Undercover Warrior: Exposing Corruption

They're here to inspire and empower women in all professions. So gear down, sit back, and enjoy. Welcome! We're in a award-winning show dedicated to empowering women in every profession. They're inspiring stories and expert insights.

No topics of limits on our show. We power women on the road to success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need. I'm Shelley and Kathy's on assignment. Have you ever wondered what it's really like to work undercover

“and crack some of the biggest criminal cases or even be a bodyguard?”

Our guest today has been a real-life covert operative you don't usually hear about until the movie comes out. For 15 years Nina Hoppson served on the front lines of UK law enforcement, leading undercover operations into murder, rape, kidnapping, and financial crime cases,

totally more than $100 million.

She's the only woman with her level of field experience to rise to head of security, protecting public figures and alists celebrities. But her story goes even deeper. In 2006, Nina risked her career and safety to expose systemic corruption inside the British police force, wearing hidden cameras for nearly a year.

Her evidence became the BBC documentary "Undercover Copper," which earned a bathed nomination. She also became a UK woman of the year finalist that year and again in 2014 and 2016. Today, she continues to operate at the highest level of executive protection, and consults for HBO Max, Netflix and Discovery, on real-world security and investigative storytelling.

Beyond that, she's worked in Zimbabwe with anti-poaching units to track down rhino poachers, and is conducted missions to recover survivors of sex trafficking. From whistleblower to humanitarian, Nina is a powerful voice on courage, justice, and what it truly looks like to protect others. Nina is a true warrior and we have the honor of having her on our show.

Welcome Nina, thank you for being with us. Thank you so much, thank you for having me. Oh, this is going to be so exciting. You know, you're an amazing lady and you've accomplished so much.

Did you always envision yourself in this career?

I mean, how exciting and challenging your career is been at the same time. To be honest, no, I didn't. I actually wanted to be a vet. My love of animals obviously started at a very young age,

“but I wasn't clever enough, and so it was a kind of, what do I do now?”

And actually, while watching Cagnan Lacy on a Sunday afternoon in the UK, that was the thing that made you want to be a police officer. And much to my mum's discussed actually at the time, and then the rest is history as they say. And I am super privileged and honored to be in the position that I'm in. Oh, my goodness, yes.

So you decided because of a TV show. It's just like, this was your aha moment. How old were you and you saw that? Yeah, that was it. I was 18. I mean, I joined the police.

I was crazy. I remember going to my first domestic.

And it was a relationship that they've been together for 25 years. And the offender, the actual husband said to me, "What do you know about marriage?" And I was like, I actually don't know anything about marriage. But what I do know is that you can't hit your wife. So that's all I need to know at this point.

But I remember, and I looked back now, and I'm like, it was crazy that I did this so young. Oh, yeah. What a great answer. You may not know anything about marriage, but you know it's not appropriate to be hitting your wife. I love that. I mean, you have moxie. So would you say that that was part of it?

I'm sure you had some challenges with your training and working your way up.

“What would you say the characteristics are that you need to have to go into something like that?”

Tenacity for sure. And I think my ability to stay calm and I can assess the situation and I can read people. And I think being able to do that quickly is something that potentially saves mine or somebody else's life. And I think it's a passion to be a police officer and it's a calling for sure. We make lots of sacrifices, family, finances, you know, it's not the highest paid job in the world.

So you really need a fast track from being a police officer to what you became. Could you kind of give us maybe a summary of what you did and how the different jobs you took help you get to where you were to do the job you're doing? I mean, you really delve into this and I'm sure you had a lot of challenges along the way. Yeah, I mean, when I joined the police to be honest, which probably feels like a million miles ago, you know, I wore a dress and heels. My protection was a handbag.

And we're only talking in the 90s. So my handbag was my weapon when I first went to use, which is hilarious. But my voice, my mouth is my weapon and it has been throughout my career. So I'm, and I, to be honest, being English, female, has been beneficial in America. But it's because I can diffuse with my mouth.

I don't, my instant reaction isn't to grab a gun because I've never had one.

So I think that's one of the skill sets that I try and teach all of the guys and the say guys because the majority guys.

