‘Paradise’ Season 2 Finale With Mina Kimes. Plus, ‘Euphoria’ S3 Trailer, ‘Something Very Bad Is Going to Happen,' and 'Project Hail Mary'

What I want to do is not to get a lot of students.

The master-writer has left her to be a soft-handed, so it's a master-writer.

“I'm saying, you can say that you're a hero.”

You're a master-writer, right? But you don't understand. Egal, it's a very famous job. Do you just do it with this story? And if you then work, you'll be able to do it. - That's right? - Safe.

This story is called "The King of the Rings". Now, let's try it out. Thanks for watching. Thanks for watching. We might get a couple of minutes of Andy at Project Halemary.

Talk? Mostly about the concessions. The big thing we got going on on the pod today is Minicimes came by to talk about the season finale of Paradise. So we had a very fun chat with her about that as well as Shawn Manion's offensive philosophy

and AJ Brown's trade prospects. That's at the end of the list. That's for the Watch Bird after Dark, kind of situation. The Watch at Spotify.com for email. The Watch pod underscore for Instagram.

Watch us on rear dash TV on YouTube or on Spotify. Where you can also listen to us or listen to us wherever you can get podcasts. Let's start with you for you. - Yeah. - This is, we just did it. This is live to take.

- We just watched it. And it's been very strange.

“I think partially because I don't really even know if the promo cycle for the show”

has even started in earnest. Like, I have not seen a big piece about it. There hasn't been a huge Sam Levinson. I'm sure that stuff's uncoming soon. But like, usually with a show of this stature with this popularity and with it's being

the final season and several years since the last season. You'd expect like a much bigger drum beat. This is the first significant amount. We had a teaser and now we have like a three-minute trailer that dropped today. I am a fan of this show.

I loved parts of season two. I really, really liked it.

But I feel like we've always been, we've always missed each other.

I don't think we really talked about season one. I think I talked about two, maybe with somebody else, but not with you. - Yeah. - Have you ever watched you for it? - That frame.

- Holy shit. - And I'm here to tell you something. - Yeah. - It's Kai as my witness. - Yeah.

- I can't, I can't front. That look good as hell. That looked fucking sick. - That's not indicative. - If that's the show.

- It's not. - Here's what I'm gonna do. - Don't do this to me. - I'm not doing anything to you. This is what the show has become.

Great. - I wanna watch this touching, through the drug meal and like her high school friends who have now all become waste cases. - Let's try and find redemption in this California nightmare that we live in. - I don't think you're seeing my face right now.

- I can pumped, dude. I am here to tell you. We're doing it this way. There were no two seasons before this. - I'm not even getting engaged.

- This is the new team watching this. - This is right. - It's not. - And this is good. That's all I care about.

Who's gonna tell us no? - Well, I don't see the TV cops here. - Raising. - Who's gonna tell us? - I do hear some sirens.

“- No one's gonna tell you you have to watch two seasons of you for you.”

Plus the Christmas specials. - Let's go back to a more pure state in which a teaser trailer. Teases my interest in which a trailer peeks it even further. And now I'm like, she's in Mexico. Frankenstein looks upset.

Coleman Demingo. Done. - Who did Sydney Sweenie vote for? - Couldn't care less, but respect to her brother. Like this looks awesome.

And if this is the show, let's do it. - Sharon Stone. - Sharon Stone on the WB lot. No problem. - Yeah.

- This is not to be glib, like we were discussing, we were critiquing, we were enjoying, we were rolling with the ways that industry.

DGAF about what it is supposed to be doing in its third

or into its fourth season. - Yes. - And I am very much here for the opportunity to meet a hype show that has also been a very troubled show in production. - For sure.

- And not even necessarily in terms of like tabloids that I mean. - Finding themselves in production. - You know, that and there's some issues. - And they were finding a schedule that worked for their suddenly globally famous cast and everything else.

But if what they settled on was fuck it, then I would like to see what that looks like. - Yeah, if they're making Magnolia with guns, I'm pretty into it. - Yeah.

- And this, the real character, the Zendaya characters

Just been like a really cool evolution over the now third season.

- It seems to be in a cool place.

- And she seems to be in a really fucked up place but she's looking for a way out. She's looking for a happy ending for herself. - She's also one of our only real stars. - I think in the world, Zendaya.

- Yeah.

“- I'm eager to engage with what I believe to be the first season”

of her HBO show. - I'll be excited to see the text messages that I get when you're like, and I would know this guy in relationship to this person how. - I am not gonna give you that. My new thing, starting, what time is it?

- I'm gonna... - I'm gonna be an 18 on Monday. - I say yes. - This is a whole new pivot for me. - Yeah.

- Previously, I said, now I'm gonna say yes. - See our month changed you. - It really did. By the way, it's a long month. We're still going.

This is our last podcast of CRM.

- Do you have any more? - Yeah, well, no. I am by the time this feed sees me again, it will be post-CRM, so I'll be... - Shit.

- Hell, it's my self. There's some other news, I guess. I mean, there's more additions to the White Lotus cast. - Yeah, but you're not as interested in that. - I'm interested.

- You're in proven mode with the White Lotus. - I look, he doesn't have to prove anything to me. Mike White just recently on Survivor 50, the guy is ripped, did you know that? Mike White, like, absolutely jacked.

