Mark Cuban on the AI Bubble: Who Actually Gets Wiped Out?

We've seen this movie before. And this wave seems very different than the dot com wave. So let's talk about that. Are you concerned about a bubble?

We're seeing bubbly like behavior people. It's not the traditional dot com bubble, right? Because back then, there were companies going public. It'd be crazy valuations of people or buying them. And the stock would go up, you know, 50% a hundred percent

with companies that had no revenue, no traffic, no nothing. And you'd go get a cab back then. People would be talking about them. Yeah. And you don't see that at all today.

“So it's not a bubble that's going to impact most people in the room, right?”

Or most people across the US. But it could just destroy a lot of VCs and a lot of funds and a lot of P.E. Right? Because they're going all in. At 11 started with an $8 domain and no VC funding.

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And they're all in an anthropic and getting their outcomes and SpaceX and celebrating. But if she hits the fan, yeah. And it really is, like, I've only done venture for just over 10 years.

“And it is wild to watch so many people who deployed at the wrong time”

just at a business. They just invested at the peak and enterprise matters. And you and I have been in a bunch of deals together. And we used to get to invest in companies.

That's 5 million, 10 million as angel investors.

And then all of a sudden, the request was 40, 50, 60. And the product's not launched and you're not-- No, and that is just work. Yeah. And what's happening now is the market leaders, Google, et cetera, meta.

They're borrowing hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, that's interesting. And there's already a private credit problem right now. So you just layer on, private credit, like outcapital, getting all the refunds.

And then you have these huge companies that have cashflow. But there's spending all their cashflow and cashflow and cash and then they're borrowing on top of that. That's the year bonds. That's planning for perfection.

And that's going to be hard. And we're building these data centers. And if there's a price performance curve on AI that minimizes the power requirements, there's going to be a lot of data centers that

are going to be turned into pickleball courts. Interesting. Because they just can't get the power turned on. No, and then just the power is just everybody thinks that, OK, there's going to be so much more utilization.

And there will be, right? It'll just scale like everybody expects. But there's going to be breakthroughs in technological breakthroughs as well. Just like we saw fiber back in the day.

It was all about putting in fiber. Then it went from one gigabyte, fiber to 10, to 100 gigabyte. And then there wasn't a fiber problem anymore. There wasn't a bandwidth problem. And it was quite the opposite.

We had dark fiber that people bought. Yeah. And there's a few Chinese on the dollar. And just sitting there, right? And how is it not going to be the case that we don't

get the same price performance improvements on the AI side and on the data center side? Yeah. And then with all the hate going against the data centers, I think that could be protecting them.

I mean, spending tens of billions of dollars for 10, 20 years going out, I mean, nobody can predict that well. I mean, you used the word pricing to perfection, I think, earlier in the conversation. And that's really what's happening.

“I mean, you have to have a thesis that we're going to put 100--”

you know, open AI $100 billion to work.

And that's going to come back, not just in revenue. But it has to come back and earnings. A margin of dollars, yeah. It has to be profitable. Yes.

And you just don't know. And I'll tell you the other in terms of the corollary for bubbles, right? In this particular bubble, because it's so driven by private capital, there should be a lot more companies going

public, not at the SpaceX level for not open AI, not inthropic, but the $100 million IPO. Because if AI does what AI knows, we all know what it'll do in terms of disruption, then you want to have some sort of currency that

allows you to buy all those companies. Like you guys were talking about buying different legal companies, right? Well, if you don't have that currency, the stock is currency,

And if anything happens, and that money is not cheap, that money is really, really expensive.

Versus, if you go out and you do a $100 million IPO

or a $50 million IPO, and you can do a secondary, whatever, as many times as you need, if you're performing. But the minute that company that you're competing with, that is a legacy business, can't keep up, or there's some other company that has domain expertise that you need,

or data that you need, like you guys were talking about, you want to be in a position to buy them. Yes, that isn't right about what we're thinking. Yeah, no one to support with thinking like that at all. And I'm trying to tell my portfolio companies,

go public, mother, f***, go public. Yes, they just don't think that's the right thing to do. Well, an M&A is not to make this political, but when you're an entrepreneur, you have to play the game on the field.

