Bull Shark Attack - Triathlon Chuck and the Big Bull Shark

We've just been collaborating with them since almost the beginning.

“We really liked them personally. We love their show.”

And so we're so excited to announce that we're finally doing a trip with Danielle and Cassie from National Park after Dark.

And it's going to be a really amazing trip.

We wanted to go big if we were going to do a trip together and we're really going big. We are going to go to the small barred archipelago, I should have had Jeff say it, but I'm saying it. Next June, 2027 on an amazing cruise where we hope to see polar bears, walrus, Arctic Fox, tons of cool birds and just have an incredible time with some incredible people. Anyone can sign up for this trip, but we are going to offer the link to our Patreon subscribers first. The link will be posted to Patreon sometime this week and they're going to have 48 hours to sign up before we then send the link.

To the rest of our audience. So if this is a trip that you think you'd be really interested in going on, sign up for our Patreon, check it out. You can always cancel it if you don't like it, but if you've been kind of putting that off and you want to go on a trip, this is the week to sign up. Again, it'll be offered to Patreon for 48 hours and then if they're still spots available, we're going to offer it to the rest of the audience. We're so excited. We're so stoked.

I'm really hoping that we have some incredible polar bear action. I've never seen polar bears in this fallboard. I've never been to fallboard.

Neither of the boys is our first time in Norway. I just can't really overemphasize how excited we are for this trip and to finally do a trip with Danielle and Cassie as such a dream. So we can't wait. Check it out. Get on Patreon if you want it and we'll see you soon. [Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to Tooth and Claude Podcast. We're back to just scrapping by this one.

I'm recording in a bathroom. I stole Wes's cord, so he had to go back to our old school setup and Mike. I don't even know what room you're in, but it's a good room. So we're great. He's in a closet. Looks like you're in a closet at least. It's in one of those beaver rooms where they have like a mud room. They knock all the mud off their tails or whatever before they go in the house. Yeah. Japanese people have those too.

Japanese people and beavers. Yeah. Mike, I think humans call those mud rooms.

“Yeah, I don't think you have to call it a beaver room. I think we have that as well.”

The term slipped my brain. Forgive me. I've been sick for about a week because of the hot dog incident. We won't expound. Listen to our subscriber. We need to respond. What do you mean? I'm an expound. We for a while now have been talking about how fast Mike thinks he can eat a hot dog and he said anything from like 15 seconds to 30 seconds. So it didn't come out like you. I was shamed for saying 45 seconds for Mike was with you though Jeff.

I didn't think Mike could do it that fast. And then it doesn't end Tokyo. I bought a hot dog and it seemed like it met the criteria of just like a small. I'm not saying there's a lot of bread on that dog. There was maybe a slightly more bread than normal, but it seemed close enough to give it a shot and Mike did it in 41 seconds. But it completely wrecked his entire body somehow. So he hasn't been hungry in like a week now. And he's probably really grumpy too. I'm guessing.

Because I know. Well, yes, always. I'm like the whole kid in that way. I'm always crumpy.

But the thing about the hot dog contest, and I'm still I considered this bet kind of an old for the moment. Because I didn't have water to dunk the bun in. That's so essential.

“I think I could really get under 30 seconds pretty easy with the water dunk.”

I feel like I recall a time though, where you said that you could do it in like 20 seconds without water. No problem. Like there was a high level of color. That's going to be really, really hard to ever prove anybody said anything. But I know how we argue. And it's just never going to end. I know Gurb's on our trip said that he could do it in like 10 seconds. Yeah. And I do not believe that anymore. That's not going in a little bit. Yeah, it's way too quick.

He said, though, though, though. So quickly. We should just quickly say we're back from a trip. We had an amazing time quickly just wanted to mention. We're back. Well, you guys aren't back. Sorry, but we're back from a toothy trip. And I just wanted to mention everyone that went, we had Ben Cassie, Shawnee, Emily, Ian, the three of us obviously. Gurb's, Alex, Allison, Antoine, Christian, Danielle, Eric and Lucinda.

Truly just an amazing group.

We had an amazing time. Got to be on a dive boat for half of it in the jungle for the other half.

“Just a really great group. And some cool animals. So loved it.”

It was fun handling then misnakes. That one secret, the secret. I was like, I don't know if I should be holding this thing, but I'm going to. And is like jumping up is like, as Tom Cruise jumping off that motorcycle jump just doing it. I felt the exact same.

It was funny because we had like swirling sharks all around the boat at night. And Ian just jumps into the middle of the sharks. The top 10 most venomous snake swims over hands it to me. And I'm just totally trusting that it's not going to bite me. And then we all of us just kind of took turns seeing it and holding it on the deck, which was pretty cool.

Mike, I do understand now your kind of depression when you got home from Japan last year. It just, it feels like you're living in a strip mall when you get back to the US after being in Japan. It's kind of rough. So I give him this plane Pichinko. Pichinko, I miss all the good food mostly.

A warm toilet seat every time you sit down.

Oh, one of my favorite little touches here is they always put their toilets in like a little closet room.

Oh, that's you know.

“But then like the bathroom, you don't have toilet stuff going on.”

Yeah. It doesn't mean a lot of sandals. Yeah. It doesn't mean to keep your toothbrush and the toilet in the same room. Personally.

I think it's my favorite. Yeah. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it doesn't. Like poop.

Parts. We got to really have that argument on this trip too, which we'll bring up some other time. Let's get into this episode. Let's do it.

It's one that I'm actually, I'm pretty excited for even though it's a repeat animal.

It's one that we've done a few times this animal. But um, they're in a group of animals. You know, I'm being coy again, but people have read the title of the episode by now. It's a shark. And we just got done diving every time I go diving.

I just gained more and more appreciation for how beautiful sharks are, how wonderful they are to see underwater, how important they are to their ecosystems, and how maligned they are in the public perception. And you know, that whole shark-infested water thing still pops up sometimes and it just makes me think that's their home. That's the ocean. It's just waters.

You know, it's human-infested waters is what it is.

“And this story for me just kind of is a classic shark attack and it's one that I think illustrates some really interesting things about their behavior.”

So I'm excited to do it. I'm excited for you to do it. So Chuck Anderson was born to a father that was a school principal and a high school football coach. And then his mom was also a school teacher. So really wasn't much of a surprise when he also decided to become a teacher and a coach in 1975.

He moved a Robert Stale, Alabama in 1975 and quickly started making it roll-todd and quickly started making a difference in young people's lives. Both on the football field and in the classroom. I can't really overemphasize how it just like kind of good of a dude Chuck seemed to be in his interviews. He just seems like the kind of guy every young kid needs as like a mentor during this time of their lives. Probably he had a good coach though.

I think he was a good coach, but I'm not sure. Everyone called him. I think in Alabama if you're putting any importance into this school work, you're not the best. You can't be a good coach too. He did talk a lot more about coaching than he did school.

So I'll do think that was his mom focus. Yeah. Would you rather have this guy or Mr. Miyagi as your childhood mentor? Definitely this guy. Miyagi just seemed like he was having Danielson do chores for him.

Or Coach Boon. Who's Coach Boon? Frighten at lights. Remember the Titans? Coach Boon.

