Ep 1299 | The Same Dark Forces That Killed Jesus Still Drive Culture Today

We are taking the course with Hillsdale every Friday. We're doing the Ancient Christianity course right now. And we have something that we're excited to tell you about. We're going to do a contest. We are going to pick one listener to come down to Western

or Louisiana and watch us record Unashamed. We're going to pay for it as well. We're going to give you guys travel and lodging for you and a guest up to $1,000 each.

“All you have to do is take the Ancient Christianity course with us at Hillsdale.”

Finish all the quizzes and send us your certificate application. Once you've finished the course, you upload your certificate at watchunashamed.com. You'll be entered in for the drawing. We're going to pick the winner by June. So you guys jump in there, finish it, take the course with us.

It's been absolutely amazing.

I hope you guys will join us. I am Unashamed. What about you? We are back on the Unashamed podcast. This is Unashamed for Hillsdale on Fridays.

We are going through the course called Ancient Christianity. It's been absolutely phenomenal. You guys can take the course free with us at Unashamed for Hillsdale.com. Take the course for free and we have a little prize guys. You guys know about the contest, right?

Are you all excited about it? I'm stoked for it. Yeah. So if you finish and you send us your certificate that you've actually finished this course, then we are going to have a drawing and we're going to invite one person and a guest.

We're going to invite one person and a guest. We're going to pay a thousand dollars each for you guys to come here and you can come

hang out with us in West Monroe on set, meet the cast and watch a shot.

So we want you guys not just to take the course with us, we want you to finish the course. You guys are y'all stacking up certificates like me. Oh, yeah. I haven't printed mine out like alhouse. I have all my printed.

Yeah. I'm surprised they're not behind you in your studio right now. You know, that could, that's a great idea, Chris, and that should decorate my wall with my certificates. You should just get it on the plaque. Yeah, I like looking at him.

It's a sense of accomplishment at the end of every course. And we won't folks descend to me, right? Exactly, because is that what you said? Yeah, send a man, send a man, and then we're going to draw all. We're having a drawing, and we'll put him in a basket.

We'll do the whole, we may even have a podcast. I hope I hope Frank wins. How epic would that be? If you're listening, if you're listening, Frank, please send in your certificate. But here's the little Frank. If you come, and we share it together, you're probably not going to be so mean online anymore.

If we have to break bread together, sir. I hope Frank wins too. If Frank does win, I promise you it was not rigged. I love it when we folks are sitting with us. I live audience. We all speak in public, and do a lot of that.

“So I think it's always better with a few people in studio when that can happen.”

So it would be exciting to have somebody in. Right now, it would just be John Luke. It's just Luke. None of us are in the actual studio. Christian is in a undisclosed location.

But I did say a picture of the window you're looking at, and it's very pretty there. It is very pretty, yep. Sorry, are you 30A? Is that where you're at down your old stomping grounds? Yeah, we're in the old stomping grounds. Now it's a disclose.

Yeah, you never heard my bit on 30A.

Now it's no longer disclosed. Well, it's a big place. I think I've heard your bit. Yeah, you're not a fan. I want to hear how they fan.

But the time this air is Christian will be long gone. Yeah, sure. It is beautiful down here this week, though. Because I'm just up the beach from Christian, you know, to the west. But the water yesterday, we had lunch on a restaurant on the beach. And it is, I mean, gorgeous.

And there's a lot of people from north down here because of different spring breaks have already begun. And so I saw a few lobsters walking around. I love when the people from north come down. They just go out there. Just, no sunscreen, no anything to get on the side.

And then they look just red. Oh, you can always tell. Yeah, you can tell the, the, the, the inexperienced beach goers. It's actually a beautiful area. The problem, my problem with 30A is not.

“I think it's one of the most beautiful beaches in the state of Florida.”

I grew up in Florida. So I'm a, I'm a native. Feridian, which is a very rare thing to be actually born in the state of Florida. I was born there. It's a lot of transplants in a lot of transplants and it's just so crowded.

I mean, we went, we went last year. But at least it's cheap, at least it's cheap. And there's a, it's not cheap. Yeah. Yeah.

That's cheap. Yeah. You can take the right time to go as a. I hope you. Okay.

Next time. My advice to be this, if you had, if you look at your bank account and you're like, I have way too much money. I have to give me some of this. I just want to waste it.

