Dave Ramsey: Get Rich and Stay Rich, Financial Decisions That Help You Build Wealth | Finance | E388

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I think it's an excellent time to be in business. I'm so excited for a 25-year-old entrepreneur right now. You're going to make some mistakes. You're going to stop your talk. You're still going to get a bloody nose. Oh, well, have added. Do it anyway, man. But this is the best time in your ministry. Personal finance expert hosts the Dave Ramsey show. This name is Dave Ramsey. Dave Ramsey. Dave Ramsey. Dave Ramsey. That was going to be the real estate guy. We had four million dollars

worth of real estate and we lost it all. We lost everything. We bankrupt. And we figured out that what we've been doing obviously didn't work. So we need a new plan. I don't borrow money. Period. 100% of the time debt equals risk. The argument is especially for high earners is that you can pay off your cut of cuts. A lot of people are really interested in points. Why is that still a hard line for you? There's tons of data, tons of pieces of research out there that show

that a credit card versus cash is 12 to 21% more spending. And if you add to it, oh, I'm getting

“points, then I'll even increase my spending yet more. So you gave up a dollar to get a penny?”

What do you feel is the biggest money mistake that younger people do right now? You grew up with this thing in your hand, your entire life that's a magic wand. You could push a button and anything happens. What that gives you guys is your abundance thinkers. You think anything's

possible because anything has always been possible. And that's the good part. The bad part is

Yap gang. More income doesn't automatically mean more wealth. In fact, some of the highest earners are also the most financially stressed. So what's really going on? Well, I got the opportunity to fly down to Nashville and ask Dave Ramsey in his home studio this very question. In this conversation today, Dave breaks down why making money and building wealth are two completely different skill sets. We unpack the behavioral traps that keep high earner stuck and the simple time-tested principles

that create lasting wealth. By the way, Dave first joined us on episode 344 last year where we talked all about how to build and scale a business that lasts. That was an incredible conversation. If

“you're an entrepreneur, you need to listen to that one and we are replaying that conversation this”

Friday, so make sure you check it out. And if you're new here, kindly take one second to follow us on YouTube and your favorite podcast app so you can keep listening, learning, and profiting. Dave, welcome back to Young and Profiting podcast. I'm honored to be with you again. I am so excited for this conversation. I'm so happy that we're getting to meet in person. I got to spend an hour

if you already. Our first interview is amazing. We're going to play it again on Friday. So everybody

gets your background stories. So everybody here is about your latest book, build a business. But today, I really want to focus on money problems for high earners because most of my listeners earn over $125,000. They're usually like between the ages of 35 and 45. And so I've got a lot of high achieving people tuning in. And a lot of these people like they know all the steps to know your baby steps. They've listened to you for years and other financial advisors. But they still don't

change. So why do you think people change even when they know the rules? They have the knowledge.

When I know it's not going to help my figure. But people don't change because they don't have

a real reason to change. They don't think it's worth the effort. It's worth the sacrifice. It's a pain gain thing. Is there enough gain for the pain? If I've got to engage in this and say, we tend to take the easy button, we tend to go the easy route. I think it's human nature. I'm the same way. I do the same thing. If I don't make myself stop and as an intellectual act of the wheel, say, wait a minute, I need to make better decisions on this particular subject. So I get a

better result. And people, you don't normally do that. It's an act of the wheel. Yeah. Now, I know that you're really known for hard lines, right? You take hard stances. You've got hard rules. Why do you think that you're so, you know, absoluteist in this way in your thinking of having these hard lines? Is it because of the things that have happened to you personally or because of all the collars that you've heard over the years, thousands of

people and just knowing kind of what's best for people? Yeah. Well, any hard line I take with

“anyone is because I believe that's what's best for them. I'm not doing it just to make a stand.”

I'm saying this is a, you know, if you were my best friend, if you were my little brother, my little sister, this is what I would tell you to do. And so that's not ever changed from the day we got on the air. And there are some some tactical things that we don't take hard lines on, but then there are some principles and some processes that are now proven. And so, you know, I've got a grandkids. And if one I'm standing on the edge of the roof,

I need to take a hard line because the law of gravity works every time. And it's going to cause harm to them if they don't get away from the edge of the roof. And I love them and I don't want to get hurt. So that's a hard line, but the law of gravity is a principle. We can count on it. There's a principle that when you give all your money to city bank or you give all your money to