Miyagi is a little too chaotic. I don't think Miyagi gave him a gun along. He did. As a sick car. That's true.

He's generous. Yeah, maybe it's Miyagi. I don't know. So Chuck has a wife Betsy and two kids. They really love the small town community of Robert Stale.

And everyone not only knew Chuck, they called him Coach. They knew where he lived, and that he kept his keys in his truck. And that they could use it if they ever needed it. They just needed to leave a note. He's like Miyagi.

I mean, this is like a real kind of Norman Rockwell kind of town. Yeah. I'm just going to start calling him Miyagi for the rest of the story. In the year 2000, Chuck's kids were starting to grow up. His son Sam was 13.

His daughter Laura was 15. But while his kids were growing up, Chuck was growing out. I thought you're hissing, growing down. He was a Benjamin button.

People were in love with the high school coaches, especially the football coach.

So he would get free food everywhere, especially the local buffet. Do you guys know much about Southern food? Oh, I know quite a bit enlighten us.

“How what's the calorie kind of count in most Southern food?”

In a word, dense. That is very dense. It's very homie and comforting. I'd say calories don't exist down to that. No one's count calories down in Alabama.

Yeah. I remember I spent a little bit of time in Mobile, which isn't far from here. And I just remember thinking like everything I've eaten in the last 24 hours is possibly like the most calorie dense food I've ever had in my life. Like the homiest, most comfort food ever.

And it was delicious. But it was crazy heavy food. I remember going to a waffle house. Where did we go to waffle house? That was in West Virginia.

West Virginia.

And it's like, if you didn't just get the normal waffles,

it was a lot of sugar and butter on that. Yeah. Yep. Like every other option was just like cinnamon roll on your waffle. Yeah.

And that's diet food for Robert Stale, Alabama. Chuck's skin kind of beefy is what I'm trying to say here. He'd gone with his daughter and she was getting a physical. And after she stepped off the scale to record her body weight, he stepped on just to see what he was weighing.

And the scale tip to 279. And his daughter told him that he was getting a little fat.

“So one thing you have to know about Chuck.”

And this is important to the story is that he is very competitive. But kind of person where competition just really fuels him. So when his daughter told him he was fat, he immediately told her that he could still outrunner and they drove to the high school track.

He said he hit the half mile mark. And he was on all fours vomiting because he was so out of shape. And she beat him. Oh, they ran a mile. Yeah, he hit the half mile.

And started throwing up. So I think they were just like, going for it. Yeah. And that, you know, I want to like take a step back and say, I don't think that that necessarily means he was fat

that he weighed that much, but for him it did. This was like outside of his typical weight range. So he needed to make some changes. And for nine straight months, he ran every single day and an effort to get in shape. And he actually got into competitive running

because this guy loves competition. And he started running five k's and ten k's, half marathon's. But what really energized him were triathlons. Do you guys know what a triathlon is? Yeah.

What is it, Jeff? It's water land in land. Yes, what are the two lands? Swimming cycling and running. It's a combo of swimming cycling and running.

And usually swim like couple miles. And then bike dozens of miles and then run a few, you know, I don't know how many miles. But you do bring up an interesting point. And it's certainly their Jeff.

The third should be air, right?

Like a squirrel suit. Just like the last leg is just bombing down a mountain in a flight suit thing or a hang lighter. Yeah. Segway.

We're going fifth element rules. There it also be fire and love in there too.

“So you have to do both of those as well.”

Is there a way to like work out in the air? That's a good point. Lots of summer snacks. Just like bicycle kicks. Well, you said this is about a shark, right?

Yeah, we're getting there. So do you understand what's yours? You got that joke lined up. What joke? I think if I compete against a shark in the triathlon,

I could win running and it would win swimming. So it all comes down to cycling. You didn't have that joke. Locked and loaded. I did.

I shoot. I did. That really screws up. I spoiled it. Yeah.

Well, the thing that shocked like so much about triathlons was that they pushed him really physically and forced him to get in better shape. But they also had this competitive aspect to him. Plus he had found and made friends

within the triathlon community. And they helped him train and reach his goals. And for someone who really only gets into working out if I have someone else there with me that's pushing me. I totally understand that.

I need that kind of buddy or motivation from someone else to really keep my goals. So I get how this really feel Chuck and it's the thing that he really grasped onto. Yeah, it's impressive.

That's like, I mean, if people are comfortable with where they're at physically, then like, bile means, I guess just do whatever makes you feel best. But like, I really respect people that see a change that needs to be made and go whole hog.

Yeah. You love going whole hog. The whole hog. You ate that whole hog. Takes about 40 seconds.

Yeah.

With water, 20. Uh. My timer said 40 five. All right.

So this is exactly what Chuck was doing on the morning

of June 9th, 2000. He had scheduled triathlon training with two friends. And when his alarm went off that morning at 5.15 a.m. He immediately regretted making those plans. It was Friday morning.

School had just let out for the summer. He hit the snooze button and just thought, you know, I might just sleep in this morning. But when the alarm went off 10 minutes later, the thoughts of disappointing his friends crept into his mind.

He got up and started getting ready. Should have hit that snooze button again, Chuck.

“You should have trusted that instinct on this one.”

The plan was for them to meet at golf shores, which is a short drive from Robert Stale. It's kind of the premier beach in Alabama. If you look at coastal Alabama, it kind of Alabama just gets cut out by a lot of the floor

to Panhandle. And there's just a little tiny square that has coast.

And golf shores in Dolphin Island,

where Christian who's on our trip is from. Or is living. Oh, yeah. Are kind of like the only beach front in Alabama. There's really not much.

So that's what they're going there. He does. Yeah. And I've been to golf shores. And it was really nice.

It was a nice beach. So they're going to do a 1 1/2 mile swim in the Gulf of Mexico and a 35 mile bike ride. One of these friends was Karen Forfer, who was a four-time Hawaiian Ironman champion

and a five-time world champion. She's 64. She's a really good swimmer, obviously. And she was a perfect training partner for Chuck because he was really competitive.

And that competitive nature didn't want him to let himself lose to a 64-year-old woman. You know?

“I think he's a bit of a good old boy too.”

So like a thought of losing to a woman was down in this male yo of his. But she's a better swimmer than him. So spoiler alert. She beats him.

In a fun way. Yeah. They were training. Oh, yeah. He totally respects her.

And like knows that she's a better swimmer than him. But it still makes him like want to try and beater. It's like when the extra motivation maybe she leads into it too. Like you just lost to a girl.

She's she might. But I don't I don't feel any. Samlock. Samlock too. Yeah, maybe she's a good old girl.

Yeah. I'm not doing devil's advocate. I'm just saying it. I'm just making it sound like friendly competition. It was.

Yeah. All right. There are other friend Richard Watley that day decided that he would swim out a little deeper. He wanted to be in calmer water.