M&A was off the table. Lina Khan had a certain perspective, which was, we have to be like three cogs in my narrative report. We have to predict who's going to be up in the future and stop them now.

It's like, okay. I was in a situation to compete with China and everything else is going on globally for four years of no acquisitions. I mean, the people I talked to were in corporate development were like, we've been told to stand down

because it's not, but we're going to where we are going to see. But even so, right, it's, you know, with mergers and acquisitions that that's still fine. But if AI does what we know it will do, the companies that are disruptive don't have to be

a enormous company.

No, these are, you don't want to have to always raise cash

to go out and assist you to get inside like this. Right, because like back in the day back with broadcast.com, we bought like five companies just stuck and then there was always a bigger fish to come up with. Which we're happy to, you know, be honest with you.

Yeah, yeah, the famous collar. If you were a Claude employee, if you're out at Thropic

“or at OpenAI, is it time to start thinking about the collar?”

It's trying to think about, yeah, pairing. You know, I call her my stop because how rich do I need to be? Right. You know, and if you're able to change your life, if I work for any SpaceX, any of them, right, whatever,

I'd be like, you know, somebody put together a collar for me. Yeah, you know, because I just need to be protected, say part for my upside, but just cover my downside. Yeah. When you did it, you had to like actually orchestrate that, right?

It didn't exist as a product. No, it didn't. So I had to actually create an index of internet stocks. I had Goldman Sachs created an index of internet stocks and I thought sucked and then I sorted that index

because we had to follow all the loss. And I just had to have that short and placed until I was able to do a real collar in the market on my Yahoo stock. And I lost tens of millions of dollars on that short, but I made up for it.

Yeah, I mean, one of the great trades of all time. What do you think the, this wave of capabilities in AI,

I'm sure you play with it because you've always been a tanker.

So maybe what are you tinkering with? And what do you think is going to be the most world-changing,

“you know, in the next five, 10 years for entrepreneurs or society?”

Where do you look at it and go, hey, let's really need a world. Yeah, okay. So AI is a lot harder to implement than anybody expected. For sure, right? You know, you can do an agent pretty straightforward, right?

Yeah, you can prompt away, you know, which you didn't on test. We, you know, cheated at work, you know, did projects and proved their productivity 100x, right? All easy peasy and we just assumed, you know, at the enterprise and be just as easy. It's hard.

Yeah. And it's terrifying. And not terrifying for employees because dairy on everybody's saying 50% of white color people are going to lose their jobs. Here we are two years later, they said within two years.

Yeah. And, you know, employment still growing, people are hiring. We need more AI-literated people, right? So CEOs have no clue what is going on. None whatsoever.

And that's not going to change, right?

“And so, you know, you're trying to explain to them that you need to add a”

hardest to do, you know, all the, yeah, no chance, right? And if you think about it from an AI perspective, if AI, we're talking about, you know, AI, and we're talking about taking over the world. If you can, if you need to have forward deployed engineers, that tells you all you need to know about AI because by definition, you should just be able to ask AI to do what

I need you to do and ask and tell me how to implement it, right? Yet here you have Microsoft hiring 6000 people, right? You have in traffic, open AI, all saying they're going to deploy to these companies, which tells you AI is hard. And then you have Alex Carp from Palantir, freaking out saying, how can you give your

alpha to these companies when, in my opinion, he's just saying they're doing what we're doing, right? Yeah. We're all about four different engineers that Palantir and they're doing the same thing.

or you're making your little agent to, you know, go to your cron job, okay, fair enough, it's, it's going to work.

“You need to be, I have a little bit of systems thinking, but when you start putting into”

the enterprise and, you know, this is making fair up to work, about the little bit of systems thinking. Yeah. Because that's the second part. And I'm not trying to sound AI.

I love it. I invest in it.

It's going to be amazing.

It's the most impactful technology that we've ever seen and may ever see, right? But try going into clutter or chat to PT and saying, okay, I just want you to do this search for Jason Calicown as investments and I want you to report and I want you to email it to me every week. Yeah.

You can't do it. And then it says, OK, would you like for me to do an agent that gives you alerts? And then you say, sure. And then you have to know how to program because it either gives you Jason file or it gives you, you know, code.

And it comes out. Slop. Yeah. Then you have to knock a rag.

