884: The Idiot

If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, thisamericanlife.org. From WBC Chicago, it's a American Life Mara Glass, and I am joined in the studio by M. Guesson, hello. Hi, sir. So nice to have you back here.

It's always lovely to be here.

And the story that you're about to tell today is one that you've been telling for years. Yeah, first it was just, you know, there was something weird going on in my family. But also in the same ways that my family talks about these crazy events. And is this story a story that, when you would tell it to, to friend and loved ones, was it a funny story? And I hesitate to say that it was a funny story, but yes, yes, it was a funny story.

“And I mean, maybe that's also just the only way that we can deal with things that are unbelievable.”

It wasn't until I started reporting it that I realized how horrible the story actually was. And when you started to report it, this was years ago, originally this was going to be a story for this American life. And then at some point it just got too big, like it just, it was like, we cannot contain this in one episode of our show. And you turned it into this podcast with cereal. Yes.

And it's now a five part series with cereal that was released this week. And you've been doing read throughs of drafts of you've been writing drafts that have set it on. And I just want to say, like, I just, I love this show and feel like this show is so different from other podcasts that I have heard in a bunch of interesting ways. And what we're going to do today on our program is we're going to walk through enough of the story so that listeners here can hear what I'm hearing in it. And then if they want to go and listen to the whole thing, from WBC Chicago, it's this American life.

I'm out of glass, that's going to be our show today.

And we're going to begin by playing the first episode of the series, which is almost like a prologue and sets a whole thing up.

Is there anything else that we should say before we play that? No, I think we can jump in. Okay, let's just jump right in with that. My family, if I had to give it an adjective is elastic. 45 years ago, my parents, my little brother and I came over to this country from the Soviet Union,

extending the family across continents. Over the decades, the family, my father really, stretched to absorb spouses in laws even though they spoke a different language. Children both biological and adopted, expouses who chose to stick around, and eventually grandchildren.

Over those same decades, as in any family,

“people meet bad decisions, said things they hope no one would remember,”

got mad at each other, held grudges, came around, and the family stretched as needed. And then it snapped. Someone did something bad bad, that shocking. That person was my cousin Alan. He and his mother, my father's sister, Lena,

came to the US for Moscow 1990 when Alan was 15. They stayed with my parents and brother for almost a year. By the time they arrived, I no longer lived at home, so I didn't have much relationship with them.

Never really wanted to, because I didn't like my aunt.

And as Alan grew up, I realized even from a distance that I didn't particularly like him either. Alan is a clown, a blow-ahart, a pompous ass. He would call himself an entrepreneur.

“He started his first business in college.”

He hired students to go straight papers for other wealthier students. He went to law school and got fired from his first job. He later told me this was because his finely-go-mind made the other lawyers in secure. Then he lived in Russia, Ukraine, Zimbabah, working in a series of increasingly shady jobs.

In Africa, he was involved with diamonds and worked with an Israeli company that provided security for mining. If someone had set out to write an unlikable international hoxster character, they couldn't have laid it on any sticker. Alan married Zimbabah woman, warden the family was the chidbin that country's beauty queen. They took kids.

Last I knew all of them, including my aunt Lena, were living in Moscow. And then, in the summer of 2019, everyone on the American side of the family got a Facebook message from Alan, informing us that he had arrived in the US with his five-year-old son, whom I'm going to call O. Alan wrote, "They've come for O to quote commens his studies. I repeat, O was five. His wife he wrote was still in Russia with their baby daughter. They had separated.

Alan added ominously, quote, "things are less than amicable. She might make attempts to contact you with a request detrimental to mine and O's interest," unquote. I immediately texted my brother Keith, who was closer to Alan.

The answer would appear to be maybe, my brother responded. Just a note, this isn't the big shocking thing I was talking about earlier. We were still a few years away from that. I call my dad. He told me that Alan had just shown up at his house and keep caught without warning. His five-year-old son was with him as was Lena, my dad's sister.

I asked my dad if we should do something about the maybe kidnapping, like, I don't know, contact the FBI. This was the wrong thing to say to a guy who grew up in the Soviet Union.

He would never call their authorities on his sister and nephew.

“What he did do was pose to picture of Owen Facebook. Perhaps a message in a bottle for O's mom?”

Sure enough, my father immediately heard from her. Her name is Priscilla. Priscilla wrote to my dad describing the reveal she was enduring. She said she had gone on a short business trip to Zimbabwe, and when she returned, she discovered that Alan had left with her son. It had been about a week and only now, from seeing my father's Facebook post,

was she learning anything more. Priscilla wrote, "I beg you, please, to help me get my son back, or to at least speak to him. Please do not tell them I have written to you. If you are unable to help me, then just ignore my message."

I received the long, long letter from Priscilla, but I just ignored it.

My father can be quite literal. So what did you think was going on then? Was she, did you think she was lying? Or, honestly, I didn't pay my attention. I don't know. No. I understood that something is wrong with their marriage, but beyond that, no. Like I said, my family is elastic.

