How Iron Man Saved Marvel: David Maisel Shares the Real Story with Sean Callagy

In fact, I didn't get the yes.

They had five million the bank, and David's talking here has been a hundred million.

For a guy that doesn't like spending money.

“Nobody wanted Thor or Captain America, or this thing called Avengers, you know?”

People would tell me Thor is in the public domain, you know, if we don't need you for that. Or Avengers means some UK English spy series. They could have spent a hundred thousand in Blocked Us from having iron there, right? I don't make money unless you make money, so give me stock options and market. And then the clothes that I said, and you can fire me at any time, whatever reason, no penalty.

I announced Marvel Studios CMBC in 2004, and our stock went down for four years. With Iron Man, we made it a love story with 10 minutes of action.

“I think that's what Warner Brothers missed.”

Is they saw a guy in a robot suit, over they saw a robot suit, they didn't see the man inside the suit. The guy who's got the drug problem that woke up at his neighbors like childhood orders room, and was a jail. This is Iron Man, who's a comedian on top of it, not an action star. If we could welcome back to the unblinded stage for the second time, the founder of Marvel Studios, the creator of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the one and only let's rise to our feet, and welcome David Mazeel.

What's here for David, I'm there, I'm there, I'm there, I'm there, I have the honor and privilege. I'm the privilege of now calling a friend, so thank you, sir. I'm much, perhaps, literally. Thank you, thank you. My friend.

He even knows what drinks that tank and Bella and Mike like starblocks, and it's always ready in his incredible studio and home and plays some things.

“David, welcome back for the great signature as he really is an honor to be here, and so what are you doing today, brother?”

I'm doing great, it's a pleasure to be back, Sean, it's, last time we did this, was back in October, right? So it's been almost six months, and so much has happened, I know, with everything you're doing, and things that I'm up to, and you, Sean, was the first public speech that I ever did since Selling Marvel. I resisted doing that, and doing it with Sean and him making me feel so welcome and understanding the story and the interesting things to talk about and seeing the joy and everybody. Hearing where Marvel came from, it brought me a lot of joy, so I'm, so happy to be back, you know, doing this and you sort of gave birth to a new side hustle for me, which is, if I was doing, happy to have David back, say yes.

And so, and this side hustle recently took you to some far away parts of the globe, which is pretty interesting people. It's the most notable one was the Saudi government, has a conference called FII, which is their big investor conference, and there's one in the states, and there's one in Europe. And they asked me to speak at their Miami event, which was about a month ago, five or six weeks ago, and it's, you know, it's the Royal Family, it's a lot of dignitaries that attend, you know, if there's capital like that, many people surface.

And that's surprisingly, and, and so I got there and they had me the last day at the end of the conference, which is normally not where you want to be, because everyone's flying out to their next thing. And so I said, you know, maybe I'll go the first day instead, so people can talk to me in the hallways and things, and they said, "No, no, stay at the last day, there's a surprise." And what the surprise was, is they announced that President Trump was going to close the conference. So what that meant is him speaking at five, that everyone had to be in their seats and through security at three, and once they announced he's speaking, other people even showed up, and I was in one of five speakers right before him.

And it was a group that was amazing. It was David Ellison who just bought Warner Brothers with his father for close to a hundred billion.

So what I thought was going to be a casual fun talk became this very different formal talk. Only for about 20 minutes about creating new mythologies, whether there could be a new world-wide mythology in today's age, was the question that they wanted me to address.

“And so that was a great experience. It went well enough where I was invited to speak in June at their FII Europe, which is in Rome this year.”

Yeah. How about let's hear for that? And so it is an honor to have had you here and to be a small, tiny, salt particle in that journey of your impact in speaking to you.

Coach Galgi. Thank you. Thank you, my brother. And so I would love to talk to you for 40 hours. We've had the privilege of spending real time together. And this man is such a master. He is so brilliant. And that doesn't feel appropriately described him. What is he masterful at? So many things.

“But the dynamic of innovation, optimization, presence, storytelling, the understanding, his level of life, the listening of people is remarkable.”

And so, and his friends that make great pizza. So this like private room and pizza at home, you know, out there has been truly delightful. And what I'd love you to comment on David because we're going later tonight.

And of course, there's the amazing, like diverse political viewpoints. And we are very, you know, spoken into all that to degree and we'll finish. So, not from political perspective.

But how did you enjoy going to see the response theme on this tour? Because a bunch of folks will be there with us tonight. And you're in for a treat. I would say this, that I've seen him not as much as Michael here 25 times, but probably close to 20. And this was my favorite concert of all.

“And I think it was because he sort of grown into it's the same Bruce voice. You would never know he's 77 or whatever his ages.”

But he has become even more strong, like, and powerful in how he presents the songs. Clarence isn't there, but the band is amazing. And the saxophonist is incredible. I think it might be someone that clearance picked to replace his nephew. His nephew. Okay. I could see that. And, you know, all of Bruce's messages are as timely as ever today. As they were back in the 70s and 80s. So, it's just resonated so much more. It's a special concert. And he didn't have to do this concert. He announced it.

Well, you know, what, maybe two month tour, basically, because he really wanted to do it. And he can feel it.

And we do share, and, you know, I don't want to consume a lot of our time at this David. But what, whether or not I agree with everything Bruce is saying, some of it, much of it, all of it. And we're how he's saying it, what we advocate for so strongly in this space, and certainly on the Sean Caledna by the podcast, is for people's freedom to articulate what they believe in. And Bruce does it so utterly masterfully. And there's so many things. And I'm curious to see the reactions of the folks here tonight or certification partners that are joining us, and how even if they disagree with where he stands politically, how can they appreciate his mastery in articulating what he believes in.

And how attractive, how unifying, I'm really curious, because there, you know, again, folks on all. Yeah, the thing I say to that is he, you'll hear him tonight, but the things he talks about are not really political. They're common shared values of being an American. So things like intelligence and common sense and empathy, you know, things that shouldn't be politicized. They should just be traits that we all try to live in our lives, as best as we can, and what America stands for around the world a bit.

You know, so as you said, when there's difference of opinions on details and on policies and things like that, they're normally is a unifying agreement on trying to make everyone's life here better and safer.

And finding that shared agreement is so, and it's true in negotiations and building a business.

There's always people who don't see your vision or they disagree with it, even.

And instead of walking away, you find that point of shared thoughts or shared assumptions. And normally, once that gets that level, the connection becomes closer. And it doesn't always work, but it can sometimes, you know, work to whatever you're trying to achieve in that business transaction or what you need from somebody to get a yes. So, amen to that, brother. And we always honor source here, so.

“And I think this is a great transition into, you know, a next section and the beginning, but the meaningful work that you did with Marvel before I do, which one on our Dan Fleischman.”

Here, we don't know each other without Dan, and Mike Vassuvio for being such an amazing friend and co-creator and all the others.

So, thank you. Let's hear for Dan and Mike. Just for a second. And then, so as you're sharing this, what really landed for me in our discussion of Bruce is how it's not not what you had to begin to think about when you stepped into the world of Marvel. And I believe, from wrong, that they were, Marvel was selling 5,000 Iron Man Comics per month. Just think of what, if you would have thought the number of Marvel was selling per month of Iron Man, when the Iron Man, before the Iron Man movies are made, but just a few years before, a few to photos a lot more than 5,000 comics a month, say yes.

And me too, I would have, somebody asked me, "Hey, how many Iron Man comics a month, do you think Marvel was selling?"

