#676 - Billy Strings

His new album so much for goodbyes is out August 28th and he's on tour the rest of the year. You gotta go see him. If you can, you gotta see him live. We film this up in Grand Rapids, Michigan at Mac and All Harvest Studios. We want to thank Michael and his team over there for the hospitality. It was second to none. And so was this conversation, this is one of my favorite, one of my favorite chats ever.

So grateful for his time. Today's guest is Mr. Billy Strings. Dude, good to see you, man. Yeah, you too. It's awesome, bro. Yeah, thanks for coming through with the old stomping grounds, man. This is it, Grand Rapids. Yeah, glad to have you in Michigan.

I grew up, like, I don't know, half hour, 40 minutes away from here over in Ionia and Mewer. But yeah, Grand Rapids, we used to come over here a bunch when I was teenager and party and it's a good city. Would you guys come like on a, like a Saturday night, would like your proms be here, like, was it, like, that kind of place, or was it, like,

was this, like, going to the city? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, never went to prom.

You didn't? No. I actually didn't want to. Yeah, I don't know. Were you like one of those kind of, like, anti, like, like, because there is something about prom that's kind of, like, established,

“I think, especially when you're in high school, kind of. Yeah, yeah, just wasn't my vibe.”

And I had a girlfriend at the time and really pissed her off that I didn't want to go. I think she ended up going with, like, dealing young stream or something. No, oh, yeah, dealing freaking young stream. Yeah. What the heck, dude? Either way. Well, I was in band with him. Do you could even make first care? I know. Yeah. Fuck. That's crazy, dude. Yeah, she was pissed, but I understandably so I, like,

what kind of, like, what an asshole thing. Like, no, I'm not going to go, like, whatever. Later on, like, man, I was a real dick. Yeah. But what was a reason behind it? You don't see like, you got that, doesn't have it, like, a reason in kind of behind it. That's a promise. I just don't want to go dress up and I don't really dance. And what, they're not going to be playing good music anyways. And yeah, yeah. It's kind of like,

seems like not my scene, you know? Yeah, I think it's hard to go from kind of like, picking like to the window to the wall, you know, to the sweat comes off off the balls. You know? Yeah. That's kind of. It's kind of crazy that that's the music that we, like, feed to the kids, like, from the window to the wall to the sweat comes off the balls or whatever.

“I remember that was always on, like, need for speed back in the day, the video game.”

And yeah, it's crazy how nostalgic that music is. Not like, all that, like, Rick Ross and young GZ and stuff like that. It's like, you hear that and it brings you right back to, like, those parties. Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah, there was just something about, like, all the young parties do when you would show up at a party, bro. And like, somebody had like a fence on this how the house you would open the fence and go back into the party or go into the house party.

And somebody's just parents were, unfortunately, out of town, like, all they done is like, driven to see your mom's sister, like, two towns over and they had no idea that their insurance was at risk. Yeah, around here. I mean, I think everywhere, kids are partying, but around here,

it's just nothing better to do. Oh, no. So yeah, we always just, all that's all that life was about.

It's like, where's the party at? Yeah, dude. And then there's something that you would just drive around and look for a party. And for like four hours, and people would just make up parties. Dude, I, I would always make up parties over. Dude, there's a party. It's like seven miles out that way. And people would fucking drive out there. And we would just sit there, like, yarn and things, or whatever, like, in the parking lot and just die laughing, just knowing that, like,

everybody was headed out to some invisible fiesta. Yeah. Um, man, I missed those, uh, those days, though, like, I look back on it now and everybody, like pulls all their cars into a field and burning pallets and just, like, you know, somebody's got a kayak and it, like,

around here, I always ended up in a fight at the end of the night. It would be like,

once people got drunk enough and then somebody finally would, it would pop off and then it would, like, the whole place would just erupt and everybody would be fighting. Yeah. That happened all the time.

“Oh, yeah, dude. I think it's half to end either, like, in a fight or dessert. I feel like,”

like, that's kind of the American way. Dude, our ship was somebody would always, some fucking, some little, like, summer school junky would throw a, like, a WD40 bottle into the fire. Oh, yeah. That's a good move. And then it would just be, it would be like 30 seconds of, like,

And that was always, that was always kind of how it went. Did you guys have some people in

town, do you guys have any, like, characters in town that were, like, sort of, like, like, local celebrities in the sense like that was, like, the guy in town that was, like, this thing or something? Yeah, a lot of those different cats and for different reasons, you know, one of my dear friends, Darren Page, he's no longer with us, but he was, like, super popular, you know,

“good looking dude. I think he was, like, on the football team and everything and”

everybody loved him, you know, and he got into, like, drugs and shit and it's sort of drug them down. It was weird to see because, like, you know, it was kind of like the kids that were from a more stable family, maybe would go down the wrong path and they wouldn't necessarily know how to handle it. Where I come from, like, a family that was, like, full of drugs and I've

always been real careful, you know, because I saw it, but I think kids that were more, like,

sheltered or something, sometimes those are the kids that were, like, end of overdosing or, you know, going to prison or just, like, taking it way too far. Yeah. Yeah, they get loose. It's like, suddenly like, they had no cookies and suddenly they get, they just want it in a damn, you know, they just want to, like, get in the keybler's tree or whatever, you know. And then this and they're good and bro. Yeah, and then there was a folks that were, you know, famous for

“other reasons. There was this guy, one of my best friends ever. He's also dead from an overdose,”

Kevin Clayton. One of the craziest motherfuckers I've ever known in my life, dude, just absolutely nuts and hilarious and would, what he, well, like, how is he funny? Just, he was just funny. He was just

funny man. He was always like, you know, just trying to get high and he would go to like, jail or something

and get out and go back to the same old shit and he, like, you know, he's just a fun person party with he was nuts. Yeah. He was always like, come on, bro, let me get 50 bucks. I want to go boot a coop, you know, and he was like, one of the first people I ever smoked with and stuff in a boot a coop. Yeah, that means, like, bang an oxy. Oh, dang. Yeah. I thought him in good, out on some body. Come on, bro. Let me get 50 bucks. I want to boot a coop and I was fucking nuts, dude. One time,

we were at, uh, over at my mom's house and it was when that game skate had just came out on Xbox, the first skate and I was just like me and Kevin and my brother and another friend of mine and, uh,

“I wasn't drinking. I was just, I didn't feel like it that night. I was just hanging out. I just”

wanted to play my video game and so I got this brand new Xbox and I'm sitting there playing and, um, fucking, Kevin and my brother. They got this for some reason they had a mountain do bottle full of Southern comfort and like a bunch of other shit, but they were drinking this full two liter of fucking soco. Don't ask me why it was in the two liter bottle, but it was and then, uh, so as the night went on, they got more and more hammered and Kevin come up to me and I'm sitting on the couch and

he put his arm around my neck and he kind of put me in a headlock and I was like, dude, stop. Like, I'm not in the mood, you know. Yeah, I hate when people do that. Yeah, sometimes I don't like it's around the holidays or something. We're going to get something afterwards, but if they're just doing it for never reason, I don't like it anyway. But yeah, he was all drunk and, you know, uh, put me in a headlock like this and I'm like, dude, stop. You know, I'm not in the mood.

And he fucking squeezed harder. So I'm like, dude, stop. And then I'm like, fuck, I just start hitting them. And I'm hitting them like this and we kind of break up and then, uh, like, I'm sitting there on the couch and he kind of tries to go at me and my brother is like, right there, he's like, that's my little brother. You're not going to fuck with him and Kevin tries to get up off the couch. Every time Kevin got up, my brother grabbed him by the face and sat him back down. So then Kevin

swung at my brother and, uh, they started fighting and they, they were going from one into the house to the other and I was moving furniture and everything. I was like, you know, because they're going to tear my mom's house. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, bad fight happened. You got to get the shift row about it air. Yeah, that's the first one we got to move that dinner table. All that. And then they'd go, I'd move that and then they'd go to another room. Anyways, they knocked my Xbox clean over

those little AV cable stuck right in the TV and broke off, you know, like damn, I can't play my game anymore. So they ended up Kevin ended up on top of my brother like this and just hitting him and I watched my brother's eyes closed and his head just started, I'm like, dude, he's done. Like, he's done. He's knocked out and he kept hitting him. And so I just picked up this full 22-ounce steel reserve and I hit Kevin in the head and I, I knocked him and the bottle didn't break.

It just went, don't. And then he's going, and then they're both sitting there laying there knocked

And then, did you think you killed him? I don't know, I heard him. He was snoring and grunting.

And then, yeah, and then so my brother woke up, he was like, you fucking killed him. And, uh, and I'm like, dude, this is crazy. And, and then Kevin woke up and he's all disoriented and he's like, he's like, what the fuck? He's like, what the fuck was I doing? And then he sees my brother and he's like, I was kicking your ass and they just went right back at it. Dude, I got the hell out of there. I was like, fuck, you guys can fucking kill each other. I don't care. So one of my friends

picked me up. We went down to, uh, over to my friend Benji's house. So whatever, but then Kevin, he fucking left my house, uh, that night from my mom's place and me were all the way to his place

“out, out on like stage road or something, uh, or nickel play. I can't remember, but it was a long-ass walk,”

seven miles in the blizzard and he fucking, he walked all the way there and one of his shoes and one of my brother's shoes. And then, uh, and he called me, you know, I got to where I was and I went sleep and then five o'clock in the morning. I got a call from Kevin and then, uh, he just says, I'm like, fuck, answer it. It was his dad's home phone. Hello, and he just says, wait until I find you a little bitch. I'm going to beat your head into an oblivion and he hung up like God damn it.

Now Kevin's going to beat me up and then the next holds a grudge. Oh, yeah. He was not, dude. And then, uh, the next morning he called me and said, bro, I'm sorry. Let's go skate and then I met him down at the skate spot and he had a big old fucking goose egg like that sticking off his ball. That's head because he just had his head shape because he just went to boot camp and everything. It's like was a big, like, like, sometimes people get it in the head and then they look like they're like growing

“another head. It was like a cartoon show. It was like a, you know, big ass fucking goose egg right there,”

you know, like one of them, uh, I don't know on Looney tunes or so. Yeah, due to like that power slap you've seen that power slap thing. Oh my, why do people do that, dude? Dude, I don't know. Have you been to? Oh, yeah, I been there, dude. I've been there. It's, it's like, it's, I mean, to me, that just

seems so, like, dude, the crazy is part of it to me. Well, first of all, one time this guy had

had this big, uh, like he'd almost like sprouted another head kind of like like he was looking like he was going to be on Abby and Brittany. You know, or like, it's something like, you know, cut like a conjoined twins TLC type of thing, you know, and then somebody, and then he, yeah, look at he was like sprouting another head and somebody drawn another face on this big thing, that was growing up. So that was pretty dope. Dude, one time I saw a guy after the fights,

he was in the carpool line on my dude, you just, you were just like slapping like, like, I don't know if you're safe to just get into an Uber or whatever, you know, it was bananas, dude. But those people really love it. I think the thing about it is like, this one thing I learned about some sports, we may look at it like it seems insane, but it's just if somebody likes it. Yeah, there's that one new one where it's like people from Tonga or whatever or people from Hawaii

are just running at each other and hitting and like running right into each other. You see that one? Hmm, dude, you know what I'm talking about? Trevor? Yeah, it's just like, it's kind of like speed dating, I guess. Well, it's like, it's like, well, kind of reminds me of like jousting, I guess, right? Yeah, I mean, new sport unlocked. Yeah, this is what it is. Oh my god, he's like, ramman from Master of the universe. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, dude, this is the sport. I mean, that's like, the rams them big goats when they head

“buddy each other. Yeah, that's what these boys are doing. And it's like, bro, and they have women”

doing it too. But this is just what I started to realize was like, to the competitors, it's a sport. So it's like, that's where I kind of have started to meet sports. It's like, some things are like,

because at first for UFC, I was like, some of this, I don't know if I like, but now it's my favorite

because I realize those people, they just, it's their thing. Well, yeah, I mean, and I feel like there's at least, uh, you can defend yourself. You're not just sitting there being like, okay, hit me as hard as you can, getting like brain injuries, you know, or what's that like CTE or whatever CTE, everybody's got it, I guess, or some people have it. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, no, I mean, I put it like UFC. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I think it's just, it's a, it's like an ancient,

I mean, combat is, you know, nature's violent, I think, and it's like hand-to-hand combat is like one of the oldest things there is. It's the most like, you know, kind of like natural thing you can do set at some times, even though, you know, I'm not like all about violence or whatever but I'm just saying like, no, it's human. It's a, it's a great sport, you know, it's just kind of like, yeah, what's, what's more sport than two men, like, you know, or women or just two people like

going after each other and trying to kick each other's ass, you know? Yeah, it says here, wrestling is

and predates written history that earliest surviving depictions of organized wrestling date to ancient Egypt around time. I reckon it's sort of like them gladiators or something, you know? Oh yeah, bro. Like a modern day version of that. Yeah, dude. And then, you know,

it's not always, I mean, these people get hurt and sometimes, you know, there's crazy bloody

braels, like, you know, for a script and Stefan Bonner kind of fights, but then there's like, I saw you at the, at the paddy fight on TV, they showed you a little bit. I was watching that.

“Oh, you were? Yeah, you like choked that guy on like minutes. Everybody's okay. Yeah, you know?”

Yeah, there was quick. There was just like Kevin Clayton trying to do it to you and like, helps me. We've all got our own, like, you know what I'm saying? We all have like our own moment of attachment, a little thing. Yeah. But no dude, the craziest thing about the paddy thing was so usually the fighters come into the ring to have about a one minute inch or like probably a 30 second walk. And then there's like 30 seconds by the cage where they're checking them to make

sure that they don't have any knives or whatever. And then they let them go in. Yeah. But for paddy, they had to go, I believe, anyway, they had to go to a commercial break for Paramount. So he just had,

like, three minutes in his right with his music. Yeah. And they, I'd never seen that before. So he just

starts like just doing the, uh, he's got the whole place doing the baddy daddy. Yeah. And, uh, and the place just turned in like kind of a rave. It like, oh, yeah. That was the energy it needed. So by the

“time, his fight started, you know, why I think even if you were a fan of been watching the knee,”

you were suddenly a patty fan, it's because you've been doing his move. Yeah. He's vibing. Also, man, that's so dope. That is such a, what a, what a horse like to just be in that sort of mindset before like you know, you're going to fight just to be like dancing and happy and hyped like, you know, back when I was in high school or whatever and I was getting into fights, it was always a lot better if it just popped off all of a sudden and I wasn't expecting it.

The couple times where I was like, okay, meet me down here and we're driving down there and I know I'm going to get in the fight soon. That was like the worst, like the adrenaline and just, it was like, you know, it's like terrifying. Yeah. Because you know you're going to get into it soon. And you're building up it's all this extra energy and then you're like, yeah, people are giving you a strategy or whatever. It was a way once you get hit in the face. Yeah. Yeah. Dude,

some kind of wheelchair kept giving me strategy at a fight and I'm like, that's fine, dude. But it's like, you know, I'm saying, I'm happy to listen to you. But now it's just like, it was just too much at that moment. I was just like, God, this seems like not the best home.

“You know, my brother did. I was watching a fight with him. Who's that guy?”

Oh, I don't, I shouldn't say this. He'll kick my ass. Yeah, I don't know. We could not say it. My brother. My brother said it like that cat. Cosmaut guy, whatever. Oh, hamsock, you might have? Yeah. Yeah. I was watching a fight with him. My brother's like, they're my fucker. It looks like the Nutcracker. I was like, holy shit, dude. Bring it off.