“You should write, you have to reiterate, you know, if you want to say, you know, let me”

load a picture in and you tell me if I'm hotter or not, or is this girl hot?

Which did I say to her, you know, or business versions?

Great. Yeah. Right. Not going to, you know, take away 50% of the jobs. There's just so much.

It can't do that regular people need it to do. Yeah. Right. Now, does that create opportunity, enormous opportunity? Yes.

Right. So like I'm an investor and lovable, and we were here this morning talking. And I was saying that people are using lovable to create 770,000 applications a week. A week. Right.

And that only 30% of their business is into US and only 20% is engineers. And what's happening is entrepreneurs to answer your question about where you're going, right? If you're not entrepreneur, like he was saying before, there's no better time to be an entrepreneur. He's, he nailed it, right?

Because that's where AI is the most impactful, no matter where you are in the world, to have big utilization and Brazil, India, right, if you're in France, US, wherever, you know, like I gave it a prompt, like I said, because I wanted to see what it would take. I was like, okay, we're going to create an imaginary company that has a button that can record 24 hour video.

And then I wanted to be able to send it to me every 24 hours, and I want you to create a patent and a business plan and tell me what licensee to whatever I need. 12 minutes. Yeah. Like, we've started tons of businesses six months to get a prototype, 12 months to launch

it. Yes. And then I asked for a bill of materials in the source companies, like the basic stuff to be that the blocking and tackling stuff that every company has to do, you know, when you're setting it up and early in its lifecycle, done, done, and even if it's wrong.

So what? Because the one thing you and I both know, and everybody in the room should know, every single mother, (beep) business plan ever written in the history of business plan. Yeah. It's wrong.

Of course. Yeah. It's a thought exercise that at least gives you some sort of direction you're going. Yeah.

It's a little bit of a guideline. Yeah. But it's wrong. Yeah. So what if the AI is wrong, if the model was wrong, you know, because you're

going to learn and you're going to iterate, but it's still, again, all this talk about taking white-collar jobs is ridiculous when it can't even do the basic shit, right?

“And you have to have, like you said, a programming mindset in order to be able to iterate”

and figure it out. And like even you would think if AI is advanced, as we want to believe AI is right now, all the errors that we get when we ask it to do a project, it would learn from all those errors. And even have, hey, I'm Claude, you know, I see you have a problem with this, right?

And if failed on these three attempts, let me just tell you what, 97.6% of the other people ran into this did, right? And then it would fix it for you and tell you, it doesn't even do that. It just says failed, right, versus whatever, you know, again, AI is amazing, and particularly for programmers.

It's game. Yeah. And when you have a narrow data set, like code or legal, it's just hacks, it's magic. Yeah. And it's just math, right?

But basic data, right, but when you want it to do, when normal people anywhere in the world, want to use it for normal stuff, great, you start a business, great. But if you want to start getting advanced, it's like figuring out PowerPoint used to be or excel, right?

You always have to have your excel expert, you know, your power in your company, yeah,

wherever that you knew, right, or there would be companies built, I even destined to like your company, that's right, Sharon, that all they did was have power point templates that you could download and redo, AI is not even that advanced for, you know, once you get to

And so, it creates so much opportunity for anybody to walk into a small medium size, even large business and say, hey, I understand AI, I have a basic computer background or better. And so, all these sales that you're running into across your your company bigger small, I can help you fix them because what AI can do once those issues are fixed is phenomenal. But even better, if you're thinking as an entrepreneur to start a business, those things

will eventually break, ages get bored, right, and they drift, because as the underlying large language model starts to change, the way it was originally programmed, doesn't

“match with the large language model turned into, right, you understand?”

And so, you and you even wrote something about this, right, where it's taking more people to manage all this stuff. I'm doing all of you. Starting a business, usually means juggling a bunch of different services just to look legit, not anymore.

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business.

I'm trying to get the whole firm to be AI-first, and even with young people, it's one group

and braces it, and they solve, I don't know, let's call it, five or six, really pressing issues. The other group is not embracing it, and the difference between those AI-first employees, and the non-AI-first employees, the gap is like, whoa, it's almost like when we got into the industry, and somebody knew how to use the office suite and a piece of it.

