He Cheated. She Stayed. Scheana Shay on Motherhood, Betrayal, and the Choice to Stay.

Welcome back to After Bedtime, and I cannot believe I'm saying this, but today's guest.

“Today's guest is someone that honestly, Kristen, I have grown up with in real-time.”

Sheena Shay is sitting down with us for today's episode. Bravo fans, I know you're freaking out as much as we are, and if you don't know, Sheena Shay is an actress, host a New York Times bestselling author, and one of the original stars of Vanderpump Rules. And in today's episode, we are going deep. I mean, really deep.

Like things that Sheena has never shared out loud before about Vanderpump Rules, about the valley,

and about her experience of becoming a mom. A birth story that did not go as planned, struggling with severe postpartum OCD, and having to return back to work literally days after giving birth. And then maybe the most intense one of all, her husband's affair. We are getting into all of it. No filters, no holding back. This episode will make a laugh. It might make you cry a little bit, but I promise you one thing. It will leave you feeling so whole, so inspired,

and so ready to live your life for you. So, without further ado, let's get into it.

It's a beautiful, brutal truth about what it means to raise kids, and re-raise ourselves in the process.

Because parenting isn't just about sleep schedules and snack hacks, it's about healing, it's about breaking cycles. It's about becoming the kind of adult you want your kids to grow up to be. This is the place where we say the quiet parts out loud, and we're so glad that you're here. Sheena, welcome to After Betai! Thanks for having me. I am freaking out. I love you. I'm freaking out. I'm just going to be over here

a little bit in shock, a little bit star struck, and I'll get my thoughts together. I'm not

associated, so I'll take over. Deena's a bravo bitch, but not as religiously, like I watch everything.

I'm not like on the forums. My husband actually follows some of the forums, or like not in the gross way, but more like, you know, we want to keep up with what's actually happening, and what people buy because I'm not there. I just watch everything. Okay. I just watch it. Love that. Who's your husband's favorite housewife? Oh, he really likes Orange County, so he likes a Vicki. He loves a

“camera. You know, I mean, he loves a Lisa Van der Pomp. Oh, he's a horrible person. I think.”

I love him. I'm going to ask him after this. I probably all wrong. I was probably all wrong. Hello, everyone. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi guys, Deena. Deena's on her her cup of coffee. I know. Oh my gosh. Oh, it means it was not the coffee. Hi. I was like, I'm like, break the mic, break the mic, spill the coffee, Deena's mic, flat came on, coffee is spelled. It's just a normal day in a toddler mom's life.

You know what I mean? I didn't get on the dog. We're good. Yeah. I'm almost here. Moquies here and he didn't get bored on. Well, I do watch everything, but again, not like religiously, but I'm very excited that you're here today. We have so many questions for you all. Chris and I

“feel like you should kick us off because this is your dream girl. I mean, I'm like, I have 20”

ready to go. So hi. I regret mom. Thank you. Your mom to a beautiful, four-year-old girl. Yes, summer moon. We feel like we know you as a mom because we watched you kind of in that like early mom era. What was it like to be on TV on a reality show where you used to be about debatory and then it moved into, you became a mom and it moved into that era. What was that transition Mike? I don't feel it was really a transition of debatory. That was still very present. Yes. I love that.

But it was also after having about a year and a half off. So obviously during COVID, we weren't filming at all. And then I had her literally a week and a half before we started filming season nine. And I do wish you some more of that postpartum journey because I was going through so much at the time that I was expressing and it was unfortunate. You didn't see it because I feel like having an audience, especially of millennial women and moms, it would have been really beneficial. But for me,

world is starting to open back up. And I kind of just got back into it. But I will say, I'm very

glad that I ended up getting induced because my doctor was like, look, you've been off work for a while. I want you to have at least a week at home where you're able to just kind of figure this out before cameras are in your face. So get to 40 weeks if she's not coming out, then I'll induce you. So I'm like, okay, great. So 40 weeks one day, I get induced and then all of a sudden her heart rates dropping. This none of my, oh my god, she's not ready. I think I'm killing my baby. I'm terrified,

