Should You Break Up Over Bad Kissing?

From a low-tempo, robust gardener, better to take a picture of it.

"By action, quality and the niedrist price, in hand, in hand, in the case of all garden products in our daily and in the action app, action, little price, big joy." Hello and welcome to the U.A. podcast "I'm Jared Free." And I'm Jack Maloney. "It is such a pleasure to be back here with you, Jack." "Yes, you're terrific." "Thank you for having me back."

"I appreciate it." "Listen, for everyone that has been listening, you know it's Jordana Abraham Maranelli's. Uh, maternity leave, we wish her the best.

“If you want to check in with Jordana, sign up for you up with benefits.”

You sign up, you get two extra podcasts a month, Jordana and I go over Zoom, we're going to check in on her, uh, the babies and all that stuff. So, if you want to update from Jordana, go sign up for you up with benefits. We love doing those episodes. People really genuinely seem to like being a member of that subscription. We don't lose people, which means a lot to us. So, go, go, go. Sign up. The link is in the bio, this episode, Jack.

How are you? What's going on? I'm doing great, Jared. You were on the show. You people loved you. It was on the show. It was so much fun.

You were great.

This is so silly, Jared, but I always think about this one line you just said, like a certain type of way where you just go.

Sometimes it is lonely. I watch that clip all the time for no reason. I'm just like the way Jared said that to me. Autors only. That's like that's the gay candidate in a nutshell. That's only.

My new account, that's my new website where I put out my otter, you know, my otter, you know, pictures that I take. I've been seeing that. I've been seeing that. But they're like otter. Join the otter's only.

But you put little hats on that. Yeah. Love a little hat on an otter. Jack, what's going on in your day in life? When we last checked in, you were like getting out there.

I wasn't getting out there. I still am. Okay. Yeah.

“But I think there's been some developments.”

Please. So like, I don't know. What was that? A couple months ago? Three months ago?

Three months ago? Let's call that. Yeah. It's been a minute. So yeah, I was really getting out there.

And when I was last on, I felt like I was really just trying to meet a lot of people. And now I would say I'm doing the same, but like with slightly more intention. Okay. And like, so I kind of like kind of a dichotomy of my day life right now. I cannot lie.

I have this one half of me that is like really dating with intention. Like, I'm looking for a boyfriend. And then another half of me that's kind of just slotting it up. If I'm so honest. Well, I think this is where, you know, that's gay straight.

However, you identify. That's like a man. Yeah. You know, like, that's where a lot of women get frustrated with men. It is.

Because we have a mostly female straight female audience. But we catered all backgrounds.

“But for those women, they go, why would this guy say?”

He wants a relationship. And now he's getting weird. And now because there is this like devil, you know, angel thing going on. Constantly and honestly girls looking at you. As a gay man, I can completely empathize with you because I deal with men.

But as a man, I am a man. So I know how we think too. This is, and I know I'm capable of the same evil. This is why I'm calmed by the gay community. Right.

You know, like, I feel better. Because I feel crazy. You know, I'm like, wait a minute. I do. And then you hear from a guy who goes, listen, I kind of, I'm operating the same as you with men.

And then I'm dealing with men in the same way that you're, that is, you know, not personal. I think like the fear with dating. And I think most people don't want to be evil. I completely agree. And I would say honestly, the homosexual dating patterns for both lesbians and gay men offer

a really clear, microcosmic example of the problems of women and the problems of men. Okay. Also with the problems of men. Because I am one. We have this dichotomy.

I want a serious relationship. But I kind of also want to get laid.

And I'm always looking for both of those things.

Right. And sometimes there were different people. And like, sometimes I feel like a shitty person. Because I'm like, I'm on the state with you, but now I'm really thinking about having sex with you. Then you have a lot of my lesbian friends who are like, we meet for a week.

And then they want to move in together in a month. So it's like the emotions and the emotionality is doubled. And with gay men and gay women, you have men squared women squared. Right. So it's like, I always say I truly think men and women balance each other very well.

It's an interesting way to force women force men to be more emotionally intelligent, more like connected to like the humanistic part of the relationship. Right. And I also think men can sometimes bring girls out of their shell a little bit. For some, maybe have a little more fun.

