Talking Tortillas, with Pati Jinich

I'll shop, folks. We'll reach out. Okay. One phrase you're making right now.

“From King Arthur Baking Company, this is Things Bakers, no?”

I'm Jessica Battle on a King Arthur staff editor. And I'm David Smarking, King Arthur's editor of director. And today we're talking about tortillas. Tortillas, you know, I think I often share weird stories with you, and today we'll be no exception. Because one of the things that I like to do when I travel is pick up specialty food from whatever

destination I'm visiting. From the airport. From the airport. From the airport. From the airport.

Yes, duty free. Well, what I also do is that I will pack clothes that I want to throw at. What? I like to pack like old t-shirts that I'll wear them during the trip. And then I throw them out to make room in my suitcase.

For something I want to bring back. Oh my gosh. Okay. So I love this.

I always look very happy.

I'm happy when I travel. Now I understand why so many people look the way they do. I think it is. And then discard them at the end of the trip. To make room for some sort of food stuff that I'm bringing back.

Like I went to San Francisco. I wanted to get the special rice from my friend, who's Japanese chef out there. So I packed a bunch of old t-shirts through them out, brought several gallon bags of rice. But recently, you know, I was in Austin. And when I went in Rome, went in Austin.

I was like, I'm going to get tortillas because there's a lot of things you can get in Maine. You know, but great tortillas are not really one of them. And in Austin, it's like they're so easy to get. Yes. And so inexpensive.

And so I brought back 200, 20. Oh my god.

“Did you have any clothes that you had brought back at this point or did you just like threw up everything?”

And I brought a mixture of corn tortillas, flour tortillas, some that were mixed, corn, and flour different sizes, different thicknesses. Wow. And now I have, you know, I've brought it about my chest freezer before. Yes.

And I'll continue to brag about that for me until the day that I die. Full of tortillas now. Oh gosh, that is great. I mean, so it is true. One of the things I think about most when I think about tortillas is

how hard it is to get a good one in New England. Yes, you know.

And even in New York City, I mean, you were in Texas, which of course has an amazing culture

for Mexican food, and tortillas, you know, a lot in American food. I spent a lot of time in Chicago, lived there for 10 years. There's a huge Mexican population there. And there's so many tortillas, and in the city of Chicago, making fresh mosa every day, and making tortillas, you grab a warm warm.

So this is the thing, you would go to the grocery stores, and you probably still can. I haven't lived in Chicago for a few years. But you would grab Staxo tortillas from the grocery store, and you had your pick up so many brands that were freshly made, that day, and they were still warm. Yeah, warm.

I mean, and that is a, that is a gift. Yeah, it is. A bag of warm tortillas, as you know, because you smuggled them from Texas back to Maine. Um, there are a few things that are as delicious as a fresh tortilla made with good mosa.

“Yes, and I think, you know, I, I have always loved tortillas.”

Well, I want to say always, because I grew up in Vermont.

So, and it was like Vermont, and now you can get packed tortillas here. But, you know, they were never great. And it wasn't until I moved to California to San Francisco, and I was within walking distance of La Paloma, which is a, what do they call it? A Mexican Tessen, and they make both corn and flour tortillas there.

And I think that's like, you know, it was sort of like, that was the, I mean, not the light bulb moment, exactly. But that was where I started to really appreciate, like, oh, it's not a monolith. Like, there are like, you know, there's huge difference between corn and flour. And even within that, there are differences with ones made with fresh mosa or mosa herena,

you know, flour tortillas with lard or with, you know, oil. So, my, the scales fell from my eyes. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. So, yeah, one of the most interesting tortillas that we have on our site is a red tortilla made with chilies to make it red. I mean, so there is not only just corn or wheat, but also like, what else are you going to put in that tortilla? And I feel like we've been

seen a trend for a few years now of people doing some really cool stuff with tortillas, you know, mixing things to make your beautiful colors, pressing flowers, edible flowers. Yeah. There's so much that's happening with tortillas. But today, I think we're going to keep it pretty basic. I think for us, we should go back to the beginning of time. I mean, not really, but we should talk about the origins of tortillas because they have deep, deep, deep, deep,

deep roots. Yes. And this is particular to corn tortillas. What we're about to talk about, but we're going back to 2000 BC. Oh, yes. So, the Aztec Mayan and Mesoamerican people

it was a corn culture. You know, corn was sort of a god to be preyed to, but also a crop. It was the thing that sustained them because corn was kind of everything. I mean, it was these civilizations around a thousand BC that sort of figured out something that kind of like changed. I mean, I don't think it's overstating to say like, it changed the course of civilization.