Right, right. And then somebody else was like, on legal paths, it's like, that much of a difference. It's so stark.

“People who are AI-literate, what, when do they run into a ceiling?”

Well, you know, it's, what I'm seeing is a lot of tool hopping, which is a, it's a good question because they started with open claw, they started building it, it got brittle. Is anybody still in open claw? Who's open claw? Anybody using Ermez?

Agent, okay, there you go. Who's on cloud co-work, and then, oh, whoa, and proplexity computer, anyone? Okay, interesting. Those are the four that people have been bouncing around on, and what I decided to do is I was just like, hey, token max, you can, you can each spend a couple thousand dollars

a month. I don't care about that. I just care about the gains, and they all wound up going from open claw, all the agents started breaking. It's hallucinating, it's like two frustrating, they started using cloud co-work.

Okay, great, but kind of limited, and then they started using loveable, and they built

intranets for the venture business that no venture business would spend a half million

dollars, and 12 months building an intranet, like you just be like, I'm going to put it in notion and Google sheets, whatever, and then they just started building more and more software. So I have two or three people who are building software, that I would say five years ago, we would have spent maybe two or three million dollars a year building this, and that

sounds like you just would not have done it. Which means we wouldn't have done it. Right, you would just bought the SaaS application that did it. And then we would have tried to, like, shoehorn it into a SaaS app and customize it. It wouldn't have worked.

We would have given up. But how are you going to manage it now once they get there? Well, you know, again, to your company, loveable, which, man, congrats on that investment. Because that company was going to go out of business four times, and I told Anton, every

time they say you're going out of business, you had a hundred million a revenue, 600 million

a revenue, and four times, 200 million, and 300 million, oh yeah, it's going to be absorbed into the front of your model. The front of the world, right? Yeah. I mean, I've got, lovable, I've got Synthesia.io, oh yeah, it was the first investor in 10 years

ago, maybe that, that are just, it's just killing it, right? I've got AMI, which is Y'all the Coons world model, yeah. We haven't even talked about world models versus LLM and Transformers because everything we do is build on text and pictures, yeah. Not there's going to be text and pictures in 10 years, right?

But what's going to drive it, and like people say what AI is so smart, it's going to change everything. I'm like, okay, if you tell AI, if you show AI a video of a two-year-old on a high-chair with a Synthesic Cup, the two-year-old knows that if you push the Synthesic Cup over the edge, yeah, mom's going to come running, and the AI, the kids are going to start laughing.

Yeah. And I've got no clue what's going to happen. Yeah. Not, right? Would you, right?

“If you're at a corner, blindfolded, and you have to cross the street, would you rather”

have a video, would you rather have your phone with AI, but would you rather have a C and eye dog? Yeah, dog. I'm thinking the dog every time. Of course, yeah, it's not ready.

Yeah. It's not ready.

“So, just think about how far we have to go, you know, and all the huge opportunity, though.”

I mean, the world models are crazy because you have videos available on YouTube and just, we have the world there. So, that's not enough. It's not enough. They have to wear gloves, and now they've got people in Manila, like doing recipes.

So I'm going to go to companymatter.com, and they're watching satellites just to take, and they do spectrography where they take use of satellites to take videos of everything underneath them, and use a spectrary amount of even understanding all the shit in order to be able to convert it into a world model that will provide algorithms that other world models can use.

Yeah. And there's just no way that the future of AI doesn't include video. Oh, I mean, it's a huge part of it, and as the inference, and the back to the build out of these data centers, as we wonder what's going to happen, people wanting to use more tokens, and then these world building and video, and that takes a magnitude to show

you. Yeah. So I'm going to be wrong on the data centers. It's going to be because of the video. Yeah.

Right. And world models and robotics, which is all related. I mean, and robotics, you know, it's related, but we still got a long way to go. Yeah. Health.

You look great, by the way. I don't know. What's going on? You got the reddit, reddit, true tie. What's on the menu?

No, yeah. What's off the menu? Follow me on Instagram.

“And I just, I mean, eating better, I mean, you look better now than 20 years ago.”

Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, you had health too, right? The tab. But I mean, you look thin and fit.

And we're getting up there now. We're not kids anymore. This is definitely going to help AI all the work being done. Yeah. And I use it too.