That's pretty bad. Oh, wait. You know, I think it's Islam. Maybe looks a little, let me see. Oh, I think he has a Nutcracker type of beard. Yeah. Sean Strickland will protect us two to things get bad, but he does that. It's kind of a Nutcracker type of beard. Dude, you were talking about, uh, you were talking about, uh, uh, what happened to Kevin Clayton? Uh, he OD. He, he was a, you know, he struggled a lot with,

with substance abuse. He, he was into heroin and all sorts of shit. Man around that time, it was like, you know, meth was really kind of tearing everything up. There was a big, uh, epidemic, really. And then that oxy cotton, too. Everybody was robbing each other's grandma in shit and, you know, their own family members and stuff just to get them pills. And, uh, yeah, Kevin, he got into that stuff real bad. And I remember he was texting me, too, and

sending me messages online, rather, and saying, man, I, he knew it was coming. He was like, I'm losing control. And I was like, bro, you got to, you're the only one that can put your hands on the wheel and steer you yourself out of this, you know, and he's like, I can't, you know, and not much longer after that. I heard that he OD. He just, his, uh, step mom found him in the bathroom, like, foaming at the mouth and shit and it was terrible, man. But he was also, man, he was a

great skateboarder. He was just fearless. He would fling himself down these huge stair sets and not give a fuck if he got hurt. He was, he was just one of the nutty as people I ever met. And, um, like, I remember he got out of prison for like a couple years and he grabbed my heart, my, my skateboard

and did like a switch hard flip first try. It's like, you haven't skated in like years and you just

did a switch hard flip first try. Like, what, you know, he's just, he's crazy, man. Everybody around I own you that grew up in those years. Like, he's sort of a legend, you know, oh, yeah, dude, there's

area and people and you knew his name for like 40 miles dude and it was legendary. Dude, this guy

“was awesome. I'm going to say his last thing, just to protect his anonymity because, uh, but he had”

dude, he was just like, he was a legend when you were growing up, that's all you want to be and like, you may go to one high school football game and he would come out with the band and he was like the white guy and they gave him like this magic stick. You know, like this like, but Tom, yeah, yeah, but Tom, dude. But it was like the king, but Tom, it wasn't like the one that like there was

always that one girl in band who threw it up in the air and she had all like there's a really thick

glasses and you were like, that bitch is gonna like it. You know, saying that that thing's gonna take somebody's fucking wig off, you know? But, uh, but he, but he had like the biggest baton he would come out and he would just take it to another level bro and it was like, I don't know, you need heroes like that, you need like local legends, you need like, like, yeah, you need legends like that, just to build hype to be like, I want to be like that or just create stories in town. That was

always the best. Yeah, we had all. Oh, there's another smoothies. Let's bring them in. And we can do what's here is actually the cabin man. Oh, yeah. All right. Thank you. That's a grand rap. It's green, man. Oh, yeah. Thanks, dude. To a toast, man. Yeah. To Kevin bro. Kevin Clayton bro. Yeah.

“Yeah, dude. We had, trying to think, oh, I remember they had a guy in our town who's probably”

where kids who's probably 30 and he would ride on he had a bicycle, but he, it had a baby seat on the

back, right? And it was empty. And he was always riding around and and later on, I found out he was

um, he had like a, he had like, he had like some mental irregularities or whatever, but he, um, when we were kids, somebody said that he was, uh, he had married a man and that his husband, he had married a very small man and his husband had passed away. And so he'd ride around like just on this bike with this baby seat on the back and that's where his husband used to sit. And so we were kids, it was just this lower. And it was like, oh, man, that's a gay, like a gay gentleman that lost his

husband or whatever. And it was like this kind of like kind of romantic sad sort of thing. And he kind of pulled up and he'd always be in the distance of like all the ball games and everything. Whoa. He'd just be in the distance. He'd be like 40 yards away from everything. In fact, if he had a memoir, I'd call it 40 yards away from everything. Wow. And he would kind of sit over there and people would be like, dude, his husband passed away.

Years later, we found out it was like a kind of like a mentally, like a guy who had like some mental issues or whatever. And his mom had gotten him a bike and she just got him a bike that's still at a baby seat on it. But when you're a kid, you don't say that there's just like everything can have a little bit of magic in it, you know, and like it's like he's so exciting. Um, you're about this guy called mole man. mole man. He's in like Pennsylvania or something.

No, I never seen him with you know it. No, I don't know him. But dude, it's like this cat.

He's like lived with his parents and he just has been collecting like, I don't know stuff forever. And, and he's been building these like structures out in his mom's like backyard. Like in the there's like a documentary about him. And he's like built these tunnels and like all these like little house structures and stuff and he just lives out there. And so I don't remember how long I don't know how long ago the documentary was made. But in the in the film, they were kind of

worried about like what was going to happen to this cat when his mom passes away and it's the people somebody going to take his property or how's he going to keep doing this, but he's been here. Yeah, like man, he's a he's a wild cat. You ought to watch this film. Mole man dude. He's, you know, that's a local legend right there around his area for sure. Everybody's got to know about the mole man dude. Mole man. Let me see another gander at him. Oh hell yeah. Oh yeah.

He kind of is what he looks like he took a hit off a cigarette forever. You know what I'm saying? Fuck yeah. Mole man. That would probably be interesting person maybe to go talk to too.

“Yeah dude, you should try to link up with Mole man and see what see what he's all about. But he's”

he's built like several houses and what just in the backyard like and he'll just go say somebody's like tearing down their house. He'll go and grab like some of the windowsills and some of the old drywall and shit and he'll take it over to his place and he just stacks everything up. I don't even think it's like nailed together. See it's just it's just fucking all stacked up. Yeah. Damn that's just figuring it out. Yeah. He's like, I guess every since he was a little

kid. He's just like building stuff like that. It looks like one sneeze if I can remodel that thing though. You know what I'm saying dude. One afternoon at allergies and he's going to be living in a studio. That's wild looking though. But just like it almost is like dude.

things like a bird that makes a nest do when you see some of these bird nests they go in there and there's like all these little things that the bird has found from around the community that this put in there. Well like at my house out the back window there's a lot of like wildlife.

We have this little pond and so there's ducks and geese and they're always getting into it

and ground hogs and we got this little musk rat that swims across the, he's always got a big piece of grass in his mouth and he swims across the pond. He's cool with hell. But yesterday I was hanging out with my dad playing guitars and we saw two of them fucking affiliated woodpeckers flying across the you know right there and they went up on this tree and they're both doing that shit. It was like who are they affiliated with? Oh, they were out and what it wasn't mean affiliated.

“I don't know. I think they're probably in like the like a duet. They're like the in the cartel or”

something I reckon. Oh, that could be the damn new Brooks and Don dude. Yeah, that could be Dana's

shape. Who even knows what's going on anymore? Yeah, and they're just wait, do they do that? They come in pairs? I think it was a male and female. Oh, a couple. Yeah. Oh, she probably wanted to go on vacation or something and he probably didn't want to take her. Yeah, they were up there getting all of them larvae out of them out of that bark. Oh, it says whether you're yes, piliot, piliotied woodpeckers mate for life. They form permanent monogamous pair bonds

instead of gathering year-round and fixed home territories that they defend from other woodpeckers. If one partner dies, the surviving bird will find a new mate. You can learn more about their

“habits via the Cornell lab of Ornithology. Oh, they shit. So math crazy. What animals do that?”

Yeah, I saw something the other day. We're a fox. It's like some about like if a female fox dies, the herald man will just like not ever like get another lady. Oh, he's like he's just going to mourn his babe forever. That's honorable, huh? Yeah. But if like the male dies, the chicks just like f*** him. Welcome to Atlanta. You know, it's just changed so fast dude. It's that time. Price picks is America's number one sports picks app. The app is really easy to

use. For player picks, just pick more or less on a few player stats and lock in your lineup. That's it. Rather, just pick teams. Price picks has that now too. Just pick the winner, spread or total on any game or fight. Price picks is available in most states, including California,

“Texas and Florida. Plus, you can even follow me on the app at the oven. Tell my picks with one”

click and follow your friends too. Best of all, play your first $5 and get $150 in line-ups,

if you win, just use code Theo when signing up. That's right. Price picks just switched up their offer. So there's no better time to join. Lock in and win that first lineup. That's code Theo at sign-up to get $150 in bonus line-ups. If you win your first $5 plus lineup, price picks, code Theo, play responsibly. As you guys know, Moon Pay is my go-to place to buy crypto. And now they just launched something new called Moon Pay Agents. It's tech that lets AI handle your

crypto for you. Think of it like a smart assistant that can buy sell, trade, swap coins, set up recurring buys, and even convert crypto back in the cash all on your behalf. You just set up a wallet through Moon Pay, verify your identity once, fund it with a bank transfer, Apple Pay, Venmo, or PayPal, and your agent can get to work. Your keys stay on your device so you stay in control. Moon Pay already powers crypto for millions of people in over 180 countries. Check out Moon Pay

Agents at moonpay.com/agents. Crypto is risky and can be volatile. So do your own research and trade responsibly. You know, in the past, I was hesitant to invest. I just felt like I didn't know enough, or maybe I was too late. I couldn't time the market right. I didn't know. I hadn't talked to my friend enough and gotten enough information from him. I just I didn't have a plan. So many of us today only focus on where our money is today. A. Corns is the financial wellness

app that cares about where your money is going tomorrow. A. Corns is a smart way to give your money

spare money even if all you've got is spare change. Sign up now and join the over 14 million

customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with A. Corns. Plus, A. Corns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment. Offer available at acorns.com/thio. That's A. C-O-R-N-S dot com slash TH-E-O to get your $20 bonus investment today. Terms and conditions apply C-A-Corns dot com slash terms for details. Pay non-clined endorsement, compensation provides incentive to positively promote acorns to your two compensation provided with dental subject to various factors such as customers

accounts, aid investment settings. There's not only a coin fees, results do not predict the performance of any acorns portfolio and investment is also very investing in those risks. Acorns provides a LLC and C-R-R-N-S investor. The importance of acorns dot com slash to your. You've, it's been given a lot of people kind of pass away from your kind of life, just probably

because a lot of the drugs that came to your own area. Yeah, drugs, depression. I mean, it was always

like overdose, you know, a couple of friends, those close to a community suicide and then a lot of people were kind of hard-off to prison. So that's where, you know, a lot of the folks that I were friends with and loved and stuff. That's like the three ways that they would mostly leave. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Was there a funeral that you remember going to, like you

“really first funeral you're going to? Yeah, my grandpa's funeral, I think, was the first one at”

least that I remember. Where you like surprised at people that like I remember around what to have funeral for the first time and even though I had known like like we knew that my friends brother had passed away, but when I went to the funeral, I didn't, I don't think I really registered it like and they went to the funeral and like it was like, oh, and it was just like so, it was, I don't

know. Yeah, I remember thinking it was so much. It was so much. It was so much. It always falling

dude. And I just wanted to like my tier, like I was like, it wasn't even my family. It was just like so crazy to think that like this part of it that that's part of it. Yeah. And I'm, I remember wanting to be my tier. My tier's like going into the cracks in the fucking floor and I was like, God, that's I just want to crawl down in there. It was just feels like it's so like, I don't know. I was just like, it's hard. It hurts already. The fact that you're going to not have to be here one day,

“something about it already hurts. Yeah. I think that's how I felt like when I was young for sure.”

Yeah, it's tough to think about. I mean, nobody, nobody wants that. But it's kind of the only thing you can count on, really. Yeah, I remember thinking it was really like, for, I was first time I saw a dead body. I think was my grandpa's. And I remember like, I think my aunt, maybe my grandma and stuff was like, you know, kissing him and stuff. And I remember just kind of being like, weirded out by that, like, whoa, you know, they're like kissing that dead, my dead grandpa's body.

That was a freak. Yeah, I mean, I would, I'd be like, damn, I didn't know what that was possible there. He must have really had it. Yeah, no, he was, he was badass, man. Oh, if somebody's, yeah, I think, yeah, if I'm laying there, I want somebody, my friends, they come up and tickle me or do some little things like that. You know, maybe sneak a pill under my tongue or some or give me one

“hit at LSD at that point. Yeah, because if I die sober, man, then that's what I want. And I don't”

think that's crazy to announce it, everybody. Yeah, if you corner, if you corner my funeral, you're welcome to slide a little hit or listen under me. Yeah, yeah, help you with, you know, good journey. Yeah, good luck out there, brother. Yeah. Let's make it, hey, make it red, bro. Dude, you had your, how's your leg? How's the leg going on? I know everybody asks you. So it's great. Um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's healing up pretty good. I've been doing lots of

physical therapy and shit last time I saw yours on crutches. Now, I'm just kind of rocking this, this guy. Hell yeah, that cane, baby. Yeah, really walk a dude. That bitch is high. This is life got you that? Yeah, because this is the cane that Lawrence Talbot had on the original 1941 Universal Motion Pictures, The Wolf Man. And Lawrence, Larry Talbot, in the beginning of the film, he's working on his dad's telescope. He just comes back to to

England or wherever they're at. And he's working on the telescope and then he, you know, comes over and he sees this girl in her window and she's putting on her earrings and stuff. He's peeping Tom in that shit. Yeah. Yeah. And then so he sees her and then he

And then he, he really doesn't know what he's looking for. She's like, well, what are you looking for?

And he said, well, what I'm really looking for is a walking stick and he picks this one up. He's like, this one's pretty cool. It's got a dog on it. And she's like, that's a wolf. And so he goes out on a double date with this chick with her friend Jenny. And she sees this fortune teller in the woods. That's actually played by Baylor Lagosie who was like the original Dracula. Oh, yeah. And Lagosie was like that. Yeah. The wolf man. This is called. Yeah, man. And he was a peeping Tom

“Cheney. Yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. That's how he found his girl. And then, but anyways, that”

that fortune teller sees Jenny in the woods. And he's looking at her palm. He's reading her palm and he sees this symbol that's star with the circle in it. And then he's like, you guys got dip, like, you know, because that's what happens is the wolf man sees that symbol in the palm of his next victim. And so then, you know, they're, they're, they skidaddle. And then all of a sudden, you start hearing these big holes and shit. And this wolf is attacking Jenny and Larry beats the

shit out of that wolf with this cane because it's got a silver head on it, silver bullets, you know, silver can kill a wolf, a wear wolf. And then he goes home, he gets bit in the process. And he goes home, the old lady drops him off and then, you know, they, the cop show up and he's like, man, you know, the fortune teller was found dead in the woods. And he's like, I'm telling you, I killed a plain old ordinary wolf. And so yeah, anyways, this is the Larry teller cane.

I'm a big fan of all those old monster movies. Like, my dad used to watch him with me when I was a kid. Yeah. And I just, I was really fascinated with the wolf man when I was little. Like, I wouldn't go outside if there was a full moon really. Yeah, because I knew he was out there to just lurk and on his tipy toes with them fangs. Yeah. And, and do being scared as a kid, remember how scary it was

“when you think of how scary it was when you were scared or something as a kid, dude. The dark bro?”

Yeah. Yeah. But under a bed, get out of here, bro. Yeah, monsters in the closet or something, or you think something's that some shadows, you see, the like, when it was nighttime, and we were driving in the car with my parents and stuff. And I was looking out the window. We'd be driving past a forest. And I used to call him wolf assist trees, because I, like, I knew the wolf was out there and like, in the movie, he's like, looking behind these trees and shit

and they're all like oily black. And like, I just always, whenever I saw like the woods at night,

I was just like, I knew the wolf man was out there. I believed in him. Oh, dude. I remember thinking that like, I would, oh, that's him. Yeah. That's long, Cheney. Long Cheney, Junior. Dammy's like that. He looks like he used to play for the Minnesota Vikings a little bit.

“Like, my buddy Steve Setsler. He's got that look, bro. I remember we would watch those”

Jason. We watch Friday the 13th. Me's with our older brothers and then our older brothers would just go dip and do some shit and just leave the younger brothers. Oh, like, the craziest thing you can do is watch a scary movie with your younger brother and then just dip. Because that kid is fucking scared out of his ankles, bro. I remember me and my friend William is sitting there. We sat back to back to we were so scared. And we stayed up for as long as we could.

Yeah. We put every light in the house on except the one of my mom's bedroom and then we put a towel on front of her door so the light wouldn't go in there. And we had, we were like, we are not losing this plate. Like, just everything was fucking traumatic, dude. And you hear a car go by

and you're like, that's pretty croaker. Yeah. It would always be something that was so intense, bro.

My dad, when I was little, there was one night. He's the one that showed me the wolf man and shit. When I was, I don't even know, fucking five, six. Yeah. And so I remember there was one night where I was up in my room and I was playing with toy cars. And I was probably supposed to be a sleep. And I probably had, you know, school the next morning or something. But I was in there playing with my toy cars and shit. And my dad had this wolf mask. And he went outside and I had a window

that went off to the back porch. And he, you know, I'm sitting there playing with my toy cars and I heard a noise and I like looked around. And I was like, what the fuck was that? And like, uh, you know, and I went back to playing. And then I heard clearly a scratch on the screen of the window and I looked up, dude. And I saw, he was wearing that wolf mask and it fucking dude. I freaked. You dad did that. Yeah, he scared the living shit out of me. And I, uh, I ran out of my room like

down the hallway. We lived in this little trailer. Did you know it was him? The hell, no. I mean,

all the way over to my mom who was laying on the couch. And I just landed right on top of my house, screaming crying. My dad came in the back door, just laughing. He's like, it's a mask, it's a mask, you know, and I'm just like, oh, dude, I, man, I must have been funny, but what? Oh, did you do that? Yeah, he still talks about it. Bro, yeah, I guess, but I guess, yeah, maybe it looked dude. Maybe you're like, I'm a scare this shit out of this fucking kid. You don't

“say any who knows what parents think. Because all you have to do is have two beers and be like,”

hey, I think I'm a scare my kid. Yeah, you're doing it. Yeah, I'm never, maybe it's like,

he's, he's supposed to be in bed, but he's in there playing with his toy cars. I'm going to go, you know, oh, yeah, but he just scratched on that, that metal screen. And I'm like, I heard it the first time. I was like, what the fuck was that? And then second time, he, like, moved into the light with that mask. There is, I was so terrified. God, dude. Yeah, yeah, dude, we had, uh, we called, they called it like haunt, people go haunt in our area.