No, what you're about to talk about, I do think it changed the most important things that

“ever happened to something like that. I think so. So, they discovered that if you took”

dried, you know, dried on the corn, no, dried on the cob, kernels of corn, and they cooked them in water that they had mixed some ash from cooking into the water. That made the water sort of alkaline, and that alkaline water softened the corn. And so, then you were able to like peel off what's called the pericarp, the outer layer, and access the nutritional powerhouse beneath. So, very rich in vitamins, you know, rich in niacin, calcium, and also, once you had the pericarp

off, and this is like we're getting to the tortilla part, like, then you could grind this into something that was like a smooth paste. Right. And then tortillas were born.

The process is now called nextimalization, and you're right, it's an incredible thing. It made

the corn so nutritious, I mean, and without it, I think you would just have like, starchy sugar. Sure, right, starch, right. Right. Right. Without end of the nutrient, so it's not something that could sustain a people for thousands of thousands of years. Yeah. And so, it's a very cool thing, and that same process is happening. Well, that's it. It hasn't changed that much, which is sort of the amazing part. Like, I mean, of course, the production of

tortillas has become more industrial, but the basic, you know, process remains the same. Like, now, instead of ash from your cooking fire, they're using calcium hydroxide or slicked lime in the water. But otherwise, it's still like you cook the corn in this alkaline water. You know, then the paracarp is removed, and then it's ground, and obviously, yes, it's automated. It's not done with, like, you know, a grinding stone anymore, but still, like, the fundamental of it is

is the same. So, corn tortillas came first. Yes. Well, actually, what came first, and I think what we should be clear about is what you have once you go through that process of an visualization and grinding is not a tortilla, you have masa, which is the dough, right,

“which you can use to make a bunch of different things, perhaps the best thing is a tortilla,”

but a corn tortilla is good. Well, perhaps the easiest thing, too. If you didn't have, you know, a lot of extra ingredients, if you didn't have a lot of tools, like the idea of making basically like a pancake out of this dough and cooking it, you know, on a griddle, pretty straightforward. Yeah. So, corn tortillas preceded flower tortillas by, like, you know, I don't know, 500 years or so. But then, you know, Spanish colonizers, we all know how this story goes,

but Spanish colonizers arrive to, you know, present-day Mexico, Central America, and they see that this entire civilization is built around corn. I mean, and I think it's interesting because we think about this symbolic importance of corn to, you know, the Maya and Mesoamerican people. I mean, and for the Spanish colonizers, like, they had a similar relationship to wheat, like, you know, and they sort of believed that, like, you know, well, the body of Christ was not

a corn tortilla, right? Like, it was a piece of bread, and so wheat was really important to those cultures. So, they get to Mexico, Central America, and they think, great, we're going to plant wheat. And they did, and in many parts of Mexico, and Central America, the wheat crop did great, and then they use their traditional methods of, you know, milled it into flower and made these flower tortillas. And I

think it's interesting, like, I always think about convergence on our culinary planet, right? Like,

flower tortillas are very similar to many of the, like, flat bread's that you see the

“unleavened flatbreads that you see throughout, you know, Eastern Europe. And so, yeah, I think”

they got a foothold in Mexico, and it remains that way today. There are parts of Mexico that are still sort of flower tortillas, strongholds. And I love a flower tortilla. But I do want to talk now, because I think we've arrived at the moment where it is interesting to talk about the difference between a store bought shelf stable corn or flower tortilla and the homemade, for, you know, think we're made fresh made different. I think, you know, when you make tortillas at home,

you understand pretty quickly that they're not last a long time, you know, they're not,

in mind when you're thinking about, you know, the tortillas that I buy these things. Yeah,

right. So, can you ask for it and I buy them, you know, I live in the neighborhood in Manhattan, you know, where there are a lot of tortillas around, but they're just they just have attitudes. And they have things in there to preserve them. And they are not as fragrant as, you know, fresh made tortillas. I mean, one of my favorite smells in the world is opening a bag of

“masa. I mean, you should, because I'm usually working with masa green and not fresh masa,”

like it had fresh masa or just, you can't see me here because some of you can't, but I'm like, you know, I mean, the smell of the smell of that fresh corn. Yeah. And they're, they're like, client, too. I mean, a fresh corn tortilla. Like, you know, if you get a store about stack of corn tortillas and you go to like, fold one and a half, like, it's going to crack unless you, like, steaming them microwave or something, like, it's just they dry out so quickly.

