E1102 - Age of Attraction Reunion | Exclusively on The Viall Files

to see the extended visual cut of this reunion. It's an incredible production. We really win all out to give you guys the best show ever. Plus, the expressions on these guys' faces are something you will definitely not want to miss. Welcome to the Age of Attraction season one reunion.

I'm your host Nick Vial. And I'm Natalie Joy. We are so excited to be here with all of the cast of Age of Attraction to unpack all of the burning questions that you have been dying to know. And we're not going to leave any gap on examines.

This is a show about regular people finding love outside the confines of societal pressure and influence. And seeing if their commitment to each other can survive in the real world. Some of our couples found that love was enough. Others realize that their differences may be too much to handle. This is the very first time the entire cast has reunited since filming.

And they are here to give us all the tea about their experiences on the show and life after committing. We're not. Teresa, as the stylist, who's best dressed today. There's only one answer.

Yes, I would say myself and then vanilla.

“I think it would be and then does anyone need some work?”

Yeah.

I think there's always for a moment.

I can give you guys my rates later. There you go. There we go. John, how's the royal family? Any drama to report?

No drama. I'm still working on my accent, but I'll get back to you guys on that. I'll tell you giving us the whole recipe, though. I want to describe the potato recipe, like what's the thinly sliced. I've got to make a mixture of crispy, a ton of extra-sharp cheddar cheese and salt.

You can always bake it in oven at 450. It's funny because we're baking in was it Fahrenheit or Celsius? Celsius. I didn't know what the temperature was. I thought I was going to burn the whole place down, but how good was it?

I mean, I think I was risking a heart attack. But it was really. Living quick, which spice girl is Victoria Beckham? Posh. Love.

Good job. Guys, and there was no Googling done. I've just gotten enough feedback and a roasting. I don't even have to look anything up.

Andrew, you've gotten a haircut?

No, I haven't gotten a haircut. New hairstyle. New hairstyle. New hairstyle. And a little tan.

Reben. Done in Florida, thawling out. Thawling out. And golfing. Yes, of course.

Vanessa, loving the pink, loving the pink lipstick. Fourth of July, has it been coming around often? Or, yeah, we celebrate Fourth of July. At least once or twice a month when we come to visit each other. Every, every, every time's a holiday.

Woo! It's coming along great. It's coming along. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Shut the book.

She's right. Right now with everybody in here and let them know. Let them know. He puts it down. Let them know.

It's good. We're, we're, we're it's much better. It's, he is so scary. We're, we're, we're, we're, we're crazy. It is crazy.

Hey, her shit's fire. Why do you think I put a ring on it? Okay. Oh, okay. Okay, okay.

We'll give you your moment. Logan, however, the optics today. The optics are great.

“I mean, I, I think I look good when you think.”

You look great. Optics are good. Everybody looks in? Yeah. I'm super great.

Jorge, you look in a dapper as ever. Thank you. Any, any new tattoos? I'm working on one. Okay.

Yes, 'cause I, you know, I'm sitting fiction. No. Okay. Is it AOA? You know, that's a good idea.

There's some AOA in a river right down there. Yeah. I think that would be a good idea. Hey, anything but a mountain, anything but a bear. No.

Oh, that was cool. Hi. You're looking stunning. Thank you so much. How are you feeling?

I feel okay. Okay. Okay. Why are you nervous? I don't know.

I'm just nervous. I'm just nervous. You're in good hands. Thank you. You're all good.

That's why you're wearing sunglasses. It was bright in here. Okay. Don't you think? I'm trying to take it out.

I'm trying to take it out.

“Just in case I need to close my eyes while everything's going on in here, you know.”

Okay. You ready to get going?

I don't want to keep the, keep the, keep the emotions out of it for a second.

Okay. First. Second. Derek, your skin is looking very smooth and shiny. Thank you.

Adding anything now. No. Lots of water. That's it. Yellow.

Water and staying out of the sun. Absolutely. You go to the beach. You got to bring it on. And Brala was a chair.

I said it up. Down there. All day long.

Leah, you've been flying anywhere recently.

No, I've been off. You guys, I'm a very flexible lifestyle.

“That's why I do leave on to New York on Sunday.”

I see. We love it a little bit. Well, we are very excited to have you all here. And I think let's just start with the question. I think everyone wants to know by a show of hands.

Who are the couples that are still together? Two, three. Two couples. We got Andrew and Libby. Logan and Vanessa.

I'll be honest. Logan and Vanessa. I didn't think you'd do it. It is. You're so full to see.

Let me tell you.

The show started after the show was wrapped.

That's one like real life came in. And that's why I wish people could have seen more of. Hmm, love that. Well, John and Theresa, you guys committed. Yeah.

At the. Let me do it. Let me do it. Definitely did. Tell where you feel.

That was real. That was real. I mean, I, I'm feeling good. John and I are in a really good place. And I think we still have like.

I still have some sort of questions that I would like some answers to. But I think for the most part, like, you know, we tried. It was, you know, combination of factors that led us to where we are today. But yeah, I mean, I'm happy with where we are today. I think we, I think it, it's a very good show of what we did have.

The fact that we are really on a good in a good place right now. Well, we will certainly want to unpack everything that's happened. Since filming and kind of really understand how we got to today. A little bit later, Logan. You so eloquently put it at some point in the season that the older people come with a lot of bags.

But in, you know, in fairness, there is some truth to that. And I think it's interesting watching it back. Obviously, now you know, I have an age difference. And I think I think everyone who, like, the trees says Vanessa, Leah, Andrew, Jorge, I think all of us that were dating younger people,

I think that's a very relatable thing, right? And I think a lot about this show really came down to, if you're someone who's lived some life, you've had some relationship. You come in with some scars. When you're dating someone younger, I know it was with Natalie.

“I think the big question is, like, what have you been through?”

Have you been to the ringer? Has your heart been crushed as well? Like, when you're saying I've been through a lot, does my partner understand? Quite honestly, I think that's a big measuring stick. Like, it wasn't until I learned about Natalie's past,

not that I was rooting for her to have bad relationships. But the fact that she could relate, I've been broken by another human being in past relationships. And if you're dating someone who doesn't understand that, that can be a huge disconnect.

With that being said, I just want to open up to the group. It's starting with Teresa. You referenced a lot of times throughout the show. Some very difficult relationships from your past. At your comfort level, can you just give us a little bit of insight

into some of the things that you have been through? And the impact that had on you as a person and how that helped or affected you in relationships specifically with John? Yeah. You know, we can talk about things that break you from relationships

and then just life itself, right? Because it comes in so many different forms.

“I think John and I had talked about that.”

He was really broken by his disappointment and baseball and everything. And so I think that was where we kind of could relate to that. Disappointment when you really are depending on something. You really think something's going to happen for you. And then without any control, it just falls apart.

And you're just broken by that. For me, obviously, I've lived many, many lives in some ways. And my relationships have been some good. So I'm not so good. I think from the very beginning, not to take up too much time.

But like, you know, I had my brother pass away when I was 18.

And that was my first sort of like relationship that just broke

without any expectation. Very sudden. And, you know, you get the rug pulled out from under you when you have this like relationship that you're depending on and all of that. And so that was number one. And then, you know, just like relationships that I had after I got divorced

that were, you think you have some, you really think like someone is being honest with you. And then you come to find out that, you know, they're lying, they're cheating. They're just not in it for the same reasons that you're in it. And so, yeah, it's been, it's been really hard to get over those. Before I came on the show, I really did work on myself and heal from a lot of those hurts.

that could be my person.

What about you Vanessa? You've obviously came in very vulnerable,

talking about your foreign engagements. Yes, my four Lebrons rings that I had. Yeah, so I mean, I've had some trials. I was a single mom at 18 years old. And I had to work full time and go to college and take care of my daughter.

And, you know, I had some relationships. And I really was kind of like a serial monogamous for a while. And I poured my heart into these relationships. And they didn't work out. And, you know, it was really disappointing.

But I don't want to let that like define me as who I am. You know, I'm pretty resilient. I've been really hurt, but I don't like to focus on that. And I wanted to look for something new and something brush. And I wanted to heal.

Were there parts while getting to know Logan that? Yes.

“Were there things you need to hear him say to make sure that he understood everything you've been through?”

Yes. And, you know, that's what I think about too. There's a lot of times I was taking like those past relationships. And I was projecting them onto him. You know, there's so many things watching it back. And the things I was saying, and I was like, that had nothing to do with him.

That was like my past, like coming back to get me. And, you know, insecurities about that sort of thing.

So, you know, he was the first one that really listened to me.

And we talked a lot. I mean, he knows more about me than anyone else. Even some of my girlfriends, you know, and the things that we talked about. And that was just really important in us getting close and having intimacy on a emotional level. Yeah. I'd like to touch on that just a little bit.

I mean, back to the comments that you made, you know, you didn't think we were going to work out. Nobody did. I think anybody in the cast you can ask everybody because of the bickering because of their arguments. A lot of people didn't think we're going to make it. But that's why, you know, one of the things that you saw and I just wasn't able to articulate my thoughts sometimes

because of some of those arguments and some of the things that happened on the show. I'm just, I was really, really trying to figure this woman out because I saw the essence of this woman who had been broken. But his gone through a pass that, you know, we're not going to talk about today. But I saw and heard the things that she's gone through and it led her to where she is today. You know, she's a business owner. She knows how she makes great money.

And I saw so much value in that and being able to get to pass those things in life. It's a lot of times people will go through situations in life and it makes her break to you. And what she has gone through, I wouldn't be able to do it. And that's kind of where I fell in love with her. I do want some clarification.

You guys are, in fact, engaged. I'm sure. I wasn't sure because will you do life with me? Is it will you marry me? I just wanted to make sure that I was at the accident engagement.

“So I think because he's young, he doesn't know the right terminology.”

I don't know. He forgot. It's different for the young ones. You know, he was nervous. But like, but I will say this. I watched them at the airport with no cameras.

And I watched Logan say goodbye to Vanessa. It was beautiful. He literally, you know, he, I think he was at the window. She was looking back. Where it was.

You know what I'm saying? And I watched that because I think Derek, we were there. And so I was just like, you know what? It was an honest connection because I, yes, you, they were bickering. But once again, he was fighting.

They were fighting for each other. And if you don't even see that, you don't have that. What do you, you know what I'm saying is empty. So y'all are.

“So I, I wanted to say something about, I think that a lot of times when we say,”

uh, maybe scars are trauma and relational baggage. I think there's a plus side that comes along with that too. And the plus side, I think is experience and knowledge. I think the experience and knowledge comes with the because I think, sometimes if you lose, don't lose the lesson.

The mistakes you may make in one relationship. You may take that for and say, I'm not going to make that. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more this. And so I think that it's, I don't, I don't look at any relationship

that anyone has as a failure. It's a lesson. And it's just moving on to find the, you know, the perfect situation where you and a person understand each other. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

I mean, I always say like, honestly when it comes to my past relationships,

I don't even remember like the happy times. I remember the sad times, but the sad times aren't like, I laugh at them now. There are things that we survived. I think when we are dating people who might be younger than us. When we hear things like, I want to throw caution to the wind.

I think sometimes that's the moment you want to just make sure. Yeah, let's throw caution to the wind. But like, you know, do you know what you're throwing to the wind so to speak? And I think sometimes that's the thing. I notice with Teresa and Vanessa and Leah and myself and those relationships

and Andrew a little bit when you're like having those conversations but like, you know, are we, do we know what we're betting on here?

But like, you know, we just want to make sure. So yeah, it's both a lesson, but we just want to also understand that our partner can relate. We have more to risk in some ways because we've already like gotten ourselves to the point where, you know, we've been hurt so many times.

It's like, like, the level of what you can tolerate is lower. You know, so I don't know. You're kind of like, not again. Yeah, you're trying to avoid the night again. Yeah, definitely.

How was it just watching it back for all you guys? I mean, obviously being on REITV is a bit of an experience. How's it been? We're here. Yeah, get the egg a little bit.

Okay. A little clearer. A little clearer. For myself. For myself.

Yeah. Get over the engine. We're okay. I think it's a very vulnerable thing. You know, to watch yourself on television.

I'm a very hard critic.

You know, so I've been very critical of myself.

You know, it's not easy. Yeah. Libby, how'd you feel? I think I feel the same way. I'm definitely going to be critical of myself.

You start noticing things. Everything about everything you've ever done. But I remember being in that experience thinking whatever anybody had to say about the way that I'm acting on the show. You don't know until you're experiencing it.

You don't know how you're going to act in front of cameras. It's very much a weird environment where you don't have your phone. You're not around your family. You're really isolated and you're trying to explore a connection with somebody. And that alone can be a scary experience.

But you're also trying to act yourself in front of the camera.

“And I think that for me, those two things together were really hard.”

It's totally valid. Libby and Andrew left the retreat with a 16 year age gap and a mutual love of Taylor Swift. That helps that their love story would just say yes. But with Andrew's daughters and Libby's bright future, it seems like we might have known their fate all too well.

That isn't until Andrew learned what a hard launch meant. It decided to manifest it anyway. And they say age gap relationships don't teach you anything. Okay. Well, how has that been for you, too?

It's been great. First of all, I just wanted to put it on the record that if it speaks to anything of how we're the experiences. My mother notified me I've actually been to three Hills of Concerts. That's how delusional I was.

I want to work backwards a little bit. You are one of the couples that's still together. It's was really fun watching you guys fall in love on the show. But how have you gotten to this point still in a relationship? What's the thing or things that you think has made it work?

I think that there's a lot that goes into being a long distance relationship. An age gap relationship.

“All those things that I think that you saw is really touch on the silly side of things on”

the show, but behind that off camera or sometimes on there were a lot of deeper conversations that were had.

A lot of ways in which we realized that we were compatible that I never expected.

And I really feel like he was able to meet me on the level that I was at. And we could kind of mutually benefit from our relationship where I feel like I have things to learn from him. He has things to learn from me. And I feel like that's been the biggest thing for us.

It's just being great communicators being open about everything. And honestly, I feel like I relate to him more in our relationship than anybody. I've dated that's my age. And I think that he kind of fills the same way again. I'm curious, Andrew.

I mean, I always talk about how in our relationship we are equals. And we really live that where the power dynamic is not off. You know, I come to her with as many questions looking for counsel, looking for advice as she does with me. I am curious with Libby, what are some things that you really go to her on?

And how has she been kind of just helpful with aspects of your life outside of just, you know, getting Taylor Swift, you know, knowledge and things like that? She actually has a lot of wisdom. A lot of people don't think everyone in this room knows. I sold my business at the end of last year.

And it was a weird thing for me. You know, it's 39 years old now. I'm kind of starting over. I'm in a transition period of my life. And she's been amazing.

You know, she's been there.

“There's been some days where I'm like, what am I doing with my life?”

What's next? And, you know, she's been that rock for me throughout this process. And, you know, I don't think that, you know, I almost didn't come out this week to LA. I was thinking about staying home. And she was, you know, there the entire time, like picking me up.

So yeah. Let me have you felt the age difference much being outside of the bubble. Honestly, no, I think I felt it way less than you would expect. I think the only times I feel it are all in refreshing ways. It's when I can have an open conversation with somebody about my feelings when it's when I need advice from somebody else.

A lot of different things come into play that I never expected that are all good parts.

And honestly, the only, I don't think anybody looks at us and is like, oh, these two have an age gap.

So I really forget the whole concept of this show. And the fact that there was a time where I was like, holy crap, this person is 38 years old with teenage kids. I'm 22.

I forget that that whole thing happened because we never are like, we're in an age gap.

Has anyone had an issue with your age difference either online or in the wild, so to speak?

“Yeah, so obviously online, I think that something important to note about this experience is that we didn't know each other's ages.”

Obviously, I look younger than he is, but I think that he thought there was only people 25 and older. So I remember feeling bad. I feel like I, I felt like I aged fish to him and I was like, I'm so sorry about that. As soon as he said, it was like, he didn't know six year olds were there either. Yeah.

I don't, right? I mean, I didn't like that comedy either by the way, Jerome, I'm going to hold you on that one. Like, oh, this dude is like, he's shit. I don't know he was here. He's my boy. He's like, Moses. He's a gentleman.

Like, he looked great. He looked great for six years. He looked great for Moses. He looked great for six years. For six years.

