The Messy, Beautiful World Cup with Roger Bennett and Tariq Panja

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Here. Done with these. Iranian negotiations and reflecting pool shenanigans. I want to talk what I've been feeling lately. What I've been feeling the excitement of lately.

What's been running through my blood lately is this world cup. This United States team that is making so far a really nice run. A fine attacking football, fun attacking football, showing themselves to be really a quality side. And that's what we're going to do. We're talking world cup.

We're talking and I'm not talking FIFA, Peace Prize, World Cup. I'm talking World Cup.

“The teams, the stories, why it's so important to us, why we love it.”

And we couldn't have two better guests to do this. We've got Roger Bennett. Founder of the Men in Blazers Media Network in Tariq, Poncha. Global Sports Corps, spawn at the New York Times. And they're going to carry us through this World Cup frenzy.

Ladies and gentlemen, I am struck by World Cup fever as many of you are at home as well. And we couldn't have better guests today. We couldn't. I could tell you we couldn't. Because we couldn't get better guests.

We could not get better guests is what I'm saying. You could, Jones. Let's hand in a like. See, we're available. It's really all about the emphasis.

That's exactly right. Roger Bennett. Founder of the Fantastic Men in Blazers Media Network. And Tariq, Poncha, Global Sports Corps, spawn at New York Times. Gentlemen, what the heck?

First of all, Roger, it is such a delight to have you on the program.

To see you by your iconic map. Well, with them up. And Tariq, to have you in your iconic flee bag motel. That's about right. Wherever they're putting you up.

I don't know what the New York Times budget is for sports reporting, but I need to help. I don't know, man. You, you tell them. You tell them to. It's good to see you both.

John, it's good to be with you. It's not often both of us are with footballing icon. Ten goals. Twelve assists. For the William and Mary tribe.

Oh, you got to stats. I've got, I mean, everybody. Everyone's talking about it. When they think about you, they think about you as like. The man you are, the conscience of America.

But I think more people know you is just that hard hitting midfielder. No. And the coach, I'll, but an iconic legend. The man who really made football. Go in this country.

No. I don't expect. Now, Roger, I do want to explain. Yeah. You've got beautiful legs because I've seen the photos.

You've got an incredible pair of legs.

When you look at those legs, what do you think? I call them getaway sticks back in those days. Roger is quoting my, my college stats. Ten goals. Twelve assists.

“The only thing that I do want to say in.”

Soccer's defense. That was over 20 years. That's as long as the world cup is now. It took me a while to accumulate those stats is what I'm saying. And you're going to know when back in the day when we all started doing this,

talking about football in America. And we think about guess. Like it was you. It was like. I wrote is me and Kyle wrote Junior.

Yeah. That was it. Me and Ricky Davis. Yeah. And moochie Mironic.

And and that was about the end of it. I'm Premier Levy.

And yeah, we can never get right.

But you were. You were like an early early early, early, lover of the game in a little seriousness. I loved it. I was raised in a town where it was very much.

Italian immigrants, Polish immigrant.

And you know, that was the thing. We had, you know, there's a famous bridge. Where I grew up in Trenton called what the world. What Trenton makes the world takes. Well, take.

Tariq, didn't you do you research on this? Guys, I'm trying to look at Rogers Rogers. Rogers running circles around us right now. Well, I'm just thinking of Rogers making up American sounding names. No, he is.

Can I tell you something? He is nailing. He is clearly gone on some kind of William and Mary soccer. Wikipedia page. What are you talking about?

This is, this is like, when you, when you meet Pelé, when you meet Maradona, you don't have to research him. You know, because you've lived it and watching you under Al Al. But I want to when you do look at those photos because the shorts were short. The thighs were popping.

They were. They were popping. It was a different style back then. I know, but it was very, I mean, I don't know if you can pop it up on this podcast. It might not be safe for work.

But I look at them and I think caught that. It's beautiful. That is incredibly American. They were solid. I also think my death comes for a soul.

Like we're all going to die. Oh, my brother. Let me tell you something. When I look at those pictures and I look at myself now,

“I think, why did I, why do I sleep in a meat dehydrator?”

That's such a mistake. That was such a mistake on, on my part. Turing, he's not even. It is true. He's not doing, you know, research.

He probably remembers our famous match against Longwood. Don't get me snow at the 1982. And the coach LL, but. And coach, and coach. He knows the three names, Turing.

You're like bleeding from your mouth. You're like, coach, pull me back in. How do you think, when, when you think back to those matches? Do you believe American football soccer has come a long way. Turing, as you watch the American team play.

Do you see advances in our style of play? I, I find it fascinating.

I remember the days when our best player was always the keeper.

Whether it's Brad, Fred, or whether it's Tony Miela. Uh, and now we're playing an attacking form of soccer to Rick. Is, is it hard to see this from the Americans? Do you fear us now? Are you, are you fearful of our squad?

Do you fear us now? The Germans will fear. In a word, no, but it is exciting. It is exciting to see. It is great.

How about, how about in two words? No, and not really.

“Look, I think, I think well cups are great when the hosts are doing well.”

And you've got here. You've got the U.S. Mexico and Canada. And they've all kind of shown up. And I've got an apology to make because on our podcast and on the daily before the tournament.

I said, this is not a good football team. And there is a huge amount of egg on this face right now because they really showed up at the time it counted as well. We, you know, we were playing possum in all the qualifying. We weren't showing ourselves to be who we truly are. Well, um, and I'm, I'm potch his into it.

Rod, the coach. Yes. Who seemed to be trying to get another job. Many jobs all the time while he was the U.S. manager. He was trying to sort of get a European team I felt like what do we call it?

A common get me plea. That's right.

And now, I think after that second game, we're going to Australia.

He showed a level of emotion that I'd not seen with him and this U.S. team. You was really, really into it. He's talking about the coach. For those of us, you know, our podcast is generally dealing with nuclear negotiations through Iran. So I just want to explain about he's referring to the famed coach of the American squad,

uh, an Argentine legend. Put your team up. Who on local news across America, they call him. Isn't there's Mauricio, put your team up. They call him coach, coach, coach, coach is going through many emotions.

He didn't want to leave. Little light recently. Wanted to join the earth and police department when you saw they have. They have Tesla side for trucks. But, um, we can drive one of these.

Yes, they're going side. But, um, he's having an extreme makeover himself. He's at start to dress in like 1980s. Game, picture, cool. He's grown his hair out like, like, Russell Crowe.

And he's having the time of his life. We're all having the time of our life.

“Which I think is what football is about.”

Look, this U.S. team has not been very good. Our women's team kicks ass takes names. There's a dream team. Our men's team. There's been, and new listeners who are like, why is that?

English guy saying, wait, I love America like Kenny Powers. Love America. Yes. And we embrace you, by the way. That's not true.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

You can't do it. But I won't have you saying nice things about me on this show. The, the, um, the men's team have been like a dream on team.

And we've always wanted them to be great.

They've won one knockout game in our entire history.

And if you've not followed, suddenly in this world cup,

they're playing a brilliant, swaggering book in there and football. It'll be it about the greatest opponent so far. It is. It's like watching Matthew McConaughey. I was trying to work out.

“What is it like this shot this surprise this wonder?”

It's like watching McConaughey just rom comment, phone it in. Maybe I'll do Texas change or massacre. Right. And then suddenly like saw that.

You know what? There's an inner greatness. The lies were there. That inspires God. Yeah.

This is all about a spoiler clip. John Stewart. Can I tell you something? I looked at that when I saw the Americans play. I thought to myself the same thing.

This is a team. This is all Dallas boys. Uh, losing weight to portray in AIDS patients. And aren't they doing it supremely well? We are the kings of own goals right now.