Yeah. Whereas, like, a freshly made one is like, supple. And you know, it's like, the test of a good tortilla is fresh tortillas. Yeah. It's been made well. Is that you putting your hand, you should be able to crumple it up. Oh, wow. And then unfurl it and should cut and it should remain intact. Oh, wow. Imagine that. Yeah. Yeah. The test of a good tortilla. I'm a good tomato tortilla. Freshly made, going tortilla. And you're right. The ones in the grocery store will crack,

because they've, you know, probably not that fresh and they're all just right out a little bit. Yeah. Another great tip that I was recently reminded of by Lucas Volger, who of course is a friend of the brand, a great food writer. He runs the sub-stack family friend. Is to heat the tortilla's up in a skillet that's just very lightly slick with oil. Really helps. You know, I think it helps hydrate the tortilla a little bit. You know, keeps that pan, the non-stick, the sauce tortillas,

flipping and frying. It's a very good, another good way to do it. Nice. So it's not impossible. I mean, like I said, I do this a lot, because I feel they say I don't want to make my own tortillas.

“But you have the store about tortillas, not as good by any means. No. And you have to,”

you have to revive them. You can't just use them right out of the way. No. We have great tortillas recipes on our site. We have flower tortillas recipes. We have corn tortillas recipes. We have a 50/50, which are terrific. They're half-wheat, half-wheat, half corn. And that's a good, like, entryway, I think, if you're, it is. When they get into corn tortillas, they make it, it's a much easier, yes, corn tortillas. Yes, you know. Yes. But so anyway, we'll put

all of those recipes in the show notes as part of our agenda to get everyone making homemade tortillas by the end of this episode. Right. Right. So go look at the show notes now. Gather your ingredients. And then you can get ready while we talk to our guest. Right. Who is going to help us make good tortillas at home? Patty Yenich is truly one of my favorite people on the planet.

She is such an amazing cook and such a, I mean, she's just a joyful personality. I just,

I love talking to her. And of course, she's a cookbook author too. So we're bringing Patty Yenich she's on a lot of work with us here at King Arthur, and she's going to get all of us in tortilla making shape. Awesome. I can't wait to hear. Patty Yenich is one of the four most authorities on Mexican food. She's the author of several books, including treasures of the Mexican table, Mexican today, and a cookbook that's about to come out this fall, foods of La Franteira go pre-order that now.

And of course, she's the host and producer of several PBS series, including Patty's Mexican table. It's 15th season, which is amazing. And Panamena Gana, how do I do pronouncing that? Not too good. That's not that beautiful. You know, she's, she's also a very sweet person at a long time friend of King Arthur. And Patty, I am so thrilled to have you on the podcast. I love talking to you. And I'm so excited to talk about tortillas. Oh, thank you so much, David. And I love how you said

Panamena Gana. We wanted to bring you on to talk about tortillas. It mean to me, I don't know if you

“agree, but it is in my opinion, the most elemental and essential of foods and of Mexican food,”

but of lots of, you know, cuisines, South and Central America. And I wanted to start by asking you,

if you remember by any chance making your first tortilla, or if you have any memories,

or really memories of tortillas? Yes, of course, you know, growing up in Mexico City and having tortillas around was just like having a light, you know, having a light around every neighborhood has its not one but few tortillas. And we would go every week and get fresh, it was corn tortillas,

were coming out hot of the giant machine. You would ask for a couple of dozens and then they would give you an extra one. And they had there in the counter and that was the case in every tortilla. They had salt in the valve and so you could make a tachito de nada, which translates to a taco of nothing or nothing taco, which is in my mind, you know, after considering a ripe avocado, slice inside of a corn tortilla, that would most delicious thing. It's just fresh corn tortillas,

earthy, nutty, super soft, mario bowl, which is the sprinkle of salt. And if they happen to have

a little stick of butter, then that was like, oh my gosh, you know, that most amazing things,

I'm you're bringing up so many things about the tortilla that I want to talk about. So let's pretend we're talking to a bunch of home cooks and they are getting ready to make tortillas for the first time. You've done a lot of work teaching people how to make tortillas. You developed the tortilla recipe on our site, which we're so grateful for and is a great recipe. I've used it so many times. What would you say, what advice would you give to the home cook who is just starting?

