#680 - Ultramarathoner Mark Dowdle

You can also get a product market, then you can get your first big enterprise.

With KaE, the development of the product is also the advantage of the development of the product. And that's the advantage of the product. The topic is how security and compliance are actually going to be. It's been a long time since the beginning.

“That's why many startups are happy and happy.”

And if it's going to be done, it's not just in the beginning. Yet starting Alfanta.com. He's an ultra endurance athlete. Known for running some of the most brutal marathons and existence. He just completed the last soul ultra in Germany.

395 miles in four days.

I enjoyed my time with today's guest, Mr. Mark Dowdall.

I will speak about the system. You can drop this down just a touch. Yeah, and if you need to move it or whatever, if something's getting weird, just do whatever you got to do. Yeah, do you're a freak bro? Like a nice freak.

I appreciate that. Not like a carnival one, but the race, the race you just won, it's called the last soul ultra marathon. You ran 395 miles in just under 94 hours without sleep.

“It's a backyard ultra for our listeners that do not know, can you explain what a backyard ultra marathon is?”

Sure. Yeah. A backyard ultra is when you run 4.167 miles or 6.7 kilometers every hour on the hour until one person's left. So it's also people call it the last person standing.

So you have 59 minutes and 59 seconds to complete this 4 mile loop. If you run it in 45 minutes, you get 15 minutes of rest. If you run it in 52 minutes, you get 8 minutes of rest. And you just keep doing the same loop over and over again until either you timeout. You physically can't go anymore or you mentally just are done.

The real obstacle of this race, yes, is the physical aspect to it, but it's dealing with the unknown because you don't know when the race is going to end.

“And so it's a constant battle between how do I stack up against these other people?”

And it's a big game of trying to bring yourself back to the present and not compare yourself of how you perceive your pain because we're all experiencing pain out there. But I can only feel my pain. And then I look at somebody else who might be doing a good job of posturing. And I will perceive myself as worse off or less than or not capable enough because of a

perception that I've created in my mind about who they are compared to myself. And so the thing I love about this race is yes, it's a physical thing, but it is like every loop, I have to make a commitment to say the story in my mind that I'm creating is not the full truth and can I take one more step and it is a constant recommitment to that process of like I can do this if I take one more step that's evidence I can keep going.

And it's the race is blown up a lot over the last couple of years and I think a lot of

it has to do with how accessible it is like if you've never run a mile in your life,

it's more digestible to say I can try and complete one loop of four miles over I'm going to sign up for a half marathon and do months of training to get to that point of being able to run 13 miles or 26.2 miles. You might have a lot of people sign up just like, oh, I can do four miles and I can at least do one loop.

And that's the beauty of it is we're all on the same loop at the same time. And so I go for almost four days and somebody out there went for three loops and the relationship to hard is equally as difficult for that person as it is to me. It is both of us trying to figure out how far can we go and then when we come up with obstacles, how can we just take one more step forward?

You said like this story in your mind that you start to create that I guess it's like a story of like defeat or that I can't like what what what what what stories do you notice your mind start to create? That's a great question. I think it is I'm not good enough.

I'm not capable enough. I'm not worthy enough. This race, the outcome of this race is going to determine my value or not.

like Cody who's here with us or my wife or my friend, Kellen who was out there at the

race is every time I get to go back into the tent where they're sitting. We I know in my heart of hearts even out when I'm on the course and I'm 60 hours into the race and the story starts to be crafted in my mind of I'm not good enough. I get to go back to a tent full of people that say not through their words necessarily but through their actions and through the trust we've built is like dude, whatever happens

here is not going to change how we feel about you, how we love you, we're going to be proud of you no matter what they just want me to be able to make a decision I'm going to be proud of at the end of the day and be able to honor my word, honor my commitment of taking that step when I know I'm able to and so that the narratives are constantly going of like trying to convince myself that I'm not done yet even though every logical

reason to stop has presented itself. Wow. So it's almost like you stop and get like an emotional hydration in a way. Yeah.

“So the funny thing is I think about it in terms of these like highs and lows of the”

first 24 hours are always the most difficult because I haven't invested enough into the

experience to really see the benefit of that outcome or going through that hellish experience to be worthy or valuable of any side. Once you get through those 24 hours you start to get into the experience and you start to feel the effects and you're like okay, let me just kind of settle into this this feeling, this experience and really test out what it's really trying to teach me about myself.

There always comes a moment because after you kind of get out of that first low, you start to slowly decay and it's from a physical side. It's a mental side. It's a spiritual side and there's always a point in the race where I need to cry.

Like crying is my release point of all the tension, all of the burdens that I'm holding

on to, all of the pressure that I'm putting on myself about this, what this race means, what it means about me, what it means for my family. And so 62 hours into this race, I called Cody and I called another friend and how it's just like, I just need to verbalize that this is so hard, this is so hard. And the problem with it being so hard is I know that I'm not going to stop.

And because of that, that means I have to keep walking into this pain and I have to keep going towards it. And that sucks, that sucks, that realization that you know it's going to be hard. You can't imagine it being more difficult than that.

“And yet you have to say, I'm going to stay right here.”

And when I can verbalize that with somebody that knows, loves and trusts me and they can sort of reinstate the belief of why I'm there and I can cry, it's almost like I'm rejuvenated in that moment because I've released myself of all this external pressure. And I've let myself in my body release itself of that tension and then I'm like, okay, let's go.

Yeah, after you cry, you feel great, which is crazy. And dude, I've thought about this for a while, crying is like, if you're like, crying because like you did something didn't happen, like that's maybe one thing. But crying, it's almost like it's sweat from the weight that we carry inside, dude. It's like sweat out of my eyes, it's like, if anything deserves to sweat, it's this discomfort,

it's this weight, it's this like whatever heaviness or whatever I'm holding onto, you know, whatever I can't understand or can't fathom or can't like matriculate enough to be okay with me. Like those are the things it's like, please, God, pull this sweat out of me, like let me release this and if it comes out of your eyes, that's fine, you know, like, yeah, dude,

but just to get that out, bro, I heard, I heard you say that at our 60 of an ultra, you'll find out who you are, not what you think, not what you believe, not what other people think you are, but you'll meet the person that you are out there on that course.

“And that's why you love him, dude, and a no joke, bro, that got me out of bed to go work.”

Now, bro, it was 430 in the morning, I probably should have stayed in bed, but it got me that hype, dude, just like here when you talk about this relationship, like with yourself and just confronting that part of us, that we don't want to just, and just confronting

about the experience and saying, yeah, I am who I say, I am, but what does it actually look

like practically out in real life? And to be truth be told, it's easy to do it in a backyard ultra for me, because I've had experience with that. And let's be honest, I get, I get a plot it for it. When I do it out on the course and I have success with it, people will applaud me for it. And so there's a certain level of selfishness in that to be frank, but the true essence of where I build that from and how I'm able to do that out on the courses, like I say this all

a time like, I don't get to determine if I'm a good friend, my friends get to determine that. I don't get to determine if I'm a good husband, my wife gets to determine that. And they base

“that off of the integrity and character that I have and where am I getting that from?”

I get that from scripture. I get that from Christ. And how do I live up to that?

That is by me continuously doing the little things in my day-to-day life. Even outside of like the training, the running, the stuff that gets me prepared for that. But honoring my commitments in all the little aspects of my life, because this conversation right here will show up in my next race, because the story that will then be crafted is like, you're on the Theo van podcast and you talked about how you are a man of your word. Are you going to do that right now when it's really

tough to do so? And that's scary because I can't run from that version of myself out there. I have to make a decision when it's most difficult, when it's most challenging, and I have to say, I am going to be that man or I'm not or I'm going to allow the excuses that are rational justifications to convince me that I can walk away before it's my time. Yeah, dude. Just hearing you have this relationship kind of with your own integrity. You know,

“I think it's such an important conversation that needs to kind of be happening in the world right”

now. And I shouldn't say that. It's an important conversation that I need that be happening with myself. You know, and I'm just so glad that you're here kind of sharing some of your thought processes and just us even thinking about that. Yeah, because I like to believe on one person, but live kind of like another person. Yeah. And that creates a conflict in me. Yes. And it creates an uncomfortability. Yes. And at times it creates, you know,

it's created an unreliableness even to myself. Amen. And dude, that a lot of times is like, when I'm at my, when I'm with myself, that is, it's not embarrassing, you know, but it's just like, I can do better. Yeah. You know, and I want to. So I'm glad that I notice it more,

“but it is an uncomfort because it's like, yeah, it's like, I'm this, but this is what I do.”

And if those things aren't in master with each other, then I'm going to be in a state of discomfort. Well, can I just say something on that? Like, that does it make sense when I'm saying does 100%. And I relate to that so completely because I'm sure at least what I'm pulling from that is there's a burden to that almost because there's a recognition of there are parts of our lives that we feel disconnected to our action and our word. They're creates this discomfort. And that can be burdensome.

That can be like, man, I'm, I'm not living up to who I want to be. And that can almost bring us down. Yes, but there's a, there's a flip side of that of there. A lot of people don't think like that. A lot of people aren't aware of that. And there is a, a true blessing. And one,

we're never going to be perfect, Theo. Yeah. I thought like that. So we got to remove that and

give ourselves grace and understand that through the awareness of that, we can either beat ourselves down or we can build ourselves up and say, I can do better. I will do better. And if I fail, I'm going to continue to try and work to be better and have people in our lives that are going to hold this accountable and build us up so that we can still that we can continue to live that way. But it's a blessing and a curse because when we are aware of that, we can, we can beat ourselves down.

The trap. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's like the discomfort kind of became just sometimes too much. But also, yeah, it's like, if I hold myself to too high of a standard, it's sometimes of a perfection, right? That's such a trap. We can't, we can't do it. It's impossible. And my, oh, dude, so much more life, I would hold myself to this level that was impossible to reach, right?

it would match with some old belief among that I was always that I was a failure anyway. And so it's

like, it's weird, like, in setting and aiming for perfection, I was always setting myself up for this old magnet that was just deep inside of me somewhere that was like, you're, you're not worth that or whatever, or, uh, yeah, you're a fail, you're, you're no good, you're ugly, you're, there's something wrong with you, right? And so it, and yeah, man, that's been a big trap in my life.

“And I have more awareness about it now. Yeah. I think the place that I'm in right now is a lot of the,”

uh, kind of given myself grace just for the times that I've held myself to, to, uh, to some level of impossibility, you know, unrealistic expectations. Yeah, do you ever feel like giving yourself that grace is giving yourself, like, cutting yourself slack that you don't deserve? Does that make sense? Yeah, don't we think about it for a second? Do I ever feel like giving myself grace? Like, there's this perfect standard that you're holding yourself to. And if you fail,

it's reinforcement that you're a failure, okay? And at least that's the story in your mind, and there could be another story of like, I'm going to give myself grace and the negative story of that is, oh, you're just giving yourself grace because you can't hold yourself to a higher stand. Oh, that makes sense? Yeah, it does. I don't, yeah, I don't do that. Okay, good. But I do, I do see what you're exactly what you're saying. Yes. Yeah, I don't do that. I think it's just like, um,

I just feel like I should always be able to figure it out. It's this eternal thing of like,

man, why can't you figure this out? You can, like, it's not even, I can't encourage anything. It's not like you can do this. It's just like, why can't you figure this out? You can figure it, you know, and so some of that is realizing that I can't. But then also there's a gift in it is that I don't have to do things alone anymore. And that, starting to realize that is going to change my life.

“Where do you learn that? I think just when I was a kid, it was just like, uh, yeah, there was just”

nobody to rely on. Yeah. You know, and so I just, you just start to rely on yourself, I think. Like I swear to do learn that you could rely, like other people, you could rely on other people. Well, it's a turning point for that. It's been coming new into my life, I think. I think some of it has come through like recovery. I've been, uh, just focusing back in on my recovery a lot more. Probably developing a better relationship with God in my heart, power, you know, and just realizing

that I'm not alone. Yeah. You know, and it's, uh, like we're supposed to be talking about racing. But this is okay. This is the biggest race in the world. You know, uh, yeah, I do. Yeah, so I think it's like that. And just like, yeah, leaning on other people with like what's really going on, you know, and not being afraid to tell God what's going on, like to the word, yeah, you know, not to be like, uh, even sometimes words and languages, I'm afraid to use that.

I wouldn't even want to use a round God or whatever. Yeah. But then it's like, you know, I was like, like, you got to put them in the fine print of a prayer, you know. So it's like, I think, yeah, it's like that. Yeah, it's like, I think, kind of being louder with the fine print of my prayers. If that makes any sense. It does. Yeah. So yeah, thanks for all me thinking about that. I didn't even know I needed to think about that today, man. It's got me sweating. That's good.

That's okay. Yeah. Yeah, man. One of the things I was so like that really like woke me up to you was just some of your, um, just the ways that you look at that stuff. Because it's so important, you know, and I think just having a bit, I think just having a bigger relationship with myself, like a real relationship, like, what am I really doing here? You know, like Houda, you know, I'm saying like, ask myself some of the tougher things. Um, and uh, and I want to get, I want to get into that.