Then I would say what you did is book you and trip the 30A.

[laughs] I mean, it's so good. It's no joke, man. No joke.

“Well, last, the last lecture we did was lecture.”

Yeah. I was, I was actually at the beach yesterday too. With the kids, the lake beach. The lake beach. Similar.

The, it will is out. Yeah. And the kids are catching minas. And then they got me go over there and look at the, the pretty water.

It was like the rainbow oil spill up. Going on in there. So not quite 30AB. Not quite the same. Pretty water.

It was definitely essential there.

Tell us about how's it going with your twin. Yes, and all that. We forgot to ask you on the last episode. People who I'm sure are wondering. Yeah, twin updates.

It's actually being a super good. It's really, I mean, we've been just thinking going on. Because it is gone. We've been saying with these twins. It's definitely more than one.

But it's not twice as hard.

“And I think that it's partly just because they're really great.”

Babies. But also. You're saying the twins. The twins. Having twins.

Having twins. Having twins. Having twins. Having twins. Having twins.

Having twins.

Is definitely more than having one child.

But it's not twice as hard. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying. I'm saying.

I'm saying. I'm saying. I'm saying. He's smart. He's saying.

It's like one and a half. Yeah. I would say it's like two. One point three times harder than having one. Baby.

Yeah. But the way you said that was. You'd have to be a Dungeons and Dragons master too. I got it. Yeah.

Because you were like, you know, having twins is definitely more than one. I'm like, yeah, it's two. Yeah. I'm like, it was, it just confused me the way you phrase that. I absolutely got it.

This. This is our, your brain is way up here. And I'm like, that may complete sense. But you didn't even to explain it more. Kind of like a theory.

So you're saying that the work, you're talking about the work of having twins is more than the work of having twins is not as hard as having. It's not like you've got one baby in that work. It's a amount of work. And then you double that amount of work to have twins.

It's not that. That I just confused myself on that one. See, I'm like, explain it to me like I'm five. Yeah. Explain it to me like I'm 80.

It's not as hard as I thought it was going to be. Just wisdom. But the other day I counted. So how many kids you got? How many kids you got?

I'm five kids total. Is that five times harder than having that.

“That's that's why that's what I do that.”

If you went from one. Yeah, once you have five kids, you don't like. It's like a good example. Like first kid, you're like, you're so paranoid about everything. You don't want them like touching stuff.

Just get germs on it. And then by the time you get to the fifth kid, like they're running around with a butcher knife. And you're like, that down. We're running over the butcher knife. Sit down if you can play with the butcher knife.

You just don't. You just kind of, you get a lot more laid back. So you guys are already there. Because you had three kids. So moving into this, what you're just not going to.

You're not going to have the same level of energy and like. Condiction over the matter. You don't know what I mean? No, I even think we're making hours saying we even think going from three to five is still easier than going from zero to one. Yeah.

Like that first one is I just think is always the toughest.

I mean, some people say like one, one to two is harder. But once you get past three, it's just like, well, you already know what to do. You know how to change the diaper. You know how to do this while you've got all the stuff. So it's way easy.

At some point over the next couple of months, John looks going to provide us with the cold open involved in a little. So we just had a couple of stay at our house this week. We weren't home. Obviously they're from North Carolina. They have seven.

And the first time I met him, I was like, I mean, you literally, you're just what the stair step. You know, you just look at the ladder. And it's so interesting because they sent us a picture. And they come through every year. And every about third year we're home there when they come and stay with us.

And the great family that we met through the podcast actually. And they measure, you know, like, so in our house, on one of the door frames, my grandkids met, you know, do the measure every six months or a year. And of course, some of the some of Zach's crew and Melissa's kids are on that as well. Well, I never noticed it. But the lady that's her family who stay in there, they've been doing measurements on the other door frame.

I told Lisa said, you know, we're running a basically a hotel when other families are doing their family measure kid measurements on your door frame.

“So they were showing us like the one who's in the middle of the seven now is taller than all the rest.”

You know, I guess all the height genetics went to him. So he's like, he's like, 12, but he's taller than everybody else in this family. But it's all my door frame. So there you go. I mean, I'm tracking this family.

