Food, Media, and the Modern Chef, Alexandria Ebron, Chef Jason F. Lynn

talking to chefs, brands, operators, people from every corner of the industry.

“You feel it when they're there, the pace, the idea, the energy.”

It reminds you how big this business really is.

I want to take a second to thank the team that was on the ground.

Chef Guachrovera, Chef Michael Calantes, Jordan Will, and of course the Restaurant Events team, and put the whole thing together. We missed having John there, and that one was felt. And being in that environment reinforces something we've been talking about a lot lately. Food doesn't just live on the plate anymore.

It lives in media, on camera, on social, in podcasts. In the way stories are told and shared, that's where we're living again today. Our featured guest is Alexandria Ebron. We're in manager for possessed and classical W.S.MR, part of the NPR ecosystem at W.U.S.F. and the University of South Florida.

Alexandria built her voice through writing, content, and real-world experience, and now she helps shape how food stories are seen across the state. Cooking in studio is Chef Jason F. Lin, a returning guest to Walk and Talk. He's a friend. Jason is currently a del web mini-ola, building within a system while still pushing his

identity as a chef, and navigating the reality that today, food and media are tied together whether you like it or not. So today's conversation sits right where we've been the last few weeks. Food and media, craft and content, what gets made, and what gets seen. Let's get into it.

Chef, welcome back. I'm glad to be here. How was fun? On today, wasn't it? Had a good time?

Yeah, it's always fun. Is it so? Yeah. All right. Hey, listen, man.

I want to travel with you.

“No, I try to come more often, but you always tell me to go away.”

I'm going to keep you on the short leash, man. You know what I mean? No, no. Yeah. I got you.

So listen, you did some cool stuff today. I want to start with the chicken. Talk about this chicken.

I've never seen that before.

For a minute, I thought we had that on the program prior. But upon research. No. Yes, soky chicken. It's a beautiful chicken.

It's white and fluffy. Kind of like a pomeranian. I hate to kind of come here to that. But the beak is black. The feeder black.

The meat. Everything is dark about it. And it's like stronger. Obviously, then like even like the thigh meat of like a traditional chicken. We would eat here in the States, so.

Well, the meat was an off color. So it's not. It doesn't it look like dark meat. Yeah, it's it's almost like it's almost like the meat is kind of white. But then the skin is black.

But then it kind of has like a frog leg. You to it, which is kind of weird to say. So it definitely tastes like chicken. But it's not dialed in this chicken. Yeah.

I don't in fact, I don't know. I don't have a good description for that. But it was really delicious. Yeah. So that's my description.

It was delicious. Yeah, it is kind of hard to describe. But like you said, but the meat is really tender too. And even though it's to me, it's really soft and tender. And that was a small chicken.

So it didn't, you know, get all tough and old. What were the equipment? For that, you know, we did this wee potato puree. Just because obviously balancing out some of the chicken can be kind of. So we're looking for.

Not bitter, but it can have some kind of bite to it. And then the black current reduction. Thinking of like the world of duck, you know, you do raspberries a lot. So I'm kind of sticking with that darkness and the black current. And that reduction wasabi cream.

Add some heat, the scallionness. A little bit like fresh bite. And the cauliflower and the bok choy. We're kind of the clean vegetable that we're just charred. The claw.

The claw. I forget the name of the restaurant. So there's a chef that fried the thigh in the leg and left the claw on.

“And I think it's almost like Michelin level.”

It's like a high and restaurant where the end so the claw would be hanging out the side of the sandwich. And you can Google this. I forget the name of the chef. And so anyway, listen to the photography on this particular bird with the claw.

We were all little scantable at first.

But yeah, I want to come up really cool. Yeah, right? I just wanted a little kind of creeper vibe. I know that sounds strange food shouldn't be creepy. Even you've said, hey, kind of has like a Halloweenish thing going on.

I would, that would have been the dish for Halloween. Yeah, just in its natural form without getting, you know, a cartoony or whatever. But it was a really cool, interesting dish. And it's something new.

So I'm glad you brought it. And this number two was the pork shanks, which you saw in the video that I seared off in the pan. And then that had the honey roaster Brussels sprouts. Because obviously Brussels sprouts like some sweetness for balance.

Because we're going to be selling that up to you 232.

The restaurant I'm currently overseeing. And then the pork wine demi and dehydrated crispy shallot brings in that crunch. Yeah, well done. These are delicious dishes. And I think the photography came out good.

Hopefully, my videography is going to hold the weight. Next to Mr. Hernandez. Hey, man, we missed you in New York, buddy. I mean, we did have a blast. I'm going to say it physically beat the hell out of me. But I'm going to tell you it was a blast.

It was it was just five days of of New York pizza. It was what it was. Yeah. I did gain a lot of weight. Yeah, thanks.

Yeah, it's true. So the New York restaurant show was pretty pretty dope. I have to tell you the whole thing was really great. Busy packed. Obviously we're going to be in California and then Florida.

“You have to make it to the Florida show.”

It sounds like a plan. Yeah, especially in Orlando, right? I got no excuses. But there aren't any excuses and it's right there. Yeah, and you have to be participate in our cinematic antics, if you will.

Yeah, sounds good. I get any of that or nerves.

You know, what are on what station?

Yeah, we'll put you in it. We'll take the chef code off. We'll put you in a tuxedo. Yeah. You'd be good to go.

