‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Season 1 Finale and ‘Industry’ S4E7

I'm supposed to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at TheRinger.com and joining me in the studio.

He feels like he's in the room with a reptile. It's Andy Greenwald. Good morning. What's this, I mean, for people watching a video, you placed, is this my turn sheet?

No, it's my turn sheet. No, it's my turn sheet. Did the PMS get a give me this? There's a sheet of papers on that piece of paper? Yeah.

Is how much I think you're worth it? Honestly, a little behind the curtain. It's an advertisement. We just have to pay some bills around here. You cost a lot of money, you know?

I do. Also, I almost cost you money because I came in. The advertisement is for a film. Yes. And film my love.

I feel my thing is quite good. Is this the ad? No. This is the real person who endorsement. I...

Would you get my side up with CR industry? I want to, I want to, I want some accountability in this podcast. We're going to talk about industry. We're going to talk about night of the seven kingdom. Yeah.

“But I think it's time for some accountability.”

Because ever since I got Donal Gleason right, I have walked around like the king of the Gaelic pronunciations. I have, I flex all the time. What is that? What comes with that?

The king of Gaelic pronunciations. Do you get to put the Irish bars into the black stuff? Whenever I want. Yes. Okay.

I do follow a lot of creamy Guinness accounts. But so I was really ready to tell you that it's Sabrina Carpenter's ex, Boyfriend is named Barry Keegan. Like, like, not like a Lady of Kagan, right? No.

I am the... You established king of the Semitic pronunciations. I'm very comfortable. I think there's just like a little little little... Oh, and there.

No, there is. So I apologize. I mean, he's not behind me, is he?

First of all, you're apologizing to me as like representative of the Irish people.

I'm apologizing to half of you. Okay. The only in a Kagan half, I feel comfortable with the rest. No, I just, I, you know, I think it's good. I think that accountability is good.

What else is on your mind? Just like the United Kingdom, this. Unlike the United States. What else is on your mind, anything?

“Any entertainment news to have you over the weekend?”

I have been keeping up with, you know, we all have... We have our private little TV corners. I've been keeping up with drops of God. Yeah. I'm really, it's very good this season.

I'm really enjoying it. I recommend it. Speaking of private TV corners, it will come as no surprise that I have consumed the fifth season or shore sea already. It was released over the weekend on Hulu.

Another... Another banger, another masterpiece. So how many, these are short seasons, right? Yeah, six episodes of about 22 minutes each. That's right.

So sitcom at length. That's great. And not this week, I think next week, Jason Mansook is a Malar ribbon. We'll be joining me to discuss that season.

But I think the first and last episode of this season

or among like the best TV you can see on TV. Or on your computer. We want me to watch the new season. I watch you. I just wanted you to watch the first episode of this season

as an exemplar of its power. You can't... You don't want to curate a different kind of ice hockey experience. I want me to watch like season two episode four. Because that's the one.

That's the one. A lot of work for me. To go back to my current experience. You said last episode that you are basically Dr. Jack Abbott. Like in your free time, you just do a more hardcore version of what you do.

No, since my free time, I take down Wells Fargo bridges. Oh yeah, we talked about that. I want to talk to you about... Fair. These two shows from Sunday night.

Uh-huh. It was the final episode of the Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Yeah. But it was more of a exhale, a coda for that series. Whereas industry is reaching a fever pitch.

Okay. So I'm happy to do...

Whichever one you want to do first and then we could do watch after dark after we discuss that.

All right. But which one would you like to say first?

“I think because we've been having such juicy passionate industry conversation.”

Yeah. I think let's talk night. Oh, okay. And then say industry to like revive us. Well, let's have our little...

Yeah. Night's not... There's nothing boring about night. You know? There's... there's a controversy.

We got nine kingdoms instead of seven. Okay. Well, so do you want to start with the like the critique, the commentary, the vibes, or should we just delve right into the... No, I want to do critique commentary.

The fake news. It's delivered at the end. The horror. I did text you that immediately. Yeah.

I think I had a pretty good answer. Do you... what would... does this change in any way your opinion on land acknowledgments in Westeros? We stand on... and all. On door... a door to scrap territory.

No. I mean, I think it was a... If my... if I understood Malon and Joe correctly last night on... on talk the throat and the house far. Yeah.

I think it had more to do with dorns only like recently being acknowledged

Okay. But then still wouldn't have been eight. And then there's another one. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah. Those all so good. Like it's just like the Targaryens are politically needing to depend on other people. I think.

So let me put this.

So it's basically like when President AOC makes Puerto Rico

and Washington DC states. Is that... Because I'm into that. Is that put in terms that I want? It's a cool Tumblr post.

I... I'm gonna say... Um... Okay. All right.

“Were you satisfied by the conclusion of this season?”

I loved this episode. Okay. I loved the season. The opening seconds of this episode. Maybe my favorite 30 seconds of thrones content.

It's unbelievable. Danielings as Lionel Baratheon. But Danielings as Lionel Baratheon with the shit-master. Yeah. Looking down on a grievously injured dunk.

Well, Miles Davis plays, I believe. Now, just again, a little back the curtain. Your boy likes to relax with a little mid-century jazz going on the son of the weekend. And when I fired this up last night,

one time, two times, three times was I like, "Oh, I see my Sunday vibes playlist has continued." And that's how you... And you denied Dan Roamer's string. You thought that your music was playing through...

Because I didn't... I still, despite six weeks of the show, just didn't assume playfulness. Yes. And innovation and wit and all of the...

The lightness, not in tone because the show was quite elegant. We have been talking over and over again, that there are rules to this shit. You cannot break. And you know...

I think you could make it a completely valid argument. Like, well, that takes... Having jazz takes me a little bit out of the moment. But it's also like this sense of humor and

“sensibility that I think this franchise is really never had before.”

It's just giving me life. I thought that whole scene was so delightful and so funny. And in miniature, a wonderful representation of how... Limitless storytelling in this world could be.

I've never felt that way.

We had eyes. We carried... Well, it could be some allergies, I don't know. I... We've covered the show in this universe for well over a decade.

And as much as I've loved it, I've never been like... This is... I'm building a vacation home, maybe in Dorn. But you know what I mean? This episode and the way that...

That I reparker the sensibility that he's brought to it. Keep them coming. Keep the spin-offs coming. Keep this show going. And for the first time, I was like...

Slightly frustrated that... Game of Thrones... Like... Star Wars we've talked about this before... Is a fictional history.

Meaning... There's like... There's limits to what can happen. Right. Because I don't want one.

Because I want a 10-year Game of Thrones show about egg becoming a man. And then King, which, you know... I know there's some...

“You can spoil things in the future if you want.”

I don't want to. I don't want to either. But I... I loved it. And I loved just the wit and the brevity.