To keep it that way, my father preferred not to know too much, and it wasn't just him. My three younger brothers, their partners, my own grown son, assorted friends of my father's, everyone acted like, "Hey, sometimes men and their mothers just change confidence with a five-year-old until."

“And here's the thing, they were fun. My father loves having family around.”

The whole reason he lives in a big house and Cape Cod is so that his four kids and five grandkids gather around him. But the house has seen better days and all the kids and some of the grandkids have busy lives. Alan and Nana and Ozerival in the scene read new life into the house and the family. Nana would come up with ridiculous activities like, "Let's write the guests and

family anthem," and was always taking black and white pictures that made us all look like more

stylish versions of ourselves. Alan was always driving up in his Tesla with new gadgets and tales of new business ventures. I found him ridiculous, but my youngest brothers and my oldest son, hung in every word. Alan would sit on the couch with these very young men and scrolls for pictures of women on Tinder. They all look like models. Alan was bald as a billiard ball and had a giant protruding belly. He claimed that he had matched with all of those women.

After a while, Alan was eager to talk about why he had taken O. He claimed that Priscilla was a bad mother. She parted all the time. She did drugs. She cheated on Alan. To me, they sounded like good reasons to get a divorce, not to take your child from his mother. Nana had her own complaints. She said Priscilla didn't read to her child, and perhaps even worse didn't read books herself. The only book she kept on the house, Nana claimed, was the Bible.

I thought, "Wait, this was why Nana and Alan took Priscilla's son away?"

“There are a few things that I think justify separating and kid from his parent,”

but Nana and Alan didn't seem to think that much justification was required. I couldn't stop thinking about what Priscilla must be going through. Without telling anyone in the family, I decided to reach out to her. I had met her only a couple of times and barely had a sense of her. I knew the chorque in fashion, and knew from Nana that Priscilla's father owned a huge farm in Zimbabwe, and I knew that she

would have no reason to trust me. I wasn't sure she'd respond. I texted her that I knew only Nana and Alan's side of the story. Priscilla rode back right away. She was stuck in Russia. Her daughter, whom I'll call L, had been worn via surrogacy, because Priscilla was unable to carry a pregnancy to term. The baby was eight months old, but Priscilla still didn't have a birth certificate for her,

which meant that they couldn't leave the country. We traded short messages back and forth. Our exchange was friendly, but guarded. I didn't want to overstep, and I think Priscilla tried to say only what needed to be said. It was enough for me to sense that she was an English, and I was horrified. How could this woman's child just be taken away from her? How could my family just sit by, and what was going to happen to Ona? Priscilla told me that the Russian police would not help her.

Does Zimbabwe an embassy said that she could file a petition under the hate convention?

to another country. But Priscilla needed legal help in the US. I could be useful here.

“I called a friend who connected Priscilla with a person on the justice department,”

who specializes in these kinds of cases. Priscilla also needed Liana Allen and O's physical address in the states, so she could begin the hate process. This I could definitely help with. I knew that they'd left Cape Cod for New York, which is where I love. I invited my aunt, cousin, and nephew over Fediner. Allen was away from business, so Liana arrived with O, who got conscripted into a human pyramid by the young people of my household.

As I slid turche stakes into the oven, I asked Liana the question all New York City parents ask oh other New York City parents. Where will O go to school? He was about to turn six. Liana said that she had no idea how schools even functioned in the city. Do let me explain the studio I said and took out my phone. What is your address? Let's see what district that is.

“Vingo. I had their address. I sent it to Priscilla.”

Some weeks later, apparently on the lock, they moved to Massachusetts. I figured out that address too. It was a double agent fan. I tracked Liana Allen and O through their Facebook posts, messages to the family chat and occasionally we can't make my father's house on Cape Cod. When they moved to New York, I let Priscilla know. If I had news about O, I texted Priscilla. Sometimes she just asked for reassurance that he was all right. From all the men in my family,

my father, my three brothers and my son, I hid the fact that I was in touch with Priscilla. I thought they'd see what I was doing as a disloyal and my draft man out to Allen. My daughter knew. It was a little bit exciting, but it also gave me an excuse for maintaining peace with my newly and large family. But the more I hang out with them, the more I just hang out with them.

“O was growing. Allen and Liana were building a life. I watched. Sometimes I caught myself thinking”

that it was a pretty good life. Allen Liana and O moved into a farmhouse in Concord, Massachusetts. Liana furnished us tirelessly. They seemed to spend most of their time actively raising O. They enrolled him in Jewish school, violin lessons, dancing, horseback rating, and I'm sure I'm still forgetting something. They dressed O like a tiny little gentleman, complete with brogs and fedora hats, and by some sort of miracle the result wasn't annoying.