“But that's, that's what saves you right here.”

When you first began, you were put in some different roles than the men. As a female police officer, I was immediately put into the role of looking after sexual assault victims or children. And at the time, I didn't like children. I mean, I love my own now. But again, didn't know anything about it. It wasn't the best qualified, but my gender made me the best qualified.

And you know, sitting with a rape victim as a young woman myself was challenging. What was I supposed to do at that point? And it was that that was one of those moments where I looked into the eyes of a victim that I was sat with who was the most incredible lady. I've ever met probably other than my mom and daughter in Margaret Thatcher. But, you know, she looked at me and that made me want to be a detective because I now wanted to capture the people that were doing this.

So that kind of flipped me from wanting to be a dog handler to wanting to be a detective back to my Cagney and Lacy moment.

“And so that's what I became and I was super privileged. I had a great mentor and who believed in me and believed that my gender wasn't an issue and that my age wasn't an issue.”

And that I showed the skills to be a good detective. And that's how I kind of became the detective.

And then I moved sideways into various roles through the career and was always very fortunate to have great leadership.

And I think that's something that I now, in the role I am today, I'm also very aware of great leadership. And I'm also, I work now for a company called Torchstone Global, which is I can say the best security company in the world. And the reason I say that is because I am surrounded by, once again, great leadership. And the company I work for now, they actually care. They really care about our clients. And that's something that's gone with me from police to private sector.

“And it's something that I believe is very important, whether you're at the bottom run of a career or you're someone like me who's older and experienced having the mentors that I now have in the company is also still so important.”

And I don't think I've answered your question at all at that point. Oh, I think you gave listeners a really good idea of some of the things you encountered. But you actually went, I'm trying to think, would you say that you were at the federal level head of security? I mean, you were working with national figures in England. You started at what the local level, like local police and worked your way up to maybe what would be provincial or state police and how to how did all of that work out?

Because I kind of want to give some context because we have in the United States obviously local police state police and then of course the federal level like the FBI. Yeah, so it's really different in the UK and so we all start. I discussed this today, we started at the same level and we started in the same kind of environment and we have the same training and then we move into, you know, I was privileged to move into detective status which I went to detective school to become.

So you train at the basic academy and then you go sideways, whether that's you want to be a traffic cop, which I absolutely never ever wanted to be.

Because of my police career and my mom.

“But when I decided that I was going to expose what was happening in the police, it was because I wanted the good police to be able to be good police.”

And I wanted this tiny minority of bad police to be exposed because it was the bad police that made it really tough. And it taught me a long time to make that decision. This wasn't something that I woke up one day and when you know what, I'm going to go on to cover and expose the police. And I'm going to then go to make a show about it. It wasn't like that. It was probably a two year decision.

And as things changed within the police force and I saw things changing and over that length of time, it was then that I made the decision.

And when I made the decision, I was at the time married to a cop. And it was a case of I need to do this on my own. I don't need to bring anyone into this because if this goes wrong, it's then on me. And when I say go wrong, I mean, you know, let's, let's be realistic.

I think police organizations are powerful like any organization. And I was, well, if a 15 year service cop and I was taking on quite a big responsibility, but I needed to do that alone.

And so I did it on my own. I didn't tell anyone and it was probably the hardest on the cover job I've ever done in my life probably because I knew that the risk was going to prison. And actually, that, I did tell someone I told a lawyer. I went to see a lawyer.

“And I never forget meeting this lawyer. He was wearing his, the only lawyer I've ever met that was wearing a Manchester United football top.”

And I knew that I would get on with him instantly for that. And, and he's absolutely, you are not doing this under any circumstances. He said, I have no defense for you. So the best is five years in prison. And the worst is 25 years in prison. And there's nothing I can do to help you if that happens. And see, not do this. And I said, okay, thank you for your advice. I'm doing it. Wow. Now, that took some Kahounas. I want to get right back into this story with all the details, but we do have to go to break. So stay tuned.

Stay tuned for more of women road warriors. Come on up. Michael the tax doctor here. I have one question for you. Do you want to stop worrying about the IRS? If the answer is yes, then look no further. I've been around for years. I've helped countless people across the country.