I don't know, chill on it a little bit. Take some time and have some fun. Exactly. And that's not always a role, right? Girls can get a child and a guy can be, get a girl to be more humanistic, etc.

But like when you have two men or two women,

That's so you really see that way to put it. So we're going to do some emails here. Nick, your pick, we have Jack is here. Jack Maloney is here. Go follow Jack.

You've seen them in all the batches content. He's killing it hilarious. Does stuff on his own. So you want to go follow Jack Maloney. And he's also doing batches video club.

It's a podcast where they basically go down the stall to road and check out some old movies

and TV shows and then have it out.

“I think that's a great idea for a show at the Jack Maloney.”

Let's do a Nick, your pick, you ready? All right. So we know the game here. Nick, your pick, your dating someone, one thing happens. You're like, is it a valid pick or are you being picky?

Dear Jay and Jay, medium time listener. Hoping one day to be a long time listener. Love the pop. I'm 31 female. Recently reconnected with a guy from college.

We had a really great first date. Easy chemistry, great conversation. And quick, good night kiss. I was feeling optimistic. So second date, not so optimistic.

We had a good time, but wow. Our kissing styles did not mesh. He was very aggressive with a stiff and two-plentiful tongue. And his attempt at second base felt eerily similar to a breast exam at the gym.

So how would that be? Is he like clamping her today?

Yeah, he must be like using like muff hands or something.

Like medical, medical hand. Right, going real close. Yeah, we're kind of, it's either, it's either, I feel like it's either mittens or knives. Oh, you know, that's interesting.

Something that's like really unnatural, right? Because I thought it could be this snapper, but you think it's more of a cupping.

“I think, I think it's probably a cupping.”

Because that would be like a breast exam, right? I would have to be deep in a relationship with someone where we were very comfortable with each other. But I'd like to feel what it feels like to cupping. Yeah, right?

Like what's the weight of that? Right, I just want to like, and then they be like, "What are you doing?" I've had that with like my balls, like women will go, "Oh, I just want to like play and see what it is."

And I'm like, "Oh, that's not, yeah, go ahead." I've had that with my balls too, but it's less curious and more charged. Okay. That's the word.

So is this something you can be blunt about? Or is the only acceptable option to gently guide him in the moment with stuff like I really like it when you? And even though everything I come up with sounds awkward or borderline route,

I've heard the advice to reinforce good behavior, but there was honestly nothing about the kiss. That could be mistaken as good. I actually really like him, but I'm so turned off

by the kissing that I don't think I can get past second base

unless something changes. So if you're picky, he kissed like a medical professional for romance, not a medical exam. So have you dealt with this in your life? Have you ever done?

Yeah. Do you have an example of a guy? I have a guy. This was actually from a wilder, from high school. But I remember this guy was seeing super handsome

really into him. And I would assume high school, we were in high school. But I'm saying in high school, it's always awkward. But like, you guys are both in high school,

dealing with your sexualities. It's a little bit like, "Who do you talk to?" You know, "Who do you take examples from?" There was no heated rivalry. So you can't even look to an example.

No, no. I guess you got porn. We got porn. And that's it. That's kind of scary.

We had Sean Coney.com, which for the game is out there. I don't know. You don't need to know a joke. Don't worry. You don't need to know anything about that.

How would you describe Sean Coney? Like a fraternity naked. Okay. That's what it feels like. Okay.

So we're going to the gym, undress all the guys, and just have them keep doing what they're doing. Okay. Sean Coney. Okay.

So crazy. Crazy. Crazy place to be. I would say, though, this is what you're going to do. I'll see you're going to Jared Freed.com for a very different, you know, thing going on. Tickets to my shows, Vancouver, Tempe.

I'm going to be in Seattle. And if you really love Jared, you can also go to Otters Only. Otters Only. You can see Otters and Hats.

Thank you, Otters and Hats. Otters with clams. Yes, Otters, Otters Otters. Otters Only. Otters Only.

Otters Only. I actually would say, though, my experience with this guy was where I developed a very particular opinion about kissing. So he was so handsome, whatever. We went on good dates.