Like I invested in the company called Open Evidence. Yes. Yeah. Which is what we're medical. Right?

And I used it. And like, I have two, I have one supplement I have to take because my under levels allow. And I have to take this one medication. And I was taking them at the same time and couldn't understand why I was having problems.

I run it through Open Evidence. And I said, here's everything I'm taking. Yep. Everything I'm eating. And they're like, no, you got to do this.

When you get up to pee at three in the morning, take this medication. Oh, man. You get it. Yeah.

I always write there with you last night.

What's going on? Let's go on. Right. And so, you know, but it's for health, it's going to make a huge difference. But it's not going to replace doctors.

No. But I mean, it is pretty amazing. Are you on woof are your Apple watch? I watch. Yeah.

I mean, the woof, plus getting your blood tests, just self directed, health care with AI. Man, you're going to get some early wins. And then when you do go talk to your doctor, you have it right there. I have it right there.

I have it right there. I've tested it. You know, six months. It's still three to six months. Yeah.

Right. And I've been doing it for 10 years. So I know all my trends. Wow. And so you were doing it before a function in super far.

Yeah. Like, you could go look up Mark Cuban blood tests on Twitter, right? Excellent. And I would get into it with doctors like, eight, 10 years ago, and just then you're going to need this for your benchmarks.

And, um, but it's only going to get better. Yeah. It's going to be really interesting. We had this big data moment. And it was like, OK, you were storing all this data, but we didn't have any intelligence

against it.

Now, that's incredible when Apple is now putting that data.

They're doing studies. I don't know if you've been invited to studies on your Apple watch. Yeah. I'm like, well, this is going to get very interesting. The woof just added blood panels.

Yeah. So now your sleep data, your steps, your heart rate, your respiratory, EKG, blusher blood work. That's prevent if you can get your diet into it as well. Yeah.

“That's what I watch as an eye health, right?”

Yeah. So yeah, you're just going to get smarter, you know, and that'll make your doctors able to be smarter because 95% of medicine is guessing, you know, because you can't. There's no way a doctor can memorize all the new f*** that happens every single day. You just can't.

But a doctor using these tools, having, you know, the empathy and the ability to communicate and the ability to see. Yeah. Right? Because again, there's, you can't see.

Yeah. So you could have, you know, why am I bleeding? You know, you got a blood, you got a, you got a young shot wound, right? Yeah. Yeah.

He's not going to tell you that, do I? Yeah. When we look at the opportunity here, it's going to be a lot of change, a lot of talk about wealth disparity in the US, invest America, our friend, Brad Gersner, and our friend Michael Dowell, and other great Texan, and thanks for welcome me.

I'm enjoying my time. I want Texas. Yep. I mean, it's f***ing great. I love Texas man.

This is fun. It's kind of like the heat's kind of like this though. Yeah. We have air conditioning. We do have air conditioning.

There's a record number of air conditioners coming from China to Europe this summer. You know, I look at what companies installed them and everything.

Oh, you're always got a trade.

You always got a trade. Here he is. But there's no real sold out.

But really interestingly, you know, feels like entrepreneur ship, which has been our shared

passion for many decades, hey, investing another shared one, giving people access to public markets in West America. We have this dueling narrative, socialism in America, capitalism, and it feels like this is the in our lifetimes, you and our close in age. This is the most favorite.

We've ever seen it. I mean, we have states, but maybe not since the 60s or 70s. I missed that. I was born in 1970. You were born, I guess, 1943, 23, 23.

I always joke. I like the brother too. You look good. We're not even doing this. But, you know, it's just pretty polarized.

And what you're taking on the social. There's two things here. Yeah.

One, all the DSA stuff is local.

Right. It's really easy to be mandami in New York when you have a budget. You get to control it. And it's local, right. You got elected.

“You just do and you have to balance the budget.”

And you'll see the Michigan and wherever else. I don't think it's going to be game changing. But the more important thing is the people who are doing this or the people who are best at social media. Right.

You know, because the algorithms drive how people vote in the United States, I can't speak to the rest of the world, more than anything else. Whoever controls the algorithm controls, you know, the election in many cases. Trump knows how to use it and what do mandami, you know, what is unique about mandami relative to Trump.