“And my success rate speaks for itself. So now you know where to find good honest help with your tax problems. What are you waiting for?”

If you owe more than $10,000 the IRS, or have it filed in years, call me now at 888-557-4020 or go to my taxilbmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back. Industry movement trucking moves America forward is telling the story of the industry. Our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers, and more. Help us promote the best of our industry. Share your story and watch you love about trucking. Share images of a moment you're proud of. And join us on social media. Learn more at truckingmusamerica.com.

Welcome back to Women Road Warriors with the Shelley Jobson that Kathy Takaro. If you're enjoying this informative episode of Women Road Warriors, I wanted to mention Kathy and I explore all kinds of topics that will power you on the road to success. We feature a lot of expert interviews. Plus we feature celebrities and women who've been trailblazers. Please check out our podcast at womenroadwariors.com and click on our episodes page. We're also available wherever you listen to podcasts on all the major podcast channels like Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon Music, audible, you name it.

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Before the break, we introduced you to Nina Hopson. But what you need to understand is that this isn't just a story. It's a life-lived under pressure. Most of us can't even imagine. For 15 years Nina was embedded in undercover operations across the UK.

Stepping into cases involving murder, rape, kidnapping, and financial crimes totaling over $100 million. She wasn't watching from the sidelines.

She was inside these worlds, building trust with dangerous individuals while protecting her own identity in her life. It was all inspired after she watched the TV show "Cagni and Lacey" as a teenager. She even went undercover to expose bat cops. Nina, that took some tremendous courage. And from what I understand, you said you could have gone to prison if everything had gone astray. So I knew at the back of my mind that that was the reality. But I also knew at the back of my mind that I was so passionate about the cause and about the police force and about the good cops.

“That I knew I had to do it. Regardless. And that's what I did.”

You are true warrior. Oh my goodness. I mean, you took one heck of a risk. You said you were 15 years into the police force in her career.

And you were seeing systemic corruption. Well, certainly you're not going to make friends when you're trying to expose that sort of thing. And you're going to have people who are going to work against you. And I mean, the odds of you going to prison for five to 25 years, that's huge. I mean, what kind of courage that took? What kind of systemic corruption were you seeing exactly? So it was things from, I mean, when the documentary came out, I think they very much, and rightly so, focused on the way that sexual assault victims were treated with the disregard and the lack of investigation I suppose.

And then it was, you know, the taxpayer was paying and the police were sitting on nights not being out proactive but watching porn.

The police stations were still full of inappropriate pictures in police stations of women with little no clothing on. The sexism, the racism, the way that the system was being manipulated for government purposes. So it was, it was across the board. And it was, I mean, you say, you know, you're a warrior and courage. And at, at, I sometimes say, was it courage or stupidity. I'm not sure.

“But it was across the board. And I think that was what made it so interesting was the fact that it wasn't just one thing.”

It was an organization that was corrupt and so therefore it was a harder job for me because I wasn't focused on one particular division or one particular person. It was an organization that I was highlighting was corrupt. You were taking on a mountain? I, yeah, that takes some serious bravery in your husband was fully behind you. I mean, so you had, he had your back while you were going on. No, no, no, he had no idea.

All he had no idea. Oh, I went alone. I made a very conscious decision. And I was, we're no longer married, but it wasn't a result of this. And we were married for 25 years. So, and he's the father of my children. But I made a conscious decision not to tell him. Because yes, I knew he would have my back, but I also knew as a serving police officer. He had a great career. He loved. I was placing him in that impossible position.

So, I made a decision not to tell him. So, not only was I now covert in the police. I was also now having to be a covert and lie to my husband in order to protect what I was doing with the police and to try and best protect my family.

“That was tough. We didn't have a secret. We weren't that kind of relationship. And here's a cop. I'm a cop. We grown up together in the police force.”

And we married young and we were. That was our lives together. And so that was a very difficult decision. But one that I had to make very early on not to tell him I was doing this. That had to be so tough to do. And I'm sure he may have heard rumors and you just had to kind of bite your lip and not say anything, right?