And I know that you know about your journaling practice and that you have this, that you've kind of developed this relationship with yourself. And I think it's really cool. And I want to learn more

about that. Um, but I want to learn more about the race first. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah, that's so

really cool. Okay. Cool. Thanks for being here, dude. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Um, so, so you talked about like, if you finish a loop first, so the loop is, let's just, let's just say it's four miles to make it easy. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So the loops four miles. Yeah. And then at every hour on the hour,

“you have to go back out for the loop again. Yes. And the contenders that continue to show back up”

for that loop, they're still in the race. Yes. And it keeps going on until only one person can do the loop by themselves. Yes. Got it. And when you, is there, is there strategy in finishing that loop early? So you have time to, um, eat or, or, or hydrate or communicate with your, with your tent or, or do you want to finish like write up at the minute? So you're just go right into the next run. Like, take me into some of those type of strategies. Yeah. There's,

like to run the loops in 50 minutes. And pretty consistently, almost like a dog that's being trained.

“I will come in at 50 minutes. I'll lay down immediately. I'll sleep for five minutes. And when I say”

sleep, sometimes it is me just laying down and resting. Other times sleep deprivation will take its hold. And I will get like these fragmented images flickering like these photographs cycling through my mind. I can't even hold on to them. There's flipping so fast. And it'll happen for, you know, five, six minutes. And then at 57 minutes into the hour, there's a loud speaker that'll say three minutes runners, three minutes. And that is your wake-up call Theo. That is like,

I'm awake enough to hear that, but also asleep enough to like be getting rest. And so then I'll

wake up at that alarm. I'll sit up. I'll sit in my chair. My wife will feed me. They'll feed me.

Pancakes and syrup. Oh God. Staking eggs at three in the morning. It's so Roman. Oh, it's great.

“It's great. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and I'll eat for about two minutes, two and a half minutes.”

And then I'll walk to the start line. And you got to be in the corral when that bell rings. So if I'm in my tent and they ring that bell, I'm out. So you got to be in that corral. And do you have a coffee or something before you go out? Oh, coffee, red bull. Um, at Europe. Uh, so you just like a construction worker and pretty much use and see the stuff I'm eating and drinking out there. It is like, you know, a kid in a candy store. You're like, let's go. And when you put a piece of gum, you're about to

keep something like that to keep you like going like a, or people putting zins in, is that a thing that people are doing? People do zins and nicotine out there. I don't, uh, I do it in my daily life, not entirely proud of it, but I don't do it during the race because I'm like, this is a reward for after when it's all said and done. Um, and it can kind of mess with your ball system out there, you know, so there's the thing called the poop loop. So you have as much time in that hour to take

care of, you know, sleep, nutrition, go into the bathroom. Some people, they'll know they'll need a poop loop. So they'll run the loop in 45 minutes so they can take a poop and then they'll be ready to go for that next loop. Can you tell when someone's on their poop? Oh, yeah, yeah, people like to announce it, too. It's like, I'm going for a poop loop on this one. So little speed it up. Or there's sometimes there's a port of potty's right outside of the caral. So as the loop starts,

you're able to use the two port of potty's that are right there and those sprint right for it,

and just get it out of the way on the course. Yeah, they'll do it right there in the first like few steps

in the port of potty and then they'll run, you know, if you're going to run a poop loop, you

“want to get it done before you have to run fast. Yeah, that'd be tough to carry with you if you're”

trying to run pretty fast. But then there's other things like I'll get in and I'll do a 45-minute loop and I will get entirely undressed. I'll stand in a bucket of water and my wife will shower me like full service, servant wife of like being able to be there and help me through this entire experience and she's like, yep, we gotta get you show it up. We gotta get you know, aquifer and loop on your feet and in between your armpits and stuff. So someone's like a care taking ritual

almost in a way. Yeah. So there's an emotional value to that as well. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, like, if you feel cared for, then things are possible. 100%. And in those dark moments during the race, really it's not something that she says to me, but it's more of a look where I can say, Lucy, this is really hard. And sometimes she'll say, more often it's more of a look of like as long as you're in that darkness, I'm going to be right there with you and she'll just hug me.

And it's like that hug tells me everything's okay because I'm not experiencing this darkness alone. There's somebody who might not be out running the course with me, but she's back here as invested as concerned as, you know, experiencing the hard times as I am. And that allows me to keep going, because somebody is there with me. Yeah, you have the power almost of two people when you're doing it. Yes. There's love and commitment there. Yeah, it's beautiful dude. Yeah. And just the

the ability to just like, when someone is like saying something's hard, just not even to tell them something, just give them a hug. You know, my brother does that sometimes like a couple

donut shop and like, I was just like, it was just like one of those times I was like process

and old stuff. And I was just like balling in my truck. And my brother was like, uh, and I was just telling my brother like what was going on. And he's like, I can just sit here with you and not say anything. You know, he's like, I have like 20 extra minutes. I'll just sit here with you and not say anything. That's beautiful. But I just want you to know that I'm here, you know? And dude, I melted. I like melted things that were like hurting from like, I don't even know. Like my feet got smaller,

bro. I freaking, I was just loose. I mean, I was just, all these came up. You know what I'm saying? Much shoes didn't fit later. But it was just like, like, all just like all this old stuff came up.

Because it just that kind of moment it never happened. Not trying to, I'm not trying to take away from

“no your story. It's, it's, but that's what it's about. Like that's why I run”

because I think it's such a good depiction of how, like, I really feel this responsibility to share what I experience on that course and how I genuinely think I have the success I have is because we get those moments. And that's the recipe for success in life. Like how good did you feel after those 20 minutes? It was, it was honestly in a weird way. One of the neatest times of my life. And you feel connected to your brother. There's, there's, and no words

need to be said. And I was like, what else, what else are we chasing after? Like the wind is great. Don't get me wrong. I love it. And it's part of the reason I'm sitting here with you and all that's great. But like what I take away from that race and the races that I get to do is I get to create stronger relationships with the people that I love and do so in a way where we're all working towards this same mission together, not to win the race. But to come out the other side of

it transformed by this experience. Bro, as you're saying that like, um, we have this guy coming on name, uh, Bishop Robert Baron. Um, he's an active bishop. And he's also a historian, like a Catholic historian. And then we had this guru on the other day, guru dev. And both of them, I've heard say this thing that when people have like a friendship or relationship, that's fine. Like if they're friends, it's a friendship is good. Right? If there's a relationship or a husband and wife

that's good. But when they have a common interest, that moves them forward. Those are the things that keep people together and keep friendships and relationships together. So even as you're saying it's like you run, right? But it brings people into your world and gives them something also to care about it. It gives, um, it gives your friends something to be associated with and like, and then

“now they're a partner in it and somehow it's like, so it's like, I think when people, it's like”

taking action in some way. I think helps, um, sometimes we don't realize like the actions that some of us take or or things that can keep us together with someone else. And then once somebody else is on board, now you're taking that action together. Right? And you have like a journey in the world. Yeah. And sometimes that journey just gets you through a few years. Sometimes it gets you to a lifetime, you know? And there's no, there's no action too small for that to happen. Like someone doesn't have

to go run 400 miles in order to experience that. They can just sit in that car, asking a brother for

help. And that is that is the most important thing I get from running 400 miles. And we get to do that

in our everyday life if we take action, like you said. Yeah, man. So much of it's action. I quit letting my thoughts like I start to notice my thoughts more of it meditating a lot and I'm just having finally I get to see what's going on dude. I had no idea. I was a damn video game and now every now and then I have the control in my hands. And I'm like, oh, interesting. We're even just a second. I start to notice some thoughts. I'm like, those are trash, bro. These are recyclable.

That's a thought that they played yesterday. It's like, but I just, I don't know. I'm not saying I know anything. I'm just saying like, that's just been like an experience I've been having. And it's been, it's felt kind of rewarding. Yeah, it just felt like, uh, I don't know. It's only, it's starting to make me a little bit want to know myself even more. And that's that's cool. But it's also a little spooky. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. If you could wake up tomorrow

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Um, to get back to racing. How do you plan the calories and hydration you're going to intake before you go out there? And when you're out there. Yes, it no. I, so we go into a race having a plan that we hold loosely onto. So so much can happen in four days of running. The weather can change. The, you know, my appetite can change drastically. And so if I had a certain, like, I'm going to eat this, this loop. And I'm going to have this amount of calorie intake. And I'm going to have this amount

of sodium to me that would stress me out. Because if it didn't go according to that exact plan,

then I would think something's wrong. I'm going to fail. And it's like, we are so adaptable

“because we are made that way by a creator that we don't need to have everything planned out to”

we're not, we're not built to know all the answers. And so I approach a race very similarly to that where it's like, I have an idea. And obviously we bring the kitchen as Lucy and I say, we, we literally bring the kitchen like rice and beans and potatoes and steak. And you can mix and match all of those to make a different meal. And my wife has gotten really good at just predicting what based on my mood, what I'm in the appetite for, because it's almost like you come on for dinner,

like a hundred times. So what do you even feed so in that? Who is this guy? So get a new job putting us out. So that, you know, there's not a, a detailed plan, but anything that I, I guess the thing that I do most is like every loop, I'm eating something. So even if it's a handful chips, okay, or, you know, the best is obviously the steak and the, you know, what's it called, orange slices and eggs and stuff like that. But that's not too heavy on your system and the race.

Not really. So I train it by all, I'll run four or five miles to a diner and I'll shove my face full of food and then I'll run home. You know, like, this is race prep. But you get you stood out there, you know, and that's kind of the way it is. Yeah. Oh, you, you were talking about, like, if, if things are too planned out that it creates, like, once there's a plan and then if things deviate a little bit, it can create, like, a lot of uncertainty, it's almost like when you're

learning about a bike in the wheel, start wobbling. It's like, it's like, oh, we're trying to, like, be too specific. And especially in a race when things can be different, right? Things obstacles can come up like you're saying. But I saw that you didn't even, you barely even made it to the race on time.

“Yeah. Your flight was delayed. Yeah. So that honestly, that, and I'll talk about it. Like,”

that is what gave me the confidence and further reinforce this belief that the less, know what you can control and understand. It's not a whole lot, right? You can control your energy and your attitude and the search situation. And you can be prepared to handle what's coming up.

But ultimately, we have far less controlled than we think we have. And so the race started on

August 14th at 2 p.m. German time. Wow. I had up. And the Germans are there. They're there. Fucking dial. Yeah. Yeah. They don't even do a leap here. I made that out. But it would seem like that. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. So I had a presentation for a company that I had committed to back in March. Okay. And it was in Alexandria, Minnesota, which is two hours north of where the airport is. So that was

at 830 in the morning. Our presentation gets to the airport for a 115 flight. And there's a layover in Chicago and brother. I am on the tarmac sitting in the plane for an hour and a half. And I'm watching my flight to Frankfurt fly away. I'm like, I need to be on that flight because it's a four hour drive from Frankfurt, which you just missed it. I just missed it because the layover flights you flew in one flew into Chicago sitting on the tarmac watching your flight to Frankfurt.

to the race in time. So I'm on the phone with Lucy and my friend Kellen and the race director Kim. And we're like, okay, how do we make this work? And the plan shifted from Frankfurt to flying me into

Amsterdam, which is closer to first an hour the race was. And then Kim was like, all right,

“the only way that we're going to get you to this race on time is if we schedule a private jet from”

Amsterdam to Mooster, Mooster, and then it's an hour drive to the race. So I get on the flight, flying to Amsterdam. I'm racing through security and border patrol. And then I get to the tarmac for the private jet. And I'm explaining to the pilots who are like, who are our age and they're just like so excited. Telling them about what I'm doing there and the situation like, do we got to go? So we're up in the air and we're down. I'm like, man, that was, that was really fast.

And we're getting off the flight and the the pilot looks at me with a little smile on his face.

And he's like, don't tell anybody I said this. But that 45 minute trip that it usually takes

to get here. We got here in 20 minutes. What? And he's like, you got a promise to be one thing. You won't quit on that course. Really? And what's crazy? So Kim's dad picked me up. We drove an hour to the race. And I was there 15 minutes before the race started. Was everybody already there? Everybody was there in the starting crowd. They'd already done pre-race announcements. And there's a photo of a bunch of us. Everyone's in their race gear. They got their water bottles

and everything. And I'm standing in jeans with a suitcase. So I quickly got changed. I did a quick shower. Got my race stuff on. And by the time I got into the crowd, there was two minutes to go to the race.

