Danny Combs: Building Opportunities In Autism Employment

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It only takes a couple of seconds and it helps us show reach more families who need to hear these conversations. Thanks for being here, our guest today is someone who's been doing incredible work in the autism community, especially when it comes to employment and opportunity. Danny Cones has been deeply involved in helping create real jobs and real pathways for autistic

individuals through his work with tech. He's also involved with initiatives through the state of Colorado that focus on neurodiversity in the workplace.

“The last time Danny and I spoke, we talked about the vision of building meaningful employment”

opportunities for autistic individuals. Today, we're going to revisit that conversation, talk about the progress that's been made and look ahead at where things are going. So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors.

Thanks for joining us today. Yeah, I've been looking forward to it. I'm so glad we were able to connect. Yeah, for me, too, give us a little information on what you've been up to since we laughed.

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to believe. Last time, we had spoken. Last time, you and I had the chance in privilege to connect. It was honored to have received a congressionalment of Honor Society, Citizen Honor Award for my work with the autism community, specifically here in Colorado with tech and the

Colorado University Chamber of Commerce and a book that I had written and have since since I had spoken to, I ended up getting appointed by the governor here in Colorado to work for a new office called the Colorado Disability Opportunity Office. That's awesome. Tell us a little bit more about it.

It's really pretty fantastic in the sense that Colorado became one of the first states to have a disability policy advisor or most states to the governor will have somebody that advises them on education, transportation, housing, all those kind of things, however, not disability, which seems kind of surprising. Colorado does, and as this governor's term has been coming to an end, he wanted to make

sure that kept going. And so they ended up making a whole new state office to do just that. They didn't want to raise taxes to do it, and so they got really creative in the way they went around it as they ended up re-issuing his historic license plates here in Colorado.

So not like, you know, in Tennessee, you would have if you're a UT fan of volunteers, you have a Tennessee Titans plate or disabled veterans plate or something along that. They have that here in Colorado too. Nothing like that. They took historic plates from the 50s, the 60s, et cetera, and brought them back and

said, OK, the one that's really popular for us is an all-black plate with white lettering is very simple. It looks a lot like the black and yellow out in California. If you'd like this license plate, you can do it. It's 25 bucks.

Well, people turns out really like historic things like that, but it's clean and simple and not branded with this favorite sports team or cause.

It's now generating about a million and a half bucks in length for us, $25 a

pop. Great. Which is just wild. It's fantastic. And with that, it makes it sustainable funding because every year when somebody wants to

re-issue their plate, get their little stickers for their license plate, they have to pay it again. It's really creative and we get to advise that doesn't mean that, you know, we get the final say, but it's really neat to have a seat at the table and make sure that the voice of our community is heard. And then we get to take that funding and provide grant opportunities for a whole bunch of

groups throughout the state. And for profits and nonprofits to a state offices, municipalities, other funding's open to everybody. As long as there is at least a committee of folks who disabilities overseen it, which were really proud of, to make sure there's nothing about it without us kind of mindset.

Does this funding cover all disabilities? It does.

Yeah, it covers all disabilities, which is amazing.

And especially with the work that I've got to do in the autism.

“And I think that the governor asked me to do this because building tact and the”

color of neurodiversity chamber of commerce and those teams from ground up, this very much feels like a startup.

With that startup, kind of mindset, one of the things I'm excited to be starting in

your neck of the woods in Tennessee is a new group called Buildable. And it's kind of taking the idea that we've been working on with tact for all these years in the fact that no one has copied this idea of using the skill trades as vessels to develop employment skills, just to get neurodivergent individuals. And here in Colorado, at least it has grown to be the most successful transition to

employment program in the state. knife over a thousand students was a thousand fifty seven students went through it last year. We regularly get folks that reach out and say we'd like to do this in our state. Well, we're going to do it. We're doing it under a different name because folks have advised us the people that

are smart and then be with the fancy law degrees advised us to do it this way. All right. It'll be a separate organization, but it's kind of taking the IP behind that. And it's taking it creating this platform and transition, educational transition, training and education program for autistic and neurodivergent individuals to get job skills and

“then hopefully to careers that's what we're trying to do.”

When does it plan to start a Nashville actually in March? Well, yeah.