I don't know, my gut reaction, I've been 100,000 a month, or something like that. So, the only thing that reached that level back then was X-Men and Spider-Man.

Because of the movie. So, you have this property, this ecosystem of 5,000 a month. So, obviously, if people reading Iron Man comics monthly, they have a pretty deep love Iron Man and a pretty clear perspective on what Iron Man should be to them.

“And now you're going to decide what movie to make, and you're stepping in, and you have to build something for Marvel. How do you select Iron Man?”

How do you take something that only 5,000 people per month are reading, take this to make money, honor these folks, not make them enemies. So, and I know we told a lot of this story before, but maybe let's start there, you know, or half a step back from there. This is your job now, you're being brought in, you have an idea, or it's about to be your job, please name it, take us back. And I'll start with the point where there was a whole process that Sean and I discussed last time of where the idea came for the MCU.

Now the word universe in a Medicare universe is used a lot, and but that didn't exist back then, you know, and the studios made the movies, and if you owned IP, you licensed it to the studios, and they would spend the 200 million to make the movie, and they'd have full creative control, and they'd keep an ID 8% of the profits. I just like make sure this is landing for everybody, so David, am I hearing you correctly? That what would happen is, and this was Spider-Man. Yes, Spider-Man to Sony. And I guess men to Fox.

Yeah, and I guess this X-Men to Fox, and this would have also been on the DC side, this would have been the original Batman movie. I mean, DC wasn't making the Batman movie on my correct or not correct. DC in dark light trilogy, they did make the movie.

“I'm going back to Michael Keaton, the original movie, was that a license?”

No, no, because Warner Brothers owns DC. Got it, I don't know. So they were now Marvel, I sold the Disney, so it's similar to where DC was with Warner Brothers. The capabilities and capital were there. So with Marvel though, at that point, they're licensing out X-Men, they're licensing out Spider-Man,

and what they were saying is they were going to make relatively little money after all the things,

Exactly, and because they would license to different studios,

“those properties were siloed in each of those studios, so you couldn't bring the characters together”

and create an Avengers movie, or create a connected universe. And so the big vision was, as a Marvel fan, and as somebody who wanted to make big movies and somebody who wanted them to make money, that the way to do it would be to get the rights back as much as possible. Take the characters that have not been licensed, at that time nobody wanted Thor or Captain America, or this thing called Avengers.

People would tell me Thor is in the public domain, we don't need you for that. Or Avengers means some UK English spy series, they didn't quite get it. And so that was great because I had those properties to work with. Iron Man was actually at Warner Brothers for about $89 years, as a licensed deal,

“for like $50,000 they paid, and they never thought it was worthy to make it into a movie.”

And they didn't see it, people asked me about that, but they just let it sit there. So eventually they let the rights run out, even after I announced Marvel Studios, they could have spent $100,000 in blocked us from having Iron Man. They could have, you know, sometimes you want to play offense, sometimes you want to play defense. And if they had put on their defense hat for a while, they might think,

"Oh, I don't really want to make an Iron Man movie, but we'll delay David from having it for five years or ten years." And that would have been a smart chess movie for them. But the luckily they didn't, and got it back. And then, you know, the idea of a comic book company, making $100,000,000 plus movie, was heresy at the time, was no one did that.

And frankly, they don't still, like Barbie is owned by Mattel, but they license it to Warner Brothers. So they didn't get much profit from the movie. They got, you know, they got toy sales. Maybe a higher degree of Barbie sales that year, or afterwards. In the same way we get higher Spiderman toy sales after Sony movie.

But the zero-base thinking, which took a lot of work and studying, you know, up into when I was 32 at this time. So, you know, school and graduate school, and almost eight, nine years of working and consulting, and then in Hollywood at the studio, Disney, and the talent agency is soaking up information.

To get the inspiration, finally, to, which was over a weekend, that way, wow,

if Marvel controlled its characters, it's a natural universe. You get to know the characters, you want to see them in every movie, you want to stay involved with the plot. So if one movie works, like Iron Man, instead of just two sequels, like most films, there's a hundred sequels or quasi sequels. And that asymmetrical risk reward was incredibly attractive as a business. And incredibly, the idea of connecting the characters as a fan was incredibly attractive as a creative thing to do.

“And that all went into convincing a man named Mike Pro-Mutter to at least give me a shot, right?”

At coming into Marvel, which was the hardest yes I've ever gotten, right? In fact, I didn't get the yes. In fact, my meeting, you contextualize who is Ike. Ike Pro-Mutter at the time was already a billionaire. He's a tough Israeli guy from the Masad War in '67, but he was a turnaround guy.

He had famously bought Remington when it was bankrupt and turned it around, things like that.

And he acquired Marvel in 1999 out of bankruptcy court for like $30 million, right?

So he had good vision on that, but he really cared about selling toys. And he doesn't like to spend money. And he's a very difficult guy to work with, but he and I fortunately have a great relationship. And it helps when you make somebody a lot of money. But it was a lot to get there.

In fact, once I had the inspiration for Marvel doing its movies, it was just so acquired for $30 million, and then he took a public again.

On the back of the Spider-Man license and things like that.

So $30 million to $100 million mark a cap, and then sold to Disney for $4 billion.

Yeah, really $10 million with the stock. $10 billion. $4 billion. You're a fanat. So though I did speak to Bob Ager last week, and I introduced a friend to him.

Do you guys know Bob Ager is? Yeah, who's Ager? He's the CEO of Disney. And he was actually my boss back in '96, '97, so I knew him well. And I love Disney.

Not as much as Shawn but close to Shawn. And I do love Disney. And so when I decided to sell Marvel, now we're fast forwarding. I didn't shop it to any other studio. I just went right to Bob had a secret meeting with him.

And within an hour we came up with a deal. And because he gave us stock, legally we were public company.

“You have to shop it to get the best price for shareholders.”

But what I learned is if you have something that's subjectively valued. Like stock, the board can make a decision that that's the best thing to do. And having worked at Disney, I knew the stock at $25 was severely undervalued. And that it was at least a double when the economy recovered in 2010. Now it's, you know, it's plateaued for the last 10 years.

But it reached 200, now it's at like 110. So there was an arbitrage there too. And it also allowed Ike to be liquid where he was a liquid. He owned 60% of Marvel, the public company. But all that being said, the funny story I was going to tell is I was at a museum gallery.

And I introduced a friend of mine to Bob and I said, this is the man I sold my company to. And he said, well, actually I stole it. I was like, geez, you don't have to say that. But I mean, just to let this land for a second. Company, quite out of bankruptcy for 30 million got to 100 million market cap.

And then sold for 10 billion. Like that is innovative, optimized, value, multiplication. And in the beginning, how crazy did everybody think you were? You know, we had a story of Walt Disney and Disney's finally making us know why. And then Disney's crazy to build Disneyland.

But people called you crazy as well. Yeah, and it's hard to fathom that now because it seems obvious, right? With Marvel looking back. But the only reason I got the chance to do this in retrospect is that it wasn't because of my resume at the time.

I never made a movie before.

I was smart, had a good... Imagine selling this. Yeah, I'm a Harvard MBA. I've never made a movie before.

“But now I think you should create like marble studios.”

And I've never created a studio either. So I've never made a movie. I've never created a studio. And I've never raised money. Never raised money.