I... I love a hard cut. This is the needle drop. The catch-22 of the way we make franchise storytelling now is that... We are over relying on prequels and...

And fictional histories. Because the roadmap is so clear. Because there's these points along a timeline that we can follow. Because for hardcore fans, There's an expectation that we're going to see...

The right wedding or we're going to see... Cassie and Andy were... Get plans or whatever it is. But... At the same time, there is like a kind of like...

There's a limit to the pleasure.

Because you never know...

You know... You're never part of an audience who completely... Doesn't know what's going to happen and doesn't know where it's going. And even with something... It's sort of wondrous.

Frankly, it's night of the seven kingdoms. You're right. You want to just read the books or if you just look at... Like a glancing... History of the Targaryen...

You know, real a family. You'll find out. You could find out what happens at this kid. Yep. Which makes it...

I mean, there's some... There's some interesting things that happen with that, too. Because then you're like... Look at this little guy, man. Who would have guessed it?

You know? Like... I love what when parent corner comes out with you. There are kids who would happen. I wanted to just shout out...

You and I are big... British character actor appreciators. I know where you're going. So I just want to say... Inx...

Obviously... You know, he was great in the gentleman. He's doing a like... Wonderful, flamboyant kind of... You know, just...

Pist... Prince... Who drinks a lot and probably thinks that he should be... And his family should be the ruling family of the realm. Or wisely, is like...

Fuck that. It's better to be rich than to be parents. Well, he's... Well, he's... Well, he's...

But I think... Blinal in this episode specifically and across the... series has been the one chirping the most about like... Maybe the Targaryen town is kind of coming to an end.

And then... Sam Sproul... Who... I... I love as an actor.

“Who's great in this last season of Fargo.”

And has been asked to not ask to.

But has largely had... Two or three really good lines per episode as he sits back and lets... You know, Baylor and... And Aryan and everybody else cook. His scene with Dunk when he asks him to take his kid...

On the... You know, take his kid. But not go on the road to come back to summer hall. Learn at summer hall kind of be... Be as minor in the absence of...

Not only Baylor but Aryan who's going to be... Exiled. And he's like... What he's asking has nothing to do with what he's talking about. Because what he's really talking about is his brother being dead.

Yeah. And he's just got the lightest witness to his eyes as he's talking. Like me. And it's just... The lightest witness.

That's right. It's just pollen. Uh... He's...

It's just a remarkable job to be like...

I'm on the bench for five weeks and then when you need me I come in and do that. It is... Essentially unfair to do what I'm about to do. Because... House of the Dragon and Night of the Seven Kingdoms are not the same genre of television.

They're said in the same world. They're said in the same IP. They're said on different points on the same chair to historical timeline. But it is essentially like comparing the way you can use real estate, you know, shrinking versus the agency.

Like they are... They are shrinking the television shows. Yeah. Or any sort of light emotional contemporary comedy. They are different.

And they have different aims and they have...

“different real estate, honestly, in terms of what they can build out.”

Um... But I didn't think about that when I was watching that scene. Not just a character who had been in the background, stepping into the light and deserving the spotlight for that moment, actor and character.

But the scene was specifically about how this man feels about the events that have just transpired and his relationship to his children, which predates in the fictional world, our understanding of those children. Yeah. And in that moment, I thought about how House of the Dragon is coming back after a renewed absence.

And I don't know who any of these people's children are. Now, I am not the best viewer of that show. I'm not pretending that I am. Well, it's also been a while. Yeah.

And it's been a while. But they have... They each side of that conflict had a bunch of kids. And then they're all flying dragons and they're eating each other and they're inspiring. And they are playing...

It's very hard to shake the sense that each of those kids, those characters, is a widget on an abacus of story, as opposed to living, breathing children within a family that has a dynamic that has to carry on. You don't want to ask you a question. Yeah.

You've worked on different kinds of adaptations and different capacities. House of the Dragon is obviously based on a subjective history told from multiple POVs, but very much a history and has got a lot less text, a lot less humor, a lot less. Maybe even character development.

“I think that there's a little bit more of just description of like this guy was like this.”

And it's not as much working with POV the way George are Martin usually does like in the Throne's novels. And I think in Duncan Egg, like it's very strictly told from Duncan Egg's like even their internal monologues, like are the governing principles. Do you think that we're maybe seeing something where it's like you know,

we often think what you need is Martin's playbook to get to the end of the,

you know, his script did kind of first 15 plays to get there.

Yeah. But maybe what you do need is the emotional character development right of it. Like more than that. Yeah. I mean, we are still the wrong messengers for this,

but I am curious to understand that point better because obviously his writing is quite popular. And makes people who years before HBO adapted Game of Thrones, made his writing made readers who may be fantasy of verse or thought themselves as fantasy of verse, fallen love with the books and become obsessed with the characters. And I think that's largely to do with the way he told the character stories.

And I do remember this from being shouted at on the internet, that those books are POV books, that shift POV section section chapter chapter, among a wide variety of the characters we came to know in Game of Thrones. Yeah. So the fact that that was potentially the was absent,

tone, voice, character, emotion, and that had to be backfilled into what was to your point. Essentially like looking like a Kirk Goldsbury shot clock of a Dragon War, not shot clock, shot chart. Sorry, Kirk. That's weird stray from to catch apologies.

Just like there's a compliment to Kirk. Yeah, I hope so. But possibly not to the writing of how's the Dragon. Well, I, I, I, leaving the writing out of it,

That was the brief to fill to fill it out. Imagine the game that went on, the created this beautiful shot chart. Well, you see what happened between Condol and Martin Ryan Condol, the showrunner and sort of creative driving force behind out of the Dragon and Martin.

“And I think some of it might be the choices that Condol made,”

but on the flip side of that, it's like, he had to make some choices. He had to make some decisions about what these people would do and say and think. In the moments in between the events that we know that they participated in. And in his defense, someone, you know,

I've never met him or spoken to him.

I don't think you have either like the amount of pressure that he and that production was under from the beginning is immense, immense, not all showrunners are under immense pressure. That's the nature of the job. But if you do go back and think about the moment when, as you like to mention, you know, that the, the first spin-off didn't make it really passed the,

they, they shot a pilot. Blood moon. Yeah. So codename blue moon. I can remember what was actually going to be called.

I think I think it was TBD, what it was going to be called, that they never, they never, they never did. So the, listen, to Monday. I, it had been off the air for a minute. Yeah.

And part of the return of investment to shareholders was let's get more drag and up there. And so that was a really tough, I would imagine, creative crucible to put something on the air. Yeah. And by all metrics that matter internally,

it's been a success.

Like that first season, one, the golden, didn't win.

Didn't win the Emmy or just the golden glow. I don't even remember at this point. But it was the first season. And I think it won Best Drama Golden Globe. So because that was the,

Emma Darcy and Olivia Cook went up on. We'll make it up. Yeah. It was a bunch of part of the show. Yeah.