So we found Bellmont University has decided to be the first partner university for our

workshops. We shared it at Vanderbilt. Bellmont's come on board as far as hosting some of the classes and we're having these workshop opportunities for children, young adults and grown adults to kind of come in and get the opportunity to try and explore, discover, create, see if it's something that they're interested

in doing. And so like we're doing like a ukulele making class, for example, for how many build ukuleles and actually give it a shot. And the idea is that we're going to be empowering these individuals to try and see if it's something they like.

And then we're also then building up, you know, the students that might be interested for when we get this going full time. When do you think that will be? Hopefully it's this fall. That's our goal by the time we acquire the facility, get it renovated and start going.

That's our plan. But where do you see this developing and what do you see it developing into? It's kind of a startup like you mentioned. How do you see this evolving? I mean, this could be unlimited in what you do.

What are your main objectives and what are you focusing on in getting this thing started?

The main focus at first is to find a couple trades that people seem interested in.

And we've got to thankfully a lot of really big corporation partners that love the work that we've done kind of the proof of concept with tact that have come on board. So, for example, an automatic super is a really great partner. They've agreed that, you know, they will come to those dealerships that are selling those

“products on our behalf and say, "Hey, there's this training program, you should hire their”

graduates." And it comes from them rather than us just knocking on the door or credibility behind that. What we're hoping to do is to start kind of shifting that paradigm of workforce and saying, "Hey, everybody's looking for workers, specifically among the autism community being the highest unemployed demographic in the country.

We have got this opportunity to have real meaningful careers. Why don't you come through our program and let us support that effort in that life change for you?" And so, we're hoping that the folks in Tennessee it seems like they're already getting very excited about it.

We'll come on board with that. And then, as we've shared the idea, we've had about 15 states that have also expressed interest and then those are at different stages of getting started up. So, hopefully, when you and I talk in another two years, we'll start a few years as we spoke last.

I know there will be, you know, multiple of these all over the country. That's the goal. The last time I talked with you, I do remember you was speaking about trying to increase tact across the country. Yeah.

So, is it more focused on doing this and keeping tact in the background for more of the support?

“Yeah, there'll be separate organizations, I think what tact is doing in Colorado is just”

working so well in a so blended to the community. We want to make sure that we're starting here with buildable, it honors that and doesn't take away from that. As we've been traveling around and really meeting with folks from all over the country, that have successfully spread non-profits across the country.

One thing that's been really interesting to see is there doesn't necessarily be a level of consistency where you go to one and one state and another and another state. You're not necessarily getting that same product. So, we want to make sure that by doing it this way, we're taking that opportunity, but trying to kind of was franchise it, if you will, which you can't do with a nonprofit that

we're able to control the idea that makes sure that the team is teaching the way that we think they should teach structuring the classrooms, the way that we think they should structure them, have the right tools that we think they should be using all of those things so that we can do our best to guarantee that individuals are going to be successful. What are some of the challenges that you still have to encounter in turning this into

a reality? You know, finding the right people is very, very difficult. There's a lot of well-meaning people that want to help, but the thing is, and you know, I mean, you're not to renew yourself when you're starting something up, it is hard and it's sensitive and, you know, specifically in the trades, there's a lot of tools and those

tools are not cheap. Unfortunately, while well-meaning people want to get things set up, once they start pricing out what classrooms full of power tools and hand tools and all that equipment looks

and be can handle transportation and infrastructure for that kind of equipment. There's a few of those dominoes that need to fall in alignment for it to be successful. So trying to find those locations and then also are near, you know, jobs because times

we get folks in rural environments that reach out, which would be incredible, but if there's

no opportunity for jobs and those environments, what becomes the point of the training program with crosses into that semi-day treatment kind of program. Yeah, that makes total sense. Now, working for the state versus this, what are some of the differences you've seen doing this?

You know, taking this position with the state, I'm so grateful I got the opportunity to do it because it feels like you get a bigger picture of where everybody is at, as far as everything is at at that point. To that being said, I've been able to meet all kinds of nonprofits across the state that I hadn't had access to before in the past, seen where they're at.

I understand nonprofits even more than having run one, just kind of interesting. I feel like it both build you up and then also keep you humble, understanding the state processes and why they are the way that they are is really interesting too.