Or one day I might have to face prison and every day when I left my children. I left my children. I think I cried every single drive into work because I actually didn't know whether that was the day I would walk through those doors and be arrested and not see my children again.

And to live with that pressure because my children on my absolute heartbeat and always have been and to live with that. So there was this constant juggle of

moral and emotional dilemmas going on in my brain every single day. And it would be I wanted to not do it, but every single day I continued. Oh, wow. Yeah, there are a lot of people that could not do that at all because you didn't know if you were to see your family again.

“You never knew what the outcome of each day was going to be or something would be revealed. Wow. Did you have some people who were working with you as you were doing this or is this something you did completely solo?”

So this was solo because I it's not that I didn't trust anyone in the police. It's I just had I had to do it. I didn't know what anyone else's response was going to be. So I had to go alone and I had to set my locker up every single day.

In a manner to make sure that when I got back the following day, I knew whether anyone had been through my locker because back then the logistics of it was that I was carrying a recording device in my

staff pre-fest because we didn't have bullet protests there. And I couldn't take that out of the police station because that would have drawn attention to me. So I had to leave everything in my locker, which again meant that I went home in total fear every night. So that somebody would go in that locker would pick up my my vest and feel the weight. Every two hours I had to change the battery. So I had to make an excuse to go to the bathroom. I had a reason why I was the first at work and why I was always the last to leave and why I didn't take my vest off during breaks.

“I always had to be 10 steps ahead of the question that might come from an officer to deflect from anything that I was doing.”

Wow, that's constant stress, constant, constant stress. It was 24 hours and but ultimately my my freedom depended on it. So I kind of I just lived that that life and here it was it was a very now even when I'm talking about it. I'm like, wow, that was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy and as you said earlier, you know, I didn't know what the outcome was going to be. I knew they'd be an outcome and I knew that my career was over. I was very aware that whatever the outcome my career was over. And so I didn't know whether I was going to be hated. I didn't know whether I was going to be loved. I just didn't know, but I just knew I had to do this. I had to do it.

And unfortunately for me, the outcome was, you know, I was a voice for a lot of people and there were changes made. Stay tuned for more of women road warriors coming up.

Dear Michael, the tax doctor here, I have one question for you. Do you want to stop worrying about the IRS? If the answer is yes, then look no further.

“I've been around for years. I've helped countless people across the country and my success rate speaks for itself. So now you know where to find good honest help with your tax problems. What are you waiting for?”

If you owe more than $10,000 the IRS or have it filed in years, call me now at 888-557-4020 or go to my taxilbmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back. Welcome back to Women Road Warriors with the Shelley Johnson that Kathy Tekaro. We're back with Nina Hopson. Her story takes a turn that feels more like a thriller than real life, but it's very real. In 2006 after years on the front lines Nina made a decision that would change everything. She chose to expose systemic corruption within the British police force, putting her career and her personal safety on the line.

For nearly a year she wore hidden cameras documenting what most people would never dare to confront. That work became the BBC documentary, undercover copper, earning a bathed nomination and national recognition.

You were an advocate for those who couldn't speak and you brought out the injustice, but how long did you actually do all of this?

“I was actually undercover with them for, I think it was 11 months in the end. So the first month I had to, I knew I was going back for legal reasons. I had to not carry the Lord advice.”

I don't go carry a camera straight away, go check everything out first, because I'd move back into uniform as well. So I wasn't a detective, but yeah, it was 11 months. And that's 11 months of pretending to my family and friends and 11 months to pretend into the police.

And the most important thing for me was that I was still a police officer first and foremost, so me recording anything or finding out anything.

And trust me every day I wanted to not find anything. And I was dealing with people I'd worked with for years who were doing the wrong thing. And who were friends and knew my kids and it was like, I had to have a very high moral level of, it doesn't matter who it is if something is being done incorrectly.

“That's what you're there for and again, in an extra pressure. But yeah, it was a long time.”

That'd be how so hard these are people that you knew and you knew that essentially this was not going to be a good outcome for them. I mean, you had to take a much higher, like you said, moral ground to do the right thing. We're going to be some casualties along the way, but you knew that there had to be change and that's what it had to take the 11 months had to have felt like five years to you doing all of that going solo. How did you present this? What authorities did you go to? I mean, I would imagine you were wondering if anyone would believe you too in terms of your credibility.

