Building a Menopause Brand: Naomi Watts on HRT, Hot Flashes & Hollywood

Yes. And that's when we pushed back.

I wasn't listening to the push back. I was listening to myself. That was, you know, like, I'm sure you've had a moment, you know, you've had ideas that you've circulated for several months, possibly years, you know, and you play, you test the waters with your contemporaries. I'm sure that most people, when they come up with an idea,

just like comedians go out and test their jokes. Yeah. We think it through. We test our friends. We, um, and I was, I was getting met with, you know, like, you know, no, no, no. You're not in menopause. You're a far too young, you know, like, or, don't be silly. You know, like, if I would say, you know,

or I'm having an estrogen dip, I would be getting plenty of messaging from those around me that this isn't a real thing. Don't go there. Kind of, you know,

“I'm not willing to talk about it. So why should you?”

So I definitely kept it tight for a long time. The views and opinions expressed on non-pause are those of the talent and guests alone, and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Three and a half years ago, I was invited to consult on a new brand that was being developed in the menopause space by my guests today. The Academy Award nominated actress and now entrepreneur and author, Naomi Watts. She was building this brand after her own personal struggles with menopause. At the time, I was still a practicing OBGYN running a very new, small menopause clinic

with just a modest social media following. I was flattered and curious. So I said yes and got on a plane to New York.

“When I got there, honestly, I was a little nervous. I walked into a room with 30 people,”

medical experts, advocates, and a group of people from brand development. And the middle of it all was Naomi, not celebrity Naomi, but quiet, focused, and tent Naomi. She didn't just want to sell products. She wanted to normalize the conversation around menopause, build community, and give women language and tools. I asked her point blank if it was scary as an actor to label herself as menopausal in an industry

that punishes women for aging. She answered fully and honestly, and something she has continued to do in the years since. Since that weekend, Naomi and I have shared the stage on panel discussions and at conferences. And when she asked me to write the forward for her book, dare I say it, now a New York Times bestseller, it was one of my greatest honors. And she is here today to talk more about all of this with her trademark honesty and desire to build

a community of empowered women. I'm Dr. Mary Claire Haver, a board certified off-stetrician and gynecologist and certified menopause practitioner. I'm also an adjunct professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Texas Medical Branch. Welcome to unpause. The podcast will be cut through the silence and talk about what it really takes for women to thrive in the

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Where's your garage? Gosh, it's a long story. I'll try to keep it short. I grew up in a small town

called Chorum in Kent outside of London. I live there for the first eight years of my life. My

“father died very young and I think after my father died, my mom was on the move a lot looking for”

the right place to live to set up her family. We stayed with my grandparents for quite a while, why my mom tried to find her feet and I'm sure my grandmother's going to come up through the conversation because she holds a special place in my heart and has a big presence in my life

county to county, you know, back and forth to my grandparents and then, oh, and boarding school

in there as well, in Suffolk. Eventually at the age of 14, my family immigrated, my mom and my stepfather at the time and my brother to Sydney, Australia. Wow. So I moved around a lot as a kid, which was how it's frustrations, but definitely played a part in me sort of, I suppose, being a good adjuster, the idea of someone who's willing to move in different circles, learn, and reshape, and mold, but then that said, identity is a big repetitive theme in my life. Your kids are pretty

much been grew up in one location, right? You've had them in New York. But you know, I was definitely, it was a priority. Not to the point where it was like this is how it has

“to be or broken, but yeah, it was definitely important to me and my ex, absolutely. And really,”

we went back and forth from the West Coast to the East Coast a lot in the early days and even did lots of trips on the road while they were little. And then came a point where it's like, you know, they want to be on a team, right? Or how do they not want to be on a team? Yeah, exactly. Well, no, but well before teenagers actually, even, you know, like a second grade, yeah, a second

and third grade, that's when we were like, let's choose a place and hang her down. Did you always

want to be an actor? No, of course, at the early days, I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be all those things that regular young women to be an actor. That's so funny. I didn't know that acting was a job, but I did have a very interesting moment,

“watching my mom on stage at four years old with my grandmother in the front row. And I kept”

waving to her, like a little kid would, um, trying to join the story of what was happening and knew she was like moving around the stage with this beautiful dress and talking in this funny voice and how to wig and, um, and I kept waving and she wasn't acknowledging me and eventually, after, you know, that many times of trying to connect with her, she gave me a little wink and a hand gesture and it felt like it, I was transported in that moment into this world of make

believe. But I didn't know that that was a job or much less, you know, definitely not a career. I just thought, oh, I want to do that. Yeah, that's something. So, did you do much in high school acting or did you drama? I did. I mean, I've ever since that moment, I joined, because we were

“still living in the small town there, um, what was called The Shore and Play is so every festive”

season. There were some skits or whole plays, um, and I would always be the first to sign up.