- Yeah. - Do you did know that? - I did know that. - Did you see it on Facebook? - No, I have a Google Earth set to you staying fit after 50.

“- I think it's just Mike White Muscle's own.”

- Mike White Muscle, and it's... - Yeah, just White Muscles, I search for it. - Let's talk to castes in this season of White Lotus, season four, which is I believe, set in France. - Okay, this is the previously announced cast.

Do you want to react in any way, as I say, the name is, or do you want to save your plots? - Just a few minutes. - Just a few minutes. - Chloe Bennett, Sandra Bernhardt,

Helena Bonham Carter, Vincent Cousel, Steve Cougan, Caleb Jonte Edwards, Dylan Ennis, quarantine fiela, we're in the area of the cast, which I don't know who these people are, but I respect Ari Granger, Max Greenfield,

Charlie Hall, Marissa Long, Alexander Ludwig, Preptit's Ludwig, Chris Messina, AJ Machalka, Kumail Nunjani, Jared Paul, Nadia Turish Givic, I want to say, I didn't want to say, and then joining as of today, Heather Graham,

recently at the back of the cinemas as well, right? - Yes. - The horror movie, Rosie Perez, Ben Schnetzer, who I believe you and I know from the Madison. - Oh, yeah, that guy.

To buy a sample. - Is that guys in Val on the Madison? - I don't listen to the names. - I just move to the archetypes. - Just watch the faces, yeah.

- Move to the archetypes, they need. - Saying yes, free to Gustavson and Laura Smith. - Can I ask you something? - Sure. - That's a lot of guests at the White Lotus.

- It's a big hotel this year. - I wonder, and if you had to guess, who's working behind the desk and who's a guest? - Everyone I said, who's French, is it gonna be working behind the desk?

- Except Vincent Cousel. He maybe he's the hotel manager. - Possibly. - He's, I'm gonna, you know what? He's too handsome.

- I'm not in perfect mode. I thought there was a lot to love about season three. I didn't think it was the most successful of the three seasons for me personally. Like in terms of let the way it clicked together

and what it was about.

“- I think the only thing that you can determine”

from what we were just saying about the cast list is one of the critiques of season three was that it felt a little bit claustrophobic and small, and the storylines are pretty much, distinct, siloed nodules early on.

- Yes. - This seems to be, I don't know if it's necessarily a response to that, but this is a much bigger and deeper bench of characters who could potentially be interacting in ways that we will be delighted by.

- Yeah. - The only thing that I want to bring out by mentioning the cast is something that we have said before

which is they should take the first best casting Oscar

that they gave to Vanessa Cousel and give it to Mike White. - Yeah. - Because it's not just that he's so good at casting and so interesting with the cast that he finds and is able to write for right parts that suit actors

who have been misseerved often in later part to their careers. - I thought of only as one thing. - It's that what he's doing now, like do you remember when we did the like

the fan casting true detective season two stuff and everybody was having a lot of fun with that back when Twitter was fun and back when anyone had fun doing anything online? He is fan casting White Lotus better than fans could

by casting people who feel like they whole we should have been in this. Heather Graham and Rosie Perez like, okay, of course. - Of course. - That makes sense.

- Yeah, I mean, he's done a bunch of like sort of more supporting roles in recent years but has not been like front and center in a minute. Hopefully he'll handle burn hard. - Axe Greenfield.

And then I think that Steve Cougan and Helena Bonham Carter just like, they'll probably be a couple in this right? - Born to do this. - Yeah. - Is he gonna turn around?

- This is 27 correct.

- I would expect so. - Yeah, 'cause they probably haven't even started shooting yet. - I think they're just about to start shooting. - This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing

when everyone else is following everyone else

“but that's what some of the best films are about.”

An outcast, striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. From us, from VW, from the other outcasts out there, take a chance. Make the most of every day and don't be afraid

to view off course every now and then because if you don't do it now, then win. Learn more at vw.com. Let's talk a little bit about some a new TV show and then a new issue movie.

- Okay. - 'Cause I wanted to get your project tail married thoughts after the fact and then well, bring me in on and we'll do paradise. I asked you to check out something very bad

is going to happen, which is on Netflix. It's created by Haley Boston who did a pretty cool movie a few years ago called brand new cherry flavor.

And it is the first two episodes.

- Is that the TV show that was on Netflix? - She was a writer on that. - Yeah, and then it's directed. The first couple of episodes are directed by a filmmaker named Veronica Tophelska.

- Veronica. - Veronica Tophelska, who did... - Maybe reindeer. - The chapter says it's a baby reindeer, but did love lies bleeding, which is a movie

a Kristen Stewart from a year or two ago. That was very cool. Kind of had like a blood simple kind of vibe. And this show starts Camilla Morone, who people might remember from Daisy Jones in the six,

or from the most recent season of Night Manager and Adam Demarco, who people might remember from the White Lotus. And Jennifer Jason Lee in Ted Levine and is essentially so far, I've watched three episodes.

A fucked up Rosemary's baby birth, like full car, like from Hell Thriller, and really really, really well constructed, example of how to do horror in long-form television,

“which I think is low key one of the hardest things to do.”