“I think I've learned so much about policy.”

I mean, how the policy portion of it, how that really either can make or break outcomes in opportunity for individuals and having the chance to help support that, I'm really grateful for that. I think that's going to help have those kind of conversations and learning how to speak that language in the future understates.

Yeah, that's great. Now, I'm curious. Yeah. I'm doing a special and may that's incorporating around the mental health part of it. But I'm dealing with state legislators, state senators, former US House of Representatives,

and they're all telling me how they try to create legislation that will help the justice system and all the other things that go along with autism and mental health. If you run into those situations to where you're talking with legislators and senators and all that, to where you see the frustration that everybody's having and trying to get something passed.

Oh, absolutely.

“And I think the hard thing is, I mean, the way that the system is structured, right?”

But those legislators, they mean really well. They have really good intent. A lot of cases

they've never run a state agency or office, even the policies that they develop.

They don't understand how that truthfully impacts those running those state offices and let alone the interaction between those offices and the nonprofits that they're trying to serve and the community members are trying to serve. The most interesting thing that I have found is, like for example, we're doing a needs assessment here in Colorado.

Our office is getting to spearhead and I'm really excited about it. And it's come up that no other state that we've been able to find and we talk to a whole bunch of states and the contractor we've hired to help us write has also researched has ever done this. And what I mean by the needs assessment is we don't have any real information of how many

folks are in the for example in the state have autism. We don't really know. We have general studies that, you know, the CDC does or the World Health Organization does. It's taken from a handful of states from one specific age demographic and then we paint broad brushes, well, how do you put in place a solid strategy and program infrastructure

“if you don't really know who you're trying to serve at that point?”

So, to really trying to begin with the end mind and to your point about those legislatures, they again, they mean really well, but they're not really with those road blocks. They could stand in the way or they don't really understand the ideas that they have, how they're going to serve the community, but they don't have all the actual data at the same time too.

Have you been able to give them some advice where you operated tack for so long? You've worked with non-profits, do you understand how they operate? So have you been able to give them some real life everyday operational advice? Oh, absolutely. I find that they want to learn like they're hungry, but even the way that they can go about

it is rather limited. That being said, I've worked with state level. Things I've done, the federal level was getting to work with the NERN diverse Air Force, where we were able to change the National Defense Authorization Act for NERN divergent folks going into the Air and Space Force, was really, really very happy to be part of that team.

They got to work on that, and I was not the league on that.

I was fortunate to work with some incredible individuals.

I just got to be part of that team. I would be really curious to see what it would be like to work with the more federal level representatives for sure. Yes, it certainly can be eye-opening in the way that they do their legislation. Yeah.

You do have a certain amount of legislators and senators that really do want to help. Then you have a certain group of those that have no concept or understanding about it. And unfortunately, because they don't understand, they're the ones that will veto. Yeah. I spoke with one legislator, they got a unanimous vote through the house, and then when

it got to the Senate, unfortunately, it died. We still have a lot of people that we have to get information to, so they can understand what is needed to help these people. They have to understand that this is not just national, it is also worldwide.

Yeah.

“Well, I think to your point that the communication and the way that we articulate the need,”

the strengths, the assets of community, we need to unify that. And I think one thing that has not helped our community specifically in the autism world is some of the arguments that come up from time to time. And rather than saying, OK, you said something one way that I maybe wouldn't have said it that way, understanding the centralized point in mission and heart, or at the same core,

at that point. In the nonprofit world, too, unfortunately, nonprofits are so competitive and they're so siloed in their scope of work, writing over similar grants, same kind of buckets, but they don't necessarily elaborate. When you look at for profits, they can kind of cannibalize each other, merge, combine,

partner. You don't really see nonprofits doing that very much. I think if there was more of an alignment of nonprofits working together in concert,

I think that could be a really powerful force to start really kind of shifting the narrative

because then everybody's saying the same thing. I would imagine that at that point, they would be more likely to listen. You know, I think you kind of said it right. I find that the bigger charities, they do not play well together. Yeah.

I find some of the smaller ones will reach out some, and at least communicate at some level. Even though they're going for that same dollar, they do understand this a certain need. They all have to have. Yep. That's a great way to say it.

