"Music of My Mind" – Stevie Wonder

For the first time in his life, he's free.

No more producers telling him what to play, no more Motown for him. Two weeks later, he shows up on an ounce to the studio in New York, knocks on the door and asks to meet a thousand pound synthesizer named Tonto. He proceeds to play everything himself, drums, kidneys, bass, harmonica vocals, all Stevie.

The back of this album literally reads, this album is virtually the work of one man. This is music of my mind and Stevie Wonder is finally free to fly. I'm Adam Ennis and I'm Peter Martin and you're listening to the Youll here at podcast. Music. Explore!

Explore! Brought to you by Opus Studio.com for all your jazz less than me. It's Peter Workfloor in like crazy. Oh my goodness. We're going to explore the hell out of this record.

Steel. Steel? Yes. Stevie Wonder's 1972 music of my mind, it feels like and I know it's not. I know at this point he made 14 albums before this one.

But it feels new. It feels like the start. It feels like an emerging artist somehow, even though Stevie had already been making music for a decade. Right.

But I mean, it kind of is. It's like, it's a segue. I think it's a pivot point. This is the launch pad. I want to nominate that we call it the quiet launch pad of his classic period and we'll debate

what is inclusive. So all the way up through. Well, let's not even think about that. Let's not go against each other yet.

“I mean, what we do definitely agree on, I think most people do is that this was the”

beginning of a classic period. How far that goes is an interesting question. But I say quiet launch pad because this was like, I mean, the record doesn't start that quiet. You can hear that.

It starts now. So good. And quality wise.

And like this was kind of a revolutionary record from a technological standpoint for

a sonic standpoint. For sure. For sure. From people's expectations of Stevie Wonder and those 14 previous albums. But this was not.

There was no big hits on this. No Grammys. Yeah, you know, which basically, this was the only record over 20 years stretch from before this all the way up to, I think, like in square circles or something. And into the 80s that he didn't have Grammys and/or hit singles from every record

except this one. I mean, it's almost like this was the, a pair of teeth. This was this was like, the Amos boosh. The Amos boosh. This was like, everybody was like, wait, what is going on with music on this album?

Like, what is happening here? It felt, it had to have felt. I wasn't alive. I'm going to have felt so fresh and so new. I'm an artist that you kind of already have known.

It must have taken people back. But you're right. It is kind of weird that there were no huge hits from this. Yeah. I mean, great songs just know enormous hits for whatever reason.

Right. And yeah, crazy that there were no Grammys for this. He started winning Grammys in the very next album, talking book. And then, you know, one, like, three album of the year Grammys in the snow row. Yeah.

Incredible. Yeah.

“The next three, I think, all one Grammys.”

I mean, and talking book actually came out 72 as well. Yeah. It wasn't like same year. I have hits that year. It's not like he went into the, on this run of albums that he's, that he's about to

make and just like, was like, here's this album and here's this album and here's this album. A lot of people might know it. Not know that, you know, these tracks were done over, you know, the albums were done with different tracks over different periods of time.

Right. Right. All these sessions to bunch of songs. Right. So, right.

Exactly. So, let's get into that. So, we're talking about May. I'm going to take you back to a little time that you might not remember due to not being bored yet.

But I was there. I was but a infant. Yeah. Number 17 too. Not a lot.

But I'm going to take you back even more, 1971. Right. So, Steve, we want to turn 21. His Motown contract expires on his birthday, that was part of the deal. They Motown throws a big party for him, Barry Gordon, Gordon the whole thing.

I'm sure there was that the hope and expectation, although probably pretty dim, that Steve was going to resign immediately with Motown and they're going to keep on making hits and everyone's going to be making money and everything. That's not what happened. And the day after the party, Steve's attorney served very go to Motown with a notice that

says, he's out of contract, this is over, we're doing our own thing, you know. And what will become one of the Savius business decision in the history of the recording industry and what would become a template for many other huge superstar contracts up to this day. Taylor Swift and everything.

We talked about this. We talked about the songs in the key of life up. So, we talked about the charts and on the songs in the key of life. But a lot of people don't give Steve a credit for, I mean, he's obviously a musical genius from a very young age, but don't forget, he started in the music business

at a very young age and he is incredibly savvy at the business part of this.

“And this deal, I think, is really a testament to that.”

He bet on himself and he ultimately won.

Yeah.

I mean, he was like, you know, it was a 2% royalty rate.

“He had made a bunch of money as a, as, you know, before he was 18 and then even through”

when he was 21 with his contract, but it was on a really low royalty rate, which is pretty typical at that time, but he was able to get a deal all the way up to 14% which I don't think had been done. And he was also able to retroactively get back half of his publishing that they had been holding back on him for that time up to them because he'd been writing all this

incredible. I mean, he deserves all of it more. Yeah. Yeah. But what happened was just a couple of months before this record came out that was called

Zero Time by this thousand pound synthesizer and a couple of gentlemen Malcolm Cecil and Robert Margaleff, who had the band Tonto as well and the expanding headband. I think it was the name of the band. Yeah. And they made this record Zero Time and it was not like a huge hit or something, but

Stevie Wonder heard it. And I just want to play them kind of talking about this as opposed to me fumbling my way through the history because there's some great interviews that are out there from the principles, there's going to be three individuals that are kind of had their hands, obviously Stevie Wonder had his hands all over the record, but there's two other folks as well.

The first album is actually the first alternative album and I guess was 1971.

Yeah. 1971 Tonto's expanding headband Zero Time and it was put out by herbie man who had a label called embryo which was distributed by Atlantic back then. And that was how Stevie Wonder came to find this was through that album. You wrote up a media-sand one day with the album on the wine and friend of ours on the

other album. I like what Ronnie Buingka said. Yeah. We did lead the studio for five years after that. Amazing.

That's so great. By the way, a lot of buzzwords from the late sixties early seventies in their herbie man. Herbie man. Yes, shout out.

embryo records. Come on now. That was like his vanity label on there. Yeah. It's great stuff.

Yeah. So this record, Stevie, I mean, he had just heard it. We could have been before March because it came out in March of '71, but I just want to give you a little bit of the sample. You ready to have your your head expanded.

Hit me with an incredible expanding head band.

Did you put some in the coffee here? Yes. Excellent. [MUSIC PLAYING] That's dope actually.

That's really good. [MUSIC PLAYING] This is some of the more accessible part of the record I was able to find to just let you know. But I mean, it's, I mean, they're electronic artists that we're trying to do that

today, I know, I know. And I mean, we think about, I mean, yeah, of course, this sounds dated in a way. I mean, it's sort of places at a time, maybe like a documentary is going on about some plants that were transported from one continent to another into a laboratory with a fancy accent or something.

“But I mean, I think what you can hear because just a couple months later, this is happening.”

Literally, like, in May, when he goes in the studio for Memorial Day weekend, holding their record, this is zero time, tonsile record, saying, "Are you the guys who made this? I want to get access to that machine. I'm Stevie Wonder. I have some ideas about what I can record.

He's only like 10 days out of his contract. And they, like they said, they go into the studio then for five years and make some of the greatest recorded music of all time. Man, I love that you just framed that tonsile like that. Can you play that out again one more time?

Yeah, the whole thing. As we venture deeper into the Amazon, the feminist can't come. Does this sound like that? I would be telling you, like, the music to some a grainy documentary. Right, right?

What about, yeah, might have led to Stevie's secret life of plants a few years later. Oh, yeah. But I think Stevie, okay, so there's a technology of this. So it's like, what is tonsile? There was synthesizers before this, right?

But tonsile was a very special thing because it was, you'll see some graphics of this. They might scare you, make you think you're in Star Wars or one of those other shows from that from that time, Battle Star Galactic. I mean, I assume if it was a synthesizer, it looked a lot like what we have on the table here, which is, you know, two octaves and a ways about six pounds, maybe a ton.

Costs for 300 bucks. It was a ton, my friends. It was priceless, literally. It's an amusem in Canada. I really want to go.

Can we take a field trip? Let's go. Let's go. A tonto trip. Yeah.

But yeah, so anyway, so there's Cecil and Margillof, these two guys were instrumental to everything

that happened on this record because basically, when Stevie shows up, they did have a mutual

friend. This guy, Ronnie Blanc, I love that name. Isn't that somebody who's going to drop you off of Blanc? Yeah. Yeah.

So he was playing bass. I guess with Stevie, they had some gigs on Long Islander or something. And somehow, Stevie's talking to him or whatever he finds out, he's like, oh, I know those guys. Steve's like, can you please take me to them?

And it was over the Memorial Day weekend.

“And one of them, I can't remember, I think it was, I think Malcolm Cecil lived in the building”

or something. He was like, getting out the shower and he looks out and Stevie's wearing a, he describes it as a green, pistachio suit. Amazing. Holding the album.