Anyway. Yeah. One, it won the Emmy for drama series. Yeah. For its first season.

That was, I think that's what we were thinking of. I was about to say, well, it was COVID. It was 2024.

“But the reason I don't remember that is probably the vaccines though, right?”

It's probably. That's probably it. Lucky you. Yeah. You've got another one to us this weekend.

Can you tell? Just for fun. Anyway. It's always imperfect. Getting these things up on their feet.

But you do get the feeling that there was whatever, whatever, creative calm, George Iro, all of our good friends. We're able to carve out for themselves in the making of the show. It's remarkable. It's completely, it's a, it is a completely different tone.

And it is welcoming and exciting and expansive in a way that I just, it's just caught me totally off guard. Yeah. I mean, I would, there's not really much use in speculating where it goes from here because it's quite easy to just find out what the second develop is about. But I do think it's worth noting that I believe they're in production right now on it. And that it'll be back probably around the same time next year, depending on the effects needs or whatever.

As this shows sort of proven, you can do a lot within this world that doesn't involve needing. A ton of graphics. A ton of special effects for dragons and stuff like that. I don't want to be spoiled either, but it does seem like they're writing off to Dorn. And yeah, I guess so.

I would just like to say that would be like drops of God's season three for me. Like too much, too much drops? No. Stop the drops. Open the tap.

“But what do you know about Dorn at the time period?”

Who cares? Dorn as good weather. Libertine attitudes and lots of wine. Like, there is plenty of tape of me advocating for Game of Thrones characters to just cut the shit and move to Dorn. And to be an under the Tuscan sun? Yes.

Yes. If Arya had gone south instead of east, she would have been like, the other cover. She would have been the cold kidman. That famous breakup photo. She would have been so happy. I think things are better there.

I think things are quite nice there, you know, but that's not where the seed of power is. That's not where the decisions get made, which is also fine. Yeah. Get away from those seats. The seats also are not fixed.

When the powerful people who usually fill those seats, go to nowhere's bills like Ashford.

Look what happens. We had an interesting conversation on TTT on talk the phones about the casting for the season was so good. Mm-hm. It almost makes you a no way that in all likelihood. Finn Bennett, Danielings, Sam Sproul, will probably not if not not appear in the next season.

Yeah. Probably not play a very big role because if you're shooting this from Dunkin eggs perspective. Yes. And they are on the road away from these people. We're not going to get cutaways to see what Finn Bennett is doing in the free city.

But this is what I mean. There has been a move towards in the last few years in film and television. You want to control as much as you can control, especially with a cost going the way they are and the amount of, you know, the competition for attention. So adaptations, strict adaptations, adaptations that come from fictional historical timelines are seen in the development process as an incredible boon.

Because you have some guardrails around whatever the cookie creatives you hire choose to do.

This season is so successful on every by any metric, including just old fashioned TV metrics of, man, I love this crew. I can't wait for them to get together again and see where their adventures take us, including the villains. Again, wherever our area gets up to you, that you want a completely free glide path for them. You want them to make this show about these people.

It's some point I may actively advocate for this, but I'm not saying now I reparker as proven. He can ditch the books. I'm not saying that they're apparently lovely novellas to pull from. But they're already as a part of me and I would be very curious about how the internal discussions are going. To build on it, to build further.

To me, it would be the bigger fear.

“And I don't think they'll let this happen because I think that they know what kind of reaction there would be is what happened to Mandalorian,”

which was a very cool adventure of the week story with a serialized tale about this bounty hunter and his charge. And then they just could not resist bringing Luke Skywalker in. I think this is a, I think it's a great point. And so I don't think young Ned Stark even chronologically can show up and just be like,

First of all, he can't because the actor who played young Ned Stark, I believe, is Daniel Aramayo,

who just won a bathed up for best actor over all of the American gods that we could. So he's a little bit busy. I've got him in the tower. I don't think the show can afford him. It's really interesting. It's kind of reversed though because it's an imperfect comparison or to try and build on,

but I think what was exciting. Yeah, Mando went free. It's the first. It was just like John Favreau's like this would be cool. Yeah. And we built out and he was inspired by like Frank Frisetta paintings and like the same kind of older genre entertainment.

I'm not on my way. But then it got, then it got caved in by Canon. And I think what I'm arguing is this season was shaped by Canon. It is other than the flashback and a few other, you know, little filigries. It is essentially a really really successful adaptation of a beloved novella.

Yes. I'm saying. Oh, go. What's the name of the horse that he gives away? Sweet food.

Yeah, right. Right. Sweet food. The apple and go. Eat the apple and go.

Let me say it again.

That's how I talk to horses.

Do you have a lot?

“Do you have like, do you go to Griffith Park and just chat with them?”

I free them. I go up to the horse path. Have you watched that show on HBO and Neighbors at all? No, doc, yeah. It's about neighbors in this great country of ours beefing.

And one of one of the plotlines is about in Montana, I believe. Some free range folks arguing about where horses are allowed to roam. It's interesting. Yeah. Would do we have rules about that?

Uh, you know what, when you get out west, it's like the rules get written by a couple of different people. There's the rules. Are you talking about like Marvista? No, we're Kylie. How far West do you have to go?

I live in Marvista. No. No.

But Kylie lives in, sorry.

Kylie lives on the west side. Yeah. We're not trying to do that. We're not trying to do that. We're trying to do that.

Sorry. I don't know how we ended up there. But 17 women at a wine barn. Marvista. Where is Kylie?

I was told she'd be here. My favorite wine barn is in Marvista. Oh, also, do your woman voice in. There was awesome. The shrieking heartbeat.

She was looking for a guy. Yeah. That was great. Anything else about to show you when I had up? I don't know if it's canon.

And I just tip my hat to whomever came up with this idea. Whether it was George Martin a few years ago, or whether it was Ira Parker. But the twist at the end that egg did not get permission. Yeah. There's a couple of nobody else was there.

So nobody knows what happened moments. I think the egg not getting permission. Right. I asked Joe and Mal if it's possible that Makears okay with this.

But is presenting to his like, a send a send, you know, the collected assembled court. He's like, oh, where's my son? Damn it. You know, that's kind of interesting.

It didn't seem like that. You know, so Ireland didn't night dunk. Or at least doesn't seem like he did. Incredible scene. And dunk, egg is not gotten permission to go with dunk.

Yeah.

“So how much will these moments that only one or two people were present for in the first place?”

Why not impacting the totality of the story? Probably a lot. As someone who, you know, was really birthed in the crucible of Grantland dot com and really defines himself as being the next point of sports and pop culture.

Are there any famous? I'm literally wearing a band t-shirt and a hat. No, I know. You're so unique in Los Angeles right now. There are no men over 40 with that particular comedy.