- Who do you think is Mike Flanagan sort of the leading? - Yes, and here's the inversion of what Mike Flanagan does. Mike Flanagan will make you wait for six and a half hours for the scare, and it will be dread, but it will really be this character studies

of people who have all arrived at this place one way or the other, and now are going through a transformational moment, and then sort of almost as a catalyst for the transformations that these people are going through,

they'll have a vampire or a haunted house, where something will bring this kind of new understanding and emotional healing about, sometimes not healing, sometimes deaf. This is a little bit of the inversion.

So what the creators and the filmmakers in this show are trying to do is keep the tension more or less at like an 8.5 out of 10 for hours. And it is, you could say, your mileage may vary on horror for you,

I'm curious to see how you felt about it.

I think it's one of the best first episodes

of a TV show I've seen in a long time. When you get past that first hour, you're like, "Who is shit? "I like legit don't know if I can do this "because it is so exhausting

"to be in the character criminal in my own place, "raital, who is the bride to be at her fiance's, "parents, police, what did a state?" - It's Canada, it's Canada. - If you see the wedding invitation,

there's no further information there. - I wasn't sure if it was like Michigan, I think it's sure. - The answer to all that is, yes. - In any case, they are,

she's meeting the family for the first time, this is her wedding weekend. She thinks it's gonna be a small ceremony, it turns out it's gonna be much larger. And almost as soon as the show starts,

but especially when they get to this state, just weird shit happens all the time. This is Netflix show, so it's really hard to even read about because it'll just be like, "Let's talk about the ending." - And it's doing really well.

- And I don't want to spell it for myself, and I think it's doing quite well, yes.

What did you think of the first episode

which you watched?

“- Yeah, I think, well, it's interesting to hear you talk”

about it and this might be a separate conversation about how the challenges of adapting horror to long-term television. I would imagine it is similar to the challenges with rom-coms in that these are both film cinema languages that have a very specific rhythm and schedule,

almost to deliver what you, to for the deliverables, and that's challenging to stretch out in a way that feels satisfying. To that point, one of the things that I really appreciate

at about this pilot is that it is incredibly efficient and communicating who these two people are, these engaged, this young engaged couple who are driving towards their way. - Yeah, Nicky and Rachel.

- In the first 10, 15 minutes, which is ostensibly the normal time and maybe to your point, the last normal time of the show, they are both as performers

Just how the show presents them,

incredibly charming and your empathetic towards them and you kind of get the rhythms of them in a way that draws you in,

“even those of us who are slightly immune”

to this type of storytelling. Before we get to how I felt at the end of the episode, I also want to say, and maybe this is just the new say yes me or maybe just a little bit of softening,

I was mostly thrilled in those first 15, 20,

even 30 minutes as it starts to turn because I don't know anything about Haley Boston who made the show, I don't know anything about the production of the show, but I felt, it made me feel really happy that this young creator who clearly is passionate

about this type of storytelling, possibly even this story that she was able to articulate which she wanted to do so clearly and so passionately and then that that pitch was heard clearly and passionately by, I guess the Duffer Brothers, who produced this.

- Yes, exactly, for instance, that they brought on the right cast, they brought on the right director to execute it because I breathe there's Nelly Times profile of Haley and it talks about how this is her first time as a showrunner and all of that.

“It just seems like this is one of those opportunities”

that nobody fumbled the back and they gave

a first time creator and by the way,

this is, I'm not saying this, I'm not projecting anything, I had a chance to do everything I wanted to, good or bad and I feel very fortunate for that. I love it when that happens because whatever you may say about the show and I will say good things and bad things,

I really feel strongly that this creator's voice was heard and it's coming through and that this wasn't noted or neutered in any way and there's not a lot of that on TV. The development process, even at its best,

chokes a lot of chaos or passion out of projects. - This has kind of been a running theme of a lot of the shows that we've talked about over the last six months is like, I think your sensitivity and your awareness of like, you can tell

that this was like unfucked or not fucked with or had like a supportive hand in bringing it to the screen. So it's interesting to hear you say that. - We could get emails later being like, oh no, it was a nightmare, but I don't,

the, all we're talking about now is just the results on screen and there's a confidence to this and the shorthand going back to that the way the characters are introduced. You like them, you understand their vibe,

you see how they relate to each other, Camilla Mironi who I like a lot, generally, even within a few moments, this is probably the best I've ever seen around screen because whether it's comfort with our co-stars,

she makes the show or with the production. I'm like, this is just, she understands this person which she's playing. - She doesn't, I know that Haley Bossons from Portland the Rachel Characters from Oregon.

Like, I think that she's, yeah. When in pictures I've seen Haley Bosson like Camilla Mironi is not dressed unlike her kind of, and if you are going to shoot a show,

an eight-hour show, that's entirely from the POV more or less from of a character. If you're going to be locked in with that actor, to that extent, she's got a great canvas because Camilla Mironi is doing like awesome, awesome work

and is so vulnerable and scared, but also like dealing with her own anxieties and panics and maybe has secrets of her own and things that she has understand about herself. So it really, really, really worked for me.

The thing I'm fascinated by,

and I guess we can get into this first episode is like,

what you do differently when you're telling a horror story for lack of a better term over the course of eight hours, versus what you would do for 90 to two hours. And like the first 15 minutes, which I think you were a fan of.

- Very much so. - Our good example of it's such a tone setter, the filmmaking is basically your inside of this car with these people as they're on a road trip from the Midwest up to their wedding destination.

