Scott Galloway: Stop Chasing Passion and Build a Career That Pays Off | Career | YAPClassic

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“App gang the old rule book to success is broken.”

Earlier this week on Monday we talked about how simply working hard isn't enough anymore to get ahead. But when you zoom out for a second the conversation gets even bigger. Today's the app classic explores why success actually feels harder for younger generations in the first place.

And nobody breaks that down quite like Scott Galloway, entrepreneur and why you professor and bestselling author. Major economic shifts, changing social dynamics, the world we live in today looks totally different than the one that our parents grew up in. In this episode we dig into what's really driving that and why understanding it is the

first step to building a life that actually works today. So buckle up, take notes and thank me later. Youngimprofitors we have Scott Galloway on the show. What a thrill. What a thrill.

Oh my gosh you're welcome. So Scott let's get started in terms of your upbringing and your childhood. You say your childhood was remarkably unremarkable and I'd love to understand do you think that you would have thought you would have been come, you know, the Uber successful person that you are today or anybody around you at that time, I'd love to hear about your

childhood. Born and raised by a single immigrant mother who lived in Diet of Secretary, really remarkably unremarkable. I didn't do that well on the SAT, I did okay academically. But it wasn't a sob story, we had a nice life, we took nice vacations, I had someone

“to rationally passionate about my well-being, which I think is kind of one of the key pillars”

of success, that being my mother, I had nice friends. So but it was I graduated from high school with a 3.2 GPA, 1100 on the SAT, but the difference was the big hand a government lifted me up, the admissions rate at UCLA when I applied with 76% and I had to apply twice, but they let me in and I still got, you know, I rewarded their faith in me with a 2.27 GPA undergraduate GPA, and then a second stroke a lot, Berkeley

decided to let me in the graduate school and then I kind of got my act together, but I have often up until the age of 40, I talked about my background as if I overcame something. And when I realized how I was, I got older and I was just getting a little bit more perspective. You know, I started to hit the lottery, being born a white heterosexual male in the mid-60s,

meant that I came of age when there was free amazing state sponsored education, see

above UCLA and Berkeley, I came into my professional earning years with processing power and the kind of the rise of the internet, and the thing I was remind myself of my freshman room in college was born a homosexual male and was dedicated to the age of 33, so I tried

“to always keep in mind that a lot of my success is my fault.”

So first 40 years of my life, I would describe my upbringing as something that overcame, and I realized that I was more blessed than probably 99% of the public, but fairly unremarkable upbringing. Yeah, it's really interesting. We have something in common, which is we both graduated with 2.27 GPAs from under like, you know,

exact GPA, where did you go to school? Where did you go to school? I went to New Jersey Institute of Technology, and so it was a engineering school, and, you know, I was too immature to do well in college at the time.

I was always very smart, but just not book smart, but it still was a great experience,

and you say the same, that college really set you off to be successful, and had you not went to college, you wouldn't have gotten this social, you know, experience that you needed, and same thing with me, so I'd love to hear about how college was beneficial for you, and what do you think are the key factors of young people's success right now? Yeah, I was transformative for me, and the way things have changed since I was a kid,

my mom was really excited at, and the third grade I got sent to fifth grade for math and English. But the thing is, men don't mature as quickly as women, and I went to UCLA when I was 17, and I was just too immature to handle it. I abused alcohol, I ended up in the emergency room once,

best things that decisions I've ever made, because it shrunk at 30,000 person community down to

something manageable for me, and I was around 22 year old men, and I remember getting a big brother

“and him saying to me, you know, you need to stop smoking so much pod, and take your studies more,”

you know, more seriously, I needed that. I did had no male role models in my life, so I think greatness is in the agency of others, so it was a chance for me to make connections with people. I did learn a little bit, not a lot, but it was raised for me, it was just kind of marination, it was a chance to develop social, you know, social in kind of life skills. I still think college is a great plan B, I think it gets a lot of disparagement, because people are looking

for excuses to make themselves feel better, because it's become so unattainable, because it's so expensive or so exclusionary. So I actually think we need to dramatically expand freshman seats. It's not for everybody, but it's for a lot of people. Also, I think we need to dramatically expand the way we think about college, and include one in two year certifications and things like specialty construction or health tech or cybersecurity. But also, Hala, I don't know, I mean,

I go on UCLA, I played sports, it was just, it was just a great time, and I learned a lot

about myself, I felt love for the first time, got my heart broken for the first time, played sports,

it was just a wonderful way to kind of develop your formative year. So I have very fond memories of college, and while I acknowledge it's not for everybody, I do think that we need to do a better job of making it more accessible for more people, because I do think a lot of people

“benefit from a college experience. I think it's a wonderful experience, and had I not had it,”

I'm a talented person. I work very hard. I think I'd make a good living selling cars or copiers, but I wouldn't have, wouldn't have been able to register the type of success and influence and economic security without the certification and experience that's offered by colleges. Yeah, and I'd love to learn more about that, because I know that you've done some research or

your familiar with some data about how it's almost a requirement to have the pedigree and to

have a college degree in order to attain that 1% level of success of some of us who are listening to a show like this are wanting to achieve. Yeah, we'd describe it as certification. We're in a certification economy, and that is about 50 years ago, 1 in 4 jobs or credit college degree, and now it's 3 in 4. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a traditional BA, but a certification of different, you know, a classary driver's license or a scuba,

instructor certification, or, you know, whatever it might be, the opportunity to stand out in a LinkedIn economy that says I'm different, I have skills, you know, CFA, CPA, all of these things, you know, a professional, a few else. Some sort of certification, a degree in nursing,

“are just so important in terms of developing currency. And I think your, I think the first piece of”

advice I give to the people on a very basic level economically is get to a city and get certified. Two thirds of economic growth over the next 50 years is going to take place in 20 super cities. If you play tennis, you know that when you play with someone better than you, your game naturally rises. And when you're in a city, you're playing tennis against the best in the world. And it's competitive and it's difficult and it's expensive, but your game gets stronger.