Did it almost add like a new freedom in a way like what did. Yeah. And you, but the fact

that you're able to process that as that. That's the important thing. Like if, if when a moment gets tough, if we can like manipulate it enough to have our perspective be, uh, have hope and possibility in it because, yeah, because a lot of times it can go the other way. You easily could have got on that other ship where it's like, this is, I'm not going to be embarking orders. You're being

“like this in there. And now it's a nightmare. Yeah. What do I have control of? That's what I kept”

trying to remind myself of this situation that was happening. Of like, I don't control the flights. Yeah. That's so hilarious. All those guys are so happy. There's like a dog. They're like, discounted be here for one day. So I had put it in the back of my mind that all of those, a lot of those guys are friends. So more of like the people I didn't know is like, everybody's going to discount me. Everybody's going to say that I'm, I'm not going to make it that far

because look at all this. I mean, even though I was doing a decent job of controlling my emotions, and it's still like an emotional roller coaster, you know? And getting to that race, it was like, this is a perfect example of how this weekend is going to go because if I can go through this experience with a smile and see it as every obstacle is just an opportunity to try something new and experience this adventure in a different way that is not the way I envisioned it. It's not the

way everybody else envisioned it, but who's to say this is a worse way to experience it. Yeah, that's the trap I've gotten in a lot. It's getting a little better, but that's the trap sometimes. It's like, this isn't how it's supposed to be. Yeah. And you can, you can almost feel your body get like tight over it. That feeling just sucks man. Yeah. Well, you get out of after a while, you just get tired of you like this has to be a better way. Yeah. And there is. You know,

“that's a crazy thing. There is a better way. But I think it takes practice and noticing when you”

get to those moments and then being able to start to, you know, kind of slowly adjust. Again, I'm not preaching. That's just kind of like, yeah, you just can't hold on so tight. You know? Because you get exhausted. You hold on anything so tight. You get exhausted. Yeah. You know? What is happening to your body during a race, right? So like, are there parts where your spot like, are your muscles just like vibrating like do your feet get swollen? Does your, like,

what kind of happens as you go through? Because four days of racing is, that's a lot of racing. Like that's a most racing. Like that's kind of the most racing. It is the most racing. So, thinking about it, I kind of think about it. I'm not a big car guy, but like, if you take a mini van across the country, you're going to go at a different pace than if you

cool down because you're, you're revving it so hot. And so I'm taking the mini van across across

“the country and these races. And what I mean by that is I'm, it's like a 50/50 jog walk. Like I'm”

walking a lot of this race because I'm trying to play the long game of how can I slowly deteriorate my body over a long period of time instead of coming out hot and, and having that engine burn super quick. Right. Because you just have to finish the miles within the hour. Yeah. Okay. So you could do it as fast as you want or you could do 58 minute loops and just essentially walk as much as you possibly can. And there are times where I'll do that. But the body, it's not so much of like a

muscles will cramp or it's more of like fatigue. And, you know, the feet start to hurt and they

start to swell. I mean, I still got blisters all over my feet from the race because of just the

constant friction. So it's not like a muscle soreness. It's more of like a body fatigue and everything's wearing down. And the thing about this race is it was on an old military base. So 65% of the course was this concrete. And so you're like your soul freeze. We're just like, sore and achy and and really feeling it. A lot of people had hit problems and, man, I saw a KT tape, which is like this tape that's supposed to like help keep things in place. One dude had it.

All the way up is nagging down his back. No, it's like my brother. Pay it down to call it. He's getting airlifted out of his chair. Like they brought in a helicopter just a little bit. Oh, that's crazy. Dude, I would have that stuff. You would just see my eyes do. My whole body would be that tape dude. I would have my whole body taped. Be a mummy out there. I would be just a hopeful mummy. That's the only thing I would be. So it's not like your muscles start palpitating like or do they like,

it's not like that. No, because do you get scared? Do I have your heart beat or something? Is there any like things that start to happen that you get scared of that your body like can my body like my

“actual body? I haven't so far reached that point and I think it's really important for me the”

runner to know that limit because I never want to put that responsibility on somebody else. Oh,

so then your wife responsible your friend like suddenly they have to make a decision because you were too far. Yes, like my responsibility is to know my limit and sometimes that might be at least in the past when I was just starting out with this. I thought my limit was one thing and then I'd wake up the next day and I'd be like, man, I'm really disappointed that I thought that was my limit. And so to trial and error of trying to figure out what that limit is. But it's not like

I would never want to put that responsibility on my wife to keep encouraging me to go out and then I end up in the hospital. Right. So I haven't found that limit. I don't know what it is, but I have a hope and a faith that like I'll know that when it comes up. I'll you know a great example is Harvey Lewis. He's another runner. He's another runner. 50 years old. He's a legend in the sport. He's a guy I highly respect. I love this man. He's set the world record in this in this format and one of the

things that he said after the race because he bowed out at around 40 or 50 loops and he had just

“got done running the bad water 135, which is another extreme race. But he said that the only thing”

that was would keep him in the race was his ego. And I thought that was of this race. I mean this race. He he when he tapped out he's his body was just banged up from a race he did two weeks before and he had made the statement that the only thing that was keep it would have kept him in the race. What have been his ego? It's a fascinating. And to hear someone like that who I look up to, who's a legend, who can make that decision. And he's vegan. He's doing all of that stuff. He's doing

all of that skills and Coca-Cola baby. Dude, I eat a bunch of mushrooms. I can't even make it. Dude, I can't even make it out of my cousin's basement. So after he bowed out, he gave me a bunch of his juice. And I was like, man, maybe this is what's cute. He's got carrot juice and beet juice. I was like, this still is good. But just watching him make that decision. Give me confidence of like, I don't need my ego to keep me in a race. Got it. So even if the greats are making a decision like that

and their thought process can kind of like have a scale that understands that. Then as a runner who really cares about this, hopefully I'll have the same scale you're saying. Yeah. And exactly. And I think

the race, then it's worth dying to win this race. But if I'm not here to win the race, if being here

is something deeper and more meaningful, then the outcome of this race doesn't determine my experience here. In fact, I respect Harvey Lewis so much more because he made that decision because he didn't put something the external or materialistic above what's truly important to him. And I respect him even

“more for that. Yeah. Like, I think a lot of like in my life I've had things where it's like,”

and I'm not trying to sound like a down or someone's like talk about stuff and I think it seems like such a downer. Like my life, I'm not getting that impression. You're not? No. Okay. Now, just try to share about like things that I think about our feel. And sometimes those things are like, you know, you're navigating kind of the other side of like pretending everything's awesome. Yeah. But it's like, sometimes it's like, I thought, yeah, just that the success like that will be enough,

you know, that and with that is the focus or like, you do start to lose track of the relationship that you're having with the experience, you know. But I haven't done a bad job with that, but I have thought that at times like, well, if I can just prove, it's like proving myself,

here's what it is. It's like proving myself, but to who. Hmm. Like who was I proved? Like,

because I don't always know if it was to me. Yeah. Sometimes I don't know who it was to. Yeah. But it was just like, and sometimes it could just be this societal arrow that you get put on as a child and shot through towards this, prove yourself. Yeah. You know, um, but that's something

“that, um, that I've reflect on sometimes. And then, and then I think even just like now,”

I'm just starting to see a little bit more like, you know, who do I want to prove things to as my life goes on? You know, um, yeah, it's just an interesting conversation. And some of it is just like, you know, what are these conversations we have with ourselves? Because they're, they're the most important conversation, you know, and so often I don't really have them or I don't, I don't even, I have them, but I don't even notice what they are to at times. Um, you know, it's, you have a

beautiful way of creating imagery that I so much appreciate. Uh, the arrow analogy of I think often times we think that, so like that you, you've been shot out into the trajectory. It's like, I wasn't even the one pulling the string. Yeah. And we forget that when we take control of the bow, that's not the only arrow we have in the, in the back. Mm. We get to pull out another one and let go of that identity or that journey or that path that we didn't even, someone else created that path

for us. You know, and so it's like, I've tried and dude, I'm not perfect at this. I fail at this and, and I have the thing I'm appreciative is I have people that help ground me in this of like the

success is great, but ultimately, like, there's only one audience that matters and that's God.

Yeah. And we aren't going to live up to that perfect standard, but we can do our best, but know that like, no matter how much success I have in running, it's not going to make me more valuable as a person. Mm. No matter how much I try and do good, I'm not going to be perfect. And there's no way. And the thing is, we don't have to be. We're not called to be perfect. We're called to recognize our own imperfection and strive to be a little bit better. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

“I think it's just, it's about this. Yeah. What is this relationship that I have with myself?”

And also, I have a relationship with the higher power. I think helps you start to have a relationship with yourself. Um, I think anyway, I'm just kind of navigating some of that space, you know, trying to navigate it at a deeper level, you know. Um, there was a loop out there. You get, you've been kind of criticized on that. I don't know if it's criticized, but you've been, uh, let's say, and that's not fair to say. Oh, that's fair. Maybe it is. You've been documented online as having sort of this

wild loop. I think it was loop 87, where it was down to you in, uh, hello? Yes. Um, another competitor in he's German. Yes, he is. Um, and you guys were the last two left in this race. And there's a part where it's like, the camera that they have to show this. It kind of makes you wonder if it's even real or if like, is real set this up? You don't know. He's exactly what's going on. But there's this infrared camera of you two guys on a trail. I want to show it right here. It's short.

I'm still anything we can tell you right now. Stay very still, but very static. Oh, I'm there. Oh, no. It's one of you guys stopping when the other one stops. Yeah. The lady goes,

watching one of those animal planet videos. And the cheetah comes in and gets the other animal

“that can't get out of the river. And it's like, she's, oh, no. She said it just like that. So I think”

that that kind of got cycled into people's energy with it. But some people would say, it looks like you could be stalking or like you're kind of like monitoring your prey or you're like, you're a pan of miming, right? And um, and the, what was going on there? Like what's going on out on the course? And what do and what psychology are people using out on the course out there if there's any, um, when it comes down to just a couple competitors? Yeah, I think in the backyard,

it is not simply a physical adventure or competition. It's physical, it's mental, it's emotional, it's spiritual. And the people that do the best in the sport are able to handle all four of those things. And when it gets down to, you know, all throughout the day, everybody is playing a mine game, whether they know it or not. They're trying to look stronger than they are, you know, they're coming out and they're doing faster loops when maybe, you know, it's just a way to

posture how strong they're doing. Hyden lamps, Hyden lamps, seemingly vaping, funny enough, I did a race in June and a guy was vaping. I was like, brother, how are you doing this? It's like,

“I'll tell you how I'm new on this. Yeah, on cherry lime ice, dude, that's how I'm doing it. And we'd”

like to sponsor that guy. Yeah, see, a fake mod, too. It was like not like a jewel or something. It was like puffing clouds. Oh, like one of those like the front of a train, like one of those big dogs, jeepers. It was crazy. That's the push and cold through as long as bro. I don't want to mess with that guy. That's one of those West Virginia backyard runners road. They look at that dude or woman.

But so loop loop 87. It was an opportunity to be competitive in a way that the sport is always

had, but maybe hasn't been televised in that way before. And I think the thing I go back to is like, you don't tell Dennis Rodman how to play basketball. Yeah, you prepared to play Dennis Rodman. And I from all of the sports that I've ever played, I've always been a guy who likes to use my energy as a way to celebrate the activity that I'm doing. And use competitive advantages here and there to gain an advantage. And that's really all it was. It was, you know, I saw him sprint out of the

gate sort of trying to show me how strong he was. And I said, I'm right here with you. And were you guys talking, does he speak English? He speaks a little bit of English. Okay. But there was obviously, even if there's not verbal communication, there's like a communication of ambiance or peacocking in a way. There's like that kind of energy, right? Yeah, there was, I mean, he was, I spoke no words to him out there on that loop. In fact, I think him and I had one

conversation all day. And that was when there were four or five people left. And I was like, hey, this is awesome that we're still here. We just made it three days of running. But out on that loop, yeah, there were no words exchanged from me on my end. He did sort of say, like, what the heck are you doing? And his, I think, way of trying to show his strength was speeding up. Like, he's a really fast runner. And I think he tried to break me off in that moment.

And that was his form of communication to me that, okay, if we're playing this game, you're going to have to keep up with me. And I played that game back with him. And so your energy was just what, like, I'm right here. So yeah, I'm right here. I, I can run fast loops too. Hmm. Do you ever mind, you like, I'm friends with this UFC fighter

Dustin Porea. He's, um, and one thing that I always didn't, like, one thing I like that he does is

when he's, even if he's over on his side during the, like, uh, on the breaks in between the rounds, even if he rest with his hands on his knees, he always is looking over at his opponent. And I think about that every time, like, I'm in the gym, whatever I'm doing, like, if I start to break down, like, rest a little bit, like, just to pick my own stature back up, just to remind myself, just a physical reminder of, like, I'm going to keep going, right? Um, he always does that.

“Yeah, I think this, that seems normal to me that people do that kind of stuff, you know?”