Penguin suit, New York. You're our rice. Yeah? No, keep the converse. So we're the converse. Yeah, okay.

Oh, like good. Oh, if you can get some tattoos before that. Yeah. And again, some gauges. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, some tweezers. I'll be good to cut. We're bigger tweezers. Bigger tweezers. Yeah, I'm off my apron.

That's. I'm so bad. All right, we're all seeing the vision. Yeah. Okay, excellent.

All right, enough with you. You did good today, man. It's been a while. I know. You know what?

It was a long time coming.

And the week was right. Yeah, we worked out of timing. Because with the restaurant, we're building designing. It's not open yet. So I'm not stuck on a line where I can come hang out with you.

Correct.

“I mean, I know that's what you want to do.”

And I don't plan with you. That's a lot of fun. Yeah, this is great. What we do? Oh, can I say one thing?

No. And regarding the soy silky chicken dish, I did a kind of an honor of a triad association management who I worked directly for. As it has the purple and their logo,

the yellow and their logo and the black. So that's why I wanted those colors. It's so broad on some green to help it pop, but that was my call. All right. So you brought, you actually brought company branding into the plate.

Exactly. All right, brilliant. Without further ado. Oh, yeah. Alex, you're under your welcome to the program.

Thanks for having me. No. Thank you for having me on your show. Right? Because that's really a tile that's went down.

Yeah. So now here you are. It's full circle. We had Delia. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. And that was a terrific, terrific episode. I got to check the numbers, but I think that one hit pretty hard. Oh, awesome.

Yeah. I'll check before we split. Yeah. So welcome. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. Did you have fun today, too? I did. In the food was actually over the good. It was.

We were all unsure. I mean, I want to tell you. We were all unsure. We saw what was going on. And we're like, oh, god.

He's a Johnemy. Yeah. John C. Jason is the three of us were all looking at each other. Like, what the hell is this? They are the black chicken.

Yeah. There was the chicken. There was like, saw these puree. It's pure. He's everywhere.

All right, Alex. You know, we just got back from New York a few days ago. It was nonstop. It was literally standing room only for us. Yeah.

It was crazy. When you look at a show like that, and you know, coming from a social media perspective, what stands out to you is it. Is it the food? Is it the people?

Is it the stories and the brands? Is it the manufacturers? What do you think?

“I think for one instead of people because if I'm looking at two videos and it's like,”

Oh, my god. That is a lot of people. And kind of thinking about like work conferences that I've had to go to. And you're just walking around. There's like a bajillion people.

And they're all there for the same reason. So that part, I was like, wow. That's a lot of people. Obviously the food. I've all been in New York once.

And that was 2023. I think it was. And the food in New York is really good. My husband went. Last year, I think it was to visit a friend.

And he did like a an unofficial pizza tour. He went to, you gotta go to the industry. He got me a shirt from the industry. So I wear it all the time. Yeah, he went to scars.

And he, he really enjoyed it. But another place that I usually recommend to people, they do go to New York. It's called Cuts and Slices. It's a black owned pizza. Pizza brand.

Pizza business. And they had different locations. Like we went to the one in Brooklyn. And it's like a small space. Part of like the size of this room.

Part of this size of this room. But their pizza was so good. And the slices are huge. Like we got three slices.

And I remember one was Oxtail.

And we went to a park. That was our cross-to-street from it. And we shared the slices. And like, you know, I can really just eat pizza. Whatever you want.

You don't have to like, order it. You know, most of the pizza places. That's where I've been there since like. They're early 1900s. Probably.

But like, just the food in New York. And all the food videos that I've seen. I'm just like, I have to get back to New York. Five days. And it was nothing.

But random pizza stops. One of them was scars. And that was legit. That was probably the best pizza I've had. In a very, very, ever.

Except for Ellen B. Pizza.

I've spent when we gardens in Brooklyn in Bensonhurst. Which I think they just got bought out. That was like a 85 year old company. Yeah. And I think recently maybe a year ago.

So, you know, it's under new ownership now. Okay. But other than that place, scars was phenomenal. Yeah, man. So good.

I have to make them take me there next time. It's worth it. It's worth it. And you know what's funny about it? Yeah, like New York's funny place.

It's hard. It's almost hard to find a sit down restaurant. They're there, obviously. Yeah. But when you're walking and you're doing your thing.

Yeah, literally you're walking into like a, you know, 10 by 15 size space. Yeah. And they're just pumping food out. You take it and you go, you know, you go home with it. I kind of tell you, we walked.

I looked at my Apple watch and steps. And there was like 30,000 steps for in what day. Yeah. We want 35 miles. And in it day.

“I think it's one of the days that we were there.”

We walked nine miles. Yeah. At least I walked nine miles. I think you walked more because he, yeah, what he does is, I think that morning he got up and went to,

I think this part of this day. He got up and went to Dominic Anso for little, you know, pastries and baked goods. So his, his steps were probably way more than mine. But I looked at mine that day.

And I was like, I really walked nine miles like that. That's crazy. And it happens fast. I have to, it was so pooch. I like we land.

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And he's like, let's just go walk. We got like three hours to spare. I'm like, okay, sure. And no problem. I don't know.

“I think we walked for eight hours is what I really would have felt like.”

