Socializing with NYC Mayor Zohran Mamdani

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And support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast. Indeed dot com slash podcast terms and conditions apply. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome once again to the weekly show podcast. My name is John Stuart. It is today is Tuesday, July 21st.

“We are coming off of the beautiful world cup that was held in Canada, Mexico in the United States.”

And what a treat that that was and it's and it's it's over now. And I do hope that the enthusiasm and the love that Americans show for the game of football and for the countries that we're playing. It's I hope this isn't like we had a foreign exchange student come live with us for six weeks. And like got along great, but now that they're gone and every now and again we'll check back in by text. No, I hope that it's a lasting relationship and and one that we that that we value.

But you know, in these times these are that the moments post world cup. There's a period of reflection and and we're going to do that on today's podcast. Not reflecting on the world, but reflecting on one of the cities that was central to the World Cup experience, which was New York City. And who better to check in with New York City and with how things are going at that time than his honor for God's sake's the mayor of New York City. Let's talk to the mayor. Why not? Why not us? Let's talk to the mayor of New York City.

So ladies and gentlemen, we have the distinct honor and pleasure today to be welcoming the mayor of the great great city.

That is the one that never sleeps the biggest apple of them all New York City.

Mayor Zora and mom Donnie is joining us mayor Mr. Mayor your honor. Is honor your honor. How are you? I'm doing all that. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be back. Are you still feeling the afterglow the joy of the of the halo effect of the New York Nickabockers incredible run to the championship this year. Do you still feel it? 100% it is.

It nicks and five has become a greeting in New York City. It's the most beautiful one one question sir at city hall at the end of the canyon of heroes in the parade. There was a great deal of Nick's memorabilia that was hung up around the decorative fashion giant Nick's caricatures Nick's jerseys. I guess my question to you is may I have those. You know what I'll ask the team where they are.

I don't know if there's a shed behind city hall where they keep from but. I'm still there I look at back to you brother I appreciate how are you feeling that so you have been the mayor.

For you started January first it is now July.

Seven months what's the reality of being the mayor is is. How does it feel. After what is the difference between the rhetoric of running for mayor and the reality of governing as mayor. So there's often a lot made of a campaign as if it is easier and a governing as if it is a harder experience.

When you're campaigning you're asking people to believe you're asking them to put their trust into a politics that's often disappointed them.

And when you're governing you can earn their trust by what you deliver. So it is much easier to have a conversation about this vision today when we've been able to pay a 175,000 pot holes put the city on a path to universal child care when more than 60 million dollars for tenants whose landlords made negligence into a business model. When we have that conversation now and you can point to what these last six months have looked like under democratic socialist principles when you have it during the campaign.

I'm sorry we're working record right now. What are you doing? I just wanted to make sure that we're going to be together in the cell and we're all right fair enough.

So that's the interesting thing.

There's a caricature of democratic socialism and there's a reality of democratic socialism and then there is just governing that has very little to do with them.

“With democratic socialism. So can we tease those apart a little bit? What would in your mind? What is governing by the principles of democratic socialism? What does that entail?”

It means making the choice every day to fight for working people. It means that you believe that everyone in your city deserves to live a dignified life no matter how much money is in their pocket. And what we've found is that this city is many things all at once. It's both the wealthiest city in the wealthiest country in the history of the world. And it's also a city where one and four people are living in poverty. And so that you'll often hear the phrase don't sweat the small stuff. To me being a democratic socialist is also sweating the small stuff.

“Because for a lot of New Yorkers, it's those things that are the measure of how difficult or easy their life is.”

Whether they're able not only to pay for their rent or their child care, but whether they're able to also rely on city government to get around their city to breathe in their city to experience life in their city. And I think that we've forgotten that at the heart of what we want to deliver is not just the existence of a public sector. It's also the excellence and efficiency of a public sector. I want New Yorkers to be choosing to this city government every single day as opposed to feeling as if they're subjected to it.

See that to me though that statement if a democrat was running or even a Republican to some extent that feels like something that everybody would say we want everybody to we want everybody be able to thrive in this city. Is there something about democratic socialism as a theory that brings those to bear in other words, is it about the safety net, is it about, you know, the caricature is your communist who's going to nationalize the industries you're going to take over Goldman Sachs. I'm actually coming on this podcast to let you know that it's now my podcast wait what you risk here's what I love about that you walk the walk that's the important thing somebody had to seize the means of the production.

It was it was this specific production that I was talking about. I'm doing this in Jersey I'm out of your jurisdiction man. I'm not even around there you were doing this in Jersey wait you're moving me.

“I think that to your point there there are a lot of politicians of a variety of ideologies who will speak about housing is a human right for example, or health care is a human right or they'll talk about dignity.”

I think that the where the rubber meets the road is are you actually willing to ensure that that which no one should be priced out of no one is in fact priced out of it just so I'll give you an example. Okay child care it's hard to find a politician who'll say child care should be more expensive. They'll generally say they'll generally say it should be more affordable right right. But are you willing to take the step to provide child care as something that is guaranteed to New Yorkers regardless of how much money they have in their pocket.

So one of our focuses has been universal child care right take the successes of free child care for three year olds of pre K and extended to two year olds now it's not just a simple saying oh yes I want to do that you have to also be willing to fight for the revenue you need to do that.

So day eight of our administration we secure an agreement with the governor for one point two billion dollars that on locks free child care for two year olds for the first time in New York City.

Right and our dream is that this will extend not only to the two thousand two year olds this year or the twelve thousand next year but every single two year old by the end of four years and it's not just a dream it's it's a promise and it's a commitment.

It's a completely different ideology than those that we have seen or is it perhaps just a different nomenclature than we've seen.