I would say, well, first of all, I'm so happy that more people want to try and make their own

corn tortillas. And I would say a few things are essential. Like the first thing is

give yourself the time. It's not something that you're going to make like a sandwich, like you have to reserve a block of time to be relaxed. Like you can start making your corn tortillas

“at 6 p.m. if you want to be serving dinner at 6.30. So I would say, give yourself the time”

get the tools, like get a really good tortilla press and a really good tortilla press isn't an expensive one at all. It just it has to be you know heavy. It has to it just has to to flatten the marissa. Like nothing complicated there. But I would steer away from the fancy big square tortilla presses because they're more cumbersome to use. I like just the basic steel or heavy aluminum round tortilla presses. And it's funny because most of the good tortilla presses are a little bit uneven.

You have to jiggle them a little bit when you use them, but that's just part of the process. And then to press the tortilla, you need plastic. And some people forget about that. And we'll press the marissa in the tortilla press and then the marissa sticks faster.

“You need to remember and people forget you need plastic on both sides. So you open up the tortilla press.”

You layer a sheet of plastic. And I like using the plastic from the plastic bags from the grocery store from the vegetable aisles. That very thin plastic is the best in just cut circles. And you want to cut the circle larger than the base of the tortilla press so that you're not messing with it too much. And then you put it right there. Because I love that tip about using the plastic bag from the grocery store. And you would not recommend using plastic wrap, right? Like

something like that. No, no, because plastic wrap is way too thin and it crumbles and it's going to mark all those wrinkles in the marissa. So the the produce bags are the best in between the plastic wrap and say a c-plock bag, which a c-plock bag is not bad. Like I would much rather go for a c-plock bag

than plastic wrap. Mix your Masadina with with water. I do a lot of pinch of salt. I never add

fat to my Masadina unless if I'm making Masadom Plings or sopids or gorditas. But for quantities, you don't need to add any fat at all. And you want to make sure that you have a pan that's been preheating and you know over medium low heat for at least 10 minutes. Because you want that surface to be very hot and ready for the tortilla. If it's not hot enough, when you lay down the

“tortilla, the tortilla will stick. Think of pancakes or crepes. It'll stick and then you have to wait”

on to a crisp crust to flip it. And you don't want it to be too hot or it will burn the tortilla and not cook it from within. And I recommend for people that are starting that they use

tortillas a few times, you can go to Wacomal. That's not nonstick or a cast iron pan. I have a lot of

“friends that use cast iron pans and they love it. And then you have to wait for the Masadina out”

in tortilla and it has to be very thin. To be a Mexican tortilla, it has to be very thin. If it's thicker, it's good for a pupusa, which is not Mexican. I mean, it's delicious but not for tacos. And then

you just have to have patience. It's like when you're learning to make crepes. You know the first

is the second one, the third one, or probably not going to be your best ones, but you just have to continue going at it. Yeah. So can I, there are two points over this process where I personally get tripped up sometimes, especially if I haven't done it in a while. So I want to know if you have any tips for me. What is the hydration of the dough? It's important. You get that right. And but we know that we can give people a recipe and people can weigh with grams, but depending on

what season it is, depending what your kitchen's like, depending of what type of mass you're using, it that, you know, these elements change, you know, how the dough's going to feel. What should I be

“looking for in the Masa? How thick you should it be? This is such a great question. And it has”

a temperamental, temperamental answer, because it really depends on the weather, not only of where you live, save your in colorado, or your in Florida, how much humidity there is, the altitude because that will also, you know, affect the heat and how long you're cooking the tortilla. So what your look, this is very easy. And I know people think it's very complicated, but this is what you're looking for. You're looking for a Masa that is soft as fresh Plato. It's, you know, Plato,

when you first take it out of the, of the little container, after you've used Plato a few times,

and you forgot to put the lid on, then it starts getting crackling and you can't play with it as well.

