Food Media vs. The Kitchen: NPR's Dalia Colon & Michelin Chef Michael Collantes

chosen to be seen, what gets explained, what gets remembered.

“Today in studio we're talking about content production, editorial responsibility and the”

standards behind food storytelling, Delia Cologne didn't set out to work in food. She started in journalism, print, audio, public media. She followed curiosity, learned production from the ground up and eventually became the executive producer and host of the zest and NPR-filiated podcast produced at the USF campus.

Hundreds of episodes in, she understands something most people don't. Food coverage isn't just about trends, it's about trust and their story here. Chef Michael Columbus was a guest on the zest in 2023.

Today, he's in our kitchen on our team, cooking as we flip the lens and bring that conversation

into this room. Michael operates inside Michelin standards, systems that are measured, evaluated and earned. So today's conversation sits between two disciplines, public media and professional

“kitchens, storytelling and execution, visibility and responsibility.”

Because food isn't just content, it's culture, it's commerce, it's craft, let's get into it. Oh, my goodness, Michael, my boy, Chef Michael Columbus in the house, we did cool stuff today. Caviar two weeks in a row and we need a caviar brand partner.

I'm just saying out there for people who, you know, oh, no one's ever going to say now they've been bringing a caviar to the test studio. I was going to finish the rest of the camp, but I didn't, I reserve myself, which is, you know, bizarre. It comes to food as I am gigantic at this point in my life.

All right, so Mike, what do we cook up today? We did seared scallops, seared scallops with a celery root puree, very classic, truffle, we'd shave a little truffle in there, some plumber genre, a lot of umami. And then we got a little curve ball by our guests. She is vegetarian.

So on the fly we'd study, you know, let's cut the celery root, punch it out, make it look exactly like a scallop, so I did the exact same dish, just vegetarian, with basically just cold-feet it very, very slow in the flying oil. And then based it just like a scallop with butter and then a little bit of a parmesan rung in the butter to give it more of like a depth of flavor.

What really gets me, whether it's on the media production side or on the restaurant side,

there's curve balls everywhere, and there's always something that pops up and we had

to do some audibles today. That being one of them, when you're able to plate three different dishes with the same ingredients and they're all beautiful, that's a skill set man, and you, you have that. Curve balls happen at the restaurant all the time, yes, so they relaunched our five-year menu at the second.

That was 20 new dishes in one swoop, one day, 20 new dishes by 14 members and it was almost flawless and it was very, very close. And then we read that and change, and Japanese we call it omitmashi, which means like a wholeheartedly taking care of someone that's Japanese hospitality, so we have a guess in the house and studio, you know, I'm not going to make something she can't eat, you know,

we preach it, right, if whatever, any cook, any chef makes in this house, it has to be available, which sometimes is an issue for John who's taking photos of, you know, pretty plates because you can tweak things, right, but you know, having a guest here that is vegetarian,

“I was like let's figure it out, let's show them, right, the best way that she has to”

try the food, what it's been like two, three years since the last time we got to do a black guest together. So, well, I'll tell you what, there's that, that rack pours long black plate with the gold trim. Oh, yeah, yeah, that dish is my favorite for the day. It's, it is so food sexy. It's literally two things on the plate. I mean, we decided to plate multiple ways

just to see how it was. And as a chef, right, that's how the guest eats and how aesthetically pleasing. I don't, I usually stay away from the gold, the gold plates, but it really reminds me of my time at where we shall be. We had a lot of gold plates. It's a very, very old school Parisian French and that was like perfect. Well, look, man, whatever you're doing, you're doing it right. And the fact is, you've

been here almost every week since Jan won of 2026. Bro, I'm, you want to say hi. I mean, we, as a team, this is such a cool thing that we're doing. And I don't see this happening anywhere else. The set up and the lineup, that happens. It's really, it's fun and it's

to cook. And then I told you that dish that we did last week is now on the menu this week

“at Soseki, which is crazy. Just coming from every time I bring something to the table”

for us to cook here, I don't really know what I'm doing, which I know drives you and John but it's also just figuring something out and then I get to really spend time to explore it at the restaurant after it's done. So that's pretty cool. But yeah, I've been here since January. I mean, this is episode 188, right? Is that correct? Yeah, I want 88 today. Leaning is a 200. And I mentioned to you and John, I said, you know, it will be really great to do it for 200.

And you guys comment below if you think we should do this. No one really knows your story and the struggles and everything. We need to have that episode be really about walking talk. 200, you know, everything that's brought up to this point and yeah, how it is leaving the jobs and doing podcasting, you know, well, you know, that's a terrific idea. And I think we'll we'll get pooch and house that day. And we should make a thing out of it. I think 200 episodes

is a milestone. Being is how the average podcast, if anybody doesn't know, it's three episode. Three episodes. And you're selling your equipment on, you know, Facebook Marketplace.

“That's how it works. I think my podcast lasted six, so a little bit of average.”