I mean, the, the one thing I would say this. Look, you know,

American football is always, and I'm hearing people all over say,

"Oh my God, they took Paraguay and Australia. Can we win this whole thing?" And I would like to say right now for the record. No. We cannot.

But why would you say that, John? That's rational. And sports or fandom is purely ridiculous and emotional. I'll tell you, I was in Seattle where that game was. We did a live show before the thing.

We're Martian Lynch. Oh, I love Martian Lynch. And there were 5,000 people there. They were out of their mind. They come from all over America.

They brought their kids. They were making memories. They're March to the Match. It was like, if you've watched a movie called Ferris Bueller, you'll remember like the German day parade.

It felt like just a crazy, abullient, cacophony. It felt like mardi grower. But like football seemed. And all the matters.

“Ultimately, I think about all of this in this very dark world of ours.”

People are having release, sense of connection, sense of memory, making, sense of hilarity. And yeah, I think the memory to read will know this better. And I think what is the, what is the, the percentage chance of America winning?

It's like 2.94% letting yourself believe. It's 100%. There's a whole point. That's exactly the percentage I know, Roch. By the way, it's the same percentage Iran had with us in the war.

And they won. So like, maybe we're going in the wrong direction here. Maybe we can pull this off. Hope springs eternal. But the thing about.

Thank you, Terry. These, these tournaments. It's the journey. It's fantastic. This is my favorite part to be honest with the World Cup.

Right, the start when, when everyone arrives. Particularly these fans from God knows where all over the place. And it's an expanded field. Let's also be fair. It is now 48 teams.

So it is a messier tournament than we've ever seen. And you're finding those teams that have, you know, a Cape Verde or something like that where hope springs eternal. But it is a, it is a larger field than we're accustomed to watching. Yeah, this is, this is to give you a sense of the scale of this.

There were 64 matches for the entire tournament in Qatar four years ago. Well, three and a half years ago because it was in winter.

You need 72 matches just to get through this first group stage.

So more than Qatar, just to get into the knockout. So we're kind of drowning in these well cup matches. It's an old ultra marathon that we're all getting run as nipple. Roger, do you enjoy the expanded format? Do you enjoy the messiness of it?

You know, and let's be fair. Also, you're asking me how much shaping is. Yeah, I've got a shaving. How is your shaving? It's 48 teams.

“There's only, I believe, 60 teams in the entire world.”

So we're getting close to just everybody being in the world. Yeah, William and Mary, William and Mary is 61. You will be getting, I promise you. The crazy part of this is everyone coming in was like, you know, Cape Verde this tiny team.

You know, Curacao this tiny team of 120. They're going to get absolutely obliterated. It's going to be an embarrassment. They've been bloody good. They've been pop what you could say.

Part of the story of this woke up. Cape Verde this tiny archipelago of islands off the west coast of Africa. 600 miles west of Senegal. I know all this now.

I didn't know it six days ago. Until they took the field against Spain, the World Cup favourites, and held them at arms length with a goalkeeper, who was stunning a 40-year-old journey manobody, Virginia.

Helmed them at bay, made save after save, cried at the end because his mother was not able to enter because she couldn't get a visa. He came on our show that afternoon and told his story beautifully, powerfully, nobly humbly.

He immediately, but at the beginning of the day, had 20-0 in town. This is like a double-a baseball player. America, if you're listening. He, by the end of the beginning of the day, had like 20-0 in

By the end of the day, yeah, 10 million, he now has 15.7.

“He has more followers on Instagram now than Wemby,”

and my homes combined. He has more followers than the Pope. This is what the World Cup can do.

People have always entered the World Cup to become influencers.

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“Terry, what's been your favorite underdog story of this?”

Has it been Cape Verde? Has it been Kurosau? Who's- what's been your favorite underdog story of this world? Cups so far. I think it's hard to look beyond the story. What did you talk about, Virginia?

But Kurosau is well, getting a point off Ecuador. Stunning. You know, you say these names Ecuador, Kurosau. Ecuador is a big footballing nation. They were very good in qualifying in South America.

And again, one of my predictions which haven't come true just yet, they're still time that Ecuador will go deep in this tournament. They are stacked with great players who play at top European teams. And you have this team from Kurosau. But the other kind of story for me, I think, is the story of us of people.

And these teams are populated by the diaspora as well. As a member of a diaspora myself, my family is from India. I'm English. Your kids are seeing representations of themselves in all of these countries. And my love for the World Cup goes, and all of us probably, Roger,

your first one, you know, when I was a boy, the World Cup every four years,

the scarcity of this thing. These are moments of your life. You can date yourself. You can place yourself in all of these moments. Now, now, there's going to be children somewhere who are learning about Kurosau.

For learning a Roger, a child, a man child. It's learning about Kverde. And, you know, I got a call from a friend of mine in Mexico and Argentina. And his son is all over the Democratic Republic of Congo. That is the project he's decided to do at school.

That's amazing. And he said, "Call him, please call him and he'll tell you all about them." And I don't think there's anything like it. I genuinely don't think, just that there's nothing like the Football World Cup. Not the Olympics, not anything that we've been able to do up until now.

That can match the picture of this. And I'm just seeing these pictures, like obviously the Scots in Boston. Drinking as dry, leaving the Koreans in Mexico City. It, like, all of it is just... The Japanese cleaning up the stadiums, everybody's learning.

It's beautiful for Americans because, and it's hard for Americans to understand the importance of the world up around the world, because it just hasn't really... It's not our national sport of those rising, certainly, in popularity. But we, generally, for Americans, we learn geography by whoever we're bombing. You know, we now we know where Kabul is and to rock, you know.

The war is God's way of teaching Americans geography. But the world embraces a different form of community in World Cup. It's about that competition, but also interaction. And Roger, that's isn't that what makes this the most magical of times. Because the countries travel with them.

I mean, I think that it's been very profound in our context.

What to read said is true that it's once every four years. It does make life. I feel I wrote a book about it. We are the World Cup about, I can tell my life alternately by World Cup to World Cup. It is the spine of my life that most profound memory making is that's for me.

And millions and millions of human beings around the world. What we're experiencing in the here and there is when we feel most alive. Because the world's coming together, human beings and the conditions of great pressure are defining themselves revealing themselves in. In light as epic Greek heroes, it with a script acted out live.

“But this World Cup does have that added dimension that I think is incredibly profound.”

Which is, well, two things for me, the story of my life, John, is America falling in love with global football. 1994, the Last Men's World Cup was here. It was meant to turn us overnight from, like, Captain Kirk and space to find our friend here to a proper football loving nation. It wasn't overnight. It's taken time. But it was profound that that 94 World Cup in America was profound in how it changed.

And the fact that we went and went into the knockout round was a big deal for us. In Stonewall, Stenim, it was beautiful. But before that before that, before that, before that World Cup. I remember both that there was a study taken about favorite sports in America.

And soccer was 67, track to pulling was 66, the economist has just done a study that found that that soccer is now America's third favorite sport.

I was just on a road show and he kept being like, "When does this soccer thing going to take off?" I was like, "Aroad, it's third now." He'd be like, "Well, what is baseball?" I'd be like, "Oh, I've got some bad news for you, man." It's number four now. But the other side of that is the football world falling in love with America and two things are very profound.

Like watching Lawrence Kansas, who can it's heart to the Algerian team. There's just levels to that, of openness and revealing yourself, your heart, your soul to the world and the world. Embracing us back and I will say in this context, it feels so good. It feels so good and needed and the world fully in love with things we take for granted.

Granted, but I've always looked at as an outsider who's been embraced by buckies when you do go to a buckies.