In addition, you want to get some sort of certification. It doesn't have to be a traditional four year BRBA degree, liberal arts degree. But you need something that when people see your profile on LinkedIn, they go, okay, this person has specific skills. And it all kind of bubbles up to I think your primary mission in your 20s is not to follow your passion. I think that's terrible advice. I think it's to find your talent. And that is figure out what you're good at. And then

really invest a lot of money in becoming great at that thing. And if you're great at something, the accoutrements have been great. Money come, rotary, relevance, influence, pride will make you passionate about whatever it is. So that's your job. I think coming out of school is figure out what you're good at and trying to become great at it. Yeah, I think that's really smart advice because a lot of people go try to find follow their passion, but they're not necessarily good at it.

So I recently had Alex Hermosian, he's a really smart guy. And he said something that I thought that you may find interesting. He was talking about focus. And he was saying how a lot of young people right now, they're not spending enough time on one thing. They're, you know, not getting the success right away. They're not getting progress right away. And they're kind of dropping it and moving on to the next shining object. And so I'd love to hear your perspective about

the importance of focusing on a goal once you've sort of set out for that thing. Well, metrics are important whether it's working out or whether it's forcing yourself to get out of the house a certain number of days a week to try and make more connections, whether it's saving a certain

I think it's important to have a few metrics. I think it's also to figure out kind of a

“reverse engineer like where do I think a decent exercise say where do I want to be in five years?”

Well, I want to have a graduate degree, right? Well, I want to have $100,000 in savings. Well, I want to be living in a major city. Whatever it might be. And then reverse engineer the likely steps and skills that you're going to need to get to that point and just kind of work your way backwards. And greatness is sort of like, how do you even elephant? It's one bite at a time. And then trying reverse engineer to bring it down granular like, what do I need to get done this week? If I'm going to

have a graduate degree in five years, what do I need to get done this week? Okay, I need to get applications for undergraduate schools. I'm going to save $100,000 by the end five years. I need to save approximately, I don't know, $14,000 a year assuming a certain interest rate. That means this month I need to save $1,200. Well, I can't, but I can save $600. Well, what that mean in terms of my spending this week? But basically come up with a big goal and then try and reverse engineer it into bite size bites that are

doable. Because I just think like I said, small things that up to very big things very fast,

compound interest and sort of the most powerful force in the universe, supposedly Einstein said,

I said it, although he didn't know someone else. But when you're a year age, Hala, my general thought was I'm not going to save money because I'm such a ball or some at some point I'm going to make

“tens of millions of dollars. But time goes really fast. And I think if I could give you a magic box,”

and you could put 10 grand in that box and get 100 grand back, how much would you put into that box? And that's just probably a lot. You might even sacrifice or trade off some short-term things. Well, that box is just time. And it was yesterday when I was year age and I woke up in a my age and I wish I'd been more disciplined. You know, I got lucky later in life professionally, but I took a lot of risks. I could have ended up in a bad spot. And your insurance policy is just

saving a certain amount of money. The algebra wealth is pretty straightforward. Find your talent

through focus. Live like a stoic or live below your means. Trying to always save money from a

very early age. It's really powerful. Diversify. Don't go all in on anything. It's dangerous. The market's bigger than anyone individual doesn't put all your money into dojo coin or or Google diversify. And then let time take over. The best reforming investors are actually dead people because they don't trade a lot. So, you know, you may want to go all in on your own business at some point. You may want to borrow money to improve yourself,

whether it's your college or some sort of certification. But generally those steps, you know, focus, stoicism, diversification and then letting time take over are sort of not sure fire, not sure far away to get rich, but best practices. So, you know, the good news is I know how to get your rich. The bad news is the answer slowly. But there is an algebra to it.

“That's really interesting stuff. And I'd like to go back to your story because I think that”

there was a very transformative point in your life. So, when you were 26 years old, I believe you were 26 years old. Your mom got terminally ill with cancer. And at that moment in your life, you made a decision that really impacted what we were just talking about focus, your goals, and what you really wanted in life thereafter. So, I'd love to hear about that moment in your life and the decisions that you made as a result of it. Yeah, I was kind of a fuck up until that

point. I had some potential. I was smart. Or, you know, I had some natural gifts academically, but that I didn't really apply myself. I was a laser. I was just talking about classic underachiever. I don't think I was a very high character person. I didn't think much about other people. And it was just me and my mom and my mom got very sick. And I remember coming home. I remember the weekend. She was just charged from the hospital early after surgery and massive

chemo. And I just didn't know what to do. And she was very sick. And I, you know, like, do I get a nurse, do I get a hospital, a hospital, a hospital attacker? And I remember thinking it sounds very cross. I remember thinking, I just wish I had more money. I can't take care of my mom. And there's certain instincts to take over. I think with any child, especially the only child and especially the only child who's a male who's supposed to, you know, all these instincts bubble up that I'm

was failing as a man. And I was failing as a son. And I decided there and then that I didn't decide to be rich. I don't think you make that decision. There's a lot of luck that comes along with it. But I decided that I was going to get my act together because I wanted to take care of my mom. And that's really when I, I just started getting very focused. And I worked very hard from that point. I got very, very serious about work and trying to establish economic security. And I feel as

if there's always kind of two key moments around transitioning from being coming a child to a grown-up.

And I would describe myself at the age of 26. It's kind of a man child. I just focused on partying and trying to figure experiences and trying to have, you know, date more and more

more and never really stated my appetite and didn't really have kind of what I call long-term

satisfaction on anything. And then my mom got very sick. And that was very eye-opening for me.

“So I feel like I grew up there. And then the next place you grew up, I think, is when you have a kid.”

And that sort of, you know, so birth and death are kind of the seminal moments in your life. And also the lesson I would offer to young people is that kind of zero to 25 is really happy. There's a lot of studies on happiness and happiness in terms of, uh, long-to-tutantly looks like a smile. And that is zero to 25 is Star Wars, Beer, College Football and Games. It's just awesome. 25 to 45 is what I call the "shit gets real" time in your life.