And I hear this extremely masterful, difficult person who doesn't like to spend money. But let's go build a studio. And then exactly. And so he actually, my meeting with Ike, funny enough, was at Mara Logo in 2003. And Ike was and still is one of President Trump's two or three best friends, social friends.

And I went to meet have lunch with Ike, but a third person joined us for two hours, which was Donald Trump. And the reason he joined at the time wasn't, was purely because he was about to do apprentice. And enter the Hollywood world. And he knew Ike had some young kid coming talking about Hollywood.

And so it was a pretty amazing lunch.

And it was going nowhere. I pitched this. It was going nowhere. You know, I didn't quite understand the perspective which is so important to get a yes of where the person is coming from and their values. And what their trigger points could be.

I kept saying things that were repulsive, Ike. You're going to spend money. You're going to spend a hundred million, even though you only have five million in the bank account. And this is, right, we're in the world of yes-causing, which is the cause of innovation optimization. They had five million in the bank.

And David is talking, you're going to spend a hundred million. For a guy that doesn't like spending money.

“Yes, please, you know, you have to use both sides of the paper, you know, and reuse your paper clips.”

And doesn't like risk.

So anyways, it's, but, you know, understanding your partner, understanding the person is so important in social, in your personal life and in business life.

“And I, I, I, I, not realized it wasn't very public at that point about Ike's become much more known figure,”

because he became the second biggest owner of Disney, and because of his friendship now at President Trump.

But the, so it was going nowhere, and in fact, I was going backwards, you know, and I get talking about Hollywood, which rightfully nobody should trust. Right? Because you messed in Hollywood, your money's normally gone. And there's games, and there's a lot of people there with egos and a little bit of narcissistic type of attitudes. It's, it's definitely a strange town, and so here comes a Hollywood person pitching on on risking money. It was just, really not going anywhere.

What I realized is luckily that I was dead in the water, so I threw out one last offer that he couldn't say no to and Trump was witness to this. And to this is a crazy story. If you like this is a crazy story, so yes. Like, if you've seen a Marvel movie, say yes. If he doesn't get the yes, there's no MCU.

Yeah, there's no MCU. Yeah. There's no Avengers, because he would have licensed the properties out over the next six months or a year. And those deals are in perpetuity, unless the other party volunteers to give it back. So I said, listen, just bear me. If you've been a Disney Florida, there are no Marvel characters.

But there are in California, because Marvel licensed the characters to Universal. Yes. East of the Mississippi. You got it. And so it's on as the best memory of anyone I've ever met.

No, thank you. And so yeah, so when we went to Disneyland, Florida, and she actually noticed this. So we were in, I'm sorry, Disneyland California. And we saw Spider-Man. And she actually loved Spider-Man.

And we went this time to Disney World. Yes. And her cousin is a crazy Spider-Man fan. He was coming. And she's like, Kevin's so excited to see Spider-Man.

I said, well, honey, he's not in Disney World, Florida. And she's like, why? He's in Disneyland in the California. And so I began to discuss with my four year, 11 month and 30 day old, the day before a birthday, daughter licensing deals between studios.

But yes, back to you. And it's even worse because Universal's theme park right next to Disney World has it in Orlando. And so every time now Disney makes a Marvel movie, they're making people want to go to their competitors theme park. It's a weird thing. Yeah, and so what I said like is hire me, give me a chance to show you what I can do.

I know he doesn't, at that point, I picked up. He doesn't want to pay money for things. So I said, pay me a very small salary just so I can pay my rent. And I don't make money unless you make money. So give me stock options and market.

And then the clothes that I said, and you can fire me at any time, whatever reason, no penalty. So none of this for cause, not for cause. It was literally to the States as I couldn't say no to that. I had a free option to look at you. And I don't pay you unless you make me more wealthy.

And I can fire you.

“So that's how I got in and he almost fired me at least eight times six years.”

And I was pretty surprised.

How soon was the first one?

Like so you started? Probably within a month. Was it paper clips and paper? No, it would be. It would be my passion and tenacity.

And him wanting me to do have other priorities in the company than the studio. And which for the first year, I took seriously. And you know, realize I had to sort of earn my stripes. My board of directors was a bunch of 70 and 80 year old turnaround guys. You know, bankruptcy guys.

And then.

“But I remember every board meeting I would braze the studio.”

And the second time I was got fired when I was told.

Unless we have zero risk in all the upside, which doesn't normally happen in business. So that was and then I screwed for a year to luckily there was a bond bubble in 2004.

And so I got to deal with a for 525 million of debt financing.

So we kept all the equity. That's unbelievable. Without with that great terms that I and the board can say no to. Non-recourse. No collateral.

Now to speak up. So we love movies. We love the power of story.

“But what you're hearing from David right now is how critically important it is.”

Understand money and value. Yeah. And the innovative. Mastery of all the different ways to share and look at value. Mm-hmm.

And if we're uncomfortable at. These diverse. Areas of mastery. We're not going to achieve the things which is as a footnote for everybody. If that's not your mastery.

You're not David. You're not not only Harvard MBA. Harvard MBA, Harvard MBA, Harvard. I'm sure taught David some things. But this is a man who developed the muscle, the skill of discerning value.

Being creative which you're going to ask some questions about how why.

“But while it's not David yet in your pocket.”

Athena. Everybody out here. You can certainly masterfully up level where you are to begin to think of like, if I was David Mayzell. And I'm looking at this thing through the prison of marvel.

What are 10 different ways? I could assess this ecosystem merger to create unique shares of value. If these people don't want to write a check and I really want this to happen. Or if they should write a check and they're not seeing it. How can we communicate about it?

Use the tools that way. Is that landing? If it is, say yes. Okay. So, yeah, back to you David.

What I'd love to get to in a few minutes of your mind is a powerful question about all of this.

I'd love you to finish this point. Yeah. But about how much you might be undervaluing, undervaluing yourself and some of this. Because something dawned on me. And let me go to and then we can go back if we need to.

It's this. So, you took this property. This, what you saw to be a potential cinematic universe. But I wonder. And has anybody ever asked this question.

“Could you have taken any number of properties in this?”

Like, how much of this was your mastery as visionary of the complete cinematic universe? And what you then did once you made that decision. Like, we're going to take this and make it a cinematic universe because Tony Stark and the Iron Man comics wasn't Robert Downey Jr. You did that.

And I didn't think the last time we spoke and I had Robert and Robert. And Robert and you know, pepper wasn't when a palcho. Right. And so, and I know you're an incredibly humble man. And I think you're at times a falsely modest man.

Me, you diminish your accomplishments. But it just dawned on me. Yeah. Like, that was really interesting. But it was so interesting that it was in bankruptcy.

The Marvel. And Sean knows there's an article right outside my office from the New York Times in 2007. And the year before Iron Man came out talking about all the reasons Marvel Studios would fail. And so I leave that right by my office to remind me of that era. In fact, I announced Marvel Studios on CNBC in 2004 and our stock went down for four years.

And how long? How long? How long? Yes. And it was worse for me because, as I mentioned, all my upside was stock options that were now under market for four years.

But you know, I can talk about this.

And once I started showing what I could do, and he got confidence, he ended up buying back a third of the company.

And he had that cheap price, which was very valuable when we sold it to Disney.

You know, having faith in situation, instead of getting depressed if your stock goes down. If you really believe in the fundamentals of an investment, that's a time like Warren Buffett would say, "Where you buy it on sale, you know, from where it was." And so we bought back Marvel stock on sale.