“Ford Motor Company, you don't have any money. Yeah. And that's what debt does. It steals your most”

powerful wealth building tool, which is your income. And so that's a principle. And I don't really

need to think about that anymore. And it was certainly influenced. Initially when we started teaching this stuff almost 40 years ago when we went broke, you know, that influences it. But these days, it's more influenced by tens of millions of people that have followed what we asked them to do, and it caused a positive result. Yeah. They've succeeded because of it. Yeah. So I know that you were on the show before you talked a lot about your financial collapse. But for those who don't

know about what happened to you personally, do you mind just going into it a little bit and then telling us some of the big lessons that you learned from that period? Well, I've got a degree in finance and specialization in real estate. I was going to be the real estate guy. And I started buying real estate and nothing down flipped this house before shipping Joanna Reborn. And so we've been doing this long time. And I went broke because I was so highly leverage. I borrowed so much money in the bank

called our notes. We had four million dollars worth of real estate and we lost it all, starting from nothing. And so it was 28 years old at the bottom and brand new baby, a toddler and a married hanging on by a thread. And we lost everything. We were bankrupt. And in the process, I had met God

on the way up. And I got to know God on the way down. And someone said, hey, here's what the Bible says

about money. Now, that was weird to me because I was a hell-raising beard-drink at Hillbill. And what the Bible got to do with the money? And so I'm looking at these Proverbs and they sounded like my grandmother, like live on less than you make, you know, and have a plan. And, you know, basic common sense, right? And so I started living our lives that way and just because we figured out that what we've been doing obviously didn't work, right? So we need a new plan. And then we start

“sharing it with some people and, you know, that was 30 years ago. Yeah, and that's how it all started.”

So, like I mentioned, you're really known for it for these hard lines. And I feel like because we've already, you know, talked before for an hour, then maybe I can like push you on these hard lines, but tell you what other people say against them. And you tell me why you feel they're still a hard line or if over the years you've conceded on this hard line. Okay. Okay. So let's start with no credit cards ever. Now, the argument is especially for high earners is that you can pay off your

credit cards right away, pay off the full balance. And a lot of people are really interested in points, especially Gen Z, millennials for all about our points, getting free travel, free hotel free flights. Why is that still a hard line for you? Well, the only reason is just the data doesn't

Hello. Okay. And the data tells us any of us that do any digital marketing. And I've got

a large firm and a lot of digital marketing. We know the friction decreases spending. If it's harder to navigate the website to buy you lose people, they band in the cart, right? And so you abandon purchases where there are friction. The less friction there is, the more increase in spending there is. And there's tons of data, tons of pieces of research out there that show that a credit card versus cash, nobody carries cash. Yeah. But a credit card versus cash is 12 to 21% more spending.

And if you add to it, oh, I'm getting points. Thank you Samuel L Jackson, right? And I'm getting points. What's in your wallet? Then I'll even increase my spending yet more. And so, you know, and there's even examples of that in the commercials. They're advertising. Oh, I'll pay for this for you. So I get the points. And you know, so you gave up a dollar to get a penny. How's that

increase wealth? And then the second piece of this is, so you do increase spending is the biggest problem

because you're, it's a less friction. And let's go all the way over to like Apple Pay. You don't even see an expenditure. It's just you wave a wand and stuff happens, right? And so that's the ultimate and psychological lack of friction. And so you're going to spend more, you're just spend more. It's easy, just wave a wand, wave a wand. And I do too. I mean, you know, we were on a cruise the other day

“sharing an eye in my wife and, you know, you're room key buys everything on the boat, right?”

Because they don't have any transactions, not even your credit card, not even your debit card, not anything, no cash. And so, you know, I'm just buying stuff. And I'm like, I teach this. And look at what I'm doing. You know, it's crazy. So anyway, that's the thing one. And then thing two is, there's no, Pete, no credible data that says using points calls as wealth. As a matter of fact, we have studied the largest study of millionaires ever done at Ramsey Research,

10,167 of them. And the number of them that said, I became a millionaire because of my points,

is zero. None. And so it's a game and you're playing with a multi-billion dollar company who has

more algorithms tracking your behavior patterns than you can even imagine and believe me, they're not coming out on the short end of this. It's a consumer issue.

“Now, what about credit cards for a business for companies? How do you feel about that?”

I use debit cards here. We've got about 85 people inside Ramsey that have a Ramsey debit card, like a company card. And so they spend it and it comes out the account. And so the debit card does every single thing that credit card will do. And some debit cards even have points with them now. Some of them even have airline models and stuff. But I just, I'm not going to chase pennies with dollars. It doesn't the logic of that. And you know, I get, I get 2% back. So you spend $100,000. You got two

grand. Yeah. How does that equate to wealth? It doesn't. It's bad math. Yeah, fam. You just realized your business needs to hire somebody yesterday. How do you find great candidates fast? Easy. Use indeed. When it comes to hiring, indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post-scene on other job sites. Indeed, sponsor jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With sponsor jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for relevant candidates.

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Go to Shopify.com/halla. I interviewed Michael McCallow. It's recently, if you're familiar with him, and he taught me about something called the Parkinson's Law, which basically, as pioneers get more money when they have more money in their bank account, they just end up spending more because visibly they can see more money. She think it's the same thing with credit cards. Like if you know we've got a $20,000 limit then suddenly. Yeah, it's out of sight out of mind. It's the same

Parkinson's Law plus the closet space too. In your home, if you have an empty closet it's going to fill up. There'll be some junk in there in about 10 months, you know. And so your garage does the same thing, right? So that applies to everything. And there's a sense of that. And the way we've seen it like in the old days when I first started doing this on talk radio back in the

“day, we would have someone called in and say, "Hey, I got a $300 a month, raise, how'd you celebrate?”