You are above average. All right. Let's get into the day. Let's let's usher on our guest, Delia Colone. Welcome to the, I want to say welcome back almost because we, you know, I was on your show and it feels like that kind of vibe. It's all very interconnected. You were on the zest. Mike was on the zest. Now I'm on your show. So thank you for having me. Oh my goodness, you know what? Thank you. Appreciate you. Like, did you have fun today? By the way, oh my gosh,

this is a blast. I'm the cook in my house. I don't get to sit at the counter, be served. Have someone wash the dishes and ask me my opinion on, you know, all these, these highfalutant topics. So this is great. This is fun. It's really cool to see behind the scenes. I'm very glad that our mutual friend introduced me to you. 100% hashtag, Carla, just saying, you've got to cut some stuff today. You actually participated in the cooking. I did. Did you expect that? Like,

isn't this the coolest thing ever? I don't know what I was expecting because on our podcast, the zest, we talk a lot about food. We interview a lot of chefs, home cooks, you know, all sorts of food historians and people like that. But we're not necessarily the place where people go to learn how to make a dish. So to be in the kitchen with such a decorated chef as chef Mike, what a treat. I threw him the curve ball that I'm a vegetarian and it was really cool because

I could see the wheels turning a little bit in his mind. And five seconds later, he's like, okay, got it. I know what I'm going to do. And the celery root was phenomenal, phenomenal, so flavorful. It was perfection. If he had a month, he could have made it any better. Yeah, but, and that was,

you said, you know, you never really used celery root before, right? Correct. But isn't it

all being at this podcast? And then like, you mentioned the media, as soon as I've those shallots at that butter, you're like, oh, okay, I'm in the kitchen. That takes you into the kitchen. So that's like exciting about what they're doing here, what we're doing here is you're there. All right, so the fact is this is media, this is podcasting. This is this is all kind of cool stuff. It's food. It's, you know, you if you can't have a good time with cameras and microphones and, you know, frying pans

and scallops, like you're, you're living a different kind of life. Dalia, you produce the zest, your inside a public media newsroom on the university campus, which is really cool. I got to go there. I thought it was awesome. But how does working under NPR standard shaped the way that you approach food storytelling at large? Oh, great question. I mean, okay, it's NPR. We don't use four letter words,

“you know, we, we keep it, uh, family friendly. We keep it to the NPR ethical standards. But I think”

more than that, knowing who our audience is, makes me want a dig deeper because these are not the

people who want the 10 second sound bite. They really want to understand something. They want to

analyze it and that inspires us to go beyond the surface. When we started this podcast, 13 seasons ago, it was, how do you make a Cuban sandwich, you know, those, those sorts of things, which you have to do in Tampa Bay. But now it's more about the food ways than the food. So not just

of those things? And that's really become an interest of mine having, having evolved along with this

podcast. Well, as sure you're building your audiences like staying with you and you're kind of maturing with your 13 seasons in, right? The same audience said, that was their interest is really, you know, they want to be one of the deeper things of the podcast, which is great. It's kind of same thing that we've found in Soseki, our anniversary, five years. The guests that's been with us throughout this whole time, they could see that progression and like that storytelling. Yeah, I feel like

I grew up with this podcast because I have a journalism background and I kind of feel like I came

into food podcasting through the back door because I was invited to be the producer and I was

more behind the scenes and then I became the executive producer and the host. And I used to say all this time, like I didn't do it a culinary school. I don't, I'm not a chef. If somebody brings up a term and I don't know what it means, I will ask because I'm the advocate for the listener and it's like no listener left behind. But now it's interesting because 13 seasons in, I know a little something. You know, I've written a cookbook. I've been a judge for the James

Beard Awards. I've worked on other food-related projects and I'm still thinking about

“Dilea from 13 seasons ago because there's always a new listener who's going, what's that?”

I've never had celery root, you know, and I never want to leave that person behind.

Celery root is one of my most favorite things. Like ever, a puree. Oh my god, I can eat it. So I will take that over mashed potatoes anytime and I can murder mashed potatoes. Okay? Look at me. You, you see, I can, I can put away the taters, okay? Social media is a funny thing. There's the algorithm of it and we're all kind of living in this to shadows of the algorithm. And my gosh, how do I plug into that? And you know, what is it? It's the the man behind the curtain, right?

Public media isn't really driven by the algorithm, the way that other commercial platforms are. How do editorial guard rails protect the integrity of what is done on public media, meaning it doesn't, it doesn't plug into the algorithm. I mean, we pay attention to the metrics. We need listeners just like anybody else. We need social media followers to find us just like anybody else. But I think it causes us to pause. I'm not going to say we don't try to move fast, but we don't

run after every shiny object the way some other media outlets might. And so I'm less concerned about, like, where's the cool new place to have brunch? And I'm more concerned about, you know, chef

“Mike's story. That's why I wanted to talk to him. Like what sort of a few layers deeper than maybe”

what you're getting from other media sources? When I think of public media, I just think it, it lives. It's, it's its own, it's its own engine. Everyone knows it's there. It's readily available. And you know what you're going to get. And that's what I mean. It, it isn't necessarily driven by, well, we got four comments and 15 minutes. And now the algorithm is going to kick, kick the can down the road for us. It isn't really that. People pay attention. And it's a pretty

interesting thing. When Carla connected us, I'd heard of your podcast, but I didn't know it. When I did the deep dive, I was like, wow, this is a pretty dang cool. Thank you. Yeah, well, you know, at the end of the day, when I look at other media outlets, support for Walk and Talk media comes from Metro Food Service Solutions, trusted by kitchens that meet storage and workflow that actually does the job. Learn more at

Metro.com. And when there's a peer who will, you know, allow you to participate on that particular platform, it's just flattering. It's humbling. It's quite nice. So for us, having you here, it was the, it was the, it was the other effect. It was like, you know, oh, I can't wait

“for the lead to come on our show and to reciprocate that. Yeah, I think there's like a mutual”

respect and admiration because working for the NPR station, and I also have another role at the PBS station in Tampa Bay, people respect public media. They cherish it. They have memories of it from when they were a kid. They trusted. That's a huge thing. They trust us. So a podcast like the

they've never heard of NPR or WUSF. And that's OK, too, because now, you know, we get to have another