And it was like, that was like peeping times. There are a lot of peeping times in our area. So you'd see people out there, almost on the circuit or wherever, like, people would like hit, like, it was just like a lot of peeping times. You know, they busted a lot of dudes in our area. They had a lot of pedophiles in our area, because they used to have this, this law where if you was a pedophile, um, and you might, I don't know if you believe in them or not, I believe in them.

Believe in what? Pedophiles? Yeah, like, do I believe the real? Yeah, I'm pretty sure the real. Okay. All right, same. Unfortunately, same. Yeah. But the problem was, dude, uh, they would have to come to your door that a law, they moved into the neighbor, that it come to your door. But all of our moms worked in our neighbor, like, you know, I'm saying, like, a lot of there's a lot of single parent families in the moms work. She'd have a pedophile will come to the door

and, like, have to let you guys know a pedophile. Oh, yeah. And it would just be us kids answering the door. Like, it was the world shit. It was the worst idea that they'd ever come up with, dude. Because we, I remember three different pedophiles or pee files, people call them because if they're in a hurry or whatever. But I remember three different pee files would come and be like, hey, I'm, uh, I've just had to let you know that I'm registered, and then I'm in the in the neighborhood.

And we're like, yeah. And we just be standing there. Do you just kids? Well, I reckon that was like, you know, probably the early days of the internet and stuff and long before that, like, database.

“Oh, for sure. This is just when, yeah. So that's what they had to do as they had to go kind of out”

themselves. Yeah. Well, they'd organized them. Before that, they were just working freelance or whatever, I guess, you know, before they, you know, had them all registered up. But anyway, let's take this subject. Uh, yeah, dude. So what happened? Take me through the, uh, take me through a little bit of the, of the injury. So are you, is it better now, would you say? Uh, yeah. It's definitely getting there. I mean, it's,

it's stiff and hurts a little bit. But yeah, I was just, man, I grew up skateboarding and it's always been

one of my major loves out, you know, outside of music. And I think, you know, the last little bit, I've been playing a lot more music than skating. Uh, but I was on tour and I was skating a fair amount. I remember we went through Tampa and I went through the skate park of Tampa there. Dude, I been there. Yeah. That indoor building. Yeah. Bro, that place had bring that place up. What's it called? Skate Park of Tampa. Dude, this was one of the neatest things where

thank you so much for reminding me about that today. They let us just come and watch one day and watch all the guys skating. Yeah. Yeah. They have a big contest every year. Tampa Pro. And when I went this last time, all the pros were there warming up and shit. Yeah. It was Narlie. It was cool to go Sam skate. But I was skating and, you know, I don't know. And like, in these arenas that we play, I mean, you know, it's like, you get to the back door. Sometimes, like, just the walk to the

green room is like a far-ass walk, right? Oh, yeah. Dude, to no gift to stop and even get this snack. Yeah. So I had been using my skate. Like, I would get off the bus and I would just bring my skateboard

and I would like, slap down. Also, the concrete's always so smooth in there. Yeah. It is pretty

slick. A lot of the concrete in this place is kind of slick. Yeah. So it's really nice on a skateboard super smooth. So I could just like push twice and like be all the way around the whole arena and like, you know, into my green room or whatever. But I, you know, I'd been skating a bunch. And we finished this show in Charlottesville, I think. It's the John Paul Jones Arena. And dude, that's a great spot. Yeah. Been there. Yeah. So we finished there.

“But town is great. Yeah. That's what UVA is. Yeah. And yeah, I was lucky that I broke my leg there.”

They had a great, um, medical team there, you know, like that, the hospitals are great there. And, uh, oh, yeah, you break that bitch up in Syracuse, just something that was wish that bitch was better.

excited after my gig. We just finished the last song. Was this big hide and seek jam and we just

“spanked the crowd. And, uh, and I was all excited. I had all this adrenaline from the show.”

And my board was sitting there. We walked off stage. We're getting ready to do an encore. And so I just grabbed my board. I did like a couple bonuses. And then, um, I went out, just right backstage. And I just kind of flung this back one, 80. And that's like, it's a go-to trick for me. I've

done it millions of times and I've never broke my leg, you know. And, but the thing is, it's like,

I wasn't like focused and I wasn't really skating. I was just like fling in tricks and I wasn't like thinking about it. And so, and it was dark. And I had brand new like sticky shoes on. And so, it was weird. Like, I did this back one, 80. And I kind of slipped out. And then, when I put my foot down, my body kept spinning. And I sort of like sat on my foot. And my shoes were brand new. So like, there's the bottoms were sticky. And it just, when I put my foot down, my toe stayed right where it

was. And the rest of my body kept moving. So, I just heard it snap. Oh, dude. Yeah, I could hear it

“over the crowd like screaming. And it was just, I mean, it sounded like a two-by-four snap and a half.”

And I'm laying on the ground. And my guitar tech comes up. Toby, he says, dude, get up. And I'm like, I just broke my leg. And he's like, nah, I'm like, look at it. It's fucking, it's pointed 90 degrees to the left. Yeah. And he's like, oh, shit. And so, I laid there for a minute. And nobody was like, moving me or anything. So I'm like, fuck it. I just got up. I'll do 10 it, Dan, my ass out of there. You know, I just scooted on my ass back behind the curtain.

They came, they cut my pant leg up. Could you tell it was broken? Oh, I knew it was broken immediately. And I heard it. It's like, and the fact that it was like pointed the wrong way, it's like, yeah, my leg is fucking broken. Do you love and fix it yourself at all? No, no, no, I didn't fuck with it. Um, but I, I scooted out of there. And then the, the medic came and he kind of cut my pant leg up. And they took me and they put me on this

stretcher. And then I called my wife and I'm like, yeah, I just broke my leg. She's like, what? You know, I'm like, I was dicking around on my skateboard, you know, and fucking slipped out. And somehow I broke my leg. Um, and all the like pros I've talked to and stuff. They're like,

“even Tony Hawk, Jamie Thomas, all these cats. They're just like, man, that's how it happens. It's like”

some stupid little trick. Like, it's always like some dumb thing. Um, but so I'm sitting on the

stretcher. And the guy comes up and he's like, we're going to give you some fentanyl. I was like, nah, like, I was like, no, like, it don't you know how far I've called? Yeah, you know, I was like fentanyl, like, you know, and he's like, and, you know, one of the guys was like, dude, the roads are pretty bumpy around here. You're going to want that. It was like, all right, fuck it. So they gave me fentanyl an IV. It like took the edge off, you know. And at that point, I was starting to like go

into shock and I started sweating, but I was freezing and it started to hurt. Because I didn't even hurt when it happened. It just, I heard it, and I knew it was broken, but I had so much adrenaline, even fucking hurt. That's wild dude. Was that a pretty, just, that whole experience got to be pretty wild. Yeah. It was like, adrenaline's just like a crazy drug that God gives you, but you can't just get it whenever you want. Yeah. It was, it was wild. I mean, I knew my leg was broken. I just,

I couldn't even feel it at first. I just, my leg was pointed sideways and I'm like, oh man,

it's busted, but it didn't like hurt until that adrenaline started to wear off. And then it was like, oh, and then it's kind of started coming on like, oh, shit, here it comes. And then they gave me that fentanyl, they hit you with an IV. Yeah. And they were doing that in morphine back to back. fentanyl would work better, but it only lasts like 10 minutes, you know. And then the morphine would like last longer, but it didn't help as much. But then, so they got me there and they,

they gave me a red carpet, man. It was like, you know, we got to, uh, you got a police escort. Yeah, police escort, you know, they're like, we got a high profile patient, you know. And so they, man, they brought me in this back door. They closed off the hallways. There was nobody in there. They wheeled me right into the X-rays immediately. It was fucking cool. And then, uh, did he flick a movie, kind of? Yeah. I mean, it was just nice that I didn't have to sit there with a

broken leg in the emergency room forever. Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. And shit. Oh, yeah, getting a little bit of treat me out. Just to not just sit out there and some of the guys coughing on your fucking leg, whatever. It's fucking, yeah. So you know, you don't fucking sleep on your back and shit. But our healthcare system is fucking crazy. Wow. Just people like, like, trying to heal each other, like, religiously is shit in the lobby. There's a lot of these hospitals just gun crazy. Yeah,

people are rubbing pepper jack on each other's fucking necks and shit, like, and just people just, like, thinking up shit they can do because they got to wait five or six hours to get in there to even get a fucking hug. You know, totally. So I was lucky to get in there and they x-rated and stuff.

you showed me a picture that was crazy. You look like they fucking turned it into a damn violin.

“Yeah, that was that one you showed me. Well, that's yeah, after they, you know, the surgery”

and stuff, there's one in there, like, right after it happened, um, before it was even set and splinted where it looks really fucked. Um, but yeah, do you turn it into a violin? Dude, what if you had a violin leg, dude? And you made it wooden and you put some strings on the side of that bit. That metal bar in there could work as a whammy bar if we're going to take it out. That's really looks like. Yeah. But dude, the craziest part about the whole thing was so I get in there

and we get it x-rayed. Yeah, that's the one that looks really screwed. That was before it was set and splinted. So it's what they call a distal-tib fib spiral fracture. And it's, it means, like, it's broken, like, pretty close to my ankle, which made it worse. If it was broken in the middle of my leg, they could just put a rod down there, screw it, and like, it'd be a lot better. But because it was so close to my ankle, it was, it's a bitch of a surgery, like, you know.

And so, but dude, they are, they x-rayed it and they're like, okay, we're going to have to set it and splint it before, because I don't, I'm not going to get surgery till the next morning. So they had to get it straight and then, um, and then put a splint on it. And so they needed me to, like, not be in the room, but they couldn't put me under anesthesia. So what they did is gave me this huge dose of ketamine. And it was insane. It was, like, one of the most, like, crazy psychedelic

experiences I've ever had. I mean, they dropped me straight into a k-hole. Really, and take me through

“some of that, take me through the k-hole was it, like, was there a layover? Was it just straight there?”

Was it direct flight? Like, were you getting into direct flight? I mean, it was, it was immediately everything just folded in on itself and, like, language and everything kind of made up all these molecules. And I could still hear the doctors talking a little bit, but they were using now this alien language that I couldn't understand. And I was frozen in this, like, white space and time. And I went down into this other dimension. It was like when Matthew McConaughey was trying to

move the, you know, book on the shelf. It was like, I was trapped behind layers of language. And, um, fuck, that's a good description, Billy. Yeah. And I was there. And I knew I was there, but I just, there was nothing I could do. And it felt like I turned into, like, computer code or, like, I felt like I was the, the microchip inside of an iPod, sending signals, but, you know, um, oh, and it, it was, it was wild. I felt very much like an inanimate object. Yes, dude.

That's what I felt like, dude. Yeah. I felt like I was playing hide and go seek, but I just,

I never, with myself, but I'd never told myself that we started the game. Like, I felt like I had

“fucking, I felt like I would never find my shoes again. That's what I felt like. And I also remember”

feeling like I, like, I was, like, something very small that had fallen behind a piece of furniture. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. I just had, like, you were making me do. That's some of those thought to you that's how we're freaking bananas. Yeah. It was like I was stuck in this frozen dimension. And I was just kind of was like, well, I guess this is life now. Yeah. You know, I guess this is, this is where I'm at. And it, this sucks because I, I think I'm dead, you know,

and I just was like, well, shit. And, uh, it's kind of like, well, whatever. I guess I'm just, there was nothing I could do because I was paralyzed in this state. Yeah, dude. I felt like you ever see that ball in the back of your throat kind of that's there. Yeah. But you just see, like, every once in a while, you kind of get a clip for another three-year-old life. Yeah. And yeah, I felt kind of like that. I felt like that, but I'm like an animal somewhere at a zoo that had been closed

for almost 2,000 years. Right. That's it. I felt like. Yeah, the long forgotten. I felt like I, you know, like these sunglasses that are just sitting here, but nobody knows that they have a soul in a brain, but they're just, they can't say or do anything because they're just frozen in these glasses, but, you know what I mean? Yeah. So then when I started to come back to, that was hilarious, too, because I, I guess I started coming to, there's this lady's face right here and her face is all

distorted and she's talking to me in this alien language. And I looked at her, I'm like, "Who are you?" You know, and, and, and then I look over here and there's this big tall man in a white shirt and I was like, Uncle John, and then, uh, my wife said I was talking all sorts of gibberish about like, the inside of an apple core and that like, this has all been predetermined. Like, this was all, you know, thought out and this was like part of the plan, you know, everything. You had the wizard's tongue.

They call this thing. Yeah. Yeah. For a second there, I thought I was, and that was also speaking

complete gibberish, not saying real words. Yeah, but that you got it. Yeah. But then, uh, I, that's

to me and I just like, I was like, I didn't know what was going on. And I was like, I thought

“there were aliens like fucking with me, you know, like trying to probe me or something and I was like,”

fuck you. Yeah. Like, I just told him that. I was like, the way for my ass. Why do? I was like, I'm sorry. You know, I didn't mean that. You know, and then, uh, oh, yeah, there's nothing crazy then being on drugs and being an asshole and apologizing at the same time. Yeah. Right away, I was like, fuck you. I'm sorry. You know, and then they put this thing on, uh, I mean, it's crazy. You're the best. The, uh, what do you call for it for your blood pressure? Oh, yeah,

that cough. Yeah, that cuff. It fills up. So I'm laying there. I'm all fucked up. And that thing fills up. And, you know, probably because of my guns, that thing popped right off, right? The Velcro came on done. And it went, it goes pop off my arm and I go, my butt popped. You know, you know, I just, it felt like my butt cheeks like blew up with air and then they popped like a bubble. Oh, yeah. And I was like, oh, my butt popped. You know, my wife was like trying not to laugh,

but I was saying some crazy shit. And then they, uh, they brought me upstairs. And I was in a lot of pain all night long because they started giving me like dilatates and, and, and, and jeez, hydrocodone, just orally, and it wasn't doing anything to the pain. I just laid there and moaned and grown all night. Dude, that, but that seems crazy that they, and did they have to go over with your wife if they were going to give you all that medication. Like who approves that once you're kind of like,

yeah, my manager was there, my wife, my security dude, uh, you know, okay. So there were people there at least like, like, keep in tabs on you. Yeah. Okay, bad. Yeah, I think my, uh, my dude, Jim, he wrote with me over there and then my manager. Yeah, you know, dude, he's awesome, bro. Yeah, he's a killer. He's a great guy. Yeah. Then the next morning, they fucking took me down for surgery

“and they, before they gave me a nerve block, which was the best thing ever, because it just,”

it's like an epidural for your leg. It just drenched all the nerves in light of cane,

so I didn't feel nothing then for the first time since it happened. I was like, oh, I just felt

so good to not feel it. Jim, you were like, lemon him in the 2000s and you're like, okay, Marshall nothing matters. Yeah, dude, for sure. That's crazy. And they gave me this one shit. I can't remember what it was called, but it had me so chilled out and then like, God, dude, it sounds like it's, this is kind of the worst thing to say, being in a recovery, but to fucking say, like, yeah, using drugs, like, at a hospital, like, it was like proper care.