You guys do the right now in the city. Yeah.

and watch night of the seven king incident.

It's industry last night. Literally everyone at school drop off.

“Just to start local and then building it out.”

Yeah. Well, you say this is a top five show for you. Does it feel like a top five show without, you know, obviously seeing the next nine months of television. I think it's a top 10 show.

I think we'll, I think we'll see. But I, I just want to leave on the idea. I want to leave the way the show left me, which is the feeling that really special for seasons. Yeah.

Leave you with. Yes. Where you just can't believe they touched lightning. And they made it work the way they did. And all that hard work and years of development

and then a year of post production.

“Did you have any critiques to this episode?”

Of this episode? No, I was just delighted by it. There you go. I was delighted by it. You know, we were talking about this in terms of and what we're about to talk about it again in terms of covering shows week to week without going ahead.

In the fullness of the season. Whatever criticisms I had about the, the brutality of the battle or the flee bottom flashback are now weighted with how the show ends, which just helps you re, it, it just helps you understand what the journey was all along.

And so I am less critical of that.

You know, it didn't. When you're watching week to week, there's a sense of that kind of savagery and violence. And also flashbacking stuff. Oh, our two roads diverging here. Yeah.

Is that where the show is going? And it was just kind of a quieter beginning. No, the show reestablished what it is with its, you know, it's an agronistic needle drops. And it's sense of humor and night of the nine kingdoms and all that. And, you know, it is one of those feelings that we're chasing, whether it's the pit or whether it's the bear or something kind of comes out of nowhere.

This is obviously heavily hyped. But in terms of what it ended up being, it absolutely surprised me. Yeah, I don't think that anybody, I mean, to bring back the feeling of those early game of throwing seasons in a completely different sensibility. Yeah. And to to make you feel like for 30 minutes or an hour or whatever that you're like completely transported while also.

Making like little jazz jokes or digestion jokes or whatever. It's the deal that the deal with the devil that shows make over time is. That sense of what you're going to earn back on your investment and like the big market spikes and with Game of Thrones. I haven't done a rewatch. And I wonder.

Is he, well, I'm curious what, what he'll say about it because the real attraction that those early years of Game of Thrones and the way it was marketed and sold to HBO fans was more the. But yes, it's fantasy and swords, but it's people in rooms talking and it's, you know, it's the same kind of infighting backstabbing as the sopranos or whatever. Yeah, as the show went on, whether it was the beginning, it was the quiet murmuring of the book crowd saying, just wait, just wait for some big shit coming.

And then you get the sense of one of those big things is about to happen. And then the red wedding would happen in the world would feel different in TV would be different. But the equation over time is there's going to be a big thing. It's going to be a big event, wait till the dragon show up, wait till this battle occurs, wait till wait till, you know, hard home or whatever it might end up being. And we are already in that place with House of the Dragon, whether it's because of the type of show it is, whether it's because of the way we had covered Game of Thrones.

Within the way they structured the second season where it's like obviously you guys are marching off to a battle.

And if you just cut to after the battle and we just see a battlefield like I think people would be pretty disappointed. And I think that if you did a poll of night of the seven kingdoms fans, I think they are excited to see the further adventures of Duncan egg. Yes. And I, and is there going to be another big jousting tournament or fight? I couldn't hear less because of the night-squired thing.

I think that these guys did a lot of tournaments. You know, like, there's opportunity for those things. But I'm saying there's no fan who's like, I'm tuning in because of blank events or the expectation of a noisy event. That's just not the relationship with the show and that is so successful. Both in terms of the quality of the show and honestly in terms of the production budget.

Yes. For Netflix Paramount HBO, whoever is going to end up paying for the show. This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else.

“But that's what some of the best films are about.”

An outcast, striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. From us, from VW, from the other outcasts out there, take a chance. Make the most of every day and don't be afraid to view off course every now and then. Because if you don't do it now, then win.

Learn more at vw.com. HBO has a little bit of a recipe where they do a huge penultimate episode. And then the finale is a quota. I think we kind of learned that all over again on Sunday night where I would consider this a pretty significant industry. And one that I think had the best handle on the more genre aspects of the series and show this season was seen in this episode.

And I kind of divided our talking points here up into different pairs and different characters and storylines.

Would you like to say anything at the top? Yes, I would like to begin giving opening statement, Pam Bondi voice. Hold on. Let me get my teacher notes. Quite the opposite.

Let me say I thought this was an outstanding episode of industry.

“I think this was probably the best episode of the season.”

It was a joy to watch.

I'm excited to talk to you about it.

Like I was saying about the finale of night of the seven kingdoms. It helped me recalibrate some of my concerns or feelings or whatever about the previous run of episodes. I also want to bring it in conversation. Something that we said on Thursday. I'm sure everyone listening listens to everything we say.

So it might be redundant. Give me a little refresher course. When we were talking about the pit. We were talking about how one of the true expert moves of veteran writing staff is being able to take the temperature and be cognizant of the temperature of a potential future audience. I brought it up in context of I was noticing that people were starting to turn on Santos.

And this week right as that discourse was happening independent of the show online read it or whatever. They give her a moment to showcase the Decide of herself or humanity she sings. We read just similar place with Dr. Al Hashimi. Last week, I think the same episode. Thursday we were talking about.

“I think constructively about some of the things we missed about the show or the way the show has changed or my industry by repeating different.”

And one of the point I brought up was how the construction of the show and the first seasons with peer point.

Gave and gave characters and thus the audience an opportunity to go off-book to go home to present a different part of themselves away from the office. Those parts weren't necessarily better shiny or nicer less manic or less staged or performed. Yeah, but they were different and it gave us different insight and a different tempo. I said that about like veteran shows and then this week industry gives us Harper and he has his night out for the ages. And that's the first thing you jumped on as it is what's talk about.

It's not. I think we'll end up talking about that. But I was just noting that as someone who someone who I think is of the two of us more of an anxious watcher of everything. But when you say that what you mean is if it doesn't feel good you immediately note it like you're not like they might correct this in 10 seconds or 10 minutes. I begin to and I am prone to catastrophizing perhaps in everything not just in cultural criticism. But it feels like they were whether intentionally or unintentionally and it felt intentionally because of the you know, Eric and Harper living and working in the same claustrophobic space. They were moving away from that dynamic.

“Perhaps with and I think you made it this point articulately like that's actually the point that their lives have now just become.”

They're perpetually on this nightmare hamster wheel and there is no distinction anymore and so I felt reassured I guess I want to say not because it did the thing I wanted it to do. But because it was a reminder that we have showrunners who are thinking big picture, who are just trying to execute the days trades and that's not I was into the episode well before that that scene happens you know in the last quarter. It's almost like a. A code for a different version of the show. Yeah, or like a homage to a different version of the show I keep going back to what Haley said to Yasmin in the elevator.