You find out that you're not going to have a fragrance named after you or you're not going to be senator. You find out the work is hard. You have some financial stress. Maybe you have kids which is very stressful. Someone you love and loves you immensely gets sick and dies. And it's just, it's really a punch in the gut. You're just not ready. No one, I don't think anyone can prepare you for that. Now, relationships are stressful. We're a place as stressful. And then something happens,

wonderful at 45. And you're under if you're soulful. And that is, you start to find joy and

“weird things. I remember, I don't know if your parents are ever like this, but I remember my mom”

like ordering a salad and a salad would come and she grabbed my hand and say, "Look at this salad. Look how beautiful this is." I remember thinking, "What is she talking about?" But now I can relate to that because I take my dogs for a walk, I'm in London right now, in Hyde Park, and they have this. I'm not even into art and they had a freeze festival and they had all this outdoor sculpture. I'm not into any of this stuff, but I couldn't help but stop and just marvel at it.

I'm not sure I would have stopped to smell the statues, if you will, 20 years ago. So what I tell young people who are struggling with the fact that their life isn't living up to their Instagram feed or maybe with their parents or their university told them what happened by the time they were 30, that is life that you're going through what everyone goes through and to keep on keeping on, that one foot in front of the other, that happiness waits for you. But there's just not getting around

it. Some people sooner than others. Life hits you pretty hard, pretty fast when you hit your 20s. And I can't say it's easy, but what I can tell you is everyone goes through that. And for me, the places I grew up were around losing my mom or when she was really sick and wanting to

take care of her and then realizing it wasn't all about me when I had my first kid.

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is my go-to. HUEL is more than just ready-to-drinks. I had my entrepreneurship peer group over, and everybody was like kids in a candy store trying out everything. Daily greens, a light sparkling green drink with 42 vitamins, and superfoods, energy plus their caffeinated drink, and the complete nutrition bar. All five products come in the HUEL Discovery Bundle,

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and see what works for you. Join me today with this limited time offer and get $50 in savings with the Discovery Bundle from HUEL today with my exclusive offer of 15% off online with my code, @[email protected]/YAP15. HUEL.com/YAP15. HUEL.com/Yap15. New customers only. Thank you to HUEL for partnering and supporting our show. I find this really fascinating that you're talking about this. I had a conversation with Arthur Brooks a couple months ago, and he talks about this concept

of fluid intelligence versus crystallized intelligence. And when you're in your 20s and your 30s, you've got all this fluid intelligence, you're able to problem solve your innovative, your crushing it at work. And once you reach, like, your mid 40s, your 50s, that's when you have crystallized intelligence, and a lot of people fail because they're trying to chase that fluid intelligence that they had in their 20s and their 30s, and they can't compete with, you know,

“the younger generation. And really what they need to do is turn into a coach or teacher and start”

teaching the younger generation if they want to, you know, have that second phase of happiness

or success in their life. And a lot of people miss that. And so it's just one of the lessons that I'm really starting to unfold on this podcast is like, you've got to put in the work when you're in your 20s and 30s because you'll be, you know, way better off doing it now than waiting until you're 40 and 50 because it's much harder later on to attain that level of success. If your goal is monetary success and being, you know, very financially well off.

Yeah, I like where we're siblings from another mother here that, and let's start with, it's not necessarily the right way, but it's, I would call it a capitalist way. And that is, I believe in America becomes more like itself every day. And that is, it's a loving generous place if you have money. It's a repatious violin place if you don't have money. So, you know, you were born or you're living in capitalist society, money is important. And wealthy people don't

talk a lot about money. I almost think it's sort of unfair because I think they want to hide. They want to pretend that they're just such geniuses that they don't think about money.

“That's like saying Roger Federer doesn't think about tennis. If you want to be good at money,”

you need to think about it a lot. And I'm not saying being obsessed with it because there's a dignity to living below your means, moving to a low cost area, kind of working to live, not living to work. But if you are ambitious as I imagine majority of the people listening to this podcast, get rid of their dispel the myth of balance. I had almost no balance when I was your age.

I worked pretty much all the time. Young people will always find time to drink and to mate.

Those instincts are so powerful that you'll find opportunities. But in terms of, I had no hobbies. I didn't, you know, I didn't do it from kind of the age of 25 to 45. I don't remember much else but working. And unless you're smart enough to inherit money, you're going to have to work your ass off. It's a competitive marketplace out there. And I really don't know anybody who's been very successful economically that hasn't spent the better part of 20 years doing pretty much nothing

but working. And it comes at a cost. I always say it cost me my marriage, it cost me my hair, and it was worth it. And that sounds very crass. But the reason I can take my boys to World Cup, kick off early from work and take my dogs, you know, to the park. I'm in great shape for a guy in my age. The reason I have so much balance now is because I had almost none when I was your age. And it all goes back to this notion that you can't have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

And what you want to do is you want to, in my opinion, burn a lot of fuel when you're young, because you don't have to usually have dogs. You don't have spouses, you don't have kids. You have the energy. You're learning a lot. I came out of UCLA again kind of unremarkable. And somehow I got a job at Morgan Stanley and fixed income. In my peers in the analyst class,

I was going to go to work. And I was going to stay until Wednesday night. I would work through the night.

I'd work 36 hours straight. And it kind of demonstrated it told everybody I came to play. I was capable of doing it. I was physically very fit. I was mentally pretty strong. And I didn't have dogs or kids or a spouse waiting for me at home. I was leaving with my mom. I had nothing going on. So the time, you know, I think of a kind of a aviation reference or a rocket reference,

“you need to get to outer space. And the atmosphere is very thick when you're just starting.”