You know I think I think part of it is that words of loss they're meaning over time there we go that's this is where I'm this is where I'm getting to is is it really about the labels. I think if you go back to some of the democrats that we most admire FDR LaGuardia you will see a lot of democratic socialist principles in their vision. And if you think about a lot of what we've come to accept as just the facts of life across our country a lot of it is also still driven by democratic socialist principles now if today you and I were to introduce the idea of.

A building that lands out books for free we would be slandered in the same way that so many new ideas are slandered today and yet that's the library and the same thing with the fire department the same thing with public schools and it's to say that. A lot of politics has been a debate about who deserves what and I would prefer a politics that debates how we can deliver that to everyone.

And and to deliver it at a standard right so good that no matter how much money in your pocket you opt for that and I think and it's best the New York City subway is an illustration.

“Where no matter how much money you have in your pocket you understand that if you want to get from point A to point B best ways to get on that trend.”

That's for sure so to to that end was there ever a consideration for you because of the priorities that you have. Why take on the label of democratic socialist knowing that it comes with a lot of other baggage that may not be helpful to you in your pursuit of. But what was it about what they were saying that drew you as opposed to running as the things that you're suggesting me if you ran on these as a democrat. I it's not I wouldn't say like what what the heck you know it's it sounds very much in line with that.

It sounds like what you're doing differently is you're being competent or you know ruthlessly pursuing those goals.

And shipping away at them so why take that on you know I I want to be honest with people about what it is that I actually believe in and I also think what we've seen over many decades is a fear mongering in our politics.

“And that's what we're saying that we disagree with or anything that portends significant change is described as if it is socialist you know at times as if it is communist and the intent of that is to end the conversation there and that.”

And it is especially happens when you're talking about something that would disproportionately benefit working people and I think it's important because. Speaking about some of the inequities and inequalities that we see in our city as if they are bugs in a system as opposed to features and. And if we truly want to. who reckon with one in foreign New Yorkers being in poverty, we have to also ask ourselves about if it's important to change the framework with which what we determine success to be.

And also, you know, being a Muslim Democratic socialist, I thought it would be pretty straightforward.

“You're just saying, "Well, what if I label myself something that scares people the most?"”

I'm a Muslim Democratic socialist. And I'd like to run your public transportation system. So is there, in some regard, is this a, is the idea being, if I can show myself to be a competent steward of the day-to-day functioning of maybe, certainly one of the most complex city systems in the world, I can demystify.

I can take these labels that are so loaded with fear, and I can maybe take a little bit of that caricature out of them. I mean, my true goal is to deliver for the people of the city. Right. And if in the process of doing so, we can demystify so much of the fear that has become the

norm in our politics, I welcome it. And I also think that for a long time, we've discussed democratic socialism as an intellectual of debate. We haven't been able to point to what examples look like of it delivering for people.

And I think that it's an incredibly exciting opportunity because there's a reason so many

New Yorkers lost faith in city government. And the political impulse of lecturing someone as to why they should believe and why they

“should vote, as opposed to asking yourself, why is it that they lost that faith?”

When you're governing, you have the opportunity to not just listen, but also then respond in action, not in words. And I think that what's been so exciting is to see that New Yorkers understand that some things will take time and some things that can be done immediately, and if you're able to show that you're doing both, then it is exactly the kind of extension of a norm to

say, would you like to join this movement? And I've just heard from so many that they would. Ground news is what it's about. You know what? I used to sometimes think that you guys are my best friend, but I think ground news might

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Thank you to Ground News for sponsoring this episode. That's such an interesting thing because when you talk about the demonization, you know,

I always think people always say, well, that's anti-capitalist.

“And in some respects, I think it's the opposite.”

You know, capitalism, I think, would have faced a much stiffer opposition from communism and socialism in the 1930s if the new deal hadn't been instituted. If we hadn't had created a more robust social safety net, revolution would have been much more on the table without social security, without better housing for people. And I wonder if that's similar today that in some respects, this, what you're doing is actually

a reform movement for capitalism to some extent. I mean, the sum of the things that you've said, social security, if you go back and see how that was treated, when it was first introduced, right, it was described as the Sovietization of America. Medicare.

And now, it is thought of as one of the most American things that we could ever be talking about. That's right.

“And I think about, you know, when you go around New York City and you see these monuments”

to FDR, to the New Deal, you know, you go to Four Freedom's Park on Roosevelt Island, it is, it is a sad reflection of the state of the Democratic Party that a lot of what is said in those programs and those visions today would sound as if it is a bridge to ambitious for the party that we belong to. Right.

And I think that's part of my hope as a Democrat is, how do we ensure that New Yorkers and Americans don't have to look to the history books to be able to find a party platform that speaks about a freedom from want and a freedom from fear? Well, I think it's a question of also how you're going to get there, because I think, you know, if I may, and you tell me if you think this is wrong, as I watch you pursuing

your agenda, it doesn't seem radical, it seems workmen like you, you know, when you talked about the Universal Chalker, you didn't seize, you didn't seize the means of childcare and create a Soviet-style system where they all get the same little uniform and they all come in at four years old and they, you know, pray to the gods of socialism, you didn't even really race act, you went to the governor and she was able to help, you know, fill

in a little bit of the financial gap, you created a Piedetare tax for, you know, second

radical reinventions, it feels like smart, prioritizing, if I may. Well, I think that a lot of it comes back to how do you judge the success of your work?

“And I think you have to judge it by what you deliver.”

And one of the cornerstones of our campaign was Universal Childcare, given the fact that in a cost of living crisis, childcare is the second highest expense for families in New York City. Talking about $20,000 a year for a single child. And in this city, you have to make $334,000 to be able to afford that kind of expense.