but it turned out I had pre-eclampsia, which I didn't have yesterday at my 40 week appointment. There were signs, but they didn't know that then advanced to help syndrome. And I'm like, had I not been induced. I could have died. My baby could have died. Like, we might not have survived. It was so crazy that that was literally the reason I got induced because I was, I think it's a rare or unpopular opinion, but I could have stayed pregnant for another three weeks easily. I was

so comfortable. I love being pregnant. She was safe in there. Once she came out, I'm like, what do I do? So I would not have gotten induced if it wasn't for we're starting filming again soon. And I need the baby out. So I have some time to figure this out. Whoa. I then get hospitalized for five extra days. Have all of three days home before cameras picked up. Oh my god,

yeah. First of all, I have chills all over. Just hearing that. Yeah. But are you saying that you

went back to work like bleeding? Yes. In a diaper. Oh, yeah, my baby's diaper. Like, it was not fun. That was the biggest transition was just feeling so not myself. I'm in clothes that are much bigger than I've ever worn. I'm still in a diaper. I just, I'm, I'm breastfeeding. I have my pump with me all of the time. I mean, it was a really crazy time that I feel like just was kind of brushed over

“and filled with themed parties and whatnot. So that's what I was going to say is as a viewer,”

I do remember watching. And I don't know that I knew you were that fresh of a mom. I didn't. But I remember watching because I remember seeing the trailers and being like, oh, their mom's now, like, yes, this is what I've been waiting for. We're going to watch like postpartum. We're going to watch how much drama happens during postpartum, by the way. I need you and Brock and I mean, although mother-in-laws and all of that. Yeah. And so I do remember, I remember watching

and being like, they're just at parties. Like, and I didn't, I wasn't like, oh, she's partying. I knew like, this is a job. So, but there, I didn't even really, I'm glad that you realized that because the audience didn't. That's crazy. Yeah. I remember being like, and not like, there's no way that I, any shape or form was like, oh, she's leaving her newborn at home or anything like that. I was more just like, why aren't we seeing what she's, this is supposed to be a reality show.

So like, she's clearly going along with like the script in the cast and the way that the show

has always been. But what a missed opportunity to instead bring the cameras into her space and what's

going on in her world. And I remember seeing you in like, bigger clothes and stuff like that, rather than being like, you're in a diaper, showering a diaper. Yeah, showering a diaper, actually. Showering a diaper. You know, like, you know, leaking. So I remember that was such a missed opportunity.

“Yeah. And I think they realized that. And that's why on the valley, you know, you really”

see me as a part of journey. And I'm so thankful that at least they got there, you know, they didn't do it with me, but they're doing it now. So I'm glad that it's at least evolved to that point. Oh, did you get film though? And then they just chose not to put that in? Wow. Yeah, the very first scene of season nine, Brock and I are standing in the kitchen for an hour. And this is the introduction to him and our relationships. So we're kind of like, back

pedaling talking about, you know, how we met and whatever and whatever organic way. But I remember sitting at our kitchen. We had like, barstools at our island. And I was sobbing. And I'm just like, I could have died last week. Like, this was literally like nine days ago that I had this baby. Wow. She was too young to be on camera because she had to be 15 days old to be on camera.

“So it was like, that's how new it was. But nobody saw that part. The scene opens up with me.”

It looked obviously like I had been crying. I'm sitting down in the living room eating. And we're talking about if I'm going to invite Lala on Katie to the Hobachi dinner for my birth day. Yeah. Because that was more important than me almost dying in childhood. Wow. I feel like no one really prepares you for the reality of feeding a baby. The emotions, the pressure, the opinion, the mental load of every single choice. And like most parents,

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by the way that they finally got there. Number two, do you think any of that had to do with what you were just describing? Like the sudden lowering her heart rate is going down. You're about to die.