And then that turned into when the move from, uh, came up from, um, ninth grade. So, I was 14, um, to come to Australia, go to Australia, which I really didn't want to do because I was settled in my peer group and I was like, what do you mean we're moving to Australia? That sounds like the worst idea, the provider was or the way that my mom, you know, calmed me down was like, okay, I promise I'll get you acting classes, um, which was never something we could have

forward at that point, um, but I thought, okay, all right, maybe I'll, I'll agree to this and as if I had any choice anyway. But yeah, and we got there and sure enough, she delivered and, you know, every weekend, there was a class and it was like, be your favorite tree, your favorite season, your favorite animal. It was a very sort of rudimentary beginning of a class and then that led to another more serious class and then eventually that was it. I knew this is what I wanted to do.

So, did you, when did you realize this could be, you started getting paid? You know, this was because we had still lots of detours, um, because, you know, that there's that funny old thing called fear, um, and it drives hard, has some certain points in your life. I started, you know, doing commercials, I did embarrassing, pan-packs commercials, or a serial commercial, anything. I got to know casting directors, then they started sort of inviting me into a bit part, you know,

TV walk-on moments and that took place. And, you know, it just wasn't enough that was making me feel like this is something I'm, I'm going to really be able to hang around in and, you know, the rejection is personal and it's abundant. I kind of was a bit beaten down. Then I sort of stumbled into a fashion career at the age of around 19. I started assisting my mom who was working

poached by this, uh, company called Grace Brothers. I had to sell a parallel and create photo shoots

“and it was quite a responsible job. And then I got into, um, taken from there to, uh, a magazine,”

which was, like, on par with L and Harper's Bazaar and Vogue and High Fashion, uh, it was called Follow Me and I lasted there for about a year until this very pivotal moment where a old actor friend said, "I want you to come and join this class, this workshop for a weekend and I said, no, no, I'm not acting anymore." And he said, "Oh, right, yes, but you're really good and, um, please." And I said, "No, you don't get it because I swore off it and it was horrible for me." And

he said, "Well, could you think of it like this? Do me a favor. We're short on women and it's

going to be amazing." But, you know, you don't have to say, "This is for you anymore. Just do it for me."

So I said, "Okay." So I went and did it. And then by Sunday afternoon, this very sort of small group of actors and the teacher said, "This is who you are and you realize you're denying your dream and

“you should, you know, start owning that and just, you know, just do it." Do you think it's,”

because maybe you're nothing to lose that weekend? Well, I get what kind of, I mean, I ran, not say about Monday morning. I went and, because I did feel like that. I did feel like I was having a moment of, you know, something huge. And I wasn't really in, I do love fashion to this day, but it wasn't really my calling. And so I went on Monday morning and sat in front of my boss and said, "I'm going to quit." And I will train someone. I'll stick around for a month. And he said,

"Why are you quitting? You have the world at your feet. You're just beginning at such a young age. You can take this, you know, to any place." And I said, "It's just not who I am." And he was like, "And you want to be an actor? Sure. Do that on the weekends anytime." And I'm like, "Yeah, but I really have to put my mind to it." And anyhow, I did it. And then two weeks later, I got cast in this movie called "Floating," which was with my friend, who I knew, but not super

well, Nicole Kidman. Okay. That was the beginning of that relationship. Yes. Well, wasn't the beginning. The beginning started it when we were very, very young. Her sister and I dated the same guy. And there was no overlap, but we were friends. And we saw each other. We also worked in a Delhi on the weekends. She would come in. You know, there was social connections, but that's literally when the friendship was forged. Yeah. And then when did you end up

moving to the US? And did you come for a part or job? No, I moved in my early 20s and I did what many actors we're doing, which was come, take meetings. There was no part available or promised to me. I didn't even have a film that was launching me, like certain people like Nicole, like Judy Davis, like Hugh Jackman. So I was really starting again, basically, even though I had done some work in Australia. And it's a small industry over there. I definitely was known

within the industry. It really was beginning all over again. And so you were working part-time team. I was working. I waitress here. I know I came with some savings, like a few thousand dollars and a couple of phone numbers. And I stayed with my mom's best friend. Took a bunch of

“meetings. Everyone was very positive in the beginning. Oh, Australia, we love it. What is it?”

Is it in the water? You guys are amazing. And I thought, oh, wow, everything's going to go great

for me. So I sort of went back to Australia, packed up my life, had my farewell party and said, things are going to go great in America. I'll see you later. Anyway, cut to, went back and met with some of those people again. And they were like, oh, yeah, I remember you. Let's see, you're, okay, well, good luck to you. And I was like, but I moved my life on the promise of, you know, like, I took all of their positivity as literal. And again, back to square one. And that really led to years and

years of auditioning and coming close. But then, or getting a small part, just a little bit to keep me here, very tomorrow, rising time of my life, trying to prove myself. And you know me well enough, you've seen me in high-pressure situations. Now, I'm not great when I'm feeling nervous or tested in any way when I have to prove myself. So auditions just would not go well for me. Yeah. So it wasn't until I met David Lynch, who had, so that's 10 years. Like, you were 30

Yeah. But there was some hiccup starts, stops and starts with that one as well. I think I met with