O was a delight, curious and entertaining without being overbearing, and unfailing the polite. He seemed happy. Whatever damage being separated from his mother had done, I couldn't see it. What I could see was that he was doded on and thriving. To put it another way and it wasn't easy for me to admit that I was seeing this. Allen seemed like a great dad, kind, attentive, devoted, and fun. Two years passed like this. Eventually, Priscilla and L, who was now a toddler,

made it to the United States. I hadn't messaged with Priscilla in over a year, but I heard from my father that Priscilla's claim filed under the hate convention, was going to be herden fetal cordon Boston. The case would probably drag on for a while, but I assumed that Priscilla would now be able to see her son. And then there it was on social media. Priscilla posted a picture for herself, embracing O. I liked the picture. I figured my job was done. My time is a double agent, long over.

About four months later, Allen was arrested for kidnapping O. Not for the time he took O from Russia. This was new. That incident, which I need to say is still not the big shocking thing that rock Masha's family, that's coming up. Stay with us. To smirk in life, let's just pick up with him, guess in story. We'll be left off.

Allen, taking O, a second time. Allen was arrested on Montreal at the airport. When he

landed, O, we're waiting to board a flight to London, without apparently Priscilla's knowledge. This time, Allen went to jail. But no, this arrest, and what Allen did to get himself arrested, weren't the things that shocked my family. We didn't exactly act like Allen's arrest was normal. We acted like it was absurd. I entertain my friends with stories of my serial kidnapper cousin. Then I kept the family updated, but over dramatic notes on the Facebook family chat. And at least one

video, from Canada, in which Allen, wearing a striped uniform, sings her Russian prison song. It looked like a cartoon. Allen spent a couple of weeks in Canadian detention, then another few weeks in a jail

in Upstate New York, and was finally released on his own reconnaissance to wait trial at Massachusetts.

he sent out a miss of the family chat. A self-important as the one that began this whole story.

This time, he was telling us that he and Priscilla had resolved their battle, which actually turned out to be true. They would now have shared custody of both kids.

“Allen said he was very pleased. "I thought my God, did you have to go through all this,”

absconding with your son twice, keeping him separator from his mother for more than two years, just to arrive at a standard 50/50 custody agreement? This, child support and shared custody, is the boring end of this crazy story? I felt a little relieved and a little dumb,

like maybe I'd bought two fully into other people's grammar.

Kidnapping charges against Allen were pending, they would later be dropped, and still, Priscilla was able to reach a peace agreement with Allen. After all he'd apparently put her and their son through him. Well, maybe this was just the way they took things, with extreme flare. Then it happened. The same. The bomb that went off in the middle of my family. So the day before, Allen called me and said that he promised his keys to take them a camping.

July 2022. Under the new custody arrangement, it was Allen's weekend with the kids. He asked my dad, "Hey, do you mind if me, my mom and the kids camp out in your backyard on Cape Cot?" I said, "Of course." So they came. They brought some huge, huge tent,

they never saw such a tent. Before with a lot of furniture, lights, and devices.

Solar charges, rug's two full mattresses, a treasure trunk with treasures, I guess. It was very Allen. Awesome spectacular, ridiculous. The later it occurred to me that this time, at least,

“there may have been a point to this. He wanted everyone to remember his camping trip to my father's”

backyard. Because of a summer, my father's house was full. Two of my younger brothers, one of them with his girlfriend, were there. Everyone had a nice dinner together, and then went to bed. Some people in the house, and Allen, Liana, and the kids in the tent. And then around six the next morning, the dog, Alten, started going nuts. Some was banging on the front door. So I opened the door a bit, because not to let Alten out, also I didn't put my trousers on yet. And

the guy, the policeman said, "We are state police. Could you step out with your phone?" My dad has surprised, but he's not panicking. He goes to get his pants and his phone. But by the time, because of all this noise and commotion and Alten's barking, Alusher woke up, Alusher is my cousin's Russian diminutive. Allen, and he came to the house to see what is going on. And police figured out that

they are looking for him and not for me. If the eye agents go around the house, banging on doors, and make everyone sit down on the carriages in the living room. No one understands what's going on. But soon, through the picture windows that look out on the backyard, they see two male FBI agents take Allen away in handcuffs. Then a female agent escorts the kids to another car. They all drive off.

State troopers follow. Liana leaves too. And did you know what once everybody left? Did you have any idea of what he had been arrested for? Not immediately, but then I learned

“from Liana about that. She was totally lost, but the only thing she knew that was in this paper.”

Well, that he's arrested for, I didn't, I don't remember. But murder for higher was there. Yes. And did you have any idea who he might have hired somebody to murder? You didn't take long. It was Priscilla. Allen had hired someone to kill Priscilla. It was evil. It was true or not. That's another story. Some of us took the news and faster than others. The day after Allen's arrest,

which identified the target only as P.C. I was saying that it was obviously Priscilla, whose last time begins with a C. He was saying that it was obviously not Priscilla. Liana kept telling everyone that Allen had been set up by business rivals or Russian agents or the FBI for someone. But over the course of a few days, it sank in. My cousin had been caught hiring someone to murder his ex-wife, the mother of his children. This was when it felt like we snapped. I

certainly snapped. I was shocked at how shocked I was. It's not that I felt bad for Allen or Liana is just how does something like this happen? How had it happened right here in my family in between our silly dinners and chess games and kids birthday parties? In theory, I knew that this kind of thing

could happen in any family. Anyone's first cousin could be plotting murder. Upstanding citizens

“are always turning out to be secret criminals, and I wouldn't even call Allen an upstanding citizen.”