That's a couple of weeks back which was nobody gets out of this alive. Yeah, so that can mean many different things whether it's actually death murder as it has already on the season or it can just mean the version of yourself that you thought was true is dead, you know, and I think maybe that's more an example of what happened to. In the previous episode and we are watching it take place with Henry we're in this episode so let's start with the two people tearing Henry apart which is Whitney and Yasmin for different reasons.

Yeah, as in Henry like they opened up the episode with the that was all the money we had Henry Karen Hill argument not even an argument it's just really like these two people looking at a letter that is essentially a death notice. Yeah, I don't think it was any indication that she hadn't changed her name but I think there's a moment when Harper says her name. I mean I think he bounced you kind of half of the benefit of marrying somebody like Henry is to be like I'm Lady Mach now or your name in the mock. Yeah, I mean what could be better. I thought that the best line in this little exchange was why are we talking about money again the public perception of my morality is on the block to take this with the the spirit is intended or whatever reasons but nobody gives a fuck about how you come out of this was perfect because it is the two elements of that class of person that that sort of like yeah.

Every every other conversation I've ever had is like we don't have the money to do that we don't have the money to do that I don't have the money to give you I don't have the money to make this happen and then there are like six guys who were like well money you can just kind of blink twice are those conversations called the rewatchables. No I don't know. Okay, I just this is safe there's no one no one's listening very generous guy. I say it's camera. It's a more VISTA over there.

He's thinking about investing in wine bars. I just thought that this was incredible because it's like of course somebody like Henry is concept of cash or like what's in your bank account is

completely divorced from Yasmin. Even though Yasmin also comes from a publishing dynasty, but it's different, but she's like alone now. You know her father's dead the family member when the person the clerk and when he played earlier in the year is obviously like that part of her life is gone. She's no longer an investment banker working in the financial sector. She's trying to make her name for herself is a comms director kind of she is not Harper as as he's mentioned at the end she is not but it gets down to also like.

The important thing for Henry is that she understands that no one cares about lady muck yep and most of all him you know like take this with what how it is intended but like you're not the main character here.

“I think that whole scene was pretty close to brilliant and in execution writing and performance and I was drawn to the subsequent lines because again one of the things that I think we've always really admired about the show is that”

making Conrad are exceptional at writing to them to the moment, but they also write to the the rafters they write to you know in the British theater it's called the gods. Yeah, we're sitting really high. I don't know if you've you've been to the theater. I have regularly yeah. They are writing for they're not unaware of the medium and the history and history of the medium that they're writing for and so they know what they're doing when they have a character like Henry say I am a good person.

Sure, that is everyone from Don Draper to the dude from low winter some already from those are looking in a mirror being like no I will just say what what does it stay.

Guys from bloodlines and you keep going. He says I'm a good person and the world will tell that back to me otherwise what am I doing here. Yes, what am I for why be a good person unless you get any gratification from being a good person unless you get any affirmation.

“All validation is external. Yes, which as people who work in the media on camera we know nothing about certainly this is actually I mean I don't think maybe they did maybe they didn't I I basically hit pause on this because I think what this show”

Get that sometimes is like what would your morality be if there was no reward for it if no one was watching what what would you do if what this season has been about perception points of emphasis the name of the episode the story the narrative the television show who who's going to write this if it's in a red top or if it's in a broad sheet or if it's on a blog.

How does that change what happens with the narrative like it's not about this is the right or wrong thing to do it's about how will it be perceived.

Well, so to and so directly to that point Jenny Bevin's journey. Is that she's the the government minister who went tempted with the the apple the garden of Eden basically or the snake literally a room full of snakes and she can get out of this alive if she berries her mentor. And she has done play by Chloe Perry right who we like a lot as an actor she says she can't do it. That she didn't do it she has her dark night of the soul moment there and she decides she has to be moral the outcome. You know, she says like you're a basically a Tory just a congratulations on your on your like promotion or your career you Tory yeah so that is an example of what what benefit do you get if you have a quiet moral victory.

Yeah, everything externally is still the same on the other side of Henry is Whitney.

“We've talked a lot about maximum hell as performance this season I think I've been a pretty vocal fan of it.”

Yeah, I thought he was extraordinary in this episode and I think that as Whitney becomes more.

Really in real time this peer point merger acquisition that he wants tender to conduct one of the great observations of this is that compulsive liars are always like I'm telling the truth starting now.

“It's a big thing like to be like everything that we did before led to this point at which point we can now become.”

The golden sacks of the 21st century if you just believe me one last time and do this thing. Yes, all great empires were built on some type of fraud and what we find out is that even in that moment where he's like I'm the fucking man. I've been buying all these synthetic positions and peer point because I'm a financial genius we find out at the end of the episode complete horses. Yeah, complete bullshit and that they were just trying to basically push this over the line to get this to a place where.

Whether it's the US or England or the you or wherever it was going to have to be audited and all the jurisdictional problems that they were going to have with the sort of regulation of this company by the time they got to the point. They'd be like, well, it's too big to fail now, right? Like we have. There's too many Gen Z years out there who are first coming to us with their banking needs. You know, it's like complete bullshit, but it's actually like sounds very close to things you read about in the newspaper paper.

There's a let's talk about this scene. There's a quote that is also I mean, there were a lot of quotes to be pulled out and printed out and maybe we should just do that for when we finally decorate the studio. She just wants to get that metric sprinter and just print out inspiration. It says you can't construct a universe where nothing is real or just something about like your husband's cock and big like Zaph Chancery. You know, which podcast is this of the one they're not putting on Netflix. Now we know why.

No, the Whitney's quote, there's a misalignment between the velocity of my vision and the velocity of regulation.

Then later this is that gap is where smart people have always made money.

“That's true. That's how you write a liar. You give him some truths.”

Yes. I also really appreciated sometimes sometimes like it, you know, what is it when something in history rhyme? You know, like when the art meets the moment and the way that the way that Kitt Harrington physically reacts to the words jail time. The week that Prince Andrew has been arrested and made to feel really potentially real consequences to a life poorly lived. Yes.

Was interesting because there is a word is you said there's always more money. There's always more stuff. It's really just about perception and validation.

I guess there's always a harpsichord for him to go back to, but jail time cuts through.

I think it's jail time. I think it's also you can't claim naivete twice. Like you can't do loomy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to make the world a better place. Kitt Harrington's what the fuck face where it looks like he's got acid reflux of plum line coming up through like the bottom of his soul. And you know, his sort of the way he looks at him.

When he says Yasmin thinks that when they're on the plane later on, he's like, Yasmin thinks you have footage of us. Yes. And he's like footage of you doing what and he's just like, you know, compromise, compromise and position.

“And when he kind of just looks at him over his glasses, which I didn't remember him ever using before.”