I bought a $400 a month car payment." You know, yeah, that's Parkinson's Law too. It's the same thing. If it's there, I have to spend it. Right? And so yeah, I do agree with that. And I think you got to watch that. And there's an interesting thing with the credit card too that kind of goes with the same thing. And no, again, no one spends cash. I actually use cash sometimes. I'm not the cash guy. I'm a whole guy. So that's possible. I don't understand everybody's not going to do that.

What's interesting is if I'm going to buy something, I hand you money. You keep it.

And I get the item. Yeah. It's like when you're a little child, you're trading always.

It's interesting visual that when you hand someone to card, even if it's a debit card, they hand the card back. And you get the thing. Isn't that an interesting visual? There's your trade took place. Yeah, that is really interesting. And it probably makes you feel like you're not really giving up anything to get it. Exactly. That's a frictionless problem we're talking about. Yeah. Okay. So another hard line, which is on the same line. So we don't have to spend too much

time on it. But there's no such thing as good debt. So even like mortgages on a house. You believe there's no such thing as good debt. Eventually. I mean, we don't yell at people for taking

out a mortgage on our programs and in our processes. I don't borrow money. Period. I've never borrowed

any money since I went broke. And I built everything with organic cash along the way 100% it means I had to go slower than some people and how does big is some people. But I'm fine with that. I'm not going to lose it either. So the thing that we don't equate with debt, hardly anywhere in our society or in this discussion is 100% of the time debt equals risk. Little debt, little risk, small interest rate debt, small debt, little risk, big debt,

big risk. But people don't think about it. Yeah. We only talk about debt as if there's one possible outcome and it's a positive outcome. And we always laugh and say there's been we've done detailed research and 100% of the foreclosures occur on a home of the mortgage. So if you want to destabilize your retirement, go into retirement with a mortgage. Think about it because you know,

It's not a plan. And again, referring back to that millionaire study, we found basically two

things that caused people to get their first $1 to $5 million in that worth. It was a well-funded

retirement plan taking advantage of good mutual funds and compound interest. And that'd be $7,800,000 bucks maybe after 10 or 12 years were working on it hard and a paid off $5,800, $9,000. Those two things combined, the number of them that had paid off houses has a big component of their first million dollars was huge. There's a correlation between it and wealth building. That makes sense. And to that point,

“you don't believe that you should have any debt into retirement. Like once you retire, you should be”

totally debt-free. It's the best way, obviously, to have a stable situation. And there's the number of times I talked to someone that, you know, they've got a mortgage and then they've run through their nest egg. And now they've got a mortgage and they're trying to figure out how they're going to support that. And so it's devastating. Yeah. Okay, one more hard line, debt snowball over avalanche. So the argument is that avalanche method could actually help you save more money

whereas you prefer the snowball method, which pays off the smallest bounces first. Right. The

avalanche method pays off the highest interest rate to smallest interest rate, which is purported to be mathematically advantageous. Then debt snowball pays off the smallest debt to the largest debt, which is a feedback loop because a personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. We started the discussion with why don't people do this because they don't get positive feedback. If you go on, if you go to the gym for three months and you don't lose weight and your goal

was to go to the gym to lose weight, you're quick on the gym because you got no feedback loop. Okay, so the positive on the debt snowball is the feedback loop by pay off the little ones like, whoa, and they're pay off another one like, whoa, and hope starts to kick in and as you get more excited, you'll sacrifice even deeper and the math gets better and better and better. But here's the big problem with the avalanche and people saying it's mathematically advantageous. It's actually

“not because if you're going to do the real math on it, below the surface, you have to say,”

what's the probability of completion? Probability of completion because of the feedback loop with the snowball is way higher than the probability of completion on the avalanche. Most people don't finish it because they don't get positive feedback. Yeah. And so if you add in probability of completion and you got a high probability of completion versus a low one, you put that in the math, which is an actual proper sophisticated way of looking

at the mathematics, then you would say, oh, that snowball is actually mathematically advantageous. Yeah. Well, you must be on to something because you've helped millions of people at this point get debt free and become financially free. So I have a theme for this episode. I'm calling it Mo money, Mo problems. So back to the facts. You like it. That my listeners are doing really well. They're high earners. A lot of them are entrepreneurs. They're earning, you know, well over six

figures. Some of them are million dollars a year. Wow. And so I want to go through some financial scenarios that a lot of high earners might be facing. Not just people or I don't think my listeners are in, you know, so much debt and things like that. I think they're just worried about the right moves to do now that they actually have money. So the first scenario I have is a 35 year old person works in tech. They're making $300,000 a year. They've got a really high paying executive job.

Their lifestyle is built around their high paycheck. But they see layoffs happening. And they're worried that, you know, one day suddenly their high paying job will just go away. So what do you think their plan should be? How should they prepare knowing that job security today is an issue?

Yeah. Well, job security is always an issue. And you don't want to fall for what we call

the myth of continuity. The myth of continuity is because it's been this way. It's always going to be this way. It's not. It's not always going to stick to it. It's going to get, it's going to change.