“David Lynch just before I turned 30. And then, or maybe it was 30. And then we did the pilot. And then”

that got rejected by ABC. And then it sat on the shelf for like a year and a half. And then some French producers came and said, David, could you make that into a movie? Can you think of any ideas? And sure enough, he did. So it was like three years from the very beginning point to the launch moment. For our listeners, she is speaking of Mohal and Drive. So what do you think? This was your

breakthrough role. Really. This was definitely a change your life role. It meant every director,

every filmmaker saw this film alive today. I mean, David Lynch is, you know, so prolific. And it was also the role of a cent of the century. Like, you know, I played two different parts, almost, that were diametrically opposed. One of them was this happy girl lucky, you know,

“Betty Alms. And then Diane Selwin, who was miserable and the world was beating her down. And”

so I got to play these two parts. And so it was the most wonderful showcase in this film that worked and resonated with audiences and filmmakers and critics as well. So let's fast forward a little bit. So at 36-ish you decide you're going to start. It's time to have a family. Yes, the person you want to have children. You're like, this is it. I'm 36. I know that clocked a little bit was probably ticking in your head. Of course it was. And some of the hardest part of my job

has always been giving tough news to patients. I bet. Even today, you know, I'll get labs.

Usually we, in my clinic, we run the labs before they, we see them for the most part. And so sometimes I'll get surprising news. How do I time it immediately? My mind goes to how I'm going to present this news in a way that is kind, but direct. And I'm going to have all of the resources available to help. I mean, I've diagnosed a loopous in the last year. You know, severe anemia, iron deficiency, lots of things. Fertility is tough. And, you know, I have my own fertility. We have

“a lot, you know, invested in it as women. We are just going in. Why am I getting pregnant?”

Yeah. What happened? I got, I got, um, yeah. I shocked with the news, uh, blindsided by, um, the declaration of me being close to menopause. And my doctor, like you, um, very gentle. Obviously, was, had everything right to say these are the solutions, these are the things that can take place. It's not the end. You know, he was very gentle. And, uh, anyway, fast forward, he delivered my first baby. Yeah. It was, it was shocking. It was really a moment. I was not prepared for it. Though,

I had in the back of my head and my memory bank that my mother had gone in to early menopause. She did tell me that she said that she went in at 45. I was 36. I thought I was well ahead of the game. Yeah. And she also didn't give me any detail around it that there were a multitude of symptoms that could go for a lot of years, um, or that there was any suffering or any of that. She

never said that because, I mean, I've, you've heard me say it. These were the stories I didn't

share with you because my mother never shared them with me. Yeah. They were told to just sort of suck it up and zip it and cope. And, um, so it was, it was very alarming to me. And I thought, oh, God, this is the end. Um, and what have I done? What have I done to harm my body? That blame. Yeah, on yourself. Like, I have lived too much of a stressful life. I've not nourished my body in the right way. Um, yeah, all that self-loathing. We pile it on as women with the first ones to, you know,

say it's all our fault. So it took a long time for me to, um, you know, move through that. I really was focused on just my fertility. How can I make no a yes, basically? You've, you've told me stories about being on location and overseas in China. And coming home with baskets of herbs from the China, you were doing anything and everything. Yeah. You could to enhance your fertility. Yeah, I've said, I mean, and I don't know, um, you know, I know what the magic was. I don't know what

the magic was in the end because I did a whole lot of things. And I know there are, and many of them are not FDA approved. And so I wouldn't say recommend these to all other people by any means. But I felt desperate. I wasn't a candidate for IVF. And I just wanted to try and see, you know,

Is this going to work or am I going to end up, um, you know, with an alternate road, which I was

coming to peace with, you know, I looked into adoption, um, egg donors, you know, all of those things.

“How was your partner through all of this? It's very stressful. I think I drove myself crazy,”

definitely. Yeah. I was, you know, paying on those sticks, getting those obelation tests, those scans, all of it. So anyone around me would have also been rattles. I'm sure he was pretty him. It's the 27th. Yeah. It's the 27th. I went through it, too. Yeah. But my oldest Catherine who's 25 now was it for straight up fertility baby. We had gotten pregnant with some help for right before her. And I lost the baby at a like weeks six, very, very early. But just in the middle of labor and

delivery in front of all of my, you know, co-workers who were all having all pregnant. And I was the one, like, limping behind and then lost the baby and then, but did manage to get pregnant very soon after that. And that was Catherine. So, but yeah, like obsessive about today's the day we have to have sex today. It's not an option or being in that clinic room with my feet and stir-ups while they're

“yes, cooking up sperm or where we're doing and inject all of that. I mean, I think there was a book”

that I read called Inconceivable by Julia and Chover. I think I'm saying that right. And I was churning up wheat grass and getting acupuncture and removing certain things from my diet. I saw a great example, a great practitioner who was who gave put me on this wheat free sugar free dairy free diet. You know, I was checking my alkaline. I was doing all of that. But one thing that was was showing, I mean, I don't know how far you want to go into the fertility thing, but

my egg quality or amount was showing as good. But my FSH was always very high. Yeah, it's your

brain was working really hard to get those eggs. Yeah, you know, there's a lot of special batch.