And just goes, what do you think and Kitt Harrington's just like, yes. Right. And that means he's so fucked because it was such an immediate yes. Yes. And he says it with such defeat and Whitney's just like then you're here to.

And the way he says that back to him is so non threatening and just kind of like, this is obvious. Well, you just get to the fucking board here that we're playing the actual game on. I just thought that whole exchange was so great.

And the two of them have developed over the course of the season, this incredible intimacy.

Yeah. And when they're fighting, they're, well, so much of love on industry is spoken to the language of fighting. Yes. Historic. Yasmin Harper, great example.

Exactly. So the intimacy is intimacy in a world that is so deadened to the possibility of real feeling, real emotion, real intimacy, hatred, anger. That's currency. And that's been a, that's been a core belief of the show all along. The show also got back to some of its more elite needle drop tendencies.

We moved on from the Yasmin and Henry scene where she's, where she comforts him. But then is awake all night. Well, a promise by when in Rome plays. Yeah. I did wonder when Whitney before they get on the plane says like,

Believe in us one more time.

“Did you think like that would have been a good place for Hamilton needle drop for the George Washington, like one more time song?”

I think that might have been a little bit more abrasive than jazz in the night of the seven kingdoms though. I'm just making up the ideas here. Pitch and you stuff. There's just something about this episode where I just felt like the fellow's grabbed hold of all of the, all of the threads that they had unleashed into the world. They grabbed hold of them and, and wove them.

And wove them in a way that was consistent with the season because this episode had the pulse pounding conspiracy. It's got lady in the garage with the Fernne. It has that energy that they've been chasing all season and they've been very popular. If you were on the back seat with him in the, in the Jeep that they'd get pull Whitney into in New York. It looks a lot like Coran Regrive who is in my mind.

I remember from in the name of the father as the detective who basically, I, I don't know, I just didn't see that act.

Yeah. Um, but that was just a great face to have in the back seat where he's like, you basically exist with their permission. But even that energy is shot through the, you know, the, the peer point meeting and so they have that. But it also had these larger series long themes of death of innocence of, of, overwhelmed, overwhelmed kids trying to survive the death of late period capitalism. It's like, let me go.

“He's like, how about you guys let me get on a plane?”

And that, you know, it's like an almost like child like, what if I told you that the, a dog ate my homework kind of like response to the Russian mom and Russian government being like. And there is a looming feeling of that, that again, it rhymes with our life that you cannot escape. You cannot put your phone away. You cannot be untethered from the marketplace. You cannot move on.

You cannot quit things. Um, Eric is proof of that this season. And you could sort of like, this, this is also the, the, the, the, the glory of storytelling hindsight. But like in the glow of this episode, Eric, once again, thinking he could fly very, very, very close to the sun and remain mostly unburned feels different hits different. I appreciate that.

I appreciate that. My read of what Fernanda saying and one of the things that I love about the FSB subplot of the season is that they're not explicitly laying out things because I don't think that would benefit the characters who are speaking. Obviously the mouth. But my understanding based on the show, but also based on like reading about wire card similar kind of actions that the FSB is alleged to have taken. I don't know why I'm being so good.

Who were these people with money? I even read my ad yet. It's the FSB. My God. What make friends and influence people?

Yeah. Great. Is that it's the success of tender is secondary to the survival of it because what they want is the personal spending habits to the digital information, social security numbers.

“What are you spending on vices? What are you doing like, you know, I think Whitney mentions tender has become like this huge banking app for younger people.”

That's probably very attractive. So like, I don't necessarily think they're looking to collapse the Western economy. As much as they are looking to manipulate the people who participated. The thing that is really, really resonant and horrifying and compelling about contemporary spy fiction. And this is why we keep talking about Oliver Harris, a writer that we love a lot is because he and this storyline in industry are reflecting the reality of a world in which traditional espionages are relevant because everybody gives it away. It's all being given away. It's all for free. So it's just a question of who is able to

Receive the data and then play with it. If it's not about getting the data anymore. Honestly, if people want to see something extraordinary that's not like the wire card, it's not as rooted in like financial malfeasance or you know, moving numbers around Josh, we offer wrote a piece in the New York or a couple of weeks ago about the rise of the single use agent in the wake of the.

Oh, she's amazing. So he's fucking incredible. Yeah. It's basically about a bunch of people now that like there's been this incredible explosion of.

You crane a refugees leaving young people who are level of left Ukraine, but also all of them sort of open border running around this and going on in eastern Europe. That Russia has been using people in dire straits using multiple cutouts so that it's never actually traceable back to like the lieutenant at the FSB who wanted me to light an Ikea on fire and Warsaw. And it's all being used over telegram and it's all like go to a bus station pick up this duffel bag.

You know, and it's an extraordinary portrait of like also on the other hand, they want Russia in this article is like, well, we want you to know it's us, but we don't want you to ever be able to prove it and we want to keep what we're doing below the level of a military retaliation. It's task rabbit for terrorism. Yeah.

“It's it's everyone who works in any field has had a version of the conversation in the last 10 years where it's like, well, we're all Uber drivers now.”

Yeah, not to disparage Uber driving.

It's just to say that all of us who used to think we're part of some sort of safety net, we're all just gig, we're all just gig workers who will never retire.

Well, if you have a body. It's just a fascinating way to sort of wirecard more high, high finance world is this is more like guys just getting on buses in Poland because a telegram message told them to. And it's guys in band T shares and sports sets or you don't want to increment it yourself. I want to stand the FSB thing for one moment. Oh my god.

I mean, I know this is my guy. I'm just a fan of when the game is played well. Yeah, I'm a fan of the great powers.

I love putting sticking with his roots, you know.

I think that there are. By the way, I did not fall out of window this week. Just so you know, nor did you have any desire to come close to radiation. My breaks work great. Yeah.

That's right. You just made vacation plans. Very smart. Not funny, but you know. So I am still not fully.

But clearly from just what we were just saying, I love the shit and I want all shows to be spy shows whether they are actually spy shows or not. I still. I still am. Kind of on the fence about the necessity of. Whitney going full FSB asset and wanting to go off grid with his Lithuania passport this season.

Here, let me talk you through this because I think some people are some, I think it's possible that some fans the show bump on this aspect of the storyline because it is pushing the show so fully into a different realm. Though history and news headlines prove that these realms are actually very much built on top of each other, particularly in the last 20 years in England. Because I love to sit there and come up with speculative other versions of the thing that I'm given, which is not necessarily a good way to deal with art.

I was thinking about a longer play in which the completely fraudulent roots of tender and the FSB manipulation with me. That's a season five thing where because the story is rich enough, just purely as. Gatsby, Esk, Financial, Fabulous, that it works and then you don't have this other drum beat knocking increasingly louder taking the focus off of some of the other stuff. But as I was watching this, I was also realizing I can't advocate for that and then also cheer. Mickey and Conrad on for understanding the reality of the moment from a television industry sense, meaning.