But Karen and Chuck just went and passed the breakers to start their swim. So they're about a hundred yards from the beach. The plan was to swim a mile and a half from east to west. And it's still early morning so they had the water pretty much all of themselves. Or so they thought they were actually sharing the water that morning

with the species of shark that many shark experts are around the world considered to be the most dangerous shark species. And that shark is the bull shark. I bring packets of element on every tooth and clot trip. We were just in commoto and while I was scuba diving,

when I scuba dive, I like to drink in a lot of ocean water just so I can try to eventually become more like a fish. So you'd think with all that saw water, I'd be good. But no way. Elements might go to for hydration and jokes aside after scuba diving even. I'd feel dehydrated.

I drink an element and it's just insane the difference that I felt afterwards. I need this stuff everywhere I go. So glad that they're our sponsor. Elements is zero sugar electrolyte drink mix and sparkling electrolyte drink. Born from the growing body of research,

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All right, we've talked a lot about sharks on the podcast. And the species the represent rate is threats to humans. And we've gone over the big three a lot.

“Do either of you remember the species that make up the big three”

when it comes to bites on humans? Great. Why? Number one. Tiger shark. Number two.

Bull shark. Number three. Good job. And in order. You get bonus points for that.

Big two. It's different than my- I got to go as I must. The big three make up about 85% of all known shark bites on humans. And there's some reasons for that.

First of all, I think this is probably the number one reason.

So again, there's bigger sharks than them, but they're mostly eating little things, like plankton and crill and small fish. These are macro predators. So they're eating fish and mammals and bigger stuff.

They're big enough that we don't automatically size out of the prey that they're typically looking for. So like, we're diving and we see a white tipper. If shark or something, we just know that it's probably not going to come up and try and decide if we're food because we're just too big for it

to really bring down anyway. So we're not really in their category. But these species. Especially this guy. Right?

What's his name again? Chuck. Chuck. He's a big shark. Yeah.

Chuck. Yeah. Chuck's size is not of a lot of sharks. So that's number one. And second, they have teeth that are designed to cut

and shear rather than hold. So if you look at, for example, like a sand tiger shark, you see those really thin, conical teeth. They're more for grabbing a fish and just kind of holding it and then swallowing it in one bite.

Tiger sharks, bull sharks, great whites have serrated triangular teeth. They're used for sheering. So when they bite, they shake their head back and forth. It shears off big chunks of flesh.

“And that's why they're more dangerous to humans than these sharks”

that just kind of bite and hold.

Third, and this is probably the other one that's most important,

is they are found in shallow coastal waters. And people also like to recreate in shallow coastal waters. So these are the sharks we tend to just run into the most, too. So even though both sharks are third on the list, there's a decent chance they're responsible for a lot of bites

that are just assigned to uncategorized Requiem shark. And that is because the person was bit by a large gray shark that they were not able to adequately identify the species, whereas white sharks and tiger sharks have features that often make them more identifiable.

So usually when someone's bit by a white shark, they're also in waters where you don't really have tiger sharks or bull sharks. And they just kind of know it was a white shark. And the same often goes for tiger sharks because of the banding patterns and their square face.

They're just more identifiable than bull sharks. It kind of just looked like a classic shark. Yeah, that makes sense. All right, we've talked about them a fair amount on the podcast, but we're going to do some quick refresher facts.

“And then we're going to spend a few minutes on something that I think is very interesting”

that we've kind of just glazed over in the past. Their large Requiem sharks, meaning they're in the same group of sharks, like gray reef sharks, black tip reef sharks, white tip reef sharks, and oceanic white tips.

Requiem sharks are almost always gray on top, white on the bottom.

They're just like again, your classic looking sharks. They're quite large and stalky with females being a bit larger than males, getting the sizes over 10 feet or three meters long. They have triangular serrated teeth that kind of just look like smaller, great white teeth, and they're extremely sharp and effective at cutting through flesh.

They often bump before biting. It's a classic bull shark thing where the person will get a big bump by the shark before then comes in and bites. They're found throughout the world in tropical and subtropical waters, and they get their name from their stocky build and their aggressive nature.

But one of the things that bull sharks are most well known for is they're able to live in bull salt water and freshwater environments. We've talked about bull sharks and freshwater, and have they've been found hundreds or even thousands of miles up river, but we haven't gone into a lot of detail on how that's possible.

So I want to cover it a bit today. So when we think about skin as humans, our skin is kind of more of like a barrier. Nothing really gets through it unless we really rub it in and kind of let it through. But fish and amphibians have a much more permeable skin.

Their skin allows a lot more stuff in and out. So with fish, osmosis is constantly kind of happening with them. And marine biologists out there are going to get kind of mad at me that I'm going to be oversimplifying a lot of this stuff, but I'm going to dump it down a little bit because I need it.

“And I think our audience needs it because this is complicated,”

physiological stuff.

In osmosis, water is always trying to move from less salty fluids to more salty fluids.

So if you were to put like two things of water, next to each other, one of them is really salty. One of them is less salty. And then you put a permeable membrane in between those two things. The water would move from the less salty into the more salty until it's all the same. And that's osmosis.

The water just kind of moving to create a balanced saltiness between those two bits of water. So all osmosis is determined by the salinity. Like that's always the rule for osmosis. The definition of osmosis is like the movement of water across a permeable or semi permeable membrane to create like a balanced saltier concentration, something like that.

But basically you are going from more salty or you're going from less salty water to more salty water to try and create a balance. Okay. That's good enough.

I never watched the movie about that.

About osmosis osmosis Jones. Chris Rock's finest. Watch the sea would understand. Yeah. His vanity project.

“So I want you guys to focus on that fact, though, that water wants to move from a less salty environment”

to a more salty environment. That's the direction water is trying to move in osmosis. So in salt water, the water is often saltier than the body fluids of the fish. So therefore water is prone to move out of the fish because it's trying to get to the saltier area and into the surrounding water.

So this means that salt water fish have organs and processes that are focused on retaining water and removing salt. Because their water is trying to move out of them into the surrounding atmosphere, into the water. So their bodies are really focused on retaining water and removing the extra salt. Now with the opposite is true with freshwater fish.

Because body fluids are saltier than freshwater, water is constantly trying to move into freshwater fish. So they are focused on removing water and retaining salt. So freshwater fish are constantly peeing because they're trying to get rid of water. And they have organs that are trying to keep as much salt as possible in their bodies. Does all making sense so far?

Yeah. Lots of pee. Something. So when you put a salt water fish into a freshwater environment, water is going to be flowing into that fish due to osmosis and its body.

But its body is used to conserving water. So because of that, all this water is flowing into them because of osmosis. But then their organs are also keeping water.

And so basically they're all of their cells and their organs and everything are overloaded with water.

And they essentially drown to death and they have no salt content in their bodies and they die.

“So that's what happens when you put a freshwater fish.”

Sorry, a salt water fish into a freshwater environment. If you put a freshwater fish into a salt water environment, its body is built to expel water. And its water is also trying to escape into the saltier water around it. So it essentially dehydrates while it's still living while it's suspended in water, which is kind of crazy.

So that's what happens to fish when you put them in the opposite environment. So basically the danger for a bull shark entering freshwater would be that its body, which is used to getting rid of salts and retaining that water, would continue doing that and it would become flooded with too much water. But bull sharks are one of the only types of fish in the world that are able to simply reverse what their body is doing as they switch water types.