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So, you were able to get pregnant. Yeah. And you have two wonderful kids. Yes. And they are growing and flowing. And you are very quickly getting close to empty-nesting. Very quickly, very close. Yeah. One's already gone doing well. Doing well, a freshman. Yep. And very, very proud of him. What's really, really hard to get in the exact place that he wanted to go. So, good friend. Very proud of him. So, you have your two kids. You're done with your family.

I'm assuming, at that point, you're happy. You're moving on. Then the symptoms come.

When did it take you kind of even had that blood? Yeah, of course. You know, I didn't know.

Until I started learning. And again, the internet was not active. So, yeah. I mean, in my late 20s, I would have nights with. Okay. And I would chalk that up to an allergy, heavy PMS symptoms, stressful living, glass of wine to many, you know, other things we blame ourselves for. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, maybe it was hormonal and maybe it was just my, I was sensitive to hormonal changes. I wasn't tracking my hormones in my late 20s. Yeah. Yeah. And my grains. That was the other thing.

I was having migraines. Those two things were well before those blood tests,

which we know now, now that I had looked. So, then, after my second baby, all of those things

“returned, massive night sweats. I mean, I remember changing the clothes and lying on towels and”

changing t-shirts all through the night. Then, um, brain fog because of the disrupted sleep. Yeah. But then lots of them came much later when I did learn enough, you know, things like well, the skin, which led me too, and we'll get to that. But the brand, developing the brand, that was a crazy one. I had no idea that skin issues, dehydration from scalp to badge take place. And then the frozen shoulder, and then the UTIs, I thought UTIs were for people in their 20s.

So, you know, honey moaners disease, what used to call it. And yeah, honey moan cystitis is

what we call it in medicine. No, it is definitely a lack of estrogen, which we know, but I didn't know that either, you know, even in my training. That is what's so fascinating. That, you know, it had to be all of us come together. Women to say, I can't handle this. I'm going to be brave enough to talk about my stories and my body lighting me down. And I don't want to suffer. And then the doctors have to listen and then go back, right? Right. And say, yeah, this is what we didn't learn.

And this is what we now have to get up on, you know, get up to speed on. Yeah, so women don't suffer. Yeah, unnecessarily. So, you make your husband Billy Krut up. Yes, at work. You guys were doing a play? No, we were doing a TV show called Gypsy, which was definitely, it was interesting because it was probably the most sexual role of my career. At that point, in my late 40s, I remember I

“had my 47th birthday. I think it was 47th or 46th. God, I can't do the math. On the set. And”

yeah, I met him. I had only recently, Lyv, my ex, and I had been separated for a while, but we had recently declared that we were not together anymore just before I started filming. And so my head was down. I was like, I just all about getting the work done and focusing on the kids. I was really not expecting to meet someone right away. Right. Did you, was it instant? You just knew? No, it was, it was instant in that it was, you know, an immediate reaction and connection,

but the breaks were on. I was, I was moving, letting them off slow. Very slow. Yeah, I certainly didn't want anything to build too quickly. So, a friendship was born most of all, a very strong bond, which was kind of key. And then, um, bit by bit, it just grew. And you know, really wasn't until

“after COVID that we've really got deeper into our relationship. Where did you, you spent COVID”

in New York or, um, yes, out out east? I, we were, there was the very beginning, it started in LA, and then, um, and then came back to New York. Okay. It was an interesting time for everyone. We were all like separated, and especially if you had, you know, he had his son. Yeah, and he wanted to be with your kids. Yeah. And you, you know, want to keep the lockdown tight, be respectful and, um, a lot of texting. Yeah, a lot of texting, a lot of face-timing. So, you were, there's a great story

you shared on Oprah when we were on Oprah together. About you were metapausal, you were being appropriately treated. You had your patch for something on. Yeah. And you didn't, you hadn't really shared that with him yet. No. No. I was, um, this shame placed such a big part of, you know, menopause or, um, especially if you go in early. And I, uh, I had recently gone on the patch at my new endocrinologist's advice. And that moment came where it was, we're going to get hot and heavy.

And I had to excuse myself. And it was not to slip into something more comfortable. It was to scratch off that patch, which we know ladies, you know, I'm sure your listeners have tried the

square. Yeah. And yeah, if you, you switch sides and there's one on the other side that hasn't yet

come off either. And now you've got two sides. I was like, ah, what do I do? So, I was in the bathroom far too long and Billy's like, is everything okay? I'm not dark and, and then I came out flustered. And, um, I was like, what am I going to do? What? What? I could either just excuse myself and be, you know, uncomfortable and weird to him, or I could just own this and say, this is what's going on with my body. And I did. I ended up, you know, through a flustered, you know, a mountain

words. I just said, I, well, this is thing and I was trying to get it off and, you know, I'm,

“I'm in menopause and I don't know if you know much about that, but you have to wear a patch and”

levels your estrogen and, oh my god, should I just leave? And he cracked up laughing and just said, oh my god, I first of all, I'm so glad you're getting the right treatment. And let's talk about this. How could I help? And, you know, that was just like the gateway to owning my story. Yeah. And, um, intimacy, the gateway to intimacy. Right. I felt like more supported, more seen.