Like all of this, do you think that ate it in this whole like, oh my god, we might die and I never

“expected this to happen. I was fine yesterday and today I'm not. I think it started even before”

that when I had the miscarriage because then when I got pregnant again with her, I was just terrified every day that something was going to happen. I did not feel her move until I was 22 weeks, five days. I'm more than halfway through my pregnancy and I've not felt my baby move once. I think I had gas around 16 or 17 weeks during acupuncture. I'm like, I think she kicked and she's like, I think that was cast. I'm not sure. It just lied to me. So it definitely started then. And then when I

did have her because I had the pre-eclampsia, they had to pump me with magnesium and they gave me a heads up that I would feel extremely flu-like. They didn't give me a heads up that my baby was going to come out limp and blue and they called them mag babies and that that was normal. So I finally push her out and she doesn't make a sound for almost a full minute and it was just like their

“counting 44 or 45 and I'm like, oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. So now I think I've just given birth”

to a silver and after having a miscarriage and I'm like, this is my fault because I induced she wasn't ready and it was just until I heard that cry. It was terrifying. And so I think it all started at the miscarriage but then just everything that happened leading up to having her. It was really scary and immediately the intrusive thoughts came in and I didn't understand and I was paranoid of cids and it was just like, I was the mom who watched the monitor and I had the

breathe wear strap on her and it only went until 24 months and so what did I do because I was a

then I was like okay she's two and a half I guess I could give her a blanket now. So I had to get

“rid of the breathe wear and I just accept that she knows how to breathe now. There's no bumpers. She's”

not going to suffocate it's okay but I mean it took a couple years and it took me opening up to my therapist being like, okay well this is a safe space right like hip or whatever like you can't tell anyone if you think I'm crazy. She's like I can't and I'm like okay I just want to know if any of your other clients have experienced this because like in my head every day when I'm like walking upstairs like I just seen myself falling down landing on my baby her jumping out of my arms and

I'm like I don't want to hurt her but then it wasn't just about summer I started having them about Brock when we were moving back up from San Diego he was driving his motorcycle and I was driving behind him and I just saw myself running him over not because I wanted to kill my husband or run him over but I'm like someone's gonna hit me and then I'm gonna hit him and then I'm gonna kill my husband and it's just like so many of those things that finally I was like okay this is now not just about

“my kid like why am I seeing these things about my husband and once I opened up to her she's like”

if you're in diagnosed with OCD I'm like no I have felt that I've had OCD my whole life but I've

never been diagnosed and she goes how are you with numbers? I was like oh well let me tell you at the time

I was very anal about my following on Instagram and Twitter and I only followed for 20 the stoner back in the day and I'm still kind of here and there but I loved that number I whatever reason so stupid it was just a number but if I followed someone new I would go and unfollow someone to the point where I would have people reach out like it did something happen like I'm like oh no and I blame my sister I'm like oh my sister runs my account she must have

thought it was inactive or didn't recognize the name I'm so sorry and then I'm like shit no we need unfollow someone else and then after my therapist had asked me this I had met and I talk about this in my book I had met these two girls who are still friends of mine from big brother and they were fans and we were at this premiere together and they're like oh my god we I don't even think we're following you and so I was like oh my god let me follow you back and I'm like

I'm at 422 I'm at 422 and so like all night I'm like I'm not going to go to the bathroom to unfollow someone I'm like it's okay she knew you can unfollow someone like later when you get home and then when I got home I looked at it and I'm like what's it matter what if it gets to 424 what if it gets to 500 I'm at almost a thousand now you guys and I didn't even go that was exposure therapy that I just did on my own and so had it not been for me opening up

finally I wouldn't have known I wouldn't have gotten the proper diagnosis from a psychiatrist and been able to do the exposure therapy work that started with numbers and then it was my therapist asked me on a scale of 1 to 10 what is your 10 biggest fear to do alone with your kid because I was afraid anything alone with her but I'm like I mean like Disneyland flying cross country like

that's insane like I could never yet when she was two and a half years old I took her to Disneyland

by myself my mom offered to come and I said no I need to do this on my own we've now done that several more times I just recently flew alone with her from New York the longest flight you can take in America and I did it by myself and I'm like I hadn't had a reason to fly alone with her I knew one day I would and I double booked I didn't have on my calendar we had a very important private school event for our number one school we want to go to so Brock got on the first flight back

flew back to make it to the event to represent for us and I flew back with her by myself and you were just fine my god I'm so proud of you that's it takes a lot of work and I'm really