Yeah, it was a freebie. Yeah, it was. It really was. I mean, you, except for the, except for the, I mean, I sort of enjoyed the ketamine, but it was also terrifying, because I thought I was frozen in a, oh, yeah, that's just horrible. Different dimension, you know, you like, nobody's ever going to come, like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I thought my brain had fried and I, you know, it was like you took a glass of water and poured it on a television or something. It was like,

all the, you know, my brain just fried. But man, the thing that they gave me right before surgery,

I don't know what it was, but it had me so chilling and I was finally just getting some rest and

some relief. And then my oxygen kept going down. So my things started beeping. So I'd start chilling like this and then it'd go beep, beep, beep, beep, and then this lady would come in and say, I need to take a big deep breath for me. I'm like, you know, I take a deep breath and then I chill a little bit and it goes beep, beep, and she's like, I need you to breathe and I'm like, I am breathing. You know, like, just leave me alone, like, I'm fucking chilling. Finally, you know, God,

now that I'm chilling, you're coming in here, making me breathe and shit, because I guess I was so chill that I wasn't even breathing. I was just, oh, yeah, that's one of those breath diggers, dude. It was good. It was like that that is one of fucking all they care about as you fill in your lungs, dude. Oh, this fucking just is lung diggers. But yeah, probably the smartest thing that I did coming out of the hospital was I gave all my pain meds to my wife. And I said, you divvy these up,

you know, you're in charge of this, like, give me my pills when I need them and stuff,

“because I know myself too well. I'd be like, oh, man, one of these is good. What, wonder what?”

Two's like, so then, uh, yes, start hiding or whatever. Yeah. I fucking start booing for them. I don't care what. Crush one up and snorted or something. Yeah. But I snorted with my ass, brother. I get it. If I had to, like, a little parachute, if, yeah, what's it called? Little parachute. Oh, yeah, little parachute. If they, yeah, dude, I'd send somebody behind it and me lines, you know what, I'd send one of them behind it and me lines for sure. But yeah, I can't trust myself. I can't trust

myself. Yeah. I, and I'm, you know, I've just been around a lot and I know myself. I'm an addict. So I was like scared to, you know, beyond that stuff anyways. But I had to take out. They gave me a lot of it. And then I was on this, uh, what is it called? Gabapetan was like the nerve pain thing. And then there was a nut just saw a lawsuit about Gabapetan. You may be able to be, be, be, be

it and like, I wound off like everything in like two weeks. Um, and then I was just on like, I'd be profaned and stuff. And so it was pretty good. Two weeks a long haul. Let's read it really quick. Is that new? Is it related to dementia? Sure, uh, but, but I'm just going to tell you just because I'm telling you this shit gave me vertigo, like weird brain shit to where when I'm laying in bed. And I roll over like this next thing, you know, I'm spinning. No, when you get way too

“drunk, you're spinning and you can't fucking hold the, you know, that's what it was doing to me,”

dude. And like, like, the, one of the first times it happened, I laid back in bed and I moved my head like this. And I was like that, because I thought the bed was falling down into the floor. I thought I was going to slide off the end of it, you know? Fuck yeah, I know what you're talking about. Dude, when I was like 13 or something, I fucking, um, did do love the Gravichron door opener or fair one time. And my fucking legs were hanging out of that bitch and dude. No joke, bro. I walked

sideways for probably almost 11 days after that, dude. I just like my body just could not adjust to what was going on. That thing would, that thing fucking remix my little ass. Um, there is currently no nationwide class action lawsuit or multi district litigation for these cognitive claims.

“The allegation lawsuits are being investigated or filed individually, alleging that”

manufacturers failed to warn patients and doctors about potential long-term neuro-cognitive risks such as mild cognitive impairment or dementia tied to repeated use for off-label conditions like back or neck pain. Anyway, I just, that just passed through my, um, brainest fear the other day. You know, when the bathroom has two handicapped stalls, so you don't feel so bad, taking one of them. Or when you wear last year's summer shorts for the first time this season

and find a $5 bill in the pocket. That's a power move. Just like how hiring Morgan and Morgan is a power move. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. They have over 100

offices nationwide and more than 1,000 lawyers, with over 30 billion dollars recovered for over

500,000 clients. Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting to get you full and fair compensation. If you are injured by the negligence of another, you deserve to be paid. I knew a barista back at home that lost one of his thumbs using one of those fancy French presses. And now we can't hitchhike. Sounds unfair to me. If you are ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan. For more information, go to 4thepeople.com/theo or dial pound law pound 529.

That's f o r the people dot com slash THEO or dial pound law pound 529. This is a paid advertisement. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. You've heard me talk about Better Help for a long time. But I don't think that we've talked about how much people love this service when they use it. You can check it out for yourself at betterhelp.com/reviews. Better Help has an

average live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client session

reviews. The reviews are updated every day with hundreds of people saying how much they love Better Help and how helpful it's been to them. Better Help therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience. They also hold all required education training and certifications across a range of mental health specialties. See the reviews, see what stands out and see if Better Help is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com/theo. That's BetterHELP.com/THEO.

Just second ago you mentioned addiction. When you talk about you know, when you say like I know myself, I know I'm an addict. What is that kind of addiction? It feels like it's almost as shadow the head as its own game plan or something. I'm saying like addiction is kind of a weird thing.

“I think a lot of people don't understand it and I'm not saying that I understand it totally. I know”

that I have addiction. I know that I struggle with addiction but I think it's just interesting to think about what it is you know. Yeah, it's an illness. I mean I think some people are lucky enough not to have it. I think you know people who can go out and have a couple beers with their dinner

or a glass of wine with their steak or whatever. That's amazing. I wish I could do that.

to get more after that's gone. Oh, dude. If I come over to your house and you get me a glass of wine,

“I'm going to fucking get an able. I'm a cell. I'll sell your front porch on it. You know what I'm saying?”

I'll sell all your fucking windows out of your house. You're a little fan. You want to take that out. Yeah, but you want to know what's crazy is that it just yeah, just that knocking it well, dude. So after my mom died, um, and I was in Australia when I found out that she died from an overdose. I was in Australia on tour. I still had no idea what happened. I was like, was it an aneurysm, a heart attack? Like, what the hell happened? And then I got her autopsy and her, um,

her papers back and it's, you know, her, her desertificate and it's had methamphetamine intoxication. Where's the cause of death? Like, holy shit, you know, and because that was a surprise, you had big time. I mean, and I had no idea that she was using again and stuff. So it broke my heart and, you know, I've been dealing with it, but as soon as I got back home from Australia, I went straight over to her house and I went up

“in her bedroom and I started digging through shit and I found her stash and I found all these, you know,”

pipes and, you know, little bags and vials and stuff and all that shit. But due to, um, the difference is like, this speed was different than the stuff I was used to. Like, back when I was around that scene, living in Ionia and that it was that epidemic at that time. It was being cooked in this area and it was like suit-of-feet, like shaken-baked, uh, kind of country bumpkin sort of crank crank. I knew you were talking about, like, just like that homemade shit kind of. Yeah, it was like white powdery

stuff and you, you know, put it in the pipe or, like, bulb or a foil and like jank them or whatever. Not exactly. Not exactly. Not exactly, but yeah, I don't know what you're saying, but I'm just saying, like, it's like a localized mixture. It's like a local recipe. Yeah. But it got the job done. Anyways, this shit that I found after she had died when I found her stash, this was straight

crystal, um, glass and I had never even seen shit like that before, right? I had heard about it

and everybody's seen breaking bad and shit, but I'm looking at it. I got this vial and it's like half full and I'm like damn, and it just looks like broken glass in there, like shards. Really? Yeah, and I, you know, I'd never, there's nothing like that. And we just brought up a picture here. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I could also, I could send you the pictures of it, but, um, dude, you want to know what the first thought that went through my head was? It was like,

man, I should just take a little bit of this and put it aside for like a rainy day. Yeah, you know, because I don't, where the hell else would I get some, you know, I don't, I don't know anybody anymore or whatever. That's like that addict, you know, coming through. It's like this literally the stuff that I'm holding in my hand killed my mom and my first thought is I should take some and just hide it. Like that way, if I need it some day, yeah, you know,

I'll have it. And, um, yeah, it was just, that was the crazy thought, you know, and I, I just, I just ended up, you know, getting rid of it. I, I got to hold my buddy, my friend, Alec, who's a police officer, I went to high school with growing up and, um, I called him and I was like, man, can you have one of your boys come just grab this stuff? Like, I don't, I don't want to put it in the trash can because I'll go digging back through their

later or my dad will or something or somebody will or I just needed to get, like, actually dispose

of it, you know, and so my mom would have hated that. She always told me, don't even speak to

the police. But, you know, yeah, man, another crazy thing too is like, it's a good definition of it.

“Yeah, I mean, that's, that's how bad it is. It's like, like I said, this, this literally killed my”

mom and, and I'm thinking, man, I should just take a little bit, yeah, put it aside. Nobody would know. We, and I also thought it's like, for a rainy day. Oh, yeah. I'll be like, let me keep some so I can scrap book it. That's, I'm not even joking. That's what my brain would do. So I can like have like a, if I, you know, I'm saying, like, I'll think like, let me keep some for like a memory, like a, you know, I'm saying like, but yeah, but there's a part of my brain that's like,

uh, and I don't, that's just a good, yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. We, we text it kind of around that time. But yeah, man, and I appreciate you, uh, reaching out. You know, this guy, he got a big heart. I mean, you stayed in touch with me through all that when I was in the hospital with my dad. You kept, you know, kept in touch and you offered to come walk my dog when I broke my leg. Like, man, you're, you're good dude. And I appreciate all that, you know. Well, thanks, man. You're the

probably, you're one of the realist guys you've ever, we've, you're one of the realist people I've been around. I don't know how God gave you that gift to be so real. I'm sorry to hear about your mom, dude. Yeah. She loved you, bro. Did she? Yeah. Oh, she loved you, man. Where did I met her somewhere?

a show of you? Yeah, probably. She was at a lot of your shows, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, she came in all so many shows. Like, I would be in fucking New Orleans or Seattle or Texas or somewhere, dude. And she would just show up in my green room. I'd be like, what are you doing here? She's like, oh, I hitchhiked down with so and so, and, you know, can you give me a hotel room or anything? I'm like, holy shit, mom.

“I'll sleep on the bus, so you can have my room. Oh, you know. What a, um, yeah, what was her spirit?”

Like, tell us, let's, if it's okay with you, let's just think about it for a second.

Man, she was a hard to explain. She was a beautiful, beautiful soul. And I've never met anybody

else like her. That's for sure. I mean, she, she's born in 1960 on Halloween. No way. Yeah, she's a Scorpio. She was like, she was always kind of like psychic and always had this intuition. Always, even though she was an outlaw, she like never, you know, she's skirted around the law and a lot of different times like, just, but yeah, she loved music and she loved art. She was an artist. She made a lot of art.

All love music. Oh, yeah. I mean, I remember being a little kid, like, a little kid, and she would like show me all these, you know. Do you know who this is? All this is, you know, Led Zeppelin or this is, you know, Pearl Jam or this is, uh, she used to play. She did like backwards masking where she'd play the record backwards and find like secret messages in it. And uh, she was playing me when I remember being just a little

kid. She was playing revolution number nine backwards. The Beatles white album. Showing me, showing me how it says, turn me on, dad, man. You know, and I'm just like a little seven years old or something. It was like, wow, what are you doing? You know, but yeah, she was amazing, man. She,

“she dealt with a lot of, uh, a lot of trauma in her life. I mean, I think she had a wild upbringing”

anyways. I mean, when she was set a picture of when she was young, yeah, uh, yeah, when she was like 16 years old, bro, go back to that one picture. Look at what a curious, but also kind of mysterious young ladies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But witchy too. Like she just something, there's something different about her man. Just like she came from like another realm just to audit humanity.

Yeah. She, I mean, she definitely did. She was, she was tapped into some shit that we will never

really know about. And it was always crazy too, because like, man, she's got so many crazy stories. And I would hear these stories and I wouldn't even believe them. You know, she's like, oh, I was hanging out with those dudes from blow, like bat down in like Miami and shit. They had, you know, they were breaking out lines this long. And they were, um, you know, they had boats full of money. They didn't have anywhere else to put their money. So they just would buy a boat and just put

it on this boat and park it in the marina, like just with full of cash, you know. And then, uh, you know, things, just crazy things. And I would, I would not believe her, right? Because these stories would be so insanely just like whatever, you know. And then, uh, you know, like she used to hang out with like, um, all the bands she would get back stage. She's got, you know, picture. I got pictures with her like Leonard Skinnerd and, you know, all these old bands that she said,

one of those bands was that band. 38 special or some shit like that. One of these bands had a damn chimpanzee that would ride on roller skates and bring drinks around. Really? Who was it? That's what she said anyways. And I'm like, okay, you know, and then later on, she seems like such a Gypsy woman. Yeah, she was, man. Later on in life there would be somebody, you know, show up,

“her one of her old girlfriends or something. Debbie, remember that time we were partying with the”

band and they had the chimpanzee and I'm like, are you shit me? You know, and it would always be like

some story that I did not believe. And, but just crazy, crazy shit like that, man. She's, she's had, she had a wild life and it makes sense that she would go out like that because she's not going to go out in some boring way. She's not going to get sick and drag it out. She's just going to, and that's the other thing about her is she would be there and like you're partying and you're hanging out and then it's like, where's Deb? Like, she's just, she would just

leave without saying a word and like, that's how she left, you know, is how she always did. And it was, you know, now that I've had more time to process it and just been in a lot of therapy and stuff and like, I mean, obviously, it still tears me up. I'm, I'm like grieving a lot in my dreams. I wake up like suffocating in my sleep and I just like, my mom comes to me and it's never like a sweet, like, beautiful thing. It's always like a really painful and I wake up and I'm just like,

throat hurts and my head is throbbing and I'm, and so I feel like I'm grieving a lot in my sleep or something but, um, well, she seems so whimsical. It's almost like the only place you could even touch her as in your dreams in a way. You know, I'm saying like, she's just seemed like such an ethereal type of creature, you know. Even here you talk about it, man. It's so wild that she loved music so much and that the thing that she created was a musician. It's just kind of like,

yeah, like, I don't know. It's kind of, um, it's pretty cool. Yeah. You know, as soon as our mothers

“go through a lot, I think and we don't realize it, you know. Because they don't, a lot of moms don't,”

they don't really share all that with you. I think, well, I think that was a big part of her, um, you know, addiction and stuff was, let's see. I mean, she had a crazy up bringing

anyways. My grandpa was always drinking, coming in, smashing up the house and just, it was just a wild

place to grow up and then, you know, she was with my dad, William Apostle, uh, and he died when he was 35. I was two years old and, um, and that was only a couple years after her sister was murdered. So her sister was her best friend and Mel, who's now free, you know, on a fucking basketball somewhere. He killed my Aunt Carla with a 45 point blank close case, fucking, you know, and my mom, you know, there was that and then a couple years later, my dad died of an overdose

“or, I mean, that's what it was, but also there's a lot of, like, kind of word on the street is”

somebody actually gave him a hot shot, like on purpose. So like, um, that's the crazy thing too, is I just came across all these, um, my cousin Patrice. She just found all these old tapes that

was, was my grandma Apostles from her home phone back in the day and, uh, it's the first time I

ever heard my dad's voice on these tapes, you know, and it's just really crazy the shit that they were all doing back in the day. Everybody was in and out of jail, all this crazy shit going down. Who was it voice mails and stuff like it, leaving on a message machine? No, it was like my grandma had her own phone tapped and every single phone call would just be recorded. So I did. That's so bizarre. Yeah, and perfect for your life. And what a gift now that she had it. We are way,

because I can hear my, you know, I can hear my grant or my dad calling his mom kind of from jail or something bitching about, you know, whatever this and that or I need some, you know, uh, need some money in my commissary. I gave my shirt away to this one guy or whatever, because he was like that too. He was like kind of this Robinhood type like he would go in. My dad, uh, he would go in and, uh, some store Walmart or some. Back in the day, there was them hyper color shirts. Yeah,

you blow on it. It would change colors. Yeah. So he would go in and like steal a whole rack of those, like just come out with the rag and put it in the car and then he would like drive around lancing and like give him a way to the homeless people in shit to the fact that all was out there,

wrapping hyper colors. Yeah. Yeah. Those were the shit. Bro, that's so yeah. I've always heard

a lot of crazy stories about my dad, too. He was, he was, I mean, they were all nuts, dude. Just fucking wild bunch, you know, hillbillies. And my, my dad, like, there's this one story where he worked at a cable company for a while. And, um, ever, even Eldridge or whatever? I don't know. I was some kind of, but, but they made cable. Like, no, I'm talking about like T for TV. Okay, bit. Like, so even when I was a little kid, my grandma always had free cable. It was just hooked up.

It was like wired in. And my dad had did that when he was back when he was alive. And, um, it's like he would, he climbed up the, the telephone pole or whatever, and he's got the case open. And then everybody on Fairfield Street came out of their house and was looking because their TV got shut off or something. And he's all up there on that pole. He's like, do you have HBO? And they're like, no. And then you're like, he's like, well, you will in a minute,

just go back inside, you know? So he hooked up. Everybody on Fairfield Street's cable for free. Like, after he worked for the company, you know? Yeah. She, like that. He was like Robin Hood, bro.