Yeah, it was just a loving moment. Amazing. And it kind of gave you power. Yeah. To say, you know what,

I did the worst thing. I said the thing and it was a living. Yeah. And it was a living test. Like, I'm, I'm going to stick around. So hot flashes was one of your main symptoms. I wouldn't say it was my main, but yeah, definitely there. It was in the most embarrassing. Okay. Let me hear it. I was on a plane. And, um, it, it, I wouldn't actually embarrass things that were wrong

“word panic because I'm, you just want to take off everything, you know, get rid of the layers.”

And I was in a middle seat and, um, and I'd already gone to the bathroom too many times, much to the sugar in the man on the aisle seat. And I, you know, if there was an eject button, I would have just pressed it. I was like, give me out of here. You just want to, like, the earth to swallow you up. And in this case, the skies. It just fills you with panic and dread. Like, you just assume that everybody is looking at you. And, you know, the blood pressure that is rising,

there's a sense of impending doom. Yeah. Many, many would have right as the hot flash occurs. Yeah. And it was so early on that I definitely didn't have my stuff together. And, you know, I didn't really know what was happening. I thought it may be. It was a panic attack or, um, but the hot flashes, I would say I got under control quickly because I went on, um, I went on HRT. Yeah. And I have been successfully on HRT. I know it's not everyone's choice,

but I have been on it since 2013. Yeah. I'm almost at 10 years. Right. So, yeah, 48. Those hot flashes. And, and, and I know they hit some people in the most extraordinary, of places that can be your undoing. And, you know, I have, there's some mentions of it in my book of other women as well, not just the story I just said. And mine was in, in the OR was the worst, because you were draped in all these gowns. And you were in the mask. And then my mask, you know,

we had a protector. Yes, because I wore glasses so I couldn't wear the goggles. And you're steaming out, steaming, steaming and they would come to their operating. They would have to come with with the 4 by 4 little cause, you know, dipped in water to clean the screen off. So I could see to operate while I'm drenched underneath. It was, it was, it was very quickly after that. I said, yeah, I was still under the impression that HRT was dangerous. You only do it if it's the last

course. And I said, I can't live like this. Right. I'll take the gamble. I mean, and now I,

“I think the work that has been done by you guys, you doctors and, and other people, I think women”

can now in those moments, say, give me a minute. Yeah. Can I just adjust the, who's got the remote control or let me just take off a layer, or I'll be back in five, you know, and no shame on that. And, and hold your head high. It's just biology, right? And not be so embarrassed in a shame. I think good study out of the UK that 1 in 5 to 1 in 10, women will quit their jobs at the height of their career when they have the most to give the most wisdom because of untreated

menopause sometimes and they just don't feel it. And a lot of that is the brain fog and the cognitive, you know, struggles that they're like, I can't remember the numbers of the names of the math and, you know, people who rely on that recall, it's crazy tough. And we don't have to live like that. No, absolutely not. Okay. So here you are now on the other side, exploding career. I love, I, the algorithm

happily shows me every new part, all these incredible roles that you're, you're just killing right now.

path. What is going to stop you now? I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm tired. No, I mean, this is the thing is that we're not done. And that was the message that we were fed. I remember your interview, the roundtable with Hollywood reporter. Yeah. And you, so beautifully, we're talking about the workwork work mantra, you know, once you hit, you know, once, once the

big breakthrough role. And then it was like, do as much as you can to talk about. Yeah, because I came

into Hollywood, you know, the launching of my whole drive was, as you said, like 33-ish, and it was

“like, you got to work because it's all finished at 40. And I was like, well, why? What do you mean?”

And then, well, you know, it's like them for tall roles are not going to be there for you anymore. And, you know, when you, when you get to a certain age, you're the grandma. Yeah, it feels like at least not now. But back, you know, when I was in my 30s thinking of there's like these ages and Hollywood of girlfriend, yeah, some kind of gritty character, you know, a lawyer or whatever, and then grandma. Yeah. Exactly. There's nothing in between, which is changing. Yeah. And I mean, just look

class-gear. Three women that I know, Pamela Anderson, Nicole Kivman, to me more, in sexually driven movies, like, and age appropriate. And age appropriate. It's fantastic that that means that the tide and the narrative is, is definitely changing. And I think we all have something to do with that. We, you know, we want to be seen. We want our stories reflective. That's all people are looking for the whole time is to know that they're not alone. It's, they're not outside of it. Do you

think it's the, the receiver of their spoons? And I think, I mean, everybody's getting into production now, but like women are starting to drive. Yeah. These, these, these producing, you know, producing. And so they're for exactly right. Getting the mind open to this could be financially successful,

“because you have to make money. Yeah. Everything is. Yeah. But they're proving that these are”

going to be good, financially skilled. And women will go and see them. Yes. Yeah. Definitely, Reese has been absolutely instrumental in driving female driven stories. And, you know, lots of other I've been, you know, working with Ryan Murphy recently. And not only is he giving me roles at this age, but like multiple women around my age. And it's heartening. It's, it really is because like I said, we want to see ourselves celebrated, reflected at every point in life. And

we're not, unsexy. We're not unfuckable. We're not done. You and my tracks the first time.