“It's going to be better or worse. 100% of the time. So I think you need to work a plan that works”

when times are good and when times are bad. And that's the advantage of the luteite Ramsey plan. You know, the Ramsey plan that's just so grim all basic. Live on less than you make. Have a written budget. Always be generous. Always have an emergency fund. Get out of that and stay out of debt. If you're doing that and you make 300K and you've got an emergency fund, you don't have any payments, you're okay. You know, you're planning and you're investing

for your future and your generous, you know, you're going to be okay and you have prepared properly. Oh, by the way, that works. If you don't get laid off too, you'll still end up with a bunch of money.

go into your budget? Like, like, what should their stuff should be in terms of creating a sustainable budget? The only budgets that work is the married couple works together and they both have a vote and they both agree to it and stick to it. And you develop the plan before the month begins. And we call it a zero-based budget. And that's where you take your income before the month begins. And you give every dollar and assignment, every dollar and name down to zero. Now, we're not

talking about your checking account balance. We're talking about your budget. So if you've got $25,000 coming in a month, $300,000 plus your most taxes, right? But I mean, if you got that coming, $20,000,000 coming in, then we're going to put 20 at the top of the page and we're going to give

“every dollar and assign every dollar a name. That's why we name our budgeting app every dollar.”

So give it because and then we're in agreement and then we stick to that. And all you're doing there is being intentional. A budget, John Maxwell used to say a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And so we run about a $300,000 company here. Every profits center has a budget. Before the month begins, before the quarter begins, before the year begins, we lay out rolling 12, rolling 18. What we projecting revenues to be and where they're

going to go. And what the resulting profits are. And then we manage to that budget. We manage to that.

And that's what you're doing in a household. And so we always say, you know, if you work for a company

called you incorporated and you manage money for you incorporate the way you manage money for you now, would you fire you? And I would fire somebody here if they have budget, P&L responsibility and they don't do a budget. And they don't stick to it. They just really nearly go do whatever they want to do and impulse a push. You know, I mean, you can't you just can't operate that way and be successful. It's an intent winning is an intentional act. And budget is where we become intentional with

their money. Yeah. Now, I know a lot of earners, high earners, you know, as they start to break, you know, 500,000 dollars a year, a million a year. They might lose sight of like needing a budget. They might feel like, well, I make so much money. I don't need a budget anymore. Do you feel like there's any problems with that kind of a thinking? Yeah, because it's just chaotic and wasteful as one ends

up happening. You're not going to go broke because of it. You know, you're making a million dollars a year

and you're spending like a crazy person. That's fine. You're probably going to be okay until you

“quit making a million. But the problem is you just didn't get the best squeeze for the juice, right?”

I mean, you didn't get the best, you know, I don't want to have, I don't want to make that kind of money and look up 10 years later and have nothing to show for it. That would be like having a hangover. Yeah. And it'd be awful. And so I want you to win. I want you to get the most out of this possible. All a budget is, again, is a spending plan. It's not not to be restrictive. It's just you're telling your money what to do and then you stick to what you want to do. It's your deal. You

decide. And the same thing's trying to company. And so, you know, if we were running, instead of a 300 million dollar company, if we were running a three billion dollar company, we wouldn't say, oh, we don't need to do budgets now. Yeah. Okay. So let's take this scenario. Somebody's been making a lot of money in their 30s. They haven't been saving that much. They haven't thought about retirement. They hit 40. And they realized they only have a couple hundred grand for retirement

saved, even though they've been making a whole bunch of money in their 30s. What should they do next? Well, obviously, you got to play some catch up. And there's some urgency, but not panic. I love urgency because it gets people moving. It just made a change. I like urgency in my own life.

I think it's a good thing. So, you know, let's just again, I, the framework we always use and

you're aware this is the baby steps. And so, we're going to make sure you're out of that and have an emergency fund. Once you've done all that, then let's start stocking some money. Let's start putting 15% of your income away. If you're 40 years old, you make an average income. And you start putting 15% of your income away. Plus or minus, I'm matching a good Roth IRA and good mutual funds that give you market rates of return. You can be a multi-millionaire. Easily in 25 years.

And mathematically. And so, but you've got to do it. You can't just talk about it. It's not theory. The number one problem with retirement planning and in retirement investing is not what people put money in. It's that they don't put money in. You've got to put money in there for there be some

“money in there. It's a pretty simple math thing. And so, that's what you've got to gear up here.”

It just gets emergency and start, we'll get started stocking some money away. We got to get this 401k jacked up and we got to learn a little bit about this and have some motivation and quick, you know, quick spending like wearing Congress. Yeah. Okay, last one is about taxes. So, somebody owns a business. They're making, you know, let's say $5 million a year. And they've become obsessed with saving on taxes. They're like me. They move to Austin to try to save on taxes.