But it's one thing to know and another thing to understand. I'm a reporter. At some of the hardest times of my life, like when I faced a biomedical diagnosis, I put on my reporters' hat and asked everyone a lot of questions. It has allowed me to rap my mind around unthinkable things before. Allen was in jail, a waiting trial, so my project had to begin with Priscilla, who was thankfully alive. Which it told me was so much worse than what I thought

I knew. That's next time. From serial productions and the New York Times, M.M. Gesson,

and the Sustated. Okay, so that is the first episode of your new podcast,

the Idiot. Does Allen know the name of the show yet? You know, um, I mean, obviously, there are some parts of that title that might be appealing to Allen. It's reference to a classic

“work of Russian literature. That's just me. It's not about the Idiot. So, um, and I think there's”

a little bit of kindness in that title. I think that I'm giving him the grace of of perceiving what he did is just an incredibly dumb thing and not only a very scary mean and evil thing. And also he's very lucky that he was bad enough at trying to hire a killer that everyone and then is alive and he's serving only 10 years sentence. Yeah. So, so after that you begin reporting it, as you say at the end of episode one, you start with Priscilla. What happens?

I don't really met Priscilla a couple of times in my life, but I didn't know her. I just knew she was this sort of beautiful, poised woman who'd been through hell at this point and had come to the US to try to get custody back of her child. But I didn't know how the story had unfolded for her. So let me play an excerpt from that conversation. I started with something that had

“mystified me for a long time. So, can you tell me what you saw in Allen when you first met it?”

Wow, I think like most people that meet him, the first time you meet him, he's very charismatic.

This was 2011. At the party in Harari, the capital of Zimbabwe, Allen was there in business, scoping out investment opportunities for Ukrainian oligarch. It was hustling. As my son described him once, he was an egg who knows how to talk to people. And did that seem appealing? It did. I'll be honest. I was 30. When I met him, it seemed very appealing. And it was like very different from anybody that I had met. So different was interesting. He came from a very

different part of the world, which I knew nothing about, which was also exciting and its own regard. It wasn't just exciting. It was convenient in a way. Allen wasn't readable to Priscilla the way someone from Zimbabwe might be. She could project her desires onto him, including her desire for success. Priscilla was working at a new lifestyle magazine and had launched the Bobby's annual fashion week. She wanted a life that was big and fast, like Allen's. And it's true that Allen seemed to know how

to make big, fast money and spend it. It's like, oh, let's go to Jorberg. I'm like, okay, you can get up and you go. Just like at the drop of the hat and then we would go here and there and here and there. So it was very exciting. The only strange thing that happened at the beginning of our relationship

and should raise a giant red flag, but somehow never do. My aunt layle like him to visit a few

months into their relationship. She had joined Allen and Priscilla on a trip to the countryside.

“We went on a trip to Cariba. It's a big lake in Zimbabwe. And I think it was like on the second”

day or something. We had a disagreement like a fight. And he left our room and I didn't know that he had done this, but he went to his mom's room. And I found him later. I was walking past her room and she had like these doors that opened outside. I just looked in and I saw him like lying on her bed and she was like lying there like stroking his hair. I found that I will. He's head. I found that's so weird. I was like, wow, this is a grown man. And like it seemed a little too

intimate. For me, like in my culture, I guess maybe because we're very distant. You don't even hug. Like you wouldn't hug your father because that's it's a little too intimate. So for an adult to be

“lying on his mother's bed and for her to actually be, it just seemed very peculiar. I saw that”

and I was like okay. And as the series unfolds, Lena and Alan's relationship is one of the things that you talk about more. Did you talk to Lena for the story? I didn't. She didn't want to talk to me. And so you're interviewing Priscilla. And the stories that she's telling you,

you knew kind of the basic plot points of the first time they took O the second time they took O.

What did you learn that you hadn't known? So, you know, now I realize that knowing those two plot points, which were two and a half years apart, is a little bit like knowing the date the war began and the date the war ended. And like I didn't know about all the carnage that had happened in between. At first she was stranded in Moscow. She didn't really have any way to support herself in Moscow. She is a Zimbabwe woman who doesn't speak Russian. And that dragged

on for months. And then she got back to Zimbabwe. She thought she was getting back to her regular life from which she was going to try to make it to the US to get O back. And then things just start happening to her and Zimbabwe. She gets beaten up by thugs. She gets picked up and drug charges. She gets picked up again and thrown to prison for two weeks. And she thinks that Alan is behind all of this. Alan denies that had any involvement. And then eventually, like she goes through

all of this and she eventually gets to the United States, right? She eventually gets to the United States. She, um, it doesn't mean that she's going to get custody even visits with her son.