“And the best test to know if the, and you have to really meet the dough, even though it's just”

flour and water, and I like to add, you know, hot or lukewarm water, even though it just mixing that, I do like to add a pinch of salt, and you have to let the Masa hydrate for a little while for a few minutes. You can just immediately start making the tortillas because the Masa will continue transforming. That is the Masa in a, will continue absorbing the water and becoming a thing. You know, the Masa in the water will become its own thing, not separate units. So you have to

give it that time. But when you make your balls of dough, and I like to divide the Masa from the get go, because I, you're not going to like me saying these, but I don't like to weigh my Masa, my balls of Masa, I just take that's heresy on this podcast, but yes, okay. And I honestly, I don't mind if some tortillas are a little bigger than others, I really don't mind. But what you need is a final texture, and the proof is, when you have your ball of Masa and you press it in the tortilla or the tortilla

press, and there should be no cracks on the edges. That's how you know that the Masa is moist and wet enough. If there are cracks, it's too dry. If yes. And then can it be saved? Would you put a little more water? Okay. You just get the, gather the Masa, throw it back in the ball, in the, in the bowl where you have the Masa, and not more water and need it again. Okay.

Or you could even do it to just that ball of Masa. It's always, always savageable, until you

cook it. The most important thing to make really good, um, contrary to yes, is to cut yourself slack, the clean yourself time in the kitchen, and to cut yourself slack and be kind and loving and forgiving to yourself and build that determination and confidence. So, it doesn't matter. You're just going to get better with time. Before we, and our conversation, I wanted to talk about some of the regional styles of tortillas in Mexico. You've been doing a lot of traveling.

You know, for your TV show, it sounds like your new book is about the regional food. Is that right? You know, love like that. Yes. Yes. Yes. My next cookbook is called "Foods of La Franteira".

Southern US States and the Northern Mexican States, and I realize David that we Mexicans know

“so little about northeño cuisine and culture. And one of their pillars is the flower tortilla.”

And in those Northern Mexican States, they use sonoran wheat, which is extraordinary. But of course, you can, you can just find any good wheat to make flour tortillas. But the flour tortillas are so divine. They're like thin little biscuits or pancakes. I mean, they're just buttery, they're flaky. They're all kinds. They're like super thin, big ones for burritos. They're normal size ones for tacos. There are some that are made on special occasions that are used. The

were butter is used for the fat. There's some places in the border where they use beef, lard, or talo, and they use the beef cracklings. There's some parts where they use poor clard. There's some parts where they use specific kinds of vegetable shortening. There's even some flower tortillas that are called "gorditas de arena", not "gorditas de mais", like "gorditas de arena", which are just chopier, flour tortillas that are made with butter and evaporated milk.

“And can people describe the taste? And what are those used for? Are they eaten on their own?”

Or are they filled? So those are typically used for filling them with refried beans and milk it is. Oh my god. They're like little empanadas. They're such a luxury. You know, the more I travel and the more I do, the more I'm just hoping for more years, David, because I realize I know so little, you know, I used to think, oh, I know so much, I'm from Mexico. And you know, no, in Mexico, corn tortillas are better than some tortillas. And then I travel to like half of Mexico and

realize that the rule there is really good for tortillas and that they're incredible. So I think

there's so much to learn. I mean, I could talk to you for years, honestly, about, you know, listening to you talk about this stuff, because it just is all so fascinating. And I just think Mexican and cuisine is the richest cuisine. I'm going to go ahead and say for me, I just think there's so much to explore and so much delicious, so many delicious things included all the tortillas. It's so wonderful to talk to you. I wish I could talk to you forever. But our editors are going to

kill us. Bye. We see some odd, but we can get to do these again many in time. Hey, it's Francis Lamb, host of the splendid table podcast. Every week on a show, we celebrate the intersection of food and life. In this month, we're releasing a new series called Culinary Masters. It highlights some of those iconic people in the food world. And we're revisiting conversations with people who have fundamentally changed how many of us cook and think about

food. People like Jacques Le Pan, Claudia Rodin, and Tony Bourdain, the name of few, you can listen to this special series now. Just search for the splendid table and your podcast app. This episode is brought to you by Broad and Taylor. Our Broad and Taylor is an independent family-owned company that builds tools for all breadbreakers at every level to transform complex baking challenges into simple pleasures. I love Broad and Taylor. I mean, they are so passionate about

bread and baking when I talk to those folks. It really feels like I'm talking to someone in King Arthur too. There's that synergy there because we only have one thing on our mind. It's baking baking baking. I love their tools. They really truly are an asset for every home baker. And

“you and I both have quite a few of them in our own kitchens. You know, my favorite I think is the”

countertop proofer. I don't know. You're into the baking steel, but they have a lot of great tools.