“But to your question, it's a really good one, Shawna, and I think I don't believe any group of IP,”

no matter how talented the producer or the vision areas can become what Marvel became, a cinematic universe. There's elements that need to be in it. And I like to combine analytics with creativity. And this is important point because in my specter of Hollywood, you as a Harvard MBA, you are viewed as the suit as the business. And if you talk creative, you're out of your arena.

And if you're a creative person, then you talk about business, you're like diminishing your creative magic that people might trust in you.

I love both, and I was known because I came with my Harvard MBA and I got my first job because of that with my COVID's as that guy, right?

The business guy. In fact, when I was at Disney, I was with Kevin Mayer, our mutual friend and corporate development in the strategic planning, right?

“And I knew that creatively was merely where I passion was, and the only way I could do both analytics and creative was to have my own studio and make myself chairman.”

So the reason I had the thought to do Marvel Studios was I wanted to solve that puzzle. And then secondly, I knew I could try to become studio chairman, and there are the only people that can be whatever they want to do because they're the boss. And I could work my way up one of the six studios, but that would take 20 years and more importantly, I would have lost my soul. I would have had to become a different person. And Marvel was a cocoon for me, where I had my, you know, I could play as studio chairman and not change the playfulness and the way I wanted to be personality wise.

So when I think about universes, Marvel, I didn't have to look at the second one because I just instinctively saw, they live in the same universe in the comics.

These characters are so deep in terms of who they are, even outside of being superheroes, that there was, and it was a combination that the movies would be new to most 99% of the world. So they discover it, and discovery is so enjoyable for people. They discover with their friends, with their kids, or their parents. But there's a legacy that it's built on so that people realize, wow, there's like, Robotost to it, and stuff I can geek out on and go into. So it had that great combination of legacy, but still new to people and a natural universe.

You know, after Marvel, I quickly found something else, I thought, could be not a universe, but elevate IP to point that people would be surprised by, and that was with all things Angry Birds. And at the time it was just those dots on the screen and went to the owners and they were about to license. I said, no, no, we'll make it, and they had so much cash from the game that raising money there was easy.

They just had treasury cash to use for about 75 million, and it was fun to invent a mythology.

And everyone thought that movie was going to fail, because in 2016 when it came out, Angry Birds had collapsed in popularity. They didn't navigate going from paid games to free games on the way other competitors did, and the brand wasn't cool anymore. And so that, for me, was gratifying because it was another surprise, and doing it again. But then after 2016, and actually after the sale of Marvel, I got approached with everything.

“You know, Kate, can you help us with this to become a universe?”

And, and said, note everything, because it didn't meet what I really thought it would be. And then I was fortunate, which we can get into later, to find something that James Cameron really loved in my favorite comic book artist, who I collected, and when James Cameron stepped aside, I was able to grab it, and that's all I'm working on now.

It's not as complicated as Elon's spaceships, which, you know, he famously talks to that.

“There's like 20,000 things that have to go right on any space launch, and one of them doesn't throw thing falls apart.”

And, you know, it's not as complicated as that, but to go from the IP to something that's a new worldwide mythology or something that people really love in that deep way, it requires a lot a lot of decisions, and one of them you raised earlier, like, how do you take something that's got dedicated fans and make them happy at the same time, bring it to the world. And so with Iron Man, we made it a love story with 10 minutes of action, and it was like an old fashioned love story, we're, like, from the 50s, we're two people love each other, but they won't admit it, you know, Robert Downey and quit in the Faltrow.

And you're, you're an audience saying, "Kiss already," you know, and they don't.

And adding in humor with letting, I made a decision that had really never been done.

In Hollywood, you freeze a script, you freeze a script before you shoot the movie, because every day an alive action movie is $4,500,000.

“And so if you miss the day, you have to spend another half a million.”

And there's unions, there's rules, and so you don't want, you want people changing dialogue, because that could screw things up. But I left an hour a day in the schedule for Robert to improvise, and I'd say at least half of the comedy in Iron Man came out of him riffing and saying to funny things. It was dangerous, and because once an actor starts doing that, they keep wanting to do that, and you could miss your days unless their lines get taken, you know? So the idea is that, so how, you know, in that frame, you have Iron Man, you have these properties, and you're making a superhero movie that you're trying to love story with 10 minutes of action.

I could only afford 10 minutes as well, than I did easier.

“So, but now in this conversation of innovation optimization, how do you decide to do that?”

You know, what was it, you know, if 100 people look at Iron Man in the comics, they're not a million people look at Iron Man in the comics, they're not making the movie you made.

And this is one of the greatest superhero movies ever made by so many critical reviews, financial success, all of it.

How do you get to them? And again, second, there's a question before that, which is why Iron Man is the first movie. And that was also, I'm proud of as a vision, because a lot of people recommended, you know, you have one shot, and that go with Avengers, go with your biggest commercial property, and not rely on just one superhero, you know, bring everyone together, and some people will like Iron Man, some people like Thor, you know, you attract more people. And forgive me guys, I'm just like one really contextualized. So, what I'm hearing you say, and what you're hearing David say, I believe, is that he opted not to go with the ecosystem at Marvel of Avengers with a hundred thousand people reading monthly, but won't with one five thousand.

And this is landing on me, I can't even imagine the feedback you're getting for that. Oh, we have any debates internally. Yeah, many debates with the board and with my team. But the feeling was, number was best to introduce the characters in their own movies, so that you have two hours to get to know them. Rather than if they're in a two hour movie together, you may be have 15 minutes with each of them really. And so if people fell in love with Tony Stark with Thor, with Captain America, with Hulk, then you bring them together in the Avengers.

There's so much more ties to the customer, and you're giving them something to look forward to. They love the characters individually. The risk with that is if Iron Man failed, we're not sitting here today. So it was easier for me because I knew that my mother, my girlfriend at the time, they would not go see just the regular superhero movie, comics movie. So, but I knew Tony Stark was such an interesting character outside of the suit of armor, and I think that's what Warner Bros. missed is they saw a guy in a robot suit, over they saw a robot suit.

And so we went with Iron Man, and then in making these decisions about how to both show the movie and market the movie and the casting. That's where we talked about instinct and combining with when you're focused on something that you're passionate about, and you don't deviate. Somehow you get so much information because you're looking at everything from the prism of what your goal is, and so when I quit McKinsey and came to Hollywood, all I did for the next six, seven years was think about how to make another star wars.

“And that's what inspired me. And how can I do it in a way that wasn't just three movies at the time, but that could be many many movies. And I would just soak all that information up.”

I was able to do a Broadway show before I did Marvel, and I had a lot of success. I went to Tony Award for Best Musical in 1999 for my first Broadway show.

that we can actually successful movie Angry Birds, and there's like, "Data, that, that, and much more." And one of the things I learned from Broadway is a great medium because you take it on the road outside of New York.

“We went to Boston, we went to Chicago, we went to LA, and you're changing the show every night, and you're seeing audience reaction right away, right?”

And the reviewers have a pact, which I guess isn't legally binding, that they won't review the movie until you say it's opening night in New York.

So even have another month or two in New York to fine tune the show before the powerful reviewers come in.

And I realized halfway through this road trip with the show that the beginning had to be amazing, and the end had to be incredible. So everything in between has to be good, but if they don't feel into it, if you don't open their minds to their experience in the beginning, and if you don't close with something that causes them to literally flee with excitement, that they're leaving the theater, you're missing a huge opportunity.