“Futures and promised. You have to tell the best version of every story you can all the time.”

And it kind of reminded me of the fact that like though we like those guys and vibe with those guys and we talk to them. There's 10 years between us and it's kind of like talking to any like because we're cuspur gen X people. But like full millennials are under where you make a reference to maybe owning a house one day and they're like, come on dog.

We all know that will never happen.

And so I kind of feel like that generational divide is relevant here for them. I think they're getting a season five because the show is doing really well and never is happy with it. But I think the attitude, which is not wrong, of we have to burn it all the way to that we can't go home tonight. We have to burn the candle on the day. On the season, who have I mean, they had on Raj at the.

But even mentioned it presentation. They had Kenny come back and do the trading for Harper's position. They brought Eric back. They brought Rishi back like winning.

“I mean, well, the only thing I would say about Whitney is that he said, if you see me without my phone, it means I'm dead.”

Yeah, so that, you know, I think the Whitney story is a contained story. Yes, as much as anything is I'm just trying to, I was trying to advocate both sides of the position, which doesn't work you either. Yes, how are we set? Let's just short things or let's not. I just think that that is generally, I think they are operating under a smart TV principle. It's just funny because there's still a more conservative part of my mind where I'm like, settle in. Yeah, settle in now. You've, you've got the job. You're not auditioning.

You mentioned Whitney going full Lithuania. I think it'll be interesting to talk to the guys about whether or not like to what extent is Whitney like a. I am a self-aware agent of the, of the Russian Intelligent Services.

I just thought I was getting promoted a lot for handing over some personal information.

And now it turns out that I am a lieutenant, you know, in the FSB's mission to get a handle on Western finances. I want to get through a couple of other things in this episode. One is, I have the note yet. Yes, takes over the family. Her use of that word.

“Family was fascinating. And also just a great piece of writing because I think for the longest time and her relationship,”

but her relationship to Alexander is obviously developed over the course of the last two seasons with Henry. Whether or not you think that what she's asking for is to create a new bottom for a Henry defined

because he'll never get better unless we tough love fully destroy him that we have to destroy this version of him for him to survive.

Or a more different way of looking at it would be to take what she's talking to Harper about at the end of the episode and say, well, is she not laying out a path for herself to do that to feel and controlled to feel a part of things. There's a lot of competing moments in this episode. Her conversation with Jenny Bevin on the phone. Almost feels like she's not ready for prime time. Like she's like, don't yell at me. You know, like in so in some ways, like she still is making this personal. She still is.

Yes, she sensitive. Last of one makes the phone call like a killer and completely comes undone when truth is stabbed into her.

Yes. What did you think of that manipulation of like there's a lot of language being thrown around like red tops, which referred to newspapers like the sun, which I didn't know. I was so carrying the wires a term for a Henry tops.

“So there's red tops, which are like these tabloids that I think are a little bit more salacious.”

Yeah. Our more salacious than say like the times or what have you. By the way, I just glibly said, oh, I thought I was like the wire. This was an episode that reminded me again that it's not an invalid point to suggest that industry is making moves towards becoming a kind of UK the wire. The kind of is the way the tendrils have snaked into every aspect of British society and the way that Yasmin's appearance in the red top news room with what's the guy's name. I character's name is Kevin. I think he's been on the crown. He's a recognizable face. He's incredible. It's one of the shows, unsung or lesser sun attributes that it just finds these faces, these talents, these great actors to step in and become someone in relatively small amount of screen time.

But that scene communicated those two scenes. I mean, if you pair them, the Yasmin and what's uncle's name, Alex Alexander, those two scenes talking about how we started the conversation. The divide between work life and home life and there is no divide when the money flows freely between all of it and relationships are indistinguishable visits to a private home aren't categorized but visits to an office are but what's the difference when business is being done at both. The way that everything is snaked together is so, so compelling and dystopian and kind of horrifying.

“I thought that to bring it back to your original question about Yasmin and Alexander when she's very innocently saying, "I believe he's touched cocaine a few times and perhaps heroin."”

And the way that that plays on him is such a phenomenal character moment for me to tell us. Because Alexander's mind probably a bit of booze and that's all. It's like one thing and cocaine is like, well, he's off the wagon and heroin is like, "What are we talking about?" That's a new level. There's also a nice bit of a very subtle harmony between this scene and then is it later in this episode when Yasmin with Harper says, "Wasn't it nice to be 17 because people would do things for you?" She's still a little girl in this way and so this scene with the older figure that she does this for her. She manipulates the uncle so that people still do it but that is still her understanding of how of soft power.

When do you think she made the decision to do this? During the needle drop of the promise when she's lying awake all the way. I think that idea is that she's been awake all night thinking about what to do to him. There's an argument to be made that Mickey and Conred are steering the ship in such an intellectually challenging and uncompromising way that they leave a lot. They leave a lot for the viewer to fill in. There's also a more conservative take on it which is they just leave a lot of meat on the bone.

That the Harper Yasmin, I don't know, you'd call it coupling duopoly, whatever.

But if there have been more opportunities this season to show them reacting to similar situations in such wildly divergent ways, we might have

“Prime the pump a little bit more because Harper, I think of cross two seasons Yasmin has made very, very bold choices but in a way pragmatic choices to secure the bag or the bags or the ability to buy more bags in the future.”

The marriage of convenience that sometimes becomes conventional and fears into protection caregiving love, whereas Harper is devoid of any of those instincts and her marriage with Eric is purely purely mercenary and stays that way. I will point this out please. Their night ends at a night club where they dance in a beautifully shot sequence to death punk. It's the third dance sequence that we've had this season, not of those dances about ended well. Haley and Diker, Henry and Whitney, Harper and Yas. I personally do not buy Harper and Yas or the emotional core of the show and their relationship is the thing that matters the most in this show.

That's always been a little bit convenient.

“I mean, I think it's a way to sell the show and I think it's clearly like Mahala and Marissa Vella are friendly and they have a relationship that they return to over and over again over the course series.”

The only time I ever bumped in this episode is I'm like, what are these two text about in the interim between these intensely emotionally tender moments and almost killing each other? I mean, like, hey, damn, like, did you have you been to Lam's conduit recently? They really did a nice like, like, what do they talk about? It's a nice road. I do like going there. I just don't, I just like, there's like a little bit of a thing there where I'm like, it's not that I don't buy it as much as I would not take that dance as being like.

Well, we're right, because I think the spirit of the show that you could look at the first three seasons as a trilogy in a way, but really every season is more like the wire and that it reshuffles the deck and tells a specific story to that season. If the show were more conventional and if everyone was being more explicit about the idea that the fifth season will likely be the last, which I think is probably safe to assume not by any internal knowledge, but of the sense of like, how long people work on any one thing anymore.