It is a life-changing and waffle house, rather than cover short, lemon pepper wet, or to watch the weather. We take these things, we take getting in a fist fight at 3am over poached eggs for granted.

“Yeah, what would we fight for freedom for if not that man's mother and covered it up?”

But the other point is very true and I want to be clear. The embrace of football fans Scottish fans, I watched that with an equal marvel, John. When we were growing up in 1978, we'll have 90, 90 even. You know, the English fans were put on an island off Italy so that the police could contain them. Because football fandom was far more about a zero-sum game based on hate.

I mean, people went to the games. Yeah, to watch the Scottish fans to watch the Norwegian fans to watch the fans embrace each other. It's beautiful, it's needed, it's an open, it's a world where the boundaries of poor rest, the love, it's the world cup of love. It's fleeting, I want to be clear, I'm under no illusion. No question.

But it's deeply profound. We had Diego Luna, the actor on our show the other day. And he was talking with a marvel about watching the Mexican fans just fall in love, this fusion of Mexican and South Korean fans. And he's like, what's happened to us? We used to, you know, prop fans used to just fire rockets at the opposing teams hotel at 3am and the morning.

Now we're just embracing them, holding them, hugging them, I like the old way. But the new way is we need the new way.

“You know why that is, too, and I think it's this, and Tarek maybe you can speak to this.”

I think there is a thirst in the world, the governments are so at odds with each other. The rise of this kind of autocratic nationalism. There is an air of tension and sort of imminent catastrophe. And it's a reminder that people are not their governments. That the people are actually, they connect on levels of humanity and empathy.

And this game, if it does anything, is bring that to the fore. Yeah, I was just going to say that. As my sort of trip around the US and I've been in Tijuana as well with the Iranian team because they've been kind of exiled in Tijuana.

And just on that first, the way the Mexicans and the Tijuana have taken to the Iranian national football team.

But then people take over.

Every day in the morning and at 4pm when the teams are going to go and train, these people line up at the gates. These Mexican guys appear to celebrate this, this Iranian team. And then some of the Iranian diaspora come across from southern California to meet these guys. And it makes everybody feel warm and special in this in this moment. And then looking at the US itself.

I was worried. I'll be honest with you. I was worried about this world cup. I was also worried about myself like from I'm based in England. I look like this. I was going to come over and I thought, yeah, this is going to be interesting. What will immigration that the airport be like when I been in that room that I sometimes have to go in. Or when I get sent, but all of these things because this is the kind of vibe.

It's it's the moment in this country. Yeah, and from the outside as well, like I've covered a lot of world cups and the the thing with Qatar and Russia. These were countries that were desperately trying to tell you that whatever you're reading about us. We're not like that even if they might be like that. It was like let's put the best possible facade on if it is that.

And make everyone feel more welcome than they could possibly have imagined. But the posture of the, I guess the US government to the world has been very different to the past. I, we're kind of closed. The world cup is happening in a country that kind of doesn't like the world right now. So this is going to be or the reverse the world doesn't particularly like us right now. Yeah, like we do you want these hold the hordes of these foreigners coming in and do the foreigners feel comfortable coming in.

So it was a really, really odd sensation before. And you've just nailed it as well. Like people have taken over. It isn't a government event.

But it's not always the, the contradiction of sport and Roger, you know, look, it's the beautiful game.

And yet it's run by maybe the ugliest bureaucracy. You know, FIFA is in 2015. These guys are, you know, there's an enormous scandal of bribery. Set, bladder, you know, FIFA officials from everywhere are going to jail. It's very clear that Russia and Qatar and who knows about the United States bought their world cups move people around.

“Is it the frustration Roger sometimes of a game you love so much?”

A game that is so unifying that is so easily at times corrupted by the ruling body that runs the sport and the countries that try and dominate. And how do we separate that out? I don't know if we do. It's like cognitive dissonance. I mean, when you were talking about the emotionless amount of this experience and the people taking over, you could say that the same thing with the next John.

And you were, wait, don't hate, watch yourself. You were there, man. You were there. John's you was there. Leaves from William and Mary. In the streets, baby. I was in the streets.

I mean, you watched that. You watched side tour. You watched all of that. And the human ecstasy and the memory making and the profound cross-generational wonder that that's galvanized.

“You know, no one's stopping in that moment and blah, what do you think about the illness?”

What do you think about, you know, the family that are running it and what they're doing. It's just like, I mean, you know what you feel. And everyone's their story that they're not here to, in those moments, you're like, my dad is not here to see this. I wish my dad was here, you know, my friend. You know, I've great friends who died very young, huge nick fans.

You know, and they have their friends, war jerseys that they've given them right in the day when they were kids. You know, football is both deeply rational and hyper, hyper, hyper-emotional. And this is the pattern look at Tareek. We were in Brazil together in the run-up to that World Cup. And it was doom and gloom catastrophizing about the, we were there for the social unrest.

The year be you were held at knife point, you know, it felt like don't. That was about to rain. Were you really Terry? I had not, not during the tournament, but yeah, I had my, my Brazil experience. Yeah, yeah, I was, I was, I was mud in Lagova.

I wish you young men well, whatever you're doing.

I mean, that's ultimately it football.

More than any sport, it's tremendous power is that it holds a mirror up to the world that surrounds it.

“That's honestly the thing I've always loved.”

And the World Cup more than anything John is when two teams take the field. Their nation's histories, their nation's cultures, their nation's politics. Take the field of life.

But like there's levels to this.

“And as a kid, the levels were which profound and remarkable, magical.”

Even when they weren't in England, Argentina in the shadow of the folk and wars. Germany against France, you know, when France was still recovering from its post-war identity. All kinds of students and narratives that had heft. The world just got so much darker. And so the stories have gotten darker.

It's still a mirror. We may not like the image of ourselves that we're seeing of the, you know, the complexity of the knee. I mean, how the Iranian football is it? And the teams reflect it. Yeah. How it France doesn't exist as a world power right now without their story of colonialism because those French players.

And there is always that tension of who is actually French or who is actually of that country.

And the players, not necessarily feeling the love from the people that, you know, it's, it really is deep. And it will happen again and again, and that's the sad truth of this. I remember Messer Ozil, the German player won the World Cup. Great. Great attacking midfield player. And he had this quote. He's from a Turkish background. And he said, I'm German when we win, but I'm Turkish when we lose.

Right.

“And I think he nailed it. And to your point about how can you, how can you separate these things about FIFA and the World Cup and all of this thing?”

I have a lot of people asking me, given what I write about is, is often the kind of dark crevices and the naughty corners of the game. And so, well, how do you, how do you still enjoy the World Cup? And I don't just enjoy. I absolutely love this thing. I do. It's a really simple answer. It's ours. It's not this. Like the World Cup is, is everybody's, it's just got this FIFA logo on the thing.

But it is this moment in time where we all own this thing and we all have the right to enjoy it. Whether you can afford a ticket or not, you just have to go out in the streets. But those people in Lawrence, Kansas, they will have the best World Cup experience imaginable. They might not ever set foot in a football stadium. Right.

And this should be happening all over the place, also in homes all around the world. There'll be kids staying up, allowed to stay up, very late in the middle of the night. And they'll be talking about it. But the tournament is everybody's. Hey, listen to me. I know a lot of you folks out there.

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“I want to ask you guys, because it is, how did Roger was talking about the Nixon?”

And I can remember how the Nixon printed on me when I was six years old, seven years old. How were you imprinted?

Where did your first sort of memories of joy and love and family and community and soccer come together?

To where you got started with you and then Roger? For me, it was everything. So you wake up, you have a ball in your hand, you're at school and you're just trying to get out of that class and then play.