So when I went into Ironman, I really worked on the first scene in the last scene, and, you know, we have the first scene, he gets blown up, so there's a dramatic thing that happens.

How do you know that? I mean, I couldn't agree more, but how did you know that? It was, it was observation and testing, combined with then thinking through psychology, why that would be the case? And I realized it's the case with everything, you meet somebody new, if the first couple minutes are just persons head down and nothing happening, it's hard to recover from that. And it's always good to end with something, even all of us go into long business meetings and, you know, it could be two hours long or an hour long with somebody and, and it can get into topics and have a different energy flow.

“And then at the end, if you're like full of energy and talking about, you know, referring back to things that they said, showing them that you listened and seeing them as a person and talking about future things, that's what people remember.”

It's experience, testing, trying to understand why, and then trying to, in that creates what sometimes people call instinct. Like when people ask me, why did you have the vision for Marvel? We know when else had it. I don't really, I can't really answer that, but it wasn't just like I sat an ivory tower and the idea popped in my head. I had worked so hard learning the industry and that gave me a better chance to have the vision and, and the, you know, the things that people would say are, are very hard to get.

And then once you have the vision that's an assay to stay with it and make sure you don't get distracted or give it up too soon. I knew people would be walking into Iron Man, I felt thinking another superhero movie, how's this going to be different, you know, who is this Marvel studio is making their own movie. So when we started with ACDC back in black, and that rock and roll was going, and the people just had it, they hadn't heard that before in the beginning of a movie.

And that's just through everyone for a loop, and then we end with Ozzy Osborne, I am Iron Man, and people are dancing out of the theater. And then we gave a post-credits scene, too, with Sam Jackson saying the Avengers Initiative. That was just inspiration that Kevin Feige, my president of production had actually, after we finished shooting, and we had planned it, we had to call all the actors back for half a day and shoot that scene.

“And that was the birth of, which is now common with a lot of films, you know, having some special scene at the end.”

So it's a, it's a, I'm very proud of the vision, and it's been fun to replicate it. Broadway was another sort of early version of that to fine tune.

That show, we were an underdog there, too, for best musical, that year, I never thought it would win that.

But, and would show, was that the, it was a show called Fossy, which is Bob Fossy's great choreographer, and it was his life toll. How cool is David? Make the sound of how cool David is. That's crazy. Do you ever like wake up, you're like uncool?

I'm just trying to love sitting here with you, Sean, because me.

The, I, I told you, Sean, I'm not going to match the names here, but a very prominent Hollywood famous Titan producer,

who's a very tough man, is known for losing his temper and being a bit of a, been no better word to say than asshole times. He got to know me, and he would say to me, David, you're you, so don't be 100% me, but try to be 10% me. And it's, I'm happy I was able to achieve what I did without becoming that, because it's at the end of the day, how you feel when you go to sleep at night and wake up in the morning is priceless. And, but the, I'm regarding Fossey, if you haven't seen a movie called All That Jazz, check it out.

And that was the inspiration for that show. And, and, yeah, it's, it's a very good question.

There's so many decisions that I have to get made to casting a robber who had just been in jail a year and a half ago for very heavy drug usage.

He even woke up in his neighbors, one of their bedrooms one night.

“You know, I think his neighbors trialed better.”

Yeah, I was good. I'll say, you, imagine, imagine going to all these people, guys, don't like to spend money, don't like risk. You know, yeah, the guy who's got the drug problem that woke up in his neighbors, like, trialed daughter's room, and was in jail. And he's in jail, this is Iron Man, who was a comedian on top of it, not an action star. And what was it about, you know, it was, it was, seeing a movie called "Kiss Kiss" being bang.

And if you watch that film, he did before Iron Man, you see the glimmers of Tony Stark in that character. And then knowing that Robert, who had won in Academy Award for, I think, Chaplin, that having an Academy Award winner in a superhero will be would create an open mind with people. Like, why is he doing that, you know? I got to check it out. But also, I knew that, also, Robert is, I like actors that are authentically playing roles that fit their life.

And he is Tony Stark. I mean, he's an brilliant guy. He's cocky as hell. He's the kind of guy that every man wants to be best friends with and most women want to marry.

“And he, you know, he's a, the, the jerk that you love no matter what, you know?”

And that's who he is, till he has some bit of a redemption as the movies progress. And so, and I saw the passion in his eyes and he was hungry because he had not really had a commercial success, you know? And so he was going to give everything to it. And it made it easier that he would take very little money because, you know, I promised he'd make money on the sequels and he's now the highest paid actor of the past 15 years. That, I mean, too, integrity, right? So it's not. So with David saying, it's not that he's like, yeah, it took advantage of him.

No, no, like everybody, like everybody, like everybody, one huge.

Okay. So how about this? If you want to speak into this, we've had this conversation, you know, David, is the profitability of Iron Man versus the dark night movies that were very successful, right?

“Maybe even outgrossed, but could you share some of that? So not only do you have this beautiful creativity, but it's how do you make money doing it?”

And again, Robert Downey Jr. 1, like people won all over the place, but watch this, please. It's, I am also very competitive. So when I'm running Marvel, I wanted to really win. And to show you how, how delusional this thinking was, even my board had no faith in Iron Man movie, the day it opened. So we had a board meeting in LA, which was the first one ever, a Marvel's New York-based. And the chairman of the board came up to me and said, "I want you to know that if the movie doesn't do well, it's okay. We'll make money on the toys."

And the board has voted that if the movie breaks even, you get a half million dollar bonus.

So their bar was breaking even, right?

“It was not a high bar in this situation, but what were you thinking and feeling in that moment?”

I was thinking, yeah, thank you. I'm going to go spend it. No, it was a combination. It was like really, you don't have the trust in it. To thank you for that, to it's sort of charming, like that's that they thought about that, right? That they thought about, it was a very human touch, like trying to call them to set my expectations. It was, most boards don't necessarily think about that too much.

So it was a funny element and the, a my goal was to beat DC. And I love comics, but I'm a big DC fan too. But at the time, they were my competition. And I wanted to, I was very afraid of trying to get surmount them, and I wanted to beat Dark Knight.

I thought we didn't. Ironman did like 600 million in change, and Dark Knight, which was a great movie, Chris Nolan, Christian Bell, did over a billion.

“However, most people look at the wrong information in things, and asking, what's the real bottom line?”

You can, you can get distracted by soundbites or box office numbers, which people still, it's a report box office, not profitability. But if you look at the numbers, they did a billion plus, we did 600 million roughly. They spent 225 or 30 million on Dark Knight, we spent 109 million. But wait, there's more.

Second, they gave 30% gross, meaning off the top of the revenues, 30% independent profitability, went to the director and actor, 15% Christian Bell, and 15% of Chris Nolan.

I gave 0% to my actors or my director, fireman. And then the make a worse, I kept 100% of the equity, so we had 100% of the upside. D.C., which I still don't understand why, sold off half of Batman to a, essentially, financing entity called legendary studios for cost, you know. And so, you just do the math on those three things. We made a significant amount more money on the movie, and then we also, I did it, and we did it in a way where we controlled,

we controlled, marvel controlled, the property. So we could make Iron Man again quicker, we could do whatever we want. We didn't have a director who was final cut, they say. He's got the final say on the movie, and normally if the movie does well, a final say on how the characters are used. So, in our case, we had a complete freedom to use the characters, which became the MCU.