And when I would kiss him, I felt like I was kissing a wall. Like there would be so no time at all. It'd be like, it'd be like, it'd be like this. Like, there's kind of like an old person with maybe no no tears or something. Like, lips closed.

I was like, we can employ a little tongue. And I would literally like try to actually like, aim my tongue into his mouth to be like, you gotta open up, bro. You're trying to use the jaws of the life to get the jaws up.

I was sort of doing what she's doing in trying to guide him gently without being directly like your horrible kiss or what's going on here. But here's the thing. My mom, when I was growing up, you say something beautiful that I really love. She was like, relationships and dating are all about head and heart connection.

You want to be with someone who you're head and heart or an agreement with. Head being emotions. How do we connect? Do we have shared interest? Do we have good dates?

Do we have chat? Heart is more passion, sex, like physical chemistry.

“That's not everything, but it's half of the equation, right?”

It doesn't have to be.

You need a little bit of both. You need both. And they need to be an agreement. So to me, this sounds like a classic example of headloves it. Heart doesn't love it.

Does she give it another chance? Is this too easy to go back to? Do you?

You know, because she said it's one day and then second date.

This is when the kissing problem. So you're on the second day. I guess we don't know what happened from here. Yeah. You get down with a second date and you've had a bad kiss with someone.

Do you give them another chance? I would say yes, if the dates were really good. Yes. I don't give them another chance.

“And I think the instinct to guide them gently is a good one.”

But I also think, you know, it depends on the context of intimacy, right? For in the bedroom, I feel like you have more license to have conversations about what is occurring. We got feedback on that that was negative really. Herpes episode. It might be different with the herpes episode.

Well, not herpes, but like STIs and testing. Yeah. Have you been tested? People said you don't do that in the bedroom because people might feel like they're being convinced. I guess this is different because it's like kissing.

I'm talking to maybe feedback could be easier because we're both being vulnerable. We're both in a state that. Do you not feel like when you're like in the situation of deep intimacy of like in the bedroom where you can kind of be like, oh, actually, like put your hand there. Oh, I like when you do this or just like encourage this.

You know, she said that there's nothing good to give a compliment on it. And I think that's tough. I think let's wait on that. I think let's wait.

I think if I was on a second day with someone and we made out.

I would assume the make out happened in a context matters in a place that I would not normally make out. Yeah, I agree. Street corner, restaurant, door front, it's in a place that doesn't really make my kisses land the best. Yes, I would agree with that. Like a show.

Like if someone had a show at a bar, I would go, okay, I did my best considering the surroundings. Right.

“So let's have some empathy for the venue that you had the first kiss.”

Let's just have empathy for you went for it. Like let's be happy with the action that took place. You both were on the same pace. Like let's look for the options. You were both having a good time in the same universe as each other. You had fun, they had fun.

Now let's give credit where it's due. You had the kiss. Yeah. Okay, the kiss was underwhelming. Yep. But great first day, great second date until the kiss.

But here's the thing. I have to flag second base felt like a breast exam. That's tough. Right. And how are we?

Where are we having second base? Probably not the street corner. Probably not the concert. I would hope not. So maybe they weren't comfortable.

They're in a venue where a titty grab could have happened. Yeah, they're in a titty grab. Like what the green zone. Right. Like yeah, we're somewhere.

Let's call it probably more semi-private. Who knows, maybe we got to an apartment. We don't know. Right. Or a house or whatever we are.

Maybe we get one more chance. A lane to check. Right. Yeah. Of course.

I think we give it one more chance.

“I don't think it's I think it's a little picky to go.”

Great first date. The kiss was no good. I think it's a little picky. I think it's a second time around where if you.

If here's what I need to erase a bad kiss.

Let's hear it. I need them to respond positively. And thoughtfully to me saying slow down. Slow down. Slow down is like not negative.

It's not. It is a review. And it does help people reassess their timing. Yes. So for a bad kiss or who's coming at you with, you know, the hammer tongue.

Hey, slow down. The hammer down. Like a whispers slow down. If because what they should say from slow down is they should say you take the lead. Let me let me follow you on this kissing journey.