You need a focus. You need to guide yourself on a launchpad. And then you need to burn a lot of fuel. And if you can get some success, if you can save some money, if you can get a reputation, if you can establish business relationships, if you get some credibility in the marketplace, when you do punch through, out of the inner orbit, into the outer orbit, your efforts get rewarded more. Like I have momentum now. So I can cover much more ground with less fuel than most young people can't

because I have contacts, a reputation existing business relationships, etc. But you got to burn that

fuel when you're young. And the other thing I would tell you is time goes really fast. So I'm always

about, you know, head down, get on it. It sounds very boomer and I want to acknowledge again. It's not the right way. It's just my way. But I'm glad I made this sort of sacrifice this when I was younger because it goes really fast. And I get to really enjoy myself now. And

“and so give up the myth of balance. I think it's a myth. Yeah, I totally agree there. I mean,”

I have a similar story in terms that I feel like I was sort of a late bloomer too. And I hustled like crazy in terms of my work ethic. I know for five years ago, I started this podcast. And now I have a business, a social agency, a podcast network, all this stuff. And all I did was work for five years straight in delay gratification and not go out with my friends. And I lost so many friends. And I broke up with my boyfriend of 10 years. And I didn't get married. And all these things

that you're supposed to kind of do. But I don't regret it at all because I've achieved this level of success that I feel like how did I not done that? There's no way I would have been where I am today. And now I'm actually on the younger side of everybody else who I'm competing with because I focused so hard for a period of time. And all I did was have this singular goal of learning everything about what I need to learn about about social and podcast and whatever. And of course, I had

other experiences that helped me before. But I have a lot of guests on the show that disagree with this point of sacrificing your relationships. For example, to focus on wealth and success. I had Daniel Pink on the show. And he said that the number one reason for regret is this thing called connection regret. He studied over 16,000 people. And it's this regret of not staying connected to the important people in our lives. So I'd love to understand if you think there's any sort of decision

making framework that we should have in terms of, you know, how much do we really want this thing compared to our relationships or just your advice on, is it really impossible to manage all of that and have everything in your opinion? Everyone is going to know someone at least on Instagram that is good looking and great shape as a great relationship with their parents makes a shit ton of money

“and as a food blog and donates time at the ASPCA. Assume you are not that person. You have to”

pick your punches. I think as a young person you want to be very focused on your career. I think in terms of relationships, I'm familiar with Daniel Pink's work and Adam Alter's done a lot of work around regrets on your deathbed if you will. And a lot of it comes down to not staying in touch with people, not living the life that you wanted to live, being who you are, doing things for other people, or trying to please other people. The number one regret is people which they'd been less hard on

themselves. They wish they'd been more forgiving of their failures. But anyways, I do think that when you're young, you can get just as you can make small investments or save a small amount of money when you're young and it adds up to big, big amounts from your older. I think small investments from relationships and you're young, small consistent investments pay off. So I think that things you want to

stay focused on are work first and foremost. Number two is fitness, mental and physical strength.

And that is run long distances and lift heavy weights in your mind and in the gym. I think you get that time back. I think if you work out 30 minutes a day, you're going to be able to, you know, you're going to be, you get that time back every day. You're just more energetic. You feel better. You have more opportunities. You're able to work harder. You have a broader selection set of mates. You feel better about yourself. You're kinder, more confident. I do think, though, you can

invest in relationships early and often, quick text messages to people, having the confidence

trying to really push the limits of your comfort zones, or putting yourself in a creating serendipity. You know, you know, I met the mother of my children at the Port de Raleigh Hotel, because I walked in and said, "I am going to go talk to this woman." I said, "Before I leave, I'm going to go and speak to her." And my son's mental name is Raleigh. So there's a balance.

“I think those three things work relationships and fitness are kind of the only things you should be”

focusing on. But I think you can get a lot of traction as a young person. Young people are getting invited to a lot of stuff. They're very social. Quite frankly, they're very attractive. So you're going to have more opportunities as a young person. There's more third spaces with a lot of other people, whether it's Coachella or the gym. It's just packed with a lot of young people. You want to take advantage in trying and making investments in that as often as feasible.

And what I find generally speaking is that young people are really good at scaling socially, that they figure out those opportunities. And also being aggressive, talking to strangers, being open to stuff, because it's really important. Who you end up with, specifically, who you

have kids with, is probably the most important decision you'll make in your 20s and 30s. It's not

where you go to work. It's not where you live. A good partner will help you aggregate success and wealth, a bad partner, you know, just kind of screw up everything. So what you want to do is you want to put yourself in a position to have as many opportunities as possible. So I do think it's a balance. Over time, there's a lot of research that shows that happiness is a function of how many deep and meaningful relationships you have. But once you have those relationships,

you want to ideally start out the economic anxiety of which there's a lot in America,

“a few aren't secure. So I think you want, again, going back to our original notion. I think work”

requires a lot of energy. But just as you make small investments every month, small investment every day, reach out to somebody. You want to grab lunch this weekend at a quick text message. I thought you did so well in that meeting. I'm so impressed with you. Talking to a stranger that you might have some interest in romantically. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. We've kind of conflated this. We're all our lawyers are supposed to meet at the studios of MSNBC and decide

if we're interested in each other. Things have gotten so weird around mating and human sexuality. It's okay to express interest in somebody. And if you don't know the difference between expressing interest in harassing someone, you have bigger problems. But I worry people your age aren't making friends. They are, you know, connecting romantically. They aren't finding mentors. We're all, none of us are going to a few of us are going to work anymore. We're definitely not going to

“the mall. None of us are going to the movies anymore. So where do young people find those third spaces?”