And so much of their decision-making energy around their business is saving on taxes. What's your

While you're doing that, if you can do that in such a way that it saves on taxes,

“fine. But if you do something to save on taxes and when people get obsessed with this is what we do,”

I've done it too in the past, not in a long, long time, but I used to do it. If you get obsessed with I hate taxes so bad that I'm going to do this to save on taxes, but it's stupid. It's bad business. It's a bad financial decision. But, you know, and so I, I won here, but I lost 10 over here. And, and that's a bad idea. An example of that is the simple buying something that is not needed because you can write it off. Well, I mean, if you spend $100,000 on the item that is,

that is expensive, and that calendar year depending on the category of the item, but let's call that expenseable. And you're in a 25% tax bracket, you save $25,000 in taxes. You know, save 100,000. Yeah. But you bought $100,000 worth of stuff. You didn't meet. So you gave up a hundred to save

“25 because of your obsession with taxes. I mean, your accountant said something stupid like you”

need to write off. But you only write off that bad to trade it all for a quarter. That's dumb. And that's a very simplistic way of that motivation of tax savings getting out of hand. And I, I've seen a lot of small business people do that. Oh, I bought this because of my accountant's

needs to write off. And no, not if you don't need it, all expenses coming off the bottom line

of it are coming out of the P&L of a business should be looked at through the lens of I need to return on that investment. Oh, and I can write it off. Not zero return on investment, but I get to write it off. That's a dollar for a quarter. Don't make that trade. Yeah. I find myself, you know, thinking about taxes and making these decisions all the time. I hate them. I get, I get really

“angry at that time of year. It's really hard for me. I hate it. But I still, I have never been able”

away, you know, this idea, it always makes me angry, too. My people say, "Oh, the rich paying no taxes." I don't, I'm pretty rich. And I don't know what those people are. I don't, I haven't been able to get out of it. So, you know, we're very diligent and very careful. We try to learn any techniques we can. But it has to first be economically, give me a rate of return on the investment from a business expense perspective. Then it's a good tax move. Not it's a good tax move and

it sucks over here. Yeah, makes sense. So, I feel like that was super helpful for everybody who's a high earner has a business. Now, I also have listeners who are, you know, wanting to be high earners. They're Gen Z. They might be taking their first job. They're in college. What do you feel is the biggest money mistake that younger people do right now? Well, the Gen Z and millennials, we've got a thousand folks on our team and probably 700 of them fall in that category. And so,

I have become a huge fan of those two generations. And part of it is from a business perspective

and from a career and earning perspective. So, here's what you've got at your advantage if you're a

Gen Z or a millennial. You grew up with this thing in your hand, your entire life that's a magic wand. You could push a button and anything happens. Stuff shows up on your porch. You can access the world's knowledge. You can do anything with it. Find out what the weather is, dodge a tornado, in whatever it is. It's all right there in your hand. And so, because of that, that's not native to my generation. That's native to your generation. And what that gives you guys is your abundance

thinkers. You think there's anything possible because anything has always been possible. I just wave this wand and stuff happens. It's amazing. And you really get gosh. And that's the good part. The bad part is, sometimes what goes with that and pants your question along the form is impatience.

I want it right now because I've always gotten it right now. And you don't get good barbecue

out of the microwave. Good barbecue has to be cooked a long time, like all we can't. I mean, you're in Austin, Texas, good barbecue, right? There's no such thing as microwave barbecue. It's good. There's not that's not a sense anywhere. And so, look at your career like barbecue. You got to cook it. It's going to take a while. It's not going to be instant. It's going to be sometimes frustratingly slow. And especially if you're used to not things being slow, right? And so, just guard against that.

And that's normal in maturity, whether you're 55 or 25, the ability to delay pleasure for a greater good. But it's amplified. In this case, it's not immature. It's amplified by this

building a good career, building a brand depth of knowledge. And you've been at this seven years.

Yeah. And you're kicking it girl. I mean, you're so proud of you. Don't say you're great job. And everybody knows who you are. It's a, you know, you're blowing up. But seven years, not seven minutes. Yeah. And you, and you show up all the time and you're sharp and you're on it day after day and time after time and every time we turn it on, we get the same girl, right? Same lady. And

“so that that's why you're winning. It's this persistence over time. Yeah. Now you, you mentioned that”

you have eight grandkids. Are you worried about AI and technology? And do you worry about their careers in their ability to get that experience given that AI? Yeah. I think it was fabulous. AI is, I wasn't

worried about the internet when it came on. I started before the internet, right? I said, I wasn't worried

about that. I wasn't worried about when cable TV came on. It didn't bother me. Every one of these things represent opportunity. There's going to be more AI millionaires in Gen Z and more AI millionaires out of millennials than any group of millionaires we've ever seen. Because they're going to take it as a tool and learn how to use it. It works for you. You don't work for it. Yeah. Period. If you just look at it as a tool, you know, it's like, you know, I'm worried that they

in the Henry Ford started making cars. And so we don't have to ride in a horse and buggy. No, it means I can get to someplace faster. I can deliver my goods and services faster. It's called

“a business opportunity. Man, let's get with it. This is efficient delivery mechanisms, right?”