Amazing. And like, they could have been like, no, come back or close.

creating. They cut like 17 songs that first weekend. Oh, my God. That span, not only on music of my mind, but all the way to fulfilling this first finale.

Well, it's a little bit unclear what to break down. But there's definitely stuff that they used throughout the classic period of those things. Can we just shout out, bassist Ronnie Blancov? They introduced Stevie to these guys, like, right, who doesn't play on it.

Maybe the most important musician of the early 70s, you know, without even playing a note

on these albums. Incredible. Yeah, it says bassist Ronnie Blancov showed up with Stevie dressed in a pistachio green suit. I was having a check.

I was like, was it pistachio? Well, he got dressed, ran downstairs and invited them in to see the machine. They recorded 17 songs that weekend. So unbelievable. So, you've got the technology in terms of they had this multi-timberals synthesizer.

Just to show people, like, show them, like, monophonic synthesizer, which was the only thing available. Well, yeah. It means you're not playing chords, right, play one note at a time, right? Like play a play a C triad and you can't do it, can't do it.

Yeah.

“So, Tonto was pretty much, I think there were some other things, but it was the only thing”

that people could actually work. But again, work. I assume the Tonto, like, this Yamaha refaced has a switch where you can go from this to this. Oh, my god, they're mine, but yeah, except they included a whole room.

By switch, it meant someone had to, there was, like, a telephone operator. And I assume it took four double A batteries, like, it did not, you know. It took a whole village of power. So, super exciting. So I want to play just one more thing of sort of how they're talking, then we're going

to get into the music. The important part. But I do think, please, I think this framing of, like, the technology. So Stevie's got sounds in his mind, but now he's got new sounds also. He's already written hits. He's a great pianist, harmonica, you can play drums.

One of the greatest singers you ever lived. Right, right. In fact, just that very year in 1971, his last record, which had a huge hit on it, as

“I mean, it was, uh, previous one, you might remember this from 1971.”

Oh, yeah, it's a great song. Yeah. Very Motown, very Motown, I mean, Q8, quite a few. Qc. Oh, man, I'm tired of myself being good.

So this was just a year before, same year, same year, same year. This is the last record on his junior contract. Yeah, and so, you know, obviously, you already had the voice, you already had the music you had all this. But he was hearing some other stuff.

And the Motown system at that time didn't really allow for that. They were like, no, we know what works. We're about making hits. It's called hits fill my friends. This isn't called artistryville, although it was very artistic as well.

Absolutely. And I think what you saw here, then Stevie went out of limb, he financed all this himself. He was out of contract. He, you know, found these guys. They got into the studio, and, you know, were able to make four of the most in four to

six, depending on how you count it, four of the most incredible records of all time within

just a couple of years. We talked about this on the Marvin Gaye, what's going on episode that we did. But it's like, Barry Gordy and the Motown hit machine, right? This like, this camp, basically, or this, this university, to make these superstars, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Michael Jackson, the Supreme.

You know, inevitably, they get so good at what they're doing, that they want to break out of the mold that the machine has put them in, and all of them end up making this incredible art later in their lives after Motown.

“But I do credit, you have to credit Motown for, like, basically, like, uping the quality”

level of already great artists and putting them all together too, so they were interacting with each other and, you know, talking about this stuff and learning from each other and working on music together, and it's really unbelievable when you think about, like, around the same time as what's going on and then what Michael does later in the decade, it's pretty.

And what, and what Diana Ross does later in the decade, pretty amazing. Yeah. It's incredible. So, one more clip of Motown's sauce, we'll talking about, kind of, what was in the air. At that time.

Stevie was a keyboard player, and his principle, need from us, was to provide him with the sounds and the technical expertise to enable him to get what he had in his head.

That's why we called the first album Music Up My Mind, because it was music that was

in his head. He'd been carrying it around for several years, because he didn't own sound publishing. He was very smart for somebody so young, and he realized that he, there was a lot of money in publishing, and he decided that when he came to us that he had not written anything substantial for Motown in perhaps five years, and he had all these songs in his head.

And he was just bursting to get them out. Yeah.

and Margola, because they recognized as soon as he came in.

I mean, of course, they know that Stevie Wonder, like, he's a star already, but they don't really, I mean, he's a little Stevie Wonder, I mean, I don't know how in tune and how much they're keeping up. It's how to make hits, right? But I don't think anybody could have predicted, like, the prodigious talent and, like, just

outpouring their hearts.

“So they kind of trusted that, of course, they, I think he sat down what he did.”

He immediately sat down, and they're like, showing them the keyboard, the not only tonsill, but other different things they have in the studio, and they're kind of like, oh my god, we, whatever our other plans are in life, like, let's change them. This is the mission. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And there was, like, no contracts. There was no, like, they said at one point, like, six months into it, Stevie would just sort of, like, give them money to kind of keep the studio going, they ended up moving it down to electric lady land, later in the year, all the keyboards and every single thing could be in a more comfortable environment, but, like, the three of them were on a mission.

And like, they would come in and, and, and record, Stevie likes to work at night, famously still does. He's like, he come in in the evening, and they work for 12 hours overnight when the sun came up, they'd be done, but then they'd come back. Like, that's, they just all got it, you know, so it's like, one of those times, no social

media to get in the way, maybe we could say, like, no distractions or whatever, and it was an incredible thing. Well, it's interesting to hear what he just said about how Stevie was saving these songs, like, the music in his mind, because it does, you know, I, I mentioned in the beginning

how it's like, how this feels like a first album almost.

Yeah. And it kind of is in that regard if he's saving all this music, because, you know, there is this thing of, like, an artist's first album is really, really great, because they've been working on it. Their whole lives.

Yeah. You know what I mean?

“And then the second album is, is much, did more difficult because they got everything”

out in the first album. It just turns out Stevie had about 15 albums worth of material in there, exact from the time he was the kid. It's incredible. And when we talk about music of my mind, talking book, intervisions and fulfilling this

first finale to the classic four way way way way way. Those are all, like, there's overlap from 72, 73, no, 71, 72, 73, and even in the 74, probably among all those albums. There's a little bit of debate, even among the people that, there's a little bit of conflicting information.

So you're not putting, you're not putting songs of the kill. You're not putting secret life of plants in the class of period. No. How do they deal with that? No.

No. They're great records. But not even songs in the key of life. No, no, no, because they're not classic. I mean, songs in the key of life may be the culmination of the classic, I could say that.

But that was recorded in a very different way entirely in LA, although a lot of this stuff was, that's another story. They moved everything across country too. But different production crew, a little bit of overlap, different process, you know, Stevie's mature, much more people involved in the record.

And this record is darn near one man banned. All four of those records, actually. But this is the one that has the least, you know, it has Buzz, Fight, Fightin, on guitar, on, no. Yeah.

I know here what you're saying about. And that one are barren souls. Otherwise, I hear what you're saying is that it's just a key of life as a bigger record. I know. It's the same process.

“But I think there's a flag on the play there.”

Okay. Yeah, there you go. Traveling. Yeah. Wait.

Marksport. Yes. So, so, okay, let's talk about this. So when we talk about one man banned, I think a lot of people miss that because they think, oh, yeah, Stevie wanted he sings and sometimes I see him at the piano and, you know,

he can play the harmonica really well. No, he played everything on this record. So he played drums. He played bass. He sang.

He played harmonica. He played bass on the keyboards. He played the tonto. He did all these different things.

And that in itself is amazing.

But you can be like, I know people that are talented, they can do that. But it's the putting it together to make it feel like a band, to make it feel like an exciting experience. At a time when the technology did not involve like pasting things in and being able to have automation and all these different things.

Like you had to have literally the music in your mind and then be able to be like, okay, what am I going to do first here? Yeah. You know, sometimes it was drums. Sometimes it was keyboard.

So, I love what he does first here on the album too. Yeah, I'm thinking we could jump in that and then we can kind of break it down and see the different parts. Let's do it. Of course it starts with love having you around.

So good. What a start. What is great start? Have we listened to what great album? They didn't start great.

No. No. No. No. No.

We're the song. No. No. No. No.

That's great. Yeah. And every day I want to get on my camel and ride. That's all these albums here. And this harmonic thing.

It's very bluesy. But you immediately go somewhere weird to the deep line. Yeah, going up on my front right here. So this is kind of telling you, this is not going to be your average gospely bluesy.

Talk back. And run my day.

Oh, move up to another minor third.

Back down.

“And then he pulls it all back together right here.”

Very gospel harmonic track. And you know what? Sound so good. Let's repeat that part. Sing and cut down.

Haven't you arrived. It's like a part on the old friend. 'Cause you have stuck with me. They're thick and thin. It's really right.

They're thick and thin. They are won't smile. And you're lovely, brown eyes. Say, sorry to write with Eric. Every day I'm gonna get my share.

'Cause I know you're gonna take me there. This drumming is so interesting. It's so unique. It's so funky. It's so...