“appreciate that you opened up about this because I think when you are in the middle of it as a mom”

it's confusing you're like what is happening and we don't often hear about this and then once you do I feel like point number two kicks in which is you feel embarrassed and you feel shame about it and you feel really alone like something is wrong with you so thank you for opening up I feel like it's very very important yeah someone who is newly post part of myself for months and right now I also do have those intrusive thoughts still once and while Chris and I were just talking

about it earlier today like the one about the banister and tossing the baby over you know like that one yeah and it it really will make you feel like what is wrong with me but it's so many of us who go through this and then at a certain point when you start to really tune in as this is nothing is wrong with me this is more of a signal that I should probably tune into and I get help is needed yeah and talking about it helps so much just I didn't know how many people in my family

and my close friend group once I started talking about it then my own mother she knew her whole

me too and it was like this I opening bonding moment for us where I wouldn't have had that with her had I not opened up about it and now I do work with the international OCD foundation and I am just such an advocate for talking about maternal mental health because I feel like it's getting talked about more but it's not enough and it definitely wasn't enough when I was post part of almost five years ago I think you actually put post part of OCD I don't want to call it on the mat because

it's a horrible horrible way to say it but you did you put it on the mat and then it's to the show

you know for finally getting there yeah to the show I just think we remember watching that moment

and because that was like fuck yeah like this is what we want to be watching and I had post part of anxiety which is similar but different right I was able to say you know but actually might have been post part of OCD is what some people say because it's the same where it's like I just knew my baby was gonna die I knew she was gonna die there was nothing I could do about it but I'm gonna obsess about it and make sure like if you don't go to sleep at like 759 like she's

gonna die like she will die in her sleep so stuff like all of those horrible things and when I watched you on the screen and you were so vulnerable and you were crying I was like oh my god this

“this picture perfect person because that's how I see you like she's so nice and she's”

played a bone gorgeous and she's like she's gonna be sheena I'm like oh okay all right like this is just something that people struggle yeah everyone can possibly struggle with something like this so I yeah it was a really big moment I think for TV in general yeah and I still got shit for it because by the time those episodes aired and we had filmed it because it wasn't shown on season nine it's like season 10 I think was when we talked about it but she's like a year and a half going on too

and people like you're not postpartum anymore and I'm like yo postpartum is not just the first six

months okay it can be a much longer period of time and also I was not diagnosed when I was newly postpartum I didn't open up to my therapist until my daughter was over a year old so now that I've realized this now I'm dealing with all of these things that some that have been there my whole life and now I understand you know what's wrong with me it's just you know and you're brain it's a chemical imbalance and it's I didn't know that there was a diagnosis for it and I'm just so thankful that now

you know we have this platform where we can talk about these sort of things because it makes so many people feel less alone and heard and seen and I've had hundreds of not thousands at this point

in the last few years of women reach out to me and say because of you now I've been diagnosed and

now I'm doing the work and I think about it too is that people now can know what to look out for yeah exactly there I was my child was 18 months old I went through 18 months of just like you where like I knew she was going to die and the other she was going to die this is the day okay this is the day she's going to die 18 months until I realized like you just when you're in it you're so in it and you have this fresh baby and you're just moving so fast right and it takes a like a lot

to be like and you're not sharing it with anyone okay I wasn't I wasn't like no not anyone I wasn't like hey so you know I just thought this is baby sleep I'm just like really gonna baby sleep you know whatever it is I didn't get up to 18 months either so I'm like fuck those people by the way

“another yeah yeah fuck them another scary thing I think was I remember when I was in the hospital”

with her for those like five six days and the doctor asked me if there was anyone in my family who had a baby who died of cids oh no and my cousin son had passed away at three months old and my mom's sister and so then I'm like oh my god is this genetic like I've got it on the paternal side and the maternal side like my baby that's gonna be her and so it was like that fear of it's just oh you go ahead it was so many things at one no many oh my god I know yeah proud of you

in the world you did the work let's shift we're gonna shift into the valley how did like why are you not more on the valley is this a personal choice is that a bravo choice are you allowed to say because yeah I'm talking when I see you on the valley I'm so excited when I see you pop up season one I was I filmed a couple times but we were filming season 11 at the time season two I came on as a