And they have four organs to help them with that process. The first is their rectal gland. Their rectal gland is responsible for excreting salt. So when they go into freshwater, it simply stops excreting very much salt at all. Their kidneys, when in their in freshwater, their kidneys produce large amounts of highly diluted urine,

which allows them to constantly urinate and remove excess water and retain salt. So their kidneys essentially start functioning like a freshwater fish as kidneys would function. Their liver, their liver produces high amounts of urea that lead to a higher concentration of salt in their blood. And then their gills. And it's thought that they can use their gills to uptake sodium and chloride from the water.

So basically the thing that sets bull sharks apart from pretty much every other fish on the planet is that their bodies can actively change the way that they remove and uptake salt. And fish like salmon can change from freshwater to salt water. Actually undergo these really big physiological changes that pretty much kill them. So like when a salmon changes and goes from the salt water to the freshwater to run upstream to lay its eggs,

they're slowly being killed by the freshwater. And they had these physiological changes that allow them to survive for a bit. But it's not like a bull shark where they can like thrive in the freshwater.

“I think if I ever have kids it'll be like how a salmon does it.”

You're just going to have them and die. Yeah, just like sure. You know what, it's up to you. It's up to you to make it in this world. I'm out of here.

They don't even. And male salmon don't even know they're having kids. They're just jizzing on a bunch of rocks. So you can just do that and die if you want. You don't like your to that.

You know, I have to let your dreams stay dreams so you can go do that right now. I, it's really crazy with like large organs in the body.

I just never really think of being plastic or flexible enough to change

But the fact that they can just adapt so drastically is crazy to me. That's so interesting.

“And part of it too with bull sharks is they have really salty blood to begin with.”

Like, they have a really high concentration of urea in their blood to begin with. But that's kind of a hindrance when they're in salt water.

So it's kind of, it's pretty amazing.

I agree that they have that kind of plasticity because you don't really see that much in the natural world. Animals are usually just built for one kind of environment. And these are very hostile environments to each other. Like if you put a fresh water fish in salt water, it dies and vice versa. So it's pretty crazy that they can do it.

It kind of sounds like Chuck could use this for a half times speed. He could, like, you know, you know what's really built different a bull shark. Yeah. He probably could. He maybe has since his bite.

But we're going to get into the most built different animal. Right, arousing speed. I think it's great.

Clear eyes kind of thing.

I didn't do the whole speech. Yeah, I'm worth it. He's, yes. He's been born here. Well, none of this really applies to our story because it does just happen in salt water.

But I think it's really cool. And it's something we hadn't really gone into about bull sharks yet. Two thin claws brought to you by hollow socks. For me, I really care about my socks because especially when I travel. You only have so many pairs of socks you can take with you.

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Hollow like something is hollow when it has nothing inside of it. Do you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them, and you can support our show by telling them that we sent you. So Chuck and Karen are out swimming about 100 yards from the shore. Chuck is swimming hard to keep up with Karen. And they're swimming past an area that included an old pier and some large wood supports in the water.

And Jeff, when we were in Maui, we dove, or we snorkeled a bit around an old pier with big wooden supports.

“And what would you say about like the marine life around these kind of structures?”

Yeah, that was one of my favorite, just like let's go dive at this random spot. Dubba dives have, is really good. A lot of animals like the old pears, a lot of sea turtles. Didn't you see a shark? I did.

Or they told us that there'd be sharks in there. I saw a white tip there, I think.

But yeah, basically these pears, these big pillars in the water act as essentially artificial reefs.

So they, you know, smaller fish and algae and whatnot grow on them, which attracts small fish, which attracts slightly larger fish, which attracts larger fish, and then brings in sharks and other predators. So it can attract a lot of life. So as they're swimming by this old pier, there's a very good chance that the shark had been hanging out nearby. And as they're going by, Chuck takes a look at his Iron Man watch.

It says 6.38 in the morning. He puts his head back in the water. He takes a few more strokes. When suddenly something slams him at full force and spins him through the water. He said it felt like he had been pillars.

Could have been one of the pillars.

But I'm pretty sure it was a bull shark.

He said though, it felt like he had been hit by a bulldozer. So it could have been a bulldozer too. Yeah, I'm a bit right. Yeah. Oh my god.

Good job. Awesome job. Thank you. You were actually just like it. I don't even know.

Why am I even on this? I should just leave. Jeff has got his cover. I don't want to. He's so much faster on the draw.

He was faster on that one. He got me quicker. God. Those are my lines. Those are my lines.

Those are my lines.

“If you want to lie to you guys, I'm faster.”

Fine. Multiple times during the interviews. He gave a really good descriptive analogies for the feeling of the shark slamming into him. So I'm actually going to have Bill cut them together, because I think it'll be a good little segment. It was just stunning.

Like a bulldozer running into you. It was like just being hit by a baseball bat. It felt like a landbacker getting run over by a bullback. He just was a shark. The bull shark.

He immediately knows a shark. And before he could really comprehend what was happening, the shark was rolling them over on his back and almost up and out of the water. Then the shark disappeared. Chuck started screaming and treading water. He yelled at Karen to get out of the water and swim for the beach.

And when she heard him, she did exactly that. And just a quick reminder here, people, if you were with someone in the water and they do get bit by a shark, the best thing you can do is try and help them. There's a good chance that your presence will be enough to scare off that shark. A very good chance.

There is a chance you'll get bit too. So you do need to accept that. It requires a lot of bravery to swim at someone that's being bitten by a shark. Sure. But it most likely will stop that attack.

You've said that a few times, but this is the first time I've ever wondered this.

So like, what about if a shark attacked like a sea lion? Will it be smart for other sea lions to swim up? It is. Yeah. And they can often stop the attack from happening.

Like a group of sea lions or seals is often enough to discourage even white sharks from swimming. I saw a sea lion getting attacked and swim up. Probably. Honestly, it probably stopped it. But again, they're like, I wouldn't do that because there is a chance to shark will bite you.

And I don't blame Karen for swimming away because she probably would do it for a person. I would. I would. I think. I'd like to show this way your priority side.

I view animals that same. Yeah, I don't. But that's we've talked about this before on the podcast. I love animals more than anything.

“But I think people's lives are generally more important.”

All right. So Chuck was panicked. He's looking over the surface of the water with his goggles still on. And then he plunges his head underwater to see if he could see anything. And he did see something.

What he saw was the shark racing up from the bottom toward him and just a few feet away. Yeah. The shark slammed into him again so hard that he could barely think or even breathe. And he instinctively threw his hands out in front of him to try and push the shark away. He felt a strong tug on his right hand.

And then when he started trying to swim backward away from the shark, he noticed red spreading out from his body in a pool. He raised his right hand and stared at it in shock. The shark had completely severed all of his fingers in a single bite. And he could see the milky gray of his knuckles sticking out of the flesh. The only his thumb remained on his mangled hand just his thumb.

And he continued to stare and shock at it as he wiggled his thumb to make sure it was still there. He felt no pain whatsoever. So the whole thing felt very dreamlike to him. And that's why he was wiggling his thumb. With all the blood in the water, he started worrying that he might be attracting more sharks.