Like the pocket is so him. It's so singular. Yeah. To be able to play that hard in the pocket without like precision tempo.

It's not supposed to be on the grid. It's so pocket. We talked about this when we listen to Intervision. Yeah.

It's almost preferable to some of the really amazing studio cats.

You listen to it on like songs. What they brought in, hurt you on a bunch of these tracks. Which is great. We're not hurting parties. I can't do it.

I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't.

I can't. Hey. Come on. Come on. Come on.

Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on.

Come on. Come on.

“So there's already a lot of technology on here, right?”

So much. Yeah. But a lot of humanity. That's the thing. We talked about this on Intervision as well.

He's able to use this technology. Which can seem like when we even listen to the Tonto album. Yeah. Futuristic. It doesn't feel that way.

If it's earthy and raw and real. Right. So good. So okay. I wanted just to jump back and just to sort of just to show people how this worked

with the talk box and his vocals, the background vocals. And then the rhythm section and how he kind of brought all this to life. So this is from the top just. Can I do this? Just the vocals.

Is that something that might interest you? And background. So by background you might think, oh, yeah, he's got those three ladies that I saw them with on tour. No.

This is all Steve. There's a little bit of career right. I think on some things. But not this. And so again, music of my mind.

“He's got to have all this in his imagination and then put it in one thing at a time.”

Kind of imagining what the end result is going to be. Please. That's the beginning. Mama, mama, mama, baby. Baby, baby, baby, baby.

That's the talk box. Oh, that's the big one. What? Yeah, you can feel the groove. Yeah, that's much more.

Even without. And every day I want to get on my camera, man. But you take the drums away. Every day I want to shake your head. This is getting proud back.

It's got maybe your baby vibes. Yeah, yeah. And it's right. Yeah. But it's precise.

♪ And I'm always living in my days through ♪

♪ Nothing to do, I'm just sitting around grouping ♪ ♪ And I say, come along ♪ ♪ Have it you ride ♪ ♪ I'm making space in my face ♪ ♪ Amazing, you're a door door door door door ♪

♪ I say, come along ♪ ♪ Have it you ride ♪ - Wow, all that great stuff has happened and you've got, here's the river section. Base, and he's playing baseball keys.

Roads, maybe a little warly, I can't, yeah. - There's really a wrong one, sure. Base is so sick right here. - And like the base, damn, the bases. - This is a mug base?

- Yeah, or art base, maybe? I think it's mug, oops, a little bit. That here's the drums. (upbeat music) - Ah, it's just so much, so much kick drum happening.

It's crazy, that's great. - And you got the, the heavy pan from the point of view of the drummer, woo, that base, damn, his base drum is killing, and then you got the keys. (upbeat music)

- We don't have great separation on that for some reason. (upbeat music) But yeah, just to hear the whole real sick.

(upbeat music) Fill. (upbeat music) Oh, that's a wall, man. (upbeat music)

“And then, you should talk about the drums,”

so let's reach them up to that a little bit. - Yeah, by the way, I love the way that, I think that's a club in that there, but it's got, but it's very muffled, like it's, it's on a pickup, 'cause the new to this club in that's have different pickups,

like a guitar that you can still hear. - Yeah, yeah. - And so it's on a very dark version of that pickup. It sounds so cool. - Yeah, it's awesome.

- We're gonna get some great clap at the beginning of the second half, too. So we're gonna jump up our bare and the great, our bare, wonderful jazz trombonist, and otherwise. - Yeah, he crushes this.

- Yeah. (upbeat music) - Got the little chromatic board. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

- Then we come back and win the day and night. - He's got these, he's cool harmonic areas and he's been going back and pulling through. (upbeat music)

“- And part of his voice is a magic for so good.”

(upbeat music) ♪ It's having you around ♪ ♪ It's gonna get you ♪ - And every time it's different. ♪ It's gonna get you around ♪

- Someone's crazy and he's so nice. - Anyway, I like this. I like this album. - I get it. (laughs)

- It's very good, man. What a great track, too. Great song. I mean, it's got everything, right? It's got like, come on out of the gate.

- Come on out of the gate. - It's also like, it because he's so young,

'cause he's 21, and that still has this incredible

youthful energy. We talked about this in off the wall, but it feels like a young person that wants to prove himself that has something to say that's trying to change the world with this music

and it's so inspiring. - It's totally. - As an old folkie, it really makes you want to get up and do something. - Yeah, I mean, this output was just crazy.

And then the thing about it is, too, and I might have some a little bit of narrative on this, too, but the idea, we think of these albums so well crafted in terms of the sequencing of 'em, the combination of songs, the messaging of 'em,

how they're laid out even from side to side be. And they are. There was a lot of craftsmanship that went the mix of them, the transitions, but these were not, they didn't work on one album

and then finish it. Like, we've talked about the Steely Dan, the Asia, Goucho tapestry, which was done relatively quickly, but it's like, this is an output where you're thinking about the album,

you're starting it, you might move some things around, we're not gonna use this, and then it's done. It's, this didn't have a starting at ending point. This was just like three or four years of recording, apparently recording over 300 songs.

And then when it would come time, Robert Bergeliff, and Mark Obsessel would go to Stephen like, hey, multi-ounce McCallant, they really want to record, and he's, they're like, okay, let's talk about it, we'll try this, and they would just go into a lot of archive.

Actually, can we hear them talk about this? - Yeah, if I can find the right thing, yeah, here. - Well, the thing that's interesting is

that we never really kept track of the hours

of how long this song took, because we never really sort of worked with the concept with Steve anyway, of ever making, of now we're gonna do music of my mind. This is an album, we have to do 12 songs and so forth, and then we would concentrate on doing 12 songs.

We would work for an archive for a library. We were constantly in the studio. Some of the songs we did in the first year ended up on talking poker, ended up on fulfilling this. - Amazing, it was really generating material

for a library, it's the way it worked, because of the archive of songs. - That's a nice archive. That's a great archive, you know, I mean, it really hits me as you described this setup

that they had with the Tonto system, and also these two men who were like, really helping to facilitate Steve's vision on this, but like, it just goes to show, and this is just, this is a little bit of my own thing here,

but how important a process, your spaces, your set-up is, like, you put, I mean, nobody could have just walked in there and made this kind of music just because the setup is great, but when you have a genius like Stevie Wonder and you give him the space where he can just seamlessly,

frictionlessly, there's no friction, right? There's a drum set over here, there's a synthesizer over here, there's a clapping at there and a roads there

and a whirly there and the vocal mic is always set up

“and apparently that's what we set up like.”

He just go and explore the space of the studio, and he does, and he creates like these four amazing albums.

without that friction in the studio. - No, you're absolutely right, the logistics of it are part of the artistic process and they start it out at media, sound studios, up time, that's where Stevie showed up in the pistachio suit,

but you've seen pistachio suit as well.

“- I don't know, it's a really important factor.”

- I do like seven different interviews. - I like that it says the scene, I do, yeah. But part of the reason they move famously down to electric lady studios, about the course, Jimmy, Henry's studio, Voodoo Beak,

I'm a bunch of great things, was about this very concept you're talking about frictionless. They didn't use that word, but check this out. - He could find this way around there and when Jimmy passed, they would do the old,

and it was like with Malcolm and Stevie, it was like putting our shoe in a ready-made shoe. We were able to get in there and to really get to work. It was beautiful environment to work. We started fourth, 30 in the afternoon

and finished at seven in the morning when the sun was coming. - Amazing. - Night after night, holidays, birthdays, rains, sleet, summer storms, you name it.

We were there, it never was, we called it Stevie time.

It was never a, and we didn't have to leave and leave because a crazy Daisy toilet papers can be making a commercial during the day and I had to break down the drums. And we think it could stay.

- Yeah, so that was the thing.

“That the other studio, they were still doing commercial work,”

but they were very intentional about having the drums, having the roads, having the vocals, a kind of microphone that Stevie could feel and if he bumped into it, it wouldn't say, everything was frictionless so that he could create it

at any time. So that he didn't have to have a helper, obviously being sight impaired, he could move around the studio without anybody helping it. So there was nothing getting in the way of him creating.

And when they moved to LA to the studio out there, it was the same thing, they actually built out a whole room and started renting it by the year, 'cause they were like, we just have to, he's got to be able to record it any time.

And this is one of the first gift, the quiet launch pad that would come for over the next couple years.

- Man, well, and it's amazing that that love having around

that first track wasn't released as a single and wasn't a hit because it's catchy as hell, I know. - The next track, though, was released as the first single on it and this, man, this might be my favorite song the, it's debatable, but this, this is the song,

honestly, of all of Stevie Wonder. So like, I got this on, someone, someone don't tell Stevie, but my first listen to this one was when I was 16, he's getting quiet and somebody listened to him. A friend of mine made a tape, like, you know,

a Mac cell, yeah, recordable tape. So I didn't know, was it a special friend that gave you a mixed tape, my friend? - It was a mixed tape, not that special. But, so I just knew it from this tape

and I didn't know what this song was, but this was a song, and also I was like, I knew Stevie Wonder from like, I just called to say, I love you at this point, but I was like, you know, young and dumb and didn't know anything.