And efficient work mechanisms. Now, if you're doing something that AI does now, you may need to do some different and make it work for you instead of replacing your job. But hey, welcome to the world. I mean, if you used to make whips for horses and and bridles for horses, you had to get new job because Henry Ford put you out of business, you know? And so yeah, that's cool. But yeah, AI is wonderful. The thing I do worry about when my grandkids is the access to evil that the

phone and that the AI, it gives a gateway into children's lives of evil that shouldn't be there. Tell me more about that. Well, we end up with stuff like sex trafficking. Yeah. And we end up with people being groomed, we end up with 12-year-olds bullying each other. And the misuse of these wonderful technologies, the evil misuse. And some of it's just so horrendous. And so we have to teach our kids to not get addicted to screens and to not think that everything on there is what it says

it is because most of it isn't, most of it's the eye, including your Instagram reel because your life's not really that pretty none of it is, right? And so that's, you know, I've seen me in the morning, right? My hair doesn't look this good. And so, you know, that whole thing, right? So we ought to teach the kids that, you know, what's real and what's artificial intelligence, artificial sweeteners, different than sweetener. You know, what, you know, so we have to teach

some good spiritual and philosophical foundations for those kids to not become victims of this. And I do worry about that with the little ones in particular because there's some real nasty stuff out there. Yeah. Well, hopefully it all works out and, you know, kids get educated on how to tell what's AI versus what I'm, I'm sure that would be like part of school moving forward because it's going to be such a big part of it. I think you guys will catch on faster. It's my generation. I had

to think pop up on AI on me the other day. And then it's a fraudulent thing, me saying something. I don't say, you know, you actually like a video of it. Yeah, it's not even really good. It looks like a kung fu movie that I could just imagine, right? The words don't match, but it went everywhere. And like my 65 year old friends are emailing my wife going, what did Dave say that on Facebook for? Or not? Dave didn't say that. You know, they're more susceptible and naive. Yeah. I think

for your generation. Your generation is naturally cynical for good reason about your like,

is that real immediately? First thing goes into your mind, which is awesome. So I think you're

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Would you give us the lay of the land of Ramsey Solutions like what are the different revenue

“generators, where are you guys making the most money right now with all your products and offers?”

Consumer facing the fastest growing thing is the every dollar app. It's exploding and it's we've spent an amazing amount of money time effort, intellectual calories on it, iterating it and building it and iterating. We do every day who we're going to every day making it better. And it's going nuts. The broadcast properties is what we call them but they're not really broadcasts. We still have a talk radio show that is also on YouTube and also on podcasts. The mothership

so to speak the Ramsey show and those things through all the different platforms we're able to monetize with ad revenues. It's pretty substantial and that revenue is moved. We still have a lot of talk radio revenue. There's still people listening to talk radio. I don't know where they are but they're out there and so that revenue is still very real and we still got one of the largest talk radio networks so that's that stream is still there. I don't know how long it's

going to be there. I don't think it 10 years. I'll be at the same but the Spotify's and YouTube's the world had a huge impact and so we're on everything and we're monetizing it with ads and with product delivery mentions, integrated into show notes and integrated into the show bodies and so forth.

7 million students have been through it and it's continuing to grow. There's a real move in that

world to adopt the adoption process to adopt curriculum in high schools has been mandated by the states and 38 states to teach personal finance and we're the premier curriculum in that the

“best by far and so that's continuing to grow. I think goodness and that's because that's a great”

thing if you can get this stuff in high school. Obviously we've got the publishing arm and we still putting out number one by selling books every year and have for decades. It's not a huge percentage of our revenue but it's still a great brand mix and great tip of the spear so to speak. As we go for, we've got, I think, a smart dollar that is our corporate HR benefit to teach our lessons

it's like the old financial piece university but taught in corporate America and so like you

hall has done it. Costco is doing it companies like that and a lot of small and medium size companies are buying that and that's a massive thing. It's real quiet but it's beat it because it's beat so the consumer doesn't really see it that much but it's a really massive and really moving

“and then our whole trade leadership brand has exploded. It's gone crazy. Where we cook, we cook”

about 10,000 small businesses. How to run a business and it came out of the old book I did about 15 years ago called on to leadership. It's how we ran our business and we start teaching other people how to do it and so that's a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of small business people because I've been one my whole life. Yeah, now I learned I was listening to some of your interviews that you've done recently and I heard you say that the radio show lost money for like

10 years or something like that like it was like not making money for for many years so how do you think of certain aspects of your business that actually don't make money and can you talk about some of the biggest lead generators that might not really make money but are still important to your business? Well that's exactly what was as lead generator and so we didn't look at it as we did look at it as a being the other losing money because I wanted to fight through and actually get some

ads sold so to cover the cost of running the thing but it took forever but the reason we kept doing it and in closed it if we had another business unit there's doing that we might close it but it was generating all the leads you know we were getting we're generating best-selling books because of the show we're generating arenas full of people because of the show we were generating all these other things because of the show because talk radio in those days was in it's seeneth it was like a podcast