“Yeah, and I think that's why I went to the media because I needed a voice. I needed what I had done and witnessed to be able to be heard and no one was going to listen to me. I was just a cop.”

I went to the media and of course, they made the documentary, they notified the police force and it was very interesting because the chief of the police who is like, I think I'm not sure what I'm assuming it's the same rank here in America, but the chief was very well trained, media wise.

The very charismatic chief, and after he was told, he was basically naturally his response was, this is terrible and we will deal with all of these issues.

However, we do wish that, you know, had come to us and we would have put her under cover to do exactly the same thing, but for us, and you know, no one believed that. I absolutely didn't believe that. And we did go on a number of interviews together and he was always super nice, but one interviewer asked him, oh, so if you think all of this and you're very pleased that this is bought to your attention, are you going to give, you know, her position back. And clearly that response was, no, but back to my point of being a police officer first and foremost because that was who I was and the rest fell into the background, but while I was actually working and doing this on the cover work within, I was actually awarded police officer at the year or whatever title it was.

So that validated again to me, you know, what you actually are doing a great job as a police officer and no one could ever turn around and say, oh, you were trying to make a documentary that was never the case, this was a case of, I, I need to, you know, I didn't wake up and go, I'm going to make a documentary, I, I woke up and and said, I want to make change and I want to make a difference. And you did and you, and you did it and see one man show, one woman show. And the most people, you know, I don't think that there are a lot of men that would have that kind of courage to basically take 11 months and they know that they're risking everything and the outcomes not going to be good.

The police force was not happy with you, but you knew this needed to be done in order for the change to be made, what changes actually happened after this came out to the public.

And I remember watching the show, the documentary and just being on tender hooks of like what's the response and even my, my ex husband was like, wow, you know, this is incredible and understood exactly what I had done and why. And that response around the country, I had letters of people obviously I didn't know who were like this was amazing and because there had been a focus sadly on the way that sexual assault victims were treated by the police, there were a lot of changes with regards to that and how the processes were changed with regards to investigations at that nature and.

You know, sadly the the rape conviction rate at the time was 3% I think it's only 1% now, so I do still have a constant, you know, was it worth it, did it make any difference, but at the time the fact that procedures were changed and victims were treated better as they should have been from day one, you know.

“That even if one person was treated differently or one, a fender was arrested because of the awareness that I had bought to the police, that's a difference and and I'm happy with that.”

But I know that training changed and procedures changed and scenes are crime changed and and also I think people were, you know, the, the doing the bad things behind the scenes and watching the porn and taking pictures down and all of that changed and I mean it, it was hard for me, I'd lost my career and I remember.

Today that I got the nomination through for the, for the finalist of the woman at the year, which is a really big deal.

But it was UK, I mean it's a huge deal and I was sat and I was having a pity moment, I remember it very clearly I was emotional tears, you know, where am I going to go in my life and this golden envelope came through my letter box because we had those then.

“And it just kind of, I read it and I was like, what is this? This is crazy and no one knows who nominates you for that award, but it has to be somebody of quite substantial standing in the world or the community.”

And I still don't know to this day who that was, which is kind of annoying but also kind of cool. And it blew my mind and it was for services to my country and I'm like, I don't know anything, I've just been a cop, but I'll hold in my life, I've just been a cop. And that's the thing with cops, we think that we're just cops and suddenly I was shortlisted as the woman of the year and yeah, even now I mean all these years I'm sat with this big beam on my face because I'm like, wow and I went to this awards and it was amazing.

And the people in that room and then I can say I'm just a cop because the achievements that the people that were surrounding me had had done and made I was like, wow and I've been put into this incredible. But yeah, it's amazing, amazing. With the amount of bravery that you exhibited and the fact that you, you were, you would have been perceived as a rebel with a cause for I'm sure by your peers at the time because it was not something that would be done. But you championed, you were a champion for women, you were a champion for the people who couldn't speak for themselves, you were a champion for change and you were really exhibiting everything that what you were trained to do, you were protecting people by making these changes and you knew that the risks to yourself were great.