If they can't do that, then the Ick is valid. Because then if they if they refuse to slow down and still try to lead. Because if someone says slow down to me, I'm going to go. You're you're the pay center now. Yeah.

That's the appropriate to me. And again, this is all personal. This is my opinion. You might disagree. That's okay.

But this is to me, slow down is just such a great way of giving a review that's not shaming them. Gentle consenting. Gentle parenting totally. And it's a way for them to go for you to go. Listen, I'm going to take the reins here.

Yeah. Now, this might be horrible advice. But maybe this is because of my general sense of grandeur as a person. Okay. But I just want to go back first.

Yeah. That also doesn't help the titty grab. I'm just saying titty grab is. That's first kissing. We're in a different.

Yeah. That's a different part. Yeah. Let's let them make it so they rethink their grabbing of the titty. Yeah.

Because if we're kind of doing cup and right, we don't want to go.

Let me unbutton the shirt.

You guys take the, you take the total reins. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No.

“I was just saying I think, and this is probably just my general sense of grandeur”

and value of whimsy. But I like to sometimes in a sexual context or in intimacy. Just like be like, okay. Imagine if I was in a movie. And I wanted this to be going because it's really good.

Or because the date was really good, but it's not going the way I wanted to. How could I like keep the spark? How could I keep it cinematic? But like direct him towards the way I wanted to be. You know what I mean?

So how would I do it? I would stay in the zone of like sexy time. Like maybe with tone of voice or like. And it kind of be like, oh, like really good when you do that. Oh, wait, maybe.

I guess I'm saying I have nothing to say really good. I know. That's the top part. That's the top part. I do understand.

But yeah, yeah.

But I agree with you that we should have a third date because I think if this was.

We had an okay date and the kissing sucked. I'd be like, all right, we're done. Bye.

“But if you're telling me we had a great date.”

Great. We had a history. Except this. Give it a shot. Maybe you need to reset the context.

We don't know what the context of Titi Rab was. Where were we? Let's say maybe think about whatever whatever that context was and try to make a better one for this next time. And see if you can cinematically coach him. Right.

I saw more of our advice for the Ikea pick you were saying it's a little picky. But with it as an option. Yeah. We're not saying it's not picky. But we're in picky land on date two.

Everything's great. But a bad kiss and a weird Titi grab. We're saying change the venue. You whisper your words. Yeah.

And how about let's see how they respond to a slowdown. Yeah. Slowdown. I really think. And but I agree with you.

“Let's get the venue to feed mom's ahead.”

Slowdown. We are pausing this episode with Jack because we have an exciting story that just came in and an exciting new sponsor. It's time for smashing the break up. And it's time for us to come back to the next episode. We're going to take a break up with you.

We're going to take a break up with you. We're going to take a break up with you. We're going to take a break up with you. We're going to take a break up with you. We're going to take a break up with you.

We're going to take a break up with you. We're going to take a break up with you. We're going to take a break up with you. We're going to take a break up with you. We have that I went through recently.

Maybe you can talk me out of doing something crazy. I broke with my last boyfriend not long after he lost his job. I know how that sounds. But I didn't break up with him because he got laid off. We were having some other problems in our relationship.

And it was it was just time when we first broke up.

I felt really awful about the timing of all of it because I've been laid off before. And I know how terrible it feels despite that. I thought we ended things in a okay place. But recently, one friend spelled that he has been talking to people in our circle that I only ever wanted him for his money. It's just hilarious.

I have my own money. And that's not why we broke up. And he knows that I was more spiteful. I would err on all of our dirty laundry from our relationship and make a big mess. But I don't want to do that. I just want to be chill and go our separate ways.

I don't want to engage with his bullshit. But I also don't want people thinking I'm the villain here. I'm not a petty person. But I can go there if I need to. So how would you navigate this situation?

Thanks for all that you do better than revenge bit. I love this because it's a tough one because the consequences of ending something with someone is that they have a story that people will agree with more than you. That's the consequence. You ended something for no reason at all.

You had a good person that liked you, that wanted to be with you, that you were like, ah, I'm out. I can find better love somewhere else. Which I agree with you. It wasn't for you.