I mean, if you've seen it a lot out there with other racers, like, when you guys get down and just two guys, yeah, there's, there's all, like, Harvey and I, we've raised against each other

mile. It's a one mile loop every 20 minutes until one person's left. Let me say again,

until one mile loop every 20 minutes, every 20 minutes until one person's left. Yeah, so it's still

“that format, but like, not four miles every hour, one mile every 20 minutes. You must get a ton of”

engines in that into that one. We'll kicker with this one is it's in Franklin and there's 300 40 feet of elevation per loop. So you're climbing this massive hill and then you're descending down and then you're climbing another massive hill and you're descending down. So it's super challenging and that's the one where I saw the dude puffing clouds. That's what was blowing my mind because it wasn't like a flat course, whereas a friendly jog is like, you're huffing and puffing up this hill,

I'm like, how are you doing this? Dude, it's just somebody from good, let's build it. That's all it is about it's chill. But Harvey would do things where he would sprint out, okay? He would sprint

“out of the gate and that was his way of saying, I could be here all day. Got it. You know? And so there's”

all this little stuff that's going on, crews are trying to gather information from people, you know, all this little stuff, every movement and posture that you have out there is you knowingly or unknowingly sending a signal to yourself and to other people, how you're doing? Well, that's the

world, too. And especially if you are like, I'll notice if I do fasting dude on the third day dude,

I can tell you if you're gonna have grandchildren, right? You just know what's going like every little thing means something like, like communication is so much easier because it's, uh, it doesn't feel sedated by kind of food and stuff like that. Does it feel like a level like that when you get to like when you're running it like after you've been running for so long, does everything feel like very acute and real or does it feel just bizarre? Exactly how you feel on day three is how it

feels on day three and four for me out on the course. I don't understand the last two loops of the course and after the race, the communication that I was having with my team and then, you know, I was talking to everybody about my race afterwards and gave this speech. None of that was me. I have no idea where it came from. I say it was the Holy Spirit because I could not think straight out there but this was, there was this general piece that I had not experienced really in any place in

my life and all I could, I wasn't like I was thinking I was just experiencing and living in that moment without any expectation or pressure or desire to leave that spot. I just wanted to be right there. It was like I could feel the experience and feel the importance of it but also step outside. I've heard comedians talk about this. I'm maybe you've experienced this. I'm sure you have it where you're on stage and you're almost seeing yourself have the experience and it's not

affecting you from a negative. It's not getting into your subconscious. You're experiencing it and you're aware of the experience and how beautiful it is that you're still in. And you're still way in it. It's like that's pretty cool. It's awesome. That's it too for you. Yeah, dude. Is pornography causing a problem in your life? Do you find yourself watching porno for longer periods

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Recovery, please visit them at www.valorrecoverycoaching.com or email them at [email protected]. Thank you. We hear a lot about hallucinations while running, actually. Have you experienced some of that? I have, yes. Yeah. Anything good? I sell teddy bears hanging from a tree one time. I saw some Native Americans. I saw there's a race where there was a road loop and there was an entire middle school of kids

sitting cross-legged, cheering me on, putting their hand out for a high five. No, it was wild. There was, are you a Harry Potter guy? Enough. So you know those big spiders? Yes. There was one race where it was through a ton of trees and all of the trees started to turn into these massive spiders. It was nuts. It was, you know, that exactly. Oh yeah, that's the snoop dogs right there. And then that's that Tim Burton. That's beautiful. Wow. But then there was like,

out on in Germany, it wasn't like a physical depiction of anything like that. It just felt like I'd been, which is weird to say, because I was on that course for days on end, but it like felt like I'd been on that course before, like this nostalgia feeling was not like something in passing. It was like this constant state of nostalgia of like I've been here before. I've seen this

“course before and I couldn't explain it. Dude, I think everybody else could explain it.”

You just, you just run around it 300 times. Yeah. So yeah, it's understandable. But yeah, I mean, that's yeah. Can you bring up different hallucinative experiences that happened when people was jogging? Of the strange and intriguing world of running hallucinations. I just want to get a few of these out. Emily Foley, ultra-trail do mom blonde. It says, I was filling in my water bottle from a sheep's trough red flag. I think that costs so much. That's a good call, dude.

First of all, if I'm drinking water with sheep, I'm already not doing good. I was filling

in my water bottle from a sheep's trough on the mountain at mile 70. I recalled when I saw a tiny severed heads at the bottom. I looked around at my fellow runners expecting a similar reaction in panic, but they were all utterly calm, filling bottles and chatting. Oh, that would have pissed me off the most. I'm staring at baby heads and a trough and you're over there. Just, just talking about how the Vikings are doing. Get out of town. Try as I might. I couldn't make

the heads turn into stones, which my rational mind knew they must be. I couldn't stomach drinking, turned around, apologized to a golden retriever, aka a pile of dried grass, and I tripped over and continued up the mountain. It was broad daylight. That's that free shit. I'm trying to get on. This is another one, Jin Scottney, North Traverse Race. I was 120 miles into 190 mile race and

hadn't slept. Going into the second night, I started hallucinating really badly when it got dark.

My head torch was bouncing light onto the limestone walls where cats and human faces were appearing. Then I was so clear the stars were twinkling all around, but I was a hallucinating that they were around my shoulders. On my own at 2 a.m. everyone else tucked up in bed and here I was in the Yorkshire Dales shouting at the stars to get back into the sky. That's mad. Let me see one more here. This is John Hunt. I was going into the second night, so it was pretty wasted by

then. I was on a country road on this is in Tames. I was on a country road with trees either side.

“I was about 150 miles in and remember thinking the trees look really strange with weird bits”

hanging down. So I stopped and had a closer look. To my amazement, it looked like someone else had strong up thousands of rotisserie chickens. As far as the eye could see. I was so confused by that it took a closer look and went to grab one. I laughed. It was just a leaf. Dude, one time,

park and some dude. He was like, I guess like a wiener guy or whatever. He was standing in the park

and like he had no clothes on. He was like this tall white guy. He was like, and he was like, kind of spinning his wiener at a dude. Dude, this is worse for her freaking bike broke down right there. And I was like, and I thought she was kind of doing it on purpose just to like be around this guy like not around this guy's wiener, but like to see it more whatever. And then the bike was like really broke dude and I was like trying to like, so then we had to like walk this bike, but the back

tire wouldn't move. So it like drag walked this bike past some dude like a legitimately spinning his wiener. Like at a decent gate. Like creating vortex around that thing. Like I would say this, a butterfly couldn't land on it. Right. A hummingbird couldn't even land on a cully.

“So that's some, but anyway, I don't know why I told you that. So that's why I don't run.”

But anyway, that's what I got to get that out there. Are there people that who, who does this sport mark? Like, is it business guys that just are looking or become like, and making a ton of money and they're looking for something new to do, right? Is it like, is it a certain body type? Like, who were the, are there like stereo types? You know, and not to say there's anything wrong with that. We're all somewhat of a stereo type. Are there stereo types that are out there? Kind of DC?

Yes, and no. There's a few different stereotypes. I guess like the business person who's that go

getter, that they have to do everything a million miles an hour. That's, that's also, that's a

person that's out there. It's like, I'm going to, I'm going to cheever. I'm going to go achieve this other thing in this world called the running and alter running. There's also people that, you know, they struggle, it's a big place of recovery. People that have struggled with addiction alcohol and they have that addictive personality and running has been the cure for them to not have that outlet. You know, running does a great job of spiritually lifting you from maybe the burdens of

“every day life. And so I think a lot of people find refuge in that. And, you know, and there's”

people, people like me who who really have this desire to see what they're capable of. And I think, you know, Ryan, the driver, he has a really great question yesterday and it was on this same line of thinking of, do you think anybody is capable of what you did out there? I think the short answer is, it's, it depends because there's a guy, Mike Egan, who is in a wheelchair. He's lost both of his legs because he was in service for the United States. And he did the BPN go one more, which I was

doing in April, and he did this last soul race in Germany. And he's in a wheelchair the whole time. And that I might, if you would have told me before I ever met Mike, what do I think he's capable of be based on my own imperfections out of said, I don't, how can he go more than a few loops? And then I witnessed him persevere and overcome every obstacle on that course, until Rain totally destroyed it in the one in April. And he was dragging his wheelchair just the heart of a lion. And he

“comes out in, in this race, he sets a PR. I think you went 31 or 32 hours at this course. No way.”

And let's go, Mike. And so I see a man who does not allow his circumstance or the things that have happened to him limit his belief about who he can become. Amen. And so I think anybody who has that belief about who they are, like I look up to Mike so much because he has shown me what is possible when you face extreme obstacle. And so I think anybody who has that belief about themselves, then they can as Mike said, find peace in the storm because they're willing to put themselves out

there no matter what. And so I think anybody who has that ability to look at life as this is not

happening to me. This is happening for me. I'm going to figure it out. And Mike always says forward,

onward, onward we go through the obstacle. And that's who I think is like that's who it attracts at the end of the day is people who want to find out who they are. Amen dude. Wow, that's fascinating. And so even like if the course is uneven is up, he still manages it. Yeah, he finds a way. God. And what's funny about this, too, is Harvey. Gosh, Harvey's a great guy. I could talk

And there were rocks all over it. And Mike was having a hard time going from the concrete to

the rocky trail. So over the course of 40 hours, Harvey got a group of us together and would take one rock off the course every loop. So Harvey picked up like 250 rocks over the course of his just trying to make it more fair. Make it easier for Mike. Right. And want to make it more fair, really. Yeah. Because it's kind of like dude. Yeah, have him like give him at least every now and even give him a little side alley. You want to say the guy's earned it. Give me a jumpy line. Gosh,

I can't imagine how difficult that is. Wow, that's fascinating, man. But like that guy is the man.

“Right. Thank you for sharing about him. Yeah. Can you pull that article up again, Trevor, please?”

A Texas base veteran now holds a Guinness World record for most miles covered in a wheelchair in

24 hours on November 10th, 2025, Mike Egan, a bilateral amputee and wheelchair user. I'm what does bilateral mean? It means I don't know. I don't know. Both legs. Yeah, I said don't know. But covered 152.37 miles over 21 hours. Wow. Completing 720 rotations around the course at Morgan's Wonderland Sports Complex in San Antonio with his family there to support. Let's go. Oh, and his two children, too. That's awesome. Yeah.

He's a former Marine, man. Thank you for your service, dude. Wow. Mike Egan. Oh, look at him there with that staff. Bro. Mike, you got that word current on him. Let's do it, dude. Bro, thank you. Bro,

thank you for sharing about him. Yeah. I want to get into like what are some of the different

types of courses that they have in backyard running? Like what are some of the tougher ones

“or more unique ones? Just so that listeners can understand like what backyard altres are like?”

Yeah. Yeah. The backyard altres space is still growing. One of the more tougher courses is the original one that happens in Bell buckle, right? It's Bell buckle. Bell buckle here in Tennessee. Yeah, yeah. So it's called Bigs Backyard. The originator lies put it on. I think in his backyard, and it takes place every year, it's I think 400 feet of elevation per loop. And so there's courses that, you know, I know of one that I do in Warsaw, Wisconsin that's 500 or 610 feet of

elevation per loop. So elevation adds a ton of, oh, it makes it so so much more challenging. So much more challenging. So you could have like a flat course like BPN or this course in Germany where it's going to be demanding for for different things like a flat course. You're not changing your running motion very much. So it's just staying in one place for a long period of time and that causes friction there. But then there's higher elevation courses where the race might not go as long.

But you're climbing you know, essentially Mount Everest in 24 hours and your quads are banged up, your hamstrings are banged up, your muscles are a lot more banged up. And the more the sport grows, the more we're going to see challenges like, hey man, come to Minnesota in January. Let's see what a course looks like going across a frozen lake. You know, or go to Arizona in

“June, or July, which might be a little bit dangerous. But you'll, I think what we'll start to see”

more of is like what you see in motocross or some of these other sports where the temperature and environment in will dictate the course environment, which will determine what strengths and weaknesses and athlete truly has. Well, so it's going to start to see more strengths and weaknesses, a disparity of strengths and weaknesses because more variables will be introduced. Yeah. Ooh, that's going to be interesting. So we're still on the, we're still on the, the cusp of what that could be.

But a lot of the courses generally are probably within 100 to 300 feet of elevation per loop. Got it. And what are some of the severe temperatures that you've already been in? Have you been in any snow winds or whatever? Not in the backyard. I did a race in January called the arrowhead 135. And that's a historic Minnesota race takes place in the International Falls, Minnesota, which is right on the border of Canada. Is that my lake I task at all? It's near there, near there.

But because the misses that we river starts right up there, you can jump right across it. Yeah, you could do some lady took me there one time. She was awesome. She, I don't know if she listened sometimes. And I won't say her name, but she took me there one time and let me jump over the river, which is pretty cool. Yeah, because I've eaten things out of that river out of the

look. I put my tongue down stream a few times, brother, doesn't it? Well, you know, so one day at a time. Oh, that's just you right there. Yeah. Doing ice bearding. So it's a race. You run 135 miles. You got a carry a bunch of supplies on you. Okay. On a sled. And the temperature this year was minus 30 degrees at the start line Fahrenheit. And how many miles is that? That's 135. So that took 30. Oh, said that has a finish line or the you that has a finish line. So I haven't done any extreme weather

in the backyard. Got it. But I have experience doing extreme weather at least in this capacity. So wait, that was negative 30 degrees. That what that what you just saw was from last year's race, which was 15 to 20 degrees. This year's race was minus 30 degrees. So I've done it twice. And how much does that affect things that that weather difference? You even notice it after the beginning or what is that like? Um, or is it more just a visual effect? Well, the the warmer race,

“I think is more difficult because the snow becomes like sand. So it's hard to your feet kind of move”

around. And it's nice because you're not as concerned about frostbite, but when it's super cold, it's like concrete running on. And like the softer concrete, but it feels much better to run on. But man, my hands were getting cold. I was shoving in my pants all race long. Just trying to keep a Mormon. It really becomes a how can I moderate the temperature of my body so that I'm not dying out here type of thing. And does it ever get so you ever run so much it just feels like homework

erotic or anything out there like does things start to happen where you're like, I just ran like out of my own sexuality or something like you don't say how weird is things get like that like

mentally. Yeah, it does never turn sexual in my mind, but that's something I can think about on

my next one and get back to you on. I mean, if you're really interested about it. Okay,

“to me, I'm just wondering like, if you're out there, I don't see you guys shaking their weiner”

like you do when you run it. For oh, it was one guy and my girlfriend even set it up or whatever. Anyway, I don't even know what we're talking about. Yeah, I just didn't know because some of that certain altitude does something people are more likely to be gay. Different things can happen. I did it no if people can run so much that you could like more for whatever. Oh, I want to get a little bit of your backstory. So you were all state high school athlete

and you played college football. Yep. When did running start for you? Yeah. Yeah, so I played collegiate football and lacrosse and running started for me the spring of my senior year. When it was club lacrosse, we actually played a Nashville. We played three games. Let's go. And we lost two out of the three games. One of them was to good old Kennesaw state.