Because at this point, it's been two and a half years. But, but she does get to see him for the first

time since he was taking from her. Wait, and so now he's hallowed. So now he is, like, eight years old. So she's from five to eight. She hadn't seen him. And also, she doesn't know what his grandmother and his father have been telling him about her. Yeah, let's play an excerpt of this part of the episode. So this is Priscilla explaining about seeing her son for the first time after that two year absence. One just to see him for the first time. I saw him that weekend on the Sunday for the first time.

It was, it's so strange. I almost can't remember how I felt. I know I didn't cry. I couldn't cry. I think I just looked at him. I just stared at him for a while.

“Can you describe that meeting? I mean, you had to meet outside. I think, right?”

We met at a little T-house in the town where Alan was living. Concured is called Concured T-cakes, actually. So he was sitting outside. I saw him sitting there and he was sitting by himself. Alan was inside the shop. When I, when I approached him, I could actually see that he was shaking. He just seemed so small and so scared. What had her little boy been thinking for the past two years? Why did he think his mother wasn't with him? What had Alan told him?

Oh, knew that Priscilla had been in prison. What other stories about her had taken hold in his mind? And I kind of felt, I felt helpless in a way, you know? I just said hi. I didn't try to touch him

come to me. Do you remember anything he said to you? He asked me for this porridge that he used to like, like it kind of he had loved it since he was a baby. And he called it blue porridge. He just said to me, did you bring blue porridge? I said, yeah. They make it in some other, and I had carried it with me. He asked me to make it for him, like immediately. Then I did like in a little cup with warm water. I made it for him and he ate it.

“And yeah, I knew that he would slowly remember me and things would get back to where they were.”

If he could remember simple things like that. Yeah. You know, that was just so hard-breaking to listen to and to imagine. Yeah.

And then you also talked about the second time Alan and I take the one for which he was

charged with kidnapping. Yeah, so this is this scene at the Montreal airport where they think they're going to board a flight to London instead Alan gets arrested. And it had been reduced to this ridiculous story that Lana told in this over the top way. And I would quote from her wacky Facebook messages to close friends. Yeah. And hearing this story from Priscilla's perspective, which is really owes perspective just how absolutely terrifying it was for him. He's a little boy. That's that's his

dad who gets tackled by several armed uniformed men and thrown to the ground. He gets dragged off. Oh, gets taken into foster care for two days before Priscilla can come and pick him up. And you know, and again, she separated from him. Like it's the distance, it's the international border, it's just just the pain of it is kind of unbearable. Yeah. And so then another thing that you did in your reporting is that you went to Alan's trial for attempted murder. So the trial didn't

happen for another 10 months, which was pretty normal. It's in federal court in San Francisco.

“So I went to the trial. And by that point, I think I fully believed that Alan had taken out a”

hidden Priscilla. I sort of tried and convicted him in my mind. But I think most other members of my family, including Priscilla, were kind of waiting for something to emerge during the trial that would make it easier to take, something that would make it seem like not such a horrible thing. Like maybe it wasn't true or maybe it was true in some way that wasn't quite so bad, which I can't imagine would be. And I'm not sure they could either, but there was sort of holding

out hope that something would explain it away. Did you go to Alan's trial partly to convince your family of his go? Absolutely. I have to say that makes this podcast so different from any

podcast I've ever heard that it has this second mission in addition to the mission of what

got to find out the truth of what happened. It's it's so directed at your at your family to like

“nail this down so everybody can agree on the truth. Well, it's important in a family to have”

a common truth, especially about your relatives, but you know, it got weirder as it went on. Okay, so let's just take a break and when we come back, we'll go to the trial, which includes recordings of Alan arranging for the hit, which feel I have to say way less like the sopranos and way more like parks and rack. All of that will be in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues. It's a American life, I'm our guest. Today's program,

the idiot, we're playing excerpts from M. Guessens, a new podcast, a new serial podcast called

the Idiot and M is here with me. And then so now we get to an incredible part of the story,

which is the trial because for the first time, I'm not sure you get to hear the details of how Alan arranged for the hit on his own wife and you actually get to hear the undercover recordings of Alan meeting with the supposed hitman, who's actually an FBI agent and just to say why was this FBI man meeting with Alan in the first place? So this is something that began as a money laundering investigation into this guy named Alex Kisilov who was one of Alan's business

but also maybe connected to the government. Somehow it's not clear what he thinks the guy is.

So the business partner asks them to help Alan out because Alan has a problem with his ex-wife.

“And that's how we get to this meeting between Alan and the undercover who is going by the name David.”