“friend of because every intention was to go back to Vanderpump rolls for season 12 and that's why”

I think I didn't have a huge roll on season two because they're like we're not gonna waste your story on the valley we're gonna save that for season 12 season 12 you know as we know it is now rebooted and whatnot so they're like well don't worry like we're not doing Vanderpump rolls with you guys anymore but you'll be on the valley and I was like okay great you know job security awesome

it just didn't feel right it felt like not a safe space it felt like the same thing that I had been doing for 14 years it didn't feel like a fresh star it just felt like a continuation having the same people have agency over my story and tell my story and they haven't

always done the best job of that so now host New York Times bestselling book I love your book

yeah I grow up you have been a fair and just mental health everything that I'm going through right now in life I didn't feel like it was the best option right now I felt like you know I'm not saying no I'm never gonna be on the valley again I'm a bridesmaid in Jasmine and Melissa's wedding so yeah but I just knew for season three the place that I was in it was not gonna be the best move for me so that was 100% my decision I think everyone was very shocked by that decision nobody walks away from

that much money but I did and I'm still very happy with my decision I think it was the right one and we don't know what the future holds but I'm still friends with like almost everyone on that show like those are still my real friends but it is different when you film with your friends that's really brave honestly because it is so easy to get pressured into just like I doesn't feel right it doesn't feel right but I shouldn't say yes like people want me to say yes

good job one thing I never do is follow my gut I know they say like oh there's women's intuition

mothers intuition but I'm always so afraid that and I think this goes back to the OCD that my decision is you know gonna be life or death and I'm gonna make the wrong decision and I never follow my gut my intuition I followed the paycheck I followed the guarantee I followed the you know safe route and I think that's just the way I was raised is just you stick in what's comfortable and this was the first time where it wasn't just my gut it was also my psychics and I was like I trust

“them but my gut was telling me this is not the best thing for you and your family right now so”

I listened to my gut and I feel like since saying no I have done so much work I've built

strong close friendships with people I've known for years but now we're just so much closer because

taking that time away when all of my friends who I normally hang out with regularly they're all busy filming I have time to work on myself and that's been honestly life changing and is there a part to because I feel like I know you sorry weird I don't I don't I don't know if you know I know I don't know if I did we know me so I really do you know people say like I feel like I know you say watch one TV I'm like what did you read the book because then you can say that

I read it in probably a day and a half oh my God I did I know it was really good I mean it's like we just keep going I can't not was there a part also that's a little bit of people please are and I feel like you're growing like everything we talked about today yeah you've done a lot of healing work and so it would all do you have also said yes because it's just the people please are where it's just like of course have you been you know you want to make people happy

“that's just that's what makes sense that was you know what if I'm not gonna be on bander”

pump rules anymore then it makes sense that I would just go on the valley you know long on shorts are doing it so if I have an offer why would I not do that you know it's guaranteed good check but I just knew that it didn't feel right maybe season four maybe season five who knows you know I mean season three sauce air maybe I could pick can we pitch like a sheena show I would love to watch a sheena she know there aren't things that I am working on

okay good whether that will be this year next year who knows but I'm just excited to be able to have the chance to explore other opportunities that I've wanted to do for a while maybe season four maybe season five I don't know but I do know that when I said no and I closed that door a door that I've wanted to open for a really long time I cracked open we've had some meetings and there are things that I'm working on that are dream jobs of mine you know it's like I

wouldn't have been able to take these meetings and have these opportunities had I done the show

“I feel like everyone thinks that I walked away because they're like oh you must have a show on”

another network or you must have this and you must have that and I'm like there's nothing that's like guaranteed and written but now I have the opportunity to pursue something I've wanted to do for a really long time and I can't wait to be able to talk about that more you can't talk about it more now you cannot talk about it more I feel like that is such an iterated thing though that maybe a lot of us need more of in 2026 is sometimes when you say no you create space for something

and trust the universe that it's going to come the opportunity will come that's very insightful but I still can't get over I'm just thinking I'm just like I have a thousand ideas of what it could be and I'm dying can I be the first one now you're gonna have to tell me you're gonna be the person you put it this one day oh my god besties from the moment I wake up there is one thing I dream about and that is when can I get back into my bed I wish I were joking but I'm not