- Yeah. - And when I heard Superwoman, track two, and the other song that it's part of Superwoman, I was like, you get two for the price of one on this one. - Where were you and I needed you?

Which I, I legit thought were just two separate songs because I was listening to one of the tape that they're having labels or anything. I was like, oh, we're in somewhere, this is music that I didn't know existed.

Like, just whole genre of music opened up to me and it's from this next track. - Yeah. - Here we go, Superwoman. (gentle piano music)

♪ Never used to be a Superwoman ♪

♪ Catch this amazing piece ♪ ♪ But is that really in her head ♪ ♪ So relaxed ♪ ♪ But I guess we'll live each day ♪ ♪ The longer put she ♪

- How do you fit together that weird, send the intro and work so well? - And the interlude that happens between, dude, that's the next one. - Next one.

- To my place. ♪ In a mind ♪ ♪ And all the things she wants to be ♪ ♪ She needs to leave behind ♪ - 'Cause this is almost like a U.R. my sunshine kind of track.

This part of it, you know, small. His drum here, again, it's very unique. - Yeah. ♪ Wasted you ♪ - Very loose.

- Of course, something to be interested in. - We're gonna get into it. Follow me to the nerd book, my friend. (gentle piano music) - Oh, I love that road.

- Man, the details. ♪ And I think I can face ♪ - Oh, and the way he all fair, we will. The alter's at each time.

“♪ And I think I can cope with everything ♪”

- And if you know this record, you're already looking forward to the next time how he's gonna change it. - Oh, the next verse. ♪ Oh, one, one, one, and try to bust the bull around ♪

♪ But does he really think she'll get by with a dream ♪ - This might be my favorite moment. The second verse, though. ♪ One, one, one, two, three, two ♪ - All the BV, oh, there's slowly later.

♪ I just had to say goodbye ♪ - The variation from the first verse of it, you know? ♪ 'Cause I can't spend no more ♪

♪ But, but ♪

♪ But, I believe I know you ♪

♪ But, but, but, but ♪ - Where's the new man, too? - Best background book. - Best background book. - Best background book.

- We're gonna go back and just hear it. First one, that's some of the most copy, type of background vocals, right? - Yeah. - Yeah, see, he's copying it right now, 'cause he's like,

♪ But, but ♪ ♪ But, I believe I know you ♪ ♪ But, but, but ♪ - A lot of counter points, so good. ♪ To very well ♪

“♪ And I think I can do with everything ♪”

♪ Going, coming up all the time ♪ ♪ Oh, we will ♪ ♪ Repeat ♪ ♪ I don't know you do ♪ ♪ We will love you ♪

♪ Wish you all me ♪ ♪ Like I know you ♪ ♪ We will ♪ ♪ But, but I think I can do ♪

♪ We'll never think all and do ♪

♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ ♪ Amazing ♪ ♪ We will ♪ ♪ And I think I can do ♪ ♪ We will love you ♪

♪ Wish you all me ♪ ♪ To very well ♪ ♪ And I wish I could make ♪ - So this is all of me. ♪ I believe I know you ♪

- This first song, yeah, key of e, both major and mine. ♪ And I will ♪ - Then we're gonna transition, yeah. - To the key of F sharp. So we're gonna go pop the whole start.

And the way he does it is just, and I think... - Oh, it's about to start. ♪ Everything gone through ♪

“- This was the end of the signal on the radio, by the way.”

- That was it. - Of course. - It's a real shame, yeah, 'cause what happens next is... - I don't know. - This is one of the greatest transitions ever.

(upbeat music) It's back to the weird, new synth sounds with beautiful. The drums, cymbals. Now we're in F sharp major. (upbeat music)

- Now we're in F major. The chorus cycles perfectly in time. All the roots. All the loop-based call. This is the greatest.

♪ When the summer came ♪ ♪ You were not around ♪ ♪ Space ♪ ♪ Now the summer's gone ♪ ♪ And love cannot defound ♪

♪ Where were you when I needed you ♪ ♪ Last winter ♪ - Maybe his greatest melody, bad. Maybe his greatest melody. I'll react to me all the time, I'll react to me all the time.

♪ When the summer came ♪

“- I mean, you and I, but this is up there.”

Yeah, this is up there. ♪ When the summer's leaving me and I ♪ - What's the last song on fulfilling this? That's great. - Great track.

♪ I needed you ♪ - Prevent this song. ♪ Right now ♪ - Ooh, gone buzz. ♪ I love you ♪

- It like how he gets here without a big awkward. I have no idea. ♪ But you say now ♪ - All these sense here, it's so thick. It was so open.

- And now he got to sew with her. ♪ We'll replay ♪ - The mix. ♪ Love it's good, good, good. ♪ ♪ We'll share it with you ♪

♪ When the winter came ♪ - You're back, you're smaller. ♪ We're around ♪ ♪ Through the bitter winds ♪ ♪ Love could not be found ♪

♪ Where were you when I needed you ♪ ♪ That's winter ♪ - Oh. ♪ My love ♪ ♪ Ooh ♪

♪ Whoo ♪ - Man, both the guests. Great girls. - The guests are auditive, too. - And a buzz.

♪ I love you ♪ ♪ Each man needs me ♪ - Look at the same name, chromatic. ♪ I love you ♪ - To bridge, come on.

♪ I love you ♪ ♪ But you say now ♪ ♪ You have changed ♪ ♪ I love you ♪

- Okay, Motel would have never allowed it to,

like, shove these two songs together. - Well, when you talked about this on the Talking Book album and the Innovations album, but the chorus of "Since That You're Here In There" - It's not like, it's not like a polyphonic pad.

That's a bunch of mono-since that he's playing like individual voice out of his style. ♪ Oh, little ♪ ♪ That girl let me down ♪ ♪ Where were you when I needed you ♪

♪ That one, too ♪ - Oh, my his delirits. ♪ That like his delirits ♪ ♪ That like, I love you ♪ ♪ Well, when you were I needed you ♪

- Right now. - Right now, right now, right now, right now. - Does that move? - No, Motel is stuck in there. ♪ That like, I love you ♪

♪ That little girl ♪ ♪ That you will be with me ♪ - Hey, you, man. I can't tell you like the energy of a band that this is giving. I can't almost comprehend. I can understand how a band,

playing with each other with that energy. I could not imagine putting this in one instrument at a time by yourself. It's just, it's like my voice. Not that you, somebody couldn't play that, but that you could give it this feel.

You know, this organic, communal feel. Vision, visions. - We're done. - We're done. - Man, the vocal performance, too.

We don't talk about enough. - I know. We can talk about it.

“Like, that could be the only thing we're talking about.”

- I know. - Like, that kind of is when you talk about the one-man band, like we forget.

His vocals are just revolutionary.

They're so influential. - Playful. And they're so, like, he's just improvising these melodies, seemingly improvising these melodies, these backgrounds, all these things, too.

Like, he's got a bunch of create endings on this album. Like, he, well, time would have been to stop right there. - I mean, they wouldn't have been to stop five minutes ago. - That's true. - Nah, it's a masterpiece.

The whole thing is a masterpiece. - And on LP, this transition's right in, which is, you know. - All right, so great. Can we talk about the mix on this? - Absolutely.

- I know, 'cause this sometimes people start to be like, the mix, what is that? It's just, like, how the record sounds, right? So you have these incredible elements, but what's very unique about this record,

and really during this time, there was not automated mixing, at least it was not readily available, meaning, like, you know, when you see the typical studio look with, you know, the mini channels and all the faders, like the classic look where it's, like,

the producers sitting there and the artist, and you're like, should we push this up? Should we do that? That's about the levels of the different mics and the inputs and all that kind of thing.

But that had to, used to be in the old days,

“and I remember this in, like, late '80s, early '90s,”

some, like, you couldn't automate that in any way. So you'd have to listen back to what had been recorded once all the different tracks are on there, and then adjust if you wanted a little bit more cumbers at this time, or the drums, for just, yeah, for one section,

or you wanted to mute out some of the background vocals. And so, especially for this kind of recording, whether it's not recorded live altogether, because Stevie's playing every instrument,

so he's going track, you know, he'll do the drums first,

maybe, then he'll add the bass, then he adds vocals, then he adds, whatever the order is, it's like one at a time, and then he's got all this, and then it has to be sort of mixed together. So, they did a really interesting thing.

The three of them, Robert Margilliff, Malcolm Cecil, and Stevie Wonder together mixed this record, and they're talking about it. When they came to mixing the records, Steve, myself, and Malcolm would all be at the console together.