So he held his mangled hand out of the water, did his best to backpattle toward the beach. He's making slow progress with only one hand. And it felt as though he had struggled forever when he stuck his head under the water one more time. At the exact moment that the shark made another charge and rammed into his thighs. Now one thing I just want to talk about really quick here.

Hearing his story, this shark keeps just slamming into him and not necessarily biting. And I do think there's a fairly good chance that we're dealing with a territorial attack here. That this bull shark was just pissed at him that he was upset with the intrusion. And that it's just ramming him and trying to get him out of there. I don't think this is an inquisitive shark that's biting to figure out what he is.

“I think this is either a shark that's just pissed off or one that is in full predator mode.”

It's one of the two. But the fact that it's not biting him and it's continually ramming him without biting,

I do think really when he gets bit, it's always because he's pushing it.

And that does happen with bull sharks.

Maybe it just doesn't want to leave the job undone, get that thumb, you know. We talk about how opposable thumbs are like something that sets us apart from a lot of animals.

“What good is an opposable thumb without your other fingers?”

That's pretty deep. Think about that. You can give someone a big ole thumb. Or how dangerous is a shark with five fingers? Yeah, it's just one opposable thumb.

Like a Frankenstein thing or buffalo bill.

Maybe it's making a whole human jacket down there. I will say to tuck in its penis. I hope paint the picture a little. I'm glad you snuck in that last detail. Talking to Christian, talking to Christian about the ocean out there.

It isn't like the best clarity either. So it'd be kind of scary just to like not be able to see it that way. I took some time to look at a bunch of satellite images because I thought of that too, Jeff.

And I think where he was, a hundred yards out past the breakers, he probably had a bit of visibility.

“Okay, and I've been to Gulfshores and I do remember that if you swam out of bed, it started to get like a little bit clearer.”

But it's not by any means like clear good visibility water. It's still as murky. So yeah, yeah, and that's part of probably what led to this encounter, almost certainly. And we're going to talk again briefly at the end of this about the factors surrounding bullshark bites specifically. But that's a really good observation.

So after the sharks slammed into him again, you're welcome. The sharks again swam off and left Chuck screaming for help and ducking his head under water to check for the shark. The shark meanwhile had mounted another charge and this time slammed into Chuck's stomach knocking the air out of him. He pushed the shark away with his hands. Yep, cheap shot. Push the shark away with his hands.

“It swam off, but when Chuck turned around to look for it, he saw the dorsal fin of the shark slicing through the water and heading straight toward him.”

He tried to push off the shark, but in one quick movement, it bit into his right forearm and dragged him down below the surface of the water. For some reason, the shark pulled him all the way down to the seafloor and his shoulders slammed into the sand. He was already short on breath just from fighting the shark, so like, you know, if you've ever been like rough housing in a pool and then someone holds your head underwater. In like three seconds, you feel like you're about to drown because you just don't have any air in your lungs.

And that's kind of how Chuck was, like immediately he felt like he was drowning. He couldn't see much because his goggles had gotten pulled off, and as the shark held him on the seafloor, he surrounded by just eerie silence. And he feels death coming, and he starts seeing images of his family and his kids flashing through his mind. He makes a promise to God that if he gets one more breath, he'll like praise God every single day. And as he thinks about that, he actually feels himself being lifted up toward the surface once again.

The shark drags him upward and he breaks the surface of the water and takes a huge gasp over there. So he owes him. He owes God every day. Yeah. Chuck felt like he had been saved, but then he realized his right arm was still in the shark's mouth. He started fighting the shark and just focusing on staying on the surface because he wasn't sure he would survive another trip to the bottom. But as he fought, the shark started swimming with him until once again. This time it stayed on the surface, and it seemed to be dragging him out into deeper water and further from the beach.

Oh, he might be able to set like a personal record, but the shark's help. He's like swim faster than Karen. The shark assisted record. It's like, you know, when like long jumps have like the wind assisted little asterisk next to it. It's like my eating a hot dog, but he uses a shark to help me do it in like two seconds. Oh, my god, probably can't eat a hot dog hell of fast enough. Well, they do it for a freaking week afterward.

That bread is going to get stuck in their little throats. A crazy thing about this beach, though, is there are big sand bars way out in the water. So Chuck is feeling just intense pain and pressure in his right arm as the shark continues to drag him about 75 yards. But then miraculously, his feet hit sand and he realized the shark had dragged him up onto his sandbar and had effectively beached itself on top of him. So he's kind of pinlap him down in the sand and the body of the shark and he could feel the entire weight of this probably 300 pound shark pushing down onto him.

He does his best to squirm out from under the shark and he's punching out in the gills with his left arm and doing whatever he could to get away.

And I know that what he meant by this was like this was a thoughtless murderous kind of killer.

But I actually love it when people say this about animals because what it actually means is that there isn't any emotion in this. This is an animal that is just eating or you know trying to get rid of a threat. You know there's no hate in it. There's no murderous intent. It's either just trying to feed itself or get rid of you and that to me is a beautiful thing. It's not a bad thing. What you expect it's eyes to like show that it's feel sorry for you.

Right. Or that it's like super pissed at you. Yeah. Like that's almost worse if it's mad at you.

“I think the quint thing you know where he says like a doll's eyes, a dark black doll's eyes. It's kind of like yeah this is an animal.”

It's its natural history. It's doing animal stuff. You're in its environment and it's reacting and I think that's that's great.

You know it's unique about this story. It might be like the best example I've ever heard of of like a fair fight of a human versus shark. Yeah, he's doing a good job. It's like half on the water and then half on land. So it's like you get a chance to beat me on your territory. But then like let's go to my turf and see what happens. Yeah, maybe when the shark was drowning him, it was like you know it. This isn't fair.

This isn't you picked up to the surface. It just loves competition. Yeah. Respect. So Chuck actually gets to his knees in the sand. He continues to hit the shark with his left arm because it still has his right arm and it's mouth.

He pulls back with his right arm to try and free it.

“And as he does this, the shark actually like thrashes and pulls to the left and the teeth strip down his right arm.”

Blood fills the water. Once again, Chuck feels a slight tug and then he falls backwards and he's free. He immediately gets up and he starts running down the sand bar toward the beach screaming, you're not taking me away from my kids. You damn shark. You're not taking me away from my kids. See, that's a big mistake. That's where he finds toxic advantage to beat the shark in the fight.

Like elbow drop right there. Yeah. The shark is horrible. Yeah. Good punch.

The shark knocked the wind out of that thing. See how it likes. Well, the shark got away. So this is a draw. I think. Now, actually, I give this one to the shark and you're about to see why. As he runs down the sand bar and toward the beach,

he purposely isn't looking at his right arm, but he could feel the blood running down his arm and onto his chest. He then sees Karen come running toward him crying with the shock looked on her face. And as she approaches Chuck, she says, "Oh my gosh, you don't have an arm." The shark had completely removed Chuck's arm from the elbow down. They walked up the beach. They could already hear the sirens of the approaching ambulance and Chuck could hear and see people vomiting as they saw the remains of his tattered arm.