Well, the other thing we're tracking right now is the history of the early and ancient church that we're all a part of the ancient. That's a nice segue. Nice segue there. If you guys are not taking this course with us going to understand for Hillsdale.com sign up for take it with us. Last lecture was 42 minutes long on the lecture, which is longer than most of these.

And I was kind of surprised that we actually got through all of that history in the last podcast. You were like, and then I was a lot. There was a lot of information, a lot of history. And I think you took copious notes. So you said you've taken more notes off of that third lecture than in the end.

Well, too. Because I'm the kind of person. I like writing things down as I'm listening because it helps it kind of register my brain. Then I go back. Usually if I'm going to turn that around and teach it or share it in some capacity, then I'll type it again.

So this kind of how my brain works to access information. And so I took three full pages. I mean, I was literally just having, you know, right or cramp taken notes from the last one. Now this lecture on the life of Jesus was so fresh because we've been studying and teaching and leading discussion on the gospels. That for the last few, a couple of years on the podcast. And so it was really, you know, it's like anything else.

You can study something or listen someone else teach and you always pick up things that you hadn't picked up before.

“That's why Bible study is so interesting and getting perspective is so interesting.”

And people ask in questions or highlighting different things that you hadn't thought about. And so I love this one as well. This is the story of the gospel, you know, literally. And so this is like the life-changing events. I would say this is even though we're only like in the fourth lecture in the series. This really is the heart of the matter is the way I would just grab this story. Yeah, what was so cool about this one for me was he explained the gospel.

You know, told you what the gospel was, but he coincided with the history of what was happening at that time period.

I've never really heard someone articulate the gospel and history like so intertwined the way he did.

I thought it was really fascinating. Yeah, it's kind of a bat. He's kind of backs up a little bit because you don't want the last lecture. He was speaking about your knee where I will knee row right after the time of Christ.

“So we kind of back up a little bit. I think that lecture four was kind of a broad paintbrush stroke of a lot of the years ending around the 87 range.”

So when now we're kind of backing up and just hyper-focusing on just the life of Christ. And really who was Jesus? I mean, we, as you write them, we've been asking this question in the podcast recently in our study of our son like who even is Jesus? And what was interesting about this course, I think this particular lecture is, is this the emphasis on how Jesus did not fit into both the Greco Roman idea of what but a God or Messiah would be and also, obviously, Jesus didn't fit into the current, you know, cultural, I guess, the imagination of the Jewish culture either.

So he is this interesting figure in that he doesn't fit into a box that anybody has a category for Jesus and who he, and how he came. And I think that is one of the areas why he stands out is such a very controversial figure in human history. And I thought, I took the same thing from that and you know, my first thought was, you know, why that is the case is because he's bigger than the box. So he can't fit in a box because he's above the box. And so, you know, that's, we know that knowing if he really is who we believe he is incarnate God,

then of course he couldn't fit in a box because he's bigger than all the boxes. But like Christian, I felt it really interesting understanding historical context around what was happening, even the political landscape in how Jesus is interacting because of what's going on. And so I thought that was one of the highlights to me that I learned that I didn't know. And the other thing I hadn't thought about before is about how many like false messiahs were probably around in the first century,

And so because of that, you had a lot of false choices to go along with the real choice.

“And with all that, it was making more confusing. And even the concepts he talks about the end of the lecture about Barabas and the thieves on the cross,”

how they could have been actual false messiahs or rebels, you know, against the Roman Empire.

And just think about it because there was a lot of that going on in the first century.

So that would have made it even more confusing for people to try to understand who Jesus really was. He really the son of God. The doctor Calvert points out that the Christ was the Messiah. The problem was that the Jewish people at the time they didn't receive him as that, because they didn't really know how they didn't have the expectation that the Messiah would come in this way. And we talked about this quite a bit of what was their expectation.

“Their expectation was, I think, a more of a political leader.”

And so even the way that Jesus arrives on the scene is so humble, everything is so humble, right?

He doesn't need to defend himself. He arrives in the form of a baby, the way he lives his life. I mean, and honestly, to me, that's, I want to live my life the way that Jesus did. I mean, he really did shape the world in a way that is not the way that any human power would do it. And then on the Greek side of it, the fact that he was God incarnate, you know, God in a body. The Bible says that the God, the fullness of God, the fullness of deity was pleased to dwell in bodily form.