And we'd all have faders and moves and stuff to do, we called it Armstrong Automation, and pretty much the records were mixed that way. Yeah, so they're all, as they're listening to it, we're rehearsing probably, and then they also would say,

sometimes they get a mix that's so good, so then they printed, they bounce it down to whatever to track, and then they'd come back to the next day, or the next night, Stevie time, and they listen to it, they're like, "Oh, that's crap, let's do it again."

So, that'd be remixing it. But it's such a big part of the process of how the record sounds to the end user, to the listener, right, of how you're going to, and there's so many just cool, innovative things that they did on this record, so a lot of technology in there.

Peter, I just want to just acknowledge something about that. We're all right, being the refaces, not working now, and we don't know why. And I had so much cool, just no listener. I was going to lace him, harmonic knowledge on you.

Guys, if you weren't planning on being drug into the nerd nugget, you just lucked out, you know. Hey, Peter, and Adam here, just wanted to jump in real quick and say,

"Well, first of all, I'm having a good time."

Dude, I love Stevie Wonder so much. This might be our best episode. It's a good one. And it reminded me of how much great Stevie Wonder material we have over an open studio jazz.

I mean, if you're a harmony nerd, a piano nerd, a jazz nerd, a steve nerd, a steve nerd, or you're aspiring, or you're Stevie Wonder curious in terms of the keyboard or guitar, whatever, please come over and check out our stuff.

Yeah, even though the little keyboard that we had here died, I actually have two lessons on my harmony games, of course, Peter, just on this album, music of my mind. I have one on all of the model interchange on the album,

and I have a full lesson on the last track evil, how Stevie Wonder brilliantly modulates around that song. They're great lessons. I've also got a whole course called The Harmony of Stevie Wonder. Very good.

Why do deep dives on exactly how to play,

“how to decipher that beautiful harmony of Stevie Wonder?”

Start your 14-day free trial at openstudiojazz.com/y-h-i. Go to OpenStudiojazz.com/y-h-i

Back to the show.

This is gonna make you feel better.

We're gonna go on. This does make me feel better. Thank you. Is that a great roadside? Although they say you're not my friend,

“you've been here through thick and thin,”

and for them to grow. Oh, hell yeah. I wanna do a stalker. I'm not pretty here. I'm here to save.

What are you gonna say?

I love you more each day.

Would you play that chord for me, please? I just wanna tell the world. But you are the sunshine. Yeah, that's great. We're gonna go keep going through this.

I wanna listen to...

“This is something I kind of missed until I came back”

and started listening this again. This kind of has some ASMR kind of vibes to it. The way that it's mixed. Check it out at the beginning. They left all the breathing in, right?

But not only left it in, like, you can really hear it in the mix. A lot of times, you know, if a singer's about to sing something, they're doing that. And whether or not you leave it or not. Now a lot of that stuff is taken out,

which is kind of unnatural. No, I'm gonna say, I really prefer when we take out all the humanity and quantitize every drum hit. Oh, I do. Yeah, that's the best.

And how we unplug the Yamaha V-face as well. But this is the thing. So yeah, they don't do that on this record at all. When we isolate the vocals, you can hear that. Actually, why don't we just go into the isolated ones,

and we'll be able to tell. But they really leaned into it on this. Like, in terms of, like, amplifying that in the mix. And you can hear some of the breathing, and then the little bit of background sounds he's doing,

or actually kind of percussive and part of the flow and the feel of this, especially at the beginning. So this is Fender Rhodes with the course. You hear that? You hear that big breath up?

Yeah. It's a time. So I'm just like background for you things. I mean, it's a song about the little things. I love every little thing about you, you know?

intimate. I love you. That cool. Come on. Yeah. My bass is man. That's the mix. That's

all together, right? Get this beautiful. I always really bring it up. That holds on scale so yeah. This

chorus too. And the background. The chorus is unbelievable. All the back of it. I love this. I love this. I love this. I love it. I love it. I really love it there. I'll transition. I'll transition. I'll come before it's a transition. 'Cause my love. Man, the bass on this. There's only one that I played so far. It's gone that I played so far. I love you. I just want to say, love you more each day.

Great. So again said, it's if you want to change it a lot, if you said it. Tell them well, that I love you so. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah.

“Well, I'm sending it to the edge. Oh, my life is just like early breath for it. You say, love. It's been the world's but on me. It's such a progression. It's too. So open now, right?”

, let's nerd out. Let's background.

Adam. I think I'm going to throw the gauntlet down now. I wasn't even planning on really doing this.

This is a great transition on this too. Amazing. We used to sit here and listen to the whole album from

“again. Yeah, that's what we should be doing. So it's going to be a four hour show. But this is the thing. Superwoman.”

Basically, the last three songs we just heard. Superwoman, where were you when I needed you? And I love every little thing about you. These three songs. I think I don't know why I'm thinking about comparing these two. You are the sunshine of my life. But because that came out six months later on talking book and was a massive hit, top 10 hit, maybe maybe number one, even. I think these are stronger songs. I shouldn't say stronger. I think I prefer these three over that. And that's not slander. Your other sunshine is a beautiful song. Everybody loves it. You're definitely

allowed your preferences. I'm just a little bit surprised. At least one of these wasn't a hit as well.

They're all amazing. Honestly, they're all amazing. I think just for one was only one of those releases.

I love you are the sunshine so much. I know it's not as, it's a little different than these, but man, it's not that, I mean, I wouldn't you kind of categorize them. For sure. Yeah, for sure. I mean, they're kind of small. They're greatly well crafted songs, but they start small with like tone trance. Like we talked about with, yeah, exactly. And we talked about with, sunshine is like the way he's playing roads and even like drums, especially at the beginning.

It's kind of like a hotel lounge, like a really good rhythm section with this, you know,

like you go into a hotel and then you're like, oh my god, this is incredible singer. And then you start

a hotel lounge and you hang it out. Hi, this is, this is the among. We're talking about the among. No, but you know, I'm saying like great musicians can be anywhere, but they're playing, he's playing every instrument, at least at the beginning of all these, very simply, right? Very small, right? I mean, there's the synthesizers and stuff on some of them that are expanding things out, but at its core it's just like great musicians playing together. But that's the weird part about it.

It's one person playing. You know what's awesome about this discussion, though, Peter is like, because we were talking about how they've made these tracks, you know, for these first four albums, you know, all in the same, it was just like a library of tracks. It's like, it's kind of one

“big album, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, it's just like, you will, because you could hear that's what”

we call it, the classic period. Not including you're the songs that you have like, but you are the sunshine could easily be on the cell. Yeah, it can easily fit into this. Actually, it's not kind of vibe. It's like, it's not a ballad, but it's not, it's kind of a medium temple, you know, okay. Now we're going to move on track number four. It's a little girl. Yeah, so end of side A and this, well, I'm going to let you speak on a first, but just isn't mine. Great start.

Hey, that's the best part of this track. Oh, harmonic, awesome. All of a sudden, all of a sudden. That's kind of like his vocals. We don't, we take it from granted. We take it from granted. Yeah, who else is? Oh, my God. Maybe the greatest that ever shoots the old man's in the streets. I mean, who else? Maybe the, you love his driving degree. Great. Great. Sweet little boy. It's played. It's so good on this.

I bet his rose play is harmonica. Like this could be a novelty song if it was, if it weren't for all that.

“It's incredible. Oh, there you go. I remember when I first heard this, I was like, is this a”

conscious move with a little bit of a man. I love when back of the throat, speedy, so it's up. See. He's got a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit. And the character has like, droop, a droop kind of a clumpy face. Right, yeah. No, this is solely theatrical. It's like the highest and novelty song you're ever going to hear. But then it's just, you know, you'll be 90% of the population singing the song would be Schluck.

Man, that's the homo, if you got it, that's the homo. All right, is this the only piano on the album? Like, is this a little bit, well, it's not out of place,

it's the slow character part. Yeah, and even that, almost got like, it's almost going into, like, rack a bit, rack a billy a little bit. I mean, it's cool because it shows his range and stuff.

It just, for me, this has always been the slightest bit of like a, whoa, the only place on this album.

I don't know, I feel like man, I hear it's kind of country like you, I could see this on the smoking the bandits soundtrack, you know what I mean? But then when he was doing that, remember when he did the, the Ray Charles tribute stuff when he was younger, yeah, this is kind of coming out of that too. And it's all great. It's all great. End of sight, Dave. Do we need to get some batteries, drink some water, anything? Can we charge a head? Can we turn this record over?

Because we're about to hit another high point right here. Alright, PewDiePie, he says. Clevver nets. If you like your honours with an H at the beginning. I'll start now with the two vocals. If I should ever bring, I think he's going to track with no track. He's got that effect on his voice. He's used on other songs in this run. Oh, it's like a phaser or something. It's not a phaser. It could be chorus.