Right. I like that. Underhand of gum.

Yeah, you look great from being Moses.

I didn't know he looked at it. Right. I think he aged fish to everyone. Well, thank you from you. I'll take that.

That's a compliment. I'm curious, Libby and Andrew,

“what are any challenges that you guys have had to work through over the past few months?”

I would just say the whole long distance thing is a little bit of challenge. But I think we've both been really good about that. We have great communication. We see each other a lot. And honestly, we haven't really had many problems in our personal lives with people having things to say about

our age dynamic. Obviously, you're going to make assumptions if you know it. But I don't think he brings me around as like this is Libby. We have a significant age gap. Do you see it?

I think that his friends see me for the person that I am and his family. And same with mine, they've been incredibly accepting because they know me and they now know him. So I think that it's way easier to be like, okay, these are these two individuals. And this is a relationship.

Not like here's an age gap relationship. And what does that mean? And also like I was saying, it's important to note that we didn't know each other's ages. Had he been 38 and approached me and been like,

oh, you're 22. That's perfect. I would have been like. And maybe he would have thought the same if I was like, hey, Mr. 38.

Like, because it isn't normal for that to just be on the table and then move forward.

“So I think that that would have stopped us in the real world.”

Well, are y'all planning on shortening the long distance? Has there been conversations of what that might look like? Yeah, that's the next step for our relationship is trying to figure out the long distance thing and end that. So you would move to Baltimore? No.

We still don't know this. Okay, we're still occurring. Is there a clear path to where thinking Florida and just split time? At least I will split time between Florida and Baltimore. Okay.

Well Andrew, early on in the show, you said that you were used to dating younger. They were fun. They were crazy. Do you still feel that way? Let me's not that crazy.

I mean, she heard it here. No, not that crazy. She has, you know, some crazy comments from time to time. But she isn't, um, she is the best way. Yeah, in the best way.

That's a possible way. Okay. But no, she's really surprised me with her communication. You know, doing the long distance thing, I think towards end of the show, I was like really nervous about that because communication in my past relationships hadn't been that great.

And that's living in the same city, staying with each other, you know, multiple times, you know, throughout the week. So I'm like, how is this going to work with her being on the West Coast, to be on the East Coast? But I think that's where our relationship has been.

So strong as our communication is fantastic. Um, for someone that is 22, like, she's a great thing. 23 now. 23 now. That's great.

She communicates great reason that a lot too. Every birthday. Every number, I'm like, it's okay. It's okay. And that's better.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm actually 23.5. So, um, what do you know about younger? And by younger, I mean, they have me saying younger, younger, younger, blonde, younger.

The mother of my children, she's a burnette. She is older. I'm 38 on the show. 39 now. If I date a 32 year old, she's younger.

Like, what I have found, and this is, no, like, not going anyone that's older here. Like, any of the older women. What I have found dating closer to my age and in the 40s is it's, you know, typically someone that's divorced, someone that has kids. And we all have deal breakers.

We all have things that, you know, I've always said that I didn't want to be with someone

that has kids or someone that is divorced. And that's no knock on that at all. That's just like something for me that I just haven't been open to. And maybe maybe some people will be upset about that. But like, for me, that's just like one of those things.

So, what I do want people to know is I didn't go searching for a 22 year old.

And I very much thought.

And I don't know where, you know, I don't remember who told this to me.

But I thought the age semograph on this show was 25 to 55. Like, I really did.

“My shock in, I think you can see that in the promise room.”

Like, I'm thinking through what I'm like. Oh, don't you? Yeah, I'm like. (laughter) Um, but.

And what was some of your biggest insecurities or fears about the idea that that living was 22 and yet you are having feelings for her? I mean, I just had this preconceived notion. You know, my past two relationships, I did date, you know, women that were in their 20s. And it didn't work out.

So, I'm like, okay, here we go again. Like, are we going to be able to meet each other where the other person is in life? Like, are we going to be able to communicate effectively? So, I was just worried about that. I'm like, you know, I don't want to waste my time.

I'm getting older. I don't want to be in another relationship. We're not going to be able to make it work. We're not going to be able to communicate what we are at two different places in our lives.

“It's just, I think, you know, first, some of us older people, you can agree.”

Like, the last thing you want to do when you get up there a little bit. And he just is like, waste your time on something that's not going to work. Yeah. What is something about your relationship that you guys have found is just surprisingly easy. The long distance.

Like, again, I thought it was going to be much harder. And I feel like it's the healthiest relationship when it comes to communication. Really, actually, like, kind of all aspects of the relationship, but so healthy when it comes to communicating. And I thought it was going to be much, much more challenging being, you know, in a long distance relationship. I was genuinely surprised just by every facet, meaning compatibility wise.

I don't think I've ever been with somebody who had just the same outlook on every single thing as me, the same goals, the same, like, we see everything in the same light. And I don't think I've ever been in a relationship or even had, like, friends that were that similar to me. And I just remember we were so eye to eye on everything. And obviously, I really liked him when we were in Whistler.

But when we moved in together, I was like, wait, this is super weird. Like, we're doing all the same things. We just, even when it comes to, you'll see on my friends, we're like, Libby, it's not a roommate. It's a relationship, which very true, but those things can be detrimental things to a relationship.

“I think we both like things a certain way, we're a little OCD. And I don't think anybody in this experience.”

Anybody else in the world could have gotten me to the place that we ended up because he was only one to be, like, hey, listen. Let's, let's be a little bit more serious. I know there's something more to you because I've heard it. And so you're safe to open up to me, et cetera. And I think that we're both super lucky to have found somebody so, like, specifically perfect for the other person.

And I just remember literally walking on Sunshine and Rainbow's and butterflies being, like, "Wait, is this what it's like to be with somebody who's actually compatible with you?" Like, it was a crazy experience, honestly. Your friends also suggested that he should get Botox. Have you--

God. God. God. Why, though? Harsh.

You're not right. He's nice skin. He does. I didn't say it. She did.

My need of girl. That's just our relationship. Look at me and be like, "Why are you sitting like that? What are you wearing? Whatever."

And that's always warranted with me.

I love it. I'm like, "Thank you so much. You're the best that's true love to me." And also, even though she was super harsh, she protects me. And she's very much a realist.

So to me, that's a true friend. Somebody will clock you. Maybe not your man. So tell them that they need burps. We have that problem with her, too.

It's not the first time she's going off to somebody like that. But like we said, she had the headband on and she was ready to fight. You seem to go, Nina. We can't say that. Mike.

Mike. But yeah, that's, you know, that's sometimes we've all, we've all got that friend. But she defends me with her chest and we love her.

Andrew, you mentioned on the show that you had some nerves about holding Libby back, which is a feeling I really related to because obviously when now I got together she was basically Libby's age.

And there's this kind of thought of like, "Yeah, we have a great connection. You like me now, but are you going to feel the same way with me in three or four years?" You know, we came to find that we were surprisingly kind of on the same path in terms of like what we wanted for ourselves at the stages of life that we were in. I'm curious. How are you able to work through those insecurities and fears and how have you and Libby kind of figured out what the path that your guys are on?

I mean, I still have those fears, I think, from time to time. You know, for me, I have two daughters, there are teenagers at this point. I have went back and forth in my head like, "Do I want more children?" I definitely do, but I also think there's like a cut off for me. I'm 39 years old, I don't know if I want to be having a baby at 4647.

So it does our time frame in terms of like when she wants kids and, you know, where I would be open to having kids too. So I think that's, you know, still something that worries me a little bit. And I think I was even worried about it towards the end of the show.

You know, what if she wants to take the next 10 years to really focus on her career?

And she's 33 and once they have kids and at that point, you know, I'm 49. Yeah. Yeah. And then. That's all.

I mean, where are you guys on the same page in terms of that timeline? Have you guys talked about kids or what that looks like? Yeah. Like I said in the show, I probably not the typical 23 year old where I just want to go crazy experience.

“I've like, there is that part of it, but there's also the part where to me experiencing life is having a stable relationship with a person that's good for me and a family and being happy to me that's experiencing life.”

As far as kids and everything is concerned, that was a big conversation and a big part of the relationship. And I think you see me being like, "Oh, I like that he has kids, whatever, but it doesn't really show my kind of excitement about that after I processed it." I was like, "Okay, I really like that this person is a girl dad." It says a lot about him. It shows that he's more mature. There's definitely a certain responsibility that comes along with kids.

And sometimes when you're looking for a partner, you wonder, "Can this person handle kids with this person be a good dad?" And I was really refreshed to see that I already saw that in him and for me that was a huge green flag. And yeah, I think that we had to come to terms on the show with the fact that to be with me would entail having more kids and being aligned on that timeline. And that was one of the big conversations that was really hard for me to hear his reservations and his doubts about that because that's something that's super important to me.

I've always wanted to be a mom, but yeah, honestly, when I heard he had kids, it just made me take him more seriously and just see him as a better candidate.

And I think we are aligned on the timeline, meaning he can't wait forever. And I've always wanted to be obviously not at this age of mom, but a mom eventually and probably sooner than later, my parents had me on the younger side. They've been married for 30 years. They're an amazing example of what I want in a relationship. And so if I were to even have something that looks similar to that, I would be super happy.

“Well, we've wrapped filming almost a year ago, Ash, have you met his daughters?”

I have not. Why? Why not? So we're trying to figure out the long distance thing first. You know, the show, you're in a bubble. You know, it's all fun and games, you know, you're enjoying life. You're going to the pool midday on Monday.

It's a little bit different. Everything, since then, too, has felt kind of like the honeymoon phase for us.

It's, you know, we see each other once a month and we're in LA or we're in Florida or we're in Baltimore or we're enjoying ourselves and having fun. We haven't really been able to test our relationship in terms of like spending significant amount of time together in the real world. Doing our day today, getting up, going to the gym, going to work, coming home, eating dinner together. You know, I was very adamant about this on the show. I am super, super protective of my daughters. Like, I made myself a promise after introducing my daughters to one of my ex.

The only person that's ever met them, I told them unless it's going to be my forever person. And I know that I'm not introducing someone. I don't want them to see someone coming and out of their lives. It's not fair to Libby. It's not fair to my daughters. It's not fair to me for that to happen. So, you know, long story short, I want to see that we can move in together.

You know, that the relationship is headed to us getting engaged, spending the rest of our life together before, you know, we make that introduction. So it like it has to be an engagement before that happens. I don't think, no, not an engagement.

“I think that would be a little weird, you know, to be like, oh, hey, by the way.”

This is my fiance, but I think it has to be, I have to know. Like, I'm, I'm putting a ring on it. That's the direction that it's going. Do they know that Libby exists? They do. I mean, I am a father now, but I'm not like a father like you are a single father who's out there dating.

So like everything you're saying totally makes a lot of sense in terms of the sensitivity around it. Just to play devil's advocate, I mean, you're kind of saying two things at the same time. And one of that almost kind of sounds like I don't know how it's going with Libby. Almost. I'm curious, Libby, like, how does that make you feel knowing that like his reasoning makes a lot of sense.

But at the same time, are you internalizing that is, what does that say about us? Yeah, I mean, I think that there is an interesting element of this of the fact that it's a TV show. And I don't think I would be ever, well, obviously, the relationship is an a TV show, but it will be show an a TV show. And there's an element of judgment that's going to be made one way or another.

So for me, that's the only hard part is I don't want anybody in this family to see a little clip of me and make any assumptions. Like me in real life.

I like them not meeting you and only watch you on TV. Exactly. And just keeping that image of me in their mind before they got a chance to make their own judgment. Because like we said, that's it's a show four weeks doesn't summarize you as a person. You're a nervous self on camera isn't you as a person in your entirety. So there's that, but also I just want to say like I really respect the fact that he's mature enough to be like, hey, it's not appropriate for me to be bringing people in and out of somebody's life.

“And when there's kids in the picture, I think it's it's hard for me to talk about because I never want to overstep because that is somebody else's family that didn't ask for their life to be put on camera.”

And for them to be talked about to the public. So I just honestly and mostly respectful of his maturity to the situation. Have you met the mother of his children? I have not. Is that something that you're looking at doing at some point?

I mean, I think that was just boiled down to her. You know, she wants to, I, you know, I would offer that. You know, I did it, you know, the last time that someone met my daughters.

I, you know, did ask her, like, did you want to meet her first before I make the introduction to the girls.

But I'm going to leave that up to her. She's going to make her own decisions. I can't speak for her if she'll want to meet Libby. Okay. And I'm curious.

I mean, do you guys talk about and seems like it's still fairly early in the relationship.

“But like, do you guys talk about engagement at all?”

Or are we just focusing on closing the long distance and things like that? Yeah, I mean, as far as engagements concerned, like this whole show. This whole show thing is kind of a wrench in the plants. We've been on the low. So we both know that, like, we see each other as a potential partners, fouls, whatever.

But are we day to day, like, so we didn't call for the question. No, no, no, no, no. And also, yeah, there are those more important things about a relationship that you really need a test first before you are to get engaged of anything of the sort. One being living together for extended amounts of times.

Another being dating somebody who has kids and being a part of that. That's a whole other life that I haven't experienced. Okay. Let's take a quick break. And then we'll be right back to get into it with the rest of the couples.

Don't go away. If you enjoyed watching age of attraction and are interested in possibly finding love for yourself on season two of age of attraction. Be sure to go to age of attractioncasting.com to apply because your future love story could be made for you. This episode is sponsored by better help. Financial stress can affect us more than we know whether it's financial stress, relationship stress or work stress.

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And we're back with the age of attraction reunion. Well, vanilla and Jorge bonded over a shared love of God and a deep desire for commitment.

Sadly, these struggles in their relationship forced it to an abrupt and disappointing halt. So how are you to do into that? Fine. Okay. And we're cool.

All right. I still love her.

“I mean, for me personally, I think, and I always think, vanilla is an amazing beautiful woman.”

And I think the world of Rishino is that. We talked after the show. There's nothing but love her. You did. So y'all had a moment after the show.

And whose decision was that? Who reached out? We know reached out to me. Okay. What was that feeling of wanting to reach out to him?

I think after leaving the show and coming back to real life. It was just kind of weird to just act like, you know, that whole connection didn't exist. Like, but I just didn't know that person. So I reached out. And, you know, I missed him.

I wanted to, you know, try to see if we can try to make it work. And yeah. It was very disappointing to see you guys break up because at the time, I know you guys were very excited about each show. There was certainly you vanilla had a lot of hope and optimism about the potential.

Where do you think ultimately things went wrong?

“I think for me, like, we were aligned on my abstinence.”

Our communication was definitely a huge factor. Yeah, I think Emily, those two things. But Emily, the communication. And what do you mean by the abstinence side of things? I think you can see on the show it kind of just was blurred a little bit.

Like, obviously, Jorge was a little bit confused on, like, worth abstinence. You know, lied because of the romantic moments we had and stuff. And we didn't really, like, have, like, deeper conversations about that and, like, what the boundaries were. I guess looking back, you know, because a lot of that, a lot of that moment was about you telling Jorge that you were celibate. And just hoping that, you know, you would get, as obviously as you would hope,

to get, like, a, I want to respect that. I want to support that. And it didn't seem like, again, Jorge, you really understood what she meant by celibate. Or maybe you had some of your own assumptions, and that seemed to lead to some communication problems. Actually, I think so, I like the fact that she said abstinence because it's nice.

It's absolutely, but I, I, I did not have a problem. So, one of the things is this, my connection with Vinau was very real, very serious. As I, I told Joel, and I, I was very protective of her. And when I say protective of her, not only protective of her from the outside, but protective of her from me, I'm not going to do anything to try to offend or hurt her.

That's, and so, and everything I did in every way, I tried to handle it. I tried to handle it with care as best I could, so that she understood. And I understood that when she said it, when we first talked and she said it, so then my thoughts went to, okay, we'll Vancouver. We're going to do a lot of talking, because we're doing nothing else. But like she said, some of the romantic moments confused it for me.

“And I think, when I look back at it, I always say, when your communication is key for me, communication everything,”

you're going to hear me say it over and over again, because as in my profession as Lord, most times people misunderstand each other and they don't, they'll be talking apples and oranges.

And they go apart because they never really understood.