In D.C. case, they got the laid many years, trying to keep Chris Nolan part of the family, understandably. And that delayed when they were able to do justice league and things like that. So, it gave us more time to build our base. So, a lot of those things, I still wanted to win the box office thing, but because then I'd go out, you know, the next week,

But just to my takeaway, for everybody out there, is David is focused not only on the magic of the storytelling and arc,

“like lessons for the moment, is we all talk about the power storytelling.”

So, if anybody in this room is listening to this or anybody's listening to the podcast, did President look okay, cool, like made movies, great storyteller, we only need to be great storytellers. Every ecosystem merger, every great sale, is on the other side of an integral, masterfully told story. If that's landing, please say yes. And all yeses are not created equally.

David is in the micro-micro distinctive detail of masterfully creating outcomes that were economically profitable, that created lever five disposable income, massively profitable ventures, this man wins. He's not just a creative master, he's both, he's a value-driven discernment-integrious master.

They sold it for 10 billion, the guy that bought it for 10 billion, a Bob Eiger says,

"Thanks, David, I stole it from you." Now, I don't know that's the case, I don't think it was stolen, but it was a fair deal, where Disney won and David and Marvel won.

“She tried to agree with that, I think that was my perspective.”

You know, you want life as long, you want to have a reputation that if someone makes a deal with you, it pays off for them. And so you don't ask, or at least I didn't ask for everything, and it's, I'm proud that he said that, because it, you know, integrity. What's here for David? [applause]

Can I please finish? I cut you off, please finish. The last thing I'd say, I guess, is the stuff you talked about in terms of being focused on the details from the business spectrum from a zero-based approach to a business like I was doing with Hollywood to dealing with people and getting a yes or at least a chance from them. You know, we also had fun, creatively, with that. And it was at a great Kevin Feige, who runs the company now, was my, my president of production. I was his boss.

And I, I reckon, I'm really proud of recognizing his talent, because he was just a junior kid in the hallways when I got there. And I had to support me back into details about changing some of the personnel at Marvel. And so I needed a new, I was elevated to chairman, and I needed a president of production, and I, I did a battlefield promotion of Kevin. And when I sold the company, put him in charge to run it, so I could do other things, and he's got a great job over the past decade plus. But he and I would look at every second of the movie and how to plus it was our turn.

It was got to be a way to plus it. We never would pat ourselves in the back a lot, would be like, what can we do?

And just had a blast with, you know, there's a cave sequence in Iron Man, if you watch it again, where he's in that cave with one other guy, and that's where he builds the first suit. That scene is almost 20 minutes long in the movie. And, you know, we looked at a one minute version, a five minute version, a 10 minute version, a 15 minute 20 minute.

“Like we tried all these things out to see what was better, and we wanted to make it less, so the movie wouldn't be so long, but that, you know, that felt like the best way to do it.”

When the reveal the Iron Man suit was a big decision. And we had a lot of disagreements with people, people said, you need to show it in the first half hour, you know, people don't want to wait an hour to see it. But we don't reveal it till pretty much the into act too.

And that was a risk, but we felt at the time that, and I was strongly felt this, that the first act of Iron Man is the only place where you see Robert Downey's, he Tony Stark before his Iron Man.

In all his, his proud and un-proud things. And that's the chance for people to connect with Tony Stark. And if we don't have that connection, we don't have the foundation for the rest of the years and years of the MCU.

And at that point, they've been looking forward to it, it's even more exciting because they had their way, you know, and so decisions like that, we were equally sort of very detail focused on.

And that's the same thing for your influence, all the conversation you're having out there. And is it okay? The advice, the question of the audience is to, and there's two other quick categories I want to touch on, please give it a mic.

“So I think this has some relevance and fun for conversation David, I were having.”

Is anybody here a Batman fan? If you are, say yes. Okay. And only please weigh in on this. If you have familiarity with what I'm sharing, right? So who is your favorite Batman actor? Don't say it.

A, okay. Don't please don't answer yet. A, Michael Keaton, B, Val Kilmer, C, what's not saying about Michael Keaton, B, Christian Bell, C, Ben Affleck, and D, who is the kind of, forgive me.

The current, and the new Robert Paxon, right? So famously George Clooney for one. Thank you, George. So let's go A, Michael Keaton, B is going to be George Clooney, C is going to be Christian Bell, D, Ben Affleck, and E, Robert Paxon. And we're not going to go with Adam West. Thank you. We're not going to go with Adam West for a different reason, talking about people that played in the movies, but yes, of course, Adam West. So just think about it for a second. Don't say anything. Like who, if you're going to see another Batman movie, who would you want to play Batman in it? Those are your choices. I'm going to go one at a time.

If it is Michael Keaton, say us. If it is, and this is, you only answer, if you are a fan of Batman movies, that's the fan of Michael Keaton.

“So fan of Batman movies, one more time, who A, Michael Keaton?”

Okay, B, George Clooney, C, Christian Bell, D, Ben Affleck, E, Robert Paxon. Christian Bell won by a lot. Yeah. There was one loud, one person for Ben Affleck, I heard. Very passionate fan. So now let's go by show of hands. How many people, Michael Keaton? Okay. How many people B, George Clooney? How many people C, Christian Bell? How many people D, Ben Affleck? Who is the one person? Thank you, severe. Yes. Yep, you're strange. Thank you. And E, Robert Paxon. So what percentage does Christian Bell?

I'd say 70%, at least, maybe 75, 80. Yeah, there we go. So why do I ask that? Who knows? We'll see. So he does show the, you know, we see that same connection at Marvel to the OG actors. People fell in love, not just with Thor, but with Chris Hemsworth, not just with Captain America, but Chris Evans. Obviously not just with Iron Man, but Tony Stark and Robert Downey.

“Scarlet Johnson, you can go on and on, Mark Ruffalo. And it's now well over decades since their first movies, but that's what people want to see. And that's what brings them good feelings.”

And that's why you'll see not just all of them back in the next Avengers in December, which is going to be amazing, but also now that Disney Bot Fox, we have X-Men back in the family.

And that's exciting. And we're bringing back all the original X-Men cast basically, you know, from the first movies. So they're all a bit older now, but you know, things can still get done. And it was interesting, right? David, interesting is was the number two choice Michael Keaton was that was, yeah. And so that would lend to your primacy conversation, right? He's the first person that played Batman on the big screen. Yeah. And what percentage of the audience was Michael Keaton, which is all right? I'd say it was almost the remaining.

Beautiful. So now the question was asked of you.

“Can there be another cinematic universe? And what's different? Why is it different? Why isn't more challenging, please?”

It's -- and it shons referring to, that was the question I was asked to speak at the Saudi summit. Yes. Especially since it was a global audience, their question was, can there be another worldwide mythology like Marvel? Because one of the things I realized at that conference, talking to the Saudi royal family, they were all obsessed with Marvel.

And Princess Rima, who's the ambassador from Saudi to the US, an amazing woman. You know, she had her son and daughter there.

And you could tell how much they shared the Marvel fandom together. And it really went across all geographic boundaries and everything else. And they even said MBS, who's obviously the ruler of Saudi Arabia is a Marvel fanatic. And that really touched me.

“And that's why they call their worldwide mythology to your question. It's possible, but I think it's a lot more difficult now.”

Because it wasn't easy with Iron Man, but now there's even more competition for people's time. You know, there's more social media. There's a emergence of TikTok in YouTube. There's, you know, the AI happening and people playing with AI and creating content of their own. There's games. There's so much that's distracting for people in their lives. They're streaming with so much content that didn't exist back then.