So work relationships and fitness is kind of my, if you will, my triangle or my pyramid. Yeah, I think that's excellent advice. And I want to spend a big chunk of time talking about young men and, and marriage and mating and equality and all that stuff because I feel like it's

so interesting. But first, let's kick off with some stuff in your book address. You talk about

the American dream in your book. And I think there's lots of like ties into what we're talking about right now. And so back in the day, it used to be that you work hard and, you know, you could ultimately do better than your parents. But kids are age and young people. I shouldn't say, are age, but young people out there right now, they're not doing better than their parents, where people in our 30s are not doing as well as their parents were when they were

30 or 40. Can you talk to us about why? So sure. So first off, if you were born in 1941, there was a 93% chance you were going to do better than your parents. So unless you got some sort of physical or emotional, you know, disability, you were going to do better. Now it's 49%. So for the

first time in the history of America, a 30-year-old man or woman isn't doing as well as his or her

parents were at 30. That creates tremendous shame, anxiety and rage. Because the ultimate compact population else with its society is that if I play with the roles in work card, my kids will do better than me. And now you have over half of people under the age of 30, not living with a friend a romantic partner, the living at home. So you have constant reminders that you're not doing that well called mom and dad. And this creates anxiety and rage and shame for both the parents

and the kid. And I think a lot of our dissatisfaction and polarization in our country right now stems directly from that. I think it is a concerted effort that has taken place deliberately. The entrenched incumbents will claim that it's these big impact of these uncontrollable, big, intractable forces, polarization or globalization or network effects. I think it's been a concerted decision by people, a bit older than me, to transfer wealth from young people to old people.

People under the age of 40 used to control 19% of the nation's GDP. They're wealth amounted to 19% and the last 40 years is come from 19 to nine. Person over the age of 70 is now 72% wealthier than

wealthy than they were 40 years ago. Anything? Well, what's happened? Is the economy slow down? No. Productivity continues to rip upward into the right. This weird thing happened in 1971.

Where basically wages and productivity, follow each other like two snakes intertwined.

The nation became more productive. Wages went up. Nation got a lot more productive. Wages went way up. And then in 1971 something happened and that was wages flatlined. And that is we decided that the majority of the spoils of increases in productivity. And now we produce more in a month than we did in an entire year in the 50s would go to shareholders. And there's some benefits to that. The markets go up. It makes it more attractive to

started business. We have the best capital markets in the world. But the wage earners are the middle class or the young who get the majority of their income through current income started falling behind. So you think, well, okay, why did that happen? It happened because we decided to make it happen. And that is the two largest tax breaks in American society. Our mortgage interest and capital gains. Who owns stocks and homes? People my age. Who rents and makes their money through current

income? People your age. So while air each year, I likely have more income than you because it comes in the form of capital gains, dividends, selling stocks, I pay a lower tax rate than you do. That makes no sense. So and then if you look back on what houses happened, our leadership, our elected representatives are the oldest in the world. And every year they get older because they have figured out a way to create and come and see where 95% of the time the

income is reelected. So we have a speaker of the house that is 81, a sentiment naughty leader that is 82, a sentiment majority leader that is 72 and a president that if he's reelected, we'll leave the west lawn for the last time and marine one at the age of 86. And his competitor will be in obese, obese 82 year old if he gets reelected and leaves for the last time. And then the first two states that dictate the presidential race are Iowa and Maine to the oldest states in the unions.

So what do you have? You end up with programs like social security and people that's a third rail.

I can never run for office because I've said I don't think social security is executed well.

Why are we? When I say we, why are you in your cohorts? Working cohorts and I'm still one of them.

“Under the age of 50, why are you transferring a trillion and a half dollars of wealth every year?”

To the wealthiest cohort in the history of the planet, U.S. seniors. Shouldn't it be the other way around? So why the cohort that has killed it in his wealthier gets a trillion and a half dollars from young people in the form of social security? I'm not saying we should do away with it. It's no reason why I should ever get social security. There's no reason why dad should be getting social security. And people say, well, it's a pension. I put money in. The average social security recipient will take

out two to three times what they put in. It's called social security tax. Not social security pension fund. Meaning that a tax goes into the kitty. So it's at a might help people. Other people benefit the country and you might not benefit directly from it. So everything we've done, I would argue over the last 50 years has been to execute a transfer of wealth from young people to old people. And as a result, we end up with a breaking of the most basic of social compacts.

“And we end up with rage and shame. And I think we can fix it. We need to bring down the cost of”

education. Kids can no longer access the middle, you know, the American dream is easily housing a skyrocketed because we made taxes lower. So money went into the market. If you already on a home, it's great. But what if you're trying to buy a home? It's gotten so incredibly snowed. What do you trying to get a degree? So I think we have we can, the bad news is we have transferred all this wealth from young to old people. The good news is these are problems of our own making and we can

unmake them. But we have to revert to where past generations were and that is willing to make sacrifices to invest in the health of younger generations. In some, you know, they talk about the greatest generation. Baby boomers are by far the greatest generation. It seems like everything we do is such that we can upgrade, upgrade Nana and pop-up from Carnival Cruises to Crystal Cruises. It needs to stop. We need to start investing in young people. Hey, Yapam. If something unexpected

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knock-on effects because who it's really hurt as young men. And that is a lot of the jobs that young men used to have as on-ramps in the middle class were generally industries that over-index male, manufacturing, front-line work. Those jobs have been outsourced overseas. In addition, once we level the playing field academically, women just blew by men. Women are more mature than more discipline, they're better delangratification. And over the next five years, we're going to have

two women graduate from college from every one man. Now, you think, well, fine, women deserve it, it's time, it's there time. There's a lot of knock-on effects here though, so we don't like to talk about this on the left, but essentially women made socioeconomically horizontally and up, men horizontally and down, or put another way a woman with a college degree is an interested in marrying a man without a college degree. Marriage has become a luxury item. If you're a man

and you're in the upper quintile, there's a 75% chance to get married. If you're in the lowest quintile, it's a 25% chance you're going to get married. So you have a lot of loneliness on both on both ends. And you have this mating inequality where if Tinder were a country, it would be like men a Swayla. And that is, if you have 50 men and 50 women on 20, Tinder, 42 of the women will show all of their attention to just eight men, leaving 42 men fighting over eight women. Because women

have a much finer filter around mating. Guys see the guys see a picture on Tinder go, "Oh, she's cute, swipe right." Women have much finer criteria. And when they can apply it to everybody, because everybody is available online or at least theoretically, they become, they get a chance to implement their filter. Whereas before we had these geographic mating ring fences, you went to temple every Friday. There were eight single women and eight single men and you kind of

all slowly, but surely, you know, paired off and figured it out. Now, the top 10% of attracted miss the males engage in what I call Porsche polygamy. And that is they get 80 to 90% of the interest, which doesn't lead to long-term relationships in quite frankly bad behavior. 50 to 90 in terms of attractiveness for men do okay or the same. But the bottom half of men in terms of attractiveness

to be prone to misogynistic content. They think it's a woman's fault. They're more likely