And I think that that happened with Fino and I because, honestly, if you look at it, she was saying, she kept asking me, what do you, or what do you think about it? And I kept telling her, I don't know. And I think that set her off because it made her think that, well, that's not acceptable. And so when I look back at it, I said, you know what, it wasn't her was me on the communication tip,

because I should have said, well, listen. And when we're talking, I want her to say, see, everybody in Vancouver was, I don't know. Because I don't, I don't know if we're going to be together. I don't know if we're going to continue in relationship. I don't know if there's a bunch I don't know.

So the way I felt about it was, well, first off, I'm a little confused. I always think that as a man, I need to step forward and say, okay, so what does actually your absence mean give me a blueprint. And I didn't do that. You know, I assumed that when she said, absolutely nothing.

And so then when we do stuff, I'm like, okay, this is, this is not absent. So maybe it's negotiable, maybe it's something you're struggling with. So that would be, I'll take the wrong from that because I don't believe in, I'm not big into a point in the figure is that let's look at it, collectively and see what we can do to better communicate.

And I think as I said then, it was a communication thing.

And it could have been improved and I always take my responsibility.

I'm curious for now, obviously, in today's culture, hookup culture is pretty prevalent.

Has your relationship with Jorge and how things unfolded? Has it giving you a different perspective of how you communicate your celibacy going forward? Yeah, definitely. And I think like coming into this experience, like outside of this like dating situations like this have been easier for me to avoid.

Like, I'm not, you know, I've never lived with a guy before.

I'm not putting myself in these types of temptations. But, you know, coming into this experience, I really wanted to fully give myself into this process and really see where it goes with Jorge. I was literally like obsessed with him. So, yeah, there are times when I'm literally living with someone that I had

extremely strong emotion and connection to, also really physically attracted to. So, yeah, like, you know, there are times where maybe I fell short a little bit, but maybe going forward just be a little bit more like, you know, stern about my boundaries, but like I said on the outside world, I'm not putting myself in situations like this.

Okay. There was also a big moment throughout that I think might have been right before your breakup, the something happened with the streets of Vancouver. But now I'd like to kind of have you clear that whole situation up and get into kind of the details of it all just because the show didn't.

So, can you tell us what happened in that? Yeah, I mean, I guess Jorge can say his part too. But, for my experience, I thought there was just like a random guy on the street and just yelling over like, yo, you talking blah, blah, and obviously like Jorge turned around and it's like, oh, like, mind your business or whatever.

And then they're both going at it and it comes to a point where, you know, the guy's walking behind us, he has his skateboard in his hand. And, you know, having Jorge are still like, you know, going back and forth about it. And it starts to get to a point where it gets escalated and, you know, Jorge's, they're talking about fighting each other.

And I think for me in that moment, I think that was my first time seeing Jorge

seeing Jorge like upset. Like I saw like a different side to him. And it just, you know, it was different for me and I, yeah. What about that? Because we had an opportunity to talk with you prior to now.

Yeah.

“And I think, you know, it's an interesting conversation, right?”

Because on one end, I think as guys, you know, we want to protect our ladies. We want to, you know, be there for them. It's, I feel like my wife expects that of me as well. But there are also situations where it's like, you know, you use the phrase, I wanted to diffuse the situation.

And then the kind of the question is, you know, how do you go about diffusing the situation when we talk to you before, you suggested that when it, the things first happened, and I don't want to put words in your mouth so correct me from wrong, that you felt like Jorge could have done something different to diffuse the situation. And in fact, you almost felt like he escalated it to a point.

Can you elaborate that? Yeah. I definitely still feel that way. I feel like, you know, at that point when they were just still like, you know, arguing with each other, I felt like we could have maybe just like ignored that person

and kept walking. I felt like it didn't need to get to a point where they're both wanting to like be physical with each other. Also, for me, like I was uncomfortable in that moment because, you know, this person could have had like a gun, could have had a knife, could have done something. But also, it was just like a random person, right?

Like that's not someone we knew, so it could have been avoided in my opinion. And he was yelling from afar at y'all to start? No, absolutely not. How come I love it here? Yeah, so, well, one, I mean, when we know the first call me,

“that's what I'm a little surprised, which is said, because she said, when we first talk,”

she said, I understood that you were protecting me after talking to my mother and her friend. But so the situation, it's still clear in my mind. I don't forget that kind of stuff. And one of the things I said to Vinelle is, have you been, are you, I've been in the streets, I've come from the hood.

So I know a situation when I see one. And what happened is, so we're standing waiting for the light to change. And actually, we're joking. And so I said something to her like, you crazy girl. And so we're laughing.

And this guy comes up and says, what the fuck did you say to me? So first off, you're behind my woman, right? You're saying that to me. So what I said to him was first of all, I'm talking to her. Second of all, you've been to watch how you talked to me.

And I made it very clear, because I'm not,

there's not, I've never known any time when I've been on the streets

that someone who poses a threat goes away by saying, can you please leave us alone? No, that's not going to happen. So I wanted to let him know, I'm not having that.

“So when I said that, he said, yeah, that's what I thought.”

That's right, he keeps talking. Okay, that could have arrested the light turns. So we get ready to walk across the street as we're walking. Vanilla is behind me, which is a problem for me, right?

So that's what I'm like, oh no, he's not, I'm not going to take a chance

with this man hitting her over it. It's not going to happen. And he kept walking. So I said, then they're going front of me, right? And then I turned that said, I'm going to tell you one time,

and one time only, walk away. And he's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. And I said, I will bust your ass. I'm not playing with you. And I wasn't.

I'm not, I'm the one thing you can, I don't mind taking responsibility. I'm going to defend my woman or any woman in my life. Here it is. I don't, it's not, it's not negotiable.

So I told him that. And so then when he said something else, I just stepped towards him. And then he walked away. That was, that was the end of it.

Because I want him to know, I'm not, I'm not playing with you.

Now, could have had a gun, could have had a knife, could have got hit by a car. I don't care. I'm not going to let you pose a threat to my woman. Period.

What you went, I do with, so be it. But you're not going to pose a threat to my woman. Period. But I don't think I would say that guy was directly behind me. Like there was a good amount of distance between us.

But we're walking. I think we see it differently. I think we see it differently. I think that I'm pretty well aware of where I saw him. And pretty well aware of what he had in his hand.

I don't think anymore of the thing. As an attorney, I know I'm not going to just go around. Hey, let me start a fight with this random guy. No, I don't care about that. I don't care about that.

What I care about is, if my woman is in there,

if you pose a threat to her, then you,

“that's what I'm going to take care of that.”

That's just the way I felt. With that said, I understand if she felt uncomfortable, and that doesn't work for her, then I respect that. No problem. But what I said to her on the show,

I stand 10 toes down. I'm going to do it every time in every situation. If we walk out of here today and we're all walking together, and some man poses a threat, I'm going to step to him. Period.

I am curious, I just opening it up to the group. I imagine this is a fairly relatable topic for both men and women and relationships. And there seems to be kind of a gray area of like, hey, do I need the protection in this moment?

Are you, or are you puffing your chest and showing off? Are you, are you defusing the situation? And the best possible way, because it seems to be like almost a lot of gray area. And I'm just kind of curious what any of you have to say about it. Yeah, I mean, for me, I think as a man, you're just protected by nature.

You should be. And if you're with your partner, and someone poses a threat, whether you know what they have or don't, you're going to make sure your personal is protected. And I get coming from different backgrounds,

or hey, and I have a similar one. For me, like, I relate to it, like if someone's out of pocket and you're right, you don't know what they have a knife or a gun or anything like that. But I'm not going to let you walk behind me, because I don't know. If you have something on your right, and if you back down,

typically in those situations, they do actually continue to get aggressive.

“So you have to address the situation and say, hey, you got to go that way,”

or it's a problem. And typically a lot of times, like it happened within, they'll just walk away. So for me, like, I'm the same way if I'm with my partner, anyone that I'm protective of, and someone's making us feel uncomfortable, I'm going to get rid of the situation.

Trisa, I feel like you have a light. You're listening intently. I can hear your, I can see your behind me. I want to ask you. But I just feel like I understand that if that person was right next to us.

There was a distance between us. The way I clarify distance for people was close to, like, like, from you to now and now, you to make, like, how, because everyone's, I feel like this distance is like, I think, like, how close was that?

I was like, like, a distance from, like, here to, like, over there. Like, we were walking. That guy was walking. It was far. It was, it was a distance for you how far was this man?

That is absolutely. We were, we were, we were. We were a stop. We were stopped at a light. So we were waiting to walk across the street. So he wasn't right behind.

So he was walking. So he came, we're standing and he comes up. So he's going to land right now. So he comes up from behind. Something to me. Now, we had Wrangler and said,

“same thing, you need to get to step and he said that to him.”

So when he comes up, if he's back there, why do I care? I don't care if you're back there and you're just yelling in souls. But if you're here, that's a threat. Listen, people can, I'm just going to tell you what I saw.

And what I know, and it's like, as if you yesterday, I don't forget that type of stuff. You know, obviously, you guys aren't together. It doesn't seem like there's going to be a reconciliation. How? And are you trying to get me?

I mean, they said they could remember it. I mean, listen to this. Is there a chance you guys can get back together? Let's go on. Let's go on.

Keep the schedule. But I am this curious and like, how are you in question to both you? Like, in a future situation,

I think we can agree on that. That we're agreeing to disagree. But in those situations that all couples have, how are you guys going to work through those relationships, as opposed to just getting up and quitting?

I'm not. That's, I mean, the athlete, I don't quit on quit anything. I'm going to work through it. Part of it to me, like I said,

I always keep going back to communication

because I think that if we understand, then it's like, I was telling, I was telling the guys. I said, if you're in a relationship with a woman,

“and you and her say, we're on the same team, right?”

So we're never against each other. So then that means that no matter what happens, if someone feels disrespect, if someone feels misunderstood, instead of going, coming and going against each other, why not get the benefit of that and say,

what did you mean by what you just did or what you just said? Because it made me feel this way. And then it gives me the opportunity to say, nah, that's not what I meant at all. And I think what I, like we said,

when I said earlier about things you learn from relationships, when I was younger, it would just be a person yelling in their opinion. And so to me, like I had to open up. And the Bible says, a fool delights and airing

is on opinions, a wise man seeks to get in understanding. So rather than yelling back and forth, no, I learned from young, that, okay, no, you know what? I'm going to listen to you.

I'm going to let you talk until you're done talking. And then I'm going to say, you're done. And then I want to respond to you, so that you know that I heard you, and I'm responding to you.

But if it doesn't work, it doesn't. And so, but when I, if it fails, I don't go, oh, it's cheap, it's great. No, I go, okay, so how could I handle it better? Is there something I could have said differently?

Because going forth, if I'm going to go further in a relationship, I don't want that to happen again. Then how did you feel like he listened and then responded in your communication? I feel like when we had the conversation,

I think in that moment, we both were a little bit more like high end and neither of us were really truly like listening to one another or trying to understand each other.

“I think at that point, it was more so just,”

or at least like neither of us were like resolution focused. I don't think. You said that you felt like Jorge talked at you and not with you. Do you still feel that way?

Like now? Like looking back at those conversations. Yeah, yeah, during those conversations, I think so, right? Because I think he was using words like,

I have experience in this and I've been through this and I'm from here. And in those moments, I felt like he was talking at me. During the show, you had mentioned that your family or specifically your parents didn't want you

date anyone older than 40. 10 years old. 10 years old, there was something like that. What was it about Jorge and your relationship that made you so willing to ignore that

after learning about his age? Um, I think at that point, I was already obsessed with him. So that age literally did not matter to me at that point.

I was like, he could be eight years old and I still be with him. Of course. I mean, you really had those strong feelings,

“which I think makes us so sad that it didn't work out.”

But what were some of the things that he brought to this relationship that was different for you? Yeah, contrary to belief, I liked how dominant. I liked how dominant Jorge was.

Um, and also like behind closed doors,

he was just so sweet to like all the girls to always

like checking up on everyone, making sure everyone's good. Um, always the person that all the guys had come to talk to. Um, when I was like talks to the girls about him,

they all have been great things to say. And like I really liked that. Um, and like he said, he was very protected for me and I felt safe within at the time. Um, and I could tell that Jorge wasn't someone

that like lets his guard down easily and opened up easily. And, you know, he did that with me. So yeah, I looked as close as he found him. Is there a party you that regrets walking away that day? Um, I wouldn't say I regret walking away,

but I think, um, that day, if I could have communicated better that day. Yeah, for sure. Is there any chance that you guys reconsider this relationship, you know, you're seeing each other?

You know, the guys are looking great. You guys want to say to each other. I think that the connection, I don't, there's no way in the world you can say that the connection

isn't going to always be that.

I don't believe that. I don't believe that. So when I saw the notes, the same feelings that came right back up. I mean, I, I felt,

once again, protective of her, I felt. And which is for me is weird because normally when I meet a woman, it's like I'm processing information, like to try to project how you will be.

With vanilla, it was like, yeah, I kind of, it's kind of like, you know, something about her. So, and it was different. And I stepped out of my comfort zone,

and there were things different that vanilla and I didn't have them coming.

I like her. So, but it refers to your question. You never know. I never say never. Because, you know,

you never know what happens.

We saw each other. We hugged. We asked. Yeah. You know.

[laughter] Do you? Well. That being said. That being said.

That being said. I feel like this.

“At the very least, we're friends for like,”

I told her that there's never a time if she ever needs to call me. I got her. If she ever needs anything, I got her. Like, I'm, it's the same way.

And even though she doesn't, remember being a Hoover very well. As far as we protect dinner, I'm still going to protect you. And I'm just playing.

You know, kid. But I have it. [laughter] Is there anything you want to say? To hooray.

No. I, I think I feel the same.

Like, I'll always have love for hooray.

I'll always cherish, you know, this experience we have together. Yeah. I do want to give you an opportunity to address any feelings you might have about

the questions that our people are having about when you chose to communicate to vanilla that you had children. Oh, thank you so much. [laughter]

I absolutely hate action. I am very, very proud of my children. I speak about them all the time. It's not something that I would hide from anyone. And I did not want to hide it from her.

And it wasn't hidden from her. And if I would have followed my gut, and I'm just going to say, I wanted to tell her in the third day. And that's what I, what my plan was.

But I couldn't.

“If I would have followed my, the way I believe,”

I should have told her right then. The thing about it is how I justified it in my mind was, I'm not going to lie to her. So when she said that question, I said, so you want kids.

I'm not going to lie. So for all you people out there saying, oh, he lied. [laughter] I did not lie to her.

But that is something that I take very serious. And when I shared it with her, and Benel said to me, so listen, where I'm at is, if my man was children then I'm down to have it.

But if he doesn't, then I don't care. So I think both of us are in a line with that, because my thing is people, I've read people all your six of you who have kids. Man, I've a chinoid kid.

Shut up. So I feel like that would be something we determined if we stayed together. But I was definitely not hiding my kids.

That was never something I would do.

I think all of the men on here were all proud of our children. And I appreciate you for allowing me to address it. I think it's obvious that you're proud of your kids. I think it's just what's interesting

because there's so much of you guys's relationship about the communication where you guys struggled. It's interesting to hear how like mentally you had told yourself, "I want to turn on the third date. I want to turn on the third date."

And we had an opportunity to watch the promise from you too. And when it all went down, Benel was like, "I don't even know if you have kids or if you want kids." And she asked two questions back to back. You answered the second question.

And it's just kind of fascinating. I wonder if you reflect on that. You know, that mentally you were like, "I want to turn on the third date." And then you had this expectation or this question that you asked.

And then all of a sudden she's like, "You don't have kids." And you're like, "Oh, she doesn't, she's not worried about that." Do you think sometimes being kind of like that strong, minded person that's strong will, will person where like you're actually not listening

to your partners much as you think you are because like she asked the question and you were so like committed to telling her on the third date rather than when she asked about it.

“No, I think there's a more stubborn side of me.”

It didn't have to do it, Benel was the fact that I wanted to tell her third date and it was prevented. So you're not going to tell me when I'm going to tell her when. You're not, no one's going to tell me.

And less Christ comes down. That's the only person who's going to tell me, "Hey, you can need to do this and I'll do it." So if you tell me, I have to do something. I'm not going to tell her when I feel it's best.

So when it, but in hindsight, because of the way it looked, the optics of it, I would go back and say right in the promise from Teller right there because I didn't believe going into the promise room as much as I'll give you something that no one knew.