And, and I was destroyed for the rest of the trip. Now, for all the walking I did, you would think, well, you know, buddy lost a couple of pounds or something. No, no, no, no, no, no, man, that didn't happen. I didn't have an opposite effect.

Damn you, New York, pizza. Yeah, we can blame the pizza. You didn't actually come up through a traditional media pipeline. No, you found yourself, you know, with the blogging and creative loafing you were there for a little while.

And then you landed at the zest. When did food stop being something you covered? And started becoming something of your own lane? Mmm, that's a good question. I don't mess around over here.

No, obviously. I would say, oh, say in a sense, I still do cover it. Because sometimes the content that I make for myself, I'll use it for the zest. So, for example, a couple of weeks ago's in Jacksonville

for they have a race called the Gate River Run. And so, my family and I was a kid, we used to do it every year. Like, there's pictures of me and my cousins with our little numbers on running their little, uh, uh, uh, the mile that they have for the kids.

And so, this is the first time that we've done it all together

in a very, very long time. So, obviously, we run to Jacksonville. We ate our way through Jacksonville. So, like, I have the video edited it. I just had a, you know, put the finishing touches on it.

But something like that I'll use for myself and for the zest. If it's on Instagram, I'm sure everybody knows this feature. You can just add whoever you want as a collaborator. You know, it'll show up on, uh, everybody's feet. So, I have some of my feet in the zest feed.

So, I do that all the time.

“And I think last week I was at the Sugar Factory.”

So, I'm still covering food, socially, not necessarily like writing about it like I used to. But it's still there. Um, how did I carve my own lane? Oh, my God. I guess doing it, doing it in the way that,

obviously, doing it in the way that suited me the best. Um, it wasn't something, it was something I just kind of landed in my lap, basically. So, I'm from Orlando.

This was maybe like 2013.

“So, at this time, me and my husband, who's my boyfriend at the time,”

I was like, you know, let's just start exploring different restaurants in the area because the way our work schedules were set up, the only days that we really had together was Wednesday. So, everyone's day, we would go try a new place.

And it's always funny when Facebook memory shows you the different things.

I will say, my food photos during this time were horrible. They were not great at all. But it's, um, it's also a reminder of like, where I started. So, I was like, well, I want to try different places. So, that way when my family comes from Orlando,

I can take them somewhere that isn't a chain restaurant. Like, I want to take them somewhere that they probably had an eating in Orlando or don't have an Orlando. So, then that kind of chilled off to me having a little, what I call a quarter life crisis at 25,

and then going to grad school. Um, because I was like, okay, well, I'm going to go to school. I'm going to go back to school for my masters. And, um, this is what I'm going to study. So, I got my masters and digital journalism.

And I have a certificate of food writing and photography. Because I'm like, okay, we're doing this food stuff. I want to look more legit.

Like, I want to, I want to warn the thing.

So, doing that, um, started interning. I created a little thing in 2016. Right? No, that's a lie. 2017, I'm sorry.

May 2017, I started interning. And then my editor at the time. She was like, hey, do you want to stay on and just like, freelance for us? I was like, yeah, sure.

Okay. I'm glad you guys enjoyed me enough to keep me on. So, I did that from 2017 until like, 2023. And sometimes I have to sit back and just look at everything that I've written. And I'm like, I did this.

Like, the food scene in Tampa.

“Like, it's the way it is like, low key because of me.”

Because I'm writing about these restaurants and chefs and all this stuff. And like, building relationships for myself. Because a lot of the restaurant owners, like,

I'm still cool with, you know, I'm always in their DMs and, you know, on our socials.

But, um, building up a catalog is pretty amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Like, when I look back and I see what we've done here, you know, John with the photography and the podcast and, you know,

now, you know, video and whatnot. It's pretty amazing. It is, you know, and the truth is, and it's not, I don't know if it's low key or not. But at the end of the day, you know,

people like you, people like us. We're shaping narrative. Mm-hmm. Obviously, it's the restaurant tour. It's the chef.

It's, it's that because, you know, they're the ones putting the money in and building these restaurants and doing all of that part, right? But in terms of, like, how are your found?

Yeah. It comes in, in this form. It comes in the form of, you know, podcasting and social media. And people taking, you know, photos and, and putting too much contrast that everything, you know, and, and, and it.

So, you know, in the end with me. That's me, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. That was me.

I learned lessons. Yeah. You know, I was, you know, John beat, beat me up pretty well. Every time I would post them. Where, what are you doing?

What do you hear photos like crazy? What do you know? Well, his photos are crazy. Me, I, you know, I don't have any way. So, you work in food with media.

You work in music with media. Which one do you like better? And, what is it that pulled you into those two, those two categories? So, I guess I was with, I do enjoy.

I enjoy them both, but the zest is like, my baby, like, I, you know, I get real possessive over it. Like, oh, you can't do this. It's mine. But, um, I do enjoy classical music.

And it's funny because like, as I've been working in classical music, it's very interesting because a lot of the songs that I hear are recognized from commercials.

“Or, I think one time I was listening to a song, I was like,”

I think that was in the movie Frantasia, which, I might take myself, but I think I still have the VHS of Frantasia from when I was a kid. Uh, in my house somewhere. But, yeah, like, you recognize these songs and it's like,

oh, my God, they are everywhere. They're not just like, you know, being played in somebody's house, like, they are actually being used. Um, as far as food.