“Hopefully you didn't, it sounds like you didn't have a job after this all happened but yet you were being honored as you should be as a UK woman of the year, you were nominated for that.”

That's something that had devalidate. You deserve that kind of validation for what you did and you made changes for the positive which I would have imagined or still going on today.

This is good and it takes that kind of risk, that kind of tenacity, that kind of moxie to make the kind of positive changes.

Yes, so I went through a phase of basically not really knowing where I was, was going with a career and security and protection is all over my own and still is 30 years on, but that was where I ended and we actually as a family-made decision to move to Australia at that point and again was not because I was chased out of England or that's a way that a story.

And actually moved to Australia and I set up a security company and was quite happy at home working from the garage.

You know, this was my security little business and fortunately for me, I received a phone call, so I had worked very heavily in child protection while I was in the police for many years. And it became very, you know, that became my passion as well, protecting, again protecting children.

And one day in Australia it was midnight and I received a phone call from a gentleman who I can never met and he said, "Hey, I have an issue and it's child protection related."

“And I hear you are the person to call for anything to do with that and I was like, am I?”

Anyway, very long story short, this gentleman was Australia's wealthiest gentleman, a billionaire and I helped him solve an issue with regards to a family friend of his. And the next thing I was then working for him and I was protecting his family and then his business and my little garage business was no longer just me and a garage. And I was suddenly protecting a billionaire and his family and his mining assets and we had a journey at the two of us and I worked on the cover for him on various things.

I worked telling his teenage daughter that they would know they were not taking the alcoholic drink at one of the parents' parties, you know, it went from one to the other. And yeah, then again the rest is history. That's quite, I would say, a juxtaposition from what you have been doing, I mean, you've been all over and it makes it for a very interesting career and being able to work with some high-power people.

“Were you intimidated at all? I would imagine that you had to prove yourself, women in security do they have a different challenge than men?”

Oh, absolutely, they do. I mean, and I'm the first to say that, but I'm also the first to say, you know, I'm good at my job because I'm good at my job, not because I'm female or not because I'm male.

And, you know, we, the dynamic in security is different and sometimes, as a female, I can't do the job and I have to not have an ego and I have to say, hey, I'm not the right person for this, you are. And it works back both ways, you know, we have a stand in joke, you know, how are we protecting Taylor Swift when she's going in the bathroom? Because, you know, as the big guy outside, you can't go in the bathroom with them, and I don't protect Taylor Swift by the way, but if anyone's listening, I love to.

Yeah, so there's a time in a place for everything for the big, the small, and I talk about the Hollywood guys, you know, and the optics for the celebrity, but then the optics for a CEO are very different. So, I'm, I'm very much about somebody being good because they're good, as opposed to gender, however, it's, you do have to work hard. And that's, again, back to the company that I work for, you look at who we are on paper and no government would be able to afford the skill set.

“You know, from ex-secret service to ex FBI hostage negotiators, it's crazy, but we are good at what we do because, we understand the business and the clients, and we can leave our ego's outside the door.”

And, but do I have to fight with the fact I'm female? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Industry movement trucking moves America forward is telling the story of the industry.

“Our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers, and more.”

Help us promote the best of our industry. Share your story and what you love about trucking. Share images of a moment you're proud of, and join us on social media. Learn more at truckingmusamerica.com. Welcome back to Women Road Warriors with the Shelley Johnson at Cathy Tecaro.

What's so powerful about Nina Hobson's journey is how it has evolved. She's single handedly exposed systemic corruption in the British police force,

putting her career and her personal safety on the line. Her work and investigation led to the BBC documentary "Undercover Copper" and National Recognition. Her bravery changed how sexual assault victims were handled by the police, as well as other systemic corruption. Victims were treated better. After reaching the highest levels in undercover operations and becoming the only woman with her level of field experience, to rise to head of security protecting public figures and alice celebrities, she didn't stop there.