It wasn't the match. That's okay. You're just going to have trouble finding a lot of people who are going to have fun with that conversation. Your story is not juicy. Yeah, it was a great relationship.

They're a nice person. But I just had to move on from it. They lost their job, which was a little bit awkward. But I guess I'll have to deal with that. That's all your story is.

His story when you're dumped. Ooh, you've got a juicy one. What happened? I don't know. She just must have fell out of love with me.

I just lost my job. Maybe she's more into me when I was making money than when I wasn't making money. Maybe that's all the matter. He has a fun reality TV show episode that he can sit at the table and treat the brunch.

That is the pleasure of being dumped.

Is that everyone gets to, ooh, and ah, and you deserve better. And she can go screw herself. Fuck her. That is the unfairness of being the dumpper. That's why I feel for the dumpper.

I am the dumpper most of the time. So you have found a great place to complain to. As far as being seen as the villain, you're going to. I'm sorry to inform you that's going to happen for you. Someone's going to see you as the villain.

There's nothing you can do about it. Meeting petty with petty will only get you more petty. Throwing gasoline at a fire will only make more fire. What I would do is value you is I would shoot him a text. Hey, some things got back to me that made me feel really badly.

I heard that you're telling people that I only want to date you for your money or for financial reasons. I want you to know that if it came off that way, I'm really sorry you felt that was why I was with you. That is not the truth. And I would really appreciate you not saying those things to other people because it really isn't my truth. And it's unfair to me to be painted that way.

That's all you have to do.

“You have to own it. You have to say acknowledge that maybe they feel that way because it might feel that way from there.”

You can't really deny that. You can't tell someone how to feel. If I lost my job and someone dumped me within a month of me losing my job, that is something I could say if I felt my ego was bruised enough to say it. And that's thanks for you because you have no control over the feelings that he's selling people. But you can say to him, hey, when you use my name, be a little bit more careful because it is getting back to me. So that's what you're letting him know. Hey, these things are getting back to me. I'm hearing about this.

I want to let you know that that was not my intent. I can't convince you to feel a different way, but I'm letting you know these words are on paper. This is what I am trying to tell you. Is that it wasn't about that, but I can't control how you feel. But also please saying that to other people because I'm hearing everything and you think that you're being secretive and fun.

You're not. And now you would hope he would feel bad. No one wants to be known as a shit talker. You would hope that he would take it back.

The people he said it to will never unhear what they heard.

But at least you have sent some sort of warning to let him know that his words are being heard. So I hope that helps you. I think you need to let go of this. I don't want to be the villain. You are. When you dump someone you are, you are in a position of power.

You are punching down there. The loser, you're the winner. You're going to find hotter. He's going to find nothing. That's okay. But we're going to move on. You can send one text. One text. That's all for smashing the breakup.

Thanks again to Sonic. Remember, breakups are about growth.

“And sometimes the best way to get over a breakup is by upgrading your standards.”

Including your burger standards. Break up with your burger and try the Sonic $6 all American smasher meal instead. It's almost over the way. You have to go to school. And then you have to grow up. No, no. I don't grow up.

I don't grow up like that. You don't grow up like that? Yes, exactly. I don't grow up like that. I don't grow up like that. I don't grow up like that.

I don't grow up like that. I don't grow up like that. I don't grow up like that. I don't grow up like that. I don't grow up like that.

I don't grow up like that. This is a world. In the back of the year, a sea of ice. And a sea of ice.

A sea of ice everywhere. This world is created as big Britain. From the left hand to the right, looking at the vast star of history, a lot more on TripAdvisor.de.

Great Britain. Let's do another email. You, you'd be at batches.com. Jack Maloney, you're killing it.

“This is a second time on the show that here.”

Also, I have the point out. We're still high. We're still J.J. We're still J.J. You don't even have to change that.

Keep it consistent. I mean, keep that. I love it. All right, let's go. Let's do it.

Do another email. Let's do. We got an advice email. All right. You want me to read this one?

You read it. Hi, J.J. And J. I am 24 in a trans woman. And I'm writing because I'm feeling really discouraged

about dating and about not being seen as a real option. Recently, I was at dinner with friends. And we were talking about this cute guy. Everyone kept saying how sweet he was and how they needed to find him a good girl to date. Half joking, I said something like, hey, I'm available and willing.

