just curious what you think. - Yeah, I mean, maybe since I've taken him back,

he probably, I just feel like he probably wasn't as interested as maybe I thought he was. - I want you, okay, try to answer this question. This has nothing to do with him. You called in and you're saying your question was,

So the question was, you were asking me a question

“about why you do what you do, your behavior.”

You did not call, your question wasn't about, why does my situation ship do X, Y, or Z? - So I want you to think from that perspective in that lens and analyze your behavior and why you are choosing you, are making choices

that you later find frustrating about yourself. And that has nothing to do with him. - Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, it could have been kind of like a respect thing towards myself.

- Oh, I'm sure there's a little bit, I mean, listen, the simple answer is why you do what you do when it comes to a situation ship, is your board? - Board of, you have like, you know, at certain times and we all do that, right, like, you know, like we're,

maybe we haven't found a fun connection online, we haven't met someone over a period of time

and you know, someone from our past

or someone we have some kind of rapport with pops back in our life. And it like takes two seconds to just hit him up and see what's going on. And then if we happen to hit some up

who's also board enough to respond or just, you know, or, you know, whether it's, in his case it's probably not board 'em, he's probably just like has a roster of women he talks to. You reached out for whatever reason.

The last time he ended things, he felt like things were getting too, there was too much pressure for him, you know, his team or whatever. So he was like, I can't, I don't know.

She's asking too much of me, I'm gonna, I'm gonna push this away some time pass. You reached out, that gives him the green light

to like, re-engage because he already like said his boundary

and his like, the touching which is like, I don't know, I need to figure myself out. Why do you give people a chance who lied to you? Because it's, again, fun, it's drama. You're caught up in a story, you know,

it's something to figure out. You know, it's something you can go back and ask your girlfriends, why would he do this? Why do you think a guy would do this? I don't know, and you guys can pow-wow about it

and you can go in the group chats. It's drama, it's something to do, it's entertainment, you know, and instead of watching, instead of turning on love is blind, or whatever reality TV show or drama,

show that you like to watch, it's kind of, it's a little bit of drama that it's, it's where the main character of, you know, it's, you know, we're involved in something to do. The problem with this is that, again, it's,

it's not helping you get to where you want to go. So like to, to, to try to nip this in the bud and stop doing it, how do you do it?

“You, you have to hold yourself more accountable”

and you have to see it for what it is. And if, you know, you can't keep making excuses like, well, connections are hard to make. Of course, they're hard to make, they should be hard to make. - Yeah.

- You know, if, listen, the, the, the, the end of me of great is good, you know, type of thing. So if you, you know, I don't know, yeah, I'm assuming what you want for yourself in your dating life, like what are your,

what are your relationship goals? - Yeah, I've been single for five years now. I've had a couple situations, I haven't worked out. Recently, I have been dating a bit more and it is mostly from the apps,

just because I haven't been going out as much anymore. It's also winter, but, you know, I recently did match with someone. We had a great vibe. We went on a few dates, but, and I am looking for a relationship.

- But what's your big picture goal? Do you, you want to, you want to get married? Do you want to get married? - Yeah, I want to get married. - You want kids.

- Okay, so you, you want to find a meaningful connection. - Yeah. - You hope lasts a lifetime or a great deal of time, I guess. - Yeah. - You want to meet someone that you trust enough

and they're incompatible enough with someone that you would want to raise a family with. - Yeah. - You know, bring life into this world. You know, face the obstacles and the challenges

that come with the beautiful thing that is to create a family,

“but like the challenges that come with that, right?”

And you have to like, you, you are not, when you're out there dating, you're not thinking about that. You're not even considering that. You're out there just like, you know, on the can,

just swiping, you know, playing hot or not, looking for a little bit of a dopamine hit, you know, and that's as far as you're going. You're just, you're looking for a good time, you know, you're just kind of, you, you've lowered your expectations

so much that you're just, you'll take anything that feels a little bit good. - That's fair. - No, that is fair. You know, I do find myself.

It's like I say I want this deep connection, but it is really hard to find.

I know you know that, and I know it's supposed to be hard, like we said. I even just had a guy we were vibing,

“and he sent me a calendar invite to more or less dump me.”

So there was that. - What? - So we hung out probably about seven times one on a few days. We had very similar personalities, good connection.

I was like, okay, this is live. And we had a talk, he's dual citizen with the states.

So he basically, I knew this,

and he told me he was looking for something at the beginning and I said, okay, great, let's try this, whatever. And then we were on FaceTime one night, and he tried to bring up this conversation, like, oh, how do you feel about the fact

that I might go back to the states at some point and us progressing? So I thought this was maybe like a step in a good direction, like, oh, maybe he's seeing this as in the future. Like, how do you feel about that?

I said, I, you know, not for you, but in general, I would be open to doing something long distance or moving in the future, but I don't know how you feel about, I don't even know what we're talking about.

“And then he's like, oh, let's continue this conversation tomorrow.”

I'm gonna send you a calendar invite. And it was just our like, like, our inside joke, 'cause our first date, he sent a calendar invite. And he sent a calendar invite saying, the talk, the next day, he calls me at that time.

And he more or less said, like, I'm not, I'm going on this spiritual thing, starting on Sunday, like, I need to focus on myself right now, I don't want to think serious. I was like, okay, that's fine.

We didn't do this wrong, but that's crazy. Yeah, so I think I just, maybe I'm the one that needs to be a bit more intentional with who I decide to continue talking to.

It's tough because my therapist always says,

like, she kind of tells me, like, I need to stop worrying so much about the future and like, just live in the moment. So it's a really part battle between letting things go how they're going and worrying about a relationship with someone in the future.

You know what I mean? - Well, your therapist is right. - Yeah. - We certainly all, like, anxiety comes from worrying about the future, feeling depressed is thought

and feelings about the past and not having those be resolved type of thing. But yeah, so like, listen, I constantly work on trying to be present and focus on the present and we all have anxiety and your therapist is right.

But like, you're not, you're not processing her feedback, I think correctly, in a sense. And in a way, like so much of your,

“you have to take charge of your dating life and your life.”

- Yeah. - Right now, you are letting the men you date set the pace of your love life. - Sure. - You are not asking yourself the right questions.

You're not listening to your body and yourself. - Yeah. - You are the only thing you are responding to is drama and entertainment. - Yeah.

- And it's keeping you preoccupied. Because you're clearly, you have the instincts. You're obviously a smart person. And if you would just take a moment and listen to your therapist, for example,

and be present, right? Think about, you know, forget about the future. What is this? How does this moment make me feel, you know? Hey, I'm gonna car with this guy, he's like, "Yo, by the way, I've been lying to you the whole time."

Oh my God, that's statement. First of all, that statement from anyone is kind of heavy. Right now, there are situations where good people make bad mistakes and sometimes get caught up in a sticky situation and say lie at whatever

and certainly there are exceptions to rules. But for a guy you barely knew didn't have much of a rapport with. And then in that moment had no real connection or reason to stay, that should be enough

to be like, can't listen. This didn't require a get together. Thanks for letting me know, that's weird that your lie to people about your age. Again, his explanation didn't make sense.

His explanation was talking about

who he's always looked young for an age.

That made that he didn't like how he was always getting carted, yada yada yada. And so now he's lying about being 10 years younger. Like why doesn't he not like his age? Why wouldn't the 37 year old who looks 27?

I guess someone who's looked young for his age, most of my life. And as I got older, you know, part of it was like, I could be honest because I always got the holy shit. Really, you're not, you know, like,

and so I got some positive reinforcement. Like it just, it doesn't add up that this guy who looks so young who's 37 is so insecure about his age. Like again, like if he, that just tells me, he's just lies all the time.

So he doesn't really know how to process like what people would actually think because I think most people would be like you.

I don't know, yeah, maybe you're a little old for me.

But most people men and women, if he was just honest about his age, would be like, oh, wow. And as a 37 year old, like there, you know, a lot of people would probably give him the better for the doubt, you know, like a lot of women your age

are probably very frustrated with a lot of the men your age. And a lot of women your age are trying to age up and hoping that they find a guy in his mid 30s who maybe has a little bit more, who feels a little bit more established at work

because maybe making a little bit more money

“who isn't still playing video games constantly, you know?”

And he should own that. Like the fact that he wants to sound, like he's still like is, you know? Now, probably, he is quite frankly from what you tell me, living a life, like a 27 year old, you know?

Very selfish, very routine and it's all about him, you know? It's, you know, and that tracks, but none of that should be a green flag for you.

But you're not asking yourself how these men

are making you feel. You're just responding to the feeling they give you and it's a trigger and you feel something. And like, listen, I get it. I know what it's like to be single for a long time.

And there are times where I was like, I don't feel anything. I feel nothing at all. - Yeah, I think that is maybe I am just chasing like something. - Yeah, but you really have to like check yourself.

And again, like part of that is just, you know, part of that is not thinking about the future. Your therapist is right. You're spending all this time worrying about finding someone, thinking about being alone, telling yourself

that it's not going to happen

“and put your mental state in this kind of like desperation”

mindset so that when anything shows up at your door, you're just excited that something is happening. - Yeah.

- But you have set the expectation in your mind

that like you have no worth that like you shouldn't have these expectations. You have men stopping you on the street saying, wow, you're beautiful. Like, would you like to go out?

Like, I mean, that should feel good. Like, why, you know, like, you know, you're not being everyone's type, but like, clearly, you have like, you can meet guys. Like, you've met mental life, you know?

Like, you are just telling yourself way too short. - I know, I know, I need to have more confidence in that sense, I think. And just like making better decisions, just for how it makes me feel.

Like, 'cause I know when I'm doing these things, like, sometimes I don't even tell my friends 'cause I'm kind of embarrassed of what I'm doing and I almost like know. - How old are you? You're 27?

- I'm 27. - I say this with love, but listen, it's time to grow up. - I know. - You know, as a 27 year old person who, like, you seem like,

overall you have your shit together. - Yeah.

“- You should, you know, if you're 19, you know,”

you're doing things that you know, don't want to tell your friends because you're kind of embarrassed. I'll give you a pass, you're 27. - It's so fair, you know?

- You know? - What am I doing? - And it's like, you literally know. You're literally having a conversation with yourself in real time being like,

I'm not going to tell you the truth. It's like, okay. Like, again, we've all done some crazy shit in our lives, you know, for love. And I think we all get a pass when we're, you know,

18, 19, and 20, 20 years long as long as we're not doing, you know, as long as we're not putting anyone in harm. It's way. - Yeah.

- Again, I'm not trying to critique, you need to be in toughest critic, you know? - I know. - You need to, you know, because you're just think of the energy, you know, and again,

this is like the thing I stress the most. It's like, whatever insecurities you might have. I don't even know what they are, right? But we all have them. And many of those insecurities,

some of those insecurities, this is like, yeah, this is how God made me, this is who I am, you know, can't fix how my brain thinks or works. And you're gonna have to learn that,

you're gonna have to learn to love that part about you. But a lot of our insecurities are just bad habits that we haven't really had the guts to fix. And instead of wasting your energy on these men or worrying about the future that hasn't showed up yet,

you could be like, and you could be, whatever self-improvement you want to make, you could be ticked and then you would feel good about yourself. You would be thinking about the commitment and the work you put in.

And when you do that, then your time does be get more precious when you start using your energy in ways to better yourself. Instead of wasting your energy in ways that hurt yourself, you become way more precious with your time.

Right now, yeah, you don't value your time and you're like, well, I could use my time to make this bad decision or I could use my time to do nothing. The your option is make bad decisions with men

or lie in the couch. - No, I honestly do, maybe it doesn't seem like it,

and not saying, I'm not saying you don't,

but what I'm saying is the way you've talked and I'm sure you do, but you could clearly be doing a lot more. But the way you are so quick to waste your own time at 27 years old.

And it's like you, I just like knowing that

“you need to set better standards for yourself.”