“to believe in conspiracy theory. They're less likely to believe in climate change. In generally”

speaking, online dating has just made it a little bit shittier for all women. So what we have is an entire cohort of what I call emotionally and economically unviable men. And so women are leveling up and it's great, but they're not interested in the men or societies producing right now. And the most violent, unstable societies in the world all have too many of the same thing. And that is a broke and lonely young man. And we are producing too many of them. So leveling up and making

a massive investment in young people, vocational programming, more seats, freshmen, seats and universities, tax and fiscal policy that restore some of that income and wealth, the younger generations. That will level up all young people, but it'll have a disproportionately powerful effect on men who have taken the brunt of some of these structural changes over the last 40 years. I am like loving this topic. And I have a really funny story to share that I think correlates

with a lot of your data and research. So I have a social media client. His name is Marshall Goldsmith. He's a legendary executive coach, best-selling author. I managed his social media.

And so whenever he meets with me and my business partner Kate, he's always telling us,

like, I don't understand how your girls aren't married. He's like, and he's just like, all the young men today, they're just terrible. You guys have to marry down. My daughter had to marry down. If you guys want to get married, you've got to think about

“marrying down. And he's like the only way you guys are going to get married is if you marry down,”

which I like, we laugh. We're both in happier relationships, but we laugh at him because they're like, okay, Marshall, but it actually correlates with what you're saying. So I'd love to understand, you know, what is marriage rates like in this country? Are people getting married less? And how does that impact the economy and impact society overall? Well, depends on the cohort. Well, through people kind of middle-income to upper income, their marriage rates are holding

mostly strong people having kids later in life, or having fewer kids. So we could run into a birth-threath, which is bad for the economy, fewer people to support those social career payments. And another myth is overpopulation. It's time we just stop talking about it. And that is, when you have a kid, that kid, you're sure that kid will take resources, maybe produce carbon, maybe eat meat, or other crimes against humanity. But most likely that person, that kid, that

baby girl or baby boy, is going to come up with wonderful innovation that makes it all the better place. You need more people. And this notion of overpopulation, there's certain parts of the earth that are overpopulated, but just get on a plane from New York to San Francisco, look down 100 times, 95 times, there's nothing. There's literally nothing. And so we want to encourage economically and emotionally

viable people to have kids. Kids are a wonderful thing. I would have never thought it. I had no

interested in kids, but I really, really enjoyed it. The marriage rates, flat to declining across society as a whole, but it really gets really falling off a cliff for people who are middle or lower income or on the bottom, the bottom median. And I never thought I would have said this. I never

“wanted to be married. I don't think you have to be married to be happy. But generally speaking,”

people are happier when they're in some sort of committed, monogamous relationship. And at the end of a life, you're talking about Stephen Pink, generally speaking, the things they remember the most are family. They don't want to be around awesome people or famous celebrities when they go, they want to be around loved ones who, you know, they love immensely and who love them immensely. So the issue I see is I see a lot of young men who are becoming economically and emotionally

unviable. They get excluded socially. They don't find a job. They don't make money. They don't get out. They don't develop social skills. They don't develop professional skills. And once they hit a certain point, they almost become kind of unviable. And and also a romantic relationship is a great guardrail. You know, stop getting high every night. Get in shape. You know, we make each other better. Spouses, boyfriends, girlfriends, friends, they motivate each other. They're

competitive. And to compete isn't as a Greek term that means to strive together to make each other better when the Olympic athletes were training. They found what they trained together. They made each other faster. And mates, friends, friends, girlfriends, boyfriends, spouses, pair, you know, they're great guardrails. And when you isolate young men who have that, again, that immature prefrontal cortex. And then they can find a reasonable facsimile of dope that you used to get through

playing sports or from starting a business or from making money or from kissing someone for the first

time. When you can get a reasonable facsimile of that dope a hit on your phone or on your computer,

So, you know, one of the things I tell young men, I coach a lot of young men, you have to

get out of the house every day. You have to force yourself to meet strangers. You got to start making money. I don't care if you think it's below you. I don't think you know, work at a CVS, turn on door to ask, turn on whatever it is. Get a taste for flesh, start making money,

“money is a wonderful thing. And the key to making more money is to make some money. Go up to a”

stranger, you know, join a church group, a softball league, a writing group, junior college class, whatever it is, and force yourself to approach strangers to an expressive an interest in conversing with them, an interest in being their friend, and maybe who knows, even an interest in a romantic relationship. There's nothing wrong with that. I do think men get a lot of mixed

signals that approaching anybody is considered like dangerous, if you will. And I think some of

the wonderful thing about men is that they're they're more aggressive, but aggressive doesn't have to mean anything resembling any sort of physical violence. It can mean initiating conversation, and the people I get the most feedback from, a feminist don't like what I say or a lot of feminist don't like what I say, although they're coming around to its famous feminist of now acknowledges a real problem taking place with the younger men. Young men sometimes resent it because they feel as if

I'm calling them in cells and they've been stereotypes like, just because I'm an introvert, it doesn't mean I can't have value to society. That's fine, there's some fairness. By far the cohort that is most supportive hands down are mothers. You say, my daughter's killing it, she's at pan, my other daughter's working in PR in Chicago and my sons in the basement playing video games and vaping. We have we are losing an entire generation of men and I think a lot of it

comes down to a need to redefine masculinity. So it's that men feel comfortable embracing their masculinity and also recognize the masculinity isn't it just purely the demand of people born as males that masculinity and femininity are both wonderful attributes that can be shared by men women but to re-embrace and celebrate what I call a modern or mature form of masculinity. But I think that your generation is suffering from a crisis of loneliness, a lack of connection

to each other in a lack of connection to the country and those Japanese soldiers who went into the hills at the end of World War II accomplish nothing. Nothing great is accomplished alone. If you're spending a lot of time alone, you're not going to accomplish much. I don't care.