That idea was that the Greeks did not have a Greek philosophy, he didn't have a category for that. Because the way that John that you mentioned in the last podcast, I mean, their view of the human body was, maybe it was perfected in that moment. But inherently this thing's breaking down this thing's dying, this thing's going to tear apart. And so they didn't have an idea of how deity could dwell in body. Ironically, they ended up worshiping the physical world in a way through the gymnasium and things like that.

That was kind of an interesting irony, I thought about, but there's no category for this for this God. This Jesus who understood himself to be God. And so what you have in the gospels is you have four different accounts, a Matthew, Mark, look and John, four different accounts of people's experience with Jesus. But the one thing that they all agreed on and that all the four gospels point to is that Jesus actually is God incarnate. And that's a massive undertaking to even comprehend what that means.

Well, you know, what's interesting about not only the incarnate God Zach is that he makes the point about life beginning at conception from the idea of Jesus in the womb.

“And I thought about you remember that I can't remember maybe in Luke's account where or maybe Matthew were John the Baptist leaps and Elizabeth's womb whenever Mary comes to visit.”

And so again, this idea of life inside the womb and it wasn't really new.

I mean, he mentioned that it was, you know, maybe in the first century people thought about this more because of Mary and what in the situation.

But you know, David even mentions it in Psalm 139 and also in Psalm 51 when he kind of makes that hyperbolic statement about being inside his sinful inside his mother's womb. The idea that life begins at conception and not at birth. And it was when he think about that incarnate God, do you think about it? I mean, Mary housed the son of God inside her body for nine months before she, you know, she gave birth to him. And that's for all of us. And so again, this is a very relevant issue because the last face that we hear and take part in debates every day about, you know, when do we want to protect life.

And it's very evident and clear, scripturally for sure, as well as it should be scientifically that life begins at conception and should be protected as such. But obviously we know because of the evil one and influence, that's not the case and so all of these different laws about, you know, when a child should be protected from abortion. And we all know, I mean, we know it inherently because you just seems right, but but scripturally and the story of Jesus and John the Baptist as well, to me shows you that it's a, it's a, it's a godly concept as well, even though it's a relevant issue, you know, that we still discuss and debate today. And, and of course,

The idea about, you know, the life doesn't matter, is if it's a threat to your power, whatever the power of basis.

“Well, that threat came to because the magic I came in and they're bringing these gifts of gold, frankincense and mirror, but these gifts or gifts that would commonly be used as from King the King.”

And so I love the way the interior right puts it that the, the, the gospels are the story of how God became King. The such a beautiful, like way of thinking about this, that what Jesus, this is a story about Jesus becoming King, God becoming King. And so when he rides on the scene in the manger, you know, the, the, the, the magic I who are coming to actually bring gifts that the particular gifts they were bringing are actually testifying to the fact that the, that the King of the Jews has arrived.

“So you can imagine going back to what we talked about in the previous podcast, you know, here at his background of all the herids. I mean, these guys were, what you call them was puppets.”

And, and then John, like kind of, not push back, but kind of caveat it, they were puppets, but with really, because they were serving their own self interest. So you can imagine that probably was quite the threat if your herid, you hear about this, this baby, you know, by the way that he's a son of David, right, just like Joseph was called son of David as dad.

So, so you know the prophecies, I guarantee you that herid probably knew those prophecies very well, because he was on the lookout for any one who would rise up and take his position.

“And so their Jesus, just as a baby, just as a rival alone is an incredible threat to the current power structure that held power over, over Jerusalem in this particular moment history.”

Yeah, two quick points. The one I thought it was cool. He brought that out about Joseph and Jesus being the only two people in the New Testament named. But it is interesting, and I'm, because I've, you know, really hear people talk about it much, but like I did think it's confusing why Joseph is not mentioned much in the Scriptures at all, really, what do y'all, what are y'all's thoughts on on why he's not really mentioned much. Well, most, most scholars think he probably died the fair, it must have died early. It's one of the reasons why he's not the narrative, and certainly by Jesus' death, since he hands her over to the apostle John to look after would have meant he wasn't in the picture at that point. So, but that's what most people think, and that's probably true.

But, but you're right. I mean, I, I had not thought about it and quite that stark a term that, that he was mentioned because of the Matthew one genealogy as a son of David, which meant that he was royalty. Yeah, he could have been a king. Yeah, he could have been a king, right. He had role blood, which was very interesting, and because we think about Jesus' link, you know, you go over to look three and you read the genealogy of what most people believe is Mary's side of the equation, which also goes back, you know, to a royal island, so Jesus was covered from both ways to be a king.