I still remember it. It's a Granny Memories of that World Cup in '86, which was in Mexico.

“And remember being taken to an uncle's house when you're Asian.”

An uncle's house means a lot of people. And there was nearerware where who's got the biggest TV and there's only one TV. Like these days, that's the other thing, right? Right.

This is the second screening of multi-screening.

It's kind of taken away something and headphones and all of these things, where people aren't as kind of... You're almost forced to watch together, whether you like it or not, you might not. Right. This is pre-cable with the little antennas that stick up and move around and the TV is wider than it is tall and, you know, deeper than it is wide. And you've got this guy who is both a hero and a villain in Diego Maradona.

Yes. This complete one-off and what he did to England in '86. I just don't think there'll be two moments like this. You can't script this stuff, where he has jumped into the air and hand of God at the open. Yes.

They called it the head of God. It was really just the hand. There's plenty of note. It was brilliant though, by the way. He's not only did it to read.

He then, in the post-match interview, they said, "Did you handle the ball?" And he said, "It was a little bit." The head of Diego, a little bit, the hand of God. That's genius. He was a genius because the next thing he did just leaves you slack towards.

“Are you talking about the goal where he basically takes it?”

He ran from the halfway line. I was crazy. In this beautiful sunlight in this stadium. And it's just magical. So the next day, guess who we're all calling ourselves.

We're all Maradona in the playground. Either we're trying to do a hand of God. Or you're going through everybody. We're trying to do this. Yeah.

I absolutely fell in love with this tournament, with these people, with this game. All of this. And it endeavours despite everything to be honest. And it has levels where it connects. Maradona.

And now we watch Argentina today. And Messi. Beautiful. Is touched by the hand of God. Here's a man who's 39 years old.

He's played is obviously one of the most prolific scores that the game has ever seen.

He's can't be more than five, five, like Maradona has this incredible sense of the goal.

And has put away five goals in two games. He scored every goal for Argentina in the run of play. We've ever run the penalty kick that he was given. He misses. We've ever breaking into a run.

It's just might. It's like the closest we will ever get to watching someone with Jedi powers. Just mind meld. It's really. He's the figure more than any that Maradona. He's bigger in America than the game of football itself.

Well, the Maradona thing was amazing because the foreclans war came before it. So this was a this he didn't just do it. He did it in the context of geopolitical chaos.

“And I think a lot about it like he cheated.”

Punch the ball in listeners. You're not allowed to use your hands. And then minute later, when we're all held in agony, he cheated, he cheated. He'd essentially the equivalent of a kick off return through the whole team. A whole hero's eviscerated all of them afterwards. One was interviewed said, "Why didn't you try and kick him?"

He said, "We did. He was just that first."

He looked like he was moving at double speed. I mean, if you get a chance to go on on youtuber wherever to find the goal, it's remarkable. And the commentator, the Argentinian commentator find his translation. He was cosmic kitey screams as he does it. It's beautiful. I went outside as a kid. I just seen my heroes amusculated.

And I just got so angry. Maradona could have done the second goal whenever he wanted. He wanted to cheat us. He wanted the show us. I can air for you this way. And now I'm going to air for you that way.

And I can do both because you are my whatever insert word there. And I went outside, 50-year-old me in agony. My heroes have been eviscerated. And I took my football soccer ball and just drew it. I wrote about this in my book.

I drew it right to the front window of my house in agony. And my dad, who was quick to anger himself, just looked at me as the glass tinkled down. And he goes, "I understand, Raj. I understand." Now I have on my wall in my office.

I have that frame and ball signed by Maradona because I'm grateful I saw it. I felt, and this is the point, John. Ultimately, I'm dead inside, man. The world has killed me.

I am confused and lost and unmoored. But when I feel these things, when I see messy, do what he did yesterday, I know. I'm feeling things that most people feel in real life,

And I'm feeling it with millions of other people. We are paying witness. This is your conduit back to the living. In many relationships. I'm like Matthew McConaughey behind the bookshales, man.

You're going through the whole McConaughey over here. McConaughey? Yes. You know, some people have the Bible. And I think McConaughey's every single human emotion.

I'd love, like, the room comes, man. How did you come to it, though, Roger? How did your 15 in the 86 World Cup?

When did you first, like, with Terry?

When did it first imprint itself upon you that this was something special that was going to be in your life? Come on. I'm from Liverpool.

I'm from Liverpool. Liverpool football is like Indiana high school basketball, Texas high school football. It's like Oliver has made me a Liverpool fan, by the way. Oh, John.

That's what he did. That's what he did. She'll be there. Listen, I made him a match fan. He made me a Liverpool fan.

Is this true? This is true.

“If you're a Metz fan, John, you should be an avatar.”

I don't want to tell anyone how to live their life. But you like pay. You like joy that's fleeting. You like hope.

You like doomed hope. You're like, oh, my God. Do you miss the operative word there? Yeah, so come on, man. Come with me.

On this journey to misery. Come with me, my friend. In the morning. Take my hand. I've got to talk to you after about this, John.

This is not, this is not the way. But we'll pick that up. Look. So it was in Liverpool football music. I like air water fireman.

So they're just there. My dad chose Everton when he was a kid. He often, we often used to say, would we be different if we were Liverpool fans? And we won things. He'd be like, we'd be unbearable.

We wouldn't appreciate things. We wouldn't appreciate. We have to not win in. He wouldn't call it losing. He'd be sometimes not winning is important.

And he'd say, when you do, he can't something joyous. You just have to dance like you own kids wedding.

“I think the truth of life is in football or sports fandom.”

We've just lived it as a next fan man.

But 19, first World Cup, 1978, where I stopped my book.

Football in England when I grew up was muddy pitches, violent men, a backwater. You'd go with the games. I'd go with my dad. He was a decent man. You know, we'd routinely step over broken, bloody bodies on the way to the game.

You know, men just holding their hand out asking for help. Their teeth smashed out by a brick. Right, because they were the long scarf. Yeah, and you wouldn't even look at them. They'd be like, oh, yeah, there's just a game.

The brain would just be like, oh, there's another broken body. Yes, you'd step over. Excuse me. On the way to the game. Just just carnage everywhere.

You'd just see police horses, charging people with iron bars. You'd have seen men punch, police horses, cleanliness. Seeing it. Seeing a little. That's football.

Because the horses were rooting for Liverpool. I don't.

I never asked the horses.

But the wrong scarf. Yeah, the wrong yellow. Did you get it? That's what happened to it. That's my culture.

In 1978, the World Cup was in Argentina. We didn't have much life football on England either. It kicked off. And the first game we tuned in, huge stadium. Thousands and thousands from the bleachers.

As they, the Argentine, the sort of field. Defends through toilet roll, thousands and thousands of toilet rolls, cascaded down confetti, joyous. And my mother, very practical to around to us and goes, take a toilet roll to a football game.

But a ton to my dad. And I was like, oh my god, dad, football can be joyous. It can be fun. Who knew? And the dog, so he did this, Jonks.

I know you were dog man. Then you want darkness. And so what I gave to you is that 1978 World Cup. Yeah. Was run by the military hunter to try and.

They hired an American PR company. What was it? Burst and Burst and Mar Stella. Oh, that's right. They did a paper call.

What is true for products? So true for countries. And Henry Kissinger was hired to publicly proclaim. Now the world will see the true face of Argentina. Oh, right.

And even then watching this. That's the dissonance that you want man that you're talking. Even then, 1978, there was a human that people were being thrown out of planes at the same time as we were watching. Yeah, well, Argentina, when the will come.

“No, that's a remarkable juxtaposition there because I think you're absolutely right.”