“Yeah, you need to be around other people. You need to find new relationships. That is”

even more than anything more than economics, more than certification. The thing I would wish for people in their 20s and 30s is that they have more opportunities to establish more relationships. I think it's and I just came off this rip riff around working all the time. You can establish a lot of deep relationships at work. I didn't have a lot of romantic relationships in my 20s. I was very immature. I was very insecure. But I had great relationships at work. I had great friendships. You know,

he came very involved in my mom's well-being. So I always say that, you know, kind of love is out there.

What's difficult for women is that they're so unfairly judged through the lens of romantic relationship. Their success or lack, they're out through one type of relationship. And you can't force that. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. But you should always think, okay, how do I have really wonderful productive relationships to make little investments every day? And some of that is forcing yourself into uncomfortable spots. Initiating conversation with someone

in the what-minded Starbucks, asking someone a coffee out at work, expressing admiration for someone and trying to establish a friendship. And because we spent so much time alone in the last two and half years, I mean, kind of, I'd rather stay home and watch Netflix or young men think I'd rather stay home

“and play video games or trade on Robinhood or watch porn. Now, you need to get out there.”

You need to get out there. Yeah. I love that you had this conversation with us because most of my listeners surprisingly are male. I have like an 80% male audience who are these young men that you're talking about. Yeah. And so I'm really happy that you had this conversation and for the women who might be listening, I feel like we all feel this, right? We see other women doing really well. We probably have a cousin or a brother or somebody who's struggling. What can we do as women,

whether it's in terms of how we look for a partner and our perspective on that or, you know, what should we be doing? Because obviously, I don't think we're going to get affirmative action taken away or anything like that. And I think women are going to continue to kind of thrive in the workplace. And the other thing I wanted to pick your brain about is the fact that leadership is still men, right, politicians are still men. So there's still a lot of work to do. And so I just love to hear

your thoughts on that. I know that was kind of great. I'll take that a reverse order. So there's been more the one thing all of our elected officials have in common is about 95 or 98% of them have college degrees. We've decided that kind of realistically is the logical criteria for who we want to

leadership and elected representatives. We've been graduating more women from college for 40 years in men. And you had only 28% of our elected officials. Our female, we can play voice and height with leadership qualities. So it's shown me a 410 women with a high pitch voice using incredibly smart and incredibly high work, hardworking and a low president of local school board. Show me a guy who's fairly smart, but tall and has a great voice. That guy's name is Senator.

So we need to educate early on what's required, what are the key components of being a good leader? And also how people modulate for that we just instinctively think of leadership as being

“powerful and we associate powerful with certain audio and visual sensations. So I think some of it,”

some of it is just education. The other thing is, I think we you asked me for advice on women, younger women and what I would say is, is that I don't want to say lower standards,

what I want to say is be open to the coffee or the second coffee. And that is, the problem with

online dating is it's very too dimensional. You see their looks and then you make an assumption around their wealth. And women have three criteria for mating or at least the research shows. Number three is kindness. Number two is intelligence. And number one is resources. And so it's natural that they will make a judgment and then they will make kind of a zero one, yes or no call. What I would suggest is pushing the limits of your comfort zone to give more people a chance.

And if the day goes okay, but not great, be open to a second date to see if it goes from okay to good and then maybe to great. Every long-term relationship I've had, I wouldn't have guessed at the beginning. It was going to become a long-term relationship. And we live in such an

economy with a so much fluidity of opportunity that we end up never really pursuing opportunities

to their, to their potential. It's like, well, that wasn't great. That wasn't magic. So I'm back on the apps or I'm just not interested or I'd rather stay at home and watch Netflix and work.

“I think that there needs to be a meeting of the minds. I think men need to get their act together”

emotionally and economically. I think we just need better men. And part of that is more men, my age need to take more of an interest in younger men and help men to them. I think we just need better younger men. And what I would ask here is that women think, okay, how can I be, how can I be more open to exploring stuff and see if it might lead somewhere wonderful? Because the wonderful thing about human sexuality is it involves smell, it involves vibe, it involves humor,

it involves seeing how that person behaves around their family. And I think a lot of people, especially women, will say, in the beginning, I didn't have that type of interest in this person. And it grew. They're their criteria are more subtle and more what I'd call long term. And we live in an economy in a society that discourages that type of long-term exploration.

Does that make any sense? I always get uncomfortable giving women advice because I don't feel

I can relate. No, it does make sense. I'm very aligned with a lot, like, you don't have to worry about that with me. Like, I'm aligned with so much of what you're saying. The last thing I want to talk about in terms of this and then we can kind of close out because I know that you have to go soon. So I had gotten into a relationship two years ago now. I'm in a happy new relationship. But I was

“with somebody for 10 years. And I remember that when I used to go out, I, you know,”

would get approached by men all the time. They would come up to me all the time. Now men, I would find that like younger men still have, like, you know, the 10, I look a lot younger than I am. And so younger men would still approach me. But people might age, men my age would never come up and talk to me when I was single. And I thought this was so strange because I had been out of the dating game for 10 years. And so I'd love to hear a perspective on, like, men actually getting the

confidence to approach people in person because I feel like people need to hear about this. Yeah, so I think men have got a lot of mixed signals here. There was an ad that Gillette ran, you know, Gillette, the best of man can get during the midst of the Me Too movement. The basically tried to redefine manhood. And there was this one scene that really rattled me. And that is a guy sees a really attractive woman. And he stands up to go a preacher and his friend

gets no answer. No, no, no, no, don't do that. Not cool. Not cool. And I thought that's where we are. Like men aren't supposed to approach strange women. And the people, I find the thing I don't like about telling men how to behave and to tone it their aggression down is that it's people who already have mates telling them to do that. It's like, where are we supposed to find? Where are people supposed to meet each other? And again, I'm making reductive comments here.