“No, oh, yeah, from Georgia. Yeah, if that's where Kennesaw states from. I don't know where it's from,”

but hey, we'll go with it. Kennesaw state Georgia. And we never lost the Kennesaw state in our

programs history. So it was a tough one. And it was the first game of the weekend. But we're, you know, busting back. It's a 24 hour bus ride back. And I'm sitting in the back of the bus like we suck. I suck. We're not going anywhere throw in a pity party. And my brother sent me the Joe Rogan David Goggins podcast. And I'm just listening to this man. Deficate down the back of his leg, piss and blood. And he's getting up and he's running another 30 miles to complete a 100 mile

run around a track. And it was the first time it had planted a seed in my mind about some person who was not allowing their situation to have them throw a pity party. Like we lost the

first two games of the year. We still had a whole season ahead of us. And I'm listening to this

man break himself and not make an excuse about it. And so the first thing I did when we got back at three in the morning was I went out for a run. And that sort of just continued over the spring and when I was no longer an athlete when I graduated school, you know, truthfully playing football in the cross was a greatest escape for me to take out the anger that I had. You know, I struggled a little bit with alcohol and college of just using it as a coping mechanism for not being able to

sift through my emotional state. Yeah. And it would be this the cycle that I was living in was get drunk on the Saturday night, wake up with regret and shame, walk around with that regret and shame, not want to deal with that bottle it up, come to Saturday, game day and flick that pain on somebody else so that I didn't have to feel it anymore. And then celebrate that by more drinking.

alcohol and the decisions I was making came to a point. I was like, I either need to make a change

“or I need to like, it was just a point where I was like, dude, I need to figure out my life.”

And then after school and I had no other thing to keep me occupied outside of work and life, running was a thing that was there for me. And I just noticed early on that the more I would run, the more I would come back from a run and I would feel that heaviness in my chest feel almost like gone. Like the weight was off my shoulders. I wasn't carrying around that anger. And so early on for me running was this tool for me to kind of work through a lot of the emotional stuff that I was going

through because it was this, this practical imagery that was going on is like the more I ran and the more I moved forward while I was thinking about the issues and the problems in my life. It was like I was moving forward mentally through them and also physically through them because I was thinking about them as I was moving on my run. And so it it allowed me to kind of work through things and leave behind stuff that I wasn't as proud of and move forward through things that I wanted

to become ideas and conversations and just the life I wanted to live coming out of college. Yeah, when you get to the end of a run, the thoughts and feeling that you have are good. So it's almost like you like have you just sifted through and you're holding things that are good. Like if you're excited, you call somebody like I'll whistle at somebody's cat or whatever. Like you'll do all kinds of shit after a run. You're fucking rocking. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. You're left with

that you, you've kind of run into the best parts of you. Yeah. Okay, sorry, go on. No, that's uh, so that was it. That's it. Like that's that was a start of it. It was just like

“so that's how it started. Yeah. And then, you know, I signed up for a marathon and I think the”

competitor in me was like, all right, I did a marathon. Can I do 30 miles? Can I do 50 miles? And I started doing some charity runs to raise money and awareness for a nonprofit for love-like Lori Legacy. Yeah, I thought it was one of your friends. Mother's had passed away. Yeah, she passed away from Pinker at a cancer in 2020. What's her? Lori. Lori. Lori Weber. Lori Weber. Yeah. What was it guys name? Blake Blake Weber. Yeah. And that man that I think that was a real

turning point for me and how I related to running and how I could basically have a relationship with this sport that was outside of outcomes and rewards because that's all I focused on in college. Like if we, the goal is to win a national championship. If we didn't win a national championship,

I was not worthy. We never won a national championship. So does that mean like I'm going to

“rest my life thinking that I'm not worthy of anything because I didn't get an outcome. And through”

these love like Lori runs, it was beautiful to be able to, I don't know what it's like to lose my mom. I'll never know what that feels like at least up until now, right? And at least not in the way that Blake lost his mom. And there's a lot of pain and a lot of hurt and a lot of working through emotional stuff where through these runs, we would get to walk and run side by side. And I would experience this physical pain that would force me to go internal and kind of deal with

it that way. And at the same time, walk a line side of brother who was also going through a different type of pain. And it was almost a a point where we can now connect on how to talk and move through this pain together, even though there are different things. Because pain is pain, right? If you're hurt, that's all you're experiencing. That's all like, but we are connected by pain in a way where we can start to, like if I'm hurting, I'm better able to understand if you're hurting. If I've

never experienced pain or hurt, I don't, I don't know how to relate to you. But when we can

experience it together and be open and vulnerable about what we're going through and what we're struggling with, it was a phenomenal opportunity to see pain is not something to avoid, but to really like, all right, let's pull up our sleeves and let's get into it. Yeah, let's, let's figure out what this means. Amen, dude. Yeah, man, going on, like, I'll go on to walk with a friend or something like that. And it's like, that's when we get the most like, you know, it's like when you're just

something in action. And they say our body, like, holds so much of our pain to, of course, if you're taking some action that is starting to call it that will, like, in turn, like, make your body have to process some pain. Then it makes sense that it could also process

I don't know if there's science behind that, but I'm sure that there is. But anyway,

also, I don't know exactly what I'm talking about, but I never have either. I've heard you talk

about using journaling as like, I don't want to say modality. I don't know what that word means,

“but I think I do. But as like, I guess almost as like a written, like a confidant on your journey.”

Like, I've just heard you talk a lot about journaling and how you use it and how you've used it on your journey of, like, kind of self-discovery. Can you kind of take me through some of that, like, what that experience has been like? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so when I was going through, I talked about that moment in college where I had to reevaluate and actually take a look at, maybe it's not everyone else, maybe it's not every situation. It's me and my actions.

I was nudged by our athletic trainer to go see a sports psychiatrist that would come to campus on Thursdays and her practice for me was to get a journal and start writing in it. And what I noticed that I've been able to go back and read and see the process of my thoughts over a period of time is how hard I was on myself, how the voice for me back in the day was like, you idiot, you effing failure, how could you, you said you weren't going to do this thing and you did it again,

and like I would, I was so adamant about like, okay, I'm not going, you know, college kid, create the the biggest sacrifice that made in college was my junior year for New Year's Eve. I said I wasn't going to drink hard alcohol, but I was going to drink beer, man, like, because, yeah, like, I'll make a sacrifice, but not one that's enough where it's truly a sacrifice. Got it. And, you know, maybe, maybe three months of like doing a good job on that,

I'd have some hard alcohol and I would just beat myself up over it. Like, I can't believe you did this again, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I guess the more I wrote, the more I was able to understand what voice was playing in my head and recognize that dude, maybe this isn't even my, like, why would I talk to myself this way? I wouldn't talk to you this way. I wouldn't talk to a friend this way. And so to see it all laid out and then to understand one, I'm not going to be perfect.

Perfection is not something I can achieve, so I have to stop trying to chase that. It's not possible. And if I'm ever going to grow as a person, I have to release myself of this pressure of the need to be perfect or even the thought that I can be, not possible. Yeah, dude. And when I hold myself to that, I'm holding other people to that. Yeah. And it keeps me away from people. It keeps

me away from like, it keeps me away from so many things, you know, because you're always in this place of

like, there's something of like, uh, this isn't enough or something could be neat, something I know

“something needs to be different. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think about the relationship with my life,”

the time we've grown the most is when we've worked through conflict, the imperfections. And it's like, the imperfections are beautiful. They allow us to see ourselves in a new way. And when we can allow somebody into that experience, we can help each other find the best parts of who we are through our imperfections. And so journaling has been a really phenomenal practice for me to one, allow the thoughts, whether they're positive or negative, to get down on something, so they're

not stuck in my head, rattling around, controlling, like, I want to be present as much as I possibly can. Yeah. And if I got all these thoughts in my head, even if they're like, really cool ideas, they're stuck in there. And I want to get them out so I can just leave them there and I can come back to them at a later time. So journaling has just helped me navigate a lot of the emotional stuff that's going on and also put together plans of who I want to become. Like, okay, if I know this

isn't the voice I want, what type of voice do I want to have internally? Who do I want to let into my life that is, is going to hold me accountable, but also help encourage me and build me up. And how can I be that way for other people? Like, who have I been neglecting? All these, like, just the life stuff. There's, you know, just, there's a good question, man. Yeah, dude. I was like, I'm working with my sponsor right now and I have to write like a fearless list, like things

“that I'm afraid of, dude, and it's crazy, dude. Like the things that I'm really afraid of, you know?”

You don't have to talk about them specifically, but I would never ask you to do that, but

do you, are you, is there a fear that you have of actually pointing to the, the, the deep fears that

almost afraid to know the thing you're most afraid of because then it's there. Oh, wow. Does that make sense? Like, would I even be brave enough to write that thing on most afraid of? Even if it's just for you, right, because then it's still, yeah, right,

“then you can't avoid it anymore. That's where I get to. Dang. What are your thoughts on that?”

That's freaking wild. Like, if there's a tiger behind these, like, dangerous kittens, I'm really down there. Like, if there's a mama cat in the bag, bro, bro, if there is, I'm not going to make it, bro. I wrote down, like, a lot of minor, like, um, I'm trying to think, some of them are, like, kind of topical type things. Like, I'm afraid I'm ugly. I'm afraid. I don't

like, like, um, I'll never, uh, have, like, the physique that I want or I'm afraid, um, you know,

I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to, like, uh, figure out my own stuff to be able to be, like, successful in a marriage. You know, um, and some of them aren't as strong as they used to be, but some of, like, I mean, I probably have, like, 20 more. I think I wrote down, like, maybe 25, things that I'm really afraid of. Let me think of what's a real, real one. You know what? I've always been afraid. I'm, I've always been afraid of that. I'm wasting everybody's time. And I don't

even know where that comes from. But it makes everything else tough because it makes everything else feel like it has to happen fast. I've always been afraid of that. And I don't even know if it's a, I write it as a fear. And maybe it shouldn't have been right now as a fear, but it was just

like a thing. But it's like something that, like, yeah, when I put it together, I'm always afraid

that I've been wasting somebody's time. My whole life I felt like there's this to do, like, I got given it to do list at, like, six days old. And there was, like, 200 million things on it. And I'm saying, yeah, like, it's an invisible, like, like, oh, you're late. Like, my whole life that's been like, yeah, somebody like this in the distance. And it's like, why? But, you know, I don't know. So that's probably a bit like, yeah, or maybe I'm afraid I'm wasting their attention. Maybe that's

part of it, too. Yeah, like, if you're going to give me your attention, I don't want to waste it.

“So that puts, like, a lot of, like, I think probably especially with dating when I was,”

when I was like, when I was in high school college, like, that put a ton of, like, in my 20s, it put a ton of energy on that. Because it was, like, I don't want to wait, you know. So then you got to figure everything out pretty quick. And that isn't allowed for, like, anything to really, you know, kind of grow. It makes things hectic. I don't know. I'm just thinking, some of this, I'm just thinking out loud. Yeah. One thing that I've noticed through this conversation

that I really appreciate about you is you're unafraid, whether you're doing it on purpose or not, have, like, speaking out loud and working through these thoughts in real time. I, there's no expectation that you need to have the perfect dancer or, like, man, you're working through this thought. And I've noticed a few times, you said, like, I don't know anything. You know, a lot. And the way that you think through life, that in and of itself is extremely valuable.

So I just want to encourage you in that. Thanks. Like, that is super, it's helpful for me to recognize that I don't need to have all the answers. Yeah. I think I'll get, I would get a

“afraid to speak because I didn't know, you know, I think at times, or you have to per, like,”

I don't know. Like, sometimes, yeah, you feel like you're, like, well, thanks for saying that. Yeah, yeah, I used to, I feel like I was better at doing that. I used to feel, I think, um, even with podcasting, I think it started to get, like, you know, you have a pressure to want to do good or to be, be at a certain level. And so I think, sometimes I got, you know, I don't know, yeah, maybe sometimes at times, I was like, oh, I need to be able to know more

than, you know, um, who, what do we know about that now? And it's our first time dude. How often

bro, my, uh, my, my friend Megan, she's a therapist up in in Portland, and she's always like,

it's our first time. It's like, this is our first time being alive. Like that we know if you don't say it like, it's like, and we're like, we're all around with so much expectation. But our society puts it on us. And then we, you know, some of us do, but yeah, it's like, yeah, I used to do a better, um, at times I've done a, I've done, I feel like I've been a little more patient with my own thought process. And I used to enjoy that. Yeah. And so thanks for the reminder to

even, like, yeah, it's a good thing. I, I want to get back to that a little bit more, like being like, I'm okay. I'm just figuring this out. Yeah. You know, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.

but I've told this to like, 10 people in the past week. I'm like, he says that when he's thinking

about quitting, he'll think of himself like two days later or something in, in like a comfortable space with as much food and as much like love and consent and what every needs will all be there. And, and he asked that person should I, or what, what, what, what do you say? Yeah, I, I just forecast that comfortable version myself that's out of the painful experience. And I asked that version of myself would he be proud of the effort that I put in if I stepped off the course right now.