And everyone laughed and kept going on about finding him and I scroll. I even doubled down and said, like, hello. And while I was joking on the surface, it was very clear that no one actually saw me as a serious option.

So first of all, girl, hearts out to you, hearts out to you, hearts out to you.

No, this sucks. Yeah, this sucks. So let's see what, so let's sort of heighten it.

What's heighten it? I don't want to hide it. I don't want to hide it. But it heightens, I fear. What made it hurt more is that these people are people I consider friends.

They affirm my gender, use the right name and call me a girl. But when it comes to real life, dating, it feels like there is a disconnect. None of them would ever think to set me up with one of their straight friends.

And it made me realize that being affirmed socially does not always mean being seen romantically.

For context, I have not medically transitioned and I understand that might be part of it. I'm not expecting everyone to be attracted to me. What hurts is the assumption that no straight guy ever would be simply attracted to me because I am not a cis woman. It makes the dating pull feeling incredibly small. It makes me question if I'm being realistic or if I'm internalizing something that is not true.

“So my question is how do you cope with feeling invisible or written off before you even get the chance?”

And how do you talk to friends about this without sounding accusatory or insecure? Thanks for reading and for everything you do. Complicated. I think this is complicated. This is very interesting.

It is very interesting and I'm very curious honestly about your perspective as a straight man. Because I feel like I have the queer eye in where I know so many trans girls. And I'm my absolute best friend in the world actually happens to be a trans girl. And it is a very, very, very challenging experience for dating.

Because you have gay men want to date men.

Straight men want to date women and trans women are women. But are they women in the eyes of straight men? Because they were born male. So it's like then they're thinking about oh we'll do you still have a you know. Well let me start with your you're bringing me into a world where I feel like I don't want to say the wrong things.

How do you mean and I just want to like please if I make a wrong step. I'm giving you the permission to say to treat me like a big dummy and tell me what I'm wrong. Because I will do. But this is also part of my answer. Okay.

“Is that I think there's such you know like again what they're dealing with is friends who are somewhat being performative in my opinion.”

Like their friends are saying all the right things again in the way that I'm trying to say the right things. But what do they truly feel? And I'm sure she feels that and knows that from certain people. I'm sure there are friends she knows are like we have this with comedy.

Let me relate to something that relates to that.

And I tell someone I'm a comedian. I know right away when they're like put off by that don't get it and when they get it. And when they're like wonderful people I want to confide in and I'm sure she has that to. She has levels of feelings that no one can tell or how to feel when someone's like. Oh my god, you know like they're talking about something or when they're talking.

She said she's they're using the right terms and it's like using the right terms doesn't mean that they see you as the way that you want to be seen or asking them to see you. And this happens to everyone. Generally like that feels other. Yeah. You know, again like I've been the overweight friend.

I've been the friend that goes they go they don't see you as the person they would fix up. I'm been the funny friend. I get that. Again like and again so like to make it so. To kind of like normalize this which is I would assume what she wants.

Yeah. It's to be just a part of the conversation. Yes. I think it sucks because. What her friends.

And again like this is nothing about the perspective men as much as it is about her friends. Yeah. Right. And you know like obviously we don't know her friends. We don't know who they were talking about and how they're connected.

But I completely agree with you. I mean listen from my own experience where I felt other I you know. I definitely have been other within the gay community before the gay community can be very harsh. Very visual. It's men.

Right. So they're looking for a certain body type a certain size a certain. Well something and like you know there was a period of my life where I was overweight. Like that period proved a lot harder for me dating. Right.

And it's also a lot of your own insecurities that you know to where you go. Like again like when she hears everyone discussing. This guy who's single. Mm-hmm. And then they don't bring her up as an option.

She's saying it's because of a trans woman. Yeah. It might be this guy likes certain types or has they know something about his dating history. Or it might be exactly what she thinks. We don't know.

In my our plight my plight is with weight and our plight is weight with or comedian is not the same as hers. We're just trying a hundred percent just like relating to the idea of other feeling other. Right. And like there are many ways.

“I think what becomes challenging about trans.”