In the backstory, I talked about when we first met. And I do, I, I owe you a debt of gratitude, because your team kind of plucked me out of obscurity to bring me up to this meeting. And it just took me out of my little shell. I had a modest social media following. I wasn't. But I was following

“you. You were of course I was, but you know what? Here's the thing. I was still in secret”

menopause, right? Yeah. Trying to, I don't know what this is going to be career suicide at something like. Yeah, you were absolutely. Of course I was. I thought this would be a terrible idea. But I was trying to find resources myself through Instagram. And I have a private account. And I would follow you and a great number of others. The whole list of doctors. And I really relied on on these people. Because I needed, I needed to piecemeal the information. Because you were young.

And you didn't have friends. I'm guessing that. Yeah. You know, they got there eventually.

But you were kind of the first. Well, I mean, I'm not in my thirties. I wasn't doing that. But like

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MCH20 to get $20 off your first order. So, you decide to do a brand around menopause.

“Yes. And that's why we let push back. I wasn't listening to the push back. I was listening to”

myself. I'm sure you've had a moment. You've had ideas that you've populated for several months, possibly years. You play, you test the waters with your contemporaries. I'm sure that most people, when they come up with an idea, just like comedians go out and test their jokes. We think it through. We test our friends. I was getting met with, you're not in menopause. You're far too young. If I would say, "Oh, I'm having an estrogen dip." I would be getting

plenty of messaging from those around me that this isn't a real thing. Don't go there. I'm not willing to talk about it. Why should you? I definitely kept it tight for a long time. I did have just enough people encouraging me. One friend who this was back in my 40s said, "Right, the book," because I said, "I wish there was a handbook. I wish there was something that gave me the courage that made me feel like this wasn't the end that made me feel like I can still be

sexy and funny and navigate this with some kind of ease." Not this horrible narrative that tells

“you you must go to the corner and pull out your freaking knitting needles. No. You know, we're living”

longer. We're half the population. Why is it so taboo? So I definitely sat quietly with it for a very long time and it wasn't until COVID and I'd already had that wonderful level of support from my boyfriend now has been. And then I called pitched the idea to Amorous, which was a biotech company. I literally just rang them up and COVID out of the blue and said, "I have an idea and I've been thinking about it." And I literally pulled off Instagram, you know, pictures and quotes

and, you know, I'm sure one of your quotes was on there and made this kind of pitch deck,

which I'd never even done before, you know, and this is before a chat TBT, you know, to help you

out. Absolutely different on your own and said, you know, and and and chat it with them for like 20 minutes and before the call was over, they were like, "This is this is great. We want to do it. Let's do this." But tell me about Scout to Vage. Yeah, well firstly I want to talk about this woman. I wanted this woman to feel like she could have her dignity that she could have agency over this time that she was not lost. She was not done. Yeah, that her experiences amounted to something.

She matters and that she should be able to hold her head high and because of her wisdom and cumulative experiences and it's a time for her to shine and be vibrant. She's earned her strides. That title came to me when I was struggling to find it and I was pitching, you know, the elevator

“pitch to a friend and then I just thought, okay, stripes, that's what it is. It doesn't have to”

scream menopause, but, you know, this is what it is. So I thought I want this woman to feel like she has education on her side and I want her to have her community with her because we need our community at every point. So that is where I kind of walked out a week in. Yeah. Well, you know, I was invited to this kind of brand launch thing. Yeah, you know, and I was a medical expert and there were multiple people there of different, you know, opportunities and so. But you were so focused

on that woman sitting on the couch and Ohio. How can we serve her? Yeah. And sure, she buys the products great. That's great. But like you, I was just so impressed that you were so intent on building a community of making her feel special and welcome and not that this was the end of life for her. Yes. And or the beginning of the end. Yeah. You know, and I'll just, you know, it is different. It's different and let's own that piece. That's okay. That's okay. And I mean, I had worked closely with

lots of wonderful brands, but I felt like they were over promising. Beautiful ingredients, beautiful everything. You know, this ideology that we couldn't reverse time and, you know, or you can look 28 again. Yeah. We don't know that actually. I know. So yeah, and thank you for

saying that it was absolutely crucial to me that this woman feel seen and proud of everything

but also that she felt supported through her community and education was was current. Did you ever think that you would say the word vagina so many times? No, and you remember this too. That I was like the vagina stuff is off the table. I'm not going to say vagina. I'm not going to say drive a vagina. I'm not going to do any of that. I was really nervous. Still, you know, but I guess you can't do things in half measures. No, you've got to go there. Dear kids, follow your accounts at all. Yes. They do.