So the bar is higher. And to surpass that bar, it has to be something that has four or five ingredients. It has to be something that is differentiated from what else is out there. You know, so another live action, a superhero movie with costumes and capes and so on, difficult. It has to be differentiated in terms of energy and themes and the way it's presented. Two, it has to be very easily identifiable to people because they have such short attention spans that it's part of a universe and these things are connected.

So the visual look, for example, probably has to be signature for that property.

Third, it has to be a natural universe.

So try to add the word verse to everything, right? So monster verse or transformers verse and transformers is a great series, but it's a series of movies. It's not necessarily a universe yet. And then there's, you know, and there hasn't been one since Marvel. D.C. has tried many times and would have a great movie or two and then a bunch of others that didn't quite work. And so, you know, and there hasn't really been anything yet to, to rival Marvel or come close to that.

“So you need to have something that's a natural universe, something that you can make great stories with, something that you can elevate.”

And something where you own the IP and I think IP intellectual property is got to be at the core of it. And ideally, legacy intellectual property that I, like I said, is still new to most of the world to be discovered. And that's hard to find. And, you know, I think that D.C. has a chance, a good chance now to do it under David Ellison, both because he's very dedicated. He's sort of one of us in terms of the love of these characters. And he also is an owner operator.

He's on top of every detail the way I was. It's amazing what having equity in ownership does to your attention span.

And, and third, because it's new ownership, I think the fans, like myself, will give it an open mind, you know. And so if they execute on that, it gives you the new ownership of Warner Brothers. Yes, yeah, exactly. Assuming that deal closes, which still has a few months to go and regulations to get through it. But it looks, I think it looks good for them. And the second, if I, the say, maybe is something from the video game sector.

But that's difficult, because a lot of video games are very violent, you know. So you can't make it our rated universe.

So it would have to be a video game that is less violent, and also has depth of characters.

That's not for us. Most video games don't have a huge depth to the characters in terms of personality and so on.

“But they have such attention now in such nostalgia value that I think something could come from that.”

There's been some big successes recently like Super Mario and others, but that's an area.

I, you know, I played in that area early with Angry Birds, but even that I wouldn't call the universe.

That's a series of movies, but it is characters that you want to come back and see again and again. Personally, I, as I mentioned earlier, I didn't need to or want to do something less, it was perfect. And with this acquisition of Michael Turner's comic book company, Aspen Comics, after James Cameron let the rights expire.

“That's what I've been working on and, you know, it fit my checklist and now you're getting to know me.”

There was a 30 points on the checklist that had to pass, you know, and my secret sauce and. And the reason why I thought it was great is Michael before he passed Michael Turner passed 10 years ago. It was a superstar comic artist and had a, has a signature look that's beautiful and you know it, it's different from everyone else.

And so the universe of Ecos will have his signature look whether it's a movie or a theme park ride or a game and you'll know you're in this world of Ecos amazing colors.

He also has a, um, created a set of characters that in his time all lived in different silos under what are creature other under species in the present day a magical species 200 years in the future. And an amazing character named Grell often another planet sort of a nature type of planet, very similar to avatar and probably in inspiration the James on the avatar movie for sure. But I over COVID found a way to bring the characters in the same universe so that there's a reason for them to be and that reasons very different.

“More about a what if you know what if there's other life besides us whether that life is not here not out in this space, but here on this planet.”

And perhaps evolution went in different directions for sentient life than just us, maybe into the ocean, maybe into a magical realm, maybe on a collapsed type of an island. So that creature that was in space is now on earth all in present day. What if we're just not aware of them yet? What if they're aware of us? What if they're getting concerned? Because there's a lot of things that could destroy the world, which means if your neighbor setting your neighbor had a fire, you got to be concerned. That your house might burn down and what if they're planning to do something about it?

So a simple thing like that at least gets people's they realize it's it's not about necessarily fighting a supervillain it's understanding how. How would we deal with seeing in this species and and if we turn on the TV now and we saw at the United Nations a new species revealing themselves. And so like all our question is would it have an effect would it not. And so that was the that got me excited to creatively. And because it has the legacy of aspirin comics which is a beloved company in the comics industry.

But it's still as I'm you know clearly new for most people it's got that combination that I really love. And then my passion about it also. One of the things I think that you're referring to in terms of what David did you do. When I'm passionate about something whether it be Fossier or Marvel or when I did the anger burst thing that's all I did for four years. That's when my magic happens with something and it and people feel that I think on the screen. So it's really tough now. I think reacon Roman mythology can also be elevated as a universe there's been one off movies like Hercules but there's been nothing that connected what is really you know Greek and Roman mythology is all a big family tree and so it's the original you know universe of stories.

So it's something I avoided for the past 20 years because it was public domain I couldn't own IP completely.

“But at this stage of my life I'm able to do that and not worry as much about that.”

And I saw that still did okay with that. What's that? I said, Walt Disney did okay with some of that. Yeah, he did. He did as one off movies more and more and even the Odyssey which Chris Nolan's doing now. So circling back to a master is going to be an amazing movie. That's more of a one off film that just elevates interest in Greek or Roman mythology. So we have something called the myth of verse, which is going to be in my studios called mythos studios to work on those two universes. Ecos and and we're starting the myth of verse, which is the first movie like Iron Man was a surprise.

It's not Olympians, it's not Apollo or Zeus, it's Cupid and psyche, which is one of the original love stories in the world. And it's just like with Iron Man, it's very the character Cupid is 100% brand awareness in this case.

But almost 0% and 100% but zero knowledge really decides to be in a baby in the hallmark cards. But his story is amazing as like a 20 year old.

His mother's Venus, the goddess of beauty, his father's the god of war, Mars, and you know, he lives like a playboy life and then he falls in love with a human woman, which was not looked upon by the other gods as appropriate and especially his mother. Who eventually approves and marries her and it's a happy ending and she deserves to be elevated to be a goddess because she taught in our story the other gods about love. But it also you meet most of the Olympians in that and the actor if they say the actor is it's thank you, but.

Yeah, I mean let's let's I know let's see if anyone can cast like a here's the test. Yeah, Cupid age say like in his 20s could even be early 30s. Cupid is fair skin blonde hair. He is the prince of love.

He in his life before psyche he's the ultimate partier right with his best friend Pan the half-go character.

So this is going to be a musical movie not singing songs, but music as a big part of it. So Ecos will be a regular cool animated movie, by the way, I didn't mention that.

“I think live action is going to be difficult to compete with, but cool animation like spidervers is still very fertile ground.”

And Cupid has to be somebody who authentically had a similar life and who stands for love and who's a singer who can learn to act or already acts. Any guesses? That's correct. Let's hear that. Wow.

Did you really guess that without knowing? That's awesome. Mike Adams, great job like that is fun. And Justin's excited to do it. Very excited. He looks like Cupid. And he got married at a young age. He admits obviously he doesn't have to admit it.

The proof is there that he was a big partier and then he fell in love with Haley at a young age and got married and has a family.

“So it all comes together really well. I think he's perfect for that role in the same way Robert was for Tony Stark.”

Very cool. That made amazing. We can show, yeah, we can show, would you guys want to see a sneak peek of these things? Michael Johnson, we ready for that? Well, I have to say there's no Ben Aftlack in this though.