And you stop at a diner, and they like are trying to keep each other awake and chatting and listening to a podcast and listening to music and playing road games and stuff. But the camera is telling you, it's screaming to you,

this isn't right, so there's something fucked up. There's also this, if you pay attention to every single thing that's happening, almost all of it is paid off, even within the episode. So for example, she's listening to a podcast

about a woman who lived through a murder attempt. And one of the details that she remembers from this murder attempt is that there was a small, like, doll's shoe on the ground, and she was like,

“I remember that shoe, and it prompted me to run away,”

or whatever, in like two scenes later, the racial character finds the same kind of shoe on the floor of a public bathroom at a rest stop and during a very traumatizing moment.

It's just like, the truck that goes by them,

that seems creepy is also at a dive bar,

“like, you can play detective with the show.”

Then there's also just like a lynchie and kind of other dream-like worldliness to it. But it'll fire on your nerves, man. Like I was watching with my wife and we watched so much horror together.

And even my wife was like, this is really tough to do this much and only be at the beginning of this. - Like when they arrive at the family home and Gus Burney, who's an actor, I think I like a lot, also a fan.

She's her dad is Reed Burney, who's a great New York stage and screen actor, which is not a reason to like or dislike her, yeah, she plays Porsche. So she was on Black Rabbit recently. - Oh yeah.

- When we meet her, and this is like the 30 minute halfway

mark basically of the pilot, she's turned,

like she is at an 11 on the spinal tap scale of what this character is doing. And to your point, like that's an interesting ingredient to throw into the pot early in the cooking process. - Yes.

- How do you build on that? Where is there to go? But it's kind of a provocation in a way

“that clearly is working in terms of its viewership”

and its success in terms of getting people to keep going to see where it goes. I had a hard time with it. I like that scene in a vacuum, but the tonal shift of it from what we had seen up at that time.

- I didn't, like my thing, this, I think what's going to be interesting in talking about the show, which I don't know if I can stick with it. - Yeah, I understand.

- But 'cause I just don't enjoy this,

this is just not my genre. But what I thought was interesting, and I think what I'm about to criticize might be a sign of success in your metric is that any scene in the pilot,

whether it's them driving just the two of them early, whether it's the very disturbing, like baby and the car sequence that leads to a dive bar, whether it's this meeting the family or whether it's the weird ends with Jennifer Jason Lee,

seal off any of these scenes and parentheses, take them out and watch them. I'm like, this is really cool. There's a lot of ideas here. There's a lot of emotion.

There's a lot of tension. The filmmaking is good. When they are stacked on top of each other, I have to tap out. Maybe that escalation is a good thing.

- Yeah. - But for me, it isn't because the thing that I struggle with with the genre is the inevitable, and look, this is a whole other conversation, like horror really works,

especially for young filmmakers, because it is a tried and true recipe that you can throw different things in. - Well, also in the case of this show, it's an example of post-COVID production tricks of like,

let's just get five people and have them in one set,

basically, and like horror excels at isolation at show.

Limited, sort of like a limited canvas of characters to play with and making them happy in opposition to each other, 'cause there are stuck in a place together. - What I struggle with, separate apart from my nervous disposition,

is that once you get on to the prescribed horror track, where these things go, is inevitably a place of extremity and horror and violence or death or jump scares. When I'm more interested in a more quotidian friction,

let's say, in terms of like the things that are inspiring Haley Boston and her collaborators on the show to make this series, which I think comes from places of like anxiety and mistrust and uncertainty about traditional marriage tracks

or meeting your partner's family and all of that. Generally, I'd rather the show that stays there, not that takes it to this extreme, but as people listening to our show will understand, that if she, if Rachel goes to visit Nikki's family

and Nikki's family's happen to be all Cold War aerospies, I'd be like, this is the fucking shit. - Right. - This is awesome. - Sometimes that's my... - There's a shit shot. - There's a shit shot.

“- There's a shit shot. - Yeah, that's what I'm trying to express.”

Like, I really enjoyed the exercise of watching the show and it gave me a lot of good feelings, especially because you told me not to watch it last night. So I started my day with it instead of ending my life. - Yeah, I don't know if it's a nighttime show for you.

- The mechanics of it are really interesting, because it's also borrowing from that pronounced, much must watch next episode, you know, perception. Now, I'm not necessarily saying that that's built into,

hey, when you're writing these scripts, make sure there's something that happens in the last two minutes, that people cannot stop from clicking next episode. And everything from the pit to whatever else does that. Now, paradise, there's something specific in,

I think a lot of Netflix shows, and I've noticed, like, you know, with the prestige crime Apple shows where you get to the end of an episode and you're like, "Oh my God, the daughter did it." And then the next five minutes,

and it's like, "Oh my God, the new nurses in a headlock." And then the next five minutes of the next episode is like, it's okay, we're fine. Or it's not that, it's something else. To do that with horror is hard,

Because the thing that I was hearing the most from my wife

and I honestly echo her is like, she's got to get the fuck out of there. - Yeah, why doesn't she just go? - Yeah, and now, what I imagine is going to happen just based on Rachel's weird tattoos

for an interesting backstory of like never knowing her mother

and she has an official father and like, what has led her to this place, and et cetera, and she has like obviously some panic issues, what I think is going to probably be the case that there is a reason why she is there,

but both on her side, not just the family side, and that there is a reason why she can't leave, or she has not chosen to leave. But yeah, it's hard to have, it'd be like, "Oh yeah, I know this is like the scariest thing

you've ever seen in your life, but there's an easy explanation for it."

“And you should just stick through this wedding”

that obviously is doomed. - But do you know what's kind of interesting thing to think about is the A24 model these last few years? - Which has shifted a lot, especially now that they're kind of in their blockbuster area.

- They're held in ring era, yeah, it's exactly that.

But they were succeeding by identifying people with very passionate visions for something, generally in more modest framing, whether it's a horror story or whatever, and saying, "Okay, go make your movie,

"and we'll take a bunch of lottery tickets with these, "and if one of them hits, it pays for all of them." And Netflix has the engine to do that, you know, and you could say that it's similar, so the success of giving Haley Boston the right setup

to make this show isn't that dissimilar in some ways from giving Joe Barton the setup to make black dusts, which is by no one's metric a traditional spy show, but works because of the combination of the right creator and the right vehicle for that creation.

Like black doves, which we'll talk about when it comes back in season two. One of the reasons I loved it, is I was like, this is a Netflix show, and I say that with an exclamation point,

not a question mark. Like this works for this medium where we're expecting a certain type of return on our time investment of like a yes and attitude towards excess and energy and action

and everything's bigger. - Yeah. - And it works, and you know, a show like this

“wouldn't hit, I think, and feel as exciting”

to the people who were watching it if it was on, I don't wanna say a lesser streamer in terms of quality, but a lesser streamer in terms of market penetration. Let's say a streamer that doesn't feel confident charging $20 a month for its service,

which honestly... - I saw that they didn't do that. - We're in war. - What the fuck? - Okay, so I highly recommend this, Andy.

I would say honestly, a recommendation in and of itself is the fact that you went and finished this episode. - Thank you. - And like that you were like intrigued enough with a bunch of the stuff that was going

on like really good performances, really interesting filmmaking for a TV show and good writing. And it's like, I thought, I hope I get to talk to Haley Boston because I really, I'm really excited to take a good interview.

- This is the greatest example of it. It's not, it's not you, it's me. - Before we get to Mina, you did see Project Hail Mary this weekend. - I did.

- It's basically the only movie out,

like it's just sucking up the entire box office right now. - Yeah. - Which think, can I just say like big picture? Not actually, maybe actually hashtag the big picture. I have a lot of criticisms and I have a lot of compliments

for this film, but my main thing was, I wish there were 10 of these movies, movies like this a year instead of like maybe three every five years. - Right. - Now, when you say that, do you mean Andy,

we're movies or do you just know big, original, funny, crowd pleasing. We are all in this to entertain people around the world, maybe even to other worlds. And we are going to put our best in the brightest

onto this particular project to execute that. - But do you, yeah. But what's the distinction you would make

“between this and like super Mario Galaxy, does that, right?”

- Well, I think it's what you said at the beginning, like this is a original IP, this is based on a book. It's, it's interesting, it's conventional in a lot of ways. But it would be a tough, the tone that it tries to, the needle that it tries to thread

and I think that it mostly succeeds in threading, which is like this is at once a quite sober look at scientific process and cooperation and also a utterly glib buddy comedy between Ryan Gosling and a small rock.

Like that, that's hard to pitch that. - Sure, and I think that it was committed to its own goal of entertaining and in a way that like, in listen, I'm going to have to, you're talking to someone who's going to have

to see super Mario Galaxy, mostly because I'm a Nintendo completeist, I won't bring my children. That, like, but that's cynically we come here.

Hotbreak feels good in place like this,

stand you watching, just surrounded by toast. - Nicole Kidman, not to be the old podcaster that I am or that we are, but it's like, there used to be a lot of movies that tried to entertain adults and kids, that that was a wide net

that people tried to do, that they didn't feel like, you know, the risk associated with that, just, it's a super Mario Galaxy is a safer return on investment than Project Hail Mary, even with Ryan Gosling, even with Lord and Miller

and a bestselling book.

I think the problem is, and we find this also

with like Oscar season movies, I think, is that when there's only one of them, it's gonna get a lot of slings and arrows also because this has to be the movie for everybody. And then when one thing is the only example of that movie

during a year, you spend more time pointing out the problems with it. And like, yeah, that's a good point. - I, I had a great time, which maybe that's all that the matters, I feel like Lord and Miller

“are, remember that, like when there was that post-JJ Abrams”

like, let's give Colin Trevorow a movie and all we're trying to do is find our next generations, Bill Berg and storytellers, who like, - Well, it's like, let's do it. - Let's do it.

- People out of Indies to make big budget genre and usually super hero movies. - These guys are the ones who can do that. And I know that this is probably their first live action opportunity to prove that, but as someone who has been

in the sick day trenches, watching Lego movie and Mitchell's versus the machines and all the spider-verse movies multiple times, these guys are pretty naturally skilled at making you laugh and have a little bit of heart to them

and having enough twists on the classic story, like Hero's Journey, that it works. Like the things that I was reading about, that were additions to the movie, like that don't go crazy room or the Carl character.

And I know Drew Goddard wrote the script, and he's very, very good at doing this thing. I'm sure many of the good ideas were also his, I don't want. I'm not in the business of Drew Goddard or Rager, but there is a Lord and Miller jokiness jokiness.

No, we're really gonna do the joke here, we're not gonna apologize for it, that was welcome. I was trying to articulate this thing that I felt when, and this is spoilers for Project Tale Mary,

“but I think that's okay because that movie's made”

like $300 million in two weeks.

- Yep. - Is the difference between how I felt watching the Gaza character do a spacewalk and seeing the purple and the light changing in the sky, as he's trying to capture the astrophage thing.

And it is a visual moment that I will remember so much better than anything that happens, let's say, in the fall guide, which is another movie that I liked, which is another movie that starts Ryan Gosling,

and probably uses more or less like the same amount of effects that those two things are basically the same amount of aided by digital effects. And it really is like putting characters in situations where the characters

are actually also amazed at what they're seeing. - Yeah, and this is the thing that Spielberg does. - It's a great point. - It's a great point. - When you watch Jurassic Park Rebirth,

or Jurassic World Rebirth or whatever it was with the Scarlett Johansson Merchallole movie, another people in that movie are that impressed by seeing dinosaurs. And the actors don't seem to really like,

think it's that big of a deal. And all the stunts are like, I jumped off a cliff did 35, you know, some results and grabbed a wire over a canyon. And it's all just kind of like divorced from physics,

but also bravery and fear and all these like human emotions. And the thing that Lord and Miller got,

“that I think is the thing that Spielberg understood,”

is that the people in the movie need to reflect the feelings of the people watching. - Totally.

- About how amazing this is.

And we've gotten so far away from that because what we've been watching are a bunch of glib superheroes. - I'll flip this fucking car with my finger because I'm a superhero.

- I'm not surprised that you're blue because we all speak English. - Yes. - And the movie, and I think this, I know this comes from the book,

the amnesia part is very effective for that reason, because literally every man, I wish every man, was Ryan Gosling, I wish we were two Ryan Gosling's talking to each other right now, we would know. - It's interesting stuff for the video now.

- Now you're on it. He wakes up and he's like, no, wrong star, turn around. Now we understand a little bit more about this. And we feel alone, we feel scared as opposed to, we're being played, we're used to a character waking up

in space and feeling like, oh, cool. That's Thanos' homeworld. No problem. Be back before dinner. I completely agree with you about that.

And I also think that there's a human touch when you have filmmakers who are in control of the process or are empowered to be in control of the process. And the human touch is what casts Lionel Boyce, it's what casts Sandra Huller, who is amazing in this movie.

- Truly, and grounds sequences that--

- Do you see an anime before?

- No, I never did.

- I'm gonna do a funny joke about it, but--

- You wanna talk about it? - I would love it for you to watch it. - Maybe that'll be this. I mean, I just watched a Nora, so I'm just really catching up.

You guys ready for my takes about that? Actually, I don't think you are. - In the spirit of you, be like, it's Andy Day Zero and ready to watch you for you. - Yeah.

- I'm done trying to tame you. Just let me go wilder. - You're like, I'm a shell-fifre and these lands are wild.

“I just have to, I have to meet you where you are, you know?”

- You think like, you gotta watch this, we've gotta do that, you can't tame me. - Run free. - The truth is-- - Tell me, tell me, is it a Nora week on this pod door?

- Or I message is like astrophage, and then it's just like, it's just, it's like, fissile material, and it's just appearing all the time.

- I, I'll say, and I'm curious where you feel about this.

I mean, look, everything I've come to understand about the book is that it is also a little bit lumpy, a little bit hokey at times, and it's also like 500 pages. So there are attempts to wrestle it down into this book.

- It's really a book that everybody seems to be like, you gotta listen to the audio book version. - Who does it? - Uh, that's a great question, I don't know, should be more prepared.

I say, I don't do audio books generally. I can't retain information. - But if you said like, Tilda Swinton, I'd be like, I'll fire that up. (laughing)

- It's like you Madison, and what volume? So all that, I think it's an impressive act of adaptation, truly, but like people's mileage may vary, I actually wanted a little bit more of the Martian, like scientists trying to save everything

and a little bit less alien buddy comedy. Like, I knew having been spoiled, and I understand why it was in the trailer that that was where we were headed to degree.

“I did not know that that's what the movie was”

basically going to be. And I was-- - I just can't lung new that movie. Was that what the movie was going to be? - I also wonder that we love in this house,

we love and respect Ken, and he's a phenomenal actor, and it's awesome to be in the biggest movie in the world, but I would say that he is underrepresented in this film. - I just, I do wonder if there was some extra footage of his character that maybe didn't make it

to the final cut. It's just like we talked about this over text,

but like ultimately like all respect to the irradiens,

I believe, and their intricate Zino, Zinan weaving strategies, but like, I'd go home. I go home. Now I know they've created a character who uniquely looks like Ryan Gosling

and has no friends or loved ones, so it's NPD to just detour. And by the way, I imagine somehow making plans in space is easier than making plans in Los Angeles. - If you went home, would you tell everyone the truth about what decision you had made,

or would you just be like, I fixed it, and then he went home too, and it was all good. - 100%. - Okay, that would be a lie you lived with. - Yes.

- You wouldn't be like, I just made the decision that I wanted to see if me and Sandra Huller could make something work together. - First of all, what are you returning to? It's cold.

You know what I mean? Like everyone's old now. You didn't know anyone to begin with. You're a hero. - I don't really--

- I think he is the national sport. - He did travel release ready for a comeback. It's been rebooted multiple times. You can't quibble with this movie, because you have to accept it.

And I'm a big believer in that. I did think his generative AI language software really stepped up quickly. - It was quick to learn. I think that if I had the opportunity

to befriend a very cute species of rock aliens, and I didn't have like, oh god, who's gonna feed my cat. Can I situation back home? - That's my problem, yeah.

- Like I would just be like, yeah, let's rock out here. Also, I'm super into time moves different unlike this planet or out in space. - Yeah, yeah.

- So you can like wait out like all your homies can die, and then you can come back and just crazy knowledge. - And you can also be like, you also are really trusting that this dude who can weave anything will build you a biodome

of the Pacific Northwest that you could just chill in. - Yeah. - For as long as you want without any problems. But there's also the secondary level of thinking, which is just like, okay, they build this biodome for me,

and I live with my robot friends on a beach, and he comes visits me, and that's fine. But what if you're a little congested, and you're like, could I get some affron? And they're like, we don't have noses.

“- But I think they can build affron though.”

- I don't know. - Yeah, I don't know. Like what if you, like, how did he build the ocean? You know, they can come up with some anti-Histamine? - I don't know what they can and can't do,

and I need a little more knowledge. You know what I mean? Like what if they're like, we'll make you all of this, you know, couldn't be me.

Like what if you, let's say, hypothetically, were a little lactose intolerant, or like you don't like onions that much? - I don't know. - So what if they're like?

- They're like, we grew verdant crops of Vidalia, onions for you, human. - I feel good. - Would you be like, no? - They're trying to create a good dining experience for you.

They're like, hey, yesterday the water was too hot today, it's too cold, like, let's find something in the middle.

Like, I think that they work around what you need.

- They did, he did find and befriended a very, very friendly species.

- Oh, do you think, yeah, there's probably a little bit more of a hostile version of that guy. - There are a couple movies that I remember about an extraterrestrial coming to our planet, for example, with nothing but love in his heart

and a little light in his finger. And we did not build him a terrarium, so he could just chill out and teach us. - Yeah, we hooked him up with Reese's pieces, though. - One of us did the Ryland Grace of his era did,

but the representatives of the government. - He did not, they did not. - Yeah. - So it is asking a lot of our friends and neighbors in the galaxy.

I'm hearing you talk about space and what you do up there and how quick you quit on humanity.

“- That's the best thing about the movies for spoiling it”

is the reveal of how he ends up on the spaceship. - It was essentially a great twist. - Yeah. - 'Cause that's the only way you're getting me up there, too. (laughing)

That was the only way.

And there's gonna be a sequel, I guess.

- Pretty clearly. - Yeah. - And this is a huge hit. - Did you like the movie? You're ducking it.

- I really liked the present tense experience of watching it. I would say that it probably operated at such a kind of like winky, kind of fun-loving tone from most of it that emotionally it wasn't like as overwhelming for me,

but like honestly like it's so much better than 80 to 90% of the shit. - This is my point. - Yeah. - It is exceptionally well executed

by people who are doing great job. - It's just 20 minutes too long, sure. You know? - And a fun exercise that we don't need to do on this podcast is like who other than Gosling

could have pulled this off? - Because it is a lot. - Yeah, I think it's like a list of, it may be a list of one.

“- I think it may be a list of one, particularly because”

Lord and Miller tend towards comedy so strongly, and he- - This is one is Bernthal, and- - Oh, he's the other one. I don't think my god.

- Gosling is not on. - It's actually, it was Bernthal's part. - Well, we tell you something big dog, do it. You got to make me some affron. Mad stuffy.

- Good morning. - You didn't know what was dealing with super ruffling here. - It's a chat, it's a conversation among friends. We mean at times, we're gonna talk about paradise, season two full spoilers.

So watch that finale if you have an already and then get in, we all talked about top chef and the Philadelphia Eagles. - It was really good. - That was your three main topics.

- Hey, those two things are my paradise. So, see you guys on Thursday. All right, we're joined by Mina Cimes. It was nice enough to come down and talk about paradise with us.

- I thought we were talking about the recoil and signing. - Let's see, that's the thing. - Let me introduce you to me too. - Yeah, started talking about paradise. It's more animated than I've seen her.

- And this is what I've been trying to do with this. - Do you wish you could ask Alex to go back and not sign a story Jackson? - Last year? - Yeah, well, that's keyed in hurt us.

- No. - We're gonna get into that. - I have other issues about last year, but we'll get to it. - Well, it's also what we learned from paradise is the villain might be the hero, you know.

So it could be that Sidney Brown was sent from the future to do nothing. - To fix our cap space. We're not talking about the Eagles cap situation. - Yes, sorry, I do remember.

- We are talking about paradise,

which ended its second season last night

and has become, I don't know, it's somewhere for me between a shared and show and a real show, but like a show that I take deathly seriously, like good boy show. So let me say this, like this was a great example

of I thought paradise that it's best and also 25 minutes where I was just like, I can't remember who this person is or why they're in the prison downstairs. What's your relationship to the show

and how did you feel about the finale? - I love the show. I think your tier point though, it does occupy a weird space between, it's like caught much like length perhaps.