And it's just very interesting, but we don't really think about Joseph in that term in that manner, because really, the only time he plays a role is in the early days of Jesus' life and you're right.

That's all we know about the math. Yeah, I thought it was interesting. The other point, I can't remember where I was hearing this, but it was talking about when the magic brought the gold frinkences in the mirror, and it was talking about how at the time, Mary and Joseph would have no money right there, and when Jesus is bored and they're in the end, they're not financially stable, they don't have a ton of money. When they flee to Egypt, they're talking about how Egypt is away, wealthier, you know, land than where they're coming from, and the person who was talking about how the gold from the magic, I was what provided them sustenance and a place to live in Egypt, which I've never heard anyone else talk about that, I thought that was interesting.

We did this last Christmas Eve service. I had read something similar, Christian, and we did a whole lesson on that on Christmas Eve about God as a provider, and the different ways he provides, which are, you know, so unique, and there are things you wouldn't count on, you wouldn't plan on, I mean, who would plan on that, right? I mean, they were down because they were doing a census, is the reason they were in Bethland to begin with when they have Jesus there, and then all of a sudden these guys show up within the first two years, and remember by now they're in a house, but, and then show up with these gifts,

Yeah, because they escape into Egypt as a way of escape, because this particular area as Dr. Calvert points out was not under the occupation or the jurisdiction of here, so this was a place they could go to to get away from the threat that here it would pose to them, and it's interesting how God does that, because you can look at it on one level, and it seems to be like a pragmatic decision.

“Of course, they would go to Egypt. Great move, great point, but it also has a double purpose to serve in fulfilling the prophecy of Jose 111, this is the God said I'm going to call my son out of Egypt.”

So you see prophecy fulfilled through Joseph's actions to take his family, for protection purposes, but it has a dual purpose, one, the Odyssey, sustaining the life of Christ, of the Christ, but also to fulfill the prophecy, and you actually see that in a lot of prophetic fulfillment. You see, it's like anchored in history. It really encourages me because again, it gives a lot more texture to the Christian faith as not something we're just leaping into, but something that is actually rooted in reality itself.

“We want you to take the courses with us on a shame for Hillsdale.com is where you go to do that. Yeah, and Zach, I think it's also historical irony as well on fulfilling that prophecy that God would call his people out of Egypt.”

In the beginning out of that slavery and out here, Jesus goes back into Egypt and comes out and he now brings all men out of slavery in the sense of slave to sin and so it's just, you know, God always knows how to type what we would call the loose ends of things, but from his perspective it's always part of his plan.

I wanted to shift in this idea, but he mentioned three pictures of the incarnate God, which were very powerful, I thought, and I agreed with him.

He mentions his baptism, which you can read about in Matthew three, 13 through 17, when you see the Trinity in its glory, you know, in that moment because you have the son and then you have the father's voice and then you have this image of the Holy Spirit as a dove.

“So in that, you get that physical picture, so much so that John, the Baptist who was there with him, obviously in baptism says in John 129, when he sees him after the baptism looked the Lamb of God, who comes to save the world.”

So he recognized it and knew it in that moment because of the baptism and any mentions the temptation, which is in the next chapter of Matthew 4, where you see literally God and Satan in this sort of duel, because Satan is trying to, you know, attack the human Jesus, you know, the son of man in these different ways, but the son of God emerges as a dove.

He emerges as victorious because he doesn't give in, which I thought was great, and any mentions the transfiguration, which is the third one, and you can read about that in Mark 9.

And that was the idea that the apostles, Peter James and John got this little glimpse of like a glorified Jesus, and they also got a little glimpse of Moses and Elijah in the same moment about what it was going to look like in this glorified form. So I just thought those were three great examples. We sort of hang your hat on all three of those, the idea about Jesus saying who he was, and then getting to see that in the moment of his life, which is very powerful.