That's a fair point, too. But especially when you start looking at non-profits, A, not very many, make it over five years, and then either once that get over half million into the, you know, making millions of dollars years, even smaller pool at that point. Right.

The other ones are definitely more collaborative because it's almost like a survival point of you at that point, too. Very true. Now, what are you hoping to see? I know you're trying to push this Nashville collaborative as high as the possibly can go.

Yeah. How do you see it evolving in Nashville beyond Belmont and some of the other things we've already discussed? Yeah.

I think when we get our own facility and get that going, I think we can make an incredible

hub in opportunity. I think as Nashville and Tennessee have been growing dramatically, the exciting opportunity exists to make sure that, you know, there is a program that centralized that can bring together those non-profits, get everybody collaborating and unify around the idea that our kids deserve an opportunity to be successful and that there is a pathway forward to actually lead towards

that because just like we've experienced here in Colorado, just like what Tennessee's experiencing in other states, too, is there isn't that real opportunity for a community. I mean, there's a reason that when you and I spoke two years ago about the statistics of employment for autistic individuals, it has not changed. Yeah.

That's not good. One years ago, it still hasn't changed and people keep going about things in the same way that they've been going around them and then wondering why we're not getting different results.

And I think what buildable has the opportunity to bring it saying, hey, this is something

different. This is something unique. This has a pathway and it's opening doors to actually create authentic opportunities and differentiating between jobs and careers.

“And I think that's an important thing to recognize a difference between because what happens”

a lot with like day treatment programs and they do feel trips and other exploratory events that might lead towards a part-time job working at a coffee house or at a restaurant. And if that's what somebody wants, then God bless them. I hope that they love it. Sure.

But if they want more or something different, I should say, where they're working in a trade, working in tech, etc., then they should also get that same opportunity and unfortunately that has not happened where we've been kind of put to the side and said, okay, you can be here. This is what's available options are and that kind of takes away real opportunity and

choice that neurotypical would normally have. The unfortunate situation I still see that the autistic community still has is the perception from the potential employers on understanding what autism is. Yeah. Unfortunately, there is still a general lack of what autism is.

Yeah. I see a very difficult part of your job and that's not just educating the autistic community on what needs to be done. But educating the neurotypical community on what autistic people can do to help them.

“Well, I mean, I think that's what goes back to that unity message.”

I mean, I remember when tech started, we would talk about our students as autistic and people would be like, "No, no, you can't say that. You have to say person with autism." Now, if you said person with autism versus autistic, it's flip-flops, right? Rather than missing the message of what we were trying to achieve, they got caught up in the language.

I use that because if they're well-meaning, they didn't mean anything by it other than the sense that by taking energy from what's the opportunities being presented to focus on things like that, you are missing a greater opportunity to unify around a team and actually get that genuine job or career for that individual. That means that's just an example, but I think we need to come together and do that.

I think, you know, in the neurodiversity community as a whole, it seemed like last year there was almost to set back where folks that were getting in this DEI space miss that really

and if the language shifts to the value proposition, a return on investment for businesses

and a unified way, that's a much stronger argument to make for a program supporting our community. Yeah, business, especially those for-profit businesses, many times, they only look at their bottom line.

“They have to make sure the ROI is good, so the only thing I see as a path forward is to”

change the language so they're not looking at it as autistic versus neurotypical. They're looking at, "Can this person do the job I need and make me dollars?" Yeah, I agree. A hundred percent. I think we need more folks saying that same thing is you're exactly right.

Yes. Yeah, like you say, we have gotten so wrapped up in the language of the way it's being presented like a big thing now is I've heard, is it level one, level two, or level three? A lot of people have the terminology so they want to use, but in my opinion, I think they're missing a very big point.

What needs to be put across is these autistic people can do everything and anything that a neurotypical can do. Sometimes it's just presentation. A hundred percent and I think that's where truly buying into the notion of changing the environment and not asking the individual to change, like meeting the individual where they're at,

where you want to go and then elevate them to that level.

“I think traditional education and training programs where they've suffered and where they've”

in all fairness, you know, in a public school setting, for example, those teachers just aren't set up for success. They're just not. The classrooms are too big, they don't have enough resources, they don't have enough support. They shoot down the middle and it's like the bell curve, they're trying to get as many

as they can. They do the best they can.