He's what 131, 32 years old. Yep.

His whole adult life has been Trump and social media.

He studied it. And the two together. Yeah. And the guy and Michigan's the same thing. So, if you're good at AI, I mean, at algorithm, you know, driving algorithms, whether

it's flooding the zone or, you know, like Trump's saying, they're eating cats and dogs. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, you know, defining the algorithms, because whatever you search for, you get more of and if they can get you to search for what they're saying and show your interest,

then you're going to just get Mandami 24/7 and you'll get the positive size of the Mandami or if you happen to be on the other side of the aisle and you are, you know, looking at stuff that's counter to that, you'll get more of that.

“We don't, you know, like, but one other piece, I think, is starting to change that.”

And that's the large language models. The thing that I think will save us as a world more than anything else in terms of information availability and reducing the information asymmetry as it applies to politics or large language models. Because large language models have to be as literate or in literal and honest as they possibly

can. True seeking. Yeah. True seeking better way to put it in. Yeah.

So they, they have to seek truth. Otherwise, you'll lose trust in them. And the last thing, you know, cloud, open the aisle needs is, you know, they're lying their ass off about this group. Yeah.

Their currency is getting you the correct answer in the correct knowledge. Social media's currency is keeping you engaged. Right. It's two different missions. Totally different missions.

Right. And so you're not going to get rid of social media, but I think people as they become more uncertain with their politics are going to go more and more and more to large language models. It's a who should I vote for? And the large language models are going to come back and say, well, what do you think about

this? What are your interests in this and that it up? And they'll give you honest answers. Yeah. And if you ask it, hey, what's a reasonable immigration policy, it'll give you a reasonable

immigration policy. Which is like, yeah, maybe, and you appoint based system like Canada, New Zealand, whatever may be right. Yeah, I've done the same thing. And it's impressive.

You know, my favorite troll now is like JD or you know, AOC will, you know, they'll come out with whatever their craziness is on either side of the aisle. And then I'm like, at crock, please vet these claims, he has objective and factual as possible, check your work and show your stories. And then it just replies to them.

So I've been just totally trolling Stephen Miller. Oh my God. Who, you know, he's like anti immigration. I'm very passionate about like legal immigration and recruiting great people because we need them. Great, great running a basketball team.

Every time you get dirt, nervous, somebody else doesn't have them on the team. You get Joe and Brunson, it's not on the Mavericks anymore. Now he's on the next. Yep.

“You know, like, well, that's why we come to these things in Europe, right?”

Yes. Because great talent, right, smart people, obviously you guys are geniuses for being here. You know, but, but at the same time, there's a different vibe in every European country and India and the whole rest of the world, right? And I think you're starting to see some entrepreneurs leave us to come here and that's

scary. And hopefully, you know, large language models seeking the truth will help educate people

Yeah. I think it's important. You optimistic now, it's been pretty chaotic, but we're seeing such great progress. You're optimistic about. Let's start with America and then we'll go to Humanity.

Yeah. I mean, you know, like every country, we have our issues, our issues that would be kind of insane. It is pretty wild. Yeah.

But the good news is, you know, we have term limits for our presidents. Yeah. And yeah. And it seems like 12 or three terms is going to be the one for friends. I mean, you're going to run.

I mean, I hope you do. Man, I would love to be your press secretary, and I would be a fat. We'd have so much fun. We'd have fun. We'd have fun.

I mean, he's the run for a third term that I'll run.

But he's yeah. OK, that's good. That's breaking news.

“I mean, I honestly, like, if you think about what we need, I think in leadership, executives”

who can, I think, you know, who are like, post money, post needing to make a living. Yeah. No. I'm not going to go there. And then maybe who are doing it for love of country or maybe some amount of civic pride

or like you're what you're saying, right? It's just like, you know, in the US, the Democrats don't know how to actually do anything. Right. You know, they know how to take whatever happens and extrapolate that to the end of the world and the end of democracy, right?

Yeah. But and the Republicans on the other hand, you know, do crazy shit, right? Like they don't care about the people in the country. They don't, you know, there's no connection to people. There's no empathy.