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compass in the sea of the life I'm Dominic Soxa news anchor current youtuber author and like you somebody who is still learning and growing and asking a whole lot of questions

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within that's why I created over 50 in flourishing a podcast to help us navigate the changes the challenges the joy and the freedom in this season here you're going to find honest conversations where we might laugh and cry all in the same hour let's flourish together in line body and spirit nothing's off the table new episodes every Monday wherever you watch and listen really quickly you are an amazing mom you're an incredible mom we know this

we were just on your podcast so we heard listen to that episode we're on shenanigans it was incredible you were very tuned in with your daughter you love her so much you guys are very much connected I want to talk a little bit because you opened up in your book about brok having an affair and this is huge and this is something definitely not a lot of moms are opening up

and yet I have to guess that this is a lot of young moms reality this happens in a lot of relationships so talk me through finding out about the affair while also having this daughter together that you love so much making the decision to stay together as a family walk me through

yeah I mean it was not an easy decision I was the person who always said if I'm ever cheated on

I'm out I'm done you know I feel like most people say that until you're in a situation you don't know what you're gonna do and when you have a kid that just adds a whole other layer and I'm like okay here we are we're two and I think she was almost three it was a month before her third birthday that I found out hmm and or no sorry a month before her second birthday when I found out right we were in 2020 yeah so a month before her second birthday I like we're literally planning her party

I found out about this it was actually Easter he told me on Easter so Easter 2023 scandal all of these things it was just I didn't believe what he was saying when he told me he and I sit down we're having a great day spent Easter with the fan we're all housewives of New Jersey has a new episode I'm right when I go to hit play he's like wait I have to talk to you about something and he looks really serious and he starts to tell me

and I'm just confused I'm like what what kind of joke are you playing like this is him funny and obviously wasn't a joke we had a really long discussion that night he gives me this letter that he had written a couple years ago but then all of these rumors about him and Raquel that

“were coming up he was worried that with false rumors a true one would come out and so that's why”

he told me and I don't know if he ever would have told me if that wasn't happening I can't even say I'm glad he did because I don't I don't know if I am but in that moment I'm just like this is something you did two and a half years ago am I gonna let your actions from past Brock affect our future together you've proven to be an incredible father to summer you know you're doing all of the work you need to do with your two older kids you're such a good person I'm so

angry at what you did but for our daughter sake I'm gonna just not tell a soul other than my amazing manager to be on high alert if there were any blind items or anything that came out about it and I told my best guy friend and that was it other than Brock sister because I called her immediately and I was like you're a brother and you know she had a yell at him for me so I didn't tell anyone

because I didn't want any outside opinions I didn't want my mom who was always you know

“er with him I didn't want her giving me an opinion well you should leave I didn't want”

Ariana and Katie giving me opinions of what I should do and so I just I didn't tell anyone I needed to do what was best for me and my family and it was not an easy decision it was not an easy time to get through it was a very busy time I mean scandal like it just happened we pick back up cameras where at Coachella I'm on watch what happens live I'm on e-news entertainment tonight like all of these things are happening while I'm just dying inside and then we start filming season 11

and I'm still dying inside and there was a moment I talked about this in the book where I can picture exactly where we're standing around like the second level of our marina condo and Brock hugged me and she put her arms round us and she was like we're a family and I was like I have to give this every shot I can because like I don't what and there's there's nothing wrong