“seat at the table. Well, I am such an equipment nerd, dork, if you will. So for me, it was like,”

oh, I get to go to the campus and the studio's on campus. This is so cool. I was, I geeked out. I was, I was, I was definitely that guy. Well, I'm that girl today. I'm geeking out here. I love it. So you've been doing this a while. You've mixed and produced over 300 episodes. I know what that's like. I absolutely get it. That's like half of your life gone in them like that. When you put it that way, you know what I'm saying. Yeah. When you're editing a voice in your headphones, what tells

you a story has weight and what tells you if it's just surface or superficial? I'd say what I'm doing right now, which is pausing. Because that tells me that the person is thinking about their answer

that I've asked a question, maybe they've never been asked before. I love it when somebody says,

oh, what a great question. And I actually have a background also in education and in teaching, they call it weight time. When you ask someone a question, when you ask the class, and nobody's hand goes up. You don't panic. You don't, you know, tell them the answer. You give them time to process. And what I was saying earlier about how everything is so fast in mainstream media in public media, you know, you turn on fresh air on your radio later. You're going to hear

pauses. You're going to hear silence for a second that makes you go, ladies or something wrong with

“this broadcast? No, the person's thinking. We like intelligent answers in public media, you know what I mean?”

And so when I'm editing and I do have to give a shout out to my colleague Andrew Lucas who edits the raw interviews and then also Alexandria Abron. But I'm the first and the last stop, braw, the interviews. I mix the show and and upload it to our website and all of that. And so when

I'm re-listening to the show, I'm always listening for those pauses. When we're doing the initial

interview, I'm listening for that moment that like makes the hairs on my arms stand up. You know, that little ding ding ding moment. And I think there are a couple of those in every interview, because yes, we're talking about food, but food is connected to literally every other part of our life. And so there are so many great insights that come out. A lot of times when I'm interviewing guests, I feel like I'm in a therapy session. So I just love it. So I agree with that 100

percent. And frankly, every time I say, every literally, each podcast we do, I say, wow, this one's going to stink. I do every time. It's just the thing. I don't ask me why. It's not because of the gas or anything. It's just I always feel like, man, this is the day where everything falls apart. It's something I wrestle with. But when I actually get into the editing and we start building it out and putting it together, you know, cutting out

the dead space, but not too much, because you've got to give it, you've got to have some, it has to breathe. The sentences and the thought has to, you have to give it time to formulate. And that's interesting right there, because in today's world where it's like seven second swipes on your social media or whatever, long form media, podcasting, things like this, it's, it's difficult to edit and allow that space, because everyone thinks it should be rapid, just rapid.

You know, so I get it. And Alex is going to be on the show in a couple of weeks. Yes, Alexandra Abron, she's great. Public media is kind of like the theater kid who dresses different than all the other kids who buy their clothes at the mall. Public media is like the kid who buys their clothes at the thrift store and like, you know, cut some apart and sew different things together.

“I think there's a confidence you have to have to not chase after what everyone else is chasing”

after to not shorten those pauses. When you know, you could lose someone's attention and maybe there are a few people who will turn the channel, but you're sticking to what you believe in and you're staying in your lane, because you believe it's what's right and there is an appetite for this longer form journalism. You didn't start in food. You came up through journalism. So you're your kind of an outsider and you're perspective and you're and your influence. I mean,

how does that allow you to cover chefs and restaurants in a way where it's, it is that different angle like you're talking about? I like being an outsider. I like asking questions that I know

question. I will come at it from an angle that maybe the other person is not prepared for. There's

“a flavor summit in Orlando where people from the food and beverage industry, you know,”

Coca-Cola and these big companies are all getting together with these University of Florida food scientists to talk about how they can use AI to make us crave Dubai chocolate and all these things. And I was interviewing Dr. Yu-Wang from the UF IFIS, which is the University of Florida Institute for Agricultural Studies. I was interviewing her last week and I could tell by her answers that she wasn't expecting me to ask some of the questions that I asked. I wasn't just going through

the press release that I had been sent. I wasn't just asking like the sciencey questions, but I was asking questions like how come everybody but my dad like cilantro and my family? And like why are my kids so picky? And you know, I've noticed that some people when they get older they

“start putting more salt on their food. I like cheese and corn, but I don't like Doritos. Why is that?”

And she was having a blast. I could tell. And she was saying, oh my gosh, you're asking such

interesting questions. And that's because I never read the manual about what I'm supposed to ask.

I guess. And so I love being an outsider. I ask questions that like, or maybe a couple degrees off from what the person was expecting. And a lot of the people who go on podcasts and other shows are very media savvy. They have canned answers. They could kind of, we were joking earlier about Mike's car, how it has like a self-driving feature. They can kind of put themselves on autopilot and just like cruise through the interview. But you can't really do that with me because I'm asking

you stuff that maybe you've never thought about before. When I was on the show and you asked me about how to make sushi at home easier. And then I said, just buy the rice from your right favorite sushi or something. But that was it. I've done a lot of these interviews, especially when

I was doing a lot of TV on, you know, food never can stuff like that. And it's it's a lot of the same

or where do you work, who are, what do you have? You know, what you're excited about this season. It's it's a lot of the same questions. And you try to make it gives us the where you try to make it something interesting and out of the box. But it's just easier. There's just going that can of answers that you normally do. So it's nice when you're getting thoughtfully asked questions that are a little bit out of the realm of what most interviewers and who needs to have this

I'm a qualified person to interview people. I need to be called. I tell this to my team. Well, it's the very fact that you are not ready for the position you have is the reason why you're in your position. Oh, that's good. Well, I can tell you something. Maybe you're in a half ago. Two, maybe two years ago. I was invited to sit on a panel and it was at two schools. It was University of Florida and then it was maybe somewhere in Kentucky or Kansas. I forget.