You know, when Jesus enters in, in the same, you know, he's coming in to a world that is ruled by the Roman Empire, which at that time, I mean, would be like, I mean,

it would be more powerful than America as today, I would imagine, and I could all think it's considered, like if you look at its influence globally, and it was the global dominant power, it was so far above any other power in the world that it was, I mean, we're talking about the world Jesus is coming into as a very humble entrance through a very humble entrance, he's coming in, I mean, this is big, this is big league politics here, and the fact that he had that big of a threat, which is ultimately, you know, we got him killed, but what's funny about it is is that he's killed under Roman occupation and rule.

The irony of it is that it was actually Rome, and that Maxi brought the Christ to the rest of the world, and Dr. Calvert points this out in the lecture, I thought that was, again, so fascinating how God's providence in things he so often operates in a way that what you think is actually failure ends up being the very mechanism of success and God's economy. I mean, I mean, even if I could lead into the last lecture, what seemed to be like, okay, it looks like Nero won, but no, he didn't win, and in the same thing happening here, every time you think that the death ensues and death is going to have its victory, you're like, no, Christ is ultimately going to be victorious.

You see that happen here through Christ, his death bear in resurrection. Yeah, I thought one of his points he made, I've never thought about this when he was talking about the Pharisees and Sadducees and how, you know, obviously Jesus was a threat to them, theologically and politically, but the idea of them being exiled from the promised land.

“I've always just thought about, you know, just the division between Rome and the Jews, but I've never thought about there being that fear of them being exiled from the promised land. Have you all thought about that?”

I've never heard that before. That interests me too, because that was one of the big ironies of the whole story is that the Sanhedrin giving Jesus to Rome to be killed and crucifying him ended up causing one of the causes that eventually led to the fall of Jerusalem in '87 and the Jews being kicked out of Israel again.

Like had that have not happened in Christianity have not spread the way it did 40 years ago at the crucifix of Jesus, things may have turned out differently for the Jews down the right.

Well, yeah, I want to read this text from John 11, which backs that point up exactly what you said Christian, whenever this is Jesus is just raised lasers from the dead, and so now I mean now like the following is really starting to make a huge impact and we're sort of, you know, now nearing towards his death. And so there's this plot that comes up and the Pharisees get together and they say, "What are we accomplishing?" Here is this man performing many miraculous signs. If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him and then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.

And so that's that threat to the land and the people and then one of the name coffas who was high priest that you're spoke up, you know nothing at all, you do not realize that this is better for you than one that one man died for the people than the whole nation parish. And that went up being a prophetic word because he would die for the nation, but he would also die for the whole world. And so I think in that in that threat and then the idea of why they were applied to the code Jesus is the idea about what you were mentioning Christian that there was this great fear.

Because in which is why I think Dr. Howard had gone back and talked about the two different exiles because that was the fear we're going to lose our place, you know, and this has been given us by God what they didn't realize was the only reason it was given to them was to be the birthplace for Jesus. The Messiah, the whole point was right in front of them, but they were missing it and coffas made this prophecy to kill Jesus which they ultimately did, what he didn't realize is in the doing of that he provided then the king and the way out for them and that wouldn't be just one place owner.

“And I think this is what a lot of people missed today in Zach, we talk about a lot on the other podcast on the regular unashamed podcast is the people are still mystified about the place.”

And we're like it's much bigger than the place now is the person it's not the physical temple so we're still trying to you know, teach our way through that in the idea and it still gets missed.

Once you take the course with us unashamed for Hillsdale.com is where you do that.

“Well, when you look at the stoning of Stephen, I'm trying to find this line here.”

This is what Stephen said as he said, it was Solomon who built the house for him speaking of the first temple.

Yet the most high does not dwell in houses made by hands as the prophet says heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool.

And so when they kill Stephen it says that the accusation that they brought against him was that he was speaking I think it says he was speaking against this place let me find that real quick.

So this is actually a backup in an act chapter six and says this man never ceases to speak words against this holy place and the law for we have heard him say that Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and will change the customs of Moses delivered to us. So that that really is is that fear and it's why they you see it that's why they arrest Stephen that's why they sees him and ultimately kill him because they say he's talking about the place and he's he's he's going to he's threatening the the law Moses.

“So you actually see that later on in in the gospels even I'm sorry you see that later on in the history of the church.”

It's a it's an obsession with the place but I just want to remind everybody to and this is it this scriptures mentioned in the course of John the apostle John and John let's see here.