Which guys, he got a hold it in. He can't fall in front of the sky. As he gets loaded into the ambulance, Chuck was told they couldn't scramble a helicopter in time. They would take him to the nearest hospital, which was an account called Foley. And he immediately thought about how this town was like full of his arrivals because they'd beaten Foley in football and how people were not going to be happy to see him there. So he's joking with the paramedics saying, "Not Foley, don't take me to Foley."

What a coach. I take an attack all the way. He's a great football coach. On the ambulance ride, they also discovered that he had been bitten in the stomach. He was losing a lot of blood. But he refuses any medicine that would make him unconscious because he really wanted to see his kids in case he did die. And he had not said I love you to them that morning and he usually did.

And so he really just wanted to see them and tell them I love you one last time. He does see his family at the hospital. He tells them he loves them. And then he immediately asked the nurse for morphine.

“And then he doesn't really remember the next five or six days.”

But the doctors did do multiple surgeries. They managed to save his elbow, which apparently makes a huge difference if you lose your arm to have your elbow, because it's really good for like propping and pushing yourself up and what nons important if you can keep your elbow. So that was a big win for Chuck. And pretty much his whole town came to see him at some point. A couple people joked that they would probably be able to beat him in a triathlon now, because he wouldn't be able to swim very well. And you know that lit a bit of a fire under old Chuck made him feel really competitive.

And he made up his mind that he was going to keep training. And then following year he competed in a triathlon.

He considered getting out of the water because it was really his first time in salt water.

But then those competitive juices kicked in. And when the countdown got down to two, he yelled shark. And everyone got really scared. And when it hit one, he had a bit of a head start on everyone because they were all looking around for a shark. And he actually ended up winning first in his division for that race. What? Just a great dude. One of the things I liked most about Chuck though was the attitude he took toward sharks and shark attacks following his encounter.

He actually went to Washington, D.C. to lobby for increased protections for sharks. When he learned they're being killed at a massive scale for thinning and as by catch. He's also reached out to a lot of other shark by victims as recently as this last year to provide support and compassion to them as they go through the most traumatic experience of their lives. Basically just a really good person that made the most out of a really terrible day that changed his life forever. Amazing.

“So was the hand that got or the arm that got bit off the same one as the fingers?”

So there's other hand still intact. Totally normal from what I know. Oh, yes, that's good. Yep. So really quickly, I learned a bit about bull sharks on this episode.

And I just wanted to remind our listeners conditions to kind of avoid. If you are in a place where there are bull sharks.

First of all, time a day is really important.

Sharks like to be out hunting early morning or in the late evening. A big part of that is because your water visibility gets a lot less and it's easier for them to sneak up on things including fish. So they really like to be hunting and decreased water visibility. So another thing to really look out for is like high turbidity or merciness in water. So if you have like a big storm in the ton of water has pushed out through rivers and sewers and whatnot,

what that water does is wash out tons of little scraps for fish to feed on. So big schools of little fish will kind of move in closer to shore when that happens. And the sharks will follow them into. And it also makes it harder for them to identify what they're about to bite. So really that's the perfect storm for shark bites.

“So if you ever have really murky conditions in a place that might have bull sharks, you should be extra cautious and really consider whether or not it's worth getting in the water.”

One other thing I learned is that increases in temperature and water can also lead to a lot of attacks. So Australia has had a big spate of recent bull shark attacks. And they think it's because there was actually a lot of water, like a lot of rain that pushed out a lot of this kind of murky water. And then also the water's been like two degrees Celsius warmer than average. And what that does is increases the metabolism of these sharks.

And they have to hunt and look for food a little bit more aggressively. So they think that might be part of what's led to this little spate of attacks in Australia. All right. Any questions about the story or about bull sharks?

It'd be like, you know how coaches when they're like in hot water always do, like, make big changes to try to keep their job.

Like they'll fire their offensive coordinator or they'll get a new quarterback or they'll just like change it up so they can keep their job a couple more years. Yeah. This is kind of a good like hack like who's like who's a coach like Brian Dave all got fired from the new year. From the New York giants. This year. But like imagine he gets his arm bit off by a shark and then they fire him right after people would be pissed.

Yeah. So that's a good kind of a good. I'm worried about if he's going to die. Go get more by him, animal.

“I think the people of New York would be like he's even more unfit for the job now.”

They're merciless up there. That's true. Or at least the New York media. Yeah, life hack from Jeff though, everyone write that down. Maybe like I think it buys you a year too.

If your partner's mad at you, like just go get molded by a bear and then they kind of have to feel bad for you. You know, that sort of thing. Can't break up with you right after that. Nope. You know what?

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Thanks to MiracleMade for sponsoring this episode. Alright, we're going to go to categories.

First category is your favorite pop culture involving Alabama.

Roll tie. I'm going to go with a classic. I'm going for a scum. Oh, that's a good pick. It's a good pick.

Yeah. And he covers the things you would want from Alabama.

“It's, honestly, probably my first real, like,”

I'm in Alabama experience in my life. Like, the big old trees, what are those types of trees? Yeah. Cypress trees. Cypress trees.

And like, it's like, oh, Alabama has some cool stuff, actually. And then watch them run the football as funny. When he's shrimping? Yes. He's shrimping in Alabama.

Shrimp things up. Yeah. Shrimp. I'm going to go with a movie too.

So I always feel compelled.

I'm not going to say anything about forest gum. Like it. You can like it if you want. It's great. Good for you.

Oh, you guys. I'm going to go with another room in the same boat. Movie. A double feature, actually. A couple of real classic courtroom dramas.

First is to kill a mockingbird. I don't think what you're really going to say. A whole lot about why that's a pretty nifty little story. Thanks, Harper Lee. And then my cousin Vinny also happens in Alabama.

“And you know, I think I might like that movie even more.”

So soon. Show Joe Pashi Gregory Pack. Take your pick, which is the sexier of the two. I kind of thought one of you would pick true romance. Because Patricia Kets characters named Alabama.

And that one. Wow. That's a good pick. Shoot. I picked Conair because he's trying to get home to Alabama and Conair.

That's where his fat worries. I thought it was Georgia for some reason. But that's even though somehow. I somehow remembered that. Because I was like, was his name Alabama?

And then I looked it up and I was like, no, he's just trying to get home to Alabama. So Conair, perfect movie. You know. You know what? Probably my favorite Nick Cage movie besides raising Arizona.

I just shouldn't ever give anyone any gut for liking forest gump when I'd ride as hard as I do for Conair. And the rock. I think forest. I think forest gumps in a like a great movie. I just kind of don't like it anymore.

But I do think I don't think it's a bad movie personally. Sure. I just kind of tired of it. Well, it's like people's favorite movie on the Oscar stuff like that. It's like that's a little much maybe.

Yeah. But it's fun. Yeah. It's like a good. If I was a history teacher, I would show my kids that.

I mean, like this is what happened. If you like our little hungover, something you don't want to teach that day. Just put on the forest gump for the tenth time. That semester. All right.

Next category. Something you do that is needlessly competitive. We're all three competitive boys. You're on tooth and claw. But I'm kind of I'm reaching for something that you do.

That's kind of like why am I being competitive about this. I get really competitive when we're out eating and ordering food.