But it was all agricultural students. And it was about 20 kids on this, on the internet call that it was myself and three other media personalities. And it was an open forum and they were asking questions about how agriculture and media worked together. I can't tell you how intimidating that was. But I'm in my 50s. I can't believe it. I'm in my 50s. And these are like 19, 20, 20, 23 year old young adult. And they're asking like, really interesting dynamic

questions through me for a loop. But it was really a great experience. Yeah, that happens on like the great American teaching. You know, my son's in fourth grade and even when I talk to his class, the questions that the kids ask are totally different. And sometimes I'll run through that exercise

“with myself. What would a kindergarten ask? What would Oprah ask? What would a homeless person ask?”

You know what I mean? And just like come at it from all different angles. But that's one of my favorite things about podcasting is that it is longer form. So even if you're talking to someone who has these canned answers, they're going to run out of material and you're going to catch them off guard in a good way. I want them to have fun. So when you feature chef Michael in 2023, what were you looking for in that conversation? What made him editorially worthy for your audience?

that's huge kudos to you. But more than that, I wanted to know, do those awards matter? How

“do they affect your day to day? Do they get the butts in the seats? Which I think now after spending”

some time with you, it sounds like they do. So I was curious about that. And I was also curious. We talked about confidence in a minute ago. The confidence it must take to have a restaurant with only 10 seats. I wanted to know all about that. Do you still have only 10 seats? Yeah, we only had 10. We hit so many questions. Can we bring it in another chair? Like we literally cannot bring it in another chair. So those were the main things. And then

obviously he's a big name in Florida food, you know, on the Florida food scene. And so we just wanted to go a little deeper with it. Well, the history of it too, right? Like you were part of that

first group of Michelin, right, recipients in Florida. Year one, Michelin, it was just a handful

of us locally. I think in Orlando, I think it was four, Tampa, nothing until year two. And then obviously Miami sweep day. But in the same sense, yeah, we were mean. Another chef from chef group were the first Filipino Americans to in the world to get the mission star. Yeah, I was not aware of that. That is pretty stink and cool. Pretty pretty cool. Yeah. It was a chef of the chefs from Casama in Chicago, the same year earlier that year. And then us, the same year

in two Filipino chefs from Orlando. Filipinos represent to like Filipinos stick together and support each other in really strong ways. Well, yeah, Filipinos get well. Well, no, I don't know. You guys are

the funniest people on the planet. There's no question about that. There's always going to be

booze and food and it's fun. Like, oh, yeah, we know this. The first time I get one on the podcast, I mean, you put the microphone in my hand, I'm going to sing karaoke. So it's just part of our culture. What's your karaoke song? Oh, we're saying so. Oh, goodbye, that's fine. That's a good question. See, I like C. C. Well, I'm saying, out of the box question was right, saying so. Oh, my goodness. All right, dude. So what's going to get the same? No, no, no, no, no, not like this. No,

not here. But let me tell you something. That's going to happen without a question. Walk and talk media is proudly supported by rack porcelain USA creating durable, beautifully designed tableware for chefs and hospitality professionals. Learn more at rack porcelain.com. Chef, you've been on both sides, right? You've been the guest on the MPR platform. And now you're

“cooking in the studio with us. There's a difference. They're both great. But what is that difference?”

Being a guest in the now kind of co-hosting it, you know, you don't lose that disney at me. And I think, I'm, you're, I find myself very engaged in all the conversations, but it's still point like, oh, I have to say something now. Because it's, it's very interesting. Apparently, where everything has the guest is coming towards you. And, you know, sometimes, I mean, it does get a little too much. Right? Where it's just about, again, how many stories do I have in the tank before I have to

pull something out? Yeah. So it's, it's definitely different in that respect. But coming from, you know, doing, you know, the, the hosting now and seeing how the sausage is made. I think it's, it's exciting. And you have a little bit more deeper appreciation of just what goes into it. Do you feel more pressure? I'm sorry. I, I can't help myself. Do you feel more pressure as a guest or as a host? Well, I tried to do Carl's job one day and asked the questions. I was like, I am the worst at this.

And I don't have the voice that he does. So I was like, I'm out. But I, I think there's definitely

“more pressure being the host. You, you have to lead in some way. And like, you could tell when,”

you know, I wish we had a camera here and you just watch Carl's eyes go down and he's prepping the next thing and, you know, he's making sure that there has to be a rhythm. Right? As you're hosting these things, as we host dinners and there has to be a rhythm that you follow right? The dance. Oh, I didn't think about that. But like hosting a podcast and hosting dinner guests is similar because you're kind of like the ringmaster of this circus, you're the

cruise director, like you're responsible for making sure everybody has a good time. And on the podcast, it's not just the person in front of you, but it's the person watching or listening. Yeah, I, I bring enough to you, Carl. What do you think? You've been doing this a lot long in the last time. Well, let me tell you something right now. Delete, when when I was on your

program, I never felt so free in my life with a microphone in my face. Oh, it was amazing. You know,

Like, I know the answer, you're super, yeah, you know, you weren't asking me trigonometry questions

on air. Right? That's true. So for me, that was a, it just like such a really great experience. And I am, you know, I'm not on the other side as a guest for you often. I think I've been on two podcasts, right? So sitting here and, you know, you get a, your ball of nerves, right? Because at the end of the day, you have your questions, you know, you, you have your run of show. And you can rest assured that the guest, not maliciously, the guest is going to answer four questions at one time,