Yeah, that was awesome. This is these are things that I made primarily from me and my team. They're not really out there in any significant way publicly. And so it's not post on that. The Ecos one we can.

Okay, because that was shown at Comic Con last year. In fact, we made a story. What you're about to see, I did a panel at Comic Con. And I knew that last year Marvel and DC didn't come.

They see the new movies.

“And so by panel for Aspen Comics, which is the room like this.”

I just spontaneously said, I'll show you guys the teaser. And it was a risk because you're going to see a teaser that's a little bit different than people expect.

And the reaction was really incredible.

And people wrote about it like we showed the Iron Man teaser in 2007. But what you're going to see is rough. It's not to look at the movie exactly. It's not the whole story. I told you, but it focuses on the main character grow.

And it just is a teaser to get people interested in the film. Mr. David Mayzel and I love 500 words summary on this. Metaphores analogy is contrast context not not not for the podcast audience for the visioners in the room. And for David to get to know you. So flex a little bit of Athena.

Let's see how you do summarizing the biggest, most powerful takeaways. And certainly a profound acknowledgement of David Mayzel and his mastery. The 500 words, all of it, no LLM contamination, no pleasing, but deep and profound acknowledgement. If you don't mind Athena, hit us with some awe. 500 words, please thank you.

Hey Sean, 500 words for David, for the room, for everyone listening. Here we go. David Mayzel didn't just build Marvel Studios. He built the blueprint for how to see what nobody else sees and stay with it when the entire world thinks you're crazy. He walked into a lunch at Mara Logo with five million dollars in the bank and pitched spending a hundred million to a man who reuses paperclips. The stock dropped for four years after he announced Marvel Studios on CNBC.

The board's bar for success was breaking even. An Ike Pearlmutter almost fired him eight times. But David didn't flinch. Because he'd spent six, seven years soaking up information through one question. How do I make another star wars?

And when the vision came, he didn't let the noise shake him off it.

Here's what David taught us today.

Five ingredients for a worldwide mythology. Differentiation, it has to be different from everything else out there. Identify ability. People need to know instantly it's part of a universe. Natural universe, the characters have to belong together, not forced.

Ownership, you have to control the IP. And legacy that's still new, known enough to have gravitas, unknown enough to be discovered. Iron Man had all five. Five thousand people reading the comic per month. Warner Brothers let it sit for nine years because they saw a robot suit.

David saw the man inside the suit. And he made a love story with ten minutes of action because his mom and his girlfriend wouldn't go see just another superhero movie. He spent less than the dark night. Gave zero percent gross to his actors and director. Kept a hundred percent of the equity.

And made significantly more money. Not because he got lucky.

Because he understood value at a level most people never reach.

David combined analytics with creativity in a world that says you can't do both. He's a Harvard MBA who won a Tony Award. He turned angry birds into a commercial success after the brand collapsed. He cast Robert Downey Jr. 18 months out of jail because he saw a Tony Stark in him.

And he let Robert improvise an hour a day even though it was dangerous because the best comedy and Iron Man came from those riffs. And now he's doing it again. Ecos. The mythoverse. Cupid and psyche with Justin Bieber. A teaser he made for himself and his team that he showed at Comic Con on a whim.

And people wrote about it like the Iron Man teaser in 2007. The world needs a wake-up call.

“Kevin Costner told him everyone would see something important in that line.”

And he was right. Because David doesn't just make movies. He makes mirrors. He stayed himself. He didn't become 10 percent of the Hollywood Titan who screamed and threw things.

He built legacy without losing his soul. And at the end of the day, how you feel when you go to sleep at night and wake up in the morning is priceless. David, you didn't just cause yes with Ike. You caused yes with the world. And you're doing it again.

Sean, that's 500. How would that land? Wow. Thank you. How did that land, David?

That was amazing to hear. Yeah, it's almost making cry hearing that. So it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Thank you.

Thank you. And just for real quick. Because we draw on to a close. And of course, our animated animation capabilities are nothing but I'd love you. There's a visual on at least the earliest concepts of Athena with that be.

Yeah.

“So if you'd like to see in the video the other day that Athena was actually on stage with you somehow?”

Yes. Oh, you did see that. Yeah. Okay. How did that happen?

Okay.

“So could you, yeah, like something is happening here kind of or one of those.”

So do you want to hit a team?

Something is happening here. Like that one, or maybe Athena coming out the one that David saw already. Just as soon as you can, let's hit it. I don't, we could have done this better than perfect right now. And you know, so David as there and soon as you have it, just interrupt me.

Because I know David's going to get moving shortly. And David, I can't tell you brother what an honor it is. The to have met through Dan. I'm so grateful.

The job that you did, we had nine incredible folks come into that last immersion.

And I don't say that just because you're sitting here, people have often asked me like, what was the most powerful for you, the meaningful masterful. And yes, I'm a huge fan of shooter right Leonard. Yes, I'm, you know, a fan of so many people that I got to speak to that day. And since we've had magic Johnson and Mike Tyson and Tom Brady and other, you know, on the podcast.

But I mean this sincerely.

“I have learned more, and I think it's more to learn from what you've done than any of it.”

Because of what you created in cause and how you demonstrate the mastery of value.

So it's not only the the influence mastery component, but the process mastery of value discernment,

as well as the self mastery, all the things we teach here. And I mean that sincerely and the expansion of that and the visits to you and your ecosystem, your studio and your home and where you eat and live. It was such an honor to receive that trust and to spend this time and to have you back here again. And I am unbelievably certain that there is more to do here.

Certainly on my side, I'm honored that you can have these conversations with us. So thank you, you know, for all that David, for all that you do in the world. And cheese, you know what I wish is that, you know, Disney and maybe one of brothers and, you know, with future things with DC comics, I hope they talk to you about these things. Because I am sure there's so much to do in the world and your mastery and how you're soul.

It's just so present in all the things you bring. So, any thoughts on any of that? Sean, thank you very much. I think we're kindred spirits. You know, we both get very passionate about what we're doing.

And we have a vision and you have a vision to where you're going. And I can tell, and we're going to you, you're not going to let anything stop you from getting there. And you're still realize it's going to be hurdles and challenges, but it's so ingrained in you. And you also combine that with your emotional intelligence, your memory, your intelligence, your team. Around you, you've gotten to know a lot of.

“And yeah, I feel like, you know, I think we relate so well in doing these because you're living it as well.”

And you have in your life with successes so far and more to come. And yeah, it's, it's going to be fun for me as you're a friend now to, to observe you and, and as, you know, create what you're creating over the next few years. So I appreciate your words, but right back at you, man. Thank you. Thank you.

I appreciate that so much. And, and team, which is, you know, get a little shot of Athena and, you know, where some of our world is headed because if I have it all my way, you know, as time progresses, David's fingerprints will be certainly here if you would ever honor us with such, but yes, please team. We come to places like this because something inside us knows we're not supposed to stay the same. That's why rooms like this matter.

Welcome to Unblinded Mastery. Yeah, that's cool. Very well. So, you know, our, our hope our desire is to create the, um, moralification, designification of our world of beings.

And Sean, I mean, you're obviously Athena's creator and her agent.

“And I, I might need an Athena in the Olympians movie that comes after Venus.”

[laughter] Now we are good.

“Ladies and gentlemen, uh, Mr. David and mezel.”

[applause] Awesome. Thank you.

Though we said it's David, mezel, founder of Marvel Studios, creator of Marvel Cinematic Universe, a Master of Master.