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call us 855-371-2253 that's 2253 as in bake. Let's hear our questions. Hi, this is Sue calling from North Carolina. My question is, I want to make tortillas, but what do I do if I don't have a tortilla press? Well, first of all, I'm glad that our tortilla messaging is getting through to this color. She really wants to make tortillas at home. Yeah. And we haven't talked about tortilla press this yet and actually it's an important thing to talk about because there is a wide range

of them out there and they have all in prey to the cheap tortilla press, which is light. Oh no, I don't have a plastic one. I haven't had a one. I didn't know they made plastic ones. It's not great. You don't want to get a light one, you don't want to, I don't think you need

to buy an expensive tortilla press, but you want to get one with some half to it first of all.

Okay. If I assume that you want to make tortillas now and you don't have a tortilla. Yes. And I will say a tortilla press is sort of a single use appliance. And sometimes you just like can't, you know, can't make the space for a single or you're, you know, you're an occasional tortilla maker. And so you perhaps haven't leveled up to justify the purchase of a tortilla press. But that's

“okay. I mean, if you want to, and obviously this this color wants to make corn tortillas because if they”

wanted to make flour tortillas, they would just see a rolling pin. But you have a hack for yeah, if you're just getting into it, you don't want to buy a tortilla press yet. You got to get those sheets of plastic those are non-negotiable. Yes. But I would, you know, set a piece of plastic on the countertop, put your ball of masa on top, plastic on top of that. And then I would use the heaviest skillet you have. So I would use a cast iron skillet and I would not slam it down

that way, you know, you press gently. And this is something else we haven't talked about that one of the other nuances of making tortillas at home is the pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like if you press it too much or you, you know, you press too much with this cast iron skillet, you're going to get something way too thin. Yeah. Right to the pan. And if you don't do enough, it'll be too thick. So anyway, you know, experiment with that, but you can get a pretty nice

even press with a cast iron. With a large skillet. Well, let's go to our next question. How do we get my tortillas? Practice. Practice. Practice makes better. And again, I think this is a question

“really for, I mean, flower tortillas. I don't think you have to work so hard to pop. Like they,”

they just kind of do. Corn tortillas, though. And it's interesting like people think about a puffing corn tortillas, a hallmark up a good tortilla. Yeah. Right. I think, and I think it is taking, I mean, I mean, you know, when you see people who really know how to make tortillas, like if you're at a restaurant or a tortilla, be a, I mean, those things are popping out. Yeah. Like, and they're, it's a beautiful thing to watch. You know, they do it and it seems so easy.

And it's not sometimes your tortilla does not puff. Because they have no leavener in them. They have no leavener. So it's technique and temperature. And yeah, and it's, you know, steam, so it's your hydration right, you know, in your dough, it's all sorts of factors. One thing you can do if your tortilla is cooking and it's not puffing and you really want it to puff.

And this is good. I do this all the time. You know, I always want to give it a chance, right?

Take a spatula and gently press on the tortilla, press it down. It's the hot skillet. Maybe flip it, you know, do that again. That pressing motion which works with a lot of things. A lot of flatbread. Yeah, a lot of flatbreads does encourage puffing and sometimes that works. You get a beautiful puff then and then it settles down. You don't have a lot of time when you're making tortillas, they don't cook them. Because you're grittling them pretty high heat. Yeah, actually it's like 90

seconds, you know. It's about the average time. And so I wouldn't keep your tortilla on the skillet and pressing it to try to get it to pop. Yeah, and then it'll dry out. Yeah, just move on. Yeah, I mean, and the nice thing is even a non puffed corn tortilla still very delicious. I get

but it'll eat as we used to say growing up. It'll eat. Yeah. So I think, yeah, just you're right,

“just it's getting the reps in. Yeah. And you know, I think like every time you do something”