“and then you have to sit there and go, oh, my gosh, all the prep, all the work I did, just got”

destroyed. I don't want to insult the guest. So I have to honorable, make some things happen, and fill the gaps. Yeah. That is horrible. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's like a lot of mental energy going into making it good, no matter what. If the guest isn't cooperative, if the guest isn't answering questions as like completely as you would like, you still are responsible for it at the end of the day. I interviewed, oh, she would be good to have on your podcast,

Abby Cheshire. She's on TikTok as Abby and McGalley. And during the school year, she teaches culinary arts for Florida virtual school, like online school. And then in the summer, she works on a private yacht for a family that sails from like Miami and they go to the Bahamas and they go all over and she has a new cookbook. But I was asking her about the pressure of cooking on a yacht. And she said,

“no matter what, like you have to pull it off and you have to make it look easy, they may ask for a”

dessert and there's no sugar on the boat and you have to figure out how to make a dessert. And so that's kind of what you're doing as the host of the podcast and what I do. It's like, no matter what ingredients you're given, no matter what the temperament is of the guest, you have to

turn it into something amazing. My ADD is on fire right now. All right, listen. So first of all,

would you're describing, I when I was in produce distribution and sails for 25 years, whatever, I used to sell to some yachts down in Miami and when they shop off, they're gone, right? They're gone for a month of the time, whatever. So I used to have to go to the warehouse, special trip, grab an order, you know, 15, 20, 30 cases or whatever. I would have to meet on the side of a causeway, right, because that was the only place and it wasn't like they can, it was this whole thing

and these chefs and I was like, they're awesome. I hated being the sales rep because it was like, you had it like literally jumped through hoops, but it was such a gratifying thing to be like, I just, I just, I just off-loaded 15 cases of stuff off of the just right there were, right, there's no dock, it's just, there's a ship and you're, anyway, really, really, great. So with that said, what you're describing is 100% accurate.

I would, uh, man, if I can get on the podcast circuit and just do that and be the guest, my goodness, what would a life that would be? Um, this is a, this is a really interesting gig. Uh, I don't want to say job because it's not, it is a job, but it's not a job. It's a gig and it's, and it's really an interesting lifestyle. This is a lifestyle, not a job. It is a lifestyle, but it is work because we will see you on social media, they say like, oh, you're so lucky.

That looks like so much fun and I am lucky and it is fun, but it's also a ton of work and I don't

always show you, you know, me squinting it, audio waveforms and things like that. Well, you know,

what's also like lucky is that, you know, Michael Clontes is a Michelin star chef. He's lucky. And you know, that John is lucky that he puts out freaking amazing photography. We're all just really lucky. We're all just a room lucky, right? Yeah, there was no, there was no, there was no learn curve. There was no like getting punched in the face. You know, ladies and gentlemen, none of that. Oh, you got that fantastic guest. Okay. Do you know how many emails I had to send? It's a

track that person down. Yeah. So, so not complaining. I love this lifestyle as you call it, but it

“is a lot of work. So you should give yourself credit for that. Well, the only credit I can apply to”

myself is that this was whole thing was a divine download and I was the recipient of of that. So I was I was able to through through that, to see where we are, right? And the people that are that are part of this thing now, especially now and and some of the ones who were here, you know,

on the way. They did and here we are doing amazing things. It's really great. It's a cool thing.

Chef, listening to Delia describe public media standards. Do you think that dubly food media holds itself to the same discipline, chefs are expected to to operate under? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just having this conversation between you two, I mean, this is like sitting at the chefs' counter at some place and, you know, you guys are just talking

“over beers about work. Like, that's what it is. This is, you guys are living in this lifestyle,”

this zone and you guys get the same reaching out to the same guy for a year and a half. And you finally says, yes, like, and you guys said, kind of, you know, we're lucky in these roles that we get to do. It's kind of suck. There's, it's just what level of suck you want to get at right now, right? Like, some chefs are like, dude, I'm doing a thousand covers tonight. This is awful. I'm like, I'm doing ten covers tonight and it's also can be awful, right? Everything can go wrong and also

has gone wrong. So, you know, just to hear that, it's, but the correlation's there, right? Anything you do in life worth living for, worth doing and being proud of, like, we just talked about that didn't when I was cooking. If I'm going to put my name on there, you're stamp on it. It's going to suck because I'm going to want the best. I'm going to, you know, require much, you know, John, do you remember? This was a while ago. When we first started, we went to a hotel.

This is back when we actually went on site and did our podcasts, you know, add a restaurant, add a hotel, and on property. That was when that first, my first episode with you guys was.

You're right. Yeah. Well, right. Then that was a million years ago. We went to a place before then.