Walking talk media is proudly supported by Rack Porcelain, USA, creating durable, beautifully designed tableware for chefs and hospitality professionals. Learn more at RackPourcelain.com. So what got me in the food was like I was saying before,

I just kind of want to explore Tampa and find out

And, you know, no hate to change a lot of chains,

“but, you know, even somewhere that's local is,”

to me is really cool because you kind of get to know the city a little bit, and actually I did my grad school project on restaurants and some of my heights. So this is 2018. And I went to, I don't know, but join them.

I went to several restaurants doing this video by myself. So, um, food is fun. Food is community. You know, you sit at the table with your, with your family, with your friends.

You know, you might go out for a little cocktail, whatever, what's your, what your friends.

But, um, I always try to find the fun in it.

And, um, I always try to find the fun in it. And I always try to find the fun in it. And I always try to find the fun in it. And also, I will say, it has enhanced my palate a little bit. Um, last year I was having my husband was like,

I want to try more Asian foods. Like, it might have started as like a random craving for like,

“I don't know, orange chicken or something, but it's like,”

I want to try more Asian foods. And the funny thing is once I said that to him, I started getting, I started getting the invitation to like, Asian restaurants and stuff like that. I was like, oh, look at me manifesting.

But, and we were just at, um, if you're in Tampa, you know, the lucky tea guy is very good. They do fill up your food. We were just there yesterday. And, um, I was talking to the owner Julie.

And I was like, hey, you know, this is why I am. She, she remembered me because we, we talked a few months ago. And so, you know, we're both excited about talking about food. And so, she's telling me restaurants. I'm looking at maps.

I'm the map app, seeing where they are. And, you know, I was only there to get breakfast. But I was like, let me tell her who I am because we've talked before. And she probably doesn't remember me. But just from that, now it's like, yeah, this is where she goes.

You know, so stuff like that.

It always keeps working in food, you know, fun and fresh.

Look at you here. I went there, uh, maybe a month ago. So good. It is Lee Wilson from Creative Loving. We met there with Ray.

Okay. And from Creative Loving. Yeah. And, you know, that's kind of where we started talking about what something we might do together. Right?

The food was freaking awesome. Yeah. And it's a tiny little joint. It's a small little place. It's kind of like a, it's actually New York-esque.

Um, yeah. Those restaurants are, yeah. They really, really was.

But the food is right on.

It looks like a real chefy chefy kind of place too. Uh, independent chefy chef. You're not the ACF chefy chef. I mean, I'm looking at you chef, Jason. Um, but at the end of the day, real great place.

And I recommend it if you're, if you hear me. If you're hearing my voice and you're in Tampa. Yeah. Go there. Yeah.

And even, uh, chef Julie, she was so with the black and ears. They have this chef series where every season they kind of have a team of chefs in their, um, their food will be featured during the home games. And so, chef Julie was one of them. So that's kind of a testament to a Tampa and be what kind of food seem we have.

Or it's like, here we are, you know, showcasing this Filipino food alongside, you know, chef Renee from, uh, Oh, my God. What did Renee Renee? From Renee's, um, you know, cruise sellers and different, different places. So the food, see, I will say the food's in in Tampa is super diverse, which I really enjoy.

It's come a long way. I moved up here in 2016. Okay. And it is completely different. The landscape, the food culinary scene is absolutely different than it was, you know, 10 years ago.

Yeah. I mean, when I was in college, the only restaurants I knew were the ones that were on Fowler, uh, by campus and, you know, it was a lot of fast food or like, I was,

“I was saying sometimes I remember like the panda expressed us on Fowler.”

I remember going there and college and that orange chicken. Yeah, yeah, for the orange chicken and it's still, it's still there. It's still kicking the Chipotle and that's on Fowler. Used to go there all the time. And it's, I don't know, it's just, it's just funny to see some of the same restaurants that I

frequent in as, as a little college student. But also, uh, there is a little food scene happening on Fowler, on Fowler, on Fowler, especially over in temperature. So, especially if you're a college student with a car, you can explore just a little bit more than what's near the campus.

Well, all of that, to circle back to what we've been leaning into lately, which is how food and media are living together. And it looks together like intimately. It's pretty, it's very close. Why does food and cameras work so well together in your opinion?

I think. Well, okay, maybe sometimes people want to know what they're eating. You know, if you see a dishes name or what does that look like, and you get to see it.

“But also, I think there is probably a high-end increase in food.”

And also there's so many like food creators, food content creators from the people who cook to the people like me who just, you know, go to the restaurant and all that stuff. But obviously, people love food. And there's so many different cuisines and so many ways to make a dish.

You know, it's always cool to see, you know, maybe chef Jason,

chef Jason's take on pork shanks versus this other person. They might barbecue theirs. You might, I don't know if you can do that. You might fry yours. But it's always cool to see how different dishes can be interpreted or

Innovated from your viewpoint. What actually makes a food story hit. Not theory, then what actually works. That's a good question. I'm not sure where, do you mean like what would make something go viral?

You have all of these different types of food content, right? You have serious stuff. You know, you have like industry in the kitchen.

How to, you have parody, you know, food comedy.

And there's just, I don't know, there's probably two dozen different types of food content creators. Yeah.