“Bro, he could, we could use him now to take care of these flop cameras. That's what we could use”

it now. Yeah. Man, one of the craziest things, too, is like that I'm coming to terms with and like learning and stuff like that is just hearing him, hearing him talk about me and my brother and

oh, well, he loved heroin more than me. And I'm kind of, you know, I was kind of like, well, screw him. I got my, you know, Terry, that's my dad. He raised me up. He taught me everything. I know how to play

and everything. And I always kind of had this chip on my shoulder about my real dad. But it's just

not the case. I mean, he did love me and my brother and he did try his best and he was trying to, you know, get his life straight and stuff. And it turns out there's a pretty good chance that he was kind of murdered, you know, like somebody shot him up with like, you know, a hot shot. What people do that to people like they didn't like, they would, who they knew were struggling with addiction sometimes, is that a common thing? So, way to murder somebody with, you know, it just looks like an overdose.

“Yeah. And I think that was happening a lot back then. I mean, the guy who supposedly did it, Steve Rogers,”

he died the same exact way months or a year later. And I think his old lady Martha might have shot him up like that, because she loved my dad, you know, or whatever. And, but I think there was a lot of that tip for tat stuff going on back then. And yeah, it's, it's crazy to learn about hearing these tapes and stuff. Because there's also tapes of my mom calling my grandma postal, talking about what happened. My grandma Connie, on my mom's side, calling my grandma

Betty on the apostle side, calling and telling her what happened to her son and stuff, like, apparently he like collapsed in the driveway and like, they, you know, Steve Rogers was like, let's get out of here. And, you know, Martha's like, hell no. And, and took him inside and was trying to do CPR and everything. And, you know, so here and all this stuff is really, I went down a bad rabbit hole of it when I found all these tapes. And I started listening to everything and I just,

you know, it's like I'm trying to put these puzzle pieces back together from 1995, you know. Oh, it's like a serial podcast. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just, but it's like my dad, you know,

“yeah. And then you have to go down it. Was it a lot of hours of tapes? There's a lot of”

them on there. Yeah. I haven't even listened to all of them. Yeah. But there's also just like,

I always thought the least side was crazy because my grandpa, for instance, he was outlaw,

race car driving, you know, bringing moonshine up to Michigan, crazy, just crazy bunch. And he hung out with like riff raf from, from lancing and stuff. Like all, his whole crew was just like, like, create, dude, crazy. Like, dude, there's this guy named Art Schaffer and he's still around and Art Schaffer was like a klepto. And he would hang out with my grandpa, you know, he was my grandpa hung out with like the outcasts, you know, he would be friend these guys. There was this guy

Billy Struble who was, who was mentally challenged and, and there was Art Schaffer and there was Hillbilly Pete who had a big beard and he always had a big 40 wrapped up in a paper bag. He never

“really said much, but Billy Struble was always like, you know, helping my grandma,”

the yard and stuff and he was always real proud. Guess who mode the yard, Boomer? I did it. I did it,

you know, and I was like, hey, yeah, Billy, he always smelled like coffee. Yeah. And like bad, like, bad kind of stinky coffee. But then Art Schaffer, he's total klepto. And so there's this great story of him, my uncle worked at this place called Crystal Ray and they had events there and stuff. And so they had all these, um, what was it like, turkeys or some ribs or something in the freezer? We like, like a convention center type or like a place like a like a like a haul, people would go and have

like exactly like a VFW kind of like a like a haul. They have like bingo. They were nice stuff. Maybe bingo. Maybe uh, yeah. But my uncle Billy Struble, he worked at this place and so, oh, there were stakes is what they were, big old stakes. And so they were going to have this event when they were going to cook all these stakes. And Art Schaffer was good friends with my, my uncle Billy. And he found out there was all these stakes there. And he went and stole all

them stakes. And uh, and so he had them. And my, my uncle Billy, he said, uh, the next day or something, he said, man, he was sitting there with Art. And he knew how to draw it out of him. He said, man, Art, man, it's a nice day. I mean, I sure wish we had some of them stakes that come up, mission man. I'm sure they'd be good. And he goes, they are good. You know, he snitched on the cell. He said they are good. Bro, my buddy and Tony, the other day, he fricking, he had some

bad sins that he bought off the internet, like like a bunch of cans of them. So he went and sold them to like some gas station owner, like as some like kind of small gas station. Wow, knowing they were bad. But then, what can such an idiot two days later, he went to that gas station and bought it. And so he was just going to buy sins. He bought his own bad sins back. Oh, my gosh,

when he bought off the internet or something. Oh, like fake. Yeah, I think he got them on Etsy or

“whatever. God, but we pitch that's what you'd get for getting sins off the Etsy. Yeah. Um,”

man, I was on those things for a while. I just kind of last couple of months or whatever. I got off them damn things. Dude, it's like we spin or so much of our lives trying to get off of some of this. No, I'm just on coffee. Yeah. And I quit smoking weed back in December. Um, why won't make you want to quit? Dude, it was like kind of on my mind for a while, like wanting to quit. And then there was two like real big moments. Um, first what happened is I was, I was leaving to go to the grocery

store to go get some groceries and just, you know, get some shit to eat. Yeah, dinner launch. Yeah, just some stuff to put in the cupboards, you know. And I walk out to my truck and I, I'm just like this. I'm like, like, oh shit, like, you know, I don't have my vape pen on me, you know, my weed pen. It's frisking yourself. I'm just like, yeah, exactly. And I'm like, oh shit, I got to go back inside and get my pen. And I'm just like, in my mind, I'm like, really? Like, do you really? You

can't go 20 minutes to the damn grocery store without weed? And so I just made me feel kind of weaker or something, right? Just like, man, you can't do anything without this. Like, you really need to smoke weed every five minutes, you know, and then, and then, just perspective, kind of. Yeah, just like, you know, I was just going on the grocery, I'll bring you right back. I get it in

“20 minutes. Yeah. You can't go 20 minutes without it. Well, that's what's interesting. That feeling”

of that moment, like, whenever I, it's like, if I can just let this moment pass for 30 seconds,

I'm going to be fine. Yeah. But this moment feels like I'm never going to have that again.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, I need it, you know, so, so that was kind of weird. And then, the straw that really broke the camel's back was, my son was sick. He, he had the flu or something. And he was just a little guy. Ripper River. Yeah. He was just a little guy. And he was the first time he really ever got sick. Like, you know, he was throwing up. And it was like two days of this. And he was just like nursing. And he was sleeping. And I was just like, okay, he's kind of

seemed like he was in like a pretty good spot. And like, I was like, are you guys good? Like, I'm going to go upstairs and work on some music in the studio. And he, my wife, yeah, he's sleeping. You know, he's good. He's just nursing and sleeping. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to go upstairs.

“And I'm upstairs. And I'm working on some music. Of course, I'm hitting my pen.”

You know, and I'm working on music and playing on pro tools and shit. And then getting high, you know, and when I came back downstairs, my son had gotten worse. Like, he was like, lethargic. Like, we couldn't even get his attention. We had to bring him to the hospital. And that was the last time I smoked right there. It was like, I felt like such a, you know, my son is sick. And I'm upstairs getting high. Like, that's like, yeah, like a commercial,

most. It was just, yeah, it was just like, man, I'm done with this shit. And I just like, through all my paraphernalia way. And just, I just quit right there. Fuck dude. Does it feel different now? Do you feel, do you have you, what are some things you can notice since you've seen you quit smoking? Because you probably smoked for a decent amount of your life. Dude, I smoked every day since I was like 11. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I, I mean,

by the time I was 12, I was like scraping my bowl to get high. You know, I was like,

you know, looking for roaches and shit. I was like, yeah, it's just I've always smoked weed.

The only time I ever quit was when I was like 19, I got DUI. They put me on probation. And I couldn't smoke for that whole year. So I was just doing acid that whole year. Yeah. But, um, oh, dude, cocaine, help me quit vaping at one point. [laughs] Oh, that's a, that's a different one.

But, you know, I'm saying it's just the way that something's kind of worked out. Yeah. Well, like I said, now I feel like I'm just drinking so much coffee. It's like I gotta have something. Yeah, yeah. But I just, I've always wondered about it, too, because, yeah, I grew up. I mean, dude, when I was fucking 10 years old or something, like dude, we were like sitting in a field, like huffing rubber cement until we heard mystery music in our head.

Like I was like, just a little baby, you know, like trying to get high. And, uh, you know, about it, like I said, by the time I was 12, I was full on stone or kid, you know, and, um,

fuck. And, and, and whatever. So it's like, my whole life, I had, I had always, uh,

you know, had something like that. And so I've, I've often wondered, like, what is life like without, like, drugs and getting high and drunk and stuff? Like, what?

but, but it's, it's, it's dude. It's not as hard as, like, you know, I feel like drugs and shit cause a lot more problems than they, than they medicate, you know. I think a scenario like that

“with the kid would probably, yeah, would make you have to about face, maybe just even that moment.”

It's like, I just can't, I can't risk this. I can't risk being high in case something happens to me. No, and also like, I grew up, you know, in an environment that was very pro-party, yeah, remember we talked about it last time we were a podcast. Yeah, you know, beers, music, people smoking weed, even the whole culture around the music I grew up with, not necessarily the bluegrass side, but, you know, the Beatles and the grateful dad and the, you know, Hendrix and all this,

you know, LSD and trippy, psychedelic stuff is all, it's all cool, you know. It is until it ain't,

you know, until it, you know, it's fun at first. And then when it starts to take over your life,

or it gets too much, or you can't stop, or you know, you overdue it. That's, yeah, it all starts fun and games until somebody gets hurt with something about being a dad that you think has been kind of surprising to you. It has been like a totally crazy adventure. Man, it's the best. I just, I met your son in Austin. Remember, dude, I met your son and the governor of Maine. That lady Janetville's dude, she was rocking, bro. Yeah, that was a good hang. I'm glad you swung by. She was rocking

there that Pomeno cheese, better there. Dude, who is that? The, some, some me. Oh, yeah, she's my business manager. She's league. No joke. I, since she's, might be the nicest woman that I've ever met. She is.

“Just like being helpful. Like she just like wants to be helpful. Yeah, you know. Yeah, that's what she”

does. I mean, she helps me with everything on the daily, everything. She's like my business manager, but I also, you know, she helps me like with like my doctors appointments and like my, you know, every single thing, she helps me with. And my manager bill. Yeah, she was so nice, man. And then we went to your show and Steven Wilson Jr. was there, dude. And I got to meet his son, which was awesome. Oh, well, his son was there. Yes, son was there. And his wife was there.

So that was just great. That was so cool. Dude, and I got to see you guys meet you guys. I

don't think it. I think you guys, it kind of passed, but it never got in the meeting each other. Yeah, that's

where I met and that was what if was it for me? No, it was, it was really it's for the July pick. Yeah, and we'll get rid of their mica. I got to meet and his wife. I got to meet too. She was, yeah, she's a mica's the shim, yeah, dude. I think we're going to try to go to farm aid. Oh, yeah, yeah,

“you should, man. But yeah, dude, that was so great. Just seeing you and Steven Wilson”

Jr. get to meet each other was cool, dude. Yeah, he's an interesting cat. And he's got such a cool style, you know, I think he's found his, like, his own sound and it's cool because he doesn't sound like anything else that I've ever really heard like his guitar playing is really interesting and really cool. Yeah, you see, he feels like a little bit of like a time traveler or something, but I don't know where he's coming from, where he's going kind of, but it's kind of nice to see him

pass by, you know. Yeah. He's a, he has some sunglasses, who did he just mail me some a pair of like, kind of, I think he kind of came out or like, maybe did like a collab with some sunglasses, but pretty cool stuff. Oh, wow. Yeah, what's something about being a dad that kind of surprised you or does it feel like a surprise at all? Maybe like to somebody like you who like has had so many types of feelings and like kind of traversed so many different moments of highs and lows of life

that that's not as big of a surprise. It just sort of feels like, I think like life moving on. So the big one for me, I mean, besides just, I would fucking rip your esophagus out for him if I had to. Like just feeling that about somebody like, I would kill someone for him if I had to or like, you know, you like, I love him that much that I would fill you right here and that's awesome. That's crazy to just feel that love. And so it's like a new kind of love. Like as it is,

it feel like, um, because that's interesting. I truly like I would take bullets like, you know what I mean?

I mean, yeah. And I've just never felt that before. I would I would die for him. Like I would do

anything to protect him. Oh, it's just a crazy feeling. Does it feel like a part of you or does it feel like a new, like, does that question make any sense kind of to you? Yeah, he does feel like part of me. Actually, what's so funny is the other day, he had this like little booger and I like picked his nose and I like grabbed this little booger and I was like, wait a minute, like, I have boogers. He came from my balls. Now he has boogers. Like this is still sort of my booger.

Like, wow. That's so wild to me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I like rolled it and I like flipped it.

“Fuck, yeah, dude. You know. Yeah, I love that bro. Fuck a kidney stone board. We also knew shit.”

Yeah. Yeah. But one of the, one of the beautiful things about, yeah, my boogers aren't even just mine. Yeah. And now, yeah, he's got everything. Shit, pissed, puked boogers and, you know, tears and everything.

But man, one of the big things that I felt like a shift in is that, you know, music has always been

like the most important thing to me. It's like been my, the way I've survived. It's been my social currency. It's been my survival tactic. It's been my coping mechanism. It's been everything. And it's always been the most important thing to me. My guitar is my best friend. There's nothing that comes before that, you know. And I used to be so worried about the music, like even just on stage where I'm so concerned about playing well, singing well, performing good,

probably because I don't want to go back to where I was, like being poor and not having food and just living in squalor and kind of having a shitty life and, you know, see the uncertainty of it all.

“Yeah, and just like, you know, when you don't have food at sucks, you know. And so I think ever”

since I started like making money, playing music or just making a living off of it, you know. Like, I'm like, oh man, I have to every time I step on stage, I have to just kill it. Otherwise, like, I could go back to that. Right. Like, the pendulum is there every single time. Yeah,

dude, I feel that same way. And it's like, I'm always like running away from, you know,

I'm never like running towards success. It's like away from poverty. And, um, and I'm scared that this is all going to go away and I'm going to end up in some trailer smoking foils again or whatever. And so I have strangled the life out of the music before because I've been so concerned about playing well that I'm playing hard and I'm thinking and I'm like trying to lead the band and I'm just like, all this crazy stuff and it's like, man, that's not really the way to go about it, you know.

And at the end of the day, we're just playing music here. It's not the end of the fucking world if you play a wrong note or you forget a couple lyrics or whatever. Dude, nobody cares. It's nobody's going to get hurt. It's not a big deal. But to me, it is. Like, if I have a bad gig, dude, I'll be depressed for days, you know, or something. That just happened recently, really. Dude, who's your therapist, man? I told, I want your therapist. Uh, well, her name is Dr.

Okay. She's in Nashville. Is she? Yeah. Dude, Bush, because some of the stuff you're saying, it's like exactly like, I've just felt, sometimes like in my life, dude, it's like I feel like like one little thing goes wrong. It's like it's going to, like, everything depends on me. It's not true. But it's like, and it's not everything does. Like, like, like, I'm like, I'm some kind of god or something. But it's just like, dude, you're a famous man. But it's like, but it's like every, it's like,

nothing, everything has to go this way or I can't even explain it exactly. But everything feels like a lot of pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Because you got all these eyes on you. Well, how my own eyes on me. It's like, my, I won't, my, I fucking, I'm under my own microscope, you know. Yeah. But it's like, yeah, it's just like, um, I don't know, I just, I don't get myself enough room to breathe in there where it's like, hey, man, we're having a good time. It's kind of, we're having a comedy.

You know, it's like, we're doing, it's like, we're making laughter. And at a certain point, sometimes it's like, you almost start to lose some of the laughter because you're, it's like,

you're squeezing it to, yeah, everything feels so life or death kind of something. But it's always felt

“like sometimes you have to allow yourself to bomb, you know, to have those, like, to have those”

better shows, they can't always, they can't all be zingers. Yeah. You know, and you have to just realize that. And so that's kind of the beautiful thing about it is, like, when you're truly improvising, you're not always going to do it. Like, the ball team doesn't always win, you know, like, the red socks don't always win, even though they just did like 14 in a row or something. Yeah. Yeah. And I just went to like, yeah, one of my first ball games out there, that was pretty cool.