And they've been, they've had the ik with me. I'm so mad. They're super proud of me. And not now, of course, we've been doing this 10 years now, but in the beginning, like my mom's famous for talking about vagina's on social media, I'm not in a way that is at all sexy. No, for sure,

in the beginning, it was like, oh, mom, no way. And then, you know, saying, well, you'll never,

you'll never get into for a, if you're talking about vibrators or Lou, or any of that, no way. And, and I said, well, I don't know, actually. And, you know, now we see vibrators being salted over that. Target is and, yeah, Lou, everywhere in Target, so for all of these places. So, but when you started, when you conceived this brand, you saw a gap in the market. I did. I saw that this woman

“had been left out and not spoken to directly or honestly. People come up to you on the street,”

because if they saw a gun a movie or a part or something, but that's changing. That wave is changing for you too. Thank you so much. You've really helped me. How does that feel? It feels so meaningful. Not that the other stuff isn't still meaningful, but I think as I've gotten older, I've just enjoyed that shift of being useful to other women. And, yeah, I still think that being showing up in different characters and reflecting someone else's story that, you know,

an audience member is going to connect with. That's also useful, but the newness of being stopped in the street and having a woman not asked for my picture. But looking me in the eye, down the barrel and saying, thank you for giving me permission to open a dialogue with my partner, with my children, with my boss, you know, it's been really helpful. And, you know, that brings, that brings me a lot of joy, a lot of, and makes me feel not just useful, but purposeful.

“So you were just, I think it just got released with Lena Dunham. Yeah. You played.”

Was minimum husband written into the park? Yeah. Was that right? And she, no, it wasn't. She called me because she knew I was going to be okay with talking about menopause. Yeah. And it's happened a few times now, but that one was a direct, uh, hey Naomi, um, I've got this lady and she's wacky and she wants to talk about menopause. Now, I don't actually have an point blank asked her, did she write it for me? Because, or did she think of me after she written it? Either way,

it has worked for me and my favor. Maybe it's, you know, hurt me in some ways too. I don't know about that. I doubt it. Women are really leaning in and they're loving it because it's so real. And I think you were hot flashing, you know, hadn't screened, you know, with the character. All right, let's talk about your book. Yes, which was an honor to write the forward. Thank you. So beautiful, beautiful story,

“but this book has been in your mind for a long time. Yeah. Why didn't you write it when you first thought?”

I think the fear was just too great. I was, well, first of all, I'm not a writer. I, you know,

that's my big fear. Then the big, other big piece of fear was like, who wants to hear from you? And also Korea suicide, like branding myself as the menopause lady, no way that that would just change everything. And I still hope to, you know, play leading lady roles. And so yeah, and I've, but eventually carrying that fear, that secret for so long, just gets exhausting. And yeah, they knew meet certain people who give you enough encouragement along the way that

help you out of that fear. Yeah. And, and then I realized, you know, okay, I'm past the average age of menopause, which is, what, 50, 51, 51. Yeah. So it's okay for you to be happy. Yeah, I'm so proud. Yes, what? I, I like how you said, you, you know, you had books for infertility. You had books for puberty. You had, you know, books to help you with your kids going through different places. Yeah,

what you're expecting, and like what you're never going to expect again? Yes, that's that book. No,

it wasn't there. And you also brought in lots of experts, you know. Oh, yeah. No, no, I always knew

the endorsement from, you know, the people that have devoted their lives to taking care of people. And what have feedback have you gotten on the book? Well, as a New York Times bestseller. Yeah. So yes,

that was, that was wonderful. The feedback has been amazing. Again, those moments where people

stop me on the street or in the airport or something, that's so meaningful. But I wanted the story to be not just useful, but like palatable, you know, expert driven through, you know, conversations with people like you. And then other women sharing their stories and, you know, some things like how to's and, but also hopefully levity, some humor. Because it was fun. I laughed out loud. There are moments that are reading truly undignified. But hey, it's just

biology. You know, we feel less awful about it ourselves. If we know that somebody else has had been down that road and coped and survived and found ways to walk through it. So yeah, that's that's ultimately why I did it in the end. What do you think is next for you? What's your next big horizon? You've got the book checked the brand check. It's growing. Yeah. What's new coming out

“for stripes? Yeah, we're we're launching a new product. I think the book is now in paperback”

in February here in February, launching a new product of body butter and that's exciting.

We're always social listening trying to understand what else this woman wants, you know,

not just in hydration, what she needs, you know, we're finding that these in real, you know, IRL, I'm learning my acronyms in real life, you know, like connectivity, you know, like these events, just yeah, people love them, pulling, pulling people together, yeah, lifting each other up, sharing their stories, more of that in terms of stripes. I don't know about writing another book. I felt like that was a lot. You are very productive. Yeah, you know,

I like the manuscript is in. I mean, and I am already pregnant with the next book. You know, like I haven't even given her. Oh, you know, you are on number four. Oh, yeah, I just I want it. I want to you want to explore longevity. Yeah. You know, like Metapaz track, but

“Metapaz is one day medically. But how do we had this last 30 years? Yeah. What is the blueprint?”