And so, you know, we're fucking in the short term. But I think as we get past this next, the midterms and the next presidential election. I think we'll get to normal. Yeah, I think we'll get to normal. I think people want it.

And you know, the thing that's been really eye-opening for me, having lived in New York, California, and now Texas, you know, in Texas, we're spent half as much money per, sometimes less. So the thing is two point two times as much is spent on each citizen in New York, and we spend half as much, right? $67,000 per person, they spend like 14 or something, 12 to 14.

And the quality of life is better. But on the flip side, New York contributes more to the federal treasury. Yes. Then Texas does.

“And you would think it should be the opposite, right?”

Just because of the business and how things are run. So they're trade off. Yeah. But it's changing. It's about all of us moving to Austin and like Texas, you guys, barred, obviously, for

obvious reason, particularly, you know, like the wealth actually was just dumb, dumb, crazy. They tried it here. Yeah, they did it for about two years in France. Did they? Yeah, I don't know.

But you know, when Elizabeth Warren first proposed the wealth tax, so I found, and she said, well, we have these models and everything. So I found the economists at UC Berkeley, and I said, would you share your model with me or at least tell me about it because I'm like, was it more than one year? And he goes, no, it was just one year.

I'm like, did you do any behavioral analysis to see how people will respond to the changes? Yeah. No. And so, you know, whether it's mandami, Elizabeth Warren, whether it's California,

it's it's showmanship more than reality. Yeah.

“And I think people are forgetting that people are mobile, you know, like in the U.S.”

That's pretty extraordinary. You got Travis, Sacks, myself, Elon, just a bunch of folks have all of a sudden just shown up. I was there first. You were. I remember talking to you about it.

And the thing that's amazing to me is, you know, in California, you didn't let

you build anything. And then we go to, I come to Texas, I buy a ranch, and I asked a guy like, hey, can I put a solar farm in here, he's like, on your ranch? I'm like, yeah, here, he's like, oh, son, it's your ranch. You can do that.

Can I, can I like build like trust me in the cities themselves? Yeah, I do with that in the city of Austin. I mean, but just outside of it, you can build whatever it is. In the housing price have gone three years in a row, housing prices and rents have gone down.

When you build a company in Austin now, I'm sure it's like that in Dallas, when Houston is in Toronto, when I have founders move there, the entire pressure is released, people can own a home. And I was like, wow, is that why do people still go to Silicon Valley? That's like drives me, I think if you're a first time founder, nothing better in terms

of soaking in it. But when you're a second time founder, you need it, but what they don't tell you, they hit the **** right. Yeah, it's tough.

I think second time founders have not realized if I build it in Texas or Nevada or Florida,

I'm going to just, all the talents that I have in Silicon Valley just sets people's heads so wrong. Yeah. Right. So with us Travis, by the way, I've known Michael Delos since we were 22, but I used to do business

with them way back when. But just, yeah, in Texas, it's just like build your company and go. Yes. And the valley is like, so are you serious A or are you serious B or are you serious?

Yeah. 25 years I've been waiting for my next and win a championship and you played a significant role. No, the first thing to get a role, they should have kicked your ****. And why didn't they?

“Why didn't I think it was coaching, like, experience?”

Yeah. You're up, put aside the 29 right, you're up in the fourth quarter of every game. When we throws it into the back of some guy, I miss his two free throws, Darren Fox goes the wrong way. And a lot of mistakes.

Yeah. And you've been talking about fire in Mike Brown. I mean, it was if we worked, certain when he got hired and getting rid of tabs, you know, my God. But JP was the real deal, right?

Yes. He was my Indiana boy, OG, right? Yeah. You know, he saved you guys. Yeah.

And you had Jellen Bronson, he laughed and that was kind of destiny. His family wanted to come to you. That's what he wanted. I mean, I can show you with text, where his agent, you know, texted me, says he wants his own team.

He wants his own team. Right. Yeah. He was ready to go.

“And I texted her email as you and I said, what's the story of the, this is what we're”

going to base the franchise on, you said, he's really good. He's the real deal. He's a great guy. That's the best part about JP. He's just really a good human.

I was there for the fifth game, six rows behind the bench. That's cool. And man, I, I just cried. I just cried. It's been so many years.

And you got your tip to with Dirk.