Like I turned 60 down in Whistler. So I was 59. I did not want to say 60. I was like, "I sound old." [laughter]

I did not want to say 60. I was like, "I don't want to say 60." And they were like, "You're 60." And so one of the things that I have struggled with part of the reason I even came on the show

is because I've never believed that age is a factor. And for me, I was age conscious because when people asked me, "Hey, how old are you? I look 40. Are you right?

You're right. 40." Okay, relying. I'm pleased. Watch yourself now.

I don't mean to come for you. But I just felt like that was something that used to always bother me. But one of the things when you just asked me, "Yes, if I had to do it all over again,

I would definitely do it different." But the stubborn side of me was like, "No, I'm going to tell her, I tell her." And that didn't have to do "Vinnell." Like so.

Yeah. Okay, I'm going to say. Okay. I'm glad we got the question for both Jorge and Vinnell.

With this show being about this age, really matter when it comes to love. Vinnell, last time we spoke with you and talked about your breakup with Jorge, you were pretty strong by saying,

“"Actually, I think our age difference ended up playing a role”

in our relationship ending." As you sit here today after seeing Jorge, did you still feel that way? I would say so, yeah. Okay.

But also a lot of the things that played in role and us not working out was just our communication. Well, part of the age difference played a role in the breakup. I would say like what I said earlier, the part of what I felt like he was talking at me

or maybe the way we were understanding each other. Okay. There you go. Okay. Jorge, how do you feel about that?

I don't think that's an age thing. I think that's once again a communication style. And you've asked me before, you asked me if that has come up before. And I think that just the nature of my profession,

sometimes I can be in a interrogating, folks over across examining.

So I have to always check that.

And so if ever my partner says, "Well, I don't feel like you're talking to me, "I feel like you're talking to me." Then that means I have to pivot and change the way I do it. So that they don't feel that way.

One of the things I share with me was if I had to do it all over again, it should have been a stop and say, "Okay, what work for you communication wise?" And what works for me because me,

I'm going to be defensive if you come at me like that. And what's work for you so that we understand that. And I think it would have made it a little bit more easy. So if she felt that way, I think that any time you're dealing in a relationship

as a man with a woman, you have to be open to their feelings. And their feelings are 100%. There's no, you can't say, "Well, your feelings are always valid." So then if she says, "Well, I feel like you're talking at me."

That was the sentiment.

“When she said, "That's how she felt later."”

But if you tell me, "I feel like you're talking at me," "Well, then I'm going to stop." And pivot and say, "Okay, my bad. Let me address you a different way." Is it hard to hear that Vanel feels

that your age plitorola? No, because I don't think it did. I'm not worried about that. No, no, it was me, man. Would you say it?

Before we move on, do other of you have anything you want to say to one another? I say that, but no, you know that our connection is dope and deep. And we have very strong feelings for each other.

And I'm never going to say nothing because you never know what might happen.

And you and I know, just every time we be in the hallway, we're like, "Well, you know." So I'll leave it that open. I'll leave that as a chapter open. And that as a book open.

But you know my feeling is extremely strong for you. And you know our connection is on another level. [laughter] It is on here, you know. Yeah, it's on another level.

[laughter] I'm good. Um, I mean, I would say I agree with, you know, what you said, like, you know, the connection to have for your real and deep, but connection like that doesn't just, you know,

go away that fast that quickly. Like, I literally, in my mind, you were literally like my husband. Like, there is nothing else, you know? Um, but yeah, I don't know.

Well, if you ask her out on a date, just let us know. [laughter] Yeah, I'll text you. I'll text you. But I, you know, one thing I just said to her, I don't want to belabor the point, but I said to her,

that I think a lot of times, people act there as love as being in love is a right, and it's not, it's a privilege. 'Cause it's where three quarters of the world are lonely. So whenever you get the opportunity to have a deep connection

with someone, you gotta make sure that you exhaust every possibility.

Due to Derek's incredible skin care routine.

[laughter] He and Fifer may not have looked at, but they were, in fact, 20 years apart in age. While they ended the journey with supportive parents and a commitment of staying together,

life off camera, hold them in different directions. Unfortunately, Fifer is celebrating her birthday in Japan and a sad to not be here, but Derek, can you explain what happened post-filming? Yeah, I think some of the things that showed up

while filming, some of the questions she had or some of the concerns about her moving across the country and giving up her life, friends, and all that. I think honestly, I mean, looking at it now, I think that just, it was just too big.

It was too much. When she got back to her normal life outside of the bubble,

“I think that there was probably some influences there, you know?”

What do you mean by that? Obviously, there's an age gap. So her friends are probably for the most part much younger than me. Right? And probably not married, probably single.

So rather, you know, the conversations she's having are influenced by a little bit of them being selfish because they don't want to lose their friend and it's probably something that they haven't, you know, experienced yet.

And I get it like looking at it like, well, you went away and you found this guy and you're going to pick up and move your entire life for just him

That's crazy.

And so I understand where she probably was influenced

and I was concerned about it, you know? And I was one of the things when we talked and then Hoover, I tried to address it as much as possible, but there was also this fight for was a bit reserved. Like, she's just was like, I want to be present in the moment.

I don't want to think about that. And for me, it was like, well, I mean, we have to talk about it. Do you think Fifea painted an accurate picture of what her life in lifestyle was back at home? Well, you ready?

That's good. Why are you laughing there? Oh, man. So a certain degree. I think what about the degree

that maybe she didn't.

“So, yeah, I think that her living with her roommates”

probably like college campus, sorority's grow style. I mean, I was asking straight. Like, you told me offlock. I would love to hear you tell the story

about how you found out where she lived.

All right. So what is this? Let's go after she came to Dallas. Obviously, we broke up a few weeks after that. And, you know, we had a conversation.

She sent me a message. I left some things there. So can you mail them to me? And I'm like, yeah. And the way I am, she sent the message.

And I would like packed them up with the 15 minutes. I'm like, I'm whatever. I don't want to think about it. But I looked at her address. And, you know, how you can settle, like, look in.

It's something else. Sounds probably. I'm not psychotic at all. [ Laughter ] It's something else.

Sounds probably. I'm not psychotic at all. It just happened. I was just, you know, just curious. Just curious.

[ Laughter ] It's nothing wrong with you. Nothing wrong with being a little bit enthusiastic. I've, like, looked at it. It's like, I always am.

Yeah. So I, um, I zoomed in. And it was like, fraternity being sorority houses. Like, on the same block. And then I was able to piece together.

Like, oh, she did say she lived with, you know, more than a normal amount of roommates. Right? So, like, okay, so she probably lived in a sorority house. And, yeah, looking at them like, well, shit.

Like, that's something that I probably needed to know. Yeah. Because I can tailor, as much as I can. I can tailor my conversation to, like, this is probably what you're going to get.

Like, this is going to seem insane.

Like, you're basically still living, like, a college life, you know.

And now you're, essentially, you're going to go and be with a man that's taking care of a five-year-old. You know, that's a lot. You know, if she's telling the school or just living that life, so. I don't think you can't live in a sorority house if you're not still in school.

So, in five years of defense, she's not living in a sorority house.

“I think she just has maybe roommates that were friends from a sorority.”

But, um, I don't think she's still in school. She's graduated. Okay. Yeah, she's not still in school. Okay.

I know that, so yeah. Do you ever conversations about you going to stay with her and visit her in Seattle? Yeah. When she's in Dallas, we talked about me coming in visit.

And she just, you know, was pretty, you know, Adam and like, hey, I'd rather get like a hotel. I mean, I stay with her. And which I wasn't, I mean, I'm 40, 43 at the time, 44. I'm like, yeah, I mean, I'm a grown man.

Like, I'm not going to burden your, you know, your roommates. I get it. I want to be totally respectful of their space as well. So I'll make sure they were good and I'll get us a place.

So she had, you know, some reservations are probably should ask deeper questions than like, okay, I get it. And I'll definitely make sure that that's taken care of and everyone's, um, everyone's happy with, you know, and I don't want to inconvenience them.

But the fact that you're randomly bringing it up like,

“is there something else that you're thinking about deeper?”

And I feel like that was just, you know, a part of it. Like, the list of things that we're probably just racing through our mind. How long did you guys date for our post filming? Month.

Month. Month. Yes. Yes. She came to Dallas about a week and a half later

from a birthday. And I mean, things were great. You know, we had a, a great time with, with some of my friends and family. And she met my mom in my, my mom's husband as well.

Did she ever have a chance to meet your kids? No. No, for me, the way I was looking at that next three months, you know, even some of my friends say, I mean, my friends had questions to like, I'm not,

I don't want to just sound like it's totally on the fight for like it. It was definitely question marks and it's to how this looks. And I just told them like, let's just see what the next three months look like. Because that was living in a bubble. Now we live across the country.

And so this is a whole new phase of dating that we're about to go through and experience and see, you know, do we like talking on the phone?

Do we stay connected that way or we just see each other once in a month? Or, you know, like, it was, it was a lot that was unanswered that I wanted to see before ever going down that path. And for me, meaning my kids is,

I always allow the mothers first, like,

we'll sit down and have a conversation with a person dating just out of respect for you. And that's always work. I haven't had people meet my oldest husband. You know, two girlfriends down on it. You know, he hasn't. He's met one.

And so I'm extremely protective of that because as Andrew said earlier, I don't want to set, you know, that culture like in our household

“that, yeah, that's what this lady and, okay, she's gone and here's another one.”

During filming, when you met her parents, she seemed visibly nervous. She was very uncomfortable, very anxious. You, you know, tried to scoot her close to you, console her. She actually didn't have her in her way for you.

Can't wait for me to run. Can't wait for me to be, yeah. What were your feelings then and watching it back? Are they the same or have they changed? Well, I'm watching it back because I was there with her

and I know what the night before looked like and how nervous she was.

And I always try to take into consideration my age

and I know that I'm feeling, okay, she's 23 years old, right? And her relationship with her parents is a lot different than my relationship with my parents, right? So I understand the concerns. You're still getting to know me and trying to have that conversation.

And you may have honest with things about just your life that you may not have talked to your parents about at that age, right? So you're going to present this new relationship. How are my parents going to receive it? How, what are they going to say to him?

You know, and how is it going to influence me?

“Because I think at that age, you're probably still,”

you know, depending on the circumstance we're growing up, you're probably still pretty connected and influenced by your parents to a certain degree. So I think that she may have had some concerns there. You know, every relationship that ends doesn't necessarily mean

it wasn't beneficial to us or that we couldn't learn something from it. And I thought it was really interesting watching it back, fight for a reference to multiple times previous relationships and toxic boyfriends from what we've learned of you, Derek. You seem like a pretty solid stand-up guy.

Thank you. And I'm just curious, as you reflect on a relationship that didn't work out, what role do you feel like fight for played in your life and what did you learn from that relationship? Right. I completely agree. I think that as Jorge said,

every relationship is not that it's a bad relationship. It's a learning experience. I'm so grateful and appreciative for that relationship. I have so much respect for Fiverr. She's age beyond her years.

“And that's probably the only time I can say honestly”

in my life that I've had a breakup that wasn't toxic. Like, it wasn't a problem. It was understanding on my part.

I've always felt that her heart is pure, and I know that it is.

So I don't think that this was something it didn't come from a place of like she was hiding it. It was like, this is just the way it is. She can't deal with it. They mean anymore.

And knowing her heart, I wasn't going to push her in any direction. I just wanted to be respectful of that. But our relationship, like I learned so much as far as being open, I don't think that I've been open and probably

like that I'm probably like a decade before. And I came into the experience wanting to be open to finding my person and knowing that it may not look like what I typically did because obviously that wasn't working. So she was so different for me.

And I saw, like, I'm really big on a person's heart and their intentions and they were just so pure. You know, our conversations. If there was something that I, that she wasn't comfortable with, she had, she had one time when we had, it was off camera,

the conversation about her moving. And when she was extremely uncomfortable about it. And it was before they dinner with you guys. We had a really rough go for about two or three hours, which was crazy because it was like smooth selling.

Guys, like, almost made fun of us because it was like you're all the living. It's just bubble inside of a bubble. Like, I don't have any problems. So it was getting close to the end.

And now we have this problem. And I'm sitting in the bathroom for like 45 minutes. And she's another woman. We're not talking. I'm like, what the fuck's going on?

You know, then I go to the weight room and Logan sees me. And he's like, he's like happily happy. But I actually have a probably like fondly. Just some of the problem. Like I'm like sitting there.

This was napping. Yeah, yeah, make a bet.

So you know what I'm saying? But my I would say a good or a bad trait that I've had in the past when that happens. I'll shut down a little bit. And it takes me some time. And I'll walk away.

I was so proud of her her maturity. I came back into the apartment. She said, hey, can we sit down and talk? And she was so vulnerable and open. She was like, look, I want to moot her Dallas.

I'm going to moot her Dallas. I'm just scared. Like, that's what's going on. Yeah.

So, you know, that was such a powerful moment for me to take.

Like, damn, like, you know, at her age, she took control of that situation. An area that I've been weak. She's able to help me get through. I'm really curious. You guys clearly had it a great connection.

“I think the chemistry was off the charts.”

Clearly, you know, you're talking about moments that fight for showed this maturity that surprise do. And I think when, again, you're the older person. They're trying not to like quiz the person about like how mature they are. And yet, fight for showed you these moments of maturity.

And again, this is not like a rip on fire for, but it think it sounds like you came to learn that like, once she got outside of this bubble and got back to her life. She may be realized that like, you know what age is playing a role. And why this relationship can't work out. I'm not ready for what Derek has or his lifestyle.

Yeah, I agree. I think when you're in the bubble, like, I think she was completely ingrained in the experience.

And even when I first brought up my kids, like the night before,

I was like freaking out. It's talk about it. Because for me, I know how I know the severity of it. Right? That's so serious.

And she took it so easy.

“So it was like, maybe she was going with the flow because she hasn't been in that situation before, right?”

So it was like, yeah, it's cool. We'll figure it out. Yes, it's cool. But for me, those steps were like monumental. Like, I'm like, this is huge.

And as far as if we can continue or, you know, we decide like this. This does not work for me even. I was, like, so like, I was grateful for the way that she took, like, the things that are flawed about me, or the responsibilities that I have and all that.

And then moment, but I think getting back home, you know, she had those influences.

And that's fair, right? She's 23 years old. You're going to be influenced by your circle that you're on. Are you more less likely or about the same? You're willingness to date someone younger than you?

No, I'm not the same. Okay. If, let's say you meet someone, they're younger than you. I'm curious how going forward will you protect yourself and your heart from the same thing ending up? Because a lot of people have bad partners.

If I were talked about a bad acts, and it wouldn't be surprising to me that you meet someone younger than you. And they're like, on the staircase, it's a great guy. You know, there's a lot of reasons why you seem appealing, but how will you protect yourself from meeting someone like Firefox, which again, no disrespect, you know, talks about when she gets older.

Like you seem like a great guy, but maybe just isn't in the place in her life to actually meet you where you're at. I think having deeper conversations, like some of those things that I may have like touched on and whereas Firefox was like, I don't really want to go there.

“But I think that's a big part of it, like, you know what?”

I'm going to have to make you uncomfortable right now, because this is actually where I'm met in life. And not that you have to have the perfect response. But I need you to get the entire picture, right? And see what the response is and see what the outcome is from there. And I think that's probably an area that I could say, you know, I can improve on.

Yeah, from that relationship. It's tough. Yeah, because there is that moment where you guys were talking about moving. You know, and I've said this many times. As I've gotten older, I realized that my 20s were me living up to the expectations I have

when I was like a teenager, right? And you're like, this is how I had planned. This is what I had planned. And I remember hearing Fifer saying things like, I made this promise to myself. I promised this to myself.

And you're on the other end being like, listen, let's figure it out as we go. Looking back to you see that as a sign of maybe this kind of the gap between your maturity levels. Yes, I do. On the front end when she explained like this, she moved away for college. She went back home for a while and then moved again.

So I took it or moved across the country to go to finish up school in Seattle. I took that as you know what, she's had these experiences since she's kind of been on her own. So she does understand that it can be rocky, which you can still make it, right? And in that moment when she had that conversation, I was like trying to get her to lean on her previous experiences, right? Because I know that I can't push my honor and say, hey, it's just going to be all right.