So if we were to think of the show that way, then I guess this is building, you could say, oh, we're building towards a season where in Harper and Yasmin finally joined forces and they tear down the establishment of old world money and old men, everything, you know, through Harper's financial wizardry and savagery and Yasmin's communications genius, it's not that show.

“Yeah, so I think you're right, say that, and so the more relevant line is the line about like, what does she say, we're here forever even if we can't be.”

This was this was putting literally putting a an emotional memory pin in a beautiful moment because we may never get it again in this certainly in the season, but probably in this year.

They shot those dances very similarly, where it's the two people in a sea of bodies spot lit coming together at a moment of incredible volcanic change in their lives. I just think it's interesting. I think that one of the things that has appealed to us about the show from the beginning and what we, we joke about and say like, oh, it was primarily a vibe show is that the people making it and the characters are intensely preenestalgic. That they live moments with the inflated like gladiator, esque sensibilities of something that will make a core memory as opposed to the way things actually happen and it's written that way too, like, this is praise.

People don't talk like this, like I think that is accepted understanding of the discourse. Love many things where people don't talk exactly. I mean, people like David Mehmet plays or Michael man movies or. That's not how people talk, but it reflects how people feel and how people are and how we conceive of things. You have to understand, you don't have to understand, I'm not trying to be pedantic, but like you have to understand like there's a way in which the style that you and view your characters with when they talk or how they talk can be truthful if not true to life.

Aaron's work and characters say the things that I think people wish they were clear enough of mine to say at any given point to dress down a boss or an authority figure that way or whatever. It's Mamma's repetition is how speaking in the world sort of sounds, but it's highly highly stylized. So I don't really mind it's paintings, not photographs. I don't really mind that part. Anything else from industry you wanted to hit? Did you enjoy Willamena eating McDonald's? I thought it was amazing. Amazing when she pulled the rug and also like a very funny joke about how if you guys weren't so busy being like bisexual secret agents, you might just be able to like do this job.

So this is like I'm having a fucking quarter-pounder and like totally plagued you and it wasn't like four-d chess. This is pretty simple.

This is what I was saying when I was struggling with the Eric appearance on CNN. I was like Eric and Whitney are, this is maybe a good place to say this. Like it's not just that they're speaking elevated language. It's like they're behaving like lunatics in a arena that is supposedly reality, like the right light television. And I struggled with it when the host of the CNN program was like well, that was another great segment. It's like you just had like an art happening.

Yeah, like you just had an improvise like Don Mar Warehouse. Yes, freak out.

“And you're like, well, Scott Jennings, what do you think?”

Exactly. The Willamena scene was what I think I was looking for and it came a little bit later and then that's also the argument for considering something as a full season because they got their card pool. They're playing, they're playing at glory holes and and and and and and spy crowd somehow appear point as returned. [laughter] Make the meme.

Make the meme. Anything else you wanted to talk about in the world of Andy Grimmold? My world.

Or, you know, we're going to do a little watch after Dark. I got to say, I missed the Olympics more or less entirely.

I did watch a highlighted version of the USA Canada hockey game hits Diff when you're watching Shoresy. This episode of Shoresy is very much about Canadian pride. Did you feel what was your roller coaster of emotions when the good old US lost some teeth, but won the match won the medal? And then your guy cash betel is in the locker room. Did you had that make you feel good?

I was in a basement with Ferdinand talking about dad sets. And some opportunity to advertise on this podcast. Honestly, I've got a person who's looking at its very expensive real estate Marvista. So we may have to make some got from you to call your guys. This four or five guys you've been in room with, I am fascinated with.

What if we find out Kaya's real name is Arena? Yes. This has been the longest. This is essentially the FSB version of Siberia. You've got to cultivate these two pictures of her in Big Sur, being like love liking.

In fact, love sending guys across borders. I just hope. Butterphones. In this version of your life, which is thrilling. By the way, I hope that you've been given other tasks that the fit your station within the post-Soviet.

Can you imagine who I was like?

“You must go and record a long running pop culture conversation show.”

What these guys did in bars? Why did it come so much? Well, eventually become relevant. Yeah. Eventually.

It does explain our longevity. Yes, it's incredible. Honestly. Well, we provide a useful data set of guys wearing band t-shirts and sports hats. Like the last great frontier to crack America.

We must go at people who were excited for the replacement. When you try to find pressure points in my life and they're like it looks like he likes the sixors again. And hardcore. He alone represents our interests. All right.

Well, okay. So Thursday, the plan is we are going to do the pit. Yeah. We're going to have a special guest. We're going to talk to Wonderman.

We're going to finish Wonderman, which I have done. And I recommend everyone does. Yes. Great show. Sunday night, we will put up our industry finale recap.

Probably with a special guest appearance from the Vladimir Putin. Go on. But some of this stuff that's flying around about him in the New Yorker. And now going on Sunday night. And then, you know, the usual watch shenanigans over the course of the week.

It would be incredible if Vladimir Putin went on a sports podcast and just to talk about like ice hockey.

Like give you just like, I'm not here to talk about any of that other stuff. You know what I mean? Like he's just here to talk. I'm just trying to imagine Putin on Bill. Just balls and strikes.

Bill's like, who are your guys? That's Marin. Right, Marin. Putin, Marin. Putin listen to 32 minutes of Jalen Brown talk.

Would be the fucking greatest thing this country has ever done. So wait. Let's game this out. So it's just like when you took back some of the Ukraine. Yeah.

It's like when Danny age stockpiled picks and returned for Paul Pierce. Right? Yeah. Like there's some version of it. And Putin keeps trying to talk about like Russia's historical imperative to take over.

And he's like, you know, you're you're missing a point.

“And that's, and that's what Jalen's been doing on the night tonight basis.”

And I don't know if you've noticed, but he scored 38 points 29 times. What is Putin? Because remember Putin is a master of flattery. Like he is, he is a spy. So what if he's just like Russia is better with Ukraine?

It just is. Oh, yeah. It just is. I thought you're going to mean like he would come in and he'd just be like in Russia. Like we love the Celtics kind of thing.

I mean, Russia's Celtics love you. Like the old smeared off joke.

But Putin on many podcasts because I did I apologize.

I went straight to the mayor.

“And I'm like, "Who are your additional guys?"”

Or like, mayor and telling Putin about the time he auditioned for learn Michaels.

And Putin having to be like, "Well, show you.

“I just sit through Yeltsin's cabinet meetings."”

You can imagine. Thanks to Kaya or Ishi.

This is the one that has likes.

Thanks to Kaya.

“Thanks to everyone for making the show today.”

We'll be back on Thursday. Pits. Special guests for Wonderman. Sunday night industry finale recap. And we're more exciting stuff next week.