And to me, it is, how do we move as quickly as possible? Is that all over the city? Does that vary in boroughs or that's that's the average for all five boroughs? That's the measure across the five boroughs that that's how much your family would have to earn to be able to absorb that kind of a hit, and people earn less than that, and

they find ways to make it work, but not without it being to the detriment of themselves in their financial situation.

And I think that, you know, I never thought that I'd be the guy making it easier for aunties

at the family function to pressure you into having a kid, but here we are. So in some respects, Zora and Mamdoni's mayoralty has been an afferedeasy act for New Yorkers to begin to repopulate this grand experiment. And so I can see the attack ads now. Exactly.

Zora and Mamdoni, the afferedeasy act. So what about what you're trying to deliver has been slightly more complicated than what you thought it would be. You know, we can walk through a housing.

“So you're able to get through a rent freeze, a two-year rent freeze, yes?”

Yeah. The independent rent guidelines board established a two-year rent freeze for over two million New Yorkers who live in rent stabilized housing. Right. And again, not when they, when people immediately cried, communism, it's not unprecedented.

The two years is unprecedented, but this has been done for one year by other mayors. But yeah, they have done it in the past, yeah. What about in terms of housing? What's been, you know, what have you been able to deliver, what's frustrated you, what's the next step?

Well, I think I'll just take a step back to tell you, John, that the most challenging thing overall was when I came into this position, I expected that it would be difficult in terms of the finances of the city, especially given my predecessors approach to those finances.

What I did not expect was $12 billion worth of difficulty.

Right. And your, your the fiscal conservative, like even with the city council, you've got what is her name, Menon? Julie Menon. Julie Menon, upper East side, wealthy upper East side lady, we all know the caricature.

You know, they don't pick up after their dogs. You know what I'm talking about? You're the fiscal conservative in that relationship. Did that surprise you? You know, when I've talked about wanting city government to be remade in the image of a struggling

New Yorker, one aspect of it is that we be as careful with our money as working New Yorkers are with theirs. And one of the many reasons for that is that this is their money. And when we're looking at, when we looked at that fiscal deficit, what was hard, one of the many things that was challenging about it is that you couldn't blame it on an external

reality. You couldn't say, oh, it's the fiscal crisis of 2008, everyone can see what's going on across the country and the world. This was, in many ways, purely of city halls doing. It was mismanagement and underbudgeting, and it had been building for years.

And I think that one of my goals is how do we write the ship, not just in a 12 month interval, but frankly, on a medium and a long term, because if you're just trying to survive on a calendar year basis, you're, you know, in many ways, going to have to rob Peter to pay Paul. And that's eventually that bill is going to come due.

And the thing that I'm looking forward to next year is that we're not going to have

to inherit a 12 billion dollar fiscal deficit, no matter how tough it is.

Right. Right.

“Although that's what do you do with, you know, there are certain things that, you know,”

they sort of call them gimmicks as you start to balance the budget. And there are a lot of the mayors have done that. There's sort of these things that they pass along to other, I think Bloomberg was one of the ones who did it, you know, how does straightening out that without pulling from different pension funds that are going to, you know, mature in 2032, how do you begin to straighten

those finances out without having to use kinds of, you know, it's, in some ways, it's like you're the GM of a football team that's got a salary, you know, you don't want to go

And so how do you begin to do that in a manner that is more objectively grounded and, not really budgetary, uh, magic? Well, first, you, you, you brought it up, so I just got to say, I'm already missing Mitch. It's very, it's very, it's very, it's very, it's very, it's very, well, we'll continue

out. Did you see this comment on the Boston Celtics and Instagram page? Well, no. Oh, when he went after the Celtics fans, when he said I own you, like, God bless. Can I say something, there is a monster truck sized hole in my heart.

Yes. It's one of the best TikTok pages to go to. He's the best, so, so funny.

I never appreciated those cars until I saw those videos.

I know. Seeing him standing. I think that was his truck in the parade, by the way, I don't even think that was, I think that was actually, he just drove, he drove there that day and just gotten the back of it.

I think that's how it worked. God bless. Yeah.

“But, but to your, to your actual question, I think one of the key things is you have to”

ask yourself, is this arbitrary or does this have a rationale? Okay. And what I mean by that is, for example, with the pension system, we had a deferred payment that was spread out over about 22 years or so. And every year, the cost to the city was increasing and then it was going to just fall

off a cliff in terms of the city, it was going to go up about maybe $6 billion a year and

the next year is going to be $0 and some of the challenges that we're facing are challenges of this moment specifically because of just how much underbudgeting there was, how much money the city was spending, but not showing on its books for a lot of its different social programs and services. And so when we looked at that and we said, you know, if you just spread what had already

been 22 years, you just extended by a few years, you would then be able to take savings that you will get the year after as your schedule to, but instead spread them over, then you can actually make sure that you're able to store this in a way that's more healthy in a medium term level. Now I know that there are others who've seen municipalities move around their pension

obligations and there's a worry of what does this mean for, you know, are you going to honor that this, that and the other, the thing that's different in New York City is that we are not only funding our pension systems at a much higher level than many of the other municipalities that are being cited, but also that it's not a question of if we're going to get to 100% funded, it's just a question of when in the 2030s we would do so.

“And so that's, and then do you have to look at it, because I guess there's sort of different”

areas like, we'll spend less here, but we need to raise more revenue here, is there a kind of interplay between the kinds of taxes, because everybody I imagine is not going to go along with really raising taxes in the same way that you might want to. Well, I think, I think what you'll find, actually, is there a lot of people in Albany who do agree with the vision of raising taxes a little bit more on the wealthiest so that everyone

can afford life into New York City, and, you know, what, what, but what it is, as you said, is it can't just be one thing. It has to both be a conversation about revenue and a conversation about savings. So we actually created something called Chief Savings Officers for the first time where we had an every single agency and department.