And so in that same moment of the darkness. And I think this is kind of what we're talking about is you feel the hope. If we can just break through those hierarchies and structures that are holding everything back. And we get to suddenly touch each other's hearts during these things. And I know that sounds ridiculously overwrought and modeling,

but it really is true. And I tell you this, watching the nicks in the street, game five.

Going to those games with my son, being in the street with my son, with my wife, with my friends,

“feeling the streets, I'm telling you, it was, it was, I am not a religious man.”

This was spiritual. So funny, man. It's wild. John Stuart, I'm a horrible man. I moved to America in 1993, September two days over at London in Chicago.

Second night, breaking news, Michael Jordan's retiring. I felt terrible like I'd done it like guilty. And then I watched the ball season that Michael Jordan was ball season before he came back. And Tony Coocot, Scottie Pippin. The one here we saw it, we could win the cherry.

Yes, yes, you were like, yes.

And by the way, I didn't know, I've never watched my schedule before,

but I became mesmerized. This ball's team, they had a centre looped longer, who was from Australia. He and I arrived in Chicago. At the same time, neither of us really seemed to know what the hell we were doing there. And I loved them, and I watched them, and then we played the nicks in the epic battle between.

We felt like to me good and evil. Like I still have nightmares of John Stark's pubi mustache. Wait, who was who? For me, I'm going to be honest with you. I was popper balls, yeah.

And I watched John Stark's destroyer's pubi mustache. And after three nights a year, I will wake up in a cold sweat. Like, just John Stark's like a Cheshire cat, just a mustache's life. And I let, oh my god, that was an anti-mason.

I'm not an athlete, he was, ok, he turned the Benedict Arnold of basketball.

That was in the days of the Barut, they were losers. Yes, and so they beat the, it was, we were valiant, but you beat the crap out of us. And I hated that. I really, really, really hated the nicks. I'll get to my point here.

I'm a horrible person. I carry that hate in my heart. The older I get, in my kids, I'm a New York person now, despite my accident.

“The older I get, the more I'm just like, you know what?”

Whatever gives you how my kids are all huge nicks fans. It's not my worst parents in I can't stand it. It's really, it's really upset me. It's really upset me. It's a really dark and my wife can't understand it.

But it really upsets me.

But even I, John, this is my point watching them, you know, feel that joy.

Feel that connection, feel that memory making, feel that sense that everything is possible. It's not kids listening to this and it's not everything isn't possible. But I even made with my dark heart. I'm so happy for you. But once every 53 years, something like that is possible.

I'm happy for you, John. To recap, you ever had that in your rooting life. Have you ever had that feeling of deprivation? And the deprivation suddenly going to the mountaintop. And feeling that, you know, the distance between the two making it sweeter like that.

What's been your history as a fan? Is it a big break? I'm kind of a fan of the sport. I'd say these days rather than... You want to decide?

I'm not looking. But what I'd say, I live recently. I just had this magical experience as well. I want to talk about, like, New York and London have both had these moments. A few weeks apart.

And I was watching what's happening in New York from a distance. I'm not a basket ball guy, a New York guy, or a next guy. But it felt very familiar watching this. I live in North London where Arsenal played. Go on, you gunna.

And I must say, whichever neighborhood it is. And it doesn't matter which country I was an Argentina recently reporting as well. Where you have a lot of neighborhood teams. When the neighborhood team is doing well, or something is up, it's in the air. There's just a different little sparkle, a little magic.

People are looking each other in the eye. Smiling. Might don't have to say, maybe a little nod. Then Arsenal hadn't won the league in 22 years. And they're not an Everton, sorry, Roger.

They are one of the bigger teams in World Football. There's still 22 years as generations of people who haven't seen this team lift the premier league title. And they did. And the parade in our little corner of...

“It was honestly one of the most magical afternoons of my life to be honest.”

I'm not a fan of Arsenal as well. This is the point. Joy is infectious, man. Joy is infectious. It was amazing. More than ever we need that joy theory.

We need this stuff. We do need this stuff. And the thing that I just marveled at was I'm seeing like women in hijabs.

There's a guy with a pint.

“A woman with a hijab and they're singing the same songs.”

The streets were packed. Every type of person imaginable was their communing in this one spot. This one day when the number 19 was stopped, going down black stock road and people pouring on the bus driver was infected with this joy.

Yeah. Not like guys. I'm trying it. I'm on my route here. What you doing?

Get on board. And a party on the bus. Full of everyone. It's the bus. But not just there.

Not just there to read you.

It was a cross African man. A cross Asian. You're so massive, massive.

“It's only, but I think the point and the next.”

We need the joy more than ever, man. This is why though, the FIFA Peace Prize is so meaningful. You know, people look forward to that FIFA Peace Prize being given out every year because of what soccer football brings to the world. Wake up.

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“How do we turn off the part of our brain that gets upset about sportwashing?”

Or these terrible regimes that are using our joy, our feeling, our empathy against us to ease their own guilt burden, reputation, FIFA, peace price. You know, how do we? I get angry at myself for not being able to separate.

I don't think I don't think we should be annoyed. And I think we should be able to carry both thoughts. And it's really, it's really important to hold these guys to account. I mean, well, that's what you do. I mean, Terry, that you do better than anybody.

I mean, that's so much of what you're reporting is. Well, it's because it's really important. Because we've just spent the last 48 minutes or I could see the count down. So about that time. Talk about how great how great this this this sport is this this this thing humanity

is produced is and the fact that these guys are able to. I don't want to use the word govern, but kind of take it hostage in a way. Is something that should not be allowed to pass. There are good people in football. But the lack of accountability over the most popular human pastime.

This thing that stirs all these emotions. The things that bring all of these politicians or dictators and governments to want to like. cleave it towards themselves. Right.

It's something that is super important. But is anyone, there's no, there's zero accountability on over these people. Well, the 2015 really was a moment of accountability. I mean, even for someone like Michelle Platini, who is, you know, a legend. A friend, a player and a legend being held to account.

Absolutely. You know, you talked about this. That was a huge moment.

You're seeing, you're seeing the most powerful football executives being

Yanked out of beds at 6 a.m. in a luxury Swiss hotel. Obviously.

Perp walked, taken to New York.

And we have the biggest scandal in sports. And here we are 10 years later.

“And the film that I think of every time when I think of FIFA is terminated to.”

The kind of that that that that that villain who couldn't be killed. The other the other terminator. T 1,000, I think he was called where he would just reformulate into exactly the same. Raj does, Raj doesn't know that if it becomes a he's not in it. If but got a he's not in it. He doesn't know what's happening.

If it's not on the kind of he film, I'm not interested. You know, I'm trying to I'd be by the way, John, I am sitting here trying to think which McConaughey film shows you how to have cognitive distance. But hold two truths to be evident at the same time. And I'm going to say all of the even the wrong comes.

They that's probably true. They're probably true. But Terry now.

So like you say 10 years later, they've dropped the investigations into FIFA.

They've stopped and, you know, right now the cozy relationship between FIFA and Trump. The art department of justice has dropped all investigations. Well, I was thinking about this and looking at when Trump came in a couple of things happened. I remember being a conference and seeing the news saying the the foreign corrupt

Prats is that isn't something the US care about. So foreign corruption. Yeah, we're not went on into this anymore. Just to just to read that headline was was pretty stuck. Well, he also made an announcement that it was OK if companies in America brought

America, bribe foreign officials for business. I mean, explicitly saying, hey, man, that's just how things are done.

“So if you need to bribe people, knock yourself out.”

Yeah, it's like a level. The others are doing it.

So we're going to be left behind if we don't do this.

And then the other thing they said is like kind of this type of white collar crime is not a priority for for the DOJ. And what is the point of these organizations? So what does the point of the DOJ if you do not want to tackle? I think revenge.