Did you? Yeah. Who was pitching you remember? No, I don't know. I don't know enough about that stuff. But I brought my son to that. It was, it was cool. But man, what I was getting at is like, when I had my son, when he was like brand new, and then I started going to play gigs again, like, all of a sudden, it's like, I don't give a shit if I play bad. I don't give a shit if I miss a few words. And instead of like, strangling the music, all of a sudden, I'm singing and play. I'm as long

man, then I can go play and sing, right? And I'm not only strangling the music less, which in turn, I'm playing much better and singing better. I'm singing from a place of joy in my belly. Yeah. I'm singing, you know, and I'm playing guitar free from the restrictions of fear. And I'm truly just letting it go. Yeah. And I'm playing out of desperation. Yeah. And I'm actually playing because it's fun. And I, you know, I get to go play. And I've just realized that,

I mean, I play and sing much better now. And I always also, every time I'm playing,

I have this little cosmic listener that I can just look out in the crowd, but I can picture river's face wherever he is in the world. And I can sing to him. He's my little guy, really? Yeah. And also, when I walk out the front door of my house to go get on the bus and go on tour, now I have a reason to provide for my family. I'm on an actual mission, right? Not just to go stoke my ego and to go, you know, like, oh, to go play and try to, whatever, keep doing this music

thing, right, that has always been the most important thing. It's like, no, it's not the most

“important thing. I am a musician. That's what I do. That's my job. But it's not the biggest thing in”

life. My family is. And that actually makes me play better because I'm not squeezing it so hard. And now I'm actually Lucy Goosey. It's like, when you look at a cheetah run, if you watch it on slowmo or something, it's like, they start in the faster they run, the looser they get, right? I mean, they start looking like a spaghetti noodle. And that's kind of how I feel my life is going right now. It's like, I'm looser now and I'm just kind of more flowing with it.

And I attribute so much of that to my son because he's the only thing that is really truly life or death like important to me. I mean, all of this stuff is important. My music is important. Yeah. My fans are important. My career is important. So what a gift he is. Yeah. But it's, it's not as important as as river. Yeah. So it's nice to have something that trumps, you know, the music that's more important than that. Do you think you need something like that

when you're looking at your life? Now, like you're even able to see that because due to as you're saying that, believe it's like, it's kind of funny because it's like, yeah, man, like, sometimes you get tired.

“Yeah, and some of the stuff you made me, it's just kind of brought up some emotions. I think there's”

night, there's something nice. I always feel something when a dad talks about his son, you know?

I think there's something about that that like, you know, all like, I don't know. It makes me feel something like that. I absolutely love it. You know, before I came over here today, I was working in the garage. I'm building him a little table. Like, yesterday, I went home depot when I got like a bunch of lumber and stuff. And I'm building him this little table for him to play with his master trucks on. And there's like this big ramp that comes down and they do a loop. And they,

and I saw this, me and him watch these YouTube videos. It's called our time for adventures or something. It's like this guy that just basically plays with these toy monster trucks. He's like, let's go racing and like river loves it. And dude, I love it. It's like, I sit there and watch him. And, you know, he just races these monster trucks. And so I'm building him like one of those tables like that.

“And that's what I was doing before I came over here this morning. It's like working on this”

table for my son. And, you know, just, just stuff like that. It's like, like, yeah, like that, you know, like that table. Oh, sweet. And it has these little things. He lets go of them and then they ramp. So I'm like building one of these for my little dude. And so you can have like a cool table to play with his master trucks on. He loves master trucks on. So fun, dude. Yeah. Do you almost get to have some childhood moments that you didn't get to have through your son, but you almost have them

like in reverse psychology. Does that make any sense? To you. Yeah, you get to view the world again

through these kind of more innocent eyes and more curiosity, which is an amazing thing, you know,

because I grew up really quick. I mean, I, like I said, by the time I was 13, I was, I moved out of my mom's house and I was, you know, I look at a 13 year old kid right now and I'm like, oh my god, I was like homeless at that time. Yeah, sleeping on couches, you know, like holy shit. I didn't really have, I mean, I had a good childhood for a little bit, but then I got things got kind of rough and feel like a lot of my childhood. I had to grow up too quick. Yeah, you know,

yeah, it's a great way to put it. So yeah, I just, man, I love playing with with my son and like just, you know, his little toys and watching like cars or whatever, like he loves lightning McQueen. And dude, I watched that movie so many times. It's so good. That's kind of nice. You get to do that

moved out and lived with some other people, but before that, for like about a year, I would go to

school each day and I'd stay with it like a different friend's family or something. Yeah, so it would be like, I'd be at school and all day. It's fun. I didn't think about this until just now. All day,

“part of my day was, how am I going to convince somebody at school today to let me stay over there?”

Yeah. So sometimes we get to like fourth period and shitty like fuck, I've already exhausted a couple of options, dude. I'm going to fucking have to stay with somebody I don't even know, dude. And sometimes if we get a little weir bro, like there was like two days, two nights I stayed with one of our janitor's families, we had a vice principal used to sleep in his trunk, the trunk of his car during fucking recess. And I go over there and I see him get in there a couple times. So one time,

I mentioned that to him like a little bit of like not like bartering like trying to like threaten to snitch, but a little bit me was like, dude, I fucking know what's going like, I don't know if he was smoking, I don't know what he was doing. But just the fact that he's over there sleeping in his trunk, I think he didn't want that information out there. And his wife worked at the other

school until they let me go stay over there for a couple nights. But I'd always remember I had this

big backpack and I had all because then I had all my stuff in it. Like it had my change of clothes and had my two brushes just had my stuff. So I was like, you know, I forget about sometimes like,

“I think you're right, just grown up quick. It's like the other stuff that you're thinking about,”

that other kids aren't thinking about probably, you know. In a lot of ways, I'm grateful for it. Yeah. Do you think, do you think like, so say you're a dad that doesn't get to be there as much as he wants for his son, right? Like maybe you like heard from listening to some of your dads like tapes and stuff from the voice males and the conversations you had with your grandmother, right? Just this all kind of a hypothetical thing. Or say you're the kid that didn't get this,

some of the experience he needed, right? Or some of the nurturing and like, or just like the connection that he needed, right? Do you think that like as a dad now like, you think it matters which side of that equation you're on or either side you can get the healing from one side. You know, I'm saying like, is there a little bit of healing you think for like the kids like a young person out there who maybe maybe didn't get some stuff? If they are able to apply themselves as a dad,

do you think that there's some healing like in some of that in the dad side of it? Does it make any sense? Sorry, I'm kind of yelling. I feel like some of that stuff gets me kind of animated.

“No, man, I think like does it make sense? Do you want to ask you? Yeah. And I think I am trying to like”

maybe heal some of my childhood through being his father. Yeah. And I think as he gets older and older, I will be able to do that, you know, just I want to like be present. That's part of the, you know, another part of the reason I quit smoking dope and stuff, you know. Yeah. I just want to be there. I want to be there. He looks at me with these big clear eyes. I want to be clear, you know. But yeah, just like it's a way for me to kind of, you know, redo my childhood and stuff.

Now, there's this other thing that I have. It's like this experiential density, like because of the hardships that I've been through and even as a young man, you know, teenager, young kid, I am able to have this perspective that I feel like a lot of people don't have. And I have this kind of like terminal uniqueness in a way that's like,

I never feel like anybody would know what it's like to be in my shoes. And like what I've been through,

what I've seen, the life I've had, you know, the trauma that I've dealt with, you know, because it's much more than just, you know, having parents that were on drugs. I mean, I was molested when I was a child. I was, you know, fucking satimize before I was, you know, seven years old or something, you know. And so that, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of shit. And I live on this island that I feel like nobody would ever understand what it's like to be me,

right? And so I think that's like more the negative side of it. But the experiential density, I think is kind of like I can use it as a positive thing where it's like, I have this perspective, like most people, like, you know, not most people, but a lot of people, you know, they grow up and their parents feed them and they buy them a car when they're 16 and everything's fine and like, I mean, I mean, that shit, you know, and I mean, I had to figure it out for myself.

And I have this perspective that a lot of, you know, by the time I was 15 or whatever, I was more of an adult than my teachers. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so one thing that I've kind of considered at one point was my wife and I, we were looking at houses in Nashville and we ended up just staying where we are and we're going to like do a renovation and stuff. But we were kind of how house shop in a little bit and, you know, I was looking around at these different houses and

half and they're like tall and skinny and it's like, man, yeah, I want to live in the country, you know, I don't, I don't like this. You don't want to live in a bunch of stairs. That's just some of this houses. You feel like a bunch of stairs. Yeah. It's like, where are you? I want to stay here. Yeah, like you look out the window and you can see your neighbor, you know, washing their dog or whatever. Yeah. And it's like, um, but as we were looking at these houses and I was looking at, you know,

there was a couple that we were kind of thinking about and I was like, man,

“is my son going to be a kid that grows up in a house like this, you know what I mean?”

Because I grew up in a moldy, meth house, you know, they didn't even have

a furnace, you know, we just had like a wood stove that always went out. Yeah, dude. Oh,

I'm looking for a fucking sinking dude. We'd have to have my, um, my mom's boyfriend would come and spray like this kind of foam under the fucking carpets that kind of even it out. Oh, yeah, it's just fucking retarded dude. I think our whole side of our apartment come up with a sinking. Yeah. But no judgment. Oh, you told me about your balcony. Oh, yeah, people fucking kept stealing it. The balcony would just fall off or whatever. What the heck, dude, people would kept stealing it,

bringing that picture up for more time, dude. Right there. That's the balcony? Yeah, it was. They put Christmas lights where it used to be like, which we know there was a balcony that's still a door there. What the heck? Dude, we would come home and somebody would have stolen our fence. Because there was a front, there was a front gate in front of the, like, of the apartment.

And then there was a, there was a balcony and people would steal it and then we,

“how do you steal a balcony and I'm for what reason? For the wood, just for the wood?”

Yeah, for the textiles. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and they would use it down at their joint with it. There's such a strange thing to steal. Yeah, balcony. But I think it was easily like, um, I think we didn't hammer in and go to whatever. They could just remove it, really. Yeah, I guess, throw it on a flat bed and get the hell out of there. I think from not a flat bed, people would fucking just run down the street with it on their bat, because it's three blocks away.

Somebody who have a new baby crib or something made out of half of it. Did we fucking know that neighborhood was, buh, nannus, dude. Bruh. Oh, yeah. I like to go check that place out sometime. Dude, you're home town. It was cool. Dude. I know how to go up to, uh, I own you sometime too. We're close. You wanted to be able to go up today and see some of it. But next summer we're going to have a

better plan and I'm just going to come and do a trip in Michigan. I want to go to Charlotte, boy, so bad. What about Charlotte, boy, is drawing you there? I just heard about it. It sounds kind of magical. I'm going to go to Traverse City. I understand, but like, I mean, Charlotte, boy, too. It's a nice place. Don't get me wrong. But I just feel like Traverse City would be like the more destination. Charlotte, boy, is like a smaller place, like outside of Traverse

City. There's like water there in Marina's and stuff like that. But I guess I just can't imagine it. Dude, we went into like Michigan yesterday. Um, dude, we took a ride on a boat in the Chicago River and dude. It was the cool, one of the cool things I've ever seen through the city. Oh, wow. It just, if you ever get a chance, honestly, it really is like, because I just couldn't even believe it.

Like, and I was like, oh, I've never gotten a go like on a boat through like a middle of a city,

kind of, I know you can do that here in Grand Rapids, but it's just like, you know, Chicago's just a bigger entity there. Kind of like reminds me of like Amsterdam or something. There's all those little canal. Oh, yeah, Venice and Amsterdam. Oh, yeah. Amsterdam has a ton of them. Dude, um, what about, uh, what's that island place with the dunes? You've ever seen that place? The sleep sleep in Bear Dunes. Is that cool? It's very cool. Yeah, dude. I heard about that. Yeah,

that's a beautiful place. Michigan has some like damn near tropical like paradise like, like, look at that blue water dude. There's not water like that anywhere. And it's fresh water.

“Bro, that's what I'm saying. Like, even when I got into Lake Michigan yet in Chicago,”

like we went off, like off the coast a little bit. I could, I'd never knew it existed like that. Like I knew the lakes were there. But, yeah, we got to keep it a secret, bro. We shouldn't even talk about that. Okay. I don't want any more people. No, some stuff, some stuff. You want to keep it a secret. But we went to that field of dreams baseball game. Where was that a, um, Dyer's Villay? Well, you ever seen that movie? It's an old movie. Yeah. Yeah. So we went to Dyer's Villay.

Oh, I saw a video. You ate a bunch of peanuts. Oh, yeah, dude. I ate like six bags of peanuts. I ate almost four, probably four hundred peanuts. The guy like, each peanut has like two, sometimes three. So you might eat eight hundred and some. I don't even think about that. You know what I mean? Yeah, because each peanut, a peanut has two nuts in it. So if you ate four hundred and twenty, you might eat eight hundred and eighty, do peanuts. Fuck yeah. I don't even think of that.

That's fucking close to a thousand, bro. Yeah. Fuck you. I don't want to say it, bro. Next time break at the thousand. Yeah, you right, you right. Yeah. I'm going to run for Mirov Chicago now, dude. If I can eat that many peanuts at a ball game, dude, the guy came over and then

they were pests that we created so much like, probably usable material for NASA and shit.

“But um, but it was that, yeah, dude. That was just a great experience. I just love them.”

I don't know. I love them Midwest. I love the people. I've always heard about, um,

yeah, there's some of them come out of the corn. Came out of the corn. No way. Yeah. One came out of the closet like the hood. Dude, one day it's epic. And you even had a corn like built up to walk up to and stuff like that. And um, I got to meet Patrick Renner, the guy from Sandlot. He was the great Hembino in Sandlot. And then just got to see some of the players. They had Joe Mower, Scott Rollin, Lee Smith, the Hawk Andre Dawson. Joe Ryan was there.

Yeah. And the twins, uh, they gave me a new hat too. Nice. Yeah. I see you've been rocking that Detroit hat pretty heavy. Dude, yeah, well, because one of the nicest or like one of the dopest squads that ever came out to see me, like the guys that ever came to see me play with some of the, uh, Tigers guys came one time to see game Roger, school, school, um, carpenter, some, just some of their different pitchers came out. And it was just awesome dude. And they like, we're just, it was like,

probably two or three years ago. And there was like a little, there were younger and just like, their energy was like, they were just fucking like ecstatic. But they were all like really nice guys. So that was a good experience dude. That's sick to see that old English dea theory. And then here I am in Michigan, which is kind of crazy like the things you kind of like maybe I didn't know that I would be here today, you know. Yeah. And getting to spend time with you dude, um,

dude, thanks so much for just kind of thinking about some stuff. I, uh, I want to ask you,

“I want you to see if you can tell me this story. I know you got to meet Bob Dylan, right?”

Can you tell me that story? You do when I want to tell that. Sure. You can. Yeah. Yeah. So we were on tour with, uh, Willie and Bob. And this is one of my favorite stories, dude.

Yeah. And, you know, I don't take this for granted, you know. I remember when the thing first came

to me that the offer, um, it was kind of put to me in a way that was like, okay, well we could go do our own tour and like probably make a lot more money, or we could go on this tour as an opener, but we're going to be able to, you know, go tour with Bob Dylan and Willie. And it's like, dude, we're going with Bob and Willie. He kid me? Of course. And so every night we played with them, me and the band would like finish our set, we would hurry up and go back to the green room, like,

you know, have a snack or whatever, and then like get right back out there, get our good seats. Sometimes just on the side of the stage and watch Bob Dylan play and then watch Willie play. You know, and so it was just, every night was just like, we watched them intently every night, because like I said, we do not take this for granted. So, actually, I need to rewind a bit to, to tell you the story about Bob Dylan. Somebody had told me, T-bone Burnett actually told me,

he was a Nashville. Yeah. He's friends with Jeff Bridges. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love Jeff. Dude, ain't crazy heart. Yeah. Such a good movie. Yeah. Um, but so T-bone's like, hey, man, Bob Dylan's like a big fan of yours. He keeps bringing you up and stuff. And I'm like, what? You know, it's crazy. And then my manager says that one of Bob's people, his, one of his managers or something,

“kind of just told my manager, Bill, the best way to get a hold of Bob is to write him a letter.”