Oh, sure. CSOs. It's just sitting right there. You're at the water cooler. You're talking to your friend, you're like, hey, you heard about the CSOs?

What do you think about the CSOs? Yeah, the CSOs come in here. Yeah. You got like five CSOs over here. Me and my CSOs are hanging out, catch it out.

Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah.

And the CSOs, they found about $1.7 billion in savings across city government and they're actually

going to continue that work, because when you look at the size of our budget and you also look at what the approach has been to the finances of our city, we know that there are more savings to be had. And sometimes these are the efficiencies that come from when you're actually pressure testing how we've been doing things.

They're savings to be had when you actually say that, you know, could that contract that

“you're giving to a consultant actually be done in house?”

Right. And it can be a lot of times. Where there's stuff in the budget as you went through, you're like $100 million on meetings. What is this?

Do you find things that you couldn't believe, you were just like, where's these love seats? What's going on? I haven't seen that specific example. You don't comb it through like that.

But no, but we do comb through. And there were a number of things where you can't provide a justification for it. And if you can't provide one, then why should the city be spending that money? And it, a lot of times it comes from a vision of government where you want to hollow out its capacity and privatize as much of its responsibility.

And oftentimes it's done in the name of fiscal prudence.

would look like if you invested internally.

I mean, you know, we've talked about in the past this, you know, the previous administration had an AI chatbot that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars that was not even usable.

“Was it just like the Microsoft paper clip that just pops up?”

What can I do for you today? It's just as jeeps. He's just back. Right. That's all they do is they just run it through that.

And you look at that. And it's not just the amount of money. It's also the number of vendors that we went through to get to that point.

“It just speaks to an approach to contracting that does not actually save you money.”

And it doesn't build any kind of long-term fluency. What it does is just lock you in to commitments that will cost you money. And oftentimes won't even perform those services. I don't know if you know this about me, but my summer wardrobe is. And I've taken to this room for many years now is I wear only 19th century swimwear.

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This gets us back to so the contrast between the caricature of you if you spend any time speaking to you. There's a grounded seriousness and reality to the way that you're approaching these problems.

Look there's going to be mistakes there's going to be the first snow storm is not going to be the same as the second snow storm as Fat Jo has in his song.

Today's snow storm is not tomorrow but that was the first draft of that song that was the first draft of that song. But the caricature so to trumple tweet out communist lunatic and are there criticisms that bother you are there ones you laughed on you know the city tweeted out during the heat wave. Put your thermostats to 78 and immediately Ted Cruz from Texas is like South the warmth of collectivism. Meanwhile Texas tweets out the same thing and so does the energy department of the United States of America which they pull off of their website.

Out of fear that now they will be associated with this do any of those criticisms permeate to any of them land. Have you heard any of the criticisms where you thought to yourself actually that's constructive and I will think about how to make adjustments to that. Look I I took a fence when they came for socialist icon Rudy Giuliani's energy policy. I said you say what you want about me. But yeah no you you know what let's nobody puts Rudy in a corner.

“That's that's not going there let's not but that's not but I think you know.”

It is easy when there is this much noise right to tell yourself that all of it is exactly that tune it all out. But that's also what it will leave you in an echo chamber you cannot have it that you are only surrounded by people who agree with you. You might as well just stay home at that point and I think that the job that I have that my team has that our administration has is how do you listen to all of it. And then separate out what is actually worth engaging with and what is just driven by the algorithm and written in response to what the algorithm response to and rewards.

And I think that's something that I love about this city is you especially see it in in kind of sports culture but I would say even in in the cultural aspect of the city there is this sense of having to be the best of driving yourself. Each and every day and yet in our politics that often feels as if it's missing there there is somehow in a city that is that is the best in the world it's so many things mediocrity has come to be accepted as the standard in our politics.

“And I think that that's it's something that that we shouldn't accept any longer.”

And maybe I think it was one of the things that I think drew people to you if I may as there was a it didn't just feel like platitudes there was a specificity to.

The affordability argument you know I see a lot of politicians that they they perform the rhetoric of that argument. We need to get back to kitchen table issues and all that rather than going out to a whole all food truck and go why is this $14 there's like three pieces of chicken in here it's right like why does that cost that would you know. Is is affordability the toughest challenge that you think you'll face.

“I think so is this still could there still be a middle class city that that is what it has to be I think if if we.”

If we allow it to continue on the path it's been for many years it will become a museum of we're working class people once lived and we we don't want this to be something that people can visit to pay tribute to what it wants what it's we want it to be. So living breathing testament to that energy and I think what is one of the most concerning things that I years when I turn to someone who is working as hard as they can for the city and I asked them how long their commute home is.

I think it's ours because they're going to another state or another city that's a reflection of a failure to ensure that those who build the city can live in the city.

And the reason I think that affordability will be our greatest challenge and also our greatest opportunity is this is what is pushing people out of the city. This entangle a cost of housing of childcare of groceries from the exodus of working class people from out of the city some of these things are near city specific some of them are true across the entire country and we have to finally change direction so that people can actually afford to live here. See that I think it's said it brings up such an interesting point and you don't get sick I don't know what they're doing you protect get this man some pure out and if you do not get sick brother.

I'm on that emergency every day take that take that fight and see we need you on that wall you get on that wall you're shaking too many hands I see it every day. Yeah, you know the big talking point is my god this communist lunatic is going to drive out our billionaires as though that is the reason that people are drawn to New York that that tourists come here and go let's go down to little billionaire and it's the area of New York where the billionaires live and we can enjoy a small slice of how they live.

But the real danger to New York is not the couple of billionaires who feel as though taxing their second home is too burdensome for that.