The reality is people don't all learn the same way, they don't all retain information

the same way, they don't all progress in their skill development, some elevate really quickly then slow down, some progress really slowly then all of a sudden they can do all these amazing things. That's okay. I think it's an opportunity too to really reframe on our broader scale.

How do we relic education in general? How do we relic training in general? As even neuro-typical kids aren't being served in the ways that they deserve to be served. No, you brought up. If we have this conversation in two years, let's jump ahead a little more.

“If we have this conversation in five years, what do you think it will look like then?”

If you were to tell me five years ago, you think that we were still overcoming COVID, I mean, that just feels like a lifetime ago, right, and what we all went through with that. In five years, honestly, I would love to see that the entire system has changed to the point that we don't even need programs like this because everybody is doing this, that we have truly embraced our entire community, that we have shifted as a system, that genuine

inclusion of equality of opportunities exists for everybody uniformly. That would be the dream. I don't think we'll be there, and especially having a chance to not work in a state government seeing how slow the ship turns, but I think we can get more interested parties and the more folks like you that take the time to listen to those of us that are kind of practitioners

in a way that are demonstrating that this idea can work. I think the more of those of us that get our voices out there and together again, uniformly, I think the more likely we are to get some people higher up that can really join us in making that change. I would like to see that take place if possible.

Another thing that we all have to think about is, of course, the parents of the autistic

children, they always want what's best for the child, unfortunately, sometimes they're

not looking at reality. How do we get them so they can have small successes? The reality will unfortunately set in that they're not getting them exactly where they want to be, but they will realize they are getting small successes. This way it not only helps the parents, it also helps the community by showing them that

things can actually change. That's such a great question on so many levels because one of the things that's a very real, I don't want to say fear, but a very real train that's coming down the tracks. I don't know what a better way to say it is. What's happening now is for the autism community, there's a large number that live at home

with Eugene Caregivers. This is the first generation of autistic individuals that for a lot of them or a large group of them did not end up in institutions, which in my mind is a good thing. However, we have not in that same period of time built up the infrastructure to support them outside of institutionalism other than their parents.

And when you look at how parents are getting older and in a lot of cases, parents are in their 70s or 80s and still taking care of their autistic child, what happens next? And for some reason, that's another elephant in the room that no one is talking about. So I think using that as an example for the current parents of younger children recognizing they have to start looking at programs like this in investing in real opportunity for

their kids for the future, because another generation of parents trying to take care of their

What that looks like?

I don't have the answer for that one.

“I think that's a whole other nut that needs to be cracked, housing and living situation.”

But it's something that is going to be, I'm guessing, very regularly talked about here in the next couple of years because I don't know what's going to happen to those individuals when their parents really start passing and there's going to be a lot of them that's going to start happening. And there you see little pockets of housing initiatives or inclusive housing initiatives

taking place, which is great, but it's certainly that enough that's going to capture everybody at that point. Yeah, I definitely agree.

This June is my third year of doing my podcast, congratulations.

You have grown tremendously in three years. Good for you. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that.

We're in Nashville and talking with everyone. I can see where there is so much more that needs to be done to correct all these things that we've just talked about. But that's a whole, another podcast episode. So in closing, what would you like to leave with our listeners giving them the thoughts of what you're trying to do?

“I think I would love to leave the listeners with a thought that our kids can do amazing”

things when we give them the opportunity to do those amazing things and to not limit their

scope of what they think is achievable. I mean, you talked about autism level one, two, three, or if you were talking about cis levels one through seven, our kids and ourselves get put into boxes. However, I find that individuals can regularly break out of those boxes when you elevate and empower them and give them the tools to truly be successful.

And I hope that both come by and see what we're trying to build in Nashville and give it a chance. And I think they'll be blown away the opportunity of what their kids can do.

“And I think they'll be proud of their challenges that always are, but also the future that”

exists for them now. Yeah, well, I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today. Yeah, me too. Thanks again for making the time. My pleasure.

Thanks again. A big thank you to our guests for sharing their journey. If today's conversation helped you see the world a little differently, then we're doing exactly what we hope to do. Until next time, keep believing, keep learning, and most importantly, keep asking yourself

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