Right, might be verse. Like phased verb or something. Yeah, something. Four to one. Sam Charlie, you know what that is? His vocal body. This is the most beat, the beatles. It's her once that you hear.

“Which TV was totally tuned into the, to the beatles. That's how he's talking about that.”

That would have been awesome collaboration. Yeah. If like the beatles would have hung around for just a couple more years. I know. And then, I mean, there was so influence on Steve on everybody.

Steve always had his ears to the top. But there's, there's, there's some similar sensibilities,

especially arranging wise and orchestration wise. And actually it's interesting because this happens in the song, first track on site B and sweet logo last on A shows the biggest range for Stevie. I also love this is not like solar beat motiles. No, this is like a folk ballad on it. Yeah. Like, but I love the folk balance he does, where he's playing Clavinet. Yeah, as the guitar is exactly. Essentially, the band is like the acoustic drums too. Because it does, that, go and go. The band, the gay, gay, the gay. The band, the band. And then he's got the

syncopations on the inner lines.

“Beatles are like, even like a Led Zeppelin going to California kind of thing. You know what I mean?”

Yeah. That's interesting. But Stevie can take influences and like, yeah. So actually other, like, no problem. Like, no shame in his game for doing that and personalizing it in a great way. What a move. What a move. Yeah. This is just like expert craftsmanship songwriting, you know. Yeah. And it goes off for two and a half more minutes. It reminds me of like the, that behind the scenes

and we are the world where he's like showing Bob Dylan had a sing like Bob Dylan. It's like he can, like, I'm going to do a folk song. But it's going to be like the best folk song. Like, both acoustic guitar folks song and they were like, Stevie, you don't have a acoustic guitar here. It's like, yeah, but I'll use my own. I'll use my own or Clavinet. We're going to make it work. I mean, it's unbelievable. Yeah. And it's, and it kind of is, it's almost disguised in a way, especially because like,

for me, I listened to this album. This was not like a rate. I mean, this was, I heard this obviously way after it. Well, not way after it came out when I got, whenever I got this Stevie. But even like early '80s, there was a big, like Stevie was really hitting big and he had like music aquarium and like the best of albums and stuff. So a lot of these records kind of came back or we're

always there. But the idea is like, this, he has a way of cloaking a folk song or like a rock or

rock ability or or country or or whatever in his sound in a way that is not like everybody's just like, man, he was, he was making the best soul and arm. Like this is not an R&B record. I don't think this is an R&B. I don't think it's a soul record. I mean, that's or blues. That's a Stevie wonder. It's a Stevie one and I know that's like cliche to be like, only, but those elements are there.

“Bro, you know how I feel about it. There's, there's a, every artist is its own genre, right?”

And then, but I mean, but this, no, well, that's great. Okay, why do I keep hitting that? That's, especially these great artists. Like, this is a soul R&B. This is a motel record. And like Stevie sort of transcends them in a way. But like what he's doing from this on is like,

So it's like, it's, it's a, it's a very, it's a genius mix that he does. Like he, he takes an

“influence without giving a shit. He's just like hell, yeah. If I like it, I'm bringing it.”

Hey, Peter, I got the last question. Yeah. Did you know that we do float performances of a track from one of these albums on every episode? Man, at the end of the, can we do it at the end of today? Yeah, let's do superwoman. Not only, if you come up with a cool arrangement. I'm going to try my best. Okay. But did you all also know that, it's not just at the end of the episodes, but we actually have our own YouTube channel just for the tracks. Many of them are from

songs from you'll hear it episodes. It's open studio music, just YouTube, open studio music.

And you'll see, you know, all of these incredible tracks that our team has put together here.

They're we've played on, yeah, Caleb and Bob have played on over the years from songs from off

“the wall, from thriller, yeah, from songs in the key of life, from Asia. Yeah, I don't know. I'm”

hitting my, Charlie Park with strength. We just did just friends who check out open studio music on YouTube. There you go. Or Spotify, wherever you get your music. Okay. So we move on. One of my favorites. Oh, I mean, they're all my favorite in their own way. It's like nine, nine children. Like I had nine children. And they're, I mean, they're Stevie's kids. But it's like, I, I don't want to get too deep in this life. Charlie, but this is this one's one of my favorite.

Girl blue. Amazing. Yeah. Another great answer.

Big show of the girls on the rise of our, the girl you said. And the sun comes out. Quick course. I love it. The what is going on with the drums. I don't like the way they're scanned on this. And then like three or four different percussion parts. All right. Today.

“And this is the most unique effect on his vocal. I think on this whole record. It's almost like the”

you and I verb on it. It's like, it's your atmospheric. It is. It's like he's painting this. Man. So this whole album. Straight, straight, straight. I was going to say something. I'm going to wait. First chorus, first chorus, quick chorus. Our mother-in-law. I don't know how we're going to do apex moment. This is like a mountain range.

This is the big song. This is kind of an epic song. We got it. We're not. It's all amazing. But this is like

I think the drums being so busy. So it's with the epic this, you know. Let's cut that little. All these little harmonic things he's using. Yeah, the church. Yeah. Yeah. Steve, he's ability. So the greatest part about this song is the mix of minor and major. Yeah. These descending minor chords. B flat minor, A flat minor, G flat minor, and then this like F7, this dominant.

But then the lift up goes to B flat major. Right. That's the two chord. Yeah. And the B flat major over D, and the four chord E flat. Just for our harmony new nerds out there. It's so sophisticated. This whole album is actually a master class in what's called modal interchange. Yeah. Steve is literally mixing on a lot of these songs. Superwoman, this song, evil. There's these like mix of major and minor and all these chord

progressions. That is a hallmark of his. Yeah. That is something that he is a master of. Something that other artists, you know. Yeah. Other artists, like everybody from, you know, Marvin Gaye to Michael Jackson to radio head to a bunch of artists. Hallenoids use modal interchange.

thing is nothing wrong with three chords and truth. But it is like a very high level

device that Steve uses. Yeah. You have musically. It feels almost cheap to talk about it because of how deep this album is just emotionally, the song. But that's the mechanism with which he hits the depth of emotion. I mean, if that is that mastery of these harmonic tools. Absolutely. You know, it's like how mathematicians talk about mathematics is this beautiful art that is, like to them they see beauty. Like if you're a harmony nerd and you're into the math of harmony,

yeah. This is like some high level shit. It is just unbelievable to geek out on all this stuff. It's a great way you're putting it. I mean, it's like there's nothing wrong with a simple, bottle of French wine that's like, you know, nothing complex or whatever everyday wine.

No. But there's also something nice with this complex Bordeaux that's got all these layers.

“So if you're willing to like, that's what this is from a harmonics. And you don't have to”

know the names of the chords, but you can know major and minor. You start to hear like, how are those? Because if you, I mean, and even rhythmically with all this percussion and stuff, it's like, this is, this is definitely that don't try this at home. It's so dense. There's so much shit going on here. You better be Stevie Wonder and have that kind of vision and you better have these two guys plug in everything in and then mixing it like a real commitment because like,

this is a, this takes a lot to get this out. This is not just, oh, Stevie Wonder is a genius. He's in there doing this. This is a lot. They're working all night. They're working 12 hours. The thing with the harmonic stuff to work five years with the music theory stuff as we as we break it down, you know, who knows how much Stevie's thinking about all of this stuff like theoretically, probably none at all, because he's, you know, just comes to the door a while pouring out of him, right? But just like the

synthesizer stuff, how it doesn't seem, you know, antiseptic or, or like, to spacey or it's like fake or robotic, he makes those synth sound organic and earthy and like a human voice, same with the harmonic stuff. It doesn't seem, so snooty or it doesn't seem out of reach, like the way that he does it, it could get very, very fussy. Yes, you see it on paper, you're like, "Oh, wow." Yeah. It is not fussy. No. It feels so natural. It's so good. And that's actually

is harder to do. For sure. To make the complex seem easy. It's beautiful. He's so good. I would say, I do start to understand now why this, like, why this is a launch. Like, this is almost like a buffer record. Like, it was going to take the world, not that they had to catch up. The world had to

“catch up. But if you think about it, it was only a few months. Because that's how you look. Come,”

so I mean, like, this, but don't you think talking book starting with you are the sunshine? That helps. Because he's like, "Come on, everybody." It is. We're going to, we're going to get there. Yeah, maybe that's part of the thing, as they're picking from the catalog. But I mean, I think, to, after you've heard 14 hit, you know, records of Stevie Wonder, the Motown side of what, like, this is, I mean, for us to look back and be like, "Yes, this is the beginning of the period in the

harmony. This is great because of this. It makes sense." But in real time, and look, this was a, this is a beloved record. And this is not like, people didn't get it. But to take a little bit of time for people like, "Oh, that's where you're going." I mean, anything great. You can't like, anything change up your thing and expect everyone be like, "Yeah, the masses." Yeah, that's right. Anything great and new is going to be a little jarring at first. Yeah, for sure.