But the exodus of essential workers who can no longer afford to be anywhere near this area wouldn't that be much more devastating.

And and I think what you're saying speaks to the fact that for all of the conversation about an imagined capital flight they're already is a flight it's just of working class people. And we know that the racial dynamics of this are also immense but we've seen over the past few decades our city has lost 200,000 black New Yorkers from 2010 to 2019 the population of black children and teenagers declined by 19 percent. And you can feel that in this city in neighborhoods that are shells of what they once were and small businesses that don't have those same customers coming through the came in for years in classrooms that are a little less full.

“And if you want to be honest about what it's going to take it's not just going to be one day to the next it's also going to have to be a complete shift I mean I'll give you an example of this when we talk about housing.”

The early 1960s New York City started to make decisions that would render it unable to build the level of housing it needed to keep up with demand that to change that. What were those to see are those zoning decisions a lot of those are zoning decisions their decisions around capacity and and also around size of building scale of building.

One of the critical things here is we have to treat the cost of living crisis as both the short term crisis and a long term crisis we have to take immediate action and then we have to do the long term work of being able to build 200,000 new affordable homes over 10 years because if you do not have a city that is growing a city that is building. And it's difficult because here's it now here's your dilemma you make this you make this place too nice and rents are really going to then the whole then because you are you're in a vicious cycle in some respect look.

We joke about it but there are a lot of people in Brooklyn that are resentful as Brooklyn started to change and develop it gentrified and suddenly the people that lived in Brooklyn at my family did when when when when they came here couldn't afford to live there anymore it's is though when they finally came in and made the neighborhoods more livable that drove out the people that had been living there and I imagine that's a difficult problem to solve as well.

“It's this strange trap and and I think anyone growing up in the city has gone through the experience of looking at a construction site in their neighborhood and asking themselves is this for me or is this going to push me out.”

And and one of the key things here is that we have to both build more housing than we've ever seen in our city in a long time and do it while strengthening the tenant protections that we have in this city so that we're not forced to choose between the tenants of today and the tenants of tomorrow and I think to what you said. There are a lot of New Yorkers who rightfully associate even just investments in their own neighborhood as if it is the appetizer to display right and we have to show that these things are not in fact tied together you do not need new residents to invest in that old park you can do that and I think.

When we go back to this conversation around the fiscal deficit of the $12 billion there there is in that moment it is all too easy to say my only focus right now is to get out of this fiscal crisis and then everything else will figure it out next year. I'm going to want to also use it as an opportunity to show that we mean what we say that you do want to still fund your parks your libraries your cultural institutions and do it in a way that annualizes that funding as opposed to making it subject to every single years.

“And that's also to me what is a critical part of earning those New Yorkers trust back is that they see those investments in their neighborhood and they see it before anyone's ever going to talk to them but you may have to leave we want them to stay.”

And sometimes it seems like a ridiculous thing one of the most important things you did was getting people to take some of that scaffolding down like it's things that you do like it the scaffolding is so a part of the landscape that I almost thought of it as like oh that's how buildings are like they're built and people just hang scaffolding like Christmas lights just never take them down like that's just a crazy weird thing and when you start taking them down you're like oh. Wow to your beautiful.

It's it's we treated it as if it was part of the physical landscape of the city right and I think so much of what the approach has been is it is what it is this is how it's always been and that's just not acceptable and I think to to your point when you are able to change these kinds of ways that New Yorkers measure their quality of life.

It gives them it's an invitation to them to hope and believe but if you don't change those things then why should they take that step.

Right and so getting back to the original sort of you know that idea of redefining sort of what democratic socialism can do for a city this complex and and and this size and kind of the realism that has to go along with it and the budgetary.

“You know restrictions and things that you have to get there.”

Do you in any way have that conversation with.

So now democratic socialism is considered the hottest trend in the democratic party and and there's there's energy grassroots energy and all and and these democratic socialist candidates are popping up. And you are having to answer for every one of their policy positions and there are some look. Maybe I'm an old man or a shit Lib or whatever they want to call me, but you know anybody if you if someone says we're going to abolish all prisons and borders like I do go I don't think that's a good idea.

Like it's it feels like order and security is also a progressive value why shouldn't people in neighborhoods with less resources have the same safety and security that neighborhoods with lots of resources.

If you have more than one socialist in a room and there isn't disagreement then you don't have more than one socialist in a room.

We're actually just trying to change that law for right we're trying to get it to do sort of like how soccer used to be in the NASL and the 80s there had to be two Americans on every team so there's got to be there's got to be two socialists in everybody.

“Look man now we have quarters and I didn't think that day was going to come with with with with the world cup that's what I'm talking about.”

What would those kinds of discussions well I'm comfortable with disagreement and I'm comfortable with disagreement that doesn't end the conversation entirely because I think what motivates a lot of people is how do you deliver public safety and the thing that I've said time and again is we cannot have New Yorkers choose between safety and justice and yes I am you know doing the work with our police department and we have been able to deliver the lowest number of murders and shootings in recorded history.

And at the same time I'm doing the work to close down Riker's Island and ensure that we are actually building the four smaller burrow base jails that brings an end to a horrible chapter in New York City history and I think to your point you know when we're thinking about safety there cannot be a hierarchy of safety where you experience it more or less depending on where you live in our city or how much money is in your pocket and there also can't be a definition of safety that is purely after the fact.

The fact meaning that how you respond to violence we also have to do the work of investing so that we prevent violence to that point the department of community safety which is you know one of those things that you would ran on which I think was sort of reprioritizing some of those assets so that.

“Not necessarily it was always police were the first responders to everything there was also so how how has that come I know it the money for it didn't exist you had to do an executive order I believe.”