The trans experience is like when I was overweight I could decide what I wanted to do about my body. Mm-hmm. And then that decision and the autonomy I had there changed my outcomes. And that's not me saying everyone should lose weight today. But I just felt like oh because of I know I know the environment of gay men and of gay dating.

Turns out I did. I had to make peace with the fact that that was a true. Mm-hmm.

“Because I think I also had to realize I was just as beautiful when I was heavier as I am now.”

Right. I know different now internally and even honestly externally even with less weight. And I had to get to a point for myself where I could say you are so beautiful and you deserve love. In the mirror when I was at my heaviest and felt physically the ugliest I ever was. Right.

But then I had to realize if I keep saying that to myself and about myself I will never

Exude the energy of somebody who is attractive. Well but also it but also this is the thing you can't really get ahead of. Like you can tell yourself how to feel and try and work on that. But then your friends say one thing that doesn't fit in line with the way you would wish them to act. Yes.

And on that note I want to really shout out to that my journey and the things I just talked about are much simpler. I feel like the trans female experience. There's so many more barriers. Let's even talk about the fact that she's like for context I've not medically transitioned. Okay.

Well there's a million reasons why that might be. It's expensive. It's inaccessible. We don't know where she lives. Is it even legal anymore?

I mean we're going to time in our country where that's becoming a problem too. But beyond that she just wants someone to go. You're into men and you want to be thought of. Like to sit down. Like we'll thought of in the context of dating.

Yes. Like you want to be thought of. You want to be in the conversation with your friends. Yes. And right now this is a show that your friends aren't thinking of you as an option for someone who might want to date you.

And then they're assuming for them. And now you're seeing it.

That's the problem is I'm getting an honest answer for my friends.

And before I was getting a maybe not as honest answer. And I think say to your friends. Hey, I told you I wanted to maybe date this guy.

“I think this is like an argument with the friends.”

The guy is like kind of separate. Like I think to my friends I would be like, Hey, when I brought, if I wanted to have this out with these. And I would have to decide on these close friends of mine. Well here's the thing too.

It's like really what I'm hearing through this as well. Is like your friends see you as a woman. Until it becomes about sex and dating. Right. We're talking about straight men specifically.

Have you ever been on a date with the trans girl? I have never, like, masterful on an app or anything like that. I don't think I have that you would have known about. Okay, yeah. I didn't, you know, I have seen trans women on the apps and have not matched or if I had.

I actually unmatched because it wasn't for me. Uh-huh. And what wasn't for you? I'm just kind of curious. I just, you know, what wasn't for me.

I guess it was, it was far outside of what I've known or understood. And I think that, you know, what the unknown is fear. Yeah. And what were you afraid of? Does it feel like the, the, the, the,

Probably a million different things.

You know, there's, there's outside judgment that I'm not, you know, you're not proud to say that, but that's probably a good part of this important. It's also lead to here. It's also like, what I, what I've known, you know, we stick to what we have known and what we've been brought up with.

Right. I'm a straight guy. Does that change my, like am I looking to have the conversation with myself? That would be included at 40 years. Like this is all things that like, you know,

it's like, you can't really control that. You know, it's so interesting that you say that though because that's, I think what I was sort of, that's one of the main things that comes up in my brain is do straight men feel like if they date a trans girl, that their identity is somehow not threatened,

but influx or in a way that makes them uncomfortable.

“If you want to think about the plight of a straight man,”

which no one's really the plight of a straight man. I, I, I. I'm deeply interested to tell me about it. I, like I talk a lot about like a finger in the butt during a blow job that I'm like, that is pretty amazing.

It's like putting bacon on a cheeseburger. Okay. And when I talk about that, I, and I think it's, it's funny, but it's also like it, it's, it's pretty unbelievable. I'm okay with that.

I've, I've jokingly referred to myself as the Rosa Parks of straight male ass plate. I'm okay with my sexuality enough to have that out and make those jokes. But there's someone out there who's like finger in the butt during a blow job. No fucking way.

They don't have to deal with it in the way I kind of stammered on about dating a trans woman. I would think that they have a similar thing. The problem as a straight man, and this isn't, this is just society. I'm not going to fix this.