“But the truth is, no matter who's producing that, whether it's, you know,”

comedic or serious cinematic, the story has to hit. Right? What stories are you going after? Okay, so for this ask, because that's primarily who I look for people for the show. I feel like a, maybe like the human interest part of it,

definitely if you have a cool story. So what's a cool story for you? What's a cool story for me? Well, a lot of the people, what's a lot of the people. But there's some people in there who I would want on the show.

And I've engaged with her content.

Like there's there's one woman she's a baker. I've eaten her food plenty of times. And I'm just like, oh my god, we have to get you on the show. She makes like vegan, gluten free baked goods like cookies and donuts and stuff like that. I'm, I'm neither one of those.

But I will gladly spend $60 on your on your cookies and whatnot. Because they're, they're that good. And what I think is, you know, we've, we've talked about on the show before, where like the vegan food landscape is different. I feel like I'm rambling right now, but I got it.

Who is it? Oh, I'm sorry. I want to know who we want to know who it is. I don't even know what you are. What nobody with the audience does not see is that as she's talking and building up the anticipation. And you're just like, I'm staring like in, I'm through her.

Like in her eyes through her and I'm waiting and I'm kind of like with my hand, I get her on like the hell is it? Her name is Gabby Bakes and she has a little storefront in some of the heights and she'll do. It's not a storefront where you can just go up and buy stuff. She'll have different drops.

I think she's taking the stuff back for a little bit just to kind of like breathe a little bit. But she'll do drops and her stuff will sell out immediately. Like if you don't buy the stuff right when you get the text, you're screwed. But people like her because I'm like, okay, well, you know, I feel like they're still the sentiment that, you know, vegan food isn't that great.

What is like, no, like, I will eat all of your cookies and your dessert. Um, another person is another person I've been interested in having the show. He's a local rapper. His name was Tom G. I was listening to his stuff probably when I was in high school in Orlando. Thinking I'm cool because it's like, oh, I listen to Tampa music.

They don't have that here. But he owns, um, silo food truck is called Snacktrap. So it's like, okay, cool. What a huge story. We have this local rapper turned like, you know, entrepreneur restaurant tour.

“If you want to say that, so, you know, stuff like that.”

That's cool. Yeah. Or we've had the talent and he's doing a good job. No, yeah, he is. He is. Um, in his, his truck is not far from my house.

So I see it a lot. Um, so stuff like that. Or, you know, John, if back in the late 80s and early 90s, if we were in open a food truck, it would have been loaded with, like, 2,000 wants worth of amps.

Um, 15s, 12s. Yeah, you know, horns, the whole thing, man. Push, you know, maybe the Kenwood or a plane.

Yeah, yeah, back in the day.

Yeah. I got two subwoofers on my car right now. You guys just started. We got two, 12s and my view like on-core. I thought I heard you pulling up.

Oh, yeah, that was me. I thought I heard you. I'm, I don't know, you know, dirty South County guys. Oh, yeah, I, I had you for that. Yeah, I really didn't know East Coast West Coast.

Yeah, all right. That's still a thing. I don't think it is. I don't think it is. I don't think it is.

No, I'm really other mumbling. It's wild. My kids mumble a lot. Support for walking talk media comes from crab, island seafood dip creating chef driven crab dips made with real seafood and bold flavor.

Learn more at crab island seafood dip.com. Jason, you've been on the show before and, you know, we've been talking a lot in the last two weeks leading up to today. And you mentioned something about, um, you realized that you had a flip a switch. And you had to learn how to shoot your food. You had to learn how to, because you already know how to cook your food.

You're not a plate your food.

And I know that you're, your, your, the guy that says, uh, you're always forever the student.

So you're forever learning. And I respect that. But then you said, you know what? I'm not a kid. And I have to keep up with the times.

What did you do? I had to keep up with the times. I mean, uh, so I'm at that funny age, you know, born at 79. I'm 47 now. And I saw all of that social media kind of creeping on me.

And I was like, I don't get it or why am I going to do it. But like, I said earlier, my intro, like, I literally had a go daddy website with like 20 cheesy photos on it. And like bad looking bad lighting was bad. And then when you start seeing the, uh, the entrepreneur is in behind it, right?

“We, you know, as a young aspiring chef or a young cook, you have to sell yourself, right?”

Got to sell the food. You got to sell yourself. And the Instagrams and the Twitters and all the stuff I still learning about is a way to sell yourself. So I had to do it. There wasn't like, am I going to do it, right?

I had to do it. And then now I have to, like, 1200 photos on Instagram, right? I got a whole 500 followers on blowing up, right? And Instagram famous. Yeah.

But I got a lot of beautiful photos. Like, I look at some people's Instagram accounts. And they're like kind of a joke. Yeah.

And I'm like, this guy's got like 10 million followers.

And like, looking all in my work. I know. The spent hours, years. Curating your future rating, my artistry. Well, just so you know.

And obviously, I'm, I'm one of your 500 followers. Okay. So I know what to work you do. You're like, three, I think. Probably.

I mean, here's, here's the deal. You put out really great food. It looks great. And it also tastes great. Like, you know what you're doing.

I try. You. With the effort you're putting into all of your Plating your photography, the things that you're doing.

“You have to learn like the mechanics of the engine of the internet of the social media of things.”

And that's, I think, where you're, I think that's maybe where you might be. Yeah, I'm blindering maybe. And I don't want to say floundering. And that's real strong. At the end of the day, there's a, there's a, there's a flow.