It's so amazing how sports plays such a role in so many people's lives.

Yeah. First of all, look at the world cup. I mean, it's just like sports has just changed everything. You know, like, I've been to four world cup games in Dallas and I hate soccer. Football.

Right. I hate it. But just the whole scene, the vibe, the energy, you can't beat us. Like going to a next game, going to a math game, same thing. Yeah.

And the NBA is, is it Pete, it sounds like it's hard to say, I mean, yeah, you know, for fans, no, because I mean, it just grows on social media. You know, I went, I was walking in Paris and there was a basketball store, you know, and had Wimpy jerseys and goberry jerseys and everything. And so, I mean, it's just growing globally.

Yeah. Is Wimpy the real deal? Yeah. He's got, he got humble though. Yeah.

Which is good for him. It's like Dirk in 2006 got humbled and came back better. Wimpy will come back bigger stronger better. Yeah. It's amazing how he went from this, like, incredibly, I don't know, there was a, there

was a magic about him to, no, he's a villain. And he turned into a villain which was New York. Yeah, some years right and just the circumstances and, you know, San Antonio thought they had in the bag, everybody, it's like, I went to Indiana University right and if anybody here to follow his college football in the States, like we were the ultimate underdog.

We had not had, you know, we had not won 10 games. We had, we beat more top 10 teams last year than we did in 100 plus years of the program. And so that, that just changes people's attitude. I think you were very much involved in rule changes and, well, we're going to get on AI next, but it's just great to talk to you about this since we're both such a super fan of the

NBA. It seems like the rule changes, the apron and, you know, how punitive it is has created a lot more parity in the league and nobody knows who's, who's going to win like, well,

“because you have to break up your team, right?”

Because at some point, okay, see, we'll have to break up their team. That's why they collect all the draft assets because you can't have three max players. No. And if one of them turns out to be hurt or not, what you expected, then you're in deep shit, right?

And so the second apron is just a complete game changer.

And you have to be so much better at putting together a team than you were before. And you have to get lucky. Like the spurs have won be under rookie contract. You know, the, okay, see, has got, you know, hatchet on a rookie contract. He's not on a rookie contract any longer, right?

So they have to be even more careful. And so it really changes the strategy behind building a roster. So we're going to see back to backs or any more chance. No chance. No, I mean, maybe back to backs, but not a, what do they call when you have three?

The three feet. Yeah, three feet. There can be back to backs. Like, you know, if J. and the, J Williams, J. Dob hadn't gotten hurt for OKC, I think they would have beat San Antonio and I think they would have beat the net.

I was worried about them versus the next. I knew we could beat the spurs, but I was concerned about that. No, you could buy. No, it would be home on. We beat them two out of three of the games in the year.

We're spanked them. I knew it would be like a, I said, Nixon six, it was Nixon. If you guys barely beat the Hawks, and then, oh, come on now. We, we were, tweaking the offense. And we just had to get cat to buy in as far as let's talk.

Yeah, you let's talk to, yeah, but it is great to be a champion. God, it was, where's your ring? Then it give you, they didn't get it. No, I'm going to get it at the ring, sir. Yeah, you got one.

I, you know, I always was like, man, I got to follow cubes and get, you know, a piece of

I always wanted to get like a, you know, a piece of the next.

“And now it's like, my net worth doing great.”

The value of the team. Disconnected for reality. I mean, my only chances to call like a lot of the right part about the valuations is,

it's not driven by attendance.

It's not driven by Windsor losses.

“It's driven by subscriptions to streaming services.”

But it's going to be interesting to see because it used to be, we looked at ratings, TV ratings.

Yeah, people says the NBA was underperforming versus everybody else.

Now, the next play, obviously, there's some pent-up demand there. But what really matters is the number of subscribers, peacock gets, ESPN gets, it's the rating. How is that? But it's more subscribers.

I mean, I literally had to subscribe to like. I think one or two more services.

“That's the whole point, right, and did you keep them as the question?”

Yeah, I'll keep them sure. I mean, they're, will they'll be churned? If there's churned, who knows what happens with valuations? If there's not, value wishes keep on going. Wow.

That's so crazy. Sorry, listen. There's your 45 minutes with Mark Cuban. The winner only. I'm doing all in.