I have this, like you learn a little bit about like, oh, maybe I should about a little bit more water or, and you know, there's going to be variability between fresh masa and, you know, reconstitute masa harina. So, you know, I wish there was a magic, you know, a magic tip, but it is really practice. Yeah, it's practice and not something to worry about. Yeah. I think we have one more tortilla question. Hi, my name's Lauren. I'm calling in from Virginia. My question is, I have a tortilla recipe

that calls for Vard and I'm wondering, do I need Lard or could I use something else and how does

your choice of fat make a difference in flower tortillas? Thanks. You do not need to use Lard. I mean, it's really just a question of flavor. And some people find the flavor of Lard to be off putting, you know, or if you're a vegetarian and you just don't want to use Lard, that's fine. Yeah. Also,

“I think, um, it is a sad fact that a lot of like the commodity Lard that you get, like the blocks”

of, you know, it's like sold in a brick like butter is not very delicious anyway. So, you can use we, when we were working on the big book of bread, we tried lots of different fats knowing that some people wouldn't be able to get Lard or wouldn't want to use Lard for whatever reason. And we experimented with butter in tortillas, we experimented with coconut oil, um, you know, like the solid coconut oil, um, we experimented with like other neutral oils and they all work.

So, that's like functionally, there's really no difference. So, it's really just a question of a flavor. Um, so you can definitely sub something else out, uh, and, you know, to be great. I do like Lard, like if you can get good Lard, a Lard tortilla, I think is delicious, but, you know, it's nice to know that you can sub something else, and it will be just fine. And you substitute the same amount by, you know, weight or volume, yeah, to be good to go. Anyway, there's fat

fat episode coming soon. Oh, we should do a fat episode. Well, now I've told one of my last fat stories. I'll come up with another one. Every episode we like to check in with Jessica to see what wildly surprising and full-threaded opinions are in her head. I say, we love and recall just opinions. I got a preview of what just a opinion is. Uh, but I didn't hear the whole thing, and I'm very excited Jessica for your tortilla, just opinion. Yeah. So, this is, I mean, I'm

digging a little bit here because it's, it's about burritos. Okay. Which, of course, related to tortillas, you know, you can't absolutely really have a burrito without one. No, you can't. Um, and I was I mean, let us not count. Sorry. It's not a wrap. I was thinking about my, I mean, I love a burrito. Until I get to like the last inch of the burrito. Okay. A. K. The burrito stump. Okay. Yeah. You know, we're all the tortilla. We've already eaten one of the stumps. Yeah. Yeah. Do you start your

burritos in the middle? Look, look. When you get to the bottom, and it's sort of compressed by your hand and the weight of the burrito ingredients, and you have that sort of like

kind of dense layer upon layer of tortilla and, you know, tortilla, but. Yeah. Basically,

you get to the stump revolting. I do not like a burrito stump at all. Okay. Like, I'll stop eating it there. Yes. But our producer was, I don't know, our producer was like horrified. She said that was her favorite part of the burrito. I just think it's too much tortilla. Like, I like to have, well, it's a lot of tortilla. It's not naked tortilla. It's so much, and naked, but also sort of slimy a little bit. Oh, God. But you're really selling it. I know. But I will say there is a way to

save the stump. My Yankee thrift coming to bear again is like, I will take the stump home, wrap it up. Okay. This is where you're losing it. Take it home, refrigerate it, and then the next morning, I'll chop up the stump. Okay. The face you're making right now. Wait, just to be clear,

“we're talking about a bunch of vitamins. An entire inch. Yeah. I think so. We're talking about two”

grams of tortilla. Okay. You've taken it home. You've started it home carefully. This is I know you're like a wounded bird and put it in your bread in my fridge. I know you're a germ

chop it. Okay. Fry it up in a little oil. So those tortilla bits start to crisp. And then I

beat some eggs. And I pour them on top. And I make what we call stump eggs. Wow. Yeah, it's a one. I mean, you have a family of stump swords. It's just one stump. Do you all go on to get like burritos or what? Wait, wait, what's my family? We'll eat the stump.

“Please tell me this isn't your quick book, stump eggs. I believe they're my cookbook.”