John 18 when Jesus talks about his kingdom what he says is he says my kingdom is not of this world. He says that in the world he says that of this world if my kingdom or of this world my servants would have been fighting that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world then pilot said to him so you are king and Jesus answers you're right I am a king. But the way that Jesus's kingship rolls it rolls in the kingdom that you can't actually identify with a place that's that's that's the big shift of what's happening through the life of crisis at the new type of kingdom that he's establishing here.

So you just brought up pilot and I thought it was cool he did a cool history account on kind of at the time when when Jesus was trapped by pilot that he had been under some fire.

“I think he mentioned like Samaritan's that there's like a revolt that pilot was kind of in charge of and so I'd never known the history of the time for him when pilot you know a lot of Jesus to be crucified.”

But just some different historical things that were happening and that pilot was kind of responsible for and he kind of felt that pull of you know the Jewish and the Roman.

But I never heard those facts about pilot I thought that was really interesting.

And you're right because it helps to know that because even the pilot was a part of the you know when the emperor the the emperor that was was killed before or know the emperor was threatened and then but his his pilot's guy that put him in power was the guy that had threatened the emperor and then that was stamped out so that tells you a lot about the man in terms of now he's in charge of this area about why he was so.

“The decisive about what to do about the situation because he had so much personally on the line for his position and it was really because you know he we see this wrestling match with pilot right and then even his wife.”

You know it's like send him messages is like I've had dreams about this guy don't do not kill this guy whatever you do. And yet he feels like he's just pressed into this position instead of being the the true leader of the which he should have been because he was the representative of Roman power he instead was led by the other forces. I think it's back to what's that you were talking about earlier this idea it seems like it's an unwinnable situation but it was all planned anyway me Jesus came to give his life and so it's like how do you win by surrender what Jesus shows is that what nobody knew of course is that he would be raised from the dead except for Jesus.

He said that he said you know you you'll you'll I'll give my life but trust me I'll be back and so therefore victory was by surrender and so when we look at our own lives we said well how do we have victory and surrender. But that's exactly what we do we surrender our lives and then we find victorious resurrection and I love the fact that he made the point that the cross was more than just justification it was also about transformation. We used the illustration Dr. Howard did of the woman simple woman that was you know the Jesus all the people were ready to stoner and he said well okay the first one of you without saying you go ahead and start and then they all walk away but instead of just leaving the woman in the state of laying there feeling like she dodged a bullet he says go and send no more it's not about just being saved it's about being transformed and and I love that he brought that out because that's the power of the gospel that Christ would love us.

He has to he has to transform us into something that looks like him and so that's the beauty of you know submission and surrender that then leads to victory and overcome in the world.

“And what he looks like specifically is exemplified in the cross it's the cruciform life so if you think about the three power structures that play here actually there's four.”

You know you have Pontius pilot representing the Roman Empire the dynamic there's obvious right he like you just beautifully articulated that he's thinking man I got a main team my governor ship here you know I mean like he's a political figure like I'm in charge of this whole thing. So when he interviews Jesus and Jesus is like what my kingdom's out of this world he's like oh fine well great well we're all good. He's ready to let him go. But but but he's he's still fearful over his power that he's going to lose it and the reason why he makes a decision because the other two power parties which is the the Pharisees in the saggy siege which make up the Sanhedrin and so they're like no no that we're not good with that and so when pilot gives into them.

He is it's not like he he still is doing it as a political move to maintain his his power and with the saggy siege in the Pharisees they both are at odds of one another.

The saggy siege are political rivals of the Pharisees but they can join together against the Roman Empire because they're both enemies of the Roman Empire at least in their minds right and then and then so they're all jocky and proposition and control and who's going to be the one to have the power so this is like game of thrones this is like the game risk this is like strategy and and politics and how are we going to pull this off. And then you have the fourth power structure which is Jesus who has all authority on heaven and earth who is God incarnate who spoke the world into existence and his play is simply to yield his life and to put his life into the hands of these people.

“He like he said he says nobody takes my life. I willingly lay it down and I think that in that that right there that's that's the thing that we're safe to like he's redefining what power actually is.”

He's the only one who doesn't have to fight for power everybody else is trying to fight for it and he's and they're trying to take it and he's the one that's giving it away he's the one that is laying it down and ultimately that's going to cost him this life and they're going to murdering. On a on a Roman cross to add to that I think there's there's another power struggle which is the angelic and demonic forces the whole spiritual battle for the kingdom and for earth going on above and beyond all of this as well.