I think the point of the DOJ. If I'm being clear, I think it's revenge. So great for those guys. Yeah, it's exactly. And then you have, for me, I've kind of just been the backdrop of my career,

basically. And you see all of these people have been arrested and taken away. And the new group have come in. And slowly. And then very quickly, they realise.

You know, you're like, oh, if I cross this line here, will anyone notice? No one has. Right. And then that line gets so far away from where you've started. That it is a free reign.

There were things bought in like term limits. They were like, yeah, we're going to have to have good governance models, term limits. All of these guys are bashing through their term limits. Term limits, you know, this is, this is fantastic. We're just honorable people.

Why do we need term limits? You can trust us. And then the model isn't to cater to fans like Roger or yourself or the teams or their players. FIFA is beholden to 211 Gianni and Fantinos. Other football presidents.

And what do you do? What you give them? You give them gifts? Right. You give them peace price.

His to, to Trump are also to the football, because you want to who's going to change. Why is football not asking for change? Because I'll give you an example. Just now that the day after the opening game in Mexico City, where all of the football world were invited. So presidents and that the senior hierarchies of each of these national federations come to Mexico City.

Stay in a lovely hotel and come to the opening game of the World Cup. And you think, okay, that's, that's great. But that's not all you get. Then get on a plane. We're going to fly you to Miami.

Five days at the Ritz Carlton in Miami. Enjoy guys. And guess what? Gianni and Fantino is going to for reelection next year. Just remember that while you're here.

Who supplied all of this? Wow. And it rolls on and it rolls on and on. But we have more uncontested elections in football. And then think about your worst dictatorship.

We just don't have a conversation, a debate, all of these things. Like my phone might have a bunch of WhatsApp from upset football executives.

“And I always say, well, why are you telling me this?”

Why don't you just say it? Because they're all enjoying themselves. $300,000 a year for three Zoom meetings. It's not bad. I'm mad, but I don't want to stop the gravy train.

That's so much gravy on that train. The tracks are so sleek right now. Look, I hate to draw the analogy, but it's not that different from the United States Congress

I mean, it's a group of people who are no longer answerable to the constituents that they purportedly represent. And they're sort of enjoying the separate world that they've created. It's a kind of impenetrable bubble.

“And I wonder, Roger, do you ever, you know, as you're going around this world?”

How do they view you? Because you're such an asset to, especially, or not just around the world, but in America, to the fan? You're bringing this game and really evangelizing, right? And so I imagine they view you as an asset, but I also think they probably know they can't control you. So how do they view your platform and what you bring?

Who's the angel? FIFA, the people that control the head of Qatar, Putin. I mean, you'll have to go, I mean, God, Putin is allowed this good. Very active on the men in blazes, this good. What's his username?

Not Vlad 3237. Vlad a daddy. It's a Vlad a daddy. Yeah.

Yeah, ultimately, what's reached lay there is the cognitive dissonance.

It is a, how do you get a bed in the morning, John Stuart? How do you function in the morning, how do you do anything? It's hard, and the world is complicated. I think about, and how from the very beginning, we start off as one podcast. We've grown this thing into the whole network that has women's platform,

has a Hispanic platform, very most three different communities. So what I think about is nourishing them, I think about what the game brings to them, what, watching together brings to people's life. I think it's, you know, John, John Oliver comes on our show every year. It's my favorite moment in the year, because he's,

I think about this a lot, work on this a lot, and he just kind of breezes in, and just does it so much better than I ever could. We've found better than the other. And then, by the way, you don't pay him for that, right? I mean, that's not a, that's not a paid appearance.

Oliver, Oliver demands huge, huge yes. He's a private place when I was a look at him in the arms. He's like that with us, same thing. Yeah, no, he's different. He's different.

He comes on because he just loves football. Man, loves Liverpool, football, football, but do not go that way, John Stuart. But every year, you know, at the end of the interview, I ask him, you know, ultimately there's an old cliche in football, which has been warmed up a lot by a lot of different people.

Football is the most important, least important thing.

And I always do wonder whether there's a moment in time, whether being a football fan, because I do, I think about fandom. I think about experiences. I think about memories.

“I think about the shandard football for me has become more important,”

the more challenging everything becomes, because it is, in all seriousness, where even fleeting joy, fleeting sense of deep profound connectivity, a lot of the good stuff can occur. And I do always ask him, I'm like, there is a point where it becomes almost like a,

like with fiddling, well, well, room is burning by watching football. And he, I know, and I will say he's like, no one ever talks about whether the neighborhood was a really good fiddler. He's very, very good.

I don't think it's bread and circuses at always.

I don't think it's necessarily government's ways of distracting us while they do the dirty work of what they do. I think it's actually a way of people acting out community rather than distraction that it's reminding us that those people are fleeting. You know, Jesse Owens in the Munich Olympic,

you know, when he showed Hitler what was what? You know, these are the kinds of things. I've taken a very different view of it. I agree with you, Roger. Like, there's a certain party where you feel like,

oh, this shit just doesn't matter. It's just stupid. But think about Lawrence Kansas. Think about how people are responding to learning about different cultures for the very first time.

It is unifying and grounding in a really important, in a really important way. And the more we, the more we resist those evil forces, co-opting that beauty. That's that's part of the struggle. I know this sounds ridiculous.

I know I am sounding ridiculous. I couldn't agree, I want to be clear. I think it's become more important.

“I think it's more important than ever, sustain in this community.”

Not take it.

Do not take a second of watching football together for granted.

I mean, it is, it's become the most powerful thing this conversation

with fans, the sense of feelings, these sense of active memory making. So that's kind of how I approach it. I don't send, I don't spend the second job thinking about what people think about me or how I send. It's like, there's no good energy that comes out of that, man.

So I'm just trying to focus on, I'm trying to do good things for really good people puts the sense of positivity, a sense of joy, a sense of active memory. There's so many great things that we're watching.

“The Virginia story that I'll keep, it's tenacity is probably the greatest human value I think.”

Resilience, yes, yes. So these are the things that I spend a lot of time thinking about. A lot of time trying to articulate, a lot of time trying to story tell. And that's how I approach all of this. You know, I was at this game between Jordan and Algeria yesterday here in the Bay Area,

where this prison cell is. And yeah, that looks like actually a motel three. I don't even think that's a motel six. I've got talking to these Jordanian fans outside the teams hotel there. And they said, you know, we are all over America.

It's such a big country. We are everywhere. And they came from Deerborn, from New Jersey, from other parts of California.

And they said, you know, we've never had a moment ever where we've all been able to come together.

This qualification for the World Cup has bought all of these disparate Jordanians. And this is just one example. There'll be 47 other examples of this. It's a focus for the diaspora. To San Jose outside the Hilton Hotel, where they're chanting and probably ruining some business man zoom meeting.

Oh, well, they're waiting for the team to come out. And I just thought it was just a very, very interesting and important moment to realise. What else can do that? I'm not sure there are many other things that can do this. No.

And here we are. And we've got a few more weeks of this to enjoy. So let's enjoy it.

“What is the final July 19th? Is that where we're talking?”

That's right. So how does this? So let's we're going to move into the knockout round. Let's play out a little bit of who's advancing where we're going to go and we'll wrap up with a little. Not necessarily speculation, but a little predictive. Is this very much like the kind of March madness that Americans are used to where you'll get a Cinderella here or there.

But ultimately, by the end, it's the blue bloods. It's going to be France. It's going to be Spain. It's going to be maybe Netherlands who's playing remarkably well. Don't know about Germany right now. Argentina.