“with a growing up in a split household if that's what the parents have to do I didn't grow up”

that way he did I didn't want her to grow up that way and I was like I will do whatever I have to

do to keep us together because I want her to have that stability and I love him he's an incredible

partner he's an incredible father what he did back then I think goes with his attachment style he's a fearful avoidant they are more likely to cheat he felt shame he didn't feel he deserved to be a father again and then I started to actually have empathy and just to feel for him of I feel so bad that you felt like that was your only option you felt like you had a self sabotage and ruin this amazing thing because you didn't feel like you deserved it and so I stayed it was not easy

he told me if I needed to have a hall pass and get him back I was welcome to I could have

going to help like unless his doctor dry is it's not gonna help you know I knew that wasn't gonna help you know so got him back in therapy more regularly got in couple therapy and wrote it down you know I was like look I wasn't ready to talk about it season 11 at all it was way too fresh I didn't want opinions I needed to figure out what I was doing I was just trying to keep my head above water and survive that season I ended up getting back into music and I had these distractions

and whatnot and I distracted myself for a while but then you know the feelings come back up and then his location is off and I get in my head and he says he's at the gym but then I'm like oh but you met her outside of there are still days where I get in that spiral but I'm able to communicate that with him now and it is still work every day like it's not easy to stay with someone after they betray you but for my daughter for myself for my family this was something I wanted to do

and I'm so so glad I did because it wasn't easy and if you just take the easy choices and

stick in with comfortable and safe like you might not always be happy and my gut I guess this was the

first time I listened to my gut my gut told me to give it a shot and so we did you know bought a house moved into it birthed Brock the Builder and we've gotten so much closer in some ways since this is happened we've also gotten further apart in certain ways with our sex life since this happened but we're both putting in the work every day to make it work because I don't think he would ever do that again he knows if he did his ass is lit on fire and kicked to the curb but it's hard

“it's really really hard to stay after the affair but you can and that's why I wanted to write”

about it in the book I I couldn't write a memoir and skip a literal chapter of my life and also I want women and men just people in general to know that it is okay to stay it's there's no shame around it you know and I was like look I felt like I've done the work that I'm like by the time season 12 comes around let's let's talk about it let's open up about it I want to write about it in the book and so I start writing the book they reboot season 12 the book comes out so

like well now it's not on the show you know but I was able to put it out with my own agency for the first time and take control of my narrative which I've not been able to do in my entire adult reality TV career so I think you know everything happens for a reason but the way that this came out and I was able to tell the world it I know that it has helped women I've had two personally come up to me one at a chargers game and one at Rob Ocon and both their husband

“succeeded they stayed they have kids one of them I said I think she said it been together now like”

25 years since that and I was like wow and just knowing that that resonated with people and they're

like oh my god me too and I never told anyone because I felt ashamed to stay so it's not easy

it is work every single day and you know when he has as you heard on the podcast when it's like he raises his voice I shut down and these are still things that he needs to work on but I also I think about little Brock who was four years old and lost his fingers and an accident is that tells him to men up and I'm just like I can't imagine for like that little kid and so just thinking about little Brock and thinking about Brock who you know didn't have a relationship with his older

kids for so long and felt he didn't deserve this I just I have so much love for him and he is just

such an incredible partner and everything father just he's amazing so I'm really glad I stayed but

definitely not easy did you get to this place of I would call it radical empathy if if I if you will through therapy through couples therapy like this is foundational almost inner child work that you're talking about that a lot of us need to do for ourselves first but then to be able to do it for someone who hurt us whether that's our own parents or our partner

“kind of next level so what was it specifically that got you there? I think there be definitely”

helps my therapist I've been with for a little over four years now she transitioned from individual

to go to a new therapist I I have trust issues there was the therapist who Jack's had who was

out at a bar talking about him one night and so then I have that in the back of my head and I was like I'm not starting a couple therapy with someone new I'm not being like hi nice to meet you my husband I don't know fair let's I was saying no so I said I will give up doing individual therapy because

“I think we need a couple therapy more and my therapist would be too biased if you see me on the”

side and then us together so I gave up individual therapy we did a couple therapy for a while it really helped to help me understand why he did what he did and what place he was in and it just made me really sad for him that he felt like that was what he needed to do to I don't I don't know what he was thinking but I know he felt like he didn't deserve to be a dad again and that just made

me really sad for him and after months in couples therapy I went back to individual and now we're

just individually doing therapy and we have pretty much a couple therapists with our parent friends now we just talk it all out with them and it's some of the best advice we've gotten I love that and you feel freer knowing that it's that it's out I mean I can't imagine being a public figure and you find out this information and hey I think it's great that you not that you care it's great