What's what's the status of that how is that grown so we've we've created that office of community safety we have for the first time in New York City now a deputy mayor for community safety read a Francois who's doing great work and putting together what is right now a quarter of a billion dollar budget in a lot of the very kinds of things that you're talking about. And I think you know one of the clearest examples to me is we have asked police officers to do almost everything we can think of when it comes to dealing with the failures of not just the social safety net but also violent crime and also and also across the five burrows.

And what we found time and again is that these same officers who signed up to join the department to respond to violent crime to prevent violent crime are also being tasked with responding to a mental health call. And this is the kind of work that undermines both our ability to deliver on public safety as a whole and it shows that we need to develop a new model here and so one of the focuses coming out of the office of community safety is how do we provide.

The investment and the support so that when a New Yorker calls or help with a mental health crisis that they can also receive that help from mental health professionals as well.

And that's something that continues alongside the incredible work that the office is doing with gun violence prevention which is work that always we always need to do more and more of because we know it's an epidemic in this city and across this country. That prevention work also comes with investing in gun violence interrupters in the crisis management system and I've had the privilege of meeting a number of young people who themselves have been victims of gun violence and they've told me how organizations like the ones that New York City invests and are the ones that will respond to them in the moment and make sure that retaliation isn't something they're thinking about but rather recuperation is what they're focused on.

Right so that it's it's there's a wide variety of introductions that you can do in those various situations not just after the fact make those arrest. There's a whole cadre of groups that you know look they stood in opposition to you. There was a great amount of fear and we can run through them from police department.

I think there was a lot of fear there and I know listen the cops in this city they do incredible incredible work and they don't necessarily get the recognition and the care.

“You know I think there was a lot of hostility to them for a lot of years and I and I I think that's unfortunate I think they're you know like you say that's something that you have to.”

The battle with there's Trump supporters New York City has has everything. There's the other class we got it all what's your outreach like to those communities what have you learned from those communities what have you learned from those people how do you interact with them.

I think the first thing you have to do is walk into those conversations without having already made a judgment.

When when when you walk into it with an open mind then it means that you can actually.

“Have a conversation and make a decision as to how you feel after you have that conversation right and I think in a lot of our politics.”

We we label people and then disregard them entirely we treat them as if they're not even people worth engaging with and look. I'll have conversations with more billionaires that oppose my fiscal policies than those that don't but there's still more things to actually be discussed about with them. And similarly you know what I've also found is to our benefit. The caricature of me and what our administration would mean was still immense when I walk into a room and I don't immediately triangle three people that are in front of me.

People are taking a back that like that actually be his back. A slightly low bar for a conversation that what about you have did you have caricatures of them are there you know look. I saw when you tried to go to Staten Island that was a rough ride but are there caricatures that you've had of those folks that have been shattered when you've spent time with them. I think when we talk about Staten Island you know what comes to mind for me is when I went there I was being protested outside by a number of of Staten Islanders who are very supportive of the president deeply opposed to me.

And then when I went inside the restaurant there were other Staten Islanders who were very excited about me coming there and to me it also shows me that. You can just paint a broad brush and say you know what I'm not going it's actually funny that you mention it because right after this I'm going to Staten Island. I didn't plan that have a Capricy salad for me my friend. I got you right. Beautiful thing.

“But yes you you grew up in the city you have caricatures of so many people and you have to leave those at the door and you also have to be willing to move beyond them and for some of those conversations to be actually good faith ones.”

To offer people the ability to critique you to you.

And and I think you know sometimes when you're the mayor you're in a position of power you want people to just tell you oh you're incredible here's where I love most about your agenda.

It's like you're not actually going to get anything done if that's how you want to be treated. We do have some leaders in this country who appreciate who appreciate that and and and I'm cognizant of your time and I really appreciate. You've just been here so the final question which I have to ask you because it's it's dominating the news today. You know and I the question to you is. The Netanyahu thing and arresting Netanyahu understanding where you're coming from there.

Is there a sense you have it maybe is that a distraction from all these other things that you want to do. Is that taking a little bit more of the media space than you realized.

“Well I think I have a responsibility to be honest with New Yorkers and when I asked a question to answer it honestly.”

So that was brought up to you. That was brought up to you. Yes. Yes. And yet I know for many New Yorkers when they see a clip it doesn't begin with the question it begins with the answer.

Right. I think the the focus always has to be on the work that you're doing and how you find a balance between.

You know not giving your kind of a classic you know a political deflection where you don't want to answer any of those questions and focusing on the work and still finding that together. And are there any other. Leaders that you would also like to arrest because I have a list of just anybody who these like you see is gold for our seven or we should be honored. Very very good Mr. Mayor thanks so much for joining us and keep going and we'll check back in. Every six to seven every next championship you'll come on this show. See you next year.

Fantastic. Enjoy that. And I'll have a big day. Thank you my friend. Thanks for joining us. Thank you guys. Oh, folks. It's back. It's bomb us. You know I love the bomb us because let me tell you something about my feet. I'm a delicate flower when it comes to my my feet they my feet have to be insconced in. Luscious fabrics your socks your socks are the building block of your entire outfit if the socks aren't going you're not having yourself.

A day and I have had you know those socks that and you wear them a couple times and you wash them and they turn crinkly like how to socks get like is the elastic just melt. Is it some sort of is it material that's biodegradable and it just turns into nonsense but the bomb is sock and especially the sports sock.

The point is this you put your boots back in the closet and you got bomb us warm weather foot fair ready for the rotation they got slides and sandals that they've revolutionized the feet game foot game feet plural whatever it is.

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Guys been on the job six seven months. How is his hair darker now. He's getting younger. He said he's on monoxidil. He did. Is that really true? He did. Wow guy. That's some radical transparency. What is that something that what would that work we could try it Jesus is that what can wait what have I been doing wrong youth baby youth. I've been on smoke and and browsing crazy that that doesn't work somebody should yeah some of the public says that. They really should get into that.