“I think more often at least every time I've asked that question, I can't honestly look at”

that person. Yeah. And say you did everything you could out here. And it's, and it's my way of removing myself from the pain because the pain in the discomfort is is a narrative. It's this like thing that's trying like we crave comfort. We crave to get out of discomfort. It's hard for us to do that. Yeah. And even when we're in the midst of it, it's like that's when it's most difficult. So I try and pull myself out of it. And so you'll be running and you'll have this, you'll,

will you actively take a process of thinking? Well, I will lay down on the course. And I will put my head in my arm and I will visualize myself that like whether it's a hotel, whether it's, you know, a friend's house, I will visualize myself for you to spa. And it could be a spa.

“And I'll just, I'll just ask that version like, hey, are we doing everything we can out here?”

And the answer is always no, you have more in you. Like that version would say do get up and keep

moving. That version is also just chilling at that. I respect that version. And I know what you're saying. But in a physical way, that version is like, but no, I hear what you're saying though. Like, yeah, with that version, like, is that version going to just take to have a, but the biggest thing is just having that communication. Yeah. Like, there's a, in two days, there's another me. Yes. That's in a different space. And how does he view what's going on here? Because it's like,

it's a different version, but it's the same version. Yeah. That version still has to live with the decision that this version makes. Yeah. And I do that's life. That's life. It's like, whenever we're confronted with a difficult decision, if you can pull yourself out, whatever you decide

“to do, the future you have to deal with those decisions, as long as you can be proud of it,”

no matter what the outcome is, you're good. Have you developed a, because I'm sure you probably face a lot of moments that you want to quit, right? Have you developed like a relationship with the part of you that wants to quit? Hmm. Like, you understand, does that voice come along so much? Because like, say, I'll be lifting weights in it like, even this morning. I got to bro early and I got my, got my stuff done. And I noticed like, okay, there's this early voice in me.

I want to quit. So, and I'm like, someone's not going to breeze right through that voice. I know, that's just a bullshit. That's a hitchhiker. That guy doesn't even, that voice doesn't even have a home. That thing is just some lame as quitter voice out here. Yeah, with a thumb up, right?

That voice isn't shit. That voice is like, it's eating chips, first of all. So, I know, but then

I'll start to notice, I'll just start to notice some of the, some of the secondary ones. And so, I don't like, but I'm at least now I can notice that first one. It's just like, it's not, it's total like placebo. Yeah. But what, what are the ones that use that you notice? Because you've gone to some depths that are pretty intense to keep going. Yeah. So, very similar to you, like that, those first 24 hours of that voice and that person that wants me to quit is like that comfort quit,

where it's like, and I haven't really invested enough. And, you know, let's just like, let's just step off. But it's easier in a way to get over that because you sort of, you can call out the BS. You see it, like, like, it's a, the hitchhiker. It's not, doesn't have a home. The deeper you go in, the more I feel it is a, a direct confrontation with who I am at my core. And so, the deeper you go, the more it's, the more difficult I feel like it is to sift through. Am I actually

making an excuse in this moment? Or is this something I seriously need to consider? Because

seeing like two versions of myself in my mind. But more, can I take one step? I can I just

sit in this painful experience and know through experience that there is light on the other side of this darkness. And have faith, have faith that I will get there as long as I continue to move forward. And so it's more just combating that narrative and all the other narratives that go on and say, I'm looking at my feet right now. If my feet are moving forward, that is evidence that the story

“in my mind is not the full truth. Can I just keep looking at my feet move forward?”

And we do that sometimes out there. Yeah. You just sit there and watch a move forward. Just watch a move forward. Even if the inside of you in your head is like, I can't do it. Your feet are saying

we can't do this. Wow. Because usually it feels like it's the other way around when you quit.

In what way? Like isn't it like, sometimes it'll be my brain. Oh, no, maybe not. Well, your body like breaking down. But that's a real quit. That's like you can't do it. Yeah. Do that. That's crazy, bro. So you just keep proving to yourself with one next step that you can until your brain follows suit again. Yeah. And it'll come back around like, yeah. The narrative will be like, oh, you've proved it over the last 20 hours. We can stop

feeding him this BS. It doesn't mean that you've completely overcome it. It might come back around. But it is, it's that right there. It's like, okay, and like every step, it's boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So it's like constant evidence. It's constant evidence. It's not until I make this loop, I'll be able to prove to myself that I can go, it's, how can I break it down so that I'm giving myself evidence so fast that the narrative doesn't have an opportunity to like build on

itself. Oh, that's wild. Yeah, because sometimes that thing is so strong. You need that much evidence. Yes. Yeah. They say that in like recovery programs all the time. They say like, you can't think your way in the right action, but you can act your way in the right thinking. Yes. And it just makes me think of that. Yeah. Can I just take one more step in this direction? Huh. Yeah, I can.

And most of the time, that's the answer is, yeah, I can. What are you not good at, Mark?

Because if we keep sitting up here, just massage on each other's ego, this is not going to be

“cool. So what are you not good at? I think that, or where do you have, where do you struggle?”

Where are some specific places that you struggle? I think I struggle with understanding that it's not all about me. Mmm. The ego is so scary. It is very scary. And it's like a shadow that gets long. You don't even notice it. Mm-hmm. It's like the more light they get shine on you this shadow kind of gets longer. And you don't even really notice it. And you turn around and just people are like, you're an asshole. You're like, okay, well, let me figure it out. But no, but no, the ego is a scary

thing because you don't really know how it grows or what causes it to grow sometimes. You know? And I can try and convince myself that I'm doing a good job of maintaining it, but that can also feed my ego. Right. Because if look, I'm doing a good job of maintaining it. Yes. Who's

“doing that? I am. Fuck. I think that's what's kind of happened to me over like, yeah, dude.”

It's like, I don't know. It's interesting. But that's all the journey to it's like, yeah, I don't attach myself to a ton of experience. I kind of feel like I just, everything's just like an experiment sort of that I'm in. Yeah. But like, um, a claim is an interesting thing. You know, being a claim for something, having a claim for something. Like being a plot it or yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because it's scary. Yeah. You know, because your ego will

sit there and just listen to that all day. Yeah. And it's hard to like, even if you try, like, I can tell myself the applause don't matter. But it's almost like my ego or the DNA still picks it up. Picks up that frequency is like, I don't care what you say. We're going to still try and build the apple a little bit. Yeah. Like a little gremlin in the dark. It is, dude. Yeah. How much have a, what's your relationship been like with your own ability to create discipline for yourself?

I find myself struggling with that. So I, I struggle with the word discipline so weird because I just see it as discipline is doing the basic things consistently and sometimes that's hard for me to do. So I try and implement strategies where I can outsource that discipline. So in order to be a

he's got his own gym in Minneapolis and he's one of my great buddies and he's the expert in the gym. If I tried to be the expert in the gym and go to like a planet fitness or someplace and try and do that on my own, I wouldn't have the discipline to do it because motivation isn't there. And motivation is like a feeling where you, you can't rely on that. So for me, so motivation is not something you can rely on, you don't add all. I don't rely on motivation at all because it's, it's how often they're

you motivated like, yeah, you never. I don't know. Like the more you do something, the less motivation

plays a factor. And dude, sometimes I get motivated and I'll be like, oh, dude, I'm motivated. I'm fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, I'm good today. I'm feeling good. For a moment, I don't need to go do anything. I'm already doing good. And then I'll do anything. I love that. I love these things. That's crazy. I never thought about that. So I, I show up in the morning to Yokem's to lift and all I have to do is show up. And what does Jim call him? Yokem's strength. Yokem's strength. Yokem sounds like he's, that's his last

name too. He's this huge dude with long hair. Oh, yeah, land of 10,000 net, land of 10,000 traps. Yeah, bro, dude. Bro, a mouse won't go near his back. Bro, Yokem, that's him. I'll tell you, bro, you could probably sell his seam and on the market. And that's illegal to people. But anyway, so I go to him. So you outsource to you, trust him. I trust him. I don't have to think about my weightlifting. All I have to do is show up. And then when I'm there, I know that

I'm in a space where if I give my best effort, I'm going to get the results because I trust him to do that. Got it. For running, I don't have a coach. And I am really bad at saying, all right, I'm going to set this schedule for this week. And I'm going to do 70 miles. And I'm going to do 10 this day and seven this day. Yeah, that's awesome right there. Oh, it's set Boston. And so what I do is I outsource that there's this challenge called the calendar club challenge. And it's where you run

the number of miles equal to the day of the month. So on the first you run one mile, then two miles.

Then three all the way up to thirty or thirty one miles at the end of the month. And get to run every

“day. You have to run every day. And for me, it's great because I know every mile, I'm running for the”

entire month. I don't have to think about it. And it's a good challenge because towards the end of the month, you're starting to run a lot of miles that then help prepare me for our 60 of a backyard ultra when my legs are tired. My brains tired. I'm missing sleep a little bit more. I'm fatigued. I'm under-fueled because I'm burning so many calories and trying to maintain all of that. And so calendar club is like, now that's my discipline because I don't have to think about it. I've outsourced

the thought process or, you know, if I don't feel like running today, well, I got 20 miles to run a day. I gotta go do that. I don't have a choice in this. Got it. So you just made the commitment and you're in. And then you don't worry about all the extra curriculars of it. No. That's a lot. Yeah, because that's too much sometimes. I don't want to think. Yeah. I don't know if I'm thinking does not help us. I started to notice this a little bit. Sometimes I'm just like, my brain's running,

but I'm not thinking. And when I start to notice that, I'm like, that's not, that's not the best thing because that's just my brain's like, it's just bullshit or whatever. It's just like smoking or whatever. I don't know what my brain is doing right now. But it's just like, it's like throwing

“old thoughts at me. Don't you feel bad about this? Remember this, dude? Or what? But it's not like”

using fun stuff. So it's usually just kind of like try. It's like a your junk folder of an email. Okay. Yeah. It's like the guy with the winner and he's got the controller in his hand, dude. It's like, can you back that controller? Oh, this is all just Park Ween. Yeah. Yeah. Get this guy out of here. Yeah. This guy is not in my head. Yeah. And he had a crazy, the winner

seemed crazy. I only looked at it once. But you didn't get a second look. I don't remember. I would have

get a second. I mean, I could draw it for you on a napkin if I had to. But what I'm saying is only looked at it once, dude. And I was helping my girlfriend. Yeah. But anyway, uh, yeah, dude, it was just a cr... I mean, it was just like a daylight in a park. But anyway, what I'm trying to say here is but yeah, that's not thinking. Yeah. Right. That's my brain just spinning around. So then I start to like, if my brain starts to think a little bit, like I'm actually thinking, um, like,

“oh, what do I think about this or how can I solve this or what's going on? I'll start. I want”

to try and like, I want to start like saying, oh, thank you, brain. Because then it's like, oh,

you get so caught up. Like a lot of times, I'm not even thinking. I'm just like,

I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. Like I like them from my brain. Thanks because it's doing something cool. It's like, how can we do this or what's going on? Or here's somebody's birthday today, or somebody just got, you know, three years of recovery or somebody's heading off to like a, uh, psilocybin journey, just little things. So I can call and congratulate just little things to my brain. Just not fill with my bullshit, right? Yeah. It's like, dude, if I get a thought in the

morning of somebody else and it's not me dude, it is like, oh, dude, it's like my heart just got like a Christmas present. Like the other day I woke up and I was thinking of my sister and it was like,

“the best and I don't mean that in a weird way, but it was like the best thing ever. I was like,”

oh, so nice to wake up thinking about somebody else. Have you found ways to cultivate that?

Yes, for me recently, it's been having a gratitude lesson. People say gratitude lists all the time, but I don't think just writing things down. It doesn't help me. I have to write like, like I'll say like yesterday, I was writing, I'm thankful for my friend Curtis, right? So then I'll think, why am I thankful for my friend Curtis? Well, I'm thankful for when we go on walks together and we talk about stuff. We'll talk about faith. We'll talk about what's really going on in our lives.

And so then I'll think about that. I'll think about all right. That's me. Curtis, we're walking. We're talking about this. We'll joke around. You know, like we'll laugh a little bit. We'll get serious. We'll share about things that have meant something to us. We'll go see his son play football. I'll think about that. And I think, oh, I get to sit in the stands. He's down there on the field. He's coaching his son like how much pride he feels, his wife's in the stands.