Mm-hmm. A woman coming out and saying, well, he likes a, you know, if I said, if I went to a bar and I was in an argument with my girl, my ex girlfriend, I said, well, she likes, like if, and she walks in the bar.

We're at a bar.

She screams out.

He likes a finger in the butt during a blow job.

Everyone's like, whoa, whoa. There's like a, there's a reaction. There's a, what's his deal? Is he off? Is he different?

What's going on? If the reverse happened. If I walked into a bar and my ex girlfriend was there and I was like, she likes a finger in the butt when I go down on her. Everyone's like, all the men there are going, and that's pretty hot.

“I think straight men are not allowed to have a wide spectrum”

when it comes to their sexuality. Now, that's something to explore. This is my point with the butt scenario. Yeah. Yeah.

I am judged on a div. Oh, so he loves that. That's what the response of it. Uh-huh. No, I did it once and I liked it.

And I liked it, right? That's how it all. If I told the girl, like, so you're saying that, you feel like that judgment comes from women? Oh, yeah.

It's interesting. Of course. Of course, everyone. But especially women. You know, like, so I think, like, again, to go back to the email

or the trans woman, like, there's a lot of stuff to cut through. There's a lot. And I don't-- We can talk about it for an hour. Or to this podcast.

For a day.

It has always been about like telling the weather

and to bring an umbrella. So like, I think to her, if I was like, you know, we start with my friends and like, hey, I'm a little annoyed at you guys that I was like ignored.

And I felt like I was like a crazy person for being like, I want to date that guy. Give him the opportunity. And I'm not going to make him evil if he's like, that's not for me.

You know, that's okay. This is not for me. Yeah. I mean, the way he even said that, she's like, I understand that I'm not expecting

to everyone to be attracted to him. Right?

“And I think she has to deal with the amongst”

the many places she has to deal with. Like, I'm not-- I'm not envious of that. She also has to deal with the men she wants to date having to deal with whatever they're dealing with.

That sucks. So I think in everything you're saying, I hear a few things. One, the patriarch is doing us all dirty. Because we can't--

We all can't. We all can't. It's all dirty because your sexuality has a straight man even feels like it has these boundaries. Oh, of course.

Because of expectations, the plight of a straight man, right? I am because of the embarrassment, of course. Of course. You know, put into 100%. And then you have trans girls who just want to be seen

as women. Right. But also, you know, what to be seen as everything they are. And just want to be considered.

Right. Just want to be visible. Seeing validated by their friends, by men. Right. And I would say, I challenge you and all straight men out there.

Right. To, if you know that your, your fear of maybe endeavoring a trans woman comes from society, then maybe push pat-- Well, like, a stranger's also push past.

It's funny. If you could be open to it. Well, it's funny. That would be a nice thing. Yeah.

But, like, we're even seeing in this email. Even their closest friends are the ones in the way of that. Do you want to be like, who do we start with?

“When we start with the random guy who's listening to this?”

Like, to me, you start with me. Who's like, I don't know. That would be, like, again, that's something I'm not, like, proud to say out loud that I'm not the most open and ready for that type of guy.

You know what? I don't even know if proud is even the word. But, like, I'm like, I hear the friends. Well, the friends aren't even allowing for that to happen. But, you know what, Jared?

I actually do think it can start with you. I mean, you or, yes, you or any man who's willing to push past that societal anxiety. Because we have the internet. We have phones. We can talk about our stories and share our stories.

And I know my trans best girlfriend is always showing me a lot of videos about trans girls

online being like dating. It's so hard dating. And she's like, there's no good examples of actual successful relationships. If you become not or someone else like you, like you becomes that, you start to break that barrier.

Jim Nord, no one we got to have on this show. Jim Norton, famous comedian, you was on O&A back in the day. Jim Norton, his wife is trans, I think. So, and we've been actually, we had him scheduled, and we were trying to make it happen.

That'd be good. But, Jack Ballony, thank you so much for coming. Thank you, Jared. Always a subject. Ever go follow at the Jack Ballony.

We are the U of podcasts. It's every Wednesday and Friday. It's a Friday feels, so we will see you next week. Boom.