Right. And you have to tap into that flow. 100%. And there's ways to do that. Right.

Yeah. But in terms of you being in this industry for as long as you have. And it kind, I don't want to say coming full circle. And you're, you know, you're bringing the now into your life. Yeah.

Into your culinary life. Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah. And I respect that because, honestly, this guy's got more, he's got more, like,

curated, put together, um, photo shoots. Yeah. Then the most people I've seen out there. It's, I mean, what we did today, it's exhausting. It's hard work.

Like coming in here and having to get together setting out like what you guys do. Like extremism of what I do in my home.

“But I do it in my own kind of little weird way, right?”

I have my lighting set up. I have my stuff, the things that I do. And now I'm now spending an entire day. I'll spend, you know, 50. So I was doing $100 a public, right?

I come home, make one play to food. I don't want to eat after playing with it. Yeah. And it's, uh, it's a trip. So when somebody says food, extremism.

Yeah. Yeah. That's us. Yeah. John.

Right. Well, I'm going to call myself out because sometimes. And what I do struggle with when I'm just going to be straight here with. The Instagram is, I think it's easy for me to get removed from. Does it taste good?

I came in here joking with you about that. Like, hey, this is photography food. And you were calling me out saying, no, it better taste good. And I respect you for that. And I don't want to go down like the AI rabbit hole too much.

But does, I've had people say, like, hey, your food. Is this AI? Yeah. I just like in the past six months because AI is becoming a point of topic. I'm like, it's almost like a compliment.

Like, wow, does it look like it's, you know, cheated and fake and AI? But, like, you, you held me to that. And that's what you do in this show. That the food's got to look good. Of course, the plating's got to be beautiful.

But the food's got to taste good.

I mean, Alex is not a joke.

I mean, it's a joke. Yeah. She is a figure. No, it's the truth. Listen, zest and PR.

The whole thing.

“And you know, it's a big, it's a, it's a, it's a part of the circle of life.”

Of corner yards where you got the chef. She got the podcast. She's got the people that are writing about it. You said the old point of the show today is talking about that. The circle of kind of we all scratch each other's backs.

Del web miniola. You're building inside a system. Mm-hmm. You're not just doing your own thing. So you have to balance.

You have to balance creativity. Mm-hmm. And also, you've got to make money for these people. Oh, of course. Right.

How do you build that structure? Um, the, so just to give a little background of 55 plus community, where we have this beautiful, it's called the Fista Club. It's a beautiful amenity clubhouse that has, um, the restaurant aspect called view 232.

So, you know, very upscale casual, but yet upscale. And it's, you know, 55 plus communities. Not what it was 20 years ago. We're not talking like golden girls, right? Remember golden girls, you know,

here everybody was already like kind of older looking. Now we're talking about very youthful 55 year old people. And it's my job to take care of them food wise. And I get the, and I'm in the, I call the romantic period. You know, we're like, I already have all the Metro show me an air,

which I love. There was so much Metro show me. And I thought of you immediately. And I'm like, look at all this stuff. It's every.

It's in every walking. It's in dry storage. It's in like the hallways behind the bars. Metro Metro Metro. I was like, geez.

Now I loved, I love a sound of that. Well, you know how you think? I don't know what the systems call. We just pop the racks up. You run them to the dish machine.

It said a little bit in them. The old metal ones just rust in the walk in and fall in the food. You know, the rust particles. But it's, so it's, it's that romantic period I call it. Opening buying the smallware get everything together, playing in the menu,

keeping the resonance happening in the neighborhood. John, I can't believe that we're part of that youthful. Get those close to that youthful 55. I can get you in with one of the sales reps. You know, gives me get you a discount.

You know, I'm looking for senior discounts now. I mean, that's really high. Oh, my God, it's horrible to say these things. Really, it's terrible. Oh, my goodness.

Back when I was your boy back in 1993. So on top of all of these things that you're doing at the new gig.

“You have to still think about how this food looks.”

Because like you just said, this isn't your father's old mobile. This is, this is something else. You still have to have the sexy food. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And you're, you're in, too. So here's the good part. Because truthfully, we're talking about gen X's, right? Now, that's the age group that's moving into this to 55 age.

I get whatever. I got, we're cool. We're just cool. We're easy going. We want things really smooth and just to be quiet about it.

But the truth is, we want to look pretty.

You know, we, we, we, we've taken our lashes, man. And you know what? Like, we just want what's nice. Now, so it's a guy's and gals like you, that are going out there. Hustle and up the good dishes, making it cost effective.

And yes. Pretty. Wait, would you say cost effective? It has to be cost effective. It has to be.

Yeah. So, I think a lot of chefs struggle with that. You know, that's like I'm at all the topic. But I said, I'm doing, I'm costing everything. How's the food going to look?

Even learning the clientele, or it should say the residents that's coming into the clubhouse from working in this romantic period I call it of setting up. I have to think that there's chefs out there today. And I don't know what bracket age bracket wise. I'm just saying, I know there's chefs out there today.

That are wrestling with how their food looks, you know, on social media. Mm-hmm. Has much or more than what it tastes like. Yeah. Agreed?

No. I mean, 100%.

“And that's how I went there a little bit about that.”

Where like, like an amazing bowl of chili, right?