I think we're all invested in that and take the bro science out of it. Yeah. To be honest, you know, not all studies can be applied to women and really lean in on what do we know about women, women living longer. Yeah. We are living longer, but when we look at the statistics, we live 20% of our lives in poor health and our health counterparts seeing it. And so in parents generation. Yeah. I'm very focused because my mom, Alzheimer's, fractured hip, osteoporosis,

my grandmother exact same thing. And I am refusing for that to be my, you know, I'm doing everything I can, but I will not allow that to be my daughter's reality. Right. You know, they deserve to live long health. They have been full lives. Yeah. But they know, I don't want to live 220. Do you? No, definitely not. A nice ripe old age, but I want to be functional. But I want to be functional. I had two grandmothers, one that lived to 99, just passed her birthday. I'm one to 101,

amazing. And all the marbles in place, most of me, my grandmother, my mother's side,

“she was living at home right up until the end. I mean, that's how I want to be independent.”

Yeah. And have a fulfill life. So to answer your question, I still have lots of energy. I still want to innovate. But I don't want to miss, you know, a moment, which I have seen happen to many of my parents generation, you know, where they get done with lots of things. And then they want to have time for themselves to travel and do, you know, adventurous brilliant things. And then suddenly their health gets in the way. Yeah. So I, I don't want to lose too much time.

I, I, so to your point, I want to take care of my health. I'll never be not a doer. I'm

my grandmother's daughter. Her work ethic is in me. Get off your butt and get it done. You know, she's muck out the goats, feed the chickens, you know, all of that. And so I'm a busy bee. That said, I want, you know, I want my kids to be content and off out into the world and be compassionate, empathetic, curious human beings. And I, I want some time with my husband. Yeah. I want, I want to travel and loaf around a bit too. We are things. We're empty nesters totally. Yes.

great incredible. You know, we, we are trying, you know, we spent the summer in the mountains

“pretty much and just kind of just the two of us and work. Yeah. So it's the balance. It's like,”

you, I know you. You're still going to be wanting to do. And I will too. But yeah, creating the balance is, is what it's all about. And enjoying this relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Because billion I came into it late. We've got, yeah, time we went up at some time on the cloud. So if you could sit down with, with a woman just entering perimenopause, you know, I'm sure you're, you're different,

you know, you're always get to work with different people. And so are you now that the menopause

person, the queen, they come to you and they ask your advice. I mean, I definitely do find my inbox flooding with questions about menopause from my industry because they know and have heard me bang on about it enough now. And it is like a little club like why welcome them in and try and be an ear and shoulder. And I set them up with doctors. I've some, I've led you away, just for that conversation, just like, you know, it's okay. Don't worry. Yeah, it's, um,

but for the younger ones, for the younger ones. Yeah, I think I'm putting a toe in the water. What's you're, I think collectively, everyone has created enough of a good network for that the next generation,

“the millennials, and definitely Gen Z to feel not daunted by what's ahead. And that's what I see on”

my social is the audience is skewing younger and younger and especially the new perimenopause. Yeah, you see these. So when they're not there, they're curious. Yeah, they want to get ahead of this. Yeah, they're willing to talk about it. They are willing to invest in their own care. They're willing to set themselves up for success and not just wait for the tide to touch over them. It's great for them. And I'm happy that I had a little piece of something to do with that. And we're the first,

but in my mind, I think we were all there and collectively, we knew it had to be done. We've always

been fascinated with the older generation. In storytelling, I remember growing up on Thelman, Louise, and going bad asses, those ladies, they were kicking butt and living life for themselves, and they've always wanted to learn from us the next generation. So it's just menopause was never a part of the conversation. So hopefully, yes, we have been instrumental in shifting that narrative and bringing them in with less fear. Yeah. So menopause often feels like

society wants us to hit pause, okay, and go off in the corner and get the knitting needles and become more invisible. And we're not doing that. This is our time to unpause. So what are you doing in your life besides writing books, writing something? He's building brands, building communities.

Yeah, I mean, I really just want to make sure that travel, I've always someone,

I've been someone who likes to travel. That's the big part of my picture, getting my kids in a place. Well, I mean, it never ends. Your your daughter's right outside. And you know, the parenting is never done, never done. And the worry is never, never. I'm sure

“we're going to go away. But I think just more, more of the same, but maybe not at such a speed.”

And I definitely have been guilty of that. I need to slow the pace a bit. So that's definitely a goal of mine. Well, I'm so happy to have talked to you today on unpause and good luck with Claire. Everything I can't wait to see all your new projects come out. And everybody grab your paperback copy of dare I say it in February. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. As a reminder to our audience, you can follow Naomi on Instagram @ Naomi Watts or @ StripeSputy

or on their website at StripeSputy.com. Naomi's book, dare I say it, is currently available in hardback. And the paperback edition will be released in February. I'd love to hear from you about this topic or anything else that's on your mind. You can find me on Instagram @ Dr. Mary Claire and get honest, accurate information on health, fitness, and navigating midlife at thepauselife.com. My new book, The New Perry Menopause, is now available for pre-order on Amazon. If you're

loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast apps so you never miss an episode. While you're there, leave us a review and be sure to share the show with the women you love. We would be so grateful. You can also find full episodes on YouTube @ Dr. Mary Claire. Unpause is presented by Odyssey in conjunction with pod people. I'm your host, Dr. Mary Claire Haver. The views and opinions expressed on pods are those of the talent and guests

or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.