Because I mean if you've got I think palates wife having dreams for example is a good example that something in the spiritual world was also happening to either calls this or stop it from both sides you've had the guys with demons you've got people being raised to that you've got other false prophet like you've got a ton of spiritual stuff going on here behind the scenes that.

We are just we just get like glimpses of in these like kind of little one off statements of a dream they are miracle they are my person there but there's a.

Later when Paul says you know our our battle is not a flesh and blood put the mac force of the world like there's also this whole another layer of politics going on.

“And to your point John the whenever you remember Paul said I think was in person it is that if the rulers had known.”

You know they would have never done it because obviously you know that they were being fed this false information by these demonic forces and by evil and ultimately was to their own demise I was thinking about it. Is that when you were mentioned in the powers you know punches pilot. Basically disappear knows but nobody sure what happened to it I mean he just he would he left it just you know it was it was over for him you never heard anything else about it. She's been a lot of rumors about you know what happened to him but he was gone you had hair and to power which was the you know pilot tried to pawn Jesus off to maybe something would happen there but you may have all he wanted was some miracles so I mean he was so.

I mean he was on powerful that all he wanted was some magic tricks and then he sent him right back and so he was a non factor where he we know from ax 12 that he gets worms and dies you know he gets eaten by worms inside out.

How about those other entities and so again it's just as you pointed out in the last podcast I can and even in this one it is rooted in all of our human history this is not just fairytale it's not myth this is not something we hope happened it's something that did happen and that's why we're still here and that's why we're still being transformed by all these years later it's real.

“So the reason why we're still talking about it today and the reason why I didn't die off is because it didn't die off.”

I mean Christ was resurrected from the dead that the body came out of the grave the tomb was rolled away and Christ ascended I mean think about that I mean Christ was post resurrection was on the earth for 40 days.

It's not like some guy goes in the cave and gets a vision from God and then tells the rest of us about it.

He appeared to more than 500 people you know the apostle Paul says that in 1 Corinthians 15 and you think about what an apologetic for God's existence and the resurrection of Christ I mean if this thing was made up. Then why would Paul say he appeared to 500 people most of whom are still alive today Paul says I mean you wouldn't say that because if you once you put that out there that all I'm going to if I'm if I know Paul guess what I'm going to ask Paul. You're giving yourself too many ways to think the ship of this of this conspiracy that you built the fact that he appeared to 500 people Paul said most of whom were alive when he wrote that letter to the Corinthian church.

I think it was written within 14 to 16 months after the resurrection or at least he received that gospel within 14 to 16 months of the resurrection of Christ is just incredible.

“So he walks on the earth for 40 days and then Christ ascends and I think that ascension part is key to the whole thing and he mentions it.”

He says that the plaitness and the Greek philosophers couldn't understand how flesh and blood could enter into the heavenly realm.

But they didn't have a category for that because why the flesh is bad not the flesh of Christ the Christ never sinned.

He didn't sin one time he took on sin but he'd never sin and so he lived a perfect life and so now Christ being the atoning sacrifice of his own body. He also became high priest to court to the Hebrew writer and then Christ has high priest who has made perfect to his suffering. He takes the atoning sacrifice into the true tabernacle, the true temple which is in the heavenly realm.

Christ enters in to the true holy of Holies the final yam Kapoor and he makes atonement for the sins of the people once and for all.

And that's why when he was on that cross he said it's finished. And I just love that idea of our God becoming flesh fulfilling the sacrifice and then taking that into that throne room and paying for it and presenting it once and for all.

“And that's why I think that we're still talking about it some here 2000 years later.”

Well that's a perfect way to end, we're out of time. Yeah, thank you guys on a shame nation for going on this journey with us and so we want you to be sure and go to on a shame for Hillsdale dot com if you haven't yet. And and take the courses with us get the certificate. Send us that certificate and it may be will be the lucky winner to get to come and spend some time with us in West Monroe. So we'll see you next time on on a shame for Hillsdale.

Join us every Friday for unashamed academy powered by Hillsdale college make sure to go to unashamed for Hillsdale dot com and sign up. It's no cost to you that's unashamed for Hillsdale dot com and don't miss an episode of the unashamed pie cast by subscribing on youtube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.