And I think about the chili, it was made, maybe let it sit overnight in the fridge. And next day, heat it up, and it's even better. Like those flavor profiles are really come alive. In all of a new cooking, sometimes we can get so kind of, I'm by myself. I got to hear this.

Is what are the colors? What are the accutrum loans? How much stuff am I going to pack on the plate? Right? And that's where I still come from trying to pack too much on the plate.

And doesn't even marry sometimes. We get a little too, you know, crazy sometimes. Alex. The way it looks is super important. The way it tastes, also, obviously, super important.

You heard the question about chef Jason. Where does it land? For me, I think it's how it tastes. It has to be because, you know, you can look good in that taste good. But I think ultimately people care more about what it tastes like.

Because like, yeah, again, you can see the picture of you can see it with your eyes. And you kind of like, hmm, maybe not. But when that's my point, if you're scrolling socials or you're on one of the food apps or whatever.

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“But if it looks like sloppin' a plate, they're going to scroll on by and not make it in the door, right?”

I mean, so, yes, I agree with both of you. I think flavor is where it's at. But, you know, what equally is important is how it looks because I did. If you're scrolling and you hit some, you know,

utterly duckling dish, you're just, you're never going to go, you're not going to go there.

Right. But if I see it, and I'm like, hmm, that looks good. Like, my interest is peaked a little bit more. So, then I really want to see, okay, it looks good. That doesn't taste good.

And does it look like what you're seeing? Yeah, it doesn't look like what I'm seeing. Because we want to be deceived. We don't want to be deceived when we're coming in, looking for whatever dish they're interested in. So, yeah.

I know in my life today with what we're doing with Walk and Talk Media and the whole thing. I have to be, it has to be engaging visually for me to want to go to that place. Hmm. Period.

And if it's not, I'll get around.

To, yeah, like, business and suburgency. I haven't, 100% of that. Yeah. Yes, no. It is that.

And before I go too far into this, actually, we're very far into this. But, man, I just want to say, like restaurant events, LLC, Glenn, Paul, Andrea, Steven, the gang. All Amy, all the people over there who make that show go. Thank you.

Because the fact that we're participating and doing the things we're doing with the group at their trade shows in New York, restaurant show, California, restaurant show, Florida, restaurant show. And the pizza tomorrow, son, it freaking awesome. And I just want to put that out there as a big thank you for that. Yep, set out to the big shoutouts.

Alex, you've seen what's been going on in the news with Noma and, you know, not just how, like that bomb that dropped there, but the food industry, it's a hard industry. It's hard to stay in business. It's hard to stay on the cusp or the forefront, if you will, of food and make money. Hmm.

Are we the public?

“Do you think we're asking too much from chefs and the restaurant industry at large?”

Hmm. That took a good question. Because I'm thinking about myself. I'm like, you know, what, what am I asking chefs, you know, on this set out of four, when it comes to food, I think.

I guess thinking about it as a consumer.

I don't want to say like the public's duty, but like, I think there's always going to be a piece of

criticism in whatever that the chef does, right? So, you know, you get to play the food and it's not necessarily to your liking. You don't mean it in a rude way, but just like, hey, if you do a little bit more of this or a little bit more of that, then you know, your dish will probably be fine. Ultimately, I think if the chef or restaurant tour or whoever is over the restaurant,

at the end of the day, you want to make money and you want to make your customers happy. So, it's best if you do listen to the customers or listen to the public and what they say. Obviously, some people probably just say like some crazy stuff. For example, my husband used to work at barbecue place and I don't think it's opening anymore, but it was it was it was owned by a family member of his and they did great work.

Because that my old job is funny because a couple of my coworkers had been there and they enjoyed the food. And you always say Robert, he's my husband. And you always say like, they would get like all these accolades and all these other praise for like their call of greens, but then you would have like one person who would say like, "Oh, you're telling me to use your two-splacing."

And it's like, "Do you listen to that?" It's like, not necessarily like, "No, you don't listen to that." Because like, if the majority of people are enjoying, I don't know, that was a crazy thing. No, I like the mocking, that's what I sound like. All right, the guy like one guy got 1,000 people love and one person.

Yeah, so it's like if you have all these people who love it and then you have like this one person's like, "You know, you know, change it." Like, I'm not going to listen to that, but no.

“I think you take it into consideration at a respect, right?”

And then just put that one under the rug. Yeah, if it makes sense, you know, either you change it or you don't. But I sometimes people just have weird requests, I guess. Chef. Are we asking too much of you guys?

Yes. Yes, with the margins we have, what's I think, called COVID,

I mean, think about it. So it's supposed to be a business first, right? We want to make money. We hope to make money, right? We think we're going to make money.

I owned a restaurant for three years. A little deli named after my late father. I played restaurants for three years. I broke even. I paid my landlord. I paid everybody. Except me.

And it's part of what I do know what I was doing. The town was still growing. It's a combination of things. And me not raising my prices, right? So there's a bunch of stuff that came together in that.

But it's like, it's endless work. When you're lucky to get that 7 to 10% of the dollar. And then the yelp was kind of big when I opened my restaurants. Yeah, I went down back then to the yelpers and having to keep them happy. Bags and cookies out the door and not trying to get any bad reviews.

So sure. It was like starting to kind of come around more than yeah back in the day.

Look at crazy on me. Oh, yeah. Yelp would always be like they were almost kind of blackmail you in the using them.