“Did it take long? But now, I mean, we, like you said, like, like, 2020 is the hindsight.”

Hindsight is 2020 because we've, we've grown up with this. But the way you mentioned, Hallenotes, just a little fun fact. You know what, what they call them in Germany? Hallenotes. Do you actually know that the name of the band is not Hallenotes, that it's just Darrell Hallen,

John Oates. Right. Always. I mean, not in that. No. Okay. Okay. Seems so long. Seems so long.

By the way, there is no bad track on this album. This is just like nine bangers. Yeah. I mean, he has so much of the crazy, sad stuff at the beginning of tracks. He likes to set the mood. Yeah. Yeah. That's scared. That's another thing. And a classy hotel like the like the park hide. It's okay. Oh, the long. To suffer. Nothing. It's nothing. For me, the phone. No. He loves the two core. Doesn't he? He does love the two core.

Two buyer, major. It makes the question. I love harmonic perspective. I don't use two core. It's nearly enough. Two is a good. Damn. He loves a two five one. A back door, two five one. Are we really like messing this up? I'm messing this up. I'm messing this up. Back door. But this is, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is, this is like the jazz lounge he gets.

and so. And it's so like loose in it, you know, really appropriate way. Like, it's not a battle, but it's like the way that the musicians would be reading some of the first time where they're like, yeah, I got it. Okay, leave some space. That's a way. Okay, we're making this a jazz fan that should be a jazz fan. Come on. Isn't that good? Yeah. So good.

“Yeah. Seems so long. But that's the jazziest thing. I think for sure. You know, great song.”

Great song. What are we doing now? Oh, he looks he sees. I'm going for it. Okay, go for it. Because I can't wait for keep on running and evil. I mean, it ends. I mean, this is such a wrong. Again, a lot of crazy synths up at the beginning of the track. And then we just go to church. Yeah. Yep. This is like the back and forth, right? But it's between a synthesizer and a decadent, you know. Clevver, they're vision to have to get those sound. Do you hear that? Do you hear that? Do you hear the pan of it?

It's electronic, but it's not automated. It's like human and the machine, all the humanizing the machine.

All these time, do I have some amazing heads on this? Yeah. Oh, so soft. Oh, yeah.

Oh, this feels like maybe one of the heads in the head for a while. Yeah, like you know, this feels like I could have gone on a boat town. I mean, he played that a little sloppy on piano because he wanted to for the vibe. You know, you could tell.

“Oh, this can be so funky without guitar. It's again, is that Clevver net?”

Yeah, don't clap in there, Clevver net. It's just piano, Clevver net. It's making me feel like I'm playing enough Clevver net. I'm messing up. Okay, we got to do something here. I got it because now I'm thinking,

there's no, I don't think there's roads on that is there. Which is amazing piano and Clevver net, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I want to see if we can hear just the piano on here. Yeah, and then the clap, you know, it's the bass. Oh, buddha. Clab on the dominant seventh, panning to all sides. But that's the whole vibe even without the drums that you're coming up. Yeah, yeah. Whoo, it's really the piano that even those subwoofers in the overall mix, that's what's holding it down. It is holding it down.

“Clab on that, that's what's given that funk, right?”

You like that? I don't like it. I mean, I wish, man. 'cause it's got this sub, and you like that piano, man.

That was it. Amazing track. Amazing track.

Fun stuff. Thank you, Stevie. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. I love the piano sound on that. It's cool too that there's just two tracks where he's using piano. He uses it kind of an unexpected ways. I was like, well, this, you would think like for that kind of vibe. It's almost, dare I say pre-disco. Am I going on a limb on that? I was thinking about this, it feels a little, it does feel a little bit like more mid-70s and it does 72, but if you're looking around the corner

for the groove, or it's having piano based instead of like, and no guitar, but it's still so fun. I mean, can you imagine being a musician around this time and hearing this album being like,

I want to listen to the whole thing. This, and we can get it, actually, let's get into desert

“on the tracks. We get in the category. So, if you're new to the show, we know we have a lot of new”

people here in the show, but just we've had a couple of, we're on a run Peter, what a honor run. I don't know if you knew that. Is this our classic period? This might be a doll. It's all out of some. It's all down here from here, my friend. No, but if you're new to the show and where you been, and you like it, why not share it with a friend? Like right now, think of someone in your life who you think would get something out of this episode and send them a note. Send them a text.

Peter's actually going to do it. Peter, if your friends and family aren't listening to the show,

“actually, that's true. All of my friends and family. They don't want to hear me talking to you.”

Oh, I don't want to hear you. I listen to the show. No, but share it with your friends. We really appreciate you listening, and yeah, we're really excited about this season. So, okay. I want to listen to this to this whole track because you were going to tell them about the category for a week. For people that are new, we do at the end of the show. We do eight categories, and this is kind of a fun thing. They really matter,

though. They really, really matter. And so our first category is desert island tracks, meaning

if you were stranded on a desert island, and you can only pick one track from this album, what would you pick? I would pick this last song, evil. Okay. So, you want me to give minor, which we'll listen to. Let's listen to the evil, and then you can give yourself a big C chord. Why not? Yeah. Move on the bass, of course. I get starting with those atmosphere since. Yep. How many tracks do you need? Yeah. This is such a grab. He loves to end his albums

with these epic pedals, too. Have you noticed that? Right. There's just like this one low-base note that drones. Think about how many albums from this period have a similar vibe. Like Leap with some weight. Please don't go, that's first one. That's first one. That's first one. That's my favorite. This is so hip here. Secondary dominant to the six chorus. The secondary dominant to the four. Now the groove starts. We're not just on the fourth

“or theater. We're not holding his key. Maybe he's got you. Yeah, so much space out his range, not out there.”

It's good again. Secondary dominant to the six. Look at these amazing music on the

Why is he so cute? He's so cute. Oh, he's raw, raw, and so many holes. He's cute. Sweet love.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. And our guest. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. That's a better. That's a great call.

It's a great call. Isn't that amazing?

I was just like, I mean, could you, but I'm the same.

I'm with that every day, every day, I would be up to that. I go to bed to that every day. Oh, my God, every day would be so epic. Oh, my God.

“Like in between, like how are you going to fill your time?”

You're just looking forward to hearing that again. It's so deep, and it's the shortest track on the album. I don't know. It's like three minutes or something. Three and a half minutes.

Yeah. No, not to, again, I feel like it does like it's almost vulgar to talk about the music theory behind this or the little nuts and bolts things happening. But again, if you're a math nerd about music, it's so sophisticated what's going on here. Like he leads.

So it starts off and see, can you see? Yeah. And he leads you down and secondary down to the A minor. The secondary down to the forecourt F major. Right.

So when you're at that forecourt, it feels like, you know, you could go back up to the GFC. Yeah. That's a five, and then maybe you go F sharp to finish. Yeah.

You see, over G, lesser hands, right? Yeah. But as soon as we're on that forecourt, now we're starting the sequence all over again. That's a gun. And he does it two more times.

So he does the same thing. And that's like, it's a perfect forethought pizza. It's not like a lift of a half step or a lift of a half step. It's a giant leap up, right? So he takes this hugely leap up and then he does it again to be flat.

And then he does it again. Right. on this crazy, big court at the end, it's like, you know, Johnny Cash's version of Walk the Line where he modulates so that he can keep it lower until eventually he's like, you know, "Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

know. This is like the opposite of that. Steve keeps like modulating to lift us up, but he's like going so far in these modulations, it's insane. And it's also really unexpected because he's modulating using this chord that is, it feels like it's in the key that you started in. And before you even, I mean, it's like three chords later, you're like, wait, are we, we're somewhere new, right? Because it's somewhat really, it's far away

physically like the key, but it's related enough that it's hard to pull off. It's hard to pull off. Because it's like, wait, we're there and I think it's like he uses the melody the time and then his range, like he starts down in that low tenor. And the whole range

man just keeps getting bigger and basically he had a plan for the whole obviously. No,

lesser hands, it could be kind of clunky, but in Steve's masterful hands, it's like, you don't hear people sing in this song. So, I mean, it's, it'll be tough. What's your desert on the track? Oh, oh, oh, yeah, we had to go buddy. Let me up with that. What's your little track? I mean, I got love having you around. I love the way this record starts. This is a great. Oh, you start your day like that. It's a great start. So, we got to be getting

the last. And you know, Steve famously has great starting and then his record is just like a song. And everything in between. But I mean, he knows about balance and architecture of albums and so, I mean, that's, that's a great thing. What you got to do your apex moment. And just to let folks know, this is like a top moment. I mean, in a record like

“this is silly. That's what I'm saying. This is so I mean, it's like it's got to be the”

last chord of that. That's, that's kind of the genius of this album. It's all pointing toward a, the last chord of evil. Yeah, which is this huge apex. It's the biggest moment on the album. Oh, is that yours? That is mine. Okay. Well, that makes sense. We just heard that. So, I've got apex moment. I love going for these slightly longer ones. The transition between superwoman and where were you when I needed you, which is weird and wonderful.