“I don't even remember what I had a meltdown. I had a meltdown. We had, this is back when we used”

the cameras and we had the video switch board and, you know, we would run like four cameras. We'd have the podcast set up and it was a lot of work. It was a ton of work to get this set up. The unit, the mixer, like, just decided to be like, screw you guys. I'm going home. And it just, it just said, now forget it. I'm not working today. And I'm trying to figure it out. And, you know, at that time, I was the only one that knew how it worked. And I couldn't figure it out. Not for

the life of me. And I wanted to take the unit and just pitch it off for the balcony of the hotel. They're just right into the street and be like, later, guys, I'm out. I'm totally dumb with this. And I had to get up. I had to excuse myself. And I'm not like that. I have a pretty good tolerance for these sort of situations. I had to excuse myself because I was getting snappy with everybody. You remember this? Huh? 4 out of 5 hospitality professionals have faced at least one

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“Took 15 minutes. I came back. Unplugged everything. I didn't say what I was doing. I think the”

team was probably like what the hell is he doing? He's back and up. Anyway, long story short. Went through that motion. It fixed. It came back to life. And we executed. That was, I know,

I don't forget that day. That day is ingrained in me because I never want to lose my temper or

composure, more importantly, composure ever again. It's so, it's crazy. But these are the things that build up your character in this field. It's the same way. If you're on the kitchen and you've got there's 30 tickets on the wheel that just came in and all of a sudden you're out of an ingredient. What do you do? Do you melt down? No, you figure out the fix and you get it going. Hello, absolutely. There is, like you said with your chef, that was, you know, on the yacht,

you just have to, at the end of the day people pay and you've got to produce. I mean, just like everything. So we don't have the luxury of saying, you know, we'll get to it tomorrow. I don't think you could do that in kitchens. I don't think you could do it in podcasting. I mean, as you said, they were, you have a, you're going to be interviewing Altenbrale tomorrow. That's your one shot. Yeah. It's not like, hey, we could call you back up and restart. Right.

I started my career as a reporter for the Tampa Bay Times. I was an entertainment reporter. And it was

give concert. I've got 20 minutes on the phone with them, that kind of thing. And so I didn't

“really connect those dots until you just said that, but it was actually good training because”

you have this much time to figure it out. Sometimes on the fly and you do all this research and maybe they're a jerk. Maybe the person who you vitalized since you were a kid is a total jerk and that has happened to me. And you still have to figure it out. My God, I hope I hope that Altenbrale isn't that because I appreciate him. The quirkyness, the scientificy sort of, you know, person out, I love that. And if I found out that, you know, in fact, that is all facade, I will be

upset. No, I have faith that he's going to be amazing, but I'm curious, Mike, what's like a moment

that haunts you because I have those in my career where, oh my gosh, I realized that wasn't recording or like Carl just talked about the equipment wasn't working. So is there a particular dinner service that you just like have dreams about to this day? Dreams are nightmares. Nightmares. I mean, there's so many. I mean, even like last night, there's one thing can go wrong and it's, you know, at that level of the added pressure of people having the expectation of what you do,

you know, once you reach a certain point. Also, when you reach a certain price point, too, or not the cheapest guys on the block, we have to, we have to perform, we have to perform. And even last night, brand new menu over 20 courses, all new, we had their winner menu just end the now 20 courses in. I don't want to say what happened, but yeah, you know, whatever, man. So one of me, we actually make the rice for the sushi we make two different types of rice is we polish it in

house. We cook it right before the guests come and it was like a little bit under or something like that.

“And you have to make it all the way with the team. We're just going to use some of the rice.”

We've, yeah, we have for, so we use two different ricees for about eight courses. So we're just gonna use this one rice for the whole thing. In my mind, it's like, when I, when I talk about it, I was just rice, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is really not that big of a deal. How do you polish rice? But, um, so you take a little, uh, file and you polish each rice individually. One kernel at a time. We have, we have 200 x turns and that's all they do. Now that we have a, a Miller, we have a rice

Miller. Gotcha. Yeah. But it's kind of like your on stage, isn't it? Oh, a hundred. Things you're talking

about are things that happen in the kitchen that the guests may never even know about.

And that's you don't, if you don't let them know. I mean, isn't that the whole point that's why John's like, uh, he gives us all these cute cards and points and he has signals for when we're, you know, here in the podcast room. But in the same sense, uh, like one, uh, my main chef, yes, he said, hey, buy me more time. I, you know, we're, yes, the rice thing was like your deal. It's like the rice thing is happening backstage. Oh, yeah. And it's like when you go to

Broadway show, it's okay. We're just going to like stretch the end. You can't say, hey, cut. The chef is going to go on. Let's reset. Give me 15 minutes. I got to, you know, redo this. Now it's, it's, it's us making those little, all the bowls can buy me 15 minutes in that. And I was telling this to the, we have a couple of new kids in the, in the fold during those moments,

what are you going to do? How are you going to react? You know, what's your goal? I always your

that's life. Like if you can't handle the rice, how are you going to handle when you're driving your, you get a flat tire, or your kid gets sick or something like that. Absolutely. This is so therapeutic. I want to leave here in smoke cigarettes. That's it. That's, that's an abject lie. I don't like that. All right, both of you, we live in a culture that rewards speed, Michael, craft takes time. Julia, journalism takes time. Is the pace of modern food media outpacing

“the discipline of the work itself? That's really buffles questions. So do you, Hannah?”

I'm sorry. I mean, I, you know, hey, what's your favorite dish, Mike? Salkos are sushi, bud. So is the work of what we're doing within the four walls of the restaurant? Trump, or Trump, or is it going at a pace slower or faster than what media is being able to push out? Right. It, we're in this media space. It has to, um, it's a, what not a jug or not. It's, uh, it's a beast. It consumes media, food media, social media, it's consumption. It's an engine.