And I get that.

“And if anybody else orders that same item,”

I have to change my order. It really bothers me to like not be alone at the top of that same thing. That's a good one. And it really is stupid. It's really dumb that I do that because I want it so bad.

But I will change my order. I actually think you're kind of good at it too. You're the number one person who if I'm out to eat with them. It's like, oh man, I'd love to try a bite of what might just ordered.

Because you always find something that's not like front and center on the menu.

Yeah. So yeah. I think you're excelling at that. Just yesterday, me and cousin Brent were fighting quite a bit about Apple Maps versus the car navigation he put in his car.

Yeah. And I was just saying Apple Maps routes are better. And he was like, he was being kind of dumb. Because he kept asking me to navigate and then not following my map. And then getting mad at me for the road we were on.

And it's just like, I don't know. And like every there's like 10 feet of snow out here. And he was saying I let him on a road with snow. And it's literally every road. It's no one.

I was like, I don't know what to do. But I did take a one road that was like impossible. To get up. We had turned around on that one. So it was a it was like a.

I've been saying Apple Maps is the best type of thing though. And it's like, I don't care about that at all. Right. Just yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Mine is one that I do pretty much every road trip I take.

“But I'll kind of like decide on a time that I think I can make it to my destination.”

And then even if I have no time crunch if there's nothing. Like pushing me to be there at that time. I'll push myself and I'll really like take quick stops. And I'll like get super drowsy and just keep driving because I'm like, I got to be there by five. And sometimes I catch myself and I'm like, wait.

I don't have to be there by five. I can take a little map. I can do whatever. But I get this like competitive spirit with this weird benchmark that I just set for myself. And I do that a lot on road trips.

And I'm trying to actually work on that because it's stupid. You know what's kind of like that that you did.

The first time I ever went to San Diego with you.

It was like the first time we had ever used the city scooters and is really fun. But then mine didn't have much battery left. And we had to like make it up this super big hill to go back to the house where you're staying at. And you were like, no, don't stop like, it'll be fun to see if you can make it or not. I was like, I don't want to do that. That doesn't sound fun to me.

I just want to find a new scooter with battery. And then you ended up taking mine because you wanted to see if it would make it so bad. I do that with running out of gas in my car too. Like if I'm on empty, I'll just be like, I got to see if I can make it. And Jesse also gets so mad.

When you like didn't have much money at all, you would be on empty. And 90% of the time I lived on empty. Yeah. It stresses me out. Yeah, it stresses me out.

“And we'd like go by gas gas stations with you on empty and you'd be like, I think I can make it.”

I think I got it. Yeah. All right. Quick category here. Your favorite thing that we saw in Indonesia.

You go ahead and do favorite three, actually. That's what I told you guys earlier. I think my top three were the blue and solar as Viper.

Just a beautiful blue snake that I had always wanted to see since I learned they existed.

Maybe my top reptile target ever. So it's really excited to see that. Komodo dragons because as a kid, they were my favorite animal for a while. Just think they're amazing cool lizards, even though they mostly just lay around. They're so cool.

And we got one that like perfectly looked over the water that was just really neat. Same with the blue Viper actually. And then the manta rays. We had just an amazing manta ray experience because because of some bad weather, we had the park mostly to ourselves. And the mantas just were swimming around us and it was so beautiful and peaceful.

So those are my top three. Those are my three as well. So it's a good cat and boy to go first. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like the big three. I thought they would make yours. I would say C.C. You create over the blue and insolars for me, especially just because I got a real rush out of like handling it. I thought it looked cooler.

I thought the paddle tail was like really interesting. Yeah. I take and I kind of, Alice in spotted it by it's like right there with their side felt. Yeah.

You know it was close to over taking dragons for me was the cuddle fish that we saw at night.

They just had like this crazy vibrant like electric pattern rippling through it. I just could have stared at it that whole dive was so cool.

“I think the promoter dragon sweet just because it's one of those things where you're just not going to see a bigger lizard than that.”

And once you get to the very top of a category like that like seeing a cheetah run, it's like, well, that's the fastest land mammal. Yeah. I don't know. There's just something in my like primitive monkey brain that gets really excited about those kinds of things. So the dragons were awesome carousel man.

I might take out. I'm going to take out commoto dragons off mine too and put in rhinoceros beetles. Oh, yeah. You were stupid. Beetles were cool.

They were cool.

You finally got to live out that fantasy.

All right. But it's not cool. This is kind of a new category. I don't know if we've used it before, but I saw it in our category list.

“What do you think this animal's favorite band would be a bull shark?”

I don't know. I have my answer. Jeff, say answer is going to be. That's like the one I'm most curious. I, so I think all sharks are inherently like beautiful animals and they have a certain grace to them.

So I immediately because it's like a stocky aggressive shark thought of like metal or, you know, something a little harder and more aggressive. But because of the grace element and the beauty element, I went with turn style, which I know they're like a very popular heavy metal band right now. I do really like turn style. So for me, it made a lot of sense. They combine a lot of kind of melodic stuff with really heavy riffs.

So I thought it was perfect band for a bull shark to be into. I would have that exact same line of thinking, but I ended up in a little different spot. So I kind of hear more post-rock when I see them move through the water like God speed or explosions in the sky or something like that. So yeah, any of those big post-rock outfits or what I'm, my brain's telling me, cigarettes, something like that.

Yeah, calmer. I like it. I'm moved because they're kind of just like you're not to, all these people bull sharks, they're favorite sharks. They're going to be in my comments, but they're kind of your average shark, you know. They're, they're a little meat and potato.

So I'm going to go with gasoline, because that song gets played every day.

“Yeah, daddy Yankee, I think a Mexico when I think a bull shark's because I think they're there.”

And just Latin America in general. I think they're in Lake Nicaragua, but I'm not even sure about that. Yeah, okay. Yeah, and they, I'm going to model and play a gasoline every single day. So I'm going to gasoline, I think it's like an uptempo.

So like I could see bite and people with that song playing, you know. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, definitely out of the blue. Okay.

Let's do a couple quick listener questions. This one's from Alaskan Crow, who says can West explain barbery lions to me. I saw a sad and very likely AI video. And now they're all I can think about. So barbery lions were a type of lion, a subspecies of lion that existed in like North Africa,

and maybe Southern Europe for a while. They've long been extrapated, but I do like if that made you sad, I do just want to remind you. They were just their lions, there's subspecies of lion, but they're lions. So like when people got really upset 10 years ago when there was news that the eastern cougar was extinct, it just kind of meant like cougars aren't in the east of the US anymore.

But there's still plenty of cougars out there. It'll be sad when we lose, if we lose Florida Panthers, but they're still cougars. And that's kind of what happened with barbery lions. They're extinct from part of their range, but lions are doing okay throughout the rest of their range. They're not doing great.

I do think okay. I think I saw the video they're talking about, and it does make it seem like barbery lions were like maybe a little bit more or just like a little different than your average lie. That's right. No, it is.

Like when you have an animal that lives in the desert that's a subspecies, they often look really different. Like goby brown bears that live in the goby desert of China and Mongolia. Look very different from brown bears, but they're still a brown bear. It's still the same species, just a subspecies. So it's sad, don't give me wrong, it's sad, but it's not like we lost a whole species.