- I do, and it's like with dating, it's not, I rarely go on dates. I rarely am seeing someone like long like seeing someone like Alan Barry Picky, which apparently not, because they're going back to old people,

but with like people on dating apps, like I rarely go on dates and I think I can answer it. - Yeah, but that's not picking us. That is, again, there's discomfort in going on dates, it's uncomfortable.

That is you not being willing to push your comfort zone. If you told me Nick, I mean, I go on all these dates, I might say slow down and you're like pushing a little too hard, but like at least you're out there trying. We had a call or not too long ago

who was like who hadn't dated at all. She lost a bunch of weight and she went on like 47 dates in a year, and I was like okay, at least that was like her getting catching up with a lack of experience. And like maybe she needed to make some adjustments,

but like she was out there like, you know, just like really, you know how uncomfortable it is

to like have never dated and then go on 47 dates.

Like you imagine the amount of strange men that she had to interact with and meet and like kind of process and get over, that took real work for her. You know, but she will benefit from that because that was her pushing her comfort zone.

It sounds like you have really shrunk in your comfort zone. And then you'll use that as an excuse and you'll say, oh, and you'll call that pickiness.

“You should pick it up and look at it, you know.”

You should be picky, but you should push your comfort zone. - Yeah. - And try to find new ways to learn things and you should open to be surprised. And you can still be picky and still push your comfort zone. - Yeah, know you're right.

I hear you. That's good advice honestly. I think I needed to hear that. It's like I know these things, but just hearing it from someone else, I think, just kind of puts things in

for just interperspective. Like I am getting older and... - You're still young, I mean, like I know I'm 27. But you're just, you are definitely too old to be making 19-year-old mistakes.

- Now you're so, that's so valid. You're right. - I mean, and again, like you, you, all the signs are there. When you are embarrassed to tell your friends, don't do that.

- Yeah. - You're right. - You know. - Yeah. - No, definitely.

I think that kind of thing. - You have one friend to hold you accountable. - Yeah. - Have one friend, listen, I'm gonna tell you all my decision and like I just checked me, you know.

And listen, this shit isn't easy. I know I'm being a little like direct with you, but like... - No, I appreciate it. - It is hard, but you can do it.

“And you know, you have to listen, you know,”

listen to your therapist, you know, like your pain or your pain and the money. But they're right, you know, like be present. How listen to your body, you are not listening, that you do, yes, correct.

- And that's the best thing that you should take away from this call more than anything. - Yeah. - You're a smart person making dumb choices. - No, that is so valid.

And yeah, I just think, is there even a point of like, I don't know what I'm thinking by thinking that any connection is like worth it. Like if I'm feeling bad about it, it's like, it's better to just have no connection

and sit with that and deal with that than... - Well, think about what you just said. - That's really like that's really kind of insightful, right? I think we do take for granted the fact that a connection can be bad.

We can have bad connections. And I don't think that's something we think about. We think we hear the word connection and we think good. Now, good connections are great, you know, we need those.

They're arguably the most important thing in life

is like are the most meaningful connections or the only thing that really remember and when we look back on our life. - It's true. - And listen, we will always encounter some bad connections.

It will be those bad connections that you will remember those, but what you remember about those bad connections is how you overcame them. - Yeah.

- Right, but eventually when you're just collecting bad connections and not overcoming them, they don't really become positive memories, they just, there's weights. - But like maybe I'm giving myself a negative perception

when in reality it's my decisions

“that are putting me in these scenarios, you know what I mean?”

So it's like-- - Part of it is like, you know, I think maybe you could take a pause on dating, slow down, recalibrate, kind of just do your social life, right? Maybe just ask yourself, what friendships have I,

do what friendships do I have that are important to me? Are there any of those friendships that maybe I have haven't invested in as much as I could? Maybe that's family members, maybe that's friends? Just focus on that for a moment.

Check in with your body about how does that make you feel. I'm not saying you have to go cold turkey or delete all the apps, but I think you just need to recalibrate how you approach dating and really kind of

not to sound all guruish, but kind of really connect

with your body about how you show up for connections

and how these connections in your life make you feel. Maybe you have some friendships that also are giving you bad feelings. Maybe you need to evaluate that,

“but I think you need to evaluate the connections”

you have in your life. And think about which ones make you feel good, ask yourself, why do they make me feel good? - Yeah. - And should I reinvest and do I should

put more on some of these connections? And then when you really have a better understanding of how these connection in your life play a role at how you feel, then you can go out and try to replicate that

when it comes to dating. And while understanding that a lot of dating

comes with frustration and disappointment,

but enjoy the journey and have friends hold you accountable and be mindful of the obvious red flags and triggers like you're feeling embarrassed, feeling bad, don't get caught up in the drama of trying to figure out why some of these crazy men that you date,

do what they do. Like, you know, well, he said this and if they say one thing and do another, that's not something to figure out. That's just a reason to leave, especially for someone you have no rapport with,

or no connection or no real connection, like other than the fact that like, listen, this guy stopped doing the street and said your gorgeous, that's a really great meet, cute, and that's fun. It's, you know, but that doesn't mean anything here.

It's all it was, yeah, I know. Yeah, definitely some reflecting I have to do within myself, kind of stop putting the blame on other people when it's me who's putting this up in the situation. It's your right, you're very right, Nick.

- It's all right. - Yeah. No, no, it's great. - The world is full of people who will gladly waste our time if we let them. - Let's true, that's true.

I'm just giving people permission to, yeah. - And you are, you are doing what so many of us and so many people did do today is, yeah, letting people waste our time and then convincing ourselves that it's there, the problem.

- Yeah, no, I know. - Like they certainly have their problems for sure, but it's not your problem. And you're making other people's problems yours. And when you think about it in those, that context,

I mean, it should piss you off how much time you're wasting. You're waiting, you've spent mental energy. - Yeah. - Trying to figure out why this guy makes bad decisions. - That's crazy, right, you know, that's,

I mean, again, we've all done this, we've all, we all do this, we've all done that, but like it is crazy, it's crazy that we do this. - You're right, I have some thinking to do, I'm gonna go back to the drawing board and just...

- This is your life, you're in total control of it, you have a lot going for you. There's, and you should think of this, this should excite you, right? Because the good news is, is that,

however you feel now about what you don't feel like you're getting that you want. The good news is, there's a lot you can do. - Yeah. - Maybe you call me up, and I was like,

man, I don't know, it sounds like you're just doing everything great, I don't think like... - No, this is why I called, I needed you to do this, so that me straight to be honest. And like, I do feel like I do just in general in life,

take on other people's responsibilities and problems without... - I would guess that, I would guess that has to do with your, either unwillingness or fear or anxiety about facing your own.

- Yeah, that makes sense. Definitely, yeah. - Yeah, it's a lot easier, like, you know,

“I always say like, you know, that's why we love reality TV,”

because it is a mirror, it is a mirror for our own shit. We, I think the people, we criticize the most on reality TV, if really honest with ourselves or the people that remind us most of ourselves, or at least the people who we've dated, you know,

and it's a lot easier to go on, watch TV, turn off

who would want on TV, but we're just judging ourselves. - Yeah, we're doing that in replacement

“of actually taking the time to judge myself.”

I need to be judged by myself, you know, even like I need to be kind to yourself, but you know, it's just more holding yourself accountable and increasing the expectations that you have for yourself and finding, you know, more, more expectations.

I mean, I, you know, you know, more and more we are using boundaries as an excuse to not expand our comfort zones. - Yeah, you know. - To make sure, it's like I was in my boundary.

I can't do that, and when we say that we're boundary, it feels very justified. We're all just like, and we're just kind of justifying our stubbornness, our poor decisions, and it's all under the framework of, well, it's my boundary.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, boundaries are good, but like at first,

we need to have, what are our expectations of ourselves? Where do I wanna go? And what, what actual boundaries are I gonna help me get there? The boundaries can be used to like limit ourselves, you know?

- Yeah.

“- You need to be guardrails to keep us stuck, you know.”

- Be think of a boundary, a boundary, what is a boundary? It's a blockade, you know, it's a, well, if we're stuck, sometimes we could set up a bunch of boundaries that don't allow us to get out of the position that we're in. - Yeah, I need to be, I need to,

yeah, hold myself accountable and just mark on myself, stop worrying about other things and put responsibility on myself to make good decisions, because people aren't gonna make those decisions for me. I need to set myself up, but just fix that.

- Don't, just do it with a healthy and positive point of view about yourself. You've made some mistakes, you have them in perfect, no one is, but the reason why it should frustrate you is because you know, you deserve more, and you know

that you haven't been loving and treating yourself with the respect that you deserve. And you really want someone to love you in a certain way.

You gotta love yourself first that way.

I know it sounds like very guru and cool. - No, but it's true, you know, like you're just doing this. - Okay. - All right. - Got some work to do, I'll get to that right now.

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ready to help your business grow. That's UPWORK.com Upwork.com. How's it going? Amic, my name is Michelle and I am 29 and me and my best friend fell in love and he goes to me and I am just trying

to figure out how to process that and move on. Okay, so tell me about this best friend who is now since ghosted. He's still haven't heard from him. I haven't heard from him and I wrote in,

developed about two months ago. So I'm still not well, probably about a week after the ghosting started and yeah, it's been about two months ago, so yeah, do you know where he is? Is he alive?

I do, I do. We have mutual friends. I did have we shared locations. I was the one who took that away after a few weeks of not hearing because it was just obviously I was checking it.

I didn't need to do it. It wasn't good for my brain. So but I knew for a few weeks after that. All right, so I tell him in the story, I'm telling the story. Yeah, so I'll try to obviously I know all these stories are long.

I'll try to convince him as much as I can. But we know each other for several years. We had mutual friends from college actually like my very best friend and somebody else I knew for a long time. They went to separate college.

Just came back. We became one big friend group. So we were a friend group for several years. Just very, very surface level friends. I had been in a relationship at one point during it.

He had been in a relationship during one point during it. But our group did spend a good bit of time together. And then about two years ago was when both of us were single at the same time, our little friend group went to a trip that was just a lot of spent a lot of time together.

And I feel like that was when has an individual friendship really began to, you know, blossom flourish, right, blossom, and trust me, I've been a fan for a long time. Listen to this podcast for years.

“I know friendships really don't exist when once one thing became, even just I think”

male, female, single friendships, like there's always some-

There's always a dynamic, yeah. Right. So, but from there, I mean, that was when our individual friendship I feel like started, continued. And one of this, in one of this friendship, like, I guess, how did you guys show up

for each other as friends? Yeah, good question. I mean, it was a lot more of, just our communication became a lot stronger. But it was still like, I was dating, asking for advice. He was maybe dating, not necessarily asking for advice, but it was, we were aware of it.

Sharing stories. Sharing stories. We had things in common, activities, hobbies in common, that we would do. I should note, though, I do live in a different state at this point as the rest of this friend group.

So this was, like, a long-distance friendship with all of them, but I had been, you know, good friends with them for a long time before. But then you and him sort of, like, face-timeing and talking and- Yeah, more so just texting and, like, a, you know, appropriate friend things. I wouldn't say just, like, face-timeing out of the gate after this trip, like, just a

appropriate level of keeping in touch and whatnot, but he had a plan to potentially move to the city that I am in, totally unrelated to me. But then, so about a year ago now, him and our two other friends came to visit for, like, let's make a trip of it, come see the city.

“And that was when I think things begin to maybe push into more of it, is this can be potentially”

more than friends type of thing.

A kiss was exchanged, and then from there, I think we had a low of, like, nobody know,

we don't know what's going on. You guys kissed. We did kiss that night. And what was this about a year after the individual friendship? Were you drinking?

Were you drinking? Were you drinking? Okay. Was it sloppy? Was it a moment?

Like, you just kissed? I feel like it was, I think it was a moment because I do think that in the back of both of our heads that thought had been, like, let's not, let's not guess. Yeah. His feelings, but I would love to know how you felt.

I remember going into that night thinking, if I want something to happen, something's going to happen. And so it wasn't, like, a full surprise. And it was, like, so at this stage, Sharif are interrupting. You were probably feeling, you, you, you felt like you had a little power here.