And so Alan thinks that he is meeting with David to arrange to bribe a government official to get pricillate reported. This is UCE 4735 and today is Thursday June 2nd, 2022. It's approximately 11.55 a.m. and this is a recording with Alan Gesson. The meetings take in place at the Boca Raton Resort Boca Raton for a minute. David has told Alan to meet him at the Boca Raton in Boca Raton. You know those places that added the to the name of the actual place to indicate

that it's everything you ever imagined but so much more. This resort has 19 bars and restaurants

and four beach options. The Boca Raton. Alan drives up in a white rental car and I would

see Dan, the jury was shown surveillance photos. He meets David in the lobby which is like an Italian castle, Florida version. David is wearing a wire. Which is you're about to hear is not

“great for field recording. Yeah, Alan. Sorry, Alan. Are you all right? Are you doing?”

If this bump Alan is wearing what looks like a black cashmere sweater. David is dressed on old black, Polish shirt, shiny pointy black shoes. They're not dressed for Florida. Everyone around them is wearing light colors but they're dressed to perform their roles. Alan is being International Man of Mystery. David is going full Mafioso. They're Macho. They're gangsters. They're the Alan and the Dave at the Boca Raton.

They take a shuttle to one of the Boca Raton's restaurants. The Marisol. We're the seating is couches in earth towns and the views beat umbrellas as far as the eye can see. On the way, Alan summarizes his very impressive career. 2010, I started a massive diamond mining project in South Africa. He's sued to Kongan,

“Gola, and maybe it's the head of several millions of dollars. Some is adventures and a try”

on for two later. Alan gets to the story of his marriage. But they went to Zimbabwe once to explore some opportunities there. And met this incredible, beautiful woman, which was the end of me.

That's for sale. Yeah, I'll always say it's the pitches that I'll get you.

David testified on court that the character he was playing was "crass". He seemed to have that part down. At the restaurant, it's David's turn to talk about how impressive a middle he is. We have a lot of business in South America. I'm sure Alex has told you. So, you know, my clients are in Cartagena, they're all going to tell you right now.

They're all cartel-level guys. They're all bad asses. They're real deal. When I talk, they don't have a fuck you money. They have a fuck everyone. You're talking hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't touch the product side. I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to fucking do it with the fucking coke. I don't want to do anything with any of that shit.

But I just do the money stuff. I set up companies and we'll wander money. And that's it. And it's been great. I've been doing it for 15, 20 years. Having established their gangster bonafights, Allen on the undercover talk business. There are two items on the agenda. The bulletproof vest factory, Allen wants to build and persona.

Look, I understand, you know, through Alex that you have, some problems, you know, I get it. You know, we have a solution for you. But I guess the question is, like, in a perfect world, tell me what you want. Tell me what you like. And there's a blank slate. Just tell me what you want. Allen says he wants to pursue the deported. He needs this for peace of mind.

And he will be as a thumb in the rest. Okay. All right. It doesn't want her to quote, "be able to come and harass us every again." He then explains what he means by harass. A few months earlier, Priscilla had the nerve to tell the police that he had kidnapped O. But he had, in fact, been arrested for taking O across the border to Canada and spent five weeks in jail and was now waiting trial on kidnapping charges.

He tells David, let's just say that I'm a little bit pissed off.

Women, am I right?

“Yeah, I'm telling you, man. Yeah, like I said, you know, historically, over time,”

men have made the worst decisions. You know, when it comes to women, you know, it's, uh, I don't know what it is, there are that an academia, you know, it's that weakness or a killee seal. But uh, yeah, I understand it. I wish I had to know you earlier, because, you know, what that shit, we could have cleaned up, you know, and there's no doubt about that.

Which is for this way. That would never have happened in my family.

Amid all this broy gangstree hot air, the vaguest outlines of a plan appear. A bribe will be paid. Some government officials will pull some strings, and Priscilla will be ordered to leave the country. And it will cost $100,000. At first, Allen seems taken aback by the price tag. Okay, well, you know, um, I need to catch that, but I don't know.

Okay, a crew could not handle the materials side of things, okay.

“Uh, because he never mentioned to me, and he, like, he didn't mention me that he didn't think.”

Kisilov didn't discuss the money without any experience, but he quickly recovers from this took a shock. The price is eminently reasonable. Okay, but what it's worth, I mean, though there is no question that it's, uh, right, it's food investment. Right. Um, a good investment. Allen's done the math. Hit pay more in child support.

I'll pay more in child support. Oh, yeah, you would. Yeah, I can get it. After everything Priscilla had gone through to get to the US to see her son again, Allen was going to send her back to Zimbabwe. After everything O had gone through, being separated from his mother for two and a half years, meeting her again, watching his father get arrested, going to live with his mother in

a sister he barely knew. Allen was going to yank him away from Priscilla again. And he was going to deprive L, who was three of the only parents she had ever known. All for the eminently reasonable price of $100,000. And we hadn't given gotten to the murder for higher plot yet. On the tape, Allen and David move on to the details of the bullet-proof vest factory scheme.

This part of the conversation goes a little less smoothly. Allen headed all figured out that get you as government funding and build a factory, and he thought David was in a position to get him that money. David though is much more interested in the bribe part. In court, he testified that he went to the meeting expecting to talk about the deportation scheme,

not the factory. But he is nimble. It tells Allen that he could bring in money from the Colombian drug cartels to invest in the factory.