Sadly, no, but that's a freebie. This is a bonus recipe. There you go. We'll put it in the subject. It's sharing something. It shares something with, I don't know, like maybe it's like a relative of like megas, right? Like, well, I don't know. A lot of one of the things you can do with tortillas and eggs. Yeah. And you're like, I didn't see you. I didn't see the, uh, I wanted to say the

pantheon, is that the right word? Yeah, the pantheon of egg and tortilla things. Well, so, you know,

I don't know, this could be a minority opinion about the stump, um, but yeah, this is less about your opinion and more about, uh, I just want to give people this free idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your commitment to thrift is admirable. I, you know, I'm, I'm confused and I'm like, I'm like, worried about you and like, I'm all these, but then I'm like sitting and realizing, you know, like in my household, there is a phrase that my husband just called the David piece, which like the

little pieces that I keep on everything. Oh, I mean, he used it meant it's very stumped. I like how you're acting actually. Yeah, I know. I actually, I'm really into this. Yeah. Yeah, it took you a long time to reveal this. I know, but I'm going to, uh, it's a bit fainting, fainting shock. Um, what are you going to, what are you going to use any of your David pieces in your, your base this week? What are you going to make? Well, I might. Uh, all this talk about corn tortillas,

uh, and mosa reminded me that one of my favorite things to do with mosa is not a tortilla, but tortilla, as which is a mosa arena pancake. That's a really great recipe for on the site. It's a mix of AP flour, you know, wheat flour and mosa arena. Um, so flavorful and I love pancakes. And so it's just like another one to add. Yeah. So I will be making mosa arena pancakes. And yeah, I'm going to be shopping up 14 and stumps and putting them in there.

Why don't you do them. You eat them like with the sweet topping. Like, uh, you know what, I, um, I actually really like a pancake just with butter. Oh, yeah. No, like, I kind of just eat them standing. And I usually make a kind of making the batch, you know, and then by the time like they're done, like, I've already eaten like three pans. Yeah. Yeah. And I put the rest in my freezer and I kind of

toast them at the end. You know, it's just not the first time this season that I've taught about pancakes.

No, I, you know, so I really like a pancake and I like it as like a quick thing. I can toast sometimes outdipping and maple syrup. I don't usually do a savory though. No, it would be kind of

“like a swipe of blueberry jam on it though, because I think corn like mosa and blueberries. We”

have a, a, um, coffee cake on our site that combines mosa and blueberries. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Actually, the recipe on Tom talking about does include a blueberry sauce. Oh, yeah. That sounds nice. Yeah. Um, I'm going to do, I'm going to make our lemon tiramisu. Oh, which it has, I've been, I've been, been marketed to by King Arthur and it's working because I haven't seen this lemon tiramisu. And it just seems like, I mean, we, we've been talking a lot about what you do in this

shoulder season. I mean, okay, Californians, if we have any California listeners, this is not for you. Like, you're already eating strawberries and you can't keep quiet about it. No, we're in full sticks season. But we're in sticks season. We're like, it's no, there's no rhubarb, you're like, what are we going to do? It's just sticks season versus mud season. I mean,

“it's just terrible. That's what it is. It sticks season. I whatever. Yeah. I mean, it's still bleak.”

It's still winter. There's still no fresh stuff. But the lemon tiramisu gives you like, you know, a sort of like suggestion of brighter days. Yeah. So it substitutes lemon cello where you would use, you know, like for the instead of an espresso liquor, it still has the mascarpone layer. It's still has lady fingers. And then there's lemon curd in there. It uses a recipe for lemon curd that's made in the microwave, which is genius recipe, like on

its own, to just have around. But that looks really delicious and pretty. And I think it might just get me through these next few weeks. So I'm going to try it out. Call me. Come over. Come over and have to hear me, Sue. Thank you for tuning in and joining us here on Things Bakers. No, we're going to be back next week. We're talking about quassal. Oh, that's going to be very bad. I didn't want to be in my pronunciation. I know, I feel like Chris sandwich for St. Paul wants to know how

never done. So I would not be very much help. But as always, we appreciate the listeners listening.

“We appreciate the callers calling. Keep it up. Yeah. Remember to please give us a like.”

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Anything to me time. Don't forget. Follow the recipe. Follow the recipe.

Things Bakers know is hosted and executive produced by me, David, to marketing.

“And me, Jessica Badalana. Rossi and us to Pula was our senior producer.”

Chad Chennai is our producer and Marcus Bagala is our engineer, original music by Megan and Marcus Bagala. Thanks again to Patty Hinnich for appearing on today's episode. You can learn more about her and her work at PattyInnich.com. Things Bakers know is a King Arthur Baking Company Podcast.