And you've got to feed that thing, man. And here you guys are in the kitchen, right? And you have to work off of craft. Oh, man. When I, I mean, I get so upset at my media team because I'm like, you got, we have to be faster. We have to push out faster, more content. You sure format as we're talking

could use for the next two weeks and then go on to the next thing that I have to do. So absolutely,

I think it's, it's at a rapid pace. We are, as a consumer, just consuming so much information so

“quickly. And I think that's why there are amazing stars that are being risen through, you know,”

TikTok and short format and Instagram. But that's quickly as they're rising, they're falling to the earliest point of having her, um, um, 13, 13 seasons. I mean, to have that longevity, um, and now seeing, I'm at a place in my life and career where it's like, we are hitting our five year anniversary dinners, uh, for the whole month of March, um, to look back and seeing what taking the slow route got us and that really builds foundation. This session of Walk and Talk

Media is made possible by citrus America delivering fresh Florida citrus and juice solutions to food service professionals nationwide. Learn more at citrusamerica.com. Listen to her, her voice, you talk about my voice. But when we had our prep call for her show, when I was on her program, I was thinking, I was like, let a freaking voice. Do you know what I mean? Uh, because it's, you know, there's people who are built for this and there are people who aren't. So everybody has to find

their place. 13 seasons. There's a reason for it. Obviously, she's quick on the draw. She's fast and, you know, mentally. She picks up. She, um, I'm talking like she's not sitting in front of me. I'm loving this. You guys are so nice. But what as you said, too, what you said, the average podcast is three episodes long and they quit, right? Three or five. Three or the five. How many people are just, they just get so disillusioned so quickly, you know, this is not for them that they just can't see the longevity.

This is definitely a craft as is any art form. This is a art form also and you can look at it in a bunch of different ways. If, well, let me say it differently. If you choose for this to be an art form,

“then it is and it becomes craft. If you're doing it because it's a hobby, that's cool. And you know what?”

If you do three episodes and you realize it's not for you, and that's cool, too, right? For those of us who look at this as not a hobby and this is something that is career path oriented, which for me it is and, you know, John, obviously, and actually everybody here at the table, it's something that you take the punches. You realize that there's going to be ups and downs and then you just figure it out and show up again and do it again. In spite of the fact

that sometimes it sucks and it does. Sometimes it really, really sucks. But then you do all the work, you do all the editing, you publish, you listen, and you go, you know what? That was all right. And I feel pretty damn good about it. I mean, 13 seasons later, how many of your favorite episodes or most popular episodes came from? The ones I probably took the most amount of time or that you said, this is going to not do well. It's such a mixed bag. There are episodes that I

thought, oh, this is just kind of filler that turned out amazing. And then there are high profile guests that were hard to get. And those episodes just did okay. But we do a lot of workshops at

WUSF. We offer free podcasting training for people who are interested. And something I always say is

make it sustainable, make it fit into your life. Like you guys have such a good work rhythm here.

“And I think that's why you've been so successful because you're not doing something today that you”

can't reproduce next week. A lot of people go all out on those first couple episodes and then they run out of steam or they realize, oh, I took a week off from my day job to do this. And now I don't really know how to keep going because what happens when I go on vacation or what happens when I'm overwhelmed with work. But what you were saying earlier, Mike, about the pace of food media, it is so fast. And it is a beast that constantly needs to be fed. But we want to produce something

that stays with people for years to come. You know, I was just revisiting the conversation that we had in 2023 in preparation for today. And it holds up. It wasn't a list of the hottest restaurants half of which are closed now. You know what I mean? It holds up. I'm reading a book right now called Indigenous food sovereignty in the United States. And there's a quote that I'm going to mess up.

But it basically says you can prevent starvation without actually nourishing someone's whole self.

that's here today in Gantaro. And I think that's what a lot of the social media content is. And listen, I love to scroll. I don't Instagram and everywhere else. I love it. But it doesn't. It doesn't actually fill me up. This type of conversation does. You. And we, I want to say us here. We do not feed empty calories with what we do. No. And I'm speaking that that is a

“would that be a double on Tongira? But I just do an M&M. I think that's a dead. Okay. All right,”

I'll take it. So what we're doing, we're not, it's not, it's not Doritos. No.

Genereen, it's not that. Because food is never just about what's on the plate. It's also about the

story behind it. And so to sit at the counter here and watch Chef Mike create a vegetarian dish that he wasn't expecting to have to make. I wanted to lick the plate. I've been done with it for over an hour. And I'm still thinking about it. I'll probably dream about it tonight. That's the type of content that I want to produce. Delia, through your Smithsonian and Florida Humanities work, you've studied how communities tell their stories through food. Are we documenting Florida's

food culture with enough depth or is it something that we're just simplifying it? I think we're starting to document it with more depth. But if you ask people in and outside of Florida,

“what is Florida food? I think you're still going to get like grouper sandwiches, kelime pie,”

and those are all great, but there's so much more. So I've been really interested, particularly in indigenous foodways lately in the intersection of like indigenous West African and European, because we don't think about how in the St. Augustine area in Fort Mosae in particular,

that was the birthplace of what we think of as fusion cuisine, because that was the first place

where all of these different cultures were coming together and sharing their foodways. And that's a very deep history that we should be proud of. And I think we should be shouting it from the rooftops. And so what the Smithsonian has done is partnered with Florida Humanities, formerly Florida Humanities Council, and I was invited to be the lead scholar, which sounds very fancy. But we're working with these communities to showcase the story of the community through food,

because what better vehicle than food to tell your personal story, the story of your community, the story of our country. It seems to me, every time we get on a phone call, or every single time,

“there should be something new about you that is like really cool, you know?”

Oh, yeah, I was a judge at the game. Take a step back here, okay? All right, back up, all right? No, but seriously, you do really cool stuff. And you are, and you're very down to earth. And I feel like a peer to peer, if I will, damn you're good. Oh, thank you. You're pretty good yourself. You know, I'm from Cleveland, so we try to keep it low key. Cleveland, rock. Cleveland, rocks. Okay, do you know the hardest thing about podcasting was for me?