“Remember, they have been trying for years to get Kaselev and now Allen on money laundering.”

But Allen isn't really incriminating himself. He actually expresses some concerns about the drug money. After an hour or so, the conversation turns back to Priscilla.

Allen says, quote, "The first order of business is to get her the fuck out of here."

And quote, "To get Priscilla deported." Or, "And this is where he suddenly, of handedly, turns the conversation in a different direction." This is the heart of the prosecution's case. Let's listen carefully. Yeah. I've been in prison. I've been in prison. I've been in prison. If there is a cheaper way to get rid of her.

I mean, I have family in your area. Remember, David is supposed to be a Mafioso. That's the kind of family he's talking about. A minute later, he will refer to friends in the North End. Historically, an Italian neighbor had embossed him. He's opening for Allen at door to the underworld. So, I don't know how to say this, but there is a cheaper way and probably a more permanent way to do it.

A more permanent way. In Kaselev, Allen didn't understand what David was getting at. Is that? Yeah. I mean, that's up to you. Allen would like to proceed. The time, the lapses between the agents saying that's up to you.

An Allen's agreement to proceed with the more permanent option is a fraction of a second.

He doesn't take a breath. He doesn't pretend to consider the decision. He doesn't double check that he understood the agent correctly. He doesn't even ask how much money he'll save by going for the cheaper option. He jumps right in with both feet. And then it gets worse. Allen says that he had looked into this more permanent option before.

That he talked to his railies and Eastern Europeans in Italians, and the lowest estimate he got was 220,000 dollars. The prosecutor stopped the tape and repeated what Allen had said. I researched my sources. The lowest price was 220.

She asked the undercover agent, but he had understood Allen to be saying.

The agent answered, "My understanding was that Mr. Gesson had already researched the option to kill his wife and had been in conversation or had done some research with other organized crime syndicates in this case as railies or Eastern Europe for the price of 220,000 dollars." The agent who had worked on murder for higher cases before testified in court that it is cheap. He had seen people agree to kill someone for his little as 200 dollars.

On the tape David assures Allen that his friends in the north end are more dependable and affordable than those other guys. The Israelis are the Eastern Europeans.

And as they can get the job done quickly, Allen likes this and he clarifies more definite.

The prosecutor asked, "When you heard Mr. Gesson say and more definite, what was your understanding of that?" The agent answered, "More definite is permanent, dead." I'd seen if the agents testified in court before. Often I've been skeptical. There are interpretations of what people say to them can be far-fetched. Their entrapment techniques are often crude and mendacious.

I think cases where the undercover agent talks a person into a crime they had no intention of committing. But this was different. I couldn't imagine any alternative interpretation of the tape

it just heard. Allen wanted Priscilla killed and he wanted David to know that he wanted Priscilla

killed. He said that with the briaries' game he was worried that Priscilla could fight her deportation in court and maybe even win. Murder is better than deportation that way. That's, that's, we can, we can handle that. I just didn't know what your appetite for that was, but if you feel that way and we can make that happen, it will be very clean, it'll be quick, and it will be final. But you've got to tell me if that's the route that you want to do.

“This was the only thing that gives Allen pause. It doesn't want the kids to see their mother”

getting killed. No, no, no, no. God, God does the police. No, no, no. We're all family men like this. This is strictly business. This is like, because it's a simple thing. It's a bit of a little bit. You know, it was that I wanted to make sure that you like wherever you go. No, no, no, no, no. No, this would be, it's would be very clean, professional job. We assured Allen asks about the cost. I think it's probably half the cost, so you choose. Yeah, much easier. Much easier. Okay. Oh,

you don't have to agree with it. Okay. Very happy to proceed with it. What a productive meeting for the undercover agent. He came for bribery and was leaving with murder for hire. Now he just needed Allen to confirm that he intended to go through with it, so that when Allen eventually went to trial, he couldn't say that he was misunderstood. And now here we were at that trial, listening to and looking at all the times and all the ways Allen said that yes, he really meant it.

“He wanted Priscilla killed. What you have to be sure that this is when you're okay. This is the first time.”

The agent asks Allen if he is sure. And Allen says, I'm sure. And he adds, I'm sure. And this doesn't mean we're like, oh, no, no, no reaction. This sounds like it's been well thought out. Listen, yeah. I, I, I, I didn't want it. I'm glad we talked about it because that's honestly, that's the way I would handle it. But that's the got you got to be comfortable. All right. Okay. Good. All right. Allen says that this is not an emotional decision. Not spurred the moment.

He's comfortable with it. Sometimes they dig a wrong file and pray. Right. Yeah. Don't fuck with me. There's a bit more back and forth. David will need pictures of Priscilla, location, everything for the people who do the job. And then just like that, Allen is showing David pictures of the kids. Oh, what's the name? I'm a daughter. You're about to go gorgeous. Why don't you give me a week for the, yeah, gorgeous.