And just one of the most. I'm going to jump up to it. And I think I can do it. It's very abrupt. It's soothing at the same time. And it's got, it's really good. And it's like clunky and human and bringing it in. I mean, there's some music and stuff here. He leans a lot on, on the G-sharp minor sound. Yeah, which is the, it's a chord that's in both keys. Yeah. All right. It's an E major. It's an F-sharp major. Yeah. I love the way he just

slides into this. You don't, like you said, you don't even know you're there. Now, and then all of a sudden, when the melody comes in your life, holy shit. It's just like, like

you're walking around a corner and then you're seeing a new part of the land you never

see. And you're like, there's a value below and you're like, let's do it. Amazing. Amazing. And then in my opinion, this is where you and I need you, melody, the whole thing, including the bridge. It might be my favorites to keep you going to melody. Better than you are, I like. I agree. That's where you are. Oh, it's great. It's so well written and so, so beautiful. Yeah. Bispo playlist. So if you were to put this album in a playlist on, you

“know, Apple Music or Spotify with a bunch of other albums, what would you call that playlist?”

The actual classic run. Oh, so you would fill it with the four albums from the classic run. Yeah. And call it the actual classic run. And you leave out songs in the key of life, and how to then July and music, very much of great records. Yeah, because they're not part of the classic run. We can't be friends anymore. I, what would you call it? Virtual synth. Spiritual synth. Yeah. That you chat GPT. Oh, come on.

Quibble bits. If there's anything you could, I mean, I kind of mentioned it before. It's

find myself jumping past that sometimes. Yeah. But hearing it again, like sitting through the whole thing, it's like, there's so much cool stuff in there. It's, it's a very,

“like, there's nothing, sonically. And that's what I was trying to find. I'm like, there's”

something going to be messed up in the mix or something weird. It's really cool. Man,

yeah, even the stuff that I was always like, it's weird. It's like, oh, my God, that's

the perfect place. That's something weird in the mix. His vocals, his flawless, harmonic playing, the drumming. I mean, I can't, I mean, some people would be a quibble like, oh, he played that Phil sloppy. I'm like, he played perfect from what that was. Yeah, I don't, I don't really have any. Stevie's perfect. What's your quibble bit? Well, when I tried to fill out the quibble with category, I just wrote without even thinking about it. How

do you? The quibble bit's category, even assuming there was a scoffee to quibble. No, but there could, I mean, yeah, I don't have, I actually can't think of anything that I, I don't, so that's an interesting thing. This is a perfect out of it. Yeah, we're going to add that as a category. It could be, is this a perfect out? I mean, this is, as far as like, did he fulfill what he was going for? I think so. All right. Well, he didn't really

do that until he got to fulfilling this as first for now. That's just because the title

is the bombeter. So this is, you explain some bombeter. Unexplainable. I'm giving it. Okay. So the bombeter is one Aunt Linda, your dear Aunt Linda would love this, who has more, it's very accessible accessible. It's broad. Yeah. The Swifties would love it. 10, 10, 10, Ethan Iverson and Allen Iverson. It's got to be an Iverson that loves this record, a real connoisseur. Yeah. Yeah. Stockhows and would like it. Right. Christopher Stark, our friend. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. It's no bombeter. So I'm going to go, I'm going to go unusual. I'm going to drift off my usual five. And I'm going to go up to eight and say that this is a little bit snobby because, wait, is that what you got? No, just congratulate us. That's for finally. What the hell, man? How many weeks were we five? It's a bit hard. No, but this is, it's weird because I'm like, I'm not, this is not like an insider. Everybody knows this is the beginning

of the classic run. Yeah. Everyone knows this one. But I do think that to say, I'm not going to say this, this is the best out of these four or five or six records. It's like one big album. It's one big album, but this is a damn strong start. And I think the fact that he didn't win any Grammys didn't really have any big top 10 didn't have any hits. Yeah. You could say that it's the snobbyest of this. I mean, you know what, the snobbyest

of Steve's records is secret life a plan. Secret life a plan. I would totally do it on the show. Yeah. That's a, that's a, that's a snobby, right? As soon as you say, because you imagine being like, what do you like better from the classic run? See, like a plan. No, okay. It's not a snobby. Yeah. Hipster. But they wouldn't be wrong. I have a seven. I have a kind

“of a high one, too. Okay. First TV. I think that's pretty high. Yeah. It's not secret.”

Like I put secret life a plan. It's nine or 10. Yeah. You could almost be like, how could any Stevie Wonder be above five or certain level. Yeah. But I do find myself. I would say that this is like, it wouldn't be the first thing I would show someone who I knew had very broad. Well, because in this day and age, where everything is available at all times, like the, the, the genius and legendary status of Stevie Wonder is, is well known, right? So somebody

that's like, I love Stevie Wonder. And I love the Beatles. And I love, you know, Louvre didn't found a bit of Beethoven. And so Stevie, of course, inhibitions are talking about, like, this one wouldn't necessarily come up, right? You know, as, as one of the top one, or actually. By the way, just before we get to, is it better than, can I just point out some other albums that came out in this year? Yeah. So the Rolling Stones in 1970s, she released

exile on Main Street, which is one of their biggest albums, David Bowie, really Ziggy Stardust. Steelie Dan, can't buy a thrill. Louvre transformer, Neil Young Harvest, Al Green, I'm still in love with you. And then on, like, the jazz side of things, you got Chick-Rea with return to forever. Yeah. Big ass weather report. I sing the body, electric Charles Mink is letting my children hear music. Miles Davis on the corner. Oh, that's a good. That's a good record.

John Rockland's mom. Monovision. Oh, that's a big record. It's a big record. That was a big

“fusion. But what a year, man. 72, one of the all time great years. I think some Bobby”

Wilma came out in this year too. That was really good. Better than, is this album better than in revisions? Okay. Do we have to do interviews? Do you chose it? Well, I couldn't think of anything else. I mean, in a worse, I'll accept that. I think it's equal. I think it's the same thing. It's the same thing. Now, if they're both sitting there, which one would I take? Either one. I mean, like, one day, maybe I'm, I'm, I'm, the more, this

has been great for us to go through these albums, because as much as I've listened to them over the years and how much I love these four albums, the more I'm realizing, now in researching,

like, they're one of the same thing. That's always how it's felt like these are ones that

you can, like, just mix and match. Although they're so well crafted as albums, listen to this bad boy. Like, I've been doing, beginning that man on LP. Oh, my gosh, from beginning to end, everything on it, man. In order. In order. A Couture once, like, this is like the album, the photo, the art, the inside, our, our, how the lyrics are presented, especially on these LPs. That's amazing. Man, this is 10. I agree.

This is a 10. And shout out Robert Margala, who would Ali was, like, the engineer in the one, you know, programming and helping and doing all this stuff, one of the two associate producers. He was the art director of this, too. Like, this was kind of a small production

their picking this stuff. They didn't have, like, a bunch of entourage stuff. He did the art,

“well, talking book, Robert took the picture of Steve. He did the photograph. He's like,”

after an all-assession, we went up by the hot because they were in LA by that. Wait, do we have a bigger team to make the podcast that makes this podcast to make the interventions? Oh, that's, they were in there for five years. Okay, that's true. Okay, up next. Like, if this were, if there were an autoplay after this album, would you have for Couture once? Oh, I had 10 as well. Okay. Up next, what would be the next thing you would

play talking book? It's the next, you know, of the, of the classic four. It makes sense. Actually, I put off the wall for being in the classic. It makes sense. Thank you. I put Michael Jackson's off the wall because I feel like it's a, it's a cousin of this album in the sense that Michael Jackson had already made a bunch of music before he made off the wall. He was coming out of out of the Jackson five, Motown artist. And then he makes off the wall as his own like declaration of independence

as an artist, just like this is, and it's amazing. It's amazing. That was a cool kind of book

of the 70s for sure, a little bit, for sure. Great. Oh, check into our, Ben, Ben, I haven't been doing this recently because I'm overwhelmed with newsletters, but if you're looking for a new

“new, we have a good one. We have a great one. Yeah. That's what people are saying. They love it.”

Yeah. It's called you read it and it's available if you go to you'll here at dot com. You can sign of it. It's totally free. Well, it's free 99. You sent up and you get some behind the scenes,

stuff, and some stories about these albums that weren't included in the show are incredible

producer, Liz. Yeah. Produces this newsletter too. Shout out Liz, shout out Caleb, shout out Ian, shout out the whole open studio, and you'll here at Sam Mall and Steven and Steven's Charlie,

“intern Charlie. intern Charlie. Yeah. Um, I think we nailed it. I think we did, but we start over”

just move on to next week. Let's do another version. Until next time, we'll hear it. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]

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