I would say, so I'm, which is going to play in to probably this, the whole thing. And I'm, transparently have some nerves of this because I know it's anonymous and whatnot. But there's, and you'll see how just like, I know, all my friends are literally like,

“you need to go on because, and you need to hear this from, you need to hear this all from”

somebody else. Like, he's ghosted you. It's, it's so wrong. There's nothing to fix. But in my head, I'm still afraid of like, is this going to make things worse?

You know what I mean? So, I'm definitely, I feel like, you're afraid of, of him finding out about this. I, yeah, and I just, in general, I think I'm making it worse. Exactly. I mean, what does that make worse?

Exactly. Exactly. I know.

And I'm, and that's the problem is I've probably put, I've cared too much about his feelings

on the back end of all of this because I have, I see where I made, I can go out of mistakes. And so it's, I feel like I'm just, I, I'm, am a self accountable person to a fault sometimes we're like, it's like, what could I do to that? Anyway, back to that, the whole kind of the story side of things. We then had a little bit of a role there where it was like, well, what, what, we didn't really

talk about it, but I think are for talking, turn more to reporting. We had another group trip coming up that I think we were just both really looking forward to if like, what's this energy going to be looked? I don't know how he's coming in. I don't, I don't know if he thought this is just a fun little thing, whatnot.

But then we ended up having that trip. It was great. He immediately came to help me move apartments in my city the next, wait, wait the next week. And we just, this is after the make-out.

Well, was it a kiss or is it a make-out or like, it was a make-out. It was a make-out. It was a make-out. Was there heavy padding? There, it was, we were all staying in my apartment all for us, so, and he had, he wasn't an

orgy. No, no, no, no, no, just saying we were all staying in my apartment, like my best friend in her husband, we're in the gastrium, he'd been on the couch the whole time, he did not sleep in the couch that night, however, they did not go any further than that. Okay, so, no, he's slept in your bed.

He slept in my bed, but you made out for a bit. Oh, and the kissy. Okay. So that's definitely more than a kiss. Correct.

Okay. So timeline though, that was last spring. So about a year ago. Okay. Then summer is when we go on this group trip and I can see you again.

And then from there, it was just like, wait, wait, I'm sorry, I'm just, you didn't see him for a whole year? I don't live in that city. Not a year. Just bring to summer.

Okay, a few months. March, March to June.

“But after the, after the night of passion, what was the communication like with him?”

So they were all flying home the next day, but it was like that actual day in person was totally fine. And then from there, we just technically continued our like texting friendship. I think it got a little bit more talking probably every other thing. Sorry.

I'm sorry for interrupting. I just like, how did you feel the next morning? Like, when you woke up and he's next to you lying in bed, were your clothes on? Yes. Okay.

And what, I mean, I don't know, you, you, you talk to this guy, your best friend will get to that. I want to challenge best friend in a moment. But, uh, this is obviously, it was a moment. I mean, if I, if I, if I've had moments like this, it's hard to sleep.

You're just like kind of excited, you know, did you get much sleep? You know? Yeah. Yeah.

The first, I was like, it's hard to find myself back in that, but I think at first,

I was just like, oh my gosh, well, like, yeah, that happened. And then I definitely, I feel like it's less about how I felt that exact day and then more the next few months leading up knowing we had this trip coming up together, where I felt. So you guys essentially just kind of, just almost pretended it didn't happen in a way.

I wanted to pretend it, ah, kind of, I mean, yeah, kind of. Like, our, our communication didn't get weird, like, in fact, it picked up. It maybe got a little bit more flirtier, but I don't think we like acknowledged it until getting a lot closer to that trip.

“And that's when I kind of, I think we're trying to figure out each other of, like, are”

we on the same page of like, did we like that that happened? Are we like wanting something like that to happen again on this trip? And like, so then I went into the trip, honestly, pretty giddy.

for other reasons.

“And I realized how much I honestly wouldn't have wanted to go if he wasn't going.”

And so, but I still went into it not knowing, like, as much as again, we were friends. We were pretty surface level friends. So I didn't have a good view of, is he really even looking for a relationship? Does he just look at this as a fun hookup thing, whatever? But it was immediately clear on the trip then that he was very interested in me and

more of, like, in a potential rate of this entire way. Just, I mean, what we pretty much like, I'm a very straightforward person. So like, once the first time that we kind of like kissed on that trip happened, I pretty much was like, all right, what is this, you know, what is this to you guys? So you guys go on the trip and you guys, you, you make out pretty quickly?

I should, I should, this is, okay, it was a music festival. Okay. So we're spending three, you know, three or four days, it's all camping together. Drinks. Um, but it, yeah, so it was just pretty clear after that and again, we, like, the benefit

of having being comfortable with somebody is that it's just easier to have some of those conversations. Okay. So I just knew quickly as us talking about it, that this was, he'd been interested in me for a while, kind of was wondering where I was at as well.

And I was moving apartments the very next week in the city that I live in, he offered to come help and he did, and I remember being very nervous for that because that's when I still was like, yes, I'm like, giddy and I like him, but he's, there was just so much

“insurance of, I think assumptions I made around him, not my typical type.”

Um, and then, and that just kind of spirals until I'd pretty much the entire story of what happened is we ended up seeing each other for a few months.

I never let it become officially boyfriend and girlfriend because I continue to just have

so many hesitancies. And so, so you go to the festival, you have a great weekend, there's some making out. You guys have a conversation and you mutually agree to stopping just friends and start exploring a romantic relationship and you dated whatever that means in 2026. Yeah.

Yeah. And I guess at that point, then you started almost like realizing that you don't know as well as you maybe felt like you did. I think that I mean, when my girlfriend's had made a lot of, and you have said this to him, like, that made a lot of assumptions based on watching how he was to and a past relationship

that he was in for a long time during our entire friend group. However, again, a lot of assumptions on that, um, that I, again, I quickly brought up and I feel like I was proved very wrong in a positive way of just, yeah, that we were on like, again, I didn't, we're surface level friends. And the more I got to know him on my own individual friendship, like I really began to see

this is one of the best guys I feel like I've ever known and really cares and things just made sense of what I had maybe assumed and why I had assumed before. And I, I know I tend to do that as well. So I was just, I mean, from a person from a who he was, standpoint was beginning to see a lot of green flags, learning more about him too and like things, you know, obviously what

makes him who he is.

“And what were the seven green flags that you, like, or observe?”

Um, he always put, like, his friends, I don't want to say first because he's not, I don't,

he's not a people pleaser, which I also think is a green flag and appreciate. I've dealt with those and I, to be honest, I, like, last one that was kind of the case is people pleaser and what people think and that's where I was respect for them and I have a hard time with that. But this person, like, he knew who he was.

He, he'd always been a stand his ground. I don't feel like in any ways he was ever trying to be anyone for anything or anything for anyone. He was who he was. But at the same time, like, just a core thing of who he was, is he, he cared about

his people. And want to tell us, just do things for them and take care of them. And so I think those were big things that really were different from the past relationship I had been in. I think that's the biggest one that states, sticks out to me.

Okay. Probably because you didn't have it before. Yeah. Yeah. Just very much the day caught on me because, and I mean, another thing that might

just come into play in this is I just always questioning things, especially, I don't know.

Just there was other things, like, and I've said all of this into it. Like, there were other, maybe I guess maybe like red flags or things I wasn't sure about, or maybe like, ambition or, I don't know, but I knew I respected him. And that was different than something I had prior, and I feel like that really came from the fact that he was who he was.

Sure. Okay. Okay. Does anyone happen? Yeah.

So we pick up of basically just get into a few months of kind of dating, seeing, but I just continue to have the questions, though. Still long distance.

Not a pretty good job.

I mean, I'd say we were seeing each other every, I don't think we didn't go more than

three weeks because he lives in where I'm from, my parents, and it was pretty easy. It was pretty easy. It was really great job.

“So when you said you still had questions, what do you mean about like, about what?”

I think this goes back to just the fact of like, the spark and this like, when you know you're so, you so no type of thing. And like this, you can't traction and blah, blah, blah, blah, and I've, I think there was just, like, I couldn't help a kept feeling like something was maybe missing. I have one thought I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Hey, this Jeff. It's Jeff. That's Steve. Oh, there's Steve.

Hey. Oh, that's Steve. Love you. Bye bye. I apologize.

No worries at all. Okay. Anyway.

Yeah, just, I think this kind of always questioning, which I am worried.

And one thing I figured because this problem itself is inherently like, one thing I must make maybe I can get in this call is just understanding more about like, how the

“heck am I never going to always question everything?”

Because this is, you know, my friends is going to say, is my problem is I'm going to be an over-think or over-analyze like, a question, every little thing. And I don't know how to trust my gut because in the past, you know, class of story, but a lot of the, when you get those, when you do feel excited. It's, it's often the wrong things.

And I totally, I know that I've worked through a lot of that. So I was really trying to also like give this time. And to be honest, there were two different colors you had at two different episodes that really at the end for me of this little situation confirmed for me. I think that I'm making a mistake like not being with them, which I'm fast-forwarding here

because obviously I'm noting that, like, I ended things a couple times within this. Check us. Yeah, sorry. Do me a favor. Take so much as I want.

Do me a favor. Just take a breath. I want you to slow down a little bit. Okay. Yeah.

Take a breath. Take a big breath. Rewind. Rewind it. You're, you're dating, you're having questions, you're not sure about sparks, things

like that passion, meanwhile, you outside of your overthinking. Things are progressing in a pretty good way, other than you are overthinking. Yeah. I would say so. I mean.

“And then you said you'd try to end it a couple times?”

Yeah. So the first week and then he came to visit, I felt like a few days in. I was just like, I don't know. I'm just not feeling it. And then, and then we had, he was here for a few days.

So it was all me moving. You said that to him? He had. I did.

I'm always very, very transparent.

I'm not too involved. What was his reaction? I think this was, this was the two days before he was leaving. And I was like, I'm just not, like, how are you feeling? Like, I'm just, I'm not sure.

And this was again, the first time he came after we were really like, let's see here. Let's try this. And he was like, I mean, I'm really like enjoying it, but I'm feeling good. But like, you know, I, it was kind of a conversation of, I was just bringing you awareness of how I was feeling.

I wasn't necessarily doing anything with it yet. And we still had our next night. It was like the first real date night we've ever had. And so, again, the day before the first day, you're like, I don't know about like you. Yeah, which we've already spent four days together here, moving my apartment, whatever.

Obviously, he's here on a flight, so like, but we go. And it was so good. Like, I feel like the conversation was so good. I learned so much about him, he was really, really like, showing me how you felt about me, you know, had some like access service that like I wasn't expecting, you know,

droop of a bath at home, all this stuff, like, very sweet. And I just, then I left that like, okay, actually, you know what, I do want to explore this. So that's kind of how it continued for the next couple months. I just, I was, I liked him a lot, but there was just something that I was just like, why am I not so ready to be boyfriend and girlfriend and like, what is boyfriend and girlfriend

me into you? I mean, it doesn't mean anything. I think it's a bit. I mean, I, I'm just, you know, you had a feeling. Yeah.

Yeah. Things are going well. You're questioning your feelings. He's, I mean, credit to him in this moment, because like, you know, not to, we've lowered our, I think, expectations of men these days, but, you know, feeling like a lot

of guys would probably respond very poorly to putting it a lot of effort pursuing someone and then having that person be like, I don't know, there's something about you. I'm not into and, and his response was to not overreact and, and to your point, you know, have confidence in himself to still, you know, pursue you and, and go for what he wanted. Yeah.

Like, there'll be a lot of those of just me learning his, wow, his, I'm like a emotional

through these things, et cetera, et cetera, just why the ultimate ending has just completely surprised me. But. So then you, you, you, try to break up with him again.

“So there are a couple of months ago, but I actually honestly was ready for us to be, you”

know, boyfriend and girlfriend, but it was around the time of my birthday and it sounds so stupid, but I was like, I don't want our anniversary to be on my birthday.