It's just going to be all right. Just trust me. I was just, you know, trying to convey like, look, you've been down this road before. Yes, it looks very different, but you've been uncomfortable. And it doesn't mean that you can't grow and it doesn't mean that we can't grow.

What is your dating life look like today? I'm single. I took some time. And I mean, like I said, I put a lot into that, into the entire experience.

And being that open for me is just not that easy to just turn around and do that.

“Again, so I would much rather take my time, you know, and make sure that I'm ready.”

So I can show up for a person, you know, if I'm going to truly try to date again. Okay. But are the DMs open? The DMs are open. Okay.

Was there any moment where you looked back at maybe some of the other women who were at the retreat and thought, maybe I should like rekindle with someone else, maybe I should follow up with the connection that I had that I didn't see all the other women. [laughter] Someone's clearing the crowd. [laughter]

What are you doing? You're a cop. You're a cop. You're a cop. You're a cop.

You're a cop. I was clearing my throat. When were you going to start golf? I cleared my throat.

And first of all, Derek is just a great guy.

Now. [laughter] See how I did that? Like that? You're outstanding.

First of all, I mean, if you're broken up with someone, you were certainly allowed to visit past connections. [laughter] Who's the connection? We all want to know. He doesn't have...

Who's the connection? Oh, so we let Derek answer? Yes. Who's DMs? Was DM you?

Was that? Did I have any previous connection? I just was curious. Maybe, uh, start with that. Yes.

From the show? No, no. I mean, like, in Whistler. And Whistler, did I develop any? I didn't develop any connections with Whistler.

Is there anyone from the show that you went on? This is our conversation. It's not a crime, by the way. [laughter] God, say laugh.

Everyone loves to keep in touch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

“I think everyone's talking to the movie.”

Yeah. Yeah. But I would you guys... Exactly. Thank you so much for being here.

Seems like you got to know Fife for a little bit. Is there anything we need to say or offer on Fife for a speed half before we move on?

I mean, I think Fife is an amazing girl.

I think my heart was... Oh, it is a heart's throw up seeing their story. Like, I think that they're both so well-spoken and articulate. And I don't know. When I see it, I'm like...

God, we are rooting for you. But I honestly do really resonate with Fife's experience back home because I think... So many people may not think about is that it's an incredibly unrelatable experience to come home and say that. You met this guy who lives in another state and he has two kids and he's older than me and whatever. And I am somebody who also takes my friends opinions very seriously.

And it's really hard, honestly, to tell people about the situation that you're in. You kind of have to keep it under wraps and whatever. And frankly, it does feel a little bit delusional when your friends haven't met the person and you really don't have the perfect chance to prove yourself for your relationship. And they haven't even seen it play out on TV. They don't know what your experience was.

So I understand that that can be a really hard thing to bring back home. And if you let others opinions get to you or you really sit around and ruminate about what it is you did, it can be a bit of a threat. I'm curious, Andrew, how'd you do with that? Because on one side, I can't totally get what Libby's saying. But it's kind of like, "All right, man, I'm dating someone younger. I want to know that she can not be listening to people. I want her to do what she wants to do. How did you guys strike that balance between wanting to respect her friendships?

But at the same time, want to make sure that she was making decisions for herself and feeling like that was happening." Well, I mean, if you watch this show, you Libby's very outspoken. I don't think she's someone that lets people opinions get to her so much. And I met Nina and then again, like we've hung out since then. So I think they saw our relationship. They saw how we were together, not just the little bit that they saw on the show.

And they saw that we were very compatible. They saw the love that we had for each other.

“As a father, I think that's what I would want to see if there was an age difference.”

But with one of my daughters dating someone, I just want to see that person consistently show up for my daughter and see what that relationship looks like. And I see, I think as they've seen it, they've been very accepting of it. Let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back to get into it with the rest of the couples. Don't go away. Here's something a lot of homeowners don't realize until it's too late. Home insurance doesn't cover everything.

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Oli feed the obsession. And we're back to the age of attraction season one reunion. And it's time to get into Theresa and John. Woo! Ha ha ha.

Theresa and John also known as age of attractions Prince Harry and Meghan Markle.

“Minus the Royal Drama were immediately smitten with each other, but could their fairy tale romance survive a twenty-seven year age gap?”

And Theresa's fear of outside judgment? Let's pop the bubble and ask. Well I want to start with you Theresa. Okay. Obviously I think I speak for everyone when we were all rooting for you as stereotypes.

The audience loves you guys. I think we're all very sad and heartbroken to hear that you guys aren't together. Following that very beautiful ceremony at the top of the mountain, let's walk us through kind of like what happened next in your relationship. So yeah, we left Vancouver and we went to Chicago.

He came to my hometown, met a couple of my friends, stayed with me for a couple days. We had a great time. There were no issues. Everything was great. It was very sad to see him leave.

“And then we went and we met up in New York a couple weeks later.”

And that was sort of like the first time that we really--

Lots of Naples first. Oh, you're right. Sorry, my bad. Yeah, we spent 4th of July in Florida. Again, met a couple of my friends.

Everything was great. He came more or less to me. And yeah, we had a great time. Everything was wonderful. No cracks in anything.

And then we went to New York. And it was then that things really started to weigh on me. I guess, and there were some outflow outside influences. One, the show had kind of broken with the daily mail. And there were some negative things.

And I started getting anxious. And the other thing was we went to get drinks with his sister and another one of our cast members. And they really made me feel very uncomfortable about my age. Yeah, I didn't expect to get emotional.

And we did feel uncomfortable with his sister in the other cast member. Yeah. But yeah, I just felt like they were really sort of like focusing on their ages. And I felt really kind of like left out of conversations. It almost felt like purposeful in some ways that like they were really trying to like make me feel old.

And I tried to keep my cool and I just couldn't handle it. So I, we were supposed to go to dinner. And I actually felt sick. So I went back to the hotel. And that was when I really like broke down.

And I texted John and told him, you know, I was really upset and everything.

And that we were going to talk when he got back.

“And I just kind of tumble weighted in my feelings.”

And I just couldn't get my head back to where it was before. And the next morning he and I tried to have a conversation. And I tried to, you know, I was very emotional and tried to express what was going on inside of me. And I just didn't feel like John could give me the support that I needed. Like it was, and no fans, but like he just didn't have any words.

And I was like sitting there just like trying to explain where I was at. And it was like silence. And I just remember some of the things you were trying to explain. And how you were trying to explain.

I mean, I was basically reliving what had happened the night before.

And I was saying, you know, like, this is just too hard. You know, I was just dying for some support. Some like reassurance of some sort. And I didn't get any. And so I was like, well, you have nothing to say.

So I'm going to go and I went for like a walk around Manhattan. And then he left and went to his sisters. And that was like the first really bad part of the breakup. I'm sure. I mean, I love to hear your point of view of that story.

Respond on. Well, I think that's what happened. Any, you wish you would have handled it differently. Like as you reflect back on that moment. What would you have done different if you could?

“I think during the show, I said a million times and two million times.”

The age isn't an issue unless we make it an issue. Sure. And she, and I'll speak for you, felt uncomfortable being in public. And the people looking at us differently. That was an edit all.

I never felt like that.

I never felt like walking down the street, like going out to dinner.

Like our two trips prior that we had taken. And even like when we first got to Manhattan, we went to lunch. I felt like very confident being next to you. Did not feel like anybody was looking at us. I said that like a few times.

I was like, I don't think anybody like looks at us weird. Like I feel like we look really good together. And I felt super confident in that. I think what it really was. And we did have a conversation after that ceremony on the mountain top.

That we were going to have these kinds of issues. And we promised each other that we were going to like really be there and support each other. And that was what I was looking for. And I just didn't know why that it felt like it had changed for you. And I don't know why, but I felt like the guy who I had seen in Naples,

who like literally helped me was like, you tell me what you need. Tell me what you need was gone. I didn't know where that went, but it wasn't there anymore. Sorry, you're saying you felt like she was making the agent issue. And that's why you had nothing to say.

That's what you told me. What do you mean? That's what you said. You didn't feel comfortable with Catherine and my sister. And you felt.

And I'll spare some words you didn't feel good with us together. I went back to the hotel. We went to sleep. I woke up the next morning and you just said, I can't do this anymore. Well, I said a lot more than that.

But I'll keep some details out. But I think you just went blank. I don't think you really like even could hear me. I heard you. But you didn't say anything.

I was personally aware of anything. And I was sitting there waiting for you to respond and you had no response.

“I think we discussed age so many times that you deserve to be comfortable with who you're with.”

And I deserve the person I'm with to be comfortable with me. But I think it was just going out in public more often. And you know, each time we got together, it was a question. And Naples was fun. Chicago was perfect.

New York was perfect the first half.

And you deserve to be with someone. You're 100% comfortable. I know that. And I know that. And I was comfortable with you.

I just I was asking for what it was that we had promised to each other. What I feel like I just heard was you said that age wouldn't be a factor unless the two of you made it a factor. And then I'm hearing that at dinner you're sitting with this cast mate and your sister kind of making age a factor. I mean, she deserves to feel, you know, I'm sorry. And I don't know what my sister was hinting at.

I don't know what Catherine was hinting at. That's how you felt. Unfortunately, it's years and eyes relationship. But it doesn't matter what my sister thinks. It doesn't matter where Catherine thinks.

So it will interesting enough. Let's just for the sake of assumption. Assume that maybe Teresa was projecting or reading it a certain way whatever. But that's how she felt. And what I'm hearing from Teresa is that she needed her man, her partner, to hear her out.

And I'm almost hearing from you.

Is this like, I'm done talking about our age. And I got nothing more to say. And you kind of shut down. You know, it's like it's one thing to date in a bubble. Because they're outside of a bubble.

And you were going to face some certain realities. And Teresa was trying to communicate to you. Hey, like, I need this from you. I need to talk to you. And it didn't seem like you were having it.

“I think the beauty of a relationship is two people that pick each other every day.”

And they go through those fights and you're waking up next to the person. Oh, they're picking me. I'm picking them. And I guess we got to a point where we just didn't pick each other. And was that me?

Was that us? Was that her? It didn't work out. But I think, yeah, I think I have to look at myself. And maybe I was tired of the age becoming a factor.

How do we look in public? How do you feel?

It literally was the first time.

It had become a factor. Leah, you seem. I'm just curious. Because like, his story don't add up. And she's telling her truth, so she's very interesting.

You know what I'm saying? Why is my story not added? For what she's saying, the for her experience. Because you're downplaying everything that she's saying. And I'm just trying to understand your side.

Because you're like, that didn't happen. You're like, but she's literally saying how she was feeling at the time. And I'm just trying to just get just so interesting. I don't think he's downplaying. I think he's taking accountability for I don't understand.

I mean, to me, if he has a feeling. I can understand he, you know, the age factor. He may have gotten warm with it. I don't, I don't get in their relationship. Because I think that they had a beautiful relationship.

But I don't think that he's ducking and dodge anything. I think he's taking. He's talking about a straight up. Yeah, I mean, I think he's acknowledging that things don't work out. But I, it doesn't feel like he's acknowledging, I guess, this this conversation.

And which is fine if you don't want to. But it's just more. If you guys don't get back together. Well, we'll be sad, but, you know, again, I hope that we all learn a little bit about ourselves and our relationships. And again, I think what I hope, maybe if you're open to it, regardless of what the topic was.

It sounds like age was the topic. But like you're acknowledging that you just shut down, you know, emotionally. And like, yeah, I totally agree with you.

“Every day you have to show up and you got to choose each other, which is real.”

But it also can kind of be a cliche when you're just saying it. But in this moment, you didn't, it sounds like you didn't show up for Theresa. Like you didn't pick her in that moment by saying. How can I be there for you? It sounds like you quit.

But maybe that's a breakup, no. So you broke up with me, essentially. So you're acknowledging that moment. You're saying that that's what it was. That your action was equal to a breakup.

What are you saying, man? What?

Was that ultimately what causes a breakup?

Was that it? That was the initial big swipe, yeah. I don't, I don't deserve to date someone who texts me. I feel disgusting with you. I never said that.

I never said that. Did you take that as something about yourself? She deserves to be comfortable with who you went. I said I was disgusted with myself. That's terrible.

I wouldn't want to date someone who feels like that. Well, I was looking for you to say, why do you feel this way? And let me help you get through this.

“I mean, that's what relationships are about.”

You do pick each other every day. But it doesn't mean you don't have conflict. And so if you have a conflict, does that mean, oh, I'm not picking you today? No, it means you work through it. We had conflict before that.

We had conflict with communication on the phone. And I said, tell me what you need. And we talked over the phone. Disappear. What does that mean? He would disappear.

Like, I would be texting him. And I wouldn't hear back from him for hours. Did your phone die? Well, that's what you're referring to. That one time that I was like, I am not happy with the way that, like,

I'm texting you. You're telling me, like, you're right there. And yeah, I don't hear back from you. And I didn't know what was going on. It's like a Friday night.

I mean, this will lose the situation. It's, it's. You brought it up, so. Yeah, I'm not a big textur. And we're in a long-distance relationship.

We call it a big problem, obviously. But I think you deserve to be with someone you're comfortable with. You text me saying that you did not. You felt disgusting that night. We went back to the hotel.

That's, that's, I feel bad in that. If I'm your boyfriend, and you feel disgusting going out with me, that's no fun for any, either of us. You deserve it.

You deserve it. You deserve it. So I mean, she just said it. I don't know what I mean. But like, I'm sorry, we're having an argument.

I appreciate, I honestly, again, appreciate you guys being honest.

But I'm trying to hear both of you. You know, we've been in fights. You know, sometimes she might say something. Where I don't agree or, you know, she might, you know, she might talk about how she's feeling right now

and how I might make her feel. But like, it really sounds like whatever she said, you just shut down. And I'm just like wondering why. Maybe I was over it.

Okay. Was it the culmination of certain things?

“Is it lack of response always shutting down though?”

I mean, someone who already struggles speaking and being, like, you've talked about that a lot. I'm not trying to defend anyone. But is that necessarily shutting down? Not necessarily knowing what to answer in that moment.

And then I'm now, this is different. This is a few months later.

But in that moment, you know, you could always have that

conversation later. It's hard. Yeah, but you say let's have a conversation. How difficult is that to have a response there as well? No question.

Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, you know, I need some time to, like, think about this and let's talk in another hour. That didn't happen. And we filmed a show that show is centered around age differences.

As you all know, you got asked that question a lot. It was the focus of the show. And unless, unless you guys disagree, it's not Teresa saying post show. This was one of the first times you felt whatever you felt

and brought this to John's attention.

“And you're saying in that moment, you were over it.”

I mean, we had discussions before. There was stuff set over text that I didn't appreciate about. Like what? You were, you felt bad stealing my youth. That was that night that we had that conversation.

It was before hand. I don't really feel comfortable like airing this out. Okay. Well, that's why we're here. Well, it sounds like the two of you were able to at some point

reconnect if this was just the first swipe at a breakup.

So what were the following days like after this? Two on a talk? You're tall. Okay. So the next, actually, that morning after I took my walk

and I had a clear head, I did contact John. And I was like, I'm really sorry for my feeling overwhelmed and, you know, I apologize. And we talked a little bit about like what we were doing that day. The next morning, he came back to the hotel.

And we had breakfast. We had a great conversation. We went out of walk. He was leaving that day. I was staying in New York.

We gave each other a hug and a kiss goodbye. Like a real kiss. Not on the cheek. And we went our separate ways. And then we, I thought we were doing good.

We were back. And it didn't turn out to be that way. Then that next week, we again had like some bad communication issues. I brought up something that I was curious about

with regard to an Instagram thing. And then here from him. What Instagram thing? I just rather not mention it, because I don't think it's relevant.

But it was just something that I had seen that I was like, what is this? And I reached out to John and he did not reply for like an hour. And then I got like three words.

And that was it. I called, didn't pick up. Nothing. And then the next day, I write him again.

And he totally ghosts me. And I didn't talk to him for weeks. What was his three word response? It was something like, don't worry about it. Very vague.

John, is there anything you would like to clear up in this moment? Is that a growl? Yeah.

“Did you think you were in a relationship at that point?”

No. Okay. When was this? A woman? I mean, you go this way.

Yeah. Yeah. Explain. I would love to hear. I...