How do you guys see this? Where's it going to go? What might be some of the surprises? The the on this truth is we don't know a lot. Every team's played twice. It's an enormous. It is an ultra marathon this thing. It's a massive bloated tournament. There's the Germans have a notion for, you don't want to peek too soon.

They always believe you want to be a tourney and man shaft.

“Like a tournament team that finds their rhythm, finds their way, finds it.”

What is the name they have a tournament? They have a name for everything, John. They really do. They just found out they have a name they think for internal monologue and anxiety. Co-cop of keynote, which is the cinema that plays inside your head.

Oh, wow. Which means you lost in your own one, which I love. A lot of my kind of hair in your head. They have a name for that. I'm a kind of fucking wild.

Yep. That's me trying to get out of the co-cop of keynote. Yes. It's to invite you into my kind of head. I understand. Ultimately teams will reveal themselves and knock out around their true self.

First game, you don't really know second game. Ultimately, they need to take it. You played and I'm going to lose you younger viewers that used to be a game called Punch Out. Where you'd be Mike Tyson fighting, you know better and better opponent. That's what the world cup is.

It's just a game of punch out until we get to the open water of the knockout round. We don't know. I'm rooting for US Cape Verde final. It is the joy of this tournament that he's doing. They're like the St. Peter's peacocks, whoever they were in.

When was it? 22. Bad news bears. Yeah, these teams, everyone, everyone now. They've all had access to not just training and coaching.

But the other thing you were talking about diasporas earlier.

And colonialism.

The reality is, in front Paris itself has 73 footballers represented.

They're not just stocking the French team. They're stocking the Senegalese team, the Moroccan team. If Germany did the blurring of boundaries in Balagun, even in the United States. I mean, they're, you know, less. It's incredible that coming from Africa, coming from Europe, coming from Asia.

I mean, it's amazing. And so these teams, all the even the tiny teams have access to true talent pools of footballers that have done for more than if it was truly just a representation of like people who only grew up and play football in in Cape Verde. So it is magnificent. I'm thrilled for the little teams. I will say to see Cape Verde's name on a scorebook by Spain to see Carissa was name.

This must fail. If you haven't ever been to either place, but it must fail absolutely just like an epic national achievement. Not just sporting, but in their nation's history too. See themselves were affected. An epic even in defeat.

“I can remember it might have been, maybe it was a 2002 when the US played Germany.”

We lost to one. Oh, yeah. We lost to the one, okay. So one little thing. One little, I think. Oh, cookie, it's your show. Keep going.

It's your story. What does he thought we lost to the one? We'll see him. You'll remember. We lost eight to four.

Yeah, it's eight. I remember that game. I remember that game. But what it was, we actually dominated play for a good portion of the match.

And this was for an American team that had always been defined by its goalkeepers.

We'd always been defined by, you know, we would form the turtle shell and we would have Brazil come at us and take 25 shots. And if we got out of there with a one nil loss, this was the first time I remember watching the American team against what you were talking about. That top shelf.

“World quality and have moments of actual dominance.”

Possession wise. Everything. Yep. There was a German that handled the American shot when it was going in on the line. Torsten Fringes, name him and shame him.

He handled the ball when the ball was going in. And the referee did not see it. It's a human agony. And it's the closest we've come. We would have been in the in the semi final.

And, you know, ultimately, this is the one place. It is something to think about for your listeners. If the American men do become good at football, it will be the end of the game of football for many fans. It will be like when the people be,

be Gary Kasperov at chess. It will be like, "Sod it, the machines of worm. We have nothing to hold over them." Because right now, I want to say this. They know, like, they laugh at us because we know that we recoil.

Well, like, oh my god, we're not going to call it that. In England, the biggest shows on television are called Soccer AM Soccer Saturday. They use the word. But they also know that we are so slightly inferior. We're so superior in so many things that we aren't like it.

But we're very inferior in men's football. And the world loves it. Everyone laughs at us. And they know that we know that they know that we know that we're better. And they love every time.

Yeah. And American announcer uses the word pitch. They take a great. They take a great pride in the fact that they are forcing an American into this foreign vernacular that sounds so contrived.

Coming out of our mouths. And to the Lenneless Latin, the Lenneless Latin, I'm convinced it's a romcom. Alexi Lallis and Slaton is pro wrestling. It's a symbolic battle for the future of civilization.

It's not just about two guys in the studio. Oh, god. I don't want either of them to win. Terri, Terri on Reed from the sidelines. Yes.

That's what we want. That's what we want on there. But John, I have a good feeling for the US.

“So I think they're on the good side of the drawer.”

If there is a good side. So there is a chance that pathway opens up here. And you know, you mentioned 2000 and 2. Yeah. I think this tournament has a little bit the hallmarks of that one.

Where Turkey, what unfancy the US were relatively unfancy. There were teams, Senegal. There were teams making runs. This tournament reminds me a lot of girls and into. And there could be a journey or two for people or teams that we're not thinking about.

However, I think the final on July the 19th will be two heavy weights. I think there's probably no question there.

But here's what I will say that we haven't brought up yet.

And this is not to flatter you both. Alliance. They have a deep talented Harry Kane at 32 years old. Still shows he has the finishing capability to carry a team.

But to have that. And in Champions League, he had more goals than games even. So much football that you watching, don't you? I'm not just thinking to say, I'm watching it. I'm watching it right now, Roger.

I'm not even actually paying attention to this conversation. I'm actually watching through my screen. Siri A. Yeah. That's right.

I'm watching whatever malong team they want to throw at me at this time of day. I'm watching. Do you know, do you know how many Premier League teams are going to be making Office for you to become a co-owner? I'm just doing it.

I'm just doing it. I'm just doing it. I'm just doing it. I feel like to recognize just tools for you to buy into. To Bullmouth, AFC.

I've got Jerry's. West Ham, West Ham are up for grabs. And here comes John Stewart. And by the way, Western, what a remarkable little story. That's been, yeah.

I mean, the whole thing is I love it. But I also know, and this is through Oliver, that nobody breaks your heart. Like England will break your heart. But I'm telling you this year. I see something there.

I'm telling you, there's something there that's special.

“And I think if they could put it together, they could be one of those heavy”

weights standing at the end. Standing at the end, watching Donald Trump hold up the World Cup trophy. You know, I'm feeling you. I'm feeling you.

I'm feeling you. Yes. It's just very hard to say out loud. This is a very, very good football. It's a very good football.

However, I'm not sure the English people are capable of being woke up winners. I don't know how we're going to handle it. So maybe you do know how that you do know how they are. It won't be good.

I don't know if you do. I think I think you, at that point, if they went, did they just go, we're back. I think this, at this moment in time, glorious failures, probably probably the right thing to happen.

I'm not, I'm, I'm not an England fan, but you do know how, I mean, I grew up in Liverpool, which consider itself a Republican, like Monarchaire or Licensed Stein or whatever, like a socialist republic. There was, when I was a kid, Liverpool was trying to

seed from the rest of England to become a social

public, which was just so insane and amazing.

So like Liverpool people, we didn't chair for England growing up as it was famously, like we're in the north.

“Liverpool was, I think England was like a certain symbol.”

And at the same time, just that sad. I felt for them, even though I'm like very much Team Americano, I felt for them, like, my dad, the desperation, the hunger, the desire. Team 1966, which felt closer to 1066 to me.

They, they, they, they're so huge. It is a bit, but anyone saw this thing to us. One new one. Yeah, and the kids. Yeah, and the kids.

We should've had them until I ruined it to the end. I was the head of God. But yeah, all of that, all of that, all of that, all of that. It's used the arrow gun into the eye, the handing the ball. It's the end of empire.

But it is amazing. England, if you're still this thing, it's like Charlie Brown kicking it.