So we'll just wait a little bit longer for the free time girlfriend and then ultimately, like,

that trip for some reason, it's just every, and I'll say this to every time he came here. I struggled. Every time I was there, I really didn't. And I think that has a lot to do with, I'm in a city that is a lot of just, like, over achiever, like, it's a bubble, it is a lot easy to compare.

I have a friend group that are, they're awesome, but it's all entrepreneurs who, like, do super well. I think that I just get into this kind of comparison mode of, like, is there more for me and I don't even just mean in him as a partner he is one of the best people I feel I've ever met, and but it's more of the life that I feel like it represented of me potentially

having, which gets into my, probably the things I need to work through, like, I don't know, just what I'm afraid of the future looking like and whatnot. So long story short, before I get into all that, like, yes, I did end up ending it at one point. And then I was going back to my hometown anyway, actually, for his birthday, I had already

bought, point tickets and something and I said, "Do you want me to come, I won't come with the opportunity." He's like, "No, come, like, it's still our friends, we're still friends." Because if he was very much, like, no matter what, no matter what, even from the very beginning,

even when we had this first breakup conversation, we will always be best friends.

From his point of view, we will always be best friends. Do you guys are calling each other best friends? Yes. And trust me, I even tried to have the conversation, like, we're not. Some things will change, like, and he, you know, he was always from his point of view, no

matter what, you are my best friend, and we will always stay best friends, like, even when I'm having this first ending conversation, which he did say down the road, broke his heart, he is, like, in the moment saying, "It's okay, like, you're still my best friend. It's all good." So, went back for that birthday thing, ended up me being, like, "Oh my gosh, I'm dumb.

You're amazing. We should continue to try again." So, we do. And then same thing. Same thing happens.

Just he comes to visit. I don't know why. So, I ended it. And so, that's pretty much, like, how the romantic side had ended. But same thing.

Stayed best friends. And then, and when I say stay best friends, like, which I know, this is not, but, like, same level of communication, same texting, same still face timing, long distance, and watching our TV shows.

“The only thing that changed is not saying babe, no flirting, like, but the emotional, you know,”

and this point, you guys have had, like, hooked up and had sex with the love. Yeah. Yeah. So, at what point did you listen to these episodes? So, I listen to these episodes, after the, like, ending second ending.

So, we're, like, only friends. And they were two different episodes, but kind of similar. One was a girl who had moved, moved for her boyfriend, and then didn't, like, the town or something, moved back. And she was just talking very much about how he's kind of like, he's just a nice guy.

Like, he's just a nice guy. I don't know. And just, what you were saying, and what you, and listening to her, I was like, this is how I sound, and she's annoying me. Because this is like, I, I just, I'm looking at the wrong things.

Like, I'm looking at the wrong things, and it was just, like, hearing it from a different point of view, hearing myself talk, was just, like, making me realize, yeah, that. And then there was another one that was a little bit more recent, and she, you were just

kind of talking about, like, you're always looking for the, kind of the drama or something

to be wrong. And it was, like, somebody, you were, yeah, she had a good relationship and was really nothing. She could say wrong with it. Because again, it's like, same thing.

And I just feel like, that's always gonna do my problem. It just made me recognize, like, these things about him that made me feel safe.

“Like, my, my, is my best friend, like, why am I, why am I looking at these other things?”

Like, I just, I feel like I have people around me here, or some people around me here, that, you know, the guys, they make a lot of money. They're super successful. They're whatever. And I remember one night, and this was the night it actually flipped for me, where I was like,

I want to be with this guy. Those out with all these friends, and I was just looking at these guys, and I was like, you guys are so unhappy. You, you, you, you make so much money, you're doing all this, but you guys are so unhappy, and I do not want this life.

And yeah, so it will point to you. So, again, we're still like friends during all this time. And then, to not add too much confusion to the timeline.

Again, we had been just friends, like, the last time things had ended,

“and we were in October at this point, but we spent some time together to play our sports activities.”

And it just, we just kind of like, fell into each other again. And that was at the point, too, where I decided, like, I do want this. And we said, all right, we'll kind of talk about this a little bit more. We'll see each other again over Christmas. Now, the whole caveat to this was he was potentially the reason he was potentially moving here.

Or he was potentially moving here again, way before all this started outside of me.

And that was always the plan until he got a job promotion that then told him he could not move.

And he was fighting on that, because he's still again wanting to move here regardless of me. And we found out after this Thanksgiving little twist, twist, whatever. And before I go home for Christmas, that they said he was not allowed to move here. And I feel like that's where everything flipped. All of a sudden, like, he, like, we went a week where it was just kind of spotty talking.

And then he just went dark one night on me, didn't talk to me for like four days. Then did reach out, apologize. I thought we were good. I thought the door was even open the way he was saying of, like, let's just see. I mean, even on that call, he was, like, no matter what we're always going to be best friends.

And then saw him over break a little bit. We had some hard conversations, but about. And he was just emphasized to say, I'm just not, I just can't, like, go into this right now. But I want us to stay friends and just see if it kind of comes back.

And he was, like, let's watch our show when we get home.

When you get home, because we used to, like, face time and watch show. And he was, like, you fly home tomorrow, okay, great. Let's watch tomorrow. I get home, text him, nothing. And then, like, five days later, his New Year's Eve.

I get a text from my New Year's Eve being like, "Sorry, work's been so busy. Ben Slam." Like, let's watch our show this weekend. Which I know he only texted me because he was with our friends.

“And, like, my best friend probably brought up to him like, why the hell are you not communicating with her?”

And then I was like, okay, no worries. Like, yeah, let's do it. And then, since then, nothing. And I've obviously reached out a couple of times. So, yeah.

And so, at any point, were you like, yo, are you alive or? So, I mean, my last message to that we sent for, like, the watching the show or whatever. I was like, oh, no problem. Like, I hope you had friends New Year's Eve. And, like, I did.

I was yours. And then, I said, do you want to actually watch tonight? And he was like, I can't. And I said, no worries.

And I was at, and then the next day, I needed help with something that he's always helped me with before via face time.

And I just asked quickly, like, you little easy favorite. Hey, can you help me with this? I need it for tomorrow. Didn't answer. Try to face time later that night.

Didn't answer. And then a couple of days later, I did send a text just kind of saying, like, hey, I'm trying to meet you where you're at. You said you wanted to be friends. I, you know, something that was worked really well. But just basically it was like, if you need space, if we need space, that's okay.

I just hope with everything we can respectfully communicate that with each other. And nothing. And so, that's the last thing I had sent. Again, I know he was alive because, like, I can see him on, I could see him on time, my friends. I've seen some stuff on social media.

But that has been it and our other, my two best friends have not seen him either. And we're in all, we're all in a big group message that he's not super active in. But like, hasn't said one thing sent. So he's kind of disappeared on the group. He's disappeared as far as I know.

And it's hard because we're a little bit older. They're all, like, out there and we're all 29. And they're all, like, kind of moved down to the suburbs and stuff too. So it's not like everyone was getting together as much anyway. But like, yeah, it's been really nothing that I've heard of.

And the last big update that I'll say to see of all the information is that I ended up sending a handwritten letter last week more for myself. But just because a lot of this has been me being angry at myself for everything that kind of happened between.

“And like, why did I have to just question everything and not know and whatnot?”

And so a lot of like apologizing for that, but also, you know, saying it's wrong, how he's going about this. But for giving him for it, too, and just really saying like the only point of this letter is like, I would just really love clarity. But there's no, I'm not expecting us to be anything. I'm not expecting it, you know, no pressure. Obviously haven't gotten an answer.

He doesn't take his mail frequently. I know that. So, but that's where we're at. It's possible he met somebody for sure. I mean, I don't, I don't think he had met somebody, but at the ghosting time. But at this point, I definitely, I mean, for sure.

Why not? Just because given where, like, I mean, like, a lot of this has made you question things. But like, who I know is a person. I don't think something would have happened with us over in skipping in Christmas. And then even when we did talk over like Christmas break, I even kind of said, like, I'm afraid of you, you know,

Like, I need to work on myself and he, like, kind of flat, which I know means nothing, ultimately.

You guys are making out and stuff for Christmas and stuff, it was. So, so it's, there's so many details that I, I did the first night of break. I stayed over there kind of on accident because my parents are a little bit far away from downtown. And all of us were down after football game. Um, alcohol is involved. I had gotten picked up by the, at the airport's I know car.

And it's pretty much like, tiny could say here, and he was the one that very much came in that night and started to kiss me.

“And I would have stopped it and go, does this change, like, the fact that he said you're not ready for anything or don't want this?”

And he was like, no. So I, we got into a whole conversation that night about. And I mean, just things I've left out and like very much a hundred percent he was hurt by the whole thing. And like, that was finally expressed kind of in that of, you know, he was very afraid that I'll just do the same thing. I was a comment made of like, I know how this goes.

You're just going to change your mind again three weeks. But like, I don't feel like the fact that I would just even bend their spending the night. If he was seeing somebody before all this very possible at this point, he is for sure. Well, most likely it's not like a one day he wasn't with anyone the next day. He was in a committed relationship.

You know, it's twenty twenty six. I keep saying that. But like, you know, the lines of exclusivity are so blurred these days, right? So that, yeah, it's possible that he like had met someone. You know, did, you know, maybe on nap or out, maybe didn't even think much of it.

Because that's like the one thing, you know, while you're talking, my, my, my back of my mind, I'm like probably meant someone, you know, like, you're, you know, Well, you know, what is it? Act in the razor, I was supposed to hit it. The simplest explanation is usually right one and so like what's changed.

Nothing's changed, you know, he's been consistent with this communication.

Well, it would be the one thing that would make it really hard for him to continue communicating with you in the way that you guys always did,

which is there's another person in the equation that he is pursuing and liking and feeling some of the same things. Maybe he felt with you. Doesn't know how to tell you that. And then, you know, you know, how things happen. It just kind of happens fast.

And he wakes up. But he's like, well, now I'm kind of responsible for this other person's feelings as well. It's being responsible for yours. And that's necessarily responsible. But like in the sense that like, you know, you, you establish emotional connection with someone

friend or, you know, someone you're dating, you realize this person is counting on you for emotional support, you know, things like that. And, you know, it would make sense that it's hard, hard to, hard to do. You know, it doesn't make it okay. But I wonder if that's possible. And since now, none of your friends have, he's kind of disappeared from the friend group as well.

“Wouldn't maybe make sense that he is his time as maybe involved in investing in someone else?”

Yeah. I mean, it is definitely possible. I suppose, especially because I, the way, and this is where now I reflect on things of the beginning, where I'm like, maybe a little of my assumption that we're kind of right.

Like, he was seeing somebody the first time we hooked up.

Now, the way he phrased it to me was very different than I am learning that it was presented to others and her. But I feel like, why would that say that again? What happened? So like, when he, they came to visit, you know, to year ago at this point the first time, like anything ever happened and like, he had been seeing somebody.

He probably wouldn't phrase it that way, but he had been talking to me. Well, he told me it was pretty much just like just looking at like nothing at all and come to find out. Like, even my husband was like, I thought that they were like, like, boyfriend girlfriend the way that he talked to her the way that, like,

“so it's not really presented to me because I think he liked me and would have picked me in like one of that opportunity.”

But now, anyway, so all, obviously, it's for sure possible. I think we're only reason I'm like hard as just because we were even as a just friend. Or I knew where he was pretty much every night with like his kind of hobby, if I'm a friend or we were literally face to tell me watching our TV show. So I'm just like, I don't know when you would have, but it's, you know, it's possible. I live in a different state.

And so you wrote this letter a week ago, he goes to do what in early January. Last I heard was January first. Okay. And so you're, you know, you're, what do you want, like, what kind of help you with? Yeah, well, originally when I wrote in, it was kind of like a, can this still be,

because I figured he was going to pop back in since this was like now the third, fourth time he went dark.

I just, I couldn't believe that this happened, especially given up until this point I'd always had all my friends.

This is the best communicator I've ever been with. This is the most emotional mature person I've ever been with.

“Now I recognize I think like there's a difference between emotionally mature and being able to have her conversations and just like compartmentalizing them and then then blowing up later.”

But I think now it's just like a, how do I move on and I know it's just time and I know it's, like it's really not my ego. I think it's more so my, just trust and I mean, I guess her ego, yeah. Yeah, give a little regret. I regret. I have, it's not like my ego in terms of like, how could you, like, what's wrong with me? It's like, I'm, I'm just hurt, like, I don't understand how, yeah, I went from what it was and all those things were said and to this and how to just kind of like move on because it's obviously gotten a lot easier, but still like yesterday was just a random day where I'm just like, what, what the hell.

And then also, I think it just, it makes me worry that I'm going to have a hard time dating because was this somebody that was really it and I just overanalyze and looked at the wrong things and like at what point why just no. And yeah, it's just, I've had a very hard time dating. I mean, yeah, as everyone has very, I mean, I think everything your experience is very relatable. I mean.

“I think in terms of helping you move forward, a couple of things you need to just try to do or start doing or stop doing or whatever. He's not your best friend.”

He was never your best friend.

You guys had a close relationship. Yeah. So like you just won, you have to change your narratives that you're replaying in your head. So right now it's just feeling very heavy because in your mind you're like, I lost my best. You know, you're, you're, you're making it worse by being first of all, like, I'm, you're questioning yourself, why do I do this? Why do I say, I can guess myself? I lost out on this guy. I really like, I then I also lost my best friend. It's just like, no, you, it's just the one thing. You, you've lost this very meaningful relationship, a relationship that over the course of this past year or whatever the timeline is like, was your go to guy, you know,

you know, and played the role of your boyfriend as we, you know, you've heard me talk about the show is like these kind of heterosexual friendships where there's these like, do I have feelings or I not have feelings or even when I was very single, you know, I had a lot of women friends.

Some of them were to straight up platonic relationships, you know, especially from my point of view, but there's this always someone.

And that equation, who is wondering if there's more or not. But again, you, when you are single, and you are a heterosexual person with friends of the opposite sex, even if it's just strictly platonic, they're playing, they're playing the boyfriend girlfriend roles. And then, like, for me, I probably had like a handful of girlfriends that, like, aren't minus the physical aspect. We're playing that emotional support that a partner offers. I was getting it from my women friends, you know, going out to dinner.

Let's grab a coffee, coffee, late night chats in the middle of the night about whatever. And even if you're talking about your dating experiences, it's just like, just having that person listen and that comfort, that safety, that safety, that security blanket, you know, and you lost that with this person. And that's that, you know, that makes you really sad. And that's normal.

“But what you have to stop doing is romanticizing, no doubt you're romanticizing in ways that you weren't romanticizing it when you were questioning yourself, right?”

You know, you're questioning the relationship. And I think this is something to just be mindful of, like it's normal and it's human. You know, you don't have to start, you don't have to keep asking why, you know, about that. And then, another thing you really have to try to stop doing is replaying the various conversations you've had with him, specifically what he said to you. He said this, but he said that. And that doesn't really make sense. And why would he say that? And, you know, it's like, we say things in the moment.

Things out. You, they've acknowledged that you have said things to him. And then backtracked a little bit. You know, there were certainly no doubt times where he was probably confused. You're like, I don't know, I mean, actually, like this, he said this last week. And this week, she's like, "No, dang it, you know?" And, you know, when people say things to us, it's like, "Ritten and stone." You know, it's like, well, if you take me seriously, you can't, you can't say that to me and not mean it.

And versus, I mean, how we treat people. Because when we're on the side of our confusion and uncertainty, we have those built-in excuses.

You know, we give ourselves more grace about our uncertainty. You know, and it's like, well, yeah, I mean, I said that, but I, you know, but I wasn't thinking about this. And it's new as you've already popped in my head and things like that. So, you're, you know, to help yourself get over it. It's just the rumination of questioning yourself. Because then you get into the weeds of, and it becomes very confusing. And then you're like reliving that relationship back in your mind. And again, this is so fresh and so new for you.

So you're kind of in this stage of, and you miss him and you don't have him in your life. So a lot of the times that you would probably call him, the shows you would watch together, you are, you are enjoying in a way. You're preserving that relationship by, by missing him, you know, by romanticizing, by ruminating and things like that. Normal. It's, again, still fresh, but you just have to try to stop doing that. Yeah. You know, that's, that's a big thing.

Yeah. You know, and, yeah, I mean, like, as far as like going, you know, if he, this is a good chance he met someone. It's just, it's just, you know, it's not because he's so busy at work.

“No, for sure. And that's what he kept, he kept saying at, like, at work, like he'd see on my friend, which it's just ironic because every time he'd see her,”

he's the one that brings that to her. It brings up the situation, whatever. And like, brought it up to her at new years and was like, yeah, we had a really great conversation for it. And she's like, well, she said, you know, as I heard from her in three days, like, and that's when I hear from them, you know, but he, yeah, I don't know. He, he brings it up. He, every time he's like, well, yeah, it's because I've been so soon to work. I've been so soon to work and it was this new job and whatever. And I feel like in my gut, like, I don't think he had met somebody up until the point of him ghosting at could be wrong.

But I mean, I mean, who knows, maybe he didn't meet anyone, but it's definitely a possibility of this at this point for sure that there's a reason. Well, the fact that you are, I don't know how to say this, but you are, it doesn't, you're like, well, is it possible he met at this part, you're, you're, you're in a way are trying to protect him. I guess, and his, and what you think of him, because it's just like, well, if he met someone at this point, then it would be really fucked up about what he said to me or what we did.

Yeah. And then I would have to think differently of him or be more mad or whatever. And then also I'd feel stupid, and I would feel played a little bit or lied to. And so, you know, you're protecting both yourself and your ego and how you think of him by, you know, like, well,

“I don't know if, you know, it's like, I'm like, I think he met someone and you're like, maybe, but like it really matters to me.”

If he did meet someone when he met them and when he started talking to them. No, you're not wrong because I do think like this was somebody who from the beginning. I said to all my friends and a reason why I feel like I even, not the reason I questioned it, but I was like, this just feels so safe.

Like, I had never had anything before where I wasn't like kind of anxiously triggered, like, in my anxious attachment was zero.

Like, I felt so, so good. And so I think I think to your point, like, if that, all those things about him that I thought were true, begin to become not true in that scenario, it kind of feels it didn't all flies. Let me ask you this year letter. Did it really put everything on the table? I think the dead. I'm actually very proud of it. There's literally nothing else I could have put.

“I mean, it was me apologizing. It was me being mad at him. It was me forgiving him. It was me because I think to,”

and this is where some of my friends were like, Nick, Nick will be good for you. He will tell you to stop. Like, I have still thought, like, oh, is there something in like the last text I sent that could potentially have made it seem like I

was saying I didn't want to hear from him or like trying to find a million excuses why he or

then I'm like, well, maybe he was ghosting me, which is wrong. But he was planning to reach out in like a month and then goes and sees that I unshared my location and thinks it's because I'm mad and it's like, no, I just need it for my mental health or whatever. So I was like, making up all these justifications of. And so the letter to me was like, I'm not, I mean, I am mad, but I'm not mad, you know, like,

just every at telling him like, I did, I miss him, I wanted clarity, like, I... How much that letter was a reflection of your back and forth? I'd say, like, at least it was a two-page full from that or notebook. I'd say probably 25% of it was, I mean, I, yeah, a good bit apologizing for that. And why I felt that way and, but why not?

And did you still shoot your shot in this letter? No, I said at the end, you know, I don't expect us to be like, you, I said you could be seeing somebody.

I think that, you know, the action show me the case with that.

There's no pressure from this letter. I was a big thing on what I highlighted because I think that he shut down previously because of the pressure. I just said, all I am looking for is like, and the only thing you could help me with is clarity or closure. And if I don't hear, like, I hear that too. So... Okay.

“I think you should feel really good about the letter.”

I did. Okay.

Stop wondering if he read it.

He doesn't check his mail very often. Yeah. I mean, you know, maybe, maybe not, you know, and to your point, you wrote it for you, right? If, I mean, he will, he will get the letter, you know.

How often do people, like, receive, like, regular mail? That's not junk mail, but has, like, a handwritten. I did the, I did the math with, with when I sent it. And like, he should, you're tracking the mail. You're tracking the mail. You're, yeah.

I'm shocked that you didn't, you got it. I'm shocked that you didn't require an air tag, yeah. Like, or, like, a signature of receipt. Oh, good. You know, like, you hit the mailman hands over the letter and you take the photo of the guy.

And he's, like, called that. I got to send it to the, he's alive.

“But yeah, I think just, you got to feel like you, you, you, you said a couple times that you still need, you, you, you, all you want now from him is the clarity.”

You're like, you have the clarity, right? Yeah. You, the, the answer, the specifics is so, you don't have the Y. The Y doesn't really matter. You know, he is, he's, he's not where you are right now.

And let me ask you this, like, if he showed up at your door, holding the letter with a tear running down his eye and a flower in his hand and was this like, I love you. You know, and what would, would you, can you confidently say that all your doubts about the two of you or your feelings about him and the certainty of that this is a relationship you really want to really try. And I know, and, and I don't, and I don't mean, oh, you're certain he's the one because you, you would never be certain in the moment, but just someone that you were like, I am no longer going to get in my head and I'm going to get a question things.

And if I wake up one day and don't feel like, like, I want to jump his bones, I'm not going to like overanalyze that and question the relationship, I'm just kind of like, you know, still enjoy what I enjoy about him rather than question my feelings.

“Are you, are you confident that that's where you would be?”

That's a great question. I, I think that my hesitancy to say yes is the less of a him problem and more of like me and and therefore then let me it's to kind of my. Fear going forward with jaded dating of just my always over analyzing, but I think if I had to choose this one of those sides, it would be it would be yes, but I would still be saying, but I don't know that this is my person that I know you're saying like I don't know it's okay if you don't know he's the one, but that's where I feel like I'm.

It's like at what point will I ever stop over analyzing and decide that somebody is. I don't know whatever, you know, when you're ready, I guess, you know, that's a you thing.

Yeah, I mean, for me, you know, like I, you know, before I met Natalie, you know, I've told versions of this story over a million times, but yeah, I mean, I was single for a really, really long time.

I'm going on a reality show to find love in your in your 30s having been someone in my 20s who is I guess a hopeless romantic and very much like, you know, I wanted to emulate my parents and then I kind of had to recover from that, you know, and in my late 20s. I grow up a little bit mature, you know, and kind of process like why I did things and didn't do things and what I didn't. And and recognize that some of these relationships that I really pursued and fought for were not because of the love or it was really just maybe a combination of my emotionally maturity and just the toxicity of the relationship and I confuse that with passion and and romance and things like that.

Before I met Natalie, I had a lot of questions about like, when will I know I don't, you know, I, I have so many times remember when I was dating and I dated, you know, a lot of great women, you know, sometimes for a couple weeks. I had some that were a few months long, you know, whatever they were, so call them situation ships, you know, we were just like casually dating and I remember like even saying to friends like I sometimes I just feel like I just have to pick somebody, you know, where I just like because I don't, I don't feel this like.

Driving force, but when when those relationships or, you know, those things ended, it was a little sad, you know, I was a little like, you know, there would be moments when I'd want to call them and see what they're doing, but I never really missed them, you know, I was never really like, you know.

Then I was just was always thinking about Natalie, you know, when I was with these other women.

And I was trying to pretend I wasn't thinking about Natalie, you know, and I was like telling myself, like, you know, and that for me that was the, you know, and at that point it wasn't like, I know she's my person, you know, I know, I didn't, you know, there was all, all by insecurities and all my questions still existed.

“You know, because as a someone who's also an overthinker and a rumonator, I'm really good at finding the, the problems, you know, I think that's one of my strengths and business.”

Yeah. Is that like, I'm good at coming up with ideas, I'm even better at critiquing other people's ideas, not to not to be a dick, but to just to help workshop them, you know, and so when it comes to my own life, I'm really good at poking holes and, and in my personal life. Yeah. Yeah. And, but with Natalie, it was more like, I remember having this very specific epiphany, if you will, which is like, I had been single for all these years.

I had met some great people and while I have no regrets about the ones I didn't pursue. I remember thinking, I haven't really gone for it, you know, I haven't really tried with anyone. I haven't really tried to see where anything goes, and that was over the course of, you know, years, five, seven years. And it's like I could have dated some of these people, ended the relationship, and still be where I'm in today.

But like, I never tried, you know, I'm just kind of casually dating and waiting for a miracle to happen.

Yeah.

“And, and you, I think, you know, it's like, I remember because, you know, for me, it was my dating life was, you know, late teens early 20s.”

And again, you know, you, it's easy, you know, you are less than a call, you have less experience. You're overthink, you know, you're, you have, you're not damaged goods, you know, and by, you know, my damage goods, you know, all of us who have been hurt by people. I didn't let on, you know, or, you know, just, you know, people have wronged us, you become cynical.

But I never really tried, you know, I never was as like, and so here I was dating Natalie, having these feelings.

I missed her, I thought about her a lot, still very, in then I could think of a hundred reasons why this could go wrong. And I thought to myself, I got to at least try, you know, and this is someone I really need to, you know, I would regret not trying. You know, and if I never try, if I never put myself out there, and with a willingness to be wrong, you know, because as we get older, and at this point I'm 38, 37, I don't know, some are around there.

“And I'm like, I'm 37 years old, and, you know, like, at that when you get older, I don't know about you, but like, for, you know, when you're in your early 20s and you have some heart, you get heartbroken, right?”

And when you're early mid 20s, you still feel old, you know, you're, you're just like, and then when a relationship ends, you have that common feeling of like, oh my god, it's just like, that's like three years of my life gone, you know, three years of my life, I can't get back. I have to start over that feeling of starting over when a relationship ends is such a heavy, scary feeling, you know. It's like, oh my god, it's all over again. Oh my god, you know, it's just like, and so I think a lot of my reluctance to like jump into relationship was like, I don't, I don't want to like invest in someone and give them a year to have for two years of my life, and then realize that they're not the one, so all these people I dated, you know, and never really went for it.

I just kind of like, I just, played the relationship out in my head, like, well, you know, like, listen, I don't want to think of what it's not going to go or something like, let's just know, you know. And again, with now, it was just like, well, I can't, can't do it that way, you know, I have to just try. So this is all to say, you know, I think hopefully this is a lesson you've learned at whatever you are searching for. Yeah, we all want to spark, we all want to feel a little bit of excitement, but I think as we get older, we have to reframe what that excitement looks like.

Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned the word safety, and I think that's something you've listened to show you hear me really preach that Natalie, as always made me feel safe, but more importantly, she's always made me feel loved.

But like, even in those moments, I was like, this person really makes me feel like she wants to put as much energy and effort in this relationship as I know I do. And for me, that has really been the key for my Naly's relationship is that, you know, whatever ups and downs we've had and and as all couples do.

“In my past relationships, there were, there were moments for like, I think she fucking hates my God.”

You know, like, I don't know, how do you feel about me? Like, you know, and with Natalie, you know, and it's like, and then there was like, I don't know, she's really putting in the effort or I feel like I'm doing more at times, but that wasn't the case, you know, with her. And, and that was a different feeling and that was something that really I cherished and I leaned into. So, you know, I think going forward, let this be a lesson that, you know, you have the spark, you know, this, these things of so much about what you appreciate it about him was like how he showed up for you.

I could rely on him and how he handled himself and different situations compared to the other men and other men. And yeah, that's something you'll just have to remember and not maybe, you know, like not question, not pull back. You know, I think maybe in the, in the future when you're feeling that maybe I know you're like, I wanted to be a direct person and I'm a direct person.

I have found at times that like that's not always the best approach. You know, sometimes I could just keep my inner monologue to myself. Yeah.

Because like sometimes, you know, you say, you know, there have been never have full times where I don't know what the context was where I'd say something to Ali and it to me was like a throwaway thought. And then three months later she's like, you know, one time you fucking said that to me and I'm like, what I said and I could tell it like it, it's sat with her, you know, at the time she didn't like react. She didn't like react to it. She didn't like it. It didn't become a fight. But she remembered it. And she felt a certain way about it.

And her way of processing it was not to be reactive in the moment. But I realized that it, it hurt her feelings or at least affected her in a way, you know, and so sometimes we just have to be careful about that and how people react initially. It doesn't necessarily mean it didn't bother them or it wasn't it. So, and a lot of that, a lot of those moments come from me just like probably saying too much in the spirit of honesty and transparency, you know, and direct communication. So, you know, that's something to remember.

And yeah, I mean, there's no magic thing I can say to make you feel better. And it sounds like you kind of know a lot of the answers already.

“But you just have to try not to, you have to accept where things are today. And you have to as corny as it sounds be grateful for the experience.”

You're, I mean, it's it's so annoying. But you do. Well, and I think the things that just resonated with me the most in there is is really the fact that I do just probably need to give things a try and see it out because I do think that, I mean, I'm an entrepreneur as well. I think I very much have those like I want to just make sure it all puts works. I can see all the issues with it. I think forward what not. And so all the term in yeah is this already. Well, all the reasons that won't work. I know I'm only 29 in my head. I feel old. I feel like I'm one of the last ones here, not in a relationship. So I'm like, I don't want to waste that time, right? But in the end of the day, everything is going to go nowhere until you give it something.

Yeah. I mean, one of the best lessons I've continued to learn and be reminded of as I get older when I think about my past relationships.

Well, one, I don't think about them a lot, but when I do think about them, I only really think about the bad moments because the bad moments have now all turned into amazing memories.

“And I think really when it comes to relationships that don't work out that we survive and process and work through those of them, like, I don't, I don't remember.”

I don't sit there and spend a lot of time thinking about that one time with my one girlfriend where I did some romantic thing and we had a good, I mean, I mean those happen, but I don't reminisce about them. I don't miss them. But I really, I, when I, if a memory pops into my head, I will think about, and I was really down bad that day. I've, I've placed at some crazy shit, you know, I remember him really hurt.

And I, and I always think back and laugh, you know, I laugh at myself, I chuckle, and but I also know that, like, I don't feel that way anymore.

I survive, I work through it, you know, I have a different perspective. And those are just like really useful memories because every day something shows up in our life. Every day there's a problem, there's things that makes us make us anxious, you know, there's things that show up that scare us.

Ruminate about this guy, now's the time to, like, focus on how to get past it, get through it. But if you never talked to this guy again, at some point, you will only remember how you got over it.

And you will only remember some of the crazy or times that you had or times that you were most confused. And I don't know how you will think about it, but it will be a happy memory. It won't be, like, there's this, I don't, there's just no way five years from now. You're going to be like, fuck, I really fucked that up. And he's the one that got away. It just won't. And 100, it won't. It won't be. It just won't be. I really, you know, especially because again, even if he met someone right now, you guys have this fairly long history.

Yeah. You shared a lot of great moments. Yes, you were back and forth and confused, but you did. You put your heart out there. You really went for it. You wrote this letter. You put it all on the table. And if there is something there, maybe he still needs the processes, and I'm not saying this to give you hope. But like, if, if there is something there that is worth you to really giving this another shot, it'll happen. Yeah. You know, and if it doesn't happen, there's definitely a reason why. And that's a big reason why I, I needed to write it because it was like, if I don't get an answer from this, like, that's, that is clarity. That is, you know, so yeah, I mean, and I feel, I feel good about that.

And I think that part of this conversation has, like, didn't make me realize like, damn, I really do wish I truly did see that through, like, that is my, I think problem is that I am

“poking holes and not, like, so what, maybe, yeah, we would have dated six months and maybe it would be. Yeah, but you have to, again, just learn the lesson.”

But, like, again, when I finally came around, Nally was there, and she, and she was ready to pursue something.

And, you know, and, and because I felt like I was really being sincere and well, not perfect, and, and certainly, she had reasons to be justifiably frustrated with me and confused. And, and, and certainly uncertain, she was still there in willing to, like, give it a shot, you know, because I, at that point, really, I really put the cards on the table, I really, I shot my shot, I really went for it. I, I tried to change my behavior in my line of thinking. And, and we tried, you know, and if there was something there, if this relationship was ready to give it a shot, he would, he would show up.

He would respond, because we've all, you know, like, you didn't do anything that's so unforgivable. Sometimes we're all confused.

You know, clearly he's doing the same thing now. So it's like this idea that he can't get over, you know, a little bit of back and forth.

Because what you guys always had, even in your back and forthness, in your uncertainty, is you always had that chemistry, when you guys would reconnect, there was always that, this is why I like you feeling.

“Yeah, and that's maybe something you can remember when you're in your head is like, how do I feel when I see this person?”

I remember analyzing what the feeling is, but you know, you felt different, that's for sure, you felt something, you know, and then you just have to stop over analyzing that and just be like, this is definitely different than some of the other guys and maybe that should be good enough. Yeah, this is good. You'll probably hear from him at some point. Thanks, sir. I mean, it's sort of him having met his person. And he's really just in this relationship and it's, you know, he's in the honeymoon phase and they're, they're fantasizing about life together and things like that and it works out and you find out he's been dating someone in a few months, you know, like if it's his person, maybe not, you know, because that and should be his priority to protect our relationship.

You know, you might cross paths and it'll be this kind of awkward like, you know, but if he, if he hasn't met someone or he met someone and it just doesn't work out. Yeah, you will. You will definitely hear from him when I don't know what that will be like. I don't know. I'm not holding on to it. I'm not even, I'm not holding on to him in a response from this letter.

“I think what's interesting is like there will be some sort of cross paths at some point just given our our friends. And there will be I'm shocked this hasn't happened yet, but like there will be a time when he sees my best friend.”

And we will get some sort of information because she's very. You have to let go of that.

You don't need any more information.

You're not information hunting. You don't need a stop plane detective call off the dog so to speak, you know, you stop commiserating with this mutual friend. You got you you have to let that go. Yeah. And next time you talk to that friend and she brings it up, you just politely be like, you know what, let we need to stop.

Yeah. She doesn't ring up on her. She is she's my my best best best best. Well, I mean, I've I've deleted locations. I've, you know, muted on Instagram. I've done and we'll stop. Stop dating him in your head. Yeah, that person next.

Yeah.

And then, you know, just stop second guessing yourself like you're, you know, and you're it's.

The your person's out there. You got you really have to say positive you and it's so annoying. But you really have to just trust that this is part of the journey and just know that at some point you will look back on all of this in left and you will be grateful that you experienced it. It's so weird to like say, oh, you know, would you do life over again? You know, if you if you woke up in your 21, of course, we would make a bunch of different choices.

But like, I don't know like I'm glad I don't I wouldn't do life over because like at so much everything it's all a part of the journey. It really is and it's all part of Learning and experiencing things and again, I'm so grateful of all of my exes and all my bad experiences that of my pain and heartbreak because that is the surviving those is really Makes us who we are. It's just important to survive those and it's important to allow ourselves to move forward and not roommate and not question things and and that's the part where we we don't learn lessons when we constantly refuse

To like accept the clarity that we have by convincing ourselves we don't have the clarity we need.

“So you have everything you need to move forward.”

So start moving forward. Yeah, and I think the biggest takeaway from talking to you too is just giving things a try. I mean, I think that a lot of my overthinking comes from feeling like I'm running out of time right and just wanting the answer now. And so just and that's what I, yeah, and that's what I am learning. I regret from this one is not trying so just going forward. And it's something feels good. Yeah, there's just going to be your ex, you know, the way the way we treat boyfriend and girlfriend like a

Like a wedding ceremony these days is crazy. It's not I feel like it's not that I don't care. It's the like, okay, we're now in 32 and now I'm 35 and now you know that's but yeah, yeah, but that's why we have to just be present as much as possible and really go for it and be in the moment because Worrying about how old we're going to be someday if things don't go, it's just a giant waste of our time. Yeah, it's true. All right. Well, hopefully this is helpful. Hopefully this is helpful. It was very helpful.

All right. Well, keep us posted. I would love to know. I will definitely, you know, how you're dealing in three or four months. And I would be, whether he reaches out back or not. And if he does, certainly reach out.

“Oh, though, my send an update. Well, thank you. I congrats to you, Natalie. I have been listening since I don't remember who you first had as your first career.”

Like, other producers was like, show her something. Show again. I'm a show with my mom. Shex still in life. I know that is. Okay. Yes. So, yeah. So, I'm going to share a show. Shex is like a part-time nanny for us for a river.

Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. All right. Take care. Great meeting you. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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I'm a coworker. Is this like, are we gotten to a fair level or is this like, no, no, no, no. Okay, so what give me give me the story or the background.

So my husband and I have been together 10 years married for five and he's worked with this woman. I would say like eight of those years. And for a long time she had a long time partner and I think maybe like a couple years three years ago. They split up and it was it's hard for me not to see things and just like a different view and like a woman and and. There's been some just like strange moments over the years that have caused us to fight over like, you know, I'm like this is weird. Like for example, it wasn't this last summer, but the year before we got new phones and so I was like in our phone.

“Plan looking like, how much you should because it got and I noticed that he was having like so many phone calls and I was like, well, we don't talk on the phone like what this is weird.”

And I looked at them and they're all from a number that it's from a random state that I'm like, this is this friend and so he's calling.

This person every morning on his drive to work works with them for what is, what is working relationship. They are both she's technically a supervisor at the end of the day, but they're pretty almost close in level and they run a program together. So they're constantly collaborating and things like that. So it makes sense from a work standpoint that they do talk a lot. Sure. I mean, yeah, but I mean, out of hours out of office hours, I would have to think that they were talking about work.

I mean, I don't I mean, I don't depends. I mean, every there's so many different jobs. I mean, you know, like I don't, I don't even know what normal working hours are for me, you know, for, you know, it's like. Yeah, it should happens and I got to deal with it sometimes, but I don't know if that's the case with your husband, you know. I knew they were in that they've already been close friends since then and so, and it's already been a topic of discussion. And so yeah, me seeing that he was calling her so often. I was like, I thought he was treating on me and I, you know, I called him out that night.

And it was very like he was like, oh shit, like in a way of like I didn't know I was doing something wrong. She's going through a hard time and it's like, I mean, so yeah. Yeah. He's not a therapist. Yeah.

And what did you say?

“And he literally was like, it's like our own podcast, I call her and I say, what's going on today? Like, that's how he.”

Yeah, it says it's crazy. It's crazy. That's inappropriate. Yeah, so if it's like, yeah, like, you know, as soon as I start my day, we're talking about the project and the plan and how we execute and work is work and they might have to talk on the phone and a lot. That's one thing. But him acknowledging that like they're, they're just friends who like confide in each other and she's opened up to him about the divorce or the breakup. It's like, yo, you know, like, you got to, he's got to what, like, it's, you know, you're not like, are you guys of kids?

Yeah, yeah, we have a three year old and I'm pregnant right now.

Um, yeah, that's fucking crazy.

Um, did you say as much with that confidence?

“Oh, that, like, what the fuck are you doing? And like, I mean, so why, why has he, why is this still?”

It sounds like he's not, he's not. Yeah, so I think where we are, where we are, like, you know, that was like a big. That's probably the biggest thing that was like, you know, he did, you know, he's like, I'm like, this is what I need. Like, you can't do that. You know, like, that's, that's a boundary. Like, that's crazy. And a lot of the times when we have these things, he, we just like push it on the rug. I'm guilty of it as well.

But like, it's like, we fight about it. It's like, why are you fighting about it? Because he, yeah, like, he can't see my perspective of because he's so strong, well, like, I'm not doing anything wrong.

That's not true. He, on you basically, that's exactly like his thing of being wrong is that he has cheated on me physically with her.

There's, there's, there's, first of all, we don't even have to call it cheating. There's other ways people can, can cheat or feel. You, you are feeling what you feel and maybe this could help you articulate your husband either way. This is like, it's not your, you know, but it is hurting our connection. You said, we don't talk on the phone like that.

“So here's this other woman that he is making connections with and doing something he doesn't even do with his own wife,”

which is like, talk on the phone and like share stories in bond. I bet you would love some version of that sometime, you know, just the excitement of like, imagine he gets down with his day and the first thing he does is call you on his way home to like talk about the day. He can, he literally is doing that with another woman. I mean, there, I would argue that a lot of women listening to this show.

But like, fuck, man, if I could get that from her husband, he could go fuck whoever he wants. I'm kidding, but like, you know, like that, that is a meaningful connection that as people we desire, especially, you know, married couples. So for him to pretend and play dumb that he's not doing anything wrong. And, and then, and then double down by arguing with you to preserve this connection he has with this other woman is crazy on top of the fact that you're pregnant.

So yeah, and so I would say like things haven't changed in a year in that regards. And so he still talks to her on a regular basis. Not on the phone. No, no, no, nothing like that.

But he works with the woman and there's always like, oh, like going out to drinks.

You know, and I don't, a lot of times it's not one on one, but even just like, because over the years it's just like her seeing her name on his phone like the text pop up. It's like, and like, you know, just like you said, like, yeah. That she texts him about non work related things both both. So it's hard to tell. So it's like sometimes it's your name.

I'm like, oh, she's texting you. And he's like, well, it was a question about work. And it's like, so it's like, then I'm the one feeling like crazy. Because I was like, is it a question about work? No, it's not because they're friends and he see claims or he claims he's very open about how their friends.

I mean, you know, like, that's like, I, when I was single, I had a lot of girlfriends. We didn't hook up. We weren't, you know, it's like we weren't. But like, those friendships, even though we weren't hooking up and we were just platonic friends aren't appropriate for me to have today. Now that I have, they weren't even appropriate when it was just my girlfriend.

You know, I would have dinner with these women. I would go to movies with them. I would hang out with their house at 2 o'clock in the morning and just like talk about whatever. And we would bond and we, we had connections, you know, they were friendship connections. But they were, they were certainly more than work connections.

“And then I chose to be in a relationship and wanting that relationship that turned into me getting married and starting a family with someone to be like the most important relationship in my life.”

And, and knowing that, you know, for all of us who talk about wanting to find our person, our one and have a relationship that lasts over time. And again, like relationships are hard enough and no one's perfect and we all make mistakes and yada yada yada. But like, he is arguing with you about energy he is putting into this friendship. And justifying it because like, well, we're only just friends. It's some friendships and a marriage are inappropriate.

And it, like, even if it was a guy, you know, if, if your husband had a male friend, you know, and the summing your husband's straight and things like that. And, but, but that friend required him to talk on the phone with them constantly and play video games and go golfing and go hunting to the point where you felt like your husband had a stronger bond and connection. With this male friend, that would also be inappropriate.

Like, I know sometimes we just say that shit, but it's supposed to be true.

It's supposed to be true because that person isn't just the person we're like having a family with and making love with and having starting kids with. Is the person that, like, we talk about our problems too. We share our insecurities about. We bond with, you know, and, yeah, life gets us down and sometimes, like, you know, but, like, we have to put that energy in those connections and relationships that we want to be strongest. Otherwise, we grow apart.

We feel distant, you know, are the people we live with and when we're married to for years, feel like strangers, roommates. That's, that's how that shit happens. So, your husband is going down a path. That quite frankly, if it doesn't stop or he doesn't, like, realize what he's doing and change how he's investing in energy. You know, like, it's, it's not gonna end well. Yeah, and it came to, that's really the conversation in January we ended up having, like,

“I think being pregnant, I'm eight months pregnant, so it's been a while and around four or five months.”

Like, you know, you're not, we, you know, we like to trick together, we like to go out. We like to do these things and then that stops and being pregnant is also just, like, a mental mind game. And so it's just like, I'm quite, like, questioning, I'm like, I'm boring. I'm this, I'm this and my husband wants to go out with these people and, and so it all came to, like, this kind of moment in January where I'm just, like, kind of really pleading with him of, like, like, like, this is how I feel and whether you're doing something wrong or not in your eyes.

Like, it's like triggering me to, like, feel like we are, like, at this rate, we're going to get divorced. Like, that's, you know, I said these words to him, like, I, like, I can't keep going on like this. I'm feel so, like, like you said, like, I feel so disconnected from you. Even when we're alone and you're just, like, after having some drinks out in your home and you're still drinking. And I'm not drinking and I'm in bed because I'm tired.

And so it's just like, we were in this terrible spot. And I felt like we, so I feel like we've made progress in the way, like, he agrees that it's, like, a weird thing.

Like, he, he's finally set, like, I see your point of view that have me having a close friend that's a woman is, he says, like, taboo or it's, it's just not normal.

It's so he's, like, agreed with me on that, like, like, it's wrong. It's wrong. He refuses to change to make me feel better. And so, and I feel, I mean, that's, yeah. I mean, like, you said that I'm in this most vulnerable state right now.

Like, I'm, like, I, and I'm like, I don't know how to explain it to you differently. Like, I, can you, even if, like,

“I mean, that's, you shouldn't have, you should, like, I'm sorry you're going through this.”

And the fact that you're eight months pregnant, I really, and I'm not trying to, like, should I, your husband here, but like, it's, yeah, it's not. He's really great. I just, I mean, you know, I'm sure he's, I'm sure he's fine. He's definitely not really great.

And if you show him this episode, I'm sorry, dude. But like, you know, listen, like, when, when, when a, when a married couple's, you know, obviously as, you're the one having the baby, you, you are dealing with so much. But if we want to give your husband and all the boys out there a little bit of grace, and I think, you know, it's a challenge for anyone, you know, both parties in a couple,

that when you're pregnant, there's, you know, things change, things can get difficult. You know, sometimes you, you know, you might acknowledge you might get emotional, and sometimes the emotional, those emotions might be confusing to him or might feel unfair or whatever. But like, that's, that's, that's part of the gig, man. That's what we signed up for, right?

Part of it of, of working through that is to say, you know, in the next nine months, not everyone in thing might make sense, and, you know,

I, I might, my wife might ask me something that she never asked me before,

“or doesn't even feel like normal, but you know what?”

It's right now, it's my job to show up for her, not ask questions. It's my job to make sure that she's relaxed and calm and not stressed or not anxious. It's certainly my job to not bring any unnecessary stress and anxiety into her life. You know, that's, that's bare minimum, right? Right? The fact that, you know, and take away you being pregnant right now,

the fact that like he has been investing a great deal of energy, not only putting time into this friendship, but he is also putting an energy to fight for the right to have that friendship. Um, is this a kind of a fuck you to you? And, you know, taboo, like he is trying to, like, talk his way around doing something,

it's just, like, like, like, I said, I'm careful, it's just inappropriate. Like, unless you two are kind of couple who, like, mutually agrees to have these types of friendships in your lives and have some kind of, like, open relationship.

a marriage doesn't work over the, you know, in the long run,

“if, if you don't decide to show up and make that relationship your number on priority,”

it just doesn't. And he can say whatever he wants, but he's clearly not making it his number one priority. There are days where he makes this other woman more of a priority than you. You feel that constantly, and the fact that you feel that should be, you know, and the fact that there is any part of him that would be, would feel weird to tell her.

That means that he is more worried about her feelings than yours, because it should be so easy for him to say,

listen, or it would be, first of all, it would be so easy for you to just distance himself from her.

He doesn't even need to explain shit to her. He doesn't need to, like, get coffee and say, hey, we can't do this anymore. I mean, if he has to do that, if he has to do that, then, like, what the fuck is this relationship, you know? So it should be so easy to just start to stop taking her calls after hours,

just stop responding, you know, like, to just, oh, oh, I'm sorry. I was with my wife and kid. Like, he doesn't need an explanation. He could just not respond. He could just not be available. He could just, like, there is no woman in this world outside of my wife right now, who has any expectations of me to show up for them in any meaningful way.