You got pretty nasty with me. After that, yeah. You got pretty nasty with me. I did. And I want to be totally respectful.

And I want to support you through this journey. And maybe I didn't communicate with you in the moment when you needed it. But I want to support you now. That being said, with some of the communication we had post breakup, if we were not in this bubble,

and we didn't have to support each other right now, which I do want to support you. With the way you communicated with me and the things you said, I don't think we would ever speak again. Okay.

I mean, I was very frustrated when I left you that voice memo. I said some things that I regret.

But that is sometimes what happens when you are ghosted. We were broken up. And I think we were. Then I apologize.

“I mean, did you really declare that we were broken up?”

And we had continued to talk. And when I said something that day, we were all adults. And I'm just like, did you expect a response from whatever question you asked? Yeah. And it was actually me trying to, in some ways,

protect you because I saw some things that I was like, I don't think you're going to want, you know, out there. I don't call that. Jorge, is there anything? I'm not in the business of speaking to people's relationships.

I don't think that John is speaking is authentic truth, because I think he's protecting Theresa, which I respect. And so that this man is going to choose to protect her. I'm all for it because I'm all about protecting relationships. And I understand it.

But I think that there's that. That's so not fair.

First of all, you're like gaslighting a little bit here.

Because there's nothing I need protection of. I take full responsibility for what it was that I said. John just said. And if you want to play it. And you want to hear all of our dirty laundry.

Let's do it. I'm not. I don't want to get it. I was being just as respectful to him. As he's claiming to be to me with protecting me and supporting me.

So, I mean, I'm holding back some information. He's, you know, saying that he is protecting me by. Maybe not saying that I was nasty in that voice memo. I don't know. I mean, listening, every healthy couple has had to apologize.

You know, hey, I'm sorry I've been an asshole. I'm sorry I've been whatever.

“But I think what we're talking about here is how you guys communicated or didn't communicate.”

And so like, you seem like a great guy and the guy I got to know filming. Like, I really enjoyed my time.

And just watching it back, you were always showing up for Teresa.

You seem like this really empathetic, really understanding guy. The guy sitting here right now. I'm not getting that same energy. I'm getting like, I was over it, whatever. And where, what am I missing?

You. I just. You don't want to say anything. I don't know. No.

I mean, you guys fell in love on time. And like, I will 1000% say, like John is an amazing guy. I mean, we had our issues. And there were things. And that was the demise of the relationship.

And like, yeah, we're getting emotional and a little heated here. But at the end of the day, like, I, I thought you were an amazing guy. Guy, man, whatever on the show. I still think you are. I just think our communication fell apart.

I don't really know what happened. But my only thing that I would say is that, like, you got to learn how to communicate better. I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying I'm perfect.

But I really care about you.

I always have over this last nine months.

So, you know, I'm not here to, like, trash you. But I'm not here to, like, dig up bad stuff.

“But I think that you are very closed off right now.”

And I think when we were on the show and we were together, you were very open. You're very comfortable. And that's why we flowed so well. And I don't, I don't know.

That's, that's just my take. Yeah, I, I, I all admit that, yeah, maybe I did shut down at the hotel. I did. And you did you deserve a better communication.

100%. But I think in that moment, if we're being truthful with each other, I was probably just fed up with age being an issue with you not feeling comfortable together. I don't want to date someone who feels gross next to me.

And that text hurt. I was out with my sister. We had a reservation for three. Her favorite restaurant. That text hurt me because you,

you deserve to feel comfortable with whoever you're dated. Yeah, I agree. And I, yeah, I just shut down. Yeah, I did. And I didn't communicate.

And the lines were very blurry. After that walk after breakfast the next morning, they were very blurry. And hindsight's 2020. If I wish I could go back and say, no,

we're not doing this. You know, we need some space and just shut it down. Maybe we could be kind of in a couple weeks. But I didn't. And we didn't.

And that the lines were, it was a little gray. And I do. We regret that. All right, well, I appreciate that. Do you think age played a role in your guys' demise?

Yes. In what way? Um, I just think that we. Didn't have the communication skills that we needed. And I think the distance definitely had a huge partner.

Because, you know, when you live across the country from each other, you can't just be like, let's go grab coffee and go for a walk. And like, talk through this or whatever. Like, it's telephone.

So if you don't have those basic communication skills,

like, what do you have?

“What did you learn about yourself in this process, John?”

Funny. I thought I could communicate in the, in the bubble. And I feel like Teresa allowed me to have extremely hard conversations. I would consider myself anxiously attached. And that's something I'm working on.

And in the bubble, when the kids came, she kind of shut down and went in her, you know, separate part of the house. And I was like chasing after. I was like, what's wrong?

What can I do for you? And she's like, John, just let me have my space. Like, I'm fine. The kids are coming. I just need my space.

And it made me think, fuck, nothing's wrong with us. I'm just, oh, Teresa's gone. And that's not healthy. She needs her space. And I remember she was on the stove.

And I was like, what's like, how, how can I be here for you right now? And she said, I just need my space.

And that was the first time I was allowed to have a really hard

and uncomfortable conversation. Because it was me. I was anxiously attached. I thought I did something wrong. She was in the bathroom throwing up.

And I text she was like, just leave me alone. And nothing's wrong with our relationship in that moment. I just need to learn to be, you know, confident in what we had. And I've learned that. I know I'm anxiously attached.

And she allowed me to have hard conversations. Did I fail later on? Yeah. It definitely wasn't the best communication. But in the experience, she made me a lot better.

Officially, I can thank her for that.

“Did that attachment style carry on throughout after filming?”

Yeah. I mean, I, and not to be the guy that talks about baseball all the time. And, you know, as glory years, baseball was ripped away from me. So I've, I've taken that into relationships. And it's not, it's not healthy.

I think our breakdown was communication. And I think not to make excuses. It's easier when you're living with each other in the bubble. It's easier if you live in the same city. I think that's just common sense.

I'm proud of us for taking a really realistic approach to it. I did at least. I think, and I'm not going to speak for her. But yeah, I think communication was a breakdown. I'm curious, just reflecting on this relationship.

How will you work on your attachment style or whatever it is that causes you to shut down when things get difficult? Just be confident in what the relationship you built with that person. Be secure. And I think I was secure in Vancouver and in Whistler with her. That was kind of like the honeymoon, you know?

Yeah. I'm hearing as it was fun, it was great. There was this huge chemistry. You know, but when shit hit the fan, you cut and run. Well, shit hit the fan like a couple weeks before New York.

Whenever. No, I know. We had some conversations that I didn't like over the phone. And I was like, we're going to talk about this in person. And then we went to New York.

“Did you talk about those things in person in New York?”

Or did they kind of just be brushed under the rug? You text me that you felt bad when we were away. And you wanted me to see other people. You felt that. Now I ask you if you wanted to.

And if you said, I said, please, just be honest with me. Yeah. And I didn't appreciate that because it's not something I do in a relationship. It's not something. Well, I was just kind of giving you sort of an opening or an opportunity to be.

Because we didn't have great communication. And again, like you don't like to text our phone calls. We're very far into between. I felt like there was this distance that was growing. And so I was like, huh, maybe he wants to start dating other people.

And so I was like, let me just throw this out there and see what how his response was. And you were like, no, absolutely not. And I didn't realize that my asking that question would have made you upset. You didn't tell that to me.

So, you know, I was literally just trying to like fish to see what was going on. Because I didn't know where we were at a variety of times. After we left, Naples more or less. I think. Trees I got to ask about your kids.

Oh, obviously, they played a big role in your feelings in your decision. Did your kids ever find out how old John was? They just found out. They just found out. Uh-huh.

From watching the show. Pretty much. Yeah.

Why did you never tell them?

Well, John and I had broken up. And, you know, I just didn't. I was like, what's the point now? Like, nobody. They weren't curious?

I mean, they're living their own lives. Like, my youngest was starting his first job in New York. You know, like, everybody's off doing their own thing. They're not like in mom's house.

Yeah. So, I just didn't bring it up to them. And then, yeah, on Monday with the trailer or that little poster thing with her ages under our feet, I was like, oh, look, Lauren. Like, they call it crunching my skirt.

She's like, oh, my God. He's 27. I was like, oh, shit. Like, I forgot that was there. And then my son just texted me.

I think it was this morning or yesterday, like, I saw the first episode.

And I'm really shocked at how young he is. And, you know, my response was he's a great guy. He, you know, is a lot more mature than what his ages. Obviously, you met him. You got to know him.

And, you know, we're not together. So, because you don't have to worry about that. And I was like, concern that his friends were embarrassed. I'm looking back.

“Obviously, I know I remember that infamous dinner.”

Leah had something to say. That's okay. It's okay. But listen, like, obviously, it was all your, it was all your guys's journey to do whatever you want.

But I do think Leah, you know, made a point in the sense that, like, it's like, if your kids play that much of a role and in your dating life,

and it makes a lot of sense, wouldn't it make sense to tell them

because what if they didn't accept how old John was at the time? But I hear you are falling in love with this guy. Wasn't that putting your relationship with John in a sticky position by not just being upfront with your kids, knowing that what they think means a great deal to you.

I, I don't mean to cut you off. I think it's a double standard with us versus the people with kids because what if someone falls in love and then a year later meets the kids and the kids don't like the partner. The thing with us, we weren't allowed to go through our journey

without her getting scrutinized for not revealing my age. But it's really the same thing. It's a big part of her life.

“It's a big part of a partner's life who has kids.”

So they get to the past she has kids. No, I know, but they get to the past. People who didn't come, they get to the past.

Yeah, they get to the past on not introducing the partner to the kids,

but when she doesn't want to really be on my age, she gets shit for it. Right. And to add on to that, what I was going to say is that, you know, I totally respect like I did too. True.

And Derek's choice not to introduce or whatever. 100%. However, like I also, I mean, that situation. Regardless of the fact that my kids are like maybe seven, eight years older than yours. Like, they came to the show.

Obviously, you could see how nervous that was for me. Because I do not introduce my kids to partners casually at all. And I was forced to do that. Okay. So I had to swallow that and deal with it.

And so the fact that that was a huge thing for me. And then on top of it, I'm supposed to say, "Oh, by the way, he's two years younger than you, Richard." Like, that's, that was a lot for me. No, I totally get it.

It's a lot. The question still stands. Yeah. I'm just curious, knowing that it does mean a lot to you what they think.

“Is there a world where we do withdraw a lot at you?”

Yeah. Obviously, it was a very weird situation. I totally get that. But I'm just wondering, when you watch it back, is there a lane where it would have made sense just to kind of tell them

because if they didn't accept them? What would have happened if they didn't accept them? It's a good reason why. Let me give you my train of thought. Again, to go back to I met John, I had no idea how old he was.

Really was drawn to him. He had feelings bubble of all, right? Then I find out how old he is, and I'm like, "Oh, my God." Okay, well, now I have this like inner argument with myself. If my kids who are in their 20s had gotten to know John,

and learned what a great guy he is, just like I did. And saw how strong a relationship and saw all those good things. And then they found out, and they were like, "Ooh." I'd be like, "Yeah, but let's have this intellectual argument now." Does age matter because he's got all of these qualities.

And I get it. But these are the reasons why I chose him. And I still chose him after I knew his age. And I want you guys to also think about that. And that's the conversation I would have had after they got to know him.

Theresa, when you met John's mom and sister, you left and they stayed and had a conversation. His sister said that you not telling them about having children was off putting in weird. How did that feel to watch that back?

I mean, at her. John and I had a conversation prior to getting together with our friends and family. And we both said that we were not going to say those things. We were not going to... We... I mean, it's roll back. We literally say, like, we're not going to say ages.

And we're not going to talk about the kids.

You know, she's got kids or whatever.

I just didn't think it was part of the plan. So that's part of the reason why I didn't say those things. But I mean, if I had known that we were wanting to do that, I would have done it. Is there any love still there?

Are you guys in love with each other? Is there any chance that we're kindling?

“I mean, I think I will always really care about John.”

And I think what we had was real. But I think we've learned that. Like, it's just more not compatible. John, do you feel like age played a role in your relationship ending? I don't think it was age.

I think it was communication. I think it was, I think, I'll speak for myself. We all go to Jorge and we spent so much time together during this process. He's taught me a lot that experiences matter.

And communication is key as she is that sounds.

So I think if I might have, if I would have shown up and communicated clearly with her, we could have talked through those things, was it me giving up? Yeah, I think that's, that's, you can paint that picture. I don't think it was just age that broke us up. Okay.

Well, thank you for being so vulnerable and honest about your relationship. Leah and Chris is 15 year age gap relationship. Back the question, can you turn a boy into a man? And after a season of ups and downs, flight attendant Leah came to the realization that Chris might not be as worldly as she hoped.

Leah, how did it feel knowing that you were ready to commit and he was not? For me, it was shocking because everything that he told me to my face was that he was in it. So, because it's like what you don't see is that he actually met my sister in law. And we had a great time. And he talked about how intimate he was and all these things about getting to know me.

And then we also meet his mom the next day. And then, as you see what she said, she said, you look so happy. You're there, right? Yeah, you do. And then in two seconds, he's like, I'm so stressed.

I was like, you wasn't stressed two minutes ago. Not two minutes, but yeah. I mean, more like 45 minutes. You know, but you feel me now. Yeah.

So, it's like, once again, it's like, it's just all like the facade. It's like some lies, you know? Because I didn't know he had all these feelings. Because it didn't tell me. So, watching that moment back with his mom that caught you completely off guard.

Yeah. Because we were in a good place when I had walked away. Like, me and his mom had a great chat. We like, they may not. Okay, cool.

I got, you know. But we did. And she understood.

“I think her biggest concern was like, I've lived alone.”

They're used to being around their family. I was like, I love hanging out having parties. I was like, but does the door lock? You know what I mean? But that was like her biggest thing in about children.

I was like, I've never pressed him for a relationship, children.

I just was like, we can just date. Because I don't know from him. Like, from what he was always telling me, it's like he was in. And he was having issues. But it never had to do with me.

It was about the sleep being sleep deprived. All these filming issues. You know what I mean? It was never like Leah. It's you.

You're the problem. You never said that to me. Because if he had what you don't know is my best friend lost her mom two days into Vancouver. And I found that out. So for me, it's like, I never needed him.

You know, my girlfriend needed me. I could have bounced. If I knew, that's what he was pushing. You know what I mean? So for me, he was very selfish in that to not let just tell me the truth.

Because I remember I sat down with him. Like, I felt him like pulling away about like maybe a few days in the evening because the whole sleep stuff. And I was like, hey, I sat down the couch. And I was like, do you like me?

And he said, yes, it's not you. It's the situation. It's like, okay, then I'll ride with you. Because once I ask you once, I don't need to ask you six times. I do like me.

Like you say you like me, then I'll ride with you. And I won't talk bad about you. And I will keep it. Like you heard me in arm. We had like a meeting with the, with the crew about some stuff.

And I was like, I fought for him. He's not sleeping. He doesn't go to the gym. He doesn't get to tent. You know what I mean?

“But I think the day is like, that wasn't even my fight to fight.”

I crashed. I'm just, you know, watching it back. I am curious, you know, for those watching or listening during filming as you guys know, we took your phones away. We really wanted you guys to focus on your relationships.

You have this limited time. So the whole part of the experiment is to really lean in.

Why it seemed like you weren't leaning in to this experience. And last time I had a chance to talk with you, you talked about, think your explanation was, you wanted to give Lea a glimpse into what your life was like. But at the same time, couldn't you have just told her? Hey, normally I work out.

Normally I tan. Normally I nap. But like, why were you some reluctant to use this very limited time that you guys had to really lean in to see what your connection was about? Yeah.

So addressing that question more first before anything.

Talking about my routine, that was an excuse to not sneaking out of the apartment and going and doing what the other couples were doing. Because, you know, it seemed like the other couples were having a great time and having fun. I'm not trying to, sorry. That's not what I was saying.

In other words, we're not going out of our way to spend more time with each other, which I hear you on that. Right? Like we're not going. It's not.

Meaning, like, instead of, hey, tonight, we have kind of an off night tomorrow. We don't have much to do. Instead of, let's maybe go to a bar and catch something to eat. My choice was, let's just stay in in. And maybe we want to be on TV and cook.

You know, like, and, and I hear you with what you're trying to say. But that was my response to that about the whole routine.