She's cheering they got some ridiculous lady that keeps blowing one of those horns or whatever. But I'll attach a lot of thoughts to it. And those thoughts make me feel something. So now I'm have a gratitude list, but I'm feeling something about it. Like this morning, I wrote also, oh, I'm thankful for the doors in my house. And so I thought about, well, how do I feel when I open certain doors? How do I feel when I walk through them? Right? So just trying to attach like actual

“moments to just the writing. And that's just been helping me somehow. I think it's just I'm just”

cultivating a little bit more that I'm not saying I'm perfect or anything about it or anything. Shit, I'm barely, you know, I'm saying we do we out here. But I mean, but that's a cool thing that I started to do. And then here's the crazy part. I start kind of liking it. I'm like, dude, I woke up and I was like, what is something I can be thankful for? And I didn't

think that two months ago. You know, I've always had a decent practice of it, but this is something else.

Yeah, here's, he just says the thanks for pulling this up, Trev. And ultimately, gratitude is more complex than merely expressing courtesy or focusing on positive thinking when you regularly focus or meditate on what you were thankful for, it causes effects that promote well-being, including psychology and physical health. Gratitude affects the amygdala, which regulates the SNS, not sure what that means. And our anxiety responses regularly journey about gratitude or discussing

it as part of a group have long been parts of successful life coaching approaches. It reduces depression. That's something I do think maybe I'm getting ill. I hate talking about stuff, bro. If I'm new to it, because my afraid it's going to go away. Well, okay, what I witnessed in you when you were talking about it's like, your eyes were closed and it was almost like you were back in that experience walking with your friend. Yeah. And you were back in that moment where you felt all that gratitude.

So it was almost like, it was, it was crazy watching this because it was like, you were pulling out that experience and you were feeling it right now. Yeah. And it's like, oh wait, the more we feel the things were most grateful for. It's like, man, that's going to carry with us. Yeah, do that's the thing. Like, I don't know. I'm just started to practice of it. I've probably been doing it about two months now, maybe six weeks, but it's just feeling good. And I have started to

like it a little bit more. And the craziest thing is, I used to be able to only think of a few things I'm grateful for. And now it's like, I'm be able to think of more. So, I don't know, it's been interesting. I'm sure in two days, I'll just be vaping and laying there, touching myself for no reason. But for now, I feel like maybe something new could be going on. I heard you, you had a post this the other day that I thought was really cool when you were, you were talking, this is

“on Instagram, I think. And you were just talking about how things in your life wouldn't be possible”

without Jesus Christ without your faith. Yeah. How is faith like played a role in how did faith like starting your life? Yeah. I mean, I grew up going to Catholic, you know, it was Catholic grade school, alter boy, all that stuff stoked about funerals. That's why you're fast if you're

next week. You're going to have to explain yourself. And he's from Minnesota. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. You're going to have to explain yourself to him. That's true. So went through that, went through

Jesuit high school, went through, you know, it was a Catholic university, but never felt like

it was a choice that I was making. And in high school, I struggled for a number of different reasons, but I struggled making strong, deep rooted connections with people. So I always felt like an outsider. And so I was felt like in order for me to be a part of this group, I have to

“predict how I think they want me to live and be like and the amount of, I don't know if I'd”

call it anxiety, but like I, it was this scared mindset of like trying to predict how they want me to act and always getting it wrong. And then trying to figure, like I was always living up in my head, thinking I knew what was going up in your mind and trying to live that way. Oh, yeah,

bro, if you're like a EMT dude, yeah, when you're living like that, you were literally like an EMT.

You're just like sitting there, wait, like you're like a response team. Yes. It's like how do I respond? Yes. That's it's hectic. Some of that could be being young, but I think also that it's that it's interesting that you were noticing that. Okay, go on. And so leaving high school, I had sort of made this quiet promise with myself that I didn't want to feel that way again.

“And so I chased acceptance. I was like, I'm going to do whatever it I can to get people to”

like me and not live this way anymore. And a lot of things were like, be successful in sports, drink and have a good time. And, you know, I would let my friends shoot me with a blowdart,

being drunk or shoot me with a BB gun because at that was fun. I was I was the center of attention.

Yes, you know. Oh, shoot me. Yeah, dude. How should be? Exactly. Cut off my leg. Okay, let's go. And that worked for a while. You know, that that works. And eventually that led me into a place where I was like, you know, getting in trouble with alcohol, having regrets, having shame, talking about, you know, the things that I talked about earlier if there's like bottling up emotions and having that come out in negative ways. That shame's crazy.

“Oh, that's wild. It'll do some dark things to you. It's crazy. I think most of our country,”

I don't know. I think a lot of us are living in shame, especially men because they're probably pornography and stuff like that. Yeah. And how it's just been able to be so accessible, you know, like, how it was just like, I don't know. Imagine how much shame is rocking around out there. And how shame can be used to control you. Yeah. This is wild. In my spam, in my email, this is like a couple months ago. Someone was trying to

what do you call it? Like, hold me hostage for like Bitcoin. They're like, you got to pay us this amount because we saw you through your camera watching porn and I gave up watching porn when I started following Christ, a little over two and a half years ago. And I'm grateful for that. And I think God for that because maybe in the darkness of me doing that consistently and feeling that shame, I would have allowed that shame to control me. But I'm set free from that now. And I know that's

alive because that's not something that I do anymore. And it's just like that. How many people are falling to that? Yeah. And how you wouldn't. I hope I don't get it. But bring that up. If that's a scam right now, let's take a peek at it. I'm 29 days off of pornography right now. Good. Good. So I'm feeling it. It's the most I've done in a long time. I can't even believe it. It's freeing. But I'm going to keep believing it. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Instead of just feeling like I can't, I'm just going to keep believing it.

Reports of scammers claiming they recorded people watching pornography via their webcam or widespread form of extortion known as sex extortion. The threat victims receive an email or letter claiming a hacker took over their computer, activated their webcam and recorded a split screen video of them viewing explicit websites. The scare tactics scammers often include an old password stolen from a past corporate or website data breach. Wow. In the email subject line, our body to trick the recipient

and to believing their device is fully compromised. Some advanced variants even include a Google street view image of the victim's house to induce panic. That's crazy. The demand, the sender threatens

Usually paid in Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency is sent with a strict deadline. Oh my god.

“Wow. I didn't know this was happening dude. Yeah. It is a bluff. Cyber security experts.”

Cyber security experts and law enforcement agencies note that their claims are almost always

entirely false. The scammers do not have a video of you. Do not have access to your webcam and generally do not possess your content list. Data is bought and spoofed. The password used as proof was bought cheaply off the dark web from old unrelated leaks and the email addresses often spoofed to look like it came from your own account. That's crazy. I didn't know all that was going on to you. I did just for my experience. Right. Wow. Dude, I'm glad we talked about that

because I can't even imagine every dude I know would send at least $30 or $68 or something like that at home. Yeah. At least $140. I mean, every dude I know would continually

are not everybody. A lot of dudes have fallen prey to it and to think of your webcam. Oh man.

Well, at least for me at that time, it was aimed at fulfilling a need that I thought that I could fulfill with something worldly. And yes, pleasure in that regard. Yes, acceptance from people in high school and trying to change that in college and chasing achievement and getting to a point where none of these things fulfilled me. And I think I feel really encouraged and compelled to like, man, there's a lot of things that we think that are going to give us what only God can

give us. Yeah. And I think it's interesting that porn is something that is kind of common place

“and yet it is being used against us. And I think that is something that is important because”

there I did feel shame around it. And I think the answer wasn't to pretend to not feel shame around it. It was to reconcile why I feel shame around it and understand that there's a better way to honor life and honor my thoughts and bring them closer to what God would want them to be. Yeah. And you just have, we have my friend on here who's a poor, he's a poor biography recovery code,

right? And he's amazing dude. He's a greatest dude. He's been through so much. But just all the

things that hijacks that we don't even realize, it's like the way that you look at your spouse, the way that you communicate with women in general. Yes. Just the energy you bring into the world, even, you know, like even if I've been lurking off or whatever, if I'm going out in the world, my energy is just different. So it's like, I don't know, it's not a pressure making anybody feel bad. But just like, yeah, it is, it is like, it is like, it's your own spirit and this like

and this greater energy of a connection with God that you could just, that I believe you could disconnect it from. I felt like I was a slave to it. Like in the, in the, was have it for me. Yeah. I mean, it's like you close the door, you close the shades. It's like everything about it made me feel like I needed to hide myself from the world. Yeah. And then I would take that with me. And like you said, like, people that you would see women that you would see, it would change how I viewed

them. And it would change how I viewed my spouse. Yeah. Yeah. It's all damaging. And I think the way

“the interact with all that stuff just has an effect. That's what I'm saying. That's what I mean. I just”

mean, like, if somebody's like realizing, man, I'm having trouble in my, I'm trouble in my, I'm trouble in, but even just like being around my kids or going to do something fun or having more time for all of that gets affected. I think a little side effects we don't notice. What about like sexual like activity before a race? Well, you not in game. Like, what is that like, because for boxers, they say that that's a thing, you know, what's it like for a marathon runners? Because if I'm

going to run 95 miles, maybe it's better if my wife's waiting for me at the end than if I just left out of a room, you know? Yeah. I actually haven't thought about that too much. Really. So it's not it's not on your, it's not on your radar. No. Oh, yeah. Um, oh yeah. I interrupted you about when you're talking about your, your, uh, relationship with God. Yeah. I wouldn't say in a route, but we, yeah, I would say through chasing all these different things that I thought would fulfill me, I would come

up empty. And for me, it was, you know, I was running around thinking that running was going to be the thing that would give me fame and sponsorships and financial freedom and all of these things

achieving those things? Yeah. Well, it wasn't, they weren't coming in the way that I wanted them to.

“And even in the ways that they were, it wasn't enough to keep me happy and joyful. It was almost”

like it was doing the opposite. And, um, well, so do you almost like did it get to a point you're almost going to quit running at one point? Not necessarily quit, but have a, uh, trying to figure out what the point of me running was got it. You know, I had started doing the charity runs with my friend and have this beautiful relationship and then somewhere along the way, it became this avenue of like, well, I want to be a professional at this in order to be a professional. I need

followers, money, and sponsors. Right. And those, yes, are like tangible things that help you become a professional, but I was chasing them for their end, like for what they could do for me. And, uh, yeah, I was, I was on a run and I was listening to a podcast, uh, with Cameron Haynes and Sally McCray. And they were talking about how in the deepest darkest moments during the races

“that they were reminded that they are made by a strong creator, and that they are, that creator,”

that strength is in them because they're made in his image and his likeness. Wow. And that thought, I was like, maybe this is, this is something that I need to think about. I didn't know how to do that, but it was a thought that was put on my heart. And not even five miles later I come across a friend. His name's Vince. I hadn't seen him in a year. And he's sitting by the lake reading a Bible. I'm like, what's up, Vince? Like, how you doing? What are you doing

out here? What brings you out here? He's like, I have fallen from my faith and something about today, the Holy Spirit put on my heart that I need to come here and I need to read scripture. And the verse he was reading when I interrupted him was in the book of John. And it's, it's a paraphrasing, but it's said the reason you do not know God is because you are not of God. And to me, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, I didn't know what was going to fulfill me. I was

chasing all these things and they weren't, they weren't doing it. And now I have the thought of like, well, what is, what is the relationship with God? Look like. And that scripture was like,

“well, if you want to find out, go find out, go do something about it, go take action,”

join a men's group, go to church, go to some place that you can learn more about understanding what the kingdom of God is all about. And from that point, I started actually taking steps forward. So if you want to build a relationship with a person or a spouse, you don't do so by staying distant from them. You get to know them. You talk to them. You learn about how they love and how they are calling you to live and how they're calling themselves to live. And that's what I

started with was just like, hey, okay, let me open the Bible. I've never done that before. Yeah,

me crack it open. Yeah, what does that even mean? Yeah. Yeah. And those bibles up in a sort of, they sound like a, like, a kind of beer when you open. Some of them, you know, there's a lot of beer up there who ever belongs to God. Here's what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you did not belong to God. Yeah. And so I wanted to hear God, man. Yeah, I, because I tried everything. Oh, here you go. Dude, that's it. I tried everything. What else is there, you know? Like,

yeah, like, when do I admit that to myself? You know, like, I tried everything. I tried everything. Yeah. I tried to do it my way. Yeah. Or I just tried everything. You know, it's crazy to think that God made us because He loved us. You know, that's one of the wildest things. There's it's not wild, but it's like, yeah, the other day we're at this bargaret or Bible study, and they have they were just talking about asking God what you could do for His kingdom, you know? And like,

sometimes if you can really get in a good space and really ask that, I just, I never thought about it

for, you know, just like, really asking God, what can I do for you? Yeah, you know, like, sometimes you can really get in a space where you really feel like a connection. You know, sometimes you're just, you know, I'm saying, you gotta be, you know, there's 30 miles on the counter. It's a 30th of the month. You gotta get through, you know? And you're drive through praying. You were like in the, you know, yes, you're just greeting coffee at the window, but sometimes you

go inside the McDonald's of the Lord. And you really get in there on your knees and use, yeah, I don't know. But yeah, it's like, man, God, what can I do for you, you know?