“It's so interesting to me and I would imagine he somewhat like Obama was is very effective in diffusing the caricature because when you do talk to him it's very clear his focus is.”

It's a very grounded in the brass tax of the logistics of how he's going to do this shit and not necessarily the broad strokes of.

We must take over first the means of production like he's literally like there's this fund.

And so what we do is we defer the annual of the fund to 35 and then we can fund the chat like it's it's very serious. I mean we really be AC thing for us stupid as it was just a great example of that where he's like set your receipts to 78 and then they have a full blown panic call it socialism call it communism. And he's like set your receipts to 78 just do it. I don't know what to tell you. Well the funny thing was it wasn't even him set like it was like an auto you know an auto text it goes out during heat waves that had been going out.

And going out for like a decade exactly yeah it like he was just end up looking foolish like he's just running the city. Right, but they really they make it seem as though he literally was sitting back there goes. We must feel this a press of heat. Because to billionaires must understand that the people the favor of the yeah it is a huge threat to them it's like any thought about collectivism is a threat to their way of life. You know they're like radical individualists they think about only themselves these politicians and the idea that you might have to suffer a little bit of warmth so that everybody else can feel a little cool.

Is a threat. Don't understand about it is it's already dynamic we have in this country now in the last 50 years obviously capital has been overvalued and labor has been undervalued and that's kind of through policy.

“That's how this inequality I think has been allowed to grow you don't tax capital the same way you tax labor you know salaries are for suckers as they say.”

But it's not as though collectivism is unheard of it they make it sound like we've all been living the fountain head. Yeah, it's so fucking weird to me like Republicans with social security is sacrificing Medicare is sacrificing what do you think those are. That's setting our thermos that's to 78 in a heat wave it's the same fucking thing and that's why people really like them they're very popular. People love 78 who that's a great time for sure who love 78. I'm if I may say it's a range 75 is you know guys I'm currently set to 62.

That is not true. Yeah, you know get. Get out of that house. We're going to get the office of community safety on you Brittany. What's about listen I know the vote like when you guys are out in the city do you feel any difference in the management of it right now do you feel any like there have been times that I've been in the city and I have felt.

Like when I first moved there in 86 87 and all that like it did not feel like a safe place it did not like and and you know there was a in in that burst of.

When they started busing in a lot of immigrants at the city was not able to absorb it first you felt the difference there.

You know for the majority of that time.

I think like what the mayor's office. But realistic everybody who lives in New York City feels safe but have to be realistic. Yeah like your headphones out at night you know like if you're walking around we all we all make those choices.

“But I think what the mayor's office is doing so well is like communicating what they're doing I don't know how much.”

I would be aware of that has changed in the past six months if it wasn't for such an effective media strategy which is a huge part of governing effectively it's like.

Do your job do it well and let people know that you are doing your job well.

I think he's undeniably changed the mood slash attitude like towards politics overall. Which I think is such a huge win and like also just reshump people that like politics doesn't have to be just businesses usual anymore. And it's okay not like he's just like we've talked about this but the good vibes he's put back into the city like the happiness that's not. It's not meaningless yet. It's not meaningless. It makes you excited to be part of a community and be out there and and celebrate wins and and do fun stuff together.

“He's also let's let's I mean to come in on a next championship in a world cup.”

That is that that that's also timing there's a certain amount of timing like he could have come in on you know the 18th meds collapse. Like which he is like simultaneously. Yeah, but it gives a shit anymore. I don't even I watch him. That's now I'm like eight to three. It's next time. Yeah. Okay John. Yes or no. Did Joe Biden win the 2020 election at this time. I'm I'm not going to be drawn into this kind of conversation.

And I defer to my previous statements on the matter. It's simple John. Yes or no.

“Joe Biden was certified in the 2020 election Joe Biden slept in the house that is traditionally reserved for the president of the United States when Joe Biden would at three in the morning.”

Asc the chefs who are on call at that same house to make him a grilled cheese sandwich. They would do it. Thus reflecting his certified position. It's so fucking bonkers. Have you woke up from a coma in 2022 and said Biden is a bit that you would be. Yes, if someone were to ask the question on jeopardy during the years of 2021 to 2024. The president currently certified of the United States of America recognized internationally. The answer would be who is Joe Robinette.

Biden and that is all. Your time is up. That's it. Thank you so much. Next question. I yield. I yield my time. What the fuck are we doing? Like it's insane. And it's all done to just flatter the, you know, I don't doubt now that with the ideological heart hiring there. He does have some true believers who are, I mean, there was a guy in Homeland Security who was like, you know, sometimes I transport myself into Chick-fil-A's. Like I'm sure there's like lunatics out there, but overwhelmingly it is a, you know, there's a thing in football, like sometimes you see it if you're watching the film like, you know,

Derek Henry will be charging down the field with the ball and he's a giant running bag and like very difficult to tackle and you'll see a corner back kind of come up

and like do a little bit of a shemmy and not really make direct contact and they always just to the call as a corner back made a business decision.

That was a business decision that was made. These people in these hearings are making business decisions. They're fielded to Trump oftentimes is a business decision or it's a building block in their larger project of reclaiming this country for the heritage Americans who they think built and that's and that's all it is and they know it's nonsense and the way you know they know it's nonsense. All the years they've had to prove it and they've never once they can fucking do every they can do any late night.

Presidential address that they want, but there are places where you can adjudicate where you can bring your evidence to a place that has evidentiary standards.

They can't.

They cherry pick you know intelligence reports until they can find the thing not realizing that the rest of the page debunks it completely.

They have no ability they shoot their own arguments in the dick time after time after time. But if they really believed it and if it was really true, we'd know it because they would have taken it and they would have given it. Credence and credibility by applying actual evidentiary standard to it and they don't. Fuck them. Fuck them.

All right. And I was going to say feed and beans, but no. No beans for them. They don't deserve beans. Yeah, they don't get up.

I don't know why I got mad at that. That was like a weird. You should get mad. We should honestly be pretty mad about that. We're all naked. It's pretty hot.

I had like a weird. Yeah, it's it's watching that theater is it's such a weird performance to do.

Yeah, like, especially I mean, I don't know not to get like two, but like people that are supposed to then take on a position that's independent of the president. Like you think of Kevin Marsh the new Fed chairman. Like you're supposed to not care what the president thinks and you care so much about what the president thinks. You're going against every sense of like every bit of common sense in your head to not be able to say that he fucking lost in 2020. And then we're supposed to have any faith in this is like, but no, no, no, no.

He's actually independent. How? But it is, you know, in a lot of ways, it's like in the middle of a job interview where, you know, where national security depends on your competence, where the rule of law depends on your ability to understand it and execute it. And in the middle of it, they go, and a one final question are keybler elves read. And you have to go.

Sir, I've seen no evidence that they are real or unreal. I do know that cookies are delicious. Whether or not they are made in trees is not my purview.

“And I would like that's how ridiculous it all is.”

There are unserious people.

It dumb. Yes. Okay. What else? John.

Do you think Donald Trump will write a presidential memoir? No. I think someone will write a presidential memoir, and it will say written by Donald Trump. But it will not be written by Donald Trump. Yeah.

You think Donald Trump will write his name, allegedly, on a piece of paper. You know, I don't, I don't, I think Donald Trump will fill my presidential movie about it. I think Donald Trump will do a radio serial on. I think there will be a podcast. There will be a building somewhere in Florida that will look like the legion of doom.

And you know what?

“If I'm Donald Trump, the truth is, if you're Donald Trump, your heart press not to think you are that special boy.”

Because he really has lived this weird life that lacks accountability, where the rest of us really are NPCs. They storm the capital. And it's that they beat the shit out of police officers. They sprayed, they hit them with flag poles with the Confederate flag flying off them. And in the next election, he won anyway.

And he had sex with a porn actress after the birth of his son and his wife was like, man, like, how could you not live that life? And you know, and paid the actor $130,000. And his lawyer went to jail for it. He was fine.

It is like at a certain point, it's that M. Night Channel on movie with Bruce Willis. Like, invincible. It's a train wreck. Hey, but my clothes aren't even ripped. That's good.

Yeah. Like, how do you not come away from that thinking? I guess I am a god. And talk between rain drops. Like, it's, I don't know.

I would, if I was him, I'd think pretty highly of myself as well. Yeah, maybe not. But then how can I be hard to think that highly?

“No, well, no, he's still like, I think he looks.”

I think when he was on stage with those Spanish football players, who had just won the World Cup and he was standing there, you know, in his looking like like a weird door to another dementia. Like, I bet he said they're like, I wonder if they can tell us apart. We're all fit athletes.

Look at us over here. Just 21, 22. Super hot guys in the sun. Celebrating a big victory. Uh, catcha.

And then he, that's, ha, cha, cha, cha. Doesn't his physical say he's like 210 or something? It's crazy. Yeah, they showed it once. If you took his stats like 6, 3, 2, 25.

And then they showed like, uh,

of a specimen and like that dude, 6, 3, 2, 25.

And Trump says no to like with his head slowly sinking into his shoulders and his front butt slowly consuming his back butt.

“And you're just like, what kind of fairy tale are we fucking lemon in here?”

Why? That's the next thing that they should ask in the Senate when they come for their confirmation hearings. What do you think the president weighs? That would be hilarious.

Well, there's obviously muscle and visual fun. And then of course there's bone and the brain. And the brain. So big. And the brain that the weight is most likely the brain that it's taking home.

Okay, last one. dark. Crunchy or smooth.

Oh, I mean, I can't even imagine that this question

made it past our screeners that made it past the thing. The idea that you would settle for only one sensation when it comes to a snack when you can have two sensations and the same flavor.

“I mean, that's honestly why would you opt for less fun?”

Like, that, oh, do you want ice cream with whipped cream? Uh, yeah, isn't that more? That's better. Like, crunchy is just better. Smooth.

I don't even understand what the purpose of it is, except for like caulking. Like crunchy. If you're going to have peanut butter

and there's an ability to add a crunch to it.

Okay. And by the way, layer, I'm not done. Honey, banana, some jam. Like throw a fucking party. If you're going to have it, have it.

Do it. And by the way, I apologize if either one of you is smooth and I know I've actually pinned you now down to a very untenable position. I just thought you were going with that as to say,

like, why limit yourself? Like, you can have either one. But I see what you're saying now is I do just have one and it's crunchy. No, this isn't a question of choice.

Yeah. I don't know how to admit this, but I must move girl. Right now. Right now, how long have we known each other?

Did I leave? There's, you know, we, and I, you know how highly I think of you and how much I value the work that you do. Oh, no.

“And that's why this is, it's so hard for many.”

Brittany, I had no idea. I know. This whole time, Brittany, this whole time. I didn't want to admit it. Very interesting though, Brittany.

This is an insight. The more you know. Is it strange that I have, I guess, more emotion in that than when I'm talking about the Strait of Hormos.

Is that, is that weird? No. Fux moves. Very nice. Well, how do they keep in touch with us, for God's sake?

For more of these scintillating takes that I have on, on food. Twitter, we are a weekly show pod. Instagram threads, Tik Tok, Blue Sky. We are a weekly show pod cast. And you can like, subscribe and comment on our YouTube channel.

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