“I think that you shared it when you were ready you weren't sharing it right away because it's so”

fresh and it's so raw and at the same time then that whole time until you were ready you're just are we just is it just like paranoia of being like this might come out you're going to be a headline or there was a blind item that came out right after the book sold the day I get a book deal the next day my friend sends me a screenshot and she's like oh my god look at this that's crazy and I'm like yeah that's crazy like what a lie you know that's and she's like yeah I know it's

so stupid I just thought I'd tell you and I'm like what the fuck like it was very specific that and they had like the little asterix in our names it's like you could tell that says summer moon you could tell the broken china yeah but the fact that that came out it made him open up to my mom my sister we started telling the people closest to us and then you know I'm writing the book it's

“about to come out there are excerpts that are going to come out because I guess that's what you do”

you put out the expert at excerpts before you send out copies and have influencers you know talking about it and before that came out I opened up to a couple of my close friends and then they told people and so then I'm like this is why I didn't tell people for so long and that made me reevaluate friendships really look at who I can trust and realize that I don't have to tell everyone everything I don't owe it to anyone I owe it to myself and my family but other than that

like I don't owe it to everyone I put it all in the book I did that for me I did that to help other people to know that if I can go through this so can you and there was no way I was writing a memoir and leaving that out it would have been an incomplete book if it came out one day like it would be like that that book it's she's a fraud you know she didn't even talk about the biggest thing going on in her life people were so mad I didn't talk about that season 11 I'm like

I don't make care about my family at that point okay I didn't care about a storyline on a show yeah it was a bit hypocritical here I am you know going in on Tom and my own husband did the same

thing and I'm not being forthcoming and I'm the first person to say when you're on a reality show

you give a hundred percent of your life you don't hide things you put it all out there so absolutely it was hypocritical of me I just felt in my gut that I needed to do this to protect my family and that was I just saw red anywhere else it was just summer moon and I I wasn't ready to talk about it and things are different when you're a mom can we just say that I mean first of all it's kind of all happened I think I mean I don't know not the expert but maybe I am it happened but

he didn't want it to happen like nobody was wanting like he wasn't like he willingly gave that information and if he did willingly give the information we don't know how that would have played out like they might have handled it privately and then a season later that's when they talk about it just like you did we we don't know that for sure yeah but especially when you have a kid it's next level we're not talking about like pump teenies and you know like woo this is serious

shit that involves a little child and a soul and a family and you need a time to protect that before you were willing to then share your story your own time and your own when you're still shared it yeah you didn't have to yeah by the way extremely reasonable man I said they're best over you like you did the right thing yeah so let's end it on a beautiful note tell us what is your favorite thing of motherhood right now she's for tell us what's like your peak

hall in the morning when she's coming in even though I'm exhausted and I don't want to walk downstairs

“to get her milk but I want to cuddle with her and have that more time just she is the best thing”

I am so so blessed with an incredible kid who is empathetic who's helpful follows the rules

who listens like I I know that that also goes down to the parents and you know my mom is with her a lot as well and so it's like I think that as a mom I am just so blessed and so grateful to have

“this amazing smart little girl everything is just my favorite I could tell you what's not my favorite”

and that is that hearing her cry when I just want to go and be like everything's okay I'm like

this is my least favorite sound in the world because it's just like distress you know but when she runs up to me I mean every day it's like she hasn't seen me in a week like when she gets out

“it's like oh man she's so excited and gives me the big hug and I'm just like oh that love that”

you feel there's nothing like it in the world she's really lucky to have you and you've been through a

lot really resilient and we talk about doing the work but like girl you're doing the work yes so good job thank you being on after bed time I could talk to you for seven more hours I know right I'm going to send you a DM every month about whatever this announcement is because I've been thinking it in the back and when you're ready you could respond to me and let me know what it is we're so excited to see what comes this year we love you we love your little family we love

rock and cheers to all the hard work that both you and Brock have done because I mean we can tell we've sat with you in a studio even beautiful family and thank you for being here please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode