E1101 - Taylor and Dakota w/ Therapy Jeff, Jessi & Chase Drama, Is West/Amanda True? Why Bach Might Not Air

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You on the mic as well. You hear a little bit. I'm here a little bit. She's around. How's everyone doing? Do you guys have a great weekend? Yeah, I went to the beach. Oh hell yeah, I know. I haven't been since last year. Nice Los Angeles living. Okay, chill. Was it was like a good beach day? Did you get in the ocean? Did you feel reborn? I passed out. Like I at one point was literally like was I drugged? I just got super sleepy and was face down and like doesn't it sound in on my town? Okay, and there's lots of pictures of like everyone having fun and I'm just like laying in the background but I love a beach nap and I just can't help it

But it was like it was great. I love going. I just I don't know. It's what's the month is it? It's not quite not quite April, but I'm in at the beach in March You know, like beautiful spring. Great of a baby. Yeah, I had a great weekend. I don't know. Did you have a great weekend? I had a great weekend You know, and it's just like perfect weather and like everything, you know, you're eating like good food and You're just cooking up a storm. Nick was cooking up a storm and river was just making me on Saturday. I made some braised beef short ribs

And we made some tacos with that savory meat. That was delicious. Yeah, it was eight in the back yard, you know It made some smash burgers and then the favorite. You know how I don't know about you like we live by grocery stores So like we don't like grocery shop for like a week where we're pretty busy lives, you know So well grocery shop for like a couple meals here there, you know, and then sometimes you're like Yeah, I don't feel like grocery shopping. You have like random items, but you don't have like a full meal. Yeah, you know

Totally so like last night where like what do you want to do and I'm like I went grocery shopping another day And I brought like I bought like a random steak because, you know, sir alone was on sale. You know, so I got because I had a piece of steak I randomly decided to buy a block of aged cheddar cheese. I had that. Wow, okay. We had some sour dough Now we had like we but we usually would steak. I would cook like a vegetable, you know like a like a Brussels sprout Or an asparagus, but we didn't have that. So I prep the steak the same old gorgeous beautiful tasty steak

And then we had the sour dough and I made the most delicious steak sandwich. I've ever had a Wow, it's like the aged cheddar with the aged cheddar and like grilled it on the griddle, you know like buttered the bread, you know

“Very like grilled cheese on a ask. He did not make me want. So I didn't get one, but what?”

Yeah, he didn't want to be a bite. He did the sweet potato Crazy. I thought he was like God. It's so good. It's so good. I shouldn't. I want to take some from him. I'll just wait till he he's like getting river a couple bites. I'm like, oh, he's

He'll be like, hey, this is so good. You got to try. Never did. So I was like, you know what? I'll let him have his sandwich.

He just knew he knew you you got three people who wanted that steak. He's like here. You need your protein. Here's the leftover steak from my steak sandwich. You can chew on for your all that protein. I mean

like a birthday party forever for her second birthday. And so I was going to do this whole like

“tea for two or something like that. That was like going to be the whatever. So I'd ordered all this”

like Amazon decor and stuff and I ordered this bounce house and it ended up being like a little bit bigger than I thought it was. And so it's a beautiful day on Sunday. It's a full bounce house. It was a beautiful day on Sunday. I'm like, we should blow up the bounce house. And it's like, oh, Jesus Christ. So we blow it up. She's literally, she's in heaven. I text the next door neighbors who's got a four year old and a two year old little girl. And I send her a picture and

I'm like, if y'all want to join, she's like, be over in 10 minutes. And the whole time river's like, my friends are here. My friends are here. And she's just like, she's like bouncing with

girls in a bounce house house. Now and I currently having a battle of rivers development. Natalie,

you know, being the mother figure, pregnant with twins, she's struggling with the, um, savoring these moments with river. You know, like she doesn't want to lose her baby, which is

“understandable. I think a lot of parents, especially mothers, relate. Me being the dad figure,”

I'm just like thinking, hey, if you're going to do it, do it right. So any type of like progress, I'm like rooting for and rivers like speaking more and more. She has these, she's rivers already a horse girl, full on horse girl, obsessed with horses. And we, we have horses in the family. So she's just, she's locked in. She's a horse girl. I don't know what that means. I think it means a lot. I don't know. But she's, I think horse girls got a bad rap. And now they're like getting their, they're having

their reborn rejuvenation. Yeah, horses are even claiming horse girls are being reclaimed. She's so Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus. I mean, are two horse girls that are just so. Thank you. She has a toy horse. Uh, she, it's peanut and it's named peanut. The horses name is peanut. All of her horses are named after the horses at my sister's house that she's like that in touch. The way that she would say peanut is Pia. That's just how she said it. She'd say for breakfast, she would want

a waffle with Pia. And that was a waffle with peanut butter on. And like, that is okay. I'm peanut was Pia. Yeah, a banana with with Pia. And then the other night, I'm putting her to bed. I'm, I'm reading her the book. She wants me to grab peanut her toy horse. She goes Pia. And then she goes peanut and she corrected herself. Wow. Wow. And I was like, dope. And I'm like, hell, yeah, peanut. So now she like, well, I like, if she says, she goes back and forth. Now, and now he is like,

don't correct her. Like, she has her the rest of her life to say peanut, right? Like, this is what we're so cute is like being able to be like, oh, and this, like, I have this running list of the things that she says and how she says them. And like her calling a drink and icy cold. Like, one day she's going to be like, dad, can you give me the water bottle? Boring. Now, we're going to keep icy cold. We're going to keep icy cold. We're going to do a video diary, like annually. And

like, bring something into frame and be like, what is this called? Pia. And then like every year, ask her these cute, like nuances and see how she changes. And ask her questions, like, what's her favorite

“thing to do? Like, it's a real place to go. Yes, you should do that. You guys have all the equipment.”

We really do. We consider that. That would be so cute. Well, we do have a jam packed episode for you. There is so many topics for us to unpack. It does feel like the reality TV world is on fire, which is just so much drama. Obviously, we have so much to still cover and unpacked as it relates to the batch rat, Taylor Frankie Paul. We have a really great guest and excited to bring him on therapy Jeff Jeff is a licensed therapist and he has a lot of great content talking about, obviously,

you know, therapy and just kind of giving clinical definitions of these themes. That a lot of people are discussing. Obviously, when we get into the Taylor Frankie Paul and the code of it all, there's a lot, you know, a lot of nuance. Obviously, there's a lot of interest. What's going on? I'm hearing more and more things from the people I know about the potential future of the batch rat. Will it come back? Will it not the future of Mormon wives? Lots of unpack. We obviously have the

summer house drama. Is it real? Is it not? If you don't know what we're talking about. A lot of allegations on the street between Amanda and West potentially, looking up. Now, we have cast members chiming in and we'll certainly dive into that. We also, pretty excited. Their age of attraction

reunion does finally premiere tomorrow at 7 p.m. Eastern on YouTube 4 p.m. Pacific for all

you people who are anxiously attached as we find out in a reunion that one cast member is. And want to hear the audio version that will drop as usual. So super excited for everyone to check that out. We'll also want to dive a little bit into the finale of age of attraction before we get to Jeff and then after that, and then we have Andy Cohen's feuding with Sarah Michelle Geller. She kind of has gone out there and talking about maybe she's just not quite enjoying.

is taking a little offense to that, which I see both sides. The truth is when it happens to you,

“you know, it just hits different. It's so fascinating when you're in the vault in the drama”

versus a being a spectator. So we'll talk about that. And then we have Alex Bonafire. If you aren't watching a company retreat, we all heard of jury duty. Company retreat is their season two. It's just as good of the first season. We have Alex who plays Dougie on company retreat. I was so, this isn't amazing. He was so funny. We left so hard. It's a, we have so much fun talking Alex. You're not going to want to miss this. If you if you watch jury duty, if you're watching

company retreat, just like how they make this show is so fascinating for anyone who isn't familiar with it. It's all a bunch of actors, mostly improv actors. And they have one person, the civilian, who has no idea what's going on. And they immerse this person into a world and create this entire TV show with these kind of outrageous things happening. I'm a tough laugh. And this show just really, it's such a feel good show. Anyways, we have Alex with us. It's a great interview. All of that

and so much more this episode. Don't forget the Voff House plus is now at free along with some

amazing content that you get to listen to. All our deep dives, where we really dive deep into all

your favorite reality TV topics. Like obviously the bachelor, the Mormon wives, the summer house drama will begin into the weeds this week with all of that drama unpacking even deeper conversations. We have our pop extra, we get our round up of all your favorite pop culture topics. We didn't have time for during reality recap. Plus your update specials, all your favorite updates from your favorite ass Nick calls and more be sure to sign up. Go to vithiles.com. You will be glad that you did.

Well, in just in case you guys live under a rock and somehow haven't seen the age of attraction trailer, which is like what you're doing. But here it is. Welcome to the age of attraction season one reunion. How many couples are still together? Raise your hands. Looks like fifers not here. Does anyone know where she is?

“I don't really feel comfortable like air in the south. All right. Well, that's why we're here.”

John, is there anything you would like to clear up in this moment? What was it about? John, speak with you. You took that from me. I mean, we have gone through a lot of shit. I don't want to hide it. If you think he was there to find love, go ahead and raise your hands. Ooh. You guys are, in fact, engaged. I don't deserve to date someone who texts me. I feel disgusting with you. You know, it's not easy.

Libby, how'd you feel? Yeah, I expect to get emotional. I'm hoping that people can see this and feel like this is okay. Do you feel like you both been able to really show up and be a team in those difficult moments? In my mind, you were literally like my husband. Like, there is nothing else. I cried so hard. An area that I've been weak. She's able to help me get through. It has anyone had an issue with your age difference? I almost didn't come out this week to LA.

You're like gaslighting, I'm not gaslighting anyone Theresa. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. I was really really sad watching that bad. It was.

“Guys, I'm just, I'm just here words, man. I'm just really sad. You hear what I'm saying?”

And I'll speak for you. I never said that. Four days in, I wanted to go home.

Tell him how it is now. Why you laughing there? That wasn't at all. Well, shit. Like, that's something that I'll probably need to know. You don't want to say anything? I don't know. No. You honestly didn't like Leo. I'm going to defend my woman or any woman in my life. Here he is. Have you met his daughters? I have not. Why? Why not? And he was yelling from afar at y'all to start? No.

Absolutely. How come I love you here? And you want to air all of our dirty laundry? Let's do it. Is there a chance you guys to get back together? It's giving kind of a telemundo. Kind of drama. Tele novella? Tele novella? Yeah. Anyway, it's a fantastic ringing unit if I do say so myself.

The couples that left the age of attraction show together were Tristan John. Just for a reminder, we had Derek and Fyfer. Leah and Chris broke up. We have Libby and Andrew and Logan and Vanessa. So you'll definitely get aware of they now and Jorge and Venau. So we get into all those couples. We get into all the drama that happened on the show. But mostly it's a lot of like where are they now? What's happened between the time we stop filming

to today? Lots of unpack, lots get into all the drama you're going to want and more. The conversations between Chris and Leah are wild. John and Trisa you are going to want to see that conversation. It is definitely riveting super excited for you all to see it. It is on YouTube. I know a lot of people are confused. It's not on Netflix. But we are very grateful for the Netflix family to allow us to host this ringing in and hopefully it's going to be

exactly what you want in and reunion. Nothing lasts and very, very excited for you guys to all see it. Susie, I'm curious. Who are you most interested in getting updates from and why?

in person hits different. You guys. I really don't know spoilers because I like to respect

people's privacy. So I didn't ask two personal questions. But I thought Jorge was hysterical. And just from the trailer, I'm like, oh, I just know they're about to get into it. Derek,

“QDP. Hot. Hot. Great. I think the world wants to know. Is he saying, oh, are they together?”

Because, uh, tune in to find out. Yeah. tune in. Because in person, the vibes are high. You guys, very charismatic. Yeah, give me two drinks and I'll ask for a selfie. You know, he seems kind. Yes, he does seem kind. Yeah. He seems very kind. Yeah. Jorge and I kind of ad be clocked me. Oh, he, it was you. He was talking about where you want to patch at some point. He was very upset by Mary's com. Mary, the ladies. He didn't think he was like upset. Yeah. The lady's side and the

great, what happened on the streets of Vancouver debate, which we really get into with Jorge and

Vanel at the reunion. Yeah, I can't wait. But he clubbed some receipts for me. I was like, Justin said, you're arguing with a defense attorney. And I said, I've seen Aaron Brock. Yeah, he clocked you to me. He was like, I had words for your girl. I was like, which girl? Like, I don't know who you're talking to, but he was like, I had to be like, Jorge and I don't care. Yeah, you know. Yeah. That was, I thought it was awesome. Yeah. They have great energy, like,

“great casting. Yeah. It's just like a fun crew. So I can't wait. I honestly just want to know”

who's still together. Yeah. So fascinating. It's going to be a ringing. You're not going to want to miss and you will all be talking about it. We will obviously on Thursday's episode of

reality recap, share our thoughts about what goes down to the reunion. And I'm sure there'll be a

lot of opinions, a lot of people agreeing and disagreeing with our takes, which we can't wait for. But up next, we bring in therapy, Jeff, to help us break down all the drama that's going on in the world of the Bachelor at Taylor, Frankie Paul, Moment Wives and really looking forward to this conversation. Like with the Emily's last week, we're, we are trying to, obviously, have these conversations recognizing that it's not just a reality TV drama. These are real lives

with real people in very serious situations. So obviously, there is a fascination. We will continue to talk about it. But we want to bring in people like Jeff, who have a level of expertise beyond like what we're reading on the internet and just people's hot takes about therapy, speaking, things like that. Really grateful to have someone like Jeff to help us guide us through this conversation. So without further ado, there are a P. Jeff. That's beyond us. Most of us

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“the store. Jeff, welcome to the show. Yeah, happy to be here. Great to have you. I think many of us”

listening or watching have seen your great content online. I know I've been following you for years now and really enjoy your perspective, especially in an age where therapy speak is kind of taken over the internet and I think it's like this balance of we all want to educate ourselves. We all want to like feel like we've developed as humans and we're learning, but it's some of us sometimes we feel like we've got a little out of control and now we're like misusing terms and

things like that. So it's always great to have someone like yourself, give us clinical definitions

and explain the why behind some of the things that we so often talk about. But before we dive into all these conversations going on, send it around, Jennifer and keep Paul, Dakota, Walmart wives, the bachelor at. Can you just give for the people who aren't familiar with you a little bit about your background and your area of expertise, Jeff? Sure. Yeah, I've been a therapist for a little over 20 years now. I primarily work with individuals and couples. My specialty

used to be working with people that felt really, really anxious in relationships and what that does to them, how they show up in relationships. But I've been seeing couples and families now for, yeah, for 20 years and I've been posting content on TikTok and Instagram for about five years now. You seem like also a part of an in pop culture. I've seen some of your content talking about, you know, this whole Taylor Frankie poem to go to situation. Have you always been a fan of

Riaid TV and pop culture? I have been. I've always been a fan. I've actually the first

reality show that I was a huge fan of was the bachelor. Okay. So I was a fan of yours for a while, but I've watched every season ever since it premiered and I'm a little disappointed that we don't

“get this recent one. Yeah, I think we'll get into it as we get into this conversation. But it's”

still unclear whether we will see this season. I think reports recently came in. I now they're going to allow us to maybe get to know the men a little bit more. Bachelor happy hours. There are official podcasts, which is, you know, is interesting. It sounds like they might be interviewing these men. I don't suspect we're going to get much of a tell-all in terms of like what went down filming. My guess is that there's going to use this as an opportunity. Their obviously is a lot of

interest send around these men. There's just a lot of interest in general regarding this show. So my guess is it will be like, where are you from? You know, all those intro packages we used to see, you know, in the bachelor at I'm guessing it's a lot of that, but it's certainly at least something. I guess Jeff, let's start with just from your perspective, how have you been seeing this entire situation starting with like why the bachelor was canceled? Obviously we saw that very

horrifying video between Dakota and Taylor, but just before I dive into my questions, I would just love your overall perspective from how you see things playing out. I'm rooting for Dakota and Taylor. I find them both to be really likable in lots of different ways and also kind of scary and

“concerning in other ways. I think both of them are kind of suffering from like this high insight”

and low change sort of situation, where even on your podcast and when they talk to the camera, or they do interviews, or they do reunions, it really feels like they understand what is going on with them like emotionally and in their psyche. And the way that they, I don't think that they're kind of using therapy speak in and like in a non-in a genuine way. I think they're using it in a way because they go to therapy, they understand themselves, they have a bunch of insight, but I think

part of the problem is that they talk about their insight so much that it feels like change in a way

or it feels like they could change, but when the rubber hits the road, they don't change and it feels really upsetting and then they have this like abuse pattern that they cycle through over and over again. So, yeah, I'm rooting for them. I also see myself, I think we all see ourselves in them a little bit so we can connect with things that they do or we can feel really let down by the decisions that they make sometimes. So there's also like this parasocial relationship to it that really

gets us glued to them. Yeah, you made a really interesting video about our relationship as fans to this kind of parasocial relationship. I want to ask you about as we continue this conversation. One thing I wanted to ask you about which kind of drove me to thinking you'd be a great guest is certainly the dust hasn't settled, but it's settling, right? You know, we went from this kind of crazy few days, you know, this video came out, the batteric cancelled a lot of just like it was

an intense for obviously the people involved, but even for the fans, it was, there was this intensity. Now the dust is kind of settling, there's almost this quiet period of us all kind of speculating about what may or may not happen next, but also speculating about these relationships and what's kind of led to all this happening. I'm seeing a lot of conversations online and I'm hearing words

of what they might mean, but I would love to hear your perspective and your clinical

definition of this and then maybe we can dive into what the people saying that they're seeing patterns of reactive abuse and these relationships between Dakota and Taylor. What I'm hearing is that there is a sentiment that like this relationship obviously between Dakota and Taylor has been going

“on for a while now. Now we know that, I mean, that the show has been centered around that, but I think”

what we're not, what we're realizing now that I don't think as the average fans knew and even people who knew like I knew Dakota and Taylor, I was not on the impression that it was as dark as it seems to be. And there is a sentiment with everyone I've talked to connected to this circle

that they've been in each other's company and there is a feeling that this video that Dakota

recorded. This is a theme, I guess. And I think there are people speculating there may be more content out there, I don't know what's on it, who knows? We get into the whole conversation that Jessie had on the Colorado podcast where she talked about Jordan making threats and suggesting black mailing her, you know, there's these voice memos from Harry Jowsey and she has this Jordan sent it to himself. And there again, you get into this kind of pattern almost with these men of

dad talk or, you know, is you see Dakota and Jordan talking and almost like comparing notes. Anyways, we're getting into the weeds here. Can you start Jeff by what is reactive abuse? What

“is Darvo? And do those definitions apply at all with what you're potentially seeing with these characters?”

Yeah, let's get into the definition. But I also want to say that Dakota and Taylor, their relationship is so complicated and nuanced and layered that these definitions don't cleanly fit into their situation. And they both kind of like have a role that they're playing here. So Darvo stands for Denai Attack, reverse victim and a vendor. So it's like no, I didn't do it. You did it. Actually, I'm the victim. It fits more cleanly. Like Darvo fits more cleanly

in something like Alex and Ashley from Love as Blind, where like Ashley is saying like, hey, your timeline, Alex is really weird. What's going on there? And Alex is like, whoa, whoa, I don't know what you're talking about. Like I have a normal life. And you're being really weird, asking me all these questions. And actually, do you want me to show you the receipts? I feel attacked. Like it's just like Ashley is just like, what's going on here? And Alex is like

being all Darvo about it. The problem with Dakota and Taylor, they have their own versions of it. So Dakota, I would say is more strategic about his Darvo. Like it's more like a manipulation tool.

“So when he gets vulnerable, I think that his vulnerability looks really real. Like, oh, I'm sorry.”

I lied. I shouldn't have done that. I should have been more transparent. Then he starts to cry or get teary. And that feels really compelling. But that could also be seen as like him doing a little bit of denial and a little bit of attack because we're kind of like getting sucked into his story. And then he can be very specific about the timing of his stuff. Like the timing of like, I think are we all on the same page now that like he was probably the one

who like released the video and gave it to TMZ. Yeah, we had Emily D Baker and Emily Lunger out of from variety on last week, specifically Emily D Baker painted it. It seemed to be a pretty clear picture that Dakota owned the IP. So whether it came directly from him or he worked with maybe lawyers

or a third party or a friend, I think there is speculation amongst this group. If, you know,

he went through some of the other man. But it does seem clear that it starts with Dakota. And I guess back to you, I'm quite curious for you, Jeff, from a therapist perspective. Is there anything to make of the timing in which this video is released, knowing that if nothing else Dakota certainly knew this video existed, he certainly knew it was on this video. And, you know, again, that video was horrifying. There's no justification for what you see in the

video. But given the timing when it was released and what seems to be strategy around it, does that play into any of these conversations around Darvo or React of abuse? Can we can we glean anything from that? I think when we hit, like, you watch the video and it seems it feels very obvious. And I stand by in this that he's the victim in that situation. But he's like, you know, conscious enough to know to like pull out his phone and start recording.

He sits on that video for a while. And then he weaponizes his victim hood at the exact right

the victim in that video. He is getting attacked by her. And then he sits on it. And this is kind of

a pattern of his where he times when he releases stuff. So he's like really good at weaponizing

“his victim hood. And that's why it's so hard to pin him down or be like, he's just Darvo.”

But he's like more of a sophisticated manipulative Darvo while Taylor, she could also qualify for Darvo deny attack and reversing victim and offender. But she's more reactive. I think her Darvo response is more of like a trauma response. It comes from feeling flooded. It's not calculated, like Dakota's is. She's like really disregulated. She can't hold complexity. She's like, this is your fault. What's this is all your fault, right? And she's she's totally hijacked in the

moment. You know, Taylor's come out and has accused Dakota of of being abusive. You know, that that that that has been said by Taylor's side of things. What I've heard from people,

multiple people is that like she she didn't film anything because in the moment, she never thought

that way. And when it was him, for whatever reason he did, he's there's a sentiment amongst the group of people that he had the wear with all to to know when to pull out the camera, so to speak. And it's just it's really hard to digest and talk about with nuance because again, you you don't want to let one person off the hook by acknowledging maybe some other actions on the other side of things. And it's it's really tricky. Yeah. Yeah. He is able to regulate his nervous system

better than she can. And he uses that and we can even like talk a little bit about how that's that's that's that's his power in a in a certain way. But reactive abuse, again, this is where it gets really murky. Reactive abuse is when someone has like been chronically provoked, gas lit or lied to manipulated over like a sustained period of time. And he does lie and gaslight her and manipulate her until she

“eventually explodes. But the problem is that like in reactive abuse, typically if you want to”

if you want to look at it cleanly, that's kind of like the only pattern that goes on. Somebody is lying, manipulating gaslighting until the other person is all of a sudden like snaps. And then you point at that person, maybe in this case Taylor, and we're like, whoa, whoa, oh my god, you're being crazy, you're abusing me. The fact is that like Taylor also acts like this in other relationships, not like a severe. But we've seen her like lose her shit before. Like she can't really

mad at other people as well. So that's why it doesn't fit very cleanly. It's not just to code a provoking her in the Taylor reacting. And you said this, but I feel like it's important to say, reactive abuse does not cancel personal, like does not cancel out personal accountability, right? It's just sort of like adds some context. So even if there was some reactive abuse going on there for Taylor, it's still very upsetting to watch her throw stools and watch one of them hit her kid.

100%. There's this video going around, you know, we're seeing a lot of old videos being popped up, having kind of different contexts behind him, and people just at least looking at him differently. And I saw this video, it's a video of Dakota filming, and he talks about there's only one person in this world who can like put me in my place. I'm paraphrasing. And she's 5, 400 pounds. You know, again, this is a nuance and kind of a difficult question to even try to frame. I've been blessed

to have an audience of women. I work around a lot of women. I have sisters. I have my wife. I hear their stories we talk about dating. And there is this, especially nowadays, men out there, you know, sometimes want to be like, what about me? I have struggles. I, you know, I've been treated belly in relationships. I've been verbally abused. I've been, you know, I've been physically abused. Like men and women can obviously, we've learned, can both be abusive. No doubt. You hear a lot of

stories like from women, just like when they go on first dates, like the fears and concerns that women have are very different from men. You know, there's usually like this kind of sentiment. So it's like, well, your date couldn't kill you with their bare hands, type of sentiment, which is like,

“that's it, you know, that's a real feeling. And I think it's a, is a, is a, is a 6, 2, 200”

pound man. I usually have never been in situations where I realize that mice, I'm in a potential

vulnerable environment. If the person I trust turns out to be someone I can't. And I think I feel like that's almost how like every woman feels like on a first date with a strange man who in most situations is twice their size. Not even a first date, just like any time you go anywhere and you're like, is this person following me? Is this person staring at me for too long? Yeah. Just like always on head. And again, this is not to take away that women can't be abusive. But like, how do you

read a situation where you have this very tiny woman in this very, what appears to be a physically

stools are being thrown to pull out his camera. And I'm just like, how do you analyze that situation, Jeff, with with the nuance that it potentially deserves? Yeah. There's so much going on here. Yeah. Like you're mentioning, there's a sort of like this inherent power that a man has to Dakota stronger, bigger. If he wanted to, he could like physically harm her quickly. So that's

always kind of like hanging in the air there. But also Taylor does have a specific type of power.

So Taylor has like a public power. Taylor is the famous one. Maybe like the more famous one. She is the platform. The income, the cultural moment is kind of like wrapped around Taylor.

“So there is some power that she's wielding. But I think that Dakota has kind of like the relational”

power. It's sort of like the the patriarchy or like the the power that's just sort of like innate in man. He has that. But also like we're saying he has the power to be not as disregulated. So when she gets disregulated, now he has all the power. Now he can like pull out the phone. Now he can like craft a story. Now he can remember what's happening. But she can't. Because she's flooded. She has no idea what's going on. There's also kind of like you see the power come up in when he was like

when he said like save a rose for me right before she went off to go film the bachelor at.

That's him being like, remember me, you like me, you want me, and then they sleep together. And now she has to go film the bachelor at. But he just but he just got in her head. She's going to be thinking about him the whole time while she's like dating these other guys. That's a certain amount of power that he flexes. He knows that he can woo her and that she'll say yes because she's kind of powerless to that sort of thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean when that scene happened and

we've talked about a length just our shock and awe of just everything about that scene. But he smokes. He smiles when they ask him the night the next day. Like you you see it in his face. He knows exactly what he's doing and his intention behind it. And it just it feels really, really

“Iggy now as we learn more about the truths about this relationship. And that's what feels to me.”

That's what feels the most dangerous about him. Is that like in these like chaotic situations,

he can go ahead and like he can regulate his nervous system and come up with a plan of how to get Taylor hooked. And Taylor, you know, she's an adult that can make adult decisions. She should like make better choices. But it's so hard for her to say no to him. And it's because of this like a bute cycle that they're trapped in. And it's because of her own abandoned went wounds. We can like point this back to her father and under like look at her through that lens to see how like

Dakota is sort of pulling on those strings as well. Yeah. I've I've heard from a lot of people that over these course of these seasons being filmed that Dakota has made kind of idle threats in the past where like I'm almost suggesting to the people around them if people only knew how Taylor was with me. And and he made a lot of these comments and now with his video being released.

“Again, it's hitting different. There's literally a scene. I think it's season two of some of the”

women confronting Taylor Frankie Paul about they even knew, you know, are suggesting there's more to the story. But when you hear it from potentially coming from Dakota as a threat. And then you see this video being released. If that's true, it speaks to that kind of calculated behavior. I think the big X factor right now. But last week I was talking and I've talked to a lot of like former producers. People who aren't like associate with the show now, but just like very familiar

with the industry. A lot of them just kind of suspected they're going to find a way they're going to find a way to air this. Maybe it's on Hulu. The more I talk to people, the big question is if they were decide to air the batch rush their batch ret. So they cancel it. Now they everyone thinks it's done. Dakota leased this video three days before the batch ret was said to premiere. And I think there's a lot of people suspecting that if he has any more information on her, who knows what's on it?

But there is a feeling with the people around her that if they changed their mind and find a way to air it, he will once again retaliate. Now that's a speculation from people close to these people. The feeling is there's just a lot more to this story than a lot of people are saying. I don't know exactly what that means. It seems to be centered around this relationship. But part of me honestly can't tell now that we see these women on TikTok and moving forward.

It's like between Jesse and making out with Chase. It's like they're still making the show in a way. It almost seems like these women are in the while facing the elimination of their show because I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that even Mormon wipe that mom talks survives, they seem to be doing their darnedness to give us a reason to want to keep watching.

And yeah, what do you think about all that Jeff?

I'm going back a little bit. It feels scary thinking that like Dakota has more videos or information that he hasn't released and that's kind of like hanging over everybody's head of whether or not the see the bachelor at season is going to be released. I just to give context and Dakota has talked pretty openly about his addiction just to everyone knows and I feel like people understand. But like addiction literally requires your relationship with the truth.

When you're when you're an addict and you're an addict for that long and that's severely,

“the truth is is something that's sort of malleable. I think it's different. It's very difficult for”

his brain to actually be honest. This isn't an excuse for him. This is just sort of like understanding his psyche. So and that's because that's just how addiction works. Like you sort of play with the truth because you're so concerned about how you're seen or your shame or how to get more drugs. So it's hard to kind of like nail down Dakota with the truth because

there's always something that he's hiding. There's always going to be something that he is hiding.

And he's kind of talked about this before. He's also instead of being addicted to drugs. He's addicted to her now. He's her drug and it's easier for me to treat a client that's addicted to a substance than somebody who's addicted to a person because at least you can just drop the substance go cold turkey with that but they have a kid and they're never going to be able to go cold turkey. So there's always going to be something I think that he's going to have to be holding

in his pocket that will make her look bad or make her disregulated or hold the truth from her

“because that's just how he operates. That's how he's sort of vived being an addict. That's how he's”

surviving being addicted to her. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do but it's that's so dark when you frame

it that way. It's yeah, sorry. I mean, but I appreciate that that's what it is that perspective. And that is the reality of the situation. And just I'm still processing. We spent a lot of time talking about it last week but you know again, I come from Bashelworld, right? So my exposure to reality V in how it's made is very much centered around that. Obviously I've seen it being made different ways. We've talked either there's huge spectrum but it is when you get into Mormon

wives again like for all the people who want to see the show continue for all the people who are staunch Taylor Frankie Paul supporters because it's just like, hey, we knew about this. She was open about it. She told us about this and then we have a show that it really pulls no punches. Again, whatever you think about the people who produce Mormon wives, they haven't really changed how they've gone about their business and how they filmed the show and they have gotten nothing

up into this point other than praise from fans. They've won Emmys. They are crushing the ratings. And so it's just like, I feel like there's a lot of people on that end are almost like acting like they feel gas like because it's like, wait, we weren't hiding anything. We were literally showing you everything. And yet here we are in this fork in the road with these two franchises intersecting and people from bat your nation are just like, wait, why are we seeing a scene where

she's talking about her ex finishing in a way that's, you know, you know, not necessarily meant for network television, you know, it's like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a different show. And it's just like the way how are the decision makers at Hulu in Disney deciding which ones they can move forward because I just don't know how they, how do they air season five without Taylor

“Frankie Paul in it? And if they air, Taylor, Frankie Paul in it, how do you air that pay her for it?”

And then what cancel her after that because of the video that again, the show entire show was focused on it just gets really confusing about how us fans internalize this very real situation, but also our relationship to the show and how we've been enjoying it's so weird. It's like as a fan and I think fans watching Mormon wives on Hulu, you sort of, you, you have this specific lens they're like, okay, so this is, this is how the drama unfolds, this is how people show up on

on the show. This is kind of like what we're accepting when we're watching this show and, and that's how we sort of like view it. And then there's the bachelor in the bachelor nation and that's a different lens that we put on. We're maybe a little bit more traditional or specific about how we want people to show up on that show. And those are two different audiences, but those are also two different lenses inside of us and they're kind of like battling each other and just in a

similar way that maybe these networks are kind of battling each other. It's hard to wrap our head

getting at as well, but it feels maybe a little exploited is where we're like asking like, okay,

“well it was was Taylor frinky Paul was she ready to be a reality star and are the cameras”

taking advantage of this really messy raw moment in her life. And I guess like the bachelor at was sort of maybe going to be like a redemption arc or seeing her in a different way in a different light. And we sort of feel at least I personally feel kind of robbed a little bit by like getting to know her in even a different way. So yeah there's a lot going on. Well it's interesting because again we were talking about this offline before we recorded the show. When it comes to being a reality

V star again, there's this weird relationship between reality V star and producer, right? And at the end of the day they are making a TV show. And not everything is it's not the Truman show,

never everything is 100% authentic, it's edited, yada, yada, yada. But there's a lot of situations

I've spoken my experiences before were, you know, in bachelor well it's silly, right? It's just like famously there was this woman named Karen. I might see his head and she really leaned into like being immature. So producers brought out this bouncy castle for her to jump on and she had this nanny and blah, blah, blah. And I very reluctantly agreed to jump with her in the bouncy castle to my everlasting regret. Those conversations between cast member and producer go something like

this or just like, hey man, like just help us out here. It's like it's not that big of a deal. Yeah, you might catch heat for it, but like whatever it's not like going to define you. And so you do these little things that with you and another, you wouldn't do, you know, it's not even who you are. It doesn't represent your character, it doesn't represent like, you know, it's like you would make a different decision if it was kind of up to you.

And then you ultimately will catch heat for it. And then, you know, when you go on press tours

you're like, yeah, you try to like let people know in a way that you wouldn't do it, right? We're talking about this, you know, it's not a crime to be silly or be useful in jumping a bouncy castle, right? But with other shows, I think with the different universes, it really gets into the weeds between like holding yourself accountable for what you do on on camera versus like acting like you're playing a character. And I do think in some of these shows,

the people making these TV shows start blurring the lines between what's actually real and what's not, like when you have producers, taking you on to do bad behavior. There's this viral clip going around right now of Jordan filming Mormon wives. And it's like clear he's acting. It's like it's clear he's doing a scene. But then to these people justify their actual bad behavior and call it a scene, it's just like it's so fucking crazy and messy. And as someone who

“knows how this shit works, I can't even give the definitive answer, because you have to really”

get inside the minds of all these different people. And they all have a, you know, they all come in with different perspectives and personalities. They all come in different expectations of what they think reality TV is, what the fans expect of them, you know, what's on the line for them,

like a cast spot, and Bravo World, we're always like, did they earn a spot? Did they earn

their snowflake for next season? And like the pressure of these people face to give good TV? And where does the accountability line draw between cast member owning their own actions? And someone being like, hey, can you do this for us? Those are all really good questions. I sort of, I think about, while you're talking about this, I think about Tom Sandevol, a little bit. I mean, Tom Sandevol was like incredibly messy, super, eventually like the super villain

on Vanderpump rules. We all had a lot of feelings about him. And then he's on traders. And then we see him like, oh, well, he's kind of goofy. Oh, he's really silly. Or he's really good of this game. Or he sings backwards really well. This is so fun, right? Like there's, we like develop a different relationship with him. And in those cases, it kind of, I don't know, works. We're like, maybe he was eggdon and Vanderpump rules and just sort of like leaving in that

“environment for so many years. And then he gets this, I don't know, if you want to call it like”

a redemption on traders. And we see him like, yeah, we see him in a different way. There's also like this, this thing that happens in therapy. Like if I'm seeing a couple and they're like deep in their pattern. And they don't even realize like the abuse cycle that they're caught in, then me as the therapist, I'm sort of there, what we call like their frontal lobe, the part of their brain that like sees things practically and logically. And I'm like, hey, this isn't okay. That was

shitty to say, you're being really mean. There's Darvo going on here. Let me tell you what's up. Like I'm going to let you know the reality of the situation because you're so caught up in this relationship. I think the same thing sort of happens with people on reality shows where they get

rely on the producers and the producers, they're acting as like the frontal lobe, the logical part

of them doing like, oh, this is okay. This isn't okay. But the producers, they also are under a lot of pressure to create a good show. They're under a lot of pressure to like create the drama so that the TV show is compelling, right? So who's actually like got the real frontal lobe that knows what's going on. That can give everybody a reality check. I'm not sure anybody there is doing that. So everyone's kind of being exploited at a certain level. Yeah. No, I mean, that's perfectly stated in

ya. And I've heard from some peers that who have said there's there's clearly no adults in the room. When it comes to some of the decisions that were made as it relates to these two shows. And now, again, we have the Jesse Draper drama. American, can you walk us through for anyone who doesn't know what's going on with Jesse Draper and Jordan and Chase and Harry Josie has entered the chat. And it kind of speaks to like a lot of people are out there being like, oh, there are no other men

and Utah. Yeah. So basically, if you're wondering what we're talking about, Jesse Draper did

allegedly kiss Chase and then sent Miranda flowers as an apology. And the card message read, I completely understand you being upset with me. But wanted to send you a little something to let you know that I'm thinking about you. And I am so, so sorry, Jesse. It's giving like high school college where it's just like, you know, you only know so many people. So everyone kind of dates everyone. Well, that's a thing though, right? Like we have to take the sort of like Mormon culture of

“at all into into context here. I think there's a lot of arrested development that's going on.”

Like, they're acting like high schoolers because they didn't get to play out their high school years when they're actually children possibly. Sure. And so now they're doing it in front of all of us. And this should be going on in private. Like without cameras filming every single thing. So we're also kind of the whatever, the crew of the producers or the network is like taking advantage of their arrested development. But their actual adults that should have had like fully

formed brains by now. I mean, this Miranda posted that the day of Jesse's holiday episode as well. And there were some, this is also when Harry Jowsey had leaked DMs between him and Jesse Draper. And Jordan was trying to go on with on with Dakota to Harry Jowsey's podcast. So it's all just, yeah, he got his trying very hard. We will not be having Jordan or Dakota on

“for anyone who's speculating that he might come on here. I think my wife Natalie pointed out.”

Like we just, no one wants to hear from him. I don't think we've heard enough. You know, like, when it comes to Jordan, he's one of the most unappealing around ITV people who really seems to be wanting to take advantage of his future ex-wife success. But the allegations that he was trying to frame her and that he sent these voice messages message to himself and then put in like a Finn stick count. So it made it seem like some random person sent it to him and in

reality, he broke into his wife's phone and sent it to himself. Like, what is that giving to you, Jeff? Like, what is that say to you? I mean, it's giving desperation of like wanting to be the hero or wanting to be seen in a specific type of way. And also like having no, I don't know morals about it, where all of this feels very like play things. Like, it's giving a little bit of narcissism, like a little bit of sociopathy, a little bit of like anti-social personality disorder,

or just like everybody is sort of like a little puppet. You'll do whatever you're going to do in order to create the narrative that serves you most. And yeah, it's also kind of like chickenarag thing with

“some of these folks like, do you have to be this way to kind of like be a reality star or does this”

like make you this way in order to like survive the situation that you're in? But it's something that I feel like you just, it feels very suspicious and you can't trust it and it feels really gross. It's weird because again, I don't, I can't be in, it's hard to be inside of the heads of all these people and on reality V. I just remember like it reminds me of the great meatloaf song.

I remember my psychology when I was like doing reality V because it was always like, I always had

a line. It was like, you know the, I'll do anything for love, but I won't do that. I just, it was always like, yeah, final do this, final do that. But I'm definitely not doing that. You know, it's like, I remember feeling like I still had like, there are moments where I was definitely down bad. There are definitely moments as a look back, be like, I, I don't like, I was not in a position to be making some of these decisions. But I still always had, like, I wasn't completely

fine, but I won't do that. And it does seem like with some of these people, they've lost that,

but I won't do that or it almost feels like there is nothing they won't do to fuel the fire, so to speak, and and feed the beast. It feels like Jordan doesn't actually care about the

“healthy relationship aspect and it's more so about like a power dynamic. Because honestly,”

I think that if there's something going on in your relationship and like you brick into your spouse's phone or and you go through their messages and you find something you don't like, maybe it's not ideal that you're breaking into your spouse's phone, like sure. But at the end of the day, if you found something you don't like, then just approach your spouse with it. Like, hey, I went into your phone and I found this. It makes me uncomfortable and we need to address this in

our relationship. But instead, he went this whole round about way of sending it to himself pretending like a fan sent it to him allegedly. And to me, it just feels like you're using that as a way to gain power over her publicly and saying like, it's not, it's no longer about the the relationship dynamic. It's about like, here's this power I hold every you. So you're going to do what I want. And that's that to me is what feels so picky about it. Because I'm like, you obviously don't care about

her or your relationship. You care about what you can gain from something that made you feel uncomfortable and how you can make your wife feel bad and, you know, tear her self-esteem down more or blackmail her more. Like, that feels very problematic to me. And your public perception is like way important than either of those things too, which is just like, I have a question. As far as parasocial relationships go with people on reality TV, like as the as the reality TV star,

as the person that like someone has those parasocial relationships with you, how do you think that affects the psyche of, you know, these like people just trying to live their day to day lives? Yeah. I mean, there's going to be a certain level of grandiosity that you're probably going to

“start to have. And you need to also have enough awareness to know that this is all being fed by,”

like the validation that you're receiving online and what that does for you. You know, like I'm no big reality star, but I'm like big enough to understand, like the praise that I get, the hundreds of comments or DMs that I get daily telling me that like, you know, I'm amazing. I mean, it's a big difference or whatever it is. And I understand that I grew up in a family where I felt like I didn't get enough attention. And now I'm being flooded with attention. And there's

going to be a part of this was like, oh, this is really healing a void, a wound inside of me, an attachment wound. I'm getting like healed by it. But really, I just want my mom to hug me, right? I just want my dad to be like, I love you. Right? That's what would actually heal me. So all the stuff that I'm getting outside of that, but it's, it's not real. It feels really good

in the moment. And I'm just going to want more and more and more and more. Because it's never really

going to heal me. I have to actually like, breathe what I didn't get as a kid. And it, it makes me think about Taylor. Like, Taylor Freaky Paul's father, just like walked out total abandonment issues. And it makes perfect sense that she's, that she's still wounded by that. And it also makes perfect sense that she's attracted to somebody like Dakota where it's difficult to like really get his love in an authentic way. And then he lies to her and it feels like it's her dad walking

out on her. And then when he says that he's sorry and they have like a little honeymoon period or say like save the rose for me, then she's going to get the attention that she wishes she got from her father. And it's just sort of like replays over and over and over again. And Dakota's never going to be the one to heal that wound. Taylor needs to go to even more therapy. Do even more EMDR. I know that she was a fan of it. In order to like really process that grief and move through it. But it's

the same sort of thing that happens to everyone and everyone who's like online or internet famous or reality star. You're getting attention. It feels really good. It feels like it's healing

“a wound. It's not really, but you have to get more and more and more of it to start feeling like”

like it's actually making a difference, but it never does. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah,

that's really interesting. Can I just say that on that note, I feel like Miranda doesn't get enough praise because I think it's it's so obvious that if you're in reality TV and somebody does you dirty, you can make an entire career out of exploiting that experience. And maybe rightfully so, honestly, like when things happen people, I'm like good for them, like they are popping off and they're making the best of it and like you're bad. Yeah, get your bag exactly.

And I and I love for that person that they're not getting like redemption, whether it's financially your attention or whatever, but Miranda has has such an opportunity to or had such an opportunity

had to sit there and publicly be, she's not had to. She has chosen to publicly stand by him as

“the father for children and instead of exploiting him, knowing that her kids are going to see this”

Sunday, she's played really nice and she could totally play into this trope of like getting public validation or getting people on her side even before this situation, but she's handled it so much early and I feel like it's it is really interesting because all the attention goes to the people that seemingly don't have that internal validation of that there enough or the the healed experience, but someone like Miranda actually seems very healed and very healthy and it's

incredibly hard to sit there and be that person publicly and it seems to me like she's doing it maybe for her children and I feel like she doesn't get enough attention because it's actually kind of healthy. Yeah, every now and then there's a Miranda who's doing it right. The cameras might not like pick up on it or something or we might not pick up on it, but Miranda is mature and

a hero and seemingly kind of always gets fucked over, but like, but handles it really well.

Yeah, Susie, Curious, a lot of the chat are online about the the line cook theory as it relates to Jay's, but one can figure out what the appeal of Jay says and you were in our group chat talking about how you know it that's like what is like what's the appeal of Jay's, what's the line cook theory I'm curious. Oh well, I thought that was very funny because I've always been a waitress often on like since I was 16 it's always been like my backup or the thing that I

do in between or when I started my video business I always I love serving and in restaurant culture there's so many nuances and I love like when you're front of house and you're like you have to get dressed and you look cute and you're like presenting and you're working with people and customer services so important and the line cooks they also have like riz and they have that personality

but they're back of house because they can't hold their telling probably not always but the

“I think that's what the theory is like playing into is like the the line cooks like they are”

witty they're funny some of them have like that swagger where you're like you're a little bit you're a trouble but I want to try so I'm always like a little hungry so you go back there be like yeah always what I was a boss or used to do that yeah I see the movie waiting it's amazing myself with just and long and Ryan Reynolds and it's a but they're they're all waiting at a like an apple bees and it's about this whole culture and like Dan cooks the line cooking

it's got like swag tracks Dan perfect Pete Davidson gives line yes yeah David said it's like you have that kind of like edgy I don't know how to describe it's a there's a lushy gun Kelly yeah exactly there's like an edgy vibe to it but I think survive in restaurant culture you have to have a little bit of punch or edge and like so whether your front of house or back of house but I feel like when you're back of house you can get away with more and like once I go into the back of house

I'm also a little bit more inappropriate with the line cooking you know I'm going to get those fries with those chicken tenders so like chases and maybe they got you married but like maybe you just want to make out with them a back of restaurant kind of thing so yeah you get drinks after work yeah it does not age well it's kind of it's kind of cute and hot when you're in your 20s possibly early 30s but once you get older it's disgusting yeah before we let you go Jeff you you

made a clip about parasolish relationships and how it affects us the fans when we have these fallouts with cast members or shows get canceled or are our penguins change about people we really rode hard for I was as curious if you could share that perspective with my audience

“yeah I think when I when I first saw the TMZ video I saw it like you know minute after it came out”

I saw it with the rest of the world and I already had my you know sort of nuanced feelings for

Taylor but I've always been like a Taylor Frankie Paul fan there's something about her where

even if she's problematic she can be really authentic she can be really vulnerable she has a lot of insight she's trying to change she's doing the work I keep on giving her more and more chances because there's just something kind of nice and beautiful about her and raw and then you see her in that video and for me I was just like oh no I feel let down like I feel like oh it should I see her as a totally different person now I don't know I've seen her in a very specific way for like three or four

years and now is she a monster I'm not sure so there's a part of me that wants to defend her and then there's another part of me that's just like I'm writing her off I'm done with her I've now seen who she really is and that is a very difficult process for me specifically and everybody else

online we're so black and white so we want to throw her under the bus or we want to like totally

defend her and even when I made that video about her like oh okay this was upsetting this is really difficult we can hold two truths at once so many of her followers and fans came for me they're like this isn't her this is reactive abuse I can't believe you're a therapist it doesn't see this what are you talking about I'm just like whoa oh let's like let's slow down here for a little while

“so I think it's I don't know how to do it exactly but it's incredibly difficult to”

untie the parasolcial relationship that we have with all of these people and even Dakota of like I think a lot of women can see their ex-boyfriends in Dakota and then like take it out on hand whether he deserves it or not he probably does to a certain extent but there's like so much projection that's going on and I'm not sure people are taking a beat and are curious about their weird parasolcial relationships that they have with these people yeah it's certainly fascinating

and even for I mean we we know these people we don't just see him on TV you know we're friends with some some of them but yeah I mean our experiences with Taylor we said it has been nothing but like incredibly positive and she's been someone we've asked advice from it's it's a really weird and strange thing to process as we all are but we will all try to get through it together Jeff I want to thank you for taking the time this has been really insightful please let my audience know

where they can find you and joy all the great content that you're making yeah you can find me on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube if you just look up therapy Jeff all right Jeff I appreciate it please come back again it's great to have some with your expertise have us talk about these very difficult topics with yeah anytime all right take care thank you owning a home is exciting but it's also stressful because at some point a home system or appliance will break many home

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well very interesting conversation with chef always nice to have uh the adults in the room the

experts always nice to have people smarter than you you know yeah yeah hard to come by really i feel like you always challenges my perspective and a very semantic talk i'm like half the time i disagree with his sentiment and then i hear him explaining i'm like okay good perspective yeah well you know our feelings do matter but they are our feelings um sometimes our feelings are wrong you know right anyway well continue to cover the story who knows what's going to happen next

yeah i i think there's still a lot of decisions yet to be made i i think there's the whole element of Disney literally has a new CEO that is going to obviously be part of this decision and it will be really really really curious i mean it is it's just fascinating what does it mean that bachelor happy hour is going to be allowing us to get to know these man is that just like hey at least we have this let's take it from here is this really end of that franchise where did they go next it's

“um and then Mormon wives is i think the biggest question of it all like will that show go on”

because also a lot of these women are like posting like they're all moving to LA you know like Lala posted house hunting LA Jesse posted something about L.A. Makala obviously is here in L.A. there's that kind of like spin off right that they're working on with Jen whether there's this alleged spin off center around gen aflac in L.A. like more orange county but i can't like that's not going to include all these these women i want to be honest but they're all moving here

centered around her but they're all is it like are they all moving because they're so busy and they're like careers that now they're like hey you totally isn't the place for us yeah hey should we get into some summer house i kind of feel like this is all they're all rallying together to like troll us is what i am gathering i just feel like if these people are friends with either Sierra or Amanda and or both of them and like this is a real thing

that's going on a real friendship for how many years is being broken up like i don't feel like they'd be on their instagram stories posting like meme pictures of themselves to like feed into it i feel like this would be clearly a serious matter that they're like i don't know but now you have Kyle like you know there was a comment being like

“everyone's like checking in on Sierra because i think we can all agree that if this rumor”

is true i feel like Sierra everyone agrees it's here as most right to be upset and then everyone's kind of talking about how well we're forgetting about how Kyle's doing and he like commented like a sad emoji with his hand up and it's like suggesting that he's i mean it's they're they're getting to the point of engaging with this content they i mean you would otherwise take as a confirmation that these rumors are true but like this is a group of people

not too long ago where Jesse Solomon was in the the comments saying you know you have nice cans to a married woman and again that's not that that's again the end all

be all but it's uh we're all sitting there as fans of the show being like i would i would never

make a comment like that to my friend's wife let along online for everyone to seeing it here they are doing it but the question is if it is fake it feels kind of fucked up like both sides are fucked up it's like if it's true that's shitty and like what the fuck how do they continue how can a man to do this to Sierra how can West do this to Sierra

and how are y'all able to just act like this okay did they get up of free pass if it's an April Fool's joke that they have been on it's just like you're still creating this narrative that like Sierra's getting fucked over regardless so it's like at the end of the day do you actually care about her or no or do you just want to make a TV you have people really people who are passionately team Sierra team Amanda they're gonna write hard for these people they're gonna be in

the comments they're gonna be going to war i mean this is like giving you know scandal of all two point oh and it's just like what what are we doing here if it is real i mean West is really the true

“villain of this story clearly i mean i mean i think we should we go through yeah i think we should”

should we go through what actually we know so okay let's yeah let's go through i feel like it all started from speculation that West well so West and Amanda were posting tick talks hanging out that sparks speculation that maybe they were dating or hooking up then we have um the photo in the house of West hanging out with them where it's just friends and then you have just the Solomon poked fun at this where he meant to dinner with Amanda and said if anybody sees this

this is not a day and then it was so reported on Amanda spotted with Jesse so it's like there's all the speculation surrounding Amanda there was an Amazon live that Sierra and Amanda were supposed to do together and then they didn't do it together and so now people think that they're like beefing Sierra hasn't been liking or commenting on Amanda's posts so people are thinking that this is true and then you have Lindsay Hubbard who like posts this picture of like her completely shocked and

disgusted a screen cap from the show a meme from the show of herself being shocked and then a photo with her and Sierra but it's not just Lindsay posting that cage i also posted a picture a meme picture of her also posted a meme it's one thing to not speak on a rumor right it's one thing to have the the blogs or the fans i saw you know so and so we're out the lunch or whatever

and not commenting on it till allow a rumor that you if you've never spoke on it like you're

not doing anything wrong but now that they're engaging with it and again they're they're in the comments confirming that this story's true i mean there's no other way to read into comments with Kyle like having a tear emoji when people are asking is anyone checked in on Kyle Kyle's reacting though to that saying has anybody thought has anybody thought about Kyle like that's like he's reacting to those so he's not confirming but that basically is confirming because

if it wasn't true then he wouldn't respond if it's like this isn't something that's actually happening then he wouldn't feel the need to like be in the comments being like wait yeah guys why is no one not checking on me yeah like if he if he's doing the hand emoji and it's not true

“then i think it's really problematic i'm like oh so you just want attention well yeah i think”

they're all acting on this level of plausible deniability for this rumor because it obviously is getting attention to the show but then we find out when we have conversations about these couples that like you know these these are real people and like this was a real relationship between west and sea are there were real feelings of like betrayal and heartbreak and it's just like well which one is it you know it's it's it gets very confusing if it is real i don't know how

west survives this if it is real i'm gonna do something gross for seira's sake i very very hope much hope it's not real because that would be so fucked up as she made any comments as she done any of the i haven't seen anything from here okay so you're uh what's whoever yeah i'm curious which is it's coming from everyone around them it's coming from everyone around her so then it's like okay she or friend yeah are they if it's not real are have they gotten her blessing to do this

narrative that right always with something that was very personal to her she was with lensie

i don't know well i'm sure we'll find out soon in the later we also have Beverly Hills housewives is airing and we have a feud between Sarah Michelle Galler and Andy Cohen Sarah Michelle Galler recently was doing some press she's a fan of housewives she watches the shows she did an interview on radio and anything to page six guys and she talked about how like as many fans feel that they're just not enjoying this season of Beverly Hills housewives as compared to say

other seasons or other housewives franchises and and Andy took offense to Sarah Michelle Galler's comments and and kind of clapped back and kind of suggested like kind of like you know maybe on at least on my platform you know on radio and keep your opinions to yourself and a lot of people

“are taking sides as they do on the internet i think we a lot of us have agreed with Sarah what's”

interesting it's just like you know objectively when it comes to housewives how many franchises are there it's hard not to compare you know we have Salt Lake we have Orange County we have Beverly

Hills we have Potomac we have Atlanta there's some like amazing franchises and you know right now

Salt Lake's having Salt Lake cities having their moment and it's it's hard not you want to rank them you

about all of Andy's shows and in some will have praise and some will have criticism it's just like

Andy's reaction is just like it just reminded me that like when it's about you it just always hits

different you know when when you're the one going through a breakup when you know I've had friends over the years like make comments about things that we are a part of you know or you hear it you know they do an interview and they say something and it gets clipped and someone sends it to me and then we're always like wow the fuck with the why with this you know why would they say that you know and then you call up to Fred you talk to them they're like well that was kind of taking out a

context and you didn't hear the other side and like I was just trying to be objective because it's

“what we do and I'm like yeah no I fucking get it that's what I do but like when it happens to you”

like you're never seeing things clearly you know you're always it just hits differently so Andy being offended I totally get because it's like what Sarah like what why I talk to you shit about my show you know and it's just like but also people have come on watch what happens live and said that Beverly Hills is boring like people are saying it to his face people are saying it on his platform so it's like she really didn't say anything new and she didn't say anything that was like more

offensive she just said that it's boring what did everyone else has said and it's you know and Beverly Hills we've said this before you have these this cast of like these many of iconic women and you're you hear more about their lives in the in the tabloids than you do on the show and it really seems like a group of women who feel like they have more to lose and when you compare how they move compared to say the women on Salt Lake City where it's no holds bar and they're really

just going for it it is it is hard not to feel a different way when you watch Beverly Hills versus say Salt Lake City or Potomac you know like the conversations they're having on Potomac just

“feel more raw and authentic and we have like calf can get on Beverly Hills I mean I think they're”

in the fence of Beverly Hills I like although I do not think this is the strongest season I have

seen whatsoever I do always appreciate the kind of like aloofness that comes from Beverly Hills because

I think all it like is very reflective of the tone of the show I mean it is this kind of like Artificent Beverly Hills I wish they were more open and vulnerable this season because it is getting a little okay but I don't know also Sarah Michelle Geller is going to be and stop that train the RuPaul movie with jujuby which is a drag race movie that's basically airplane and so I think she's doing fun I like this season of Beverly Hills I do know it's the whole

time like I like it as well and I'm new to Beverly Hills I'm new to a lot of the house size but I'm actually like hangout show honestly I feel like a chill hangout show it's not sometimes really TV gets so heavy and honestly when I was watching Potomac I was taking on a lot of the stuff and so I feel like with Beverly Hills I kind of like the aloof I kind of like yeah I also think I live here in LA and so I'm seeing things that I'm it's just like interesting it's interesting to see

how people live I don't know I'm liking it I was like I live here but yet I still have never

experienced a life that you experience I also think the thing with Beverly Hills is people are used to the last couple of seasons where I got like dark and like now they're seeing these characters

“be more comfortable in settings that aren't about serious conversations and I think that's why”

they're like oh this is boring but it's like no this isn't boring it's just Erica not dealing with the lawsuits you know like it's just like a little bit less of the dark stuff and more of just the other parts of their life yeah which honestly I think after what they've gone to it was in that show yeah we're just like a nice little right now I started watching this show called DTF St. Louis you guys heard about it no it's with Jason Bateman if you like Jason Bateman you'll love this show it's

it's a it's a dark comedy there's a murder there's it's a little bit of like who done it you know and it's basically about like the the darkness of like the suburban married life or life gets boring and mundane and couples like get the egg from their partners and then stuff having sex and there's this scene where like one of the main characters David Harper and he's talking he's like what's your egg he's talking to Jason Bateman's character and his you know they're trying to

make ends meet so his wife she becomes an umpire and she's dressed up in full-on pire gear and ever since then he like can't get aroused by his wife anymore because he can only see her in a pire gear doesn't worry for him and we're watching this episode of Beverly Hills again like I'm not a fashionista so no disrespect but I'm watching this and I and and the calfcat what is it called calf tan that that would be my like wardrobe ache it's just like if you just started only

we're honestly all I want to wear when I'm pregnant I listen I'm sure Rachel she's in a divorce era I doubt she's dressing for men I totally fucking get it I'm not I'm not contains a hot first of all

it's just more it's giving a chin isn't sweatpants if if I had money I'd be wearing a calf

“calf tan is rich successful yes that's a country it's my it's my wardrobe ache it's just”

I'm sure it can be sexy so it was my pajama pants there's more than a few you know I mean maybe I just agree but it is fascinating to think about like something you see where you're just like that yeah that's this not for me you know my wardrobe ache is a V-nex in any sense just completely on it I had a check I was like oh no am I wearing a V-nex perfectly on men a man in a V-nex I'm like 2000 to 2010 I was exclusively yes yeah well that's of the time I'm talking about right now in the

year of our Lord 2026 if someone's wearing a V-nex I'm just like do you see the SNS get with Ben Steller

in the D-V and then it kept getting deeper and deeper and then like the V was like I thought very

called out there on on that back then that's funny and everyone has their relationship back I don't know alright well get ready to get some laughs I know we've talked about some heavier topics but our next guest is absolutely hilarious and he is the star of the new hit show company retreat that is now streaming on Amazon if you watch Jerry duty you're gonna love company retreat and you're gonna love our next guest it's such a fascinating show that they make and we can't

wait for you to hear from Alex Bonifer who plays Dougie in company of sheet and he is up next Alex Bonifer welcome to show I I can't believe I'm here in all of the the best ways possible and really I can't believe I'm here because when I pulled up I I know this building and then I got an elevator and I know this floor Dougie Jr. was born right down the hall I tested I tested

so I put myself on tape first and then they had us come in to do an hour long improvised

job interview essentially and at the production office which is right down the hall from here I got to chills thinking but extra special because I mean it feels that way to me but yeah when we it's so funny we obviously have been watching the show and then whenever they were like oh we got Alex to come on the show I was like oh let me like Google which what he is and then I'm like

“we haven't met him yet so weird we're like I think he's like she's like really”

that the air was not yeah I mean it's a great head ahead you had to grow that out or yeah I didn't have to but I so when we started I my hair was like medium length and I knew that I wanted Dougie to be kind of an unkempt blob who's like obviously not fit to be in charge of anything let alone a business a company so my hair was like medium and for the audition I just like teased it out and made it all kind of crazy and it gets big like that and then I was on a show

called Kevin can fuck himself a few years ago that was on AMC I've got moved over to Netflix and I don't know what the algorithm algorithm was or whatever but like sometimes you'd scroll through and see my face on the light carousel so I wasn't concerned that he was going to watch it but I was like if he's on Netflix he could see my face then I was on three national commercials that were running at the same time as we possibly was saying he's like he's busy but I so I was like

super concerned so I was like all right step one I got to grow in Nick level beard here maybe even a little bit longer to hide behind that then once we got into the really extensive rehearsal process which is about like a month like five weeks and the more I got to know Dougie I was like I if I was so I perform at the groundlings too I should say that where we do sketch and improv and we are really big into costumes I own over 50 wigs and I was like what would I do to

disguise myself we have the costume I have the beard like I would wear a wig I can't do that let's bleach my hair and I was very particular about I needed to show that the roots like I didn't want to go around the roots badly we used two different tones to just be even

“shittier you know and then the roots were important to me because it showed that like he couldn't”

even maintain that no need for that or was that something you did at home no no I wanted to go over fashion you're like I want you to do yeah I was like do the best shitty bleach job of your life make sure my hair doesn't fall out yes I have so many questions but like I guess it's just starting with just the process of how do you guys prepare for a show like this where everyone is an actor except for our main character or here are King and us normies we hear

of things like method acting you know where you're just like staying in character but like yeah how how did you guys make sure and what was this set up to even do this is it improv is

originality come together and work the way it does yeah the the first part of this answer is

“in our preparation and even before they even hired us as a cast to come on like the world building”

that went into rocking grandma's was insane an unfathomable amount of world building went into this show I mean they built you know the rocking grandma's website they had a customer service hotline there was you know how Anthony was brought on was a whole like you know like this attempt staffing agency that had a website in a profile in LinkedIn pages and like all this stuff so even from like the job establishing this reality before we even got there was paramount so that if you know any if

it was like if Anthony started Googling or whatever like that world was created then the preparation

once we were all hired which again was right down the hall we would have our like first

means and you'll see it like in potentially later episodes like of us in that office but we had to not only whereas in the first season they were strangers and also shout out to the first season they

“walked so we could run like we're nothing without the cast of jury duty and Ronald Gladden”

but they were presumed strangers so they did not have to know anything about each other they didn't have to have to have a history but we had to know like I had to build my life story with Jerry Howe who plays my dad and force him to kiss me on the mouth 100 times so it but it was just through that preparation and then Nick to answer your question we had it was scripted in that we knew the road we were traveling on or we were we would hope to travel on meaning like we knew the

story we wanted to tell we knew that you know Doug he wasn't lying to take over the company and that he would make a blunder in the form of a jerk off sauce and screw things up like so we knew that that stuff was happening the top of that was it mild medium or hot taco bell sauce it was it talk about mild sauce yeah we'll talk about mild sauce yeah and I actually like the confusion you have

they sell a lot of it maybe we can't I actually so fun fun little BTS tidbit so the first two we

were at the we're at the office in Cano Gapark for two days a lot of that was just again establishing nothing really crazy happened we just wanted to establish that we were a real business that operated well none of us are we're just sitting behind these fake computers so most of it was just like sending messages to each other doing bits calling our own phones and like leaving voicemails but just having conversations of like yeah oh that'd be great oh absolutely no kidding you don't

say like those kinds of conversations so I would have like 15 minute long voicemails to myself but one of the things I did to pass the time was call I probably called about I don't know 20 or 30 different real taco bells asking how many hot sauces I could take if I came and bought like a taco how many sauces and I got varying answers so taco bell get your stories straight stand in some people said I could have all of it and some people said you get two and some people

said yeah I know it was a wide range so usually I got a handful when like so I'm assuming that when Anthony says anything that's kind of where the improv comes in yes so to finish answering the question there was no scripted dialogue so again we knew like the journey we wanted to travel but every line of dialogue that you heard said on that show was you know like the jokes like like I was so honored and shocked that the joke that I improvised with you know it's not an urge or

it's not a hand job it's an urge job like that's something I improvised it's not like usually this thing he was in your head being like when it when the trailer dropped I was like can't believe it but it was such a good lesson because I was nervous and I was like is there are they gonna think this is too joky are they gonna get mad at me for this or whatever but I just trusted my instinct and so to have it like validated in that way is like the button on the trailer

“and what's so fascinating too because you know I think we always take it for granted how TV shows”

and movies are made but they're often shot out of order you know like I actually saw a clip of Jeff Daniels talking about Dumb and Dumber and how the very first scene they filmed was the motorcycle scene no driving into aspect because he was basically talking about they wanted to test him first so they did a scene with him with Jim Carrey and then shot a then had a week of filming with just him because they were kind of testing him it's kind of fascinating clip but

it's fascinating but you guys obviously shot just you had to like that first scene of episode

for everyone like all right here we go everyone like very Truman show where like Truman's

“about to walk into the building everyone like ever marks and it's like it's there's no there's no”

cut there's no action you know there's no like redoing it that's so fast it can't begin to

describe the nerves on that first day like so I so we started on a Thursday and they had a

full day at the office I wasn't there because Dougie takes Thursday's his mental health day so he takes off Thursday's to get ready for the weekend of course as one does so I wasn't there but I showed up on Friday and I knew that my first interaction with Anthony was gonna be in the conference room mixing my sauces but but I was there that first day in the our control center so we had all the monitors up watching him like watching his movements and like you know but it was so it was

like you said it was like the the the the the the the Truman show has begun there is no turning back now where like every moment is the point of no return and I remember waiting in my car for the green light to drive into the parking lot get out of my car and like begin this journey and um yeah

“remember like it was yesterday like the the nerves and the feelings and but the only way to get through”

it is you just you just it's kind of like earlier it's just like lock in and be as I'm not a method actor at all but like you kind of have to just get in that headspace when Anthony was like at the every tree and the the 50 bucks the 50 bag of chlorine street as business and he's like why don't we go search everybody's room where all of y'all like fuck yes like correct idea Anthony yes and he did that so many times but so that was one where like for every scenario we were like hopefully

this happens but if not then Dougie will say hey why don't we you know and then if he still doesn't want to then we'll kind of like group mine like force this on him but even before we had a chance to suggest that he's like I know oh we'll just go to everyone's rooms and we exactly that we were like oh okay we're great idea what are you thinking like what are they looking for when they're casting this character because I while watching this I'm I'm trying to be like if I were Anthony

I mean he he's such a likable affable kind of go with the flow personality and I you know it obviously takes the right person but like do you what are they looking for when they're casting this because I don't think anyone could fit in this type of environment where they would be so like the way he was with Dougie yeah you know just so kind and just a cheerleader a lot of people

would have been more critical or mean or just you know you know you're going to find it out and he's like

you got it man just power through. Yeah keep it up. Like and so earn it like it my heart exploded in that moment when he like looked into my soul and was like keep it up like you know um that is above my pay grade in terms of all that went into selecting our hero and that's also you'll hear me refer to him as hero because it's important for all of us to to point out like he was never considered like the mark or the joke like he really was someone that from day one was revered and

was treated with that kind of reverence you know so um very important that he's never the butt of the joke right he's just sort of the the calm amidst this crazy chaotic storm but I think above all like they were looking for someone who was like willing to see the good and things like who didn't want to like delve too deep into stuff and was like okay yeah like I might my general

“outlook on life is a positive one you know um and I think that that's why Anthony was able to connect”

with not just Dougie but like so many other characters in this show and really like became the rock for everybody and yeah I'm sorry like maybe I would just be terrible at this job but where there are ever moments where you're like biting your cheek you're trying not to laugh because of just like the shit that your peers are saying you're just like fuck yeah yeah yeah I have to leave I have to walk out the Dougie's company retreat person oh Lisa Gilroy yeah

yeah Christine was her characters and I'm not at least a Gilroy she's like one of the funniest

people on the planet and yeah that was probably the moment so I would I was never worried about

breaking in the moments where I was supposed to be serious like you know Dougie Juniors on stage the the grandma's rocking out on that guitar real hard got the jerk off so like that's ridiculous and then again something I'm proud of improvising of like I want my sauce inside of you and I want my sauce inside of you in fact I did that for about 30 seconds so I just kept going you sir in the back I want my sauce inside of you and ma'am don't think I forgot about you I want

my sauce inside of you ma'am so those moments were like you know Dougie was the focal point and

really locked in but yeah like the moments where I'm sort of just you know amidst the rest of the ensemble and Lisa when she sang that song I was like oh my God keep it together what was the game which is like to just sang random things a little motions yeah they could do like each seminar could be its own episode if they wanted to because they were all so funny but we all had slips of paper underneath our chairs and they all said ridiculous things like my dog is my husband

“or I wet the sheets I can't remember what mine said but they were all stupid like that and then she”

just like yeah would be basically like now let's put some emotion on that you know and my dog is my

husband yeah and then have that stupid way of justifying it made no sense did Lisa come up at that game on the fly yes like they with all of the seminar speakers so they were all so Lisa was one of the few people that was on the first season if you remember from jury duty I forget her character's name but she was like the social media influencer slash slash tech slash yeah so it's gonna be the account for my dogs yeah I'm also an influencer but also part-time model model but also I also worked

in fashion and PR like so hilarious in the first season like when she came in mind you they also

did not tell us like who these speakers were it was just like we would show up we'd be like oh we

“have another seminar today and Lisa was there and I was like how is he not gonna know who this it you know”

but the vetting that goes into like him not watching a lot of media and stuff like that but yeah every seminar they put the responsibility of the super funny and talented performers to essentially come up with the concept of their seminar like what the bit would be which I thought was crazy I was dilating for hers the my name is Christine you're like this you're like yeah yeah and now because it's Dougie's it's Dougie's girl that's a great grandma's video

you were like this is my my my my dad's grandma but it's like a home videotap like clearly came from like the 90s I thought about this timeline one yeah figure that out well she's a grandma right she's your dad's grandma so at that point in time like this video was probably taken in the 70s she was already grandmother S yeah yeah so it was probably from the 70s your dad would have been like a young boy yeah so that was a formative moment for him to grow yes yes exactly that was his thank you

that was like you're a one-on-one or anything like the time was you know be 1945 like I don't think I don't care you don't know she lived a long long life yes in on the house her name was grandma Roslyn she lived a long life but also I will say the TV that monitor was not much bigger than like these monitors here and he was pretty far away from it too so what we see very like close up he's getting like you're still if that was the case you would it would track with Dougie like making a

bullshit video you know like to promote his house yes would that when we had we had backup plans like that for a lot of the things like what if he does say something like that or you know with me being in commercials like I was so concerned about him being like oh you're from like pizza thing whatever and my our backup was it like oh yeah my my homey like shoots this stuff and he like asked me to be in this thing I didn't think it was gonna take off like that but you know it's like

own it almost yeah so I guess yeah like these amount of money on it never does that

how much of your character development did you bring from her eggs my hero my king I love chef does he stone club me a stuck no he's got he's out he's out hashtag free chat yeah no he he he got out like whispering and he's got the nears now did you not see that oh he looks fantastic yeah he looks great and he just dropped like a

“country song so maybe pick it he's in a bit I don't I think he's talented yes he's talented”

and he is like captivating you just agree you know I you know I I you know that he's in that his bra show with Kate yes yes yes he is he's great enough yes he's no problematic moments for sure but you know but like don't we all at some point right Dougie Jr has his do have more empathy for chat having been Dougie now of course of course what is it like to be the son of a king you know yeah it's it's it's a tough see tough run to sit on you know okay but no I think like

hangs whatever I knew that there would be comparisons drawn but he wasn't like an inspiration

“for the character in any kind of way like I knew in terms of the backstory for Dougie Jr we knew that”

he had spent four years in Jamaica but that was it so of course like that would have an influence but I I oh and they asked us down the hall for this test there like if you happen to play guitar or play an instrument he was in a band in Jamaica so bring that in and I was like oh my guitar

and the sanger whatever so I came up with the backstory that he was second lead singer in his band

which became the jive profits and if that came up which I was hoping that that would elicit the question of like what is a second lead singer and I would say in this audition I was like well you know so we have our first lead singer and he like sings most of the words and then second lead singer pop scene with like that kind of stuff so that was like my built-in backstory but again not based on chat thanks or anything okay all the episodes out imagine can't give too much away but I I

what was it like because I'm sure at some point we're gonna auntie's gonna find out the truth no eventually yes eventually you know from the first one eventually there is a reveal that happens that's not that must have been a very exciting nerve-racking day going into that yeah yeah god I wish I could talk about like that day specifically and I can't yet but it was it was like

you know and in drawing in comparisons to like the first season but like we've you know built up

this world and now we're about to like I would think of it as like pull the curtain back as opposed to pull the rug out because the pulling a rug out from under one's foot seems mean and we were just like you know revealing the surprise but the way that Nick hat and one of our EP's put it like from day one and to get through to get me through like the little bit of like deception happening which is fair to say but that I knew that auntie's life was gonna change forever and I knew that

the world was gonna see what a great human he is and I knew that and as Nick hat and put it like we were gonna throw him like one great big surprise party and so framing it like that made it

a lot easier to tell this like super massive little white lie you know oh I got to ask you a

question um I forget the character's name but he put the fake proposal Kevin yeah Kevin and then aunt the the the the the the woman who's putting on the retreat the bargery yeah and she goes up to

“Anthony she's like I want to say you could just you should go like I got your back if you go or if”

you stay I got like look balls I don't know for you guys to like do I wish I could claim those balls those balls do not belong to me because I was I was like shedding my pants at that moment I was so you're gonna ask him what you know what I mean like I would be like yeah cover from I mean yeah I mean we were all terrified I think that they had a pretty good sense that he was you know had already made some connections and that he was happy to

I mean this temp agency flew him to Los Angeles for this job and it's a beautiful property Ocanian ranch that's actually the name of the retreat center and so I think he was like you know in spite of that like I'm here I commit he's also like I'm committed to do this I'm getting paid exactly for this job so I think that those were all factors that it was like you know risk reward but it was such a great moment of the show because it like legitimizes just the tight rope that you

guys walked which is so fascinating and like stating I'm in like I am in for this whatever this should is I'm here for it also not him being like also kind of a genius actor when the realtor from Malibu realtor's comes and he's like oh we'll just drop it off at your next open house yeah like I'm sorry you're hired let's fuck with him like he was just so game to do that stuff and like you know we saw just a snippet of what marjorie who's played by played by Blair Beacon

who's fantastic she talked about the the Malibu realtor's like ad nauseam it was we saw her just say like they had a cotton candy machine but it was okay and like the little tidbits but like almost every time we saw marjorie she was like sorry those fucking Malibu realtor so she really

“built it up and that's why he's like you know what it means he's like let's fuck with him”

and it's funny when that moment was happening so my room was adjoining with Jerry who played my dad and my room was one of the rooms we had sometimes they had a camera set up in there so we had what is it a the two-way mirror or whatever so we can't see him right so he and I were watching like little school boys of like that whole thing go down when like the Porsche pulls up and stuff and we're like oh my god what's he doing oh my god we're shaking here oh no you know so it's uh

he says it's one of turbo in it you say turbo that's also Nick Rutherford who is one of the

and I like grew up on their sketches so just a caring legend as well that's amazing man this is

this is so much fun the show is so great or really excited to finish it and see uh it all plays out but you're so good in it and it's a great show I really appreciate you giving us a little BTS of how this very fascinating show and franchises is made by him thrilled to be here you guys thank you seriously thank you for this is the only time that you're able to like do one of these because then you like you truly are fit us and you like you're now you're gonna it's like now you're the James

Marsin of the first season you know it's so funny I so I want to address an elephant in the

room I am wearing makeup that's not something that I normally do in my day-to-day life but I just this morning I did a little spot on good morning football I'm a big football yeah I'm going to use chargers chargers yeah your packers yeah yeah I have a connection to David Bhakti Ari if you

“remember oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah he emotionally he's doing okay that”

that's okay his older brother and my older brother were roommates and college oh no shit so we okay and we talked about a state yes a no no Colorado but but we my went to and my brother and his brother went to University of San Diego but anyway I came from speaking of commercials I was walking into the studio to do this thing and the guy doing security was like I know you thinking he's gonna talk about you know company retreat and he's like I'm in a chase commercial with right now

that's airing where a guy can't make up his mind on what to do with the kitchen so he's like I know you I'm like yeah you know company retreat and he's like you're gonna finish that kitchen

“so probably more from that honestly and I'm genuinely curious like because my look is so different”

yeah to some degree and in many situations I'll be able to hide in plain sight hopefully

amazing man well we hope to see more of you out there as the show takes off it's a it's such a good

show the show is called company retreat it's on Amazon Prime first five episodes out now watch him it's very good it's a great great show it's a it's a great to get in bed it's a feel good show man it's a yeah it's really funny I'm a tough laugh and I I was a real correct I was I was crying laughing yes many times yeah so it's a great show awesome Alex we really appreciate but I appreciate you guys thank you all right thanks for listening guys thank you

to our guests Alex Bonafir and therapy Jeff for contributing to our conversation we appreciate all of you do not forget the reunion of age of attraction is out tomorrow be sure to set your clocks your

“calendars your alarms for 4 p.m. Pacific 7 p.m. Eastern if you want to watch this reunion unfold”

for all you eager people out there you can listen to the audio version at its regular time on Wednesday we can't wait to hear all your reactions what we're talking about it on Thursday along with so many other topics we'll continue to cover the bat charat and Mormon wives and all the fallout that continues with the show maybe we'll get some clarity on the summer house rumors but until then enjoy the age of attraction reunion. Bye bye