A football Lucy holding, like something does always go wrong.

But John Stewart, airfingland, win a World Cup. Now, on American turf in the 250th anniversary of independence. It is, it is, you know to read, there will be rockets, fire out the indices that all men can tame rockets. But what magnificent all over this nation,

and God, I'm not sure America's ready. I'm not sure America's ready for that, the new one. I love it. Gentlemen, I can't tell you the pleasure I have taken in this conversation. I'm loving this tournament.

I'm loving both of your coverage of this tournament. And just big fans, Roger Bennett, founder of Men and Blazers Media Network. Roger Global Sports correspondent to New York Times. Guys, thank you so much for being here. Oh, thanks for having us.

Thank you, John. And when you do buy Westham, just just-- You have a spot in the owner's box, my friend. No problem. Ticket, tough price.

Tickets have price. Big, big, less. One drink though. One drink ticket. That's all.

Thank you. Thank you, guys. Guys, I want to thank you both for listening to my men's encounter group session. I love that. It's great.

“I really-- that's out of all the podcast I think we've done.”

That's the first one where I think almost all the guests cried or almost cried.

And the producers cried. I cried. Yeah. Talking about the families and my father and the way that he working class. It really is how it all.

It connects in such a deeper sports music. They connect on these levels. The need to surface of language and everything else.

I'm a really big sports fan. Yeah. You are. Yeah. I know you like the giants.

So you know pain. Yeah. San Francisco, San Francisco. To be specific. I totally am.

I'm like a huge sports fan. Yeah, no burden is not. She's not. She's not having it.

“Have you guys been watching at all any of the world cups of her?”

Your fandom hasn't moved into soccer yet.

I always get so into the world cup.

There we go. I'm not cliche of somebody that's like all of a sudden. Every team too. I'm like, this is my team. Right.

Okay, bird. I love these guys. It's awesome. Yeah. And it's also-- it reminds you coming off of our next experience.

And I know we all share that in the city. But it is. There is a many next experience to be had in the city. All the time. When you go to these pubs that are showing Premier League,

I'm not even talking about just World Cup. You can-- it's-- you visit these other countries. It's-- the funniest is when the pubs are on the city, too, with the Premier League. It's like 8 a.m.

And these guys. They've-- they've had a couple. Yeah. Yeah. I'm confused.

“I'm convinced that's why they're watching.”

They blame it on the time difference, but it's really now.

You go to England. It's 8 a.m. Yeah. They can be in. No.

They were there. And I love how Roger is just like, you know, I'm a sad man. I'm an anxious man. I'm a nervous man.

But I love-- You know, like, he just lights up. It makes him human, he says. Yeah. It makes the whole thing.

And I love that they said, like, we need this. We really do. It's actually-- I mean, that's why I keep getting so missedy watching. It's like-- It's-- we really need this.

Because it is, you know, when you think about just the evidence and corruption and inequality and the things spinning out of control

and to have something like this that still belongs to the people

who ever owns it, who ever runs it. It still belongs. And it reminds you of those moments. And I hate to, again, like, throw them on there. But it reminds you of Hungary tossing out Orban.

It reminds you of the power that still exists in the population. That's what I love. Yeah. It's the unity. Oh, God.

There's an ad that's been running since like before the World Cup started. I think it's Airbnb. And I think it's Claire Daines. That's doing the voice for it. But it's like, when the world meets.

And it's like, do you need it? You know, Jamaica to bring their sound systems to England to make punk music. And before the World Cup, I saw that ad. And I was like, this is so out of touch with, like, what's going on right now. And now the commercial comes on.

And I'm like, that's exactly right. Claire Daines. That's how we do that. Thank you, Claire Daines.

“Brittany, who's what do they want to know from us this week?”

All righty. What do they want? What do they want from us? John. Why are soccer players so overly dramatic when they are knocked down or kicked?

It's an excellent question. I was a soccer player for many years. There is a layer underneath when you play soccer. A layer of nerves that go through there. It's like, do you remember the game operation?

Yes. I'm already put the thing in there. And it doesn't seem like much. You just have, it's a little, you have yourself a little. And you've got a bone.

And you put trying to put the funny bone into where the elbow is. And you think to yourself, well, I just touched that side. I didn't, I didn't bang into it. I didn't hurt it. But what, what happens?

They're not, they're not faking. We're just, we have overly sensitive electrical impulses that go, my favorite ones are the ones who are clearly on the replay. Like, not even touched. Like, they literally just decided, like, I didn't even touch the side. But it's time for me to do.

I'm going to say three forward roles. And then go on my back as though my lungs have come out of my body. Yeah, it's funny too, because sometimes they'll do it. And I'll be like, oh my God. And then they'll show the replay.

And I'm like, I would be out of commission for six months. It happens to me. Like, I get it. Yeah. It is, I mean, overly dramatic, yes.

But there are, as Jillian says, like, it's a very physical game. Yeah. Especially the way they play it in, like, Premier League and all that. Like, they're not playing the beautiful game of, like, Spain and Tikitaki and possession, like, they're running through people.

Which version was William and Mary? I played. I actually went to the hospital one night after a game. A way where we played Old Dominion, down at Odeau, down in Norfolk, Virginia. And it was on their field night game. And both teams were very, there was a heated rivalry there.

There was a fight on the field in the middle of it.

Again, members of Wingback or Centerback.

“Basically went through me on a contested ball from the goalie.”

And I didn't think anything of it. And then after the game, I started pissing blood. Oh, my God. And like, was in the hospital for a week where I, like, I couldn't move. I like, I did you even get a free kick?

Like, oh, we certainly got a free kick off the ball. Oh, good. And I finished out the game without even realizing it. But like, you know, they'll, they'll mash your organs. They will mash your organs as the point.

That's insane. My back could never. Oh, it. Mine couldn't either. I didn't, I'd trust me.

Yeah.

We're not built for the pension.

No. It was a bad scene.

“But, but, but what, but why do I miss it?”

Boy, do I miss it? Old man. Old man glory days. For sure. What else they want?

What else they want? All right. John, what advice would you give? Pro golfers now that heckling is showing up more on the course. Um, it's a great question.

You have clubs. [laughs] If you're, and let's, let's be honest. Let's be fair about this. Uh, when you talk about heckling showing up in the course.

In Long Island. No. It doesn't. It does. Golf is played all over the world.

The only place it shows up is somewhere outside a sci acid. Yeah. It's only master peak. It shows up in the surface. It's a good idea.

Get it? No fucking old you jackass. Um, but there's nothing that I think, you know, depending on the size of the hecklers head that an iron or a wood.

“I mean, that's really what you have to do.”

You have to talk to the caddy and just say, is this a type of dude I could take with a putter? Or do I need to go full wood? Yeah. So easy to take care.

Not a problem. Um, very nice. Is that it? Is there any other, uh, that's it. Beautiful.

I can't tell you how much I enjoy talking about sports this time. And that I didn't have to read any fucking books to do this. Normal I have to. I have to read the books. We're off.

Uh, on the next week, but, uh, how can they get in touch with us? These people. Uh, Twitter. We are a weekly show pod. Instagram, Threads.

TikTok. Blue sky. We are a weekly show pod cast. And you can like, subscribe and comment on our YouTube channel. The weekly show a John Stewart.

Very nice. Guys.

Thanks as always to producer.

I'm Julian Spear. Video editor and engineer Robotola. Audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyson. Our executive producer is Chris McShane. And Katie Gray.

We'll see you. Have a great week off. I'll talk to you guys soon. Boy. The weekly show with John Stewart is a comedy central podcast.

It's produced by Paramount Audio. And bus boy productions. Paramount podcasts.