Under, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful life. The only problem is Priscilla. Surely after seeing these photos, David would see what a great father Allen was. Surely he would feel even better about helping Allen get rid of the fly in the

“ointment. But David has a question. What is this going to do to the kids emotionally?”

How do we protect the kids? Like, I guess they're too young too. They're young too. But how do we protect the kids? Well, they're going to lose their mother, right? She's fucking young. And

used. Violence. No, no, no. They won't think that. Yeah, they won't think. I mean, she'll be, she'll be

“taken out without them present. And I guess you can explain it, I just explain it, but just know that,”

you know, like, I, now that I'm seeing pictures of that, I just want to make sure that they're okay. I got a heart too. You know, like, I fucking don't get me wrong. I'll put the light switch when I need to. But, you know, when I look at those kids like that, you know, they're beautiful. I just want to make sure they're okay. You know, the undercover agent is methodical. He keeps coming closer to saying she will be killed. And he keeps pushing Allen to consider the hypothetical

stakes. The children will lose their mother forever. Allen blindly keeps incriminating himself. As long as the kids wouldn't see the murder happen, he didn't have other concerns. They wrap up their meeting. Allen has a plane to catch. The undercover agent has a lot to work with. This is UC for set 4735. And today is Thursday, June 2nd, 2022. And this is the conclusion of a recorded conversation with Allen Gesson.

So that all sounds very damning and very conclusive. Yeah. And then a few other people testified against Allen, including Priscilla. And then Allen took the stand, which is also very unusual for a criminal trial. Usually people don't testify in their own defense. And he tried to convince the jury that he had only wanted Priscilla deported in that he did not want her killed. And so he went through with his attorney. All those

exchanges on tape and on text trying to argue that all of them were just the cabinet misunderstandings. And that they were just misunderstanding each other somehow. They were just talking at cross purposes. And so has a gover with the jury. The jury doesn't buy it. The jury convicted him pretty fast

of murder for hire. And then almost a whole year later, he was finally sentenced.

And the sendencing hearing his lawyer again tried to say that he was only trying to get Priscilla deported. It wish once the judge said, you know, that prime that you're describing is actually called kidnapping and it's punishable by up to 20 years in prison. So maybe just stop. And then she sent it to the maximum, which is 10 years of prison. And there's this whole other chapter to the story, because once he was incarcerated, you started talking to Allen. You finally talked

to Allen, which I feel like when we started on the story, we didn't even know if that would

ever happen. We assumed he probably would never talk to you. Yeah, I can't even describe how excited

it was when I got an email from him saying that he was happy to talk. And it was interesting because once you started talking, I remember this so vividly, you were genuinely surprised where the conversations went and how they nudged your own ideas about Allen and who he is. So at first it didn't. At first he was just trying to sell me what the jury didn't buy,

“which was that he was framed, if he was only trying to get priscilla deported. But then I think”

we both proved to be very stubborn. And I was like, okay, well, you know, maybe his job was to try to bullshit me. And my job is to try to cut through the bullshit. And 35 hours of conversations later, and genuinely felt compassion for him. And then you ran by Allen and you had for the audience to your own theory of the case, which is not Allen's theory, and not exactly the undercarriage and David's theory either. And we will leave it at that if people want to hear what that theory

is, then they need to listen to the show. The show again is called The Idiot. It's from serial productions in the New York Times. And you can get it wherever you get your podcasts. Nice to thank you so much for doing this. Thank you, Larry.

“I'll just say before we go to all of you who are listening, you may remember how serial productions”

basically invented and watched the true crime podcast genre. Back in 2014 with its first season

and the story of Adnan Sayed, which is kind of a global phenomenon. 20 million people downloaded

every episode. This new show, The Idiot, takes your way back to the true crime moods. But with this very personal story from EndGuesson added to it, which adds so much. All the episodes are out right now.

The Idiot was produced by Daniel Geetmet with Fia Benin and Andre Boyzenko with League of

“Cremor of Lebo-Lebo Studios. The series was edited by Julie Snyder, a research in fact checked”

by Ben Feilin and the research rovers the texture, scoring by Alison Hayton Brown with additional music and Dan Powell, and Marianne Lissano. Feed you lying and Catherine Anderson makes the show.

“The people who helped put together this episode of our program today include Cassie Howe,”

Seth Land, Tobin Glow, Stone Nelson, and Alyssa Ship, a managing editor of Saurop, Duramin, or Senior Editor David Kestembaum, or Executive Editor, Emmanuel Barry. Our website thisamericanlife.org. We can stream our archive of over 850 episodes for absolutely free. Have

“you visited. Again, thisamericanlife.org. This American Life is a little bit of public radio stations”

by PRX, the public radio exchange. Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Tory Malatia.

You know, he's time me this week, but this time long go. His dad took him to see the circus and queens in New York, as they left the venue. He overheard another kid. This kid with a puff of blonde hair,

just amazed. They brought some huge, huge synth, I never saw such a synth.

I'm Hara Glass. Back next week with more stories of this American life. [Music]