- Yeah. - Travel between timeline. - For the top between timelines. It's like there's like a dose of prestige and a dose of, hey, I mean this,

that we don't really see mixed together a lot in television right now. I right now, I'm watching paradise and the pit, like a lot of people and it's such a throwback combination. - Sure.

- Like two shows that feel like they're from another time. - Yes. - But I really enjoy it. I also am extremely here for time-traveling shenanigans in all of my content.

So when it started making that clear pivot this season, I was seated, I was ready to go on Reddit, I was ready to revisit a lot of my thoughts. - Oh, we all need to know what we're talking about. - Yeah, but I'm really enjoying it.

I thought the finale was great. We knew it was kind of headed towards bringing everybody back together and I wasn't sure how many of the questions about Alex would answer.

“And I think it answered just enough to satisfy us”

while keep us wanting to do that. - Yeah, we found out that Alex is not in fact like a little guy hanging out and like a room somewhere controlling the universe. It is in fact the super computer

that is essentially was built by Dylan/Link, what 10 years ago I imagine, although he doesn't know how old he is and seems unclear about his own past other than the fact that he has in those parents. Andy.

- I want to add, but for I have a take. - Yeah, I will. - Let's hear it. - I'm gonna unload it, but I did want to ask, we wanted, I want to do a test of like your engagement

With the show because I learned that Alex was the wife

of, yeah, in the previously unparadized last night. That was when I learned that. That's my level of attention. - Is it around being like, yeah.

“- Alex is an interesting name, not like,”

wow, Alex is the same name as Henry's... - Yes, like the forms of conflict with Huntington. - Okay, I'm not here to lie to anybody anymore. - Okay, so that's golf. - All right, so you are not locked.

You're not like one of those people on Reddit who's like, if you combine the letters in Alex, it's spelled out the different names that the different characters from Tsu's. - Did you know that ex is an nickname for Xavier?

I learned that last night too. My take is, after watching this finale, that paradise is lost on 2.5 speed. These paradise for the podcast generation. Because the fact, you could look at this,

you can gauge what the show two ways. You could be like, I cannot believe that there was a scene on television in 2026 when a undergraduate interrupts his class to say,

"I invented the most powerful computer of all time

"and I'm carrying you with me in a brief case. "You boring old fuck." And that was just that one scene that guys like cancel all my meetings. He must build this computer.

Lost that would have been a season. - Yeah. - I don't know if that's better. I feel like maybe this is what we're doing. - Too much is happening.

- Well, I don't know if like drawing everything out the way we did 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, or even five years ago, was better.

“I would just say that this is a very aggressive choice”

to tell the story they want to tell and a very limited amount of time. - Yeah, there's like something about it that maybe lacks a little bit of mystery or mysticism. Not that there isn't anything confusing about paradise

or that there isn't like, I suppose any literary backbound bone to what it's doing. But like, lost you'd be watching it. There would be these biblical illusions and there would be,

there is almost like a kind of unknown ability to lost until the very end, which is what people think reacted so negatively to in some ways.

I thought it was fine, bold.

- I think I'm on record being like, I was definitely not a pitchfork situation for me where I was like, this is awful. - To get the show. - That's 'cause you weren't talking head then.

- That's what you couldn't go on for. - I should say, I mean, to tell 'em, you can't go on television, you'd be like, it's fine. - When we podcasted about the leftovers

finale and you brought up all the feelings about it. - Do you know what I was not a lost person? Actually, just by loving everything else that they were lost ever made, passionately, maybe more so than anything else in television?

- I mentioned blurbists. - Yes. - Interesting watching this after blurbists, which is the, maybe 0.5 speed version of the show. And I loved dearly.

The engage was actually some of the same same as as paradise. And I feel like I hold space in my heart for shows that both of those places. I do question how they're gonna wrap this up

in one more season, which we can get to later, but I didn't mind it.

- Let's talk about the finale.

- Maybe you guys can explain some things to me. - Why did they have to blow up the bunker of themselves, essentially? I know that some people were against it and I know that luckily these psychiatrists

in charge of Utopia. - Dr. Charlie, thanks guys. After nighting someone to death in the show. - She's literally all though, maybe not. - It's literally not.

- Maybe not. - She can come back in some other capacity because there's already somebody traveling back in time. - Which she also didn't kill her. - Okay.

- And a hundred percent, she's not. - It was just more she needed to rest. And that was a great, great shower part. - Anytime a psychotic killer is stabbed and they don't check the body,

it's 99% chance, she's alive. - That was a big knife though. I think it's more likely that James comes back all are Dylan. - I believe deeply in the power of therapy, psychotherapy, but I think that she's a little bit

account in front of her skis.

“- You have to be running in running in society”

and murdering people. - There's just not that many people in the cabinet anymore. - You know what I mean? - You saw that control tower room when she's like, do Exodus, it's like the woman there is also the woman

who works at the diner, you know? - There was the point, the fiction of the show, maybe this is why they had to get out of the bunker is that this is either the best and brightest or the most connected.

- Yeah. - And then you see the person who's job it is to type going like yix, things seem to be going haywire and the executive suite type type type type type type. - Yeah.

- Why should you get to go there? - I don't even remember honestly what the criteria was. - So for the chain of men. - Yeah. - And for the chain of men.