Today, she's advising major platforms like HBO Max, Netflix and Discovery, bringing authenticity to investigative storytelling. But she's also on the ground doing real-world work. From tracking rhino poachers in Zimbabwe to helping recover survivors of sex trafficking, Nina has taken everything she's learned. And turned it into purpose-driven action. She's an amazing lady. Nina, you've had it go through a lot of training to do what you do. Pretty rigorous, I imagine. What kind of training does this take? It sounds like you have a combination of all kinds of things.

“And if you're security, you also have to maybe even have background in psychology, you have to be able to analyze, you have to be able to scope out risks.”

What is that process? I mean, there are so many things that go into this that I don't think a lot of people think about. And I think that's going back to, you know, how the police has made me who I am today. You know, I was super privileged to have the career that I had and be exposed to the things I was exposed to.

And obviously, it's never nice ever to be exposed to anything to do with crime and children and murder and rape and kidnapping.

But those skills that I have learned along the way and now what makes me where I am in my profession. And I think when I just gave the call, she of the people I work with, you know, they are all because they've been through their processes. And the things that were taught along the way, sometimes we're not sat down and taught. Sometimes it's an exposure, sometimes it's a character. And my, my thing is, I can't teach character. I can teach you how to do something training wise and I can teach you, you know, how to be better at getting through a door and and John, I can teach you how to be a firearms expert and Chris can teach you how to do an advance.

We can teach things like that, but we can't teach character and it's such an important aspect of our job. And so the training I think has been lifelong and it still is, you know, as I say, I look at the people I'm working with who look at me and we're on the same level, but I'm just like, and so privileged to still be able to learn and still be able to learn off these amazing people that I'm now surrounded with.

“Well, I imagine you have to think on your feet. It's, it's not a static situation.”

You're always assessing security, risk, all of that when you're working with your clients, you have to anticipate and today's got to be so challenging.

Because you never know what the heck is going to be going on and all of the work that you're doing has been just amazing, especially even an advocate for the prevention of sex trafficking.

I mean, that is a terrible problem across the world. So not only are you working for your clients and in terms of security and doing all of that sort of thing, you're still an advocate. You're trying to make change. What exactly are you doing in terms of like the prevention of sex trafficking? And how bad is it? Because I know that we've talked about this on our show. It's a terrible travesty and a scourge on society.

And Shelley, you know, I think there's a whole show right there on that topic. And again, it's, it's across the world.

And, you know, social media and Instagram has also changed the world of sex trafficking.

“But it's something that I was involved with as a charity and all of us that work in that area.”

It's because we are passionate about the cause and passionate about making the difference. And, you know, the one thing that we lack, we have the skill set.

But we do lack funding, but it's interesting because when you talk to people who are everybody is horrified by the word sex trafficking, as they should be.

But it's kind of, it's, I've spoken to people who have the funding to provide, but they want to be part of the action. And it's not fun under any circumstances. It's not cool. It's dangerous. It's scary. It's very real. And the people that make a lot of money out of sex trafficking children don't mess around, because they know one is to cut down their money tree. So a fight becomes a fight and I've been, once again, I use the word privilege because it's privilege in order to go and physically remove children from the hands of these evil deprived horrendous.

I'm not going to even use the word human beings. But, you know, some of the things I've seen, and you know, I've had a situation where I've had to leave, well, the team has had to leave a child because our lives were so in danger.

“And that's the hardest thing ever, you know, to know that, but you've got to make that decision, who are we going to say about this point?”

And it's a very difficult decision, working in that area made me probably realize that I was human, because I remember I came home one night, and I came home to an empty house. I'd been gone for, I think, three days working on an operation, and it was four in the morning, and I came home and I was just like, I have no one here right now, and all I need is somebody to give me a hug. I don't need to tell them what I've seen. I just felt like I needed some human reassurance that the world wasn't all bad. And that was a like changing moment for me, but yeah, it's a privilege, but it's a necessity, and it's real, and it's horrendous.

And the people I work with are amazing. When we rescue a child, and we say, well done for all, probably 10 seconds, because we know there's another one.