Yeah, sometimes it's flipping burgers in the back. Yeah, that's all I do. Sometimes it's in the,

the place, the place, center. Yeah, sometimes it's just being an adult that's sitting in the

“ball pit vaping. That's, that's where God asks you. But, no, I don't know. I think there is like,”

I don't know. There can be like some excitement. And like, yeah, there's excitement in that space. If you, if you can, if you can get there with it, I think there's excitement in that space of like, yeah, what could God want me to do? You know, or who could he put in my life that there could be some new way to learn or I don't know. It's just easier when it's like like, maybe if something good happens, it's not just with, I'm just, I'm not the only one that's there and you can be like,

oh, thanks God. You know, it's like, oh, that's cool. It's like, I'm not the only one. It's not just, oh, yeah, otherwise I'm just sitting there by myself. Oh, that was cool. I was neat. You know, but it's like to have somebody to share something with. When, when you were thinking about that

“in that space, were there clear answers that came up for you? Um, no, not really. I think it was”

just like, I felt just grateful that I was thinking about it. You know, yeah, I think it's just better than sitting there with my thoughts and my thoughts or just my, yeah. You know, I think it just feels like some reprieve. Uh, yeah. So I think that's kind of where I'm at with like some of the relationship with God or like kind of like what's going on with me with it, I guess. I don't know,

it's always a little bit different. Um, but yeah, I don't know if I ever even thought I'd exactly

have this conversation, right? You know, so I think it's just like thing, a little things you start to notice, you know, and I'm in a Bible study man, uh, you know, this, this thing that was like kind of nice that happened. There's this musician, his name is Zach John King, and I think he just had a new album that came out actually, but he had, uh, there's this new book. It's called Theo on Golden. Okay. It's by Alan Levy or Alan Levi. Okay. Um, and it's about an old man who goes into

this, uh, sort of who goes into this coffee shop in this town called Golden. But anyway, my buddy's Zach John, my, my, my buddy's Zach had given me this book and he, uh, and it was wrapped up in paper and he said, oh, my dad really loved this book and he thought that you would like it. So we gave it to me as a gift. And I just put it in my truck and like two weeks later, his father passed away. It was like a sudden heart attack. Um, and then two weeks after that, I realized I still had this book and my

truck had never opened it up. And I opened it up and his dad had written in it. He was just like,

I'm so grateful you and my son are friends and I'm so grateful that you guys are learning about God together. Wow. And it was just like this like, uh, I don't know. It was just like, it's just like little things, you know. Um, but it was like a nice moment that he and I got to have that his father was like, you know, his father's still alive here through these words. And I don't know. I kind of not doing the story justice, but no, you are. It was pretty special and he's

a special guy. And it kind of just gave us a like this little connection, you know. So it's just interesting. Um, I don't know. It's all kind of interesting. I get scared to talk about some of that kind of stuff because sometimes Christian people can be like, you know, they can nail you to the cross. Yeah. I was like, bro, he already did that for us. You know, I ever put you to a box down, Karen. So that's on sometimes it's like, uh, I don't know, some of that stuff. I get nervous

talking about in some ways. I know I shouldn't. I don't get nervous talking. I think maybe like in a public way. Yeah. Does it make sense to you? It does make sense to me. And it brings up what you said earlier is like, I have a fear of, I don't know enough. So I feel like the knowledge of it, like almost like I have to have a certain knowledge of it to be able to talk about it and like if

“that's what you say, like, you get nailed to the cross, like, this is where I'm at in my faith journey.”

Yeah. And this is what I know, which is not very much. Yeah. But I'm still curious about it. Yeah. And some of the stories dude are not even that good. I'm going to go in say that straight up, pro. I'm no doctor, sues or whatever or like freaking Oprah, whatever. But some of the stories in there, it's like, bro, this is a B side track dude. It let's be realistic. So I think I'm focusing on like the hit right now. Okay. You know, but on the hits are good, dude. But that's a good hit. The hits are

You know, like, there's been times where like, like, faith is kind of coming to my life in some ways,

“and then it's gone away. Yeah. You know, and I don't know what that's like. I don't know.”

But, uh, yeah, like I had this like, I don't know. I had some, uh, found some other numbers on sex distortion. If you wanted to read these off, we can plug it in. Yeah, dude. I didn't even know. Let's get, okay, great. Thank you so much. Uh, oh, these are cases. Sex distortion is one of the fastest growing online crimes in the world with law enforcement and safety organizations reporting an unprecedented surge in cases of recent

years. While it's difficult to map the exact global numbers, estimated 98% of cases go

unreported due to their fear and shame. I could totally see that. The explosion and reports, the National Center for Missing and Exploded Children in the United States received 26,7186 stores and reports via its cyber tip line in 2023, a massive jump from 10,700 reports in 2022, and just 139 in 2021. So it's growing, um, uh, NC, MSC now averages roughly 812 reports of sex distortion per week. Um, teenage impact research from youth advocacy organization thorn indicates that one

in five teenagers report experiencing some form of extortion online, other youth studies place

the rate around 120. Dude, that's got to be horrible for kids. Yeah, teenage boys in young men are

most at risk. Young men age 14 to 24 have become the primary targets of financial sex distortion. For example, reports from cyberclip.ca indicate that 83% of victims are male when the gender is known. Dang. Bomber. And LGBTQ youth study show that LGBTQ plus individuals plus ena's canter experience disproportionately higher rates of both victimization and subsequent mental health distress compared to their peers. Probably because they're saying not only were

you looking at pornography, but you were looking at gay pornography. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, dark, dark. That's why we got to keep going. Yeah. One step forward. That's it. Forward. One step at a time. Let's look at some of this mark. Uh, doubtal poor. Uh, sorry. Let's, sorry. I did not mean that. It

“will take that out. Let's look at some of this mark, doubtal core. That's what I made to some of the”

mark, doubtal core that's out there. Let's just end to the lower from what a menace this dude must be when you're out there running. It's the middle of the night. A lot of these men have not even seen their wives were children for three days. And this total menace comes up the course. Let me see some of it, bro. And this was at the most recent race. This was at the ultra, yeah. Yeah. This message is for Sam Harvey, back at Basecamp. I didn't come

for 158 souls. I came for one hundred and fifty nine and you can count on that. Yeah. Oh, my god. I did it. My favorite part is listening to the commentators on that. Oh, that crazy dude. Do you have to keep your mentality that high out there? Like is it an active thing like, or are there active moments where you're like, okay, what do I think of now to get me to that finish line? Like, okay, I'm going to think of this loops for my family. This

loops for my mom. This loops for my, you know, do you think like that? Are there little things you think of that get you to that next moment? Yes, and no. I mean, uh, there's one thing that kept me going out there at least deeper into the race is like, part of what I get to do in running

“is that's how I provide for my family and through the different avenues of what that represents.”

Some of the best things that I get to do is I get to come home the week after or the weeks after and it'll be a Wednesday and my wife and I will get to hang out and not worry about where we need to be. And if I can step further into that darkness, if I can take steps towards the discomfort and over the overcome the pain of that situation, the reward for that is a movie on a Wednesday with my wife. Brother, I will go through more pain to experience that type of freedom and peace.

Yeah. And so like that is a big thing that keeps me going out there is this, this pain is nothing compared to the light that is waiting for me. Wow. And I know that's coming for me. Right. If I can

harder actually like bring it on because light and love will always overcome the darkness.

That's in running and that's in life and that's in our faith. That's in our family and our friends, our relationship, everything. Light and love will overcome the darkness and these races provide me evidence for that and I get to keep stepping into that. And yeah, my wife is a big big light in my life. Lucy's her name. Yeah, which means light. Does it really? Yeah, it does. Nice, Lucy. And you guys have a baby on the way. We do have a baby. That is true. Yeah.

Let's go. So that was another, you know, and do you know if it's going to be a boy or girl yet? We don't know that yet. Brother, we, uh, I don't know why I keep saying brother like that. It's okay, dude. But uh, we put on a Hulk hug. I'm sure it won't. Whatever, we got to do to get through this. Uh, we had the first 10 week ultrasound. And we met with the midwife two days ago and I

heard the heartbeat for the first time. And you've never done a 10 week ultrasound. Uh,

never done a 10 week ultrasound with the baby has a baby has. Wow. So we know where this kids had it to the loop. It's another loop. Oh, congratulations, man. Was that pretty amazing? Yeah, it was um, wow, dude. That's hard to put into words because I like, I heard the heart beat and it was like, this is life. And I'm listening to it. But I can't see it. Yeah. But it's there. It's, it's just a weird. I don't even know what the, yeah, it's just, it was beautiful. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, dude. And then, you know what's so interesting about the heartbeat that I think about some times, Mark? It's like, my heartbeat. It's my father, my mother's heartbeat. It's together, right? So it's like, this beat has been going like, the radio has been left on, bro. Like, it, this is like, this is like the timbre of like, I mean, I don't even know how long my family's even been alive. Yeah. But it's like, it's the, like, this beat is just, I'm just a remix of all the people

“that have been here and that created me, dude. And that's it. Like, that's what you make. Like, you”

make the beat. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. Really, you think about it. Yeah. So someone's like, if you miss your mother or you miss your father, if there's somebody, like, you can like, like, that's why, like, that beat is just right there. It's kind of wild sometimes. Sometimes, sometimes I'll do that and just like, kind of like, think about a family member that's gone. You know, it's kind of cool.

That is really cool. I never thought about that. Yeah. That's the thing, bro. That's the remix,

bro. That's the marked out of Lucy remix, bro. That's the new track. Another loop, man. It's another loop, bro. That's perfect. Um, you do public speaking now. You do, um, you go out and talk to people and share what you're journey and your faith is it basically most or what it, what is it, some of that out when you go to these, when you go to different schools and events. Yeah.

“So the way I think about running is in these three buckets under this same mission of I'm”

trying to figure out what I'm truly capable of and I want to help other people discover that too. The first bucket is I demonstrate that. I do the arrow head 135. I do the back air dultras and I put the words into action. The next step is share that share the tools and the lessons that I use in the toughest moments out on the race on the course to help me overcome those and then whether that's through YouTube or Instagram or going out in publicly speaking that to young men and

women who, you know, man, I would have loved to hear these lessons as a high school and college kid where I was struggling to find my purpose and my identity and what was really important and to corporations who are looking to for ways to kind of rejuvenate their their culture. So then there's that aspect and the third is to create opportunities for that to happen. So like one thing we do in Minnesota with my buddy Kelly and his business. It's a sonic hole

tub business and we'll run three miles in the middle of the winter when it's minus 10 degrees out and we'll run to a cold spot in the Mississippi River. We'll crack open the ice with sledge hammers. We'll take a two minute cold prunge and then we'll run two miles back to the sonos and embrace north and what I get to experience in that moment is somebody who is afraid of what this experience could be and watch that fear build over three miles and then they get to a hole and they jump in

and it's like all that fear that they'd built up in their mind they realized the experience was

“not as scary as the reality of the situation and that's what being in a backyard is for me that's”

what being in a you know the arrowhead is for me it is experience that and how can I bring that

like you can do this too you don't have to do you know 94 hours in a backyard to experience

“that fool that guy got them all with the two ladies yeah well that's what I'm talking about dude”

that guy did I've never seen two ladies and then this is if you've ever either did but this

dude knows that's what happens upstream hell you come up stream more often I'm off stream dude what happens upstream stays upstream bro mark doubtful thanks so much man is there anything else that you want to discuss before you go no I I just want to thank you thank you for your time and I guess I'd really thank you for the way that you think about things because it's truly encouraging to hear you think and talk out loud and it encourages me to be able to do that

more and more without fear of needing to be perfect oh thanks dude yeah I'm just trying my best you know I think most people are and I sometimes I yeah and even then I wish I did better at it you know that's a crazy statement I'm trying my best and then the next statement out of my mouth is man I wish I did better that's that's just proof right there what I'm talking about like got a monitor these voices man yeah but so grateful I got to hear yours today dude and that's

one that's going to keep bringing to my ears and yeah just thanks so much for your journey tell Lucy thank you for letting her husband leave while she's pregnant and letting you escape

and and yeah dude we'll be keeping tabs and we want to donate to your friends charity amazing

for his mother what's it's called Lori love like Lori legacy love like Lori legacy yeah okay thank you

“yeah you bet we'll keep in touch about it and we'll donate to it right here that's what it is”

love like Lori dot com uh living the legacy running when is the run so this run the website's a little bit outdated but you can still donate to it but this was the third charity one redid which was a 500 mile run from Springfield Illinois to St. Paul okay I'll be in the van but this happened in 2022 oh it did okay yes yes yeah got it got it well Lori we miss you and uh grateful to think about you today and say your name out loud

and um yep Mark got a thanks so much brother thank you to you yeah man as gründerin and gründer will you for all the food quickly come on come on

egal ob by a product market fit then next Schritt or your first big enterprise deal

doch mit kei the Entwicklungs Emaschneller macht steigen auch die Anforderungen an Sicherheit and that's for all the money for that team in the security and compliance right on geht ermöglicht waks tun

“where too long waks brimst is out that's how set in many startups fru au fanta und waksen sich er weiter”

und wenn's als audid geht sein noch ein breit nicht erst in monapen jetzt starten auf wannterpunkt come