My employees, some of them which are women, yeah. I mean, I guess I have some responsibility to there to get back to them and things like that.

But short of that, there is not a single woman in this world who, like,

is expecting me to call them back outside of a working, you know, and again, like, if it was just work, fine. You know, work is work and, you know, men work with women. You know, that should be totally fine. But clearly, this is going beyond that.

And he's not even denying that. You know, he's just, he's justifying by saying, while I'm doing wrong, I'm not fucking her. She's just my friend. It's like, okay, well, I don't, I don't care what their gender is. Like, this is a friend that clearly you are prioritizing too much

and you are depirurizing our relationship at a time where I just need you to show up for me. I just, yeah, I do. I do need you to do more.

Like, I'm literally growing a person in my body.

I am like making all these sacrifices. I don't even get to choose all these. I just, I have the fact that, like, I guess, yeah, I'm the woman in this relationship. So I'm guess I'm, I have, I'm the one having the kid. And he, like, he needs to do his part, which means at times do what he can.

Even if it doesn't, like, you know, I imagine it doesn't feel fair when your body, you know, if a pain shows up or on motion shows up, it is responding you being pregnant. I bet that doesn't feel fair or normal or whatever. Like, this is not about fairness.

So yeah, he needs the, he needs the man up and he needs to take care of his family and take care of his wife more than he's doing. And you shouldn't feel like you in any way have to apologize or feel weird about it. And, and the fact that he's even arguing with you is crazy. Yeah, and I guess that's where we're like stuck at this point.

“It's like, I think, you know, we've come a long way of like being able to talk about it”

and not in, like, a toxic way. Like, I'm like, let's hear each other out. I mean, honestly, the fact that you're-- That's about her, it's like about, you know, just the general, like, is it? Like, being there for me and even not going, you know, out.

But it's like, we are still, like, oh, it's, I either feel like I'm saying no. And he's at home resenting me and like, be, you know. And then I'm dealing with that. And so like, do I just suck it up and say, if that's going to make me feel more comfortable than letting him go out to like, happy hour drinks and, you know,

and he did stop drinking the last two months because of a lot of the stuff. And like, that has felt supportive and I've tried to be like, you know, I really appreciate it. That's like a way that you are like, showing me and committing that, like, you know. But it's still like, oh, I still want to go to this show or whatever. I'm not drinking though.

It's like, okay, cool. But like, I'm, yeah, like, I feel like I'm sacrificing so much.

“I mean, I mean, I'm still not getting it and I don't know how, like, it's like, how else can I get you to consider me more?”

Like, I want to, him to wake up and be like, oh, maybe my wife, like, wouldn't appreciate that. I'm not going to ask her if I can go and put her in that position to say no. I have to, or I let him go and then I'm at home anxious and upset. Yeah, I mean, it's like stuck there. I guess my, you know, I don't have an answer that's going to make you feel better.

And the, in the short run. Other than the fact that, like, I just, I just validate your feelings that you're not crazy or wrong to feel the way you do. And I just think in the long run, you're better off trusting your instincts and feelings and standing your ground for what you know is right.

Because at the end of the day, you're right.

Like, if your husband doesn't make different choices or chooses to prioritize this relationship in a more meaningful way. It has an expiration date. I don't know when that is, but it'll happen. Because, yeah, if your, if your two choices are to feel alone or anxious, like, how long are you going to be able to do that, right? And if he's going to constantly feel like a victim, because it's too much for him to, like,

“Yeah, listen, and it's not saying, like, every time your wife's pregnant, you have to, like, give up your entire life for nine months.”

I got to go play, you know, you know, I got to, you know, I get to go out with, you know, like, everyone's in a while. I'll be like, hey, I'm going to go watch this thing, you know, for an hour, I won't be with my wife, you know, I will alone time, whatever, but that's once in a while. And at any point, when my wife's like, I need you right now, I'm there, you know, and I'm happy to be there. Because like, she needs me, and I, you know, I guess selfishly, I like being needed.

But like, yeah, it's he's, he is definitely prioritizing his own feelings over yours.

And this desire to, like, have, like, you know, crazy is that he gets to, like, have fun. And I don't mean, like, he shouldn't be able to have fun. I'm just saying to, like, he is still chasing a little bit of the single life. Well, his wife is 8 months pregnant. It's like, bro.

Yeah, and he's, he shared those feelings of, like, like, almost like this, like, crisis, like, identity crisis of, like, I don't want to be just a dad. I don't want this to be, like, our whole life. And I'm like, yeah, me neither. But look at me, like, I'm, like, I'm, you know, I mean, what else do we, I love being a mom, but we have other hobbies.

And it's like, but you're choosing right now. What does he want to, a bro? I mean, sure, what does he, I mean, does he, he wants to be a mom? Yeah, he wants to be a mom. I want to have all these interests. And I want, like, it's not like he's investing his time to, like,

I don't know, invent something or do something. Is he really going to look back and his life 20 years from now?

“And remember, the times at the bar with the bros or, like, the coworker who, like, was an outlet from his, like, family?”

Yeah, I doubt it, you know, if he, by all means, if he wants to do more with his life and do, be more than a dad, I think what one he's selling fatherhood a little short, but sure. But like, I don't think his time is going into something he's going to look back and be, like, I did that shit. Yeah, and I just feel like, especially in this, like, moment we're in, like, okay, we're about to have this newborn, like, I get it. But, like, yes, for the, it's temporary. Like, this is going to be, like, a hard time.

And we're going to grow our family and have to figure all that shit out. And eventually we're going to be doing, we're going to have hobbies. And we're, you know, like, that stuff happens, but you're not even asking him not to have hobbies. Yeah, you're not even, you know, it's, you're asking him to not be selfish. Like, yeah, yeah, and it's hard for me to be selfish.

And, and I've really, like, pushed, like, I'm like, I deserve to do something. There's nothing selfish about giving your body to raise a life. Yeah. There's nothing selfish about you being pregnant. You have the right to want to, like, treat yourself or do things for yourself.

I don't, you know, it's, it's, it's hardly selfish. Everything about what you're doing is so selfless. And the fact, you know, it's like, you know. But, yeah, I mean, I'm glad I'm, like, validated because there are times, you know, like everything else is, like, great. And he, you know, and it's, it's funny because I'm, like, the physical versus emotional.

It's like, the emotional to me is, like, worse, like, your connection with someone else. If I'm here, like, yeah, we get, we have sex. It is great. And we have a great life and all the stuff. But then if I still feel like you're like, oh, I wish I could be doing this with this girl.

“And we're, oh, something reminds you of her and you need to text her about it.”

Like, that's so weird to me. And that's, like, I shouldn't have inside jokes. They shouldn't have, yeah. Yeah, it's just, yeah. So I'm, I'm, I'm glad I'm validated because I just, or it's nice to hear. Because I just, like, yeah, some days, I'm like, I just need to come down.

I don't need to, like, get over it. But you definitely don't need to get over it. I, I hope you can remain calm because that's obviously better for your health. Like, you don't, you definitely don't need to get over this. And if anything, you shouldn't, I don't think you should waste any art and energy

arguing with him. And he is trying to normalize something that shouldn't be normal. Like, it's just inappropriate for you to have any meaningful friendship with a woman. And a marriage for the kid. And even his guy friendships, like, you know, have friends.

But he needs to make sure his connection with you is always strong.

Right now, he is prioritizing connections outside of this marriage a little too much.

And a way that, you know, makes you feel like you have a part, you're, you're doing this alone. And I'm sure you feel like on some level.

And, you know, I don't know if you're never going to, if you're going to show this episode.

But like, you know, that's going to embarrass him someday. You know, right now, it will. Like, you know, someday he will be, he'll have the guts to think about his some of his actions.

“When he, when he's outside of his own selfish needs, we do this all the time, right?”

Like, you know, we should all be embarrassed by some things we didn't enter didn't do. But, you know, you know, it might be 20 years from now. It might be, you know, for all the, I'm not saying he's a deadbeat that or anything like that. But there are deadbeat dads out there. And there are a lot of kids who grow up to realize that, you know, one of their parents or their dads

just like, didn't show up the way maybe some other people did. And, you know, it's embarrassing. And they all feel it. They just, you know, it's always like, you know.

So, you know, I hope that he gets out of his,

his head, man, and wants to show up. Because, yeah, it sounds like overall you have a good thing. And, you know, it's like there's a lot of positive in your relationship. But I ask you about couples therapy and we got sidetracked. Are you guys in society?

Yeah. You know, it's been mentioned in the last month. So, I mean, they get this route. So, best bet. It's, you know, scary to think about that.

Why is it scary? Hit people. I don't know. I think it's just more of like my mental head. It had space that I'm in right now where it feels very nice.

Like every, every couple needs help. Yeah. Every, every couple, like even the healthiest of couples.

Sometimes need a third party to mediate.

You know, I'm sure, and you know, I've been hard on your husband. I'm sure there are emotions. He is feeling in feelings that are valid and he's not sure how to communicate and process them. And a good couple's therapist would just help you guys get on the same page. I'm sure some of his feelings are valid on some level.

How he is going about processing those feelings or trying to, you know, is making his wife feel a certain way. And at a minimum, I imagine that deep down that that does bother your husband. I imagine if he listened to this call, he would get very defensive because he doesn't want it. You know, but like, he should, you know, he should get defensive because that deep down he knows the truth. You know, that he has centered his feelings above yours.

“In a moment where, like, honestly, any time a guy like makes his feelings more important than his wife's when she's pregnant, he's going to have a dick.”

Thank you for your time. You know, and it's not to say that his feelings don't matter. But he is treating a friendship with a woman at work as something that is he needs. And I don't like, you know, like, like, like, it's his equal to like, you needing rest. Yeah, I mean, it's just, yeah, I feel like everyone else thinks it's so crazy.

But it's like, it's like, except him. And it's like, I want to go talk to this, the coworker myself, just like, do you, do you see, like, do you get it? Yeah, that's beneath you. You know, like, like, I know, I know, but that's, you know, but, but don't let couples therapy. It's not a sign.

It's not a, no, couples therapy. We're willing to step closer to divorce. No, yeah. It's like, the healthiest relationships could benefit from it. It's treated like a bicycle helmet, not reconstructive surgery.

Like right now, you can't find the words to, to get through to your husband. You know, he needs to hear it from someone else.

“Um, and I don't, and one thing, I think, you know, without making, like, threats.”

I do think, like, if anything else to say, like, I don't know what to tell you. But if, if this doesn't get better, we, like, we will become a statistic. We will be a cliche. We'll be a broken family. You are comparing your need to go out and have drinks and hang out with friends.

Some of which are, and making connections and having, you know, a friendship connections with women over, like, you know, showing up for your wife and kids. And I, you know, I didn't sign up for that. And I don't know how long I can do this. So if you don't want this, just, you know, let me know now.

But if you do, then I, we need to make changes. I don't know. That's, that's helpful. I don't know. I'm sorry you're going through this. I think you're right.

I think you're right. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Well, keep us posted.

Let me know how it goes. But are you going to, are you going to show this episode?

I don't know. You, I, I want to.

Me, he would, he would get very, very.

“Like you said embarrassed because you, you should be embarrassed.”

Yeah. Listen, I, I definitely, like, you know, let's not try to well masculine the guy.

But, um, more than anything,

I just want you to not feel crazy for your, your feelings are incredibly valid.

“And I think you should waste less energy trying to explain yourself to convince him.”

I think you just be like, this, this is crazy. I shouldn't have to explain to you why this is fucked up.

And it has nothing to do with the fact that you're not,

you, it's like you want to pet on the bat for not fucking or like, that's, I didn't sign up for you.

“I didn't get married and have kids and choose to like,”

build a family with a guy who wants to act single. And in a lot of ways. And like, I didn't sign up for that. I didn't sign up for you to like, bond with another woman. Yeah, exactly.

So, all right. Have a good day. Thank you. Sorry. Sorry, thanks for this.

Thank you. Thank you. Take care. Bye. Bye.

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