He likes letters. So, I was going to write him a letter, and uh, and I remember I was staying at St. Cecilia in Austin. And I walked in the room and they had this really great paper there, like this stock paper. And I thought, well, this would be cool, because it's from like a hip hotel, and it's nice paper. I'm going to take this paper. This is what I'm going to write my letter to Bob

Dylan on. And then I never did a whole year past. I procrastinated. And then the next year,

past, we're doing Austin City limits or something. I was in Austin again. And I stayed at the St. Cecilia again. And I walked in that same room, my stayed in last time. And I saw that paper again, a year later. And I go, man, screw this. And I just set my backpack down in my luggage. I grabbed that paper, and I went straight up to the cafe, and I had a coffee and some eggs. And I sat there and wrote Bob Dylan a letter. Just basically, you know, saying thank you and

just thank you, you know. And telling him about how I love the way Doc Watson used to play his songs and stuff. And so after that, you know, I had heard that Bob was excited about this letter that

right? And we get on that tour. We play like couple gigs. And we're open and for Bob.

“And then one night after our set, before Bob goes on stage, um, well, that was when I said,”

and actually the first time I met him was at the Hollywood Bowl. And I was standing back stage after

his set, uh, and my security guy, Jim was like, here, stand over here. And I just thought, like, I was in the way like they were going to move some road cases or something. But no, Bob was coming off stage in this huge north-face parka. And, uh, right as he was walking by, somebody was like, hey, that was a great set, Billy, and he stopped in his tracks, and he was like, Billy, and he walked right up to me, and he was like, man, thank you for the letter. And I was like, man, thank you, Bob, for the music,

you know, and he shook my hand. Oh, yeah. And with his hand. Yeah, with Bob Dylan's hand, he shook my hand. And yeah, my hand is like tingling right now, just talking about it. Every time I talk about this story, my hand starts tingling. That whole night, it's like vibrating. Um, I shook his hand. And I looked him in the eyes, and he said, you know, thanks for the letter.

“And I told him, thank you for the music. And, and then he walked away. And did you have a good hand?”

He was, yeah, it was nice little hand. And, uh, and uh, that whole night, my hand was just tingling. Like, it was, it was like, I touched a magic crystal or something, you know. And, so now every time I tell this story, it does the same thing. But later that night, I was like, it's either like, some crazy, beautiful energy. Like, he's just got this magic, or it's like, you know, some leftover band gay or something is what I was thinking. Um, yeah. But then, so like, the next night

on tour, or yeah, a night or two later, we played our set. And I'm sitting in the green room. And then, I was like smoking a bowl or something. And then this lady walked in and she's like, Bob wants you to play with him tonight. And I was like, what? And she's like, are you too stoned? And I was like, no, I'm, I'm not stoned enough, you know. So I'm like, okay, fuck you guys, it's happening. Bob asked me to sit in. So I'm, I'm like, walking out to my bus,

because I know his band, they all wear black and stuff. So I was like, I got a black shirt. I can put my hair in a ponytail, get a little bit more classy, like an up a little me darken out. Yeah, for, but to get a little bit more classy than whatever t-shirt I had on. Right. You know, I'm fixing to play with Bob Dylan. I want to go put a nice shirt on. Yeah. And pull my hair back. Oh, yeah. And as I was walking out to the bus, I saw him. He was walking right toward me.

And he just came up to me and he said, um, he said, you know, let's do all along the watch tower. He's like, you know, I'm seeing the first verse in second verse. He'd play after the second verse, you know, and then he walked away. Like, he didn't say, hi, he didn't say, thanks for playing or nothing. He said, let's do the watch tower play after the second verse. This information. And then on this way to the stage, you know,

I was like, oh, man, this guy means business. Yeah. So I went to my bus. I got my nice digs on and then I was, you know, texting my mom and dad and, you know, I called my mom. I was like,

you're not going to believe this. What did she say? She just, she was always over the moon about

stuff like that. She's, she called me her dream weaver is what she called. She's like, who are you going to play with next? You know, because I all, so many of her heroes I had met and played with, you know, I, or, you know, mom, I just met Eddie Vetter or, you know, mom, you know, not going to believe this on David Grisman or, you know, Del McCurry and, you know, all this stuff. And then morally wouldn't mat more recently, Stevie Nicks. I never met her, but that would be a crazy collab

with you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I was like, I was like, I'm getting ready to go play with

“Bob Dylan. She's like, what the fuck, you know, like, who, who are you, like, who do you think you are?”

It's like, I don't know. He just asked me to play. So, so yeah, so you're so good. So, yeah, I go out there

and, um, it was amazing. I mean, we, we played the cool thing about that too is that whole tour that

was my favorite song that they were doing. I mean, I love all along the watch tower. And of course, Jimmy Hendrix's version, but they had this cool arrangement of it. And it was like such a hip version of it. And I just, that was my favorite tune that they were doing. And that's the one he asked me to play on. Just like, wow, you know, and so yeah, he sang, sang the second verse, and then he kind of looked over at me and I played, passed it back to him. We had a little musical conversation. And then

off stage. And I go in the green room and like, my whole band is like so excited. They're like making toasts and shit. Yeah, you know, especially my base player Royal has like just been in a huge Bob Dylan kicked the last couple of years. We just couldn't believe this happened really. Shout out Royal. Yeah. So then we're sitting in the green room. And we're all just like,

oh my god, that was amazing. And then Jim, my security guy, he, he comes in and he says,

hey, somebody wants to say hi. And in my green room, he walks Bob Dylan. And he's sucked the oxygen out of the room. He's like, everybody just like fell silent and like couldn't breathe. And then he was like, man, you know, thanks for playing like that was awesome. And, and I go, man, thank you for having me, man, I was just, I'm such an honor to play with you, you know, and and I was like, I want to introduce you to my band, you know, this is Royal and Billy and stuff like that.

And then I, you know, he just like turned around and walked away. I was like, what? No way, dude. And then a couple of days after the busy Bob, dude, he dipped. He was,

he was like, and then just left. Yeah. And then, um, and we loved it. I thought it was amazing. Oh,

it's fucking almost, but we almost, it, it's even better. Yeah. That's the most lower shit you could do. Dude, he just littered. I was like, I want you to introduce you to my band and he just turned around and left. He was like, wow. Yes. What a badass. And then so he, yes, dude. A couple nights later, he sent me a message through one of his managers and it just said, you know, thanks for playing,

“like, I think you're great. And he said, like, my friend Jerry Lee told me a long time ago,”

he said, you're going to be around for a long, long time. And I just, man, I like, was in the back of my bus, like reading this and just cried. You know, I mean, this Bob Dylan

kind of pat me on the back. And so first of all, it's unbelievable, dude. It's such a great story.

It's like I can feel it, dude. It's almost like I'm like, yeah, dude. Well, no one of the craziest things is that the few interactions I had with them, which was like three or four over the course of a couple days. And I talked to him and I looked at his face and I spoke directly to him and I looked in his eyes. I can't picture his face. I can't picture. I didn't see the skin when I think about him what he looked like. All I see is these deep oceans of blue in these deep concern concerning

“eyes and this like white light behind them. That's what I picture when I think about what”

did Bob Dylan look like to me. All I can see is these the deepest blueist eyes with the most concerning emotion in them. And then this like aura of like white light. That's what Bob looks like to me in my memory. Yeah. I can't remember his face, you know? Like, yeah, like it's almost something that's like almost like maybe from another realm or something like, I think godly, yeah, like God's concern like shows up in our eyes, I think. So maybe he just has a lot of like concern from the other

side, you know? Yeah, and it's not a paranoid concern. It's more of like a compassion and an a like like a love like from an elder, you know? Yeah, me like in a kind of semi-aggressive intrigue, kind of like a some kind of musical grandpa, you know? Yeah, dude Bob Dylan, bro. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's a trip. And then like little while after that I got to play and make music in the studio with Edgar Winter and he was like one of my mom's favorites, you know, him and

Edgar at Gawinter at Uels. Yeah. Well, Johnny Winter is his brother. Johnny Winter bring up a petrol as you guys let me get a gander at him. Yeah, they look like, um, oh, wow. They kind of look like

“Targaryens, man. They're albino. Yeah, a little seal, a little bit, you know, you see it is?”

No. But Johnny Winter is one of the best guitar players to ever live, man. Oh my god. He's one of the best little skinny, scrawny albino dude. And he, you know, he played with muddy waters and also, just, she was one of the best blues players ever, man. Played with the slide, played, you know, acoustic, everything. But he's, he's the man. And then Edgar Winter, you know, you've heard like

that was an instrumental song called Frankenstein. You ever remember that?

And the cool thing about that is that it's a talk tool. Yeah, no, he's actually become a good friend of mine. He came and played with us at Bridgestone Arena when we played. And we were in the studio for, for like a day or two, working on some stuff for his record. That's going to come out at some point. But yeah, Edgar Winter is one of the sweetest sweetest people. And Johnny's, Johnny's alive, too.

“He passed away, hmm, one of the best way, like 2012 or maybe a little bit after that,”

2014. Yeah, 2014. Oh, they're sweet. Well, no, that's where he died as in Switzerland. And he, they're from Texas. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was on the road. Wow. Think he died in his hotel room. Oh, yeah. That was my, that was my mom's dog right there. Really? She loved him. I'm not to listen to some of their music today in honor for me on our ride later. Yeah, listen to like just the soft title Johnny Winter album from 1969. And then for Edgar Winter,

listen to White Trash. Like, it's just some of the funkiest stuff you're ever going to hear, man.

They got this one too. It's the first track on the record called Give It Everything You Got.

And I remember I was, I was tripping hard on acid one day. And I was down by the river and I slipped. And I fell down this mudbank. And I landed like waist deep in the water. And I was just splashing. It was also October and Michigan was kind of cold. Yeah. But I, I got out and I climbed back up the

“bank and I was soaking wet, but I didn't feel it. Oh, yeah, because I just, I think my brain was wet.”

Oh, yeah, because you were having a good time. Yeah, and I was already tripping. And so I walk home and I'm stopping and you know, I walk in my mom's back door. And she's like, what are you doing? I was like, well, I took some acid and I went and fell in the river. She's like, oh, you're on acid. And she drops the needle on, give it everything you got. She put that record on for me to hear. And I just sat there in front of the speakers and I listened to that. And when the song ended, I moved the

needle back over and I listened to it again. And I listened to it again. I just, I was in this loop of give it everything you got. There's these crazy saxophone soloes and everything's pan stereo and it goes right to left and it's just dude, it's, it's so good. That whole album is good. And um, there's a couple tunes on there called one called Fly Away that I can hardly listen to without crying, because it was one of my mom's songs and it really reminds me of her. That's called,

and then that's the Johnny Winner's album. That's the Edgar Winter album called White Trash White Trash. Yeah, and then the Johnny Winter record is just, it's just called Johnny Winter.

“Hmm. Yeah. Dude, what a crazy pair of brothers they must have been, couldn't you even imagine?”

Oh man, they were, they were really musical, you know, and Edgar's, he's amazing. I wish I would have been able to meet Johnny, but, you know, I've, I've listened to a lot of his music and um, I just love him dearly. Mm-hmm. Gosh. So, I feel so lucky to have been exposed to good music like that from my parents, you know, they, as far as I'm concerned, man, they listen to good music and they taught me about it, you know, and so that's the thing is like when I was

in middle school and stuff, I mean, I don't know what kids were listening to back then,

I wasn't listening to that. I was listening to, you know, John Lennon or whatever. My teachers always thought

I was kind of like, who is this kid? Man, he's like, wearing a gym Morris and T-shirt, you know, like, what's he doing? Yeah. Yeah. Like how does this end? And I'm like going to the library like trying to find books about like Janice Chaplin and stuff, and I'm just like in sixth grade or whatever. Yeah. Some of my teachers thought that was really cool. The ones that were like around in the sixties and stuff, the older cats. Yeah. I used to get like, almost want to say like special

treatment or something because of that, because like some of my teachers that were old hippies are like, man, this cat's sick. Oh, dude. Yeah. If you're a teacher, if they, if you're if you're in a something that they're into kind of, or they think there's something a little bit different about you, I think it makes sense that a teacher would be like, oh, this kid's cool. There's something going on with this kid. I'm curious to see like we had this teacher named Miss Plash and she was

cool man. She was like our poetry teacher and we go in there and it's like all the misfit kind of kids were in there and you'd have like, you know, people that are where extra lipstick on different parts of their face and shit and like, um, and uh, and we go in there and we got to write poetry and it was kind of this weird group. Like, we're not weird, but it was just like this like, um, I don't know. It was this group of, it was just different than the norm. And it was like a place where

to do that. Like in regular school, you know, like, let's you're talking like one on mom of the

buddy, but just like to go in there and write poems and like think of things together and you go in there and like they'd have a lot of like, some, some kids ever in kind of like, I don't want to say school, shooty, garb or whatever, but just like, you know, we'd have like kids wearing like uh, I'm trying to think of um, maybe like sometimes like trench coatier does like big combat boots and yeah combat boots, dude, we'd have like um, dot martens, right? And the higher the dot martin,

like kind of the like it got to a level where it was like normal kind of wild and then it's like

“and then like someone was like kind of perverse or whatever. I think a little bit like way up to the”

side. Yeah, like way up to the coup to even, you know, it was like damn dude, you have definitely no hood hopper. Yeah, yeah, we have no ranker. Yeah. But it would just be like, I don't know, and you'd see like,

I did have like a hippie girl in there who never wore a bra and that would make you fucking go

to class every single day, bro, because you could just, if you close your eyes, you could just hear her tits. You know, like it was just that age, but we had that much hormones when you were in high school, you had to close your eyes. You could just hear somebody's tits, dude. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, they sound so soft. Oh, welcome to Ohio, brother. Yeah. I just feel like that's the most of why I don't think ever. Um, dude, thanks so much, man, I'm excited about your new album. Can you

just tell me like one or two things about it? I've read somewhere that it's a, um, that it's an

“honor of your mother. Yeah. Um, you know, I think a lot of it, you know, I was writing when”

shortly after she passed and stuff. So yeah, it's kind of dedicated to her and kind of an interesting thing. I mean, I, I, I kept wanting to call it so much for good buys and I just, I was thinking about that for a while and because that didn't get a chance to say goodbye to my mother. Hmm. So that's kind of how I thought about it was like, well, so much for good buys, you know, I guess I'm not going to get a chance to say bye. And when I, I brought it up to my manager, I said, I think I'm

going to call the records so much for good buys. And he was like, man, that's cool. It's like, you know, because it's not really good buy. It's just like farewell for now, right? Hmm. And I was like, oh, that's not really how I was thinking of it. But yeah, that's kind of more positive thing. He like, so much for good buys. Like, it doesn't even, that doesn't matter. Yeah, because it's, you know, she's still kind of with me, no matter what. Oh, I'm sure she's hitchhiking dude. She might have just

got tired of kind of rocking from this galaxy. She might have just be hitchhiking out there. She's probably in Sedona somewhere and some, you know. Oh, she's probably freaking nested up in a wind charm somewhere if I can live in it up. Yeah, totally. You know, yeah, but I do believe that when we think about other people when we speak their name out loud, when we make music for them,

“when we pray for them, I believe that people can feel all of that. Yeah. I don't really even”

doubt it because it just feels so bigger than us. Yeah, you know, right after she died, I kept, there were so many little things that I would feel, you know, like just these like certain animals would come around or whatever and like a dragonfly or I'd see a dough with like two fonds and I'm like, man, it would just break my heart, you know, I mean, it's like, that's my mom and that's me and my brother or whatever. And for a minute there, it was like pissing me off. It's like,

I don't want to fucking dragonfly. Like I want my mom. Yeah. Like fuck that dragonfly. You know, but now I like, I look for those things, you know, a cloud or whatever it is, just the way the breeze feels. But my mom, she was an amazing artist. She would constantly be calling me saying, hey, I took this hub cap and glued this to that and I made this little alien, you know, battle

and I did this and, you know, and so she always made this stuff. And this was actually the piece

that she was working on the night that she died because she was always going to make the next record cover. That was kind of our deal. So this, this thing that's in the frame with the hand and the little crystal ball and stuff like that. It was unfinished. So we kind of like filled the back in with some portraits and stuff like that. But but this was the last piece that she was working on. Right. And it kind of encapsulate, it really, and, you know, it gives her essence of just kind of how

she was. I mean, she was, she was like a million little things all glued together and very, they were destined. And so that's the art that we chose for the cover. And, you know, she got to make the the record cover like she wanted to. So stoked on that. And yeah, the songs,

tune on there called wrestling in angel. There's one called still eye crash, which is like pretty

“much me exactly. I think I wrote that like a days after she passed just like me speaking to her,”

you know, talking about how I just feel like I've got to learn how to walk all over again. You know, I feel like a baby deer and my legs are all wobbly and I'm just trying to learn how to stand up on my own this time, you know, without her and it's, you know. So it's a pretty a deep record, but there's some good stuff on there. You know, there's some bluegrass on there and that miltown flood. That's like a real, there's like some real characters that really were from

me where back in the day and stuff. Really? Yeah. Yeah, you know, I grew up in me where Michigan, which is like, yeah, remember you talking about that? Yeah, it's like there's like 600 people that live there or something. And nowadays it's kind of like a little just a tiny little town doesn't have that much poppin, but back in the 1800s, it was like kind of poppin, you know, like there was like this whole little strip and they had these gristle mills and saw mills and they would float the logs

down the Grand River down to the sawmill and then they'd chop it all up and then when the um, the the railroad came through there, then they could put all that lumber on the railroad and ship it out to, you know, Milwaukee or whatever. Yeah. And um, and so it was a hustling, a hustling little place. There's this guy named Darwin Lyon. He was the station agent at the the Grand trunk railroads Montrose station, which was later named Muir. But yes, so he was the station agent there in Muir

and this family, the blanched family was like some of the first people that like settled there

and started, you know, making shit happen. And so I like used some of those characters and then

“kind of made this like sort of fictional story about some actual non-fictional characters, you know?”