Not not dropping, and you know, the four letter words, like having a real letter, not that. Blew around. Learning how to pause and let the person speak through their idea.

That's wait time. Like we were talking about earlier, because there's always more, and I don't

know if you find this, but the second you stopped recording, especially if somebody was nervous. Suddenly, they're just freezer bird. And they say, all this great stuff that the camera didn't catch happens every time. Did you notice when we were filming earlier? Support for walk-in-talk media comes from crab-highland seafood dip, creating chef driven crab dips made with real seafood and bold flavor. Learn more at crab-highland seafood dip.com.

The one main camera is always on. Yeah. It's just, it's running. ABR, always be recording. Always be recording, man. And make sure that the cover is not on the, yeah. Good, and memory card. Memory card. Oh, I've got the horror stories about that. Mike, you mentioned a dance earlier between food and media. So you have food service and you have food media as they mature responsibly over the next decade.

Together. What needs to change today in order for that to happen? What has to change today from food media and how stories are being told? Think back, right? Think back to the first iPhone's. And people are snapping pictures and they have all the filters, you know, on the, on the thing. And now all of a sudden, it was a photographer. And all of a sudden, it's like, hey,

That's super immature in the realm of social media, for media in general. Because now everybody's, now everybody's a journalist. Now everybody's a photographer. Now everybody's like this, you know, I can create mental content. Well, as it turns out, y'all suck. And there is a learning curve to become good or to execute properly. With food, that, that, that, that, that blend of, hey, I have a cell phone that I can do a lot of stuff with.

And I go to this restaurant and wow, this is really amazing food.

I don't know if they're both maturing at the same time.

“Yeah, I think what we spoke about in general of where food is now and the responsibility of how things”

are going in showcasing it. I think seeing more of, like you said, this is more professional. This is a profession, seeing it as something more serious. Yes, the easy to digest content, quick and fast does do the job per se for the day-to-day. But I remember the first time I watched Chef table. And I think everyone had this idea when when you saw Chef's table for the first time and that beautiful music came on and the shots and the b-roll and the slowmo

and the effort was so high. The production level was so high. You could just tell it was, I'm going to showcase this showcase this at the same level as what these chefs are putting on the plane and it matched. And I think that that, I hope, is going to be the direction we go in

“that we see a little bit more of that finesse to tell the story better. And I think that's when”

we started doing walking talk and I came on board was that was always the intent to

it wasn't easy digestible, quick, running on stuff. It was going to be, I mean that they're now the time to film one dish drives me absolutely nuts, Carl. As a chef, we just like to just bang out 100 dishes at one time and then you see the product and then you see John's photography and you're just, I mean, the whole production and set up. I hope that more of the audience really appreciates it because I remember those moments, I remember the first time I saw the Elenia cookbook

and I said, I will work there. I have to meet that chef. I have to see what this is all about when El Boolean at early 2000s have that beautiful catalog every single year of every single dish they make. It sends chills. You know, it changed astronomy. It really did. So that's a hope.

“I think it comes down to trust. I mean, what you're doing at your restaurant on a daily basis”

is rooted in trust. People sit down. They don't know what they're going to get, but they trust you. I didn't totally understand how this process was going to work today, but I trust Carl and I just the whole team and I think it goes back to what we were saying earlier about how people have a trust for public media and they're more skeptical of, you know, this influencer that maybe they've

never seen before, are you? Is this an Amazon affiliate link? Are you making money off of this?

It's like, no, I'm doing this because I'm curious and I know you are too and I want you to come along with me and meet these interesting people who live in our community. And so I think that if we lose trust, then we don't have anything. All right. So that was really awesome. I didn't know you were going to stop so quick. Oh, sorry. I don't know. I know. Because I was going to, I would, I would, what else? No, no, no, no, no.

Yeah. I'm going to pick up and then you and you jump in there. Do you want me to restate something? Okay. No, no, no, no. That was good. That was awesome. Sorry. Your answer was so good that I was like, I don't remember anything that has ever. I was actually wrapped up in what you were saying. I was supposed to tell, I was supposed to give him the, you know, the, the, the, and I didn't. That's my problem. Many times I'm wearing yellow. Versace it. What you lose, I'm like, this is a hotel. I love a podcast

where you sort of forget that anyone's listening. It's like, we're just hanging out having a good time. Absolutely. Now the pressure's on me. See, though, I have to like, here. You're the F on the yacht. Let's know. And the play, baby. Land that plane. All right. So days like this simply make me happy. Okay. Because there's professionals in the room. But not stuffy professionals. We all have the people that we run into that, um, they suck up the, uh, the atmosphere within a space.

Nobody here does that. And I think, and I think today was executed perfectly. Delia. I love what

there's a bunch more to unpack. Uh, you chef Michael. Uh, obviously, you know, you're part of the

“furniture now. And, uh, and that's okay. Uh, you and John are like the, like, the couch and the sofa. I guess,”

I don't know. I'm kidding. John. I guess he has a, I listen. Um, you guys are awesome. Really great

day today. Delia, how do we find you? I'm on social media at Delia Colone and you can follow the podcast

“at the Zes Podcast. Mike, chef, uh, Mike Colantes on Instagram, Mike Colantes.com. We'll be up in New York”

for the New York City restaurant at Street Show. And I'll be opening, so he sent New York this week.

Yeah, it's all happening. All at once. We're going to have a blast in New York. It's going to be terrific.

“Listen, gang, I have to tell you, uh, John, love you baby. We are out.”

[Music]