“That's why my response to you was, well, I guess I also told you.”

And then this reality, like, I felt like I was almost working at one point. Like, trying to keep myself healthy and also struggling with the sleep. You remember what we were talking about. Yeah, you were working with that. And I'm--

Because they can't say you to be taking the gym guy. Yes, that's what you said. Cool. And that's not right. And that's not fair for you.

So I hear you on that. But I don't think that it's fair to say that I was silly. Wait, he said that they casted him. I didn't say that. I don't know if I did.

Regardless, that's not what I don't remember saying that. But I don't think that matters. Okay. I mean, it does not matter. It does not matter.

But it has to be. It doesn't matter. I know, but I don't remember saying that. Regardless, whether you cast me for that, obviously, I'm there to find love. I hear you.

Okay. So with that said, rest of the cast, do you think he was there to find love? Go ahead. If you think he was there to find love, go ahead and raise your hands.

“What I will say, like, honestly, also like being in that experience.”

Like, I also watching like the last finale episode. You can clearly tell like Chris, like, you honestly didn't like Leo. Like, let's just keep the book. You didn't at all.

And you never expressed that to her.

Ever. And I think that was unfair. Like, Leo was literally there, like, so into you. And literally in that experience with you. And you just, you didn't like her.

But she didn't say that to her. I also think it's unfair for, especially from the inside from everyone here. To say that when you saw him this, I wasn't. You saw me on the office and you saw him. When, when you say, I wasn't leaning into it.

I was still there because I was leaning into it. We had a great time with sort of obviously, you know, the edit. There was not much shown there. We get into that. I was leaning into it.

We had a great time with sort of obviously, you know, the edit. There was not much shown there. We get into this. What seemed a little more out of the bubble, but we're still in a bubble. And three, four days in, I was, I felt like I was over at that point.

And I was very, over what? The whole thing. The whole experience. I was struggling with Leah.

“I think it was very clear how much we were struggling.”

I don't know how it's possible that anybody could say that I was. I completely hide in that and showing that. I know that I wasn't showing TV. But there's no one here that didn't see me that Sunday and said, "Well, I'm getting from you and correct me if I'm wrong."

Is that when you talked, when she would check in with you, you would blame it on the show. Productions. Okay, it's clear. So then the next Monday.

We had a date that didn't show was a shopping date. That's, that's when the turn changed. This is, we moved on Thursday into Vancouver. We had off this Sunday. This is three days into filming in Vancouver.

So we have a date.

That morning, I was told you need a voice for the first time.

I had struggling. I didn't want to talk negative. I didn't want to do all that. That morning, that interview was not my best interview. I was trying through the interview.

I'm really happy to show. I wasn't feeling good. We go into instead of being able to have a great conversation. We went into a shopping day. We get there.

It's a boutique. Then, honestly, I didn't, you know, I don't think that she was into because she very was very clear about that. I'm not really, like, this isn't a place I would shop, right? Like this.

Which I'm glad we found something nice. But they regard it. I mean, that's my life, bro. Cool. No, no, no, no.

I don't know. I know. This is a nice show up, you know? Well, I definitely showed up. Because when I was there, we went through shopping.

We went through dresses. And I was struggling at this point. And it was very clear I was struggling. And one of the few things she kept saying was, like, well, you're living your best life out here.

I'm not, we had an off day the day before. And we were on the pool. And I spent maybe an hour and a half by myself. She was struggling with a lot. And to be honest with you, I didn't want her to feel like I'm having a good time.

Well, she's struggling. You do have your space. That was a moment you're on the phone, right? And I was in the corner in the pool. It wasn't until the last 15 minutes that Andrew sat on the floor in the pool.

In the corner and said, dude, like, that's when we had that conversation. Hey, I know you're struggling. Everyone sees it. You're struggling. If you're going to get through this and you're going to be better for this.

Five minutes later, all the boys are sitting next to me 10 minutes later. Leah walks up and she sees me having a great time laughing with the boys.

And as she's trying on clothes, she's talking about how I'm living my best life.

And I go in there, you know, kind of throwing shade. It kind of felt like, anyway, we're walking out and, you know, I was asked about, you know, who's paying for this whole thing from the outside perspective. And I was like, you know, that's my, I'm not, if I ever ever take somebody on a date, I'm taking on a date with her food with her shopping because this is me.

And I felt like once I voiced her, like, hey, this is me, whatever you want to find, but just so you understand, you know, we're walking out. She's grabbing these clothes. And then she's like, oh, but we didn't even look at jewelry yet. After we already, after I know she's joking, but after she already told me,

she didn't like any of this jewelry, right? So it's like, it felt like she was not on my side at that point. It felt like no one was on my side when I'm clearly trying to lean into this at this point. I'm giving everything I have at this point. I'm giving everything I have at this point.

It's not just like Austin. Did you like her? No, I just want to know. Because they're still not saying right. Can I ask you this?

Well, I was like, did you like her? I didn't. I wouldn't have stayed there if I didn't.

“Okay, when you were in Vancouver, did you have feelings for her?”

Of course.

Of course I had feelings for her.

We're talking about that. I'm giving, I'm just asking. Four days in, I wanted to go home. Because I, because I didn't think it was working. I thought the edge gap was too far for us.

And I thought that it was creating an unnecessary for a while. Why not? Oh, I'm not on that. Because I asked you. Chris, I love you as a friend.

And I hear what you're saying about the shopping date and stuff. But everyone was out of their routine. Yeah. We were tanning. We were going to the gym.

Yeah. I was there. You were there. But Leah did not deserve. You pretending like you liked her.

So that you came off as a nice guy. And to be strong along, it was not fair to her. And you could see her genuine emotion. And her genuine connection. And here she was believing your words, but everybody else could see it.

Those weren't your intentions. Yeah. And it was really, really sad watching that back to see how much you liked him. And I think everybody was thinking the same thing. That was really sad to see.

And how you were just, you just wanted to come off as a nice guy. But I hear what you're saying about the shopping date. I know that's frustrating. But we were all out of a routine. Let me just tell you why I did what I did with the shopping date.

Because you literally told me maybe like a day before me. I listened to everything you said, you literally told me you took a girl that you didn't even date. And you bought her a product bag. Yeah, but I was. Look.

Right. But if it was $400, it was $400. If I had my bag, I got this one. But yeah, $400. And then you, you bragged about how much you spent on your grocery bill.

Did he not? $600. So you bragged about all this stuff. And if you liked me, it's like, sure, whatever you want these items. We shop together.

Cool.

“That's why I was like, yeah, add the shoe.”

Have the jewelry. Tell me that you didn't like it. That's why I was hurt by it. But you saw me, I was like, this is cute. I will find something cute in this story.

I hear you, but you got a link there. You said you'd even like the girl that you brought the product bag. Well, that was a conversation. That was a conversation. That was a conversation.

But another one. This was $400. Like it wasn't that serious. Okay. Let's like, I want to take a pause.

Because everybody is kind of getting that Chris right now. Let's John, Chris and I were dating older women, right? And I think you just saw it just now with John and his struggle to find his words. Even with the story told when he was on the phone. You know, it's a reason for saying you shut down.

When you're dating a woman that's older and strong and powerful, she's used to living her life a certain way. And sometimes, you know, being single in the world, it's a mean world. You talk to people a certain way.

And when you go back to a relationship,

sometimes that doesn't always translate.

And so the partner doesn't always feel like they can communicate back. So as much as, yeah, he didn't tell Leah, was he struggling? Because he really wanted to push to make it work? I'm sure. But I think what's coming across right now.

And I mean, Chris knows I love him. I just want Chris to speak his truth. And I think that the women are saying you weren't being truthful. But what I'm concerned with, I get it with they're saying, I understand quite hardly what they say.

You didn't, you weren't true for it. And I just want Chris to speak your truth. And it's okay, whatever your truth is. And I don't want to speak for Leah, but I think if Leah felt like whatever your truth was, she'll live with it.

I do. All I want you to do is just speak her truth. Whatever it is. Right. Right.

Exactly. If you're struggling like that, I think it would help Leah and help you if you would have been like, rather than saying, I want to go to the gym in this production. Look, I am struggling with you.

This is what you're doing to affect me. And then you give her that opportunity to fix it. And talk to you about it and you can grow from it. If it's, you know, if it's meant to be so.

“But you know, the two is he did voice it and that's why after a few days,”

pretty happy faster. And but this is why. You have to really like. Yeah. But like I said, my best friend lost her mom.

And that was like a mom to me. I remember you had voice that you said, you know, I just want to be alone at a good night. I was like cool. I remember I gave you your space at night.

All the time right. You watched TV. You did your thing. I went to bed. I left you alone.

Yes.

We time. But I remember going to bed. I cried so hard.

“And then I felt guilty for bringing it to you.”

While you're on the couch watching TV. So I let a member do. I do me an ask. I was like, is it okay if I sit next to you? Or like, sit near you?

So I suddenly opposite side of the couch. And I, while you watch you, I just sat there. I didn't cry. I just sat. And if that makes me overbearing or clingy, then it is what it is.

But like in that moment, yes, I would have wanted my partner to be like, Are you okay? I know you're struggling right now. You know what I mean? But instead through this process,

I'm protecting you, coddling you when I needed that. And I'm like, you've come to me as like a victim a lot of the times. And at the end of the day, I'm a victim. Like you played me.

You know what I mean? And I'm like, and let me in the real world,

I would never get played because I have options.

I didn't need you. I wanted you around. Do you know what I'm saying? And in this process, when I talked to my friend, I was like, I will come home for you because I don't need to be here.

She said, me and my mom would have wanted you to do this, because this could be your chance to find someone. But that's why I stayed extra long. Because you kept telling me to my face that you wanted to do this for us. And then I would hear every little thing.

Some of the things that you would say and it's like, it would just be like a little different. But then once you know what I mean? But this is a different world. So I was like, well, on TV,

he's probably getting nervous with his words. But I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. And I saw, like you know, you say people say you date the potential of a man. And I was.

Because I know you're a good person. You don't mean harm. But you did harm. You know, and I just want you to just take that ownership to know. I'm bloody.

I'm telling you like, for someone to say is like, I was clean and my friend needed me. I'm like her best friend. Like her own like, you know what I mean? And like, you took that from me.

I'm sorry. Looking back to you thinking you were reckless with Leah's feelings. Yeah. And in that pool that pool day that we had,

“everyone, I think I remember Andrew coming.”

Or he said, are you okay? And I said, I'll be fine. But I give me some time. And I don't even think you even checked on me. That's why I said, you're out here living your best life.

Because I was literally on that thing. I'll check on you. But I hear you. I mean, you know how much I was feeling for that. Because you know me with what I just dealt with two years ago.

You know what? I know. And that's where I'm like. And I'm sorry that that's how you feel. That's why I was sorry.

You, you made sure everyone around you was good and happy. Except for the person who was living with you. Leah, did Chris know that you were going to say yes at the final ceremony? No. I ended up changing my mind.

So I was going to say no. And then I wanted to. After dinner, we had a great conversation. I remember like, mind, you, we had the mom, my sister-in-law. That all had great great endings.

And I was like, okay, he understands where I'm coming from.

He finally gets what I'm trying to tell him.

And he, he's like, let me, you know, he's like, you made me a better man. I was like, I'm not trying to make you a better man for the next person. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm trying to, like, I just, I see you. I get what a good person you can be.

And that's what I'm saying. Like, when you're on your on, but you like live in your head. And it just turns and spins your thinking about so much far in advance, which is beautiful. But like, you just have to live in the present.

What did you think Chris was going to say at the commitment ceremony? I knew he was going to say no. I went. I, um, I felt at the day he left. I felt like our goodbye.

It wasn't like a normal goodbye that you would be like, Oh, I like all there. The couples were like, Oh, my God, I'm just a much. He was like, I was racing to get out. I was like, dang, you know, I get you stressed and I'm, but, woo.

I'm probably, you know what?

“That's why when I was like, you're going to miss me.”

I was like, I'm just, I'm just now. I'm just messing with you because I'm only not going to miss me. You can't wait. You run it out the door, you know? Chris, last time we had you on the show.

You caught me off guard because you kind of kept referencing this desire of being on reality TV. You had mentioned, I forgot how you said it, but you talked about. He was 18. You thought you were ready for reality television and then here you are at 27.

You know, like, I'm not ready, right? Yeah. I wasn't sure what you said, but it was just, it really caught me off guard because I just, you were just talking about this desire about specifically going on reality TV, which, you know, is not a crime, but obviously, given this show and given like how

real it is for people and what they sacrifice showing up. I'm just wondering, did your desire to be on reality TV supersede your consideration for all these things? And when you talk about the desire to be on reality TV, I was talking about full circle. I was 17 years old.

I thought I was going to be on survivor. I dropped out of school because I was going to thought I was going to be on the show.

Never went on, but six months later started a charity with my friend that was on

the show, whatever. We started traveling and I wouldn't have dropped out of school if that didn't happen. I would have started the business that I started.

as a 17 year old. Started my fitness journey. That was season, I think, 32. Now it's season 50 and they're doing the celebration for the same person from the show that casting me.

So I just was referencing how I thought that was full circle. I was referencing how I thought it was so ready back then, but going into this show I didn't feel ready, right? It felt, it almost felt scary. Okay.

And as far as sacrificing what went into it, I was those three days. Those four days, all I was thinking was, I wanted to make sure that when I left this, I wouldn't, especially her family because I didn't met them yet. You know, that we would both be able to watch this and be proud of what we watched and how we treated each other.

Okay. So before I say anything else, I am going to take ownership to that. And what you just talked about, I'm not going to be around the bush.

“I'm sorry if that, playing with your motions all of this, right?”

Like this is not what the intention was. But a few days into Vancouver because I think it was very clear what we had in Whistler. And I thought that was really cool and it changed a little bit. I wanted to go home.

It didn't matter the money. It didn't matter the time. It didn't matter the screen. And you know, whatever whatever it is, you're getting paid to be on TV or you're doing this. And that didn't matter anymore.

I don't, guys, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just your words, man. I'm just, you know what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what I'm saying. I said, it doesn't matter what we're out here for.

I'm here. I don't want to be here anymore. And I'm struggling with this. And I think the next morning was the most difficult day for us, which was that shopping day and afterwards.

Well, I do want to clear up for anyone listening or watching. No one here got paid except for us. And people truly showed up sincere wanting to meet real connections and real people and see what they had in common. Quick question. Sure.

Because I have to get this off my child. I don't, this is something that I heard when we were filming. And I just want to ask if anybody else had heard this. I don't know if anybody else heard it. Sorry, Chris.

But at our mixer, the first mixer right after we got back from our one day.

One day. Yeah. There was talk that you had approached a couple, maybe just one other lady. I don't even know who it was. And said something to the effect of, hey, do you want to like make a pact to be together

so that we can get to the end? Was that true? Or did anybody else hear us? I heard it. Oh, you did.

Okay. I'm not crazy. Correct. I was approached myself with that. And I'm not going to say who it was.

But I was approached myself with that.

“And if you want to talk about packed the only thing I would ever speak about when it comes to that was my being uncomfortable”

with sleeping with somebody and talking about myself. See, which wasn't shown. That's why me and Leah were so comfortable. That's why we talked about how we, you know, moving in. We're going to have some boundaries.

Well, going all the way from several years ago. And that's not a joke. You're no longer anymore. Right now. No.

Were you guys told about it? So we did not have sex. Okay. But we didn't mess around. What's?

Okay. It's not a joke. Not a joke. But that's he digress. But yes, he, I, I've heard that alliance thing.

And I mean, I'm not trying to like. If you want to, if there's a word that I take, no, I hear it. It's rather than. I mean, I just want to explain how to speak on. On this thing that.

I brought up. Yeah. Can we get a definition of celibacy? Yeah. I need to know.

I need to know. First on celibacy. celibacy and abstinence are two different. Celibacy is a lifestyle like a none or a priest.

I mean, I'm never going to go there.

And not going to be romantic. I'm not going to do anything. Abstinence is for a set period of time. Like you're saying, well, for religious reasons or for my own clarity. I'm not having sex until this set period of time or this event.

So like with, with, um, but now she was saying, she's, she's abstinence. So there's the difference. It's often confused. But celibacy is a none or priest. That's not what we're dealing with here.