So I like that tune. I think that was a cool thing. I just I've been infatuated with like the history of the area. I'm like, you know, just the Grand River Valley. All right. Well, no, you have you ever got to give your uh, freak fair? Is it freak, fast? I own your freak fair. Yeah, I own your freak fair. And that's something you started, right? Yeah. Yeah. But I just think it's also to create something that people from the area can be a part of, you know, like, um, I mean, I've been trying

to do this for years. I've been wanting to bring a festival to my hometown for a while now. But yeah, we got a bunch of good bands coming, uh, you know, green sky, leftover salmon, here, a hole, Michael Cleveland in the flame keeper. Yep, Lindsey, Lindsey Lou. And then we're going to have like a, um, this tent where we're going to have some metal bands, bane, cryptopsie, flesh and blood robot. See you next Tuesday for the fallen dreams. Some of these bands I used to run around with

uh, back in the day when I played in metal bands and stuff. Oh, full cord. Yeah. Do that's so cool, bro. What a great thing to just bring to your area. Just a great week in a music. It's going to be sick. That's like in two. That's like in for a freaking two weeks. Yeah, man. It's going to be awesome. Hell yeah. Yeah, dude. Thanks so much, man. Just for catching up today and stuff for inviting us here, like just to be in Grand Rapids, like, um, it's cool, man. I remember when I

came here, uh, we did a show here. And it was great. I actually have a friend that named Paul that lives here that I just realized on the way in town. You know, if I'm going to be able to get to see him, but I love you, Paul. I remember when I was used to working, I was dishwasher. He and I was on

bus boys at this restaurant. And I found a, uh, Abbey Road cassette tape. It was the first time

I'd ever heard the Beatles. And I put it in my, uh, in my, I had a 84, four desk where I put it in there. Do not listen to that for probably three years, dude. Yeah. I just saw your film bus boys. Oh, you saw it. I loved it. Did you? I left my ass off dude. So I didn't know you were in that actual bus boy at one point. Oh, yeah, bro. I was in the trenches. Dude, I was one of the first bus boys to use creatine regularly. I was, man. We fucking did a good job on it. Bro, there was an

a fucking dish. Dude, I'll say this. West to the Mississippi. There wasn't a dish that I couldn't that I couldn't fuck with. Yeah. I was fucking good bro. I was good. I loved it so much.

“And then I think I got caught up and drugs that brought me down a little bit. Was it really”

like that though? Like the, the servers were like, oh, hot shit. Oh, yeah. They were good looking in shit. And they would all fuck or whatever. And you couldn't, you like, they looked at you. Like,

But yeah, dude, and we had to do bro. We had this dude named Todd. He was, he was like part of

“some work release program there in Arizona. That's why I did it at. And he would fucking be”

each. They had a chain. He would be chained like this fucking pizza oven that he was over there working. But they had like a six foot chain that he couldn't leave like the area or whatever. Dude, our freaking chef got busted for mine illegal shrimp. One day like the, like, I guess the food and beverage. Like if you go high enough in that department, someone get guns or whatever. Because they came running in bro kicked open the back door. They had everybody on the ground.

And they like busted the place for like buying illegal shrimp. Cameronis. And I was like, what the fuck is going on? Wow. But yeah, bro. Thanks for checking it out, dude. It was a, it was, um, it was crazy to make it, dude. We went through so much. Yeah. But I think I would do something

“fun again like that. Dude, you should. It was awesome, man. Yeah. I love that. We did it all ourselves.”

Yeah. Yeah. And to make a film with David Space, probably. Oh, dude. Dream come true, right? I can't even. I mean, we all grew up on fucking Joe dirt. Dude, he shot. He did Joe dirt. I think they did Joe dirt too. And they shot it and coming to Louisiana, which is probably enough to tell them that I grew up in. No shit. Yeah. And then the years later, and I, he became friends and he's shooting up growing ups three right now out of New Jersey. But dude, I used to love just how just mean

everybody is to Joe dirt. He was such bullshit. Like the very first scene, he like pulls up and,

you know, the guys like, why don't you just drive this piece, shit off, cliff and do us all of favor. You know, and then kid rocks like such a dick to him. And the crazy part is, is that, the, them know each other's one of the reasons that I even got to meet kid rocks. So it just, it just, I don't know, life's the weirdest thing, isn't it? It is weird. Isn't it the weirdest thing? I mean, yeah, it's, I feel like my life definitely is, but I feel like probably everybody feels that way.

“Yeah. I think it's true. I think if you get out and try and just put yourself into life that”

there's like things happen. Yes. These pathways, they connect and there's, there's all these circles that eventually you run back into the other side of that other circle or something, you know? Yeah. Dreams get weaved, man. Yeah. Yeah. Dreams get weaved, dude. If you feel comfortable, you want to play a song for us on the way out? Sure. Is there something? I want to ask you to, I have a couple of questions really quick. We have a quick segment that we do with the mountain

do since you brought it up so many times. Can I ask you one or two questions? Yeah. All right. What should I give this drive around? Yeah, it's sugar free. I haven't had Mountain Dew and fucking you brought that stuff. There you go. Yeah. Hell yeah. It's good. Wow, it's been, that's a blast from the past. Not even Baja. Oh, he's regular. And when they came out with code red dude and people were like, this is for Valentine's own, or whatever. Like rich people or whatever. Yeah, code red is like,

fucking, that's like chew and five gum. Yeah. Yeah. What's good? Oh, sugar. Don't even have to worry about it. That's your sugar's kind of a vibe, too. Same feeling. No sugar. It actually just tastes like

Mountain Dew. Yeah. Did you ever go to summer camp? No, I never went to summer camp.

I don't even know, I didn't even know there was an option. But I did one time our school when I was in like sixth grade, I think took us to like this winter camp. And that was like, you know, we were all like sledding and shit. And I remember me and Mike Borton and Travis Rogers, we're always trying to go like sneak over and see these girls in their cabin and shit. I remember like, who was it back in the day? Marissa Smith, Anna Conrad, and like Richa Renucci,

and stuff. All the Renucci girls were dime is bro. I don't know, but I just know I could only imagine and I like to imagine. Yeah. I had a big crush on Marissa Smith, but I was too shy and bro. Just way too shy, bro. Dude, I had a freaking crush on this one girl. Um, this one girl Amanda. Dude, I had the fucking biggest crush on her. This girl, I had a crush on her, dude. And I only only thing I could do. I drew pictures of her on my wall at home all the time. And my mom got so

I was like, I like loved her so much. And then I would just sit and up and get him, like spanked forward or whatever or beaten or whatever. I don't say beaten because you can't say anymore, but we used to call it beaten. So, but yeah, winter. Yeah, winter camp. That's kind of what it was, but a couple of my friends, my friend Matt and my friend Brendan just dropped their kids off for summer camp just recently. Yeah. And so they're out there having fun. Yeah, dude, I wish I had

a going to summer camp. We go when we went like YMCA summer camp, but everybody got really bad

“allergies. I think the field they put us in was like the wall and field. Yes, it was like,”

it was just like a right on the edge of a pine forest. And like the whole thing was just so much pollen. And people, you try to play kickball, but like two minutes into the game, people couldn't see or play it. Like it was people just standing around the sun. Dude, I remember this one kid is out of you to get so bad he would just put his hands straight up in the air. Almost like the cops were like the cops were getting him or whatever. But dude, it would be so bad. And then we

had eat these hot launches because there was no word of the keeper or lunches, colds like just like baloney and cheese like and it was just like you would just sweat all day and then your mom

would finally come get you like in the beginning you would be excited. And at the end you like,

please mom come get me. And then one kid who was kind of like mentally challenged or whatever, but he would do he would move and walk all day. And in the morning everybody's like you're a loser by the end of the day. Everybody's just like watching him dance. Oh yeah. If you were doing a road trip, does it the last question? If you were doing a road trip, what small town would you go to or would you suggest someone go to? Oh, I have to think about this for a moment. Yes, we're a nice one

in Michigan. I know the raw but is it a nice one that you suggest I mean? Oh, like um, I mean there's so many small towns around here like if you drive in any direction you're going to find like these tiny little towns that have been there for ages but there's just tiny like there's one called

“Sparta um you know greenville building and stuff but honestly I own you as a nice one. I was”

going to say mirror you know but that's I'm obviously biased but that's okay. It's a beautiful place. I mean it's the maple river runs through there and it's it's a tiny little town. There's there's some history there. There's not much there. You might get all the copper wires stolen out of your vehicle or something. They need it. Yeah. Village of mirror right there. Show it to me. Well dude my town coming to Louisiana is a small town but dude I went back not long ago and I was

just walking around downtown. It's great. Yeah. There's a lot of like nice like it first of all there's a lot of great people and it's it's changing and I didn't know if I expected that when I was growing

up there like it's always been a place with like great story telling and just like like kind of

mystery and stuff like that in intrigue but it's turned into like the most beautiful little town. Village of mirror right there. Is that you right there Billy? That is. Yeah. It's stopped. They put this sign up that says no hometown of Grammy winner Billy strings. It says 2021 but they need to put three time on there now. Well it's update that sign. I'm gonna donate to the coffers over there so they have enough money to update that sign dude. No joke. We're gonna reach out to the

“we're gonna reach out to the city council over there and see if we can't get that updated. Do we?”

We could buy the village market and turn it into a teddy bar or something. I think that'd be probably a good venture. Oh yeah as long as we keep someone like the produce section or something I mean I don't want people to still be able to get fresh stuff. Hell yeah. You know. Yeah because I'm not saying the city is won't be fresh but you know it's TBD man. Yeah I mean it'll be something. There might be some kind of pirate ask kind of things going on. Yeah dude. Yeah you

want to play one on the way up first girl you don't feel like after that we can also just call it a day.

Yeah I'd love to man. Would you really do? Yeah let's go. , yeah dude.

and kind of made me hungry. Yeah. Yeah so maybe we'll go get some of the eat after this but

“this will get us in the mood. All right.”

Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog. Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog. Off to the woods for the catcher ground home. Over on home. Run yourself with a snicker in the green.

Run yourself with a snicker in the green. Ground hog grease all over her chin. Over on home.

, there's meat in the covered in butter in the tray. Made in the covered in butter and tray. If that ain't ground hog, I'll be done. On end and more you can take it to yourself. Open on home.

Don't eat up the meat and save the height. Eat up the meat and save the height. The best

name. She was saying that every was tied. Oh, ground home. All look at the fillers. They're about to fall. Look at the fillers. They're about to fall. The eat till the bitches won't button at all. Over on home. Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog. Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog. Off to the woods for the catcher ground home. Over on home.

Over on home. Over on home. Over on home.

“Let's go. Groundhog, baby. God. You think they're good?”

Would you try one? Yeah. I would, too. Got all of it in it. You know, we're not probably, you know, I'd go in it with a bacon mindset probably to be honest with that. Yeah, but they're nice and greasy. They kind of get off easy, though, having all getting their name and not being like a costed for it, you know, not being put in that place. Well, yeah. Thank you, dude. Thank you, man.

Appreciate your brother. Thank you. Appreciate you, Jim Ant. Thank you so much. Of course.

“Anything else that you want to talk about or anything else you want to play to?”

I could try one off the new record. If you feel okay, but you don't feel like you have to.

that place and just that whole grand river valley there. And you ever go driving through your

“old hometown and just like look at your old haunts and just kind of get flooded with these memories.”

I'm one of those like real nostalgic types. I love nostalgia, man. Yeah. So, I had this tune that's called that. It's called. I'm one of those. I'm looking for the place I used to live. I've been driving up and down this road.

Trying to bring back old memories for one reason or another, I let go.

I'm one of those. I'm looking for the town where the river used to make a bend. But it's been too long and I'm a fool to try to find that place again. I'm one of those. Guess I had too much time on my hands on one of those. I could not find a place that I could land, I hope you don't. But if you do, you'll probably understand

that's how it goes. I'm one of those.

I've got a frame for shuffling the day, leaving town in the cover of the night, and I've advertised that money if I don't, I know I'll end up in a fight. Now that I go back to the place I loved to dwell. Where we sing our song and pass the drug around. Well, I went to all the ghosts that wandered back across this road upstricken down. I'm one of those. I guess I had too much time on my hands on one of those.

“I could not find a place that I could land, I hope you don't. But if you do, you'll probably understand that's how it goes.”

I'm one of those. Oh! Let's go! [Music] It's hard for folks to see through my disguise. I'm not home, but I can still pretend.

And if I were to left you crying, I might have to circle back this way again. I'm one of those. I guess I had too much time on my hands on one of those.

“I could not find a place that I could land, I hope you don't. But if you do, you'll probably understand that's how it goes.”

I'm one of those. I'm one of those. I'm one of those, man. Do that's magnificent, bro. Oh, thanks, man. Thank you so much, man. So much for a good bite. So much for a good bite. It comes out August 28th.

I'm one of those. Sometimes I spent so much time in the past. I'm not as tall, you know.

But a certain point you start missing out too much. Yeah, no, you got to look through the windshield, you know.

“Instead of in the rear view all the time. Yeah, they said that's why it's bigger. Somebody said that. I don't mean to say that.”

Yeah. Oh, yeah, you're not making a hand. You're giving everybody kisses. Yeah, this thing, just this best day. I've been on an wildest.

So much for a good bite. That's out August 28th, man.

But your mom was beautiful artwork right there. Yeah. Put a creative lady. What a creative family, man. You know? I don't, yeah. What a creative family you're a part of. And uh, .

“Trying to think on the first one, I did cocaine blues, cocaine, there's this little one”

knock it at it on there and even just for just for fun since we're sitting here. All right.

I've got the blues. Those national blues. I've got the blues. The national blues. I ain't got no hair. Ain't not no shoes. These people here. They treat me fine. These people here. They treat me fine. They treat me fine. They treat me fine. These people here. Those national blues. I've got the blues. Those national blues. Ain't got no hair. Ain't got no shoes.

“I'm going back. I'm not concerned. I'm going back to Arkansas. I'm going to stay right there.”

With the modern Pauls. I've got the blues. Those national blues. I've got the blues. Those national blues. I ain't got no hair. Ain't got no shoes. I've got the blues. Those national blues. I've got the blues. Those national blues. Ain't got no hair. Ain't got no shoes. So much for goodbye, man. Ain't got no hair or shoes there. He don't got no shoes or no hat.

You don't even have a goodbye right now. What a pleasure, man. Dude, Billy, thank you so much, bro. Thanks for coming. This is, man, just what a gift today to be able to sit and spend time with you to kind of go through whatever's been happening in your life and you just share stories so well, man. You dislike. I don't know. You're like a poor, you're kind of like this connector piece to the other side, man. It's nice.

So thank you, man. I appreciate it. I'm glad you're doing this road trip, man. Was able to swing on up through my stomping grounds a little bit. It's kind of nice to have you here in Grand Rapids, man. Yeah, we appreciate it, man. And yeah, and good luck with our freak fast. Yeah, and good luck with freak fast and Billy's strange, man. Can't thank you enough, dude. All right. I can't thank you enough. Keep your stick on the ice.

greasy side. Oh, I think both sides are greasy, but we'll do our best, man. Being bed by midnight, come home. Yeah, stay out of the tall weeds. Yeah, you're a gift to this world, man, and you're a gift to us today. Thank you so much, brother. Thank you. All righty.