And I don't have the research on it. But I think women, especially women, younger women,

And I consistently hear from young women, no man ever approaches me. Because I think men have been given mixed signals. One, they lack confidence, because quite frankly, they're lack of confidence is common sense. They're not going to college. They don't have jobs. They're just not, they're not impressive young men. And they're failing. And they know that. And they're getting that cemented every day by their parents in the world, telling them, okay, you're, you're not

living up to the expectations we have of people. But also this notion that approaching a stranger or asking someone out, a third of relationships begin at work, what's the general viewpoint on sex at work? That it's almost borderline illegal. And if a man or a woman is in a very senior position, they should be very button for relationships at work. They can take that shit off campus. There's a lot of awesome things to being a senior level person in business. One of them should not

be leveraging your power to find romantic relationships. But I've had three weddings, my last company that I sold this all to. I've had three weddings in the last month where people had all to, including one wedding where they met it all to. That's wonderful. So it's okay to at work.

“You have to be very careful. You want to make sure, especially if you're senior to that person,”

not to abuse your power. But it's okay to express romantic interest. And I worry that we've been sending mixed signals to men. Men need to embrace their masculinity. But first we have to identify what is masculinity. I think if it is garnering the skills and strengths such that you can protect and advocate for others. And a lot of it is being, okay, a little bit more aggressive. I think that woman's interesting. I'm going to go talk to her. If she's not interested,

I will get that vibe almost right away. We will both part company. I will be polite and you know what? You're both going to be fine. You're both going to be fine. And that rejection or that ability to endure that rejection is a function of your success. The reason I am successful is I've

had businesses failed and it never destroyed my confidence. It denoted at the time, but it didn't

stop me from going out and starting another business. And the reason I've always been able to not always been most time been able to attract potential mates that are more interesting and much better looking than me is that I'm not afraid of rejection. If I'm standing in line somewhere and I'm attracted to someone, I'll start talking to them or when I was a younger man and I encourage younger men to do that. And if she's polite but not interested and you can pick it up, that's fine.

“You're going to be polite and you're both going to move on with your lives. So success is a function”

success professionally and romantically is a function of rejection. Specifically, you're willing us to endure it. And my advice to young women is that when like I said, just play things out a little longer and see where it goes. See where it goes. Yeah. Well, I feel like this has been such a great discussion. We covered a variety of topics. We didn't get through everything I wanted to, but I

feel like we covered a lot of ground. I always end this show with two last questions and here's

where you can say anything that you feel like is really important that you want to share with my audience. So what is one actionable piece of advice you can give my young and profitors so they can become more profiting tomorrow? What is one thing they can do today to become more profitable tomorrow? Look at your phone, look at the screen time, find 48 hours of waste of time, Robin Hood, TikTok, Twitter, streaming and reallocate that time into fitness and making more money.

Try and find eight hours in your phone, take four of it and put it into fitness and put four of it into either working more at your current job. I don't believe inside hustles. If you have a

“side hustle, it means your main hustle isn't working. The best way to economic security is to take”

the time you were going to spend on a side hustle and put it into your main hustle and make your

main hustle amazing and become great at it. But find, try and find eight hours out of your phone.

We spend way too much time in our phones. I've probably spent two hours a day on Twitter. I'm addicted, it's terrible. But find eight hours a week in your phone and put four reinvest four into fitness and four into money. Yeah and real quick, what is the power of exercise in your opinion? Like what is exercise data everyone? We're a physical species and there's a ton of research that shows. If you exercise three to four times a week or less likely to have a stroke, a heart attack,

you're more likely to be kind, much more likely to be a successful. The most common attribute of Fortune 500 CEOs isn't that they went to Ivy League schools. It's not even that they're wide or male. It's like 490 of them work out five times a week. You'll be kinder. You'll have a broader selection set of mates. I believe anybody year age should be able to walk into any room. And no, and this is a goal. And no, that if shit got real, you could kill and eat everybody or

it's not about being ripped. It's about being a stronger version of yourself. You'll be much more

“mentally healthy. It's how you're processing anxiety. It's how you process anger. It's key.”

And people, it keeps me a fat shaming because I talk a lot about exercise. I know some people who are very big and are very strong. And that's a wonderful thing. I do CrossFit. It's a huge contingent of lesbian firefighters and these women are so strong and so inspiring. And don't care about the traditional norms around aesthetic as indicated by this heteronormative fashion industrial

“complex and they are inspiring. That's what you want to move to. You want to be a stronger version”

of yourself. Lift heavy weights and run long distances in the gym and in your mind.

Yeah. I ask that question because I always tell everyone you have to work out. It's not something

you can skip. It's really important. And what is your secret to profiting in life? A recognition that a lot of my success is not my fault. I try to be grateful. I try to recognize

“that I'm hugely blessed. And I try and, you know, I just look at how, first 40 years of my life,”

I was the kid who overcame single mother growing up without a lot of money. And then as I got older, I realized that being born a wide heterosexual male in the 60s was hitting the lottery. My freshman year room in college was exactly the same as me, except God reached into his soil. I made him homosexual and he was dead of AIDS at 33. And neither of us had any choice over our sexuality. So every day I wake up and I realize that a lot of this is a function of being

in the right place and the right time. It makes me more grateful. It makes more appreciative. It makes me enjoy stuff more. And it makes me want to try and create more opportunity and work

at fortune for other people. That's really powerful. Scott Galloway, where can everybody learn

more about you and everything that you do? A holiday to resist is futile. I'm everywhere. I'm Prof Galloway on Twitter. I have a newsletter called No Mercy No Malice. My new book is called a Drift American 100 Charts. I have a YouTube show. I'm starting, I'm doing a show on the BBC called Tech Explorer. It's got Galloway. So to resist this futile, I'm everywhere.

Amazing. Congratulations on all your success. I love this conversation. Thanks for coming on.

Thank you, Hallick. Congrats on your success.