“today like one of the top podcasts we were on the top top radio shows so that's why we kept it going”

now we've had other areas where we lost money but it wasn't generating any wasn't causing any so we just closed those that's an failed experiment welcome to business yeah and so I know that you have a podcast network you've got the the Ramsey network I'm not sure if you know this about me I have a podcast network as well I have the yet media network has 45 shows so I wrote some people like Jenna Kutcher and Russell Bronson and Trent Shelton and I've had Amy Porterfield

the Lori Harder and all these really big business self improvement podcasters in my network I

grow and monetize them so Ramsey network is an amazing network and you've got awesome

personalities I've interviewed a lot of people that have you know shows under your network how do you think about talent how did you start deciding that you wanted to have a network in my mind having a network you sort of the pinnacle of creator entrepreneurship like you're not just a creator entrepreneur now you monetize other creators that's kind of the top of you know the mountain so to speak so so why did you decide to start a network and how did you first start picking

your talent really good way of saying that I haven't actually looked at that way that's that's really smart the reason we did it was because we started studying 18 years ago yeah I'm 65 so 18 years ago we started studying succession planning and on family businesses and so we figured out okay you got to train the next generation gen two of owners you've got to have a stable full of excellent leaders to be able to when I'm not here to run the business and to run and so forth the thing we

couldn't figure out and we couldn't find any best practices on was how to have this place survive when I die if I'm the only talent and if I'm the only one here a persona right and um because

and sometimes that happens with a pastor when they pass away if their son or daughter tries to take

“the church it doesn't work or sometimes it happens a small business so we start studying and we figured”

out Rachel my daughter is a huge got a huge social footprint does extremely well was really blowing up at that time starting and we said well I hate to put the whole place on her shoulders it's not very well diversified it's also emotionally crushing to carry the whole weight of everything your dad built and then if you if you stumble oh it's it's double hard right so I'm wouldn't do that to my own daughter and so we started coming up with this idea of one to many rather than one to

one hand off and so it was a succession plan to have to brand-hand off and so but we started studying okay what percentage of a revenue comes from me running my mouth and in those days it was 98 percent and we said well what happens if I die that means this whole place folds up bad idea for all the people to work here you know and bad idea for have worked 25 years to build something and it just dies when you do so we said all right let's start building that today we've actually transitioned

finally to where it's about 96 percent of the revenue would survive if I'm not here oh wow

and so hopefully people would be sad but revenue wise they're okay yeah do you suggest that every business have some sort of show or or way to get get get an audience in that and in the way that you

“guys do at Ramsey no you know you need to think about how you can interact with the public but not”

you know like for instance in all trade leadership we've got a bazillion eating in air companies yeah what are they going to need there company doesn't need a show that's probably he might but he might not or she might not okay every dentist doesn't need a show but but do they need some kind of interface with technology and with these platforms yeah yeah some Instagram and you know whatever the platform is appropriate to where their audiences to where their customer

base is they need to be there and so but when Twitter got hot a thousand years ago when it was a

big deal and first started there was a whole period of time people ran around saying everyone needs a

Twitter account and everybody doesn't need a Twitter account yeah they don't they and not for sure today they don't but everybody doesn't need an Instagram account everybody doesn't need a podcast but you

“know you need to think about is there a place for this and do I have something to say that somebody”

actually wants to hear can I provide a service can I give information that's helpful and but Instagram reels will do that you don't have to go all the way into the podcast world to do it yeah and sometimes it could be real life having billboards or something like that exactly can go back to old school and a lot of stuff yeah yeah um okay so you mentioned that you were really excited about this app it's called the is it called the every day app every dollar every dollar

has a name yeah and is it a subscription model yes talk to us about why that excites you so much and why you focus so much on that in your business well in this case um from a revenue perspective it's wonderful because subscription models are obviously recurring revenue I don't have to go leave the cave kill something and drag it home every morning it's already coming in what we used to call in the old days mailbox money right and so it's a beautiful thing about having some best selling

books I still get royalty checks literally in the mailbox and from books I did 20 years ago because they're still out there selling at some level so that's mailbox money in that sense and so subscription is recurring revenue that's a wonderful thing the thing though in the digital setting like an app or something you like that that subscription is um it forces me as the owner and my team to be of service every stinking day otherwise you get the churn dragon

and they leave and they don't stay because they didn't get helped and so if I can be of service to you every day and be a little bit better tomorrow than I was today and whole lot better this time next year that I was today then you're gonna stick with it and so it challenges me to love my customer better and to add value to their life better because the net business result is they stick around and one of the things we have around here is if you help enough people you don't have to worry about money

and changing with the market because a hundred percent of the time tomorrow's different

than today, always getting better, always serving more, always helping more help for the new

where people stay with you and then you have this wonderful thing called recurring revenue and if you don't meet that challenge your subscription model will follow up like a Walmart tent you'll crash because you'll become so stinking irrelevant in 20 seconds and the other good news is that you can fix it quickly, you can change it quick, easy, I print a book, it's analog, it's I can fix it, there's a mistype in the thing, I can't fix it, I find it four years later,