Abstinence is what we're dealing with on here. And you can be abstinent for a day. You could be abstinent for a, you know, a reason. As you all know, all the men we have close relationship. And I've talked to Chris and I.

He even said when we. In Vancouver and Hoover to me, y'all, I'm struggling. I assume that's something that between them. And they talk just like I assume any of our relationships. It's funny that the ones that have broken down.

It's communication. And it's not ages communication. And the ones that are succeeding are they, they're, they're seemingly able to communicate. Now I do feel.

“I mean, I think Theresa and John look, they, they, they, they, they loved on each other.”

Everybody, I think everybody loved on each other. I do think that Leah deserved, you know, that. And I do think that I think that the best of Chris would do that. For whatever reason that he checked out, the one person that you owed to tell, I'm checking out is to her.

But that's, this is a life thing, man. We all make mistakes.

So I, I always still give Chris grace.

But I, it's a, I guess it's a learning experience. You, I mean, this is the right of that. You know what I'm saying? So I mean, my, my first protection was vanilla. Just like his was with Theresa and his was with Libby.

I think all the women kind of sense that y'all, they had men that were in it with them. I think Leah thinks you ghost there.

“And I just think it's learn a moment of song.”

Yeah, it's fair. Uh, we do have to move on and we want to get to our, our happy couple. We do have one more big announcement to make that Chris, you will be on next season of Perfect Match. Do you hope to find your love there? Yeah, that's the plan.

That's the plan. I, I mess this one up a little bit. I'm still grateful and Leah to close that. I thank you for where we're at. Thank you for speaking your truth and hearing me.

And I'm sorry for where we're at and how long it took to get here. But, but yeah, that's the idea. And I'm going with the same mindset. I'm going to try to be myself. I'm going to try to be open.

Try to talk to, you know, as many people can't authentically. And if I find love, what a blessing. Can we expect a different Chris? I hope so. I hope you see you more authentic, Chris.

I hope you see more of me and more of my character. Pretty sure. Let's be back. I am myself. And on this show, I've been myself.

I was struggling with speaking with speaking my thoughts. And I hope that you see a better communicative Chris on the next one. For Vanessa and Logan's 20 year age difference, they found love as hot and passionate as the fourth of July. Even if it took a little while to ignite.

And as we always say here at The Vile Files, all you need is love.

Some pink lipstick in a confusing fake out proposal. That proposal is one for the ages. It was really good. I mean, you've been engaged four times to this. That's why.

That's why. You can't beat that one. And your previous four proposals and no shake. I had a few engagements before I met my lovely wife.

“But in your previous proposals, did you ever say my friends were right about you?”

I should have trusted my guy. Yeah. Yeah, no, I did not say that. Okay. Have we set a wedding date?

What is engagement looking like for you, too? No, we haven't set a wedding date. We're planning to move in first. And our bogeys next fall. So either she comes to Dallas or I go to Ohio. I've looked at jobs in Ohio or we start somewhere new.

So that's kind of a bogey. Well, I mean, again, I think, you know, watching it back. A lot of people didn't believe in you guys. Did you guys break up during filming? What was that?

I never had each other or something.

We had a little, we had a little bump in the road. Yeah, a little bit about my history. I would go on like three dates with a guy. And one of like one little thing would go wrong. And I would run away. And I did that with Chris, you know, when I was talking to Chris. I was like, that's it. I'm out of here.

And then I caught myself doing that with Logan over the whole optics thing. You know, like I was ready to shut down. And I had to come to Jesus moment where I was like, this is what you always do. You shut down. You push someone away. And we had a good conversation.

And I was like, okay, you know, there's like a guy behind here. I'm not going to run away. I'm going to push past my limitations. Okay. Well, again, you guys, you know, you're here today. You're engaged.

“How have you been able to make this relationship work?”

Just constant communication, constant understanding and compromise on both sides. I'm not going to lie and sit here and pretend like it's all been roses and butterflies. I mean, you know, we're in a distance relationship and it's been tough. And what you see on the show, you know, you see a lot of turmoil and a lot of up and down. But that's, that's, it's translated into real life.

But at the end of the day, we've always come back and met each other and strength in our relationship.

I mean, we have gone through a lot of shit in the past nine months. A lot of shit that she had her best friend died in August, her closest Aunt died right before January 1st. My dad lost his leg a month back from filming. I tore my Achilles three months from being back in Vancouver. I got surgery a month later and then I retorted again last month.

So, you know, we're facing all these hardships, but somehow we've managed to stay together. And you know, it's really, it's been awesome. Do you feel like you've both been able to really show up and be a team in those difficult moments? You know, I've been sitting here. I've been listening to, you know, I'm older.

These ladies were older. These guys were younger. You know, he's shutting down. He's not able to talk. He shut down.

He wasn't able to talk. Does that happen with Logan sometimes? Yes. But he's always able to pull himself back up after the bootstraps. I mean, he crashes out.

I crash out. We both crash out. But the end of the day, like we always come back to each other. You know, and it takes a lot of maturity on his part. It takes a lot of patience on my part.

You know, and patience on his part, too. You know, but he's always showing up for me and I'm showing up for him. I've been actually thinking about this a lot of that.

But they always say like who you marry is a really important decision.

It will change your life forever. And I look back and like where I was before I met Natalie. And just an every measurable and meaningful way. I have so much more in my life. I'm curious since you've been with Vanessa.

How does she change your life for the better? She's I hope me approach things in a way that I knew certain areas of my life. If we're going to be the same forever, like constantly going out with my friends on the weekends and just looking for the fun thing to do. You know, I know that's you know, how you live your life in your early 20s. Isn't necessarily like that's that's a short era.

And you know, since being with Vanessa, she's she's pulled me in a direction that I always knew was there for me. But I wasn't necessarily following that road. And since being with Vanessa, I've I've started thinking more of what's down the line.

“Well, what do I want more for myself? Do I want you know, my doing something short term or doing them long term?”

So she's she's helped elevate me in ways that, you know, I I've wanted to do myself. But I haven't been able to. The conversation of children was brought up when you met your parents from almost very much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vocal about how much she wanted her grandkids. Has that been a topic of discussion since you've been out of the bubble? Yeah. Well, we already got Gypsy Rose.

Yeah. That's that's my little shit. Say that. She has a black hair. She looks like we're not. Yeah.

No, and we get a lot of practice. We try every time. It's all that for the July. Yeah, all right, right. For the July.

Yeah, we're a million minutes multiple times. How did you feel about the world hearing that moment?

You know, we know. Baby, let them know. I know. It was it was it was the first time. First of all, I have been with any one of the year. I don't know how long it's been for him. So it's been a long time and so.

Tell them how it is now. It's obviously just amazing now. Obviously it's amazing.

“Well, the truth is, you know, there's a tight window between.”

Well, come on. Versus like. You know. Yeah, no, it had honestly been a while and I'm not. You know, I was just trying to. You're super into your own.

You know, yeah, I was I was ready to go and man when I saw that. I almost threw up. I started gacking. I was like, I had to pause it the other day. This is Wednesday.

And I like ran to the bathroom and I stood over the toilet.

Yeah. And I guess myself. Yeah. We say that's how I do it. Yeah, that's how I do it.

Well, they said no. They're not going to play anything. It's just for you. It's safety. It's safety.

It's safety. You got to bite the size of the window. You really said, what do you believe in? Yeah. Whatever.

I think you just got to own it, man. Oh, yeah. There's fire. Why do you think I put a ring on it? There you go. I didn't get five rings for nothing.

Is this the same ring that he gave you? Yeah. This is my ring. Yeah. We've had a little.

I wasn't able to wear it. So anyone who seen me in the last nine months. It was because of we had to keep everything quiet for the show. So obviously, we can't wedding plan. I mean, obviously, we've had all the things that we've been through.

“How do we plan on wedding when we can't even tell people about it?”

And now, you know, things are out in the open. And we can start to move forward and get things set up in the future. You know, Logan, you've got to close this thing. You know, boring engagements. You know, right?

You know, we've got to follow through. Right. Absolutely. And all seriousness, I am curious. During filming, you had opened up to Vanessa about feeling like she.

Kind of talk down to you every once in a while. And maybe that came from a place of just lived experiences. But that is obviously something that I think couples in age difference relationships. But they mean it or not, like have to kind of find that balance. Like were one person might feel like, hey, I'm just like talking about my experience.

Well, the other person feels like you're being a little condescending. How have you guys been able to figure out that balance? Like I said before, you know, it's, it's the constant communication. And Jorge kind of touched them as a little bit earlier about how, sometimes if you're not presenting things in a right way and you're getting feedback,

then you've got to take us that back and pivot and figure out a way to really really be understood with your partner. And I will say this at dinner. They didn't show it neck, but at the dinner with, you know, the infamous dinner with the recently.

It was a really good question. Vanessa, Vanessa, we talked about it after because she felt some type of way about it. You know, she was like, damn it, Nick Vile, we were cracking up about it. But it was, it was really good because that, how it was one of the things that helped me kind of show to her. What basically, I don't want to say, plead my case, but some of the influences that helped shape us.

And you know, because it's not always, I can't do everything myself.

I can't, I sometimes I, I feel a certain way when she says things.

“And I need other people to talk to Derek about, hey, what, what, what am I seeing here and what am I missing?”

And, and other people to help guide you when, you know, sometimes you're, it's just you and the other person all the time. And you can't communicate perfectly all the time, so that helps. I just, I, you know, it's funny is Logan snuck up to my room. And, you know, it's funny is we all make joke with Joe Kim, like, he's like, he and Vanessa, dang, I'm like, oh, he's last minute shot. And they have withstood the test of time.

And I think a large part of it I even think Vanessa touched on it. I'm amazed at the emotional maturity that he has shown. I mean, and he's gone through it, but he's, he stayed the course. And his communication has been phenomenal. So, I mean, I, I think that, I think they don't.

I'm going to be at their wedding. You, we're going to let you officiate. Hey, man. Oh, wow. Yeah.

And the thing is, like, I'm super OCD and he's 80 D. So it's like, you know, you put those letters together and start off with a suit, man. And Derek, Derek, no. And he lives my life. Yeah.

I show up on time everywhere.

And it's hard. And then sometimes it feels like I'm being bossy to him because I want him to hurry up and get ready or whatever. He was on time today, though. He, he did really well today. I'm very proud of him. But it, it was six feet.

I was so excited. He was so excited. He was like, wait. No. No.

No. It was only 10 minutes. That's early. Yeah. Well, again, how did it feel, obviously, Vanessa talked about, you know,

she, she had this connection with Chris for a moment versus your boy. Yeah. How did it feel watching that scene back? Oh, it's got awful. I wanted to punch him in the face.

And then when she reposted on Instagram, sorry. I was like, "Hey, come on." And he reposted it. I was like, "If you guys have ever seen this picture one more time, that was, I'm going to crash out." And it's been 48 hours.

That's what they said me. That wasn't what the marketing said. I've got a thousand pictures. That's what you put. That's what they said me.

And I'm like, "Guys, can we please, I love you. I love you." That's just a picture. You can be more of it to show without that picture. Are you posted a picture of you guys?

Can you see your white fingernails like grab a face from like, "Damn, dude, I'm about to, hmmm."

“When I call them, I'm like, "What's your while talking about the scene?”

It's not so great scene." I'm like, "Yo, you're okay. How are you feeling?" No, bro. That should suck. You would see my woman kiss another man. I'm like, "Not even to other, oh, sorry."

I'm like, "Hey, I'm gonna get you to that." I'm like, "Hey, I'm gonna get you to that." I'm like, "Hey, I'm gonna get you to that." I'm like, "Hey, I'm gonna get you to that." Sometimes you got a kiss of frog before you found a pet.

Oh, they're frog. You're frog. You're frog. No, let me put that away. No, I'm gonna get you to that." [laughter] Oh, you're there.

[laughter] Vanessa, what do you hope people learn from watching you and Logan fall in love? So, for me, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot. Like, you know, older men have been dating younger women

since the beginning of time. But older women dating a younger man is still frowned upon in society. So, like, I'm hoping that people can see this and feel like this is okay.

And we don't have to be ashamed of it. And that women could be, you know, to have all of it together and be with somebody younger. And it doesn't diminish your value or the person you're with's value.

I watched the whole thing yesterday. And at the end, everybody was talking about, like, the age difference in the age difference, the age difference.

“And honestly, the whole time I was there,”

that age thing just went right over my head. And I was like, "Was that I supposed to be thinking more about this age distance thing?" Because I wasn't, I was just like, living in the moment with this person

with a soul that I never really thought about it, you know?

And we got home and I still never really thought about it. And then yesterday, watching the episodes, I'm like, "Oh, I think I missed something here." But I'm almost kind of glad that I was oblivious to it, because it allowed me to put my guard down

and not let outside influence affect me. And since I've been home, I mean, I had a 50th birthday party. I had 150 people there. He met everyone. Not one person was like, "He's too young for you."

They loved him. They thought he was the major dea, the place. If age was affected, then we wouldn't have all the connections that we had. Exactly. The fact is, if age is affected, it's funny

to me because then all of us would have been like, "Oh, no." Just in talking because it just doesn't work. But we dispel that myth easily

and really lasting connections.

I mean, and deep connections. And so then it became just relational issues. Relation has nothing to do with.

“So that's why all these people out there”

are making their comments. I'm like, "You're lonely." Why don't you go into that? You're a home in the computer by yourself. Right.

Well, Vanessa and Logan, we obviously are just so happy that the two of you are still here together. Putting in the work. It is really beautiful to see you.

[Applause] But let us know when y'all are going. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, why can't we officially?

Yeah. We should be. We should do it. I'm not going to lose. I will put you as one of them.

I'm not going to lose. I'm not going to lose. I'm not going to lose. I'm not going to lose. I'm not going to lose.

All right. Well, before we send you all on your way, does anyone have any final thoughts or things they want to share? I do.

I'm very, very grateful for this experiment. I was single for about four years before I went into this. I was abstinent for about a year before I went into it.

And I was moving forward. I, you know, I didn't want to do that until I found somebody I really loved and I wanted to be with. And, you know, I don't know.

I said this on the show. But my mom had cancer. She was sick for two years. And she passed, like, kind of before the show. And this is just really saved me.

And I don't want to cry. I don't know how to cry. But this just really saved me. And Logan saved me. And I prayed for an angel every day.

And he is here. Yes. Your mom would be so proud. You've been true to yourself. You've been so strong.

So brave felt the whole process. So it would be very proud. I think thanks to age of attraction. Because age of attraction, the what it gave us was so much more

than just even our own connections. The connections we made, men, women.

“I think it was, it's like the gift that keeps on giving.”

And it dispeled myths that I always believed it.

So I think the age of attraction and the amazing experience, wouldn't, you know, wouldn't trade it for the world. And I wanted to give a shout out to Logan. We live in the same building. And now it's so, and it's seeing what's not really seen on the show.

But I had my question marks about them. But I've seen him grow so much. And he'll come knock on my, my door over to bottle wine. I think that talks to you. And I think that that takes a lot, man.

To say, you know what? I don't understand this part about, you know, the relationship, can you help me as a big brother? So I've seen him grow through their process. And I'm proud of him.

I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And anyone else before we wrap? Okay.

Okay. Well, I just want to thank all of you for your vulnerability, showing up. Obviously this show means a great deal to us. And what this shows about means even more.

You know, age obviously can play a role in relationships and compatibility and certainly can play a role in how we communicate or how we don't communicate.

“But that's what I love so much about this show.”

It's more about our compatibility and how we work through some of these issues and acknowledging that sometimes age does play a role when it comes to love. And are we going to allow it to be the end of our relationship or something we work through?

So to me, this show is more about understanding how we work through our challenges and our relationships. And I just want to thank you all for being so vulnerable and open. Thank you. Thank you.

You will always be in a lot to us.

We certainly hope for many more seasons. But you guys will always be number one in our hearts. Yeah. I'm going to say that in five years. Yeah.

Well, I think that just about does it for the age of attraction that season one reunion. Thank you so much to the entire cast, our team, and Netflix for giving us the opportunity to do this. It's been so much fun.

And always remember age is sometimes just a number. And sometimes it's not. But that's love for you. Yeah. Thank you, everybody.

Bye. Oh, that was great. Good job, guys. And that's a wrap.