We lost a million years that could have turned into a new species.

Sure. Yeah, it probably would have. That's true. That's sad. That is sad.

Thanks for keeping it sad. This one's from Dylan.

And then some options, oliphant, Chilab, Ward, the Eagles, the Felby, Bill of Pony, Jeff. Those big ass rhinos that pulled Grond to the gates of Venus, hear it. Jeff. They said Jeff twice. So nice.

What do you guys think? Any ghost from Lord of the Rings? The Grond pullers are interesting because that was total artistic expression in the movies.

Tolkien never really explained or described those at all.

So maybe that is the right choice just to see what those actually look like. You know, if we're counting the hog out, I'm taking small. Yep, a dream. Beach it. Yeah.

If we can't count the hog of these, then I'll pick a Felby's. Because it's kind of just like a small dragon. Yeah. Felby's. Or what?

And the Nazgale ride. Balrog I would count as a beast, a beast of fire. And Felby. I want to see Rosie. Rosie, sure.

She's a beast. More than Yadra. Yadra. Yadra. Galadra.

Galadra. Galadra. What just happened? Galadra. Yadra.

Yeah. Because he's got a thing. All right. But see. Do we have any thoughts on toe shoes or toe socks?

This is from Nathan.

I laughed for ages, but got a pair of toe socks in their amazing.

I might slowly transition to full-time toe shoes. Ooh, toe shoes, even. I don't really like them. I've worn toe socks, and they made my toes feel like trapped and weird and too separated. And I feel like shoes would be even worse for me.

So I'm not a fan. I think they look weird too. Just going to say anything. I'm sorry. You guys got any strong face?

Yes. We just wore socks with just the big toe slit the other day, and I hated it. Yeah. But I got to go full foot. I'll try it out.

I don't know. I don't have it. I do think they look kind of dumb, but it's like,

“I think once you can get over that caring,”

what your shoes look like, it's also kind of cool. So I don't know. Yeah. I think it's probably something I could get used to. I just haven't.

So I'm never comfortable in them.

The toes shoes, I mean, after really sit down and ponder, because I'm thinking very negatively towards them right now. But maybe I shouldn't. I kind of feel like I wouldn't be shocked to see you just show up until shoes one day mic.

It's going to happen. You like fashion risks, you know? I do. This one's from David. It's a great question.

If one person had to drive you safely from Montana to Mexico, would you pick Jason, state them or Vin Diesel? So you're too options. Like they're both terrible options. State them.

He's the transporter. I feel like I'd run out of stuff to talk about with Vin Diesel after 15 minutes. But state them. I feel like I could go for a while. I'd have a hard time not bringing up Paul Walker and saying something bad too.

So that'd be tough. It's Vin Diesel or Jason, state them. Yeah. It's not like Dominic Toretto or the transporter. It's Vin Diesel or Jason, state them.

I think I'll go then. I think Vin drives a car. I don't think Jason, state them does. Maybe you're right. Yeah.

All right. Let's just close it with that.

“We're going to do one last category, which is where do bull sharks rank?”

We're not. We're not doing claws because we've already done claws for them. But where do they rank in your shark list? Are they in your top 10? I think they would be from jet.

Jeff had an interesting line of thinking where you said they're a little bit meat and potatoes. But that's like sharks are sweet. And it's the shark that I think of in my brain when I think of sharks. It's not going to be my absolute favorite, of course. But it'd probably be in like the six or seven range.

I think they're really, really cool. Whoa. New category. That category, what? Six seven.

Six seven category. Are they six seven now? It's the real question. That should have been the category. Yeah.

Are they six seven? What do you guys think? Let's talk about course. Are you kidding me? Yes.

According to my kiss. They're in that range for me, too. I'm just going to piggyback on yours since you just went.

“I think what hasn't beat is whale sharks.”

Great whites. Threshold sharks. Oceanic white tips. Probably Caribbean reef sharks. Maybe.

But then we're maybe getting into bull shark range. Because they were the first sharks I ever freed of with. And it was magical. Like just having a bunch of bull sharks swimming around me out in the open ocean. It was really cool.

And in really clear water, they're not generally aggressive at all. So it was really just a cool experience for me. And I thought they were beautiful. So yeah, they're in my top ten. Charks.

I think I'm going to put them at like 12.

Just outside. That's the ones with like the saw nose more. Cool. Yeah. Thresholds.

Goblin. Thresholds above them. Yeah. Maco. Maco.

Maco. And blue sharks too are really pretty. This is hard. Oceanic white. This.

I had them in front of them too. What's hard for me is picking between tiger sharks and bull sharks.

“Actually, I think they're very close for me.”

Yeah. All right. I think we probably are going to put something at the front of the episode about this, but we are about to do a really exciting trip.

Jeff, do you want to talk about it for just a quick second?

Yeah. We're going to go to Spalbard. Close. Smallbard. Yeah.

What'd I say? Spalbard. You, it's small with a V-fall. Okay. Yes.

Spalbard. There you go. With national park after dark.

“We're really excited. We've been trying to plan something joint for a while now.”

And this was just a place we all really wanted to go. And we all just love being on a boat. Unfortunately, living on a boat does cost a little bit more. So it might not be in everyone's range, especially in smallbard. Hopefully, we can do some more joint stuff that's more affordable.

But this is how we're going to kick it off. And we're so excited about it. Yeah. Really good chance for polar bears, walrus. Some really cool animals up there. Possible to see northern lights or northern lights.

Woo. It's an amazing place. Everyone that goes there loves it. And yeah, like Jeff said, it's an expensive trip because they are. It's like it's an expensive place to go no matter what.

But we always offer these like the first spots to our people on Patreon.

So if you are really interested in this trip, you can sign up and then cancel later if you want. But that's where we'll first be announcing the time to sign up. But it's coming up quick. After this episode comes out, it'll be a matter of days. So check it out, check out our Patreon and get ready because it's going to be really.

And I want to say too.

“I think for like where we're going, what we're seeing, the joint trip aspect.”

It's actually going to be like a really good price for people. Oh, yeah. So it's cheap as we can do it. Yeah. So I can't wait. I think it'll be.

Yeah. I'm excited. You're going to have to, Jeff. You can't just go tomorrow. You have to wait a little bit.

You could take a bunch of drugs. And you can go into it. Oh, yeah. I call me you. There's just some way that will put me into a coma.

I could do it. I've been wanting to put it to put you a coma or a while actually. How would you do it, man? Just bark you on the head with a lunch pale or one of those big, like clubs from the cavemen use yesterday.

We went and got like ramen at this like super famous ramen spot. The girl walking out of the place. She like opened the door too hard and she made such a funny little don't. In like a Japanese noise though. Like don't.

It's really cute. And I love when my name noises are like, you know what they're doing. But it's like different than how we do it. That is really funny. That's great. All right. Well, thank you guys.

Thank you everyone for listening. We're all going to meet back state side next time we record. So we'll be back in our typical recording environments. All right. Love you.

See ya. Love you. [Music]