And if you didn't, they were kind of like you've given you to undone. There's a whole yelp thing. Anyway, so scared of yellow bell scared of my customers. Keep everybody happy right on miserable. So yeah, like it's not easy.

This is, but this is why the chain restaurants reign supreme because they have a thousand locations. And 30 can be failing. Some are doing good, but mom and pops like my hats off to any. And today, I don't even know how they do it. Yeah, because it's privately owned. I mean, for me, I'm like, guys, it's $4.

They, I just think about the food costs and everything. Yeah. I was like, oh, God, everything's going to go up. Except for ages. So just asking too much, we got to make sure we document that.

This question is for both of you.

“What part of the food world deserves more real coverage at this moment?”

And what part is getting way too much attention? That was a good question. Who is that being? Do they not know who they're doing that? I mean, I have like an answer, but it might have to be the one they want.

Or what, I, I'd like to see more humanism in it. Yeah, I mean, if you said Jason, like, you could have a dream restaurant right now.

Would it be like a Noma right?

Would it be like, could I go for Michelin? Or could I have like a restaurant feeding like homeless people? I'd rather do that. I, I said that earlier. Like, I've worked in the soup kitchen volunteering.

And I've, I've served Barack Obama, right? Beyond that, I'd rather serve the people struggling. Because there's, I think, there's a sense of that. The humanism, like you said earlier, even in store, easier. I'd like to see that, you know?

I think there's, like, mind joe. He has a restaurant in England. Yeah. Right. We're talking about bond joe earlier.

It does have a restaurant. He feeds people. And I don't know. I just, I guess I want some more of that. Because I, I really believe we feed people.

We don't remember its energy. And it's, it is love not to sound cheesy. You know, grandma fed you because she loves ya. Yeah. But it's like humanism.

I, I love the Michelin.

I love the hoidi to hoidi.

I've chased it for years, right? But like, what's, I don't know. Take care of people more of a food. I don't know. No, yeah.

I think that's the good thing. But like I just sit here and said, you're all wanting too much. And the margins are too tight. I need a billion there. Yeah.

The billionaires out there. I want to sponsor me to get it for you. Oh my god. Who truck? I already got it.

It's called breaking bread. I already got my proposal. Yeah.

“But I think I think that was a good response.”

I think I don't know. I think once the community aspect is increased, then, you know, eating. Four out of five hospitality professionals have faced at least one mental health challenge during their career.

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at the burnt chef project.com. Can be more fun and less stressful to some people. Well, even what she said earlier with, like, so everything now COVID turned into, like, like, dying or what's it called?

All what's all the home delivery companies I don't use, or what is getting food delivered or how now? It is about sense of community. Like, you said in Tampa, people are getting the know.

Like, think about the old days. We go to restaurants. You kind of like know people. You think about like cheers. Yeah, he was normal.

He was an alcoholic, but norm came in. Everybody went norm. Showing my age. Beal. I'm going to Google what's cheers.

Everybody just tuned out. Everybody just changed the chat.

“But we need that like, let's go to restaurants, right?”

Because when you look at what's going on. Young people aren't getting motorcycles. Young people aren't getting drivers license. Young people aren't going the restaurants as much. So we're losing some of that community.

Yeah. So here's the thing. As you wrap up here. What you said, Jason, I wasn't expecting that answer.

And I 100% agree with that line of thinking.

is to be in a position where I can just go feed people.

Wouldn't that be cool? Yes. And not just everybody. Rolls Royce to no shoes. I just want to be able to feed.

“Because that's like the best feeling, right?”

And you know, we've all had that thing. That story where we've given somebody that was needing. And it's just, it's like a Christmas when you give more than you get.

It's always that better feeling.

Yeah. Like I have, you know, the homeless people who are like, you know, begging out of a red light or something. Like I, you know, if I had a bag of chips in my car from, you know, getting a sandwich or something,

it's like, I don't really need the chips. So like I'll just, you know, I give them do the person.

“Because it's like, you definitely need this more than I do.”

And it kind of makes me feel good.

Because it's like, I don't know. Like they definitely don't know when their next meal is coming. And just to be able to, you know, give them the opportunity to have a meal or to have some sort of nourishment in their stomach before. Yeah.

Before they can actually, like, All right, what's it we all just do? Those just go up on a restaurant and feed them almost. Well, here's the thing. And I know that with John and I at some point that is going to happen

“honestly, and not necessarily a restaurant, but there's going to be feeding of people.”

That's coming. All right, listen, everybody, it was awesome here today. Chef, like, what you, you cooked up some really great stuff. Alex, I'm thrilled that you made it here. And I think we had a really great day today.

Yeah, it was fun. How do you define you? Okay, you can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Ali O'Malley Cat. If you are old enough, you can understand the risk of cats reference there. You can follow the zest at the zest podcast, that's Facebook and Instagram.

You can also follow my blog, TheFrogalistaLife.com. Follow me on YouTube at the FrigalistaLife. And yeah, make sure you like, subscribe, follow all the things. Jason. All right, Chef Jay Lin on Instagram, Chef Jay Lin on Instagram.

You guys are fantastic. John, I can't wait to see the goods. You know what I'm talking about. And listen, everybody. Check out our Instagram.

Okay, at Walk and Talk Show. All right, y'all. Be good. On side too, we are out.