I can't fix it, I can't want to recall all the books because of one misspell word no but I can jump on this thinking app or a website or whatever digital product and we can iterate, iterate, iterate and get better, and test and test and test and work and help you and let you yell at us and let you smile at us and man we have all this wonderful interaction with our customer. Trust is so important especially with a subscription model, a lot of the people tuning in here

are creator entrepreneurs and their whole business is basically trust and people buying their courses or their mastermind subscriptions, what do your thoughts about building trust with your

“audience like what are the key things that we need to do? Well I mean I think of it as just a relationship”

and how do you build trust in a relationship? What does it mean to be trust worthy as a dad or a husband or a mom? What does it mean to be worthy of trust? Well one thing comes to mind immediately is obviously telling the truth, being authentic is another thing, that's a form of truth. Another thing is incredible consistency. You know earlier you were challenged or me on some of the things

that are set about me negative all over the place about, he's a hard line on this, he never changes,

he never changes. And for that reason I'm very trustworthy, you may or may not agree with Ramsey, but you 100% know we're going to say it again exactly the way we said it before because we really do believe it and we really do believe it's best and so it's a trust worthy source because it's you can count on it, it's solid, we know what's going to happen, it's repeatable and so if you think about someone you hire that's on your team and you can trust them, well they proven their

competence, they proven their integrity and it's all repeatable. Yeah okay so I end my show with two questions that I ask all of my guests. Okay the first one is what is one actionable thing our young and profiteers can do today to become more profitable tomorrow. Quit trying to figure out how to make money before you figure out how to help someone. Figure out how to help them first. Then figure out how to make money on it.

“And what would you say your secret to profiting in life is? This can go beyond finance.”

Open hand, generosity. Again if you can take other put other people's best interest ahead of your own Godl to take care of you, it works out and it has for 40 years. I prospered beyond my wildest imagination when I quit trying to take care of Dave first. Instead I said I'm going to love that person well. I'm going to love that person well. Somebody's not going to like it. Somebody's not going to understand it but I don't care. I'm going to do what I think I would do from my little sister, my little brother, my

my mother, my dad, my treat them like I would treat family and I'm going to do the right thing and then I'm going to try to figure out how to be wise about it where I can actually stay open and that's worked out really well. Yeah. Any other last words for the entrepreneurs

“tuning in right now? I think it's an excellent time to be in business. Probably the best time in”

human history right now. I'm so excited for a 25-year-old entrepreneur right now. You're going to make some mistakes. You're going to stub your toe. You're still going to get a bloody nose. Oh well, have at it. Do it anyway, man. But this is the best time in human history. You can get a product, design, idea, to market so fast right now. You can serve people so quickly and so easily right now. If you ever were going to be an entrepreneur any time since the sun came up the first time,

this is the time right now. We're going to really learn more about you and everything.

Oh, great solutions, not calm. Yeah. It's all there. Amazing. Well, for all those links in the

much. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

“Yeah, fam. I have to say it was super inspiring to sit down with Dave Ramsey face to face.”

Now, David somebody who's in my world. So he owns a media company. He's got over a thousand employees and he's got a huge office and studios in Nashville. And this was one of the most inspiring moments for me as a podcast or just flying out to Nashville interviewing Dave Ramsey

in the flesh. Going to see his amazing studios and offices and everything that he's built,

his company makes $300 million a year. And it's just so inspiring. And so I want to go over some of the top things that I learned with him on that day. And here are the three things that I want

“you to remember from this conversation. Number one is adding friction to your spending. Dave broke”

down how easy swipe spending fuels lifestyle creep, especially for high earners and why chasing points can distract you from the real goal. Makes spending harder on purpose that means removing saved cards, stopping the mindless swipes, and forcing every purchase to be more intentional. Second, treat debt like risk, not like a masking. Dave's message was simple.

Dead always increases your exposure. Bigger payments mean less breathing room, less peace,

and fewer options when life hits. Entrepreneurs need optionality and optionality comes from fewer obligations. Third, build a plan that you will finish. Dave explained why the method that gets completed beats the optimal methods that gets abandoned. That means a clear budget, quick wins, and automatic habits like consistently investing, and staying focused on progress over perfection. So my challenge to you is to make a move today. Add friction, cut a payment, assign every dollar

a job. Small discipline choices compound into freedom. All right, yeah, gang. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did, share it with a friend who needs a money reset. Now, yeah, fam, if you prefer to watch your podcast on videos, I'm doing a lot more in-person content this year, so this

“episode with Dave is uploaded to our YouTube channel. I highly recommend if you want to level up your”

finances to rewatch this, and actually watch the video because I think there's something special about watching a real life conversation. So if you like to watch your videos, check out YouTube. We can also find me on LinkedIn, just search for my name, it's Halata or Instagram, @yapwithhala, and I love interacting with you all, so make sure you DM me, let me know what you think about the show, let me know any feedback that you have. Until next time, this is your host,

Halata Hot aka the podcast princess signing off.