And there's, because it's something we do, and we do it as a passion, it's not our everyday jobs, it's not the thing that's going to pay our mortgage. And so you also have a fine ending to it, you know, I can only work these two weeks, or I can only work, and that's also super hard, because you know that those two weeks are every week and every day and every hour. And the police again, there resources, it's a caught and tied, and so yeah, it's, it's a privilege, but it's, it's a very, very sad fact of life that we even have to talk about it, and even more, actually do it.

That it exists at all, absolutely, the people that do this sort of thing, their barbarians, and it's got to be so hard. I mean, you, you see this sort of thing, it's a moral dilemma. And like you said, you have to make some tough choices too, but the fact that you're advocating and you're making change, it takes a village to make those changes, and of course, create the awareness, so that there is maybe more money allocated to stop this kind of trafficking. Because there's so much money involved in it, it's really hard to tear down, because money means power, and you've got that that you're fighting.

Nina, you do so many different things, and you've been such a tremendous champion and an advocate to make the positive changes that are needed as one person.

“I'm really impressed with that. How do people reach out to you? You're currently doing private security, do people just reach out to you to your company or how do they do that?”

Yeah, I mean, obviously, we as nature of what we do, we were not like social media, etc. But yeah, I mean, now it would be a case of reaching out to torch stone global, and it's me, Nina, and an amazing company, and we appreciate anybody reaching out to us in any way.

But, you know, I want to use every single experience I've had in my life, the good, the bad, the ugly, to continue to empower people and power women, and to raise awareness to the issues that we should not be having to deal with. And however I can do that, and thank you again for having me on the show, because that means a lot, however I can do it, anyone can ask and suggest, please do, because I never want to stop, and I now want other people to be able to use my experiences to move forward with their own.

“While I would imagine your knowledge could really make some serious changes if people are trying to do some of the things that you did many years ago, making changes in the police force, any of these things.”

We need people like you to make the positive changes. People talk about it all the time, but they don't necessarily do something, and a lot of times they don't know who to contact. So you'd be a good person to ask, how do I make changes? I saw this, what do you think Nina, is this something I should be concerned about, and if working we make some changes. This is going on in our backyard, because that's how the changes are done.

And you're a good resource for people wanting to make that change. Yeah, and I will help anyone wherever I can, and Lady said to me yesterday, and I kind of might start this as a campaign.

What would Nina do? And she actually sent me a post it note and said she was having a moment and what would Nina do? And that really resonated with me, because hopefully I'll be able to help people moving forward with whatever changes. Whatever they are, if you're passionate about something, do it. Even if you can't make a change, try, please, because you never know. For me, one person making a difference, rescuing one child, seeing a rapist go to court for one person, because I had raised an issue about how evidence was collected.

That's making a change. Yes, it is. And if everybody does it, the change is huge. It does. It takes a village, and it takes one person at a time to do it.

“If we all advocate for that, it makes all the difference in the world. Nina, I love what you're doing. Is there a particular website people could reach out?”

No, I'm well, touched on global. We have a website. Obviously work with corporate security, but we look after everybody and it's the most amazing company of people as you would see.

But anything through their AVG management actually is my daughter, so she will always pass anything to her mom. I drive her crazy. I think at this point, because she was like, okay, I'll get, I'll pass it to you. But yeah, I'm available if people want to reach me, they certainly will be able to, or via you, obviously. So yeah.

This has been wonderful talking to you, Nina. You're a real inspiration, and you've made a lot of change. You really have made such impact on so many people.

“You know, I hope so. I really, really hope so. I'm passionate about everything that I believe is is right, and I'm not always right, obviously, but just as is my is my thing, and it was instilled from a very young age by my mom, who sadly I lost.”

And yeah, I just used the word earlier, and I kind of feel like I'm a warrior of justice. And I actually just a side note that no one knows. I actually have warrior in Morse code tattooed on my arm. So how cool. So yeah, that's who I feel I am, and that's who I'm going to continue to be. But it's appropriate here on the show, women road warriors. I don't know what Morse code warrior looks like, but the method's pretty new. Thank you, Nina. This has been terrific. My pleasure. We hope you've enjoyed this latest episode, and if you want to hear more episodes of women road warriors, or learn more about our show, be sure to check out

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